May 6, 2025 • 28 mins
🎧 Episode 163: Lead Beyond Limits: Thriving with a Hidden Disability with Jennifer Koster (Part 1)
In this powerful episode, we dive deep with Jennifer Koster, an inspiring leader who shares her 30-year journey living with HEDS (Hypermobility Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome), a connective tissue disorder that remained undiagnosed until 2022. From college athlete to advocacy champion, Jennifer's story illuminates how personal challenges can become a source of unique strength and leadership wisdom.
We explore:
- The challenging path to diagnosis and validation
- Transforming limitations into pathways for empowerment
- The grieving process of adapting to progressive physical challenges
- Finding community and building your personal "tribe"
- Overcoming internalized ableism and shame
- Leading with curiosity instead of judgment
- Building resilient teams through diversity of experience
🔑 Key takeaways:
- Receiving a diagnosis can be empowering rather than limiting - providing validation, community, and better healthcare outcomes
- Reframing our challenges helps transform our relationship with them
- Intentional language choices can dramatically shift our perspective on disabilities
- Learning to ask "what if?" opens new possibilities beyond perceived limitations
- Leadership lessons from living with a hidden disability include adaptability, resilience, and authentic team building
💡 Quotes to remember:
"I'm empowered for independence." - Jennifer Koster's personal mantra
"I don't use that language anymore. I didn't hurt myself. I became injured because of my condition." - Jennifer Koster on changing self-talk
"She didn't see me as weak and barely hanging on... She saw me as a survivor." - Jennifer Koster on the power of others' perspectives
🌟 Featured Insights:
- How receiving a diagnosis after 30 years brought relief and community
- The importance of leading with curiosity over judgment in both healthcare and leadership
- Taking feedback as data rather than personal criticism
- Building teams of people willing to learn and journey together
- Practicing essential self-care to prevent burnout
📚 Resources: As May is EDS Awareness Month, look for Jennifer's planned 2025 campaign featuring fellow "zebras" (the symbol of the EDS community) Watch for Jennifer's talk: "Lead Beyond Resilience through the lens of a hidden disability"
Connect with Jennifer: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-koster-mba-sphr-shrm-scp-1a648810/
A rising tide raises all ships, and I invite you along on this journey to Evoke Greatness!
Check out my website: www.evokegreatness.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Evoke Greatness.
We are officially entering yearthree of this podcast and I am
filled with so much gratitudefor each and every one of you
who've joined me on thisincredible journey of growth and
self-discovery.
I'm Sunny, your host and fellowtraveler on this path of
personal evolution.
This podcast is a sanctuary forthe curious, the ambitious and
(00:28):
the introspective.
It's for those of you who, likeme, are captivated by the
champion mindset and driven byan insatiable hunger for growth
and knowledge.
Whether you're just beginningyour journey or you're well
along your path, you're going tofind stories here that resonate
with your experiences andaspirations.
Over the last two years, we'veshared countless stories of
triumph and challenge, ofresilience and transformation.
(00:51):
We've laughed, we've reflectedand we've grown together.
And as we've evolved, so toohas this podcast.
Remember, no matter whatchapter you're on in your own
story, you belong here.
This community we've builttogether is a place of support,
inspiration and shared growth.
Where intention goes, energyflows, and the energy you bring
(01:13):
to this space elevates us all.
So, whether you're listeningwhile commuting, working out or
enjoying your morning coffee,perhaps from one of those
motivational mugs I'm so fond of, know that you're a part of
something special.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for your curiosity,your openness and your
commitment to personal growth.
As we embark on year three, Iinvite you to lean in, to listen
(01:36):
deeply and to let these storiesresonate with your soul.
I believe that a rising tideraises all ships and I invite
you along in this journey toevoke greatness.
(01:56):
Welcome back to another episodeof Evoke Greatness, the podcast
where we explore resilience,leadership and the power of
human spirit.
Today, I'm excited to welcomemy guest, jennifer Koster, a
woman who embodies the veryessence of what it means to lead
beyond limits.
Jennifer has lived with HEDS, aconnective tissue disorder, her
entire life, yet it took 30years to receive a proper
(02:17):
diagnosis.
Since receiving that diagnosisin April of 2022, she has
transformed her personalchallenge into a mission of
awareness and advocacy.
Our conversation today is goingto explore her journey from
diagnosis to becoming a powerfulvoice in the EDS community, her
perspective on leadershipthrough the lens of a hidden
disability and how embracing ourchallenges can become our
(02:40):
greatest source of strength.
As May is EDS Awareness Month,we're also going to discuss her
evolution from making a singleLinkedIn post in 2022 to going
all in with public speaking andawareness campaigns, with plans
to feature fellow zebras, thesymbol of the EDS community in
2025.
Her talk Lead Beyond Limits.
Resilience Through the Lens ofa Hidden Disability has inspired
(03:02):
many to reframe their ownchallenges and recognize the
unique strengths that emergefrom adversity.
So join us for this powerfulconversation about resilience,
overcoming internalized ableismand finding purpose through
personal struggle.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Jennifer, welcome to the show.
Well, thank you so much forhaving me.
I'm very glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Absolutely Well, I'm excited to hop in and just
really explore more of yourstory.
I always like to kick it offand have you share some of your
story that paved the way to kindof life as it looks like today.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, so when it comes to the journey to receive
an HEDS diagnosis, I think itreally stood out to me once I
was in college.
I was a college athlete, I wasplaying tennis collegiately and
I was constantly having what Inow know to be subluxations,
tendon tears, ligament tears.
(03:54):
But at the time when you'reyoung and you're playing sports,
you know you're just like,patch me up and let's go Like we
have things to do.
And I remember we were trainingin Florida and I was a freshman
at the time and the seniorsgave all of the freshmen
nicknames.
Now this wasn't like hazing oranything like that, it was all
in love and it was all fun.
(04:14):
But they nicknamed me fragilebecause the coach was always
having to tape my ankles.
I was dealing with tennis elbow, I would have a shoulder that
was giving me problems and youknow you kind of just started to
think I'm a little bit unlucky,Like these injuries keep just
occurring.
And then, as I went on throughthat, you know, young adulthood,
(04:35):
I got a lot of other healthchallenges and concerns.
I was going from physician tophysician trying to find answers
.
People really weren't findingany succinct answers and so that
was frustrating, almost makesyou feel like you know, do they
believe me what's going on?
And so there were times where Iwould more aggressively try to
(05:01):
advocate and seek some type ofanswers or diagnosis.
And there were other timeswhere I just had to completely
take a break from it and justmore just manage symptoms,
because I just couldn't have mywhole life be about seeking, and
maybe that's why I think theaverage time to get a diagnosis
is 10 to 12 years.
So I always joke like I'm soabove average because it took me
(05:24):
30 years.
This is 10 to 12 years, so Ialways joke like I'm so above
average because it took me 30years, which is not an area of
my life where I wanted to beabove average, but maybe it was
because I took those breaks ofnot seeking.
But I'm really thankful that Istarted looking again in 2021-22
.
And I was able to go to Yale fortheir executive health program
(05:49):
where I was able to see theirhead, cardiologist, rheumatology
, genetics, physical medicine,physical therapy and take this
really collaborative approach.
And there was a lot of preparingfor it, lots of tests and what
I call the endlessness of pokingand prodding that is life with
EDS all ahead of time butultimately resulted in that
(06:11):
diagnosis when I left there, Ihad it, you know, car ride home
and I would say that my reactionto that was lots of emotions,
there were tears, but there wasalso just like a lot of relief
that there was something thatmade sense to me and explained
so much and that's been aresounding thread in everyone
(06:33):
I've talked to with EDS thatonce they got a diagnosis there
was this sense of relief becauseknowledge and naming something
there's power, in that there'sbetter health outcomes, in that
there's better mental healthaspects of that.
And that was just.
I'm very thankful that I hadthe opportunity to go to Yale
(06:56):
and kind of take a turn, albeita little bit late in life, still
very impactful.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Yeah, I'm curious.
So you talked a bit about likewhen you were an athlete and
these injuries that you weresustaining, that were that
really had no explanation tothem.
Did those types of injuriescontinue to occur?
You know, as you went later onin your into your adulthood?
It sounds like pain, maybe alot of the symptom that you're
navigating as well.
(07:22):
Did those things follow youthroughout?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yes, absolutely, and for me they got progressively
worse.
That's not everyone's storywith EDS.
I mean, you mentioned in theintro about the zebra being kind
of the representation for thosein the EDS community and they
say, like, just like, everyzebra has unique stripes, right,
if you've met one person withEDS, you've met one person.
So that's not the story and Idon't want to spread any fear,
(07:46):
but for me it did getprogressively worse.
I mean, and I think the biggestthing with it is kind of a
grieving process.
So over time, okay, I can nolonger be an athlete, okay,
that's okay.
And then now I can no longerwalk even a mile and now I can
no longer do things to help takecare of my children physically
or I had to do a lot of adaptivethings and back when my
(08:08):
children were young I didn'thave a diagnosis.
So you know, things likegetting them in and out of the
car seat were really, reallychallenging and we had to come
up with like, how are you goingto use your knee and like, like
all these adjustments and howcan, once the kids are old
enough, how can, how can theyhelp and be a part of it?
So there is a lot ofadaptability and resilience,
just in kind of figuring out howto do life with these physical
(08:32):
challenges.
And then I think, over timethere is a grieving process of
okay, now my circumstance ischanging again, and is this just
for a period of time or is thisa new normal?
And we're not sure, and youdon't know.
And so there's some of thosemental resilience too in how are
(08:54):
we going to approach thesethings?
And it's a balance.
I mean, you need to have yourtimes to be angry or cry or
whatever, but how long do youwant to be in that down spiral?
And what can you shift in yourthinking or mindset to obviously
honor and give yourself thespace to do that, because all
the emotions are there for areason.
But then what are you going todo next?
(09:16):
And that's been some of thethings I've learned to do over
the years.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Well and you, having lived with these symptoms for 30
years before the diagnosis.
Some people think, or mightthink, of a diagnosis as a
limitation, but you framed it asthis pathway to resilience.
What do you think helped youreframe the way that you view
this?
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Well, definitely, having the diagnosis once it
kind of sinks in and you workthrough some of the emotions.
One of the biggest things isyou can build your tribe, like
we all need community.
And now I actually have friendswho have EDS and you know it's
great to have all sorts ofcommunity your family, loved
ones, friends, co-workers,partners but when you have
(09:59):
someone in your community thatknows your lived experience or
something very similar to yourlived experience, they kind of
just get you and it's just sonice to have a place where, like
, okay, this person just gets me.
I don't think she would mindsharing.
But the other day Christinatexted me a picture of her
freezer and said it just dawnedon me that this is life with EDS
(10:21):
and the only thing that was inthere were all ice packs of like
for wrapping around your ankleor the kind that go around your
arm or, and it's like, oh yes,and I'm looking, I'm like I have
that one, I have that one.
So there's just there'ssomething nice about having your
tribe of people.
It also just is empowering,because now you have more
(10:41):
information, now you can learnthings that you didn't know, and
so, in addition to theconnection, there's just
actually better healthcareoutcomes.
It helps your physicians.
Now they know already going inright, so they don't know what
they don't know.
And all the physicians I sawover the years I have no doubt
that every one of them wouldhave loved to have helped me get
(11:04):
to a diagnosis, but they didn'tknow what they didn't know or I
wasn't presenting in a way thatwas easily to put that together
, which is obviously why, if theaverage is 10 to 12 years, that
I'm not the only one with thatexperience.
So I think reframing it forempowerment I think your
question was about the reframe.
That's how it's been for me andI might share one story with
(11:28):
you about a gift that my songave me.
So we were on a date.
He might call it forced familyfun.
It is required.
So we were on a date and Ithink we went to a coffee shop
and afterwards he said and hewas, I think he was 17 at the
time he said, hey, can we stopat the store?
I want to pick up something formy girlfriend.
(11:48):
I said yeah, and I drove upthere and I dropped him off and
he's like aren't you going tocome in?
This looks like a store thatyou would be interested in.
I said, oh like, look, honey,like the parking lot's full, I'm
going to have to park way outthere.
I don't know how long you wantto look around.
I don't want you to feel rushed.
I'm not sure I'm feeling up tostanding that long.
(12:08):
It's no problem, I'll like havemy coffee.
You take your time, I'll pickyou up.
Great, that's what we did.
So he actually walked back tothe car and before we left he
said can I tell you something?
And you promised not to get mad.
And you know, I think feedbackis a gift, but when you have
teenage sons, I wasn't quitesure what he was going to say
and I think I said somethinglike that depends if it's mean
(12:29):
or stupid, but hit me up.
And he said have you everthought about getting a
disability placard for your car?
And I was like immediately.
I was like honey, that's not.
That's for people who have alot more mobility challenges
than me.
And he said okay, maybe it'sjust something you want to think
about than me.
And he said okay, maybe it'sjust something you want to think
about.
And I thought about it and Idecided well, I don't decide,
(12:50):
the doctor decides.
I'll just ask them.
And she said absolutely, youqualify, I would 100% give you
one of those.
And so then I got it.
But then I didn't want to useit, and if I did use it, I felt
bad about using it.
And I talked to this reallygreat coach that I have about it
and she said well, you need amantra for when you use it like
(13:12):
a reframe.
And so I decided that everytime I used it, I would say I'm
empowered for independence,because my son's complaint was
this vision that I would be amore active participant in his
life and my own.
And that's the gift he gave me,because now I go to volleyball
(13:32):
matches by myself.
I wouldn't have gone before ifsomeone couldn't drop me off at
the door.
I can do things thatindependently that I wouldn't
have done before and I don'tfeel bad about using it when I
need it now, because I'mempowered for independence was
my reframe, and so that's anexample of you might not know an
(13:55):
immediate reframe in your ownlife, but you could think on it
and you could shift somethingfor yourself, I love that and
what keeps coming to my mindimmediately as you began sharing
, was you had a choice to make.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
There was two choices you could make.
That choice was to figure outhow to frame it in a different
light so that you could actuallyprocess through and navigate
the emotions.
You know, as you mentioned,grief, that's a real thing, and
there was a choice in there andyou chose to navigate that in a
way where it wasn't going to besomething.
Although I'm sure there weremany of days that felt dark,
(14:36):
overall you made a choice thatthat wasn't going to be a dark
cloud over your entire life, andI think that is your
intentionality around.
That I commend, because itwould have been very easy for
that, for you to have looked atit a different way, where it
became even more debilitatingthan it already was, and so I
love that you use the wordempower, like empowering your
(14:58):
independence, because, thoughyou may not be able to park way
out in the parking lot, you canstill do the things because
you're choosing, like you'rechoosing the path to navigate it
in the most positive way youcan.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yeah, and I think now I ask myself more questions.
I definitely use the questionwhat if?
All the time.
So if I'm having some limitingbelief, like I couldn't possibly
go be a speaker at the NAAconference in Las Vegas, that's
way too much for me Then I'llsay what if I could?
(15:31):
What would that look like?
What would have to happen?
What would I need to dodifferent?
What accommodations would Ineed?
And actually this friend,Christina, that I mentioned, I
often think about her becausesometimes, if I don't feel
motivated enough to ask what ifof myself, I'll think well, what
would Christina say?
And she would usually say well,are you sure you can't do that?
(15:53):
Because maybe there's a way youcan.
And so it gets you thinkingabout new opportunities.
And we talk a lot in coachingabout making the upgrades.
So if feedback is just datayour own self-judgments or
feedback from others is justdata, then you don't have to be
defensive, you don't have tofeel blamed or shamed, and you
(16:14):
can think offensive.
You don't have to feel blamedor shamed and you can think okay
, if that's the data that I have, what's the upgrade I could
make?
And maybe the answer is no.
I'm going to say no to that Iam not.
It is not worth the risk to meto do that and that's fine.
Or maybe you'll say yes, andthen you'll collect the data and
think, okay, I won't be doingit that way again.
Or maybe you'll collect thedata and think that was
(16:35):
fantastic.
But I've had to learn not tohave a lot of self-blame,
self-ableism and shame around it.
Even changing the languagehelps.
Like I used to say, oh, I hurtmyself when one of these things
would happen, but I didn't hurtmyself.
I became injured because of mycondition, so I don't use that
(16:57):
language anymore.
I try to use different languagearound it.
So those are some of the thingsthat I'm still on the journey
of learning.
It's not like I have this allfigured out, but I have
community now, which helps,because now we can journey
together and not be alone.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah, Our language.
I think what we, as kind ofmankind, forget is that our
brains are so powerful that theylisten to what we're saying,
and so the language, to yourpoint, is so important because
our brain believes what we'resaying repeatedly, and so for us
(17:31):
to you know, it goes back tothe whole neuroplasticity thing,
right, like we train our brain.
But we can actually untrain ourbrain or train our brain to
think and view thingsdifferently, and so that's a
perfect example of that ofsaying, okay, I need to be aware
of the language that I'm usingbecause of how that it shows up
for me, how it's making me feel,and I need to identify it
correctly, because it's not youthat's doing this to yourself.
(17:53):
I really love that.
Like I think people don'tunderstand how powerful our
words and our language are, anduntil maybe we're in a situation
like that where, if we justflip how we're framing it or how
we're saying it, it makes uslook at it completely different.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, I totally agree , and I also think that there's
an opportunity to breathelanguage into others.
So it can go both ways.
It can go for ourselves and itcan also go come from others.
And there's a lot ofcomorbidities with connective
tissue disorders and I had aperiod of time where I was
hospitalized.
(18:29):
It was questionable about if Iwas going to be able to pull
through.
And I did and it took monthsand months and months of
recovery.
And I remember going to afollow-up visit with one of my
physicians and I've never feltweaker.
I couldn't even walk down thestairs.
It was a long recovery processand I just felt the weakest
(18:51):
version of myself I've ever feltin my entire life.
And I went to this follow-upappointment feeling like this,
like I could barely get all theair in to walk into the
appointment.
And I think she asked me how Iwas doing and I'm like I'm so
weak, I'm so exhausted and youknow I had all the real feedback
, but it was all kind ofnegative and she said well, of
course you are, but you're asurvivor, and I had never
(19:15):
thought of it that way.
She didn't see me as weak andbarely hanging on and barely
making it and lucky to be alive.
She just saw me as a survivorand I was like that was such a
gift that she said that to meand I really do think it helped
with my recovery, becauseanytime I was in that really low
(19:36):
point about it I'm like, yeah,but I'm a survivor, you know.
And so I think at that point Ididn't have enough in me to have
that self-talk.
So what a gift it was thatsomeone could breathe that
language into me to allow me tosee myself differently in a
challenging time.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Well, there's no doubt that this has shaped your
life in general, but how hasyour experience with this?
How has it informed yourleadership philosophy and your
approach to supporting others,you know, on your team, from a
professional perspective.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yeah, I think you know, before I gave that first
talk, it was intertwiningleadership lessons with lessons
I've learned from having ahidden disability, and HEDS is
often hidden because you canseem seemingly fine one day,
have braces another day, and soa lot of times it's not
something that's very outwardlynoticeable to others, so that's
(20:34):
why it's called a hiddendisability.
But I was actually on springbreak in the movie theater and I
could not stop thinking aboutthis.
All these overlaps because itwas raining.
So we're at the movies, allthese overlaps.
I could not stop thinking aboutit.
And we got back to the condowhere we were staying afterwards
.
The family time was over,everybody was doing their own
thing and I had committed tospeaking to this group in July
(20:55):
about leadership.
It was going to be a talk I hadgiven at NYU about I don't know
I think it was the C-suiteperspective on mission, vision
and values.
And I opened my phone and therewas an email from the person
that runs the group and she saidactually I had someone drop out
, could you speak?
I think it was like May 2nd orMay 3rd and I was like
interesting, because May is EDSAwareness Month.
It felt like a message, so Iwas praying about it because I'm
(21:18):
a person of faith.
And the next thing I did is Iopened up my LinkedIn and there
was this post from CraigRochelle that said something
like what if you made one boldmove for the kingdom of God?
And I was like, okay, I'm gonnaspeak May, in May.
So I committed to speaking inMay, but even then I still
didn't tell her what I was goingto talk about.
(21:39):
I just said, sure, I can do theMay day.
And then I continued to pray onit.
And then I asked her, I metwith her and I said you know, I
don't know if this is your, thisis your group, and I don't know
if intertwining personalexperiences with leadership
lessons is the vision for yourgroup and where you're headed.
And she said I love thatvulnerability, please do that.
So that's how that journeybegan.
(22:01):
That's a background just fromwhere I was seeing the overlaps.
But some of the main thingsthat I see overlaps in is, you
know, part of it is leading withcuriosity over judgment, and
not that you know, I'd like toassume positive intentions, so
I'm not assuming negativeintentions from anyone, but I've
received a lot of judgment overthe years, in particular before
(22:23):
I had my diagnosis.
That was not very helpful.
Things like overhearing aphysician in the hallway.
Tell my dad, I think she reallyjust doesn't want to play
college sports anymore.
She's probably just making thisup because she wants off the
team, which was not the case.
There was nothing I wanted morethan to keep playing.
You know I have lots of examples, and so one thing that I think
(22:44):
I always try to and we're alwayslearning and practicing
leadership, it's never done isto try to lead with that
curiosity over judgment, becausewe all make judgments.
We don't may not mean to, itmight not be on purpose, but it
all happens, no-transcript.
You can build that trust andrelationship and understand it
(23:05):
from someone else's perspective.
Then you can listen to listeninstead of listen to respond,
and you might learn somethingabout how to make that
relationship better.
What I mentioned before abouttaking feedback as data and
looking for the upgrades, that'svery applicable in leadership.
No one wants to be judged,blamed and shamed if everything
didn't go perfect.
But if you can be like, hey,let's examine the data, what
(23:27):
upgrades can we make?
Now that we have that feedback,people can be much more aligned
and then I think they're muchmore willing to come with their
own, like, hey, this didn't goas well as I was expecting.
Wonder, if we did this nexttime, how that would go.
So that's some of it.
Some other important pieces forme are adaptability, flexibility
and resilience.
(23:48):
So with EDS, you have toconstantly be adapting because
you're not having the chronicpain in the same spots.
The subluxations happen indifferent joints at different
times and you want to be anactive participant in your life.
So you got to figure out how tokeep going while still honoring
whatever rest and recovery youneed.
(24:10):
You have to build your own team.
This one has been a big one forme.
I've had so many physicaltherapists quit on me because I
wasn't improving in their timeframe.
That was allowable underinsurance and that would be so
very like I could have anemotional down spiral about that
.
Every time a physical therapistwould quit on me Because I
(24:32):
didn't quit on me and I justwanted a partner to journey with
.
So I had to reframe it of.
I choose my team and if youdon't want to be on it anymore,
no problem, I'm going to go findsomeone who will.
Now I'm not saying that's whatyou do with your team at work.
That's not what I mean by teambuilding, but at work you are
building your team of all thepeople in their areas of
(24:54):
strength.
So if I have a physicaltherapist quit on me, they're
not the right fit, so I need tofind someone else that can be
that area of strength.
And with EDS, especially whereI live, there are no EDS experts
within a reasonable drivingdistance.
So I have to build a team ofpeople who are curious and
willing to learn and journeywith me, who are not necessarily
(25:16):
an EDS expert in their field.
And I think, if we take thatapproach to our team, certainly
we want to hire experts.
We need experts in value, value, experience and responsibility
and commitment and loyalty andall of those things.
But we also want teams that aregoing to listen, be curious,
figure things out together,build bonds, deliver for each
(25:38):
other and the customers.
So that's what I mean by teambuilding.
And then the other piece thatcomes to mind for me is
self-care.
And then the other piece thatcomes to mind for me is
self-care, and I don't know justabout anyone who hasn't said to
me I think I've brushed upagainst the edge of burnout in
my career.
Or if you haven't, you know itmight be coming.
I think we all get to thatpoint where burnout is a real
(26:02):
thing and it certainly was forme and I think self-care with
EDS looks one way and self-careis also really important in
leadership and in the workplaceHaving our healthy boundaries
and communicating well andbuilding that alignment and
clarity for the team.
So those are some of the areaswhere I've seen a lot of overlap
(26:23):
between leadership and lessonslearned, I guess from my
perspective on AGDS.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Okay, you know the routine.
This is where I hit the pausebutton.
I hope you enjoyed part one ofLead Beyond Resilience Arriving
with a Hidden Disability with myamazing guest, jennifer Koster.
Make sure to come back nextweek.
You are not going to want tomiss the second part of this
really powerful conversation,where we dive deeper into how
fate has shaped Jennifer'sjourney.
We explore the surprisingleadership lessons from living
(26:51):
with a hidden disability anddiscover what the EDS community
can teach all of us aboutresilience.
Jennifer shares vulnerableinsights about overcoming
internalized ableism and offerspractical wisdom on building
supportive communities in bothpersonal and professional
settings.
So make sure to check back nextweek as we continue this
inspiring conversation aboutleading beyond limits.
(27:17):
Thank you so much for listeningand for being here on this
journey with me.
I hope you'll stick around Ifyou liked this episode.
It would mean the world for meif you would rate and review the
podcast or share it withsomeone you know Many need to
hear this message.
I love to hear from you all andwant you to know that you can
leave me a voicemail directly.
If you go to my website,evokegreatnesscom, and go to the
Contact Me tab, you'll just hitthe big old orange button and
(27:39):
record your message.
I love the feedback andcomments that I've been getting,
so please keep them coming.
I'll leave you with the wisewords of author Robin Sharma
Greatness comes by doing a fewsmall and smart things each and
every day.
It comes from taking littlesteps consistently.
It comes from making a fewsmall chips against everything
(28:02):
in your professional andpersonal life that is ordinary,
so that a day eventually arriveswhen all that's left is the
extraordinary.
Welcome to Evoke Greatness.
We are officially entering yearthree of this podcast and I am
filled with so much gratitudefor each and every one of you
who've joined me on thisincredible journey of growth and
self-discovery.
I'm Sunny, your host and fellowtraveler on this path of
personal evolution.
This podcast is a sanctuary forthe curious, the ambitious and
(00:28):
the introspective.
It's for those of you who, likeme, are captivated by the
champion mindset and driven byan insatiable hunger for growth
and knowledge.
Whether you're just beginningyour journey or you're well
along your path, you're going tofind stories here that resonate
with your experiences andaspirations.
Over the last two years, we'veshared countless stories of
triumph and challenge, ofresilience and transformation.
(00:51):
We've laughed, we've reflectedand we've grown together.
And as we've evolved, so toohas this podcast.
Remember, no matter whatchapter you're on in your own
story, you belong here.
This community we've builttogether is a place of support,
inspiration and shared growth.
Where intention goes, energyflows, and the energy you bring
(01:13):
to this space elevates us all.
So, whether you're listeningwhile commuting, working out or
enjoying your morning coffee,perhaps from one of those
motivational mugs I'm so fond of, know that you're a part of
something special.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for your curiosity,your openness and your
commitment to personal growth.
As we embark on year three, Iinvite you to lean in, to listen
(01:36):
deeply and to let these storiesresonate with your soul.
I believe that a rising tideraises all ships and I invite
you along in this journey toevoke greatness.
(01:56):
Welcome back to another episodeof Evoke Greatness, the podcast
where we explore resilience,leadership and the power of
human spirit.
Today, I'm excited to welcomemy guest, jennifer Koster, a
woman who embodies the veryessence of what it means to lead
beyond limits.
Jennifer has lived with HEDS, aconnective tissue disorder, her
entire life, yet it took 30years to receive a proper
(02:17):
diagnosis.
Since receiving that diagnosisin April of 2022, she has
transformed her personalchallenge into a mission of
awareness and advocacy.
Our conversation today is goingto explore her journey from
diagnosis to becoming a powerfulvoice in the EDS community, her
perspective on leadershipthrough the lens of a hidden
disability and how embracing ourchallenges can become our
(02:40):
greatest source of strength.
As May is EDS Awareness Month,we're also going to discuss her
evolution from making a singleLinkedIn post in 2022 to going
all in with public speaking andawareness campaigns, with plans
to feature fellow zebras, thesymbol of the EDS community in
2025.
Her talk Lead Beyond Limits.
Resilience Through the Lens ofa Hidden Disability has inspired
(03:02):
many to reframe their ownchallenges and recognize the
unique strengths that emergefrom adversity.
So join us for this powerfulconversation about resilience,
overcoming internalized ableismand finding purpose through
personal struggle.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Jennifer, welcome to the show.
Well, thank you so much forhaving me.
I'm very glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Absolutely Well, I'm excited to hop in and just
really explore more of yourstory.
I always like to kick it offand have you share some of your
story that paved the way to kindof life as it looks like today.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, so when it comes to the journey to receive
an HEDS diagnosis, I think itreally stood out to me once I
was in college.
I was a college athlete, I wasplaying tennis collegiately and
I was constantly having what Inow know to be subluxations,
tendon tears, ligament tears.
(03:54):
But at the time when you'reyoung and you're playing sports,
you know you're just like,patch me up and let's go Like we
have things to do.
And I remember we were trainingin Florida and I was a freshman
at the time and the seniorsgave all of the freshmen
nicknames.
Now this wasn't like hazing oranything like that, it was all
in love and it was all fun.
(04:14):
But they nicknamed me fragilebecause the coach was always
having to tape my ankles.
I was dealing with tennis elbow, I would have a shoulder that
was giving me problems and youknow you kind of just started to
think I'm a little bit unlucky,Like these injuries keep just
occurring.
And then, as I went on throughthat, you know, young adulthood,
(04:35):
I got a lot of other healthchallenges and concerns.
I was going from physician tophysician trying to find answers
.
People really weren't findingany succinct answers and so that
was frustrating, almost makesyou feel like you know, do they
believe me what's going on?
And so there were times where Iwould more aggressively try to
(05:01):
advocate and seek some type ofanswers or diagnosis.
And there were other timeswhere I just had to completely
take a break from it and justmore just manage symptoms,
because I just couldn't have mywhole life be about seeking, and
maybe that's why I think theaverage time to get a diagnosis
is 10 to 12 years.
So I always joke like I'm soabove average because it took me
(05:24):
30 years.
This is 10 to 12 years, so Ialways joke like I'm so above
average because it took me 30years, which is not an area of
my life where I wanted to beabove average, but maybe it was
because I took those breaks ofnot seeking.
But I'm really thankful that Istarted looking again in 2021-22
.
And I was able to go to Yale fortheir executive health program
(05:49):
where I was able to see theirhead, cardiologist, rheumatology
, genetics, physical medicine,physical therapy and take this
really collaborative approach.
And there was a lot of preparingfor it, lots of tests and what
I call the endlessness of pokingand prodding that is life with
EDS all ahead of time butultimately resulted in that
(06:11):
diagnosis when I left there, Ihad it, you know, car ride home
and I would say that my reactionto that was lots of emotions,
there were tears, but there wasalso just like a lot of relief
that there was something thatmade sense to me and explained
so much and that's been aresounding thread in everyone
(06:33):
I've talked to with EDS thatonce they got a diagnosis there
was this sense of relief becauseknowledge and naming something
there's power, in that there'sbetter health outcomes, in that
there's better mental healthaspects of that.
And that was just.
I'm very thankful that I hadthe opportunity to go to Yale
(06:56):
and kind of take a turn, albeita little bit late in life, still
very impactful.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Yeah, I'm curious.
So you talked a bit about likewhen you were an athlete and
these injuries that you weresustaining, that were that
really had no explanation tothem.
Did those types of injuriescontinue to occur?
You know, as you went later onin your into your adulthood?
It sounds like pain, maybe alot of the symptom that you're
navigating as well.
(07:22):
Did those things follow youthroughout?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yes, absolutely, and for me they got progressively
worse.
That's not everyone's storywith EDS.
I mean, you mentioned in theintro about the zebra being kind
of the representation for thosein the EDS community and they
say, like, just like, everyzebra has unique stripes, right,
if you've met one person withEDS, you've met one person.
So that's not the story and Idon't want to spread any fear,
(07:46):
but for me it did getprogressively worse.
I mean, and I think the biggestthing with it is kind of a
grieving process.
So over time, okay, I can nolonger be an athlete, okay,
that's okay.
And then now I can no longerwalk even a mile and now I can
no longer do things to help takecare of my children physically
or I had to do a lot of adaptivethings and back when my
(08:08):
children were young I didn'thave a diagnosis.
So you know, things likegetting them in and out of the
car seat were really, reallychallenging and we had to come
up with like, how are you goingto use your knee and like, like
all these adjustments and howcan, once the kids are old
enough, how can, how can theyhelp and be a part of it?
So there is a lot ofadaptability and resilience,
just in kind of figuring out howto do life with these physical
(08:32):
challenges.
And then I think, over timethere is a grieving process of
okay, now my circumstance ischanging again, and is this just
for a period of time or is thisa new normal?
And we're not sure, and youdon't know.
And so there's some of thosemental resilience too in how are
(08:54):
we going to approach thesethings?
And it's a balance.
I mean, you need to have yourtimes to be angry or cry or
whatever, but how long do youwant to be in that down spiral?
And what can you shift in yourthinking or mindset to obviously
honor and give yourself thespace to do that, because all
the emotions are there for areason.
But then what are you going todo next?
(09:16):
And that's been some of thethings I've learned to do over
the years.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Well and you, having lived with these symptoms for 30
years before the diagnosis.
Some people think, or mightthink, of a diagnosis as a
limitation, but you framed it asthis pathway to resilience.
What do you think helped youreframe the way that you view
this?
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Well, definitely, having the diagnosis once it
kind of sinks in and you workthrough some of the emotions.
One of the biggest things isyou can build your tribe, like
we all need community.
And now I actually have friendswho have EDS and you know it's
great to have all sorts ofcommunity your family, loved
ones, friends, co-workers,partners but when you have
(09:59):
someone in your community thatknows your lived experience or
something very similar to yourlived experience, they kind of
just get you and it's just sonice to have a place where, like
, okay, this person just gets me.
I don't think she would mindsharing.
But the other day Christinatexted me a picture of her
freezer and said it just dawnedon me that this is life with EDS
(10:21):
and the only thing that was inthere were all ice packs of like
for wrapping around your ankleor the kind that go around your
arm or, and it's like, oh yes,and I'm looking, I'm like I have
that one, I have that one.
So there's just there'ssomething nice about having your
tribe of people.
It also just is empowering,because now you have more
(10:41):
information, now you can learnthings that you didn't know, and
so, in addition to theconnection, there's just
actually better healthcareoutcomes.
It helps your physicians.
Now they know already going inright, so they don't know what
they don't know.
And all the physicians I sawover the years I have no doubt
that every one of them wouldhave loved to have helped me get
(11:04):
to a diagnosis, but they didn'tknow what they didn't know or I
wasn't presenting in a way thatwas easily to put that together
, which is obviously why, if theaverage is 10 to 12 years, that
I'm not the only one with thatexperience.
So I think reframing it forempowerment I think your
question was about the reframe.
That's how it's been for me andI might share one story with
(11:28):
you about a gift that my songave me.
So we were on a date.
He might call it forced familyfun.
It is required.
So we were on a date and Ithink we went to a coffee shop
and afterwards he said and hewas, I think he was 17 at the
time he said, hey, can we stopat the store?
I want to pick up something formy girlfriend.
(11:48):
I said yeah, and I drove upthere and I dropped him off and
he's like aren't you going tocome in?
This looks like a store thatyou would be interested in.
I said, oh like, look, honey,like the parking lot's full, I'm
going to have to park way outthere.
I don't know how long you wantto look around.
I don't want you to feel rushed.
I'm not sure I'm feeling up tostanding that long.
(12:08):
It's no problem, I'll like havemy coffee.
You take your time, I'll pickyou up.
Great, that's what we did.
So he actually walked back tothe car and before we left he
said can I tell you something?
And you promised not to get mad.
And you know, I think feedbackis a gift, but when you have
teenage sons, I wasn't quitesure what he was going to say
and I think I said somethinglike that depends if it's mean
(12:29):
or stupid, but hit me up.
And he said have you everthought about getting a
disability placard for your car?
And I was like immediately.
I was like honey, that's not.
That's for people who have alot more mobility challenges
than me.
And he said okay, maybe it'sjust something you want to think
about than me.
And he said okay, maybe it'sjust something you want to think
about.
And I thought about it and Idecided well, I don't decide,
(12:50):
the doctor decides.
I'll just ask them.
And she said absolutely, youqualify, I would 100% give you
one of those.
And so then I got it.
But then I didn't want to useit, and if I did use it, I felt
bad about using it.
And I talked to this reallygreat coach that I have about it
and she said well, you need amantra for when you use it like
(13:12):
a reframe.
And so I decided that everytime I used it, I would say I'm
empowered for independence,because my son's complaint was
this vision that I would be amore active participant in his
life and my own.
And that's the gift he gave me,because now I go to volleyball
(13:32):
matches by myself.
I wouldn't have gone before ifsomeone couldn't drop me off at
the door.
I can do things thatindependently that I wouldn't
have done before and I don'tfeel bad about using it when I
need it now, because I'mempowered for independence was
my reframe, and so that's anexample of you might not know an
(13:55):
immediate reframe in your ownlife, but you could think on it
and you could shift somethingfor yourself, I love that and
what keeps coming to my mindimmediately as you began sharing
, was you had a choice to make.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
There was two choices you could make.
That choice was to figure outhow to frame it in a different
light so that you could actuallyprocess through and navigate
the emotions.
You know, as you mentioned,grief, that's a real thing, and
there was a choice in there andyou chose to navigate that in a
way where it wasn't going to besomething.
Although I'm sure there weremany of days that felt dark,
(14:36):
overall you made a choice thatthat wasn't going to be a dark
cloud over your entire life, andI think that is your
intentionality around.
That I commend, because itwould have been very easy for
that, for you to have looked atit a different way, where it
became even more debilitatingthan it already was, and so I
love that you use the wordempower, like empowering your
(14:58):
independence, because, thoughyou may not be able to park way
out in the parking lot, you canstill do the things because
you're choosing, like you'rechoosing the path to navigate it
in the most positive way youcan.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yeah, and I think now I ask myself more questions.
I definitely use the questionwhat if?
All the time.
So if I'm having some limitingbelief, like I couldn't possibly
go be a speaker at the NAAconference in Las Vegas, that's
way too much for me Then I'llsay what if I could?
(15:31):
What would that look like?
What would have to happen?
What would I need to dodifferent?
What accommodations would Ineed?
And actually this friend,Christina, that I mentioned, I
often think about her becausesometimes, if I don't feel
motivated enough to ask what ifof myself, I'll think well, what
would Christina say?
And she would usually say well,are you sure you can't do that?
(15:53):
Because maybe there's a way youcan.
And so it gets you thinkingabout new opportunities.
And we talk a lot in coachingabout making the upgrades.
So if feedback is just datayour own self-judgments or
feedback from others is justdata, then you don't have to be
defensive, you don't have tofeel blamed or shamed, and you
(16:14):
can think offensive.
You don't have to feel blamedor shamed and you can think okay
, if that's the data that I have, what's the upgrade I could
make?
And maybe the answer is no.
I'm going to say no to that Iam not.
It is not worth the risk to meto do that and that's fine.
Or maybe you'll say yes, andthen you'll collect the data and
think, okay, I won't be doingit that way again.
Or maybe you'll collect thedata and think that was
(16:35):
fantastic.
But I've had to learn not tohave a lot of self-blame,
self-ableism and shame around it.
Even changing the languagehelps.
Like I used to say, oh, I hurtmyself when one of these things
would happen, but I didn't hurtmyself.
I became injured because of mycondition, so I don't use that
(16:57):
language anymore.
I try to use different languagearound it.
So those are some of the thingsthat I'm still on the journey
of learning.
It's not like I have this allfigured out, but I have
community now, which helps,because now we can journey
together and not be alone.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah, Our language.
I think what we, as kind ofmankind, forget is that our
brains are so powerful that theylisten to what we're saying,
and so the language, to yourpoint, is so important because
our brain believes what we'resaying repeatedly, and so for us
(17:31):
to you know, it goes back tothe whole neuroplasticity thing,
right, like we train our brain.
But we can actually untrain ourbrain or train our brain to
think and view thingsdifferently, and so that's a
perfect example of that ofsaying, okay, I need to be aware
of the language that I'm usingbecause of how that it shows up
for me, how it's making me feel,and I need to identify it
correctly, because it's not youthat's doing this to yourself.
(17:53):
I really love that.
Like I think people don'tunderstand how powerful our
words and our language are, anduntil maybe we're in a situation
like that where, if we justflip how we're framing it or how
we're saying it, it makes uslook at it completely different.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, I totally agree , and I also think that there's
an opportunity to breathelanguage into others.
So it can go both ways.
It can go for ourselves and itcan also go come from others.
And there's a lot ofcomorbidities with connective
tissue disorders and I had aperiod of time where I was
hospitalized.
(18:29):
It was questionable about if Iwas going to be able to pull
through.
And I did and it took monthsand months and months of
recovery.
And I remember going to afollow-up visit with one of my
physicians and I've never feltweaker.
I couldn't even walk down thestairs.
It was a long recovery processand I just felt the weakest
(18:51):
version of myself I've ever feltin my entire life.
And I went to this follow-upappointment feeling like this,
like I could barely get all theair in to walk into the
appointment.
And I think she asked me how Iwas doing and I'm like I'm so
weak, I'm so exhausted and youknow I had all the real feedback
, but it was all kind ofnegative and she said well, of
course you are, but you're asurvivor, and I had never
(19:15):
thought of it that way.
She didn't see me as weak andbarely hanging on and barely
making it and lucky to be alive.
She just saw me as a survivorand I was like that was such a
gift that she said that to meand I really do think it helped
with my recovery, becauseanytime I was in that really low
(19:36):
point about it I'm like, yeah,but I'm a survivor, you know.
And so I think at that point Ididn't have enough in me to have
that self-talk.
So what a gift it was thatsomeone could breathe that
language into me to allow me tosee myself differently in a
challenging time.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Well, there's no doubt that this has shaped your
life in general, but how hasyour experience with this?
How has it informed yourleadership philosophy and your
approach to supporting others,you know, on your team, from a
professional perspective.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yeah, I think you know, before I gave that first
talk, it was intertwiningleadership lessons with lessons
I've learned from having ahidden disability, and HEDS is
often hidden because you canseem seemingly fine one day,
have braces another day, and soa lot of times it's not
something that's very outwardlynoticeable to others, so that's
(20:34):
why it's called a hiddendisability.
But I was actually on springbreak in the movie theater and I
could not stop thinking aboutthis.
All these overlaps because itwas raining.
So we're at the movies, allthese overlaps.
I could not stop thinking aboutit.
And we got back to the condowhere we were staying afterwards
.
The family time was over,everybody was doing their own
thing and I had committed tospeaking to this group in July
(20:55):
about leadership.
It was going to be a talk I hadgiven at NYU about I don't know
I think it was the C-suiteperspective on mission, vision
and values.
And I opened my phone and therewas an email from the person
that runs the group and she saidactually I had someone drop out
, could you speak?
I think it was like May 2nd orMay 3rd and I was like
interesting, because May is EDSAwareness Month.
It felt like a message, so Iwas praying about it because I'm
(21:18):
a person of faith.
And the next thing I did is Iopened up my LinkedIn and there
was this post from CraigRochelle that said something
like what if you made one boldmove for the kingdom of God?
And I was like, okay, I'm gonnaspeak May, in May.
So I committed to speaking inMay, but even then I still
didn't tell her what I was goingto talk about.
(21:39):
I just said, sure, I can do theMay day.
And then I continued to pray onit.
And then I asked her, I metwith her and I said you know, I
don't know if this is your, thisis your group, and I don't know
if intertwining personalexperiences with leadership
lessons is the vision for yourgroup and where you're headed.
And she said I love thatvulnerability, please do that.
So that's how that journeybegan.
(22:01):
That's a background just fromwhere I was seeing the overlaps.
But some of the main thingsthat I see overlaps in is, you
know, part of it is leading withcuriosity over judgment, and
not that you know, I'd like toassume positive intentions, so
I'm not assuming negativeintentions from anyone, but I've
received a lot of judgment overthe years, in particular before
(22:23):
I had my diagnosis.
That was not very helpful.
Things like overhearing aphysician in the hallway.
Tell my dad, I think she reallyjust doesn't want to play
college sports anymore.
She's probably just making thisup because she wants off the
team, which was not the case.
There was nothing I wanted morethan to keep playing.
You know I have lots of examples, and so one thing that I think
(22:44):
I always try to and we're alwayslearning and practicing
leadership, it's never done isto try to lead with that
curiosity over judgment, becausewe all make judgments.
We don't may not mean to, itmight not be on purpose, but it
all happens, no-transcript.
You can build that trust andrelationship and understand it
(23:05):
from someone else's perspective.
Then you can listen to listeninstead of listen to respond,
and you might learn somethingabout how to make that
relationship better.
What I mentioned before abouttaking feedback as data and
looking for the upgrades, that'svery applicable in leadership.
No one wants to be judged,blamed and shamed if everything
didn't go perfect.
But if you can be like, hey,let's examine the data, what
(23:27):
upgrades can we make?
Now that we have that feedback,people can be much more aligned
and then I think they're muchmore willing to come with their
own, like, hey, this didn't goas well as I was expecting.
Wonder, if we did this nexttime, how that would go.
So that's some of it.
Some other important pieces forme are adaptability, flexibility
and resilience.
(23:48):
So with EDS, you have toconstantly be adapting because
you're not having the chronicpain in the same spots.
The subluxations happen indifferent joints at different
times and you want to be anactive participant in your life.
So you got to figure out how tokeep going while still honoring
whatever rest and recovery youneed.
(24:10):
You have to build your own team.
This one has been a big one forme.
I've had so many physicaltherapists quit on me because I
wasn't improving in their timeframe.
That was allowable underinsurance and that would be so
very like I could have anemotional down spiral about that
.
Every time a physical therapistwould quit on me Because I
(24:32):
didn't quit on me and I justwanted a partner to journey with
.
So I had to reframe it of.
I choose my team and if youdon't want to be on it anymore,
no problem, I'm going to go findsomeone who will.
Now I'm not saying that's whatyou do with your team at work.
That's not what I mean by teambuilding, but at work you are
building your team of all thepeople in their areas of
(24:54):
strength.
So if I have a physicaltherapist quit on me, they're
not the right fit, so I need tofind someone else that can be
that area of strength.
And with EDS, especially whereI live, there are no EDS experts
within a reasonable drivingdistance.
So I have to build a team ofpeople who are curious and
willing to learn and journeywith me, who are not necessarily
(25:16):
an EDS expert in their field.
And I think, if we take thatapproach to our team, certainly
we want to hire experts.
We need experts in value, value, experience and responsibility
and commitment and loyalty andall of those things.
But we also want teams that aregoing to listen, be curious,
figure things out together,build bonds, deliver for each
(25:38):
other and the customers.
So that's what I mean by teambuilding.
And then the other piece thatcomes to mind for me is
self-care.
And then the other piece thatcomes to mind for me is
self-care, and I don't know justabout anyone who hasn't said to
me I think I've brushed upagainst the edge of burnout in
my career.
Or if you haven't, you know itmight be coming.
I think we all get to thatpoint where burnout is a real
(26:02):
thing and it certainly was forme and I think self-care with
EDS looks one way and self-careis also really important in
leadership and in the workplaceHaving our healthy boundaries
and communicating well andbuilding that alignment and
clarity for the team.
So those are some of the areaswhere I've seen a lot of overlap
(26:23):
between leadership and lessonslearned, I guess from my
perspective on AGDS.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Okay, you know the routine.
This is where I hit the pausebutton.
I hope you enjoyed part one ofLead Beyond Resilience Arriving
with a Hidden Disability with myamazing guest, jennifer Koster.
Make sure to come back nextweek.
You are not going to want tomiss the second part of this
really powerful conversation,where we dive deeper into how
fate has shaped Jennifer'sjourney.
We explore the surprisingleadership lessons from living
(26:51):
with a hidden disability anddiscover what the EDS community
can teach all of us aboutresilience.
Jennifer shares vulnerableinsights about overcoming
internalized ableism and offerspractical wisdom on building
supportive communities in bothpersonal and professional
settings.
So make sure to check back nextweek as we continue this
inspiring conversation aboutleading beyond limits.
(27:17):
Thank you so much for listeningand for being here on this
journey with me.
I hope you'll stick around Ifyou liked this episode.
It would mean the world for meif you would rate and review the
podcast or share it withsomeone you know Many need to
hear this message.
I love to hear from you all andwant you to know that you can
leave me a voicemail directly.
If you go to my website,evokegreatnesscom, and go to the
Contact Me tab, you'll just hitthe big old orange button and
(27:39):
record your message.
I love the feedback andcomments that I've been getting,
so please keep them coming.
I'll leave you with the wisewords of author Robin Sharma
Greatness comes by doing a fewsmall and smart things each and
every day.
It comes from taking littlesteps consistently.
It comes from making a fewsmall chips against everything
(28:02):
in your professional andpersonal life that is ordinary,
so that a day eventually arriveswhen all that's left is the
extraordinary.
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