February 18, 2025 • 29 mins
🎧 Episode 155 Part 2: Finding Light in Darkness: A Journey Through Grief and Hope with Kelci Jager (Part 2)
In this continuation, Kelci Jager delves deeper into the challenges of parenting through grief and reveals the unexpected ways loss continues to shape our journey. Her candid discussion about navigating grief alongside her four sons offers invaluable insights for others walking similar paths.
We explore:
- The complexity of parenting while grieving
- Understanding children as "silent grievers"
- How grief triggers can surface unexpectedly
- The evolution from personal healing to professional calling
- The distinction between grief coaching and therapy
- The relationship between the nervous system and grief
- Finding purpose through personal pain
🔑 Key takeaways:
- Parenting through grief requires extraordinary grace and patience
- Children often hide their grief to protect their grieving parent
- Grief evolves but doesn't necessarily get smaller
- Traditional therapy may not always address the unique needs of grief
- Understanding your grief responses can be empowering
- Hope and belief are enough to begin healing
💡 Quotes to remember: "Grief is there because love was there first." - Kelci Jager
"One tiny flame of light can snuff out so much darkness." - Kelci Jager
"You move forward and integrate the grief into your life. You bring your loved one with you." - Kelci Jager
🌟 Featured Insights:
- The importance of allowing space for grief to exist
- How neural pathways can trigger grief responses
- Why grief coaching differs from traditional therapy
- The power of awareness in managing grief
- The transformation from feeling lost to guiding others
📚 Resources:
- Website: https://risewithgrief.com/
- Book: "A Million Miracles: And The One That Never Came" on Amazon
- Instagram: @risewithgrief
- Facebook: Kelci Jager
- Free Video: "The Truth About Grief" available on website
A rising tide raises all ships, and I invite you along on this journey to Evoke Greatness!
Check out my website: www.evokegreatness.com
Follow me on:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sonnie-linebarger-899b9a52/
https://www.instagram.com/evoke.greatness/
https://www.tiktok.com/@evoke.greatness
http://www.youtube.com/@evokegreatness
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Evoke Greatness.
We are officially entering yearthree of this podcast and I am
filled with so much gratitudefor each and every one of you
who've joined me on thisincredible journey of growth and
self-discovery.
I'm Sunny, your host and fellowtraveler on this path of
personal evolution.
This podcast is a sanctuary forthe curious, the ambitious and
(00:28):
the introspective.
It's for those of you who, likeme, are captivated by the
champion mindset and driven byan insatiable hunger for growth
and knowledge.
Whether you're just beginningyour journey or you're well
along your path, you're going tofind stories here that resonate
with your experiences andaspirations.
Over the last two years, we'veshared countless stories of
triumph and challenge, ofresilience and transformation.
(00:51):
We've laughed, we've reflectedand we've grown together.
And as we've evolved, so toohas this podcast.
Remember, no matter whatchapter you're on in your own
story, you belong here.
This community we've builttogether is a place of support,
inspiration and shared growth.
Where intention goes, energyflows, and the energy you bring
(01:13):
to this space elevates us all.
So, whether you're listeningwhile commuting, working out or
enjoying your morning coffee,perhaps from one of those
motivational mugs I'm so fond of, know that you're a part of
something special.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for your curiosity,your openness and your
commitment to personal growth.
As we embark on year three, Iinvite you to lean in, to listen
(01:36):
deeply and to let these storiesresonate with your soul.
I believe that a rising tideraises all ships and I invite
you along in this journey toevoke greatness.
(01:57):
Welcome back to part two ofFinding Light in the Darkness
with my guest, kelsey Jager.
In the second part of thisepisode, kelsey dives deep into
the challenges of parentingthrough grief and reveals the
unexpected ways loss continuesto shape our journey.
We explore the complexity ofparenting while grieving, how
(02:18):
grief triggers can surfaceunexpectedly, the relationship
between the nervous system andgrief, and finding purpose
through personal pain.
If you haven't yet, make sureto go back to last week's
episode and listen to part one.
All right, let's hop into it.
Throughout that process, youhad to navigate both your own
(02:38):
grief and that of your fourchildren concurrently.
What unexpected challengesarose in trying to balance those
dual roles?
And then, what can you sharefor other grieving parents who
are navigating?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
those same waters?
That's a really great questionand it's a very multifaceted
question so I'll try to answerit as best I can in podcast
terms.
Parenting is hard.
Parenting grieving children ishard.
Parenting grieving childrenwhile you're grieving yourself
(03:13):
is next level.
So just it's so, so, sochallenging and definitely the
hardest thing I've ever had todo, because while you're
grieving, everything is soconfusing.
Like you, just you questioneverything and you want to have
(03:37):
your children's life asunaffected as possible and so
like.
For me personally, I tried tokeep as many things the same as
I possibly could and in someways, that worked out great,
because kids really thrive inroutine and stability, and in
(03:59):
other ways, it just completelybackfired in my face because the
reality is, no matter how hardI try, everything's different.
Their dad is no longer here.
That changes everything, andthey are so, so, so resilient
(04:26):
and they bring me so much joyand have healed me through this
process so much.
With that being said, theystill have really really hard
days and, for example just oneexample children are often
(04:47):
called the silent grieversbecause, number one, they grieve
differently than adults.
Number two, a lot of kids andnot all children, but a lot of
kids are afraid to show theirgrief because then it's going to
set mom off, or it's going toset dad off, or it's going to
(05:09):
you know.
And so a lot of times kidssuffer in silence.
And so, for an example of this,I being a solo mom is hard.
Trying to keep everything goingthe way that it was when I had
a partner, when I had my husbandhere, is impossible.
(05:33):
I had to let things go, I hadto change things.
But, with that being said, Istill try to keep things going
as much as I can.
So I'm tired, much more tiredthan I ever was before, and with
(05:55):
that tiredness comesirritability.
And so I, in this particularscenario, I had told one of my
children to do you know, xyz setof chores, and he didn't get it
done.
And I came home I had left andsaid when I get home I expect
those things to be done.
(06:15):
I came home and it wasn't done.
I got frustrated, I was angry,I had thoughts of why do I have
to do everything alone?
I'm so sick of doing everythingalone.
And so I yelled out to him.
I didn't know where he was, butI yelled out to him in the
(06:35):
house in probably a harsher tonethan I normally would have and
he didn't respond.
And as he's not responding, I'mgetting more upset.
So I'm looking through thehouse and I found him and he was
laying in my bed and he wassobbing.
And the reason why he didn'tget his stuff done is because he
(07:00):
was sad about his dad not beinghere.
And there is no.
I don't think I've ever feltguilt that level of guilt that
I've felt since my husband hasdied of feeling like I'm failing
my kids, feeling like I'm notenough for them, feeling like
(07:24):
I'm not enough for them, and inthat moment I of course felt
horrible and of course I, youknow, went and sat with him.
But to parents that arestruggling, whether you're, you
know, a widow or you're, youknow, even if you're just a
single mom or whatever yourcircumstances are, give yourself
grace.
(07:44):
As long as you are doing yourbest, you are enough.
And have some compassion foryourself and your children.
And also know that grief showsup, sometimes in the silence and
in ways that you don't expect,in the places that you weren't
(08:05):
expecting it to be, and justallow some space and room for it
to be there, because the griefdoes not need to be fixed.
It's not a problem to be solved.
Grief is there because love wasthere first, and when you look
(08:29):
at it from that way, it becomesalmost a sacred experience,
instead of this thing to befeared.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
I think, in that people feel that pressure to
move on, to get over their grief.
You want to hurry the processand, to your point, it's such a
unique journey for everyone andyou're trying to navigate two
worlds, your own world thatfeels like it's such a unique
journey for everyone.
And, as you, you know, andyou're trying to navigate two
worlds, your own world feelslike it's just collapsed.
And then you have four boys andeach of their world feels like
(08:59):
it's collapsed and so,concurrently, you have five
worlds that you're trying tomanage while grieving.
When you think about thatpressure to move on that people
probably feel, sometimesoverwhelmed by how can people
reframe their relationship withloss while honoring that
person's memory, whilerecognizing that it doesn't have
(09:22):
to be a race.
There's no mark where it's likeokay, now I'm over it.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
It's a mindset shift.
Society tells us that there'sstages to grief.
Taylor Swift has a whole albumon the stages of grief, and so
when we believe that we thinkthere's an end point, we think
that we should be further alongthat, oh, if I you know I'm
doing so good.
(09:47):
And then all of a sudden I getsmacked in the face by something
that triggers my grief and Ifeel like I'm you know, I'm on
the floor a puddle of tears andI feel like, oh no, I've
regressed.
All that work, all the progressI've made is gone.
That's not true.
(10:09):
Grief is not linear, it's messy.
It goes up and down andforwards and backwards and
upside down, and you don't evenlike, you can't force it into
this neat little box where youget over it and you move on.
There's no moving on.
You move forward with you, moveforward and integrate the grief
(10:35):
into your life.
You bring your loved one withyou.
How that looks is up to you.
You get to decide that.
You get to decide how you honortheir legacy.
You get to decide how theycontinue to influence your life.
You get to decide if theirdeath, if their legacy is that
(10:58):
their death broke you and ruinedthe rest of your life.
If that's what you want, youget to decide that.
But you also get to decide ifyou want to rise with your grief
, if you want to bring yourloved one with you and continue
(11:22):
that connection and continuethat their influence over you
for good.
That's also within your control.
No one can do it for you.
You have to do it.
But with that is also yougetting to make the choice you
share on your social media andyour presence.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
you share all sides of grief and I think that there
is such beauty in all thosesides that you courageously show
.
So you show the really raw,hard days where you're going
through it.
And then you also recentlyshared how I saw a post about
(12:06):
your son heading off for amission and how that
unexpectedly kind of stirred upgrief for you in a little bit of
a different way.
What was that experience likefor you?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
The mission experience.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah, and just like navigating that of what did that
?
Speaker 2 (12:24):
do with your grief.
Grief, as I've said multipletimes now, it becomes part of
you.
Multiple times now it becomespart of you and in the beginning
it's so heavy and sosuffocating that you feel like
you're drowning and you're never, ever, ever going to be able to
(12:45):
catch your breath.
And as you begin to integratethe grief into your life, as you
begin to learn how to process,as you begin to kind of navigate
this life after loss, griefevolves and it changes.
It doesn't get smaller, it'sstill the same size, but it
(13:08):
evolves and it softens, but itevolves and it softens.
You still have moments whereit's suffocating and you feel
like it's dragging you under,but in between those moments you
have moments of joy andhappiness and reprieve where you
can catch your breath, even ifit's just going through the
(13:31):
motions of your day.
When those waves get fartherand farther apart and then they
do come, it's kind of like whoa,where did that, where did that
come from?
You do have expected triggers,like anniversaries holidays.
You know there are expectedtriggers, but sometimes
(13:54):
anniversaries holidays there areexpected triggers, but
sometimes it comes out of where.
You're like whoa.
I was not expecting that.
One of those was my son'smission trip.
So he had decided before myhusband passed away that he
wanted to serve a two-yearmission, two-year volunteer
mission.
His commitment for this missionwas that he would be gone for
two years.
We would not see him for twoyears.
(14:16):
We would be able to communicatewith him once a week on the
phone, but he would be away fromus, and this was completely his
decision.
I supported it, of course, butI did not try to sway him away
from it or try to talk him intoit.
(14:37):
This is what he wanted to do.
After my husband passed away, Iwasn't sure if he was still
going to want to go.
He did.
Part of that was probably tohonor his dad, because his dad
had served a two-year missionwhen he was 19 years old and so
he left six months after myhusband passed away.
(15:01):
Saying goodbye to him in theairport I knew was going to be
hard.
I didn't expect it to feel likeI was saying goodbye to my
husband all over again.
I remember sitting in the carat the airport and I could not
catch my breath.
I was a wreck, sobbing, sobbing, and I was like what is going
(15:27):
on?
Like, yes, I'm sad that I'm notgoing to see him, but I'm also
really excited that he has thisexperience and I was like, why
does it feel like he died?
And it took me a couple ofmonths to figure out exactly
what was going on Because, likeI said, I could only talk to him
(15:48):
once a week on the phone.
And so, as I go about my day, Iwould think of something like oh
, I want to call Ian and tellhim this, or I want to text Ian.
Or I would be at the store andsee, oh, I'm going to buy this
for Ian, he likes it.
And I'd be like, oh, he's nothere.
And it would be the sameexperience as when my husband
died and I would think, oh, Iwant to call him, or I want to
(16:11):
buy.
And I was like, what is goingon?
And I started having these panicattacks because I couldn't just
pick up the phone and call him.
And I realized that my nervoussystem was reacting in the same
way it did when I said goodbyeto my husband, because that was
(16:32):
the neuropathway that had beenformed.
And so when I had thatawareness, I got this clarity.
It was like this light bulbwent on and suddenly it made so
much sense and I was like, oh mygosh.
So I did.
This was a little bit againstthe rules, but I think it's okay
(16:53):
.
So I did text him.
When I figured this out, Itexted him and I said it wasn't.
We can talk on Mondays.
It wasn't on a Monday, I thinkit was like on a Wednesday, and
I said, son, my nervous systemis freaking out and it thinks
you died.
So I need to be able to justsend you a text message when I
start to panic, and you don'thave to message me back if it's
(17:16):
not Monday, If you're busy.
I just need a little like aheart back, some type of
acknowledgement, so my braincalms down and knows you're not
dead, Even though, logically, Iknew he was going to come back.
I knew he wasn't dead, but mynervous system acted like he
(17:39):
wasn't here anymore.
So it's that type of awarenessthat we have when we do the
grief work, when we have someonelike a therapist or a coach
that's experienced it, that iseducated in grief, when we can
(18:06):
gain the awareness of what ishappening and you understand
that you're not going crazy andthat of course what's happening
is happening.
It's so validating and it's soempowering, because then you can
then decide how you're going tomove forward from there, and
(18:29):
that's how you gain control ofyour grief, instead of just
having your grief control you.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
And you took all of that and you, I'm sure, by way
there's your lived experience,and then there's probably doing
research and looking at theother side, kind of that
research, science-based side ofgrief.
And you've taken all of thatand you have created your own
grief coaching program.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Share a little bit about that and you know who are
the right people, who should bereally seeking out grief
coaching, struggling like theydon't have their footing, could
(19:20):
benefit from a coach, couldbenefit from somebody that says,
here, let me take your hand andI'm going to show you the path
through this Grief.
When my husband died, everyonewas like you need to get into
therapy right away.
I was like, oh yes, like I'm amess, I got to get into therapy.
(19:44):
So I went into therapy rightaway and it helped a little bit
in the beginning.
But grief is your brain is notbroken, you don't.
You know, there are someinstances of grief that can lead
to severe depression and severeanxiety where you do need more
(20:10):
intensive intervention for thatdepression very closely.
But it's not depression.
You don't have a broken brain,you don't have a mental illness.
So, while therapy helped me inthe fact that I was able to talk
(20:31):
to somebody in a safe place, Ihit a plateau in therapy very
quickly and my therapist wastelling me that I was doing so
great and I'm thinking I am Like, I feel terrible, like this is
going to be my life for the next40, 50, 60 years, like this
(20:54):
sucks, and I wasn't okay withthat.
And I wasn't okay with thatbecause, like I said, we had
such a beautiful, full lifebefore all of this and I wanted
to get back to that.
I knew it was possible.
And so I was consuming griefbook after grief book, like if
(21:17):
you had told me that I needed tostand on my head and say my
ABCs backwards, it would make mefeel better.
I would do it Like I was justlike a sponge.
I was taking trauma courses,grief courses, all the things,
um.
And then I signed up for a lifecoaching school to be life coach
(21:38):
certified not to be a lifecoach, but like, okay, I'm going
to, I'm going to figure thisout for myself.
Like, how do I coach myselfthrough this?
I couldn't find exactly what Ineeded.
I needed someone to take myhand and say, here we go, I'm
going to show you the waythrough this.
(21:59):
And I couldn't find thatanywhere.
And so I signed up for lifecoaching school and I was not
very far into the program and itwas like this light bulb went
off and I was like, oh my gosh,when I took all the things I had
learned from educating myselfin grief things from my
(22:21):
experience professionally as anRN dealing with grief on that
end all my experience ofexperiencing grief myself and I
combined it with the tools I waslearning.
It was like magic happened.
I was like, oh my gosh, Icannot keep this to myself.
(22:43):
I knew how lost I felt and Ididn't want anybody else to feel
that way, and so it came veryclear to me that to me that I
(23:09):
needed to become a grief coachand I needed to help others
navigate their way through grief.
And that's what I've done, andmy program is rooted in research
and scientific data.
But it is not therapy, I'm veryclear about that.
I am not a therapist and mostof the time you don't need a
therapist in grief because yourbrain is not broken, but you do
(23:31):
need a coach.
You do need someone that hasbeen there, that knows how to
navigate and help you getthrough, and that makes the
world of difference.
And my work is.
I laugh because when people askme what I do, I kind of like
kind of pause a little bit andthen kind of like sheepishly say
(23:52):
, well, I'm a grief coach.
And every time they kind oflook at me like what, what is
that?
Never sought out to do thiswork, but I absolutely love it
because to see thetransformation from my clients
from when they first come to meto when they finish my program
(24:14):
is just so incredibly rewarding.
I just can't even begin todescribe how much joy it gives
me to be able to help others andto have them trust me in their
darkest days and to help themsee the light.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
And then be able to grab the hands of others who are
navigating that and don't seethe way out yet or haven't
progressed to the place that youhave been, and so to be able to
share those real livedexperiences, to guide them back
to the light has got to be asense of fulfillment for you,
just in making that experiencesomething again that you held on
to hope and you held on to thislight, and now you can help
others do the same.
(25:01):
Absolutely, absolutely Well, aswe wrap up, I usually have a
question that I ask at the endof every podcast interview.
It probably lands a little morepersonally for you.
If it were your last downer andyou could only impart one piece
of advice based on yourexperience, the way that you've
(25:22):
seen the world, what would thatbe?
Speaker 2 (25:23):
I would say kind of the same thing that I said in
the beginning that no matter howdark your day is, no matter how
hopeless you feel like yourlife is, no matter what the
circumstance, there is light inthe darkness and one tiny flame
(25:45):
of light can snuff out so muchdarkness and there is so much
power in that light.
You just have to hold on to itand you just have to believe.
You do not have to know how,you just have to believe, and
that belief is that hope andthat is enough and you will be
(26:10):
able to get through whatever iscausing your world to be black
and white and I promise you canbring the color back into your
world.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
I would love for you to share.
Where can people find you andfollow you, pick up a copy of
your book or, more importantly,if they're going through that
process of grief themselves,where can they find out more
about your coaching?
Speaker 2 (26:39):
So my website is risewithgriefcom and you can
learn about ways to work with meon there my coaching programs.
I also have a free video on mywebsite that gives clarity and
(27:01):
some direction in this world ofgrief that is very there's a lot
of misconceptions and a lot ofmisinformation, and so this
video is the truth about grief,and so I have a free video that
you can access on my website,risewithgriefcom.
(27:23):
You can learn about my programsthere.
You can follow me on socialmedia.
On Instagram, I amrisewithgrief.
On Facebook, I am Kelsey Jager,K-E-L-C-I-J-A-G-E-R and my book
, my book.
I'm so proud of my book, mybook.
(27:46):
I would love, love, love foranyone and everyone to read it.
It's not a book about grief,it's not.
It's really a book for anyonethat wants to be inspired.
And my book A Million Miraclesand the One that Never Came, can
(28:07):
be found on Amazon.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Well, I will put all of these links in the show notes
so you can just go and clickdirectly to get to them.
Kelsey, thank you so much forcontinuing to share your story.
Thank you for letting meexplore that with you and
sharing the wisdom and insightsthat have come through your
experience with my audience.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
It was my pleasure, sunny, thank you so much for
having me.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Thank you so much for listening and for being here on
this journey with me.
I hope you'll stick around Ifyou liked this episode.
It would mean the world for meif you would rate and review the
podcast or share it withsomeone you know may need to
hear this message.
I love to hear from you all andwant you to know that you can
leave me a voicemail directly.
If you go to my website,evokegreatnesscom, and go to the
contact me tab, you'll just hitthe big old orange button and
(28:55):
record your message.
I love the feedback andcomments that I've been getting,
so please keep them coming.
I'll leave you with the wisewords of author Robin Sharma
Greatness comes by doing a fewsmall and smart things each and
every day.
It comes from taking littlesteps consistently.
It comes from making a fewsmall chips against everything
(29:18):
in your professional andpersonal life that is ordinary,
so that a day eventually arriveswhen all that's left is the
extraordinary.
Welcome to Evoke Greatness.
We are officially entering yearthree of this podcast and I am
filled with so much gratitudefor each and every one of you
who've joined me on thisincredible journey of growth and
self-discovery.
I'm Sunny, your host and fellowtraveler on this path of
personal evolution.
This podcast is a sanctuary forthe curious, the ambitious and
(00:28):
the introspective.
It's for those of you who, likeme, are captivated by the
champion mindset and driven byan insatiable hunger for growth
and knowledge.
Whether you're just beginningyour journey or you're well
along your path, you're going tofind stories here that resonate
with your experiences andaspirations.
Over the last two years, we'veshared countless stories of
triumph and challenge, ofresilience and transformation.
(00:51):
We've laughed, we've reflectedand we've grown together.
And as we've evolved, so toohas this podcast.
Remember, no matter whatchapter you're on in your own
story, you belong here.
This community we've builttogether is a place of support,
inspiration and shared growth.
Where intention goes, energyflows, and the energy you bring
(01:13):
to this space elevates us all.
So, whether you're listeningwhile commuting, working out or
enjoying your morning coffee,perhaps from one of those
motivational mugs I'm so fond of, know that you're a part of
something special.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for your curiosity,your openness and your
commitment to personal growth.
As we embark on year three, Iinvite you to lean in, to listen
(01:36):
deeply and to let these storiesresonate with your soul.
I believe that a rising tideraises all ships and I invite
you along in this journey toevoke greatness.
(01:57):
Welcome back to part two ofFinding Light in the Darkness
with my guest, kelsey Jager.
In the second part of thisepisode, kelsey dives deep into
the challenges of parentingthrough grief and reveals the
unexpected ways loss continuesto shape our journey.
We explore the complexity ofparenting while grieving, how
(02:18):
grief triggers can surfaceunexpectedly, the relationship
between the nervous system andgrief, and finding purpose
through personal pain.
If you haven't yet, make sureto go back to last week's
episode and listen to part one.
All right, let's hop into it.
Throughout that process, youhad to navigate both your own
(02:38):
grief and that of your fourchildren concurrently.
What unexpected challengesarose in trying to balance those
dual roles?
And then, what can you sharefor other grieving parents who
are navigating?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
those same waters?
That's a really great questionand it's a very multifaceted
question so I'll try to answerit as best I can in podcast
terms.
Parenting is hard.
Parenting grieving children ishard.
Parenting grieving childrenwhile you're grieving yourself
(03:13):
is next level.
So just it's so, so, sochallenging and definitely the
hardest thing I've ever had todo, because while you're
grieving, everything is soconfusing.
Like you, just you questioneverything and you want to have
(03:37):
your children's life asunaffected as possible and so
like.
For me personally, I tried tokeep as many things the same as
I possibly could and in someways, that worked out great,
because kids really thrive inroutine and stability, and in
(03:59):
other ways, it just completelybackfired in my face because the
reality is, no matter how hardI try, everything's different.
Their dad is no longer here.
That changes everything, andthey are so, so, so resilient
(04:26):
and they bring me so much joyand have healed me through this
process so much.
With that being said, theystill have really really hard
days and, for example just oneexample children are often
(04:47):
called the silent grieversbecause, number one, they grieve
differently than adults.
Number two, a lot of kids andnot all children, but a lot of
kids are afraid to show theirgrief because then it's going to
set mom off, or it's going toset dad off, or it's going to
(05:09):
you know.
And so a lot of times kidssuffer in silence.
And so, for an example of this,I being a solo mom is hard.
Trying to keep everything goingthe way that it was when I had
a partner, when I had my husbandhere, is impossible.
(05:33):
I had to let things go, I hadto change things.
But, with that being said, Istill try to keep things going
as much as I can.
So I'm tired, much more tiredthan I ever was before, and with
(05:55):
that tiredness comesirritability.
And so I, in this particularscenario, I had told one of my
children to do you know, xyz setof chores, and he didn't get it
done.
And I came home I had left andsaid when I get home I expect
those things to be done.
(06:15):
I came home and it wasn't done.
I got frustrated, I was angry,I had thoughts of why do I have
to do everything alone?
I'm so sick of doing everythingalone.
And so I yelled out to him.
I didn't know where he was, butI yelled out to him in the
(06:35):
house in probably a harsher tonethan I normally would have and
he didn't respond.
And as he's not responding, I'mgetting more upset.
So I'm looking through thehouse and I found him and he was
laying in my bed and he wassobbing.
And the reason why he didn'tget his stuff done is because he
(07:00):
was sad about his dad not beinghere.
And there is no.
I don't think I've ever feltguilt that level of guilt that
I've felt since my husband hasdied of feeling like I'm failing
my kids, feeling like I'm notenough for them, feeling like
(07:24):
I'm not enough for them, and inthat moment I of course felt
horrible and of course I, youknow, went and sat with him.
But to parents that arestruggling, whether you're, you
know, a widow or you're, youknow, even if you're just a
single mom or whatever yourcircumstances are, give yourself
grace.
(07:44):
As long as you are doing yourbest, you are enough.
And have some compassion foryourself and your children.
And also know that grief showsup, sometimes in the silence and
in ways that you don't expect,in the places that you weren't
(08:05):
expecting it to be, and justallow some space and room for it
to be there, because the griefdoes not need to be fixed.
It's not a problem to be solved.
Grief is there because love wasthere first, and when you look
(08:29):
at it from that way, it becomesalmost a sacred experience,
instead of this thing to befeared.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
I think, in that people feel that pressure to
move on, to get over their grief.
You want to hurry the processand, to your point, it's such a
unique journey for everyone andyou're trying to navigate two
worlds, your own world thatfeels like it's such a unique
journey for everyone.
And, as you, you know, andyou're trying to navigate two
worlds, your own world feelslike it's just collapsed.
And then you have four boys andeach of their world feels like
(08:59):
it's collapsed and so,concurrently, you have five
worlds that you're trying tomanage while grieving.
When you think about thatpressure to move on that people
probably feel, sometimesoverwhelmed by how can people
reframe their relationship withloss while honoring that
person's memory, whilerecognizing that it doesn't have
(09:22):
to be a race.
There's no mark where it's likeokay, now I'm over it.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
It's a mindset shift.
Society tells us that there'sstages to grief.
Taylor Swift has a whole albumon the stages of grief, and so
when we believe that we thinkthere's an end point, we think
that we should be further alongthat, oh, if I you know I'm
doing so good.
(09:47):
And then all of a sudden I getsmacked in the face by something
that triggers my grief and Ifeel like I'm you know, I'm on
the floor a puddle of tears andI feel like, oh no, I've
regressed.
All that work, all the progressI've made is gone.
That's not true.
(10:09):
Grief is not linear, it's messy.
It goes up and down andforwards and backwards and
upside down, and you don't evenlike, you can't force it into
this neat little box where youget over it and you move on.
There's no moving on.
You move forward with you, moveforward and integrate the grief
(10:35):
into your life.
You bring your loved one withyou.
How that looks is up to you.
You get to decide that.
You get to decide how you honortheir legacy.
You get to decide how theycontinue to influence your life.
You get to decide if theirdeath, if their legacy is that
(10:58):
their death broke you and ruinedthe rest of your life.
If that's what you want, youget to decide that.
But you also get to decide ifyou want to rise with your grief
, if you want to bring yourloved one with you and continue
(11:22):
that connection and continuethat their influence over you
for good.
That's also within your control.
No one can do it for you.
You have to do it.
But with that is also yougetting to make the choice you
share on your social media andyour presence.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
you share all sides of grief and I think that there
is such beauty in all thosesides that you courageously show
.
So you show the really raw,hard days where you're going
through it.
And then you also recentlyshared how I saw a post about
(12:06):
your son heading off for amission and how that
unexpectedly kind of stirred upgrief for you in a little bit of
a different way.
What was that experience likefor you?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
The mission experience.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah, and just like navigating that of what did that
?
Speaker 2 (12:24):
do with your grief.
Grief, as I've said multipletimes now, it becomes part of
you.
Multiple times now it becomespart of you and in the beginning
it's so heavy and sosuffocating that you feel like
you're drowning and you're never, ever, ever going to be able to
(12:45):
catch your breath.
And as you begin to integratethe grief into your life, as you
begin to learn how to process,as you begin to kind of navigate
this life after loss, griefevolves and it changes.
It doesn't get smaller, it'sstill the same size, but it
(13:08):
evolves and it softens, but itevolves and it softens.
You still have moments whereit's suffocating and you feel
like it's dragging you under,but in between those moments you
have moments of joy andhappiness and reprieve where you
can catch your breath, even ifit's just going through the
(13:31):
motions of your day.
When those waves get fartherand farther apart and then they
do come, it's kind of like whoa,where did that, where did that
come from?
You do have expected triggers,like anniversaries holidays.
You know there are expectedtriggers, but sometimes
(13:54):
anniversaries holidays there areexpected triggers, but
sometimes it comes out of where.
You're like whoa.
I was not expecting that.
One of those was my son'smission trip.
So he had decided before myhusband passed away that he
wanted to serve a two-yearmission, two-year volunteer
mission.
His commitment for this missionwas that he would be gone for
two years.
We would not see him for twoyears.
(14:16):
We would be able to communicatewith him once a week on the
phone, but he would be away fromus, and this was completely his
decision.
I supported it, of course, butI did not try to sway him away
from it or try to talk him intoit.
(14:37):
This is what he wanted to do.
After my husband passed away, Iwasn't sure if he was still
going to want to go.
He did.
Part of that was probably tohonor his dad, because his dad
had served a two-year missionwhen he was 19 years old and so
he left six months after myhusband passed away.
(15:01):
Saying goodbye to him in theairport I knew was going to be
hard.
I didn't expect it to feel likeI was saying goodbye to my
husband all over again.
I remember sitting in the carat the airport and I could not
catch my breath.
I was a wreck, sobbing, sobbing, and I was like what is going
(15:27):
on?
Like, yes, I'm sad that I'm notgoing to see him, but I'm also
really excited that he has thisexperience and I was like, why
does it feel like he died?
And it took me a couple ofmonths to figure out exactly
what was going on Because, likeI said, I could only talk to him
(15:48):
once a week on the phone.
And so, as I go about my day, Iwould think of something like oh
, I want to call Ian and tellhim this, or I want to text Ian.
Or I would be at the store andsee, oh, I'm going to buy this
for Ian, he likes it.
And I'd be like, oh, he's nothere.
And it would be the sameexperience as when my husband
died and I would think, oh, Iwant to call him, or I want to
(16:11):
buy.
And I was like, what is goingon?
And I started having these panicattacks because I couldn't just
pick up the phone and call him.
And I realized that my nervoussystem was reacting in the same
way it did when I said goodbyeto my husband, because that was
(16:32):
the neuropathway that had beenformed.
And so when I had thatawareness, I got this clarity.
It was like this light bulbwent on and suddenly it made so
much sense and I was like, oh mygosh.
So I did.
This was a little bit againstthe rules, but I think it's okay
(16:53):
.
So I did text him.
When I figured this out, Itexted him and I said it wasn't.
We can talk on Mondays.
It wasn't on a Monday, I thinkit was like on a Wednesday, and
I said, son, my nervous systemis freaking out and it thinks
you died.
So I need to be able to justsend you a text message when I
start to panic, and you don'thave to message me back if it's
(17:16):
not Monday, If you're busy.
I just need a little like aheart back, some type of
acknowledgement, so my braincalms down and knows you're not
dead, Even though, logically, Iknew he was going to come back.
I knew he wasn't dead, but mynervous system acted like he
(17:39):
wasn't here anymore.
So it's that type of awarenessthat we have when we do the
grief work, when we have someonelike a therapist or a coach
that's experienced it, that iseducated in grief, when we can
(18:06):
gain the awareness of what ishappening and you understand
that you're not going crazy andthat of course what's happening
is happening.
It's so validating and it's soempowering, because then you can
then decide how you're going tomove forward from there, and
(18:29):
that's how you gain control ofyour grief, instead of just
having your grief control you.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
And you took all of that and you, I'm sure, by way
there's your lived experience,and then there's probably doing
research and looking at theother side, kind of that
research, science-based side ofgrief.
And you've taken all of thatand you have created your own
grief coaching program.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Share a little bit about that and you know who are
the right people, who should bereally seeking out grief
coaching, struggling like theydon't have their footing, could
(19:20):
benefit from a coach, couldbenefit from somebody that says,
here, let me take your hand andI'm going to show you the path
through this Grief.
When my husband died, everyonewas like you need to get into
therapy right away.
I was like, oh yes, like I'm amess, I got to get into therapy.
(19:44):
So I went into therapy rightaway and it helped a little bit
in the beginning.
But grief is your brain is notbroken, you don't.
You know, there are someinstances of grief that can lead
to severe depression and severeanxiety where you do need more
(20:10):
intensive intervention for thatdepression very closely.
But it's not depression.
You don't have a broken brain,you don't have a mental illness.
So, while therapy helped me inthe fact that I was able to talk
(20:31):
to somebody in a safe place, Ihit a plateau in therapy very
quickly and my therapist wastelling me that I was doing so
great and I'm thinking I am Like, I feel terrible, like this is
going to be my life for the next40, 50, 60 years, like this
(20:54):
sucks, and I wasn't okay withthat.
And I wasn't okay with thatbecause, like I said, we had
such a beautiful, full lifebefore all of this and I wanted
to get back to that.
I knew it was possible.
And so I was consuming griefbook after grief book, like if
(21:17):
you had told me that I needed tostand on my head and say my
ABCs backwards, it would make mefeel better.
I would do it Like I was justlike a sponge.
I was taking trauma courses,grief courses, all the things,
um.
And then I signed up for a lifecoaching school to be life coach
(21:38):
certified not to be a lifecoach, but like, okay, I'm going
to, I'm going to figure thisout for myself.
Like, how do I coach myselfthrough this?
I couldn't find exactly what Ineeded.
I needed someone to take myhand and say, here we go, I'm
going to show you the waythrough this.
(21:59):
And I couldn't find thatanywhere.
And so I signed up for lifecoaching school and I was not
very far into the program and itwas like this light bulb went
off and I was like, oh my gosh,when I took all the things I had
learned from educating myselfin grief things from my
(22:21):
experience professionally as anRN dealing with grief on that
end all my experience ofexperiencing grief myself and I
combined it with the tools I waslearning.
It was like magic happened.
I was like, oh my gosh, Icannot keep this to myself.
(22:43):
I knew how lost I felt and Ididn't want anybody else to feel
that way, and so it came veryclear to me that to me that I
(23:09):
needed to become a grief coachand I needed to help others
navigate their way through grief.
And that's what I've done, andmy program is rooted in research
and scientific data.
But it is not therapy, I'm veryclear about that.
I am not a therapist and mostof the time you don't need a
therapist in grief because yourbrain is not broken, but you do
(23:31):
need a coach.
You do need someone that hasbeen there, that knows how to
navigate and help you getthrough, and that makes the
world of difference.
And my work is.
I laugh because when people askme what I do, I kind of like
kind of pause a little bit andthen kind of like sheepishly say
(23:52):
, well, I'm a grief coach.
And every time they kind oflook at me like what, what is
that?
Never sought out to do thiswork, but I absolutely love it
because to see thetransformation from my clients
from when they first come to meto when they finish my program
(24:14):
is just so incredibly rewarding.
I just can't even begin todescribe how much joy it gives
me to be able to help others andto have them trust me in their
darkest days and to help themsee the light.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
And then be able to grab the hands of others who are
navigating that and don't seethe way out yet or haven't
progressed to the place that youhave been, and so to be able to
share those real livedexperiences, to guide them back
to the light has got to be asense of fulfillment for you,
just in making that experiencesomething again that you held on
to hope and you held on to thislight, and now you can help
others do the same.
(25:01):
Absolutely, absolutely Well, aswe wrap up, I usually have a
question that I ask at the endof every podcast interview.
It probably lands a little morepersonally for you.
If it were your last downer andyou could only impart one piece
of advice based on yourexperience, the way that you've
(25:22):
seen the world, what would thatbe?
Speaker 2 (25:23):
I would say kind of the same thing that I said in
the beginning that no matter howdark your day is, no matter how
hopeless you feel like yourlife is, no matter what the
circumstance, there is light inthe darkness and one tiny flame
(25:45):
of light can snuff out so muchdarkness and there is so much
power in that light.
You just have to hold on to itand you just have to believe.
You do not have to know how,you just have to believe, and
that belief is that hope andthat is enough and you will be
(26:10):
able to get through whatever iscausing your world to be black
and white and I promise you canbring the color back into your
world.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
I would love for you to share.
Where can people find you andfollow you, pick up a copy of
your book or, more importantly,if they're going through that
process of grief themselves,where can they find out more
about your coaching?
Speaker 2 (26:39):
So my website is risewithgriefcom and you can
learn about ways to work with meon there my coaching programs.
I also have a free video on mywebsite that gives clarity and
(27:01):
some direction in this world ofgrief that is very there's a lot
of misconceptions and a lot ofmisinformation, and so this
video is the truth about grief,and so I have a free video that
you can access on my website,risewithgriefcom.
(27:23):
You can learn about my programsthere.
You can follow me on socialmedia.
On Instagram, I amrisewithgrief.
On Facebook, I am Kelsey Jager,K-E-L-C-I-J-A-G-E-R and my book
, my book.
I'm so proud of my book, mybook.
(27:46):
I would love, love, love foranyone and everyone to read it.
It's not a book about grief,it's not.
It's really a book for anyonethat wants to be inspired.
And my book A Million Miraclesand the One that Never Came, can
(28:07):
be found on Amazon.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Well, I will put all of these links in the show notes
so you can just go and clickdirectly to get to them.
Kelsey, thank you so much forcontinuing to share your story.
Thank you for letting meexplore that with you and
sharing the wisdom and insightsthat have come through your
experience with my audience.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
It was my pleasure, sunny, thank you so much for
having me.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Thank you so much for listening and for being here on
this journey with me.
I hope you'll stick around Ifyou liked this episode.
It would mean the world for meif you would rate and review the
podcast or share it withsomeone you know may need to
hear this message.
I love to hear from you all andwant you to know that you can
leave me a voicemail directly.
If you go to my website,evokegreatnesscom, and go to the
contact me tab, you'll just hitthe big old orange button and
(28:55):
record your message.
I love the feedback andcomments that I've been getting,
so please keep them coming.
I'll leave you with the wisewords of author Robin Sharma
Greatness comes by doing a fewsmall and smart things each and
every day.
It comes from taking littlesteps consistently.
It comes from making a fewsmall chips against everything
(29:18):
in your professional andpersonal life that is ordinary,
so that a day eventually arriveswhen all that's left is the
extraordinary.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com