August 19, 2025 • 20 mins
🎧 Episode 177: How to Rise, Lead & Heal After Workplace Toxicity with Kaitlyn Rios (Part 2)
In Part 2 of this heartfelt and transformative conversation, Faced With Grace founder Kaitlyn Rios returns to explore the role of mental wellness in overcoming workplace adversity, why asking for help can be the scariest step, and how to build a future of healthier, more inclusive workplace cultures.
We talk openly about the stigma surrounding mental health, the shame that often keeps women silent, and why advocacy, both for yourself and for others, is non-negotiable. Kaitlyn also shares her long-term vision for equipping the next generation of female leaders with the tools, awareness, and confidence to recognize and avoid toxic environments before they begin their careers.
If you’ve ever felt unseen, unheard, or unsupported at work, this conversation will challenge and inspire you to take action, starting with yourself.
We explore:
- Why asking for help is often the hardest and most pivotal step
- The hidden cost of ignoring mental health at work
- How generational stigma still impacts conversations around therapy and wellness
- Practical ways leaders can create safe spaces for vulnerability without becoming a therapist
- The Grit and Grace Collective: Kaitlyn’s vision for mentoring young women before they enter the workforce
- How to be a “luminous leader” and make a difference where you are right now
- Why leaving a toxic job isn’t always the only solution
- Kaitlyn’s most surprising lesson since launching Faced With Grace
- The one piece of wisdom she would share if it were her last day on earth
🔑 Key takeaways:
- You are not alone in your struggles, support exists if you’re willing to reach for it
- Mental wellness is as critical as physical health and should be addressed openly
- Leaders have the power to reduce stigma by creating space for honest conversations
- Preparation and self-awareness can help the next generation avoid toxicity altogether
- Advocacy for yourself is not selfish, it’s essential
đź’ˇ Quotes to remember:
- “Never stop advocating for yourself, because you matter.”
- “If your gut says something isn’t right, it probably isn’t.”
- “Your journey with mental wellness doesn’t end, it evolves.”
đź“š Resources mentioned:
 ✨ Learn more about Faced With Grace: www.facedwithgrace.org
 📧 Email Kaitlyn: connect@facedwithgrace.org
 🎟️ Register for the August 25th Virtual Speaker Summit: Event Page
📲 Connect with Kaitlyn:
 LinkedIn – Kaitlyn Rios
A rising tide raises all ships, and I invite you along on this journey to Evoke Greatness!
Check out my website: www.evokegreatness.com
Follow me on:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sonnie-linebarger-899b9a52/
https://www.instagram.com/evoke.greatness/
https://www.tiktok.com/@evoke.greatness
http://www.youtube.com/@evokegreatness
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The part where I think many women get stuck is
telling themselves the lie thatthis microaggression and that
microaggression didn't meananything Right.
If something is happening orsomething's being said or
something's being done thatdoesn't sit right with your gut,
it probably isn't right, and Ithink it's so, so easy for us to
ignore that, and I think thatyou know that's.
(00:20):
That's a very easy place to gettripped up and stuck in terms
of not being able to moveforward and make change happen.
If we keep telling ourselvesthat life like this is nothing,
don't worry about it, it's not abig deal, you're never going to
make that change happen,internally or externally.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Welcome to Evoke Greatness, the podcast for bold
leaders and big dreamers whorefuse to settle.
I'm your host, sunny.
I started in scrubs over 20years ago doing the gritty,
unseen work and climbed my wayto CEO.
Every rung of that laddertaught me something worth
passing on lessons in leadership, resilience and what it really
(01:02):
takes to rise.
Lessons in leadership,resilience and what it really
takes to rise.
You'll hear raw conversations,unfiltered truths and the kind
of wisdom that ignites somethingdeeper in you your courage,
your conviction, your calling.
This show will help you thinkbigger, lead better and show up
(01:26):
bolder in every part of yourlife.
This is your place to grow.
Let's rise together.
What's the hardest step inescaping workplace toxicity?
It's asking for help and itjust might save your life.
In part two of how to Rise,lead and Heal After Workplace
Toxicity, caitlin opens up aboutthe mental health impact of
(01:53):
toxic work environments, thegenerational stigma that keeps
women silent and her bold planto equip the next generation to
spot red flags before they enterthe workforce.
She leaves us with one piece ofadvice every woman needs to
hear.
Let's hop into part two.
In your experience with this,what have you seen, or maybe
where have you seen people getstuck the most in this, where
it's like they don't feel,because they're a certain area
(02:14):
or kind of navigating theprogression of this, that they
feel the most stuck or it'smaybe the scariest step.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
You know, I think it's the scariest step probably
is just asking for help in thefirst place.
The part where I think manywomen get stuck is telling
themselves the lie that thismicroaggression and that
microaggression didn't meananything.
Right, If something ishappening or something's being
said or something's being donethat doesn't sit right with your
(02:40):
gut, it probably isn't right,and I think it's so, so easy for
us to ignore that gut.
It probably isn't right and Ithink it's so easy for us to
ignore that, and I think thatyou know that's a very easy
place to get tripped up andstuck in terms of not being able
to move forward and make changehappen.
If we keep telling ourselvesthat lie like this is nothing,
don't worry about it, it's not abig deal.
You're never going to make thatchange happen, internally or
(03:02):
externally.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
What role does mental wellness play in the recovery
and growth process for the womenthat you support?
It's huge.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I cannot recommend doing talk therapy enough.
It has changed my lifeimmensely.
I recommend it to any of myclients for sure I can only do
so much.
I am not a licensed therapistor counselor.
Sure, I can only do so much.
I am not a licensed therapistor counselor.
But you know, I do believe thatmy mental health played a huge
role in why I experienced someof the things I did as well.
(03:33):
And so I think it's a littlebit of a double-edged sword, not
to say or diminish the toxicitythat I definitely experienced.
But had I been in a mentallyhealthier place, could I have
handled it differently?
Sure, I definitely could have.
There was a lot of undiagnosedanxiety, depression going on
when I was in that low place,and it's just so important, it's
so important to address that inyourself, to recognize it, to
(03:57):
just accept the fact that it'shappening.
In the first place, I thinkthere was a lot of denial
happening for me, like I'm young, I'm hungry, I'm ready to work
hard and I don't have anythinggoing on.
It's fine, I'm fine.
But yet I was ready to run mycar off the road.
My extra small scrubs werehanging off my body because I
was so skinny, like there wereso many different physiological
(04:18):
signs that pointed to mentalillness that I had no idea were
really part of the problem.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
What I've seen a lot is people talking a whole lot
more about, like, the healthimpacts they're having, but I
don't see the mental side ofthings being discussed enough.
And I think there's a deltathere, right, because we're
quick to say I've shared.
You know that I same thing,very ambitious and okay, let's
just keep growing and let's justkeep at it.
And all of a sudden my hairstarted falling out and having
(04:51):
all you know and it's like okay,well, it's just stress and we
want to just say it's just, it'sjust.
And then we just continueinside of that environment and,
of course, like that thencompounds on everything else
going on.
But why do you think it is thatfolks are willing to talk about
health issues but we're notwilling to talk about our
physical health issues but notour mental health issues?
Speaker 1 (05:12):
You know, I think it's a very generational thing
that is slowly beginning toshift.
I mean, I look at just mygeneration versus my parents.
Right, I noticed some changeshappening with my mom.
She's gone through a divorce,she went through all the ups and
downs associated with that andthere was a time, many years
after the divorce, where I'mlike you know, mom, I think you
(05:33):
should get back into therapy,like I didn't just tell some
things different.
And she's like oh, you know,that's still a little taboo for
my generation.
And it was surprising to hearthat because to me, I talk about
it all the time.
First of all, like I, it's justnot taboo anymore, but I think
there's this stigma around it,for whatever reason, um, that if
(05:53):
we are quote, unquote mentallyill which I don't really love
that term, but you know it iswhat it is Um then certainly we
are unfit or unable or not aptfor a challenge or the job or
the role or the career, and sowe avoid that label and we avoid
(06:14):
dealing with the issues thereand do ourselves a disservice in
the process.
But I think the more we talkabout it, the less that stigma
is around and pervasive topeople.
And you know, it just becomesjust like talking about how I
had a cold a couple weeks ago.
You know what I mean.
It's just not as big of a deal,even though it's a huge deal,
(06:34):
and we should definitely beaddressing it and talking about
it and seeking help for it allthe time.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
I think there's almost a like a shh with many
things.
I think there is also thisunderlying shame about it, and
if we've learned nothing overthe course of the last, let's
say, five-ish years, it's thatuntreated mental health in
varying levels.
I think we've pushed it downfor many years and not wanted to
(07:01):
talk about it and not wanted todeal with it, and I think we've
seen what happens, and so Iappreciate and I value the fact
that over the course of the lastfive years, it has become
something that we've not had achoice but to talk more about
and bring more awareness around,because I think probably just
like your mission is like peopleshould feel heard and seen and
(07:21):
that they're not alone, andthat's that's that biggest piece
is.
People can feel like I'msuffering and I must be the only
one that feels this way.
What do you say to those peoplewho feel like gosh?
I don't know that anyone elsefeels this way.
It's.
Maybe it's just maybe, maybeit's it's caused by me.
They want to revert inwardbecause it's just the sense of
(07:43):
isolation.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Well, first and foremost, you are certainly not
alone.
Mental health is well.
Mental illness and suicide evenare, like some of the leading
causes of death in America.
So, like you are definitely notalone, right?
But I think that it's soimportant to recognize while
this is something that'shappening inside of each one of
us, so it's easy to turn thatmirror on ourselves and say this
(08:06):
is a me problem.
This is not a problem that youare fault for.
You should feel no shame overit.
It is no different than anyother medical diagnosis you've
been given right.
If I had scoliosis, I wouldn'tthink it was my fault or my
problem or that I'm creating anissue in the world.
It just is what it is.
(08:26):
It's the way God made you.
It's something that we have toface and deal with and treat and
address and speak with medicalprofessionals about.
You know the shame around it issuch a sad thing to me because
it's and it truly is just likeany other medical diagnosis.
Obviously we go about itdifferently because it's much
(08:46):
more abstract and subjective andindividual, but at the end of
the day, we need to startlooking at it, I think, more
clinically, and that makes it alittle bit more palatable.
It's such an important thing tobe talking about, though.
Thank you so much for raisingawareness around this and
talking about this today.
About, though.
Thank you so much for raisingawareness around this and
talking about this today.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I know.
I love that you're willing toshare your story because I think
that people don't.
You know, we recognize thatsomething needs to change, but
then it's really hard to show upfrom a place of vulnerability
and openness to say, hey, thiswas my lived experience, and not
only did you say this is mylived experience, and I want
others to not have to go throughthe same thing or recognize
(09:27):
signs along the way where theycan hang a right before it gets
too bad or hang a left before itgets too bad.
But then you decided to reallyempower yourself and those
around you by creating Face withGrace, and so I love that
you're just so open and willingto share this, and I love to be
a platform to be able to shareyour story.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Thank you.
Thank you, and I think you knowsomething to be said too is
that your journey with mentalwellness doesn't really ever end
right.
I've.
I have bounced back from a verylow place and I've had some
dips since then.
Right, it's never a perfectscience, and so I want to
encourage your listeners that ifif you've dipped low and come
(10:06):
back high and then dip low again, like I don't think that's
uncommon and I think that'ssomething we also need to be
talking about is that it's likeonce you figure out what your
perfect, you know medicaltreatment concoction may be, or
therapy concoction or whateverit is that helps you the most.
It may not be a perfect science,always right, there may have to
be ebb and flow that youanticipate and just be willing
(10:30):
to try new things with that tohelp yourself get back to a
healthy place.
You know, I think that's one ofthe things that, especially in
the workplace, when we'restruggling with mental wellness,
it's a hard thing to go to yourboss and say I'm having a
really tough time today becausemy mental health isn't in check
right, like that.
(10:50):
It almost feels like aninconvenience at times, and so I
again encourage people to notview that as an inconvenience,
first and foremost because it'snot.
It's not something you can help.
You can't help it when you geta cold.
You can't help it when you'rehaving a day off, the day that's
just mentally off.
But again, to talk about itwith your boss, your leadership,
(11:10):
whatever it may be, and themore you bring it to light, the
more they realize who you areand what you're dealing with.
And so the whole thing, becauseyou're talking about it and
you're making it somethingthat's just conversational
instead of taboo.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Well, and I think, when you're willing to be a
leader who shows up in a waywhere you're empathetic to
situations, right, because life,life happens and it doesn't
always happen at the mostconvenient time and it's not
always the pretty kind of messy.
And I had a call with someonethis week and I just said, hey,
how are you doing?
(11:51):
And she said I'm okay.
And I said how are you really?
How are you really?
Because I don't think thatinitial answer is what it is,
and so we got to talk about it alittle bit more.
But I think when we're notwilling, we want to just explore
surface conversations.
I think that's when we keepthings at the surface, when
we're willing to allow someonethe safe space to say I'm not
(12:14):
okay right now, and we providethe environment and we provide
the support.
But if we're not asking,wholeheartedly, asking like we
really actually care about theperson, then we shouldn't expect
people to be able to feel safeenough to tell us how they're
really doing.
So true.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah, as a leader of people, I always wanted you know
to give my team that safe place, and I always told them I'm
like you know what.
You are a human being and waymore happens outside of these
four walls than I can see, andso you know I'm here, I'm a
listening ear.
If you need to talk, let meknow what's going on in life so
(12:51):
that again I can accommodate theway I'm leading you better and
show up for you better.
So important as leaders that wejust offer that space.
We don't have to becometherapists, right?
I don't think that's anexpectation we should hold for
ourselves, but just be alistener.
Be a listener and be open tohearing hard things.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Well, tell me about the long-term vision.
How does, faced with Grace,plan to influence future
generations of female leaders?
Speaker 1 (13:18):
So we are very much still in our growth phase.
We've only been going for nowabout six months, but I really
look forward to the day when wecan start building out our Grit
and Grace Collective.
That will be a mentorshipprogram for young women who have
yet to enter the workforce.
You know they may be in highschool or college and just about
(13:38):
to go out and get their firstbig girl job, and I want to be
able to meet with young womenlike that and teach them about
these red flags of toxicworkplaces and teach them what
healthy culture looks like andhow it can feel, but
alternatively, teach them whatan unhealthy culture feels and
looks like so that they canrecognize those things very
early on.
They can ask those really hardquestions in interviews, just be
(14:01):
really prepared.
So again, hopefully we arereally breaking the chains and
that we can cultivate healthycultures for the future of
workplaces, for women everywhere.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
It's almost like providing people those things
that we didn't have in place.
Oftentimes we're put into rolesand it's a little bit like a
baptism by fire and we navigateit right and we get better and
we're stronger and wiser andmore resilient.
But wow, if you could have hada little bit of insight into
what that future you know,especially navigating your first
job like that's a reallyimportant step, and so to have
(14:37):
the knowledge of those thingsand the ways in which to deal
with them are the things toidentify questions to ask in the
interview process ahead of time, before you ever actually have
to experience them.
It's like you're putting toolsin their tool belt before they
even have to use them Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yeah, it's a really exciting part of our mission and
, you know, I think it goes tojust getting to know yourself
really well too.
I think that's something thatisn't really taught in
classrooms.
And, you know, it took goingthrough all those really hard
experiences to take a reallydeep look at myself and realize,
okay, what are my values, whatare my, what is at the core of
(15:13):
me, that I don't want tosacrifice and that I will not
negotiate any further.
And you know, if I could haveknown those things and really
felt just rooted in those goinginto those first really
difficult jobs, it would havemade a world of difference.
So I hope I can do that foryoung women day soon.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
What's been the most surprising lesson you've learned
since launching thismission-driven work?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Nothing happens as fast as you want it to.
No, I mean, I think that Iwouldn't say it's surprising.
I knew this would be a hurdlethat I would face.
You know, honestly, justgetting women who are ready to
open up and receive the help hasbeen one of the hardest
struggles.
Like I said, I don't think itwas an unexpected lesson I would
learn, but it was more, it'sbeen more prevalent than I
(15:58):
thought it might be.
And so you know again, I justencourage women who feel like
any of this resonated just let'shave a conversation.
Even if it's one phone call,like that's okay.
You know, I think that it justhelps us to kind of get a pulse
on where we're at and know againthat we're not alone, we're not
crazy, and that what you'reexperiencing is real and there
(16:19):
are ways to navigate it reallyhealthily and ways.
You know again, just becauseyou're used to a toxic workplace
right, doesn't mean you have toleave.
I think that's a commonmisconception.
But when I have theseconversations with women it's
like, well, I can't just quit myjob.
I'm like I'm not asking you to.
That's not always the rightpath and I think that sometimes
(16:39):
that's the healthiest choice,right?
Sometimes we're in so deep andit's so dark that really we just
need to get you out of there.
But for some women it'steaching them again that well,
how can I be a guiding light topeople, how can I be that
luminous leader, how can I makea difference where I'm at today
to change not only my innermental health and inner psyche
(17:00):
around this situation, but helpothers feel seen and heard and
appreciated and guideddifferently than what they're
receiving within theirorganization?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
How can listeners get involved, whether they want to
seek support and have that callto.
Just you know, maybe it's likethey're dipping their toe into
the water of exploring this, ormaybe they want to offer
mentorship or contribute to yourcause because they've gone
through some experience wherethey've got those valuable
lessons and they have got thesame commitments and mission
that you do.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Love that idea, so the best way you can reach out
is through our email at connectat facedwithgraceorg, and then
anything that you want to learnmore about we have also on our
website at wwwfacedwithgraceorg.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
And you have an upcoming event.
Do you want to share thedetails around that?
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Sure, yes, I'm so excited and we have our very
first fundraiser coming up theend of August, on the 25th, we
are hosting a full day virtualspeaker summit, bringing
together powerhouse thoughtleaders and just motivational
speakers to cultivate a day ofempowerment and, you know, just
(18:08):
hopefully breeding this truesense of what Face with Grace
stands for.
I know each one of the speakerspersonally and, trust me, you
do not want to miss hearing allof them.
They're just wonderful humanswith excellent messages to share
.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Well, we will make sure to put all of that in the
show notes and links to be ableto join as we wrap up.
A question that I always loveto ask everybody is if it were
your last day on earth, and ofall the lessons, everything
you've learned so far, you hadone piece of wisdom to impart
with others, what would it be?
Man?
Speaker 1 (18:39):
what a question.
Never stop advocating foryourself, because you matter
Perfect.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
That reminds me of the quote plant trees under
whose shade you may never sit.
I love that.
It's that idea of thatmentorship, that advocacy for
others, that you're planting theseeds, so I love that.
Well, I know you shared some ofthe website links anywhere else
that people can go to followyou or learn more about you.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
So we're on all the major social platforms LinkedIn,
facebook, tiktok, instagram.
And then I meant to mention too, if anyone's interested in the
event, they can find that on ourevent page on the website.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Perfect, and we will put links to everything in the
show notes so you can directlyaccess that and then it'll take
you straight to her website.
Caitlin, thank you so much forcoming on and spending time and,
most of all, thank you forstanding up and being the
advocate for so many others whomay be experiencing what you've
gone through, but you'reshedding light on it and you're
offering light of hope as to howthey can navigate difficult
(19:41):
situations.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Thank you, I really appreciate those kind words.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
If today's episode challenged you, moved you or lit
a fire in your soul, don't keepit to yourself.
Share it with somebody who'sready to rise.
Could I ask you to take 30seconds to leave a review?
It's the best way to say thankyou and help this show reach
more bold leaders like you,because this isn't just a
podcast, it's a movement.
We're not here to play small.
(20:11):
We're here to lead loud, onebold and unapologetic step at a
time.
Until next time, stay bold,stay grounded and make moves
that make mediocre uncomfortable.
The part where I think many women get stuck is
telling themselves the lie thatthis microaggression and that
microaggression didn't meananything Right.
If something is happening orsomething's being said or
something's being done thatdoesn't sit right with your gut,
it probably isn't right, and Ithink it's so, so easy for us to
ignore that, and I think thatyou know that's.
(00:20):
That's a very easy place to gettripped up and stuck in terms
of not being able to moveforward and make change happen.
If we keep telling ourselvesthat life like this is nothing,
don't worry about it, it's not abig deal, you're never going to
make that change happen,internally or externally.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Welcome to Evoke Greatness, the podcast for bold
leaders and big dreamers whorefuse to settle.
I'm your host, sunny.
I started in scrubs over 20years ago doing the gritty,
unseen work and climbed my wayto CEO.
Every rung of that laddertaught me something worth
passing on lessons in leadership, resilience and what it really
(01:02):
takes to rise.
Lessons in leadership,resilience and what it really
takes to rise.
You'll hear raw conversations,unfiltered truths and the kind
of wisdom that ignites somethingdeeper in you your courage,
your conviction, your calling.
This show will help you thinkbigger, lead better and show up
(01:26):
bolder in every part of yourlife.
This is your place to grow.
Let's rise together.
What's the hardest step inescaping workplace toxicity?
It's asking for help and itjust might save your life.
In part two of how to Rise,lead and Heal After Workplace
Toxicity, caitlin opens up aboutthe mental health impact of
(01:53):
toxic work environments, thegenerational stigma that keeps
women silent and her bold planto equip the next generation to
spot red flags before they enterthe workforce.
She leaves us with one piece ofadvice every woman needs to
hear.
Let's hop into part two.
In your experience with this,what have you seen, or maybe
where have you seen people getstuck the most in this, where
it's like they don't feel,because they're a certain area
(02:14):
or kind of navigating theprogression of this, that they
feel the most stuck or it'smaybe the scariest step.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
You know, I think it's the scariest step probably
is just asking for help in thefirst place.
The part where I think manywomen get stuck is telling
themselves the lie that thismicroaggression and that
microaggression didn't meananything.
Right, If something ishappening or something's being
said or something's being donethat doesn't sit right with your
(02:40):
gut, it probably isn't right,and I think it's so, so easy for
us to ignore that gut.
It probably isn't right and Ithink it's so easy for us to
ignore that, and I think thatyou know that's a very easy
place to get tripped up andstuck in terms of not being able
to move forward and make changehappen.
If we keep telling ourselvesthat lie like this is nothing,
don't worry about it, it's not abig deal.
You're never going to make thatchange happen, internally or
(03:02):
externally.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
What role does mental wellness play in the recovery
and growth process for the womenthat you support?
It's huge.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I cannot recommend doing talk therapy enough.
It has changed my lifeimmensely.
I recommend it to any of myclients for sure I can only do
so much.
I am not a licensed therapistor counselor.
Sure, I can only do so much.
I am not a licensed therapistor counselor.
But you know, I do believe thatmy mental health played a huge
role in why I experienced someof the things I did as well.
(03:33):
And so I think it's a littlebit of a double-edged sword, not
to say or diminish the toxicitythat I definitely experienced.
But had I been in a mentallyhealthier place, could I have
handled it differently?
Sure, I definitely could have.
There was a lot of undiagnosedanxiety, depression going on
when I was in that low place,and it's just so important, it's
so important to address that inyourself, to recognize it, to
(03:57):
just accept the fact that it'shappening.
In the first place, I thinkthere was a lot of denial
happening for me, like I'm young, I'm hungry, I'm ready to work
hard and I don't have anythinggoing on.
It's fine, I'm fine.
But yet I was ready to run mycar off the road.
My extra small scrubs werehanging off my body because I
was so skinny, like there wereso many different physiological
(04:18):
signs that pointed to mentalillness that I had no idea were
really part of the problem.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
What I've seen a lot is people talking a whole lot
more about, like, the healthimpacts they're having, but I
don't see the mental side ofthings being discussed enough.
And I think there's a deltathere, right, because we're
quick to say I've shared.
You know that I same thing,very ambitious and okay, let's
just keep growing and let's justkeep at it.
And all of a sudden my hairstarted falling out and having
(04:51):
all you know and it's like okay,well, it's just stress and we
want to just say it's just, it'sjust.
And then we just continueinside of that environment and,
of course, like that thencompounds on everything else
going on.
But why do you think it is thatfolks are willing to talk about
health issues but we're notwilling to talk about our
physical health issues but notour mental health issues?
Speaker 1 (05:12):
You know, I think it's a very generational thing
that is slowly beginning toshift.
I mean, I look at just mygeneration versus my parents.
Right, I noticed some changeshappening with my mom.
She's gone through a divorce,she went through all the ups and
downs associated with that andthere was a time, many years
after the divorce, where I'mlike you know, mom, I think you
(05:33):
should get back into therapy,like I didn't just tell some
things different.
And she's like oh, you know,that's still a little taboo for
my generation.
And it was surprising to hearthat because to me, I talk about
it all the time.
First of all, like I, it's justnot taboo anymore, but I think
there's this stigma around it,for whatever reason, um, that if
(05:53):
we are quote, unquote mentallyill which I don't really love
that term, but you know it iswhat it is Um then certainly we
are unfit or unable or not aptfor a challenge or the job or
the role or the career, and sowe avoid that label and we avoid
(06:14):
dealing with the issues thereand do ourselves a disservice in
the process.
But I think the more we talkabout it, the less that stigma
is around and pervasive topeople.
And you know, it just becomesjust like talking about how I
had a cold a couple weeks ago.
You know what I mean.
It's just not as big of a deal,even though it's a huge deal,
(06:34):
and we should definitely beaddressing it and talking about
it and seeking help for it allthe time.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
I think there's almost a like a shh with many
things.
I think there is also thisunderlying shame about it, and
if we've learned nothing overthe course of the last, let's
say, five-ish years, it's thatuntreated mental health in
varying levels.
I think we've pushed it downfor many years and not wanted to
(07:01):
talk about it and not wanted todeal with it, and I think we've
seen what happens, and so Iappreciate and I value the fact
that over the course of the lastfive years, it has become
something that we've not had achoice but to talk more about
and bring more awareness around,because I think probably just
like your mission is like peopleshould feel heard and seen and
(07:21):
that they're not alone, andthat's that's that biggest piece
is.
People can feel like I'msuffering and I must be the only
one that feels this way.
What do you say to those peoplewho feel like gosh?
I don't know that anyone elsefeels this way.
It's.
Maybe it's just maybe, maybeit's it's caused by me.
They want to revert inwardbecause it's just the sense of
(07:43):
isolation.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Well, first and foremost, you are certainly not
alone.
Mental health is well.
Mental illness and suicide evenare, like some of the leading
causes of death in America.
So, like you are definitely notalone, right?
But I think that it's soimportant to recognize while
this is something that'shappening inside of each one of
us, so it's easy to turn thatmirror on ourselves and say this
(08:06):
is a me problem.
This is not a problem that youare fault for.
You should feel no shame overit.
It is no different than anyother medical diagnosis you've
been given right.
If I had scoliosis, I wouldn'tthink it was my fault or my
problem or that I'm creating anissue in the world.
It just is what it is.
(08:26):
It's the way God made you.
It's something that we have toface and deal with and treat and
address and speak with medicalprofessionals about.
You know the shame around it issuch a sad thing to me because
it's and it truly is just likeany other medical diagnosis.
Obviously we go about itdifferently because it's much
(08:46):
more abstract and subjective andindividual, but at the end of
the day, we need to startlooking at it, I think, more
clinically, and that makes it alittle bit more palatable.
It's such an important thing tobe talking about, though.
Thank you so much for raisingawareness around this and
talking about this today.
About, though.
Thank you so much for raisingawareness around this and
talking about this today.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I know.
I love that you're willing toshare your story because I think
that people don't.
You know, we recognize thatsomething needs to change, but
then it's really hard to show upfrom a place of vulnerability
and openness to say, hey, thiswas my lived experience, and not
only did you say this is mylived experience, and I want
others to not have to go throughthe same thing or recognize
(09:27):
signs along the way where theycan hang a right before it gets
too bad or hang a left before itgets too bad.
But then you decided to reallyempower yourself and those
around you by creating Face withGrace, and so I love that
you're just so open and willingto share this, and I love to be
a platform to be able to shareyour story.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Thank you.
Thank you, and I think you knowsomething to be said too is
that your journey with mentalwellness doesn't really ever end
right.
I've.
I have bounced back from a verylow place and I've had some
dips since then.
Right, it's never a perfectscience, and so I want to
encourage your listeners that ifif you've dipped low and come
(10:06):
back high and then dip low again, like I don't think that's
uncommon and I think that'ssomething we also need to be
talking about is that it's likeonce you figure out what your
perfect, you know medicaltreatment concoction may be, or
therapy concoction or whateverit is that helps you the most.
It may not be a perfect science,always right, there may have to
be ebb and flow that youanticipate and just be willing
(10:30):
to try new things with that tohelp yourself get back to a
healthy place.
You know, I think that's one ofthe things that, especially in
the workplace, when we'restruggling with mental wellness,
it's a hard thing to go to yourboss and say I'm having a
really tough time today becausemy mental health isn't in check
right, like that.
(10:50):
It almost feels like aninconvenience at times, and so I
again encourage people to notview that as an inconvenience,
first and foremost because it'snot.
It's not something you can help.
You can't help it when you geta cold.
You can't help it when you'rehaving a day off, the day that's
just mentally off.
But again, to talk about itwith your boss, your leadership,
(11:10):
whatever it may be, and themore you bring it to light, the
more they realize who you areand what you're dealing with.
And so the whole thing, becauseyou're talking about it and
you're making it somethingthat's just conversational
instead of taboo.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Well, and I think, when you're willing to be a
leader who shows up in a waywhere you're empathetic to
situations, right, because life,life happens and it doesn't
always happen at the mostconvenient time and it's not
always the pretty kind of messy.
And I had a call with someonethis week and I just said, hey,
how are you doing?
(11:51):
And she said I'm okay.
And I said how are you really?
How are you really?
Because I don't think thatinitial answer is what it is,
and so we got to talk about it alittle bit more.
But I think when we're notwilling, we want to just explore
surface conversations.
I think that's when we keepthings at the surface, when
we're willing to allow someonethe safe space to say I'm not
(12:14):
okay right now, and we providethe environment and we provide
the support.
But if we're not asking,wholeheartedly, asking like we
really actually care about theperson, then we shouldn't expect
people to be able to feel safeenough to tell us how they're
really doing.
So true.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah, as a leader of people, I always wanted you know
to give my team that safe place, and I always told them I'm
like you know what.
You are a human being and waymore happens outside of these
four walls than I can see, andso you know I'm here, I'm a
listening ear.
If you need to talk, let meknow what's going on in life so
(12:51):
that again I can accommodate theway I'm leading you better and
show up for you better.
So important as leaders that wejust offer that space.
We don't have to becometherapists, right?
I don't think that's anexpectation we should hold for
ourselves, but just be alistener.
Be a listener and be open tohearing hard things.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Well, tell me about the long-term vision.
How does, faced with Grace,plan to influence future
generations of female leaders?
Speaker 1 (13:18):
So we are very much still in our growth phase.
We've only been going for nowabout six months, but I really
look forward to the day when wecan start building out our Grit
and Grace Collective.
That will be a mentorshipprogram for young women who have
yet to enter the workforce.
You know they may be in highschool or college and just about
(13:38):
to go out and get their firstbig girl job, and I want to be
able to meet with young womenlike that and teach them about
these red flags of toxicworkplaces and teach them what
healthy culture looks like andhow it can feel, but
alternatively, teach them whatan unhealthy culture feels and
looks like so that they canrecognize those things very
early on.
They can ask those really hardquestions in interviews, just be
(14:01):
really prepared.
So again, hopefully we arereally breaking the chains and
that we can cultivate healthycultures for the future of
workplaces, for women everywhere.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
It's almost like providing people those things
that we didn't have in place.
Oftentimes we're put into rolesand it's a little bit like a
baptism by fire and we navigateit right and we get better and
we're stronger and wiser andmore resilient.
But wow, if you could have hada little bit of insight into
what that future you know,especially navigating your first
job like that's a reallyimportant step, and so to have
(14:37):
the knowledge of those thingsand the ways in which to deal
with them are the things toidentify questions to ask in the
interview process ahead of time, before you ever actually have
to experience them.
It's like you're putting toolsin their tool belt before they
even have to use them Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yeah, it's a really exciting part of our mission and
, you know, I think it goes tojust getting to know yourself
really well too.
I think that's something thatisn't really taught in
classrooms.
And, you know, it took goingthrough all those really hard
experiences to take a reallydeep look at myself and realize,
okay, what are my values, whatare my, what is at the core of
(15:13):
me, that I don't want tosacrifice and that I will not
negotiate any further.
And you know, if I could haveknown those things and really
felt just rooted in those goinginto those first really
difficult jobs, it would havemade a world of difference.
So I hope I can do that foryoung women day soon.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
What's been the most surprising lesson you've learned
since launching thismission-driven work?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Nothing happens as fast as you want it to.
No, I mean, I think that Iwouldn't say it's surprising.
I knew this would be a hurdlethat I would face.
You know, honestly, justgetting women who are ready to
open up and receive the help hasbeen one of the hardest
struggles.
Like I said, I don't think itwas an unexpected lesson I would
learn, but it was more, it'sbeen more prevalent than I
(15:58):
thought it might be.
And so you know again, I justencourage women who feel like
any of this resonated just let'shave a conversation.
Even if it's one phone call,like that's okay.
You know, I think that it justhelps us to kind of get a pulse
on where we're at and know againthat we're not alone, we're not
crazy, and that what you'reexperiencing is real and there
(16:19):
are ways to navigate it reallyhealthily and ways.
You know again, just becauseyou're used to a toxic workplace
right, doesn't mean you have toleave.
I think that's a commonmisconception.
But when I have theseconversations with women it's
like, well, I can't just quit myjob.
I'm like I'm not asking you to.
That's not always the rightpath and I think that sometimes
(16:39):
that's the healthiest choice,right?
Sometimes we're in so deep andit's so dark that really we just
need to get you out of there.
But for some women it'steaching them again that well,
how can I be a guiding light topeople, how can I be that
luminous leader, how can I makea difference where I'm at today
to change not only my innermental health and inner psyche
(17:00):
around this situation, but helpothers feel seen and heard and
appreciated and guideddifferently than what they're
receiving within theirorganization?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
How can listeners get involved, whether they want to
seek support and have that callto.
Just you know, maybe it's likethey're dipping their toe into
the water of exploring this, ormaybe they want to offer
mentorship or contribute to yourcause because they've gone
through some experience wherethey've got those valuable
lessons and they have got thesame commitments and mission
that you do.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Love that idea, so the best way you can reach out
is through our email at connectat facedwithgraceorg, and then
anything that you want to learnmore about we have also on our
website at wwwfacedwithgraceorg.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
And you have an upcoming event.
Do you want to share thedetails around that?
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Sure, yes, I'm so excited and we have our very
first fundraiser coming up theend of August, on the 25th, we
are hosting a full day virtualspeaker summit, bringing
together powerhouse thoughtleaders and just motivational
speakers to cultivate a day ofempowerment and, you know, just
(18:08):
hopefully breeding this truesense of what Face with Grace
stands for.
I know each one of the speakerspersonally and, trust me, you
do not want to miss hearing allof them.
They're just wonderful humanswith excellent messages to share
.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Well, we will make sure to put all of that in the
show notes and links to be ableto join as we wrap up.
A question that I always loveto ask everybody is if it were
your last day on earth, and ofall the lessons, everything
you've learned so far, you hadone piece of wisdom to impart
with others, what would it be?
Man?
Speaker 1 (18:39):
what a question.
Never stop advocating foryourself, because you matter
Perfect.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
That reminds me of the quote plant trees under
whose shade you may never sit.
I love that.
It's that idea of thatmentorship, that advocacy for
others, that you're planting theseeds, so I love that.
Well, I know you shared some ofthe website links anywhere else
that people can go to followyou or learn more about you.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
So we're on all the major social platforms LinkedIn,
facebook, tiktok, instagram.
And then I meant to mention too, if anyone's interested in the
event, they can find that on ourevent page on the website.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Perfect, and we will put links to everything in the
show notes so you can directlyaccess that and then it'll take
you straight to her website.
Caitlin, thank you so much forcoming on and spending time and,
most of all, thank you forstanding up and being the
advocate for so many others whomay be experiencing what you've
gone through, but you'reshedding light on it and you're
offering light of hope as to howthey can navigate difficult
(19:41):
situations.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Thank you, I really appreciate those kind words.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
If today's episode challenged you, moved you or lit
a fire in your soul, don't keepit to yourself.
Share it with somebody who'sready to rise.
Could I ask you to take 30seconds to leave a review?
It's the best way to say thankyou and help this show reach
more bold leaders like you,because this isn't just a
podcast, it's a movement.
We're not here to play small.
(20:11):
We're here to lead loud, onebold and unapologetic step at a
time.
Until next time, stay bold,stay grounded and make moves
that make mediocre uncomfortable.
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