March 20, 2025 • 32 mins
Cargo thieves aren’t just stealing freight—they’re outpacing traditional security methods with fraudulent carriers, fake BOLs, and even high-speed heists.
Cargo theft has surged 50% year-over-year, leaving shippers and brokers scrambling for protection. But while criminals are getting smarter, so is technology.
On this episode of Everything is Logistics, Jonathan Ryan, CPTO of Overhaul, reveals how AI and machine learning are helping companies prevent theft before it happens.
Key Takeaways:
- Cargo theft is up 50% from 2023 to 2024, with electronics, pharmaceuticals, and food as the biggest targets.
- Thieves are forging BOLs mid-transit using mobile printers, allowing them to walk away with shipments undetected.
- The Romanian Roll, a high-speed theft method, is now happening in the U.S., putting drivers at greater risk.
- Overhaul’s Fraud Watch AI analyzes historical theft data, FMCSA records, and live tracking data to detect risky carriers and suspicious shipments.
- Overhaul’s law enforcement network has achieved a 96% recovery rate, with boots on the ground in as little as 10-20 minutes after an incident.
Listen now to learn how AI-driven fraud detection, real-time load monitoring, and industry intelligence are changing the game for supply chain security.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Blythe Brumleve (00:05):
Welcome into another episode of everything is
logistics, a podcast for thethinkers in freight. I am your
host, Blythe Milligan, and weare probably sponsored by SPI
logistics, and we've got onemore, our last interview at
manifest, the future of supplychain and logistics, at least
the last live one. And we've gota repeat company, not repeat,
yes, but a repeat company comingback on the show. We got
(00:27):
Jonathan Ryan Overhaul's, ChiefProduct Technology Officer, to
talk about the state of cargocrime for 2025 along with a new,
I guess, a product that you guysare launching. Here are you. Is
the press release dropped today.
I don't believe it droppedtoday. I think it dropped it a
little while ago. But, yeah,going to talk more. Going to
talk more about it gotcha, andthat is your new fraud. Watch AI
solution, the 55 million infunding that they announced
(00:50):
previously, as well as broadertrends happening in supply chain
risk management and cargo riftrisk Theft Prevention space. So
that was a mouthful for myself,so I'm going to let the expert
take over from here. AndJonathan. Give us a give us a
preview. Give us an overview ofhow you got into logistics. How
you got into, you know, workingfor overhaul, all that good
stuff. Yep. So, you know,unfortunately, I don't have a 20
(01:12):
year story to tell you about howI got into supply chain
logistics, but I completed acomputer science degree in
Ireland. I'm from Ireland andworked in finance for a year in
Ireland. Really wanted to go tothe US and explore more on the
technology side and get intosomething there. And I kind of
expected, after a year in theUS, I'd return to Ireland and
have to find a new company, butcome back with some experience.
(01:34):
But I found overhaul. And, youknow, I started working in the
product and kind of tech supportspace eight years ago, almost
nine years ago now. And youknow, one of the lucky things
about that, I guess, is it meantwearing a lot of hats. And as we
kind of pivoted into the SaaSsolution that we have today, I
moved more into the productspace, engineering space. And
over the years, then, as wefound that product market fit,
(01:57):
moved into engineeringmanagement, VP of Engineering,
and then year and a half ago, weconsolidated the product and
engineering orgs intotechnology, and then I moved
into the cpto role. And so withyour your role, with overhaul,
what does sort of a day to daylook like for you? There is no
one single day for sure. But youknow, we have a we've a global
team, engineers and productmanagers. So a lot of what I try
(02:19):
to do is just make sure thateverybody's on the same page
around what we want to achieve,what are some of the challenges
we're facing. You know, what Ireally like to try and
incorporate into all of ourtechnology teams is good
industry understanding. I thinkit's really important that
whether you're an engineer orproduct manager, you understand
the space, and you know whyyou're solving the problem, and
(02:41):
so it's a lot of thatcoordination, and then also
just, you know, working with oursales marketing that go to
market strategy, things likethat, and are really just, you
know, pretty broad still, Ithink we're coming out of that
startup phase, and we've beenout for a while, but as someone
who joined the company fairlyearly, you know, you still kind
of wear quite a few hats and tryto solve, tackle quite a few
(03:03):
problems. So from a high level,what does sort of risk and prod
fraud prevention look like inthe modern day 2025, logistics
company? Yeah, yeah. And, Imean, that's the that's the
first question everybody asksis, what does risk mean to you?
And so, you know, our softwareis risk management solution
across a variety of differentrisks. So the risk might be on
time performance ETAs and therisk that that means to your
(03:25):
customers not arriving on time,and how it can affect your
relationship. But moretraditionally, what we focus on
is security and risk. And sowhat that means is the actual
integrity of the goods and theload, and also the the safety of
the driver is part of that aswell. And so what will what we
set out to achieve is, you know,first and foremost, be
preventative. You don't want tostolen goods. You don't want
(03:47):
pilferages That you're having torespond to. So we try to,
through incorporation of ourtechnology technology, improve
our customer supply chains bybringing in best in class
processes, procedures, tryingnot to overwhelm, you know, I
think it's important that you'reable to keep very close to the
procedures and processes theyfollow today, but incorporate
technology in the right placesso that you can get that data
(04:10):
back and help continuallymonitor and improve their
network you just mentioned, youknow, sort of the, I guess, the
safety of the driver, which is,I think I haven't really heard
any other sort of riskprevention, fraud prevention
company talk about, can youexpand on that a little more?
Yeah. I mean, you know, in theearly days, before we kind of
pivoted into the SaaS solution,that was something that we were,
(04:31):
we were very focused on, was,how can we help the drivers,
carriers, you know, find thesehigher value shipments and
loads, and somebody who's beenperforming, you know, at a very
high level for years, but maybestruggling to get into that
continual, reoccurringoperations. And so as part of
that driver focus, you know, wewanted to ensure that there was
safety from their perspective aswell, particularly when you're
(04:54):
operating globally in some ofthese more dynamic environments
where there.
Jonathan Ryan (05:00):
Can be, you know, concerns around that. I think
that's as important as ensuringthe cargo. You know,
Unknown (05:06):
when I had a previous guest from from overhaul on the
show, we were talking before werecorded that, they had
mentioned all of the, I guess,the differences between
countries of Brazil versusMexico versus the United States,
of how they try to have, youknow, try to implement fraud
prevention, risk, riskmanagement, things like that.
I'm curious how that's evolved.
What is sort of, I guess, a highlevel process look like, because
(05:29):
you mentioned that some of thosethings that are happening in
other countries are now comingto the United States, yeah, and
so maybe to even take a stepback a little bit and speak to
what overhaul does. So we are asoftware company, and we look at
integrating all of the variousdata that already exists out
there. And so we're nothardware. We don't build
devices, but we do integratewith them, and we are device and
(05:51):
IoT agnostic. And so what thatallows us to do via maybe TMS,
ERP, WMS, OMS integrations, iscreate that customer shipment,
and then, via our telematics,ELD IoT integrations, populate
that shipment with with thosedata sources and those pings
that that allow us to track ashipment. And so what that does
from the security perspectivethen, and maybe getting into you
(06:16):
know, what we see acrossdifferent regions
that provides a higher level ofvisibility and higher frequency
and a higher resolution network.
And so when it comes to cargotheft, you know, what we've
typically seen in areas like ourregions like Mexico, Brazil,
(06:37):
is a lot more risk to the driverin those areas. And it can be,
you know, I'm not sure what theright word to put on it is, but,
you know, an environment wherethe driver is definitely, you
know, a little more aware of theissues they might might
encounter while on the road. Butwhat we've seen over the last,
you know, couple of years is alot of those methods that were
happening overseas, outside ofthe US, actually come into the
(07:01):
US now, and we've seen thingssuch as the Romanian role. I
don't know if you're familiarwith that, but it's honestly
like something straight out ofFast and Furious. You know,
where the load is moving downthe road at high speeds, and
they're actually pilfering itand unloading the cargo while in
motion, and taking things out ofthe back of the trailer. So
that's just an example of someof the methods that we've seen
(07:22):
that have started to become morefrequent in the US, where we had
typically seen them overseas.
Wow, that is absolutely insane.
There was another thing, and Idon't know if this is happening
yet in the United States, butthere was another thing that he
had mentioned that for inBrazil, they almost try to
recruit high schoolers to, youknow, get into with the cartels
(07:45):
and the local gangs withinBrazil, and then they recruit
them to start working atdifferent logistics companies.
And so then they have an in oncethat person graduates high
school, or graduates theirschooling, and then goes and
works for these logisticscompanies. Yeah, absolutely. You
know, that's not something thatwe've encountered too much of in
the US. But you know what tiesin similar, very closely to
(08:07):
that, is that you know people onthe inside and you know carrier
companies that are set up andtrying to look as reputable as
as can be. But part of what ourfraud watch solution does is it
incorporates, first of all, youknow, a very rich historical
data set that we have from anintelligence perspective, but
(08:28):
then also integrating with thirdparty data source, sources such
as the FMCSA data, along with avariety of other sources. And so
what that helps us identify arethose illegitimate carriers or
carriers that are trying toappear as if, as if they're
legitimate, and they've beenworking in the industry for a
while, and so that's where ourfraud watch. When a carrier is
entered into the system as partof the process, I was able to
(08:50):
flag that, hey, this afterpassing through our rules
engine, this doesn't meet thecriteria that we would expect.
And you might want to, you know,reconsider shipping that load
with this carrier. That's superinteresting. And so it's almost
like an alert system prior tomaybe it becoming a problem.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And maybejust even speak a little more to
fraud watch in that context. Soa big problem that a lot of our
(09:14):
customers had, and that a lot ofpeople still have in the
industry, is double brokeringand shipment being created,
maybe via their TMS platform,and, you know, a certain carrier
being assigned, but then whoactually shows up on the day to
pick up that load? And that'swhere we have software that's
available at the dock thatallows them to capture the
carrier who's showing up at thattime, and then we assess it
(09:36):
against who was the originallybooked carrier through the TMS
and then compare if that'sdouble brokered, and then at
that same time, run that throughour fraud watch system to be
able to understand, you know,is, has it been operating for
more than six months? Is theremore than one driver there? Do
they have more than one tractortrailer registered? There's a
lot of these different nuances,you know, that we've understood
(09:56):
through our our history, butalso through our intelligence
teams that work at overhaul.
Yeah, it's really kind of defineand make that fraud watch
product very useful andimpactful for our customers. And
so when somebody is using fraudwatch, is it almost like they're
they have a screen open on, youknow, say, like a traditional
like broker's office orsomething. They have four
(10:18):
screens, and they're bookinglows or calling their sourcing
carriers, or doing all of thatstuff. Do they have fraud watch
as like one on some one of theirscreens as they're looking at on
a day to day basis? So there's,actually, there's a few
different ways that they can usefraud watch. And so first and
foremost fraud watch is, youknow, preventative, and we try
(10:40):
not, as I said before, todisrupt their flow of how they
do things. So for example, if ifthey want to create shipments in
a TMS, then at that time, via anAPI, we will assess the carrier
that they've assigned so thatcan be completely hands off,
just through the TMS system, andthen we can send that as a
notification or an alert towhoever at the at the customer
(11:01):
wants to be notified of that, tosay that, hey, you've
potentially put a risky carrieron on this load. So that's kind
of hands off approach. Then wehave software that can, you
know, be loaded onto a tablet, amobile application. And we're
also looking at app list,because who doesn't have app
fatigue at this point? Andthat's where it can be a little
more hands on, where you'recapturing at that point of
(11:23):
departure who the carrier is,and so that's that's alerting
that to you. But then, as youmentioned, there is also a web
app that has the carrierdashboard where you can enter
carriers in. And you know, maybeit's not that one time checkout
where you're assessing thatparticular carrier, but you're
uploading multiple carriers, andyou're getting that bulk check
and just assessing your networkfor any of the latest risks. So
(11:46):
exception management, maybe,yeah, yeah, exactly. And one
thing is that, you know, peoplewill will talk about AI every
other second. Word here isprobably going to be AI, but you
know, you're only as good as thedata that you have and the
intelligence that you have, andthat's where on the overhaul
side, something that is veryunique to us, is 16 years worth
(12:07):
of intelligence data from anintelligence team who has worked
in this space. You know, we havesome former law enforcement with
over 80 years between them whoare working in tandem with huh?
So you actually have officerstoo that are working for
overhaul, yeah, yeah, exactly.
And so, you know, we really aimto combine machine learning AI
data, but with subject matterexperts as well, you know, to
(12:31):
validate, to review, of course,not every shipment that ever
travels is captured in overhaul.
So we do have otherintegrations, and we do have
team members that are focused onunderstanding what are the
latest trends, what do we needto be able to respond to? I can
actually give you anotherexample of something that we're
seeing and how I would love tosee it here. So that was gonna
(12:51):
be my next question. Is heresome of those latest trends,
commodities that are targeted,maybe.
So there's been a 50% increasefrom 2023 to 2024 in cargo
theft, and 30% of that has beenaround electronics. So
electronics is heavily, heavilytargeted. 50% of that has been
pilferage, and I think 25% hasbeen full truckload. So you
(13:15):
know, we're seeing a big uptickin cargo theft. But you know, to
speak the overhaul, one thing wedo also see is that, for the
goods that are targetedfrequently or are maybe more
high value, one out of every2000 loads that aren't monitored
by overhaul will see a theftevent, you know, maybe a
attempted pilferage, a pilferagethings like that. Does that
(13:37):
mean, you know, somebody'strying to steal, like the
Romanian road, that what youwere talking Yeah, they're just
trying to take, you know, acouple of couple of boxes off
the back, maybe some TV screens,consoles, things like that, you
know, just trying to use themoment get away with, with what
they can. And so that's one in2000 that we see targeted that
aren't monitored by overhaul.
But then when you are monitoredby overhaul, it's one in 35,000
(13:57):
so our preventative measures iswhat we really focus on, as you
don't get yourself into thatsituation where you're
susceptible to cargo theft, oryou're driving on a lane or in a
region, or using a carrier whois going to, you know,
potentially put that load atrisk. And so that's, you know,
super interesting stat, I think,from our side, is that we are,
(14:18):
you know, continuously beatingthat industry trend for those
who target high value goods. Butsorry, I forgot. I was going to
get back to the the example. Andso one thing that we're seeing
is speaking to thesophistication of Cairo
criminals today is that theywill take the bol at a at an
origin facility, and then get intransit, and they'll actually
(14:39):
have printers in the cab withthem to Doctor the bol and then
show up at the deliverylocation, give the you know,
receiver, the updated BOL, andthen leave with you know, the
rest of of the goods. And sothat's where that double
brokering and preventative stepis so important, and that's the
kind of issue that fraud watchis.
(15:00):
Acting. And honestly, that'sbeen that's been growing
rapidly. Wow. What are someother, maybe trends that are
evolving? Because I have heard,I think it was around 2020, or
maybe 2021 that it wasn'tnecessarily electronics that
were being targeted. It was morelike perishables. So energy
drinks, where, I think, were abig one, pistachios were also a
big one. Are there any otherlike commodities? Maybe, because
(15:23):
for a lot of, I think, for theaudience, for a lot of those
examples, there's no trackingthose products, because once
they're eaten or used, that youcan't find, you know, a VIN
number or UPC number on the backof that, versus like an
electronic device. So I'mcurious if you know any of those
other sort of commodity trendsyou're seeing in your data?
Yeah. I think, you know, one ofthe recent stories that came up
(15:46):
was maybe you saw it around theeggs, eggs
being stolen? No. And so, youknow that kind of speaks. Did
you see an X Wing stolen? Sorry,eggs.
I knew the Irish accent wasgonna get me in trouble here.
Yeah, and so and so we sawrecently, and I think, you know,
it hit pretty much mainstreamnews as well, around eggs being
(16:07):
stolen. And that, you know,speaks to how agile a lot of
these cargo criminals are,because it's not necessarily
about the value of the goods,it's also about demand. And so,
you know, eggs is somethingthat's been very topical over
this last while. And so theyknow, and a lot of these carrot
criminals are also wholesalers,the good one, the good ones. And
(16:29):
so to them, it's about marginand how quickly you can shift
that. And so sometimes, when yousee something like demand for
eggs, and you know that there'smarket there for it, that's
actually, you know, there's canbe more incentive than going and
taking TVs, because they knowthat they can just move that so
quickly, and it's once it'sgone, it's gone, there's no
traceability to it. What othertrends, I guess, are you seeing
(16:50):
for maybe, you know, 2025, andbeyond? You know, I really just
do think that it's the continuedsophistication of how these
cargo criminals are operating. Ithink that example that I gave
of the updated bol shows thatthey're much more familiar with
what's happening in terms of howpeople are monitoring goods and
(17:10):
how they're responding to it andand so that's, you know,
a constant evolution on our sideis, how can we stay ahead of
that? You know, we can bring outthe latest technology, and then
we might see them respond. Andso we got to keep being ahead of
it. And from my perspective,overhaul, being device agnostic
and being able to leverage thevariety of different IoT sources
(17:31):
across many of themanufacturers, gives us that
advantage because we're not tiedinto a specific type of device.
We've introduced new things thisyear, such as the Bluetooth
seal, where it's a seal that'son the back of the trailer, and
when it's cut, it communicateswith the device that's inside to
let them understand that. Youknow, this has now been
(17:52):
targeted, and it's a definitethis, this door has been opened.
So you know, our flexibilitythere from a data point of view.
Then there's door switches thatcan be installed for when the
door opens, and a lot ofdifferent solutions and
configurations like that and andit's that configurability that I
think resonates most with ourcustomers, is that we're able to
respond, you know, and be veryagile to these challenges that
(18:14):
occur as criminals get moresophisticated. Is there a, I
guess, a recommended tech stackfor somebody to avoid fraud in
particular, like you mentionedthe Bluetooth device, maybe the
door sensors. What would if youwere starting a trucking company
and you were worried about yourfreight? How would you secure
(18:34):
it? Great question. And youknow, it honestly comes down to
to the use case. You know, areyou multi modal? Are you using
rail? Are you shipping overoverseas or air vessel? Because
there's a lot of differentintelligence that we can pull
into those, you know, containertracking or master air way build
tracking to understand if theroute is changing dynamically
(18:55):
and make sure, because that'sone of the most important
things. Is how accurate is thedata from A to B, and are you
able to define, you know, thelanes and the risks that might
be occurring there? But youknow, maybe, just to try and
answer your question, I do thinkincorporating a Bluetooth seal
or a door switch depending onyou know how you're going to be
shipping, those are thesolutions today that I think are
the most effective to combatingit, and yeah, having multiple
(19:18):
integrations and data sources.
So for example, what we'llalways strive for as a device an
IoT agnostic company is, can weintegrate the ELD or the
telematics that are going to beon the tractor trailer? Can we
combine that with an IoT source?
So for example, if a trailer gotseparated, or if cargo got got
separated, you're understandingthat separation, because we have
(19:40):
multiple data points in realtime on that shipment. So yes,
there are configurations that Ithink are the, you know, best in
class with, with seal and doorswitches. But then I also think
just continuing to push andincorporating more of what's
already out there into overhaul,and then we can detect any
separation.
Or anomalies that occur outsideof just, sort of, you know, the,
(20:03):
I guess, the IoT devices, or,you know, the fraud watch. Is
there any like, sort of, justbase level things that companies
can do to try to avoid theirrisk profile? Yeah, I think
that, you know, going to thepreventative measure, and that's
where we've really been focusingmore of our attention on the
last couple of years, because Ithink we've done a fantastic job
(20:25):
for the in transit, A to B, onceit's left. Got extensive Law
Enforcement Network to back usup there, but it's really about
being more preventative. So youknow, working with us to look at
your carrier network, look atthe lanes and regions, seeing
what's the theft profile forthose for those lanes? Are you
an electronics customer who'soperating on a lane or region
(20:46):
that has seen a growth inelectronics theft? So that's the
the base level thing is justgetting ahead of it, and what
we've termed shifting left, backinto, you know, the network, the
lanes, the regions. And just asyou're setting up for maybe, you
know q3 q4 launches of newproducts or things that you know
will be targeted. It's justdoing that work ahead of time to
(21:07):
ensure you know you're as safe,secure as you can be. But you
know, nothing is perfect.
There's always ways it canhappen, so but, but I do feel
the preventive measures arewhat's what's really important.
So say you're you're a company,and you you've done the hard
work of you've got thepreventative measures in place.
You've got, you know, fraud,watch. What happens if it still
gets stolen? What happens ifthere's still an issue? Does
(21:29):
overhaul play a role in that?
And, yeah, and look, obviously,you know, you don't want to see
that happen, but of course, itdoes happen, and that's where,
you know, I think that we'veexcelled, is in response, I
think it's a 96% recovery whensomething does get stolen. And
we have extremely detailed,extensive networks globally with
(21:50):
law enforcement. I think therewas a theft in Poland on a rail
shipment, and we had boots onthe ground law enforcement there
within 20 minutes, I think justover 10 minutes. And this is in
the middle of nowhere, you know,really out there. And that just
speaks to kind of how extensivethat that network is. And so, to
(22:10):
answer your question, what wewould typically see is an event
that occurs in the system. So,you know, maybe the IoT sources
come off Route, or it's deviatedfrom
the delivery location that it'sbeen moving towards, or perhaps
we see a sensor event like that,seal open or
(22:30):
door switch, things like that.
And so what we would do at thatpoint is, once the event is
generated, it goes in front ofour security operators team. So
we kind of have two stages. Weget a lot of raw data into our
system. We have over 7 billiondata points now of that raw in
transit risk monitoring datathat gets assessed by the
overhaul rules engine. Oncesomething is triggered there
(22:51):
that gets routed to theappropriate personnel. So if
it's something like a seal breakthat might go direct to the
Intelligence Team, they'll kickoff their response with law
enforcement and say, Hey, weknow that something bad happened
here. Get law enforcementinvolved, and then respond. They
kick off a session where they'llhave, you know, the intelligence
team member law enforcementcontacts there, and they'll
(23:12):
respond and get people on theground to recover that or track
that. And you know, it's, it'sreally interesting. You see
some, you know, high speedchases, and it's pretty intense
a lot, you know, really, like Isaid, going back to Fast and
Furious, it's not too far offthe what does your what
something like that happens?
What does like your company looklike? Is it like a war room
(23:34):
where everybody is, you know, onthe phone and checking systems,
and, yeah, you know, we've,we've got the process down in
procedure. So it's not likesomething where it's an all
hands on deck. We've got theappropriate people who are
working, you know, to respondand resolve these events. So
it's, it's pretty likeclockwork, procedural things
happen. It goes through thatprocess of getting the right
person in, in touch, monitoring,responding to the event. So
(23:57):
it's, it's really, you know,obviously, I'm on the technology
side and product side, and Ilove what we've been able to do,
but I'm always in awe of the lawenforcement guys and how they've
kind of built that network andcommunicate. It's just super
efficient. Yeah, it's just, Ithink it's absolutely crazy
that, you know, this not crazy,because I think fraud and just
sort of cargo theft has alwaysexisted since, you know, the
(24:19):
dawn of man, but how it hasevolved over even just the last
handful of years, and how itcontinues to evolve. And it's
just this constant game of, likecriminals trying to, you know,
one up the tech providers likeyourself, and the, you know, the
risk providers or riskprotection like overhaul. And so
it's an interesting, like catcat and mouse game that just
(24:39):
continues to evolve. Last couplequestions here, is there
anything important that youthink you should mention that we
haven't already talkedabout? You know, I think also
you touched on the fundraisingthere. And you know, that's
we're continuing to invest inour AI solutions as well. And
you know, our machine learningand.
(25:00):
Data capabilities. We completedan acquisition a couple of years
ago that basically doubled theamount of in transit security
events that we had in oursystem. And it actually was very
well timed with Gen AI and theemergence of that as a
technology that people wanted toleverage, because it made us
centralize our data repository,where as part of acquiring that
(25:21):
company and bringing in thatdata set, we knew we would need
a more refined and robust datainfrastructure architecture. And
so what that meant is that wehave all this data that
basically everything that's inthe overhaul ecosystem lives
there, and then, when GPT cameabout, it meant that we could
easily pass that data back andforth. So, you know, while
(25:42):
people are talking about AI andhow it can affect business, you
know, it really depends on howhow good that data set is and
how rich it is. And so we werevery fortunate that we went
through all that effort tocentralize it just as GPT
emerged, and now we're able topass that back and forth. So,
you know, I just, I do want tocall out that today, GPT is the
worst it'll ever be, or Gen AIis worst. So it's important to
(26:04):
incorporate that as much as youcan into the functionality and
products that we're building,because then we'll grow as that
continues to develop. And then,just on the, you know, the
funding also, you know,continuing to look at M and A as
you know, referring to thatprevious acquisition that helped
us bolster the securityperspective and the data set we
(26:25):
had there. And so we're alwayslooking to expand and grow into
adjacent markets and improve ourvisibility and the data that we
have. So that would be somethingfor this year as well as we
continue to assess what's outthere and how we can bring more
value to what we do today, Iimagine that data migration
project was killers, absolutely.
Yeah, that was, how did it take?
(26:47):
So we actually had a six monthtimeline on it, so it was very
hands on deck, yeah, but youknow that on the infrastructure
side, that's one of the areasthat I'm most proud of. Got a
fantastic team there that wasable to, you know, get that
done, while also competingprojects that you go through as
an acquisition anyway. So thetimeline was aggressive, but
yeah, we've got a great team,thankfully. That's awesome. Six
(27:09):
months. That's very admirable,because I'm thinking of like,
all these different data setsthat you have in order to
rework, I guess, thearchitecture, and then migrate
all of those into that newarchitecture and have a talk to
an LLM like, that is a majorundertaking. Yeah, kudos to you.
I'm sure it was a nice vacationat the end of that, six months,
still waiting on it. I guessthat's sort of the nature of the
(27:30):
beast when it comes to fraudprevention and risk assessment
and things like that in thisindustry constantly evolving.
Yep, yeah, exactly. And, youknow, it's the data, and it's
incorporating, you know, in myopinion, humans into that to
enrich and refine and createthat loop where, you know the
system is assessing the rawdata, but then you have that
enrichment. When it gets to thatlaw enforcement escalation, you
(27:53):
have somebody that's thenlabeling it, tagging it, and
it's going back into the system,and it's continually improving
and making our solution moreintelligent. That's a hell of a
way to end it.
Perfect ending. Laura, SoJonathan, where can, where can
folks follow you? Follow yourwork, get maybe get a demo with
overhaul all that good stuff.
Yeah, I think over dashhall.com,
(28:15):
that's our marketing site.
That's the best place to go. Andthen can also follow us on
LinkedIn. Awesome pleasure.
Thank you very much. Thank you.
I hope you enjoyed this episodeof everything is logistics, a
podcast for the thinkers infreight, telling the stories
behind how your favorite stuffand people get from point A to
(28:37):
B. Subscribe to the show. Signup for our newsletter and follow
our socials over at everythingis logistics.com
and in addition to the podcast,I also wanted to let you all
know about another company Ioperate, and that's digital
dispatch, where we help youbuild a better website. Now, a
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I'll see you all.
Real soon and go jags. You.
Welcome into another episode of everything is
logistics, a podcast for thethinkers in freight. I am your
host, Blythe Milligan, and weare probably sponsored by SPI
logistics, and we've got onemore, our last interview at
manifest, the future of supplychain and logistics, at least
the last live one. And we've gota repeat company, not repeat,
yes, but a repeat company comingback on the show. We got
(00:27):
Jonathan Ryan Overhaul's, ChiefProduct Technology Officer, to
talk about the state of cargocrime for 2025 along with a new,
I guess, a product that you guysare launching. Here are you. Is
the press release dropped today.
I don't believe it droppedtoday. I think it dropped it a
little while ago. But, yeah,going to talk more. Going to
talk more about it gotcha, andthat is your new fraud. Watch AI
solution, the 55 million infunding that they announced
(00:50):
previously, as well as broadertrends happening in supply chain
risk management and cargo riftrisk Theft Prevention space. So
that was a mouthful for myself,so I'm going to let the expert
take over from here. AndJonathan. Give us a give us a
preview. Give us an overview ofhow you got into logistics. How
you got into, you know, workingfor overhaul, all that good
stuff. Yep. So, you know,unfortunately, I don't have a 20
(01:12):
year story to tell you about howI got into supply chain
logistics, but I completed acomputer science degree in
Ireland. I'm from Ireland andworked in finance for a year in
Ireland. Really wanted to go tothe US and explore more on the
technology side and get intosomething there. And I kind of
expected, after a year in theUS, I'd return to Ireland and
have to find a new company, butcome back with some experience.
(01:34):
But I found overhaul. And, youknow, I started working in the
product and kind of tech supportspace eight years ago, almost
nine years ago now. And youknow, one of the lucky things
about that, I guess, is it meantwearing a lot of hats. And as we
kind of pivoted into the SaaSsolution that we have today, I
moved more into the productspace, engineering space. And
over the years, then, as wefound that product market fit,
(01:57):
moved into engineeringmanagement, VP of Engineering,
and then year and a half ago, weconsolidated the product and
engineering orgs intotechnology, and then I moved
into the cpto role. And so withyour your role, with overhaul,
what does sort of a day to daylook like for you? There is no
one single day for sure. But youknow, we have a we've a global
team, engineers and productmanagers. So a lot of what I try
(02:19):
to do is just make sure thateverybody's on the same page
around what we want to achieve,what are some of the challenges
we're facing. You know, what Ireally like to try and
incorporate into all of ourtechnology teams is good
industry understanding. I thinkit's really important that
whether you're an engineer orproduct manager, you understand
the space, and you know whyyou're solving the problem, and
(02:41):
so it's a lot of thatcoordination, and then also
just, you know, working with oursales marketing that go to
market strategy, things likethat, and are really just, you
know, pretty broad still, Ithink we're coming out of that
startup phase, and we've beenout for a while, but as someone
who joined the company fairlyearly, you know, you still kind
of wear quite a few hats and tryto solve, tackle quite a few
(03:03):
problems. So from a high level,what does sort of risk and prod
fraud prevention look like inthe modern day 2025, logistics
company? Yeah, yeah. And, Imean, that's the that's the
first question everybody asksis, what does risk mean to you?
And so, you know, our softwareis risk management solution
across a variety of differentrisks. So the risk might be on
time performance ETAs and therisk that that means to your
(03:25):
customers not arriving on time,and how it can affect your
relationship. But moretraditionally, what we focus on
is security and risk. And sowhat that means is the actual
integrity of the goods and theload, and also the the safety of
the driver is part of that aswell. And so what will what we
set out to achieve is, you know,first and foremost, be
preventative. You don't want tostolen goods. You don't want
(03:47):
pilferages That you're having torespond to. So we try to,
through incorporation of ourtechnology technology, improve
our customer supply chains bybringing in best in class
processes, procedures, tryingnot to overwhelm, you know, I
think it's important that you'reable to keep very close to the
procedures and processes theyfollow today, but incorporate
technology in the right placesso that you can get that data
(04:10):
back and help continuallymonitor and improve their
network you just mentioned, youknow, sort of the, I guess, the
safety of the driver, which is,I think I haven't really heard
any other sort of riskprevention, fraud prevention
company talk about, can youexpand on that a little more?
Yeah. I mean, you know, in theearly days, before we kind of
pivoted into the SaaS solution,that was something that we were,
(04:31):
we were very focused on, was,how can we help the drivers,
carriers, you know, find thesehigher value shipments and
loads, and somebody who's beenperforming, you know, at a very
high level for years, but maybestruggling to get into that
continual, reoccurringoperations. And so as part of
that driver focus, you know, wewanted to ensure that there was
safety from their perspective aswell, particularly when you're
(04:54):
operating globally in some ofthese more dynamic environments
where there.
Jonathan Ryan (05:00):
Can be, you know, concerns around that. I think
that's as important as ensuringthe cargo. You know,
Unknown (05:06):
when I had a previous guest from from overhaul on the
show, we were talking before werecorded that, they had
mentioned all of the, I guess,the differences between
countries of Brazil versusMexico versus the United States,
of how they try to have, youknow, try to implement fraud
prevention, risk, riskmanagement, things like that.
I'm curious how that's evolved.
What is sort of, I guess, a highlevel process look like, because
(05:29):
you mentioned that some of thosethings that are happening in
other countries are now comingto the United States, yeah, and
so maybe to even take a stepback a little bit and speak to
what overhaul does. So we are asoftware company, and we look at
integrating all of the variousdata that already exists out
there. And so we're nothardware. We don't build
devices, but we do integratewith them, and we are device and
(05:51):
IoT agnostic. And so what thatallows us to do via maybe TMS,
ERP, WMS, OMS integrations, iscreate that customer shipment,
and then, via our telematics,ELD IoT integrations, populate
that shipment with with thosedata sources and those pings
that that allow us to track ashipment. And so what that does
from the security perspectivethen, and maybe getting into you
(06:16):
know, what we see acrossdifferent regions
that provides a higher level ofvisibility and higher frequency
and a higher resolution network.
And so when it comes to cargotheft, you know, what we've
typically seen in areas like ourregions like Mexico, Brazil,
(06:37):
is a lot more risk to the driverin those areas. And it can be,
you know, I'm not sure what theright word to put on it is, but,
you know, an environment wherethe driver is definitely, you
know, a little more aware of theissues they might might
encounter while on the road. Butwhat we've seen over the last,
you know, couple of years is alot of those methods that were
happening overseas, outside ofthe US, actually come into the
(07:01):
US now, and we've seen thingssuch as the Romanian role. I
don't know if you're familiarwith that, but it's honestly
like something straight out ofFast and Furious. You know,
where the load is moving downthe road at high speeds, and
they're actually pilfering itand unloading the cargo while in
motion, and taking things out ofthe back of the trailer. So
that's just an example of someof the methods that we've seen
(07:22):
that have started to become morefrequent in the US, where we had
typically seen them overseas.
Wow, that is absolutely insane.
There was another thing, and Idon't know if this is happening
yet in the United States, butthere was another thing that he
had mentioned that for inBrazil, they almost try to
recruit high schoolers to, youknow, get into with the cartels
(07:45):
and the local gangs withinBrazil, and then they recruit
them to start working atdifferent logistics companies.
And so then they have an in oncethat person graduates high
school, or graduates theirschooling, and then goes and
works for these logisticscompanies. Yeah, absolutely. You
know, that's not something thatwe've encountered too much of in
the US. But you know what tiesin similar, very closely to
(08:07):
that, is that you know people onthe inside and you know carrier
companies that are set up andtrying to look as reputable as
as can be. But part of what ourfraud watch solution does is it
incorporates, first of all, youknow, a very rich historical
data set that we have from anintelligence perspective, but
(08:28):
then also integrating with thirdparty data source, sources such
as the FMCSA data, along with avariety of other sources. And so
what that helps us identify arethose illegitimate carriers or
carriers that are trying toappear as if, as if they're
legitimate, and they've beenworking in the industry for a
while, and so that's where ourfraud watch. When a carrier is
entered into the system as partof the process, I was able to
(08:50):
flag that, hey, this afterpassing through our rules
engine, this doesn't meet thecriteria that we would expect.
And you might want to, you know,reconsider shipping that load
with this carrier. That's superinteresting. And so it's almost
like an alert system prior tomaybe it becoming a problem.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And maybejust even speak a little more to
fraud watch in that context. Soa big problem that a lot of our
(09:14):
customers had, and that a lot ofpeople still have in the
industry, is double brokeringand shipment being created,
maybe via their TMS platform,and, you know, a certain carrier
being assigned, but then whoactually shows up on the day to
pick up that load? And that'swhere we have software that's
available at the dock thatallows them to capture the
carrier who's showing up at thattime, and then we assess it
(09:36):
against who was the originallybooked carrier through the TMS
and then compare if that'sdouble brokered, and then at
that same time, run that throughour fraud watch system to be
able to understand, you know,is, has it been operating for
more than six months? Is theremore than one driver there? Do
they have more than one tractortrailer registered? There's a
lot of these different nuances,you know, that we've understood
(09:56):
through our our history, butalso through our intelligence
teams that work at overhaul.
Yeah, it's really kind of defineand make that fraud watch
product very useful andimpactful for our customers. And
so when somebody is using fraudwatch, is it almost like they're
they have a screen open on, youknow, say, like a traditional
like broker's office orsomething. They have four
(10:18):
screens, and they're bookinglows or calling their sourcing
carriers, or doing all of thatstuff. Do they have fraud watch
as like one on some one of theirscreens as they're looking at on
a day to day basis? So there's,actually, there's a few
different ways that they can usefraud watch. And so first and
foremost fraud watch is, youknow, preventative, and we try
(10:40):
not, as I said before, todisrupt their flow of how they
do things. So for example, if ifthey want to create shipments in
a TMS, then at that time, via anAPI, we will assess the carrier
that they've assigned so thatcan be completely hands off,
just through the TMS system, andthen we can send that as a
notification or an alert towhoever at the at the customer
(11:01):
wants to be notified of that, tosay that, hey, you've
potentially put a risky carrieron on this load. So that's kind
of hands off approach. Then wehave software that can, you
know, be loaded onto a tablet, amobile application. And we're
also looking at app list,because who doesn't have app
fatigue at this point? Andthat's where it can be a little
more hands on, where you'recapturing at that point of
(11:23):
departure who the carrier is,and so that's that's alerting
that to you. But then, as youmentioned, there is also a web
app that has the carrierdashboard where you can enter
carriers in. And you know, maybeit's not that one time checkout
where you're assessing thatparticular carrier, but you're
uploading multiple carriers, andyou're getting that bulk check
and just assessing your networkfor any of the latest risks. So
(11:46):
exception management, maybe,yeah, yeah, exactly. And one
thing is that, you know, peoplewill will talk about AI every
other second. Word here isprobably going to be AI, but you
know, you're only as good as thedata that you have and the
intelligence that you have, andthat's where on the overhaul
side, something that is veryunique to us, is 16 years worth
(12:07):
of intelligence data from anintelligence team who has worked
in this space. You know, we havesome former law enforcement with
over 80 years between them whoare working in tandem with huh?
So you actually have officerstoo that are working for
overhaul, yeah, yeah, exactly.
And so, you know, we really aimto combine machine learning AI
data, but with subject matterexperts as well, you know, to
(12:31):
validate, to review, of course,not every shipment that ever
travels is captured in overhaul.
So we do have otherintegrations, and we do have
team members that are focused onunderstanding what are the
latest trends, what do we needto be able to respond to? I can
actually give you anotherexample of something that we're
seeing and how I would love tosee it here. So that was gonna
(12:51):
be my next question. Is heresome of those latest trends,
commodities that are targeted,maybe.
So there's been a 50% increasefrom 2023 to 2024 in cargo
theft, and 30% of that has beenaround electronics. So
electronics is heavily, heavilytargeted. 50% of that has been
pilferage, and I think 25% hasbeen full truckload. So you
(13:15):
know, we're seeing a big uptickin cargo theft. But you know, to
speak the overhaul, one thing wedo also see is that, for the
goods that are targetedfrequently or are maybe more
high value, one out of every2000 loads that aren't monitored
by overhaul will see a theftevent, you know, maybe a
attempted pilferage, a pilferagethings like that. Does that
(13:37):
mean, you know, somebody'strying to steal, like the
Romanian road, that what youwere talking Yeah, they're just
trying to take, you know, acouple of couple of boxes off
the back, maybe some TV screens,consoles, things like that, you
know, just trying to use themoment get away with, with what
they can. And so that's one in2000 that we see targeted that
aren't monitored by overhaul.
But then when you are monitoredby overhaul, it's one in 35,000
(13:57):
so our preventative measures iswhat we really focus on, as you
don't get yourself into thatsituation where you're
susceptible to cargo theft, oryou're driving on a lane or in a
region, or using a carrier whois going to, you know,
potentially put that load atrisk. And so that's, you know,
super interesting stat, I think,from our side, is that we are,
(14:18):
you know, continuously beatingthat industry trend for those
who target high value goods. Butsorry, I forgot. I was going to
get back to the the example. Andso one thing that we're seeing
is speaking to thesophistication of Cairo
criminals today is that theywill take the bol at a at an
origin facility, and then get intransit, and they'll actually
(14:39):
have printers in the cab withthem to Doctor the bol and then
show up at the deliverylocation, give the you know,
receiver, the updated BOL, andthen leave with you know, the
rest of of the goods. And sothat's where that double
brokering and preventative stepis so important, and that's the
kind of issue that fraud watchis.
(15:00):
Acting. And honestly, that'sbeen that's been growing
rapidly. Wow. What are someother, maybe trends that are
evolving? Because I have heard,I think it was around 2020, or
maybe 2021 that it wasn'tnecessarily electronics that
were being targeted. It was morelike perishables. So energy
drinks, where, I think, were abig one, pistachios were also a
big one. Are there any otherlike commodities? Maybe, because
(15:23):
for a lot of, I think, for theaudience, for a lot of those
examples, there's no trackingthose products, because once
they're eaten or used, that youcan't find, you know, a VIN
number or UPC number on the backof that, versus like an
electronic device. So I'mcurious if you know any of those
other sort of commodity trendsyou're seeing in your data?
Yeah. I think, you know, one ofthe recent stories that came up
(15:46):
was maybe you saw it around theeggs, eggs
being stolen? No. And so, youknow that kind of speaks. Did
you see an X Wing stolen? Sorry,eggs.
I knew the Irish accent wasgonna get me in trouble here.
Yeah, and so and so we sawrecently, and I think, you know,
it hit pretty much mainstreamnews as well, around eggs being
(16:07):
stolen. And that, you know,speaks to how agile a lot of
these cargo criminals are,because it's not necessarily
about the value of the goods,it's also about demand. And so,
you know, eggs is somethingthat's been very topical over
this last while. And so theyknow, and a lot of these carrot
criminals are also wholesalers,the good one, the good ones. And
(16:29):
so to them, it's about marginand how quickly you can shift
that. And so sometimes, when yousee something like demand for
eggs, and you know that there'smarket there for it, that's
actually, you know, there's canbe more incentive than going and
taking TVs, because they knowthat they can just move that so
quickly, and it's once it'sgone, it's gone, there's no
traceability to it. What othertrends, I guess, are you seeing
(16:50):
for maybe, you know, 2025, andbeyond? You know, I really just
do think that it's the continuedsophistication of how these
cargo criminals are operating. Ithink that example that I gave
of the updated bol shows thatthey're much more familiar with
what's happening in terms of howpeople are monitoring goods and
(17:10):
how they're responding to it andand so that's, you know,
a constant evolution on our sideis, how can we stay ahead of
that? You know, we can bring outthe latest technology, and then
we might see them respond. Andso we got to keep being ahead of
it. And from my perspective,overhaul, being device agnostic
and being able to leverage thevariety of different IoT sources
(17:31):
across many of themanufacturers, gives us that
advantage because we're not tiedinto a specific type of device.
We've introduced new things thisyear, such as the Bluetooth
seal, where it's a seal that'son the back of the trailer, and
when it's cut, it communicateswith the device that's inside to
let them understand that. Youknow, this has now been
(17:52):
targeted, and it's a definitethis, this door has been opened.
So you know, our flexibilitythere from a data point of view.
Then there's door switches thatcan be installed for when the
door opens, and a lot ofdifferent solutions and
configurations like that and andit's that configurability that I
think resonates most with ourcustomers, is that we're able to
respond, you know, and be veryagile to these challenges that
(18:14):
occur as criminals get moresophisticated. Is there a, I
guess, a recommended tech stackfor somebody to avoid fraud in
particular, like you mentionedthe Bluetooth device, maybe the
door sensors. What would if youwere starting a trucking company
and you were worried about yourfreight? How would you secure
(18:34):
it? Great question. And youknow, it honestly comes down to
to the use case. You know, areyou multi modal? Are you using
rail? Are you shipping overoverseas or air vessel? Because
there's a lot of differentintelligence that we can pull
into those, you know, containertracking or master air way build
tracking to understand if theroute is changing dynamically
(18:55):
and make sure, because that'sone of the most important
things. Is how accurate is thedata from A to B, and are you
able to define, you know, thelanes and the risks that might
be occurring there? But youknow, maybe, just to try and
answer your question, I do thinkincorporating a Bluetooth seal
or a door switch depending onyou know how you're going to be
shipping, those are thesolutions today that I think are
the most effective to combatingit, and yeah, having multiple
(19:18):
integrations and data sources.
So for example, what we'llalways strive for as a device an
IoT agnostic company is, can weintegrate the ELD or the
telematics that are going to beon the tractor trailer? Can we
combine that with an IoT source?
So for example, if a trailer gotseparated, or if cargo got got
separated, you're understandingthat separation, because we have
(19:40):
multiple data points in realtime on that shipment. So yes,
there are configurations that Ithink are the, you know, best in
class with, with seal and doorswitches. But then I also think
just continuing to push andincorporating more of what's
already out there into overhaul,and then we can detect any
separation.
Or anomalies that occur outsideof just, sort of, you know, the,
(20:03):
I guess, the IoT devices, or,you know, the fraud watch. Is
there any like, sort of, justbase level things that companies
can do to try to avoid theirrisk profile? Yeah, I think
that, you know, going to thepreventative measure, and that's
where we've really been focusingmore of our attention on the
last couple of years, because Ithink we've done a fantastic job
(20:25):
for the in transit, A to B, onceit's left. Got extensive Law
Enforcement Network to back usup there, but it's really about
being more preventative. So youknow, working with us to look at
your carrier network, look atthe lanes and regions, seeing
what's the theft profile forthose for those lanes? Are you
an electronics customer who'soperating on a lane or region
(20:46):
that has seen a growth inelectronics theft? So that's the
the base level thing is justgetting ahead of it, and what
we've termed shifting left, backinto, you know, the network, the
lanes, the regions. And just asyou're setting up for maybe, you
know q3 q4 launches of newproducts or things that you know
will be targeted. It's justdoing that work ahead of time to
(21:07):
ensure you know you're as safe,secure as you can be. But you
know, nothing is perfect.
There's always ways it canhappen, so but, but I do feel
the preventive measures arewhat's what's really important.
So say you're you're a company,and you you've done the hard
work of you've got thepreventative measures in place.
You've got, you know, fraud,watch. What happens if it still
gets stolen? What happens ifthere's still an issue? Does
(21:29):
overhaul play a role in that?
And, yeah, and look, obviously,you know, you don't want to see
that happen, but of course, itdoes happen, and that's where,
you know, I think that we'veexcelled, is in response, I
think it's a 96% recovery whensomething does get stolen. And
we have extremely detailed,extensive networks globally with
(21:50):
law enforcement. I think therewas a theft in Poland on a rail
shipment, and we had boots onthe ground law enforcement there
within 20 minutes, I think justover 10 minutes. And this is in
the middle of nowhere, you know,really out there. And that just
speaks to kind of how extensivethat that network is. And so, to
(22:10):
answer your question, what wewould typically see is an event
that occurs in the system. So,you know, maybe the IoT sources
come off Route, or it's deviatedfrom
the delivery location that it'sbeen moving towards, or perhaps
we see a sensor event like that,seal open or
(22:30):
door switch, things like that.
And so what we would do at thatpoint is, once the event is
generated, it goes in front ofour security operators team. So
we kind of have two stages. Weget a lot of raw data into our
system. We have over 7 billiondata points now of that raw in
transit risk monitoring datathat gets assessed by the
overhaul rules engine. Oncesomething is triggered there
(22:51):
that gets routed to theappropriate personnel. So if
it's something like a seal breakthat might go direct to the
Intelligence Team, they'll kickoff their response with law
enforcement and say, Hey, weknow that something bad happened
here. Get law enforcementinvolved, and then respond. They
kick off a session where they'llhave, you know, the intelligence
team member law enforcementcontacts there, and they'll
(23:12):
respond and get people on theground to recover that or track
that. And you know, it's, it'sreally interesting. You see
some, you know, high speedchases, and it's pretty intense
a lot, you know, really, like Isaid, going back to Fast and
Furious, it's not too far offthe what does your what
something like that happens?
What does like your company looklike? Is it like a war room
(23:34):
where everybody is, you know, onthe phone and checking systems,
and, yeah, you know, we've,we've got the process down in
procedure. So it's not likesomething where it's an all
hands on deck. We've got theappropriate people who are
working, you know, to respondand resolve these events. So
it's, it's pretty likeclockwork, procedural things
happen. It goes through thatprocess of getting the right
person in, in touch, monitoring,responding to the event. So
(23:57):
it's, it's really, you know,obviously, I'm on the technology
side and product side, and Ilove what we've been able to do,
but I'm always in awe of the lawenforcement guys and how they've
kind of built that network andcommunicate. It's just super
efficient. Yeah, it's just, Ithink it's absolutely crazy
that, you know, this not crazy,because I think fraud and just
sort of cargo theft has alwaysexisted since, you know, the
(24:19):
dawn of man, but how it hasevolved over even just the last
handful of years, and how itcontinues to evolve. And it's
just this constant game of, likecriminals trying to, you know,
one up the tech providers likeyourself, and the, you know, the
risk providers or riskprotection like overhaul. And so
it's an interesting, like catcat and mouse game that just
(24:39):
continues to evolve. Last couplequestions here, is there
anything important that youthink you should mention that we
haven't already talkedabout? You know, I think also
you touched on the fundraisingthere. And you know, that's
we're continuing to invest inour AI solutions as well. And
you know, our machine learningand.
(25:00):
Data capabilities. We completedan acquisition a couple of years
ago that basically doubled theamount of in transit security
events that we had in oursystem. And it actually was very
well timed with Gen AI and theemergence of that as a
technology that people wanted toleverage, because it made us
centralize our data repository,where as part of acquiring that
(25:21):
company and bringing in thatdata set, we knew we would need
a more refined and robust datainfrastructure architecture. And
so what that meant is that wehave all this data that
basically everything that's inthe overhaul ecosystem lives
there, and then, when GPT cameabout, it meant that we could
easily pass that data back andforth. So, you know, while
(25:42):
people are talking about AI andhow it can affect business, you
know, it really depends on howhow good that data set is and
how rich it is. And so we werevery fortunate that we went
through all that effort tocentralize it just as GPT
emerged, and now we're able topass that back and forth. So,
you know, I just, I do want tocall out that today, GPT is the
worst it'll ever be, or Gen AIis worst. So it's important to
(26:04):
incorporate that as much as youcan into the functionality and
products that we're building,because then we'll grow as that
continues to develop. And then,just on the, you know, the
funding also, you know,continuing to look at M and A as
you know, referring to thatprevious acquisition that helped
us bolster the securityperspective and the data set we
(26:25):
had there. And so we're alwayslooking to expand and grow into
adjacent markets and improve ourvisibility and the data that we
have. So that would be somethingfor this year as well as we
continue to assess what's outthere and how we can bring more
value to what we do today, Iimagine that data migration
project was killers, absolutely.
Yeah, that was, how did it take?
(26:47):
So we actually had a six monthtimeline on it, so it was very
hands on deck, yeah, but youknow that on the infrastructure
side, that's one of the areasthat I'm most proud of. Got a
fantastic team there that wasable to, you know, get that
done, while also competingprojects that you go through as
an acquisition anyway. So thetimeline was aggressive, but
yeah, we've got a great team,thankfully. That's awesome. Six
(27:09):
months. That's very admirable,because I'm thinking of like,
all these different data setsthat you have in order to
rework, I guess, thearchitecture, and then migrate
all of those into that newarchitecture and have a talk to
an LLM like, that is a majorundertaking. Yeah, kudos to you.
I'm sure it was a nice vacationat the end of that, six months,
still waiting on it. I guessthat's sort of the nature of the
(27:30):
beast when it comes to fraudprevention and risk assessment
and things like that in thisindustry constantly evolving.
Yep, yeah, exactly. And, youknow, it's the data, and it's
incorporating, you know, in myopinion, humans into that to
enrich and refine and createthat loop where, you know the
system is assessing the rawdata, but then you have that
enrichment. When it gets to thatlaw enforcement escalation, you
(27:53):
have somebody that's thenlabeling it, tagging it, and
it's going back into the system,and it's continually improving
and making our solution moreintelligent. That's a hell of a
way to end it.
Perfect ending. Laura, SoJonathan, where can, where can
folks follow you? Follow yourwork, get maybe get a demo with
overhaul all that good stuff.
Yeah, I think over dashhall.com,
(28:15):
that's our marketing site.
That's the best place to go. Andthen can also follow us on
LinkedIn. Awesome pleasure.
Thank you very much. Thank you.
I hope you enjoyed this episodeof everything is logistics, a
podcast for the thinkers infreight, telling the stories
behind how your favorite stuffand people get from point A to
(28:37):
B. Subscribe to the show. Signup for our newsletter and follow
our socials over at everythingis logistics.com
and in addition to the podcast,I also wanted to let you all
know about another company Ioperate, and that's digital
dispatch, where we help youbuild a better website. Now, a
lot of the times, we hand thistask of building a new website
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I'll see you all.
Real soon and go jags. You.
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