March 13, 2025 • 28 mins
Freight brokers waste hours on missed calls and rate negotiations. What if AI could handle those conversations instantly?
Roger Boza, Chief Technology Advisor at CloneOps, explains how AI-powered voice agents are transforming brokerage operations. From real-time rate negotiations to eliminating phone call bottlenecks, Boza breaks down how AI streamlines freight without replacing human brokers.
Key Topics Covered:
• Agentic AI vs. Automation – What’s the difference?
• AI-powered phone conversations – Faster, more efficient freight booking
• Rate negotiation in real-time – No more missed calls or lost deals
• Keeping brokers in control – How sentiment analysis ensures a human touch
• Security and compliance – Why AI in freight must be trustworthy and scalable
"You don’t go on hold. You don’t get frustrated. AI can negotiate rates in real-time—so brokers and carriers don’t waste time playing phone tag." – Roger Boza
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
Welcome
Blythe Brumleve (00:05):
into another episode of everything is
logistics, a podcast for thethinkers and freight. I'm your
host. Blythe Milligan. We areproudly presented by SPI
logistics, and we've got ourfirst live interview at
manifest, the future of supplychain and logistics. We've got
Roger Boza with clone ops.ai.
Brand new partner to theeverything is logistics podcast,
so you'll be hearing a lot morefrom them in the future. But
(00:26):
Roger, welcome
Unknown (00:28):
to the show. Thank you.
Blythe, very nice to be herenow. What is your role within
clone ops? I'm
Roger Boza (00:33):
the CTA Chief Technology Advisor. Advisor.
Okay, yes. So I'm the bridgebetween the CEO David Bell and
our CTO Sasha and so how did youget into logistics? It's
actually a funny story. One ofmy cousins is married to David
Bell's nephew. So when Daviddecided to start clone ops and
(00:55):
do this whole agentic AI for thelogistical transportation
industry, you know, they werehaving a lunch. I get together.
He was talking to his nephews,like, hey, look, I'm excited
about this new company, this newtype of technology. And, you
know, it's going to be full onAI conversations. And Jacob goes
like, hey, we have somebody inthe extended family, which he
(01:15):
has. He's getting a PhD onartificial intelligence. You got
to meet him. He's really, youknow, intelligent, and let's see
if you guys pan out. So we had acouple of meetings, a couple of
conversations. I love David, hismentality, his outlook on the
technology's face. And he'slike, Roger, if you're the one
that I need to help us bridgethe technology AI and the
transportation industry.
Unknown (01:36):
That's awesome. I didn't know that they made PhDs
for AI yet, but it'sactually for computer science.
But when you write yourdissertation, you pick a topic,
and I focus on my wholedissertation on AI, on two
parts, computer vision andnatural language processing.
Okay,
Blythe Brumleve (01:49):
so let's get into to AI. What is sort of, I
guess, the status quo of AI andlogistics, because there's a lot
of, I think, misunderstandingof, is it automation? Is it
artificial intelligence? Give ussort of the landscape, the eagle
eye view,
Unknown (02:02):
all right? So I'm going to start out with, what is
intelligence, right? Becausethis whole word, AI, artificial
intelligence, a big buzz. Butintelligence, and there's a
couple of famous quotes, is, youknow, the ability to adapt, to
change, right? A little bit moreformally, for artificial
intelligence, is when you'reusing computer science skills,
algorithms and techniques tomimic human behavior. So with
(02:26):
that being said, there's a bigdifference between automation,
which is when you got a set ofprocesses and you're trying to
execute them, one after theother using some type of
software, but there's nointelligence. There's no
predictive power. There is noforecasting involved. It's just
a set of rules, and you'readvancing forward. Now AI, when
you start implementing that, iswhen you have that predictive
(02:49):
capability to make betterdecisions.
Blythe Brumleve (02:52):
So how does, how does that fit into what
clone Ops is, is doing now,because it, you know, there are
a couple of No, just AI focusedlogistics companies that have
entered the market hererecently. And I think it's, for
me, it's kind of tough to tell,like, Okay, how what is the
landscape of what AI looks like?
How can I apply this to mybusiness? I think there was a
(03:14):
quote that David said in aninterview. He said, I wish I
could clone myself, and that'show the company name came about,
and that's how the operationscame about. So tell us a little
bit about so
Unknown (03:26):
clone OP is focused on phone conversations, to automate
them, streamline them. And whatis trying to do is any phone
operation that deals with arepetitive task, something that
is very monotonous, boring, butit's low risk and high value. We
get clones for clone ops, right,to try to duplicate and mimic
what a rep would actually do inthat conversation.
Blythe Brumleve (03:48):
And so it's a lot of like the brokers. Is it
just broker specific? No,
Unknown (03:52):
it doesn't have to be just for brokers. We're
targeting brokers right nowbecause they're the first ones
that have want this, right? Thatthey love the idea. And I have
personally seen a broker put aload on that board, and within a
minute, he had five calls. Nowhe can only pick up one. He
tries to negotiate a rate, andit might be successful, but it
might not come down to nothing.
So he wasted the time. He looksat his caller ID, he's calling
(04:14):
back the next one, but hedoesn't pick up or he already
got a load from somebody else.
So this is where the agentic AI,the conversational AI, comes in.
Nobody goes on hold. Those fivecalls come in. It picks up for
all five of them, and it beginsthe negotiation. When one of
them actually is successful, itdisengages the other ones in
(04:34):
real time. It tells reallylisten that load is already
booked. You know, better lucknext time. And for the one that
actually had a rate negotiationsuccessful, a confirmation is
sent to their email, and then itproceeds.
Blythe Brumleve (04:47):
So what does it look like, I guess, from a user
perspective, if I'm going towork, I'm a freight broker, I
have clone ops like, what doesit look like during my work day?
Is it a dashboard? Yes,interface that I'm using,
Unknown (05:02):
it is a very interactive dashboard, so we
wanted to make it very userfriendly, easy to use. In fact,
one of the things that we'redoing is self onboarding. You
go, you create your account, youlog in, you're gonna see a
marketplace where we have someof the AI agents already
configured. That way you can hitthe floor running. You see one
that you like, let's say thatyou wanted to carry yourselves
doing renegotiation and loadbooking. You will hire that one,
(05:25):
and it starts workingimmediately. Now, if you have a
TMS that you want to integrateto pull in the load information
and the carrier verification, weintegrate with a couple of them,
including highway for carrierverification, but you put your
credentials in there to get theAPI access, and the agent is
live. So next time somebodycalls a phone number provision
(05:46):
by the AI, it picks up andstarts the conversation and
negotiating the rate. And if yougot 1015, 20 calls, I'm not
saying that you want to look at20 calls at the same time, but
the system tracks all the calls,and you can pick a subset of
them, you put them in your onyour live dashboard, and you're
just looking at them going on.
Now. The idea here is to be ableto intervene, to have a human in
(06:06):
the loop with a takeoverfunctionality. We are the first
ones doing that now. And infact, we actually have a we went
after a patent for for it,because what you want to do is
one of those conversations isgoing either extremely bad,
right? You know, the customer isscreaming at the AI agent. It
doesn't understand that he'shaving a hard time. It just
doesn't like the technology. Youdon't want to wait for that to
(06:29):
be transferred to a human rep.
If you're looking at thedashboard, right, and you're
monitoring that, you just takeover the call, you step in and
you mend the situation. Oh, so
Blythe Brumleve (06:38):
you almost have to, this is like a second
screen, so you're working on thesame dashboard. You just switch
tabs, yeah. Oh, good. Becauseinteresting, because I was
thinking, like, if I'm a broker,I usually have at least two
different screens. A lot of themhave four. And so maybe they're
working on, you know, theworking on their customer
relationship, and, you know,building those, you know, cold
calling, or anything like that.
And then they can watch theseagents in another screen to make
(06:59):
sure that they're doing theirjobs too. If they
Unknown (07:03):
have multiple monitors, they can be from our dashboard.
They can detach that tab and putit on a separate screen and just
monitor that live. That's crazy.
And since you mentioned coldcalls, you can have an agent
right that is doing cold calls.
You can have another agent tonegotiate the rates for you. You
can have another agent that canwork as a secretary for anybody
that calls in. It's like, hey, Ineed to book a load. It can
(07:23):
transfer you to the agent, theAI agent that does that. If it's
not available, he's not busy.
Doesn't matter, though, theinformation goes to the screen
whenever he needs. He can sitdown, he can take over, and he
sees that live transcript withkeywords and sentiment analysis
for it.
Blythe Brumleve (07:37):
Oh, wow. So is it? Is it one voice for a lot of
different customers. Or how doesthat work? Is it trained on your
own voice? We can, we
Unknown (07:45):
can clone your voice.
So there's two ways of doingthat. Yeah, we can clone your
voice. There's a fast way and aprofessional way. There's always
a trade off between accuracy andquality and speed. So if you
just want to speak for about twothree minutes, and want us to
clone your voice. We can getthat done. In fact, we can get
it done with only about 30seconds of your voice, but it's
(08:06):
not going to contain the fullrange of vocal sounds, emotions,
and then it starts soundingrobotic. With about 15 minutes
to 30 minutes, we can getsomething that, in general, most
people will say, All right, Ithink you might be an AI agent,
the robot. But the voice soundsnice. It has a good quality. So
Blythe Brumleve (08:24):
do you have maybe several voices for each
company, or is it maybe onevoice? They can
Unknown (08:29):
they can pick their own voices. We have a selection of
over about 2030, voices. Now wecan detect spoken language in 16
different languages, and we canspeak back in 32 Now, ideally we
want to have the same amount ofdetection voices as spoken
voices, but that's technologythat still needs to be improved.
Well
Blythe Brumleve (08:49):
that should I mean light bulbs are sort of
going off because for a lot ofdrivers, they speak different
languages, and not all brokersspeak all different languages.
And so I would imagine that thathelps facilitate those
conversations too,
Unknown (09:00):
correct? And once we go live, when you call to, let's
say, negotiate the rate or booka load, if you start speaking in
Spanish, the agent will greetyou and talk to you in Spanish.
If you're talking in Russian,you will have a Russian accent,
and it will talk to you inRussian. It's crazy, yeah? What
a time to be alive. And it canbe, yeah, it can be either
female or male. Wow. Okay,
Blythe Brumleve (09:21):
so what does that I guess, a typical
onboarding process look like?
How long does it take to get setup? It takes
Unknown (09:26):
a couple of minutes.
Well, you create the account.
It's a couple of steps. Typicalaccount creation, right?
Username, password, the name ofthe company, et cetera. Once the
account is created, you log ininto the dashboard, and you see
our marketplace if you see anagent that you want for your use
case or your scenario, you hirethat one, you give it the
credentials to connect to theTMS or to any other API
(09:49):
endpoints that it needs to pullin data you might have, Excel
sheets, CSV, it really doesn'tmatter. We support all of that,
but you'll connect it to thatwith our connectors and the
agents. Starts working rightthere, then, and
Blythe Brumleve (10:01):
so they integrate with all of your
different sort of software techstack, correct?
Unknown (10:06):
Yes. Wow, yeah. So what
Blythe Brumleve (10:08):
does, I guess, sort of the, what do you
envision as sort of the role ofa modern day brokerage look
like, like if I were to start abrokerage tomorrow, it sounds
like I wouldn't need a lot ofthat overhead. I could have a
lot of the help. Right off thebat, it sounds like kind of
Unknown (10:22):
a game. So this is a perfect opportunity if you want
to scale right your operationsand your business, because human
resources, they're veryexpensive, they're hard to come
by. You got to train them.
Instead of going that route,which is very difficult and
sometimes very costly, you canuse the AI agent. So what would
it look like for him? He goesin, he logs in, he sets up the
agents that he wants for hisscenarios to automate those
(10:44):
processes, and he sits down andlooks at the screen. Now, if he
gets bored, he can go and dosomething more productive. And
that's actually what we want do,something more productive, more
efficient with your time,strategic thinking, strategic
planning, and that type of
Blythe Brumleve (10:58):
things. And so what there's just so much to
because I feel like I need this,and I'm not even a broker.
Unknown (11:06):
And that's why David Bell said he wishes he could
clone himself, because it canrepresent, at least with the
modern technology that we haveright now. Even though it's not
100% perfect, and AI will neverbe 100% perfect, it can mimic a
lot of the things that you cannormally do. We're actually
working for something that isgoing to come out later in the
year, which is a virtual avatarthat one will clone your voice,
(11:27):
will clone your appearance. Andyou can even have a join a Zoom
meeting and have a conversationin the meeting for you, they can
take the notes for you, and thenit will give you the details and
the summary. What is the biggestsort of the reaction
Blythe Brumleve (11:38):
of other people who may be on the call is there
is
Unknown (11:41):
a big spectrum, and it's all over the place. Some
people are very receptive to it.
Other people really hate it.
Usually you don't want somebodyon the other side of the phone
that sounds robotic, right? Andwe have identified three things
that make it sound robotic, thevoice itself, the content that
is saying and the delay, if itspeaks too fast, or it speaks
too slow. As soon as you tellfrom any of those, like, Hey,
(12:04):
this is a robot, you disengagefrom the conversation. You get
angry, and they because they getfrustrated, right? They're like,
it might not understand me,previous interactions with AI
quote, unquote is usually very,you know, frustrating, like you
call your bank and they have anautomated response service like
press one for just yell on thephone customer support. So
(12:26):
there's this mentality that assoon as you think robot, you
have to ask for a rep, right?
Representative human, give mesome, and they start cursing at
it. So there is a big spectrum.
We see all of it, but we're nottrying to mask the voice and the
service as a human right? It'svery friendly. It's there to
help you right that way, youdon't go on hold, you don't get
(12:47):
frustrated. You can ask youquestions. You can interact with
it, right? So it's not yourtypical answering service that
it's a predefined answer to aquestion. This one will engage
in the questions for you. That'swhere the modern technology is
at with the large English modelslike GPT Gemini and the famous
ones out there.
Blythe Brumleve (13:05):
So what does, sort of, I guess, the next step
look like? So like the finalfrontier technology, and
Unknown (13:12):
that's part of the AI roadmap, right? So right now
we're targeting brokers. Are thefirst ones to, you know, to get
this type of technologyimplemented, not necessarily for
the customer forward facing, butyou know, for their regular
operations. Now eventually, thecarriers are going to get
annoyed, upset and frustratedbecause they have AI agents
coming from all over the place,and since this is all technology
(13:35):
and automated, they're going toget blasted by it. So we're
going to transition and providethem with AI agents for
carriers. So now you got abroker with an AI agent calling
a carrier, but the carrierdoesn't pick up. It's another AI
agent that picks up, and theyhave the conversation and they
negotiate the rate and dowhatever they got to do. And at
that point, we're trying to cointhe term API AI, where it says
(13:58):
AI talking to AI, doingeverything on the back end, and
you get your time to dosomething more productive. The
truckers just drive, andeverybody does what they're good
at.
Blythe Brumleve (14:08):
Because I'll be honest, that was one of my first
initial thinkings with drivers,is that they're going to hate
this, like they are just sosensitive about technology and
things like that, but if it's totheir advantage to start using
it, then I think that they wouldbe much more willing to, you
know, use this technology,because then they don't have to
do their own grunt work thatthey don't like doing, either
(14:28):
they don't
Unknown (14:29):
like talking on the phone, they don't like being on
hold. So imagine you're atrucker. You set up your AI
agent. You're interested in fouror five loads. Your agent calls
all of them at the same time.
The first one to negotiate therate that is to your advantage.
That's the first one that closesthe deal, and now you just go
make your money. What does that,
Blythe Brumleve (14:45):
I guess, sort of the price points look like
for these are you paying peragent, or it's,
Unknown (14:50):
at the moment, is per agent per minute? Okay? Yeah,
there's a lot of services thatgo behind it, but it's usually
permitted. Now we're going tohave a pricing tier. So. Right?
That, depending where you eitherpre buy the minutes, right? And
then it goes a little bit abovethat, right per minute, or, you
know, depending on the tier, isjust, you know, 2025, cents per
(15:11):
minute. Now, technology advancesvery fast, right? It actually
follows something called Moore'slaw, where the amount of, and
this gets a little technical,the amount of transistors in
CPUs double every two years.
That being said, we get fastermodels that make better
predictions. They're moreengaged and more accurate and
less expensive to train and havethat lowers the price. So
(15:32):
eventually this is going to comedown into the order of cents,
below 10 cents,
Blythe Brumleve (15:39):
yeah, because I would imagine that that's a
large problem with the coststructure right now, just paying
for all of the different tokensthat you get from all of these
different large language models.
Correct now, for companies, areyou building sort of their own
large language model for them?
Unknown (15:55):
No, it's not just for them. We do use chat GPT, but we
don't retrain that model. Now,I'll be honest, since I come
from that background trainingchat, GPT itself requires a
company like Google, Microsoftor Amazon with that amount of
resources and hundreds ofmillions of dollars, so we
couldn't retrain those models.
What we do is something calledknowledge transfer, right where
(16:16):
it has a so by the way, do youknow what GBT stands for? Is a
is a generative, free trainedtransformer. Oh, what was that
last word transformer? Oh, sowhole bunch of fancy words, but
they actually each meansomething, right? Generative,
because the AI model cangenerate content outside of its
distribution. And this is wherewe like it for AI conversations,
(16:38):
because it can generate theconversation flow, and it
follows like a humanconversation, pre trained,
meaning the model is ready touse and it has general
knowledge, right? The way totrain them is you grab a massive
corpus of text. I'm talkingabout Wikipedia pages, I'm
talking about library books. I'mtalking about websites. You grab
all that data and you feed it tothe model, you let it train with
(17:01):
it. Now, the last wordtransformer, that's just the
structure of the neural networkin there, which is very good to
handle temporal information aswell as conversation in this
case. So all of that giventogether, they're very expensive
to train. Now, once we got thatmodel, what we can do is like,
Hey, you already know somegeneral knowledge about
(17:23):
logistics, transportationconversations. You've seen it.
You train on data like that. Buthere's my specific domain right
now, logistics and stress,information and transportation.
This is how the data and how youshould behave within this sub
domain. So we transfer thatknowledge into the model, and is
now fine tuned for thesescenarios
Blythe Brumleve (17:44):
I'm just blown away at, like, how fast we got
here. Does it surprise you thatsome of this technology, like
exists, it does,
Unknown (17:51):
it does, and actually it changes everything when I
started. So my background is incomputer science, with a track
on software engineering up to mydoctor right now, which is
specializing in AI. Sorry, butback in 2016 when one of my
professors convinced me to gofor Masters and PhD, he told me,
like, Roger, you need to focuson AI, because in 10 years, and
(18:13):
this is nine years ago, in 10years, AI is going to be
mainstream. It's going to be allover the place. And if you want
to make money, study it, I don'tstudy the rest. And true enough,
it had progressed so much, andit's mainly due to technology.
Right? Hardware advancementshave been going through the
roof. They get faster, they getcheaper to use. You know, we
(18:34):
have more industries gettinginvolved into it, so we have
more resources, and everybodyyou know it's pushing to make
the technology better. How
Blythe Brumleve (18:43):
do you deal with some of, I guess, maybe the
pushbacks that you might getfrom from potential customers.
And then how do you answer tothose
Unknown (18:49):
pushbacks? What kind of pushback You mean, like, a, is
this robotic? We don't like it,or it's like a nothing along
Blythe Brumleve (18:54):
those lines, like, I know, no, I want the
personal touch. I want to keep apersonal touch with my
customers, or, you know,drivers, or something like that.
So
Unknown (19:03):
one thing that I recommend to them, and that has
actually happened to us, right?
They want that personal touch.
It sounds like give me yourconversations, right? You have
recorded conversations of youtalking to your customers. Let
me fine tune the model with thattype of information that we when
the agent is talking to it, ithas your same personality or
very close to it. So that's oneway to go about that. Another
(19:24):
way is for people that arerejecting the AI side of it,
don't try to hide it, right?
This is an AI agent trying tohelp you, right? So that, yeah,
so that you know, you don't goon hold. You can get somebody on
the phone really quick. You canget what you want other
conversation. And in our casewith clone ops, right? There's
always a human in the loop.
Somebody's always looking at adashboard ready to take over if
(19:45):
something doesn't goaccordingly. How
Blythe Brumleve (19:48):
do you know if something gets screwed up with
the agent?
Unknown (19:56):
Those are the phone questions,
Blythe Brumleve (19:58):
much like a regular employee, but. Yes, you
would want to have correctiveaction, right? Correct? Yes.
Unknown (20:03):
So one thing that we do, and I think a lot of the
competition actually does this,is called sentiment analysis,
right? So a conversation can beeither neutral, negative or
positive, right? We take it as alittle step further by also
analyzing the mood of theconversation itself. Is the mood
happy? Is that aggressive? Isthis frustrated? You know, are
(20:23):
they angry? And an additionalstep, we also analyze the voice.
Are they whispering? Are theyscreaming? Are they talking with
a regular tone? So we got thosethree metrics, and using some
clever functions, rightmathematical functions, we get a
conversation score. So that'sone of the first metrics that
you can track. And normally, ifsomething is going down south,
(20:44):
right, they're screaming right.
They're toning the voice has avery high pitch. The wording
that they use, the context isvery negative, and the mood of
it is going to be angry orupset, and that drives that
conversation score very low. Nowin our dashboard, when that
conversation score drops thatconversation comes up on the
dashboard closer to your eyewhere you're normally looking.
(21:04):
That the first couple ofconversations maybe five or six,
and it turns red, right? We havevisualizations to let you know.
Hey, something is going on here.
We also track and highlight, youknow, keywords, right? Hey,
you're not understanding me,right? That combination will
highlight certain words that areindicative of something going
wrong.
Blythe Brumleve (21:26):
I'm just stunned at this is, like, where
we're at right now, because Ifeel like I want to hire like,
10 of these for myself, and I'mnot a broker, but I do. I have
really thought about how I wouldintroduce that, how I would
disclose that. Am I going to besecretive or not? So I love that
you brought that up, that youshould be upfront with it, and
(21:46):
you should let other peopleknow. Because I think once
people know, then they feel muchmore comfortable interacting
with the system. Now we had acouple more minutes left.
Anything that you feel isimportant to mention that we
haven't already talked
Unknown (21:57):
about. Yeah, so for companies that are trying to
adopt this and they're a littlebit scared. There's a couple of
things that they can do, right?
We need data for thisconversations AI agents to work.
So preparing the data whetheryou have, you know, voice
recordings available, you knowwhether you have scripts that
you use to train your reps, wecan use that data to custom
tailor the AI agents for them sothat it gets their personal
(22:19):
touch. Also, they're sometimesworried about implementation
cost, integration cost. The waythat we're doing this is we're
reaching out to the major TMS sothat it's one click button to
hook up to their TMS, right?
They all have API endpoints, andall we need is the credentials
(22:40):
to access the data, so theyshouldn't be too concerned about
that. And as far as securitygoes, we are in the process of
getting our SOC two type twocompliance, which means our
services are monitored for 90days to make sure that, you
know, everything is secured inthere, there's penetration
testing. And you know, overall,in general, you get an easy to
(23:04):
use dashboard. You gotconversational AI to help you
expand scale and, you know,operationalize a lot of your
scenarios and automate them. Butyou also get the security on the
back end with us.
Blythe Brumleve (23:16):
I love that you brought up security because I
meant to ask about that just incase. You know, I think
everybody's worried about theirown sort of data security, so
thank you for bringing that up.
Unknown (23:24):
Yeah. And one more thing I want to say about that
is the data at this point is notshared with any of the other
customers. So when you createthe accounts with our services,
it gets deployed in a separatespace that even if somehow it
manages to get hacked orpenetrated, it doesn't interfere
with anybody else's data.
Blythe Brumleve (23:43):
That's this was a really insightful
conversation. Thank you, Rogerfor sharing this, because I it's
one of those things where I'vetested around with like Zapier
and, you know, these otherthings, and it just didn't quite
work too well for me then. Butthis was a couple years ago, and
from everything that we'vetalked about today, feels like
all of this is
Unknown (24:02):
just and that's where I've seen a lot of people get
discouraged. They have tried,you know, years ago, you know,
some form of AI, and it doesn'tpan out. It was not good, it was
not ready, and you just havethis general feeling that we're
back to that now. It's just highpeople are excited, but no,
that's not the case. Technologyhas made a lot of progress.
Well, that's
Blythe Brumleve (24:21):
awesome.
Hopefully, maybe I can get itlike a demo account, and I can
try. We have those available.
Yes, awesome. Well, perfect.
Where can folks, if they want tosign up for a demo they want to
follow clone ops, connect withyou? Where can they reach out
Unknown (24:32):
to you? Yes, so I'm in LinkedIn. We have our website,
clone ops that AI we're planningto launch for the public at the
beginning of March, maybe firstweek or second week, but any of
those you know, media venues areavailable to
amazing Roger, it's great tohave you. Thank you very much.
Awesome, perfect.
Blythe Brumleve (24:55):
I hope you enjoyed this episode of
everything is logistics, apodcast for the thinkers. In
freight, telling the storiesbehind how your favorite stuff
and people get from point A toB. Subscribe to the show. Sign
up for our newsletter and followour socials over at everything
is logistics.com and in additionto the podcast, I also wanted to
let you all know about anothercompany I operate, and that's
(25:16):
digital dispatch, where we helpyou build a better website. Now,
a lot of the times we hand thistask of building a new website
or refreshing a current one offto a co worker's child, a
neighbor down the street, or astranger around the world, where
you probably spend more timeexplaining the freight industry
than it takes to actually buildthe dang website. Well, that
(25:36):
doesn't happen at Digitaldispatch. We've been You
Unknown (26:28):
tags, oh,
Welcome
Blythe Brumleve (00:05):
into another episode of everything is
logistics, a podcast for thethinkers and freight. I'm your
host. Blythe Milligan. We areproudly presented by SPI
logistics, and we've got ourfirst live interview at
manifest, the future of supplychain and logistics. We've got
Roger Boza with clone ops.ai.
Brand new partner to theeverything is logistics podcast,
so you'll be hearing a lot morefrom them in the future. But
(00:26):
Roger, welcome
Unknown (00:28):
to the show. Thank you.
Blythe, very nice to be herenow. What is your role within
clone ops? I'm
Roger Boza (00:33):
the CTA Chief Technology Advisor. Advisor.
Okay, yes. So I'm the bridgebetween the CEO David Bell and
our CTO Sasha and so how did youget into logistics? It's
actually a funny story. One ofmy cousins is married to David
Bell's nephew. So when Daviddecided to start clone ops and
(00:55):
do this whole agentic AI for thelogistical transportation
industry, you know, they werehaving a lunch. I get together.
He was talking to his nephews,like, hey, look, I'm excited
about this new company, this newtype of technology. And, you
know, it's going to be full onAI conversations. And Jacob goes
like, hey, we have somebody inthe extended family, which he
(01:15):
has. He's getting a PhD onartificial intelligence. You got
to meet him. He's really, youknow, intelligent, and let's see
if you guys pan out. So we had acouple of meetings, a couple of
conversations. I love David, hismentality, his outlook on the
technology's face. And he'slike, Roger, if you're the one
that I need to help us bridgethe technology AI and the
transportation industry.
Unknown (01:36):
That's awesome. I didn't know that they made PhDs
for AI yet, but it'sactually for computer science.
But when you write yourdissertation, you pick a topic,
and I focus on my wholedissertation on AI, on two
parts, computer vision andnatural language processing.
Okay,
Blythe Brumleve (01:49):
so let's get into to AI. What is sort of, I
guess, the status quo of AI andlogistics, because there's a lot
of, I think, misunderstandingof, is it automation? Is it
artificial intelligence? Give ussort of the landscape, the eagle
eye view,
Unknown (02:02):
all right? So I'm going to start out with, what is
intelligence, right? Becausethis whole word, AI, artificial
intelligence, a big buzz. Butintelligence, and there's a
couple of famous quotes, is, youknow, the ability to adapt, to
change, right? A little bit moreformally, for artificial
intelligence, is when you'reusing computer science skills,
algorithms and techniques tomimic human behavior. So with
(02:26):
that being said, there's a bigdifference between automation,
which is when you got a set ofprocesses and you're trying to
execute them, one after theother using some type of
software, but there's nointelligence. There's no
predictive power. There is noforecasting involved. It's just
a set of rules, and you'readvancing forward. Now AI, when
you start implementing that, iswhen you have that predictive
(02:49):
capability to make betterdecisions.
Blythe Brumleve (02:52):
So how does, how does that fit into what
clone Ops is, is doing now,because it, you know, there are
a couple of No, just AI focusedlogistics companies that have
entered the market hererecently. And I think it's, for
me, it's kind of tough to tell,like, Okay, how what is the
landscape of what AI looks like?
How can I apply this to mybusiness? I think there was a
(03:14):
quote that David said in aninterview. He said, I wish I
could clone myself, and that'show the company name came about,
and that's how the operationscame about. So tell us a little
bit about so
Unknown (03:26):
clone OP is focused on phone conversations, to automate
them, streamline them. And whatis trying to do is any phone
operation that deals with arepetitive task, something that
is very monotonous, boring, butit's low risk and high value. We
get clones for clone ops, right,to try to duplicate and mimic
what a rep would actually do inthat conversation.
Blythe Brumleve (03:48):
And so it's a lot of like the brokers. Is it
just broker specific? No,
Unknown (03:52):
it doesn't have to be just for brokers. We're
targeting brokers right nowbecause they're the first ones
that have want this, right? Thatthey love the idea. And I have
personally seen a broker put aload on that board, and within a
minute, he had five calls. Nowhe can only pick up one. He
tries to negotiate a rate, andit might be successful, but it
might not come down to nothing.
So he wasted the time. He looksat his caller ID, he's calling
(04:14):
back the next one, but hedoesn't pick up or he already
got a load from somebody else.
So this is where the agentic AI,the conversational AI, comes in.
Nobody goes on hold. Those fivecalls come in. It picks up for
all five of them, and it beginsthe negotiation. When one of
them actually is successful, itdisengages the other ones in
(04:34):
real time. It tells reallylisten that load is already
booked. You know, better lucknext time. And for the one that
actually had a rate negotiationsuccessful, a confirmation is
sent to their email, and then itproceeds.
Blythe Brumleve (04:47):
So what does it look like, I guess, from a user
perspective, if I'm going towork, I'm a freight broker, I
have clone ops like, what doesit look like during my work day?
Is it a dashboard? Yes,interface that I'm using,
Unknown (05:02):
it is a very interactive dashboard, so we
wanted to make it very userfriendly, easy to use. In fact,
one of the things that we'redoing is self onboarding. You
go, you create your account, youlog in, you're gonna see a
marketplace where we have someof the AI agents already
configured. That way you can hitthe floor running. You see one
that you like, let's say thatyou wanted to carry yourselves
doing renegotiation and loadbooking. You will hire that one,
(05:25):
and it starts workingimmediately. Now, if you have a
TMS that you want to integrateto pull in the load information
and the carrier verification, weintegrate with a couple of them,
including highway for carrierverification, but you put your
credentials in there to get theAPI access, and the agent is
live. So next time somebodycalls a phone number provision
(05:46):
by the AI, it picks up andstarts the conversation and
negotiating the rate. And if yougot 1015, 20 calls, I'm not
saying that you want to look at20 calls at the same time, but
the system tracks all the calls,and you can pick a subset of
them, you put them in your onyour live dashboard, and you're
just looking at them going on.
Now. The idea here is to be ableto intervene, to have a human in
(06:06):
the loop with a takeoverfunctionality. We are the first
ones doing that now. And infact, we actually have a we went
after a patent for for it,because what you want to do is
one of those conversations isgoing either extremely bad,
right? You know, the customer isscreaming at the AI agent. It
doesn't understand that he'shaving a hard time. It just
doesn't like the technology. Youdon't want to wait for that to
(06:29):
be transferred to a human rep.
If you're looking at thedashboard, right, and you're
monitoring that, you just takeover the call, you step in and
you mend the situation. Oh, so
Blythe Brumleve (06:38):
you almost have to, this is like a second
screen, so you're working on thesame dashboard. You just switch
tabs, yeah. Oh, good. Becauseinteresting, because I was
thinking, like, if I'm a broker,I usually have at least two
different screens. A lot of themhave four. And so maybe they're
working on, you know, theworking on their customer
relationship, and, you know,building those, you know, cold
calling, or anything like that.
And then they can watch theseagents in another screen to make
(06:59):
sure that they're doing theirjobs too. If they
Unknown (07:03):
have multiple monitors, they can be from our dashboard.
They can detach that tab and putit on a separate screen and just
monitor that live. That's crazy.
And since you mentioned coldcalls, you can have an agent
right that is doing cold calls.
You can have another agent tonegotiate the rates for you. You
can have another agent that canwork as a secretary for anybody
that calls in. It's like, hey, Ineed to book a load. It can
(07:23):
transfer you to the agent, theAI agent that does that. If it's
not available, he's not busy.
Doesn't matter, though, theinformation goes to the screen
whenever he needs. He can sitdown, he can take over, and he
sees that live transcript withkeywords and sentiment analysis
for it.
Blythe Brumleve (07:37):
Oh, wow. So is it? Is it one voice for a lot of
different customers. Or how doesthat work? Is it trained on your
own voice? We can, we
Unknown (07:45):
can clone your voice.
So there's two ways of doingthat. Yeah, we can clone your
voice. There's a fast way and aprofessional way. There's always
a trade off between accuracy andquality and speed. So if you
just want to speak for about twothree minutes, and want us to
clone your voice. We can getthat done. In fact, we can get
it done with only about 30seconds of your voice, but it's
(08:06):
not going to contain the fullrange of vocal sounds, emotions,
and then it starts soundingrobotic. With about 15 minutes
to 30 minutes, we can getsomething that, in general, most
people will say, All right, Ithink you might be an AI agent,
the robot. But the voice soundsnice. It has a good quality. So
Blythe Brumleve (08:24):
do you have maybe several voices for each
company, or is it maybe onevoice? They can
Unknown (08:29):
they can pick their own voices. We have a selection of
over about 2030, voices. Now wecan detect spoken language in 16
different languages, and we canspeak back in 32 Now, ideally we
want to have the same amount ofdetection voices as spoken
voices, but that's technologythat still needs to be improved.
Well
Blythe Brumleve (08:49):
that should I mean light bulbs are sort of
going off because for a lot ofdrivers, they speak different
languages, and not all brokersspeak all different languages.
And so I would imagine that thathelps facilitate those
conversations too,
Unknown (09:00):
correct? And once we go live, when you call to, let's
say, negotiate the rate or booka load, if you start speaking in
Spanish, the agent will greetyou and talk to you in Spanish.
If you're talking in Russian,you will have a Russian accent,
and it will talk to you inRussian. It's crazy, yeah? What
a time to be alive. And it canbe, yeah, it can be either
female or male. Wow. Okay,
Blythe Brumleve (09:21):
so what does that I guess, a typical
onboarding process look like?
How long does it take to get setup? It takes
Unknown (09:26):
a couple of minutes.
Well, you create the account.
It's a couple of steps. Typicalaccount creation, right?
Username, password, the name ofthe company, et cetera. Once the
account is created, you log ininto the dashboard, and you see
our marketplace if you see anagent that you want for your use
case or your scenario, you hirethat one, you give it the
credentials to connect to theTMS or to any other API
(09:49):
endpoints that it needs to pullin data you might have, Excel
sheets, CSV, it really doesn'tmatter. We support all of that,
but you'll connect it to thatwith our connectors and the
agents. Starts working rightthere, then, and
Blythe Brumleve (10:01):
so they integrate with all of your
different sort of software techstack, correct?
Unknown (10:06):
Yes. Wow, yeah. So what
Blythe Brumleve (10:08):
does, I guess, sort of the, what do you
envision as sort of the role ofa modern day brokerage look
like, like if I were to start abrokerage tomorrow, it sounds
like I wouldn't need a lot ofthat overhead. I could have a
lot of the help. Right off thebat, it sounds like kind of
Unknown (10:22):
a game. So this is a perfect opportunity if you want
to scale right your operationsand your business, because human
resources, they're veryexpensive, they're hard to come
by. You got to train them.
Instead of going that route,which is very difficult and
sometimes very costly, you canuse the AI agent. So what would
it look like for him? He goesin, he logs in, he sets up the
agents that he wants for hisscenarios to automate those
(10:44):
processes, and he sits down andlooks at the screen. Now, if he
gets bored, he can go and dosomething more productive. And
that's actually what we want do,something more productive, more
efficient with your time,strategic thinking, strategic
planning, and that type of
Blythe Brumleve (10:58):
things. And so what there's just so much to
because I feel like I need this,and I'm not even a broker.
Unknown (11:06):
And that's why David Bell said he wishes he could
clone himself, because it canrepresent, at least with the
modern technology that we haveright now. Even though it's not
100% perfect, and AI will neverbe 100% perfect, it can mimic a
lot of the things that you cannormally do. We're actually
working for something that isgoing to come out later in the
year, which is a virtual avatarthat one will clone your voice,
(11:27):
will clone your appearance. Andyou can even have a join a Zoom
meeting and have a conversationin the meeting for you, they can
take the notes for you, and thenit will give you the details and
the summary. What is the biggestsort of the reaction
Blythe Brumleve (11:38):
of other people who may be on the call is there
is
Unknown (11:41):
a big spectrum, and it's all over the place. Some
people are very receptive to it.
Other people really hate it.
Usually you don't want somebodyon the other side of the phone
that sounds robotic, right? Andwe have identified three things
that make it sound robotic, thevoice itself, the content that
is saying and the delay, if itspeaks too fast, or it speaks
too slow. As soon as you tellfrom any of those, like, Hey,
(12:04):
this is a robot, you disengagefrom the conversation. You get
angry, and they because they getfrustrated, right? They're like,
it might not understand me,previous interactions with AI
quote, unquote is usually very,you know, frustrating, like you
call your bank and they have anautomated response service like
press one for just yell on thephone customer support. So
(12:26):
there's this mentality that assoon as you think robot, you
have to ask for a rep, right?
Representative human, give mesome, and they start cursing at
it. So there is a big spectrum.
We see all of it, but we're nottrying to mask the voice and the
service as a human right? It'svery friendly. It's there to
help you right that way, youdon't go on hold, you don't get
(12:47):
frustrated. You can ask youquestions. You can interact with
it, right? So it's not yourtypical answering service that
it's a predefined answer to aquestion. This one will engage
in the questions for you. That'swhere the modern technology is
at with the large English modelslike GPT Gemini and the famous
ones out there.
Blythe Brumleve (13:05):
So what does, sort of, I guess, the next step
look like? So like the finalfrontier technology, and
Unknown (13:12):
that's part of the AI roadmap, right? So right now
we're targeting brokers. Are thefirst ones to, you know, to get
this type of technologyimplemented, not necessarily for
the customer forward facing, butyou know, for their regular
operations. Now eventually, thecarriers are going to get
annoyed, upset and frustratedbecause they have AI agents
coming from all over the place,and since this is all technology
(13:35):
and automated, they're going toget blasted by it. So we're
going to transition and providethem with AI agents for
carriers. So now you got abroker with an AI agent calling
a carrier, but the carrierdoesn't pick up. It's another AI
agent that picks up, and theyhave the conversation and they
negotiate the rate and dowhatever they got to do. And at
that point, we're trying to cointhe term API AI, where it says
(13:58):
AI talking to AI, doingeverything on the back end, and
you get your time to dosomething more productive. The
truckers just drive, andeverybody does what they're good
at.
Blythe Brumleve (14:08):
Because I'll be honest, that was one of my first
initial thinkings with drivers,is that they're going to hate
this, like they are just sosensitive about technology and
things like that, but if it's totheir advantage to start using
it, then I think that they wouldbe much more willing to, you
know, use this technology,because then they don't have to
do their own grunt work thatthey don't like doing, either
(14:28):
they don't
Unknown (14:29):
like talking on the phone, they don't like being on
hold. So imagine you're atrucker. You set up your AI
agent. You're interested in fouror five loads. Your agent calls
all of them at the same time.
The first one to negotiate therate that is to your advantage.
That's the first one that closesthe deal, and now you just go
make your money. What does that,
Blythe Brumleve (14:45):
I guess, sort of the price points look like
for these are you paying peragent, or it's,
Unknown (14:50):
at the moment, is per agent per minute? Okay? Yeah,
there's a lot of services thatgo behind it, but it's usually
permitted. Now we're going tohave a pricing tier. So. Right?
That, depending where you eitherpre buy the minutes, right? And
then it goes a little bit abovethat, right per minute, or, you
know, depending on the tier, isjust, you know, 2025, cents per
(15:11):
minute. Now, technology advancesvery fast, right? It actually
follows something called Moore'slaw, where the amount of, and
this gets a little technical,the amount of transistors in
CPUs double every two years.
That being said, we get fastermodels that make better
predictions. They're moreengaged and more accurate and
less expensive to train and havethat lowers the price. So
(15:32):
eventually this is going to comedown into the order of cents,
below 10 cents,
Blythe Brumleve (15:39):
yeah, because I would imagine that that's a
large problem with the coststructure right now, just paying
for all of the different tokensthat you get from all of these
different large language models.
Correct now, for companies, areyou building sort of their own
large language model for them?
Unknown (15:55):
No, it's not just for them. We do use chat GPT, but we
don't retrain that model. Now,I'll be honest, since I come
from that background trainingchat, GPT itself requires a
company like Google, Microsoftor Amazon with that amount of
resources and hundreds ofmillions of dollars, so we
couldn't retrain those models.
What we do is something calledknowledge transfer, right where
(16:16):
it has a so by the way, do youknow what GBT stands for? Is a
is a generative, free trainedtransformer. Oh, what was that
last word transformer? Oh, sowhole bunch of fancy words, but
they actually each meansomething, right? Generative,
because the AI model cangenerate content outside of its
distribution. And this is wherewe like it for AI conversations,
(16:38):
because it can generate theconversation flow, and it
follows like a humanconversation, pre trained,
meaning the model is ready touse and it has general
knowledge, right? The way totrain them is you grab a massive
corpus of text. I'm talkingabout Wikipedia pages, I'm
talking about library books. I'mtalking about websites. You grab
all that data and you feed it tothe model, you let it train with
(17:01):
it. Now, the last wordtransformer, that's just the
structure of the neural networkin there, which is very good to
handle temporal information aswell as conversation in this
case. So all of that giventogether, they're very expensive
to train. Now, once we got thatmodel, what we can do is like,
Hey, you already know somegeneral knowledge about
(17:23):
logistics, transportationconversations. You've seen it.
You train on data like that. Buthere's my specific domain right
now, logistics and stress,information and transportation.
This is how the data and how youshould behave within this sub
domain. So we transfer thatknowledge into the model, and is
now fine tuned for thesescenarios
Blythe Brumleve (17:44):
I'm just blown away at, like, how fast we got
here. Does it surprise you thatsome of this technology, like
exists, it does,
Unknown (17:51):
it does, and actually it changes everything when I
started. So my background is incomputer science, with a track
on software engineering up to mydoctor right now, which is
specializing in AI. Sorry, butback in 2016 when one of my
professors convinced me to gofor Masters and PhD, he told me,
like, Roger, you need to focuson AI, because in 10 years, and
(18:13):
this is nine years ago, in 10years, AI is going to be
mainstream. It's going to be allover the place. And if you want
to make money, study it, I don'tstudy the rest. And true enough,
it had progressed so much, andit's mainly due to technology.
Right? Hardware advancementshave been going through the
roof. They get faster, they getcheaper to use. You know, we
(18:34):
have more industries gettinginvolved into it, so we have
more resources, and everybodyyou know it's pushing to make
the technology better. How
Blythe Brumleve (18:43):
do you deal with some of, I guess, maybe the
pushbacks that you might getfrom from potential customers.
And then how do you answer tothose
Unknown (18:49):
pushbacks? What kind of pushback You mean, like, a, is
this robotic? We don't like it,or it's like a nothing along
Blythe Brumleve (18:54):
those lines, like, I know, no, I want the
personal touch. I want to keep apersonal touch with my
customers, or, you know,drivers, or something like that.
So
Unknown (19:03):
one thing that I recommend to them, and that has
actually happened to us, right?
They want that personal touch.
It sounds like give me yourconversations, right? You have
recorded conversations of youtalking to your customers. Let
me fine tune the model with thattype of information that we when
the agent is talking to it, ithas your same personality or
very close to it. So that's oneway to go about that. Another
(19:24):
way is for people that arerejecting the AI side of it,
don't try to hide it, right?
This is an AI agent trying tohelp you, right? So that, yeah,
so that you know, you don't goon hold. You can get somebody on
the phone really quick. You canget what you want other
conversation. And in our casewith clone ops, right? There's
always a human in the loop.
Somebody's always looking at adashboard ready to take over if
(19:45):
something doesn't goaccordingly. How
Blythe Brumleve (19:48):
do you know if something gets screwed up with
the agent?
Unknown (19:56):
Those are the phone questions,
Blythe Brumleve (19:58):
much like a regular employee, but. Yes, you
would want to have correctiveaction, right? Correct? Yes.
Unknown (20:03):
So one thing that we do, and I think a lot of the
competition actually does this,is called sentiment analysis,
right? So a conversation can beeither neutral, negative or
positive, right? We take it as alittle step further by also
analyzing the mood of theconversation itself. Is the mood
happy? Is that aggressive? Isthis frustrated? You know, are
(20:23):
they angry? And an additionalstep, we also analyze the voice.
Are they whispering? Are theyscreaming? Are they talking with
a regular tone? So we got thosethree metrics, and using some
clever functions, rightmathematical functions, we get a
conversation score. So that'sone of the first metrics that
you can track. And normally, ifsomething is going down south,
(20:44):
right, they're screaming right.
They're toning the voice has avery high pitch. The wording
that they use, the context isvery negative, and the mood of
it is going to be angry orupset, and that drives that
conversation score very low. Nowin our dashboard, when that
conversation score drops thatconversation comes up on the
dashboard closer to your eyewhere you're normally looking.
(21:04):
That the first couple ofconversations maybe five or six,
and it turns red, right? We havevisualizations to let you know.
Hey, something is going on here.
We also track and highlight, youknow, keywords, right? Hey,
you're not understanding me,right? That combination will
highlight certain words that areindicative of something going
wrong.
Blythe Brumleve (21:26):
I'm just stunned at this is, like, where
we're at right now, because Ifeel like I want to hire like,
10 of these for myself, and I'mnot a broker, but I do. I have
really thought about how I wouldintroduce that, how I would
disclose that. Am I going to besecretive or not? So I love that
you brought that up, that youshould be upfront with it, and
(21:46):
you should let other peopleknow. Because I think once
people know, then they feel muchmore comfortable interacting
with the system. Now we had acouple more minutes left.
Anything that you feel isimportant to mention that we
haven't already talked
Unknown (21:57):
about. Yeah, so for companies that are trying to
adopt this and they're a littlebit scared. There's a couple of
things that they can do, right?
We need data for thisconversations AI agents to work.
So preparing the data whetheryou have, you know, voice
recordings available, you knowwhether you have scripts that
you use to train your reps, wecan use that data to custom
tailor the AI agents for them sothat it gets their personal
(22:19):
touch. Also, they're sometimesworried about implementation
cost, integration cost. The waythat we're doing this is we're
reaching out to the major TMS sothat it's one click button to
hook up to their TMS, right?
They all have API endpoints, andall we need is the credentials
(22:40):
to access the data, so theyshouldn't be too concerned about
that. And as far as securitygoes, we are in the process of
getting our SOC two type twocompliance, which means our
services are monitored for 90days to make sure that, you
know, everything is secured inthere, there's penetration
testing. And you know, overall,in general, you get an easy to
(23:04):
use dashboard. You gotconversational AI to help you
expand scale and, you know,operationalize a lot of your
scenarios and automate them. Butyou also get the security on the
back end with us.
Blythe Brumleve (23:16):
I love that you brought up security because I
meant to ask about that just incase. You know, I think
everybody's worried about theirown sort of data security, so
thank you for bringing that up.
Unknown (23:24):
Yeah. And one more thing I want to say about that
is the data at this point is notshared with any of the other
customers. So when you createthe accounts with our services,
it gets deployed in a separatespace that even if somehow it
manages to get hacked orpenetrated, it doesn't interfere
with anybody else's data.
Blythe Brumleve (23:43):
That's this was a really insightful
conversation. Thank you, Rogerfor sharing this, because I it's
one of those things where I'vetested around with like Zapier
and, you know, these otherthings, and it just didn't quite
work too well for me then. Butthis was a couple years ago, and
from everything that we'vetalked about today, feels like
all of this is
Unknown (24:02):
just and that's where I've seen a lot of people get
discouraged. They have tried,you know, years ago, you know,
some form of AI, and it doesn'tpan out. It was not good, it was
not ready, and you just havethis general feeling that we're
back to that now. It's just highpeople are excited, but no,
that's not the case. Technologyhas made a lot of progress.
Well, that's
Blythe Brumleve (24:21):
awesome.
Hopefully, maybe I can get itlike a demo account, and I can
try. We have those available.
Yes, awesome. Well, perfect.
Where can folks, if they want tosign up for a demo they want to
follow clone ops, connect withyou? Where can they reach out
Unknown (24:32):
to you? Yes, so I'm in LinkedIn. We have our website,
clone ops that AI we're planningto launch for the public at the
beginning of March, maybe firstweek or second week, but any of
those you know, media venues areavailable to
amazing Roger, it's great tohave you. Thank you very much.
Awesome, perfect.
Blythe Brumleve (24:55):
I hope you enjoyed this episode of
everything is logistics, apodcast for the thinkers. In
freight, telling the storiesbehind how your favorite stuff
and people get from point A toB. Subscribe to the show. Sign
up for our newsletter and followour socials over at everything
is logistics.com and in additionto the podcast, I also wanted to
let you all know about anothercompany I operate, and that's
(25:16):
digital dispatch, where we helpyou build a better website. Now,
a lot of the times we hand thistask of building a new website
or refreshing a current one offto a co worker's child, a
neighbor down the street, or astranger around the world, where
you probably spend more timeexplaining the freight industry
than it takes to actually buildthe dang website. Well, that
(25:36):
doesn't happen at Digitaldispatch. We've been You
Unknown (26:28):
tags, oh,
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