July 25, 2023 • 40 mins
Ever felt trapped in your job, yearning for a change but too paralyzed by fear to make the leap? If you've nodded along, you're in for a treat. We're peeling back the curtain on the emotional whirlwind that accompanies career changes - the guilt, the fear, the juggling of financial stability against pursuing what sets your heart on fire.
Strap in as we traverse through the labyrinth of personal narratives detailing transitions from secure jobs to the thrilling yet unpredictable world of entrepreneurship. Our guest, a successful businessperson, illustrates the power of passion, courage, and community support in navigating these transitions. Get ready to hear the hard truths about the sacrifices and risks involved, but also be inspired by the potential rewards and fulfilment that await you on the other side.
As we wrap up this soul-stirring episode, we shine a spotlight on the crucial elements of staying motivated and preserving work-life balance. We also shed light on the role of a supportive community when making a career swap. So, if you're standing at the crossroads of your career, let this episode serve as your compass, guiding you towards the path of your dreams. Embark on this journey with us to discover the strength within you to make that audacious career move. You won't want to miss this rollercoaster ride!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey guys, you're listening to part two of today's
episode.
If you haven't listened to partone of this episode, we'd
strongly recommend you listenfrom the beginning of part one
to understand where ourconversation starts up.
When you're done with thisepisode, please feel free to
rate, review and subscribe onApple Podcast.
It's the easiest way to supportthis podcast.
Enjoy part two and we'll seeyou next week.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Most kids don't, would be my guess.
So, unless you want to, youspecifically want to be a doctor
or something and you just leanheavily into that.
But even even still so, pointbeing with this is there are
individuals out there who mayfeel stuck and don't know what
to do once they hit the age of30 or 40 or the midlife crisis
(00:41):
age, and now have created a life, or maybe habits, maybe
financial habits there's a termfor this and I can't remember
the term where, whatever yourwhatever, how much money you're
making, you develop a lifestylearound that and then maybe you
get more money, and then youdevelop a lifestyle around that
income and there's alwaysproblems that arise with that,
(01:01):
and one of them is what happenswhen that income stops or
changes or something.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
And now you have to support your lifestyle without
that income flow that youthought you had.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Exactly so.
On a tangent note, there arefinancial advisors who say don't
do that, and if you continue toget a raise or increase your
income, stick with the lifestylethat you have and that you know
, make the best of that.
Don't just keep getting the newcar or the new things that you
don't need All the word againthat I was thinking of before in
the previous podcast that Ican't think of, but tangible
(01:32):
items that you don't need.
So, anyway, we wanted to talkabout a little bit of our story.
So Brooke and I have twodifferent stories going on here,
whereas this may resonate withpeople who want to change
careers, or maybe who want toshift to their career, so kind
of a parallel shift or acomplete perpendicular shift
where you go a completelydifferent direction.
(01:53):
So some of you know, or may notknow, but I grew up a gigantic
weather nerd and I still.
I mean, I still am.
So I mean they literally havean Instagram channel called
wedding weather forecasts.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
So did you see my Instagram post on our thing that
was like is Chris?
Is Chris okay or something?
Did he survive?
And it was like wait for aweird weather.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
I lied so, yeah, I loved that that was the option.
So it was did he die?
And it was like, yeah, it justsaid something like yeah he gone
.
Yeah.
So if so, I went to school andI for meteorology.
It was all I wanted to do.
I was obsessed with it and Iwas really passionate.
I loved it enough.
So I still am exactly so I at ayoung age.
(02:38):
You know.
The example I was given is youknow fifth and sixth grade.
You learn about givingpresentations to the classroom
and you know you start doingthat, and my first topic was
weather, and then my next topicwas tornadoes, and then my next
topic was blizzards and theteacher eventually told me that
I have to pick something else.
So and it was hilarious yeah,exactly the face my parents made
(02:58):
.
They were not happy with herand they were like you're just
squashing his passion for this.
You know he's doing theassignment, but she made me pick
something else, so I have thepaper still and it was like Bill
Gates, like what's her name.
So so I went through time wentthrough life went to school,
(03:21):
went to college, did the thing,worked in a career that was
meteorological based for almosta decade and then something
happened and the photographything started coming into the
picture and I wasn't okay withthe job anymore.
And it was weird to admit that,because when you start thinking
(03:44):
that there's a lot of feelingsthat come around that that more
some people may not even expect,including guilt, you feel
guilty for feeling that way,because maybe your family helped
you get there.
So being unhappy with the joband the pay is you feel not
gracious.
There's a lot of words that cancome out of it to this.
(04:05):
So, but there's reallysomething important to talk
about with this, and it's the.
It's the concept and acceptanceof essentially, you can do
whatever you want and you, youreally can shift at any age, the
.
The ultimate decision andquestion for yourself is going
(04:25):
to be what are you willing tosacrifice to get there?
Because, yeah, if you've builta life around finances and maybe
you have a family, maybe you'vejust started a family, you've
got a mortgage, you knowthinking about shifting your
finances, which is usuallyalways the number one reason to
make a shift or a schedule basedif you've got a Monday to
Friday, the very stereotypicalAmerican nine to five, but that
(04:49):
works for you.
You know, how do you go aboutmaking a shift on a job that
maybe interests you that is moreweekend based?
How is your family going toreact to that, you know?
Is that possible?
So it's a lot of scary thoughtsand most people don't jump on
it.
And that's really sad becausewhat happens is they get stuck.
And when they get stuck andstart feeling stuck, then it
(05:13):
starts infiltrating every singlepart of your life, everything
it starts, your happiness goes,you know, it creeps in kind of
subconsciously and you becomebitter.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Well, it's a really good way to get burnout fast.
If you're not enjoying whatyou're doing anymore, you're
going to burn yourself out fromall ends of the candle and then,
you don't have time to offerfor you, for your family.
You don't have time anymore.
So it's almost like what is therisk that I'm willing to take
to do this?
But, on the other end, what amI willing to sacrifice in my
current situation if I keepdoing this thing, that I'm no
(05:46):
longer?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
passionate about Exactly At a minimum, when
you're talking about a career,how you're supporting yourself
and or your family.
Your minimum 40 hours a week.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
it's a lot of time.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
It's a lot of time to be unhappy doing something.
Now it comes down to what'simportant to you.
If you, if it's more importantto you to raise your family a
certain way and provide, thenthat's that's, that's your
justification, that's your butthat in the end, that trumps it
(06:21):
because it makes you happier.
All right, it's kind of thesame the theme here.
So you're willing to make thatsacrifice, to do that work, to
power through so that you canenjoy the times with your family
.
But if you are really unhappywith the work that you're doing
that much time, the conversationthat we want to have is how do
we start making that change?
And I hope to inspire a littlebit that it's.
(06:47):
It's possible from a from astraight up, perpendicular
perspective, meaning a rightangle shift, going from a
corporate cushy job thatprovided me with a good paycheck
and bonuses to a completeunknown into the
entrepreneurship world where Ihave no support from a W2 and I
(07:08):
have to get the money myself.
Now I have to do everything.
I have to do the marketing, Ihave to do the conversations, I
have to do the sales, I have todo the actual work, the actual
photography, the editing, thedelivery, client expectations,
gear.
All of those things now come tothe picture.
They were all provided to mebeforehand and now I have to
worry about them.
(07:28):
So why would I do that?
Why would I do that?
And it's because I had apassion that kicked into gear,
which was I enjoyed wanting tomake decisions for myself in my
career.
And I knew, because I enjoyedproject work and I thought that
I could do it.
Now I don't want to sound likea, like a this visionary martyr,
(07:54):
because, going into it, almosteverybody would go to guests,
including myself.
You don't believe that you cando it.
You don't think you can do itand you have a lot of doubt
throughout the process and youhave a lot of times where it
gets very difficult and when you, you know, potentially make
that jump to full time and youleave your career, you question
was it the right choice?
(08:14):
Because the income's not comingin?
What do you do?
How do you go about it, and soforth.
It's, it's a very challengingpath, but but there's I'm, I'm
absolutely 100%, and peoplecould call me too positive about
this on the train of, on thetrain of, if you want it, there
is a way to do it.
There's a way to do it, andthere are people who will
(08:36):
support you more than you thinkyou have to find them.
So I hope to be a presence of,especially as I get older,
somebody who can be that personto tell other people that if you
do, if you do want it, I wantto showcase to you that it is
possible, is absolutely possible.
The the, the end question willalways be what are you willing
(08:58):
to sacrifice to get there?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Well, and you're already doing that with lens and
light, you're literally alreadydoing that right now.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
It's?
It's, yes, it's a.
So the lens and light thatshe's referring to is a is a
photography workshop, communityand conference.
So we're in conference mode now.
We just finished the twoworkshops and we had multiple
photographers who were able tolean into the instructor side of
their business and go into thatpath.
And no matter what you do, whenyou lead something like this,
(09:30):
when you run it, it's a risk.
There's always a big riskinvolved, and some of those
risks are is it going to befinancially stable?
Can we actually profit off ofit?
And then what do we do withthose profits Going into it and
I'm being completely open andhonest here, going into this,
when we run these workshops, youknow we are not making profit.
This is strictly a.
This takes a lot of work and,in fact, I'm actually losing
(09:52):
money on this.
So why would I keep doing it?
And it's because I believe thatit can be done.
I believe that it actually canbe something that is sustainable
, that we can make profit.
And you need to make profitbecause it's not in a greedy way
, but so that it's something I'mworthy of spending my time on.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
So we have to pay your instructors and all of that
.
Like you, have to make a profit, no matter what.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Exactly and I do believe that it can be done.
So I feel like I'm going off ina tangent with this, but I want
to hear a little bit more.
So I've got like the baselineof my story on this and and the
the meteorological shift to froma meteorologist meteorology,
(10:37):
Say the word meteorology careerinto a full time wedding
photographer career.
I did make that jump.
It took an enormous amount ofwork and time and support from
Kelly and other people to helpme get there, but I think there
was a lot of people that thoughtit was either dumb or I
shouldn't do it, or when it,when it starts getting real, you
(10:57):
know that was maybe that was adumb jump, but it's absolutely
possible.
Now I've kind of talked a lot.
I've talked a lot about myselfin this realm.
I want to hear.
So without going into likesuper detail about my
perpendicular shift, I kind ofwant to hear about a little bit
of your story, bro, and when Iuse the words parallel shift
before and meaning it's insteadof a completely different career
(11:18):
, your job has, through time,adjusted through the different
niches, niches that you, thatyou, work on.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
My story is totally different than yours and I
thought, you know, when we cametogether for this podcast, I
thought it was like kind of acool thing that you made the
jump from your corporate job.
That was very secure and, ifI'm being totally honest, I've
never had that security in mylife like ever.
So basically, what I did was Ihad no idea I'm.
(11:51):
First of all, I want to saythat while I'm a huge advocate
for going to college and I thinkthat it does, it does hold its
benefits I'm also an advocatefor the people who know that
college isn't for them.
So I don't want it to soundlike I don't know, like I don't
want it to be like college.
You know, because there aresome people that colleges you're
(12:12):
not built for it, it's notbuilt for you, that the colleges
built in a way where it isbeneficial to a very specific
group of people.
And if you are not in thatgroup of people, there's nothing
wrong with you.
You don't have to go to college, you don't have to spend money.
And I think that that was whatI was trying to get up earlier
when I say isn't it crazy thatat 18, we're trying to figure
out what we want to do for therest of our lives, because to go
(12:36):
to college and to think thatyou have your life figured out
at 18 years old, you know, it'sjust.
It seems nutty in a way wheremost of us don't know.
Hold on, have you ever had doesToulouse ever do the thing where
he goes into like a really,really deep sleep?
And he looked like if you pickup his head, he looks like he's
dead?
Yes, yes, gremlin's doing thatright now.
(12:57):
And I, while you were talking,I was like lifting up his head,
trying to.
He's twitching.
It's okay, I know he's sleeping, but like, oh, hi, welcome back
.
Hey, he was like who me?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Okay, now I feel better because his eyes are open
.
Sometimes he really freaks meout with that.
I just want to say that youknow, as an 18 year old, if you
are feeling like it's hard foryou to try to figure out what
you're doing for the rest ofyour life, I would strongly
encourage you to do that.
I would strongly encourage youto take some time before you
choose a major and just jumpinto college, because it's only
beneficial if you're ready forit.
(13:31):
If you want me to be totallyhonest, it's only beneficial if
you have your eye on a veryspecific prize that most of us
at that point do not.
So, basically, what I did was Iwent to school for business
management.
I knew I wanted to do somethingin the business realm.
I didn't know what I wanted itto be.
I just knew that there wassomething in me that said
business is it.
And I think for the most part Iprobably got that encouragement
(13:54):
from my dad, because he was avery successful businessman and
I was like, no matter what Iwant to do, business is going to
help me out somewhere, you know.
So I went for businessmanagement and marketing and
then, after I was well, while Iwas in college, I was working
multiple jobs at a time and Iwould basically take on these
family sessions on the weekendsjust for an extra quick buck,
(14:18):
because I was just trying tofigure out how to make my rent.
I was an RA and then when I leftthe building I would go and
photograph families.
And then one day I basicallywas asked can you photograph a
wedding?
And I'm like I can.
I don't know if I should, but Ican and I took the leap and I
did it and it was so fun and Ifelt like when I tell my clients
(14:39):
I sign off almost every emailwith like it's been an honor and
a privilege to be a part ofyour story and like when I sign
off I truly mean that.
From the very first weddingthat I photographed, I literally
felt it was like the utmosthonor for me to be with them and
their families in that day.
It was so cool and it kind ofjust took off from there.
(15:00):
So when I graduated college Iwas like I've got a real good
thing going here, I've got apretty decent clientele base and
I went to school.
It's kind of funny me and Chriswent to school at Westconn
together Not together, but wewent on.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Basically, we just rediscovered last together
because Chris is an elder.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I was probably going in when you were going out.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
We talked about this.
What year did you go in?
Speaker 1 (15:29):
2011.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
So we were there together.
Okay, I graduated 2012.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Hey, all right, yeah, 2000.
Yeah, 2011, fall 2011 is when Istarted.
So, yeah, chris and I went toschool together.
When was Kelly there?
Same, okay, 2008, 2012 wow, weall want to school together.
We did without even knowing.
Weird it is kind of weird tothink we probably passed each
other in the same halls becausethe weather was on the same side
(15:55):
as the business side, right.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
The, yeah, the weather, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Science building, yeah, yeah so we definitely
passed each other in the hallsand my senior year.
I was always there, like that'sall I was, because all my end
courses were the obviously themeteorological related ones and
I had finished all my pre-rex soyeah, no, I I hate on West Khan
a lot, but it actually itreally helped me like a lot,
even in just the fact that I hada friend who went to West Khan
(16:20):
with me and he introduced me tochat.
So that's so weird yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
But anyway, both met our partners at West Khan.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Then that's well, so not well.
Actually, I did meet Chad, soduring the time period, though.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
during that time period, no, after I met him,
after I was out of college, butwhen I was an RA at Brookview.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Do you remember Brookview?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Absolutely, because the bus would always make a stop
there when I was at Alrightweird like Driveway thing that
it was.
They had to angle the bus toget out.
I always remember, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah, I was an RA there and we used to do like the
duty desk on Thursday nightsand I Remember Chad trying to
get into the building and I waslike you need your ID and he was
like I don't have my ID and Iwas like then you can't come in
the building and so I you knowhe's the one who's like super
drunk and partying and I'm likeSorry, you gotta go somewhere
else, buddy.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
And I was a.
You know I was a nice RA butyou know we our Brookview.
The cool thing was that the toptwo floors were well, it wasn't
like cool, it's kind ofannoying.
The top two floors were generalpublic, so where most RA's can
be super, super lenient and justbe like, yeah, whatever, let's
go party and whatever.
We actually had like generalpublic living above and like
doctors and stuff.
(17:34):
So if we got the complaintslike I could get fired.
It wasn't just like a normal RAsituation.
It was like I have to likeprotect the general public from
these rowdy kids.
So, but anyway, yeah, as soonas I graduated college, I was
like you know what, I'm gonnagive this a go.
It's now's a better time thanany, and I had my dad take me
(17:56):
down to the Middletown I Don'tknow the tax office or something
, and he helped me register mybusiness name and opened up my
business and do the thing, andit's been Quite a ride, it's.
I've been so lucky I I feellike my clients understand who I
am, as, like as a human, I feellike I've met some of the most
(18:18):
wonderful people.
And then, basically, that'swhat I've been doing since, and
the only change that I canreally talk about Is that I've
become way more niche than I wasbefore.
It wasn't that I was acceptingany and everything, but I.
There was a time where, yeah, Iwas.
I was working to pay my rent,and that was very obvious in the
(18:39):
jobs that I was taking.
I was just trying to get asmuch experience under my belt
with as many wet weddings aspossible.
And now and so funny I feellike my whole approach to
Photographing weddings andtaking on new clients has
changed exponentially just inthe fact that I'm I'm a little
bit more of a niche, a nichewedding photographer as far as
(19:01):
the intimate weddings.
I also have a little bit more oflike like a moody editing to
where you know, my editingprocess has changed throughout
my career.
I feel like for the most part,I've been pretty true to colors,
but I feel really confident andhappy with what I'm producing
right now because I havetransitioned into that niche
where Two years ago, if you weretalking to me on this podcast,
(19:23):
I would be like I am, I amrunning myself rampant and I was
happy doing it.
I was, you know, it's keepingme busy, but now I really feel
so Much more happy in theintention that I'm putting
behind everything that I'mphotographing sure that's
awesome.
Yeah you.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I love the the.
It's always the interestingstory for all photographers.
We all start with Photographingeverything and you take whatever
job you can, and I think that Ithink it's good to almost fall
back on that con.
Make sure to remember thatconcept exists because a lot of
I do know a lot of photographersthey niche down and If they hit
(20:02):
, let's say, the market changeswhatever and you're just not
getting back type of clientanymore and you're like, oh my
god, what do I do?
I'm not getting the money thatI need to Remember what you you
were capable of beforehand whenyou were like Thirsty to get
into this and you're gonna takeon anything you want to.
You can't open those doors backup again.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
It's possible.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
So, um, I Love that story.
That's good story.
That's thanks.
Yeah, I love that, and so thethe main concept here is we just
wanted to lean into making ashift, and I know that there are
people who feel stuck in beingable to figure out and
(20:44):
understand why they feel stuckis something beyond what we can
do.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
But no, there's a lot of different ways to feel stuck
to there is.
I have absolutely felt stuck inthis career In a price point
that I was no longer comfortablebeing in.
I felt stuck in my career, inthe the types of in almost
feeling bad, turning downclients because it wasn't a
client that I particularly feltlike my services would enhance
(21:09):
their day.
There are ways to be stuck in acareer that you love, and I
think it's about For the, forthe people who are in a career
and they're not looking to makethe actual career jump, but just
try to find a way to be happierwithin that.
That's possible too.
If you're in a, if you're in aposition, like Chris, where you
need to take the jump and leaninto something totally different
(21:30):
, it's a little bit hard, I meanit's definitely harder to do
just to take that full careerchange, but there are ways in
which that you could feel stuckin something that you're
genuinely happy doing and tryingto find a way to make it
Everything that you want it tobe and more again if, and if
there was a single, literally.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Well, I guess both of us should answer this.
I'll say if there was a singlepiece of advice to Understand
how to go up, what's the firstthing I need to do, what's the
most important part about makinga change?
You know, to do thissuccessfully without failing or
crashing, and it would be.
(22:11):
If I had to pick one singleitem, it would be find at least
one person who supports thatdecision and will motivate you
to keep going, because if youdon't, I mean no, without a
doubt, there will be people inyour life that will not support
(22:31):
and this.
Let me take a giant step back,big, wide lens here.
People in general areuncomfortable with change.
All of us, we are built likescientifically.
We are built to beuncomfortable for change because
our brain wants to keep us safe.
That's a trait, not a trait, aninstinct.
(22:54):
It's an instinct that we havefrom generations beforehand,
because when we've got oursystems in place and we're safe,
brain says, okay, keep doingstatus quo, because that means
we survive.
That is literally thescientific background of that.
So when we make changes and wefeel uncomfortable with whatever
it is in life, there's anactual ingrained reason.
(23:14):
But you want to be able to makethat change, because then you
leap forward into new bounds,new things, and your brain can
adjust to that and you grow At amore physical level.
That's how fitness works.
We should hire someone who cantalk more in depth about
(23:37):
physical fitness.
But I do know for a fact thatwhen you do the same exercise,
you plateau eventually on howmuch you're, either whether it's
muscle growth and you'relifting or cardio.
If you don't change the actualexercise, your body literally
adapts to be more efficient atit.
But more efficient means thatyou're not getting more results,
because if learning how to usethe least amount of whatever it
(24:01):
is to get there get to thatprocess.
So that's usually why, whenpeople are trying to lose weight
, in the beginning they loseweight really fast and then they
hit a wall and it's like,unless you change the exercise
or do something different, youhave to kind of shake your body
up.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Well, you always have to adjust, you always have to
adjust.
It's never.
Nothing will ever be stagnant.
You're doing.
Exactly what you need to bedoing right now is not going to
be the same as what you need tobe doing two years from now.
Whether it's your health,whether it's your job, it
doesn't matter.
You're always going to have tofind a way to adjust to your
circumstances.
Even if you feel like yourcareer is, you know, at a, at a
(24:35):
halt, even when I felt like Iwas taking on too much or the
you know the maybe not clientsthat I could like that my
services could cater to 100%,you still have to find a way to
be able to adjust yourself towhat you're doing.
And then that's the first stepI feel in Okay, now that I've
(24:57):
made my adjustments and I feelcomfortable in this spot again,
how you almost have to step out.
You almost have to step outinto the discomfort again.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yep, yep, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
And a lot of that is being ready.
Like I feel like throughoutphotographing anything, all the
things, all the things, all thethings, the one thing that like
people come back to is like andI don't know if you get this a
lot too it's like you're solucky and I'm like I really am.
I'm so, so, so, freaking lucky,and I'm not trying to say that,
(25:29):
but a lot of my luck was alsome being ready to say yes to
things and knowing what it tookto be able to do that.
Like you can't say yes toshooting a wedding if you don't
have the equipment.
But if you say yes to shootinga wedding, you better figure out
how you're going to get thatequipment to be able to do the
best job that you can.
So is it really?
Is it lucky beyond the point ofbeing asked to photograph?
(25:51):
Is that even luck?
Or is that somebody seeingsomething and going I really
love what this person is doing.
That's not really luck.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
To.
This is an excellent point thatI've recently adopted some good
language on this.
So instead of saying I'm solucky, what really we want to
say is I'm so grateful.
I am grateful that I get to dothis, but I'm both, you're both,
that's it Just own the luck.
There's, but no one.
When we're talking in the senseof I am a.
(26:24):
Well, we'll use Instagram as anexample.
I look at an account that has50,000 followers, who some
photographer, and they are onthere every day and they do
their, their lives and they'vegot 30, 40, 50 people in on that
and they're clearly gettingreally high end jobs.
It's very easy to sit back andgo like well must be nice.
That's always the phrase.
(26:44):
I hate that phrase.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Must be nice.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Must be nice to just make money and do that and it's
like so.
You have no idea whatsacrifices they made to get
there, and those sacrificesmight be time with their family
time with their partner Weekendson weekends gone, money spent,
things that you're not willingto give up, that you take for
granted because you don't knowwhat it's like to do that for
(27:08):
two years straight to do it'snever, never that easy to get to
those levels.
Or when you see, examples alwaysare when we talk about
celebrities and say, like well,it must be nice to be able to
afford three homes and do allthese things.
And it's like do you want to goon tour for a year and not see
(27:28):
anybody except your fans, whichare people you don't know?
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Also, do you realize how many times this person, or
how much of their, this person'schildhood was given to voice
lessons?
Acting lessons Like everything,everything that you do, is
going to come with some type ofa sacrifice.
So, making that I mean back towhat you said in the beginning,
making the leap.
You literally have to figureout how much of myself can, can
I give, what can I sacrifice tobe able to get me to where I
(27:55):
need to go.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yep, yeah, that's, that's, that's that, that's that
, that's that.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Yeah, the other thing that I was going to say is that
the you know luck is beingready and all of that and saying
yes to things that you I meanI've said yes to so many things
in the beginning of my careerthat I felt like I don't really
know, you know, like I'm notreally sure.
But once you accept and you sayyes and you're the yes person,
(28:25):
you figure out how.
I mean, it's just, it's justwhat you do when you're trying
to, when you sign a lease forrent.
Okay, now you have to figureout how, how do I make that
money?
How do I get there?
You sign for a new car.
All right, how do I afford thatcar payment?
How do I do this?
It's the same thing withstepping into a new role.
You know I would encouragepeople to do if you're thinking
about doing that, you, you findyour support system in your
(28:47):
friends and family and then,besides that, you move in
complete and utter silence untilthings are fully ready to go.
You know you're launching a newbusiness.
You don't really want to begiving Like.
I mean, we kind of did thiswith this podcast where we were
like we're going to do it.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Oh, we're going to do it.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
It took us like two years to actually just figure
this out, and even when we did,we're still having to redo
things that we thought we hadfigured out but we didn't post
much about it beforehand.
It was kind of like it's in theworks, there's stuff going on,
but if we had a deadline wewouldn't have hit that deadline.
No we would not.
No, we took two years to dothis.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
It took a long time.
It took a lot of practice.
It took a lot of you know twopeople in the room sitting
together recording and thengoing like, wow, that's what I
sound like.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
That's terrible, that's awful, yeah, wow, that
echo.
Ooh, our mouth sounds Just thetech issues alone.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Yeah, and so I mean that brings up the point of
we've heard this before, likewhy does this service cost so
much money when it could havetaken me 10 minutes in signal?
Because that 10 minutes took ayear to learn how to do in 10
minutes.
So it may look easy, but youdon't know how to do that.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
It's the concept of why is an electrician so
expensive, a plumber and it'slike can't, because that's a lot
of work and it's a lot of veryspecific things, but it is funny
that both of us have this like,almost like this attitude,
because I and I think sometimeswhen I do it, I'm a little
condescending when I'm talkingto my friends, and I don't mean
it to be.
I mean it to be like the mostuplifting as possible, where, if
(30:20):
somebody is complaining abouttheir job and I need to start
doing this thing, where I'm likeyou know, do you want feedback
or do you just want me to listen?
Like I need to start doing that, because most of the time when
somebody is complaining abouttheir job, I'm like, like I'll
take my mom for an example.
She is an amazing baker.
She's amazing.
She wants to open her ownbakery.
I've tried to have somebody doa logo for her.
(30:41):
I'm like we'll figure this out.
Let me help me, help you, totry to live your best life.
But in the same way, if she'snot ready, that's not something
that's ever going to besomething that she can fully
take on at that time she's stuckin a job, she's getting a
paycheck and right now that'swhat feels comfortable to her.
So stepping out of your comfortis something that, while I've
(31:03):
never had to do it, I feel likeI've always lived in discomfort
when it comes to this job,because everything has been
unknown.
You had the security of yourfirst job and so you knew where
your next paycheck was comingfrom.
Since I have become a literaladult, I have not known.
I mean, besides weddings thatyou book out a year in advance,
I don't really know when my nextpaycheck is coming because I
(31:26):
don't have a paycheck.
But I'm the first person totell people take the leap, you
can do it.
And it might sound so likebecause people look at me and
they're like, yeah, coming fromyou, look at you sitting at home
all day.
But to me I'm like, if you see,seeing people like you who have
done it, knowing that I did itstraight out of college, it can
(31:47):
be done.
You just have to figure out howmuch you're ready to sacrifice
to be able to do it.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
My mom right now is not yeah, she's not willing to
sacrifice, losing that security,and I totally understand it.
So I need to be a little bitmore in the background of like
when you're ready to do this, wecan do this.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yep, yeah, there's a lot of this.
There's always risk involved,but I would always go to say
that it's with calculated risk.
Your odds of success are waybetter, so you have.
That's where it's important tofind the people that'll help
motivate you when you're tiredand you don't want to do it and
you have no idea what to do.
So, especially if you are in thecreative industry we'll say
(32:24):
photographers or anything.
We are.
So there's so many people thatare so helpful there's.
It is such a good.
That's why I'm here.
That's why I'm here.
There are so many people inthis industry that love to share
their passion.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
So now you're sharing your passion and lens and light
, and that's that was one ofyour goals and that's what
you're doing.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
It's, yeah, it's, it's incredible stuff.
So I do I really do vibe withthe concept of the phrase which
we hear over and over.
But is true is the communityover competition?
Yes, it really is, there's.
There's enough people to goaround to make your business
successful.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Right.
And if you're one of thosepeople who feel like that's not
the case for you, I feel likeyou just haven't really met the
right community.
You know, I'm not part of like aquote unquote community to say
like I don't hang out with a tonof people, but I've met certain
people through this industrythat I know.
If I have a question I can goto them, if I have an issue I
can go to them.
I know that there are peoplewilling to help because for the
(33:20):
most part I feel like for themost part in at least this
industry, the photographyindustry most of us are like
empaths, most of us are empaths.
Most of us we understand and weresonate in a way where the
reason why we're able tophotograph your family and it's
truest light is because wereally understand and we try to
(33:41):
learn and we're listening.
And I feel like that's that's ahuman trait that photographers,
artists, creatives, they have,that they're, they're ready and
willing to listen and learn whenyou have an issue and not and
they're not so quick to push youaway and just shush you like
Scott get out of here.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
You know like yeah, no.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
when people message me and they have a question, I
try really hard to fulfill theanswer that they're looking for,
and if I can't, I usually willdirect them to somebody else who
can.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
That's it.
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
So if you're feeling like you need to take a jump you
know who to find to talk towe're, and if you are afraid of
what the answer is going to be.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
We're going to tell you to.
We're going to tell you to doit.
We're going to be too highpeople here but.
I know it is and it was.
It sounds fluffy to stay on theback end and be like you can do
it, which is what we're saying,but I really believe that to
find out your specific path andjourney, that's the work, that's
that's life.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Life is both too short and too long to be doing
stuff that you're miserabledoing.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
That's right.
There's only so many tripsaround the sun, so that's it
Sometimes.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
I see those things online.
I'm not even a mom, Like I'mnot even.
I don't even have kids, butsometimes I see those things
online.
It's like remember that youonly have 18 summers with your
children, and I was.
I'm like Jesus, what?
Yeah, it doesn't sound like alot, Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah, it is Nuts, or like holidays, things like that,
like the one that always killsme is the Santa one that's
always like, because there's avery small range in there.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
I know, I know I don't know, but okay.
Yeah, I don't really haveanything else to say on that.
If you, if you're feeling likeyou need a shift, you don't have
to be like completely I'm onlyprefaced this you should have
some things lined up.
That's you should.
(35:33):
You shouldn't just take theleap and quit your job if you
don't have anything lined up,but if you have the will, the
drive the community.
If you've been talking to peopleabout how can I do this, you
know if you've been listening tothings, reading things, trying
to figure it out, I know one ofthe biggest, one of the hardest
things for me to do throughoutthis entire process of owning my
own business is tax time.
(35:57):
It's things where, with anormal job, it comes with some
type of like direction.
Like you know, your taxes aretaken out.
You want to start a 401k whatare you doing?
You know, like these things inthe work culture, that will be
an easier life in corporate.
(36:19):
You know what I'm saying and Ithink that you can definitely
attest to that.
Like that is definitely it'seasier for you to stay on track
with your finances, your taxes.
Like doing normal societalthings.
The right way is easier whenyou have somebody looking over
your shoulder and I was we werejust talking about this last
night me and Chad, where I'm.
I tell him like I feel like a30 year old, 15 year old.
(36:40):
I'm still trying to figure out.
Like you know, I do this thingsometimes where, like I'll see
that he'll get a bill in themail and I'll go mine's coming
soon.
And then, if mine doesn't come,it's like oh.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Oh, no, he's having a dream.
I heard that.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
It's not like a water droplet, right.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
It actually sounded like a squeaky wheel.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
It's just there are benefits to both and we're not
telling you to quit yourcorporate job if you have
nothing lined up, if you'reunhappy with where you are and
you're exploring something else?
Speaker 2 (37:12):
No, definitely don't do that.
Don't quit your job.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Yes, However if you have a plan and you have the
support system and you feel likeyou will not be happy doing
this in one more year, start tofigure out your exit strategy.
Get an exit strategy going andkind of do almost like a
especially for like photography.
Do a soft launch where you'reoffering family sessions to your
(37:36):
friends and family and you cansay I'm only doing this, you
know, for a discounted priceright now.
I just want to make that veryclear that when I start my
business, prices will be whatthey will be you know, I
definitely did that with myfirst clients too.
They got one hell of a deal.
Most of my clients, honestly,have gotten one hell of a deal
because I was stuck in thatprice point for so long.
(37:58):
But you don't have to be.
I guess what the whole messageis.
You're not stuck.
You are a human that is on thisearth for a finite amount of
time, and life is both too shortand too long to be miserable in
a relationship, in a worksituation.
You can do it.
You just need to figure out thehealthiest, the easiest, the
smartest way to be doing it.
(38:18):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
All the above.
All the above, it's allpossible.
So if you ever basically, Ithink the theme of this is that
if you have imposter syndromeand you think you can't do it,
we can be your people to tellyou that you can do it.
So we know you can.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Also, isn't imposter syndrome such a bitch?
Imposter syndrome.
I don't know why I just said itlike that.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
It's a, yeah, it's a.
And then it happens to all ofus, inconsistently and when
we're even.
If I were to look back atmyself four years ago or let me
rephrase that, my four or fiveyear old, year old I can't talk
five, four years ago if I wereto look at myself now, I would
have been like oh my God, likeyou know, you did the thing.
(38:59):
You did the thing that youwanted to, but you still have
days where you're so narrowfocused that you're like I'm
failing at this and this andit's not going to work, and it's
wild to think that.
Which?
Speaker 1 (39:08):
is social media does that to us too, because I see
other people's work and I'm likeI don't do the thing of like I
wish I thought of that first,but like, in a little bit of a
way, it's like, oh, you know,like yeah, they just beat me to
that punch.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
What happens when you're surrounded by a main?
Stream concept where everyone'sshowing their happy stuff.
That's essentially what's goingto happen, because everybody
has bad days, so right, but youdon't see them on social.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
You see them on my social yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yeah, I'm going to start showing all my bad days.
Why?
Speaker 1 (39:37):
not who cares?
I'm not going to do that, I'mgoing to do that but.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
I'm going to do that Anyway that's all I got.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
So I hope you guys enjoyed this Disney podcast
slash motivational podcast.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
That's awesome, love it.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
But I will hang tight to hear what Kelly has to say
before we go.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah, I'll be, I will let you know.
I'll let her hear it out nextweek.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Perfect.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
All right.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
That's all I got.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
That's me too.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
So I'll probably talk to you not next Monday, but the
Monday after.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Sounds good.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
All right, deuces.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Bye.
Hey guys, you're listening to part two of today's
episode.
If you haven't listened to partone of this episode, we'd
strongly recommend you listenfrom the beginning of part one
to understand where ourconversation starts up.
When you're done with thisepisode, please feel free to
rate, review and subscribe onApple Podcast.
It's the easiest way to supportthis podcast.
Enjoy part two and we'll seeyou next week.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Most kids don't, would be my guess.
So, unless you want to, youspecifically want to be a doctor
or something and you just leanheavily into that.
But even even still so, pointbeing with this is there are
individuals out there who mayfeel stuck and don't know what
to do once they hit the age of30 or 40 or the midlife crisis
(00:41):
age, and now have created a life, or maybe habits, maybe
financial habits there's a termfor this and I can't remember
the term where, whatever yourwhatever, how much money you're
making, you develop a lifestylearound that and then maybe you
get more money, and then youdevelop a lifestyle around that
income and there's alwaysproblems that arise with that,
(01:01):
and one of them is what happenswhen that income stops or
changes or something.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
And now you have to support your lifestyle without
that income flow that youthought you had.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Exactly so.
On a tangent note, there arefinancial advisors who say don't
do that, and if you continue toget a raise or increase your
income, stick with the lifestylethat you have and that you know
, make the best of that.
Don't just keep getting the newcar or the new things that you
don't need All the word againthat I was thinking of before in
the previous podcast that Ican't think of, but tangible
(01:32):
items that you don't need.
So, anyway, we wanted to talkabout a little bit of our story.
So Brooke and I have twodifferent stories going on here,
whereas this may resonate withpeople who want to change
careers, or maybe who want toshift to their career, so kind
of a parallel shift or acomplete perpendicular shift
where you go a completelydifferent direction.
(01:53):
So some of you know, or may notknow, but I grew up a gigantic
weather nerd and I still.
I mean, I still am.
So I mean they literally havean Instagram channel called
wedding weather forecasts.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
So did you see my Instagram post on our thing that
was like is Chris?
Is Chris okay or something?
Did he survive?
And it was like wait for aweird weather.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
I lied so, yeah, I loved that that was the option.
So it was did he die?
And it was like, yeah, it justsaid something like yeah he gone
.
Yeah.
So if so, I went to school andI for meteorology.
It was all I wanted to do.
I was obsessed with it and Iwas really passionate.
I loved it enough.
So I still am exactly so I at ayoung age.
(02:38):
You know.
The example I was given is youknow fifth and sixth grade.
You learn about givingpresentations to the classroom
and you know you start doingthat, and my first topic was
weather, and then my next topicwas tornadoes, and then my next
topic was blizzards and theteacher eventually told me that
I have to pick something else.
So and it was hilarious yeah,exactly the face my parents made
(02:58):
.
They were not happy with herand they were like you're just
squashing his passion for this.
You know he's doing theassignment, but she made me pick
something else, so I have thepaper still and it was like Bill
Gates, like what's her name.
So so I went through time wentthrough life went to school,
(03:21):
went to college, did the thing,worked in a career that was
meteorological based for almosta decade and then something
happened and the photographything started coming into the
picture and I wasn't okay withthe job anymore.
And it was weird to admit that,because when you start thinking
(03:44):
that there's a lot of feelingsthat come around that that more
some people may not even expect,including guilt, you feel
guilty for feeling that way,because maybe your family helped
you get there.
So being unhappy with the joband the pay is you feel not
gracious.
There's a lot of words that cancome out of it to this.
(04:05):
So, but there's reallysomething important to talk
about with this, and it's the.
It's the concept and acceptanceof essentially, you can do
whatever you want and you, youreally can shift at any age, the
.
The ultimate decision andquestion for yourself is going
(04:25):
to be what are you willing tosacrifice to get there?
Because, yeah, if you've builta life around finances and maybe
you have a family, maybe you'vejust started a family, you've
got a mortgage, you knowthinking about shifting your
finances, which is usuallyalways the number one reason to
make a shift or a schedule basedif you've got a Monday to
Friday, the very stereotypicalAmerican nine to five, but that
(04:49):
works for you.
You know, how do you go aboutmaking a shift on a job that
maybe interests you that is moreweekend based?
How is your family going toreact to that, you know?
Is that possible?
So it's a lot of scary thoughtsand most people don't jump on
it.
And that's really sad becausewhat happens is they get stuck.
And when they get stuck andstart feeling stuck, then it
(05:13):
starts infiltrating every singlepart of your life, everything
it starts, your happiness goes,you know, it creeps in kind of
subconsciously and you becomebitter.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Well, it's a really good way to get burnout fast.
If you're not enjoying whatyou're doing anymore, you're
going to burn yourself out fromall ends of the candle and then,
you don't have time to offerfor you, for your family.
You don't have time anymore.
So it's almost like what is therisk that I'm willing to take
to do this?
But, on the other end, what amI willing to sacrifice in my
current situation if I keepdoing this thing, that I'm no
(05:46):
longer?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
passionate about Exactly At a minimum, when
you're talking about a career,how you're supporting yourself
and or your family.
Your minimum 40 hours a week.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
it's a lot of time.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
It's a lot of time to be unhappy doing something.
Now it comes down to what'simportant to you.
If you, if it's more importantto you to raise your family a
certain way and provide, thenthat's that's, that's your
justification, that's your butthat in the end, that trumps it
(06:21):
because it makes you happier.
All right, it's kind of thesame the theme here.
So you're willing to make thatsacrifice, to do that work, to
power through so that you canenjoy the times with your family
.
But if you are really unhappywith the work that you're doing
that much time, the conversationthat we want to have is how do
we start making that change?
And I hope to inspire a littlebit that it's.
(06:47):
It's possible from a from astraight up, perpendicular
perspective, meaning a rightangle shift, going from a
corporate cushy job thatprovided me with a good paycheck
and bonuses to a completeunknown into the
entrepreneurship world where Ihave no support from a W2 and I
(07:08):
have to get the money myself.
Now I have to do everything.
I have to do the marketing, Ihave to do the conversations, I
have to do the sales, I have todo the actual work, the actual
photography, the editing, thedelivery, client expectations,
gear.
All of those things now come tothe picture.
They were all provided to mebeforehand and now I have to
worry about them.
(07:28):
So why would I do that?
Why would I do that?
And it's because I had apassion that kicked into gear,
which was I enjoyed wanting tomake decisions for myself in my
career.
And I knew, because I enjoyedproject work and I thought that
I could do it.
Now I don't want to sound likea, like a this visionary martyr,
(07:54):
because, going into it, almosteverybody would go to guests,
including myself.
You don't believe that you cando it.
You don't think you can do itand you have a lot of doubt
throughout the process and youhave a lot of times where it
gets very difficult and when you, you know, potentially make
that jump to full time and youleave your career, you question
was it the right choice?
(08:14):
Because the income's not comingin?
What do you do?
How do you go about it, and soforth.
It's, it's a very challengingpath, but but there's I'm, I'm
absolutely 100%, and peoplecould call me too positive about
this on the train of, on thetrain of, if you want it, there
is a way to do it.
There's a way to do it, andthere are people who will
(08:36):
support you more than you thinkyou have to find them.
So I hope to be a presence of,especially as I get older,
somebody who can be that personto tell other people that if you
do, if you do want it, I wantto showcase to you that it is
possible, is absolutely possible.
The the, the end question willalways be what are you willing
(08:58):
to sacrifice to get there?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Well, and you're already doing that with lens and
light, you're literally alreadydoing that right now.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
It's?
It's, yes, it's a.
So the lens and light thatshe's referring to is a is a
photography workshop, communityand conference.
So we're in conference mode now.
We just finished the twoworkshops and we had multiple
photographers who were able tolean into the instructor side of
their business and go into thatpath.
And no matter what you do, whenyou lead something like this,
(09:30):
when you run it, it's a risk.
There's always a big riskinvolved, and some of those
risks are is it going to befinancially stable?
Can we actually profit off ofit?
And then what do we do withthose profits Going into it and
I'm being completely open andhonest here, going into this,
when we run these workshops, youknow we are not making profit.
This is strictly a.
This takes a lot of work and,in fact, I'm actually losing
(09:52):
money on this.
So why would I keep doing it?
And it's because I believe thatit can be done.
I believe that it actually canbe something that is sustainable
, that we can make profit.
And you need to make profitbecause it's not in a greedy way
, but so that it's something I'mworthy of spending my time on.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
So we have to pay your instructors and all of that
.
Like you, have to make a profit, no matter what.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Exactly and I do believe that it can be done.
So I feel like I'm going off ina tangent with this, but I want
to hear a little bit more.
So I've got like the baselineof my story on this and and the
the meteorological shift to froma meteorologist meteorology,
(10:37):
Say the word meteorology careerinto a full time wedding
photographer career.
I did make that jump.
It took an enormous amount ofwork and time and support from
Kelly and other people to helpme get there, but I think there
was a lot of people that thoughtit was either dumb or I
shouldn't do it, or when it,when it starts getting real, you
(10:57):
know that was maybe that was adumb jump, but it's absolutely
possible.
Now I've kind of talked a lot.
I've talked a lot about myselfin this realm.
I want to hear.
So without going into likesuper detail about my
perpendicular shift, I kind ofwant to hear about a little bit
of your story, bro, and when Iuse the words parallel shift
before and meaning it's insteadof a completely different career
(11:18):
, your job has, through time,adjusted through the different
niches, niches that you, thatyou, work on.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
My story is totally different than yours and I
thought, you know, when we cametogether for this podcast, I
thought it was like kind of acool thing that you made the
jump from your corporate job.
That was very secure and, ifI'm being totally honest, I've
never had that security in mylife like ever.
So basically, what I did was Ihad no idea I'm.
(11:51):
First of all, I want to saythat while I'm a huge advocate
for going to college and I thinkthat it does, it does hold its
benefits I'm also an advocatefor the people who know that
college isn't for them.
So I don't want it to soundlike I don't know, like I don't
want it to be like college.
You know, because there aresome people that colleges you're
(12:12):
not built for it, it's notbuilt for you, that the colleges
built in a way where it isbeneficial to a very specific
group of people.
And if you are not in thatgroup of people, there's nothing
wrong with you.
You don't have to go to college, you don't have to spend money.
And I think that that was whatI was trying to get up earlier
when I say isn't it crazy thatat 18, we're trying to figure
out what we want to do for therest of our lives, because to go
(12:36):
to college and to think thatyou have your life figured out
at 18 years old, you know, it'sjust.
It seems nutty in a way wheremost of us don't know.
Hold on, have you ever had doesToulouse ever do the thing where
he goes into like a really,really deep sleep?
And he looked like if you pickup his head, he looks like he's
dead?
Yes, yes, gremlin's doing thatright now.
(12:57):
And I, while you were talking,I was like lifting up his head,
trying to.
He's twitching.
It's okay, I know he's sleeping, but like, oh, hi, welcome back
.
Hey, he was like who me?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Okay, now I feel better because his eyes are open
.
Sometimes he really freaks meout with that.
I just want to say that youknow, as an 18 year old, if you
are feeling like it's hard foryou to try to figure out what
you're doing for the rest ofyour life, I would strongly
encourage you to do that.
I would strongly encourage youto take some time before you
choose a major and just jumpinto college, because it's only
beneficial if you're ready forit.
(13:31):
If you want me to be totallyhonest, it's only beneficial if
you have your eye on a veryspecific prize that most of us
at that point do not.
So, basically, what I did was Iwent to school for business
management.
I knew I wanted to do somethingin the business realm.
I didn't know what I wanted itto be.
I just knew that there wassomething in me that said
business is it.
And I think for the most part Iprobably got that encouragement
(13:54):
from my dad, because he was avery successful businessman and
I was like, no matter what Iwant to do, business is going to
help me out somewhere, you know.
So I went for businessmanagement and marketing and
then, after I was well, while Iwas in college, I was working
multiple jobs at a time and Iwould basically take on these
family sessions on the weekendsjust for an extra quick buck,
(14:18):
because I was just trying tofigure out how to make my rent.
I was an RA and then when I leftthe building I would go and
photograph families.
And then one day I basicallywas asked can you photograph a
wedding?
And I'm like I can.
I don't know if I should, but Ican and I took the leap and I
did it and it was so fun and Ifelt like when I tell my clients
(14:39):
I sign off almost every emailwith like it's been an honor and
a privilege to be a part ofyour story and like when I sign
off I truly mean that.
From the very first weddingthat I photographed, I literally
felt it was like the utmosthonor for me to be with them and
their families in that day.
It was so cool and it kind ofjust took off from there.
(15:00):
So when I graduated college Iwas like I've got a real good
thing going here, I've got apretty decent clientele base and
I went to school.
It's kind of funny me and Chriswent to school at Westconn
together Not together, but wewent on.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Basically, we just rediscovered last together
because Chris is an elder.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I was probably going in when you were going out.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
We talked about this.
What year did you go in?
Speaker 1 (15:29):
2011.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
So we were there together.
Okay, I graduated 2012.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Hey, all right, yeah, 2000.
Yeah, 2011, fall 2011 is when Istarted.
So, yeah, chris and I went toschool together.
When was Kelly there?
Same, okay, 2008, 2012 wow, weall want to school together.
We did without even knowing.
Weird it is kind of weird tothink we probably passed each
other in the same halls becausethe weather was on the same side
(15:55):
as the business side, right.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
The, yeah, the weather, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Science building, yeah, yeah so we definitely
passed each other in the hallsand my senior year.
I was always there, like that'sall I was, because all my end
courses were the obviously themeteorological related ones and
I had finished all my pre-rex soyeah, no, I I hate on West Khan
a lot, but it actually itreally helped me like a lot,
even in just the fact that I hada friend who went to West Khan
(16:20):
with me and he introduced me tochat.
So that's so weird yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
But anyway, both met our partners at West Khan.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Then that's well, so not well.
Actually, I did meet Chad, soduring the time period, though.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
during that time period, no, after I met him,
after I was out of college, butwhen I was an RA at Brookview.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Do you remember Brookview?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Absolutely, because the bus would always make a stop
there when I was at Alrightweird like Driveway thing that
it was.
They had to angle the bus toget out.
I always remember, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah, I was an RA there and we used to do like the
duty desk on Thursday nightsand I Remember Chad trying to
get into the building and I waslike you need your ID and he was
like I don't have my ID and Iwas like then you can't come in
the building and so I you knowhe's the one who's like super
drunk and partying and I'm likeSorry, you gotta go somewhere
else, buddy.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
And I was a.
You know I was a nice RA butyou know we our Brookview.
The cool thing was that the toptwo floors were well, it wasn't
like cool, it's kind ofannoying.
The top two floors were generalpublic, so where most RA's can
be super, super lenient and justbe like, yeah, whatever, let's
go party and whatever.
We actually had like generalpublic living above and like
doctors and stuff.
(17:34):
So if we got the complaintslike I could get fired.
It wasn't just like a normal RAsituation.
It was like I have to likeprotect the general public from
these rowdy kids.
So, but anyway, yeah, as soonas I graduated college, I was
like you know what, I'm gonnagive this a go.
It's now's a better time thanany, and I had my dad take me
(17:56):
down to the Middletown I Don'tknow the tax office or something
, and he helped me register mybusiness name and opened up my
business and do the thing, andit's been Quite a ride, it's.
I've been so lucky I I feellike my clients understand who I
am, as, like as a human, I feellike I've met some of the most
(18:18):
wonderful people.
And then, basically, that'swhat I've been doing since, and
the only change that I canreally talk about Is that I've
become way more niche than I wasbefore.
It wasn't that I was acceptingany and everything, but I.
There was a time where, yeah, Iwas.
I was working to pay my rent,and that was very obvious in the
(18:39):
jobs that I was taking.
I was just trying to get asmuch experience under my belt
with as many wet weddings aspossible.
And now and so funny I feellike my whole approach to
Photographing weddings andtaking on new clients has
changed exponentially just inthe fact that I'm I'm a little
bit more of a niche, a nichewedding photographer as far as
(19:01):
the intimate weddings.
I also have a little bit more oflike like a moody editing to
where you know, my editingprocess has changed throughout
my career.
I feel like for the most part,I've been pretty true to colors,
but I feel really confident andhappy with what I'm producing
right now because I havetransitioned into that niche
where Two years ago, if you weretalking to me on this podcast,
(19:23):
I would be like I am, I amrunning myself rampant and I was
happy doing it.
I was, you know, it's keepingme busy, but now I really feel
so Much more happy in theintention that I'm putting
behind everything that I'mphotographing sure that's
awesome.
Yeah you.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I love the the.
It's always the interestingstory for all photographers.
We all start with Photographingeverything and you take whatever
job you can, and I think that Ithink it's good to almost fall
back on that con.
Make sure to remember thatconcept exists because a lot of
I do know a lot of photographersthey niche down and If they hit
(20:02):
, let's say, the market changeswhatever and you're just not
getting back type of clientanymore and you're like, oh my
god, what do I do?
I'm not getting the money thatI need to Remember what you you
were capable of beforehand whenyou were like Thirsty to get
into this and you're gonna takeon anything you want to.
You can't open those doors backup again.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
It's possible.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
So, um, I Love that story.
That's good story.
That's thanks.
Yeah, I love that, and so thethe main concept here is we just
wanted to lean into making ashift, and I know that there are
people who feel stuck in beingable to figure out and
(20:44):
understand why they feel stuckis something beyond what we can
do.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
But no, there's a lot of different ways to feel stuck
to there is.
I have absolutely felt stuck inthis career In a price point
that I was no longer comfortablebeing in.
I felt stuck in my career, inthe the types of in almost
feeling bad, turning downclients because it wasn't a
client that I particularly feltlike my services would enhance
(21:09):
their day.
There are ways to be stuck in acareer that you love, and I
think it's about For the, forthe people who are in a career
and they're not looking to makethe actual career jump, but just
try to find a way to be happierwithin that.
That's possible too.
If you're in a, if you're in aposition, like Chris, where you
need to take the jump and leaninto something totally different
(21:30):
, it's a little bit hard, I meanit's definitely harder to do
just to take that full careerchange, but there are ways in
which that you could feel stuckin something that you're
genuinely happy doing and tryingto find a way to make it
Everything that you want it tobe and more again if, and if
there was a single, literally.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Well, I guess both of us should answer this.
I'll say if there was a singlepiece of advice to Understand
how to go up, what's the firstthing I need to do, what's the
most important part about makinga change?
You know, to do thissuccessfully without failing or
crashing, and it would be.
(22:11):
If I had to pick one singleitem, it would be find at least
one person who supports thatdecision and will motivate you
to keep going, because if youdon't, I mean no, without a
doubt, there will be people inyour life that will not support
(22:31):
and this.
Let me take a giant step back,big, wide lens here.
People in general areuncomfortable with change.
All of us, we are built likescientifically.
We are built to beuncomfortable for change because
our brain wants to keep us safe.
That's a trait, not a trait, aninstinct.
(22:54):
It's an instinct that we havefrom generations beforehand,
because when we've got oursystems in place and we're safe,
brain says, okay, keep doingstatus quo, because that means
we survive.
That is literally thescientific background of that.
So when we make changes and wefeel uncomfortable with whatever
it is in life, there's anactual ingrained reason.
(23:14):
But you want to be able to makethat change, because then you
leap forward into new bounds,new things, and your brain can
adjust to that and you grow At amore physical level.
That's how fitness works.
We should hire someone who cantalk more in depth about
(23:37):
physical fitness.
But I do know for a fact thatwhen you do the same exercise,
you plateau eventually on howmuch you're, either whether it's
muscle growth and you'relifting or cardio.
If you don't change the actualexercise, your body literally
adapts to be more efficient atit.
But more efficient means thatyou're not getting more results,
because if learning how to usethe least amount of whatever it
(24:01):
is to get there get to thatprocess.
So that's usually why, whenpeople are trying to lose weight
, in the beginning they loseweight really fast and then they
hit a wall and it's like,unless you change the exercise
or do something different, youhave to kind of shake your body
up.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Well, you always have to adjust, you always have to
adjust.
It's never.
Nothing will ever be stagnant.
You're doing.
Exactly what you need to bedoing right now is not going to
be the same as what you need tobe doing two years from now.
Whether it's your health,whether it's your job, it
doesn't matter.
You're always going to have tofind a way to adjust to your
circumstances.
Even if you feel like yourcareer is, you know, at a, at a
(24:35):
halt, even when I felt like Iwas taking on too much or the
you know the maybe not clientsthat I could like that my
services could cater to 100%,you still have to find a way to
be able to adjust yourself towhat you're doing.
And then that's the first stepI feel in Okay, now that I've
(24:57):
made my adjustments and I feelcomfortable in this spot again,
how you almost have to step out.
You almost have to step outinto the discomfort again.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yep, yep, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
And a lot of that is being ready.
Like I feel like throughoutphotographing anything, all the
things, all the things, all thethings, the one thing that like
people come back to is like andI don't know if you get this a
lot too it's like you're solucky and I'm like I really am.
I'm so, so, so, freaking lucky,and I'm not trying to say that,
(25:29):
but a lot of my luck was alsome being ready to say yes to
things and knowing what it tookto be able to do that.
Like you can't say yes toshooting a wedding if you don't
have the equipment.
But if you say yes to shootinga wedding, you better figure out
how you're going to get thatequipment to be able to do the
best job that you can.
So is it really?
Is it lucky beyond the point ofbeing asked to photograph?
(25:51):
Is that even luck?
Or is that somebody seeingsomething and going I really
love what this person is doing.
That's not really luck.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
To.
This is an excellent point thatI've recently adopted some good
language on this.
So instead of saying I'm solucky, what really we want to
say is I'm so grateful.
I am grateful that I get to dothis, but I'm both, you're both,
that's it Just own the luck.
There's, but no one.
When we're talking in the senseof I am a.
(26:24):
Well, we'll use Instagram as anexample.
I look at an account that has50,000 followers, who some
photographer, and they are onthere every day and they do
their, their lives and they'vegot 30, 40, 50 people in on that
and they're clearly gettingreally high end jobs.
It's very easy to sit back andgo like well must be nice.
That's always the phrase.
(26:44):
I hate that phrase.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Must be nice.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Must be nice to just make money and do that and it's
like so.
You have no idea whatsacrifices they made to get
there, and those sacrificesmight be time with their family
time with their partner Weekendson weekends gone, money spent,
things that you're not willingto give up, that you take for
granted because you don't knowwhat it's like to do that for
(27:08):
two years straight to do it'snever, never that easy to get to
those levels.
Or when you see, examples alwaysare when we talk about
celebrities and say, like well,it must be nice to be able to
afford three homes and do allthese things.
And it's like do you want to goon tour for a year and not see
(27:28):
anybody except your fans, whichare people you don't know?
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Also, do you realize how many times this person, or
how much of their, this person'schildhood was given to voice
lessons?
Acting lessons Like everything,everything that you do, is
going to come with some type ofa sacrifice.
So, making that I mean back towhat you said in the beginning,
making the leap.
You literally have to figureout how much of myself can, can
I give, what can I sacrifice tobe able to get me to where I
(27:55):
need to go.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yep, yeah, that's, that's, that's that, that's that
, that's that.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Yeah, the other thing that I was going to say is that
the you know luck is beingready and all of that and saying
yes to things that you I meanI've said yes to so many things
in the beginning of my careerthat I felt like I don't really
know, you know, like I'm notreally sure.
But once you accept and you sayyes and you're the yes person,
(28:25):
you figure out how.
I mean, it's just, it's justwhat you do when you're trying
to, when you sign a lease forrent.
Okay, now you have to figureout how, how do I make that
money?
How do I get there?
You sign for a new car.
All right, how do I afford thatcar payment?
How do I do this?
It's the same thing withstepping into a new role.
You know I would encouragepeople to do if you're thinking
about doing that, you, you findyour support system in your
(28:47):
friends and family and then,besides that, you move in
complete and utter silence untilthings are fully ready to go.
You know you're launching a newbusiness.
You don't really want to begiving Like.
I mean, we kind of did thiswith this podcast where we were
like we're going to do it.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Oh, we're going to do it.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
It took us like two years to actually just figure
this out, and even when we did,we're still having to redo
things that we thought we hadfigured out but we didn't post
much about it beforehand.
It was kind of like it's in theworks, there's stuff going on,
but if we had a deadline wewouldn't have hit that deadline.
No we would not.
No, we took two years to dothis.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
It took a long time.
It took a lot of practice.
It took a lot of you know twopeople in the room sitting
together recording and thengoing like, wow, that's what I
sound like.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
That's terrible, that's awful, yeah, wow, that
echo.
Ooh, our mouth sounds Just thetech issues alone.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Yeah, and so I mean that brings up the point of
we've heard this before, likewhy does this service cost so
much money when it could havetaken me 10 minutes in signal?
Because that 10 minutes took ayear to learn how to do in 10
minutes.
So it may look easy, but youdon't know how to do that.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
It's the concept of why is an electrician so
expensive, a plumber and it'slike can't, because that's a lot
of work and it's a lot of veryspecific things, but it is funny
that both of us have this like,almost like this attitude,
because I and I think sometimeswhen I do it, I'm a little
condescending when I'm talkingto my friends, and I don't mean
it to be.
I mean it to be like the mostuplifting as possible, where, if
(30:20):
somebody is complaining abouttheir job and I need to start
doing this thing, where I'm likeyou know, do you want feedback
or do you just want me to listen?
Like I need to start doing that, because most of the time when
somebody is complaining abouttheir job, I'm like, like I'll
take my mom for an example.
She is an amazing baker.
She's amazing.
She wants to open her ownbakery.
I've tried to have somebody doa logo for her.
(30:41):
I'm like we'll figure this out.
Let me help me, help you, totry to live your best life.
But in the same way, if she'snot ready, that's not something
that's ever going to besomething that she can fully
take on at that time she's stuckin a job, she's getting a
paycheck and right now that'swhat feels comfortable to her.
So stepping out of your comfortis something that, while I've
(31:03):
never had to do it, I feel likeI've always lived in discomfort
when it comes to this job,because everything has been
unknown.
You had the security of yourfirst job and so you knew where
your next paycheck was comingfrom.
Since I have become a literaladult, I have not known.
I mean, besides weddings thatyou book out a year in advance,
I don't really know when my nextpaycheck is coming because I
(31:26):
don't have a paycheck.
But I'm the first person totell people take the leap, you
can do it.
And it might sound so likebecause people look at me and
they're like, yeah, coming fromyou, look at you sitting at home
all day.
But to me I'm like, if you see,seeing people like you who have
done it, knowing that I did itstraight out of college, it can
(31:47):
be done.
You just have to figure out howmuch you're ready to sacrifice
to be able to do it.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
My mom right now is not yeah, she's not willing to
sacrifice, losing that security,and I totally understand it.
So I need to be a little bitmore in the background of like
when you're ready to do this, wecan do this.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yep, yeah, there's a lot of this.
There's always risk involved,but I would always go to say
that it's with calculated risk.
Your odds of success are waybetter, so you have.
That's where it's important tofind the people that'll help
motivate you when you're tiredand you don't want to do it and
you have no idea what to do.
So, especially if you are in thecreative industry we'll say
(32:24):
photographers or anything.
We are.
So there's so many people thatare so helpful there's.
It is such a good.
That's why I'm here.
That's why I'm here.
There are so many people inthis industry that love to share
their passion.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
So now you're sharing your passion and lens and light
, and that's that was one ofyour goals and that's what
you're doing.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
It's, yeah, it's, it's incredible stuff.
So I do I really do vibe withthe concept of the phrase which
we hear over and over.
But is true is the communityover competition?
Yes, it really is, there's.
There's enough people to goaround to make your business
successful.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Right.
And if you're one of thosepeople who feel like that's not
the case for you, I feel likeyou just haven't really met the
right community.
You know, I'm not part of like aquote unquote community to say
like I don't hang out with a tonof people, but I've met certain
people through this industrythat I know.
If I have a question I can goto them, if I have an issue I
can go to them.
I know that there are peoplewilling to help because for the
(33:20):
most part I feel like for themost part in at least this
industry, the photographyindustry most of us are like
empaths, most of us are empaths.
Most of us we understand and weresonate in a way where the
reason why we're able tophotograph your family and it's
truest light is because wereally understand and we try to
(33:41):
learn and we're listening.
And I feel like that's that's ahuman trait that photographers,
artists, creatives, they have,that they're, they're ready and
willing to listen and learn whenyou have an issue and not and
they're not so quick to push youaway and just shush you like
Scott get out of here.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
You know like yeah, no.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
when people message me and they have a question, I
try really hard to fulfill theanswer that they're looking for,
and if I can't, I usually willdirect them to somebody else who
can.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
That's it.
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
So if you're feeling like you need to take a jump you
know who to find to talk towe're, and if you are afraid of
what the answer is going to be.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
We're going to tell you to.
We're going to tell you to doit.
We're going to be too highpeople here but.
I know it is and it was.
It sounds fluffy to stay on theback end and be like you can do
it, which is what we're saying,but I really believe that to
find out your specific path andjourney, that's the work, that's
that's life.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Life is both too short and too long to be doing
stuff that you're miserabledoing.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
That's right.
There's only so many tripsaround the sun, so that's it
Sometimes.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
I see those things online.
I'm not even a mom, Like I'mnot even.
I don't even have kids, butsometimes I see those things
online.
It's like remember that youonly have 18 summers with your
children, and I was.
I'm like Jesus, what?
Yeah, it doesn't sound like alot, Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah, it is Nuts, or like holidays, things like that,
like the one that always killsme is the Santa one that's
always like, because there's avery small range in there.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
I know, I know I don't know, but okay.
Yeah, I don't really haveanything else to say on that.
If you, if you're feeling likeyou need a shift, you don't have
to be like completely I'm onlyprefaced this you should have
some things lined up.
That's you should.
(35:33):
You shouldn't just take theleap and quit your job if you
don't have anything lined up,but if you have the will, the
drive the community.
If you've been talking to peopleabout how can I do this, you
know if you've been listening tothings, reading things, trying
to figure it out, I know one ofthe biggest, one of the hardest
things for me to do throughoutthis entire process of owning my
own business is tax time.
(35:57):
It's things where, with anormal job, it comes with some
type of like direction.
Like you know, your taxes aretaken out.
You want to start a 401k whatare you doing?
You know, like these things inthe work culture, that will be
an easier life in corporate.
(36:19):
You know what I'm saying and Ithink that you can definitely
attest to that.
Like that is definitely it'seasier for you to stay on track
with your finances, your taxes.
Like doing normal societalthings.
The right way is easier whenyou have somebody looking over
your shoulder and I was we werejust talking about this last
night me and Chad, where I'm.
I tell him like I feel like a30 year old, 15 year old.
(36:40):
I'm still trying to figure out.
Like you know, I do this thingsometimes where, like I'll see
that he'll get a bill in themail and I'll go mine's coming
soon.
And then, if mine doesn't come,it's like oh.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Oh, no, he's having a dream.
I heard that.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
It's not like a water droplet, right.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
It actually sounded like a squeaky wheel.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
It's just there are benefits to both and we're not
telling you to quit yourcorporate job if you have
nothing lined up, if you'reunhappy with where you are and
you're exploring something else?
Speaker 2 (37:12):
No, definitely don't do that.
Don't quit your job.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Yes, However if you have a plan and you have the
support system and you feel likeyou will not be happy doing
this in one more year, start tofigure out your exit strategy.
Get an exit strategy going andkind of do almost like a
especially for like photography.
Do a soft launch where you'reoffering family sessions to your
(37:36):
friends and family and you cansay I'm only doing this, you
know, for a discounted priceright now.
I just want to make that veryclear that when I start my
business, prices will be whatthey will be you know, I
definitely did that with myfirst clients too.
They got one hell of a deal.
Most of my clients, honestly,have gotten one hell of a deal
because I was stuck in thatprice point for so long.
(37:58):
But you don't have to be.
I guess what the whole messageis.
You're not stuck.
You are a human that is on thisearth for a finite amount of
time, and life is both too shortand too long to be miserable in
a relationship, in a worksituation.
You can do it.
You just need to figure out thehealthiest, the easiest, the
smartest way to be doing it.
(38:18):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
All the above.
All the above, it's allpossible.
So if you ever basically, Ithink the theme of this is that
if you have imposter syndromeand you think you can't do it,
we can be your people to tellyou that you can do it.
So we know you can.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Also, isn't imposter syndrome such a bitch?
Imposter syndrome.
I don't know why I just said itlike that.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
It's a, yeah, it's a.
And then it happens to all ofus, inconsistently and when
we're even.
If I were to look back atmyself four years ago or let me
rephrase that, my four or fiveyear old, year old I can't talk
five, four years ago if I wereto look at myself now, I would
have been like oh my God, likeyou know, you did the thing.
(38:59):
You did the thing that youwanted to, but you still have
days where you're so narrowfocused that you're like I'm
failing at this and this andit's not going to work, and it's
wild to think that.
Which?
Speaker 1 (39:08):
is social media does that to us too, because I see
other people's work and I'm likeI don't do the thing of like I
wish I thought of that first,but like, in a little bit of a
way, it's like, oh, you know,like yeah, they just beat me to
that punch.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
What happens when you're surrounded by a main?
Stream concept where everyone'sshowing their happy stuff.
That's essentially what's goingto happen, because everybody
has bad days, so right, but youdon't see them on social.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
You see them on my social yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yeah, I'm going to start showing all my bad days.
Why?
Speaker 1 (39:37):
not who cares?
I'm not going to do that, I'mgoing to do that but.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
I'm going to do that Anyway that's all I got.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
So I hope you guys enjoyed this Disney podcast
slash motivational podcast.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
That's awesome, love it.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
But I will hang tight to hear what Kelly has to say
before we go.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah, I'll be, I will let you know.
I'll let her hear it out nextweek.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Perfect.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
All right.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
That's all I got.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
That's me too.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
So I'll probably talk to you not next Monday, but the
Monday after.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Sounds good.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
All right, deuces.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Bye.
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