July 29, 2025 • 25 mins
🎧 Episode 174: How to Build Executive Presence, Resilience, and Real Influence with Whitney Faires (Part 2)
In Part 2 of this high-impact conversation, executive coach and leadership expert Whitney Faires returns to unpack the deeper barriers holding leaders back—and how to break through them with clarity, confidence, and courage.
We dive into the real cost of unchecked ambition, how to coach even the most resistant high performers, and what it takes to develop executive presence in a noisy, distracted world.
If you’ve ever struggled to slow down, stay present, or shift from proving to truly leading—this episode will hit home.
We explore:
- How to redefine executive presence in the age of Zoom, distraction, and burnout
- Why imposter syndrome is more common at the top than you think
- The keys to coaching high performers who are stuck in ego, resistance, or exhaustion
- How ambition can sabotage your impact if left unchecked
- Why mid-level leaders are the most overlooked (and most important) tier in every company
- One daily gut-check Whitney uses to help leaders align with their values
- The most powerful advice Whitney would give if it were her last day on earth
🔑 Key takeaways:
- Executive presence starts with internal clarity—not external polish
- Resistance isn’t a personality trait, it’s often unprocessed fear
- Ambition without awareness can hurt your leadership brand
- You don’t need a title to lead, but you do need intention
đź’ˇ Quotes to remember:
“If you’re not feeling imposter syndrome, you’re probably not pushing yourself hard enough.”
 “Sometimes the greatest things we do are the ones only we believe we can do.”
“Development doesn’t have to be expensive—it just has to be intentional.”
“We’re not here to drift toward greatness. We have to choose it.”
đź“š Resources mentioned:
✨ Learn more about Whitney’s work and coaching:
 www.whitneyfaires.com
📲 Connect with Whitney:
Instagram – @whitney_faires
LinkedIn – Whitney Faires
A rising tide raises all ships, and I invite you along on this journey to Evoke Greatness!
Check out my website: www.evokegreatness.com
Follow me on:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sonnie-linebarger-899b9a52/
https://www.instagram.com/evoke.greatness/
https://www.tiktok.com/@evoke.greatness
http://www.youtube.com/@evokegreatness
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
How many times were you on paper not ready?
How many times did you feellike I don't know if I can be
successful in this and draw uponthose as a source of proof that
you can do it?
I think it's so importantbecause a lot of times, once we
have this big success, we think,oh my gosh, we did this and you
remember it as this great,perfect time when you're
(00:22):
standing on the stage winningthe award.
The majority of the experiencewasn't like that.
It was hard, there weresetbacks.
You question yourself, thingsdidn't work as you planned them,
and so we have to remember thatjourney.
And that journey is what tellsus that we were here once before
and we overcame it.
Even if we didn't get thedesired result, we did something
(00:44):
great and we can do that again.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Welcome to Evoke Greatness, the podcast for bold
leaders and big dreamers whorefuse to settle.
I'm your host, sunny.
I started in scrubs over 20years ago doing the gritty,
unseen work and climbed my wayto CEO.
Every rung of that laddertaught me something worth
passing on Lessons in leadership, resilience and what it really
(01:12):
takes to rise.
You'll hear raw conversations,unfiltered truths and the kind
of wisdom that ignites somethingdeeper in you your courage,
your conviction, your calling.
This show will help you thinkbigger, lead better and show up
bolder in every part of yourlife.
This is your place to grow.
Let's rise together.
(01:44):
Welcome back to part two of howto Build Executive Presence,
resilience and Real Influencewith my guest, whitney Ferris.
In part two of my conversation,we dive deeper into what really
holds leaders back and how tocoach through resistance, ego
burnout and the fear of notbeing enough.
We also unpack how to coach theuncoachable, what fearless
(02:07):
communication actually requires,why your self-worth can't be
tied to your job title and adaily gut check that every
leader should be askingthemselves.
This is a no-fluff conversationfor leaders who want to grow,
with integrity, clarity andintention.
And if you missed part one,episode 173, go back to last
week and check it out.
(02:27):
We talked about identity shifts,the power of resilience,
whitney's excellence equationframework and the mindset tool
she uses to break throughnegative thought spirals.
Together, these two episodesare a masterclass in courageous
leadership.
Okay, let's hop into part two.
You also help leaders develop asense of executive presence,
(02:48):
and I'm curious what that lookslike in an age of constant
distractions and social mediaand virtual meetings, and what
does that look like in creatingthat with all of those things
coming at us on a day-to-daybasis?
Speaker 1 (03:05):
creating that, with all of those things coming at us
on a day-to-day basis.
Yeah, Well, you know, executivepresence is often seen for all
the things on the surface, kindof like I talked about with
development, which is whatyou're saying, how you say it,
how you come in the room, youknow how you show up, what
you're wearing and what you looklike and does it match your
audience, and all those thingsare a component, and so I wanna
say yes, that it's that.
(03:25):
And when I look at executivepresence, I wanna know a couple
things.
First is what specifically arewe trying to solve for?
Because I think executivepresence is one of these topics
that, at least in my experienceas a coach, at all levels people
get the feedback from theirleader.
You need to really elevate yourexecutive presence to be ready
(03:48):
for that next job or to be moreeffective in that meeting.
But what does that mean?
Remember, I just said that itcould be what you say, how
you're saying it, how you'reshowing up in a meeting.
So what is it then?
What is that executive presencething?
And so you have to define whatthe problem is.
So that's number one.
The double click on that iswhat's the driver of it and I'll
(04:13):
give you a great example.
I have clients that whenthey're trying to get to you
know, VP or a C level, they'regetting feedback that you're
defensive when you get pushbackor objections, or your body
language changes or you justcome off as a totally different
person than we know you whenyou're doing the presentation,
(04:35):
and a lot of times that's drivenby confidence, self-doubt, some
insecurity.
So we can give them all thestrategies to prepare better and
how do you have more intentionin your voice and kind of
control the pace of how you'respeaking?
But if you don't solve thatproblem, you'll never really get
(04:57):
sustainable change in executivepresence.
And so to me, we want to showup as approachable, yet in
command, and someone thatinspires others to listen and
take action.
That's executive presence, andto do that you have to know
what's in your way and solve forthat facing that discomfort of
(05:29):
imposter syndrome, feeling likeall my thoughts are coming into
play.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Can I do this?
Do I really have the skill setto do this?
How can you help them navigatethe discomfort?
Because I don't think it'sabout avoiding the discomfort.
I think it's about almost howdo they go through that barrier
of discomfort.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Well, the first piece of advice I would give is
everybody has it, literallyeverybody.
And it's so interesting to me,whether I'm coaching a COO or
I'm coaching a director in anorganization, there's always
(06:10):
this initial hesitation to admitthat I don't think I'm at this
level or I don't know if I havethe skills of this person.
But they all experience it,it's just in what way are they
experiencing it?
And so I like to normalize it,because I think people they
isolate themselves and theydon't want to talk about it
because it's going to make themlook weak or they're going to be
judged.
And you have to know we allexperience this.
If you're not experiencingimposter syndrome, you're likely
(06:33):
not pushing yourself far enough, you're playing it way too safe
.
And the second thing I would sayis look back at all of the
things that you haveaccomplished or strived to
accomplish in your life and yourcareer.
How many times were you, onpaper, not ready?
How many times did you feellike I don't know if I can be
(06:55):
successful in this and draw uponthose as a source of proof that
you can do it?
And I think it's so importantbecause a lot of times, once we
have like this big success, wethink, oh my gosh, we did this
and it's just like you rememberit as this great, perfect time
when you're standing on thestage winning the award.
(07:16):
The majority of the experiencewasn't like that.
It was hard.
There were setbacks, youquestion yourself.
Things didn't work as youplanned them, and so we have to
remember that journey as youplan them, and so we have to
remember that journey.
And that journey is what tellsus that we were here once before
and we overcame it.
Even if we didn't get thedesired result, we did something
(07:38):
great, and we can do that again, and this time is probably not
much different.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
When people seek out executive coaching and it's
usually the desire either A thatthey want growth, or B they're
in a situation where they'rebeing told they need to grow.
That is what I found kind ofare the two avenues, and so one
embraces.
How can they lean into?
What can they learn?
What can they unlearn, unlearn?
(08:13):
What do you do when a clientcomes to you who's resistant,
who's burnt out, who's stuck inego, like how do you, how do you
help those?
Speaker 1 (08:15):
folks break through.
Yeah, so the hardest client isone that isn't ready for change.
I would say readiness is,without a doubt, in my opinion,
the number one factor forsuccess.
And so a lot of times whenpeople come to me which more of
my clients come to me with atleast curiosity of what can
(08:35):
happen.
If they do this, you know,maybe not eagerness, maybe they,
like you said, they wereprompted.
Hey, you got to really work onsome things if you want to get
to where you want to be.
But those that come stuckresistant, it's.
Honestly.
I ask them a lot of differentquestions about.
You know what drove you to takethe meeting with me.
(08:57):
You know your boss encouragedwhat drove you to take the
meeting.
What do you, you know, tell mewhat you think makes you as
successful as you are, as youare Now?
What are the areas where, ifyou elevated those, you could
continue to grow?
And you know, a lot of timesyou get like the soft, like high
(09:18):
level answer first and then.
But if I can get one or two ofthose answers, I can usually dig
into that and talk about what'sthe potential of doing that
work and what's the impact toyour team or the organization or
to you, to you as an individual, and how you feel doing your
job right, and that usuallystarts to slowly open the door
With clients who are resistant.
I actually tell them I don'tknow if this is the ideal time
(09:41):
for you to do this I think youneed to think about is this
something that are you inspiredto take a hard look at yourself
and explore whether changes areneeded?
And if not, it's totally okay.
And the fact that I'm notselling them to come work with
me, that I'm actually doing theopposite and kind of saying, hey
, you should go, think hard andcome back and let me know,
(10:02):
because if you're in this placewhere you're so skeptical and
you don't see opportunity, thenlet's not waste time and money.
Right, that usually drops theguard and people come back and
they go.
Well, there's maybe one or twothings I think would be good,
and I will tell you a lot oftimes.
Those people are so much fun towork with because once they
realize the value of having thisconfidential sounding board, it
(10:26):
opens the door to them sharingthe things that they haven't
shared, and that becomes thewalls of that ego, and that's
what makes the work reallyfulfilling is you get to leave
them in a better spot, andusually it's in a way that you
know.
The people around them who havehired you or suggested that
they work with me are reallyseeing the value too.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Where do you see ambition backfiring most often
when it comes to leaders youcoach, because ambition is great
, right, but there's times whenit can have an unintended
implication.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Absolutely.
You know, ambition as astrength can clearly become a
weakness, and here's one of thethings I see most is people are
always gunning for the next joband there's two risks in that,
which is I was in a hyper growthcompany.
It wasn't unusual to getpromoted every 18 to 24 months.
(11:35):
I was young, hungry and I wasalways like six months in about
my job Well, what's next?
I wanna be this next and Iwanna prepare for that job.
And I got a blink from some ofthe leadership that I just
wanted to be promoted.
And that was tough because, youknow, it wasn't about the title
(11:56):
, it was more that I felt likethe next job had more impact,
that I would make Sure, like itwould be great to make more
money or to do somethingdifferent, but it just my
intention was misconstrued andit was honestly my fault.
Right, because I was always sohungry and impatient and so
(12:16):
obviously, one of the things isit can affect your brand.
But the other thing that I thinkpeople overlook so often is it
takes a solid three to fouryears before you're a subject
matter expert in whatever you'redoing.
Now do you need to be a subjectmatter expert in every job?
No, you don't.
But there are some that if youwanna keep climbing, you really
(12:37):
need a deep level of knowledge,and so you almost shortchange
your ability to develop and bemore effective by moving too
fast up the ladder.
And so all of that to say isenjoy the journey, and it's one
of the things.
(12:57):
It's not a regret for me, butwhen I look back at my career, I
think to myself gosh, like Ijust didn't spend enough time
being present in that job, likesoaking in all the things,
because we're all competitiveand there's these external
pressures where every day we geton LinkedIn and someone's like
I got promoted, like I went tocollege with that person.
How's that person doing that?
Like we think that, and so itcreates this all sense of
urgency.
When it's like just do yourjourney, just learn everything
(13:21):
that you can learn, have theimpact, and when you do all
those things, you're gonna getthe next job.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
That's right for you.
I, too, did the exact samething, and then it became this
thing, as you mentioned earlier.
It's like the repetition.
You then create a story in yourmind like and then it becomes
this thing that plays out overand over, and it was as soon as
I landed that next job.
It wasn't like let me lean inand fully learn and grow.
It was like all right, what'snext?
And so that takes so much awayfrom number one, what you're
(13:52):
putting into, but the impactthat you can have in it and I
found personally that was itbackfired on me as well.
So I love that you shared that.
And to the presence is soimportant and where we can have
if our biggest desire.
I guess it's getting clear onwhat your biggest desire is
right, because if it's justgrowth and it's climbing the
ladder, like, that's one thing,I guess.
(14:12):
Be clear on that.
But if it's impact in a certainway, then get clear on that,
because I think we can't.
You're never going to drift toyour destination and it'd be the
right destination.
And so being really intentionalabout what you hope to
accomplish, what do you hope toachieve?
What kind of impact do you wantto have along the way will help
(14:34):
you kind of be a little bitmore grounded in each role,
because it's not a bad thing tocontinue being promoted and grow
, but it is if you're not havingthe intended impact that you're
hoping, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
And the other thing is, when you're so ambitious
that you're only looking kind ofone track, you might miss an
opportunity that is going to getyou to where you want to be 10
years down the road faster.
And you know, I know it's a lotfor especially younger
professionals to say like, whatdo I want?
Where do I want to be in fiveto 10 years?
That can be really hard todefine.
(15:03):
That can be really hard todefine.
But you know, when I spokeabout my career crisis and where
I, instead of moving up, I kindof took a different role, that
was what I did.
I took a very different roleand my thought process was I'm
gonna build a whole nother setof skills that I think is gonna
be really valuable, which was acorporate-based role on the
operations side, the commercialoperations side of the business.
(15:25):
And I thought if I wanna be ahigh-level leader in an
organization, I can't justunderstand the sales side, I
have to understand the corporateside and how we make decisions
and how the numbers workinternally.
And but that move was so hardfor me because it was so
different and because I wentover instead of up, and but it
turned out to be one of thegreatest decisions I made in my
(15:47):
entire career because it set meup to really align with the work
that I wanted to do long-term.
So you have to be looking notjust up but across, and
sometimes the best move we canmake is a little different or
unpopular even from what'sexpected.
And the other thing I was gonnasay a watch out around.
Ambition is sometimes if you'reone of the younger people, kind
(16:10):
of in your space, or you myfirst, not my first job, but my
second one there was like twofemales out of 50 people my job,
(16:32):
you know, not the next one, butthe next one after that there
were only three of us in a groupof 60.
And I was always, always theyoungest in those jobs.
And so you know you have tofight to really push and have
your voice and to be consideredfor roles.
And then you have to realizewhen that is not, is not
(16:53):
productive for you anymore.
So there's this self awarenesspiece of going gosh like I had
to fight to get that opportunity.
But now I'm at the place whereI need to take a different
approach to being seen andconsidered.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
I need to take a different approach to being seen
and considered and you workclosely with mid-level managers.
Why do you believe this tier isso critical and so often
overlooked when it comes toleadership development?
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Well, there is often an assumption for
high-performing individualcontributors that we'll just put
them in the next role andthey'll figure it out.
They'll learn how to do it.
And people will say well, theyhave a good leader first of all.
So their leader is teachingthem how to lead Not usually.
Or they'll say I mean they'vealways.
(17:38):
We put them in really difficultprojects and situations and
they figure it out.
And some of those people willthey will but are they going to
figure it out as quickly as ifyou train them how to do the job
correctly?
They're going to figure it outa lot faster if you give them
some support along the way.
And so when I started doingleadership development at
(17:59):
Intuitive, it was really tosolve that problem that we had
grown so much and we had a lotof frontline leaders that had
never been taught how to lead.
And you know, companies havegreat intent.
They're like we're putting ourmoney into developing people, we
have great leaders.
It's all gonna take care ofitself until you start seeing
metrics in your business, likeyou know high levels of
attrition, poor engagementscores, projects not, you know,
(18:24):
being completed on time,collaboration issues and team
dynamics that are detrimental tosuccess and people.
When you start seeing thosethings, you're like, hmm, what's
happening?
Well, all of a sudden, werealized we have all these
people that are leading, peoplewho have never been trained to
do that job.
And it's so critical becausethe people, if they are high
(18:44):
performers and promotable, theywanna be great.
I trust they are highperformers and promotable.
They want to be great.
I trust they want to be greatand we have to help them be
great.
And when they're figuring out ontheir own.
It is not a fun process.
You know when you have to lookat somebody and give them hard
feedback because they droppedthe ball and missed a deadline
and didn't show up well in ameeting and you don't know how
to do that, so it's not personal.
And so it's not personal and soit's direct and so it's
(19:06):
actionable.
That is tough and they don'tgive it well, or whether it's a
tone or it's ambiguous, or theysoften it so they don't hurt
someone's feelings.
And guess what?
The same mistake happens again,and it's only over time and
experience they learn.
You know a couple years laterhow to do their job well, and so
(19:27):
part of going into companiesand helping them train their
people leaders is about solvingthat problem.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
What I also find is it's the baptism by fire, you
know, that has so much beencoined through just throwing
somebody in the mix.
And oftentimes people getpromoted to this mid-level
management because there wasmaybe an unexpected opening and
it's like, well, this is myhighest performer, they did
really good to this point,they'll be fine.
And then we don't train them,we don't give them the tools and
(19:55):
training and resourcesnecessary to be successful, and
then we're surprised when theyhandle situations like you just
shared, because we didn't walk,we didn't actually lead them
into that role.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
And so I love that you shine a light on that,
because I think that is adownfall, a pit that a lot of
companies step into is promotingsomeone.
There's an unexpected opening.
We're going to stretch them andput them in the role.
Nothing wrong with that, and itdoesn't mean that the second
that happens you have to hire me.
I mean sure, you're welcome tohire me, but there are other
ways.
You know you have somebody thatgets put in a role early.
(20:44):
You can build a support systemaround them, someone that is a
mentor with a structured planfor how they're going to mentor
them, a short set of skill setsthat you know they're going to
need, and someone's responsiblefor doing some extra one-on-ones
and teaching them how to dothat.
There's other stuff you can dobeyond just coaching and in
large-scale development programs.
The key is just to do something, to be able to assess, like,
(21:06):
what does this person need,what's gonna make them
successful and how do we give itto them in the best way that we
can with the resources that wehave.
But development it doesn't haveto be.
I think people will lookinternally first and say, well,
what does HR or talentdevelopment have?
Some companies don't have bigHR and talent development
departments.
They're smaller or evenmedium-sized companies.
(21:27):
They don't have a whole talentdevelopment team that can build
all this stuff and I think a lotof the well-known like the
bigger brands out there you paya lot of money for, and so one
of the reasons why I do this isbecause I'm so passionate about
it.
I can give customers affordableoptions.
I can be flexible on how tomeet the needs that they have,
whether it's two people or 200,within most of most of time,
(21:51):
whatever budget they're workingwith.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
And what's?
What's one gut check that youlike, a gut check question that
you would encourage all leadersto ask themselves regularly to
stay aligned and to stayimpactful?
Speaker 1 (22:09):
stay aligned and to stay impactful.
Yeah, the question that I askedmyself at the end of each day
is what today left me feelinggood, what went well that I feel
really positive about and whathas left me with that feeling?
Because I feel like we can getso busy, we don't actually look
at the success we have.
You know, like an outcome of ameeting wasn't exactly what we
(22:31):
wanted, but it was still a goodoutcome, and so it's easy to
just hop into the next meetingand be like I didn't get done
what I wanted to get done.
That wasn't successful, butreally there's a lot to learn in
the outcome that you had.
So I think the positive isimportant, but I think you want
to take five minutes to reflecton the things that are that are
stuck like give you that gut,that gut feeling of of there's
(22:51):
just something off about that,because that is where we get to
kind of hit, rewind and replaywhat happened in that scenario,
what we're thinking.
You can check that in ournarrative.
You know sometimes we'rebeating ourselves up and we're
like it actually was really good.
This is just us, you know, kindof having some self-doubt and
other times we realize, you know, I didn't.
(23:14):
I didn't show up like I wantedto, and why was that?
You know what did I do, and andhow am I going to do it
differently.
And so five minutes ofreflection those two questions
can be really powerful in beingon that continued climb of
growth and development.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Well, as we wrap up, there's a question that I always
love to ask at the end, andthat is of all you've learned in
your lifetime thus far, and itwere your last day on Earth.
You've taken everything you'velearned and you could
disseminate one piece of adviceor guidance to the world.
What would it be?
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Oh, that's tough.
The way you phrase that istough, I will say.
I go back to something that Iencourage people to do, which is
bet on yourself in big ways,and remember that the only
person that needs to believe inyou is you, and sometimes the
greatest things that we do, weare the only people that think
(24:14):
we can do it or have this pullto go do it and trust that,
because that's how amazingthings are accomplished and
there's so much in that for theworld and for you individually.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Beautiful piece of advice.
Beautiful piece of advice.
Well, whitney, thank you somuch for joining today.
I'm going to have all this inthe show notes, but would love
to share.
Where can people find you ifthey want executive coaching?
They want to know more aboutthe frameworks that you shared.
Where can they find you?
Speaker 1 (24:34):
and follow you.
Of course, easiest place is onmy website.
You can read more about allthat I do at WhitneyFerriscom or
on Instagram.
It's at Whitney, underscoreFerris and see what's happening.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Excellent.
Well, thank you so much forsharing all of your wisdom and
guidance and so much of what youdo in your day-to-day work to
be able to serve the leadersaround the country.
So appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Of course.
Thanks so much, Sunny.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
If today's episode challenged you, moved you or lit
a fire in your soul, don't keepit to yourself.
Share it with somebody who'sready to rise.
Could I ask you to take 30seconds to leave a review?
It's the best way to say thankyou and help this show reach
more bold leaders like you,Because this isn't just a
podcast, it's a movement.
We're not here to play small.
(25:25):
We're here to lead loud, onebold and unapologetic step at a
time.
Until next time, stay bold,stay grounded and make moves
that make mediocre uncomfortable.
How many times were you on paper not ready?
How many times did you feellike I don't know if I can be
successful in this and draw uponthose as a source of proof that
you can do it?
I think it's so importantbecause a lot of times, once we
have this big success, we think,oh my gosh, we did this and you
remember it as this great,perfect time when you're
(00:22):
standing on the stage winningthe award.
The majority of the experiencewasn't like that.
It was hard, there weresetbacks.
You question yourself, thingsdidn't work as you planned them,
and so we have to remember thatjourney.
And that journey is what tellsus that we were here once before
and we overcame it.
Even if we didn't get thedesired result, we did something
(00:44):
great and we can do that again.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Welcome to Evoke Greatness, the podcast for bold
leaders and big dreamers whorefuse to settle.
I'm your host, sunny.
I started in scrubs over 20years ago doing the gritty,
unseen work and climbed my wayto CEO.
Every rung of that laddertaught me something worth
passing on Lessons in leadership, resilience and what it really
(01:12):
takes to rise.
You'll hear raw conversations,unfiltered truths and the kind
of wisdom that ignites somethingdeeper in you your courage,
your conviction, your calling.
This show will help you thinkbigger, lead better and show up
bolder in every part of yourlife.
This is your place to grow.
Let's rise together.
(01:44):
Welcome back to part two of howto Build Executive Presence,
resilience and Real Influencewith my guest, whitney Ferris.
In part two of my conversation,we dive deeper into what really
holds leaders back and how tocoach through resistance, ego
burnout and the fear of notbeing enough.
We also unpack how to coach theuncoachable, what fearless
(02:07):
communication actually requires,why your self-worth can't be
tied to your job title and adaily gut check that every
leader should be askingthemselves.
This is a no-fluff conversationfor leaders who want to grow,
with integrity, clarity andintention.
And if you missed part one,episode 173, go back to last
week and check it out.
(02:27):
We talked about identity shifts,the power of resilience,
whitney's excellence equationframework and the mindset tool
she uses to break throughnegative thought spirals.
Together, these two episodesare a masterclass in courageous
leadership.
Okay, let's hop into part two.
You also help leaders develop asense of executive presence,
(02:48):
and I'm curious what that lookslike in an age of constant
distractions and social mediaand virtual meetings, and what
does that look like in creatingthat with all of those things
coming at us on a day-to-daybasis?
Speaker 1 (03:05):
creating that, with all of those things coming at us
on a day-to-day basis.
Yeah, Well, you know, executivepresence is often seen for all
the things on the surface, kindof like I talked about with
development, which is whatyou're saying, how you say it,
how you come in the room, youknow how you show up, what
you're wearing and what you looklike and does it match your
audience, and all those thingsare a component, and so I wanna
say yes, that it's that.
(03:25):
And when I look at executivepresence, I wanna know a couple
things.
First is what specifically arewe trying to solve for?
Because I think executivepresence is one of these topics
that, at least in my experienceas a coach, at all levels people
get the feedback from theirleader.
You need to really elevate yourexecutive presence to be ready
(03:48):
for that next job or to be moreeffective in that meeting.
But what does that mean?
Remember, I just said that itcould be what you say, how
you're saying it, how you'reshowing up in a meeting.
So what is it then?
What is that executive presencething?
And so you have to define whatthe problem is.
So that's number one.
The double click on that iswhat's the driver of it and I'll
(04:13):
give you a great example.
I have clients that whenthey're trying to get to you
know, VP or a C level, they'regetting feedback that you're
defensive when you get pushbackor objections, or your body
language changes or you justcome off as a totally different
person than we know you whenyou're doing the presentation,
(04:35):
and a lot of times that's drivenby confidence, self-doubt, some
insecurity.
So we can give them all thestrategies to prepare better and
how do you have more intentionin your voice and kind of
control the pace of how you'respeaking?
But if you don't solve thatproblem, you'll never really get
(04:57):
sustainable change in executivepresence.
And so to me, we want to showup as approachable, yet in
command, and someone thatinspires others to listen and
take action.
That's executive presence, andto do that you have to know
what's in your way and solve forthat facing that discomfort of
(05:29):
imposter syndrome, feeling likeall my thoughts are coming into
play.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Can I do this?
Do I really have the skill setto do this?
How can you help them navigatethe discomfort?
Because I don't think it'sabout avoiding the discomfort.
I think it's about almost howdo they go through that barrier
of discomfort.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Well, the first piece of advice I would give is
everybody has it, literallyeverybody.
And it's so interesting to me,whether I'm coaching a COO or
I'm coaching a director in anorganization, there's always
(06:10):
this initial hesitation to admitthat I don't think I'm at this
level or I don't know if I havethe skills of this person.
But they all experience it,it's just in what way are they
experiencing it?
And so I like to normalize it,because I think people they
isolate themselves and theydon't want to talk about it
because it's going to make themlook weak or they're going to be
judged.
And you have to know we allexperience this.
If you're not experiencingimposter syndrome, you're likely
(06:33):
not pushing yourself far enough, you're playing it way too safe
.
And the second thing I would sayis look back at all of the
things that you haveaccomplished or strived to
accomplish in your life and yourcareer.
How many times were you, onpaper, not ready?
How many times did you feellike I don't know if I can be
(06:55):
successful in this and draw uponthose as a source of proof that
you can do it?
And I think it's so importantbecause a lot of times, once we
have like this big success, wethink, oh my gosh, we did this
and it's just like you rememberit as this great, perfect time
when you're standing on thestage winning the award.
(07:16):
The majority of the experiencewasn't like that.
It was hard.
There were setbacks, youquestion yourself.
Things didn't work as youplanned them, and so we have to
remember that journey as youplan them, and so we have to
remember that journey.
And that journey is what tellsus that we were here once before
and we overcame it.
Even if we didn't get thedesired result, we did something
(07:38):
great, and we can do that again, and this time is probably not
much different.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
When people seek out executive coaching and it's
usually the desire either A thatthey want growth, or B they're
in a situation where they'rebeing told they need to grow.
That is what I found kind ofare the two avenues, and so one
embraces.
How can they lean into?
What can they learn?
What can they unlearn, unlearn?
(08:13):
What do you do when a clientcomes to you who's resistant,
who's burnt out, who's stuck inego, like how do you, how do you
help those?
Speaker 1 (08:15):
folks break through.
Yeah, so the hardest client isone that isn't ready for change.
I would say readiness is,without a doubt, in my opinion,
the number one factor forsuccess.
And so a lot of times whenpeople come to me which more of
my clients come to me with atleast curiosity of what can
(08:35):
happen.
If they do this, you know,maybe not eagerness, maybe they,
like you said, they wereprompted.
Hey, you got to really work onsome things if you want to get
to where you want to be.
But those that come stuckresistant, it's.
Honestly.
I ask them a lot of differentquestions about.
You know what drove you to takethe meeting with me.
(08:57):
You know your boss encouragedwhat drove you to take the
meeting.
What do you, you know, tell mewhat you think makes you as
successful as you are, as youare Now?
What are the areas where, ifyou elevated those, you could
continue to grow?
And you know, a lot of timesyou get like the soft, like high
(09:18):
level answer first and then.
But if I can get one or two ofthose answers, I can usually dig
into that and talk about what'sthe potential of doing that
work and what's the impact toyour team or the organization or
to you, to you as an individual, and how you feel doing your
job right, and that usuallystarts to slowly open the door
With clients who are resistant.
I actually tell them I don'tknow if this is the ideal time
(09:41):
for you to do this I think youneed to think about is this
something that are you inspiredto take a hard look at yourself
and explore whether changes areneeded?
And if not, it's totally okay.
And the fact that I'm notselling them to come work with
me, that I'm actually doing theopposite and kind of saying, hey
, you should go, think hard andcome back and let me know,
(10:02):
because if you're in this placewhere you're so skeptical and
you don't see opportunity, thenlet's not waste time and money.
Right, that usually drops theguard and people come back and
they go.
Well, there's maybe one or twothings I think would be good,
and I will tell you a lot oftimes.
Those people are so much fun towork with because once they
realize the value of having thisconfidential sounding board, it
(10:26):
opens the door to them sharingthe things that they haven't
shared, and that becomes thewalls of that ego, and that's
what makes the work reallyfulfilling is you get to leave
them in a better spot, andusually it's in a way that you
know.
The people around them who havehired you or suggested that
they work with me are reallyseeing the value too.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Where do you see ambition backfiring most often
when it comes to leaders youcoach, because ambition is great
, right, but there's times whenit can have an unintended
implication.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Absolutely.
You know, ambition as astrength can clearly become a
weakness, and here's one of thethings I see most is people are
always gunning for the next joband there's two risks in that,
which is I was in a hyper growthcompany.
It wasn't unusual to getpromoted every 18 to 24 months.
(11:35):
I was young, hungry and I wasalways like six months in about
my job Well, what's next?
I wanna be this next and Iwanna prepare for that job.
And I got a blink from some ofthe leadership that I just
wanted to be promoted.
And that was tough because, youknow, it wasn't about the title
(11:56):
, it was more that I felt likethe next job had more impact,
that I would make Sure, like itwould be great to make more
money or to do somethingdifferent, but it just my
intention was misconstrued andit was honestly my fault.
Right, because I was always sohungry and impatient and so
(12:16):
obviously, one of the things isit can affect your brand.
But the other thing that I thinkpeople overlook so often is it
takes a solid three to fouryears before you're a subject
matter expert in whatever you'redoing.
Now do you need to be a subjectmatter expert in every job?
No, you don't.
But there are some that if youwanna keep climbing, you really
(12:37):
need a deep level of knowledge,and so you almost shortchange
your ability to develop and bemore effective by moving too
fast up the ladder.
And so all of that to say isenjoy the journey, and it's one
of the things.
(12:57):
It's not a regret for me, butwhen I look back at my career, I
think to myself gosh, like Ijust didn't spend enough time
being present in that job, likesoaking in all the things,
because we're all competitiveand there's these external
pressures where every day we geton LinkedIn and someone's like
I got promoted, like I went tocollege with that person.
How's that person doing that?
Like we think that, and so itcreates this all sense of
urgency.
When it's like just do yourjourney, just learn everything
(13:21):
that you can learn, have theimpact, and when you do all
those things, you're gonna getthe next job.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
That's right for you.
I, too, did the exact samething, and then it became this
thing, as you mentioned earlier.
It's like the repetition.
You then create a story in yourmind like and then it becomes
this thing that plays out overand over, and it was as soon as
I landed that next job.
It wasn't like let me lean inand fully learn and grow.
It was like all right, what'snext?
And so that takes so much awayfrom number one, what you're
(13:52):
putting into, but the impactthat you can have in it and I
found personally that was itbackfired on me as well.
So I love that you shared that.
And to the presence is soimportant and where we can have
if our biggest desire.
I guess it's getting clear onwhat your biggest desire is
right, because if it's justgrowth and it's climbing the
ladder, like, that's one thing,I guess.
(14:12):
Be clear on that.
But if it's impact in a certainway, then get clear on that,
because I think we can't.
You're never going to drift toyour destination and it'd be the
right destination.
And so being really intentionalabout what you hope to
accomplish, what do you hope toachieve?
What kind of impact do you wantto have along the way will help
(14:34):
you kind of be a little bitmore grounded in each role,
because it's not a bad thing tocontinue being promoted and grow
, but it is if you're not havingthe intended impact that you're
hoping, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
And the other thing is, when you're so ambitious
that you're only looking kind ofone track, you might miss an
opportunity that is going to getyou to where you want to be 10
years down the road faster.
And you know, I know it's a lotfor especially younger
professionals to say like, whatdo I want?
Where do I want to be in fiveto 10 years?
That can be really hard todefine.
(15:03):
That can be really hard todefine.
But you know, when I spokeabout my career crisis and where
I, instead of moving up, I kindof took a different role, that
was what I did.
I took a very different roleand my thought process was I'm
gonna build a whole nother setof skills that I think is gonna
be really valuable, which was acorporate-based role on the
operations side, the commercialoperations side of the business.
(15:25):
And I thought if I wanna be ahigh-level leader in an
organization, I can't justunderstand the sales side, I
have to understand the corporateside and how we make decisions
and how the numbers workinternally.
And but that move was so hardfor me because it was so
different and because I wentover instead of up, and but it
turned out to be one of thegreatest decisions I made in my
(15:47):
entire career because it set meup to really align with the work
that I wanted to do long-term.
So you have to be looking notjust up but across, and
sometimes the best move we canmake is a little different or
unpopular even from what'sexpected.
And the other thing I was gonnasay a watch out around.
Ambition is sometimes if you'reone of the younger people, kind
(16:10):
of in your space, or you myfirst, not my first job, but my
second one there was like twofemales out of 50 people my job,
(16:32):
you know, not the next one, butthe next one after that there
were only three of us in a groupof 60.
And I was always, always theyoungest in those jobs.
And so you know you have tofight to really push and have
your voice and to be consideredfor roles.
And then you have to realizewhen that is not, is not
(16:53):
productive for you anymore.
So there's this self awarenesspiece of going gosh like I had
to fight to get that opportunity.
But now I'm at the place whereI need to take a different
approach to being seen andconsidered.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
I need to take a different approach to being seen
and considered and you workclosely with mid-level managers.
Why do you believe this tier isso critical and so often
overlooked when it comes toleadership development?
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Well, there is often an assumption for
high-performing individualcontributors that we'll just put
them in the next role andthey'll figure it out.
They'll learn how to do it.
And people will say well, theyhave a good leader first of all.
So their leader is teachingthem how to lead Not usually.
Or they'll say I mean they'vealways.
(17:38):
We put them in really difficultprojects and situations and
they figure it out.
And some of those people willthey will but are they going to
figure it out as quickly as ifyou train them how to do the job
correctly?
They're going to figure it outa lot faster if you give them
some support along the way.
And so when I started doingleadership development at
(17:59):
Intuitive, it was really tosolve that problem that we had
grown so much and we had a lotof frontline leaders that had
never been taught how to lead.
And you know, companies havegreat intent.
They're like we're putting ourmoney into developing people, we
have great leaders.
It's all gonna take care ofitself until you start seeing
metrics in your business, likeyou know high levels of
attrition, poor engagementscores, projects not, you know,
(18:24):
being completed on time,collaboration issues and team
dynamics that are detrimental tosuccess and people.
When you start seeing thosethings, you're like, hmm, what's
happening?
Well, all of a sudden, werealized we have all these
people that are leading, peoplewho have never been trained to
do that job.
And it's so critical becausethe people, if they are high
(18:44):
performers and promotable, theywanna be great.
I trust they are highperformers and promotable.
They want to be great.
I trust they want to be greatand we have to help them be
great.
And when they're figuring out ontheir own.
It is not a fun process.
You know when you have to lookat somebody and give them hard
feedback because they droppedthe ball and missed a deadline
and didn't show up well in ameeting and you don't know how
to do that, so it's not personal.
And so it's not personal and soit's direct and so it's
(19:06):
actionable.
That is tough and they don'tgive it well, or whether it's a
tone or it's ambiguous, or theysoften it so they don't hurt
someone's feelings.
And guess what?
The same mistake happens again,and it's only over time and
experience they learn.
You know a couple years laterhow to do their job well, and so
(19:27):
part of going into companiesand helping them train their
people leaders is about solvingthat problem.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
What I also find is it's the baptism by fire, you
know, that has so much beencoined through just throwing
somebody in the mix.
And oftentimes people getpromoted to this mid-level
management because there wasmaybe an unexpected opening and
it's like, well, this is myhighest performer, they did
really good to this point,they'll be fine.
And then we don't train them,we don't give them the tools and
(19:55):
training and resourcesnecessary to be successful, and
then we're surprised when theyhandle situations like you just
shared, because we didn't walk,we didn't actually lead them
into that role.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
And so I love that you shine a light on that,
because I think that is adownfall, a pit that a lot of
companies step into is promotingsomeone.
There's an unexpected opening.
We're going to stretch them andput them in the role.
Nothing wrong with that, and itdoesn't mean that the second
that happens you have to hire me.
I mean sure, you're welcome tohire me, but there are other
ways.
You know you have somebody thatgets put in a role early.
(20:44):
You can build a support systemaround them, someone that is a
mentor with a structured planfor how they're going to mentor
them, a short set of skill setsthat you know they're going to
need, and someone's responsiblefor doing some extra one-on-ones
and teaching them how to dothat.
There's other stuff you can dobeyond just coaching and in
large-scale development programs.
The key is just to do something, to be able to assess, like,
(21:06):
what does this person need,what's gonna make them
successful and how do we give itto them in the best way that we
can with the resources that wehave.
But development it doesn't haveto be.
I think people will lookinternally first and say, well,
what does HR or talentdevelopment have?
Some companies don't have bigHR and talent development
departments.
They're smaller or evenmedium-sized companies.
(21:27):
They don't have a whole talentdevelopment team that can build
all this stuff and I think a lotof the well-known like the
bigger brands out there you paya lot of money for, and so one
of the reasons why I do this isbecause I'm so passionate about
it.
I can give customers affordableoptions.
I can be flexible on how tomeet the needs that they have,
whether it's two people or 200,within most of most of time,
(21:51):
whatever budget they're workingwith.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
And what's?
What's one gut check that youlike, a gut check question that
you would encourage all leadersto ask themselves regularly to
stay aligned and to stayimpactful?
Speaker 1 (22:09):
stay aligned and to stay impactful.
Yeah, the question that I askedmyself at the end of each day
is what today left me feelinggood, what went well that I feel
really positive about and whathas left me with that feeling?
Because I feel like we can getso busy, we don't actually look
at the success we have.
You know, like an outcome of ameeting wasn't exactly what we
(22:31):
wanted, but it was still a goodoutcome, and so it's easy to
just hop into the next meetingand be like I didn't get done
what I wanted to get done.
That wasn't successful, butreally there's a lot to learn in
the outcome that you had.
So I think the positive isimportant, but I think you want
to take five minutes to reflecton the things that are that are
stuck like give you that gut,that gut feeling of of there's
(22:51):
just something off about that,because that is where we get to
kind of hit, rewind and replaywhat happened in that scenario,
what we're thinking.
You can check that in ournarrative.
You know sometimes we'rebeating ourselves up and we're
like it actually was really good.
This is just us, you know, kindof having some self-doubt and
other times we realize, you know, I didn't.
(23:14):
I didn't show up like I wantedto, and why was that?
You know what did I do, and andhow am I going to do it
differently.
And so five minutes ofreflection those two questions
can be really powerful in beingon that continued climb of
growth and development.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Well, as we wrap up, there's a question that I always
love to ask at the end, andthat is of all you've learned in
your lifetime thus far, and itwere your last day on Earth.
You've taken everything you'velearned and you could
disseminate one piece of adviceor guidance to the world.
What would it be?
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Oh, that's tough.
The way you phrase that istough, I will say.
I go back to something that Iencourage people to do, which is
bet on yourself in big ways,and remember that the only
person that needs to believe inyou is you, and sometimes the
greatest things that we do, weare the only people that think
(24:14):
we can do it or have this pullto go do it and trust that,
because that's how amazingthings are accomplished and
there's so much in that for theworld and for you individually.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Beautiful piece of advice.
Beautiful piece of advice.
Well, whitney, thank you somuch for joining today.
I'm going to have all this inthe show notes, but would love
to share.
Where can people find you ifthey want executive coaching?
They want to know more aboutthe frameworks that you shared.
Where can they find you?
Speaker 1 (24:34):
and follow you.
Of course, easiest place is onmy website.
You can read more about allthat I do at WhitneyFerriscom or
on Instagram.
It's at Whitney, underscoreFerris and see what's happening.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Excellent.
Well, thank you so much forsharing all of your wisdom and
guidance and so much of what youdo in your day-to-day work to
be able to serve the leadersaround the country.
So appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Of course.
Thanks so much, Sunny.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
If today's episode challenged you, moved you or lit
a fire in your soul, don't keepit to yourself.
Share it with somebody who'sready to rise.
Could I ask you to take 30seconds to leave a review?
It's the best way to say thankyou and help this show reach
more bold leaders like you,Because this isn't just a
podcast, it's a movement.
We're not here to play small.
(25:25):
We're here to lead loud, onebold and unapologetic step at a
time.
Until next time, stay bold,stay grounded and make moves
that make mediocre uncomfortable.
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