Freight Friends Reunion: How Orderful is Shaking Up EDI

Is EDI broken or just misunderstood? In this reunion episode of Freight Friends, Blythe Brumleve welcomes Grace Sharkey back to the mic to talk about her new role at Orderful, the state of freight media, and why so many companies are still struggling with EDI integrations. 

From customer horror stories to a Christmas Eve miracle involving Walmart, Grace shares why she’s betting big on solving one of freight’s most persistent pain points. 

Key takeaways: 

• Media experience is a hidden weapon for logistics companies trying to build trust and relevance 
• Grace’s new role at Orderful focuses on making EDI less painful, faster to implement, and API-friendly 
• Many brokers delay switching tech out of fear of cost when in reality, it’s the bad setup that’s costing them 
• Freight tech storytelling needs to focus more on the people using it, not just the software 
• Orderful is solving a known problem with actual working tech (that’s already saved Christmas at least once)

LINKS:

• Grace's Linktree
• Nick Stachel's LinkedIn
• Orderful's Website
• The Supply Chain Is the Product
• The Logistics of SHEIN: From Imports to Influencers

WATCH THE FULL EPISODE HERE

Feedback? Ideas for a future episode? Shoot us a text here to let us know.

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Episode Transcript

Grace Sharkey (00:05):
You're starting to see this investment more in
Vietnam and a lot of likeSoutheast Asia, Asia, but not
fully yet, but China,specifically, a lot of their
manufacturers literally haveschools right next to them where
they're training people how tomake your product really well
throughout their like, theireducational progression, right?

(00:26):
So, like, that was something youtalked about. It's like
understanding when you do makethese moves, you're not just
leaving a workforce and thinkingabout it in a tariff
perspective, but there arechances that you know your
product could change from thatit might not be put together as
well. So diversifying more,having that China plus three, so
that not every part, every pieceis being manufactured, you not

(00:47):
only are diversifying your risk,right, but you're also giving
yourself options in the futureto move around without seeing
huge losses, whether it's inyour product quality or just
product availability and howquickly it could be put together
and shipped to you.

Unknown (01:09):
We're back. It's us.
Mercy pod, favorite two hourpodcast.

Blythe Milligan (01:17):
Well, we only have a little over an hour
today, so in case you haven'trecognized that voice that is
Grace Sharkey, now of Orderfulfame, and we are back with
another Freight Friends episode.
I almost said something else. Wewere back with another freight
Friends episode. And last one werecorded, I believe, was in
December of 2024, so it's been alittle bit, you know, we catch

(01:38):
up. We've seen each other acouple of times since then, so

Unknown (01:45):
we've kept the Freight Friends in the background, and
now we're bringing it back tothe front, to your screens.
Hopefully you recognize alreadyso far that you are listening to
everything is logistics, apodcast for the thinkers at
freight. I am your host, BlytheMilligan. We are proudly
presented by SPI Logistics, andwe've got a special episode for

(02:05):
y'all today, because it isGrace's first show in her new
role, about as the time ofrecording this three days into
her new role. So Grace, welcomeback. Tell us about the new gig.
Look at me, new new job, new me.
Pink hair. Who saw it? Saw itcoming, not me. Actually, I did,
because I planned it.
Uh, hey, happy to be back, dude.
It's been so long since we'vedone these. You and I had our

(02:27):
heads down, grinded, gettingsome of our own personal stuff
figured out. And I think we're,we're finally there. So happy to
be back, dude, you're trying tofigure it out. I me on the side
with CargoRex, the site iskicking my ass still to this
day, I got, you know, about adozen emails I got to respond to
about that site. But we'removing in a good direction, and

(02:47):
it sounds like you're moving ina good direction too. Before we
get into what your role atortiful is, I would like to,
kind of, you know, just briefly,talk about, you know, maybe some
of your favorite stories, or,you know, things that you've
covered for freight waves,because that's in reality,
that's been a central part ofthis show, is being able to talk
about those stories that youhave talked about on

(03:11):
freightwaves. And so for thesake of this conversation, I
would love to know like, whatare some of the favorite stories
that you've covered maybe in thelast six months or so, since
people have last heard from youon this podcast anyways, or
maybe just all time, any storiesthat kind of stick out that you
really enjoyed covering.

(03:32):
Well, it's funny you say inDecember is like the last
episode that we had. Because ifyou were to ask me, Hey, what
if, what stories have you beenfocused on? I'd be like, Hey,
has anyone heard about tariffsrecently?
That's kind of a big Yeah, let'sstart off. We're talking about
tariffs. Yeah. So that's hasbeen a big focus, and I think

(03:54):
for good purpose, right? I mean,it's feels good again, because
our jobs are kind of like in themiddle of the more common news
you could say, and our relativesare asking us again what's going
on. And I feel valuable with myfriends and family around me
once again. So that's always agood sign, and in my career. And
so of course, if we cover a lotof tariffs, a lot of fraud, of

(04:16):
course, in the industry, I thinkthat's becoming a huge deal in
terms of just its overall impacton planning and dealing with
losses as a whole for retailers,etc. So those are, I think, our
two big areas that people areprobably seeing a little bit
more coverage on, and for veryimportant reasons. For sure, I

(04:37):
had an absolute blast though,being a part of Freightways
team. I mean, when I firststarted there, day one, I was
looking at, you know, writingthree to five articles a week. I
ended up writing over 750articles over the span of, yeah,
like four years over 400honestly, I'm guessing when I
say 400 because I didn't reallykeep track, but basic math would

(04:58):
tell me, at least over.
400 episodes on Sirius. XM,sorry, guys,
stuffy nose for all those outthere. So I gotta deal with it.
But yeah, so it was an absolutedream to be able to
learn. I think, I think what Itook from that is, is this the
importance of storytelling andespecially freight tech as an

(05:20):
industry as a whole. I mean,this is something that you are
passionate about as well. It'sabout explaining the problems
that you're solving, right andin a way that makes sense to
people, and it hits people andresonates with people at the end
of the day, for all those outthere watching all our free tech
salesmans, you know, findingthose triggers that get people
to say, you know, what thisproduct might be for me, and

(05:44):
I had a blast doing that. And Ihad a blast, you know, meeting
some of the most incrediblepeople this industry talk about,
you know, the Shelley Simpsonsof the world and Brad Jacobs of
the world, and getting close topeople like, one of my favorite
friendships I made while atfreightwaves is Kevin Nolen. I I
love that guy, Kevin, if you'rewatching, I love you my dude.

(06:07):
You know that. I don't have totell you that, but I, when I was
at Fifth Wheel, like I looked atKevin Nolen as, like, my number
one competitor, I was like,Who's this dude that owns? NTG,
like, we're going to destroyhim. And now he's just like,
it's not only a friend, but justlike someone I can talk to about
business and this into aboutbusiness in this industry, and
and and all those within youknow that that Nolen family, so

(06:29):
Creek family, right, like Graceover at OTR and Brett over at
marquee, like that. I love thatgroup of people, and I'm really
excited to watch them grow too.
That's a big one. But you know,just being able to talk to so
many different companies and andhear about people's problems and
how they're fixing them, and andlearn about not just technology,
technology from the user side,but even the investor side of

(06:51):
it, what they're looking for,what, what, you know, AI, right,
took a boom during my time atfreightwaves, and I got to Be a
part of those discussions andexplaining that those type of
tools to to our audience too.
And so it was very hard for meto leave because, of course, I
love building thoserelationships. But what's really

(07:13):
great is, now that I'm in thisrole at orderful, I hope to, you
know, take all the industryexperience and apply it to a
company who I think is doingreally great things and and
really use that expertise, Ithink, in a different way. And I
you know this, because, youknow, we're friends, and those
who are close to me, you knowthis, but my background comes

(07:34):
from being in the trenches andgetting stuff done at a company.
And I'm not saying that didn'thappen at freight ways, but at
freeways, you know, you're kindof a little bit on your in your
own island, like you're thewriting schedules, up to you,
the podcast, everything's up toyou. You do work as a team, but
I, I was an operations girl,strategy girl, that type of

(07:58):
role, and I'm really excited tobe a part of a team who has, at
least, I'm only on day three,but at least on day three has
made me feel like they want toleverage that and appreciate
that and kind of get back into,you know, the work. And I think
a lot of people say, you know,at least journalists, right? Oh
yeah, journalists, they'reworking, but they're not doing

(08:19):
it. So I'm like, I'm reallyexcited to get back into doing
it, if that makes sense. Yeah,it definitely makes sense.
Because I think for a lot offolks, and I've said on the show
for years, like you would, somany companies would benefit
from having somebody with mediaexperience to be within their
company, because they can helpthem craft messaging, they can
help them do research. They canhelp develop that human to human

(08:42):
connection and withfreightwaves, when you work for
them, it's almost like onsteroids, because you're not
just doing it for one company.
You are doing it for so manycompanies, and you're reporting
on it and you're talking aboutit. But it is different from
actually dealing with the 700emails that you're going to get

(09:03):
from support or from developmentteams or from customers, you
know, just miscellaneous stuff.
And you know, there's all thesethings that you don't anticipate
seeing when you're covering it.
And so I live in an interestingplace where I'm on both sides of
it, but I think for your talentand what you've built, and those

(09:24):
relationships that you have atat or had it still have at
freightwaves, and how thattransitions into a new
opportunity, think it makes aton of sense for a company like
Orville to be like, Yeah, weneed media experience. We need
the customer experience. We needto be able to convey that
properly in all of our differentdigital channels. And it's cool

(09:46):
to see that sort of evolutiontake place, because there have
been a few different shows thathave had that treatment, you
know, on on freightwaves, whereyou kind of, I still have, like,
instant credibility.
Me, and that was the reason whyI did a show with them for
almost two years, was you couldget that instant credibility,

(10:07):
and it leads to so many more,like just getting a foot in the
door with different companiesbecause of that. And I don't
think that this show would be assuccessful without that. You
know, pathway in my journey. AndI do call it a success because
we are essentially, you know, avery small team. We run a lean,
tight ship, but we do create alot of great content. And so

(10:31):
those were the reason I thinkthe content is good is because
of the creative team that youget to work around freightwaves.
And it's the production theboiler room, boys, you know that
we get to work with that are,you know, searching up different
B roll and trying to make sureyour show looks the best, and,
you know, just all of thesedifferent intricacies that you

(10:53):
don't see in an environment likethis. But now you get to take
everything that you've learned,not just from a media
background, but also just froman industry landscape. And
knowing what you know that theVC landscape looks like, the
technology landscape looks likeand not isolated in a single
silo within logistics. It's verylike your knowledge is very

(11:14):
widespread across the industry.
So kudos to orderful. And so Iguess any sort of last words for
because I would love to get intowhat your new role is. Yeah. So
I'm really excited because I'llbe managing PR and
communications for the company.
So a big part of the work thatI'm like focused on right now is

(11:36):
is, of course, getting orderful,becoming more of a I want to say
family name, but you know what Imean, an industry family name.
So when someone hears orderful,they know, okay, that's top Ed.
That's who we go to for EDIintegrations, right? So that's a
big part of my job, but anotherpart of that, and this is
something, again, I think yousee at freight waves. I've done

(11:57):
articles on this stuff too, butis the importance of the
partnerships aspect as well. Soa lot of the work that we do
comes from, for example, legacysystems, TMSs, etc. People are
changing the systems thatthey're working on, ERPs, etc.
And we all know that when thosechanges comes, usually some type
of EDI integration. So workingwith some of those partners that

(12:20):
we have those partners that ourcustomers have in common with
us, right? And and leveragingthat a little bit more, starting
a podcast, getting them to comeon with us, getting on stage
with those partners, so thatthey can hear about the
successful stories that theyhave. I mean, here's the thing
about orderful as well, and I'llsay this because I've written a
couple articles about them, butevery waves, you know, of

(12:41):
course, I get emails fromcompanies and pitches and things
like that, or, you know, I'veworked with a founder
endless amount. Yeah, don't evenI'm sure my unread is insanely
high still over there. Butorderful is one of the first
companies I ever wrote aboutthat came to be from a customer,
multiple customer requests.

(13:05):
Specifically, there was a buddyof mine who was growing a
startup brokerage, so we're nottalking about a huge multi,
maybe a couple million, but nota huge, huge three PL at the
time. And he called me becausehe knew that understand the
problem. And he said, Hey,there's this guy having me. He's

(13:25):
running a company calledorderful. His name is Eric, and
I had to get set up with Walmarton Christmas Eve to finish a
shipment, and we had to connectEDI in order to to work with
them. And they got them up andrunning on Christmas Eve like
the day. Wow. And that wasunheard of from from most of

(13:46):
those type of stories that I'veheard. And I was like, that's
crazy. I have to figure out why.
So, of course, I got time tomeet Eric. And Eric alone is an
incredible person, regardless ofthe business. So that's always
positive, right? When you'relooking for new opportunities.
But his shit works, you know,like his product works. And

(14:07):
every time I've talked tocustomers, or, you know, you can
check out our YouTube page. I'mposting more of this content. Of
course, linking us a little bitmore visible on social media.
But, you know, edify and largecarriers and logistics companies
out there have used it becauseit's just, it's fast, it's easy
and it's simple. And I love aproduct like that, right, who's

(14:31):
built a reputation off of doingwhat it says it's going to do,
especially for something that'sjust annoying and difficult to
deal with. I was recently at aconference, a small a small
conference closed room, and theEDI integrations came up, and I
literally I laughed, because Iknew I was going to make this
transition soon. And almosteveryone in the audience just at

(14:52):
the same time was like, rolledtheir eyes, and was like, oh,
collective grown. And I just gotYeah, and I got so excited,
because that's like, this is a.
Problem that's plagued theindustry for such a long time.
And I really want to be there tohelp tell the stories of of what
those people are experiencingand and have them understand the
wonderful work and team that'sover at waterfall getting this

(15:13):
stuff done. So yeah, if you guysare having issues with your EDI
integrations, if you're buildingthings out, if you're looking I
mean, here's the thing too.
Like, even if you're a verymanual brokerage and you're
like, we're growing fast, we'relooking to kind of plan ahead
this, you know, get us in theconversation. That's something
thatI think, for for me, like, I've

(15:33):
always heard EDI, like thephrase, and it's always been in
a negative connotation, like,it's it. I've never really, I
knew it was like, some kind ofway, you know, technology wise,
to hook into, and I'm afraid,I'm ashamed to admit this, but I
thought it was more focused on,like driver tech, where it's
like a, you know, almost like ablack box that goes into a truck

(15:55):
and then that's how you'reconnecting into the EDI, am I
off base in that thinking Iprobably am. No, you're you're
really not. I mean, that's apart of, like, Eric's story, is
that, when he started, he wasworking, I believe, for like, a
consultant, helping a lot of,like manufacturers, of course,
share their data, you know,upstream, of course, to to

(16:17):
providers as well, and andstarted realizing that a lot
of the companies just have noidea how to build these things
out, because it is maybe itselfa little bit of dated in
particular, but it's also notgoing anywhere. It's trying to

(16:38):
think of like a perfect example.
Well, I think because I waslistening to there was a show,
an episode with supply chainbrain, and I believe that Eric
was on that episode as well,because it was somebody from
eMERGE, and he was talking abouthow he needed these different
and I think the way that youdescribed it before we started
hitting record is that it'salmost like the pipes and the

(17:00):
foundation of your house. And ifyou have those pipes like
functioning correctly, then youcan tap into working with not
onlybetter shippers, but then you
can also work with them more,yeah, because if you plug into,
if you're able to plug into theEDI system. Then from there, you
can plug into so many differentEDI systems without extra work

(17:24):
on your part. And so becauseorder fill already has those
integrations with all of thesedifferent companies. Then once
you get set up, which I thinkthat it was like less than 45
days or something, that theywere completely like up and
running and being able to notjust, and I think the way that
he said it was, we not only wereable to get more business, but

(17:47):
we were able to put it onsteroids, because we didn't have
to, you know, have, like, a 12month or a six month development
cycle in order just to get ourEDI working with one different
shipper, working with Orderfill. From what I understand is
all you can work with all thesedifferent kinds of shippers
after just one integration,exactly because they've already
pre built all of the EDIguidelines.

(18:13):
You could say, right? The whichreally to, kind of like, break
that down to very small termsthat, for instance, if we're
talking about trading invoicedata, right? You've, you've
already selected that we wantthis, bll number, we want this.
We want this. We want this. Wewant this all sent over into our
system. So they've already builtall those guidelines. Now they
use modern API technology tomake those connections. So

(18:36):
you're, you're basically solvingmaybe an old school technology
problem with newer technology.
And it's, it's working, and, youknow, there's incredible data
behind it as well that we'rehoping to expand on at some
point. And that was anotherexample that they gave in the
eMERGE interview. Is, is that hesaid that a lot of times when
they would, or in certainsituations, they would set up an

(18:59):
EDI connection, but then itwouldn't be done right. And so
if they sent over an invoice, itwould be immediately rejected
because it wasn't set upcorrectly. And doing it with
orderful Like, removed thattension, or removed that, you
know, extra hurdle that the teamwould have to go through,
especially from like, adevelopment standpoint, like, if
your devs are gone for the day,and you're trying to send an

(19:21):
invoice, you know, at 430 atnight, or 430 in the afternoon,
and your devs are already gone,and it's rejected, then that's a
problem that's going to have tobe fixed maybe the next day,
just depending on what the devteam is supposed to be working
on. And so can't get an invoicefixed, and you can't get it
submitted, and that's a delay inpayment and receiving the
payment and, you know, it's atrickle down, you know, supply

(19:42):
chain effect, yeah. And I thinkone of the big problems that we
see with,I think one of the reasons that
people have issues with EDI somuch is because they think they
look at it too much from a likea they look at the technical
debt a little bit.
Right of what they're I think alot of times people are afraid
of switching because of the,you know, you kind of talked

(20:06):
about this prior to recording,right? Like the cost of that
switch, right? Well, we'realready spending some money with
maybe a competitor of ours. Whywould we make that switch? And
I'm happy that you brought upthe eMERGE situation, because
that's the perfect answer towhy. And you know, our good
friend Ron Schreiber talks aboutthis all the time,
switch it and start toaccelerate faster, right? Like,

(20:28):
get over the technical debt, ifanything, that's not going
anywhere. That's going to justcontinue to grow and continue a
problem. Switch it, pull off theband aid and and watch that
acceleration, right? And that'swhat I mean, especially right
now, where I think a lot ofpeople are maybe focusing a
little less on investingin technology for their
customers, a little bit morecustomer service, right, making

(20:50):
sure they get through kind oflike this economic period
without losing people. Well,imagine if you make that
investment now, which stuffstarts to skyrocket
and sellers need more help,etcetera. Is your system ready
to accommodate those sellers?
Right? Your marketplace ready toaccommodate those sellers? A lot
aren't a lot. Only accept APIand can't work with companies

(21:11):
that just have media. So, yeah,I'm excited. I think it's it.
And I think you know this aboutme too, it's a little, I don't
want to say it's a challenge,but I was explaining this to one
of the people on the wonderfulteam today. There's like,
absolutely nothing sexy aboutpipes, you know, like, Oh my
God, what's your pipes? I don'tknow. They're the fucking

(21:32):
ground. Like, I don't, I don'tknow what's I don't care.
But I think what I'm reallyexcited about is trying to to
help this team explain the thestorytelling behind what happens
if those pipes aren't doneproperly, right? Yeah, can you,
even if you want to do a secondfloor addition to your house?

(21:52):
Can you, can your does yourpiping structure allow for that?
Does if you, you know, decide toadopt seven kids, is your
bathroom situation, you know,like, deal with that. I know I'm
making crazy metaphors here, butlike, those are the stories I'm
excited to tell. Those emergestories, those stories of what's
the what if that you're notaccepting because of this little

(22:13):
thing called EDI that you're notfully wrapping your head around?
Is there? Is there still aplace, I guess, for API, or is
it? Are they using both? Like,because I for what I understand
too is like, there's a lot oflike EDI versus API, but it kind
of sounds like you guys aredoing the best of both worlds.
Yeah, you could say that word,but basically leveraging API

(22:35):
technology to helpthe turnover, the onboarding
issues that you often see withEDI. I will say, like the
invoice getting rejection,you'll know right away that
that's going to happen. You'renot going to hear it from right
like using the technology totell you just that. And I will
say, I won't talk about it. Nowmaybe this is actually this

(22:57):
could be maybe next month'sepisode, but I we will have some
fun stuff to talk about in termsof that type of product. So I'll
keep it a little vague for now.
We can get into that later. I, Iwant you to make one promise,
though, is that you're not goingto be the the PR rep that sends
me 10 emails in a day.

(23:18):
You know, I will promise youthat, because I will just text
you time. Sofor anybody who has even just,
like a smidge of, like a podcastreputation in this industry, is
just, we're putting together,like a, you know, a list of,
like, all the podcasters in thisindustry, and it's over 100 now.
But I would still argue thatit's not enough, because of the
amount of press releases that Istill get, and I don't have the

(23:41):
time to cover them. So when Iget, like, the, you know, the
you get the email back, and it'slike, the parentheses is like a
two or three. I'm like, no, yes.
Do it pass?
Yeah, I'll just text you 1000times over and over again, and
then you can send me back toDylan saying that she hates us,

(24:06):
which we haven't talked about alot of we had to keep the show a
little shorter time to get intoMeghan Markle today,
which I'm sorry to the folks whowho Are anticipate, or
anticipate, anticipating,waiting for our cover. There's
got to be at least two peoplethat listen to this podcast,

(24:26):
specifically for Meghan Marklethoughts and opinions. I hope
that person's out there. And ifyou want to comment down below,
yes, we need to know that we weneed the incentive, and even if
it's just one person telling usthat they enjoy us, you know,
just talking about a traitorousprince and his manipulating wife

(24:47):
that has separated him from notonly his entire family, but also
her entire family as well. Youknow, he's just so kind, you
know, like he is just, he's sokind, is it? Mr. Sussex.
That we're talking about here.
Oh yeah, I think it's so funnythat you like, don't call me
Sussex. Oh, my God, wrappedaround

(25:10):
in a kitchen. That's not her.
This woman spent the longestanti Sussex campaign of all that
would be like me coming on thisshow and be like, that's why I
work for Joc now. It's like,what? That's crazy. You just
flipped.
Oh, imagine, like, you live inSussex, and you, this is your

(25:30):
representation. Oh, my God,wait, you didn't know I was a
Sussex I was like, I thoughtthey kicked you out of that
family.
Because meanwhile, the Pro, wegot it, we can't talk about the
bad without talking a little bitof the good. Bit of the good
Prince, William, full beard.
It's very nice. Just William,keep the beard please. You know,
I am, I'm still a little antiagainst William. That's just

(25:54):
because when I was, Well, Ithink I said this long ago, but
when I was like 15, I went toTower of London Museum, and you
can't, I can't marry it becauseI'm baptized Catholic, so then
you have to be Protestant orsomething like that. So, oh, I
didn't know that, huh? But hey,you know, Megan pulled it off.

(26:15):
So all I have to do is, like,figure out how to cocaine or
something, start yachting andthen go to Soho House, and then,
you know, yeah, yeah, exactly,yeah, exactly. I'm so close,
dude, so close.
Alright, well, let's move intoanything else with orderful You
You want to mention? Probably,you know, we'll mention more.
It's only your third day, forGod's sakes. Like, yeah, right.

(26:37):
I waslike, kind of on a meeting. And
I was like, oh, what should wedo? You know,
ooh, pressure's gone. No, Iwould say, you know, just
understanding kind of what I'mdoing. If you guys are
interested, if you're a partnerof order fall already and are
interested in making content andworking on your partnerships
more in terms of the marketingside of things, let me know. I

(26:58):
love to hear it. And I also planon just my personal brand
writing a little bit more, maybepublishing those on LinkedIn or
sub stack, you know, trying toget through first couple weeks
of this job. And then you'lllikely see me start to get into
that, something I've put on holdfor a long time that I'm excited
to put some more time islogistics early, so you guys
will see updates on that forsure this year, and just maybe a

(27:22):
little bit more personalprojects that I wasn't in the
right. You know, when you're ajournalist, there's a level of
unbiased right, this that that Ihave to have, and now that I'm
kind of out of that role, I'mexcited to to be biased,

(27:42):
like if you thought I had hottogether, which will you
unfilter me, and then it'll gethotter. So, no, that's a great
point, because then you can kindof balance both of those things
with the storytelling, yeah, ofwith orderful, and then also
with your own, just sort ofpersonal opinions and personal
things that you are passionateabout. I mean, that's
ultimately, that's the dream, Ithink, and I and in the age of

(28:05):
AI and, you know, companies thatare just using it to make AI
slop. And, you know, just write,you write me 1000 word article
that has the word Delve andinnovative in it, 20,000 times
when I see the word Delve, I'mlike, if I see Delve or 2m
dashes in a row, I'm like, thiswas a I love the M dash. I will

(28:27):
not let these LLM box andkeep it freaking moving. The M
dash is elegant, unlike a comma,which is, you're not supposed to
use a lot of commas, right?
Literally, okay, elegance,either you got a straight line
or a beautiful curve,but it's so much better than

(28:48):
like, one dash. One dash is notenough. Like, boy do I want a
stick? Boy would I hate a curve?
No one or it's a dramatic pause.
That's how I like to think ofit. It's like a dramatic like,
this is an M dash, like,exactly.

(29:11):
And for all those listening tothis podcast, I just did a nice
over the shoulder power pose.
That's an M dash right there.
Yeah, that's an M dash. I'm notgoing to let them take that from
me. But if I see innovative ordelve in your well, then no one
in the history of this play hasever said I would love to delve
into that. There is.

(29:32):
I even learned that word like,Have you ever seen the chart?
It's like a chart of like, howoften the word Delve has been
used on the internet, and withinthe last couple of years, it's
just up into the right like ournational debt.
Very similar,actually. Hey, Doge, if you're
listening, what was that onekid's name in Doge, like, big

(29:55):
swinger.
Hey.
Big swing, or whatever your namewas, if you're listening, I
don't know if you guys stillhave a job. You probably do. You
have our data, so you still havea
job. Fix the Delve situation. Ineed you to delve into the Delve
situation.

(30:16):
Alright. Well, let's move into,I was going to say, let's move
into our next topic. But wereally only have this last topic
because we have to make the showa little bit shorter than what
we typically do is that we talkabout a couple different news
topics and then we get into,like, our favorite freight
business or favorite freightmarketing things like that. We
will do that in future shows,but for the sake of time, we're

(30:38):
going to get right into the meatof it, which is source to porch.
And so that's, I think, both ofour favorite segment to talk
about. Of course, you know, thenew segments are fun as well,
but this is where, with sourceto porch like this is where
we've covered like tug boats.
And, you know, I don't know Mattthe you know where magnets come
from, and, you know Christmastrees and you know things like

(31:00):
that. So it's kind of a chanceto learn something new about
this industry and the wayproducts are shipped, and how we
can, you know, use these storiesin the future, maybe for trivia
purposes or just to kind of WoWour our friends and family who
care about supply chain newsevery couple of years. So with
all that said, you have one, andthen we're going to get into one

(31:21):
that's kind of related to thethe one you have. So you go
first, and then I'll go, yeah,so I actually, you said this is
about the shipments, right?
Well, I actually wanted to touchon a little bit of the shift
myths like that,the shift myths that we're
seeing, the shifting changesthat we're seeing because of
tariffs. I actually got a chanceto even though I'm technically

(31:44):
not at freeways. We'll see thisarticle up on the site, probably
before this art this episodecomes out.
I was at a really great eventrecently, and I got to do a
panel on tariffs, and I got tomeet someone really cool. His
name is Nick, stay chill, justlike, stay chill, which is so

(32:05):
cool, very chill guy as well. Soit worked out, yeah, and he is
works for a consulting groupcalled ISBA consulting. And
listen, I love, first off, whenI meet people who are like, Hey,
can I share data with you that Iput together myself. I'm like,
yeah, yeah, you can't. I wouldlove that. And I love that you

(32:27):
did that, you know, like, andso, shout out to him. It was his
first panel. He killed it. Hedid awesome. And he really
helped. I think that in thattalk explain a little bit more
of what retailers in particularare doing to deal with this
stuff. I mean, guys, we'retalking about a situation where

(32:48):
things are changing every singleday. I mean, even some of this
stuff is data might have changeda little bit since the last time
I talked to him, but we allknow, you know what happens on
Friday. Trump usually changes byMonday. And so it's a really
hard environment for retailers,especially small retailers, that
the small ones that were afraidaren't going to be able to eat
losses or compete during thistime with the big retailers what

(33:11):
they're experiencing.
So we really got into kind ofhow we're seeing these shifts
happen. And again, shout out toNick check out the article.
It'll be in there too, and youcan, I'll link back to him so
you guys can check out hiscompany as well. Um, but he, one
of the things I thought wasinteresting is that we all have
heard of the China plus one typeof diversification, right? A

(33:34):
couple of years ago? Well,actually, probably a little bit
about a decade or so ago, peoplestarted saying, Hey, we gotta be
able to include someone outsideof China within our our supply
chain, like Vietnam or India,yeah? Mexico kind of have that
jumps. You hear about it a lotwith, like, skipping tariffs,
right zone, skipping that kindof solution. But was interesting

(33:58):
as he started to hear from a lotof his customers what they're
calling like China plus three,using multiple different
countries to source in order tobreak up those tariffs into
smaller amounts and smallersituations. But I think what's
interesting about this is theproblem with a lot of these
tactics too, is that you have todo some real deep due diligence

(34:21):
into what you might be leavingbehind, okay, like, just like a
breakup, you know? Yeah, is he alittle bit lazy on Sundays, for
sure, but does he provide foryou the rest of the week and
work his butt off, right? Youknow, things like that. And this
is come up multiple times in alot of the China discussions
I've been in where, you know thething about China, and you're

(34:43):
starting to see this investmentmore in Vietnam and a lot of
like Southeast Asia, Asia, butnot fully yet, but China,
specifically, a lot of theirmanufacturers literally have
schools right next to them wherethey're training people how to
make your product really well.
Oh, wow, throughout their, like,their educational progression,

(35:04):
right? So they have this alittle bit in Japan too. But
clearly, Japan's not a hugemanufacturer. They don't have
the population for it. But sametoo. A lot of times in Japan,
when you go to high school,you're going to, like, a trade
High School, you kind of figureout what you want to do
beforehand, and you it's, it's alittle bit earlier of a move,
before college. And the samething here. So like that was

(35:24):
something you talked about. It'slike understanding when you do
make these moves, you're notjust leaving a workforce and
thinking about it in a tariffperspective, but there are
chances that you know yourproduct could change from it,
that it might not be puttogether as well. So
diversifying more, having aChina plus three, so that not
every part, every piece is beingmanufactured. You not only are

(35:45):
diversifying your risk, right,but you're also giving yourself
options in the future to to movearound without seeing huge
losses, whether it's in yourproduct quality or just product
availability and how quickly itcould be put together and
shipped to you, but also,depending on like this
administration, what mood orsituation Trump feels like, or

(36:09):
leverage he feels like applying,doesn't hurt you as much. So
we're starting to see a lot moreof that.
It's also a dual use sourcing,which is a tactic to let the
Chinese factories in particular,continue supplying non US
markets while building upalternative production, right?
So you're kind of like slowlymoving out, but you're, you're
not fully out of there, butanother huge one that he talked

(36:32):
about, I think we're going tosee more and more of this. And
we've also, I think, alreadyseen like M and A deals, kind of
showcasing this in particular,but partnering with global
manufacturers more So turning tocompanies like maybe Foxconn
that already operate in multiplecountries, so that when you do
need to switch production, youcan quickly switch to a
different Foxconn location,yeah, not have to worry about

(36:55):
that. So I thought that wasreally interesting, too, um, but
of course, I think what's reallycool, and what he got into that
Freightways, I will say, gocheck out sonar, because they're
starting to create data sonartools for this is, is where is
all this moving to? Right? Iwill say, if we really think

(37:16):
this is all coming back toAmerica, we all know that's
silly. That's not going tohappen. There are definitely
some things that could come backto America. There are definitely
some manufacturing that couldcome back. But like, let's be
honest, we're not making Tshirts in America anytime soon.
We're not making socks. We'renot doing any of that kind of
stuff anytime soon, when itmakes sense. And honestly, our
workforce is better off for it.
So like, Where, where is a lotof this going? So Nick pulled a

(37:39):
lot of data. I was really happyto see us, because there's a
couple of countries I hadn'treally looked at recently, so a
few that he's seen becoming morepopular, Morocco, Colombia, the
Dominican Republic, they've beenfor a while now, investing in
becoming a contender in thisglobal race. So this is kind of
like starting to actually cometo fruition for them, right? So

(38:01):
what kind of commodities forthose countries, textiles,
textiles, I think, is a big oneespecially, I would assume,
especially over Morocco, right?
Would likely be a big textileone. They have a really big
dying, like, they dye a lot offabrics in Morocco, yes, yes,

(38:22):
yeah. And I would, I wouldalmost assume
I'm trying to see Dominican. Iknow Peru, too is very big on on
textiles as well, especiallywith, like, a lot of like, their
cotton and their linen. I wentto a shop last weekend in St
Augustine. And I love Peru.
Anybody who's you can see thedifferent all the Peru

(38:44):
memorabilia on the back of mywall, that's, that's my and this
is, this is Peru. And withtheir, their country in general,
when I was at that store, I itsaid, like, a giant tag, like,
made in Peru. And I was like,oh, buying it. Like, I just know
immediately that the fabric isgoing to be really good, like
this blanket right here. It's sothin, but it's, it was made, I

(39:05):
bought it in Peru, and it's sowarm, like you wouldn't believe.
It's so light and airy. Butalso, at the same time, it's
very warm. A lot of theirsweaters are very much like the
same thing. So you'll see, like,a lot of those, like alpaca type
sweaters. And so it's a lot ofthem. There's llamas and, like,
alpacas and, you know, SouthAmerica, of course, but I was
just curious where maybe some ofthose other textiles were, were

(39:27):
maybe coming from with, like theDominican Republic or Morocco,
like, where they may be gettingsome of those fire which you
probably don't know, but I'mjust thinking out loud here.
Well, there's a lot of companieswho've already made switches to
some of those that eat inRockwell, are two big ones that
have moved more into thedominant Dominican Republic. In
particular, medical devices arebeing, of course, produced there

(39:48):
too. So I think a lot of theseareas, they've seen again, some
of these. This is the sad partfor the smaller companies, but a
lot of these larger companieshave been kind of betting.
Of this happening for a whilenow, and have started. So again,
it's a little bit like, forinstance, if you know en is
producing manufacturing out ofDominican Republic, then I'm

(40:10):
probably, if I'm producing someof the same type of products,
thinking that's a populationthat's probably going to produce
my product well too, right? Soit's almost like this network
effect that I think goes alongwith it as well. Also, of
course, Mexico is, like a bigpart of this discussion is we're
not going to talk aboutimmigration. We'll keep that
aside for all i could get. Weonly have so much time here.

(40:34):
Yeah, talk about things. Gracecould get hot on real quick to
the side. But Mexico has aunique role, and we all know
that. Why? Because when truckscome into Laredo, they have to
be unloaded and put on anothertruck. So that's bringing a lot
of investment into Laredo, a lotof jobs into Laredo, a lot of
trucking jobs in particular,we'll talk about who's taking
them, but still, at the sametime, a lot of opportunities as

(40:58):
well. We're Mexico, I think,right the United States, we've
we saw this coming. That's whywe saw Trump's first
administration a lot. I thinkthis partnership was grown
during that too. I'll give him,give him praise there, for sure.
Because, yeah, because, I think,because we were briefly going to
maybe talk about, you know, Ihad sent you last night this new

(41:18):
ad that, or it was new to me, anew a new ad from she in, of
how, and I've been curious ofhow, like she and Timu, of how
they're going to adapt, likethey're not just going to
crumble, like, there's too manycompanies that buy from she in,
especially like clothingboutiques that get their
clothing made from there, evenif it doesn't show up in, you
know, sort of the search enginering, or the search when you're

(41:39):
on The site, there are boutiquesthat I have a theory of that
they do not advertise theirproducts in the Sheehan search
because they want to maintainthat relationship with boutiques
all over the world where theykind of have almost like
exclusivity rights. But I waswondering how they would evolve
with all of this tariff drama,but I had no idea that Europe

(42:01):
still has the the de minimisrule. And it's, it's a slightly
more than what the US is. Soit's 1000 in the US, it was $800
and below of what you couldimport packages into the United
States without having to pay atax on it. With Europe, it's
$1,000 or less. And they stillhave that rule. And so what was
interesting is that she in isstarting to, you know, they're,
they're going to raise theirthey have raised their prices a

(42:23):
little bit for us basedcustomers, but they're opening
up different storage facilitiesin and around the US and just
North America in general. Butthey're also talking about
expanding into those Europeanmarkets so they can take
advantage of that de minimisrule. So I thought that that
was, that was reallyinteresting, because I did this
show. It's BBC show called Whatin the world. And so they

(42:45):
invited me on to talk about allof the there was like a period
of like two weeks during all thetariff drama, where all of these
Chinese, Chinese manufacturerswere going direct to Tiktok and
saying, This is where yourfavorite brands are making all
of your purses and your bags anddifferent luxury clothes, even
like laundry pods and thingslike that. So they were
basically just spilling the teaon all of this different stuff,

(43:08):
but for a lot ofwhich, a lot of those videos
like are now deleted. So Iwonder, like, who kind of made
them delete those videos? I'm alittle curious in that regard.
Butin doing research for that show,
I found that famous like Elonquote where he says, you know,
that the factory is the product.
And after doing research, and Iwas like, I really think that

(43:29):
the supply chain is actually theproduct, not just one factory,
yeah. And so I did this wholeepisode on how, you know, this
is my sort of my new thesis isthat the your supply chain is
your product, how you'remarketing it, how you are
finding different avenues, likeyour china, plus three strategy
that you just mentioned, youknow, that marketing and maybe

(43:49):
not marketing it, but focusingon that supply chain as a
product, as your competitiveadvantage, I think, is the only
way for a lot of these companiesthat they're going to be able to
survive In the near future. Oneof the examples that I gave was,
remember, we talked about it, Ithink, I don't think it was a
year ago. It might have beeneven, you know, past that, maybe

(44:09):
like two years ago. But rememberthat company that you could buy
a sweater from them, and theywould put it like a QR code on
the tag inside of the clothing.
If you scan it, then you can seewhat they were selling, like
wool type fabrics. And so youcould scan it and see the sheep
that the wool was cut from. Andit's called like sheep ink. I

(44:31):
believe you could buy somethingthat's quality made. They lean
into they their supply chain isliterally their farm and so and
they take it a step further tolike document the specific sheep
that that wool was cut from andused to make it your sweater.
And then you could follow thatentire supply chain journey.

(44:53):
They lean into it, they marketit. And I just think that that's
so brilliant. I.
Obviously not a lot of companiescan do this, but if you can lean
into your supply chain as you'repart of your product marketing,
I think it's just a home run.
It's a win win. I had somebodythat commented on, they're like,
No, respectfully, I completelydisagree, because they're

(45:16):
they're like, Coca Cola is acompany that has been around for
years. They don't share theirsecrets, they don't talk about
their supply chain. And I waslike, Well, yeah, because
they're the only, they're theonly company that could get coca
leaves out of Peru. Yeah,totally. Like their supply chain
is way different and way morecomplicated, not complicated,
but established versus a newercompany, maybe that's been

(45:38):
created in the last five to 10years. It's looking for a
competitive advantage. That'swho more I'm I'm referencing,
not a behemoth like Coca Cola.
Well, honestly, to push backagainst Coca Cola during COVID,
Coca Cola in some places reallyhard to find. So I would have
loved somesome tea on what was happening
in their supply chain. And they,I think, have been open about

(45:59):
even becoming a little bit moreglobally involved with that too.
I was going to say, what if,like the sheep situation was
like a builder AI, though, andit was just like Indians dressed
up as sheep. Like,are we talking like a furry
situation?
Look at all these shapes forthis field. And it was just like

(46:22):
he was just off to sheep. Oh,Jesus, that took a turn. Yeah,
it took a turn. Watch the movietusk. That'll that gets even
weirder. Um, interesting. No,that is, it is really
interesting. And I agree withyou. I mean, I've had multiple
retailers of all sizes ondifferent shows, and they always
talk about the fact. I mean, Iwas just talking to Eric about

(46:42):
this yesterday, thatwe buy things based on the
supply chain. We buy thingsbased on how quickly to get to
us, right? I'm going to buy, andeven the channels we choose, I
think, are that way, right?
Like, there's times where I'llgo to Walmart site and I'm like,
well, it's it'll take two daysto deliver, but I can just go

(47:05):
pick it up in the store rightnow. Just go pick it up at the
store. So it's like, that istotally changed, I think, in the
last 10 years. Now, probablymore five or six years than
anything so but it'stransparency too. It's
transparency into what thatshipping time is going to take.
You know, what kind of productsyou're getting, where it's made,
like, we're becoming, because ofall this terror drama, we're

(47:27):
becoming more savvy when we shoplike, I it for me, like, for a
lot of you know, there's acommon thing among like,
different brands, like, oh, youknow, it's revolve is selling,
you know, a $200 dress that'smade out of polyester. It's like
that they're not going to get meno more. Yeah, I am looking at
the fabric. I'm looking at whatthe, you know, not just food

(47:48):
label ingredients, but what'sthe ingredient on, you know,
some of the clothing that I'mbuying, and is it actually
really worth that? And so I havemade a little bit of a
transition in some of myshopping habits, where I'm
getting more 100% cotton, 100%linen. I think it's too hot, too
damn hot for me to, you know,buy a sheep ink sweater or,
yeah, Peru blank. Yeah, I'mlike, It's freaking uh,

(48:12):
shoot in Florida. What BLAKE Areyou using? Well, I sit right
under an air vent. So dependingon the time of the day, it can
just be freezing, and it drivesme crazy. And everybody knows
that women are much colder inlike an office type situation,
than than men are. So as much asI like want to turn the air up

(48:32):
in the house. It's it's a wholeit's a it's a thing, it's a
thing. But so I will say, I wantto wrap this up and let you get
to yours. But I will say thatNick sent me some really
interesting I just want to goover some interesting points on
this is Nick from who I'm sorry,can you say that again? No, I
just want to make sure I creditthem in the show. I love that,
and he would love if I if youcould backlink to him too. I'll

(48:54):
send you a backlink for that,please. Yes. His name is Nick
stacill. That's S, T, A, C, H,E, L, uh, he works with ISBA
consulting. It's I, Z, B, A,yup, and.co
I think is their address. And,yeah, he'll be a featured in the

(49:15):
article I write as well. Butawesome guy. And I just love
when people are, like, nervousabout panels so that they just
go up and kill it, and it'slike, yeah, you're smart. Of
course, you're going to kill ityou. I'm sure you get that a lot
where it's like, people thinkthat panels are the same as
speaking. It's not panels are soI think panels are so infinitely
better than someone just gettingup and just speaking at you for

(49:35):
30 minutes. I Nothing makes mewant to, like, fall asleep
faster than than listening. It'sreally tough to be an engaging
speaker, but it's really easy,if you know your stuff, to be an
incredible panelist. Totally. Sohere's some fun facts for
everyone out there. Kind ofthink you know, what other ports
are people going to? So Vietnam,great one to think of. They got
about 50 different seaports.
They have over two to threedirect sailing.

(50:00):
A week, and three of their portsare ranked in the top 50.
There's a ton of investmentgoing in there, so that's a good
one. Indonesia, over 110different seaports, one to three
sailings per week for us, thisis us vessel frequency, despite
the high court count. Thoughtheir geography does post
challenges, the government isworking on modernizing their

(50:20):
ports a little bit more. But ofcourse, the complexity of the
islands and everything makes ita little bit more slower to
responsiveness than going toVietnam. The Philippines only
has about 20 ish ports. They'remoderate us vessel frequency,
one to three per week. And it'sit is a very good international
hub, so their moderate capacity,so it's a little less ideal for,

(50:43):
like, large scalediversification just due to the
the port depth that they have.
Cambodia, not so great. Just twoports, one, yeah, just one sale
at a week. Very low capacity.
Could work for, like, nicheproducts, but especially
lightweight products, justbecause of what they can
physically lift and move, butnot of not. No one's going, Hey,

(51:06):
I'm going from China Cambodiaanytime soon. India is a huge
one. They have 13 major ports,200 smaller ports, high weekly
sailings from all ports. Very,very mature infrastructure.
Honestly, if I confess, we're intime 15 years, I can't wait to
see what India becomes. I thinkthat is a whole behemoth that we

(51:29):
talk about China, what's goingon in India? Personally, largest
population in the world. Andthen also, because this is just
the nature of how civilizationsevolve. Like United States, we
used to make a lot of stuffhere, but then when you make a
lot of stuff, you're lesswilling to I think it's
something crazy, like 90%of the US population worked in

(51:51):
agriculture in some form orfaction in the early 1900s and
industrialization changed thatto where it took people out of
the fields and out of these hardlabor jobs and moved them into
easier jobs. China is goingthrough that right now. And
typically when that happens,when your middle class rises,
then they get paid more, theywant to do less of that kind of

(52:13):
work. That evolution hasn'thappened in India yet. And so
that's why it's theorized thatIndia is going to be the big
winner in all of this, becausethey have the population, and
then they don't have the the thesame middle class, or the same
rising middle class like Chinahas already kind of experienced.
So India is kind of next on thatlist to sort of lift their

(52:36):
population out of, you know,poor economic conditions, and
lift them into a middle class.
Love it. So that's my good oldport shift to porch for you. Oh,
well, I love that you said thatbecause mine is also a little
bit port related.
It's talking about ballast waterand how it contributes to

(52:59):
invasive species, and how maybethat invasive species is turning
to some food that might end upon your plate or maybe your
porch, for lack of a betterphrase, so I have, we've talked
before on the show like I'mobsessed with, like to catch a
smuggler, like border security,like those types of shows that
just show, what a Good show.

(53:20):
Yeah, yeah, it's such a goodshow. But they have, if you ever
watch like the New Zealand onesor like the Australia ones, they
are so sensitive about shipmentscoming into their country, even
things like, like dried tealeaves, for example, seeds, it's
a no go if it's like, freshproduce. No go. If it's like a

(53:43):
shipment of, I don't know,bananas or something like that,
that that's coming in, ifthere's like a single moth or a
single larva on in any part ofthat shipment, the whole
shipment is rejected because itcannot come into the country,
because they are very sensitive,especially being, not
necessarily Australia, but likea New Zealand for example, they
very sensitive small islands,very sensitive ecosystem. So

(54:04):
they cannot have any of theseinvas, any even the threat of
like an invasive species thatcan come through. So this, that
show, kind of highlights a lotof those different things. But
historically, one place that hasnot been checked by a many
customs programs all across theglobe is the ballast water. And
the ballast water is carried byships to provide stability and

(54:27):
trim especially when they arenot fully loaded with cargo. It
is typically taken on board inone location and discharged in
another location, often atdifferent ports all around the
world. This practice is crucialfor maintaining the safety and
stability of vessels duringtransit, particularly in rough
seas and or when the ship ispartially empty. Now I say all

(54:48):
of that because enter the greencrab. The green crab has is an
invasive species. It is nativeto Europe and North Africa. It
was for first recorded in.
In New Jersey in 1817 and hassince spread across the Atlantic
and Pacific coastlines and alsoglobally as well. Now these

(55:09):
crabs threaten other shellfishbecause they eat so much, but
they also don't have a lot oflike crab meat in themselves.
Then they're also very small, sothey'll eat a lot of juvenile
crabs. They'll eat a lot ofjuvenile clans, sometimes up to
40 clams a day. And so when youare inter or I guess that they

(55:30):
think that this came through,that the species came through in
the ballast water, and then eversince then, it's just exploded
in growth, not just on theAtlantic side, but also on the
Pacific side too. But they'repretty small. They're only like,
four inches. And so they haven'tbeen kind of commercially
available as, like a king crab,or, you know, different crab
species that we typically willeat at a seafood restaurant,

(55:53):
like turtle like, in a way,where they're, like, colored and
everything, they are green.
Like, they call them green for areason. And so it affects, you
know, a lot of differentbusiness, especially when you
talk about New England. BecauseNew England is very heavily
dependent on, you know, likelobster and fishing and clams
and mussels and things likethat. And when this species is
kind of overrunning them, thenit affects the entire ecosystem

(56:15):
within that area. They're alsoeating, like a lot of like the
smaller fishes and things likethat. So it impacts, like the
areas that they grow in, andplankton and algae and all of
these different things. So it'shaving a massive effect this
little green crab. So in 2017that's how long ballast water

(56:36):
has not been regulated from likea Customs and Border Patrol
perspective,the International Maritime
Organization adopted the ballastwater management convention in
2004 but it started beingenforced in September of 2017
so this convention requiresships to manage their ballast

(56:56):
water to prevent the spread ofharmful aquatic organisms and
pathogens. Ships are required tohave a ballast water management
plan and carry a ballast waterrecord book. They must also hold
an international ballast watermanagement certificate, which is
issued after surveys to ensurecompliance with the convention
standards. But they do notinspect them a lot. They

(57:19):
especially do not inspect thesedifferent sort of, you know,
ballast water management,not nearly as regular,
rigorously as, say, like an aircargo shipment or truck
shipments that come in acrossthe borders. They're not looking
at it that in depth. But back tothe green crab is because the
way to combat when invasive,invasive species situation

(57:41):
happens, the way to combat itis, you know, sometimes they
offer like bounty programs. Likein state of Florida, we have a
lionfish that's incrediblyinvasive, and it's doing
terrible damage to like thecoral reefs. So what they'll do
is they they either put a bountyon how many lionfish, if you
just bring a bag of like deadlionfish that you've killed,
they'll either give you a bountyor they'll hold fishing

(58:02):
tournaments for whoever cancatch the most. And so they try
to, like, incentivize the publicthrough, like, public awareness
and things like that. Versus koifish, yeah, that's Oh, because,
you know, Koi is, they growbased on the body of water, so
they all have Lake Michigan, andthey're just like, what's that?
It's like the Asian carp. Ithink that's also in like

(58:23):
Illinois, and it's taking over alot of lakes there. But the
problem with like the carp inlionfish is that they don't
taste good. So what New Englandis doing is they actually found
a way to make green crab tastegood. And so it for these
animals, they're very small, sothey're not really worth it to
eat, you know, like a like youwould a regular crab leg. But

(58:45):
for them it it's really they'retalking about, like, if you
can't beat them, eat them. Andso they've spent years trying to
come up with different recipesto make the green crab edible,
and they finally found a reallygood method, and that's the
basis of a lot of differentdishes, and that's a good
seafood broth. So seafood broth,this soup. So there was, there

(59:08):
was this company called St ours,and company officially debuted
its crab broth powder afterthree years in the making, and
it was named a finalist in thefood service category at the
seafood Expo North America tradeshow this past March, The broth
is said to have a much sweetertaste to it than even like other

(59:31):
crab broths or lobster broths.
And the way that they do it isthat they take the green crab, I
mean, to be a crab and like,cooked alive, like, it's just
crazy to me,moving crabs, and they grow them
in like a giant pot, they boilthem, and then they kind of
separate them out. And then onelady was showing, maybe I should

(59:54):
just show the video. But they,like, they they boil.
Them. And then they poureverything into like a giant
blender. And then, from thelike, they blend the whole crab
up, like Shell and all into onemixture. And then they make the
broth front so strain it, ofcourse, and things broth, yeah.
And then that is, like the stockthat they can turn into all of

(01:00:18):
these different dishes,especially in Asian cultures.
There was one, like Vietnamese,Vietnamese recipe, that I wanted
to show y'all because it's just,I think it's fascinating that
the fact that this is evenhappening to begin with, hold
on.
That has to be the the name ofthis episode. If you can't beat

(01:00:40):
them, eat them,or maybe just like ports or
something I need to come upwith,
like a very, like a very, we'll,we'll order full appreciate our
crab titled episode, oh, weappreciate everything. Blythe,
okay, let's hopefully they lookso gross. I'll just

(01:01:03):
say turtle. Yeah, they are solittle. They're so ugly. Sorry,
crabs. So let's she actuallytakes it a step further, where
she uses the meat from thecrabs, because that was the
biggest complaint when I wasresearching the story, is that
it's not enough to like becauseI was thinking like, oh, well,
rock shrimp, or even like,crawdaddies or, you know, things
like that, like they're solittle and they're not worth the

(01:01:24):
trouble. But I would think thata crab would be worth it, but
she finds a way to make it work.
So let me go ahead and play thisTiktok. Of course she does.
These are invasive green crabsfrom coastal New England.
They're a bit bigger thanVietnamese field crabs, but
still too small to be eatingthem individually worth the
effort. So we're giving them theVietnamese treatment. This
method involves crushing up thecrab so that the raw meat

(01:01:45):
becomes emulsified in the water,allowing it to be separated from
the shells. Then when you cookthat liquid, the crab meat
clumps together into floatingchunks. This is the traditional
method of making gunju Ho. Youcan use the same method to make
gang Vietnamese soups withgreens like Malabar spinach,
zaudai, jute and more. It isnot, not a lot of work, but the

(01:02:07):
end product is worth it. When wewere back in Vietnam last
September, I made wind with mygrandma, as have done many times
before, but this time, werecorded all the steps, which is
the closest I'll come to gettinga recipe. The measurements are
non existent, and everything waseyeballed, but in the end, it
tasted bright. So I'll call thata success. But I make, like,

(01:02:27):
homemade mashed potatoes. I'mlike, look at you work the
kitchen. Girl, that girl justlike, straight up,
yeah. So if you were just, ifyou were just listening and
didn't watch it, she literallytook the entire crab and cleaned
out part of it, and then she putthe rest of the crab into a

(01:02:47):
giant pot, and the meat, shesaid, emulsifies and gets you
can just kind of skim the meatoff of the top, and looks pretty
good too, especially becauseyou're right. I did read it.
Someone said it's like, you getlike a thin bowl of meat from
them, but like, she was gettingfull on patties, crab patties.
Yeah, and so that mean, that isjust talk about, like, turning,

(01:03:10):
like water into wine, for like,an example, like this, like it's
you're taking, like, an invasivespecies. There's nothing you can
do about it in order toeradicate them, because, from
what I understand, they also,like, lay a ton of these green
crabs, lay a ton of eggseverywhere. So that's really,
really challenging to fightthem. And if they're affecting
one part of the ecosystem, then,you know, like the guy said,

(01:03:32):
like, if you can't beat them,eat them. And they found a good
way to cook them in a variety ofways, stock being the most, I
guess, commonly used for it, butturning it into the st ours and
company, they turned it into acrab broth powder. So you can
have a several different ways ofeating an invasive species. But

(01:03:52):
these invasive species, likethere's so many all across the
world, it comes from the balancewater. It's like, different
allergies, different crabs. It'sI had never heard of this before
because I was wondering. I waslike, Well, how did they even
the crabs come over here?
Because if it's just like onecrab that kind of sneaks
through, but it's much more thanthat, and they're literally in

(01:04:16):
the water system of thesedifferent giant cargo ships,
which is nuts. So it was kind ofcool to learn about. That is
cool. So do you think that,like, Do you think she's getting
them priced at, like, absolutelynothing? Because it's like, at
least they're getting eaten andtaken out? Wow, cuz there's
another, there's a, and I'mblanking on the name of it. It's
almost like, kind of like a seaurchin type that's on the

(01:04:39):
California west coast. And soobviously California west coast,
but it's on the west coast andin California. And so for there
are a lot of Asian families thatjust will go to the beaches and
pick up a bunch of the seaurchins because the current
California population, or let'sjust say, you know, the the
lighter.

(01:05:00):
Date of the population does noteat sea urchins, and it's a dish
that the meat that comes fromthe sea urchin is is a delicacy,
and some countries,the people that burn the most of
the sun don't eat sea urchins.

(01:05:22):
Alert, news, Flash, breakingnews. But apparently, like this
sea urchin is like a delicacy incertain Asian countries, and so
they it's almost like, you know,maybe what one person's trash is
another person's treasure,because they see it, and they
immediately, like, they'll be onthe beach and they'll I've seen
this video of this couple thatregularly goes down to the

(01:05:42):
beaches, and they just findthem, and then they end up
cooking them, like, right on thebeach, and they can have, like,
a nice little like night. Andit's the delicacy aspect, I
think, is is wild that morerestaurants wouldn't notice this
opportunity, and especiallywith, like, the green crab too.
Like, if it's starting to turninto something that people like
to eat. Like, jump on this.
Like, start. You know, I guessmaybe that's where the argument

(01:06:03):
of like, supply and demand comesin, where the demand is going to
increase over time, and thesupply is there because these
three crabs, this episode, andall of a sudden there's not
enough green crabs.
Is itinvasive if we want to eat them.
You asking,destroyed the ecosystem? I would

(01:06:25):
assume, yeah, the ecosystem, andit's it's also destroying the
other wildlife in the area. Soyou're in because it's so
little, it can only eat otherlittle things. And so when it's
eating like, it's eating, like41 green crab can eat 40
juvenile clams a day, and thoseare clams that can never, you

(01:06:46):
know, obviously mature and getolder, and, you know, reproduce.
And so that is a chain reactionof, you know, these green crabs
and what they're providing ortaking away. So it's, I think
it's mussels, it's clams, it'sother crab species. Because
these green crabs, like, have nolike qualms about eating other
crab species as well. So theywill eat juvenile crab species

(01:07:08):
from from, you know, differentvariations from their own. So
they're just, they're a littleHustler, hustlers out here, and,
you know, different people arefinding ways to turn it into a
delicacy now, so I think thatthat's kind of cool, like you're
turning trash basically into atreasure and helping the
environment along the way. Andfreaking ballast water never

(01:07:30):
crossed my mind. So I'm curiousto see how maybe, like, some
important maybe now that I'mpaying attention more to it, I'm
wondering if, like, some ofthese shows will start showing,
like, the Dallas watersituation. It is. It is really
hilarious. Sometimes on thoseshows, when you have this, like,
sweet elderly woman who's justtrying to go visit her family in

(01:07:53):
America, and they're like, Whydo you have a bag full of seeds?
She's like, Oh, I forgot theywere in there. And I'm like,
ma'am, no one is just going toAmerica with a ton of seeds,
Australia, New Zealand, they donot play. Like, when I'm
watching these shows, I'm like,if this was in America, like

(01:08:13):
Germany too, right? Is it likeanother episode? There's, like,
there's, I haven't seen Germany,but I've seen Spain, I've seen
Peru, I've seen Brazil. I'veseen the like, Caribbean
islands. Where else is there?
Italy. So for a lot of like,especially with like, to catch a
smuggler, they they have a USbased series, but it's evolved

(01:08:33):
into more like we're going todo, like drug stings. And I like
to see the airport. I want tosee the weirdos at the airport
and the weirdos that try tobring, not necessarily like
weirdos, but I like thecombination of trying to bring
stuff in with the weirdopersonality, and I want that
interaction. They're just like,No, I was trying to bring these,

(01:08:53):
like tea leaves, and they'relike, you can't. And you're
like, why? It sounds stupid.
I remember, coming from France,I stole a bunch of rocks from
Versailles, and I had to hidethose because you're not
supposed to do that. Yeah,make me nervous every time I go
through the customs, right? Notto talk about, you know, Peru
again, but I really wished thatthere was a way that I could

(01:09:16):
bring coca leaves into theUnited States, so maybe Cola,
that's a, well, that's a drugBlythe,
but not in the leaf. I can namea lot of things I'd love to take
from South America and bringUnited States too. Is that where
we ending this episode with alist of things we're trying to
smuggle into America? I wouldso. And for those who haven't

(01:09:36):
been to South America, likethese leaves are everywhere.
They're in hotel lobbies, likeit's right next to they don't
even start in the hotel that westayed in, they didn't even
serve coffee. It was just hotwater, lemon and coca leaves.
And you take the cocoa leaves,you put it in your little coffee
cup, and you put some hot wateron with a little bit of lemon.
It helps with altitude sickness.
Like it's normal, like it'syou're not doing, like, lines of

(01:09:56):
coca leaves. Yeah, it's.
Coca much easier than that.
Maybe illegal process is muchmore like chemically driven. And
yeah, there's a lot of cookinggoing on with with that method.
With coca leaves, it's literallylike the leaf that comes off the
tree and it's dried, that's it.
And they sell them everywhere,like just bags of dried leaves.
But you cannot take it with you,because no country can export

(01:10:20):
those leaves, unless you're CocaCola. So we're bringing it.
We're wrapping it all backtogether. Epcot, I've got a new
ideaat Peru. Let's make the food
festival fun. Ifanyone could do it, it's Walt
freaking Disney, you know? Oh,well, he's in the grave now, and
he would be turning in it rightnow if he saw all the changes

(01:10:42):
that are being made to my parks.
But we don't have that much timefor to to cover all of those
things rip Rivers of America andTom Sawyer Island. Glad we can
make way for cars. Let's justmake sure American industrialism
living. What is it living on theland, right? If that could just
stay forever. You got two happycreatures right here. I think

(01:11:04):
there would be like aninsurrection at Epcot. I would,
I would show up. Hey, new job. Iknow I just took a job from you,
but I need a few days off.
We've got to go riot. No, yeah,go right. The oldest ride in
Epcot. You will seize the Epcotball, and then from there,

(01:11:27):
we will protect, living with theland. Yes, love it,
all right. Well, I think thatthat's that's a really good
place to end the show after wetalk about, you know, about
different drugs and, you know,an insurrection. That's a great
way to end the show and a greatway to welcome you back for your
first episode. Hey, us back.
Free. Friends was gone.

(01:11:49):
Meghan Markle in this episodetoo. So we just, we checked all
the boxes. So hopefully you guysare excited as we are to, you
know, listen to this episode asmuch as we are to record it.
Grace, where can folks followyour work now? Do we have to
update? We have to update thelink tree? Probably, oh, my god,
thanks for finding me. We dohave to update the link tree.

(01:12:09):
You can find [e-mail] email me at Grace dot Sharky,
all spelled [e-mail] find me on LinkedIn. Reach
out to me, like I said, ifyou're a partner, if you're, you
know, interested in, just likeif we get into, when we get into
podcasting, etc, being a part ofthat let me know we're looking
to not just, of course, talkabout EDI, but continue to

(01:12:30):
educate our customers too,through those channels too. So
very excited. Lots of fun stuffto come. Awesome. Glad to have
you back. You too, dude.
Thanks for tuning in to anotherepisode of everything is
logistics, where we talk allthings supply chain for the

(01:12:51):
thinkers in freight, if you likethis episode, there's plenty
more where that came from. Besure to follow or subscribe on
your favorite podcast app so younever miss a conversation. The
show is also available in videoformat over on YouTube, just by
searching everything islogistics. And if you're working
in freight logistics or supplychain marketing, check out. My
company, digital dispatch. Wehelp you build smarter websites

(01:13:13):
and marketing systems thatactually drive results, not just
vanity metrics. Additionally, ifyou're trying to find the right
freight tech tools or partnerswithout getting buried in
buzzwords. Head on over tocargorex.io where we're building
the largest database oflogistics services and
solutions. All the links youneed are in the show notes. I'll
catch you in the Next episodeand go jags.

(01:13:42):
You.