August 12, 2025 • 20 mins
🎧 Episode 176: How to Rise, Lead & Heal After Workplace Toxicity with Kaitlyn Rios (Part 1)
In Part 1 of this powerful conversation, Faced With Grace founder Kaitlyn Rios shares her deeply personal journey from surviving a toxic work environment to building a mission-driven organization that empowers women to rise above adversity with confidence, poise, and purpose.
We dive into the signs of workplace toxicity, how to recognize them early, and the first small but impactful steps you can take to protect your mental and emotional well-being. Kaitlyn also reveals why purpose is the core value that anchors her mission and the tools she uses to help women transform pain into power.
If you’ve ever questioned your worth because of a toxic workplace—or wondered how to turn hardship into meaningful change—this episode will resonate deeply.
We explore:
- The moment that sparked Kaitlyn’s mission to create Faced With Grace
- How past workplace trauma can unknowingly follow you into new roles
- Practical ways to spot toxicity before it escalates
- The role of mentorship and coaching in navigating and healing from adversity
- How to prevent support spaces from becoming complaint sessions
- The five core values that guide Faced With Grace
- Small, actionable steps to lead positively—no matter your title
🔑 Key takeaways:
- Toxicity has many faces—learning to spot it early is key to self-preservation
- Purpose can transform even the lowest moments into a catalyst for change
- Mentorship provides validation, perspective, and a roadmap forward
- Leadership isn’t about titles, it’s about the example you set daily
đź’ˇ Quotes to remember:
- “You are not alone. You have a support system here built in.”
- “Purpose is the anchor that keeps me moving forward, even when it’s hard.”
- “We can’t always erase trauma—but we can use it to create something better.”
đź“š Resources mentioned:
 ✨ Learn more about Faced With Grace: www.facedwithgrace.org
📲 Connect with Kaitlyn:
 LinkedIn – Kaitlyn Rios
A rising tide raises all ships, and I invite you along on this journey to Evoke Greatness!
Check out my website: www.evokegreatness.com
Follow me on:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sonnie-linebarger-899b9a52/
https://www.instagram.com/evoke.greatness/
https://www.tiktok.com/@evoke.greatness
http://www.youtube.com/@evokegreatness
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I was working in an organization that dealt me a
rather toxic hand.
While there was wonderfulhumans that I met and worked
with along the way while I wasthere, the situation got very
complex and my world turned verydark.
During that time, there wasthis morning where I was driving
to work, and at this point ithad gotten pretty bad and I was
(00:21):
stuck right in the middle of itall as a mid-level manager,
trying to make everyone happyand failing miserably because it
was impossible.
I was driving into work.
I hit this moment on theoverpass where I just felt like
driving off the edge of the roadwould be a better solution than
arriving at work.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome to Evoke Greatness, the podcast for bold
leaders and big dreamers whorefuse to settle.
I'm your host, sunny.
I started in scrubs over 20years ago doing the gritty,
unseen work and climbed my wayto CEO.
Every rung of that laddertaught me something worth
passing on lessons in leadership, resilience and what it really
(01:03):
takes to rise.
On Lessons in leadership,resilience and what it really
takes to rise, you'll hear rawconversations, unfiltered truths
and the kind of wisdom thatignites something deeper in you
your courage, your conviction,your calling.
This show will help you thinkbigger, lead better and show up
(01:24):
bolder in every part of yourlife.
This is your place to grow.
Let's rise together.
She almost didn't make it towork that morning, on the verge
of giving up, caitlin looked inher rearview mirror and what she
saw changed everything.
That moment became theheartbeat of Faced with Grace, a
(01:47):
movement empowering women torise above toxic workplaces with
confidence, poise and purpose.
In part one of this two-partconversation, caitlin opens up
about the moment that changedher life how to recognize
workplace toxicity early and whypurpose is the value that keeps
her going.
Let's hop into it.
(02:09):
Welcome back to another episodeof Evoke Greatness.
My guest today is a woman on amission to turn adversity into
empowerment and create lastingchange in the workplace.
Caitlin Rios is the founder ofFaced with Grace, a charitable
organization that supports andequips women who are navigating
toxic work environments.
Through mentorship, coachingand leadership development,
caitlin and her team arecreating a ripple effect,
(02:31):
empowering women to rise aboveadversity with confidence, poise
and purpose.
Faced with Grace is not justabout overcoming toxicity.
It's about rewriting thenarrative, reclaiming your power
and building a future ofinclusive, healthy and
supportive workplaces forgenerations to come.
In this episode, you'll hearCaitlin share the heart behind
the mission, the structure ofthe organization and how you can
(02:53):
connect, support or besupported by the Faced with
Grace community.
Caitlin, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Thank you so much for having me Such a pleasure to be
here.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I'm so glad to have you.
Well, I love to just kind ofdive in and get a little bit
more of the backstory on folks,and so I'm curious what inspired
you to create, faced with Grace, and how did the story shape
your mission?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Man.
So let me back up a few years,I guess, and give you my
background.
I am a physical therapist bytrade and I've been in the
healthcare field for over 10years now.
Unfortunately, quite early inmy career I was working in an
organization that you know dealtme a rather toxic hand.
While there was wonderfulhumans that I met and worked
(03:36):
with along the way while I wasthere, you know, the situation
got very complex and my worldturned very dark during that
time.
Complex and my world turnedvery dark during that time.
But the organization is calledFaced with Grace because there
was this morning where I wasdriving to work and at this
point I had gotten pretty bad.
We were an organization wherethere was sort of three
different business entities allworking together to form a
(03:59):
single clinic and I was stuckright in the middle of it all as
a mid-level manager, trying tomake everyone happy and failing
miserably because it wasimpossible.
And so in this morning when Iwas driving into work you know,
I don't know what was sodifferent about that morning,
necessarily, but I hit thismoment on the overpass where I
just felt like driving off theedge of the road would be a
(04:19):
better solution than arriving atwork and I, like I said, called
the organization Face withGrace because kind of in the
midst of that moment I looked upin my rearview mirror and saw
my infant baby girl sitting inmy back seat and it was like
Jesus was sitting back there andthere was just this like moment
(04:40):
of clarity and calmness andreassurance that there was
absolutely no reason to let goof that wheel and I needed to
keep going.
At the time I had no idea why,because it really didn't make a
lot of sense to me, but Ilistened and leaned into that
and eventually I got myself to apsychologically safer place to
work, thank goodness.
(05:00):
I thank God every day for thatstepping stone role that got me
out of that place and over theyears because this has been gosh
at least six, seven years nowthat that all happened I
transitioned through severaldifferent organizations and
unfortunately, just kept seeingthe same signs and at that point
I was like, okay, I am workinghard, I'm trying my best.
(05:21):
You know, this can't just be me.
And so, as I kind ofrecollected on things and just
did some soul searching andself-awareness, self-discovery
and growth and therapy, like allthe things right, I took all of
those experiences.
I look back and I just decidedthat something in me had shifted
.
I didn't want to just look backon this time and think, oh wow,
(05:44):
that was a really low point, Iwanted to do something with it.
I didn't want to just look backon this time and think, oh wow,
that was a really low point, Iwanted to do something with it.
I mean, I wanted womenespecially to feel like they
didn't have to go through thosesituations at all.
But if they did have to gothrough them, I didn't want them
to go through it alone.
And so, faced with, grace wasborn.
I began creating content for itlast October and really that
came out of a place of kind offrustration and angst and I just
(06:07):
couldn't figure out what thisthing was that was calling me to
do it.
That I started and by FebruaryI had created a full nonprofit
organization and now we're upand rolling and building slowly
but surely.
Yeah, so it was born from aplace of very deep depression.
Yeah, so it was born from aplace of very deep depression,
anxiety, suicidal ideation andreally just a calling to change
(06:29):
the world for the better and usemy negative experiences and do
something positive with them.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
It is I wouldn't say it's the norm, but I think this
will resonate with many, manypeople and there are varying
levels of toxicity.
Right, there is kind of a minorsense of toxicity, to the point
where it's just like you feelit when you're in the office or
(06:56):
when you're around, and thenthere's that really high level
where the organization isconsumed in toxicity, and I
think that's probably whatyou're experiencing and then
that starts to consume us.
And I think there's two choicesin that moment, and those two
choices are you can, as youdecide to exit, you can take it
(07:16):
with you, because there is sometrauma involved with that, and
you can unknowingly it's tuckedin your backpack, in your bag
somewhere, and you bring it intothe next place.
And not that you're bringingthe toxicity, but you're
bringing the trauma from thetoxicity, from that really bad
work environment.
(07:36):
Or you can choose to say, okay,I know how I felt in this, I
don't ever want to experiencesomething like this again.
Or I want to be the person, thething fighting against this
type of environment, and so Ican take my lessons and pour
them into what I can do toprevent this type of thing, and
I think that's exactly whatyou've done, but there are some
(07:58):
people who unknowingly it'stucked in their bag with them
and they carry it to the nextplace and the next place
unknowingly it's tucked in theirbag with them and they carry it
to the next place from the nextplace and I mean, I think to
your point that trauma willnever fully leave me right, like
that's always going to be sortof woven into my DNA at this
point, just because you can'tforget those things that made
you feel that low.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Now I have at least a better perspective on them and
can approach them differently,tackle them differently,
whatever you want to say.
But I think that the fact thatI went through those experiences
and I have them with me alwaysthat returns, sometimes even in
the healthiest of workplacesthat I've been in.
You know, I still fear theemail that I send that, you know
(08:40):
, is it going to ruinorganizational dynamics if I hit
send.
Or, you know, is my managergoing to have something to say
about it?
You know, all those littlemicroaggressions that are from
my past and have not even shownup in my future necessarily are
still there, and that's no faultof the new organization.
It's just what I've broughtwith me the baggage.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
I think some people get in the place where they
start to get desensitized,because it's just, that's the
water that we swim in every day,and maybe I like my job or I
like my team, and so you startto like desensitize yourself
from that.
So what does toxicity oftenlook like, and how can women
learn to begin to like recognizeit early on, versus it being
(09:22):
something all of a sudden you go?
Wait a second, how did I gethere?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Right, yeah, that's a great call out.
I think that, for I always statethat for every person in every
organization, there's going tobe nuances, right, there's
differences.
It's going to show up in manydifferent forms.
For me personally, it was a lotof microaggressions.
It was a lot of the things thatwhen you say it out loud to
someone, it sounds ridiculousand petty, but, over time, as
(09:47):
you've got many different smallinstances, you know, maybe there
was an email sent that had anundertone to it, or something
mentioned in a meeting that wasdirected at you that your whole
group of peers heard, or maybeit was a lack of communication
that happened right and thatjust, or maybe it was a lack of
communication that happened andthat just left you out of a
critical conversation.
(10:08):
Sometimes, though, it's morethan that.
Sometimes it's the highturnover and the burnout and the
public shaming, right, likeit's very obvious and flagrant.
And, you know, I think it justreally depends on the
organization you're dealing withand the people that you're
dealing with and how they infusethat toxicity into the
organization.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
You have with, faced with Grace.
It's rooted in five core values, and that's positivity, people
power, peace and purpose.
And I'm curious which of thesepersonally anchors you the most
and why?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Man, they all matter so much.
You know, I think that for me,it's probably purpose this
organization was born out of,like I said, a calling and a
sense of purpose around changingthe way people think about this
.
Like you said, people get verynumb to it and we just accept it
as okay because that's the wayit's always been, or this is the
(10:59):
way this organization is, orthis is the way that person is.
Don't worry about it.
For me, this purpose and thiscalling is really centered
around the fact that we need tocall out the elephant in the
room more often and we need tospeak up and we need to advocate
on behalf of ourselves and ourpeers and change the way that we
(11:20):
think about workplaces.
My husband, he, thinks I'm crazy.
Probably he's like you know, Ijust don't know if you're ever
going to be truly happy in a job, and I'm like you know what.
Maybe I won't, but I do believethat each time I've changed
roles or changed organizations,I have found something new in
that organization that I've cometo appreciate, or something
(11:40):
that I've learned that I don'twant in my next role.
And so I think that it's thatbelief and that purpose of
knowing that something better isout there and we have to fight
for it and we have to be thatguiding light that changes
things and breeds healthiercultures and just breeds a
healthier workplace for tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
How do you think mentorship and coaching uniquely
help women grow and heal andlead after going through
something, some type ofadversity, like you've
experienced?
Speaker 1 (12:11):
You know, I like to think that it creates a support
system that otherwise wouldn'tbe there and we as women are
again so conditioned to just,you know, tough it out and do it
on our own and just trudgethrough the mess and get through
it and be that strong womanlyfigure, sometimes the maternal
type of thing.
(12:31):
But I think that whenever wehave someone to come alongside
us and mentor us and guide usthrough those hard times, or
after those hard times to yourpoint, it creates a sense of
security that we wouldn'totherwise have.
It gives us an outlet.
You know, it's almost liketherapy, for the working world
is kind of the way, I think, ofmotivational mentorship.
(12:53):
It's like you need to have thatsafe place to go and turn to, to
be able to talk to someone andsay this is what's happening in
my organization Am I crazy?
So we give that validation of,like you know, let's analyze the
situation, let's look at itsubjectively or, excuse me
objectively and not sosubjectively, and let's remove
some of the fluff from it.
(13:13):
So it just helps to kind ofclear the landscape when you're
evaluating the situations andgives women a sense of I don't
know calm in the storm in a way.
I think that when we're goingthrough these situations, it's
often some of the most stressfultimes.
It's often some of the hardesttimes to pull yourself out of
that and think I need help,right.
(13:34):
So I encourage women who are inthe midst of that storm to
reach out, like that is the timeHopefully you don't ever get
there but if you are there, likedon't do it alone, there's
people out there that will help.
Face with Grace is just one ofmany organizations willing to do
that.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
But it's so important , so important to look for that
support.
How do you balance the piece ofpeople not being happy and how
do you prevent it from being acomplaint session right versus
actually processing through andhelping it be productive to
navigate through that?
Speaker 1 (14:08):
That's a great question and that is one of the
things I pride ourselves on atFaced with Grace is that we do a
really good job of analyzingthe situation.
So I've got several differenttools that we've created.
One of those is like aworkplace health assessment.
So again, we can kind of removethat subjectivity and the
emotion out of it.
We don't ignore the emotion.
(14:28):
I think this is a reallyimportant piece of it.
But after we talk through that,then we look at the facts.
Right, let's clear out thenoise, a framework called open
eyes, open minds, open hearts,and that kind of helps break
things down into just bite-sizedchunks that are realistic and
fact-based versus all thefeelings that come along with
those situations.
(14:49):
And in doing that it justcreates a very clean roadmap to
look at a situation, decide whatwe want to do with it and then
take steps and take action stepsfrom there.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
And you talk about transforming pain into power.
What are some of the mostimpactful transformations you've
witnessed through Faced withGrace?
Speaker 1 (15:15):
simplest, but yet the biggest and just the most
impactful one that I've seentime and time again is that when
women show up to Face WithGrace, either in our roundtable
sessions or in personal sessions, over the phone or whatever it
may be everyone says the samething, no matter what industry
you're in, no matter what yourjob is or your role or title
it's.
I thought I was crazy and now Iknow I'm not, I'm not alone,
(15:36):
and I thought I was.
And to me, like it just hitshome every time I hear that
because it's like yes, first ofall like yes because it feels
like I'm accomplishing what Iset out to do, is like you are
not alone.
You have a support system herebuilt in, but just the
validation that people need tothen trigger change.
Right?
I think sometimes, especiallyas women, like we just need that
(15:58):
external validation to say youare enough.
This is not a you issue, thisis a systemic issue.
You know, whatever situationmay be, we can validate that for
you and help you take steps toa positive, healthier tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Curious as you think about.
Sometimes people feel like thisis a mountain, right, and it's
not easy to conquer a mountain.
What are maybe a couple of,like, smaller steps, actionable
things that someone can do?
Maybe they're even just babysteps around trying to not feel
like it's such an overwhelmingthing to conquer, rather like
okay, I'm going to take a littlebite of this today.
(16:34):
In what ways can they do thatto create more of a positive
impact in their situation?
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, that's a great question.
You know, I think thatsometimes it starts with finding
a trusted confidant in yourworkplace, right Like finding a
friend who's going through itwith you and again can offer
some of that validation.
But to create that level ofsupport within your organization
, that's kind of baby stepnumber one.
Not to say that you're creatingthis like us versus them.
(17:02):
I never want to come acrossthat way of Facebook grace, but
there is something to be saidfor a trusted confidant, and
when I say trusted, you've gotto make sure that person truly
is a trusted human.
Secondly, you know, I think thatit's starting with yourself.
It's getting very self-aware ofA.
Am I contributing to thistoxicity at all?
(17:23):
Because even when I've been insituations where I've looked at
an organization and been able toremove myself from that and
look back on those times, it'slike that toxicity affected me
as well and I know I was part ofthe problem at times.
It's like that toxicityaffected me as well and I know I
was part of the problem attimes and I know I could have
done better.
I think as humans, that's a hardthing to admit.
So we have to first look withinand figure out okay, how can I
(17:46):
make sure that I'm no longercontributing to this and feeding
into it and making it worse foranyone?
And then, in turn, what can Ido to spin things more
positively and create what wecall like a luminous leader and
be that guiding light for others, so that you can be a new
source of positivity for peopleand a new source of healthy
(18:07):
leadership for people, even ifyou are, you know, like, for
instance, in a hospital as aphysical therapist, if I'm just
a staffie, I can still do that.
I don't have to have some fancyleadership title to lead other
people to show them a goodexample.
So I think those are just acouple of steps that you can
take today that really can makea big difference.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
And I think we mirror so much of this right and we
may not be the only one feelinglike this.
And so, in that kind ofconnection within the company
and having somebody trusted tobe able to talk to, we're almost
like giving permission to thosearound us to be able to say,
like let's take, I'm going totake this small step toward
(18:52):
creating a better environment,or towards figuring out and
navigating the environment, andI think that gives permission,
that mirrors it to other people,to really, you know, it's like
being that taking that bravefirst step.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
And it's also you can also create sort of like an
accountability partner in thatas well, right?
Hey, I know that this is thedynamic in this organization.
I'm not a fan of it, You're nota fan of it.
Let's hold each otheraccountable to being that
guiding light for other peopleand not letting it perfuse into
us and us turn around andperfuse that back out into the
(19:25):
system.
So I think it's really valuableto use that trusted person like
that.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Okay, that's where we hit the pause button.
Next week, in part two, caitlingets real about the hidden toll
of workplace toxicity on mentalhealth, why asking for help is
the bravest step, and her boldvision for equipping young women
to spot red flags before theystart their careers.
She'll leave you with one pieceof advice that could change the
(19:52):
way you advocate for yourselfforever.
You're not going to want tomiss it.
Hope to see you back next week.
If today's episode challengedyou, moved you or lit a fire in
your soul, don't keep it toyourself.
Share it with somebody who'sready to rise.
Could I ask you to take 30seconds to leave a review?
It's the best way to say thankyou and help this show reach
(20:15):
more bold leaders like you,because this isn't just a review
.
It's the best way to say thankyou and help this show reach
more bold leaders like you,because this isn't just a
podcast, it's a movement.
We're not here to play small.
We're here to lead loud, onebold and unapologetic step at a
time.
Until next time, stay bold,stay grounded and make moves
that make mediocre uncomfortable.
I was working in an organization that dealt me a
rather toxic hand.
While there was wonderfulhumans that I met and worked
with along the way while I wasthere, the situation got very
complex and my world turned verydark.
During that time, there wasthis morning where I was driving
to work, and at this point ithad gotten pretty bad and I was
(00:21):
stuck right in the middle of itall as a mid-level manager,
trying to make everyone happyand failing miserably because it
was impossible.
I was driving into work.
I hit this moment on theoverpass where I just felt like
driving off the edge of the roadwould be a better solution than
arriving at work.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome to Evoke Greatness, the podcast for bold
leaders and big dreamers whorefuse to settle.
I'm your host, sunny.
I started in scrubs over 20years ago doing the gritty,
unseen work and climbed my wayto CEO.
Every rung of that laddertaught me something worth
passing on lessons in leadership, resilience and what it really
(01:03):
takes to rise.
On Lessons in leadership,resilience and what it really
takes to rise, you'll hear rawconversations, unfiltered truths
and the kind of wisdom thatignites something deeper in you
your courage, your conviction,your calling.
This show will help you thinkbigger, lead better and show up
(01:24):
bolder in every part of yourlife.
This is your place to grow.
Let's rise together.
She almost didn't make it towork that morning, on the verge
of giving up, caitlin looked inher rearview mirror and what she
saw changed everything.
That moment became theheartbeat of Faced with Grace, a
(01:47):
movement empowering women torise above toxic workplaces with
confidence, poise and purpose.
In part one of this two-partconversation, caitlin opens up
about the moment that changedher life how to recognize
workplace toxicity early and whypurpose is the value that keeps
her going.
Let's hop into it.
(02:09):
Welcome back to another episodeof Evoke Greatness.
My guest today is a woman on amission to turn adversity into
empowerment and create lastingchange in the workplace.
Caitlin Rios is the founder ofFaced with Grace, a charitable
organization that supports andequips women who are navigating
toxic work environments.
Through mentorship, coachingand leadership development,
caitlin and her team arecreating a ripple effect,
(02:31):
empowering women to rise aboveadversity with confidence, poise
and purpose.
Faced with Grace is not justabout overcoming toxicity.
It's about rewriting thenarrative, reclaiming your power
and building a future ofinclusive, healthy and
supportive workplaces forgenerations to come.
In this episode, you'll hearCaitlin share the heart behind
the mission, the structure ofthe organization and how you can
(02:53):
connect, support or besupported by the Faced with
Grace community.
Caitlin, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Thank you so much for having me Such a pleasure to be
here.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I'm so glad to have you.
Well, I love to just kind ofdive in and get a little bit
more of the backstory on folks,and so I'm curious what inspired
you to create, faced with Grace, and how did the story shape
your mission?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Man.
So let me back up a few years,I guess, and give you my
background.
I am a physical therapist bytrade and I've been in the
healthcare field for over 10years now.
Unfortunately, quite early inmy career I was working in an
organization that you know dealtme a rather toxic hand.
While there was wonderfulhumans that I met and worked
(03:36):
with along the way while I wasthere, you know, the situation
got very complex and my worldturned very dark during that
time.
Complex and my world turnedvery dark during that time.
But the organization is calledFaced with Grace because there
was this morning where I wasdriving to work and at this
point I had gotten pretty bad.
We were an organization wherethere was sort of three
different business entities allworking together to form a
(03:59):
single clinic and I was stuckright in the middle of it all as
a mid-level manager, trying tomake everyone happy and failing
miserably because it wasimpossible.
And so in this morning when Iwas driving into work you know,
I don't know what was sodifferent about that morning,
necessarily, but I hit thismoment on the overpass where I
just felt like driving off theedge of the road would be a
(04:19):
better solution than arriving atwork and I, like I said, called
the organization Face withGrace because kind of in the
midst of that moment I looked upin my rearview mirror and saw
my infant baby girl sitting inmy back seat and it was like
Jesus was sitting back there andthere was just this like moment
(04:40):
of clarity and calmness andreassurance that there was
absolutely no reason to let goof that wheel and I needed to
keep going.
At the time I had no idea why,because it really didn't make a
lot of sense to me, but Ilistened and leaned into that
and eventually I got myself to apsychologically safer place to
work, thank goodness.
(05:00):
I thank God every day for thatstepping stone role that got me
out of that place and over theyears because this has been gosh
at least six, seven years nowthat that all happened I
transitioned through severaldifferent organizations and
unfortunately, just kept seeingthe same signs and at that point
I was like, okay, I am workinghard, I'm trying my best.
(05:21):
You know, this can't just be me.
And so, as I kind ofrecollected on things and just
did some soul searching andself-awareness, self-discovery
and growth and therapy, like allthe things right, I took all of
those experiences.
I look back and I just decidedthat something in me had shifted
.
I didn't want to just look backon this time and think, oh wow,
(05:44):
that was a really low point, Iwanted to do something with it.
I didn't want to just look backon this time and think, oh wow,
that was a really low point, Iwanted to do something with it.
I mean, I wanted womenespecially to feel like they
didn't have to go through thosesituations at all.
But if they did have to gothrough them, I didn't want them
to go through it alone.
And so, faced with, grace wasborn.
I began creating content for itlast October and really that
came out of a place of kind offrustration and angst and I just
(06:07):
couldn't figure out what thisthing was that was calling me to
do it.
That I started and by FebruaryI had created a full nonprofit
organization and now we're upand rolling and building slowly
but surely.
Yeah, so it was born from aplace of very deep depression.
Yeah, so it was born from aplace of very deep depression,
anxiety, suicidal ideation andreally just a calling to change
(06:29):
the world for the better and usemy negative experiences and do
something positive with them.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
It is I wouldn't say it's the norm, but I think this
will resonate with many, manypeople and there are varying
levels of toxicity.
Right, there is kind of a minorsense of toxicity, to the point
where it's just like you feelit when you're in the office or
(06:56):
when you're around, and thenthere's that really high level
where the organization isconsumed in toxicity, and I
think that's probably whatyou're experiencing and then
that starts to consume us.
And I think there's two choicesin that moment, and those two
choices are you can, as youdecide to exit, you can take it
(07:16):
with you, because there is sometrauma involved with that, and
you can unknowingly it's tuckedin your backpack, in your bag
somewhere, and you bring it intothe next place.
And not that you're bringingthe toxicity, but you're
bringing the trauma from thetoxicity, from that really bad
work environment.
(07:36):
Or you can choose to say, okay,I know how I felt in this, I
don't ever want to experiencesomething like this again.
Or I want to be the person, thething fighting against this
type of environment, and so Ican take my lessons and pour
them into what I can do toprevent this type of thing, and
I think that's exactly whatyou've done, but there are some
(07:58):
people who unknowingly it'stucked in their bag with them
and they carry it to the nextplace and the next place
unknowingly it's tucked in theirbag with them and they carry it
to the next place from the nextplace and I mean, I think to
your point that trauma willnever fully leave me right, like
that's always going to be sortof woven into my DNA at this
point, just because you can'tforget those things that made
you feel that low.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Now I have at least a better perspective on them and
can approach them differently,tackle them differently,
whatever you want to say.
But I think that the fact thatI went through those experiences
and I have them with me alwaysthat returns, sometimes even in
the healthiest of workplacesthat I've been in.
You know, I still fear theemail that I send that, you know
(08:40):
, is it going to ruinorganizational dynamics if I hit
send.
Or, you know, is my managergoing to have something to say
about it?
You know, all those littlemicroaggressions that are from
my past and have not even shownup in my future necessarily are
still there, and that's no faultof the new organization.
It's just what I've broughtwith me the baggage.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
I think some people get in the place where they
start to get desensitized,because it's just, that's the
water that we swim in every day,and maybe I like my job or I
like my team, and so you startto like desensitize yourself
from that.
So what does toxicity oftenlook like, and how can women
learn to begin to like recognizeit early on, versus it being
(09:22):
something all of a sudden you go?
Wait a second, how did I gethere?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Right, yeah, that's a great call out.
I think that, for I always statethat for every person in every
organization, there's going tobe nuances, right, there's
differences.
It's going to show up in manydifferent forms.
For me personally, it was a lotof microaggressions.
It was a lot of the things thatwhen you say it out loud to
someone, it sounds ridiculousand petty, but, over time, as
(09:47):
you've got many different smallinstances, you know, maybe there
was an email sent that had anundertone to it, or something
mentioned in a meeting that wasdirected at you that your whole
group of peers heard, or maybeit was a lack of communication
that happened right and thatjust, or maybe it was a lack of
communication that happened andthat just left you out of a
critical conversation.
(10:08):
Sometimes, though, it's morethan that.
Sometimes it's the highturnover and the burnout and the
public shaming, right, likeit's very obvious and flagrant.
And, you know, I think it justreally depends on the
organization you're dealing withand the people that you're
dealing with and how they infusethat toxicity into the
organization.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
You have with, faced with Grace.
It's rooted in five core values, and that's positivity, people
power, peace and purpose.
And I'm curious which of thesepersonally anchors you the most
and why?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Man, they all matter so much.
You know, I think that for me,it's probably purpose this
organization was born out of,like I said, a calling and a
sense of purpose around changingthe way people think about this
.
Like you said, people get verynumb to it and we just accept it
as okay because that's the wayit's always been, or this is the
(10:59):
way this organization is, orthis is the way that person is.
Don't worry about it.
For me, this purpose and thiscalling is really centered
around the fact that we need tocall out the elephant in the
room more often and we need tospeak up and we need to advocate
on behalf of ourselves and ourpeers and change the way that we
(11:20):
think about workplaces.
My husband, he, thinks I'm crazy.
Probably he's like you know, Ijust don't know if you're ever
going to be truly happy in a job, and I'm like you know what.
Maybe I won't, but I do believethat each time I've changed
roles or changed organizations,I have found something new in
that organization that I've cometo appreciate, or something
(11:40):
that I've learned that I don'twant in my next role.
And so I think that it's thatbelief and that purpose of
knowing that something better isout there and we have to fight
for it and we have to be thatguiding light that changes
things and breeds healthiercultures and just breeds a
healthier workplace for tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
How do you think mentorship and coaching uniquely
help women grow and heal andlead after going through
something, some type ofadversity, like you've
experienced?
Speaker 1 (12:11):
You know, I like to think that it creates a support
system that otherwise wouldn'tbe there and we as women are
again so conditioned to just,you know, tough it out and do it
on our own and just trudgethrough the mess and get through
it and be that strong womanlyfigure, sometimes the maternal
type of thing.
(12:31):
But I think that whenever wehave someone to come alongside
us and mentor us and guide usthrough those hard times, or
after those hard times to yourpoint, it creates a sense of
security that we wouldn'totherwise have.
It gives us an outlet.
You know, it's almost liketherapy, for the working world
is kind of the way, I think, ofmotivational mentorship.
(12:53):
It's like you need to have thatsafe place to go and turn to, to
be able to talk to someone andsay this is what's happening in
my organization Am I crazy?
So we give that validation of,like you know, let's analyze the
situation, let's look at itsubjectively or, excuse me
objectively and not sosubjectively, and let's remove
some of the fluff from it.
(13:13):
So it just helps to kind ofclear the landscape when you're
evaluating the situations andgives women a sense of I don't
know calm in the storm in a way.
I think that when we're goingthrough these situations, it's
often some of the most stressfultimes.
It's often some of the hardesttimes to pull yourself out of
that and think I need help,right.
(13:34):
So I encourage women who are inthe midst of that storm to
reach out, like that is the timeHopefully you don't ever get
there but if you are there, likedon't do it alone, there's
people out there that will help.
Face with Grace is just one ofmany organizations willing to do
that.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
But it's so important , so important to look for that
support.
How do you balance the piece ofpeople not being happy and how
do you prevent it from being acomplaint session right versus
actually processing through andhelping it be productive to
navigate through that?
Speaker 1 (14:08):
That's a great question and that is one of the
things I pride ourselves on atFaced with Grace is that we do a
really good job of analyzingthe situation.
So I've got several differenttools that we've created.
One of those is like aworkplace health assessment.
So again, we can kind of removethat subjectivity and the
emotion out of it.
We don't ignore the emotion.
(14:28):
I think this is a reallyimportant piece of it.
But after we talk through that,then we look at the facts.
Right, let's clear out thenoise, a framework called open
eyes, open minds, open hearts,and that kind of helps break
things down into just bite-sizedchunks that are realistic and
fact-based versus all thefeelings that come along with
those situations.
(14:49):
And in doing that it justcreates a very clean roadmap to
look at a situation, decide whatwe want to do with it and then
take steps and take action stepsfrom there.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
And you talk about transforming pain into power.
What are some of the mostimpactful transformations you've
witnessed through Faced withGrace?
Speaker 1 (15:15):
simplest, but yet the biggest and just the most
impactful one that I've seentime and time again is that when
women show up to Face WithGrace, either in our roundtable
sessions or in personal sessions, over the phone or whatever it
may be everyone says the samething, no matter what industry
you're in, no matter what yourjob is or your role or title
it's.
I thought I was crazy and now Iknow I'm not, I'm not alone,
(15:36):
and I thought I was.
And to me, like it just hitshome every time I hear that
because it's like yes, first ofall like yes because it feels
like I'm accomplishing what Iset out to do, is like you are
not alone.
You have a support system herebuilt in, but just the
validation that people need tothen trigger change.
Right?
I think sometimes, especiallyas women, like we just need that
(15:58):
external validation to say youare enough.
This is not a you issue, thisis a systemic issue.
You know, whatever situationmay be, we can validate that for
you and help you take steps toa positive, healthier tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Curious as you think about.
Sometimes people feel like thisis a mountain, right, and it's
not easy to conquer a mountain.
What are maybe a couple of,like, smaller steps, actionable
things that someone can do?
Maybe they're even just babysteps around trying to not feel
like it's such an overwhelmingthing to conquer, rather like
okay, I'm going to take a littlebite of this today.
(16:34):
In what ways can they do thatto create more of a positive
impact in their situation?
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, that's a great question.
You know, I think thatsometimes it starts with finding
a trusted confidant in yourworkplace, right Like finding a
friend who's going through itwith you and again can offer
some of that validation.
But to create that level ofsupport within your organization
, that's kind of baby stepnumber one.
Not to say that you're creatingthis like us versus them.
(17:02):
I never want to come acrossthat way of Facebook grace, but
there is something to be saidfor a trusted confidant, and
when I say trusted, you've gotto make sure that person truly
is a trusted human.
Secondly, you know, I think thatit's starting with yourself.
It's getting very self-aware ofA.
Am I contributing to thistoxicity at all?
(17:23):
Because even when I've been insituations where I've looked at
an organization and been able toremove myself from that and
look back on those times, it'slike that toxicity affected me
as well and I know I was part ofthe problem at times.
It's like that toxicityaffected me as well and I know I
was part of the problem attimes and I know I could have
done better.
I think as humans, that's a hardthing to admit.
So we have to first look withinand figure out okay, how can I
(17:46):
make sure that I'm no longercontributing to this and feeding
into it and making it worse foranyone?
And then, in turn, what can Ido to spin things more
positively and create what wecall like a luminous leader and
be that guiding light for others, so that you can be a new
source of positivity for peopleand a new source of healthy
(18:07):
leadership for people, even ifyou are, you know, like, for
instance, in a hospital as aphysical therapist, if I'm just
a staffie, I can still do that.
I don't have to have some fancyleadership title to lead other
people to show them a goodexample.
So I think those are just acouple of steps that you can
take today that really can makea big difference.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
And I think we mirror so much of this right and we
may not be the only one feelinglike this.
And so, in that kind ofconnection within the company
and having somebody trusted tobe able to talk to, we're almost
like giving permission to thosearound us to be able to say,
like let's take, I'm going totake this small step toward
(18:52):
creating a better environment,or towards figuring out and
navigating the environment, andI think that gives permission,
that mirrors it to other people,to really, you know, it's like
being that taking that bravefirst step.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
And it's also you can also create sort of like an
accountability partner in thatas well, right?
Hey, I know that this is thedynamic in this organization.
I'm not a fan of it, You're nota fan of it.
Let's hold each otheraccountable to being that
guiding light for other peopleand not letting it perfuse into
us and us turn around andperfuse that back out into the
(19:25):
system.
So I think it's really valuableto use that trusted person like
that.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Okay, that's where we hit the pause button.
Next week, in part two, caitlingets real about the hidden toll
of workplace toxicity on mentalhealth, why asking for help is
the bravest step, and her boldvision for equipping young women
to spot red flags before theystart their careers.
She'll leave you with one pieceof advice that could change the
(19:52):
way you advocate for yourselfforever.
You're not going to want tomiss it.
Hope to see you back next week.
If today's episode challengedyou, moved you or lit a fire in
your soul, don't keep it toyourself.
Share it with somebody who'sready to rise.
Could I ask you to take 30seconds to leave a review?
It's the best way to say thankyou and help this show reach
(20:15):
more bold leaders like you,because this isn't just a review
.
It's the best way to say thankyou and help this show reach
more bold leaders like you,because this isn't just a
podcast, it's a movement.
We're not here to play small.
We're here to lead loud, onebold and unapologetic step at a
time.
Until next time, stay bold,stay grounded and make moves
that make mediocre uncomfortable.
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