May 13, 2025 • 21 mins
🎧 Episode 164: Lead Beyond Limits: Thriving with a Hidden Disability with Jennifer Koster (Part 2)
In this second part of our conversation with Jennifer Koster, we talk through the deeper spiritual dimensions of her journey with HEDS and how her experiences have shaped her approach to leadership, vulnerability, and community. Jennifer shares powerful insights about overcoming internalized ableism and offers wisdom that extends far beyond those living with chronic conditions.
We explore:
- The integral role of faith during both challenging and good times
- The importance of not underestimating yourself or your team
- Balancing energy management with ambitious goals
- The power of vulnerability as a leadership tool
- Recognizing and addressing internalized ableism
- Building supportive communities that understand practical needs
- Leaving a meaningful legacy through presence and service
🔑 Key takeaways:
- Sometimes we experience the most growth in our faith during the most difficult times
- Leaders often underestimate both themselves and their teams - limiting vision limits possibilities
- Energy management requires clarity about vision and values to know when to say "no"
- Vulnerability might feel uncomfortable but can be a powerful tool for connection
- Addressing internalized ableism starts with identifying limiting beliefs and replacing them with empowering ones
- Support comes in many forms - practical help can be just as valuable as emotional encouragement
💡 Quotes to remember:
"Sometimes I listen to my body and sometimes I tell it because if I listened all the time I wouldn't be making any progress toward any goals." - Jennifer Koster
"Don't underestimate what you're capable of." - Jennifer Koster
"We're built for community. We're built to be there for one another and try our best to understand and have a sense of belonging for people." - Jennifer Koster
"My disability can't be thought away... I can't just wish my disability away. I can't take a vacation from it... it's always there as an undercurrent and all of us have undercurrents." - Jennifer Koster
🌟 Featured Insights:
- The transformative power of reframing limiting beliefs
- How the EDS community demonstrates exceptional resilience
- The importance of showing up for others even when you don't know what to say
- Finding purpose through connecting leadership principles with personal challenges
- Balancing practical and emotional support for those facing difficulties
📚 Wisdom to Remember: Focus your vision beyond the day-to-day struggles, love yourself and others, and build your community. If we leave our family, workplace, faith community, and friends better because of our presence, we create a lasting legacy.
A rising tide raises all ships, and I invite you along on this journey to Evoke Greatness!
Check out my website: www.evokegreatness.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Evoke Greatness.
We are officially entering yearthree of this podcast and I am
filled with so much gratitudefor each and every one of you
who've joined me on thisincredible journey of growth and
self-discovery.
I'm Sunny, your host and fellowtraveler on this path of
personal evolution.
This podcast is a sanctuary forthe curious, the ambitious and
(00:28):
the introspective.
It's for those of you who, likeme, are captivated by the
champion mindset and driven byan insatiable hunger for growth
and knowledge.
Whether you're just beginningyour journey or you're well
along your path, you're going tofind stories here that resonate
with your experiences andaspirations.
Over the last two years, we'veshared countless stories of
triumph and challenge, ofresilience and transformation.
(00:51):
We've laughed, we've reflectedand we've grown together.
And as we've evolved, so toohas this podcast.
Remember, no matter whatchapter you're on in your own
story, you belong here.
This community we've builttogether is a place of support,
inspiration and shared growth.
Where intention goes, energyflows, and the energy you bring
(01:13):
to this space elevates us all.
So, whether you're listeningwhile commuting, working out or
enjoying your morning coffee,perhaps from one of those
motivational mugs I'm so fond of, know that you're a part of
something special.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for your curiosity,your openness and your
commitment to personal growth.
As we embark on year three, Iinvite you to lean in, to listen
(01:36):
deeply and to let these storiesresonate with your soul.
I believe that a rising tideraises all ships and I invite
you along in this journey toevoke greatness.
(01:57):
Welcome back to Part 2 of LeadBeyond Limits with my guest,
jennifer Koster.
In Part 1, we explored howJennifer's 30-year journey with
HEDS taught her that a diagnosiscan be empowering rather than
limiting, providing validationand community.
She taught us how intentionallyreframing challenges transforms
our relationships with them andhow the language we use
(02:18):
dramatically shifts ourperspective on disabilities.
Jennifer also shared herpractice of asking what if?
To open up new possibilitiesbeyond perceived limitations,
and revealed how living with ahidden disability cultivates
unique leadership qualities,including adaptability,
resilience and authentic teambuilding.
(02:38):
Now, in part two, we're going todive deeper with Jennifer into
her spiritual journey, herapproach to vulnerability and
the powerful wisdom the EDScommunity offers about
overcoming life's challenges.
So if you haven't listened topart one, go back and give that
one a listen.
Okay, let's hop into part twoand I want to pull in a thread
of something you said aroundyour faith and you and I really
(03:00):
met in a LinkedIn Bible studygroup.
Our good buddy, mitch Sugg, puton and grabbed this group of
followers and put us in thisBible study that we would get on
and we'd have these video callsand kind of talk through
something that he created for aBible study.
And so I know this.
But I'm curious, as you thinkabout all you've navigated how
(03:22):
has your faith been a tool, aninstrument for you in the hard
times, but in the good times, inthe, in the challenging times?
Speaker 2 (03:31):
But I think I've experienced the most growth in
my faith and the mostsurrendering of self and only to
Jesus in the most difficult oftimes.
(03:52):
And so in that regards, are thechallenges part of the blessing
, and we actually met in theBible study that was on the book
of James Sunny, and the book ofJames is my favorite book in
the Bible and there's theseverses about like a reflection
(04:13):
pool of becoming less like youand more like Jesus through a
refining process, and that's howI feel about the challenges.
It's like okay, god, thank youfor reminding me again.
I'm going to try to be gratefulin all circumstances, even
though I guarantee you I am notgrateful for all circumstances.
I am not.
And whatever the process needsto be more like you and less
(04:34):
like me.
That is scary, but I will right, let's do it, and I try to
carry those moments of just allthe praise reports in the good
times and the blessings.
But there has been a largeamount of growth in my faith
during the challenging times andwhen I was having that health
(04:54):
incident I was discussingearlier, I had a colleague at a
different organization who wasgoing through a cancer journey
and I was spending some timetalking with her.
She's like you know there'snothing like being taken out of
work like this and not beingable to do a lot and having a
lot of free time on your hands.
That you know brings you closerto the Lord, because this is
(05:17):
what you're doing and you'rereading the Bible, you're
praying, you're in community,you're basically at the time.
For me, I was definitely areceiver.
We had so many people incommunity come around us and it
wasn't a time where I was givingback.
It was a time of receiving, andI think you know that's a gift
both ways, because it's a giftto the person who's blessed,
(05:39):
who's giving and also receiving,and it was just a time of real
growth and reflection for me.
So am I far enough along in myjourney that I can say thank
goodness that happened?
I do see aspects of it as ablessing.
I still struggle sometimes withthe challenge parts, but I
often think I'm not sure how Iwould have done it if I didn't
(06:00):
have faith in a faith community,because it's been so important
for me.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, thank you for sharing that In your talk.
Lead Beyond Limits.
You connect that hiddendisability with leadership
resilience.
What do you think are the mostimportant lessons other leaders
can learn from your journey ofand?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
there is this I've worked with Novus Global and or
a company out in LA for coaching, and they have a book out by
Jason Jaggard and the coaches atNovus Global called Beyond High
Performance, and they say thatthe top two biggest leadership
(06:41):
challenges are that leadersunderestimate themselves and
underestimate their teams.
Basically, we have thisintuitive fence that we think is
a fact.
And if we're in the middle ofthis fence, we're this intuitive
fence that we think is a factand if we're in the middle of
this fence, we're in our comfortzone.
And to go be on that fence, youhave to really think about what
is a thrilling vision foryourself and your life and who
(07:02):
would you need to become toreach that.
And don't underestimate that,don't underestimate yourself or
your team, underestimate that.
Don't underestimate yourself oryour team, because as a leader,
your fence kind of limits whatyour team, how your team, can
expand that.
So where your vision is limited, it'd be really hard for the
team to go beyond the limit ofyour own intuitive fence.
(07:25):
So definitely notunderestimating what is possible
.
And then once you start seeingthings that you previously
thought were impossible arehappening, it's like well, what
else?
Right, like what else couldthere be and that's a beautiful
place to live in.
And if there's a closed door,great, that must mean something
(07:47):
else is out there.
That doesn't mean the end,right.
So I've really appreciatedthose vision conversations and
part of going beyond yourintuitive fence as to what you
think is possible.
It helps get those around youthinking what's possible.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, I think many people with chronic conditions
often talk about having toreally carefully manage their
energy.
You know, and when you thinkabout what you have to do on a
day-to-day basis, how has thisnecessity influenced you in how
you approach goals andpriorities across all areas of
your life?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, the energy is a great question and it's so true
.
And I've said I definitelybelieve in self-care and
listening to your body.
But just for me personally withEDS, what I say is sometimes I
listen to my body and sometimesI tell it, because if I listened
all the time I wouldn't bemaking any progress toward any
(08:40):
goals.
So that's a personal.
I definitely am a believer oflistening and self-care.
So I'm not trying to tellanyone who's doing that that
that's not right, but just forme, sometimes I have to tell it.
So sleep is a big can be a bigchallenge for me, and so there
are days where sleep hasconsistently not been
restorative and there might be aday where, okay, then I need to
(09:00):
listen and be okay withrescheduling some things.
And then there might be othertimes where you know what I'm
going to have to push throughand the body's going to give up
eventually and it's going tosleep.
And knowing that from pastexperience for me personally
gives a little bit less anxietyover the sleepless nights
because I know I'm going to getback to a sleep routine.
(09:22):
But managing the energy isparamount.
So being clear on your visionand saying no to things that
aren't in alignment with yourvision or your values helps with
the energy management.
And once you're clear on visionand your values like for me if
(09:42):
it's faith and family and makingan impact through work and
leadership once you're clear onthose things and friendships,
then you can say no to thethings that aren't in alignment
with the vision, knowing thatyou have to manage your energy
and everyone has to manage theirenergy.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah, how has your experience changed the way you
view vulnerability, both inpersonal and professional
settings?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Well, it's changed a lot.
I don't know if it's changed somuch how I view it as a
superpower.
I'm not super confident indoing it myself.
I wouldn't view it as my ownsuperpower, but I feel like I've
been called to it and I'mtrying to walk in that obedience
.
And it is still uncomfortablefor me Three years later of
doing this.
(10:28):
I'm nervous to be sharing mystory here, but it has made an
impact and when I have shared Ifeel like you know it's nice
when people give positivefeedback so great People have
told me that's really resonatedwith me, that's been impactful
for me and that's so wonderfulto hear.
And then also, if it helpsanyone else feel comfortable to
(10:52):
share their own stories.
I mean, I'm a big connector andI just feel like we connect
over stories.
We're built for community.
We're built to be there for oneanother and tried our best to
understand and have a sense ofbelonging for people.
So if it helps others sharetheir stories so they can more
fully feel like they can bringtheir whole self to life and to
(11:14):
work, where they don't have tomask who they are or change
things about themselves to makeother people feel more
comfortable, then I think that'sa win and I've appreciated that
when others have led withvulnerability, and I'm still
learning to take up thechallenge of it.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Well, and I think, even as you take on the
challenge of that, you'remirroring that to others who may
be even seeing it as more of achallenge from their perspective
.
And I think that, again, likethat's that gift, like you had
talked about earlier, thatsometimes things that we're
working on as we start to buildthat muscle, we're showing
somebody else who isn't quitewhere we are, that it's possible
(11:52):
as well.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Yeah, that's absolutely right, and I love
that you use the analogy ofbuilding the muscle, because we
talk a lot about, like liftingthe weights, of getting
comfortable, being uncomfortable, because nobody's great at
something the first time they dosomething like that's where all
(12:17):
these new possibilities, youknow, come about in your vision
and you see things as morepossible Right.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
You touched on internalized ableism in your
presentations and in your talk.
How has recognizing andaddressing this changed your
relationship with yourself andyour capabilities?
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah, I didn't even know the term self-ableism
before I got my diagnosis, sothat's how uninformed I was.
But once I learned more aboutit I was like, oh my goodness, I
am making these self-judgmentsleft and right.
And I did this exercise with mycoach where I wrote down I have
a note in my phone of all mylimiting beliefs like just like,
(12:58):
lay them out there Things like,if I'm struggling with EDS, I
can't be a good wife, mother orcoworker, I'll be a burden to
other people.
You know all the things that,for me, ended up with I'm just
not worthy and didn't evenrealize that that was kind of
like a life sentence I wasgiving myself.
And then I was living in thatshame of feeling like a burden
(13:23):
or, oh, I can contribute inthese areas, but I can't
contribute at all in these otherareas.
Feeling less than or that.
You know, oh, I should havedone this or that, or wish I
could have done this or that.
And flipping those limitingbeliefs and kind of that life
sentence of feeling like you'renot worthy to empowered beliefs
(13:44):
such as you know I'm worthy ofall resource.
There's a whole community ofpeople around advocating for me
to live my best life.
You know all these different,more empowered beliefs has
really helped, and things likechanging the language that I
mentioned earlier, like I didn'thurt myself, like this isn't
something that I did, that issomething to be blamed or, you
(14:04):
know, take a different level ofresponsibility for and I think
it's allowed me to give myself alot more grace and self-care
and to lean into where I am ableto contribute and what my
participation can look like,without needing to feel like I'm
less than because of it.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
And you've talked a couple of times just around
community and as you'veconnected with other zebras in
the EDS community, what commonthreads of resilience have you
noticed that might be valuablefor everyone to understand, even
people who don't have EDS?
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, the people that I know with EDS are some of the
most resilient, amazing peopleI know.
I think that the common threadsthat they share is they have
this overcomer attitude likethis I'm knocked down right now.
Now and I'm definitely gettingback up again and seeing what's
(15:02):
next.
Right, and okay, maybe I needto have a break, I need to have
some self care, maybe I need tohave an outlet for my emotions
and then I'm going to reset.
And I also have met some reallyamazing people with EDS that
have challenged me in a good way.
I always tell my kids comparisonis the thief of joy, but if
(15:25):
comparison is a motivator andagain, all EDS is different, so
I'm not trying to compare myselfin an unrealistic way to others
, but I've found some real valuein seeing some of the things
that they're able to do.
And there's always thatstatement that it's not breaking
if it's based on fact, right?
So seeing the facts of whatthey've created in their life
(15:49):
has inspired me like, oh, Iwonder.
And again, not comparing us asapples to apples or having any
judgment, but I wonder like lookat what they're doing and I
wonder what that would look likefor me.
And so the people that I knowthey're also extremely
encouraging, like they have yourback.
(16:10):
They're not going to let you gointo a down spiral of
self-ableism and judgment.
They're going to be encouragingyou to.
You know, be on the up spiraland look at what's next and be
supportive.
I joke because I've beenblessed.
Like sometimes if I have areally bad time with my EDS, I
call it an EDS crash and I justhave a lovely community of
(16:31):
friends.
Maybe they send flowers or dropoff a meal which is so
appreciated.
And then my friend with EDSsent a package and I opened it
and it was like Advil and like aback brace and a neck pillow
and it was like all thepractical things.
And so I think, like sometimeswe need to mirror the practical
with the emotional support topeople in our lives.
(16:54):
And what would that look likefor them?
Maybe ask If you want tosupport someone.
Maybe ask them what would thebest support look like for you
right now if I wanted to.
You know, be supportive,communicating when there's hard
(17:21):
times, and I've definitely triedto utilize that in all aspects
of my life because I thinksometimes, when people are going
through challenges, there's adeath in the family or friend or
there's a job loss or there'sjust these really challenging
times.
Sometimes people don't show upor say anything because they're
worried about saying the wrongthing.
And I just say just show up forpeople, even when you don't
know what to say, because thefact that you're just making an
(17:43):
effort and you're there, I thinkthey're going to know your
intention and don't worry somuch about how to do it right,
because I just remember thepeople that are there for me and
that's what I try to do forothers.
And I think I've learned a lotabout that from people with EDS,
people in the chronic illnesscommunity and just people in
(18:05):
general.
I mean, we are all having our.
Sometimes I say my disabilitycan't be thought away, like all
these things about mindset.
They're great, but I can't justwish my disability away.
I can't take a vacation from it, nothing.
It's always there as anundercurrent and all of us have
undercurrents and it's nice tohave support and encouragement
along the way.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
I love that.
Well, as we wrap up, there'salways a question I love to ask,
and that's if it were your lastday on earth, and of all the
things you've learned and takenin and gone through, you could
only impart one piece of adviceto the world.
What would it be.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Oh, my goodness, that's such a huge question All
the things I've learned in theadvice.
So right now I'm doing a.
I've been doing a blog for mysons for the past two and a half
years, so I'm trying toactually do that with my sons.
But I think it would be focus,focus, your Focus, your vision
and your eyes on Jesus and thethings outside of the day-to-day
(19:02):
of this world and love yourself, love others and build your
community.
And I think that if we'releaving our family, our
workplace, our faith community,our friends better because of
our presence and our workplace,our faith community, our friends
better because of our presenceand our absence, that's
(19:22):
something that we can look backat and feel like we've had a
legacy.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Well, jennifer, thank you so much for the courage to
just show up and, out of faithand out of obedience, around
talking more about what thisjourney has looked like for you,
and I know with just such asense of certainty that even
those who may not be battlingthis same diagnosis, there's
gonna be something thatresonates Because, to your point
(19:47):
, everybody has an undercurrentand it looks a little bit
different, maybe has a differentname for everybody, maybe it
doesn't even have a name yet,but everybody has that
undercurrent, and you steppingout and being the voice of being
willing to be vulnerable andshare not only the challenges
but the way that you've beenable to empower yourself, I
think is such a beautiful story,and so I appreciate you coming
(20:11):
on and sharing that with me inthe audience.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Well, thank you so much.
It's been a pleasure talkingwith you.
Well, thank you so much.
It's been a pleasure talkingwith you.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Thank you so much for listening and for being here on
this journey with me.
I hope you'll stick around Ifyou liked this episode.
It would mean the world for meif you would rate and review the
podcast or share it withsomeone you know.
Many need to hear this message.
I love to hear from you all andwant you to know that you can
leave me a voicemail directly.
If you go to my website,evokegreatnesscom, and go to the
contact me tab, you'll just hitthe big old orange button and
(20:44):
record your message.
I love the feedback andcomments that I've been getting,
so please keep them coming.
I'll leave you with the wisewords of author Robin Sharma
Greatness comes by doing a fewsmall and smart things each and
every day.
It comes from taking littlesteps consistently.
It comes from making a fewsmall chips against everything
(21:06):
in your professional andpersonal life that is ordinary,
so that a day eventually arriveswhen all that's left is the
extraordinary.
Welcome to Evoke Greatness.
We are officially entering yearthree of this podcast and I am
filled with so much gratitudefor each and every one of you
who've joined me on thisincredible journey of growth and
self-discovery.
I'm Sunny, your host and fellowtraveler on this path of
personal evolution.
This podcast is a sanctuary forthe curious, the ambitious and
(00:28):
the introspective.
It's for those of you who, likeme, are captivated by the
champion mindset and driven byan insatiable hunger for growth
and knowledge.
Whether you're just beginningyour journey or you're well
along your path, you're going tofind stories here that resonate
with your experiences andaspirations.
Over the last two years, we'veshared countless stories of
triumph and challenge, ofresilience and transformation.
(00:51):
We've laughed, we've reflectedand we've grown together.
And as we've evolved, so toohas this podcast.
Remember, no matter whatchapter you're on in your own
story, you belong here.
This community we've builttogether is a place of support,
inspiration and shared growth.
Where intention goes, energyflows, and the energy you bring
(01:13):
to this space elevates us all.
So, whether you're listeningwhile commuting, working out or
enjoying your morning coffee,perhaps from one of those
motivational mugs I'm so fond of, know that you're a part of
something special.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for your curiosity,your openness and your
commitment to personal growth.
As we embark on year three, Iinvite you to lean in, to listen
(01:36):
deeply and to let these storiesresonate with your soul.
I believe that a rising tideraises all ships and I invite
you along in this journey toevoke greatness.
(01:57):
Welcome back to Part 2 of LeadBeyond Limits with my guest,
jennifer Koster.
In Part 1, we explored howJennifer's 30-year journey with
HEDS taught her that a diagnosiscan be empowering rather than
limiting, providing validationand community.
She taught us how intentionallyreframing challenges transforms
our relationships with them andhow the language we use
(02:18):
dramatically shifts ourperspective on disabilities.
Jennifer also shared herpractice of asking what if?
To open up new possibilitiesbeyond perceived limitations,
and revealed how living with ahidden disability cultivates
unique leadership qualities,including adaptability,
resilience and authentic teambuilding.
(02:38):
Now, in part two, we're going todive deeper with Jennifer into
her spiritual journey, herapproach to vulnerability and
the powerful wisdom the EDScommunity offers about
overcoming life's challenges.
So if you haven't listened topart one, go back and give that
one a listen.
Okay, let's hop into part twoand I want to pull in a thread
of something you said aroundyour faith and you and I really
(03:00):
met in a LinkedIn Bible studygroup.
Our good buddy, mitch Sugg, puton and grabbed this group of
followers and put us in thisBible study that we would get on
and we'd have these video callsand kind of talk through
something that he created for aBible study.
And so I know this.
But I'm curious, as you thinkabout all you've navigated how
(03:22):
has your faith been a tool, aninstrument for you in the hard
times, but in the good times, inthe, in the challenging times?
Speaker 2 (03:31):
But I think I've experienced the most growth in
my faith and the mostsurrendering of self and only to
Jesus in the most difficult oftimes.
(03:52):
And so in that regards, are thechallenges part of the blessing
, and we actually met in theBible study that was on the book
of James Sunny, and the book ofJames is my favorite book in
the Bible and there's theseverses about like a reflection
(04:13):
pool of becoming less like youand more like Jesus through a
refining process, and that's howI feel about the challenges.
It's like okay, god, thank youfor reminding me again.
I'm going to try to be gratefulin all circumstances, even
though I guarantee you I am notgrateful for all circumstances.
I am not.
And whatever the process needsto be more like you and less
(04:34):
like me.
That is scary, but I will right, let's do it, and I try to
carry those moments of just allthe praise reports in the good
times and the blessings.
But there has been a largeamount of growth in my faith
during the challenging times andwhen I was having that health
(04:54):
incident I was discussingearlier, I had a colleague at a
different organization who wasgoing through a cancer journey
and I was spending some timetalking with her.
She's like you know there'snothing like being taken out of
work like this and not beingable to do a lot and having a
lot of free time on your hands.
That you know brings you closerto the Lord, because this is
(05:17):
what you're doing and you'rereading the Bible, you're
praying, you're in community,you're basically at the time.
For me, I was definitely areceiver.
We had so many people incommunity come around us and it
wasn't a time where I was givingback.
It was a time of receiving, andI think you know that's a gift
both ways, because it's a giftto the person who's blessed,
(05:39):
who's giving and also receiving,and it was just a time of real
growth and reflection for me.
So am I far enough along in myjourney that I can say thank
goodness that happened?
I do see aspects of it as ablessing.
I still struggle sometimes withthe challenge parts, but I
often think I'm not sure how Iwould have done it if I didn't
(06:00):
have faith in a faith community,because it's been so important
for me.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, thank you for sharing that In your talk.
Lead Beyond Limits.
You connect that hiddendisability with leadership
resilience.
What do you think are the mostimportant lessons other leaders
can learn from your journey ofand?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
there is this I've worked with Novus Global and or
a company out in LA for coaching, and they have a book out by
Jason Jaggard and the coaches atNovus Global called Beyond High
Performance, and they say thatthe top two biggest leadership
(06:41):
challenges are that leadersunderestimate themselves and
underestimate their teams.
Basically, we have thisintuitive fence that we think is
a fact.
And if we're in the middle ofthis fence, we're this intuitive
fence that we think is a factand if we're in the middle of
this fence, we're in our comfortzone.
And to go be on that fence, youhave to really think about what
is a thrilling vision foryourself and your life and who
(07:02):
would you need to become toreach that.
And don't underestimate that,don't underestimate yourself or
your team, underestimate that.
Don't underestimate yourself oryour team, because as a leader,
your fence kind of limits whatyour team, how your team, can
expand that.
So where your vision is limited, it'd be really hard for the
team to go beyond the limit ofyour own intuitive fence.
(07:25):
So definitely notunderestimating what is possible
.
And then once you start seeingthings that you previously
thought were impossible arehappening, it's like well, what
else?
Right, like what else couldthere be and that's a beautiful
place to live in.
And if there's a closed door,great, that must mean something
(07:47):
else is out there.
That doesn't mean the end,right.
So I've really appreciatedthose vision conversations and
part of going beyond yourintuitive fence as to what you
think is possible.
It helps get those around youthinking what's possible.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, I think many people with chronic conditions
often talk about having toreally carefully manage their
energy.
You know, and when you thinkabout what you have to do on a
day-to-day basis, how has thisnecessity influenced you in how
you approach goals andpriorities across all areas of
your life?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, the energy is a great question and it's so true
.
And I've said I definitelybelieve in self-care and
listening to your body.
But just for me personally withEDS, what I say is sometimes I
listen to my body and sometimesI tell it, because if I listened
all the time I wouldn't bemaking any progress toward any
(08:40):
goals.
So that's a personal.
I definitely am a believer oflistening and self-care.
So I'm not trying to tellanyone who's doing that that
that's not right, but just forme, sometimes I have to tell it.
So sleep is a big can be a bigchallenge for me, and so there
are days where sleep hasconsistently not been
restorative and there might be aday where, okay, then I need to
(09:00):
listen and be okay withrescheduling some things.
And then there might be othertimes where you know what I'm
going to have to push throughand the body's going to give up
eventually and it's going tosleep.
And knowing that from pastexperience for me personally
gives a little bit less anxietyover the sleepless nights
because I know I'm going to getback to a sleep routine.
(09:22):
But managing the energy isparamount.
So being clear on your visionand saying no to things that
aren't in alignment with yourvision or your values helps with
the energy management.
And once you're clear on visionand your values like for me if
(09:42):
it's faith and family and makingan impact through work and
leadership once you're clear onthose things and friendships,
then you can say no to thethings that aren't in alignment
with the vision, knowing thatyou have to manage your energy
and everyone has to manage theirenergy.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah, how has your experience changed the way you
view vulnerability, both inpersonal and professional
settings?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Well, it's changed a lot.
I don't know if it's changed somuch how I view it as a
superpower.
I'm not super confident indoing it myself.
I wouldn't view it as my ownsuperpower, but I feel like I've
been called to it and I'mtrying to walk in that obedience
.
And it is still uncomfortablefor me Three years later of
doing this.
(10:28):
I'm nervous to be sharing mystory here, but it has made an
impact and when I have shared Ifeel like you know it's nice
when people give positivefeedback so great People have
told me that's really resonatedwith me, that's been impactful
for me and that's so wonderfulto hear.
And then also, if it helpsanyone else feel comfortable to
(10:52):
share their own stories.
I mean, I'm a big connector andI just feel like we connect
over stories.
We're built for community.
We're built to be there for oneanother and tried our best to
understand and have a sense ofbelonging for people.
So if it helps others sharetheir stories so they can more
fully feel like they can bringtheir whole self to life and to
(11:14):
work, where they don't have tomask who they are or change
things about themselves to makeother people feel more
comfortable, then I think that'sa win and I've appreciated that
when others have led withvulnerability, and I'm still
learning to take up thechallenge of it.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Well, and I think, even as you take on the
challenge of that, you'remirroring that to others who may
be even seeing it as more of achallenge from their perspective
.
And I think that, again, likethat's that gift, like you had
talked about earlier, thatsometimes things that we're
working on as we start to buildthat muscle, we're showing
somebody else who isn't quitewhere we are, that it's possible
(11:52):
as well.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Yeah, that's absolutely right, and I love
that you use the analogy ofbuilding the muscle, because we
talk a lot about, like liftingthe weights, of getting
comfortable, being uncomfortable, because nobody's great at
something the first time they dosomething like that's where all
(12:17):
these new possibilities, youknow, come about in your vision
and you see things as morepossible Right.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
You touched on internalized ableism in your
presentations and in your talk.
How has recognizing andaddressing this changed your
relationship with yourself andyour capabilities?
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah, I didn't even know the term self-ableism
before I got my diagnosis, sothat's how uninformed I was.
But once I learned more aboutit I was like, oh my goodness, I
am making these self-judgmentsleft and right.
And I did this exercise with mycoach where I wrote down I have
a note in my phone of all mylimiting beliefs like just like,
(12:58):
lay them out there Things like,if I'm struggling with EDS, I
can't be a good wife, mother orcoworker, I'll be a burden to
other people.
You know all the things that,for me, ended up with I'm just
not worthy and didn't evenrealize that that was kind of
like a life sentence I wasgiving myself.
And then I was living in thatshame of feeling like a burden
(13:23):
or, oh, I can contribute inthese areas, but I can't
contribute at all in these otherareas.
Feeling less than or that.
You know, oh, I should havedone this or that, or wish I
could have done this or that.
And flipping those limitingbeliefs and kind of that life
sentence of feeling like you'renot worthy to empowered beliefs
(13:44):
such as you know I'm worthy ofall resource.
There's a whole community ofpeople around advocating for me
to live my best life.
You know all these different,more empowered beliefs has
really helped, and things likechanging the language that I
mentioned earlier, like I didn'thurt myself, like this isn't
something that I did, that issomething to be blamed or, you
(14:04):
know, take a different level ofresponsibility for and I think
it's allowed me to give myself alot more grace and self-care
and to lean into where I am ableto contribute and what my
participation can look like,without needing to feel like I'm
less than because of it.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
And you've talked a couple of times just around
community and as you'veconnected with other zebras in
the EDS community, what commonthreads of resilience have you
noticed that might be valuablefor everyone to understand, even
people who don't have EDS?
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, the people that I know with EDS are some of the
most resilient, amazing peopleI know.
I think that the common threadsthat they share is they have
this overcomer attitude likethis I'm knocked down right now.
Now and I'm definitely gettingback up again and seeing what's
(15:02):
next.
Right, and okay, maybe I needto have a break, I need to have
some self care, maybe I need tohave an outlet for my emotions
and then I'm going to reset.
And I also have met some reallyamazing people with EDS that
have challenged me in a good way.
I always tell my kids comparisonis the thief of joy, but if
(15:25):
comparison is a motivator andagain, all EDS is different, so
I'm not trying to compare myselfin an unrealistic way to others
, but I've found some real valuein seeing some of the things
that they're able to do.
And there's always thatstatement that it's not breaking
if it's based on fact, right?
So seeing the facts of whatthey've created in their life
(15:49):
has inspired me like, oh, Iwonder.
And again, not comparing us asapples to apples or having any
judgment, but I wonder like lookat what they're doing and I
wonder what that would look likefor me.
And so the people that I knowthey're also extremely
encouraging, like they have yourback.
(16:10):
They're not going to let you gointo a down spiral of
self-ableism and judgment.
They're going to be encouragingyou to.
You know, be on the up spiraland look at what's next and be
supportive.
I joke because I've beenblessed.
Like sometimes if I have areally bad time with my EDS, I
call it an EDS crash and I justhave a lovely community of
(16:31):
friends.
Maybe they send flowers or dropoff a meal which is so
appreciated.
And then my friend with EDSsent a package and I opened it
and it was like Advil and like aback brace and a neck pillow
and it was like all thepractical things.
And so I think, like sometimeswe need to mirror the practical
with the emotional support topeople in our lives.
(16:54):
And what would that look likefor them?
Maybe ask If you want tosupport someone.
Maybe ask them what would thebest support look like for you
right now if I wanted to.
You know, be supportive,communicating when there's hard
(17:21):
times, and I've definitely triedto utilize that in all aspects
of my life because I thinksometimes, when people are going
through challenges, there's adeath in the family or friend or
there's a job loss or there'sjust these really challenging
times.
Sometimes people don't show upor say anything because they're
worried about saying the wrongthing.
And I just say just show up forpeople, even when you don't
know what to say, because thefact that you're just making an
(17:43):
effort and you're there, I thinkthey're going to know your
intention and don't worry somuch about how to do it right,
because I just remember thepeople that are there for me and
that's what I try to do forothers.
And I think I've learned a lotabout that from people with EDS,
people in the chronic illnesscommunity and just people in
(18:05):
general.
I mean, we are all having our.
Sometimes I say my disabilitycan't be thought away, like all
these things about mindset.
They're great, but I can't justwish my disability away.
I can't take a vacation from it, nothing.
It's always there as anundercurrent and all of us have
undercurrents and it's nice tohave support and encouragement
along the way.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
I love that.
Well, as we wrap up, there'salways a question I love to ask,
and that's if it were your lastday on earth, and of all the
things you've learned and takenin and gone through, you could
only impart one piece of adviceto the world.
What would it be.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Oh, my goodness, that's such a huge question All
the things I've learned in theadvice.
So right now I'm doing a.
I've been doing a blog for mysons for the past two and a half
years, so I'm trying toactually do that with my sons.
But I think it would be focus,focus, your Focus, your vision
and your eyes on Jesus and thethings outside of the day-to-day
(19:02):
of this world and love yourself, love others and build your
community.
And I think that if we'releaving our family, our
workplace, our faith community,our friends better because of
our presence and our workplace,our faith community, our friends
better because of our presenceand our absence, that's
(19:22):
something that we can look backat and feel like we've had a
legacy.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Well, jennifer, thank you so much for the courage to
just show up and, out of faithand out of obedience, around
talking more about what thisjourney has looked like for you,
and I know with just such asense of certainty that even
those who may not be battlingthis same diagnosis, there's
gonna be something thatresonates Because, to your point
(19:47):
, everybody has an undercurrentand it looks a little bit
different, maybe has a differentname for everybody, maybe it
doesn't even have a name yet,but everybody has that
undercurrent, and you steppingout and being the voice of being
willing to be vulnerable andshare not only the challenges
but the way that you've beenable to empower yourself, I
think is such a beautiful story,and so I appreciate you coming
(20:11):
on and sharing that with me inthe audience.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Well, thank you so much.
It's been a pleasure talkingwith you.
Well, thank you so much.
It's been a pleasure talkingwith you.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Thank you so much for listening and for being here on
this journey with me.
I hope you'll stick around Ifyou liked this episode.
It would mean the world for meif you would rate and review the
podcast or share it withsomeone you know.
Many need to hear this message.
I love to hear from you all andwant you to know that you can
leave me a voicemail directly.
If you go to my website,evokegreatnesscom, and go to the
contact me tab, you'll just hitthe big old orange button and
(20:44):
record your message.
I love the feedback andcomments that I've been getting,
so please keep them coming.
I'll leave you with the wisewords of author Robin Sharma
Greatness comes by doing a fewsmall and smart things each and
every day.
It comes from taking littlesteps consistently.
It comes from making a fewsmall chips against everything
(21:06):
in your professional andpersonal life that is ordinary,
so that a day eventually arriveswhen all that's left is the
extraordinary.
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