April 8, 2025 • 39 mins
What does it truly mean to be bold?
For Sonnie Linebarger, boldness begins not with action but with "exploration of what's possible for ourselves"—a mindset shift that transformed her life journey from CNA to CEO.
In this powerful conversation from The Bold Lounge podcast, I share my personal evolution through healthcare leadership, entrepreneurship, and my current role as CEO of Cadre Hospice. The path wasn't linear—it included corporate burnout, a period of recalibration as an entrepreneur, and ultimately finding a leadership position aligned with my deepest values.
The turning point in my journey came at age 35 when I discovered personal development and realized I wasn't limited by my circumstances. Growing up with a single parent in poverty, I had accepted a fixed mindset about what was possible for my life. That mental breakthrough unleashed possibilities I never imagined existed.
One of the most valuable lessons I learned was identifying my non-negotiables—especially prioritizing family alongside professional ambition. This shift required redefining success itself, moving beyond titles and compensation to measure my impact and fulfillment in both professional and personal realms. Success became less about climbing ladders and more about creating meaningful change while honoring my core values.
For anyone contemplating their own bold moves, start by exploring those "wild thoughts" you'd never say aloud. Write them down in present tense, take small steps outside your comfort zone, and watch how these micro-actions build momentum. Remember: "You're only confined by your own limitations, by what you think in your own mind."
Ready to explore what's possible in your life? Listen now and discover how changing your thoughts can transform not just your career, but your entire future.
A rising tide raises all ships, and I invite you along on this journey to Evoke Greatness!
Check out my website: www.evokegreatness.com
Follow me on:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sonnie-linebarger-899b9a52/
https://www.instagram.com/evoke.greatness/
https://www.tiktok.com/@evoke.greatness
http://www.youtube.com/@evokegreatness
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Evoke Greatness.
We are officially entering yearthree of this podcast and I am
filled with so much gratitudefor each and every one of you
who've joined me on thisincredible journey of growth and
self-discovery.
I'm Sunny, your host and fellowtraveler on this path of
personal evolution.
This podcast is a sanctuary forthe curious, the ambitious and
(00:28):
the introspective.
It's for those of you who, likeme, are captivated by the
champion mindset and driven byan insatiable hunger for growth
and knowledge.
Whether you're just beginningyour journey or you're well
along your path, you're going tofind stories here that resonate
with your experiences andaspirations.
Over the last two years, we'veshared countless stories of
triumph and challenge, ofresilience and transformation.
(00:51):
We've laughed, we've reflectedand we've grown together.
And as we've evolved, so toohas this podcast.
Remember, no matter whatchapter you're on in your own
story, you belong here.
This community we've builttogether is a place of support,
inspiration and shared growth.
Where intention goes, energyflows, and the energy you bring
(01:13):
to this space elevates us all.
So, whether you're listeningwhile commuting, working out or
enjoying your morning coffee,perhaps from one of those
motivational mugs I'm so fond of, know that you're a part of
something special.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for your curiosity,your openness and your
commitment to personal growth.
As we embark on year three, Iinvite you to lean in, to listen
(01:36):
deeply and to let these storiesresonate with your soul.
I believe that a rising tideraises all ships and I invite
you along in this journey toevoke greatness.
(01:56):
Hey everybody, welcome back thisweek.
I have something a littledifferent for you.
I was recently a guest on theBold Lounge podcast with my good
friend Leigh Burgess.
Usually I'm on this side of themicrophone interviewing someone
else.
This time you're going to hearthe episode that she aired.
That has me being interviewed.
I hope you enjoy it.
Let's hop into it.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Welcome to the Bold Lounge podcast.
My name is Leigh Burgess and Iwill be your host.
If you're anything like me, youlove hearing inspiring stories
of people who have gone on boldjourneys and made a positive
impact in the world.
This podcast is all about thosekinds of stories.
Every week, we'll hear fromsomeone who has taken a lead or
embarked on an extraordinaryjourney.
(02:36):
In addition to hearing theirstories, we'll also learn about
their bold growth mindset thatthey use to make things happen.
Whether they faced challengesor doubts along the way, they
persisted and ultimatelyachieved their goals.
These impactful stories willleave you feeling motivated and
inspired to pursue your own boldjourney.
I believe everyone has a boldstory waiting to be freed.
(02:58):
Tune in and get ready to beinspired.
Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
Today I have Sunny Leinberger.
Sunny is a maverick in thehospice space, stitching
together the fabric ofleadership, innovation and care,
with the position of a seasonednurse and the vision of a CEO.
With over two decades in thetrenches of healthcare, sunny
(03:18):
has journeyed from CNA to CEO, apath that's anything but linear
.
She's the CEO for Cadre Hospiceand is disrupting the industry
through world-class end-of-lifecare.
She is also the host of theEvoke Greatness podcast.
Ranked in the top 3% globally,her podcast is a light for the
lifelong learners and thosehungry for the real lessons
(03:39):
behind leadership and success.
Sunny's philosophy People matter.
Cultivating a culture thatbreathes empathy and empowerment
is not just her passion but hermission, through mentorship,
development and transformation.
Sunny isn't just in thebusiness of healthcare, she's in
the business of human potential.
Welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much.
(03:59):
Excited to be here with you,leigh yeah.
So we had some freeconversation and I'm excited to
kind of get into thenitty-gritty of being bold and
what bold looks like in yourlife.
So let's just start with yourdefinition.
How do you define bold?
Speaker 1 (04:12):
I think bold is, as I kind of step back and think
about it bold is thatexploration of what's possible
for ourselves, and I think thatdoesn't even require I think
some people get scared by thatand think it requires action.
But before action comes, thethought around it.
Right, we have to explore first.
(04:33):
Is this you know what ispossible?
Like in my mind, what ispossible?
And so I think that piece to methat's really when I started
exploring what was possible,started to see a complete shift
in my life, and so it's not evenabout necessarily the action,
even the thought, theexploration of thought around
what's possible for people, yeah, so sometimes even just
(04:53):
thinking makes people nervous,right, like oh, where did that
come from?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
That thought came up and like that feels bold, that
feels like change, that feelslike I'll need to do something
about that.
Right, and even just thatcoming up, I think, is a moment
for people not to push away, andso I love that you bring it up,
that it's not always like amove, and that's where I
generally talk about.
Bold moves are on a continuumone being very, very quiet,
(05:18):
which is the one you maybe justdefined.
Two, the ones that everybodysees, and maybe louder.
So when you think of your boldmoment and a moment in your life
that kind of resonates withthat definition, what comes up
for you?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, I would say my current season.
I'm feeling really bold in mycurrent season and I think
different seasons bringdifferent things for us.
But just stepping in,reflecting back on my journey,
as you mentioned in the intro, Istarted out my career as a CNA.
For people who don't know whatthat is, it's a nursing
assistant.
It's the person who changespeople's bed linens and, for the
(05:52):
elderly, helps bathe themThings like that that are not,
you know, any high-ranking typeof work.
It's really the bottom rung,but it's some of the most
meaningful work that I did.
And to think that I startedthere and that I just stepped
into a CEO role, there's a lotof exploring what's possible for
me in my mind and envisioningwhat that looks like, how I'm
(06:12):
going to grow this company, theteam that I'm building, and so I
think I'm really feeling like aseason of ascension or boldness
right now.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
And why do you call it season?
So let me you know, a lot ofpeople talk about different
phases of their life or levelsof their life.
For you, it's a season.
So what does a season mean foryou?
Speaker 1 (06:31):
And I think right now it's really being present in
where I am and evaluating all ofthe things that are around me.
So this new role, thetransition back to traveling a
bit and being in a space, acorporate space, that I was in
(06:53):
previously after stepping out ofan entrepreneurial role, and so
this season is an adjustment athome.
This season is an adjustment inthis role.
It's really just like allencompassing where I am right
now and in this season.
I'm really just like allencompassing where I am right
now and in this season I'mpreparing myself for the next
season.
So it's like a continual timeof being present, but also
preparation for the next seasonand, I think, gratitude for the
(07:15):
previous season.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Right, yeah, so you weren't always in the space
you're in now.
So obviously there's a lot inbetween going from CNA to CEO
and in life experience and alsoin our, you know, professional
world as well.
So along the way, kind of youand I remember seeing you and
you know you and I have talkedabout this you had a LinkedIn
post and that's where weinitially connected and you were
(07:38):
advocating and that's to me thepost and that's to me the post.
I don't know if you rememberwhich post it was, but you were
kind of like in the car andyou're like getting ready to go
in and really advocate, I think,for your patients inside, and
so it was just a really cutepost and showed your personality
and also your wow, she's reallyin the right space for what she
(08:06):
loves to do, Like she's aligned, and that was like at that
point I was looking foralignment.
I had left, you know, thecorporate world and was starting
my entrepreneurial journey.
So for you, from that spacethat you were in there to the
season now, you did have somemoments of you know figuring
things out or you know definingwhat's next for you, what
happened between that post orthat moment in time to where you
(08:29):
are now, and what have youlearned about yourself in those
seasons that you went throughbefore now?
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, well, I think, just rewinding back a little bit
, I was in the corporate spacefor a long period of time been
in healthcare for 20 years, alittle over 20 years and I was
the chief operating officer fora national hospice company and
did 33 acquisitions inside threeand a half years.
And I mean, we had our rollerskates on and we were growing.
There was a lot happening and Iwas also so caught up in that
(09:00):
that I was letting my healtherode and I was approaching my
wall.
You know, a number of thingsoccurred that I thought I don't
know if I can keep up with thisand ended up going to the doctor
and have a thyroid issue, andthat is exacerbated by stress,
(09:20):
and so, gee, why can't I keep mylevels?
Great, well, because I'mconstantly in this environment
of stress.
So I really had to step back andkind of evaluate my life and my
role in large company.
Would you say you were burntout or not?
Absolutely Okay, absolutely,yeah, but it's almost hard to
recognize that you're burnt outor not?
Absolutely Okay, absolutely,yeah, but it's almost hard to
recognize that you're burnt outin the moment.
I mean, I know, you know thatall too well.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Everyone else knows it, but you like.
That's how I felt you know, youknow, you've heard my story, so
it was extreme level of burnoutthat I was like, oh well, I'll
just keep doing the same thingover and over, and so a little
similarity in the sense of itwas my health for me, like you,
a different, obviously thing.
But I think I got to the pointwhere, like well, I have to like
, there is no choice, I have todo something different.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
You hit the wall and you don't quite realize you hit
the wall until other peoplerecognize you're sliding down
the wall at that point in time,when other people are like hey,
yeah, and and.
So that's where I was and Idecided to step away from that
role, which is really hard forme because it was like I felt
like I'd worked my whole lifetowards that role.
So I decided to step back outof that and I thought what am I
(10:23):
going to do?
I'm bound by a non-compete, youknow.
So I'm a little doing hospice,consulting, executive coaching.
I had my podcast, I did somekeynote speaking, and so I
stayed in that space for abouttwo years.
But that was a reallychallenging transition because I
(10:44):
was used to though it was whatpulled me away from my corporate
role.
We're used to that chaos thatwe're in.
That we're in and I think thatwas a big challenge was going
from the state of chaos to thenbeing home.
I had run a healthcare companythrough COVID, and so then, all
of a sudden, we're kind ofcoming out of the pandemic,
things are starting to normalizeand I'm at home, working by
(11:07):
myself, starting this company,really, if I'm honest, having a
little clue as to what I wasdoing and I hired a coach right
away.
And what my coach said to meabout 60 days in?
She said, sunny, I have to tellyou this jail cell that you're
in the door is open.
You'd have to make the decisionto walk out of it.
And I thought, oh, wow.
So I was keeping myself in thisstate of, like internal chaos
(11:31):
because I didn't know how totransition out of the chaos and
into this new environment whereI didn't have 10 calls a day and
I wasn't working till 7 pm.
There's some days, as anentrepreneur, you may not have
any calls.
And so it was this battlingwith like, am I completely
failing at this?
Okay, no, I'm getting business,I'm creating things, and it was
(11:51):
just.
It was a really weird place tobe, and it was probably about
three months that it took me totransition to that space before
I started feeling like, okay,I'm creating my own new pace.
But I think one of the mostimportant things that I learned
in that and again, like by wayof, I'm such a fan of coaching
and what that can bring ifyou're really open to the
process my coach said to me,something that you need to get
(12:14):
really clear on is yournon-negotiables, because I think
those lines were blurred inthis corporate world and you did
what had to be done.
You figured it out and I thinkthat was what I did a lot of
work on was understanding whatmy non-negotiables were, and if
I was ever going to exploregoing back into it, I would have
to make sure that all of thoseboxes were checked, that I was
(12:35):
crystal clear on communicatingand articulating those, and so I
was able to kind of build theconstruct under my
non-negotiables and what Iwanted for the future, and I
think that really helped me stepinto, when the time was right,
a really amazing opportunitythat I feel like now was built
for me.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah.
So you went from leading othersto really having to lead
yourself.
Right In my mind, like when Iwent through that phase of like
having a day very, very definedfor me of what I had to do,
where I needed to be, who Ineeded to support, you know, it
was very, very clear to whoa,like I don't, you know, like you
(13:17):
said, I don't have to have 20meetings today, I don't have to
travel, I don't have to doanything I don't want to do.
But what is it that I want todo?
And who am I?
Like?
I was having this like who theheck am I now?
You know, I was 48 at thatpoint and I was like I could be
anything I want to be.
What do I want to do?
Like you said, kind of arecalibration of your
non-negotiables and for me, myvalues.
(13:38):
Like I was very misaligned withmy values of how I spent my
time, my health, myrelationships, like I had work
to do on every level of healthpossible.
So in that sense, it was likerealigning to that and also
realizing that I missed all thesigns when I was out of
alignment, because I thinkthat's one thing that I know,
you realize, but to make sureothers is like just because you
leave one place doesn't mean youwon't have those same habits
(13:59):
that come back.
That could burn you out again.
Even as an entrepreneur, youcan burn yourself out.
So I think being able to alsohave some time around that is
really important.
So for you, what became anon-negotiable or what were some
of your non-negotiables thatyou really wanted to make sure
as you move forward in thisseason and forward into your
life, that weren't going to belost again or maybe not be as
(14:22):
defined as you know they havebeen in the past will be out
there in bold letters versusmaybe just to the side yeah, I
think the um, the connectionthat I had had early on in my
career was I have to go ahundred miles an hour and I have
on in my career was I have togo 100 miles an hour and I have
to sacrifice things.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
I'm going to have to sacrifice time with my family
and, fortunately, early on in mycareer my husband was like, hey
, go after it, go ahead, I'llhold down things at home.
And my boys were little when Istarted in larger cork rolls and
I missed some things and I hadmy priorities skewed for a while
.
I thought, in order to, I wasso filled with ambition and
(15:03):
drive that I thought I had tosacrifice.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Well, we felt like we had to make a choice right.
I remember my mom and mybrother and everyone, like our
little tribe helping take careof Maya when she was tiny.
So I was still in school, I wasgetting my master's, I was
working two jobs, you're doingwhat you have to do and it
almost feels like you don't atleast I felt.
(15:26):
I don't know if you ever feltlike that.
You didn't have a choice.
You either went for the role,the degree, the job, or you had
a family.
I think it's hopefully betternow but I don't know.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Yeah, so early on, I think I missed things and I had
my priorities skewed.
What I realized over that timewas I determine those priorities
and I can choose to go all inon work and be not what my
family needs me to be by way ofbeing a mom, a wife, a leader at
(15:56):
home, or and this is a thingthat I think is still maybe not
the most popular opinion Ibelieve wholeheartedly that we
can have it all.
I think what that looks like isa little different for everyone
, but I really believe that wecan have it all, and so today,
how I look at it is, mynon-negotiables are if I have
(16:18):
priorities at home, if I haveevents for my kids, that's going
to come first, and so I want tobe really clear about it.
Let me make sure that you knoweveryone's aligned and on the
same page.
Other day, for a role that I'mhiring for and they said well,
you know I'm totally okay withtravel.
I just want to let you know,like there's one thing that's
(16:38):
really important to me, andthat's my daughter's prom and
it's, you know, it's later inthe year.
But like I just that'ssomething I want to make sure
I'm really clear about and Isaid you know I would be
concerned if you didn't say thatabout articulating those and
saying, hey, this is what'sreally important to me.
If your company, if your leader, doesn't support that, you
(17:00):
should probably look at thatopportunity.
I said there's things for me.
If I have something importantgoing, I'm going to let you guys
know that I'm not going to beable to attend something,
because I think when we reallybuild ourselves up on a strong
sense of support and foundationpersonally, that allows us to
flourish and pour inprofessionally.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, so being able to advocate for yourself, I
think, is really, reallyimportant, hearing that and good
for that person and saying whatwas important to them, because
I don't know if we all have donethat.
I know I certainly didn't dothat earlier on in my career and
, like you said, you miss thingsand you think about the things
that you could have but youcan't go back to, but you can
change, moving forward.
(17:39):
So I think that's one of thekey things for folks to hear is
like, what do you want to talkabout now that is your
non-negotiable, and how can youtalk about it, whether it's with
you know, whether it's in yourrelationships or whether it's at
your work or some of the thingsthat you may be doing
personally.
Like, just really think aboutthose non-negotiables and you
can reset.
And I think that's thepossibility here that you know
(18:00):
you're sharing and certainly inthe journey of me getting
realigned.
Certainly there, when you thinkabout leading yourself versus
leading others, what is thething that was the most
difficult for you or morechallenging that you may have
thought when you had thattransitional time?
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Yeah, something that became a theme.
So I had a lot of opportunitiesthat I explored over the couple
of years that I was working onmy own and each one of those, as
I had conversations, what Ithought was there has to be
something compelling enough topull me out of what I'm doing
now to drive me to do somethingelse.
Right, that only makes sense.
But the theme, as I would beengaging in conversations around
(18:40):
opportunities, was I mean, Ireally love what I'm doing.
I got to this place, thiscadence, where I was really
enjoying what I was doing.
I got to choose who I was goingto work for, work with.
I got to choose what I wasgoing to charge.
I mean I really was running theshow right, and what I kept
coming back to was the one partwhere I didn't feel like my cup
was totally filled up was I love?
(19:02):
I am a passionate advocate fordevelopment of others, growing
and developing a team andbuilding people where they can
flourish on their own.
That is like one of my favoritethings in the world and I
didn't have that.
And what I think we don't talkabout enough is there's the.
You know it can be lonely as anentrepreneur.
(19:23):
I mean it can be lonely as aCEO or a COO or in any
leadership role.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
The higher you get, there's this time of loneliness
where it's like, okay, end ofthe day, when I'm debriefing,
I'm debriefing with me or I'mdebriefing with my husband,
right, there's not thatengagement with a team, but more
than anything, it was the pieceof like pouring into people and
I could go in and I didconsulting and so I'd go in and
I'd pour into somebody else'steam, but it wasn't mine, yeah
(20:21):
no-transcript in September, likeeven like honing in on it and
knowing that this was somethingyou were taking action on was
something you were already doingat that point, but then also
making sure that it was going tobe the right fit, like you said
, something that met what youhad defined as what you were
(20:44):
seeking you know whether it's anew role or the type of work and
also you were able to sustainand maintain your
non-negotiables right.
So you kind of had the rubricfor the move right To see the
possibility of what was next.
One of the hardest things forpeople to do is even to see
possibility, see that they couldchange, see that they can think
(21:06):
about something differently orget curious about something In
your mind when either going frominto the entrepreneurial world
or from out of it into the CEOrole that you're in now.
What helped you walk throughforward, into some of those
moments which, for me, there'sfear, there's, you know,
(21:27):
uncertainty, there'severything's not going to be a
slam dunk Like.
That's how I look at it, butthat, to me, is my definition of
bold is you still move forwardanyway.
What were some of the thingsthat helped you see the
possibility and maybe movethrough some of those emotions,
if you had them mindset and ofcourse I didn't know that.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I didn't even know the difference between a fixed
or growth mindset at the time,and so I was probably 35 before
I really started leaning intopersonal development.
So for the first 35 years of mylife I had no idea, really
thought my circumstances, youknow, were what was going to be
right, like it was already inthe cards for whatever it was.
I wasn't going to be able tochange that.
And so I discovered a podcastand I discovered personal
(22:16):
development, and in the last 10years my life has so flourished
in ways where I really believethat where we put forth energy
and effort and hard work and wecan get our mind to a place
where we can explore what'spossible, literally almost
nothing is impossible.
(22:37):
And so I think, as I would havethought 10 years ago, I would
have never thought that I wouldbe in a C-suite position, I
would have never thought that Iwould be building a hospice
company, I would have neverthought any of these things were
possible.
And so I think for the last 10years I've been so on fire for
knowing what is possible andcontinuing to push those
(22:58):
boundaries that it's like, youknow, I feel like I'm just
getting started and that is soexciting to me.
But what's also exciting to meis the ability along the way to
show people.
Number one, being supervulnerable and allowing people
to see like I have screwed up somany things, I have made so
many poor choices in times andled people wrong, but I can have
(23:24):
the hindsight now to see thatthe self-awareness to talk about
it, the vulnerability to bringthat up but also to show other
people like that doesn't makeyou fit into whatever box.
Right, that's a part of lifeand it's a part of lessons and
it's a part of our growth.
So I wholeheartedly embrace allthe screw ups and the potholes
(23:44):
that I stepped in along the way,because now I get to show
people look, I got to this bydoing, you know, with all of
these, all of these potholesthat I stepped in, that's what I
talk about on the podcast.
That's what I talk about.
That was the whole reasonbehind starting it and with my
team, as I'm growing people, I'mgiving them permission to make
(24:04):
choices that maybe a year fromnow you'll go.
I can't believe I made thatchoice and it's still okay and
we learn to do hard thingsbetter.
Right?
We don't have to be perfect.
We don't have to show up fully,fully prepared.
We don't always have to havethe right answers.
It's about really leaning inand figuring out, like, how can
I make sure that I make the bestpossible decision, that I know
(24:27):
how to?
Right now, you know, from ahiring perspective, from a
promoting people, from where I'mgoing to build the next hospice
location, like all of thosethings.
I just feel today like almostnothing, like limitless.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah, because of what I've gone through, yeah, I
think being able to fail andknow that you can learn from it
is a huge gift, right.
Right, I did not know you had afixed mindset.
So, like, obviously, I cameinto like seeing you or meeting
you at a point, probably within,certainly within the last 10
years, within the last threeyears, I think you know.
So what was the moment or howdid you realize that it was
(25:04):
fixed and that you needed tokind of see that there was
something bigger or somethingpossible?
But it might not be certain andyou might fail.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
So the very first, like I said, when I was 35 and I
discovered a podcast and it wasLewis Howe's podcast and it was
through Rory Vaden.
I had heard Rory Vaden onsomething that led me to Lewis
Howe's School of Greatnesspodcast Okay, no-transcript how
(25:58):
and why we do the things that wedo.
And so that exploration thenled to more personal development
and I just was like startedeating up everything I could,
yeah, so it kind of opened thedoor for you to a different way,
and I had to just step back andsay wow, until you know what
those two things really mean.
Between the differences in agrowth and fixed mindset, I
(26:20):
don't even know that you canfully identify with one or the
other, right.
And so once I was looking at, Ididn't think I could really
change my circumstances.
I thought I was a kid who wasbrought up by a single parent,
whose parents divorced, who wasbrought up in poverty, and like
that was just who I was.
That would be what the outcomeof my life would be.
(26:41):
And then all of a sudden I'mlike, wait a second, I can
influence the things that happennext and I hope that the last
10 years I've been exhausting,you know, all of the resources,
like my goal is to just leavehere with an absolutely empty
tank, both for my own life andfor the lives of others, just in
(27:02):
showing people again likeyou're only confined by your own
limitations, by what you thinkin your own mind.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
By your mind, by your belief, right, and I think
that's something for me likewhen I made that change from
corporate to being anentrepreneur, I definitely had a
fixed mindset for what was apotential job I could have and I
think, outside of that but youcan imagine how much this
impacts the rest of your lifewhen you think you can't really
do anything but what you've beendoing.
(27:30):
Outside of that, I felt like Ihad a growth mindset.
I knew that if I failed and youknow, I knew, you know I could
do a lot of things.
But when it came to my job, itwas like, wow, I went to school
for a very long time.
I've been doing this for a verylong time over 20 years.
I'm a chief Like how could Ichange?
Right, you know, I just got tosuck it up and finish it out and
I just got to a point where Icouldn't.
But I be successful, peoplewill want to work with me.
(27:51):
You know, between your ears canbe a really scary place
sometimes about how you speak ortalk to yourself or even think
of the possibility.
So I always say like when Imade that change, which was a
very big change in my life, itwas fueled by belief, belief I
(28:13):
could figure it out, belief Icould do it.
And when you're an entrepreneur, like you had mentioned just a
couple minutes ago, sometimesyou don't feel like you know
what you're doing on a dailybasis, because you're really
just, you know, charting newterritory or pioneering
something that maybe someonehasn't done or done like you're
doing it.
So I think you know seeing thepossibility.
Also, you become an example forothers to see right, and I
(28:34):
think you're obviously doingthat.
You're an example of that and Ithink people should also
realize that their journey istheirs and it shouldn't be, you
know, compared to mine or yoursor anyone else's.
Like make it personal.
And I think that's alsosomething that came into play
was what does success look like?
Right, because for me, the wayI was raised was like it's, you
(28:58):
know, having a 401k, havinginsurance, having a stable job
in a corporate setting where youknow you're covered and in that
sense, like for me, andespecially now in today's world,
like that doesn't mean stableanymore and so, but that's how I
was raised.
So this was a very risky thing,a very I will use the word I
felt selfish leaving, you know.
So I was choosing me.
(29:19):
You know I'm a mom, I'm a wife,like I have, you know, like
I've got big responsibilities,you know.
So how could I do this?
So I had actually redefinedsuccess.
Did you ever feel like you hadto do that, or would that ever
come into play?
What success meant when youwere making this change?
You know, from the corporateworld to entrepreneur and even
(29:39):
entrepreneur back to reallyleading, you know, a new
organization.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, I had to go.
Yeah, because I definitely theshift from corporate to
entrepreneurial space.
I think I, as I look back,identity was also a big thing.
You mentioned that earlier.
Identity was also a big thing.
You mentioned that earlier.
It's the sense of identity, oreven like a fear around losing
relevance.
So it was like, okay, what ismy identity?
(30:05):
How do I define, like?
How do I define success?
How do I define failure, right?
How do I know if I'm succeeding?
And I got to a place where I hadto say, okay, number one, there
has to be a sense of impact.
I have to feel like I'mpositively impacting something,
right?
People matter to me, culturematters to me, and so that's why
(30:26):
impact ranks so high on my list.
I want to make that positiveimpact, that positive ripple,
wherever I go, and that's Ithink that's the intent that I
lead with.
And so am I making a positiveimpact that makes me feel
successful, right?
Am I making a positive impact,not just in the workplace, at
home?
Because I think sometimes wefeel like these are two separate
worlds, when they're not.
We exist in this one big worldand we have to decide where we
(30:51):
lean.
I liken it to those toys when Iwas little, there was this like
oil and water toy and it waslike you shake it up and it'll
start to separate and then youcan see like the colored water
or the colored oil floating ontop of the water.
And I liken it to that becauseit's this fluid balance, right.
Sometimes you're going to likethere is no perfect balance
50-50.
(31:11):
That's just not how it works.
So you have to understand andbe really aware of what those
priorities are, and so sometimesyou're going to lean a little
bit heavier.
That fluid balance is going tolean a little bit more
professionally to your work, toyour role, and sometimes it's
going to have to lean a littleheavier at home.
But if you have that fluidbalance where you're navigating
both of those in one bed ofwater, I think that is where you
(31:35):
can say, okay, am I making animpact in both of these places?
Because that's again that'swhat's really important to me.
And then, second of all, I think, do I feel like I have a sense
of fulfillment around what I'mdoing?
Because I think oftentimes wedo the thing, because we're told
to do the thing, we think wehave to do the thing, but is
that thing checking our box offulfillment.
(31:55):
And so, again, it took me alittle while to get my bearings
in that new space, but once Idid, it was like, okay, I have
these consulting jobs, I'mworking with these companies,
I'm working with these leaders,I'm coaching others.
That really, you know.
Again, that checks that box.
I feel like I'm positivelyimpacting things.
I feel like my sharing of myexperiences and knowledge is
positively impacting things.
I feel like my sharing of myexperiences and knowledge is
(32:16):
positively impacting things.
Able to be more present at home, feel like I'm impacting things
there.
All of that equates to a senseof fulfillment.
So I think, again, it comesdown to those non-negotiables.
I probably didn't definesuccess that way because I was
just in the rat race.
I think that's where my mindwas previously.
So it allowed me to reset myown pace, recalibrate my speed
(32:38):
and get back to the things thatwere truly of importance to me
in my life.
You know, I think we have to goback to what our faith or our
values, what sets thatfoundation for us and for me.
Those things, my faith, myvalues, those are always going
to be the foundation to buildupon.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Right, yeah, and making sure that you bring them
back into focus when they getfuzzy, Right, so I think you
know mine were definitely like Ijust couldn't even see them
anymore because I was justworking so hard.
And I think, getting them backinto focus and I think,
realizing that success isdefined by you and not by
somebody else, Right, I think alot of the times, that success
is defined by you and not bysomebody else, right?
(33:18):
I think a lot of the times,certainly in the corporate world
, it was the next role, the nexttitle, the next level of pay,
and who then tells me I'm goodenough to go to the next one and
what do I need to do?
Like, what's the rubric?
You know, like that's the gameI was playing of.
Like how do I do it all?
Make sure I'm, you know,advancing and doing what I need
to do professionally to get tothe next level.
But you get to the next leveland sometimes you're at the
(33:39):
highest one.
You know, like I was a chief inmy early 40s and I was like
what's next?
You know there is no higherpeak Like this is, so you can't
just keep moving the finish linetoo.
That was probably the firstindicator of like.
(34:01):
I'm not sure this is success,but I was still defining my life
by it for some reason.
So I kind of missed some ofthat signal there.
And then I think some of theother signals were just around
the misalignment and how I wouldjust work harder or longer and
fix it.
And it worked, but notrealizing it was more of a
bandaid than something thatwould last forever.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, short-term, non-sustainable fix.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Exactly so as we close out, I think one of the
things that were on theconversation was just seeing
possibility and being able to door think about or get curious
about something that is a changeor may ultimately mean you need
to take action or do somethingdifferently.
What would be your guidance oradvice for someone to take that
(34:44):
first step of curiosity andthinking, just thinking about
the possibility?
What would be your advice tothem?
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Yeah, I think people should explore those wild
thoughts, those wild dreams thatthey have, that they'd never
say out loud, the ones thatpeople you feel like people
would laugh at you about.
That seems so far-fetched.
Start exploring those in yourmind and you know I'm a big fan
of, like gratitude journals orjournaling in general, because I
(35:13):
think what we put down on paper, it's that memorization right,
like we're absorbing all ofthese things.
You can even call itmanifestation.
But I think what we put down ina present form starts to have
our mind think differently aboutit.
And so far before I was doing alot of things that I'm doing
today, I was writing those as ifI were existing in those in
(35:36):
present form.
And so I think from your mind,like you don't even have to say
these things out loud or act onthem yet, but think about them.
Start exploring wild ideas.
What would be those if you knewyou couldn't fail?
What would you do?
And then start writing themdown.
Start writing some things downand entertaining them, because
it's more about baby steps thanit is these gigantic steps, 100%
(35:57):
.
And so go from thinking aboutit to writing some things down.
You may find yourself startingto think about exploring those a
little bit more and whateversmall action you can take that
leads you outside of your placeof comfort.
I think sometimes we mistakethis place of comfort for like a
(36:18):
safe place, and it's really not.
I mean, there is so much lifeoutside of our comfort zone, and
so I would encourage people toreally explore.
If you could put one tiptoeoutside of your zone of comfort,
how would you do that?
What would that feel like?
Like you almost have to feelthe sense of trepidation, or
(36:39):
your heart's starting to pound,or your face starting to flush
at the mere thought of puttingyour toe outside of that comfort
zone to explore that wild idea.
And every time you do that,your brain is going to say hey,
wait a second, you're getting alittle more brave, you're
getting a little more bold.
How do we get you to step intothis?
And it starts believing itbefore.
Probably, you start believingit, and so that's what I would
(37:00):
encourage people to do.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Yeah, I always say, like your bold step leads to
more confidence, which leads toyou feeling you have more agency
in your life, or control ofyour next steps, which leads to
the next bold step, which leadsto confidence and agency.
So it's like, once the wheelsare turning, it's kind of like
the train has left the stationand there is so much power in
(37:22):
writing it down.
And there is a recent book byDr Doty, d-o-t-y and really
talking about the manifestationprocess and how it actually
rewires your brain and there'scertain steps.
It's not just writing it down,but it's like saying it out loud
, visualizing it and continuallydoing that.
It really does literally startto rewire your brain of how you
(37:44):
think about yourself and youthink about the possibility.
So I love that you bring thatup.
Thank you so much for being onthe Bold Lounge, for sharing
your inspiring, bold journey.
All the information about Sunny, how to contact her and follow
her on LinkedIn and all herother socials is below.
Thank you so much, sunny, mypleasure.
Thank you for listening to theBold Lounge podcast.
(38:06):
Through the continuum of boldstories, vulnerability to taking
a leap, you will meet moreextraordinary people making a
positive impact for othersthrough their unique and
important story.
By highlighting these stories,we hope to inspire others and
share the journey of those witha bold mindset.
We hope you've enjoyed thispodcast and look forward to
sharing the next bold journey.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Thank you so much for listening and for being here on
this journey with me.
I hope you'll stick around Ifyou liked this episode.
It would mean the world for meif you would rate and review the
podcast or share it withsomeone you know may need to
hear this message.
I love to hear from you all andwant you to know that you can
leave me a voicemail directly.
If you go to my website,evokegreatnesscom, and go to the
contact me tab, you'll just hitthe big old orange button and
(38:52):
record your message.
I love the feedback andcomments that I've been getting,
so please keep them coming.
I'll leave you with the wisewords of author Robin Sharma
Greatness comes by doing a fewsmall and smart things each and
every day.
It comes from taking littlesteps consistently.
It comes from making a fewsmall chips against everything
(39:14):
in your professional andpersonal life that is ordinary,
so that a day eventually arriveswhen all that's left is the
extraordinary.
Welcome to Evoke Greatness.
We are officially entering yearthree of this podcast and I am
filled with so much gratitudefor each and every one of you
who've joined me on thisincredible journey of growth and
self-discovery.
I'm Sunny, your host and fellowtraveler on this path of
personal evolution.
This podcast is a sanctuary forthe curious, the ambitious and
(00:28):
the introspective.
It's for those of you who, likeme, are captivated by the
champion mindset and driven byan insatiable hunger for growth
and knowledge.
Whether you're just beginningyour journey or you're well
along your path, you're going tofind stories here that resonate
with your experiences andaspirations.
Over the last two years, we'veshared countless stories of
triumph and challenge, ofresilience and transformation.
(00:51):
We've laughed, we've reflectedand we've grown together.
And as we've evolved, so toohas this podcast.
Remember, no matter whatchapter you're on in your own
story, you belong here.
This community we've builttogether is a place of support,
inspiration and shared growth.
Where intention goes, energyflows, and the energy you bring
(01:13):
to this space elevates us all.
So, whether you're listeningwhile commuting, working out or
enjoying your morning coffee,perhaps from one of those
motivational mugs I'm so fond of, know that you're a part of
something special.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for your curiosity,your openness and your
commitment to personal growth.
As we embark on year three, Iinvite you to lean in, to listen
(01:36):
deeply and to let these storiesresonate with your soul.
I believe that a rising tideraises all ships and I invite
you along in this journey toevoke greatness.
(01:56):
Hey everybody, welcome back thisweek.
I have something a littledifferent for you.
I was recently a guest on theBold Lounge podcast with my good
friend Leigh Burgess.
Usually I'm on this side of themicrophone interviewing someone
else.
This time you're going to hearthe episode that she aired.
That has me being interviewed.
I hope you enjoy it.
Let's hop into it.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Welcome to the Bold Lounge podcast.
My name is Leigh Burgess and Iwill be your host.
If you're anything like me, youlove hearing inspiring stories
of people who have gone on boldjourneys and made a positive
impact in the world.
This podcast is all about thosekinds of stories.
Every week, we'll hear fromsomeone who has taken a lead or
embarked on an extraordinaryjourney.
(02:36):
In addition to hearing theirstories, we'll also learn about
their bold growth mindset thatthey use to make things happen.
Whether they faced challengesor doubts along the way, they
persisted and ultimatelyachieved their goals.
These impactful stories willleave you feeling motivated and
inspired to pursue your own boldjourney.
I believe everyone has a boldstory waiting to be freed.
(02:58):
Tune in and get ready to beinspired.
Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
Today I have Sunny Leinberger.
Sunny is a maverick in thehospice space, stitching
together the fabric ofleadership, innovation and care,
with the position of a seasonednurse and the vision of a CEO.
With over two decades in thetrenches of healthcare, sunny
(03:18):
has journeyed from CNA to CEO, apath that's anything but linear
.
She's the CEO for Cadre Hospiceand is disrupting the industry
through world-class end-of-lifecare.
She is also the host of theEvoke Greatness podcast.
Ranked in the top 3% globally,her podcast is a light for the
lifelong learners and thosehungry for the real lessons
(03:39):
behind leadership and success.
Sunny's philosophy People matter.
Cultivating a culture thatbreathes empathy and empowerment
is not just her passion but hermission, through mentorship,
development and transformation.
Sunny isn't just in thebusiness of healthcare, she's in
the business of human potential.
Welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much.
(03:59):
Excited to be here with you,leigh yeah.
So we had some freeconversation and I'm excited to
kind of get into thenitty-gritty of being bold and
what bold looks like in yourlife.
So let's just start with yourdefinition.
How do you define bold?
Speaker 1 (04:12):
I think bold is, as I kind of step back and think
about it bold is thatexploration of what's possible
for ourselves, and I think thatdoesn't even require I think
some people get scared by thatand think it requires action.
But before action comes, thethought around it.
Right, we have to explore first.
(04:33):
Is this you know what ispossible?
Like in my mind, what ispossible?
And so I think that piece to methat's really when I started
exploring what was possible,started to see a complete shift
in my life, and so it's not evenabout necessarily the action,
even the thought, theexploration of thought around
what's possible for people, yeah, so sometimes even just
(04:53):
thinking makes people nervous,right, like oh, where did that
come from?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
That thought came up and like that feels bold, that
feels like change, that feelslike I'll need to do something
about that.
Right, and even just thatcoming up, I think, is a moment
for people not to push away, andso I love that you bring it up,
that it's not always like amove, and that's where I
generally talk about.
Bold moves are on a continuumone being very, very quiet,
(05:18):
which is the one you maybe justdefined.
Two, the ones that everybodysees, and maybe louder.
So when you think of your boldmoment and a moment in your life
that kind of resonates withthat definition, what comes up
for you?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, I would say my current season.
I'm feeling really bold in mycurrent season and I think
different seasons bringdifferent things for us.
But just stepping in,reflecting back on my journey,
as you mentioned in the intro, Istarted out my career as a CNA.
For people who don't know whatthat is, it's a nursing
assistant.
It's the person who changespeople's bed linens and, for the
(05:52):
elderly, helps bathe themThings like that that are not,
you know, any high-ranking typeof work.
It's really the bottom rung,but it's some of the most
meaningful work that I did.
And to think that I startedthere and that I just stepped
into a CEO role, there's a lotof exploring what's possible for
me in my mind and envisioningwhat that looks like, how I'm
(06:12):
going to grow this company, theteam that I'm building, and so I
think I'm really feeling like aseason of ascension or boldness
right now.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
And why do you call it season?
So let me you know, a lot ofpeople talk about different
phases of their life or levelsof their life.
For you, it's a season.
So what does a season mean foryou?
Speaker 1 (06:31):
And I think right now it's really being present in
where I am and evaluating all ofthe things that are around me.
So this new role, thetransition back to traveling a
bit and being in a space, acorporate space, that I was in
(06:53):
previously after stepping out ofan entrepreneurial role, and so
this season is an adjustment athome.
This season is an adjustment inthis role.
It's really just like allencompassing where I am right
now and in this season.
I'm really just like allencompassing where I am right
now and in this season I'mpreparing myself for the next
season.
So it's like a continual timeof being present, but also
preparation for the next seasonand, I think, gratitude for the
(07:15):
previous season.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Right, yeah, so you weren't always in the space
you're in now.
So obviously there's a lot inbetween going from CNA to CEO
and in life experience and alsoin our, you know, professional
world as well.
So along the way, kind of youand I remember seeing you and
you know you and I have talkedabout this you had a LinkedIn
post and that's where weinitially connected and you were
(07:38):
advocating and that's to me thepost and that's to me the post.
I don't know if you rememberwhich post it was, but you were
kind of like in the car andyou're like getting ready to go
in and really advocate, I think,for your patients inside, and
so it was just a really cutepost and showed your personality
and also your wow, she's reallyin the right space for what she
(08:06):
loves to do, Like she's aligned, and that was like at that
point I was looking foralignment.
I had left, you know, thecorporate world and was starting
my entrepreneurial journey.
So for you, from that spacethat you were in there to the
season now, you did have somemoments of you know figuring
things out or you know definingwhat's next for you, what
happened between that post orthat moment in time to where you
(08:29):
are now, and what have youlearned about yourself in those
seasons that you went throughbefore now?
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, well, I think, just rewinding back a little bit
, I was in the corporate spacefor a long period of time been
in healthcare for 20 years, alittle over 20 years and I was
the chief operating officer fora national hospice company and
did 33 acquisitions inside threeand a half years.
And I mean, we had our rollerskates on and we were growing.
There was a lot happening and Iwas also so caught up in that
(09:00):
that I was letting my healtherode and I was approaching my
wall.
You know, a number of thingsoccurred that I thought I don't
know if I can keep up with thisand ended up going to the doctor
and have a thyroid issue, andthat is exacerbated by stress,
(09:20):
and so, gee, why can't I keep mylevels?
Great, well, because I'mconstantly in this environment
of stress.
So I really had to step back andkind of evaluate my life and my
role in large company.
Would you say you were burntout or not?
Absolutely Okay, absolutely,yeah, but it's almost hard to
recognize that you're burnt outor not?
Absolutely Okay, absolutely,yeah, but it's almost hard to
recognize that you're burnt outin the moment.
I mean, I know, you know thatall too well.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Everyone else knows it, but you like.
That's how I felt you know, youknow, you've heard my story, so
it was extreme level of burnoutthat I was like, oh well, I'll
just keep doing the same thingover and over, and so a little
similarity in the sense of itwas my health for me, like you,
a different, obviously thing.
But I think I got to the pointwhere, like well, I have to like
, there is no choice, I have todo something different.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
You hit the wall and you don't quite realize you hit
the wall until other peoplerecognize you're sliding down
the wall at that point in time,when other people are like hey,
yeah, and and.
So that's where I was and Idecided to step away from that
role, which is really hard forme because it was like I felt
like I'd worked my whole lifetowards that role.
So I decided to step back outof that and I thought what am I
(10:23):
going to do?
I'm bound by a non-compete, youknow.
So I'm a little doing hospice,consulting, executive coaching.
I had my podcast, I did somekeynote speaking, and so I
stayed in that space for abouttwo years.
But that was a reallychallenging transition because I
(10:44):
was used to though it was whatpulled me away from my corporate
role.
We're used to that chaos thatwe're in.
That we're in and I think thatwas a big challenge was going
from the state of chaos to thenbeing home.
I had run a healthcare companythrough COVID, and so then, all
of a sudden, we're kind ofcoming out of the pandemic,
things are starting to normalizeand I'm at home, working by
(11:07):
myself, starting this company,really, if I'm honest, having a
little clue as to what I wasdoing and I hired a coach right
away.
And what my coach said to meabout 60 days in?
She said, sunny, I have to tellyou this jail cell that you're
in the door is open.
You'd have to make the decisionto walk out of it.
And I thought, oh, wow.
So I was keeping myself in thisstate of, like internal chaos
(11:31):
because I didn't know how totransition out of the chaos and
into this new environment whereI didn't have 10 calls a day and
I wasn't working till 7 pm.
There's some days, as anentrepreneur, you may not have
any calls.
And so it was this battlingwith like, am I completely
failing at this?
Okay, no, I'm getting business,I'm creating things, and it was
(11:51):
just.
It was a really weird place tobe, and it was probably about
three months that it took me totransition to that space before
I started feeling like, okay,I'm creating my own new pace.
But I think one of the mostimportant things that I learned
in that and again, like by wayof, I'm such a fan of coaching
and what that can bring ifyou're really open to the
process my coach said to me,something that you need to get
(12:14):
really clear on is yournon-negotiables, because I think
those lines were blurred inthis corporate world and you did
what had to be done.
You figured it out and I thinkthat was what I did a lot of
work on was understanding whatmy non-negotiables were, and if
I was ever going to exploregoing back into it, I would have
to make sure that all of thoseboxes were checked, that I was
(12:35):
crystal clear on communicatingand articulating those, and so I
was able to kind of build theconstruct under my
non-negotiables and what Iwanted for the future, and I
think that really helped me stepinto, when the time was right,
a really amazing opportunitythat I feel like now was built
for me.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah.
So you went from leading othersto really having to lead
yourself.
Right In my mind, like when Iwent through that phase of like
having a day very, very definedfor me of what I had to do,
where I needed to be, who Ineeded to support, you know, it
was very, very clear to whoa,like I don't, you know, like you
(13:17):
said, I don't have to have 20meetings today, I don't have to
travel, I don't have to doanything I don't want to do.
But what is it that I want todo?
And who am I?
Like?
I was having this like who theheck am I now?
You know, I was 48 at thatpoint and I was like I could be
anything I want to be.
What do I want to do?
Like you said, kind of arecalibration of your
non-negotiables and for me, myvalues.
(13:38):
Like I was very misaligned withmy values of how I spent my
time, my health, myrelationships, like I had work
to do on every level of healthpossible.
So in that sense, it was likerealigning to that and also
realizing that I missed all thesigns when I was out of
alignment, because I thinkthat's one thing that I know,
you realize, but to make sureothers is like just because you
leave one place doesn't mean youwon't have those same habits
(13:59):
that come back.
That could burn you out again.
Even as an entrepreneur, youcan burn yourself out.
So I think being able to alsohave some time around that is
really important.
So for you, what became anon-negotiable or what were some
of your non-negotiables thatyou really wanted to make sure
as you move forward in thisseason and forward into your
life, that weren't going to belost again or maybe not be as
(14:22):
defined as you know they havebeen in the past will be out
there in bold letters versusmaybe just to the side yeah, I
think the um, the connectionthat I had had early on in my
career was I have to go ahundred miles an hour and I have
on in my career was I have togo 100 miles an hour and I have
to sacrifice things.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
I'm going to have to sacrifice time with my family
and, fortunately, early on in mycareer my husband was like, hey
, go after it, go ahead, I'llhold down things at home.
And my boys were little when Istarted in larger cork rolls and
I missed some things and I hadmy priorities skewed for a while
.
I thought, in order to, I wasso filled with ambition and
(15:03):
drive that I thought I had tosacrifice.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Well, we felt like we had to make a choice right.
I remember my mom and mybrother and everyone, like our
little tribe helping take careof Maya when she was tiny.
So I was still in school, I wasgetting my master's, I was
working two jobs, you're doingwhat you have to do and it
almost feels like you don't atleast I felt.
(15:26):
I don't know if you ever feltlike that.
You didn't have a choice.
You either went for the role,the degree, the job, or you had
a family.
I think it's hopefully betternow but I don't know.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Yeah, so early on, I think I missed things and I had
my priorities skewed.
What I realized over that timewas I determine those priorities
and I can choose to go all inon work and be not what my
family needs me to be by way ofbeing a mom, a wife, a leader at
(15:56):
home, or and this is a thingthat I think is still maybe not
the most popular opinion Ibelieve wholeheartedly that we
can have it all.
I think what that looks like isa little different for everyone
, but I really believe that wecan have it all, and so today,
how I look at it is, mynon-negotiables are if I have
(16:18):
priorities at home, if I haveevents for my kids, that's going
to come first, and so I want tobe really clear about it.
Let me make sure that you knoweveryone's aligned and on the
same page.
Other day, for a role that I'mhiring for and they said well,
you know I'm totally okay withtravel.
I just want to let you know,like there's one thing that's
(16:38):
really important to me, andthat's my daughter's prom and
it's, you know, it's later inthe year.
But like I just that'ssomething I want to make sure
I'm really clear about and Isaid you know I would be
concerned if you didn't say thatabout articulating those and
saying, hey, this is what'sreally important to me.
If your company, if your leader, doesn't support that, you
(17:00):
should probably look at thatopportunity.
I said there's things for me.
If I have something importantgoing, I'm going to let you guys
know that I'm not going to beable to attend something,
because I think when we reallybuild ourselves up on a strong
sense of support and foundationpersonally, that allows us to
flourish and pour inprofessionally.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, so being able to advocate for yourself, I
think, is really, reallyimportant, hearing that and good
for that person and saying whatwas important to them, because
I don't know if we all have donethat.
I know I certainly didn't dothat earlier on in my career and
, like you said, you miss thingsand you think about the things
that you could have but youcan't go back to, but you can
change, moving forward.
(17:39):
So I think that's one of thekey things for folks to hear is
like, what do you want to talkabout now that is your
non-negotiable, and how can youtalk about it, whether it's with
you know, whether it's in yourrelationships or whether it's at
your work or some of the thingsthat you may be doing
personally.
Like, just really think aboutthose non-negotiables and you
can reset.
And I think that's thepossibility here that you know
(18:00):
you're sharing and certainly inthe journey of me getting
realigned.
Certainly there, when you thinkabout leading yourself versus
leading others, what is thething that was the most
difficult for you or morechallenging that you may have
thought when you had thattransitional time?
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Yeah, something that became a theme.
So I had a lot of opportunitiesthat I explored over the couple
of years that I was working onmy own and each one of those, as
I had conversations, what Ithought was there has to be
something compelling enough topull me out of what I'm doing
now to drive me to do somethingelse.
Right, that only makes sense.
But the theme, as I would beengaging in conversations around
(18:40):
opportunities, was I mean, Ireally love what I'm doing.
I got to this place, thiscadence, where I was really
enjoying what I was doing.
I got to choose who I was goingto work for, work with.
I got to choose what I wasgoing to charge.
I mean I really was running theshow right, and what I kept
coming back to was the one partwhere I didn't feel like my cup
was totally filled up was I love?
(19:02):
I am a passionate advocate fordevelopment of others, growing
and developing a team andbuilding people where they can
flourish on their own.
That is like one of my favoritethings in the world and I
didn't have that.
And what I think we don't talkabout enough is there's the.
You know it can be lonely as anentrepreneur.
(19:23):
I mean it can be lonely as aCEO or a COO or in any
leadership role.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
The higher you get, there's this time of loneliness
where it's like, okay, end ofthe day, when I'm debriefing,
I'm debriefing with me or I'mdebriefing with my husband,
right, there's not thatengagement with a team, but more
than anything, it was the pieceof like pouring into people and
I could go in and I didconsulting and so I'd go in and
I'd pour into somebody else'steam, but it wasn't mine, yeah
(20:21):
no-transcript in September, likeeven like honing in on it and
knowing that this was somethingyou were taking action on was
something you were already doingat that point, but then also
making sure that it was going tobe the right fit, like you said
, something that met what youhad defined as what you were
(20:44):
seeking you know whether it's anew role or the type of work and
also you were able to sustainand maintain your
non-negotiables right.
So you kind of had the rubricfor the move right To see the
possibility of what was next.
One of the hardest things forpeople to do is even to see
possibility, see that they couldchange, see that they can think
(21:06):
about something differently orget curious about something In
your mind when either going frominto the entrepreneurial world
or from out of it into the CEOrole that you're in now.
What helped you walk throughforward, into some of those
moments which, for me, there'sfear, there's, you know,
(21:27):
uncertainty, there'severything's not going to be a
slam dunk Like.
That's how I look at it, butthat, to me, is my definition of
bold is you still move forwardanyway.
What were some of the thingsthat helped you see the
possibility and maybe movethrough some of those emotions,
if you had them mindset and ofcourse I didn't know that.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I didn't even know the difference between a fixed
or growth mindset at the time,and so I was probably 35 before
I really started leaning intopersonal development.
So for the first 35 years of mylife I had no idea, really
thought my circumstances, youknow, were what was going to be
right, like it was already inthe cards for whatever it was.
I wasn't going to be able tochange that.
And so I discovered a podcastand I discovered personal
(22:16):
development, and in the last 10years my life has so flourished
in ways where I really believethat where we put forth energy
and effort and hard work and wecan get our mind to a place
where we can explore what'spossible, literally almost
nothing is impossible.
(22:37):
And so I think, as I would havethought 10 years ago, I would
have never thought that I wouldbe in a C-suite position, I
would have never thought that Iwould be building a hospice
company, I would have neverthought any of these things were
possible.
And so I think for the last 10years I've been so on fire for
knowing what is possible andcontinuing to push those
(22:58):
boundaries that it's like, youknow, I feel like I'm just
getting started and that is soexciting to me.
But what's also exciting to meis the ability along the way to
show people.
Number one, being supervulnerable and allowing people
to see like I have screwed up somany things, I have made so
many poor choices in times andled people wrong, but I can have
(23:24):
the hindsight now to see thatthe self-awareness to talk about
it, the vulnerability to bringthat up but also to show other
people like that doesn't makeyou fit into whatever box.
Right, that's a part of lifeand it's a part of lessons and
it's a part of our growth.
So I wholeheartedly embrace allthe screw ups and the potholes
(23:44):
that I stepped in along the way,because now I get to show
people look, I got to this bydoing, you know, with all of
these, all of these potholesthat I stepped in, that's what I
talk about on the podcast.
That's what I talk about.
That was the whole reasonbehind starting it and with my
team, as I'm growing people, I'mgiving them permission to make
(24:04):
choices that maybe a year fromnow you'll go.
I can't believe I made thatchoice and it's still okay and
we learn to do hard thingsbetter.
Right?
We don't have to be perfect.
We don't have to show up fully,fully prepared.
We don't always have to havethe right answers.
It's about really leaning inand figuring out, like, how can
I make sure that I make the bestpossible decision, that I know
(24:27):
how to?
Right now, you know, from ahiring perspective, from a
promoting people, from where I'mgoing to build the next hospice
location, like all of thosethings.
I just feel today like almostnothing, like limitless.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah, because of what I've gone through, yeah, I
think being able to fail andknow that you can learn from it
is a huge gift, right.
Right, I did not know you had afixed mindset.
So, like, obviously, I cameinto like seeing you or meeting
you at a point, probably within,certainly within the last 10
years, within the last threeyears, I think you know.
So what was the moment or howdid you realize that it was
(25:04):
fixed and that you needed tokind of see that there was
something bigger or somethingpossible?
But it might not be certain andyou might fail.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
So the very first, like I said, when I was 35 and I
discovered a podcast and it wasLewis Howe's podcast and it was
through Rory Vaden.
I had heard Rory Vaden onsomething that led me to Lewis
Howe's School of Greatnesspodcast Okay, no-transcript how
(25:58):
and why we do the things that wedo.
And so that exploration thenled to more personal development
and I just was like startedeating up everything I could,
yeah, so it kind of opened thedoor for you to a different way,
and I had to just step back andsay wow, until you know what
those two things really mean.
Between the differences in agrowth and fixed mindset, I
(26:20):
don't even know that you canfully identify with one or the
other, right.
And so once I was looking at, Ididn't think I could really
change my circumstances.
I thought I was a kid who wasbrought up by a single parent,
whose parents divorced, who wasbrought up in poverty, and like
that was just who I was.
That would be what the outcomeof my life would be.
(26:41):
And then all of a sudden I'mlike, wait a second, I can
influence the things that happennext and I hope that the last
10 years I've been exhausting,you know, all of the resources,
like my goal is to just leavehere with an absolutely empty
tank, both for my own life andfor the lives of others, just in
(27:02):
showing people again likeyou're only confined by your own
limitations, by what you thinkin your own mind.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
By your mind, by your belief, right, and I think
that's something for me likewhen I made that change from
corporate to being anentrepreneur, I definitely had a
fixed mindset for what was apotential job I could have and I
think, outside of that but youcan imagine how much this
impacts the rest of your lifewhen you think you can't really
do anything but what you've beendoing.
(27:30):
Outside of that, I felt like Ihad a growth mindset.
I knew that if I failed and youknow, I knew, you know I could
do a lot of things.
But when it came to my job, itwas like, wow, I went to school
for a very long time.
I've been doing this for a verylong time over 20 years.
I'm a chief Like how could Ichange?
Right, you know, I just got tosuck it up and finish it out and
I just got to a point where Icouldn't.
But I be successful, peoplewill want to work with me.
(27:51):
You know, between your ears canbe a really scary place
sometimes about how you speak ortalk to yourself or even think
of the possibility.
So I always say like when Imade that change, which was a
very big change in my life, itwas fueled by belief, belief I
(28:13):
could figure it out, belief Icould do it.
And when you're an entrepreneur, like you had mentioned just a
couple minutes ago, sometimesyou don't feel like you know
what you're doing on a dailybasis, because you're really
just, you know, charting newterritory or pioneering
something that maybe someonehasn't done or done like you're
doing it.
So I think you know seeing thepossibility.
Also, you become an example forothers to see right, and I
(28:34):
think you're obviously doingthat.
You're an example of that and Ithink people should also
realize that their journey istheirs and it shouldn't be, you
know, compared to mine or yoursor anyone else's.
Like make it personal.
And I think that's alsosomething that came into play
was what does success look like?
Right, because for me, the wayI was raised was like it's, you
(28:58):
know, having a 401k, havinginsurance, having a stable job
in a corporate setting where youknow you're covered and in that
sense, like for me, andespecially now in today's world,
like that doesn't mean stableanymore and so, but that's how I
was raised.
So this was a very risky thing,a very I will use the word I
felt selfish leaving, you know.
So I was choosing me.
(29:19):
You know I'm a mom, I'm a wife,like I have, you know, like
I've got big responsibilities,you know.
So how could I do this?
So I had actually redefinedsuccess.
Did you ever feel like you hadto do that, or would that ever
come into play?
What success meant when youwere making this change?
You know, from the corporateworld to entrepreneur and even
(29:39):
entrepreneur back to reallyleading, you know, a new
organization.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, I had to go.
Yeah, because I definitely theshift from corporate to
entrepreneurial space.
I think I, as I look back,identity was also a big thing.
You mentioned that earlier.
Identity was also a big thing.
You mentioned that earlier.
It's the sense of identity, oreven like a fear around losing
relevance.
So it was like, okay, what ismy identity?
(30:05):
How do I define, like?
How do I define success?
How do I define failure, right?
How do I know if I'm succeeding?
And I got to a place where I hadto say, okay, number one, there
has to be a sense of impact.
I have to feel like I'mpositively impacting something,
right?
People matter to me, culturematters to me, and so that's why
(30:26):
impact ranks so high on my list.
I want to make that positiveimpact, that positive ripple,
wherever I go, and that's Ithink that's the intent that I
lead with.
And so am I making a positiveimpact that makes me feel
successful, right?
Am I making a positive impact,not just in the workplace, at
home?
Because I think sometimes wefeel like these are two separate
worlds, when they're not.
We exist in this one big worldand we have to decide where we
(30:51):
lean.
I liken it to those toys when Iwas little, there was this like
oil and water toy and it waslike you shake it up and it'll
start to separate and then youcan see like the colored water
or the colored oil floating ontop of the water.
And I liken it to that becauseit's this fluid balance, right.
Sometimes you're going to likethere is no perfect balance
50-50.
(31:11):
That's just not how it works.
So you have to understand andbe really aware of what those
priorities are, and so sometimesyou're going to lean a little
bit heavier.
That fluid balance is going tolean a little bit more
professionally to your work, toyour role, and sometimes it's
going to have to lean a littleheavier at home.
But if you have that fluidbalance where you're navigating
both of those in one bed ofwater, I think that is where you
(31:35):
can say, okay, am I making animpact in both of these places?
Because that's again that'swhat's really important to me.
And then, second of all, I think, do I feel like I have a sense
of fulfillment around what I'mdoing?
Because I think oftentimes wedo the thing, because we're told
to do the thing, we think wehave to do the thing, but is
that thing checking our box offulfillment.
(31:55):
And so, again, it took me alittle while to get my bearings
in that new space, but once Idid, it was like, okay, I have
these consulting jobs, I'mworking with these companies,
I'm working with these leaders,I'm coaching others.
That really, you know.
Again, that checks that box.
I feel like I'm positivelyimpacting things.
I feel like my sharing of myexperiences and knowledge is
positively impacting things.
I feel like my sharing of myexperiences and knowledge is
(32:16):
positively impacting things.
Able to be more present at home, feel like I'm impacting things
there.
All of that equates to a senseof fulfillment.
So I think, again, it comesdown to those non-negotiables.
I probably didn't definesuccess that way because I was
just in the rat race.
I think that's where my mindwas previously.
So it allowed me to reset myown pace, recalibrate my speed
(32:38):
and get back to the things thatwere truly of importance to me
in my life.
You know, I think we have to goback to what our faith or our
values, what sets thatfoundation for us and for me.
Those things, my faith, myvalues, those are always going
to be the foundation to buildupon.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Right, yeah, and making sure that you bring them
back into focus when they getfuzzy, Right, so I think you
know mine were definitely like Ijust couldn't even see them
anymore because I was justworking so hard.
And I think, getting them backinto focus and I think,
realizing that success isdefined by you and not by
somebody else, Right, I think alot of the times, that success
is defined by you and not bysomebody else, right?
(33:18):
I think a lot of the times,certainly in the corporate world
, it was the next role, the nexttitle, the next level of pay,
and who then tells me I'm goodenough to go to the next one and
what do I need to do?
Like, what's the rubric?
You know, like that's the gameI was playing of.
Like how do I do it all?
Make sure I'm, you know,advancing and doing what I need
to do professionally to get tothe next level.
But you get to the next leveland sometimes you're at the
(33:39):
highest one.
You know, like I was a chief inmy early 40s and I was like
what's next?
You know there is no higherpeak Like this is, so you can't
just keep moving the finish linetoo.
That was probably the firstindicator of like.
(34:01):
I'm not sure this is success,but I was still defining my life
by it for some reason.
So I kind of missed some ofthat signal there.
And then I think some of theother signals were just around
the misalignment and how I wouldjust work harder or longer and
fix it.
And it worked, but notrealizing it was more of a
bandaid than something thatwould last forever.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, short-term, non-sustainable fix.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Exactly so as we close out, I think one of the
things that were on theconversation was just seeing
possibility and being able to door think about or get curious
about something that is a changeor may ultimately mean you need
to take action or do somethingdifferently.
What would be your guidance oradvice for someone to take that
(34:44):
first step of curiosity andthinking, just thinking about
the possibility?
What would be your advice tothem?
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Yeah, I think people should explore those wild
thoughts, those wild dreams thatthey have, that they'd never
say out loud, the ones thatpeople you feel like people
would laugh at you about.
That seems so far-fetched.
Start exploring those in yourmind and you know I'm a big fan
of, like gratitude journals orjournaling in general, because I
(35:13):
think what we put down on paper, it's that memorization right,
like we're absorbing all ofthese things.
You can even call itmanifestation.
But I think what we put down ina present form starts to have
our mind think differently aboutit.
And so far before I was doing alot of things that I'm doing
today, I was writing those as ifI were existing in those in
(35:36):
present form.
And so I think from your mind,like you don't even have to say
these things out loud or act onthem yet, but think about them.
Start exploring wild ideas.
What would be those if you knewyou couldn't fail?
What would you do?
And then start writing themdown.
Start writing some things downand entertaining them, because
it's more about baby steps thanit is these gigantic steps, 100%
(35:57):
.
And so go from thinking aboutit to writing some things down.
You may find yourself startingto think about exploring those a
little bit more and whateversmall action you can take that
leads you outside of your placeof comfort.
I think sometimes we mistakethis place of comfort for like a
(36:18):
safe place, and it's really not.
I mean, there is so much lifeoutside of our comfort zone, and
so I would encourage people toreally explore.
If you could put one tiptoeoutside of your zone of comfort,
how would you do that?
What would that feel like?
Like you almost have to feelthe sense of trepidation, or
(36:39):
your heart's starting to pound,or your face starting to flush
at the mere thought of puttingyour toe outside of that comfort
zone to explore that wild idea.
And every time you do that,your brain is going to say hey,
wait a second, you're getting alittle more brave, you're
getting a little more bold.
How do we get you to step intothis?
And it starts believing itbefore.
Probably, you start believingit, and so that's what I would
(37:00):
encourage people to do.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Yeah, I always say, like your bold step leads to
more confidence, which leads toyou feeling you have more agency
in your life, or control ofyour next steps, which leads to
the next bold step, which leadsto confidence and agency.
So it's like, once the wheelsare turning, it's kind of like
the train has left the stationand there is so much power in
(37:22):
writing it down.
And there is a recent book byDr Doty, d-o-t-y and really
talking about the manifestationprocess and how it actually
rewires your brain and there'scertain steps.
It's not just writing it down,but it's like saying it out loud
, visualizing it and continuallydoing that.
It really does literally startto rewire your brain of how you
(37:44):
think about yourself and youthink about the possibility.
So I love that you bring thatup.
Thank you so much for being onthe Bold Lounge, for sharing
your inspiring, bold journey.
All the information about Sunny, how to contact her and follow
her on LinkedIn and all herother socials is below.
Thank you so much, sunny, mypleasure.
Thank you for listening to theBold Lounge podcast.
(38:06):
Through the continuum of boldstories, vulnerability to taking
a leap, you will meet moreextraordinary people making a
positive impact for othersthrough their unique and
important story.
By highlighting these stories,we hope to inspire others and
share the journey of those witha bold mindset.
We hope you've enjoyed thispodcast and look forward to
sharing the next bold journey.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Thank you so much for listening and for being here on
this journey with me.
I hope you'll stick around Ifyou liked this episode.
It would mean the world for meif you would rate and review the
podcast or share it withsomeone you know may need to
hear this message.
I love to hear from you all andwant you to know that you can
leave me a voicemail directly.
If you go to my website,evokegreatnesscom, and go to the
contact me tab, you'll just hitthe big old orange button and
(38:52):
record your message.
I love the feedback andcomments that I've been getting,
so please keep them coming.
I'll leave you with the wisewords of author Robin Sharma
Greatness comes by doing a fewsmall and smart things each and
every day.
It comes from taking littlesteps consistently.
It comes from making a fewsmall chips against everything
(39:14):
in your professional andpersonal life that is ordinary,
so that a day eventually arriveswhen all that's left is the
extraordinary.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com