5 Things We Learned at TMSA Elevate 2025

Episode Transcript
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Blythe Brumleve (00:00):
You welcome

Blythe Milligan (00:05):
Welcome into another episode of everything is
logistics, a podcast for thethinkers in freight. I'm your
host, Blythe Milligan, and weare proudly presented by SPI
logistics, and we are here liveat TMSA elevate in Austin,
Texas, and we're making this thesecond year in a row where we
record immediately after theTMSA is done what our top
takeaways are. And we have afantastic panel of guests with

(00:27):
us today. We have Charlie Saffrowith CS Recruiting. We have RJ
with SPI logistics. RJ, how doyou say your last name? Or
Finnegan, well, I heard youpronouncing your Yeah. How do
you say your first name? We'llkeep it we'll keep it kosher,
but very

Unknown (00:47):
fancy. We need to do that to my name. Of

Blythe Milligan (00:52):
course, we have Anthony with Mohawk Global, and
we have a little bit of adifferent perspective, because
we have RJ with marketing, wehave Anthony with sales, and
then we have Charlie with kindof like the entrepreneurial
mindset. So let's just startoff, Charlie. I'll start with
you. What is your the toptakeaway that you've learned so
far at TMSA? Wow.

Charlie Saffro (01:11):
I would say, okay, there. I'm going to say
two, because one is very like inmy head with the economic trend
panel, when Lee Glasgow said,I'm a very optimistic person,
but I'm not optimistic rightnow, something like that. And I
just, I feel that it's a lot ofunpredictability uncertainty.
There's a lot of humility in theroom, where it was just like, we

(01:34):
don't know what AI is going todo and what's going to happen. I
think the other takeaway islike, watch out world, because
freight is getting like, sexy orsomething, I don't know. I feel
like these topics that wediscussed here, fraud,
environmental sustainability,are topics that usually do not
come up in sales and marketingconversations, and whether it's

(01:58):
this organization or thecreative minds here, but we're
spinning it and using fraudprotection and environmental
awareness to market and sellthese services to other
companies. So that was a bigtakeaway. It's not just we can
move your freight anymore, it'swe can move your freight, and

(02:18):
these are the other things wecan handle or that we care
about. Yeah, that was one of thesessions that they were talking
about how your internalmarketing is so important in
order to create that externalexperience. And I think for a
lot of folks, they're notnecessarily like sitting in on
those, like operational meetingsor sitting in with sales, and so
there's a lot ofmiscommunication and non

(02:41):
alignment, and those are easywins that we can get in a tough
market like this. So what, RJ,what about you? What were some
of the top takeaways that you'velearned so far? Yeah, I'd say
it's probably about two things.
I think the first one definitelyduring the first day, talking
about, really about branding,but not branding, and it's just
about, you know, how are youpositioning your company, or how
you want your customers to

RJ Finnegan (03:02):
see you. I think at the end of day, it's really how
sales as well, needs tointegrate branding into their
messaging, and it'll also helpclosing. So I think it was
really cool to kind of, I forgether name, the first keynote
speaker, Kate, yeah, when shewas breaking down, you know the
why, what and how's and the 15to 30 seconds, and really

(03:24):
explaining that. And I thinkeven just when you're doing your
marketing and you're thinking,hey, you know, I want to have
the best, you know, the bestmessage out there, to be able to
capture my customers attention,even just keeping the keeping it
simple at the end of the dayworks as well. And then the
second thing is, just when Iattended two years ago, I feel
like now, just the way that themarketing tools and the way it's

(03:46):
exploded, like you said, it'sbecome sexy. Now it's like, you
know, you lot of people areintegrating different AIS and
technologies and things likethat into their workflows, and
it's freights. The industry isreally evolving as well with
technology. And like, two yearsago, I couldn't even talk to
somebody about a lot of thetools even I use. And then
nowadays, everyone's hopping on,which is really awesome as well,
too. As a big tech guy, yeah,definitely, it's like, I'm

trying to manage through all of the chaos
with not just what's going on inthe freight world, but also with
the tools and technologyinfusion that that's coming.
It's really changed, like everypart of my job, I feel like, and
I'm sure the same for y'all aswell. What about you, Anthony?
What are some we're

Unknown (04:24):
taking a little bit of a different direction, because
that's typically what I do.

Anthony Pagnotto (04:29):
I agree with both you. There was, I loved the
keynote. I absolutely loved thekeynote. I ordered her book off
of Amazon. Like, 10 minutes intothe keynote, I was like, I want
more of this. It was just afantastic way to start the
conference. And for me, there'sa there's something that I
haven't been able to get out ofmy mind. And I'm gonna, I'm
gonna say this, and I don't wantto get political or anything

(04:51):
like that. But

Unknown (04:54):
there, when I get here and I see my friends and people
that that I've known. And we gettogether, and we start talking
about what we do, and there's somuch excitement and pride and
happiness. And, you know, wehave the first night together,
the reception, right? We meetthe newcomers. How many
newcomers do we have at TMSA?
How freaking awesome. How coolis that, right? And so we see

(05:18):
all this, there's so muchpositivity, and just like all
this great stuff going on, we gothrough a wonderful first day of
events, and it's and it's allthese, like, we know the
market's tough, right? We knowfreight, freight hasn't been
easy for a long time, and Ithink we're all used to that,
but we talk to each other, andnobody's giving up, nobody's

(05:41):
backing away, right? We're allcharging forward, ahead and with
this group, and one of thethings I love about TMSA is the
ability to bounce ideas off ofeach other, and knowing that
amongst this group, I have agroup of peers to share ideas
that have similar situations tome, and I will tell you my heart
is, it still is, but it was sofull, right? And then we had an

(06:06):
event here at TMSA last night inAustin, Texas, and it was the
protest against ice. And I'm notmaking a political point. I have
my opinion on that, and I don't,I don't, I don't want to draw
any conclusions everybody'sreasonable minds make. May
disagree, right? And I don'twant to get into that, but to

(06:29):
see the protest outside and knowthat there's lives being
affected and a lot of thingsgoing on in the turmoil in this
country, followed up by theeconomic panel right and
watching the the thunder cloudsright that are forming, both in
the industry, and, let's behonest, in the society with

(06:51):
which we live in, which are alldeeply connected, this industry
is very there are a lot ofpeople who aren't US citizens,
who drive trucks, right? Whohelp get product to market every
day, and a lot. So all this istied together, and I was really
had a had a rough afternoontoday, maybe a little tiredness,
right? And little bit going on,but you bounce back by this

(07:13):
group knowing that there's alittle bit of shelter in the
storm with these friends andcolleagues. And we're going to
be here. We're going to continueto do excellent work for our
clients. We're going to continueto deliver and we're going to
get through these things as ateam, as a family, as an
industry, and there will bebright skies ahead for all of
us, because we're going to pushthrough this as a society as

(07:35):
well. And I appreciate knowingall of you and all the other
colleagues, and knowing thatwe're going through similar
challenges together, that's anice experience, right? A weird
bonding experience, completely abonding right? There's not a lot
of over here. There's not a lotof people in our day to day. I
don't know about you, but youknow, not a lot of people know

(07:57):
exactly what I do on a day today basis, they have a general
idea that tariffs don't make itbetter, right? Like they have a
general idea of that, but to beable to sit here with people and
talk about what we're what we'redoing, and what our teams are
doing, and our people areexcelling despite these
challenges, our operationsteams, our sales professionals,
our marketing people, all of uspositive, exciting stories about

(08:19):
what's going on despite thethunder clouds, right? You know,
we're going to get through this.
So don'tunderrate that. I mean, in your
world too, you're you're talkingabout your competitors being
part of your circle and yoursupports and that, I think that
is so amazing. You come to anevent like this, and it's
competitors not commiserating,sharing highs, sharing lows,

(08:41):
sharing solutions like you justdon't see that in a lot of
industries.

Yeah, I would definitely agree with TMSA. I
think for a lot of folks that goto a lot of industry
conferences, it's the big show,it's the big expo floor, and
sometimes that is amazing, butit can also be overwhelming. But
then you come to a place likethis, it almost feels like your
tight knit community, that youcan kind of lean on each other
and solve these, you know, bigproblems together. So with all

(09:08):
of that said, I would, I wouldlike to move into some, maybe
some of the sessions that youfelt were really impactful
during your time here. RJ, I'llstart with you. What session
maybe did you sit in on thatreally resonated with

Unknown (09:20):
you? Yeah, definitely.
It was the one I attended today,drop and hook. Shout out.
Michelle LeBlanc, yep. So I likedoing videos, you know, things
like that, shorts, reels, allthat. What she really broke down
was just how each platformreally speaks. You have to
understand how each platformworks, but then also
understanding what each platformis pushing, because they each

(09:42):
drop their own revenue report,and they'll say what they are,
you know, expecting in order togenerate revenue. And like for
like, as marketers, you know,they'll say, Hey, be everywhere,
be loud, be seen. But that's notnecessarily the case, right,
especially with your targetaudience. And you know, it's
going back to a little bit,yeah. A basic one on one
marketing. But I'm still, I wasstill blown away by, I didn't

(10:04):
realize that, you know,Instagram is definitely more
community driven and commentbased driven. So you'll see a
lot of videos will be like, youknow, follow my journey for part
two and things like that. WhileYouTube is more educational
based, right, but also focusingon the long form and more SEO
keyword titles. But like, youknow, I've chopped up podcasts,
I've done videos, and I'veposted them all across

(10:26):
platforms, and then Tiktok won'tdo so well YouTube. I mean,
Instagram won't do so well, butdo really well on YouTube, for
example, right? So it's justthen understanding the deeper
insights of each platform andhow can really leverage video
messaging, so that we're notjust creating content for all
platforms, we're creatingcontent for specific platforms,
but being more specific,specific with that platform in

(10:47):
layman's terms. So that wassomething that really because I,
again, I'm a big media nerd, solike something that really hit
me hard today. I was like, Oh,wow. I thought I knew my video,
but I leveled up again. So,

and I think it's interesting too, that
either different contentperforms so differently on
different channels. Yeah, onething will work really well on
X, another thing will workreally well on YouTube, shorts,
and then it'll fall flat onLinkedIn or Instagram. It's
just, it's tough navigating allof these things, but it's almost
like the advice of the old daysof like, oh, just pick one

(11:18):
platform and get really good atit. You can't really do that
anymore. You have to beeverywhere, everywhere, which is
kind of annoying, but at thesame time, like it's the nature
of the world, that digital worldthat we live in. Charlie, what
about you? What kind of session?
I mean, you sat in on all thesession. I know it was

Unknown (11:35):
very present this year.
I'm like, all my notes. I just,I want to commend the TMSA
educational committee and Jen,just the way they sequence to
the content. Again, I'm sittingin a bit of a different chair as
more of an outsider looking inand a partner to the industry,
but just the way, like, I don'twant to steal your thunder if
you want to talk about Kate'ssession, but Kate and Leo came

(11:57):
in and really, just like, framedit up, like, what is your 15
second pitch? And I feel likeeveryone in the room was like,
Oh shoot. Like, I think I knowit, but like, the way you just
explained it, I don't have thatdown. Then, you know, Robert
Bain comes in and talks abouthis personal brand and all the
things that we have access tothat we could all do. And then
we had the shipper panel. So itwas like, Oh, now we're actually

(12:18):
healing, hearing what ourcustomers want to hear so we can
And I think, like Michael Lin'sstory on the panel, when he's
like, you know, if you call meand I answer and you say, Yo,
bro, like, that's not going toget my phrase. So I just love
the way it was, like, layeredon. It was like, Oh, we all have
a problem we didn't reallyrealize we had. Here's one way I

(12:41):
can solve it. Here's how ourbigger strategy can solve it.
And that, just like continuedthrough two days. So I don't
know my wheels were spinning.
I'm selling a very differentservice, but same approach. No,
no strategy. I have all of theseExactly. I'm like, where that's
awesome. I mean, it's so and onething I will point out with the
TMSA, unlike other conferences,is that you can catch

(13:02):
everything. It's not like abunch of different talks going
on at once, where you have tokind of pick and choose. So you
could really sit well there. Imean, there are breakout
sessions that you have to pickand choose naturally, but most
of the sessions you can step inon and watch all of them if you
want to. Anthony, what aboutwhat about you outside of the
opening keynote? No, yeah, no,absolutely. We can all agree
that was fantastic for me.

(13:26):
First of all, I want to say,unlike many other conferences
and even TMSA at times likewhich is to elevate a fantastic
conference, I don't think therewas a single session that I
didn't enjoy thoroughly thistime. Like, whatever it was,
whatever was in the water herein Austin was really clicking
right. The team did a fantasticjob of putting them together. So

(13:47):
I'm more it's a harder thing totalk about, because they all
made an impression on me. I wasreally this is going to sound
like, probably not where youwere going. I enjoyed so much
our sponsor, vendor, likebreakout, where we walk around
scavenger hunt, yeah, andtalking to them. We had so many
high quality, like, like, reallycool, you know, businesses,

(14:12):
they're, they're my size Mohawk.
Global is a mid sizedorganization, right with some
really cool challenges andopportunities ahead of us, and
to meet these other kind ofright sized players for us, or
have the ability to scale withus, was really exciting, and it
always gets my creative juicesflowing almost too much, right?
You're like, okay, like, wecan't do everything at once,

(14:32):
right?
We're all gonna crash, like,absolutely short circuit
tomorrow. SoI really enjoyed that. And then
the shipper panel for me isalways, always fantastic.
Michael Lind was hilarious,right? That was just a fantastic
situation, and it and itconfirms it's important, because
it confirms what I know and whatI feel, and that sales is

(14:54):
challenging, right? We have somewonderful professional. At
Mohawk global that are workingtheir their tails off to bring
in new clients, and these guysmade it fairly clear, in such a
positive way that it takes a lotof time, right? You've got to
build relationship, you've gotto add value, you've got to
bring something, and you've gotto bring your authentic self to

(15:16):
the table. I loved them callingout, AI, messaging, right? Like,
like, like, please. And foreverybody out there, please,
don't ever send me another AImessage again. Like, it's an
automatic trash can, like, youknow, and so that's a bot. Call
me. Yeah, absolutely right.

(15:36):
Yeah, you haven't had that yet.
Listen to my voicemail. Yeah,it's,
it's, it's so crazy, right? Andand so. And that confirms a lot
of Mohawk Global's approach withthe market, which is being
genuine, being human driven. Weare. We work hard on technology,
but it's the back end, right?
It's to drive efficiency, todrive process, to simplify
things for our clients and andso I really enjoyed that

(16:00):
shippers panel, and I left, likefeeling really good about what
we're doing as an organization

to follow up on that with the shippers panel,
where there was there anythingthat they talked about that you
guys aren't doing, that you'regoing to implement. When you get

Unknown (16:16):
back off the top of my head, I can't think of anything,
right? And it's been a longcouple of days, so it's very
likely that there was. I havequite a quite a few notes. I
think, you know, one of thethings that we have to do we we
work on and discuss velocity asa sales organization, right?

(16:39):
Pipeline, moving things throughthe pipeline. I think we've got
to do a better joborganizationally. And again,
this is bringing marketing andsales together, right, to make
sure that we're having nurturingcampaigns that, again, that are
authentic, that are genuine,right? Maybe incorporating some
of the video tools, right? Maybeincorporating some of these

(16:59):
other, other things out there,but that we're that we're
talking to people, and we're notlosing fact that some of our
ideal clients may take two orthree years to close, right? And
so I think that that's justthat's part of the learning
lesson. So I think giving itmore time and making sure we're
committed to we need to closeand we need to close regularly,

(17:21):
right? All of us do. That's howyou keep the lights on. It's how
you keep the business growing,but making sure that there's an
understanding that that the timeit takes means that if you don't
plant the tree today, right,you're not harvesting the fruit
for a long time, right?

There was another part of that discussion
that I think is being missed bya lot of companies, it's when
they talked about their backoffice and how you need to be
marketing your back officecapabilities if you want to take
on a new shipper. I thought thatthat was fascinating, and it
also opened up the door, becauseone of the other talks was
Cassandra Gaines talking aboutfraud and using your your fraud

(17:57):
prevention tools as part of yourmarketing. And I don't think
anybody, there was one person,Patrick from its logistics,
raised his hand as the onlycompany in the room as marketing
their fraud prevention. And thatwas such a That, to me, is like
one of those little like homeruns that you can implement as
soon as you get back. And so formaybe for any of y'all, are

(18:20):
there any of these tactics ortools that you're not using yet
that you can't wait to implementwhen you get

Unknown (18:27):
back? Oh, I had a little bit of exposure to a
couple people who were showingme their AI agent teams, and
that like, blew my mind in thesense that I was like, This is
so exciting and I'm terrified.
Well, how did it break down?
What is it so, I mean, he wasshowing me that he has an entire

(18:49):
team pretty much assigned forevery client, and he names the
agents, and here's the directorof the agents and the manager,
and nothing gets to him thatdoesn't get past the manager
through the director, butthey're all prompts and cues and
rules and responsibilities. Imean, he was literally showing
me how he created a year ofcontent in 12 seconds, and from

(19:11):
soup to nuts. Like, here's myideas, create them, post them,
schedule them, find images. So Idon't know. I think everyone
kind of feels the same way. Ithink we all know that there's
like a moment right now when youeither get on the bus or you're
gonna be left behind, but Iwould say in back office type of
stuff, that was, like the onething that I was in not specific

(19:33):
to this industry, but I feelpretty confident saying there's
not a lot of companies in thisindustry doing anything like
that. For the record, he was amarketer, so for with an agency,
oh, that's

super interesting, because it's almost
like a video game that you'remanaging these little characters

Unknown (19:48):
Exactly. And he talked about it the way I would be
like, Oh, you need a new job.
You'll talk to Brittany, andthen she'll get with Jessica on
my team. And he's like, Yeah, Igot Cleo doing this. And then he
passes it to Ingrid. And then.
She sends it to her manager, butthey're agents. They don't
exist. Just wild. That's

that's interesting. I've tried building
an agent, and it took me to do aspecific task, but it took me
longer to try to build the agentthan it would to do the damn
task. So I just stopped. I waslike, I'm not ready for this
yet,

Unknown (20:18):
for routine, repetitive tasks, right? Like we do a lot
of document collection pod thatwas something mentioned in the
shipper panel, bring your pod,get your pod. For the love of
God, I need your pod, right?
Like routine, regular documentcollection, things like that.
There, it's a great area, right?
And, and we're scratching thesurface there. I'd say we're a
little bit beyond scratching thesurface. We've implemented some

(20:41):
of that at Mohawk, and it'sfantastic going back to the to
the like, to the the fraudpanel.
Oh, sorry, that was the originalquestion. Oh,

no, no, no. It

Unknown (20:54):
was like there was what you could bring away. Oh yes,
yes, okay. Were you not there?
Did you like? Did you miss yousleeping? Time, yeah, you know,
freight, we all spend anenormous amount of time trying
to de commoditize ourselves,right? That is literally our

(21:16):
job, right? Is to say that ourrice is better than your rice,
right? Like, even though it'sall kind of the same rice,
right? And to miss, you know,for me, to look myself in the
eye and realize that we missedsomething like advertising our
fraud prevention, knowing we'regoing through that, right? Was a
huge wake up call. And it's soit's not just, it's not just for

(21:37):
me, fraud prevention, it'sinventorying everything that we
do as an operation. We haveincredible people doing
incredible things and seeingwhere we can create stories,
seeing where we can createpoints of differentiation for
ourselves, and even if it's nota huge differentiator for

(21:59):
everybody, making sure we'recalling it out so people know
that we are there and doing it.
So really, really cool part ofthe

conversation. I love when shippers drop those
marketing nuggets like this iswhat we want to see. And so do
more of this. RJ, I want to goback to you about the sort of AI
conversation, because that wasone topic that I don't know that
we had a singular focus on,which might be the first
conference I've seen that didn'thave a AI specific talk. But I

(22:30):
think that more speaks to AIjust infiltrating every part of
our lives where maybe we don'tneed a dedicated talk on it,
because it's part of everyconversation. Anyways, I would
love to know, like, how are youthinking about AI and using it?
I know you've used a little bitof it, how are you implementing
it, and how are you thinkingabout it

Unknown (22:48):
for the future? So I think the good thing with AI
right now is it speeds up a lotof workflow process, workflow
processes, and you can be reallyefficient if you have a lot of
repetitive tasks that need to bedone. I think what the bridge
that are, what I'm trying to gapwith, AI is creating that
authenticity and humaninteraction, like touch, right?

(23:11):
And in order to do that, I'mfinding you need to have real
data, and whether that data isfrom a form submission, phone
call, conversations,transcripts, things like that.
AI is he can train it toessentially do anything you want
you, just like any human. Itjust comes down to language and
being able to convey, okay, thisis this. This is this is how a

(23:33):
shipper speaks. This is how abroker speaks. This is x, y, z.
So how can we bridge the gapbetween speed, but then also
quality and office authenticity,so I find that's what I've kind
of been working on. Like, Ishouldn't even be saying this,
but like, a lot of my job is,like, almost automated, right?
Like I have good systems andprocesses, right? A lot of the
marketing tasks not talking toclients or anything like that,

(23:55):
or team members, but a lot of mymarketing processes I have
automated, been able to free upa lot of my time to learn and
expand a little bit more indifferent fields and different
types. What it's for Exactly,right? So I think that's the
next step with AI as peoplelearn and integrate into their
systems. And it's pretty coolthat we didn't even have to talk
about it this year, because Ithink last year we talked about

(24:17):
it quite a bit, but then nowit's just like, it's one of
those things that it's justadopted by everybody. They know
you have to eventually have itsome form of it doesn't have to
be, you know, your whole entiremodel, but you know, you gotta
at least sniff it. You gotta atleast be aware of it. So, yeah,
that's the way I'm looking atit.

Well, RJ, I don't you're in a very similar
place as I was when I was inhouse marketing at a three PL
that I think, you know, for alot of other marketers that are
here, where you are essentiallythe conductor of the orchestra.
And the thing with nowadays isthat you can use these tools to
help you play all of theseinstruments, instead of trying

(24:53):
to rely on getting the time andthe bandwidth to do it yourself.
Are there any strategies thatyou think. That more freight
companies should be adoptedbecause you guys, I mean, I'm
biased when I say this, but Ilove SP eyes marketing, the way
that they partner with podcastslike this one, and then you are
able to take that kind ofcontent and put it on like
steroids for us. So what are youthinking about in the future

(25:16):
that more freight companiesshould be doing? That's

Unknown (25:20):
a good question. I mean, I honestly would like,
it's hard, it's hard for me toanswer that, because I would
then have to go into Mohawkglobal, see what they're doing,
go into CS regret, see whatyou're doing, to really
understand what is happening.
But I think for every freight,like, I guess freight or
logistics company, I think, Ithink it would really come down

(25:42):
to, how are you, how are youresearching, right? AI can save
you a lot of time when it comesdown to research, not
necessarily personality and, youknow, picking up the phone call,
but even when I was talking toyou about, you know,
researching, you know, what typeof content, what? What are
people searching on forums, onReddit, Quora, things like that.
Like, the information is outthere. How can you get it

(26:05):
quickly, and how can you beefficient in order to speak to
your target audience, opposed tobeing, you know, a wide fish and
a wide net? I'm not sayingeverybody is doing that, but I
think a lot of logisticscompanies, they would benefit
from being able to use theresearch tools to be able to
really hone in on, okay, whatare people actually searching
for, for my company, what arepeople talking about coming

(26:27):
right? Your brand is what theywhat they say you are, not what
you think it is right, and thenbeing able to really just answer
those questions. Because I wasshocked, even just looking at
some of the questions on likewell, freight broker questions
on Quora and Reddit, four Chan,all these random channels. And I
was like, Oh, this is a goldlandmine because one people are
looking it up. And then also youposition yourself as authority,

(26:50):
right? And as soon as you're theauthority position, right? Who
are you gonna believe TimmyJohn's shoe company about
running? Or are you gonnabelieve Nike? Right? Position
yourself as authority, and thenthat's also how you bring in
traction and get more customersand your ideal client and all
that, once you build thatrelationship.

It's extremely insightful. Yeah, well, on the
on the sales side of things,because marketing is, you know,
they have obviously, an insanelychallenging job where they're
trying to manage a bunch ofthings, and they probably got a
lot of irons in the pot. Whatabout on the sales side of
things? Because you'vementioned, I sat on one of the
talks with spark change labsthat they were able to do a live
demo with you and get thestructure of your sales team

(27:29):
versus your marketing team andhow people can improve that
communication gap between them.
Yeah. Great session. So shoutout to Lee and Beth for managing
that one. And one of the thingsI think you said was managing
the hunters versus thegatherers, and then getting the
marketing team, you know, muchmore familiar with the roles of
each of what the sales peopleare doing. How are you
implementing that now? Or isthat something you're going to

(27:51):
implement in the future?

Unknown (27:53):
We're in the process of segregating. We have segregated
our sales and accountmanagement. It involved
compensation restructuring,which we believe we we could, we
have done, without affectinganybody, right? But the sources
of compensation growth versusretention, right? And we've
worked to get some of the peoplethat were maybe doing more

(28:16):
farming on the sales side of therole into account management
roles where they're absolutelythriving. So that's that's been
an evolution, right? And that'ssomething, I don't think it's
particularly unique, right? It'ssomething, it's something unique
to Mohawk, as we go, as we go onour growth journey, right from a
regional company to amultinational company, it's
something, it's something that'shad to be done. But at the same

(28:38):
time, I think where we have towork harder is to make sure that
marketing is one of the numberone suggestions that came out of
the Spark Lab. And I thought itwas really cool. We have an
opportunity to make sure thatboth marketing and sales work
together right to accomplish agoal. And I think one of the
things that we came out of therewas, for example, building a

(29:00):
target list for marketing andsales to collaborate on jointly,
and let some of the creativesfrom our marketing team, like,
like, our sales guys use some ofthe cold calling, right? You
know, knocking on doors, right?
Emails, they're doing a lot ofthat stuff. Let our marketing
people run wild, right? Maybethey land a hot air balloon at
our top prospects, right? Like,yeah.

(29:28):
You know that does not representthe Mohawk global
brand. Choose a different emoji,yes, yeah, the smiley face.
But you know, getting gettingthose teams working together,
and giving marketing some skinin the game, and reward right

(29:48):
for being able to collaborateand gain entry into some of
these key clients, and that'stransforming our marketing crew.
We have such talentedindividuals on the team who are
chomping at the bit and maybejust you. Giving them a nudge
and pointing them in a differentdirection will unleash some of
that. So that was a really coolidea that came out of that, I
think, on top of that, justmaking sure that anything we do

(30:10):
from a marketing point of viewand a sales point of view, the
teams are talking right, thatthere's a regular, routine
communication that we don't havesilos within our commercial
division, right? I think thatbreaking those down is
important. I think we do afairly good job there at Mohawk.
There's always room forimprovement, though. So yeah,
there

were definitely a lot of tips in that session,
in particular of aligning.

Unknown (30:33):
I can't wait to get the notes from it. Like, yeah,
that's like, it's really cool.

And one of the notes that somebody suggested
that you should involvemarketing in your compensation
very similar to sales. And howdo you talk about incentivizing
marketing? I mean, there rightnow, many marketers are
incentivized just to get leads.
They don't care about thequality of the leads, because
they know that they're measuredby this specific measurement.
But if you involve them in thecompensation process, I
guarantee they're going to besitting in a lot more sales,

Unknown (31:01):
absolutely, if you open the door and we convert the
commission, right? I mean, like,I mean, I don't think that
that's unreasonable, right?
There's a momentum change, and Ithink it's something that needs
to be talked about at multiplecompanies. Right at the end of
the day, it's all businessdevelopment, right? It's all
business development. We're allon the same team, and I don't
think at Mohawk, where there'sany adversarial like, but we
don't necessarily talk to eachother as well as we should or

(31:24):
could sometimes, yeah, becausethere

was definitely, there was one girl that was
like, I, you know, when it cameto, like, the fraud marketing,
she's like, I'm not doing this,but I just the light bulb
clicked for me that I should bedoing this. And so it's, you
know, it's kind of sparkingthose ideas to work more closely
together. I am curious, Charlie,on your side of things, because
you're you're really great atcompany marketing and also
personal branding, how do yousort of think about what, what

(31:49):
data matters to you, what ROImatters to you when you're
thinking about your personalbrand versus the company brand?

Unknown (31:58):
So it's that almost feels like a trick question.
She asked hard questions, like,seriously because,
like, I don't, I don't know whowants to hear this, but the
majority of the success we getfrom our branding is when we
crack the door open and show whowe are as humans and put the

(32:20):
data aside. So, you know, withmy LinkedIn and the way our
company, you know, shows up onLinkedIn, we do try and separate
it a little where I would say weuse more of our data from our
company. But honestly, what Itry and do a little LinkedIn,
101 secret, I'll try to ride offa good post. So three weeks ago,

(32:44):
four weeks ago, I posted agallon of orange juice and had a
story about how I overpaid forit, and I think it has 100,000
views. Oh my gosh. Like dumb andreally dumb. But then the next
day, that's when I'm gonna now,I have all this attention, and
people are coming and commentingand coming and checking the
comments back to them. That'swhen I'm going to post the data.

(33:06):
I want them to see that, youknow what I talk about a lot is
just, you know, unengagement,disengagement, disengagement,
and what we should be doing astalent leaders for recruiting
and retention. So that's where Istart to I almost drop the data
in. The data does not get theirattention. Once I have their
attention through a ridiculousstrategy, I use the data to,

(33:28):
kind of, you know, that's reallywhat I'm there for, is

keep those posts, like, kind of parked,
like the data more focused post,you keep them kind of parked for
when a post takes offunexpectedly, like,

Unknown (33:41):
I try, yes, I am very fluid. I mean, people don't
realize, like, I write thoseposts every single morning. Oh,
interesting. So I have, like, alibrary of ideas, but I really
keep it fluid and, like, a verygood balance, but, yeah, I don't
think the data brings them. Ithink it might keep them, but
people want humans, and that'sjust that was another, you know,

(34:02):
theme here is especially withAI. We need humans, we need
emotions, we need creativity, weneed judgment. And that is
really what people want to knowabout other people before they
do business with them. So Ithink it was Bill on the from
quick creed on the shipperpanel. He's like, You want my
freight crack the door a littlebit every time we engage. Like,

(34:26):
don't just come and hit me witha sales pitch. So that's the
human side of our business.

No, that's really well said, and a great
reminder, because I think for alot of marketers there, they try
to present data to the executiveteam. And I don't know, maybe,
RJ, you've experienced thisbefore. I know I have, when I'm
presenting the data like reallygood metrics that I know are
good metrics, and they have noidea what any of that data
means. Yeah. So I think it'slike trying to think about the

(34:52):
ways to speak to that audienceand speak to that executive to
get that executive buy in, ispresenting them with data that
they care about. And you. Can'tmake it too complicated,
otherwise, it's just third

Unknown (35:03):
grade. I mean, like, it's kind of unrelated, but I
saw like, a meme earlier todaythat, and it was just satire,
but it was like, you know, ifyou this is one way to advertise
or create a news story, let'ssay 100 ton asteroid is gonna
hit Earth, and that's, you know,that's the headline, or an
Astra, an asteroid bigger than100 elephants is going to hit

(35:26):
Earth. And the way that we thinkof that is, like, what's 100
tons? I don't even know whatthat is, but 100 elephants like,
so it's just dumbing it down. Imean, there are a lot of times I
will use AI and be like, explainthis to me, like, I'm a third
grader, and that's, you know,that's the easiest way to
communicate. It is, yeah,

that's a really great example. Anthony, what
about you? What kind of maybedata points is your maybe
marketing or sales teampresenting to you that makes
sense to you?

Unknown (35:52):
You know, I we use a lot of very fundamental right?
We use, we use time and funneltime, like, like, average days,
lead cycle, right? We look atconversion rates, we look at
time. And I, you know, for me,the challenge is always
balancing what the data tells mewith what I know our people are

(36:14):
really doing, like data is, Idon't run the business on data,
right? Like, I can't. I havesome really hard working people
that have ups and downs and havegood weeks and bad weeks, so I
tend to really look at thetotality of everything. So I'm
not saying throw it out. It'simportant to monitor right? And

(36:37):
there's probably areas that wecould get better, right? But if
you look at my like leadershipprofile, if you take one of
those things, I tend to lead bythe gut, right? My boss, Mike,
great guy. He tends to leavewithout us. So some of that has
to be there, right? And we can,we can kind of come together and
have conversations. But youknow, I think we're looking at

(37:00):
your typical right leads,conversion rate, MQL, SQL, right
on down the pipeline. We're notvery unique in that area. That's
because I'd rather focus myattention. I like my favorite
thing to do is to go out and getwith our salespeople and ride
out in the cars and go talk tocustomers, right? And that's

(37:21):
what most of our executiveteam's favorite thing is to do,
and that's where you get thereal pulse of what's happening.
And that's where you see wherethe real challenges are, and
that's where you see where youhave opportunities for coaching
development, or where you've gotsomebody that's just knocking it
out of the park. And you knowthe business is going to come,
right? Whether, they're in aslump, it's going to come. And

(37:43):
so that's kind of how we do it.
We try to, I try not to overcomplicate it.
It's interesting how that feedsright into marketing, because
it's, you know, you being out inthe field, you are being exposed
to problems that may have notcome back upstream to you.
You're the shipper problems.
That's now part of your intentstrategy, and being able to lead
with marketing by focusing ontheir pain points. And I think

(38:06):
that's a hard thing as a leader.
The further you get removed fromthe business, it's like the
micro stuff that we need tolatch onto for a campaign or
whatnot,

yeah. What are those early wins, which might be
a great question. RJ, what wouldmaybe in a lot of the content
that you're creating, are thoseearly signals that you're like
this piece of content is goingto really work? Or how do you
what data maybe is important toyou from a marketing metric
standpoint?

Unknown (38:34):
So I guess the the way I look, kind of look at data,
and then also the way I kind ofexplain it to people that might
be a little bit higher up aswell, is, I really just look at
it as, like, ego, right? I cansay conversions, KPI, you know,
bounce rate all this kind ofjazz, and say, Yeah, we got 78%
all this kind of jazz. And,yeah, it might seem great, but

(38:54):
at the end of the day, it'sreally about playing the ego and
understanding, you know,breaking it down in scenarios
that they'll be able tounderstand. But then also, I
find one of the easiest ways toalso communicate with data is
almost, when there's success,you're almost communicating it
like it's their idea, right? Sowhen we have a really good, you

(39:16):
know, a podcast episode andwe're getting lots of views and
things like that, it wasn't myidea that to, you know, sponsor
any podcast or anything. Thatwas Mike Michalak, shout out, my
boss, right? But part of theexecution, though, was being
able to, you know, position itproperly in front of the
audience and then looking at,okay, what is the data point?
What's the watch? What are thewatch time hours, things like

(39:37):
that, right? Well, then I'llsay, hey, you know, it was a
great idea that, you know, yousponsored Blythe, we talked
about this, x, y, z, when wetalked about our last meeting,
right? So then I don't have tosay all this, like, hey, you
know, we had a conversion rateof this. And you know, our watch
time is down 20, 30% right? Sothat's kind of how I present
data, especially with those thatmight not be as technically
sound. So ego, and then alsotrying to frame things more as.

(40:00):
Their idea, because then you'remore likely to get buy in and
future yeses when you pitchanother idea. So then it's not
just like, Hey, can I have moremoney for this? Oh, well, I
don't even understand the thingyou just told me, right? So

yeah, I think, and you work so well, I think
with the executive team too,especially like on the finance
side of things, and that'ssomething that a lot of
marketers just, frankly, aren'tthat good at but you need to be.
And I think with the economictimes that we sort of live in
now and those differentchallenges, you have to be able
to provide some kind of value ina way that makes sense to get
that buy in Exactly. All right,last couple questions here,

(40:33):
because I know that everybodywants to kind of get out of
here. I Okay, what I do have aquestion just sort of like
overall, like industryassociations. What kind of value
do you think that industryassociations provide in sort of
a modern day world?

Unknown (40:54):
I'll say I think they all serve different purposes in
the sense, and maybe this is oneof the reasons we all enjoy this
conference. And the crowd is noone's trying to close you here
or sell you Well, there werethree shippers. I'm sure they
got bombarded or and then maybethe South by Southwest people.

(41:15):
But when you go to otherindustry conferences, you know
it's either, it's very rarely,everything it's I'm going for
education, I'm going forbusiness, I'm going for
partnerships. But here there is,I don't sense that there is,
that is the focus for anyonelike they may get business out
of this. They may start to builda relationship that turns into

(41:37):
something. But I truly feel likethis association is to learn, to
network, to grow, to buildrelationships, to make friends,
I mean, in a strange way, thatis a big part of the business.
So I think they all serve adifferent piece. And you know,
for me as a recruiter, it's justas important for me to go and
learn about what my clients aredoing, versus actually way

(41:59):
prefer a conference like thisthan a conference where I just
have to be like, Yeah, onexactly right. I have to stay I
have to stay in check. No, just,I don't want to hard sell anyone
when I meet them for the firsttime. That's not my goal.

Yeah, that's very well said. What about you
guys? What kind of maybe inaddition to TMSA, or maybe how
TMSA is relevant to otherdifferent industry associations,
that maybe you're a part of

Unknown (42:27):
you personally. Yeah, I mean, TMSA is my favorite, like,
it's clearly the place that Icome and enjoy and learn and
decompress a little bit and havea good time, where we also tend
to get involved, are areas inthe industry where we can
provide thought leadership andand demonstrate our thought

(42:51):
leadership. So we have quite afew of our one of the, you know,
one of our go to marketstrategies is bringing expertise
to our client. We're a flatorganization, easy to talk to,
right? Not trying to sell here,but you know, like and that
means that, you know, our VicePresident, head of compliance,
is active in ncbfaa, right? Andis there and is speaking

(43:11):
regularly at those events. RichRoach is on the federal Maritime
Commission, right? Worked to putthe rules together for or he's
not on the actual commission.
He's on the advisory board. He'snot on the actual commission,
although he should be, right.
And, you know, he worked to putOstra together, which dealt with
the excessive detention anddemurrage practices that we've

(43:32):
seen, right? And so we do a lotof stuff that enables us to get
out there, and we bring our youknow, if you think about our
consulting group, our Mohawkglobal trade advisors, where we
have consultants on tradepolicy, we bring a lot of people
to like trade oriented events,so that they can learn, so that
we can build their knowledge, sothat we're building the future

(43:53):
leaders of tomorrow. From asales point of view, I'm not a
big conference guy, right? Like,we go to some, you know, my we,
I was talking about this lastnight with somebody, right? We
have some people in our company.
We do a lot of furniturebusiness, so we have some people
that will go to the furnitureshow in Vegas, but they're not

(44:14):
going to find customers. They'regoing because they can meet with
20 of our customers at one time,right? And so they go and do
that, and it's they can bring acouple of people out to dinner,
and it's just, it's a nice,convenient way to do that.
Typically, you know,conferences, industry events,
the big ones, you know, I tendto get lost in the shuffle with
the bigger events and thingslike that, you know. And then

(44:37):
other conferences. We don't goto sell to people. We go to the
other Trans Pacific that the TPMwe go to. We have to be there as
an NVOCC, right? Our clients arethere and we go. But even then,
it's all about bringing ourclients out to dinner after,
right, things like that. It'sabout

building relationships and upskilling.
Sounds like so. Bar, is thatvery similar to you? RJ,

Unknown (45:01):
yeah, for sure, I think definitely one of the things
TMSA has helped me is when Ijoined the industry. Yeah, two
years ago. Wow, time flies. WhenI joined it, like two years ago,
it I knew nothing aboutlogistics. I still don't, right,
but I am, none of us do, but Iam better equipped than I am
now, and I can confidently talkabout certain things that I

(45:23):
would be absolutely zip tightabout my first time around, and
then also just being part of thecommittee recognition and being
active and getting involved. Wegot our website rebrand done in
my first year at SPI, and one ofthe ways I was able to do that
was one of the committeemembers. She also had her
website done, and she actuallyshared her numbers with me on
the improvements. That was also,that also helped me sell the

(45:44):
exec team on getting the websitedone. We did need it, though. It
wasn't, you know, we did,actually, it was just
seen it exactly. But it'sjust one of those things, right,
just meeting the right people atthe right time. But then also,
like, when you the newcomersreception people are like, I've
never worked with logistics,right? And then you're just
right? And then you're justlike, okay, you know, I'm not a
I don't have that. What's thatterm imposter syndrome, right?

(46:06):
Like, you know, here I am. Yeah,I can do marketing, but can I do
it in logistics? I don't know,right? So I think that's what's
been really valuable. It'shelped with my knowledge,
touched with being able to also,oh, an agent, he wanted some
service that we just don'toffer. And then I've already met
two or three people that areable to do that, that I can say,
hey, I can do an emailintroduction, you know. And
hopefully you guys can connectfrom there. But I now don't have

(46:27):
to say no or something, or hey,no, that's not within our scope,
right? So it's really, it'sreally amazing, in that sense,
that you can really almost bethe go to person, not just for
your company, but then alsoanyone else that you build a
relationship with and expandyour knowledge.

It's making your profile much more valuable
too, not just for yourself andfor maybe future, you know, jobs
or maybe career endeavors thatyou would want to pursue. But
it's also within the companyitself. I think that you're
helping them upskill and growwith you as well. And it's kind
of it's kind of crazy how inthis how much technology has
come into this world and comeinto this space in particular,

(47:04):
and then now we're what are wetalking about, in person events?
And another one I heard was thepower of referrals and just
asking your best customers, andthese simple things that maybe a
lot of us just forget in whenwe're trying to keep up with all
of the different things. Sospeaking of like all of the
different things, kind of last,final questions here, what is

(47:29):
one thing that you can't wait todo whenever you get home, when
it comes to marketing or saleswith your company

Unknown (47:35):
from this event or just in general, just in general,

maybe it's conversations that you had with
people here, something youlearned in one of the sessions.
What's one thing you can't waitto kind of try out whenever you
get back?

Unknown (47:48):
Yeah, I'll definitely say, because we are freight
brokers, and a lot of our mainclients are freight agents, I
think the big thing is, I had noidea that shippers were
interested in looking at thefraud and security and panels,
things like that. Honestly, Ithought, I mean, I'm a lady on I
was like, white papers are lame.
I'm not gonna make a whitepaper, but you guys are looking
at it, so I should alsointegrate it on top of the video

(48:09):
strategy and the contentstrategy that we're doing right
provide different models of howSPI is fighting fraud and
different partners. We have tonot only strengthen SPI, but
then also help our agents aswell when shippers go check them
out. So I think that's somethingI'm looking forward to. It's a
different challenge, like,again, I'm not a fraud expert by
any means, but it's gonna forceme to do some research. Gonna
force me to ask around and gofrom there.

Awesome. Yeah.
What about you?

Unknown (48:33):
Charlie? Yeah. I think something we've been struggling
with is, you know, we recruitacross the entire industry, but
what we find is that what ourclients use us for the first
time becomes their perception ofwhat we do. So if we work with a
shipper and fill an inventorymanager role, they come to us
when they have inventory jobs,when we work with a three PL

(48:55):
they come to us for freightbrokers. And we've started to
really like have theseconversations with our clients
and realize our freight youknow, freight brokerages don't
even realize we could servicetheir shippers and the power of
those types of introductions. SoKate's speech, the keynote,
really resonated with me. Just,I'm gonna recap her three

(49:17):
things, but the 15 secondelevator pitch, she just made it
so simple. And I think we likepound our heads over this, but
what do you do? How can yousolve my problem, and how are
you different? And so that'swhat I want to go home. And
actually, I might do it tonight.
I might ask chatgpt. It knows mepretty well, so I might, I might
go to my room and figure thatout tonight, if I'm motivated.

(49:38):
But it was just so simple, theway she positioned it, and I
think a lot of eyes in the roomlit up, which is crazy for a
room of marketers that knows howto push pain points, and

it's almost like you need to be reminded.
Sometimes you get so lost, maybein the weeds of everything
that's going on, that sometimesit's just back to the basics and
all aspects of business. But.
About you, Anthony, what's thething you're

Unknown (50:01):
gonna jump into that you mentioned you were on the
recognition committee thatawards was It was spectacular to
see what those other companies,and especially the rising stars,
are doing in theirorganizations. Was really cool
to see. Like, so sorry for thelittle aside there.
I just want to comment. Andobviously, like, as I was
reading those nominations, someof the impressions were wild,

(50:24):
like some of the social media,millions and millions, just like
the awareness for the truckingindustry, very cool. Yeah, great
job.
Yeah. So I really thought thatthat was cool and very
inspirational, right? Just to goback and look at who run awards
and why that's something that wecan do, right? Like, and think
about that. I already talkedabout, we already talked about
spark change lab, that wasreally cool right there. We're

(50:45):
going to get some ideas out ofthat. We talked a little bit
about going back based on thefraud conversation, and really
digging into our organizationand taking a second look. And I
think that this has to be aregular practice, like, like a
quarterly or a six monthpractice, to say, what have we
started doing as anorganization, throughout the

(51:07):
organization, whether it's incredit and finance, whether it's
in, you know, operations,customs brokerage, whether it's
been, you know, on our airfreight product, whether it's
been in our consulting division,what have we started doing
different that we can like, weneed to shout out, and this is a
differentiator, right? So makingthat a routine part of our
process, so that when we'redoing cool stuff and our

(51:30):
organizations building towardsthe future, that we're also
communicating that out into theworld, right? So, so I think
finding some sort of schedulefor that is important. And then
last but not least, you know, Icome from a background. I had an
old boss who's only commentwhen, when funding, you know, a

(51:50):
journey to a conference orsomething like that was, was
whatever you do, take it back,right? And so taking the time.
I've got copious amount of notesto share with my teams, my
colleagues, you know, my teamand the executive team, right?
All the cool things I'velearned, right? And really share

(52:10):
with them, so that they feellike they were they got some of
this experience too, and thenthey do the same thing, you
know, when they go to Tia orother things like

that, right? I haven't actually heard of that
like but it makes a ton of take

Unknown (52:25):
it back, right?
Otherwise, it's just sitting inthis old brain, and it doesn't
last a long time there, right?
Like it starts beautiful, right?
And so much of what we do is nonmeasurable, but it's important
to the to the business and tothe people and to the teams and
just the overall development ofthe organization. So that's
something that I'm alwaysexcited to do. From a non

(52:46):
conference point of view. I'mreally excited to go home and
relax. It is

a lot.
Conferences are a lot. They'redraining. It's a lot to prep
for, it's a lot to catch up on,but it does. There's certain
aspects I think that, you know,I can probably speak for all of
y'all that you know, there arecertain things that you're going
to take away from this, and it'sgoing to have lasting impact on
the work that you do. So thankyou. Do

Unknown (53:11):
realize it's only Tuesday, right?
the working before it's evenlast week, I already had one of
those fake Thursdays where itwas really Wednesday and, like,
I had one of those last week. Solike, this week is gonna be
really long, yeah. So all right.
Well, publication time, pubtime, promo time, where can

(53:32):
folks follow each of you andconnect with each of you? Follow
me on LinkedIn, or you couldfollow CS recruiting. We are
always looking to talk to jobseekers in the industry, but I
would say right now, reallylooking to help companies hire
for any professional position.
Awesome. Yeah, you can check outour company, LinkedIn page, SPI

(53:53):
Logistics, and your website,yeah, and our website, there you
go. Also, we're quite active onYouTube. If you're looking for
any educational type logisticscontent. That's where you can
get in touch and learn.
You can follow me on LinkedIn.
You can follow Mohawk global onLinkedIn to keep up with all the
latest news in the industry. Andthere's been a lot of it
specifically regarding tariffs.

(54:14):
I think we're really leading theindustry there on keeping our
clients up to date on tariffs.
So if you want to know what'sgoing on there, please, please
log in. We have some other coolstuff coming out. One of the
things that I did want to throwout there video, that's like, we
have to move into video. And Imet some really cool providers,
and it's always inspiring to seewhat you do, Blythe, and your
presence online, and things likethat, and and so I always walk

(54:35):
away from here saying, this isthe time for video. And I think,
I think I have a path now,right? So anyway, LinkedIn,
humans on the video, not AI. Iwas gonna use claymation. Okay,
someonedid show me a video they made
that was, you know, it was aperson, but it wasn't a real

(54:58):
person. They just made them up.
Yeah, and they are talking anddelivering a speech as if
they're human. That's anywouldn't know what, yeah,
because it's getting so good.
And how can you, how can you domore with less? And some of
these programming, I mean, itwhat's important? Yeah,

I can't come soon enough. I wish I could
clone myself, but I guess I'mgoing to have to do what the AI
agents are doing, clone certainparts.

Unknown (55:33):
She's already on the beach. Her background is fake
what you see on LinkedIn, yeah.
Actually laying

really good mics, and you can't hear the
wind and sand is a little bit ofan issue, though, we'll have to
work. Thank you so much forsticking I know it's the end of
the conference, so thank you allfor tuning in and being

Unknown (55:52):
a part of the discussion. Thank
you for having us. Thank you.
Yeah, that was fun.

Thanks for tuning in to another episode of
everything is logistics, wherewe talk all things supply chain.
For the thinkers in freight, ifyou like this episode, there's
plenty more where that camefrom. Be sure to follow or
subscribe on your favoritepodcast app so you never miss a
conversation. The show is alsoavailable in video format over
on YouTube, just by searchingeverything is logistics. And if

(56:21):
you're working in freightlogistics or supply chain
marketing, check out my company,digital dispatch. We help you
build smarter websites andmarketing systems that actually
drive results, not just vanitymetrics. Additionally, if you're
trying to find the right freighttech tools or partners without
getting buried in buzzwords,head on over to cargorex.io
where we're building the largestdatabase of logistics services

(56:44):
and solutions. All the links youneed are in the show notes. I'll
catch you in the Next episodeand go jags. You.

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