November 26, 2024 • 28 mins
🎧 Episode 145: From Self-Doubt to Success | Part 1 with Dr. Lisa Orbe-Austin
In this powerful first part of our conversation with Dr. Lisa Orbe-Austin, renowned psychologist and co-founder of Dynamic Transitions Psychological Consulting, we explore the deep impact of impostor syndrome on women in leadership and how to overcome it. As an expert who has both studied and personally experienced impostor syndrome, Dr. Orbe-Austin shares vulnerable insights about her own journey and transformative strategies for others.
We dive deep into:
- The unexpected path to becoming an impostor syndrome expert
- How limiting beliefs can hold back even the most capable leaders
- The unique challenges women face in senior leadership positions
- The delicate balance of power and authenticity in leadership
- How impostor syndrome affects decision-making and risk-taking
- The impact of leadership style on team development
🔑 Key takeaways:
- Success often looks different than we initially imagine - allow yourself to dream bigger
- Leadership comes in many authentic forms - there isn't one "right" way to lead
- Impostor syndrome can significantly impact how we develop our teams
- Micromanaging often stems from our own insecurities
- Taking risks becomes easier when we stop viewing our power as performative
- Sharing our struggles can free others to acknowledge and overcome their own
💡 Quotes to remember:
"I just thought like I was just treading water, trying to survive it all and that somebody was going to eventually find out I didn't deserve any of it and take it all away from me." - Dr. Lisa Orbe-Austin
"Expertise, competence, power comes in all different forms. And the way that you're going to feel that most is if you're authentically expressing that power and that leadership and not trying to be somebody else to do it." - Dr. Lisa Orbe-Austin
📚 Resources:
- "Own Your Greatness: Overcome Impostor Syndrome, Beat Self-Doubt, and Succeed in Life": https://a.co/d/aIHGjBM
- "Your Unstoppable Greatness: Break Free from Impostor Syndrome, Cultivate Your Agency, and Achieve Your Ultimate Career Goals": https://a.co/d/fbyUOqR
- Dynamic Transitions Psychological Consulting: www.dynamictransitionsllp.com
Don't miss Part 2 next week where we'll explore:
- Navigating senior leadership roles while maintaining work-life integration
- Setting and modeling healthy boundaries
- Creating psychological safety in workplace cultures
- Preparing the next generation of leaders
A rising tide raises all ships, and I invite you along on this journey to Evoke Greatness!
Check out my website: www.evokegreatness.com
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https://www.linkedin.com/in/sonnie-linebarger-899b9a52/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Evoke Greatness.
We are officially entering yearthree of this podcast and I am
filled with so much gratitudefor each and every one of you
who've joined me on thisincredible journey of growth and
self-discovery.
I'm Sunny, your host and fellowtraveler on this path of
personal evolution.
This podcast is a sanctuary forthe curious, the ambitious and
(00:28):
the introspective.
It's for those of you who, likeme, are captivated by the
champion mindset and driven byan insatiable hunger for growth
and knowledge.
Whether you're just beginningyour journey or you're well
along your path, you're going tofind stories here that resonate
with your experiences andaspirations.
Over the last two years, we'veshared countless stories of
triumph and challenge, ofresilience and transformation.
(00:51):
We've laughed, we've reflectedand we've grown together.
And as we've evolved, so toohas this podcast.
Remember, no matter whatchapter you're on in your own
story, you belong here.
This community we've builttogether is a place of support,
inspiration and shared growth.
Where intention goes, energyflows, and the energy you bring
(01:13):
to this space elevates us all.
So, whether you're listeningwhile commuting, working out or
enjoying your morning coffee,perhaps from one of those
motivational mugs I'm so fond of, know that you're a part of
something special.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for your curiosity,your openness and your
commitment to personal growth.
As we embark on year three, Iinvite you to lean in, to listen
(01:36):
deeply and to let these storiesresonate with your soul.
I believe that a rising tideraises all ships and I invite
you along in this journey toevoke greatness.
(01:57):
Welcome back to another episodeof Evoke Greatness.
Today I'm excited to have withus Dr Lisa Orbe-Austin, a
renowned psychologist, careercoach and organizational
consultant who's helpingprofessionals overcome imposter
syndrome and reach their fullpotential.
As the co-founder of DynamicTransitions Psychological
Consulting, she's guidedcountless individuals through
(02:17):
career transitions andleadership challenges.
Her groundbreaking book Ownyour Greatness, Overcome
Imposter Syndrome, beatSelf-Doubt and Succeed in Life
has become a guide forprofessionals struggling with
self-doubt.
A sought-after speaker andthought leader, her insights
have been featured in the NewYork Times, forbes, nbc News and
Psychology Today.
Her unique approach combinesclinical psychology with
(02:39):
practical career developmentstrategies, helping people
transform their relationshipwith success.
She brings a wealth ofknowledge about workplace
dynamics, diversity andinclusion.
Their relationship with success.
She brings a wealth ofknowledge about workplace
dynamics, diversity andinclusion, and personal
development.
Today, she's going to sharesome powerful strategies for
building authentic confidenceand creating lasting career
success.
Lisa, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me, sunny, absolutely, I always
(03:00):
like to kick off theseconversations with a little bit
of backstory.
I'm curious for you, had youalways known kind of this was
like this is the field that I'mgoing to go into, or is that
something you kind of formed ordiscovered a little bit more
along the way.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Early on I thought I was going to be a pediatrician.
So from early on it was notthis and I think you know,
throughout my course ofeducation I started to realize I
really didn't love the sciencesthat much and I sort of loved
people and their resilience andability to deal with troubles
but also sometimes needingsupport in that process.
So I eventually exploredcounseling and got a master's
(03:37):
degree, loved it and thenpursued my PhD.
I always thought I would be inpractice.
I just got derailed a coupletimes in that process.
So I do think I always thoughtI would be in practice.
I definitely did not think Iwould be in practice like this.
An imposter syndrome expert wasdefinitely not on my list about
what I was going to end updoing.
(03:58):
It was a bit of happenstancebut very much related to my own
experience.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
The reason I reached out to you is because you're an
expert in this area, and myprimary audience makeup is women
who are in senior and executiveleadership roles and I don't
know about anybody out therelistening.
Maybe you have all have neverexperienced this before right a
day in your career, lord knows.
I have battled with this likegnashing of teeth many a times
in my career, and so that's whyI was so excited to bring you on
(04:26):
, and many of our listeners arewomen who have earned their way
through relentless drive andexcellence.
And yet the higher they climb,the louder their inner critic
becomes, and so, as someonewho's both studied and lived in
this phenomenon, what surprisedyou most about your own
relationship with success as youhave advanced in your career?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I mean I think you know it's a great question.
I don't know if I I guess I'msurprised I'm here.
I also struggle with impostersyndrome and that's what led me
to a career.
Doing this is.
I just started speaking aboutit and then my publisher found
me and wanted to write a bookaround imposter syndrome.
That's how it all started.
But I think my older self wouldhave never thought I would have
been here.
(05:06):
My imposter syndrome self justalways believed like these
limiting ideas of what waspossible for me.
And I don't think I dreamedthis big when I was thinking
about sort of what was going tohappen to my career, because I
just really felt like I was justtreading water, trying to
survive it all and if somebodywas going to eventually find out
I didn't deserve any of it andit was going to take it all away
from me.
So I really lived in that placejust trying to hold on to what
(05:29):
I had and killing myself in theprocess of trying to hold on to
it.
So I don't think I allowedmyself to dream this the heck at
all.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yeah, it's interesting as I think back on
my career.
Obviously it's hindsight right.
There's so much wisdom andexperience acquired throughout
the time of growing and thosemoments that were painful in the
moment that we thought for surewe'll never survive, whatever
experience we were going through.
But I remember being at my veryfirst, in my very first
leadership role, sitting aroundthe table, feeling exactly what
you said Someone is going tostand up and be like what is she
(06:03):
doing here?
And I thought for sure thatfirst meeting I sat there just
waiting the entire time.
I don't even remember what themeeting was about, but I sat
there in such fear that someonewas going to be like what are
you doing here?
And so that resonates so deeplywith me, and I'm sure so many
people who are listening havefelt that same way, like, ooh,
who am I to fill in the blankright?
(06:26):
And I think back to I wasprobably 35 years old before I
really started kind of embracinga growth mindset versus this
fixed like kind of fear-basedimposter syndrome type space
that I occupied, and so it'sonly been 10 years and I think,
gosh, I want to shout it fromthe rooftops now so that people
(06:46):
don't feel alone.
So people don't feel like youknow that one person in a room
who doesn't feel like theydeserve to be there.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's what drove me into this
career path was that when I wasable to kind of do the work, to
kind of release myself, and Ibegan to see the possibilities
of my career and my life, I waslike nobody should have to
struggle with this, like it issuch a limiting experience
Although sometimes we get a lotfrom it, like we do achieve and
(07:13):
do do things, but the experienceof it is terrible.
It just feels like you know,you don't want to celebrate it
because it often feelsprecarious, like it feels really
scary on the other side, eventhough everyone's like, oh, you
must love this, you're justreally just clenching on for
dear life.
And so I do think that's whatdrove the interest in this area
was like I want nobody tosomeday, nobody to have to ever
(07:37):
say that they can experiencethis, that would be a really
lovely like ultimate goal Right.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Completely agree.
You've worked with a number offemale executives who probably
appear pretty unshakable totheir teams and yet, privately
again, like that gnashing ofteeth, that grappling with that
profound self-doubt, was there amoment from your practice that
fundamentally changed how youunderstood the unique pressure
that women face in leadership?
Speaker 2 (08:04):
pressure that women face in leadership.
Well, that's a good question.
I don't think there was any onemoment.
I think you know I knew it frommy own experiences in the
workforce I mean I talk about inmy TEDx talk.
I mean I was on a seniorleadership team when it all kind
of came down and I all Istarted to realize what was
happening and and I'll share thestory, which is that you know I
was really had super toxic boss.
(08:24):
He was very terrible, but hisentire leadership team was women
and he was specificallyunderpaying me in comparison to
my counterpart and wouldn't giveme a raise, also was terribly
awful in public, would humiliateme.
It was just terrible.
And everyone in my family wantedme to quit and move on.
They were saying you're socapable of doing so many things
(08:44):
and you could go wherever youwant.
And I just didn't believe thatat all.
I just thought, like you don'tknow what you're talking about,
I'm just lucky to have this job.
And then I was in a seniorleadership meeting where there
was music playing and someoneasked what's that music that's
playing in the background?
And he said it's music tosoothe the savage breast.
And in that one moment I startedto realize that he knew what he
(09:06):
was doing, whether consciouslyor unconsciously, that because
we were women, he thought of usas savages and he thought of us
as having to be tamed.
And the way he tamed us wasembarrassing us publicly and
underpaying us.
And it just all came to me andyou know, it just like flooded
me and I went back to my officeand I called my husband and I
told him I'm quitting and he waslike quit, he's been telling me
(09:30):
to quit the job for months andmonths, and months.
And I cleared out my officethat weekend and I came up to
him Monday morning into hisoffice and turned in my keys and
told him I quit on the spot.
And he cried, he yelled at me,he threatened my career.
He said I've never worked inmeditation again.
And it was a really difficultmoment in which I felt like I
had potentially blown up mywhole life.
(09:51):
But I also did not want to gobackwards and it was the
beginning of me recovering frommy imposter syndrome.
And so in the work that I dowith women and senior leaders, I
see a lot of echoes in thatexperience of either being
mistreated or having to do somuch more because they're
expected to perform, no matterwhat's happening in their life,
(10:14):
whether they're having childrenor, like you know and I see it
all the time and and I thinkthat piece, you know, has
profoundly changed me over thetime to want to really just
advocate especially for womenand people of color around, like
making sure that they geteverything that they deserve,
whether that is time and space,or whether it's money or whether
(10:35):
it's title, super drive towardlike that's the that drives me,
that drives me in my career,like I just love helping people
get to the place that they wantto be at, but it it is.
So it is so hard it is, it isexponentially harder for women
and people of color to go upthese ladders.
And and you think it'd beeasier over time, but it has not
(10:59):
been easier over time and Isometimes and I've been talking
a lot about this with withleaders that work with about how
there's been almost like areversion in the last three to
five years and how more maleleadership feels in a lot of
spaces it's like it's gonebackwards and no one's noticing.
And so I do think now more thanever, it is also so important
(11:20):
to be supporting women leadersto get what they need, to get
the visibility they need, to getthe pay that they need.
All of that becomes even moreimportant to me.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, and you hit on such an important note there.
I want to talk about thedelicate balance Many women
executives navigate and that'sbeing seen as both strong and
authentic or compassionate, youknow, and it's like gosh.
That's a fine line.
You've developed some specificstrategies for women who feel
(11:49):
like they're constantlymodulating their leadership
presence.
What have you discovered aboutembracing power while staying
true to oneself?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
for a woman, I mean, I think it's for me, when I'm
working with my leaders, so muchof what I'm trying to get at is
like their authentic, theirauthentic presence in their
leadership.
How do they, how do they wantto show up?
Some of them, you know, do wantto show up more, more powerful
and more, and some of them don't.
And so how do we allow them,you know, to to feel comfort in
(12:15):
that leadership style when it'sdifferent from other people and
they're being judged for it?
Like, no doubt, in my mind,they're being judged?
I mean, I hear so many timesfrom my women judged for it Like
, no doubt, in my mind, they'rebeing judged.
I mean I hear so many timesfrom my women executives like
they've been told, you know, inthe past, you know or currently,
that they don't have executivepresence, which is just code
word for like you don't looklike an executive to me it's not
because of competence or skill,it's bias.
(12:37):
And so, like really helpingthem to get the advocates they
need to support them in theirauthenticity.
Like they need other peopleadvocating for them on the
inside, often either equal tothem in power or senior to them
in power, who understand whatthey're getting at and why they
do what they do and as a staunchsupporter, so in those quiet
rooms when other people aresaying things, they're shutting
(12:59):
that down.
And so I do think, you know,doing it not alone is incredibly
important, with mentors,supporters, sponsors.
But I also think too, like youknow, also not you know, I think
one of the things that happenswith imposter syndrome is you
tend to overvalue others andundervalue yourself, and this is
specifically important whenyou're overvaluing what you see
as leadership, which is manytimes, for many of us have been
(13:20):
male, and so to overvalue it isto think that's what a leader
looks like, and I think it's soimportant for women leaders to
really, to really redefine that.
What does a leader look likefor you and really being able to
own that?
Yes, there are certain thingsall leaders have to do, but in
terms of how you express that,you're finding the environments
(13:41):
and finding the confidence inyourself to just go out and do
that.
It's super hard, it's easiersaid than done, but it is sort
of.
This is the sort of likemindset I'm thinking about when
I'm working with my femaleleaders.
I'm not trying to make theminto something, I'm trying to
help them be their full selvesin the environments, in the
complicated environments they'rein.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, and you mentioned what's right for them,
right, and sometimes that's apersonal and unique way that
they want to approach leadership, and that could be personal and
a little bit different to eachindividual.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Yep, absolutely, and I think that's why that
particular component of impostersyndrome is so problematic,
because I think oftentimes oneof the reasons why we feel like
we're a fraud and we don'tbelong is because we have some
archetype of what success lookslike in our role, and that
archetype is usually perfect inour minds.
In some ways, it usually isflawless, makes no mistakes,
(14:36):
often looks like something thatyou don't look like, so I think
it leads you to feel like you'rea fraud.
But this is why it's soimportant to recognize that
expertise, competence, powercomes in all different forms,
and the way that you're going tofeel that most is if you're
authentically expressing thatpower and that leadership and
not trying to be somebody elseto do it.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, your research touches on how high-achieving
women often experience successdifferently than their male
counterparts.
What patterns have you noticedabout how senior women leaders
internalize their achievementsand how does this impact their
decision-making at an executivelevel?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Well, so what we've seen is that in the research
that imposter syndrome whenleaders have imposter syndrome
and they're female, we typicallysee them being counterphobic,
so they will actually face thething that they fear, but as a
result, they'll be triggered toexperience their imposter
syndrome more often.
So I think this is part of thatmythology that only women have
(15:37):
imposter syndrome, which is nottrue.
Both men and women experienceimposter syndrome and just until
recently, like since July, wasthe first like conclusive
research piece that came out andsaid women do experience it
more.
But for a long time we thoughtof it as equivalent because
there was no consistent researchon that.
But I do think it's really, andmen typically, what we see for
(16:00):
men is that they tend to aimtoward mastery and so they want
to get things mastered so thatthey always feel on top of the
game.
But then, as a result of that,they don't take a lot of risks
and they don't really putthemselves in positions where
they can, you know, fail or butand that and that sort of gets
them underperforming.
So there, but that's not trueof every single woman, but
that's what the research findsin general.
(16:22):
So I do think it's like we dotend to achieve and achieve a
lot, but it's under duressoftentimes.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Yeah, well, many listeners are at a fascinating
inflection point where they'veproven themselves technically
excellent, right, but now facethe challenge of shifting from
tactical expertise to strategicleadership.
How does imposter syndromeevolve at this transition, and
what do you think unexpectedopportunities does that present?
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah.
So I'm never a fan of believingthat imposter syndrome presents
any unique advantages.
I don't think it does, but I dothink one of the things that we
tend to see when you go from Isee an excellent individual
contributor to now a manager orleader, is that some of the
behaviors, if you haven't dealtwith them directly, start coming
(17:09):
out in your management style.
So, for example, micromanagingdirect reports, because you're
very afraid that your directreports will, you know, look,
look badly, and then you willlook badly as their manager.
So you get overly involved inwhat they're doing, which makes
the job so much harder becausein essence, you're supposed to
be doing your job, not your joband their job, and so it also
(17:30):
kind of runs the risk of alsoburning you out and also
creating like some tension inyour org that becomes really
hard to resolve.
So in addition, we see thatpeople with imposter, like
leaders with imposter syndrome,tend to undervalue their team.
So not that they undervalue them, sometimes directly to them,
but when they're going out totalk to other leaders about what
(17:51):
their team has done, they'renot blowing them up or making
them shine or kind of stickingthem out, they're just sort of
talking about them sort of doingtheir jobs, you know, and you
know that's about it.
They really don't know how toadvertise or kind of you know
and you know that's about it.
So they really don't know howto advertise or kind of you know
, kind of you know, supporttheir teams publicly so that
they get more resources, moreopportunities.
They tend to struggle with thatand I think also for
(18:12):
individually, what we see happenfor them is that they tend to
underrate themselves andperformance, self performance
reviews, which can affect compand promotion and all of these
things.
So I do think it can reallysignificantly affect your
leadership and I can't tell youhow many times I have a client
who says I think my boss hasimposter syndrome and I don't
know what to do about it.
It's a very complicated thing.
(18:33):
It was just why I believeleaders need to deal with that,
because it spreads all over theplace.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
That reminds or that makes me curious about.
Do you think there's a mirroreffect or impact for those you
lead?
When you're battling impostersyndrome, we oftentimes feel
like it's something that's onlyinternal right.
Nobody else can see it or feelit and people can sometimes the
way that we're showing up.
What do you think that mirroreffect or impact could be on the
(19:01):
team that you lead?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I mean, I see it because I see some of my clients
dealing with bosses that fromall accounts and sort of what
they're reporting sounds likethey are, and so the behaviors
speak louder than words.
And so you know in these kindsof situations what you do create
.
For, interestingly enough, ifanybody on your team has
imposter syndrome, you'rereinforcing it, so you're just
making their imposter syndromefeel like it's normative and
(19:25):
that everyone has it and thatyou just have to live like this.
And so that's particularlyproblematic.
But also too, for people whoeither are building their
confidence or you start to makethem feel insecure about what
they're contributing if yourhands are all over it and then
you can't grow a team properly.
Eventually those direct reportsneed to feel competent enough
(19:45):
to be able to take over yourrole or to be able to kind of
get to the next level, whateverit may be.
So in essence, you're modelingsuch problematic behavior.
Even if the team is successful,it is still problematic to be
overworking or to bemicromanaging or to be
underrepresenting yourself.
So all of those things you knowthe team feels professionally
(20:06):
and personally, and so I dothink it's so important to
recognize it and be honest withsort of what's happening is so
critically, it changes the game.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, you've noted that women often approach risk
differently at the executivelevel.
Can you talk through how themost successful female leaders
that you've worked with havelearned to reframe their
relationship with uncertaintyand bold decision making?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
feel like their power is within their control and
isn't performative or isn't sortof, you know, not real, really
helps them, I think, to takebigger risks and bigger
challenges on and feel less likeunder threat.
When they make a mistake orthere's a little issue here,
they just feel like okay, that'sjust how it goes and they keep
moving forward and they don'tfeel any shame and they don't
sort of like you know, kind ofpublicly, kind of like shame
themselves, but they just reallyadapt really well to the
(21:03):
difficulties that are going onin their professional life.
And I don't think that if theyfeel this pressure, when they
overcome it and deal with it,that they're going to be fired
at any moment.
So they're less cautious andthey're more prone to take risks
.
So I do think that does helpyou also advance in your career
when you're willing to take ongreater things that you're not
fully competent in yet.
But we'll get there.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
And just to kind of shine a light on the other end
of the spectrum.
There is a lot of fear withthat.
When you're battling with thatimposter syndrome, fear in
taking sort of high risksbecause you're worried about how
it's going to reflect on you.
What's it going to look like?
You know?
How is it going to impact youin the future?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
If I make a mistake, what happens?
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Right right.
So it's like what are theunintended consequences if I
take this risk?
And so, as you think about it,it's like gosh and that can
really hold you back becauseyou're going to be kind of stuck
in the space of being tooscared to take a risk when that
risk could have ample rewards.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yeah, and I think that's what I mean.
You beautifully captured it.
That is the real consequence ofimposter syndrome is that
stuckness, and I think my storyis emblematic of that.
I was stuck in a job I couldn'tleave because of these thoughts
I had about who I was and whatI was capable of, and actually
leaving that opportunity, takingthat risk and it was a big risk
(22:22):
for me, you know ended upreally opening up my world and
giving me so many moreopportunities that I couldn't
even think of at the moment.
I really didn't even think ofwhat I was capable of.
So I do think it really can, youknow, just give you and I've
seen it with my clients likesometimes I'm even shocked at
what they're capable of doingafterwards, okay, I think, big
(22:42):
for my clients, but sometimesthey've blown me like away, like
I remember a client I had whoyou know was an architect and
was really being treated sopoorly in her work environment
and, you know, was to the pointwhere she had actually designed
the building that they weremoving into and she wasn't even
invited to the ribbon cutting.
And, you know, to the pointwhere she had actually designed
the building that they weremoving into and she wasn't even
invited to the ribbon cuttingand you know, and then treated
(23:05):
like she was a custodian at onepoint asking her to clean up
some coffee stain on the rug.
You know, we kind of encouragedher.
We kind of worked with hertogether in a group program we
had done and to encourage her tolook at what her other options
were.
And she was so afraid toconsider other options because
she was just like what ifsomebody else here is a small
industry?
What if I go out there and Idon't get it?
And then I have to stay hereand live with that?
(23:26):
And she took some risks veryquickly.
She landed something that paidway more than she was currently
making.
And then she just told us acouple of months ago that she
just opened her own firm.
And I don't think she everthought she'd ever get that.
I don't know if we ever thoughtthat.
We thought that her gettingthis higher paying job that was
so great and had a nine to fivebalance and all this stuff was
(23:47):
going to be a really big thing.
But she went on to bigger andbigger things because I don't
think she feared risk as muchand I think she knew she's
capable of recovering from eventhe worst risk she could imagine
she could recover from.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Yeah, and I think that just goes back to like that
modeling piece is like you said, I think big for my clients,
but sometimes they blow it outof the water.
It makes me think about likethe modeling of kind of getting
to that place where you giveyourself permission to step into
your greatness.
And my way of doing that you'rekind of modeling or vicariously
(24:22):
allowing other people to seelike what is possible for
themselves, and I think that'sthe really cool part about it
and that's also the really coolpart of authenticity.
And sharing your journey is sothat other people can see who
sometimes feel alone.
They sometimes feel likethey're the only ones feeling
this way in the world.
But yet a lot of us have beenthere, A lot of us have gone
through the valleys to get tothe peaks, but oftentimes it's
(24:45):
those lessons in the valleysthat are the most powerful and
impactful for us.
But when we can authenticallyshare our story and show up in
our own greatness, man, thatgives permission for people
around us to step into theirs.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yeah, and I think talking I mean the first time I
really talked about it was in mytedx talk and when I talked
about my own vulnerability I hadnot that that that had occurred
to me like years ago, like theincident had occurred years
prior to the, and I reallydidn't talk about it a lot
because I felt a lot of shameabout it, frankly, and I felt
like you know that I should.
I should have, like I shouldhave looked for another job and
got another job before I left it.
(25:21):
I should have not been soimpulsive.
It was a lot of differentthings that felt shameful about
it.
But I think one of the thingsthat dawned on me as I was
writing the first book was thatif I'm not honest about my story
, then people will be like whothe hell is this person coming
to tell me how to go?
And I think it was so importantto be honest about my own story
(25:43):
and it is part of what we haveincluded.
We included in the first bookaround sort of how overcoming it
is important, what steps areimportant to overcome it, which
was you have to tell people, andmaybe you'll never tell people
on a larger, grand scale, maybeyou'll just tell certain people
around you that are close to you, but being able to talk about
it is really freeing and ittakes it out of this darkness
(26:04):
that is once shameful and bringsit out to the light.
And I think people have a lotof empathy and connection across
it generally not always, butgenerally and I think it's
really recognizing that thatpersonal story can be also
really enlightening, supportiveto other people, so that they
can also share these things withothers.
So I try to model, I try topractice what I preach and try
(26:28):
to model it.
But it is really important tobe able to tell your story, even
the difficult parts of it whereimposter syndrome has played a
role.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah, insanely important.
All right, you know the routine.
This is where I hit the pausebutton.
I hope you've enjoyed part onewith Dr Lisa Orbe-Austin and I
hope that you'll join us nextweek for part two.
We're going to deep dive intonavigating senior leadership
roles while maintainingwork-life integration, setting
and modeling healthy boundariesand executive positions,
(26:57):
creating psychological safetyand workplace cultures and
preparing the next generation ofleaders.
So make sure you check back innext week and listen to part two
.
Thank you so much for listeningand for being here on this
journey with me.
I hope you'll stick around.
If you liked this episode.
(27:17):
It would mean the world for meif you would rate and review the
podcast or share it withsomeone you know may need to
hear this message.
I love to hear from you all andwant you to know that you can
leave me a voicemail directly.
If you go to my website,evokegreatnesscom, and go to the
contact me tab, you'll just hitthe big old orange button and
record your message.
I love the feedback andcomments that I've been getting,
(27:41):
so please keep them coming.
I'll leave you with the wisewords of author Robin Sharma
Greatness comes by doing a fewsmall and smart things each and
every day.
It comes from taking littlesteps consistently.
It comes from making a fewsmall chips against everything
in your professional andpersonal life that is ordinary,
so that a day eventually arriveswhen all that's left is the
(28:03):
extraordinary.
Welcome to Evoke Greatness.
We are officially entering yearthree of this podcast and I am
filled with so much gratitudefor each and every one of you
who've joined me on thisincredible journey of growth and
self-discovery.
I'm Sunny, your host and fellowtraveler on this path of
personal evolution.
This podcast is a sanctuary forthe curious, the ambitious and
(00:28):
the introspective.
It's for those of you who, likeme, are captivated by the
champion mindset and driven byan insatiable hunger for growth
and knowledge.
Whether you're just beginningyour journey or you're well
along your path, you're going tofind stories here that resonate
with your experiences andaspirations.
Over the last two years, we'veshared countless stories of
triumph and challenge, ofresilience and transformation.
(00:51):
We've laughed, we've reflectedand we've grown together.
And as we've evolved, so toohas this podcast.
Remember, no matter whatchapter you're on in your own
story, you belong here.
This community we've builttogether is a place of support,
inspiration and shared growth.
Where intention goes, energyflows, and the energy you bring
(01:13):
to this space elevates us all.
So, whether you're listeningwhile commuting, working out or
enjoying your morning coffee,perhaps from one of those
motivational mugs I'm so fond of, know that you're a part of
something special.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for your curiosity,your openness and your
commitment to personal growth.
As we embark on year three, Iinvite you to lean in, to listen
(01:36):
deeply and to let these storiesresonate with your soul.
I believe that a rising tideraises all ships and I invite
you along in this journey toevoke greatness.
(01:57):
Welcome back to another episodeof Evoke Greatness.
Today I'm excited to have withus Dr Lisa Orbe-Austin, a
renowned psychologist, careercoach and organizational
consultant who's helpingprofessionals overcome imposter
syndrome and reach their fullpotential.
As the co-founder of DynamicTransitions Psychological
Consulting, she's guidedcountless individuals through
(02:17):
career transitions andleadership challenges.
Her groundbreaking book Ownyour Greatness, Overcome
Imposter Syndrome, beatSelf-Doubt and Succeed in Life
has become a guide forprofessionals struggling with
self-doubt.
A sought-after speaker andthought leader, her insights
have been featured in the NewYork Times, forbes, nbc News and
Psychology Today.
Her unique approach combinesclinical psychology with
(02:39):
practical career developmentstrategies, helping people
transform their relationshipwith success.
She brings a wealth ofknowledge about workplace
dynamics, diversity andinclusion.
Their relationship with success.
She brings a wealth ofknowledge about workplace
dynamics, diversity andinclusion, and personal
development.
Today, she's going to sharesome powerful strategies for
building authentic confidenceand creating lasting career
success.
Lisa, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me, sunny, absolutely, I always
(03:00):
like to kick off theseconversations with a little bit
of backstory.
I'm curious for you, had youalways known kind of this was
like this is the field that I'mgoing to go into, or is that
something you kind of formed ordiscovered a little bit more
along the way.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Early on I thought I was going to be a pediatrician.
So from early on it was notthis and I think you know,
throughout my course ofeducation I started to realize I
really didn't love the sciencesthat much and I sort of loved
people and their resilience andability to deal with troubles
but also sometimes needingsupport in that process.
So I eventually exploredcounseling and got a master's
(03:37):
degree, loved it and thenpursued my PhD.
I always thought I would be inpractice.
I just got derailed a coupletimes in that process.
So I do think I always thoughtI would be in practice.
I definitely did not think Iwould be in practice like this.
An imposter syndrome expert wasdefinitely not on my list about
what I was going to end updoing.
(03:58):
It was a bit of happenstancebut very much related to my own
experience.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
The reason I reached out to you is because you're an
expert in this area, and myprimary audience makeup is women
who are in senior and executiveleadership roles and I don't
know about anybody out therelistening.
Maybe you have all have neverexperienced this before right a
day in your career, lord knows.
I have battled with this likegnashing of teeth many a times
in my career, and so that's whyI was so excited to bring you on
(04:26):
, and many of our listeners arewomen who have earned their way
through relentless drive andexcellence.
And yet the higher they climb,the louder their inner critic
becomes, and so, as someonewho's both studied and lived in
this phenomenon, what surprisedyou most about your own
relationship with success as youhave advanced in your career?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I mean I think you know it's a great question.
I don't know if I I guess I'msurprised I'm here.
I also struggle with impostersyndrome and that's what led me
to a career.
Doing this is.
I just started speaking aboutit and then my publisher found
me and wanted to write a bookaround imposter syndrome.
That's how it all started.
But I think my older self wouldhave never thought I would have
been here.
(05:06):
My imposter syndrome self justalways believed like these
limiting ideas of what waspossible for me.
And I don't think I dreamedthis big when I was thinking
about sort of what was going tohappen to my career, because I
just really felt like I was justtreading water, trying to
survive it all and if somebodywas going to eventually find out
I didn't deserve any of it andit was going to take it all away
from me.
So I really lived in that placejust trying to hold on to what
(05:29):
I had and killing myself in theprocess of trying to hold on to
it.
So I don't think I allowedmyself to dream this the heck at
all.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yeah, it's interesting as I think back on
my career.
Obviously it's hindsight right.
There's so much wisdom andexperience acquired throughout
the time of growing and thosemoments that were painful in the
moment that we thought for surewe'll never survive, whatever
experience we were going through.
But I remember being at my veryfirst, in my very first
leadership role, sitting aroundthe table, feeling exactly what
you said Someone is going tostand up and be like what is she
(06:03):
doing here?
And I thought for sure thatfirst meeting I sat there just
waiting the entire time.
I don't even remember what themeeting was about, but I sat
there in such fear that someonewas going to be like what are
you doing here?
And so that resonates so deeplywith me, and I'm sure so many
people who are listening havefelt that same way, like, ooh,
who am I to fill in the blankright?
(06:26):
And I think back to I wasprobably 35 years old before I
really started kind of embracinga growth mindset versus this
fixed like kind of fear-basedimposter syndrome type space
that I occupied, and so it'sonly been 10 years and I think,
gosh, I want to shout it fromthe rooftops now so that people
(06:46):
don't feel alone.
So people don't feel like youknow that one person in a room
who doesn't feel like theydeserve to be there.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's what drove me into this
career path was that when I wasable to kind of do the work, to
kind of release myself, and Ibegan to see the possibilities
of my career and my life, I waslike nobody should have to
struggle with this, like it issuch a limiting experience
Although sometimes we get a lotfrom it, like we do achieve and
(07:13):
do do things, but the experienceof it is terrible.
It just feels like you know,you don't want to celebrate it
because it often feelsprecarious, like it feels really
scary on the other side, eventhough everyone's like, oh, you
must love this, you're justreally just clenching on for
dear life.
And so I do think that's whatdrove the interest in this area
was like I want nobody tosomeday, nobody to have to ever
(07:37):
say that they can experiencethis, that would be a really
lovely like ultimate goal Right.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Completely agree.
You've worked with a number offemale executives who probably
appear pretty unshakable totheir teams and yet, privately
again, like that gnashing ofteeth, that grappling with that
profound self-doubt, was there amoment from your practice that
fundamentally changed how youunderstood the unique pressure
that women face in leadership?
Speaker 2 (08:04):
pressure that women face in leadership.
Well, that's a good question.
I don't think there was any onemoment.
I think you know I knew it frommy own experiences in the
workforce I mean I talk about inmy TEDx talk.
I mean I was on a seniorleadership team when it all kind
of came down and I all Istarted to realize what was
happening and and I'll share thestory, which is that you know I
was really had super toxic boss.
(08:24):
He was very terrible, but hisentire leadership team was women
and he was specificallyunderpaying me in comparison to
my counterpart and wouldn't giveme a raise, also was terribly
awful in public, would humiliateme.
It was just terrible.
And everyone in my family wantedme to quit and move on.
They were saying you're socapable of doing so many things
(08:44):
and you could go wherever youwant.
And I just didn't believe thatat all.
I just thought, like you don'tknow what you're talking about,
I'm just lucky to have this job.
And then I was in a seniorleadership meeting where there
was music playing and someoneasked what's that music that's
playing in the background?
And he said it's music tosoothe the savage breast.
And in that one moment I startedto realize that he knew what he
(09:06):
was doing, whether consciouslyor unconsciously, that because
we were women, he thought of usas savages and he thought of us
as having to be tamed.
And the way he tamed us wasembarrassing us publicly and
underpaying us.
And it just all came to me andyou know, it just like flooded
me and I went back to my officeand I called my husband and I
told him I'm quitting and he waslike quit, he's been telling me
(09:30):
to quit the job for months andmonths, and months.
And I cleared out my officethat weekend and I came up to
him Monday morning into hisoffice and turned in my keys and
told him I quit on the spot.
And he cried, he yelled at me,he threatened my career.
He said I've never worked inmeditation again.
And it was a really difficultmoment in which I felt like I
had potentially blown up mywhole life.
(09:51):
But I also did not want to gobackwards and it was the
beginning of me recovering frommy imposter syndrome.
And so in the work that I dowith women and senior leaders, I
see a lot of echoes in thatexperience of either being
mistreated or having to do somuch more because they're
expected to perform, no matterwhat's happening in their life,
(10:14):
whether they're having childrenor, like you know and I see it
all the time and and I thinkthat piece, you know, has
profoundly changed me over thetime to want to really just
advocate especially for womenand people of color around, like
making sure that they geteverything that they deserve,
whether that is time and space,or whether it's money or whether
(10:35):
it's title, super drive towardlike that's the that drives me,
that drives me in my career,like I just love helping people
get to the place that they wantto be at, but it it is.
So it is so hard it is, it isexponentially harder for women
and people of color to go upthese ladders.
And and you think it'd beeasier over time, but it has not
(10:59):
been easier over time and Isometimes and I've been talking
a lot about this with withleaders that work with about how
there's been almost like areversion in the last three to
five years and how more maleleadership feels in a lot of
spaces it's like it's gonebackwards and no one's noticing.
And so I do think now more thanever, it is also so important
(11:20):
to be supporting women leadersto get what they need, to get
the visibility they need, to getthe pay that they need.
All of that becomes even moreimportant to me.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, and you hit on such an important note there.
I want to talk about thedelicate balance Many women
executives navigate and that'sbeing seen as both strong and
authentic or compassionate, youknow, and it's like gosh.
That's a fine line.
You've developed some specificstrategies for women who feel
(11:49):
like they're constantlymodulating their leadership
presence.
What have you discovered aboutembracing power while staying
true to oneself?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
for a woman, I mean, I think it's for me, when I'm
working with my leaders, so muchof what I'm trying to get at is
like their authentic, theirauthentic presence in their
leadership.
How do they, how do they wantto show up?
Some of them, you know, do wantto show up more, more powerful
and more, and some of them don't.
And so how do we allow them,you know, to to feel comfort in
(12:15):
that leadership style when it'sdifferent from other people and
they're being judged for it?
Like, no doubt, in my mind,they're being judged?
I mean, I hear so many timesfrom my women judged for it Like
, no doubt, in my mind, they'rebeing judged.
I mean I hear so many timesfrom my women executives like
they've been told, you know, inthe past, you know or currently,
that they don't have executivepresence, which is just code
word for like you don't looklike an executive to me it's not
because of competence or skill,it's bias.
(12:37):
And so, like really helpingthem to get the advocates they
need to support them in theirauthenticity.
Like they need other peopleadvocating for them on the
inside, often either equal tothem in power or senior to them
in power, who understand whatthey're getting at and why they
do what they do and as a staunchsupporter, so in those quiet
rooms when other people aresaying things, they're shutting
(12:59):
that down.
And so I do think, you know,doing it not alone is incredibly
important, with mentors,supporters, sponsors.
But I also think too, like youknow, also not you know, I think
one of the things that happenswith imposter syndrome is you
tend to overvalue others andundervalue yourself, and this is
specifically important whenyou're overvaluing what you see
as leadership, which is manytimes, for many of us have been
(13:20):
male, and so to overvalue it isto think that's what a leader
looks like, and I think it's soimportant for women leaders to
really, to really redefine that.
What does a leader look likefor you and really being able to
own that?
Yes, there are certain thingsall leaders have to do, but in
terms of how you express that,you're finding the environments
(13:41):
and finding the confidence inyourself to just go out and do
that.
It's super hard, it's easiersaid than done, but it is sort
of.
This is the sort of likemindset I'm thinking about when
I'm working with my femaleleaders.
I'm not trying to make theminto something, I'm trying to
help them be their full selvesin the environments, in the
complicated environments they'rein.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, and you mentioned what's right for them,
right, and sometimes that's apersonal and unique way that
they want to approach leadership, and that could be personal and
a little bit different to eachindividual.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Yep, absolutely, and I think that's why that
particular component of impostersyndrome is so problematic,
because I think oftentimes oneof the reasons why we feel like
we're a fraud and we don'tbelong is because we have some
archetype of what success lookslike in our role, and that
archetype is usually perfect inour minds.
In some ways, it usually isflawless, makes no mistakes,
(14:36):
often looks like something thatyou don't look like, so I think
it leads you to feel like you'rea fraud.
But this is why it's soimportant to recognize that
expertise, competence, powercomes in all different forms,
and the way that you're going tofeel that most is if you're
authentically expressing thatpower and that leadership and
not trying to be somebody elseto do it.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, your research touches on how high-achieving
women often experience successdifferently than their male
counterparts.
What patterns have you noticedabout how senior women leaders
internalize their achievementsand how does this impact their
decision-making at an executivelevel?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Well, so what we've seen is that in the research
that imposter syndrome whenleaders have imposter syndrome
and they're female, we typicallysee them being counterphobic,
so they will actually face thething that they fear, but as a
result, they'll be triggered toexperience their imposter
syndrome more often.
So I think this is part of thatmythology that only women have
(15:37):
imposter syndrome, which is nottrue.
Both men and women experienceimposter syndrome and just until
recently, like since July, wasthe first like conclusive
research piece that came out andsaid women do experience it
more.
But for a long time we thoughtof it as equivalent because
there was no consistent researchon that.
But I do think it's really, andmen typically, what we see for
(16:00):
men is that they tend to aimtoward mastery and so they want
to get things mastered so thatthey always feel on top of the
game.
But then, as a result of that,they don't take a lot of risks
and they don't really putthemselves in positions where
they can, you know, fail or butand that and that sort of gets
them underperforming.
So there, but that's not trueof every single woman, but
that's what the research findsin general.
(16:22):
So I do think it's like we dotend to achieve and achieve a
lot, but it's under duressoftentimes.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Yeah, well, many listeners are at a fascinating
inflection point where they'veproven themselves technically
excellent, right, but now facethe challenge of shifting from
tactical expertise to strategicleadership.
How does imposter syndromeevolve at this transition, and
what do you think unexpectedopportunities does that present?
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah.
So I'm never a fan of believingthat imposter syndrome presents
any unique advantages.
I don't think it does, but I dothink one of the things that we
tend to see when you go from Isee an excellent individual
contributor to now a manager orleader, is that some of the
behaviors, if you haven't dealtwith them directly, start coming
(17:09):
out in your management style.
So, for example, micromanagingdirect reports, because you're
very afraid that your directreports will, you know, look,
look badly, and then you willlook badly as their manager.
So you get overly involved inwhat they're doing, which makes
the job so much harder becausein essence, you're supposed to
be doing your job, not your joband their job, and so it also
(17:30):
kind of runs the risk of alsoburning you out and also
creating like some tension inyour org that becomes really
hard to resolve.
So in addition, we see thatpeople with imposter, like
leaders with imposter syndrome,tend to undervalue their team.
So not that they undervalue them, sometimes directly to them,
but when they're going out totalk to other leaders about what
(17:51):
their team has done, they'renot blowing them up or making
them shine or kind of stickingthem out, they're just sort of
talking about them sort of doingtheir jobs, you know, and you
know that's about it.
They really don't know how toadvertise or kind of you know
and you know that's about it.
So they really don't know howto advertise or kind of you know
, kind of you know, supporttheir teams publicly so that
they get more resources, moreopportunities.
They tend to struggle with thatand I think also for
(18:12):
individually, what we see happenfor them is that they tend to
underrate themselves andperformance, self performance
reviews, which can affect compand promotion and all of these
things.
So I do think it can reallysignificantly affect your
leadership and I can't tell youhow many times I have a client
who says I think my boss hasimposter syndrome and I don't
know what to do about it.
It's a very complicated thing.
(18:33):
It was just why I believeleaders need to deal with that,
because it spreads all over theplace.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
That reminds or that makes me curious about.
Do you think there's a mirroreffect or impact for those you
lead?
When you're battling impostersyndrome, we oftentimes feel
like it's something that's onlyinternal right.
Nobody else can see it or feelit and people can sometimes the
way that we're showing up.
What do you think that mirroreffect or impact could be on the
(19:01):
team that you lead?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I mean, I see it because I see some of my clients
dealing with bosses that fromall accounts and sort of what
they're reporting sounds likethey are, and so the behaviors
speak louder than words.
And so you know in these kindsof situations what you do create
.
For, interestingly enough, ifanybody on your team has
imposter syndrome, you'rereinforcing it, so you're just
making their imposter syndromefeel like it's normative and
(19:25):
that everyone has it and thatyou just have to live like this.
And so that's particularlyproblematic.
But also too, for people whoeither are building their
confidence or you start to makethem feel insecure about what
they're contributing if yourhands are all over it and then
you can't grow a team properly.
Eventually those direct reportsneed to feel competent enough
(19:45):
to be able to take over yourrole or to be able to kind of
get to the next level, whateverit may be.
So in essence, you're modelingsuch problematic behavior.
Even if the team is successful,it is still problematic to be
overworking or to bemicromanaging or to be
underrepresenting yourself.
So all of those things you knowthe team feels professionally
(20:06):
and personally, and so I dothink it's so important to
recognize it and be honest withsort of what's happening is so
critically, it changes the game.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, you've noted that women often approach risk
differently at the executivelevel.
Can you talk through how themost successful female leaders
that you've worked with havelearned to reframe their
relationship with uncertaintyand bold decision making?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
feel like their power is within their control and
isn't performative or isn't sortof, you know, not real, really
helps them, I think, to takebigger risks and bigger
challenges on and feel less likeunder threat.
When they make a mistake orthere's a little issue here,
they just feel like okay, that'sjust how it goes and they keep
moving forward and they don'tfeel any shame and they don't
sort of like you know, kind ofpublicly, kind of like shame
themselves, but they just reallyadapt really well to the
(21:03):
difficulties that are going onin their professional life.
And I don't think that if theyfeel this pressure, when they
overcome it and deal with it,that they're going to be fired
at any moment.
So they're less cautious andthey're more prone to take risks
.
So I do think that does helpyou also advance in your career
when you're willing to take ongreater things that you're not
fully competent in yet.
But we'll get there.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
And just to kind of shine a light on the other end
of the spectrum.
There is a lot of fear withthat.
When you're battling with thatimposter syndrome, fear in
taking sort of high risksbecause you're worried about how
it's going to reflect on you.
What's it going to look like?
You know?
How is it going to impact youin the future?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
If I make a mistake, what happens?
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Right right.
So it's like what are theunintended consequences if I
take this risk?
And so, as you think about it,it's like gosh and that can
really hold you back becauseyou're going to be kind of stuck
in the space of being tooscared to take a risk when that
risk could have ample rewards.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yeah, and I think that's what I mean.
You beautifully captured it.
That is the real consequence ofimposter syndrome is that
stuckness, and I think my storyis emblematic of that.
I was stuck in a job I couldn'tleave because of these thoughts
I had about who I was and whatI was capable of, and actually
leaving that opportunity, takingthat risk and it was a big risk
(22:22):
for me, you know ended upreally opening up my world and
giving me so many moreopportunities that I couldn't
even think of at the moment.
I really didn't even think ofwhat I was capable of.
So I do think it really can, youknow, just give you and I've
seen it with my clients likesometimes I'm even shocked at
what they're capable of doingafterwards, okay, I think, big
(22:42):
for my clients, but sometimesthey've blown me like away, like
I remember a client I had whoyou know was an architect and
was really being treated sopoorly in her work environment
and, you know, was to the pointwhere she had actually designed
the building that they weremoving into and she wasn't even
invited to the ribbon cutting.
And, you know, to the pointwhere she had actually designed
the building that they weremoving into and she wasn't even
invited to the ribbon cuttingand you know, and then treated
(23:05):
like she was a custodian at onepoint asking her to clean up
some coffee stain on the rug.
You know, we kind of encouragedher.
We kind of worked with hertogether in a group program we
had done and to encourage her tolook at what her other options
were.
And she was so afraid toconsider other options because
she was just like what ifsomebody else here is a small
industry?
What if I go out there and Idon't get it?
And then I have to stay hereand live with that?
(23:26):
And she took some risks veryquickly.
She landed something that paidway more than she was currently
making.
And then she just told us acouple of months ago that she
just opened her own firm.
And I don't think she everthought she'd ever get that.
I don't know if we ever thoughtthat.
We thought that her gettingthis higher paying job that was
so great and had a nine to fivebalance and all this stuff was
(23:47):
going to be a really big thing.
But she went on to bigger andbigger things because I don't
think she feared risk as muchand I think she knew she's
capable of recovering from eventhe worst risk she could imagine
she could recover from.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Yeah, and I think that just goes back to like that
modeling piece is like you said, I think big for my clients,
but sometimes they blow it outof the water.
It makes me think about likethe modeling of kind of getting
to that place where you giveyourself permission to step into
your greatness.
And my way of doing that you'rekind of modeling or vicariously
(24:22):
allowing other people to seelike what is possible for
themselves, and I think that'sthe really cool part about it
and that's also the really coolpart of authenticity.
And sharing your journey is sothat other people can see who
sometimes feel alone.
They sometimes feel likethey're the only ones feeling
this way in the world.
But yet a lot of us have beenthere, A lot of us have gone
through the valleys to get tothe peaks, but oftentimes it's
(24:45):
those lessons in the valleysthat are the most powerful and
impactful for us.
But when we can authenticallyshare our story and show up in
our own greatness, man, thatgives permission for people
around us to step into theirs.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yeah, and I think talking I mean the first time I
really talked about it was in mytedx talk and when I talked
about my own vulnerability I hadnot that that that had occurred
to me like years ago, like theincident had occurred years
prior to the, and I reallydidn't talk about it a lot
because I felt a lot of shameabout it, frankly, and I felt
like you know that I should.
I should have, like I shouldhave looked for another job and
got another job before I left it.
(25:21):
I should have not been soimpulsive.
It was a lot of differentthings that felt shameful about
it.
But I think one of the thingsthat dawned on me as I was
writing the first book was thatif I'm not honest about my story
, then people will be like whothe hell is this person coming
to tell me how to go?
And I think it was so importantto be honest about my own story
(25:43):
and it is part of what we haveincluded.
We included in the first bookaround sort of how overcoming it
is important, what steps areimportant to overcome it, which
was you have to tell people, andmaybe you'll never tell people
on a larger, grand scale, maybeyou'll just tell certain people
around you that are close to you, but being able to talk about
it is really freeing and ittakes it out of this darkness
(26:04):
that is once shameful and bringsit out to the light.
And I think people have a lotof empathy and connection across
it generally not always, butgenerally and I think it's
really recognizing that thatpersonal story can be also
really enlightening, supportiveto other people, so that they
can also share these things withothers.
So I try to model, I try topractice what I preach and try
(26:28):
to model it.
But it is really important tobe able to tell your story, even
the difficult parts of it whereimposter syndrome has played a
role.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah, insanely important.
All right, you know the routine.
This is where I hit the pausebutton.
I hope you've enjoyed part onewith Dr Lisa Orbe-Austin and I
hope that you'll join us nextweek for part two.
We're going to deep dive intonavigating senior leadership
roles while maintainingwork-life integration, setting
and modeling healthy boundariesand executive positions,
(26:57):
creating psychological safetyand workplace cultures and
preparing the next generation ofleaders.
So make sure you check back innext week and listen to part two
.
Thank you so much for listeningand for being here on this
journey with me.
I hope you'll stick around.
If you liked this episode.
(27:17):
It would mean the world for meif you would rate and review the
podcast or share it withsomeone you know may need to
hear this message.
I love to hear from you all andwant you to know that you can
leave me a voicemail directly.
If you go to my website,evokegreatnesscom, and go to the
contact me tab, you'll just hitthe big old orange button and
record your message.
I love the feedback andcomments that I've been getting,
(27:41):
so please keep them coming.
I'll leave you with the wisewords of author Robin Sharma
Greatness comes by doing a fewsmall and smart things each and
every day.
It comes from taking littlesteps consistently.
It comes from making a fewsmall chips against everything
in your professional andpersonal life that is ordinary,
so that a day eventually arriveswhen all that's left is the
(28:03):
extraordinary.
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