August 8, 2023 • 45 mins
Are you prepared to revolutionize your wedding photography business? Brace yourself for an enlightening journey as we explore tried-and-tested marketing strategies that pack a punch, emphasizing the art of delivering superior customer service. We dig deep into the psychology behind effective marketing, examining the power of seven exposures and how to make each one count. We also discuss the role of trust-building, the impact of wedding photography platforms and how to ensure a high return on investment.
As we navigate through the intricacies of running a successful business, we consider the importance of work-life balance and the need to acknowledge and appreciate those who support us. We delve into the power of scarcity as a marketing strategy and the value of a well-managed email list. As prices rise, we discuss how to set expectations and build a robust client base, all while being human and relatable.
Wrapping up our journey, we delve into the fine art of sustainable growth. What does it mean to market authentically? How can you raise prices without alienating your loyal clients? And what can fellow business owners offer in terms of support and community? We answer these questions and more, ensuring you leave with a toolbox of strategies to boost your business. Lastly, we believe in the importance of enjoying what you do, so come and rediscover your passion with us.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey guys, you're listening to part two of the BS
podcast.
If you did not catch part oneof this week's episode, go ahead
and hit that back buttontowards the previous episode.
Otherwise, we look forward toseeing you there but I think the
I mean.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
So it's hard.
I've definitely paid for, likeyou know, targeted ads on like
Instagram or something, but it'slike five bucks here and there.
I'm not.
I don't pay for ads, I don'tpay for marketing, I don't pay
for Google, anything I don't.
I've never paid for the, not,I've never paid for wedding wire
.
I've almost been roped intothings like that.
I'm not a Quote-unquote paidpreferred vendor at any of the
(00:35):
venues that I shoot at I.
It's funny because I feel likemost of my marketing Techniques
that I learned in college almostwent by the wayside for me,
because my my biggest goal withmy business and the way in which
I was marketing was literallyGetting word of mouth by
providing an excellent service.
(00:56):
I wanted to go to a wedding.
I wanted to be able to put mycards on a DJ stand and if
somebody liked what they saw medo, that's how they would, you
know, contact me, that's howthey would know about it, and
I've always carried businesscards.
I've always stuck them incoffee shops and All of that.
But I found that I was.
I would go home from a weddingand I would already have two or
(01:19):
three inquiries from a guest whosaw me sitting at a table and
just decided to reach out.
Then in there.
Yeah, so it is so funny that,like you took the total, almost
opposite realm not and not inthe way of like you obviously
were providing an excellentservice, but you hit the ground
running with paid advertisementsand you're obviously you know
you're re upping Accidentally,maybe on your not subscription
(01:42):
or something like that.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
That's that's why I don't like them.
You don't get.
You don't get an emailnotification that says, hey,
you're gonna be re upped in aweek.
You know, are you sure you wantto do this?
They just do it and it's right.
I know a lot of businesses dothat, but for for the price that
you pay.
It seems really Fucking shadyto me to do that, so I'm there
was a New York Post article thatjust came out too.
Whether or not you trust the NewYork Post, different story but
(02:05):
there was a post article that ainner a my god, a reporter
published two weeks ago aboutthe wedding where the knot and
they're getting caught in someSome shady shit with their
marketing.
So I'm this why I'm on on train.
You know, I'm my, my feelingsare correct.
I had these feelings for alittle bit and I'm ready to move
(02:25):
out, but I have to wait.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So right now.
You have to wait until yoursubscription is actually done,
Whatever so set in your calendarlike okay, next year around
this time, yep, yeah you arecorrect.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Now it's not like I haven't gotten.
I mean, I've recently acquireda wedding that originated from a
contact that came from the knot, so I am getting it.
But you, you have to look atthe overall return on investment
.
It's right.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Are you just making the money back for you know you
having this.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
It's a waste of time.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
That it's a waste of time because you could get one
organically from another weddingwhere you didn't pay to have it
.
Advertise on the knot, butyou're average the best.
I think the best advertisingfor your business is being able
to provide a service where otherpeople are going to speak your
name and talk about theexperience with you.
So if you're at a wedding andyou're like literally most of
the weddings that we are at,have a minimum of a hundred
(03:15):
people who are Seeing you doyour craft right there.
Yep, you know, and a lot of thetime they'll even reach out
before they even see your edits,which you I would love to hear
about the the uptick possibly in.
You know you display weddingphotos at the reception, which
is something that a lot ofphotographers do.
It's not?
Speaker 1 (03:35):
something.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I do.
I feel like I take way too longto edit stuff so I can't like.
I feel like I physically likedon't have that in my body to do
at a reception.
But I would love to hear abouthow that has affected your
business by starting to showyour photos before the wedding
is even over, and then you'rehaving people look at you going
Whoa, like you know, I want toreach out to that guy like have
(03:58):
you seen an uptick in your salessince starting that service?
Speaker 1 (04:02):
So I'm gonna hit two notes here.
So we do two questions in that.
So I'm gonna come back to the.
I'm gonna come back to the Sameday at it at the wedding.
Previously you were talkingabout your experience and in how
it's important to you for yourmarketing that you, you know,
give your business cards on thetable and you just provide it.
(04:24):
You know a damn good experienceand someone's gonna notice that
someone at the wedding thatalso could be getting married.
I first thoughts on that.
So this is my what I'm gonna goto expect some photographers
would Rebuttal with or strugglewith.
That method only Works if youhave the weddings to go to.
(04:45):
So but how do you get theweddings to begin with?
How do you start when you'retrying to transition?
If you want to do this, youknow you're like I really want
to get away from my corporatecareer and move into this realm
and I don't want it to take fiveyears.
I want to get there a littlebit sooner.
What do I need to do to do that?
Brooke is not wrong.
That word of mouth, personalexperience, or call it the
(05:09):
handshake right, is the the mosttrustworthy, organic, best way
that you can pull somebody in,the best type of marketing,
because some of my best clientsthat I've ever worked with were
ones who were with me in person.
Maybe they were part of thewedding party and you know they
(05:31):
just loved the whole thing how Idid it, and so there's a trust.
I mean, there's no better trustthan to literally physically
meet you or I in person and seeus work.
That's that's the dream for anybusiness, right?
That's before you go and buysomething, you maybe it's a huge
purchase, you want to go, afriend has it and you're like
well, can I go to your house andsee it first?
Like there's, you need toPhysically be there or try the
(05:53):
product, or that's the conceptof free trials in marketing, so
that you're proving your product.
That's how we do it in our worldis we provide photos on
Instagram and such.
But if you can see us how wework, man, yeah, no better way.
But how do we cross that bridgeto get to get there?
How do we get there so that wehave enough weddings to even?
Because we're not gonna get awedding every time from every
(06:14):
wedding, only some will.
So how do we fill in that space?
Brooks, like now I geteverybody every Possible shooing
them away.
Too many, no so there, this iswhere that there's two different
you know I'll say two differentrealms of marketing, but
there's all.
There's different types ofmarketing and the intro intro
(06:36):
marketing to a new product orservice.
It is hard, it's really hard,and that's where I talk about
the concept of of hustle and if,depending on how fast you want
to get into or break into abusiness, what do you need to do
?
And I always say diversify is agreat you know, just the
concept of diversity in yourmarketing is important because,
(06:56):
so that rule of the rule ofseven right now, whether or not
that's a hundred percent true,I'm sure there's a more Modern
way to look at this, but it'sthe rule of seven.
Where to trust a business.
I got to see your placementseven times and whether that's
Instagram, pinterest, website,google ad, whatever, like, go
(07:17):
through how in person, meet, gothrough the whole thing, but,
generally speaking speaking,there's a psychology to seeing a
business seven times and thenthere's a trust of like okay,
this is a legitimate businessthat is worth my time to check
it out.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
It's not always the exact way Seven times and not
with negative review.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Yes, seven positive experiences or things, or just
physically seeing your business.
It doesn't have to be exactlyseven, it's not always going to
be exactly seven, but that'sjust a general psychological
rule of thumb that you need todiversify and be able to see
your business in more than onelocation in a good light.
But, without a doubt, yeah, thebest experiences I've had from
(07:59):
finding couples for a lot of thetime has been through organic.
They were there and they saw mywork.
So it's so obviously importantto provide an incredible
experience everywhere you go,and one way I do that this is
part two of your question is todo something like same day edits
, which I do not do.
I can't do every time becausethere's a lot of things that are
(08:22):
that depend on how the day goes, how much you know how my staff
is, whether it's a secondshooter or an assistant.
You know how does the weddingvibe do, what basically do I
have time and is it?
I don't want to say is it worthit, but is it going to provide
value?
That doesn't take away valuefrom the main reason I'm there.
(08:45):
That's the key point.
Where, or if the couple is avery which I learned this as
well if the couple is maybe shy,doesn't want the first photos
that they see of themselves tobe shared with the whole room,
for whatever reason that wouldbe me, that would be my it's,
(09:09):
it's a real thing and it's veryhard to know that unless you a
have spent a lot of time withthis couple, understood them,
asked all the right questions inall of your pre meetings, and
or just trust your gut that thismaybe isn't a good idea,
because I have gone down thepath of being blinded I say
(09:30):
dramatically being blinded byjust getting that.
I just want to get it done.
I just, you know, I was my goal.
I'm going to do same day editevery single time and they're
going to love it, and then I'meither rushing or picking photos
that maybe I shouldn't havenothing aggressive, just ones
that I could have picked better,yeah, and maybe needed a quick
edit.
It could be something as simpleas, like you know, a shadow on
(09:56):
the face that enhances like apimple, or something like I'm
just, I'm just saying anythingI've taught my head.
Actually, I have not had thathappen yet, but no, but it's
very possible, it's verypossible.
So you know I don't do it everytime, but when I have done it
we're talking about marketing.
When I have done it, I have hadcouples that I've booked that
(10:20):
originated from that.
Where they in it wasn't, theydidn't book me because I did a
same day edit.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
No booked me because they saw your work with some me
that same day.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Exactly.
They saw me how I ran the day,they saw me provide the photos
on the day of and that was justpart of it and just the overall
experience and happiness of thebride and groom and probably
them telling them like, yeah, itwas great, it was fantastic, he
did a good job.
And then all of a sudden, likeseals the deal, it's like, oh
wow, this is worth reaching out.
Yeah, gets you that inquiry,gets you that phone call.
(10:52):
So there's multiple ways andthat's just one, one unique way.
Just saw a post this morningthat was what are you doing.
It was for photographers andwas what are you doing to make
your client experience unique?
Because there's endless ways todo it and is really good at this
and we've talked about this ina previous podcast, I think,
(11:13):
maybe last year.
Some of the things that you dofor your couple post Post
experience, which is greatbecause, from a business
standpoint, you know you've doneyour job already, you've
collected the payment, you youknow there's nothing more you
have to give.
No still providing value to herclients post session, which is
(11:33):
even more valuable.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah.
So what Chris is talking aboutwhen he's saying post Session,
post wedding is usually I'll tryto provide a personalized gift.
I Am super into crafty, craftystuff, so I really like to Try
to do something with theirphotos that is unique to them.
It is something that they won't.
It's a gift that they won'treceive from anybody, but
someone like their weddingphotographer.
(11:56):
So I've had a.
I've had some successes andsome not so good.
I it's always a trial and error, but I think it's.
It's not even about the Giftitself and more about the effort
, if that makes sense.
It's more about, like, theeffort that I'm willing to go
Because I, my clients, I mean tome it feels like they're
(12:18):
extended family, like when theyhave kids.
I'm like, oh my god, you know,like I, just I, I want to
continue that relationshipfurther than what their contract
states.
So I always want to leave themwith a positive, positive
experience, not only for theirsession and For their wedding,
but then also afterwards too.
It's, you know, the ones thatare, you know, really
(12:40):
understanding of my pricing andrespectful of the fact that I'm
a human.
And you know I try to just kindof give back where I can, if
that makes sense and if thatmeans a personalized gift after
the wedding, I I Kind of I feellike that's almost necessary for
me, especially because myclients are so good about
(13:03):
Booking early, understandingthat I'm a human.
I think in the very beginning ofmy career I really struggled
Well, no, I actually I struggledway less with my mental health.
I think I was just in my early20s and I was just like, alright
, let's do it.
And now I think I've.
I've taken an approach whereI'm trying really hard to battle
(13:26):
burnout and I know that that'slike you know, that's like a,
it's like a topic thateverybody's kind of talking
about right now.
But I'm taking less and I'mcharging more and I appreciate
the clients that understand that.
Like it's funny because in inmarketing in school I remember
learning about starting abusiness and basically what you
could do with your price,product place and promotion and
(13:49):
you know the four Ps ofmarketing and it is a slippery
slope to start the way that wedid in the way of Well, I'm not
charging much at all right nowbut my prices absolutely will
Increase when I have moreclientele and all of that, and I
have struggled a lot withtrying so hard to keep my
(14:11):
pricing when it was for thebeginning clients and that's so
hard because you're filling upyour schedule with Projects that
are not making you the incomethat you need to be able to live
a healthy, sustainable worklife but trying to honor the
fact that, okay, you guys werewith me from the very beginning.
I appreciate you so much.
(14:32):
So what I started to do forthat is basically I started to
try to do one mini day a yearwhere my, my OG, my original
clients get first dibs on thosemini session dates.
Yeah, and those mini sessiontimes and what I do for that
which is this is a little bit ofmy marketing process, I guess,
(14:52):
so I can go into it is I try toprep my clients with you know
when I am Releasing those minidates and I have like an OG
client list of emails and then Ihave my regular subscribers.
So before anybody gets theemail for my minis, it's always
my original.
(15:12):
Those first two years where Iwas charging almost nothing,
they get an opportunity to bookthose first because I do realize
that they have helped me buildmy business.
I've been using their photosfor marketing.
I wouldn't be where I am withoutthem taking a chance on some 19
year old girl, you know.
So I try really hard to make itas fair as humanly possible,
(15:34):
where the sessions that I'moffering for the least amount of
money, those can be booked bymy OG clients.
That Didn't you know.
They took a chance on somebodywho honestly at that point, like
I, was just trying to learn andI was just trying to get as
much experience as possible.
But the other thing that I dowith my marketing tactic is, you
(15:56):
know, I in In the realm ofburnout, I feel like what burns
me out the most it's not theshooting, it's not the editing,
it is the constant influx ofemails and this is one of the
reason why I never actually II've all.
I almost got swindled into theknot and wedding wire and those
types of things Because I wantedto make sure that I hadn't.
(16:20):
You know, a constant flow ofinquiries coming in.
Yeah, and now that I'm charginga little bit more, what I, what
I started doing is I kind ofstarted doing like a booking
method, like tattoo artistswould do, where I opened my
books for maybe one week and Ibook a set amount of projects
that I Feel comfortable withbooking for a certain amount of
you know, a certain time periodand then when I feel like, okay,
(16:43):
I've checked in with all ofthose people, I have taken care
of those inquiries, maybe inanother month I can open my
books again.
I have been really lucky.
As far like I'm not saying thatthis method would work for
everybody, I think I've Built upa clientele base over the last
ten years where I do get solucky that when I open my books
my clients are excited to bookand they don't care how far in
(17:05):
advance.
So this might not work foreverybody, but basically what
I've been doing is opening up mybooks for one week for the next
six months and I'm able to takein as many inquiries as I can
for those six months, and thenI'm actually able to plan out my
year a little bit better too.
Where Usually I would havesomebody reaching out and going
hi, I need somebody next Sundayand it's like I don't even have
(17:28):
the mental capacity andbandwidth to fit your project's
details into my week.
You know what I'm saying.
Like my body might bephysically present and okay to
be shooting your event on Sunday, but the mental toll that it
takes to be able to prepare andall of that amongst what I've
already booked, I physicallydon't have it in me.
(17:49):
So if I'm able to have a weekwhere I go, okay, actually I do
have two days where, if I got aninquiry last minute and I could
fit them in, I have the mentalbandwidth because I've known
what I'm booked, what I havebooked for that week.
I've already checked in withthose people so far in advance
that adding one more thing to myweek actually wouldn't be the
(18:09):
biggest deal for me and itwouldn't run me down.
But again it's like it's one ofthose things where it's like,
yeah, but you do, you, you knowlike it might work for me but it
might not work for somebodyelse who might not have 10 years
of clients coming back to bookthem every year.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
So I love this.
So there's there's two actualthings that Brooke is doing.
One is they're both, one is atactic and one is a benefit.
So, because they're all tactics, we all have different tactics
and everyone is not going towork the same for everybody and
it has to completely.
It depends on your situationand what your business is and
(18:48):
how your clients interact withyou or how they, what they're
purchasing habits are.
So for, in this realm, this isa scarcity, this is the law of
scarcity.
So this is the same concept thatBrooke is doing is that when
you get an email that says thisis the last sale, this is the
last day of the sale.
(19:08):
This is how we encourageindividuals that want to
purchase a product or service tolook at it, because we're all
busy and take a decision.
Take a decision, take a lookand make a decision if they if
it's worth it to buy it.
But the benefit in this realmwhich I love because I have
never heard it spin this way isfor for Brooke and how she
(19:32):
schedules her life and how shemanages a really good balance of
that works for her in the senseof work life balance I guess
that's the word here that we useis just very tricky word.
Always it works.
It works for her.
So she gets the scarcity tacticin, where people will all book
and that's organized into herinto how she planned this and
(19:56):
how she can respond, and thenshe closes the books and she
doesn't have to worry about lastminute answering where she's at
a party somewhere and you'relike crap, I got an inquiry.
I like really should answerthat because the not and the
rest of the world tells me if Idon't answer in two hours, then
my chances of getting them areless.
So there are ways around that.
You can do automation and such,or you hire an assistant or a
virtual assistant and so forth,but in this realm Brooke doesn't
(20:18):
have to spend money on that, sothat's more important and she's
able to still secure theclients that she needs.
And it's as easy as that.
That is a great way to marketand it works Sounds like it
works for you.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
So I mean, this is the first year that I'm doing
the like.
I basically have an automaticemail that goes to everybody
else after my books are closedand it's like Nope, sorry, you
know, sign up for this emaillist for notifications on when
I'm opening it back up.
But I again, it doesn't.
It won't work for everybody.
It works for me because I havebasically accrued clients over
(20:54):
the last 10 years, that areexcited to get on my books and
they know what they're getting.
When, you know, I've had myOctober schedule booked out
since January of the beginningof this year and so now when I'm
getting inquiries for October,I'm like I'm really sorry.
Like I've had, you know, I havethree sessions a week and then
I actually am able to even planout the time so accordingly that
(21:18):
I can almost offer a little bitmore leniency in my session
dates, because I know I have Xamount of dates booked for this
month and as long as Ireschedule them within that
month, I'm still not runningmyself dry.
Yeah you know what I'm saying,Like oh yeah, and there are
emergency situations whereobviously, you know things have
to be moved up or things have tomove back.
(21:38):
But it also gives me theopportunity to give my clients a
better experience.
I just got an email thismorning that said you know, we
want to switch our date becauseI started a new job and I'm you
know whatever, and now I'm ableto look at that month of October
and go, okay, well, I have thisdate open, this day open and
this date open, and they weresupposed to be reschedules, but
I can actually switch yours tobe a reschedule date, you know.
(22:00):
So I'm able to give a little bitmore leniency to the clients.
They're paying for the servicewhere they should be able to me
and again, this doesn't work foreverybody, but they should be
able to work with me on whatworks best for them.
Like they're booking me so farin advance because it works best
for me that I can also giveback in that sense of like well,
we did book so far in advanceand we didn't know that that
(22:22):
date wasn't exactly going towork out.
And this is only only forfamily sessions.
Weddings Again, we've said thisbefore when I when I talk about
leniency, there really is noleniency in the wedding world.
When you book a wedding, it'scut dry hard.
That is the day.
So I just want to kind of likeput that little grain of salt in
(22:44):
there.
But yeah, it does it.
And it's nice too, because itgives me the opportunity to
provide a better experience formy clients, to have them have
something in my books where theyknow they already have their
family photos scheduled.
They're not.
I don't know if you see this alot, but like around Christmas
(23:05):
time or right before theholidays, a lot of people
scramble and they're like oh myGod, family photos when people
book me so far in advance.
They don't have that worry intheir mind of are we going to
get our photos back in time forChristmas or something like that
.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
And again, I always try to fit in at least one mini
session date.
But if I don't, and you bookedyour full session with me, you
have your Christmas cardsplanned and advanced and I feel
like that's just so much betterfor my mental health, maybe for
my client's mental health, wherethey're not waiting for me to
open up my books again to get onthem.
But yeah, that email list too,the, the.
(23:42):
I can't say enough good thingsabout having a separate email
list for the clients.
If you started at a lower pricepoint, having a separate email
list with those first two, threeyears of clients where you
weren't really charging a lotand you know you want to keep
seeing those clients backbecause they are your extended
family.
But maybe you know you feel bad, at one point you were charging
(24:03):
them $175 and now your sessionsstart at $700.
It's a super large hike as faras the cost, but our skill is
also evolving too, so you needto make sure that you're not
like minimizing the skill andthe experience, because that is
really what people are payingfor.
So, going back to the verybeginning of our conversation,
(24:26):
if you're looking to have photostaken inexpensively, this isn't
even to you know, we're notwarding you away from people who
are just starting, becausewe've provided experiences for
people that have it kept ourclients coming back.
But you need to, if you're thebusiness owner, set those
expectations that you knowsomeday my prices will go up and
(24:46):
this is just because I'mbeginning but then also expect,
set the expectations of theactual experience.
If you're shooting a wedding, itlooks something like I've never
done this before and I need youto understand my big I mean I
say this to all of my clientsstill, and I'm you know I'm
charging much more than Istarted with is, at the end of
(25:06):
the day, I am a human that isrelying on technology in every
aspect of your day.
And if you can't understand thatI am simply a human that is
doing what I can with theexperience that I have to
capture your day in the best waythat I can, then you're not for
me and I'm not for you.
If you want a robot, that's notwho I am Like.
I have a mental capacity that Ihit the limit, I have a certain
(25:30):
amount of skill sets, but whenit comes down to it, I'm a human
being.
Things happen and we are allrelying on technology in every
aspect for your day, whetherit's the DJ, whether it's me
just driving to your wedding andhoping that my car is going to
make it there okay and I'm notgoing to get into a car accident
.
There are so many things and somany factors that come with that
(25:51):
and setting the expectation,especially as a new photographer
, is really, really important,yep.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah, you're.
The technological response isgood that I'm just a person
depending upon my technology.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
And technology fails at some point.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
It does.
It does so that is why we havebackups.
We do have backups, but itdoesn't mean that at that moment
, the thing that you were usingmaybe had a quirk or something.
We have backups within backups.
We have cameras with two cardslots and all sorts of things,
but at some point things dobreak.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
So things break, things miss focus, things miss
fire.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
More often than not, it's probably going to happen
when we're using the gear whichis at a wedding.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
So right, that's the for hours on end, for hours on
end.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah, yeah, you're.
I love that and I think I loveyour strategy and I love how
works for you.
It's not just a strategy, it'san actual like, it's a life
strategy that that's workingbetween your business and your
personal life and it but it isgood to reiterate that that
probably works well when youhave an email following, or you
(26:57):
may not even just an emailfollowing.
What you have, brooke, is atrusted client base that knows
the work that you've done,because you've already done work
for them, so that that works.
So you have to build up to, touse that strategy.
But that could be a goal, youknow, to build an email list and
to provide experience thatsomeone who isn't in the younger
(27:18):
years of a business can worktowards that and can offer that,
because that's really nice,that's I, believe me.
It's not I don't, I don't wantto.
I can think of a better wordthan hustle.
And the goal is not to do thatforever, not even close.
The goal is to get your feetoff the ground and it's going to
take hard work to get there,potentially.
But depending on what you want,how quick you want it and in a
(27:41):
bunch of other variables.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
But to have a lifestyle like that within your
business and still make theamount of money that you need to
make to have whatever lifestyleyou want, you know that's,
that's a dream, that's great, sowell like, for example, this is
the first year that I've evereven thought about throwing a
Halloween party, because for themost part beforehand, I would
be like Well, I don't reallyknow how many clients I'm going
to have in October, I don't knowhow many things I'm going to be
(28:05):
juggling, because I would waituntil inquiries came in, and
then in the end of just in theend of September, people are
reaching out for Christmas cardsin October and it's like I
didn't even have the mentalbandwidth to be able to go.
Okay, I want to do somethingthis year for us and for
ourselves.
And you know, last year,throwing our wedding around the
(28:25):
same time, it was like no, thisis really nice and actually we
should, we should be doing thismore often than just having a
wedding, you know we should bemaking time to be spending with
our people instead of capturingother people's best events.
So I mean, Jerry's still out onthis booking system.
This is only something thatI've been doing for this year,
(28:47):
but so far it's it's all about.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
It's helping my mental health.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Like that's wonderful Vastly.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
That's wonderful, yeah, I, I.
Whatever works for anindividual business and for you
and how you, like I said,integrates into your life.
So that's that's wonderful,that's, that's a dream.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
So how much do you find yourself spending on
marketing each year?
Because I, I literally it'sjust like I'll do like a maybe a
targeted ad on Instagram If Ihave something that's like super
cool and I want the world tosee it, but it's not even really
because I'm trying to getclients.
It's like, oh my God, I'm sopumped about this thing I did
and I just want people to see,so I'll literally pay like five
bucks to have it run to otheraccounts for a few days, but
(29:28):
it's not.
I don't do it to like get moreclients.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
It's more just like look at this thing.
I, so it's good to keep in mindthere should be context to this
question.
So for me, I you know I'mlooking to book about.
In the past two years I've donebetween 30 and 40 weddings, so
of my own, and to have thosenumbers with a growing business,
(29:55):
marketing and paid marketing isa way to do that and it has
helped, has helped.
You know it takes a while tounderstand how to market on the
paid advertisements, but it does.
It does get me clients, pendingwhat it is.
So from a money standpointtotal, I mean in actual
marketing I've probably spentsomewhere between five and eight
(30:16):
grand a year in in that, whichis actually relatively low for.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Well, for what you're getting, yeah, for the clients
that you're getting in, like theprice of the weddings that
you're trying to book, then yeah, totally makes sense.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
I've been actually really happy with it.
So it's, uh, when you, you lookat a certain, it should be
about and I say this verycarefully, and I've said that
word a lot today or that phrase,I say this carefully Um well, I
think anything you say on herehas to just like, like you have
to take a grain of salt.
Yeah, so there's good advice onhow much money you should spend
(30:52):
on a growing business in yourpaid marketing and marketing in
general.
That's every avenue.
That's social media, website,uh, you know, newspaper ads,
whatever you want to call allthe different realms of
advertising should be about.
I think 10% should be close to10% of your of your gross
(31:13):
revenue.
Um, to, if you are continuingon a growing business path and
that's a again, that is stillgeneralized, but the specific
word being growing If you arelooking to increase sales in
your business, 10% is a goodnumber, uh, and I need marketing
individuals to come, come at meand after they hear this, uh,
and tell me if that number iscorrect.
(31:34):
But I believe it's.
It's around there.
It shouldn't be.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
This marketing individual can't come at you
because I don't even.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
I'm like yeah you are the marketing individual you
got to tell me.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
I always well, here's the thing is like.
I always say like I don't know,like a little off topic, but I
always like I try to tell peoplewho are thinking about
bettering their education andgoing to school Well, to me I
feel like you don't need to goto college to.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Oh, that's a whole separate topic we can have here.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
So yeah, like I just you know, I was in college of
almost 10 years ago and I don't.
It's funny, it helped me openup my business and start the
business and all of that.
But you need to find what worksfor you.
You can go to the marketingclasses, you can go to the
management classes, you can getall of that.
(32:23):
You know, like I remember thefour P's of all of that.
But what works for you is, Imean, I guess, like there is no
like this is so bad, there is nolike marketing.
Like you know, if you do this,you will get this.
It all is dependent on thelevel of your work.
(32:43):
It's not like if you take acertain marketing class, you're
going to be able to okay, well,if I spend 10% of my income,
then I'll have the growth ofthis.
It doesn't work like that.
It's a generalization ofnumbers, I guess.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
I've seen this going around recently in the
Connecticut market in the socialmedia space.
Some professionals that Ifollow have been talking about
this or ranting about it.
Talking about, but, as the ingeneral, the economy in the in
an overall whole has beendampened since 2022.
And you're starting to see areal solid proliferation of
(33:21):
really skeezy tactics, which isexactly what you just described,
which is getting us gettingserved an ad that says if you do
this, you're going to makewhatever.
A million dollars, $100,000 andthere is not a single business
out there that will give youdirect results like that, not
(33:42):
direct as you're beingadvertised, because if that was
the case, then all of themillionaires in the world would
have already taken advantage ofthat.
And the people that have.
You know it doesn't work likethat.
Nothing does Nothing works thatdirectly.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
It's a combination of pieces.
Like the people who come toLens and Light.
You can provide all of thatinformation.
You can have people you knowpaying to come to your, but if
they don't actually take thatinformation home and put that to
use in a way that works forthem, then yeah, no, you're just
wasting your money.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
I don't advertise like, hey, if you come to Lens
and Light, you will be, you know, a fucking great photographer
that will, instantly, when youwalk out these doors, get you
know clients knocking in yourdoor.
That's not, it's a very much so.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
It's not the way you use that experience.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
We're giving in, we're going to help you, we're
going to push information andeducation on you and really get
you inspired to take control ofyour life, with actual tactics
and things you can use.
But if you don't do the work,it doesn't mean anything.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Even bigger than that is online education.
God, I am not in the past twoyears, but initially, when I
first started my business, I wasa junkie for online education.
I loved it, and because you getso sucked into it, well, if I
do this, then, like you know,I'm going to be that much better
and you may be better at thatthing, but it still doesn't get
you clients.
It's not.
It's yeah, so we're spiralingto a different counter.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
We ran every time.
It's okay.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
We always ran yeah.
So at the end of the day,strategy, hard work, time,
things that you already know,that Brooke and I don't have to
tell or talk about, is how yougrow your business and get
things accomplished.
And trial and error and failure, those are all it is what it is
.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
So what was the actual question that you had?
I don't even remember now.
I wish I could, like press arewind button right here and
listen to what you asked.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
I think I was asking how much you spent.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
So ultimately I was just sayingthat I gave a number like five
to $8,000 is where.
I was spending which was lessthan that 10% number, which is
great, I felt really good aboutthat, but it took time to get to
that point.
So in the first year, let's say,I spent $8,000 of marketing.
(36:02):
That first year I still wasn'trisk.
I was probably lower, meaningmy gross revenue was probably in
comparison like 20%.
Like you know, as I made thetransition from part time to
full time and then even thenfull time into continued growing
business, it takes so much timeto get it going.
It does.
You have to love it, you haveto love what you're doing,
(36:25):
otherwise you won't make it.
So, but I loved it.
I loved the photographyindustry and hospitality.
I do love it, so I love seeingthe clients get excited.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Well, and I think the biggest thing with marketing
too, is like people can tell ifyou don't love it.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
This is going to be three, three episode at this
point.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Oh, really oh well, we could chop it in half right
after this.
But no people.
If you don't love what you'redoing, it will become so
abundantly clear to your clientsthat, like, your best version
of marketing is being the bestversion of you while you're
doing your craft.
Again, it's so funny becauseyou use the word scarcity for my
(37:14):
booking method and I don'treally even look at it like that
, like I totally understand whatyou're saying, but I it's
almost like I'm doing this notto provide this, like oh my God
got a book now.
I'm literally just doing it formy mental health, because I
know that if I book X amount ofprojects, I'm not giving myself
to my clients enough to be ableto have them pay the prices that
(37:36):
they're paying.
So being able to take lesscharge more I'm actually.
I feel as though I can takecare of myself, and if I can do
that, I can provide a betterexperience to the clients that
are booking me.
So it's almost like if you areyour best self when you are
marketing and when you are doingyour craft, that's what's going
(37:56):
to pull people in to go.
Oh, I wanna see more of whatthat person does.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yep, it's a good idea too to I'm just thinking about
this to do a poll on all of yourprevious clients and I know
that's advice always to get afeel for like what they liked
about you, so you can get abetter understanding of what.
Was it that why they booked,why?
You know, so yeah, that's-.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
And then in the beginning it might be price.
In the beginning it might beprice and then they might fall
in love with your work andunderstand like, oh yeah, well,
I did pay $175 for that at thevery beginning.
But now that I've seen theamount of growth that that
person has had or the amount ofclients that they have to take
on, I feel like most of myclients who booked me in the
beginning, they are not tryingto get a deal out of me.
(38:46):
They understand that in thevery beginning that was a deal
because of the circumstancesthat I was in and that they
found me in.
And now that they see that I'mbasically offering a better
service, having all of the skilland experience that I have had
since the 10 years ago, that Istarted shooting.
You find your people Right andso they don't really mind.
(39:07):
And I feel like it is scarywhen you're starting to price
things so low and that likehustle mentality of like all
right, and then I have thisshoot and then I have to run to
this one just to make your endsmeet.
But if you do it in a way whereyou're slowly increasing your
prices and slowly making theexperience better for those
(39:28):
clients, they won't really badan eye or go.
But you used to charge $175because that initial price point
was so much lower than youshould have been charging.
You know you can never, youshould never look at well, I'm
only charging $175 for this, soI'm only going to give this much
of myself.
In every single thing that youdo, you need to give 100% of
(39:50):
yourself to get people to comeback, otherwise they will go.
Yeah, but you used to charge$175 for the same thing.
You know, yep, which is fair,but still like if you are
providing, oh it is fair.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
It's just whether or not they and if they don't want
to book you because of thatprice, that's fine they just
don't, that's completely okay,but you have to continue to move
forward, they can find anothernew photographer.
Exactly, that's the part that'slike no hard feelings.
This is a business, this youknow, so it has to work for you
too.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
And I always it's so funny like even with my wedding
couples, like I'll get off thephone or I'll, right before I
get off the phone with any of mywedding couples.
This is so bad, cause I was Iwas a business major, like I
should have.
What I do with them, though, isI go.
I don't ever want you to feelpressured to work with me, and I
don't want you to feel likethis is something that you have
to make the decision right now.
In fact, I need a little timeto think about this too, so I
(40:40):
would love if you could do me afavor and go talk to three other
photographers to make sure thatI'm the one you want.
Most photographers are like booknow, like book me at the end of
the call.
We're good To me.
I'm like no, this is a bigdecision and it's a lot of money
, and I understand that.
So if you talk to somebodytomorrow who you feel like you
jive better with, just let meknow.
No big deal, and I again, I'mat a place where I've accrued so
(41:02):
many clients where I don't.
I know that there is so muchwork to go around that I don't
mind offering.
Yeah, I'll send you a few of myphotographer friends pages,
even Like.
I want them to win too.
Community over competition.
If you think, for some reason,that Christopher Stiles is the
better photographer for you,then I genuinely want you to
book him, because if there'ssomething about me that you're
(41:25):
like, but we love her work, oryou know.
If you're trying to convinceyourself to book me, please
don't do it.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
It's a good.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Look at that as a.
In a more technical term, thatis a.
What you are doing and whatyou're saying is you're
positioning yourself as aconfident photographer.
That's one way to look at it,where you're like, and if you
are not happy with it, then youknow that's completely great,
that's okay.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Yeah, this is my work , this is what I offer, and if
this isn't something that you'relooking for, I would rather us
figure that out right now.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Yep, you know, so you'll have a happier client in
the end, when they come back toyou too.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Right.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
And there's a trust there that they trust you.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
So that's yeah and most of the time, they'll email
me and be like it's a resoundingyes, like we talked to three
other photographers and, like welove you.
And sometimes, like I've hadpeople, I had one person be like
we love your work, we loveeverything about it, blah, blah,
blah.
And then I sent them like threeother photographers to go talk
to.
And then the email that cameback which, like this is just
kind of rude, so, like, don't dothis to a photographer, but it
(42:25):
was like it was like, uponlooking at further galleries, we
actually don't really like yourediting.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
And it's like-.
Well-, I was like okay, likeI'm glad but you know what?
That's okay?
Because if you deliveredgalleries that looked like what
you provided, then maybe theywouldn't be happy with it, so
and that's-.
Exactly Sales sometimes isn'tworth it, so-.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
No, no, no, no, and I wouldn't Sales is finite.
And if you want and I wouldn'twant somebody coming back to me
going I want re-edits on everysingle wedding photo, because
that we don't want it to be thatI'm literally sending you what.
I have delivered to somebodyelse.
If you don't see the value inthat, that's totally fine.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Somebody else will.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
That's it.
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Yeah, that's all I got.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
That's all I got.
There's.
I think we can go.
So this was a scratching thesurface of marketing.
Honestly, I think we could gointo a more in-depth
conversation and pick somethinga little bit more specific than
just talking about baselinemarketing, which I would love to
revisit at some point, maybe inthe winter.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
So we'll come back to that because Maybe in the
winter, maybe with a guest whodoes something totally different
.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
That would be a good idea.
Let's make sure we write thatdown.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
So yeah, like the idea, Because you have such a
different way of booking than Ido, and I know that there are so
many ways of doing it.
Oh yeah, it would beinteresting, I didn't even talk
about all the ways that I book.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
There's so many different other ways, so it's
like I said we could talk aboutthis for a long time, so I said
this needs to be like afive-part episode.
So marketing is big.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
I know we're trying to keep it like-.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Marketing's a big topic.
So that's it.
But yeah, that's all I got.
Next time we talk, I do have acool story to share.
You know what I was gonna share?
I've got two good ones, I'vegot my ghost story, but we're
gonna save that for the month ofOctober, spooky season.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Oh my God, I'm gonna start doing all of these DIYs.
Cause we decided we're throwinga Halloween party and so we're
trying to keep the cost as lowas possible, but like I have all
of these ideas that I'm gonnabe like-.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
I have zero doubts that it's gonna look incredible.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Because you are the queen of DIY.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
As far as it's so pumped.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Yep, yeah, that's awesome and it's coming up.
I'm not rushing it.
I do enjoy summer.
I know you're making that face.
I know you love spooky season.
And you love October, I do.
I love autumn, I do, love fall,I love all those things.
But I don't ever like to rushsummer, because what comes after
that is cold.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
I love snow.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
I love snow?
I do.
I love snow and cold and I'mgood with the change, but I
never want to rush out of theseason because I do enjoy things
for that season, so-.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
I just like to hibernate, so.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
I understand that January actually I can't
hibernate this year cause we gotlens and light in February
there is zero hibernation goingon.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
You did that to yourself, dude.
I did it to myself.
I don't feel bad about that.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Don't feel bad, just support me.
That's all I ask.
Just give me a thumbs up.
I got you Fantastic.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
All right, bye, thank you later.
V building with the penguins.
Hey guys, you're listening to part two of the BS
podcast.
If you did not catch part oneof this week's episode, go ahead
and hit that back buttontowards the previous episode.
Otherwise, we look forward toseeing you there but I think the
I mean.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
So it's hard.
I've definitely paid for, likeyou know, targeted ads on like
Instagram or something, but it'slike five bucks here and there.
I'm not.
I don't pay for ads, I don'tpay for marketing, I don't pay
for Google, anything I don't.
I've never paid for the, not,I've never paid for wedding wire
.
I've almost been roped intothings like that.
I'm not a Quote-unquote paidpreferred vendor at any of the
(00:35):
venues that I shoot at I.
It's funny because I feel likemost of my marketing Techniques
that I learned in college almostwent by the wayside for me,
because my my biggest goal withmy business and the way in which
I was marketing was literallyGetting word of mouth by
providing an excellent service.
(00:56):
I wanted to go to a wedding.
I wanted to be able to put mycards on a DJ stand and if
somebody liked what they saw medo, that's how they would, you
know, contact me, that's howthey would know about it, and
I've always carried businesscards.
I've always stuck them incoffee shops and All of that.
But I found that I was.
I would go home from a weddingand I would already have two or
(01:19):
three inquiries from a guest whosaw me sitting at a table and
just decided to reach out.
Then in there.
Yeah, so it is so funny that,like you took the total, almost
opposite realm not and not inthe way of like you obviously
were providing an excellentservice, but you hit the ground
running with paid advertisementsand you're obviously you know
you're re upping Accidentally,maybe on your not subscription
(01:42):
or something like that.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
That's that's why I don't like them.
You don't get.
You don't get an emailnotification that says, hey,
you're gonna be re upped in aweek.
You know, are you sure you wantto do this?
They just do it and it's right.
I know a lot of businesses dothat, but for for the price that
you pay.
It seems really Fucking shadyto me to do that, so I'm there
was a New York Post article thatjust came out too.
Whether or not you trust the NewYork Post, different story but
(02:05):
there was a post article that ainner a my god, a reporter
published two weeks ago aboutthe wedding where the knot and
they're getting caught in someSome shady shit with their
marketing.
So I'm this why I'm on on train.
You know, I'm my, my feelingsare correct.
I had these feelings for alittle bit and I'm ready to move
(02:25):
out, but I have to wait.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So right now.
You have to wait until yoursubscription is actually done,
Whatever so set in your calendarlike okay, next year around
this time, yep, yeah you arecorrect.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Now it's not like I haven't gotten.
I mean, I've recently acquireda wedding that originated from a
contact that came from the knot, so I am getting it.
But you, you have to look atthe overall return on investment
.
It's right.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Are you just making the money back for you know you
having this.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
It's a waste of time.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
That it's a waste of time because you could get one
organically from another weddingwhere you didn't pay to have it
.
Advertise on the knot, butyou're average the best.
I think the best advertisingfor your business is being able
to provide a service where otherpeople are going to speak your
name and talk about theexperience with you.
So if you're at a wedding andyou're like literally most of
the weddings that we are at,have a minimum of a hundred
(03:15):
people who are Seeing you doyour craft right there.
Yep, you know, and a lot of thetime they'll even reach out
before they even see your edits,which you I would love to hear
about the the uptick possibly in.
You know you display weddingphotos at the reception, which
is something that a lot ofphotographers do.
It's not?
Speaker 1 (03:35):
something.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I do.
I feel like I take way too longto edit stuff so I can't like.
I feel like I physically likedon't have that in my body to do
at a reception.
But I would love to hear abouthow that has affected your
business by starting to showyour photos before the wedding
is even over, and then you'rehaving people look at you going
Whoa, like you know, I want toreach out to that guy like have
(03:58):
you seen an uptick in your salessince starting that service?
Speaker 1 (04:02):
So I'm gonna hit two notes here.
So we do two questions in that.
So I'm gonna come back to the.
I'm gonna come back to the Sameday at it at the wedding.
Previously you were talkingabout your experience and in how
it's important to you for yourmarketing that you, you know,
give your business cards on thetable and you just provide it.
(04:24):
You know a damn good experienceand someone's gonna notice that
someone at the wedding thatalso could be getting married.
I first thoughts on that.
So this is my what I'm gonna goto expect some photographers
would Rebuttal with or strugglewith.
That method only Works if youhave the weddings to go to.
(04:45):
So but how do you get theweddings to begin with?
How do you start when you'retrying to transition?
If you want to do this, youknow you're like I really want
to get away from my corporatecareer and move into this realm
and I don't want it to take fiveyears.
I want to get there a littlebit sooner.
What do I need to do to do that?
Brooke is not wrong.
That word of mouth, personalexperience, or call it the
(05:09):
handshake right, is the the mosttrustworthy, organic, best way
that you can pull somebody in,the best type of marketing,
because some of my best clientsthat I've ever worked with were
ones who were with me in person.
Maybe they were part of thewedding party and you know they
(05:31):
just loved the whole thing how Idid it, and so there's a trust.
I mean, there's no better trustthan to literally physically
meet you or I in person and seeus work.
That's that's the dream for anybusiness, right?
That's before you go and buysomething, you maybe it's a huge
purchase, you want to go, afriend has it and you're like
well, can I go to your house andsee it first?
Like there's, you need toPhysically be there or try the
(05:53):
product, or that's the conceptof free trials in marketing, so
that you're proving your product.
That's how we do it in our worldis we provide photos on
Instagram and such.
But if you can see us how wework, man, yeah, no better way.
But how do we cross that bridgeto get to get there?
How do we get there so that wehave enough weddings to even?
Because we're not gonna get awedding every time from every
(06:14):
wedding, only some will.
So how do we fill in that space?
Brooks, like now I geteverybody every Possible shooing
them away.
Too many, no so there, this iswhere that there's two different
you know I'll say two differentrealms of marketing, but
there's all.
There's different types ofmarketing and the intro intro
(06:36):
marketing to a new product orservice.
It is hard, it's really hard,and that's where I talk about
the concept of of hustle and if,depending on how fast you want
to get into or break into abusiness, what do you need to do
?
And I always say diversify is agreat you know, just the
concept of diversity in yourmarketing is important because,
(06:56):
so that rule of the rule ofseven right now, whether or not
that's a hundred percent true,I'm sure there's a more Modern
way to look at this, but it'sthe rule of seven.
Where to trust a business.
I got to see your placementseven times and whether that's
Instagram, pinterest, website,google ad, whatever, like, go
(07:17):
through how in person, meet, gothrough the whole thing, but,
generally speaking speaking,there's a psychology to seeing a
business seven times and thenthere's a trust of like okay,
this is a legitimate businessthat is worth my time to check
it out.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
It's not always the exact way Seven times and not
with negative review.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Yes, seven positive experiences or things, or just
physically seeing your business.
It doesn't have to be exactlyseven, it's not always going to
be exactly seven, but that'sjust a general psychological
rule of thumb that you need todiversify and be able to see
your business in more than onelocation in a good light.
But, without a doubt, yeah, thebest experiences I've had from
(07:59):
finding couples for a lot of thetime has been through organic.
They were there and they saw mywork.
So it's so obviously importantto provide an incredible
experience everywhere you go,and one way I do that this is
part two of your question is todo something like same day edits
, which I do not do.
I can't do every time becausethere's a lot of things that are
(08:22):
that depend on how the day goes, how much you know how my staff
is, whether it's a secondshooter or an assistant.
You know how does the weddingvibe do, what basically do I
have time and is it?
I don't want to say is it worthit, but is it going to provide
value?
That doesn't take away valuefrom the main reason I'm there.
(08:45):
That's the key point.
Where, or if the couple is avery which I learned this as
well if the couple is maybe shy,doesn't want the first photos
that they see of themselves tobe shared with the whole room,
for whatever reason that wouldbe me, that would be my it's,
(09:09):
it's a real thing and it's veryhard to know that unless you a
have spent a lot of time withthis couple, understood them,
asked all the right questions inall of your pre meetings, and
or just trust your gut that thismaybe isn't a good idea,
because I have gone down thepath of being blinded I say
(09:30):
dramatically being blinded byjust getting that.
I just want to get it done.
I just, you know, I was my goal.
I'm going to do same day editevery single time and they're
going to love it, and then I'meither rushing or picking photos
that maybe I shouldn't havenothing aggressive, just ones
that I could have picked better,yeah, and maybe needed a quick
edit.
It could be something as simpleas, like you know, a shadow on
(09:56):
the face that enhances like apimple, or something like I'm
just, I'm just saying anythingI've taught my head.
Actually, I have not had thathappen yet, but no, but it's
very possible, it's verypossible.
So you know I don't do it everytime, but when I have done it
we're talking about marketing.
When I have done it, I have hadcouples that I've booked that
(10:20):
originated from that.
Where they in it wasn't, theydidn't book me because I did a
same day edit.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
No booked me because they saw your work with some me
that same day.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Exactly.
They saw me how I ran the day,they saw me provide the photos
on the day of and that was justpart of it and just the overall
experience and happiness of thebride and groom and probably
them telling them like, yeah, itwas great, it was fantastic, he
did a good job.
And then all of a sudden, likeseals the deal, it's like, oh
wow, this is worth reaching out.
Yeah, gets you that inquiry,gets you that phone call.
(10:52):
So there's multiple ways andthat's just one, one unique way.
Just saw a post this morningthat was what are you doing.
It was for photographers andwas what are you doing to make
your client experience unique?
Because there's endless ways todo it and is really good at this
and we've talked about this ina previous podcast, I think,
(11:13):
maybe last year.
Some of the things that you dofor your couple post Post
experience, which is greatbecause, from a business
standpoint, you know you've doneyour job already, you've
collected the payment, you youknow there's nothing more you
have to give.
No still providing value to herclients post session, which is
(11:33):
even more valuable.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah.
So what Chris is talking aboutwhen he's saying post Session,
post wedding is usually I'll tryto provide a personalized gift.
I Am super into crafty, craftystuff, so I really like to Try
to do something with theirphotos that is unique to them.
It is something that they won't.
It's a gift that they won'treceive from anybody, but
someone like their weddingphotographer.
(11:56):
So I've had a.
I've had some successes andsome not so good.
I it's always a trial and error, but I think it's.
It's not even about the Giftitself and more about the effort
, if that makes sense.
It's more about, like, theeffort that I'm willing to go
Because I, my clients, I mean tome it feels like they're
(12:18):
extended family, like when theyhave kids.
I'm like, oh my god, you know,like I, just I, I want to
continue that relationshipfurther than what their contract
states.
So I always want to leave themwith a positive, positive
experience, not only for theirsession and For their wedding,
but then also afterwards too.
It's, you know, the ones thatare, you know, really
(12:40):
understanding of my pricing andrespectful of the fact that I'm
a human.
And you know I try to just kindof give back where I can, if
that makes sense and if thatmeans a personalized gift after
the wedding, I I Kind of I feellike that's almost necessary for
me, especially because myclients are so good about
(13:03):
Booking early, understandingthat I'm a human.
I think in the very beginning ofmy career I really struggled
Well, no, I actually I struggledway less with my mental health.
I think I was just in my early20s and I was just like, alright
, let's do it.
And now I think I've.
I've taken an approach whereI'm trying really hard to battle
(13:26):
burnout and I know that that'slike you know, that's like a,
it's like a topic thateverybody's kind of talking
about right now.
But I'm taking less and I'mcharging more and I appreciate
the clients that understand that.
Like it's funny because in inmarketing in school I remember
learning about starting abusiness and basically what you
could do with your price,product place and promotion and
(13:49):
you know the four Ps ofmarketing and it is a slippery
slope to start the way that wedid in the way of Well, I'm not
charging much at all right nowbut my prices absolutely will
Increase when I have moreclientele and all of that, and I
have struggled a lot withtrying so hard to keep my
(14:11):
pricing when it was for thebeginning clients and that's so
hard because you're filling upyour schedule with Projects that
are not making you the incomethat you need to be able to live
a healthy, sustainable worklife but trying to honor the
fact that, okay, you guys werewith me from the very beginning.
I appreciate you so much.
(14:32):
So what I started to do forthat is basically I started to
try to do one mini day a yearwhere my, my OG, my original
clients get first dibs on thosemini session dates.
Yeah, and those mini sessiontimes and what I do for that
which is this is a little bit ofmy marketing process, I guess,
(14:52):
so I can go into it is I try toprep my clients with you know
when I am Releasing those minidates and I have like an OG
client list of emails and then Ihave my regular subscribers.
So before anybody gets theemail for my minis, it's always
my original.
(15:12):
Those first two years where Iwas charging almost nothing,
they get an opportunity to bookthose first because I do realize
that they have helped me buildmy business.
I've been using their photosfor marketing.
I wouldn't be where I am withoutthem taking a chance on some 19
year old girl, you know.
So I try really hard to make itas fair as humanly possible,
(15:34):
where the sessions that I'moffering for the least amount of
money, those can be booked bymy OG clients.
That Didn't you know.
They took a chance on somebodywho honestly at that point, like
I, was just trying to learn andI was just trying to get as
much experience as possible.
But the other thing that I dowith my marketing tactic is, you
(15:56):
know, I in In the realm ofburnout, I feel like what burns
me out the most it's not theshooting, it's not the editing,
it is the constant influx ofemails and this is one of the
reason why I never actually II've all.
I almost got swindled into theknot and wedding wire and those
types of things Because I wantedto make sure that I hadn't.
(16:20):
You know, a constant flow ofinquiries coming in.
Yeah, and now that I'm charginga little bit more, what I, what
I started doing is I kind ofstarted doing like a booking
method, like tattoo artistswould do, where I opened my
books for maybe one week and Ibook a set amount of projects
that I Feel comfortable withbooking for a certain amount of
you know, a certain time periodand then when I feel like, okay,
(16:43):
I've checked in with all ofthose people, I have taken care
of those inquiries, maybe inanother month I can open my
books again.
I have been really lucky.
As far like I'm not saying thatthis method would work for
everybody, I think I've Built upa clientele base over the last
ten years where I do get solucky that when I open my books
my clients are excited to bookand they don't care how far in
(17:05):
advance.
So this might not work foreverybody, but basically what
I've been doing is opening up mybooks for one week for the next
six months and I'm able to takein as many inquiries as I can
for those six months, and thenI'm actually able to plan out my
year a little bit better too.
Where Usually I would havesomebody reaching out and going
hi, I need somebody next Sundayand it's like I don't even have
(17:28):
the mental capacity andbandwidth to fit your project's
details into my week.
You know what I'm saying.
Like my body might bephysically present and okay to
be shooting your event on Sunday, but the mental toll that it
takes to be able to prepare andall of that amongst what I've
already booked, I physicallydon't have it in me.
(17:49):
So if I'm able to have a weekwhere I go, okay, actually I do
have two days where, if I got aninquiry last minute and I could
fit them in, I have the mentalbandwidth because I've known
what I'm booked, what I havebooked for that week.
I've already checked in withthose people so far in advance
that adding one more thing to myweek actually wouldn't be the
(18:09):
biggest deal for me and itwouldn't run me down.
But again it's like it's one ofthose things where it's like,
yeah, but you do, you, you knowlike it might work for me but it
might not work for somebodyelse who might not have 10 years
of clients coming back to bookthem every year.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
So I love this.
So there's there's two actualthings that Brooke is doing.
One is they're both, one is atactic and one is a benefit.
So, because they're all tactics, we all have different tactics
and everyone is not going towork the same for everybody and
it has to completely.
It depends on your situationand what your business is and
(18:48):
how your clients interact withyou or how they, what they're
purchasing habits are.
So for, in this realm, this isa scarcity, this is the law of
scarcity.
So this is the same concept thatBrooke is doing is that when
you get an email that says thisis the last sale, this is the
last day of the sale.
(19:08):
This is how we encourageindividuals that want to
purchase a product or service tolook at it, because we're all
busy and take a decision.
Take a decision, take a lookand make a decision if they if
it's worth it to buy it.
But the benefit in this realmwhich I love because I have
never heard it spin this way isfor for Brooke and how she
(19:32):
schedules her life and how shemanages a really good balance of
that works for her in the senseof work life balance I guess
that's the word here that we useis just very tricky word.
Always it works.
It works for her.
So she gets the scarcity tacticin, where people will all book
and that's organized into herinto how she planned this and
(19:56):
how she can respond, and thenshe closes the books and she
doesn't have to worry about lastminute answering where she's at
a party somewhere and you'relike crap, I got an inquiry.
I like really should answerthat because the not and the
rest of the world tells me if Idon't answer in two hours, then
my chances of getting them areless.
So there are ways around that.
You can do automation and such,or you hire an assistant or a
virtual assistant and so forth,but in this realm Brooke doesn't
(20:18):
have to spend money on that, sothat's more important and she's
able to still secure theclients that she needs.
And it's as easy as that.
That is a great way to marketand it works Sounds like it
works for you.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
So I mean, this is the first year that I'm doing
the like.
I basically have an automaticemail that goes to everybody
else after my books are closedand it's like Nope, sorry, you
know, sign up for this emaillist for notifications on when
I'm opening it back up.
But I again, it doesn't.
It won't work for everybody.
It works for me because I havebasically accrued clients over
(20:54):
the last 10 years, that areexcited to get on my books and
they know what they're getting.
When, you know, I've had myOctober schedule booked out
since January of the beginningof this year and so now when I'm
getting inquiries for October,I'm like I'm really sorry.
Like I've had, you know, I havethree sessions a week and then
I actually am able to even planout the time so accordingly that
(21:18):
I can almost offer a little bitmore leniency in my session
dates, because I know I have Xamount of dates booked for this
month and as long as Ireschedule them within that
month, I'm still not runningmyself dry.
Yeah you know what I'm saying,Like oh yeah, and there are
emergency situations whereobviously, you know things have
to be moved up or things have tomove back.
(21:38):
But it also gives me theopportunity to give my clients a
better experience.
I just got an email thismorning that said you know, we
want to switch our date becauseI started a new job and I'm you
know whatever, and now I'm ableto look at that month of October
and go, okay, well, I have thisdate open, this day open and
this date open, and they weresupposed to be reschedules, but
I can actually switch yours tobe a reschedule date, you know.
(22:00):
So I'm able to give a little bitmore leniency to the clients.
They're paying for the servicewhere they should be able to me
and again, this doesn't work foreverybody, but they should be
able to work with me on whatworks best for them.
Like they're booking me so farin advance because it works best
for me that I can also giveback in that sense of like well,
we did book so far in advanceand we didn't know that that
(22:22):
date wasn't exactly going towork out.
And this is only only forfamily sessions.
Weddings Again, we've said thisbefore when I when I talk about
leniency, there really is noleniency in the wedding world.
When you book a wedding, it'scut dry hard.
That is the day.
So I just want to kind of likeput that little grain of salt in
(22:44):
there.
But yeah, it does it.
And it's nice too, because itgives me the opportunity to
provide a better experience formy clients, to have them have
something in my books where theyknow they already have their
family photos scheduled.
They're not.
I don't know if you see this alot, but like around Christmas
(23:05):
time or right before theholidays, a lot of people
scramble and they're like oh myGod, family photos when people
book me so far in advance.
They don't have that worry intheir mind of are we going to
get our photos back in time forChristmas or something like that
.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
And again, I always try to fit in at least one mini
session date.
But if I don't, and you bookedyour full session with me, you
have your Christmas cardsplanned and advanced and I feel
like that's just so much betterfor my mental health, maybe for
my client's mental health, wherethey're not waiting for me to
open up my books again to get onthem.
But yeah, that email list too,the, the.
(23:42):
I can't say enough good thingsabout having a separate email
list for the clients.
If you started at a lower pricepoint, having a separate email
list with those first two, threeyears of clients where you
weren't really charging a lotand you know you want to keep
seeing those clients backbecause they are your extended
family.
But maybe you know you feel bad, at one point you were charging
(24:03):
them $175 and now your sessionsstart at $700.
It's a super large hike as faras the cost, but our skill is
also evolving too, so you needto make sure that you're not
like minimizing the skill andthe experience, because that is
really what people are payingfor.
So, going back to the verybeginning of our conversation,
(24:26):
if you're looking to have photostaken inexpensively, this isn't
even to you know, we're notwarding you away from people who
are just starting, becausewe've provided experiences for
people that have it kept ourclients coming back.
But you need to, if you're thebusiness owner, set those
expectations that you knowsomeday my prices will go up and
(24:46):
this is just because I'mbeginning but then also expect,
set the expectations of theactual experience.
If you're shooting a wedding, itlooks something like I've never
done this before and I need youto understand my big I mean I
say this to all of my clientsstill, and I'm you know I'm
charging much more than Istarted with is, at the end of
(25:06):
the day, I am a human that isrelying on technology in every
aspect of your day.
And if you can't understand thatI am simply a human that is
doing what I can with theexperience that I have to
capture your day in the best waythat I can, then you're not for
me and I'm not for you.
If you want a robot, that's notwho I am Like.
I have a mental capacity that Ihit the limit, I have a certain
(25:30):
amount of skill sets, but whenit comes down to it, I'm a human
being.
Things happen and we are allrelying on technology in every
aspect for your day, whetherit's the DJ, whether it's me
just driving to your wedding andhoping that my car is going to
make it there okay and I'm notgoing to get into a car accident
.
There are so many things and somany factors that come with that
(25:51):
and setting the expectation,especially as a new photographer
, is really, really important,yep.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah, you're.
The technological response isgood that I'm just a person
depending upon my technology.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
And technology fails at some point.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
It does.
It does so that is why we havebackups.
We do have backups, but itdoesn't mean that at that moment
, the thing that you were usingmaybe had a quirk or something.
We have backups within backups.
We have cameras with two cardslots and all sorts of things,
but at some point things dobreak.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
So things break, things miss focus, things miss
fire.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
More often than not, it's probably going to happen
when we're using the gear whichis at a wedding.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
So right, that's the for hours on end, for hours on
end.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah, yeah, you're.
I love that and I think I loveyour strategy and I love how
works for you.
It's not just a strategy, it'san actual like, it's a life
strategy that that's workingbetween your business and your
personal life and it but it isgood to reiterate that that
probably works well when youhave an email following, or you
(26:57):
may not even just an emailfollowing.
What you have, brooke, is atrusted client base that knows
the work that you've done,because you've already done work
for them, so that that works.
So you have to build up to, touse that strategy.
But that could be a goal, youknow, to build an email list and
to provide experience thatsomeone who isn't in the younger
(27:18):
years of a business can worktowards that and can offer that,
because that's really nice,that's I, believe me.
It's not I don't, I don't wantto.
I can think of a better wordthan hustle.
And the goal is not to do thatforever, not even close.
The goal is to get your feetoff the ground and it's going to
take hard work to get there,potentially.
But depending on what you want,how quick you want it and in a
(27:41):
bunch of other variables.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
But to have a lifestyle like that within your
business and still make theamount of money that you need to
make to have whatever lifestyleyou want, you know that's,
that's a dream, that's great, sowell like, for example, this is
the first year that I've evereven thought about throwing a
Halloween party, because for themost part beforehand, I would
be like Well, I don't reallyknow how many clients I'm going
to have in October, I don't knowhow many things I'm going to be
(28:05):
juggling, because I would waituntil inquiries came in, and
then in the end of just in theend of September, people are
reaching out for Christmas cardsin October and it's like I
didn't even have the mentalbandwidth to be able to go.
Okay, I want to do somethingthis year for us and for
ourselves.
And you know, last year,throwing our wedding around the
(28:25):
same time, it was like no, thisis really nice and actually we
should, we should be doing thismore often than just having a
wedding, you know we should bemaking time to be spending with
our people instead of capturingother people's best events.
So I mean, Jerry's still out onthis booking system.
This is only something thatI've been doing for this year,
(28:47):
but so far it's it's all about.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
It's helping my mental health.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Like that's wonderful Vastly.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
That's wonderful, yeah, I, I.
Whatever works for anindividual business and for you
and how you, like I said,integrates into your life.
So that's that's wonderful,that's, that's a dream.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
So how much do you find yourself spending on
marketing each year?
Because I, I literally it'sjust like I'll do like a maybe a
targeted ad on Instagram If Ihave something that's like super
cool and I want the world tosee it, but it's not even really
because I'm trying to getclients.
It's like, oh my God, I'm sopumped about this thing I did
and I just want people to see,so I'll literally pay like five
bucks to have it run to otheraccounts for a few days, but
(29:28):
it's not.
I don't do it to like get moreclients.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
It's more just like look at this thing.
I, so it's good to keep in mindthere should be context to this
question.
So for me, I you know I'mlooking to book about.
In the past two years I've donebetween 30 and 40 weddings, so
of my own, and to have thosenumbers with a growing business,
(29:55):
marketing and paid marketing isa way to do that and it has
helped, has helped.
You know it takes a while tounderstand how to market on the
paid advertisements, but it does.
It does get me clients, pendingwhat it is.
So from a money standpointtotal, I mean in actual
marketing I've probably spentsomewhere between five and eight
(30:16):
grand a year in in that, whichis actually relatively low for.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Well, for what you're getting, yeah, for the clients
that you're getting in, like theprice of the weddings that
you're trying to book, then yeah, totally makes sense.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
I've been actually really happy with it.
So it's, uh, when you, you lookat a certain, it should be
about and I say this verycarefully, and I've said that
word a lot today or that phrase,I say this carefully Um well, I
think anything you say on herehas to just like, like you have
to take a grain of salt.
Yeah, so there's good advice onhow much money you should spend
(30:52):
on a growing business in yourpaid marketing and marketing in
general.
That's every avenue.
That's social media, website,uh, you know, newspaper ads,
whatever you want to call allthe different realms of
advertising should be about.
I think 10% should be close to10% of your of your gross
(31:13):
revenue.
Um, to, if you are continuingon a growing business path and
that's a again, that is stillgeneralized, but the specific
word being growing If you arelooking to increase sales in
your business, 10% is a goodnumber, uh, and I need marketing
individuals to come, come at meand after they hear this, uh,
and tell me if that number iscorrect.
(31:34):
But I believe it's.
It's around there.
It shouldn't be.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
This marketing individual can't come at you
because I don't even.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
I'm like yeah you are the marketing individual you
got to tell me.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
I always well, here's the thing is like.
I always say like I don't know,like a little off topic, but I
always like I try to tell peoplewho are thinking about
bettering their education andgoing to school Well, to me I
feel like you don't need to goto college to.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Oh, that's a whole separate topic we can have here.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
So yeah, like I just you know, I was in college of
almost 10 years ago and I don't.
It's funny, it helped me openup my business and start the
business and all of that.
But you need to find what worksfor you.
You can go to the marketingclasses, you can go to the
management classes, you can getall of that.
(32:23):
You know, like I remember thefour P's of all of that.
But what works for you is, Imean, I guess, like there is no
like this is so bad, there is nolike marketing.
Like you know, if you do this,you will get this.
It all is dependent on thelevel of your work.
(32:43):
It's not like if you take acertain marketing class, you're
going to be able to okay, well,if I spend 10% of my income,
then I'll have the growth ofthis.
It doesn't work like that.
It's a generalization ofnumbers, I guess.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
I've seen this going around recently in the
Connecticut market in the socialmedia space.
Some professionals that Ifollow have been talking about
this or ranting about it.
Talking about, but, as the ingeneral, the economy in the in
an overall whole has beendampened since 2022.
And you're starting to see areal solid proliferation of
(33:21):
really skeezy tactics, which isexactly what you just described,
which is getting us gettingserved an ad that says if you do
this, you're going to makewhatever.
A million dollars, $100,000 andthere is not a single business
out there that will give youdirect results like that, not
(33:42):
direct as you're beingadvertised, because if that was
the case, then all of themillionaires in the world would
have already taken advantage ofthat.
And the people that have.
You know it doesn't work likethat.
Nothing does Nothing works thatdirectly.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
It's a combination of pieces.
Like the people who come toLens and Light.
You can provide all of thatinformation.
You can have people you knowpaying to come to your, but if
they don't actually take thatinformation home and put that to
use in a way that works forthem, then yeah, no, you're just
wasting your money.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
I don't advertise like, hey, if you come to Lens
and Light, you will be, you know, a fucking great photographer
that will, instantly, when youwalk out these doors, get you
know clients knocking in yourdoor.
That's not, it's a very much so.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
It's not the way you use that experience.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
We're giving in, we're going to help you, we're
going to push information andeducation on you and really get
you inspired to take control ofyour life, with actual tactics
and things you can use.
But if you don't do the work,it doesn't mean anything.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Even bigger than that is online education.
God, I am not in the past twoyears, but initially, when I
first started my business, I wasa junkie for online education.
I loved it, and because you getso sucked into it, well, if I
do this, then, like you know,I'm going to be that much better
and you may be better at thatthing, but it still doesn't get
you clients.
It's not.
It's yeah, so we're spiralingto a different counter.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
We ran every time.
It's okay.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
We always ran yeah.
So at the end of the day,strategy, hard work, time,
things that you already know,that Brooke and I don't have to
tell or talk about, is how yougrow your business and get
things accomplished.
And trial and error and failure, those are all it is what it is
.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
So what was the actual question that you had?
I don't even remember now.
I wish I could, like press arewind button right here and
listen to what you asked.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
I think I was asking how much you spent.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
So ultimately I was just sayingthat I gave a number like five
to $8,000 is where.
I was spending which was lessthan that 10% number, which is
great, I felt really good aboutthat, but it took time to get to
that point.
So in the first year, let's say,I spent $8,000 of marketing.
(36:02):
That first year I still wasn'trisk.
I was probably lower, meaningmy gross revenue was probably in
comparison like 20%.
Like you know, as I made thetransition from part time to
full time and then even thenfull time into continued growing
business, it takes so much timeto get it going.
It does.
You have to love it, you haveto love what you're doing,
(36:25):
otherwise you won't make it.
So, but I loved it.
I loved the photographyindustry and hospitality.
I do love it, so I love seeingthe clients get excited.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Well, and I think the biggest thing with marketing
too, is like people can tell ifyou don't love it.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
This is going to be three, three episode at this
point.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Oh, really oh well, we could chop it in half right
after this.
But no people.
If you don't love what you'redoing, it will become so
abundantly clear to your clientsthat, like, your best version
of marketing is being the bestversion of you while you're
doing your craft.
Again, it's so funny becauseyou use the word scarcity for my
(37:14):
booking method and I don'treally even look at it like that
, like I totally understand whatyou're saying, but I it's
almost like I'm doing this notto provide this, like oh my God
got a book now.
I'm literally just doing it formy mental health, because I
know that if I book X amount ofprojects, I'm not giving myself
to my clients enough to be ableto have them pay the prices that
(37:36):
they're paying.
So being able to take lesscharge more I'm actually.
I feel as though I can takecare of myself, and if I can do
that, I can provide a betterexperience to the clients that
are booking me.
So it's almost like if you areyour best self when you are
marketing and when you are doingyour craft, that's what's going
(37:56):
to pull people in to go.
Oh, I wanna see more of whatthat person does.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yep, it's a good idea too to I'm just thinking about
this to do a poll on all of yourprevious clients and I know
that's advice always to get afeel for like what they liked
about you, so you can get abetter understanding of what.
Was it that why they booked,why?
You know, so yeah, that's-.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
And then in the beginning it might be price.
In the beginning it might beprice and then they might fall
in love with your work andunderstand like, oh yeah, well,
I did pay $175 for that at thevery beginning.
But now that I've seen theamount of growth that that
person has had or the amount ofclients that they have to take
on, I feel like most of myclients who booked me in the
beginning, they are not tryingto get a deal out of me.
(38:46):
They understand that in thevery beginning that was a deal
because of the circumstancesthat I was in and that they
found me in.
And now that they see that I'mbasically offering a better
service, having all of the skilland experience that I have had
since the 10 years ago, that Istarted shooting.
You find your people Right andso they don't really mind.
(39:07):
And I feel like it is scarywhen you're starting to price
things so low and that likehustle mentality of like all
right, and then I have thisshoot and then I have to run to
this one just to make your endsmeet.
But if you do it in a way whereyou're slowly increasing your
prices and slowly making theexperience better for those
(39:28):
clients, they won't really badan eye or go.
But you used to charge $175because that initial price point
was so much lower than youshould have been charging.
You know you can never, youshould never look at well, I'm
only charging $175 for this, soI'm only going to give this much
of myself.
In every single thing that youdo, you need to give 100% of
(39:50):
yourself to get people to comeback, otherwise they will go.
Yeah, but you used to charge$175 for the same thing.
You know, yep, which is fair,but still like if you are
providing, oh it is fair.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
It's just whether or not they and if they don't want
to book you because of thatprice, that's fine they just
don't, that's completely okay,but you have to continue to move
forward, they can find anothernew photographer.
Exactly, that's the part that'slike no hard feelings.
This is a business, this youknow, so it has to work for you
too.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
And I always it's so funny like even with my wedding
couples, like I'll get off thephone or I'll, right before I
get off the phone with any of mywedding couples.
This is so bad, cause I was Iwas a business major, like I
should have.
What I do with them, though, isI go.
I don't ever want you to feelpressured to work with me, and I
don't want you to feel likethis is something that you have
to make the decision right now.
In fact, I need a little timeto think about this too, so I
(40:40):
would love if you could do me afavor and go talk to three other
photographers to make sure thatI'm the one you want.
Most photographers are like booknow, like book me at the end of
the call.
We're good To me.
I'm like no, this is a bigdecision and it's a lot of money
, and I understand that.
So if you talk to somebodytomorrow who you feel like you
jive better with, just let meknow.
No big deal, and I again, I'mat a place where I've accrued so
(41:02):
many clients where I don't.
I know that there is so muchwork to go around that I don't
mind offering.
Yeah, I'll send you a few of myphotographer friends pages,
even Like.
I want them to win too.
Community over competition.
If you think, for some reason,that Christopher Stiles is the
better photographer for you,then I genuinely want you to
book him, because if there'ssomething about me that you're
(41:25):
like, but we love her work, oryou know.
If you're trying to convinceyourself to book me, please
don't do it.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
It's a good.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Look at that as a.
In a more technical term, thatis a.
What you are doing and whatyou're saying is you're
positioning yourself as aconfident photographer.
That's one way to look at it,where you're like, and if you
are not happy with it, then youknow that's completely great,
that's okay.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Yeah, this is my work , this is what I offer, and if
this isn't something that you'relooking for, I would rather us
figure that out right now.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Yep, you know, so you'll have a happier client in
the end, when they come back toyou too.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Right.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
And there's a trust there that they trust you.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
So that's yeah and most of the time, they'll email
me and be like it's a resoundingyes, like we talked to three
other photographers and, like welove you.
And sometimes, like I've hadpeople, I had one person be like
we love your work, we loveeverything about it, blah, blah,
blah.
And then I sent them like threeother photographers to go talk
to.
And then the email that cameback which, like this is just
kind of rude, so, like, don't dothis to a photographer, but it
(42:25):
was like it was like, uponlooking at further galleries, we
actually don't really like yourediting.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
And it's like-.
Well-, I was like okay, likeI'm glad but you know what?
That's okay?
Because if you deliveredgalleries that looked like what
you provided, then maybe theywouldn't be happy with it, so
and that's-.
Exactly Sales sometimes isn'tworth it, so-.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
No, no, no, no, and I wouldn't Sales is finite.
And if you want and I wouldn'twant somebody coming back to me
going I want re-edits on everysingle wedding photo, because
that we don't want it to be thatI'm literally sending you what.
I have delivered to somebodyelse.
If you don't see the value inthat, that's totally fine.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Somebody else will.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
That's it.
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Yeah, that's all I got.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
That's all I got.
There's.
I think we can go.
So this was a scratching thesurface of marketing.
Honestly, I think we could gointo a more in-depth
conversation and pick somethinga little bit more specific than
just talking about baselinemarketing, which I would love to
revisit at some point, maybe inthe winter.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
So we'll come back to that because Maybe in the
winter, maybe with a guest whodoes something totally different
.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
That would be a good idea.
Let's make sure we write thatdown.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
So yeah, like the idea, Because you have such a
different way of booking than Ido, and I know that there are so
many ways of doing it.
Oh yeah, it would beinteresting, I didn't even talk
about all the ways that I book.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
There's so many different other ways, so it's
like I said we could talk aboutthis for a long time, so I said
this needs to be like afive-part episode.
So marketing is big.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
I know we're trying to keep it like-.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Marketing's a big topic.
So that's it.
But yeah, that's all I got.
Next time we talk, I do have acool story to share.
You know what I was gonna share?
I've got two good ones, I'vegot my ghost story, but we're
gonna save that for the month ofOctober, spooky season.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Oh my God, I'm gonna start doing all of these DIYs.
Cause we decided we're throwinga Halloween party and so we're
trying to keep the cost as lowas possible, but like I have all
of these ideas that I'm gonnabe like-.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
I have zero doubts that it's gonna look incredible.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Because you are the queen of DIY.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
As far as it's so pumped.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Yep, yeah, that's awesome and it's coming up.
I'm not rushing it.
I do enjoy summer.
I know you're making that face.
I know you love spooky season.
And you love October, I do.
I love autumn, I do, love fall,I love all those things.
But I don't ever like to rushsummer, because what comes after
that is cold.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
I love snow.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
I love snow?
I do.
I love snow and cold and I'mgood with the change, but I
never want to rush out of theseason because I do enjoy things
for that season, so-.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
I just like to hibernate, so.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
I understand that January actually I can't
hibernate this year cause we gotlens and light in February
there is zero hibernation goingon.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
You did that to yourself, dude.
I did it to myself.
I don't feel bad about that.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Don't feel bad, just support me.
That's all I ask.
Just give me a thumbs up.
I got you Fantastic.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
All right, bye, thank you later.
V building with the penguins.
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