December 5, 2024 • 23 mins
🎧 Episode 146: From Self-Doubt to Success | Part 2 with Dr. Lisa Orbe-Austin
In this powerful conclusion of our conversation with Dr. Lisa Orbe-Austin, we explore how women leaders can create sustainable success while maintaining balance and fostering healthier workplace cultures. Building on the foundations of authentic leadership discussed in Part 1, Dr. Orbe-Austin shares practical strategies for setting boundaries and redefining success on your own terms.
We dive deep into:
- Redefining work-life integration for senior leaders
- Creating reciprocal boundary-setting in organizations
- Breaking the isolation of women in C-suite positions
- Building supportive networks across leadership roles
- Transforming traditional leadership models
- Understanding the transgenerational impact of impostor syndrome
🔑 Key takeaways:
- More responsibility doesn't have to mean more hours - it's about working smarter
- Share your boundaries and actively ask about others' boundaries
- Create systems of support both inside and outside your organization
- Success definitions should come from within, not from external validation
- Leadership evolution requires unlearning traditional toxic practices
- Early intervention can prevent impostor syndrome in the next generation
💡 Quotes to remember: "We'll never survive in this workplace that was built for men if we work like men. We have to work in the context of how our lives fit." - Dr. Lisa Orbe-Austin
"Be brave and think big... not just in service of surviving, but dream big for yourself." - Dr. Lisa Orbe-Austin
📚 Resources:
- NEW BOOK: "Your Child's Greatness" - Releasing February 11th
- Instagram: @DoctorOrbeAustin
- Dynamic Transitions Psychological Consulting: www.dynamictransitionsllp.com
EXCITING NEWS: Dr. Orbe-Austin's upcoming book "Your Child's Greatness" tackles the roots of impostor syndrome in childhood development. Pre-order now for its February 11th release!
A rising tide raises all ships, and I invite you along on this journey to Evoke Greatness!
Check out my website: www.evokegreatness.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Evoke Greatness.
We are officially entering yearthree of this podcast and I am
filled with so much gratitudefor each and every one of you
who've joined me on thisincredible journey of growth and
self-discovery.
I'm Sunny, your host and fellowtraveler on this path of
personal evolution.
This podcast is a sanctuary forthe curious, the ambitious and
(00:28):
the introspective.
It's for those of you who, likeme, are captivated by the
champion mindset and driven byan insatiable hunger for growth
and knowledge.
Whether you're just beginningyour journey or you're well
along your path, you're going tofind stories here that resonate
with your experiences andaspirations.
Over the last two years, we'veshared countless stories of
triumph and challenge, ofresilience and transformation.
(00:51):
We've laughed, we've reflectedand we've grown together.
And as we've evolved, so toohas this podcast.
Remember, no matter whatchapter you're on in your own
story, you belong here.
This community we've builttogether is a place of support,
inspiration and shared growth.
Where intention goes, energyflows, and the energy you bring
(01:13):
to this space elevates us all.
So, whether you're listeningwhile commuting, working out or
enjoying your morning coffee,perhaps from one of those
motivational mugs I'm so fond of, know that you're a part of
something special.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for your curiosity,your openness and your
commitment to personal growth.
As we embark on year three, Iinvite you to lean in, to listen
(01:36):
deeply and to let these storiesresonate with your soul.
I believe that a rising tideraises all ships and I invite
you along in this journey toevoke greatness.
(01:57):
Welcome back to part two with myguest, dr Lisa Orbe-Austin.
In this episode, we're going totalk through navigating senior
leadership roles whilemaintaining work-life
integration, setting andmodeling healthy boundaries,
creating psychological safety inworkplace cultures and
preparing the next generation ofleaders.
And if you haven't yet, makesure to go back and listen to
(02:18):
part one, where we deep dive howmuch success often looks
different than we initiallyimagined.
The fact that leadership comesin many authentic forms and
there isn't one right way tolead.
The fact that imposter syndromecan significantly impact how we
develop our teams and the waythat, as leaders, we share our
struggles can actually freeothers to acknowledge and
overcome their own.
(02:38):
I hope you've enjoyed it so far.
Let's go ahead and hop into it.
The women in our audience areoften juggling high stakes
leadership roles with managingfull lives outside of work.
How have you seen topperformers shift their
perspective on that.
You know air quotes, having itall, and what that means,
particularly as they gain moreinfluence and responsibility.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, I mean, I think I often hear this from people
who are like middle management,but they're like you know who
you know recently, you know,either got married or thinking
about starting a family, andthey've often said to me I don't
want to grow in my career,because growing in my career
means more, like I'll have tospend more time, more this, more
(03:20):
that, and I don't think I cando both.
And I think what is soimportant for us as women, as we
kind of grow in our careers, isrecognizing that we, if we take
up our power and we choose theright environments, we can work
normal hours and be senior anddo what we need to do and still,
like I was just talking tosomeone today who's like a
(03:41):
president of an organization andshe was saying you know, I
start my morning off and I workout and I tell them this help me
by telling my dark reports.
Like I don't talk to anyoneduring that time, I compromise
with no one.
Like I pick up my son at acertain hour and nobody talks to
me.
So she's taken up her power sothat her life can be balanced.
And I think you, you have tothink about with more
responsibility doesn'tnecessarily come more hours.
(04:02):
It just means sort of learningto work in a way that your life
fits into your work life andmodeling that for other women,
because we'll never survive inthis workplace that was built
for men If we work like men.
We have to work in the contextof how our lives fit, you know,
and so I do think it's soimportant.
Boundaries are important, notoverworking is important.
(04:23):
Try not to prove yourself asimportant, really just taking up
your confidence and your powerand really using it to kind of
craft the life and the careeryou want to craft.
And I've seen it time and timeagain, you can.
You can have a normal life andyou can raise a family and you
can have really senior positions.
(04:44):
I see it all the time in mypractice all the time, but it's
not typical.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
But you do carve out the pathway for others to do the
same yeah, and that type ofself-care and boundaries are
what lead to us not only beingphysically healthy, but really
strong and healthy mental healthas well, and that is so
important because we can tipthose scales the really wrong
way, and not only does thaterode our physical health, but
(05:12):
our mental health as well.
And I think we see probably abigger struggle today, or maybe
we're talking about it, shininga light on it more than ever.
But you're right when someonesays hey, it's not unrealistic
to say hey during this period oftime.
This is my do not disturb time.
I will holler at you as soon asI'm done here.
But establishing that boundaryand then having people respect
(05:36):
that boundary, that's a reallyimportant relationship to have.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, and I think it's you know this leader that I
was talking to this morning.
One of the things she said tome was, like I tell my direct
reports what my boundaries are,and then I asked them to tell me
what their boundaries are,because she said the company is
a building, you know, but Irepresent the company and I'm
going to try to get as much outof you as I can, and you have to
(06:00):
let me know what yourboundaries are or I'll keep
thinking, you know, I won't knowthat there are boundaries.
And so I think it was such abeautiful way to kind of
articulate the fact that youknow not only do you have to
respect your own boundaries, butyou have to respect other
people, and they will bedifferent from yours.
It won't be that you happen tomatch up your extra sky
schedules or pickup schedule.
You'll have to accommodate it,but you also want yours
accommodated, and so I thinkit's such an important way to
(06:22):
think about setting boundariesand building culture around it.
I think it's so important, butit's complicated, it's not
simple, but I think you know itis important, especially for
women, to be able to havebalance, and I do think you're.
You are absolutely right.
I don't know if we're talkingabout mental health more in the
workplace or if there's justgreater you know, greater
(06:44):
awareness, or if there's greaterissues, but I am hearing this
conversation, like everywhere,about you know people's mental
health, suffering from their,the impact directly of work, you
know, and feeling like theydon't even know what to do do
because they're seeing peopledeteriorate mental health-wise
but they don't have the skillsor the knowledge about how to
(07:04):
handle it at the workplace.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Yeah, and I love what you said about that reciprocal
feedback right and gettingsharing your boundaries and
asking that of others.
And I am new in a role.
I just accepted a position as aCEO with a company just a
couple weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Congratulations.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
I'm so excited, thank you.
I say this because I wanteverybody to know you can teach
an old dog new tricks.
Right, we can change the way welead and model an example,
because, as you said, that I'mworking right now to get to know
my team members what works forthem, what doesn't, but I never
thought about asking them whatare your boundaries?
And so that is going to be apiece that I insert into my kind
(07:45):
of get to know you side ofthings, because I do want to
know.
I expect 150% right Now.
Is that possible all the time?
No, it's not.
I'm not going to be able togive 150% all the time, but when
I share what my boundaries areand then I actually ask for what
theirs are, we're exhibiting topeople that their boundaries
(08:05):
are important as well, and if wedon't know them how can we
respect them?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Absolutely, and that we're also saying you don't have
to get to a point where youneed to set boundaries in order
to tell me what they are.
You can tell me them up front.
And I think what she also said,which I thought was really
helpful, is because nobody'sbeen asked this question, a lot
of them just looked at her andkind of was like I don't know
what to do with this, and shelet them kind of go away and
think about their boundaries andthen come back and tell her
(08:29):
also that these were kind ofmovable targets, like if they
changed, to let her know, youknow.
So I do think like it's such acontinuing ongoing conversation,
but I think such an importantone to have healthier
environments where there ispsychological safety and people
can protect their mentalwell-being and can have more
than just a work life and have apersonal life, and so I'm all
(08:49):
for teaching old dogs and oldsystems new tricks.
So I love the idea that wecould go around and do something
different.
That would be better forourselves and better for others.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah, and I would encourage you know those who are
seasoned leaders, who are, whohave their routine shake it up a
little bit, throw, throw insome things that shake it up a
little bit and and stretch yourown self, stretch the way in
which you lead and and thinkoutside of that normal box that
sometimes gets comfortable.
Think about what'suncomfortable again, like in the
best possible way, but I thinkthat would surprise sometimes
(09:25):
the people around you is whenyou're willing to look at
something maybe with a littlebit of a different lens.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Absolutely and I think you know, thinking about
like that particular like lensthat you want to open up, it can
be really helpful, and I do, Ido really believe, like it.
You know, I remember asupervisor once telling me this
in my training but he was likenever stop learning and never
stop being uncomfortable, thatyou don't know, and I thought it
was such a good point becausehe's like it doesn't have to be
(09:50):
therapy or psychology, it couldbe like learning a new skill.
But he's like there's such adiscomfort with learning a new
skill.
You always have to be in thatdiscomfort because when, as a
therapist, you're asking someoneto make changes, you have to
understand how hard that is andwhat kind of effort they're
putting into making changesbecause you're trying something
new.
I think the same is true forleaders.
If you're asking them to dosomething for you or learn or
(10:13):
stretch, you should also belearning, stretching and
understanding emotionally whatthat feels like.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Yeah, well, there's a it's interesting because I
heard this for years and I neverfully understood it working
more in a kind of a teamcapacity and maybe mid and even
senior level management.
But when you get to thatC-suite or that boardroom
there's a unique kind ofloneliness that can come with
being one of the few women there.
What insights have you gainedabout building genuine
connections and those supportsystems at that level,
especially when vulnerabilityfeels risky?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, it's so true.
I mean, I think you know, asthe women that I work with get
more senior, they do getlonelier, and I do think I'm
often encouraging them, if theycan't find support within the
system, to find otheropportunities to meet with
senior leaders.
You know, women there's allkinds of organizations that are
trying to talk to women leadersbut to find these organizations
(11:07):
so that they connect with otherpeople at the same level, so
that they don't feel alone.
Because I do also think evenwhen there are a couple of women
in the organization that areleaders, they're often turned
against each other in a lot ofways and they can.
I would hope that they can forma connection amongst each other
.
But if you can't because of theway the system is set up, find
(11:28):
it outside and try not to insome ways propagate women coming
after women at that seniorlevel and really try to build
with them, because I do think weare greater and stronger in
numbers when we are doing thistogether.
They want to separate us for areason.
It becomes harder for us tohave power.
We don't have blocks, they'vegot blocks.
You know, men have blocks.
We don't have power.
(11:49):
We need blocks of power too.
Even if we don't love somebody100%, they can still be helpful
and an ally in a lot of ways,and so I do think it's really
important to find community andto not be alone.
It is so important to be ableto rise up the ladder because
men are doing it, they'resharing information about how
they got where they got and theinsider tips and the
relationships, and women arejust working hard oftentimes and
(12:12):
you have to be doing the otherpieces too of building
relationships looking at yournext thing, figuring out angling
, being strategic with your owncareer and I do think
relationships, I think, play themost important part of that.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah, and I think that also requires getting
uncomfortable right, and if youwant to make a connection with
another executive woman, whetherit's in your sphere or not, be
willing to ask.
And sometimes it's going to bethe uncomfortable no, like, no,
I don't want to connect, no, Ican't mentor you, no, you know
whatever, like I, just I'm superbusy right now.
There's going to be the no.
There's also going to be theyes, because there are a lot of
women out there Surprisingly Ithink some people don't
(12:51):
recognize this there's a lot ofwomen out there who are like how
can I show up for you andsupport you?
And sometimes we're in this safebox again, not wanting to take
a risk because I don't want tolook like I don't know what I'm
doing.
Well, no, we all need support.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yeah, yeah, and I think you know, oftentimes what
I see is less of the no the nohappens really rarely but just
more of the ignoring, and peopletake the ignoring as painful as
the no sometimes.
But I think you also have torecognize sometimes there's
other things going on for thatperson why they can't support
you.
They're too busy, they'reoverwhelmed, they're maybe
(13:28):
changing jobs, careers.
So I think just try to think ofthe most positive thing you can
about them if they don'trespond, and keep trying,
because there will be people whosay yes and people who want,
who believe in the mission ofsupporting other women leaders
and know how difficult it is andhow rare it is, and so I do
think it's don't do it alone.
I think it does something to aperson to be doing it alone.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, you've observed that as women reach senior
positions, their definition ofsuccess often undergoes a
profound evolution.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
How do you guide leaders in rewriting their
narrative of achievement,especially when they're blazing
trails for the next generationor for yeah, I mean I think you
know I'm very much reallyinterested before, the legacy
and in what they want forthemselves, and so I'm really
thinking about, like, especiallywith imposter syndrome.
So imposter syndrome has a verynarrow definition of success,
(14:18):
you know, and it's been groomedin you over the years.
So your parents had some idea,like your teachers had some idea
.
Eventually some bosses had someidea, and what happens when you
have imposter syndrome often isthat you don't have an idea of
what success means.
It means whatever someone wouldbe proud of you for doing,
whatever they're recommendingyou for, and I think one of the
things becomes super importantis taking control of your own
(14:39):
career and your own idea of whatsuccess means.
Success may have nothing to dowith money or title.
It may have something to dowith something else, and that is
the thing you should aim towardthen, and then I think you will
create a legacy for the peoplewho are like you and who have
not had the opportunity yet toredefine the success for
themselves.
And so I do think it's reallyabout finding, really having a
(14:59):
deep dive.
Look at what does it mean foryou.
It may not have anything to dowith career.
It might, it actually mighthave something specific to do
with career, but I think it'sreally important to figure out
what is.
My own definitions separatefrom the people I've looked to
for validation before, and itmight be very different from
what even they want.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
As women kind of progress into their careers.
The most powerful womenexecutives often speak of
moments that they had to unlearneverything that they like those
preconceived notions that youhad about leadership.
What do you think you havewitnessed as a transformative
shift in working with women whoare senior and executive leaders
, in them going through theprocess of kind of unpacking and
(15:38):
unlearning some of those thingsthat they had built so strongly
in their minds?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I mean, I think it really when they were kind of
doing the unpacking and thinkingabout, sort of like, how they
want to lead.
That's different from how theywere taught to lead.
I think oftentimes theyrecognize the ways in which
those other ways while they seemuniversal, they seem like the
only way to do things were alsonegatively impactful on their
own lives and careers and thepeople around them.
And so I think what Iexperienced from my leaders is
(16:03):
that you know they're lookingfor a better, gentler, kinder
way to run an organization wherepeople are not having to like
become damaged as a result oftheir experience at the
organization.
It's not always easy, becausesometimes the organization
itself is toxic and you're justtrying to keep your team, you
know not, not toxic.
(16:24):
And but I think it's soimportant to them I think
oftentimes to to try thingsdifferently, to build
relationships differently, andsometimes that comes with a lot
of doubts from other, from otherleaders, like what are you
doing over there?
You know, like it's all liketouchy feely over there.
Why do you care?
What's happening with yourdirect report?
And so I do think that like itdoes often receive a lot of
(16:46):
criticism, especially frompeople holding these traditional
stances, but I don't thinkyou're aiming toward getting
approval from them.
You're aiming towards figuringout, like, whatever your goal is
, whether it's create a cohesiveteam, whether it's to kind of
make sure that you have a teamthat you know values, the work,
values being there with you, butyou know so it depends on what
your goals are.
But I don't often think thatthe women that I work with want
(17:09):
to replicate a model that oftendidn't.
They may have survived it, butit wasn't meant for them and
they didn't necessarilyholistically benefit from it.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Yeah, that's an important word, though they were
surviving in that space.
But is that the environment inwhich you want to create for
others right, and shedding someof those limiting beliefs or
those limitations that we put onourselves again, so that the
environment thrives not just us,not just our team, but that?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
we're really promoting that.
Yeah, exactly, and there's someplace for people to see
something different that works.
You know Right.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Well, you have something coming up in February,
something really exciting.
You've got your next book, yourChild's Greatness.
Tell us a little bit about itand what was the intent of
writing it.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah, so imposter syndrome begins in childhood.
It begins with the expectationsand the kind of ideas around
success and failure that we'reraised with, and so to target
this early so that people don'tdevelop it, we always thought
about developing a book onparenting and things that we
want to kind of push and supportand things that we may want to
(18:17):
change and alter, and so thisbook was really about.
That is, about sort of thingsthat you need to consider around
your child's development,around issues of perfectionism
and issues of performance,anxiety and all of these
different themes that relatespecifically to imposter
syndrome and how to approachthem in a bit of a different
manner so they don't developthese experiences.
(18:37):
And I think we always had thisthought that when we go out and
do talks at organizations toleaders, oftentimes they would
often ask about their kids.
It was really interesting and Iwould be like that is so
interesting, like their kidisn't even here, like, but they
would think about their kids andthen they would ask like how do
I prevent this?
Or I see this developing in mychild, how can I, you know, work
on stopping it?
(18:57):
Because also it can betransgenerational.
So if you struggle withimposter syndrome, in essence,
you're modeling that for yourchildren and that also can
affect the way that they see howyou interact with the world of
work.
And so, you know, I think it'sa it sort of feels like a
natural progression, because thefirst book is about overcoming
a posture individually, thesecond book was about managers,
(19:19):
leaders, culture, and this bookis about sort of our children,
and so I feel like this is sortof like.
You know, for me it's like thefull rounded work that I wanted
to do on it.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I love that and I look forward to it.
I will definitely be grabbing acopy.
I encourage everyone else to aswell.
It's going to be out February11th.
But as we think about it, youknow, we often we've been
talking even about the modelingthat we do in the office or the
modeling we do with our team.
But, dang, we got to step backa little bit and remember we're
only there for eight, whateverhours a day, but we're home the
(19:50):
rest of the time.
And so what are we modeling athome?
And being willing to confrontthose things and have the
self-awareness in service ofyou're, seeking to get better
right, let's make sure that wekind of shed some of that
imposter syndrome and theunintended consequences that
come with it, for the sake ofour children and what kind of
leaders and people they're goingto grow up to be.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
They're going to be.
Yeah, and talking about likelegacy earlier, that is also
part of your legacy of childrenis like the way that they end up
entering the world.
So I do think it's suchimportant piece of the work.
It's for me it's like a wholereset to you.
It's like you know, let's getit nipped in the bud early so
that we don't have to deal withit as leaders later on.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yeah Well, my last question is one that I always
love to ask people and get theirinsights.
And so if it were your last dayon earth and you have thought
about all the experiences andwisdom that you have acquired
over your lifetime, what is theone piece of advice that you
would impart before you go?
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Good question.
I would say be brave and thinkbig.
It's something I didn't reallydo early on and I did not.
You know, I was brave, but notin service of thinking big, just
surviving.
But I think I would.
I would dream big for myself.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Love it.
Well, lisa, I would love foryou to share.
I'll put all this in the shownotes, but where can people find
you?
Follow you get copies of all ofyour books.
Find out more about theservices that you provide.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah, so my books are available in all major
booksellers Amazon, Barnes,Noble you know local independent
places too.
I'm also on Instagram at DrOrbe Austin, where I post I've
been a little shaky over thesummer because of book reserves
being written and I'm also onLinkedIn.
I'm a LinkedIn top voice, soyou can find me talking about
(21:34):
things there.
My company is called DynamicTransition Psychological
Consultancy, the website of allthe services that we tend to
offer.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Excellent, excellent.
Well, as I said, I'll put allof that in the show notes.
Thank you for coming on.
Thank you for using your wisdomand experience and story and
lessons you've acquired to beable to share with others in
their pursuit of greatness.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Thank you so much for listening and for being here on
this journey with me.
I hope you'll stick around Ifyou liked this episode.
It would mean the world for meif you would rate and review the
podcast or share it withsomeone you know may need to
hear this message.
I love to hear from you all andwant you to know that you can
leave me a voicemail directly.
If you go to my website,evokegreatnesscom, and go to the
contact me tab, you'll just hitthe big old orange button and
(22:22):
record your message.
I love the feedback andcomments that I've been getting,
so please keep them coming.
I'll leave you with the wisewords of author Robin Sharma
Greatness comes by doing a fewsmall and smart things each and
every day.
It comes from taking littlesteps consistently.
It comes from making a fewsmall chips against everything
(22:45):
in your professional andpersonal life that is ordinary,
so that a day eventually arriveswhen all that's left is the
extraordinary.
Welcome to Evoke Greatness.
We are officially entering yearthree of this podcast and I am
filled with so much gratitudefor each and every one of you
who've joined me on thisincredible journey of growth and
self-discovery.
I'm Sunny, your host and fellowtraveler on this path of
personal evolution.
This podcast is a sanctuary forthe curious, the ambitious and
(00:28):
the introspective.
It's for those of you who, likeme, are captivated by the
champion mindset and driven byan insatiable hunger for growth
and knowledge.
Whether you're just beginningyour journey or you're well
along your path, you're going tofind stories here that resonate
with your experiences andaspirations.
Over the last two years, we'veshared countless stories of
triumph and challenge, ofresilience and transformation.
(00:51):
We've laughed, we've reflectedand we've grown together.
And as we've evolved, so toohas this podcast.
Remember, no matter whatchapter you're on in your own
story, you belong here.
This community we've builttogether is a place of support,
inspiration and shared growth.
Where intention goes, energyflows, and the energy you bring
(01:13):
to this space elevates us all.
So, whether you're listeningwhile commuting, working out or
enjoying your morning coffee,perhaps from one of those
motivational mugs I'm so fond of, know that you're a part of
something special.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for your curiosity,your openness and your
commitment to personal growth.
As we embark on year three, Iinvite you to lean in, to listen
(01:36):
deeply and to let these storiesresonate with your soul.
I believe that a rising tideraises all ships and I invite
you along in this journey toevoke greatness.
(01:57):
Welcome back to part two with myguest, dr Lisa Orbe-Austin.
In this episode, we're going totalk through navigating senior
leadership roles whilemaintaining work-life
integration, setting andmodeling healthy boundaries,
creating psychological safety inworkplace cultures and
preparing the next generation ofleaders.
And if you haven't yet, makesure to go back and listen to
(02:18):
part one, where we deep dive howmuch success often looks
different than we initiallyimagined.
The fact that leadership comesin many authentic forms and
there isn't one right way tolead.
The fact that imposter syndromecan significantly impact how we
develop our teams and the waythat, as leaders, we share our
struggles can actually freeothers to acknowledge and
overcome their own.
(02:38):
I hope you've enjoyed it so far.
Let's go ahead and hop into it.
The women in our audience areoften juggling high stakes
leadership roles with managingfull lives outside of work.
How have you seen topperformers shift their
perspective on that.
You know air quotes, having itall, and what that means,
particularly as they gain moreinfluence and responsibility.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, I mean, I think I often hear this from people
who are like middle management,but they're like you know who
you know recently, you know,either got married or thinking
about starting a family, andthey've often said to me I don't
want to grow in my career,because growing in my career
means more, like I'll have tospend more time, more this, more
(03:20):
that, and I don't think I cando both.
And I think what is soimportant for us as women, as we
kind of grow in our careers, isrecognizing that we, if we take
up our power and we choose theright environments, we can work
normal hours and be senior anddo what we need to do and still,
like I was just talking tosomeone today who's like a
(03:41):
president of an organization andshe was saying you know, I
start my morning off and I workout and I tell them this help me
by telling my dark reports.
Like I don't talk to anyoneduring that time, I compromise
with no one.
Like I pick up my son at acertain hour and nobody talks to
me.
So she's taken up her power sothat her life can be balanced.
And I think you, you have tothink about with more
responsibility doesn'tnecessarily come more hours.
(04:02):
It just means sort of learningto work in a way that your life
fits into your work life andmodeling that for other women,
because we'll never survive inthis workplace that was built
for men If we work like men.
We have to work in the contextof how our lives fit, you know,
and so I do think it's soimportant.
Boundaries are important, notoverworking is important.
(04:23):
Try not to prove yourself asimportant, really just taking up
your confidence and your powerand really using it to kind of
craft the life and the careeryou want to craft.
And I've seen it time and timeagain, you can.
You can have a normal life andyou can raise a family and you
can have really senior positions.
(04:44):
I see it all the time in mypractice all the time, but it's
not typical.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
But you do carve out the pathway for others to do the
same yeah, and that type ofself-care and boundaries are
what lead to us not only beingphysically healthy, but really
strong and healthy mental healthas well, and that is so
important because we can tipthose scales the really wrong
way, and not only does thaterode our physical health, but
(05:12):
our mental health as well.
And I think we see probably abigger struggle today, or maybe
we're talking about it, shininga light on it more than ever.
But you're right when someonesays hey, it's not unrealistic
to say hey during this period oftime.
This is my do not disturb time.
I will holler at you as soon asI'm done here.
But establishing that boundaryand then having people respect
(05:36):
that boundary, that's a reallyimportant relationship to have.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, and I think it's you know this leader that I
was talking to this morning.
One of the things she said tome was, like I tell my direct
reports what my boundaries are,and then I asked them to tell me
what their boundaries are,because she said the company is
a building, you know, but Irepresent the company and I'm
going to try to get as much outof you as I can, and you have to
(06:00):
let me know what yourboundaries are or I'll keep
thinking, you know, I won't knowthat there are boundaries.
And so I think it was such abeautiful way to kind of
articulate the fact that youknow not only do you have to
respect your own boundaries, butyou have to respect other
people, and they will bedifferent from yours.
It won't be that you happen tomatch up your extra sky
schedules or pickup schedule.
You'll have to accommodate it,but you also want yours
accommodated, and so I thinkit's such an important way to
(06:22):
think about setting boundariesand building culture around it.
I think it's so important, butit's complicated, it's not
simple, but I think you know itis important, especially for
women, to be able to havebalance, and I do think you're.
You are absolutely right.
I don't know if we're talkingabout mental health more in the
workplace or if there's justgreater you know, greater
(06:44):
awareness, or if there's greaterissues, but I am hearing this
conversation, like everywhere,about you know people's mental
health, suffering from their,the impact directly of work, you
know, and feeling like theydon't even know what to do do
because they're seeing peopledeteriorate mental health-wise
but they don't have the skillsor the knowledge about how to
(07:04):
handle it at the workplace.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Yeah, and I love what you said about that reciprocal
feedback right and gettingsharing your boundaries and
asking that of others.
And I am new in a role.
I just accepted a position as aCEO with a company just a
couple weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Congratulations.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
I'm so excited, thank you.
I say this because I wanteverybody to know you can teach
an old dog new tricks.
Right, we can change the way welead and model an example,
because, as you said, that I'mworking right now to get to know
my team members what works forthem, what doesn't, but I never
thought about asking them whatare your boundaries?
And so that is going to be apiece that I insert into my kind
(07:45):
of get to know you side ofthings, because I do want to
know.
I expect 150% right Now.
Is that possible all the time?
No, it's not.
I'm not going to be able togive 150% all the time, but when
I share what my boundaries areand then I actually ask for what
theirs are, we're exhibiting topeople that their boundaries
(08:05):
are important as well, and if wedon't know them how can we
respect them?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Absolutely, and that we're also saying you don't have
to get to a point where youneed to set boundaries in order
to tell me what they are.
You can tell me them up front.
And I think what she also said,which I thought was really
helpful, is because nobody'sbeen asked this question, a lot
of them just looked at her andkind of was like I don't know
what to do with this, and shelet them kind of go away and
think about their boundaries andthen come back and tell her
(08:29):
also that these were kind ofmovable targets, like if they
changed, to let her know, youknow.
So I do think like it's such acontinuing ongoing conversation,
but I think such an importantone to have healthier
environments where there ispsychological safety and people
can protect their mentalwell-being and can have more
than just a work life and have apersonal life, and so I'm all
(08:49):
for teaching old dogs and oldsystems new tricks.
So I love the idea that wecould go around and do something
different.
That would be better forourselves and better for others.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah, and I would encourage you know those who are
seasoned leaders, who are, whohave their routine shake it up a
little bit, throw, throw insome things that shake it up a
little bit and and stretch yourown self, stretch the way in
which you lead and and thinkoutside of that normal box that
sometimes gets comfortable.
Think about what'suncomfortable again, like in the
best possible way, but I thinkthat would surprise sometimes
(09:25):
the people around you is whenyou're willing to look at
something maybe with a littlebit of a different lens.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Absolutely and I think you know, thinking about
like that particular like lensthat you want to open up, it can
be really helpful, and I do, Ido really believe, like it.
You know, I remember asupervisor once telling me this
in my training but he was likenever stop learning and never
stop being uncomfortable, thatyou don't know, and I thought it
was such a good point becausehe's like it doesn't have to be
(09:50):
therapy or psychology, it couldbe like learning a new skill.
But he's like there's such adiscomfort with learning a new
skill.
You always have to be in thatdiscomfort because when, as a
therapist, you're asking someoneto make changes, you have to
understand how hard that is andwhat kind of effort they're
putting into making changesbecause you're trying something
new.
I think the same is true forleaders.
If you're asking them to dosomething for you or learn or
(10:13):
stretch, you should also belearning, stretching and
understanding emotionally whatthat feels like.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Yeah, well, there's a it's interesting because I
heard this for years and I neverfully understood it working
more in a kind of a teamcapacity and maybe mid and even
senior level management.
But when you get to thatC-suite or that boardroom
there's a unique kind ofloneliness that can come with
being one of the few women there.
What insights have you gainedabout building genuine
connections and those supportsystems at that level,
especially when vulnerabilityfeels risky?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, it's so true.
I mean, I think you know, asthe women that I work with get
more senior, they do getlonelier, and I do think I'm
often encouraging them, if theycan't find support within the
system, to find otheropportunities to meet with
senior leaders.
You know, women there's allkinds of organizations that are
trying to talk to women leadersbut to find these organizations
(11:07):
so that they connect with otherpeople at the same level, so
that they don't feel alone.
Because I do also think evenwhen there are a couple of women
in the organization that areleaders, they're often turned
against each other in a lot ofways and they can.
I would hope that they can forma connection amongst each other
.
But if you can't because of theway the system is set up, find
(11:28):
it outside and try not to insome ways propagate women coming
after women at that seniorlevel and really try to build
with them, because I do think weare greater and stronger in
numbers when we are doing thistogether.
They want to separate us for areason.
It becomes harder for us tohave power.
We don't have blocks, they'vegot blocks.
You know, men have blocks.
We don't have power.
(11:49):
We need blocks of power too.
Even if we don't love somebody100%, they can still be helpful
and an ally in a lot of ways,and so I do think it's really
important to find community andto not be alone.
It is so important to be ableto rise up the ladder because
men are doing it, they'resharing information about how
they got where they got and theinsider tips and the
relationships, and women arejust working hard oftentimes and
(12:12):
you have to be doing the otherpieces too of building
relationships looking at yournext thing, figuring out angling
, being strategic with your owncareer and I do think
relationships, I think, play themost important part of that.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah, and I think that also requires getting
uncomfortable right, and if youwant to make a connection with
another executive woman, whetherit's in your sphere or not, be
willing to ask.
And sometimes it's going to bethe uncomfortable no, like, no,
I don't want to connect, no, Ican't mentor you, no, you know
whatever, like I, just I'm superbusy right now.
There's going to be the no.
There's also going to be theyes, because there are a lot of
women out there Surprisingly Ithink some people don't
(12:51):
recognize this there's a lot ofwomen out there who are like how
can I show up for you andsupport you?
And sometimes we're in this safebox again, not wanting to take
a risk because I don't want tolook like I don't know what I'm
doing.
Well, no, we all need support.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yeah, yeah, and I think you know, oftentimes what
I see is less of the no the nohappens really rarely but just
more of the ignoring, and peopletake the ignoring as painful as
the no sometimes.
But I think you also have torecognize sometimes there's
other things going on for thatperson why they can't support
you.
They're too busy, they'reoverwhelmed, they're maybe
(13:28):
changing jobs, careers.
So I think just try to think ofthe most positive thing you can
about them if they don'trespond, and keep trying,
because there will be people whosay yes and people who want,
who believe in the mission ofsupporting other women leaders
and know how difficult it is andhow rare it is, and so I do
think it's don't do it alone.
I think it does something to aperson to be doing it alone.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, you've observed that as women reach senior
positions, their definition ofsuccess often undergoes a
profound evolution.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
How do you guide leaders in rewriting their
narrative of achievement,especially when they're blazing
trails for the next generationor for yeah, I mean I think you
know I'm very much reallyinterested before, the legacy
and in what they want forthemselves, and so I'm really
thinking about, like, especiallywith imposter syndrome.
So imposter syndrome has a verynarrow definition of success,
(14:18):
you know, and it's been groomedin you over the years.
So your parents had some idea,like your teachers had some idea
.
Eventually some bosses had someidea, and what happens when you
have imposter syndrome often isthat you don't have an idea of
what success means.
It means whatever someone wouldbe proud of you for doing,
whatever they're recommendingyou for, and I think one of the
things becomes super importantis taking control of your own
(14:39):
career and your own idea of whatsuccess means.
Success may have nothing to dowith money or title.
It may have something to dowith something else, and that is
the thing you should aim towardthen, and then I think you will
create a legacy for the peoplewho are like you and who have
not had the opportunity yet toredefine the success for
themselves.
And so I do think it's reallyabout finding, really having a
(14:59):
deep dive.
Look at what does it mean foryou.
It may not have anything to dowith career.
It might, it actually mighthave something specific to do
with career, but I think it'sreally important to figure out
what is.
My own definitions separatefrom the people I've looked to
for validation before, and itmight be very different from
what even they want.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
As women kind of progress into their careers.
The most powerful womenexecutives often speak of
moments that they had to unlearneverything that they like those
preconceived notions that youhad about leadership.
What do you think you havewitnessed as a transformative
shift in working with women whoare senior and executive leaders
, in them going through theprocess of kind of unpacking and
(15:38):
unlearning some of those thingsthat they had built so strongly
in their minds?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I mean, I think it really when they were kind of
doing the unpacking and thinkingabout, sort of like, how they
want to lead.
That's different from how theywere taught to lead.
I think oftentimes theyrecognize the ways in which
those other ways while they seemuniversal, they seem like the
only way to do things were alsonegatively impactful on their
own lives and careers and thepeople around them.
And so I think what Iexperienced from my leaders is
(16:03):
that you know they're lookingfor a better, gentler, kinder
way to run an organization wherepeople are not having to like
become damaged as a result oftheir experience at the
organization.
It's not always easy, becausesometimes the organization
itself is toxic and you're justtrying to keep your team, you
know not, not toxic.
(16:24):
And but I think it's soimportant to them I think
oftentimes to to try thingsdifferently, to build
relationships differently, andsometimes that comes with a lot
of doubts from other, from otherleaders, like what are you
doing over there?
You know, like it's all liketouchy feely over there.
Why do you care?
What's happening with yourdirect report?
And so I do think that like itdoes often receive a lot of
(16:46):
criticism, especially frompeople holding these traditional
stances, but I don't thinkyou're aiming toward getting
approval from them.
You're aiming towards figuringout, like, whatever your goal is
, whether it's create a cohesiveteam, whether it's to kind of
make sure that you have a teamthat you know values, the work,
values being there with you, butyou know so it depends on what
your goals are.
But I don't often think thatthe women that I work with want
(17:09):
to replicate a model that oftendidn't.
They may have survived it, butit wasn't meant for them and
they didn't necessarilyholistically benefit from it.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Yeah, that's an important word, though they were
surviving in that space.
But is that the environment inwhich you want to create for
others right, and shedding someof those limiting beliefs or
those limitations that we put onourselves again, so that the
environment thrives not just us,not just our team, but that?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
we're really promoting that.
Yeah, exactly, and there's someplace for people to see
something different that works.
You know Right.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Well, you have something coming up in February,
something really exciting.
You've got your next book, yourChild's Greatness.
Tell us a little bit about itand what was the intent of
writing it.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah, so imposter syndrome begins in childhood.
It begins with the expectationsand the kind of ideas around
success and failure that we'reraised with, and so to target
this early so that people don'tdevelop it, we always thought
about developing a book onparenting and things that we
want to kind of push and supportand things that we may want to
(18:17):
change and alter, and so thisbook was really about.
That is, about sort of thingsthat you need to consider around
your child's development,around issues of perfectionism
and issues of performance,anxiety and all of these
different themes that relatespecifically to imposter
syndrome and how to approachthem in a bit of a different
manner so they don't developthese experiences.
(18:37):
And I think we always had thisthought that when we go out and
do talks at organizations toleaders, oftentimes they would
often ask about their kids.
It was really interesting and Iwould be like that is so
interesting, like their kidisn't even here, like, but they
would think about their kids andthen they would ask like how do
I prevent this?
Or I see this developing in mychild, how can I, you know, work
on stopping it?
(18:57):
Because also it can betransgenerational.
So if you struggle withimposter syndrome, in essence,
you're modeling that for yourchildren and that also can
affect the way that they see howyou interact with the world of
work.
And so, you know, I think it'sa it sort of feels like a
natural progression, because thefirst book is about overcoming
a posture individually, thesecond book was about managers,
(19:19):
leaders, culture, and this bookis about sort of our children,
and so I feel like this is sortof like.
You know, for me it's like thefull rounded work that I wanted
to do on it.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I love that and I look forward to it.
I will definitely be grabbing acopy.
I encourage everyone else to aswell.
It's going to be out February11th.
But as we think about it, youknow, we often we've been
talking even about the modelingthat we do in the office or the
modeling we do with our team.
But, dang, we got to step backa little bit and remember we're
only there for eight, whateverhours a day, but we're home the
(19:50):
rest of the time.
And so what are we modeling athome?
And being willing to confrontthose things and have the
self-awareness in service ofyou're, seeking to get better
right, let's make sure that wekind of shed some of that
imposter syndrome and theunintended consequences that
come with it, for the sake ofour children and what kind of
leaders and people they're goingto grow up to be.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
They're going to be.
Yeah, and talking about likelegacy earlier, that is also
part of your legacy of childrenis like the way that they end up
entering the world.
So I do think it's suchimportant piece of the work.
It's for me it's like a wholereset to you.
It's like you know, let's getit nipped in the bud early so
that we don't have to deal withit as leaders later on.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yeah Well, my last question is one that I always
love to ask people and get theirinsights.
And so if it were your last dayon earth and you have thought
about all the experiences andwisdom that you have acquired
over your lifetime, what is theone piece of advice that you
would impart before you go?
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Good question.
I would say be brave and thinkbig.
It's something I didn't reallydo early on and I did not.
You know, I was brave, but notin service of thinking big, just
surviving.
But I think I would.
I would dream big for myself.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Love it.
Well, lisa, I would love foryou to share.
I'll put all this in the shownotes, but where can people find
you?
Follow you get copies of all ofyour books.
Find out more about theservices that you provide.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah, so my books are available in all major
booksellers Amazon, Barnes,Noble you know local independent
places too.
I'm also on Instagram at DrOrbe Austin, where I post I've
been a little shaky over thesummer because of book reserves
being written and I'm also onLinkedIn.
I'm a LinkedIn top voice, soyou can find me talking about
(21:34):
things there.
My company is called DynamicTransition Psychological
Consultancy, the website of allthe services that we tend to
offer.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Excellent, excellent.
Well, as I said, I'll put allof that in the show notes.
Thank you for coming on.
Thank you for using your wisdomand experience and story and
lessons you've acquired to beable to share with others in
their pursuit of greatness.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Thank you so much for listening and for being here on
this journey with me.
I hope you'll stick around Ifyou liked this episode.
It would mean the world for meif you would rate and review the
podcast or share it withsomeone you know may need to
hear this message.
I love to hear from you all andwant you to know that you can
leave me a voicemail directly.
If you go to my website,evokegreatnesscom, and go to the
contact me tab, you'll just hitthe big old orange button and
(22:22):
record your message.
I love the feedback andcomments that I've been getting,
so please keep them coming.
I'll leave you with the wisewords of author Robin Sharma
Greatness comes by doing a fewsmall and smart things each and
every day.
It comes from taking littlesteps consistently.
It comes from making a fewsmall chips against everything
(22:45):
in your professional andpersonal life that is ordinary,
so that a day eventually arriveswhen all that's left is the
extraordinary.
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