January 1, 2025 • 32 mins
🎧 Ep. 150 The Human Side of Leadership: Building Lasting Impact with Dr. Mandolen Mull (Part 2)
In this powerful conclusion, Dr. Mull opens up about the profound shift from chasing external validation to finding true purpose through serving others. From transforming her LinkedIn presence into a storytelling sanctuary to helping ironworkers embrace vulnerability, she reveals how authentic leadership creates ripples of lasting change.
We dive deep into:
* The danger of using work as a maladaptive coping mechanism
* Transforming life's disruptions into opportunities for growth
* Breaking free from the "if-then" mentality of achievement
* The power of authentic storytelling in building community
* Addressing compassion fatigue in leadership
* Creating space for real, unedited conversations
* The importance of leaving a meaningful legacy
* Daily self-reflection and personal accountability
🔑 Key takeaways:
1. External validation is a moving target that can never truly fulfill us
2. True resilience comes from transforming challenges into "positive disruptors"
3. Authentic vulnerability creates deeper connections than professional facades
4. Leadership development must address the human side of leading
5. We must create space for messy, real conversations in professional settings
đź’ˇ Quotes to remember:
"I don't want to be a diamond. I don't want this tough and jagged stuff." - Dr. Mandolen Mull
"We're only as good as the amount of good we give to other people." - Dr. Mandolen Mull
"My heart sits with yours. I'm here with you. You're not alone in this moment." - Dr. Mandolen Mull
đź“š Resources:
https://mullmentum.com/meet-us
https://www.instagram.com/mullivation/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mandolen/
Pick up a copy of “Grit for the Pearl”: https://www.amazon.com/Grit-Pearl-Mullings-Mullivation-MullMentum/dp/B0DCRVY8BH
* "My Heart Sits With Yours" - Coming soon
A rising tide raises all ships, and I invite you along on this journey to Evoke Greatness!
Check out my website: www.evokegreatness.com
Follow me on:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sonnie-linebarger-899b9a52/
https://www.instagram.com/evoke.greatness/
https://www.tiktok.com/@evoke.greatness
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Evoke Greatness.
We are officially entering yearthree of this podcast and I am
filled with so much gratitudefor each and every one of you
who've joined me on thisincredible journey of growth and
self-discovery.
I'm Sunny, your host and fellowtraveler on this path of
personal evolution.
This podcast is a sanctuary forthe curious, the ambitious and
(00:28):
the introspective.
It's for those of you who, likeme, are captivated by the
champion mindset and driven byan insatiable hunger for growth
and knowledge.
Whether you're just beginningyour journey or you're well
along your path, you're going tofind stories here that resonate
with your experiences andaspirations.
Over the last two years, we'veshared countless stories of
triumph and challenge, ofresilience and transformation.
(00:51):
We've laughed, we've reflectedand we've grown together.
And as we've evolved, so toohas this podcast.
Remember, no matter whatchapter you're on in your own
story, you belong here.
This community we've builttogether is a place of support,
inspiration and shared growth.
Where intention goes, energyflows, and the energy you bring
(01:13):
to this space elevates us all.
So, whether you're listeningwhile commuting, working out or
enjoying your morning coffee,perhaps from one of those
motivational mugs I'm so fond of, know that you're a part of
something special.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for your curiosity,your openness and your
commitment to personal growth.
As we embark on year three, Iinvite you to lean in, to listen
(01:36):
deeply and to let these storiesresonate with your soul.
I believe that a rising tideraises all ships and I invite
you along in this journey toevoke greatness.
(01:56):
Welcome back to part two of theHuman Side of Leadership with my
amazing guest, dr Mandel andMoll.
In this episode, we talk throughthe danger of using work as a
maladaptive coping mechanism,transforming life's disruptions
into opportunities for growth,breaking free from the if-then
mentality of achievement andcreating space for real,
(02:18):
unedited conversations.
And if you haven't had theopportunity, make sure to go
back to listen to part one fromlast week, where we talk about
the impact of generationalmentorship on leadership style,
breaking both chains and cyclesin professional development,
customizing leadershipdevelopment for authentic impact
and the importance ofexperimentation in
(02:40):
organizational growth.
You're not going to want tomiss either episode, so if you
haven't yet, go back to lastweek's, listen to it.
And then let's hop into parttwo.
As an advocate for recoveringformerly ambitious people, those
dealing with burnout, like wetalked about what do you believe
are the root causes of thattype of phenomenon in today's
(03:01):
workforce.
How can people really start toaddress it in an effective
manner so that they can actuallydeal with like again breaking
the cycle right, instead of justpicking that up and planting it
somewhere else?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
That's a wonderful question.
So the thing that I think andfor me was you know we are
taught in K through 12, if I dothis, then I get this and very
much an if then kind of linearapproach.
And when Crohn's came knockingon my door, you know I had not
planned to have Crohn's disease.
I didn't know anybody withCrohn's disease and that was so
(03:37):
just.
You know I call it a positivedisruptor now, but at the time
it was really disruptive for mebecause it wasn't part of my
plan.
I had an entire, you know,future planned out.
It did not include Crohn's.
Getting my PhD in change andfinding out that I had, you know
, brain damage and was going tohave to learn to walk and talk
again with acquired torsiondystonia Again not in my plans
(04:02):
and being told that I was goingto be severely disabled within
five years and unable to walk ortalk or feed myself not in my
plans and being told that I wasgoing to be severely disabled
within five years and unable towalk or talk or feed myself not
in my plans.
That was eight years ago thismonth and I beat the odds.
So how did I do that?
I think for me, sadly, work wasa maladaptive coping skill for
me.
While I said I went home andhad a glass or two of wine, that
(04:23):
coping skill for me While Isaid, you know, I went home and
had, you know, a glass or two ofwine, that coping skill
actually wasn't as maladaptiveas my work ethic was.
My work ethic allowed me tohave an avoidant behavior where
I leaned in and I became veryover-identified with my work.
And it wasn't in my face thatthis was a bad coping skill,
(04:47):
right, because I kept gettingrewarded for working late into
the night and you know all ofthe work that I was taking on.
I kept getting these awards andpeople kept championing me that
like, wow, we don't know howMadeline's doing it, she's got a
feeding tube in her arm andhere she is, you know, taking on
and tackling all this kind ofstuff.
(05:08):
So I was feeding off of thoseexternal accolades.
Not really take, you know,taking the measure of myself.
I was measuring myself againsteveryone else's expectations.
It was a dangerous, dangerousgame that I wasn't aware was
happening.
It was so insidious and then,you know, it started to kind of
(05:31):
crumble in a way.
Well, this is the only thingthat's holding me up.
I wasn't eating because I wasworking so hard.
I forgot to take care of myselfand soon I was severely
malnourished.
My health was very suffering.
Health was suffering very badlyand in terms of being able to
give people my best self, ofcourse I wasn't.
(05:52):
I wasn't able to show up thatway.
And then if somebody gave mefeedback, that felt like it was
judgmental, that I wasn't doingthe very best, I wasn't earning
my gold stars that I had alwaysloved.
I just couldn't handle that.
You know it felt like a moral.
(06:13):
You know assignation against me, like Mandolin is such a bad
person because, you know, herquality is just a little bit
less.
I didn't know how to handlethat.
Her quality is just a littlebit less.
I didn't know how to handlethat.
And so it really took a lot ofrealignment of me of saying
whose expectations am I chasingand is that healthy for me, and
(06:36):
whose expectations do I reallywant to meet?
And fundamentally it came downto wow, watching my father die
which was really painful over athree-year period with cancer,
and I remembered the whole weekthat he was dying.
It was a very elongated passingand I just kept asking.
(06:58):
I couldn't get it out of myhead.
I was asking for what?
For what he did all of this?
For what I'm, you know, themoney's going to be gone at some
point.
The the work that he did as asa master stone mason people
won't remember at some point,and he worked all the way up
(07:20):
until two weeks before he died.
He had cancer crawling all overhim for three years, you know.
And I just thought for what?
What is it that I want mylegacy to be?
And as I kept thinking about it, I thought to develop leaders
who go on to develop otherleaders, to pass on the
generational mentorship that hasbeen embedded in me from these
(07:44):
wonderful people, generationalmentorship that has been
embedded in me from thesewonderful people.
If I can continue passing thetorch that they passed on to me
when they gave me a chance, thenthat's the legacy I want.
That's the kind of ambition Iwant, not these external
accolades.
That was so empty.
It was such a moving target,right?
(08:05):
Nobody ever says, oh, you didsuch a great job and because you
did rest on your laurels, thegoalposts were always moving and
I felt like I was chasingghosts.
They were ghosts ofexpectations.
They weren't actually tangibleones, and so, yeah, I think it
was really about reassessing andthinking about what kind of
(08:26):
legacy I wanted to leave.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
In your book Grip for the Pearl.
First of all, you wrote and hadit ready to be published in one
week, which is like can we justhave like an audible gasp
across all listeners, becausethat in itself is phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
How has that experience with your invisible
illnesses?
You know air quotes that I'lltold?
No one needed or wanted to hearmy story.
That felt fundamentally wrong.
Right, it wasn't just Crohn's,it wasn't just just Donnie.
And, having to beat the odds,it was a late-term miscarriage.
It was these really traumaticsurgeries.
It was a car wreck that came outof the blue, like all of these
(09:30):
kinds of things that I had tonavigate through while still
highly achieving in my work, andI thought, gosh, I had that
grind mentality, sunny and likeI kept making the joke that grit
stood for a girl raised inTexas.
And you know I'm scrappy andI've got all this kind of stuff,
which is true, but I leaned toofar into it.
(09:52):
I went too far into it.
I went too heavy into it.
I might as well have been DavidGoggins or Jack Reacher or Jack
Wright.
You're like this tough and I'mnot that.
And I thought people keeptalking about pressure makes
diamonds and I thought I don'twant to be a diamond, I don't
want this tough and jagged stuff.
(10:13):
I want to have some agitationthat is introduced in my life.
Like I said, I call all ofthese challenges I had in life
positive disruptors.
I did not like them when theyfirst showed up on my doorstep,
but I learned how to take thosethings that agitated me, that
created a presence in my lifethat I couldn't get rid of, and
(10:35):
figured out how to transformthem into something that
self-illuminated, and I dobelieve that that's the
resiliency a lot of people seein me.
My story is not the story ofeveryone with Crohn's or
everyone with dystonia oreveryone who's had a miscarriage
you know all of these types ofthings or had PTSD from a
(10:58):
chiropractor, but my story is mystory, and so I started writing
about it on LinkedIn.
I would just sit down everymorning with a cup of coffee,
and then people started showingup and giving me like you know,
having conversations with me inthe comments, and I was like
this is so cool, I have friends,you know.
(11:20):
It was such a heartwarmingexperience for me.
And then people started to say,well, mandolin, why don't you
publish a book?
You know this would be great.
And our friend Mark Holden saidman, mandolin, you know, I
really think you should write abook.
And I had said I'd made a postabout Grip for the Pearl, and he
said that should be the name ofyour book.
(11:41):
And so it was, and I dedicatedthe book to his daughters and
you know, because I just I thinkagain it goes back to people
crave inspiration.
We like the underdog story andI have been an underdog and I've
been blessed.
I'm so grateful for the peoplewho have encouraged me.
(12:01):
And so we have a multi-seriesmemoir coming out now of these
LinkedIn posts that I wrote overthe course of a year, which
seemed to coalesce around fivethemes that I've just pulled out
unedited and just rocked withit and said, all right, we're
going to, we're going to let itbe what it is and if it
(12:22):
resonates with folks, theremight be.
You know, I didn't get todictate what's valuable to folks
, um, so all I can do is putmyself out there, hope that
something resonates and helpsomeone feel seen and supported
and inspired and realize that,yeah, we are up against some
gnarly things in this world, butthere's also everywhere around
(12:44):
us inspiration and opportunityto change course and break the
cycles and the chains right.
And so, yeah, that's my hope isthat the folks who read those
or read my posts on LinkedIn geta sense of who I show up in
those stories is exactly who Iam in real person in real life
(13:07):
and, yeah, my hope is that itjust gives someone a sense of
like, I'm not alone.
We have.
You know, the Surgeon General'scame out last year and gave a
Surgeon General warning of anepidemic of loneliness.
You know, globally We've beentalking about it for a number of
years, even before COVID.
Global studies have shown thatthis is a really big problem of
(13:31):
isolation and loneliness, andearlier today I saw the new
Harvard Business Review and it'son the cover about us being
lonely and for whatever reason,people kept showing up in my
comments and talking to me andit's just been one of the
greatest gifts of my life toform such a cool family on
LinkedIn.
You're a platform that wasmeant to be professional and you
(13:53):
know and and you know this likeit's social media is supposed
to be all fake, right, and likehere it is that I'm just out
there like writing down whateverrandom mulling I have that
morning.
You know, I had one about asquirrel with half a tail.
You know things and peoplesomehow have found something to
(14:18):
connect with.
And how cool is that that we'rein these little pockets and
nooks and crannies of theuniverse.
We're able to sit here and say,hey, I'm messy, you're messy.
Let's navigate this messtogether.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
You defy the odds of what one coins the algorithm
when it comes to LinkedIn.
I know we had a call about thisone time and it was like, okay,
in order for your post toperform on LinkedIn, you know it
has to be this and you have tohave this many spaces, and it
has to be short and concise.
And your posts are long and youhave an insane gift for
(14:50):
storytelling, I will tell you,and it draws people in, and so I
laugh every time I see yourposts because I'm like, haha,
linkedin, this meets none ofthose and outperforms everyone
else's.
But it's with true engagement,because you sparked something.
Somebody deeply resonated withsomething you wrote, and I love
(15:13):
when people write in the waythat you do, because I've always
, since I was little, I used tolove to read and I would get so
enthralled in something that itwould be as I was reading it.
I could visually see it playingout in my mind.
It was almost like I was in thestory with them, like as the
observer, and that's what I dowith yours.
I'm curious have you always hadthat gift of storytelling?
(15:37):
Is this something you've honedover time?
Speaker 2 (15:41):
So my family would say that I did that.
I always had a gift with words.
You know, I, quite frankly, amshocked by it.
You know, I really again didnot, I think in many ways.
When I started writing onLinkedIn, it was kind of
screaming into the abyss.
I just I was like I just knew.
(16:02):
You know, I had a farmerstudent get diagnosed with
dystonia and she told me, youknow, dr Moore, because I knew
your story, I wasn't afraid whenI got diagnosed and I thought,
if she was comforted in thatmoment of a scary diagnosis
because she knew that I hadlived with it, that's worth me
(16:24):
sharing and being vulnerable.
I have my foster daughter,however, in my life, because a
former student of mine knew ofmy story and thought that I
would make a good mother, andthis last year I've been a
mother, you know, and so youthink about the stakes being
like something like that.
(16:44):
It's like, oh my gosh, so I'mgoing to like not lean into that
.
I don't think so.
So it's awkward.
I'm rambling in my post like Iam here, it's again, it's who I
am, but I just kept thinking Idon't want people to have to
know me in person, to know me asa person and if I can show that
(17:04):
and try to show my heart andjust talk about things, you know
, maybe I'll make sense out ofit myself and in the process,
maybe, you know, somebody willgive me feedback on it and then
I can get additional insight.
That was really what I wastrying to do and it's just been
incredible that people have beenso kind to me as you are to
(17:27):
think that it's.
You know, somebody saidsomething about you're my
favorite storyteller on LinkedInand I went.
I didn't realize I was astoryteller.
You know, somebody saidsomething about you're my
favorite storyteller on LinkedInand I went.
I didn't realize I was astoryteller.
You know, I just thought, oh mygosh, I, you know, I just
genuinely didn't think that andstill don't.
But it's been like I Googled, IGoogled myself for something the
other day because, right, likethat's what we do, we have to
(17:49):
see what's out out there.
So I googled myself and itpopped up and it said author and
I went.
They think I'm an author and myfriends are all like Mandolin,
you are, and I'm like, oh, Iguess I am right.
I didn't.
You know, it's just.
I just, it's just things thatyou don't think about.
I don't mean that in a you know, flippant, a glib way.
(18:12):
It's such a gift that peoplehave resonated with anything
that I had to say, because,again, I think that all I'm
doing is honoring the people whohonored me and if somehow their
words come through me andresonate with someone else, how
cool is that me and resonatewith someone else Like how cool
(18:36):
is that?
Speaker 1 (18:36):
So, yeah, your upcoming book, my Heart Sits
With Yours suggests a deeplyempathetic approach to
leadership, and it was a deepwork of the heart for you.
How do you see that role ofempathy evolving in leadership,
especially this post-pandemicworld?
That seems almost like Ireferred to it with somebody for
like BC and AD, right, likeit's, like it's a different
(18:58):
world.
How do you think that empathycontinues to evolve in our
leadership, or how can weactively get it to continue to
evolve?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
You know we've talked about, we've heard this phrase
of like people having compassionfatigue right now, right, and
people even getting burned outon that right, like I don't have
the bandwidth to have any morecompassion for somebody's, you
know, like they kind of getjaded and cranky like their sob
story or something like that.
I think we are seeing like anempathy fatigue, because I do
(19:33):
see that people know life outthere is really hard right now,
more so than what we've seenhistorically, and people are
wanting to show up for otherpeople.
They genuinely do.
I think we are dealing withsuch good people all around us
all the time, but they're justin these, like crappy structures
(19:55):
, these, you know, one size fitsall things.
They don't feel like they'reseen, they don't feel like they
have agency and agility andautonomy in their lives, and so
then they want to bring all ofthat empathy forward and they
just feel depleted and they justfeel depleted.
And so I think, sadly, rightnow we are seeing we've heard
(20:24):
about empathetic leadership andI think, desperately, we see
great people wanting to show up.
That way.
Their well is dry, because whodevelops the leaders?
Who's investing in theseleaders?
Who's having theseconversations with leaders?
That talks about the messycrowd.
Right, you know that I work withunion iron workers, which is so
much fun for me, and I recentlygot told by a leadership team.
(20:48):
They said, you know, mandolin,we send our folks to like
Carnegie or Cornell or all ofthese types of programs.
We heard yours is the real deal.
We heard that you had ironworkers crying within the first
hour, these men who were allstrangers, with neck tattoos and
, you know, missing fingers fromthe hazards of their work, and
(21:10):
then, like you had them cryingand I said, well, we're talking
about the stuff that goes homewith them.
Sunny, I had individualstalking about.
You know, mandolin, we lost anemployee, you know one of our
members, and he, you know, in acar wreck and I had to go clean
out their locker and I had totake it to the family.
And this man looks at me andhe's crying and he goes.
(21:32):
They don't train us for that.
And so these are theconversations, right?
Is who leads the leaders?
Not this, like.
Here's your five-step plan withthe fancy acronym on how to be
a great leader, because thereality is nobody says I want to
be a crappy one, but we arecrappy because we're human and
we're messy and we get in ourown ways and we want to be
(21:53):
empathetic.
But it feels so disconnectedwhen we're in these kinds of
structures.
So it's leaning in and sayingwhat is that real stuff and
where do you have an outlet?
And one of my guys said well,you know, mandolin, are you
talking about kind of a kumbaya?
And we're going to have like acry closet, right, and I love.
This is why I love working withiron workers, because they'll
(22:15):
push back on me every which wayto Sunday, which is great.
And before I could even say itand I'm going to be, I'm going
to apologize head here because Iam going to curse in just a
moment.
But my, my one of the otheriron workers said dude, we do
have a cry closet, it's calledthe shitter.
And you know, I thought Ithought you know these guys know
(22:43):
that they need the support,they know that they're trying to
get empathy, they know thatthey are wanting this training
and development and they don'tknow where to get it from.
And we're not having theseconversations.
And it takes a lot of courage,when you're in manufacturing or
a high-level exec, to go and sayI keep stepping all over myself
(23:04):
because my ego is getting inthe way.
I feel really insecure.
I have a massive case ofimposter syndrome and I need
help with this, or I don't knowhow to shake that.
People at work are sufferingfrom.
This person just lost theirspouse and they're coming to
(23:26):
work.
We only give them three daysfor bereavement or something
like that and they come back towork and the rest of my team
doesn't know how to talk to thisperson.
They're not calling the EAPbecause that doesn't feel
connected.
So what do I as a leader do?
How do I show up for my team?
I want to be empathetic, but Idon't have the tools.
(23:47):
And so that's the conversations.
I think we have to lean in, andI think for a very long time
people have been wanting to belike PC.
Yeah well, we can't say toomuch because you know legal is
going to come after us orsomething.
And I think we've got to get toa stage where we just say can
we have real conversations withreal people?
Can we just allow each other tolive an unedited life in real
(24:12):
time, give each other that spacefor grace and try to figure out
how we can genuinely beempathetic.
I do think the empathy is there,although I said the well was
dry earlier.
I think it's dry because peoplefeel like they're being jammed
up of being able to give itforward.
Right, they want to do it, butthey're fatigued by the
(24:35):
structure and the system they'rein far more than the fatigue of
their heart and what they'rewanting to show up as.
So I think we've got to getthose structures out of their
way, the facades out of theirway, and just allow them to be a
little bit messy and understandthat that's okay.
(24:56):
I think we are making headwaythere and I think empathy pours
forth from that.
But yeah, people are kind ofconfined right now, I think, in
that kind of totality of thatstructure and it's something
we've got to dismantle.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yeah, and as we're wrapping up, there's a question
that I always love to ask people.
But I'm dying to ask you justbecause I just think your
insight and your wisdom is soheartfelt.
I mean, it's so real and it'sso humane and raw, and I love
that.
I appreciate that you show upthat way.
But I'm that I appreciate thatyou show up that way, but I'm
(25:35):
curious.
I love to ask people at the endif you, if it were your last
day on earth and you had onepiece of advice that you got to
share with your daughter or withyour family or with all the
people you've mentored over yourcareer, what is that one piece
of advice that you would imparton the world?
Speaker 2 (25:53):
You know that's tough , right, I would.
I think it's.
We're only as good as theamount of good we give to other
people.
You know, I really think that'strue right.
So, like for so long as I wassaying, you know that,
recovering a formerly ambitiousperson, I thought I was good
(26:15):
because, you know, I earned goodgrades that offset my father's
jail log in the newspaper.
You know, I thought thoseaccolades were how I was good,
the awards were how I was good.
Now, I fundamentally believe weare only as good as the good we
give out to other people,believe we are only as good as
(26:36):
the good we give out to otherpeople.
And in the ways in which I canstand there in that room with
ironworkers that are crying,being very raw, being
authentically themselves, andyou know us sitting here saying
we might not know all theanswers and me not trying to
jump to a solution to fix iteither, right, Like sitting
there with them.
And that's why the book iscalled my Heart Sits With Yours,
because there's times we don'thave the words, we can't offer
(27:00):
comfort in the way that ourheart, that empathetic nature,
wants to give it out, so we getjumped and so we just say my
heart sits with yours.
I'm here with you.
You're not alone in this moment.
So to me, that's the best pieceof advice that I can give is
we're only as good as the goodwe give to others.
Because if I can give that goodto other people, goodness
(27:24):
gracious.
I ask myself every night am Iproud of the woman I presented
myself to be today, and I don'tmean presented like in a facade,
but just how I carried myself,what I put out into the world,
what good did I show up for mybest self today?
And sometimes that answer is no, and I've got to do damage
control.
The next day, I got to go anddo some mea corpus.
(27:47):
But yeah, I think many peoplearen't doing that very easy
self-check at night.
And it's so easy.
Not that we intend to do bad orharm people, but ego is a real
thing, insecurity is a realthing and it chatters away at us
and biology gets away with uswith our amygdala telling us you
(28:10):
know threat responses and allthis stuff, and we don't act as
our best selves.
We don't.
You know threat responses andall this stuff, and we don't act
as our best selves.
We don't act in the way that wecan be most proud and in the
good that we can give.
So I think if we ask ourselvesthat, barometer, how am I
showing up and showing good forother people?
Can I feel proud of you?
I love when people tell youthey're proud of you, but the
(28:32):
reality of it is, you know, I'vestarted telling people like I'm
really proud of you.
Know, I love when people tellyou they're proud of you, but
the reality of it is, you know,I've started telling people like
I'm really proud of you, but Ishouldn't be more proud of you
than you are of yourself,because I don't think people
take their that right.
They don't take their flowers,of that, of saying I am proud of
how I showed up in thatsituation or how I presented
myself to be, and I think we'vegot to get better champions at
(28:53):
that, and so, yeah, I think Ilove that question, but I really
do think that's what I hopepeople could keep showing up for
doing good for others.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Well, I would love to have you share.
Where can people find you?
Obviously, I mean, you would doyourself a disservice to all of
my listeners if you do not gofollow Mandolin on LinkedIn and
enthrall yourself in her storieslike I do.
But where can everybody findyou and follow you?
And my Heart Sits With Yours isgoing to be out in about three
(29:25):
weeks.
Where can people get your books?
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Yeah, so I'm Grit for the Pearl and my Heart Sits
with Yours.
And then the other in theseries are all on Amazon.
They're on Barnes Noble, so,yeah, they can find them pretty
easily.
We've got them in e-book,paperback and hardcover.
It's surreal to me, again, thatpeople are reading it.
That's incredible.
Yes, I'm on LinkedIn.
(29:50):
I still keep writing every day,although the multi-series
memoir is just taking place overthe fall of 2023 into the
summer of 2024.
So I keep writing.
So I'm guessing maybe theremight be some more additions to
the multi-series memoir.
I am also on Instagram underMullivation.
(30:11):
I did not come up with that,that is what one of my iron
workers came up with.
And then I have a company, aconsulting company, where I do
leader development, which isMullmentumcom.
Again, I did not come up withthat, one of my former students
came up with Mullmentum.
So the series of themulti-series memoir is Mullings,
(30:32):
mull-ovation and Momentum.
So yeah, so if I could make funof my name, we're going to go
into it, you know, hey, it'slow-hanging fruit.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Well, I will put all of those links in the show notes
as well.
But, mandolin, thank you, thankyou for what you're doing in
the world, thank you for showingup so full in such a human way.
You are a dynamic woman, youare a dynamic human, and you are
creating more positive ripplesin this world than I think you
(31:01):
may ever actually know about,and so I appreciate you and I'm
so grateful to have you on.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Thank you so much.
It's been a pleasure talkingwith you and I'm really just
thrilled.
Thank you very much and I hopethat something I said would be
of value to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Thank you so much for listening and for being here on
this journey with me.
I hope you'll stick around Ifyou liked this episode.
It would mean the world for meif you would rate and review the
podcast or share it withsomeone you know may need to
hear this message.
I love to hear from you all andwant you to know that you can
leave me a voicemail directly.
If you go to my website,evokegreatnesscom, and go to the
contact me tab, you'll just hitthe big old orange button and
(31:44):
record your message.
I love the feedback andcomments that I've been getting,
so please keep them coming.
I'll leave you with the wisewords of author Robin Sharma
Greatness comes by doing a fewsmall and smart things each and
every day.
It comes from taking littlesteps consistently.
It comes from making a fewsmall chips against everything
(32:06):
in your professional andpersonal life that is ordinary,
so that a day eventually arriveswhen all that's left is the
extraordinary.
Welcome to Evoke Greatness.
We are officially entering yearthree of this podcast and I am
filled with so much gratitudefor each and every one of you
who've joined me on thisincredible journey of growth and
self-discovery.
I'm Sunny, your host and fellowtraveler on this path of
personal evolution.
This podcast is a sanctuary forthe curious, the ambitious and
(00:28):
the introspective.
It's for those of you who, likeme, are captivated by the
champion mindset and driven byan insatiable hunger for growth
and knowledge.
Whether you're just beginningyour journey or you're well
along your path, you're going tofind stories here that resonate
with your experiences andaspirations.
Over the last two years, we'veshared countless stories of
triumph and challenge, ofresilience and transformation.
(00:51):
We've laughed, we've reflectedand we've grown together.
And as we've evolved, so toohas this podcast.
Remember, no matter whatchapter you're on in your own
story, you belong here.
This community we've builttogether is a place of support,
inspiration and shared growth.
Where intention goes, energyflows, and the energy you bring
(01:13):
to this space elevates us all.
So, whether you're listeningwhile commuting, working out or
enjoying your morning coffee,perhaps from one of those
motivational mugs I'm so fond of, know that you're a part of
something special.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for your curiosity,your openness and your
commitment to personal growth.
As we embark on year three, Iinvite you to lean in, to listen
(01:36):
deeply and to let these storiesresonate with your soul.
I believe that a rising tideraises all ships and I invite
you along in this journey toevoke greatness.
(01:56):
Welcome back to part two of theHuman Side of Leadership with my
amazing guest, dr Mandel andMoll.
In this episode, we talk throughthe danger of using work as a
maladaptive coping mechanism,transforming life's disruptions
into opportunities for growth,breaking free from the if-then
mentality of achievement andcreating space for real,
(02:18):
unedited conversations.
And if you haven't had theopportunity, make sure to go
back to listen to part one fromlast week, where we talk about
the impact of generationalmentorship on leadership style,
breaking both chains and cyclesin professional development,
customizing leadershipdevelopment for authentic impact
and the importance ofexperimentation in
(02:40):
organizational growth.
You're not going to want tomiss either episode, so if you
haven't yet, go back to lastweek's, listen to it.
And then let's hop into parttwo.
As an advocate for recoveringformerly ambitious people, those
dealing with burnout, like wetalked about what do you believe
are the root causes of thattype of phenomenon in today's
(03:01):
workforce.
How can people really start toaddress it in an effective
manner so that they can actuallydeal with like again breaking
the cycle right, instead of justpicking that up and planting it
somewhere else?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
That's a wonderful question.
So the thing that I think andfor me was you know we are
taught in K through 12, if I dothis, then I get this and very
much an if then kind of linearapproach.
And when Crohn's came knockingon my door, you know I had not
planned to have Crohn's disease.
I didn't know anybody withCrohn's disease and that was so
(03:37):
just.
You know I call it a positivedisruptor now, but at the time
it was really disruptive for mebecause it wasn't part of my
plan.
I had an entire, you know,future planned out.
It did not include Crohn's.
Getting my PhD in change andfinding out that I had, you know
, brain damage and was going tohave to learn to walk and talk
again with acquired torsiondystonia Again not in my plans
(04:02):
and being told that I was goingto be severely disabled within
five years and unable to walk ortalk or feed myself not in my
plans and being told that I wasgoing to be severely disabled
within five years and unable towalk or talk or feed myself not
in my plans.
That was eight years ago thismonth and I beat the odds.
So how did I do that?
I think for me, sadly, work wasa maladaptive coping skill for
me.
While I said I went home andhad a glass or two of wine, that
(04:23):
coping skill for me While Isaid, you know, I went home and
had, you know, a glass or two ofwine, that coping skill
actually wasn't as maladaptiveas my work ethic was.
My work ethic allowed me tohave an avoidant behavior where
I leaned in and I became veryover-identified with my work.
And it wasn't in my face thatthis was a bad coping skill,
(04:47):
right, because I kept gettingrewarded for working late into
the night and you know all ofthe work that I was taking on.
I kept getting these awards andpeople kept championing me that
like, wow, we don't know howMadeline's doing it, she's got a
feeding tube in her arm andhere she is, you know, taking on
and tackling all this kind ofstuff.
(05:08):
So I was feeding off of thoseexternal accolades.
Not really take, you know,taking the measure of myself.
I was measuring myself againsteveryone else's expectations.
It was a dangerous, dangerousgame that I wasn't aware was
happening.
It was so insidious and then,you know, it started to kind of
(05:31):
crumble in a way.
Well, this is the only thingthat's holding me up.
I wasn't eating because I wasworking so hard.
I forgot to take care of myselfand soon I was severely
malnourished.
My health was very suffering.
Health was suffering very badlyand in terms of being able to
give people my best self, ofcourse I wasn't.
(05:52):
I wasn't able to show up thatway.
And then if somebody gave mefeedback, that felt like it was
judgmental, that I wasn't doingthe very best, I wasn't earning
my gold stars that I had alwaysloved.
I just couldn't handle that.
You know it felt like a moral.
(06:13):
You know assignation against me, like Mandolin is such a bad
person because, you know, herquality is just a little bit
less.
I didn't know how to handlethat.
Her quality is just a littlebit less.
I didn't know how to handlethat.
And so it really took a lot ofrealignment of me of saying
whose expectations am I chasingand is that healthy for me, and
(06:36):
whose expectations do I reallywant to meet?
And fundamentally it came downto wow, watching my father die
which was really painful over athree-year period with cancer,
and I remembered the whole weekthat he was dying.
It was a very elongated passingand I just kept asking.
(06:58):
I couldn't get it out of myhead.
I was asking for what?
For what he did all of this?
For what I'm, you know, themoney's going to be gone at some
point.
The the work that he did as asa master stone mason people
won't remember at some point,and he worked all the way up
(07:20):
until two weeks before he died.
He had cancer crawling all overhim for three years, you know.
And I just thought for what?
What is it that I want mylegacy to be?
And as I kept thinking about it, I thought to develop leaders
who go on to develop otherleaders, to pass on the
generational mentorship that hasbeen embedded in me from these
(07:44):
wonderful people, generationalmentorship that has been
embedded in me from thesewonderful people.
If I can continue passing thetorch that they passed on to me
when they gave me a chance, thenthat's the legacy I want.
That's the kind of ambition Iwant, not these external
accolades.
That was so empty.
It was such a moving target,right?
(08:05):
Nobody ever says, oh, you didsuch a great job and because you
did rest on your laurels, thegoalposts were always moving and
I felt like I was chasingghosts.
They were ghosts ofexpectations.
They weren't actually tangibleones, and so, yeah, I think it
was really about reassessing andthinking about what kind of
(08:26):
legacy I wanted to leave.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
In your book Grip for the Pearl.
First of all, you wrote and hadit ready to be published in one
week, which is like can we justhave like an audible gasp
across all listeners, becausethat in itself is phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
How has that experience with your invisible
illnesses?
You know air quotes that I'lltold?
No one needed or wanted to hearmy story.
That felt fundamentally wrong.
Right, it wasn't just Crohn's,it wasn't just just Donnie.
And, having to beat the odds,it was a late-term miscarriage.
It was these really traumaticsurgeries.
It was a car wreck that came outof the blue, like all of these
(09:30):
kinds of things that I had tonavigate through while still
highly achieving in my work, andI thought, gosh, I had that
grind mentality, sunny and likeI kept making the joke that grit
stood for a girl raised inTexas.
And you know I'm scrappy andI've got all this kind of stuff,
which is true, but I leaned toofar into it.
(09:52):
I went too far into it.
I went too heavy into it.
I might as well have been DavidGoggins or Jack Reacher or Jack
Wright.
You're like this tough and I'mnot that.
And I thought people keeptalking about pressure makes
diamonds and I thought I don'twant to be a diamond, I don't
want this tough and jagged stuff.
(10:13):
I want to have some agitationthat is introduced in my life.
Like I said, I call all ofthese challenges I had in life
positive disruptors.
I did not like them when theyfirst showed up on my doorstep,
but I learned how to take thosethings that agitated me, that
created a presence in my lifethat I couldn't get rid of, and
(10:35):
figured out how to transformthem into something that
self-illuminated, and I dobelieve that that's the
resiliency a lot of people seein me.
My story is not the story ofeveryone with Crohn's or
everyone with dystonia oreveryone who's had a miscarriage
you know all of these types ofthings or had PTSD from a
(10:58):
chiropractor, but my story is mystory, and so I started writing
about it on LinkedIn.
I would just sit down everymorning with a cup of coffee,
and then people started showingup and giving me like you know,
having conversations with me inthe comments, and I was like
this is so cool, I have friends,you know.
(11:20):
It was such a heartwarmingexperience for me.
And then people started to say,well, mandolin, why don't you
publish a book?
You know this would be great.
And our friend Mark Holden saidman, mandolin, you know, I
really think you should write abook.
And I had said I'd made a postabout Grip for the Pearl, and he
said that should be the name ofyour book.
(11:41):
And so it was, and I dedicatedthe book to his daughters and
you know, because I just I thinkagain it goes back to people
crave inspiration.
We like the underdog story andI have been an underdog and I've
been blessed.
I'm so grateful for the peoplewho have encouraged me.
(12:01):
And so we have a multi-seriesmemoir coming out now of these
LinkedIn posts that I wrote overthe course of a year, which
seemed to coalesce around fivethemes that I've just pulled out
unedited and just rocked withit and said, all right, we're
going to, we're going to let itbe what it is and if it
(12:22):
resonates with folks, theremight be.
You know, I didn't get todictate what's valuable to folks
, um, so all I can do is putmyself out there, hope that
something resonates and helpsomeone feel seen and supported
and inspired and realize that,yeah, we are up against some
gnarly things in this world, butthere's also everywhere around
(12:44):
us inspiration and opportunityto change course and break the
cycles and the chains right.
And so, yeah, that's my hope isthat the folks who read those
or read my posts on LinkedIn geta sense of who I show up in
those stories is exactly who Iam in real person in real life
(13:07):
and, yeah, my hope is that itjust gives someone a sense of
like, I'm not alone.
We have.
You know, the Surgeon General'scame out last year and gave a
Surgeon General warning of anepidemic of loneliness.
You know, globally We've beentalking about it for a number of
years, even before COVID.
Global studies have shown thatthis is a really big problem of
(13:31):
isolation and loneliness, andearlier today I saw the new
Harvard Business Review and it'son the cover about us being
lonely and for whatever reason,people kept showing up in my
comments and talking to me andit's just been one of the
greatest gifts of my life toform such a cool family on
LinkedIn.
You're a platform that wasmeant to be professional and you
(13:53):
know and and you know this likeit's social media is supposed
to be all fake, right, and likehere it is that I'm just out
there like writing down whateverrandom mulling I have that
morning.
You know, I had one about asquirrel with half a tail.
You know things and peoplesomehow have found something to
(14:18):
connect with.
And how cool is that that we'rein these little pockets and
nooks and crannies of theuniverse.
We're able to sit here and say,hey, I'm messy, you're messy.
Let's navigate this messtogether.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
You defy the odds of what one coins the algorithm
when it comes to LinkedIn.
I know we had a call about thisone time and it was like, okay,
in order for your post toperform on LinkedIn, you know it
has to be this and you have tohave this many spaces, and it
has to be short and concise.
And your posts are long and youhave an insane gift for
(14:50):
storytelling, I will tell you,and it draws people in, and so I
laugh every time I see yourposts because I'm like, haha,
linkedin, this meets none ofthose and outperforms everyone
else's.
But it's with true engagement,because you sparked something.
Somebody deeply resonated withsomething you wrote, and I love
(15:13):
when people write in the waythat you do, because I've always
, since I was little, I used tolove to read and I would get so
enthralled in something that itwould be as I was reading it.
I could visually see it playingout in my mind.
It was almost like I was in thestory with them, like as the
observer, and that's what I dowith yours.
I'm curious have you always hadthat gift of storytelling?
(15:37):
Is this something you've honedover time?
Speaker 2 (15:41):
So my family would say that I did that.
I always had a gift with words.
You know, I, quite frankly, amshocked by it.
You know, I really again didnot, I think in many ways.
When I started writing onLinkedIn, it was kind of
screaming into the abyss.
I just I was like I just knew.
(16:02):
You know, I had a farmerstudent get diagnosed with
dystonia and she told me, youknow, dr Moore, because I knew
your story, I wasn't afraid whenI got diagnosed and I thought,
if she was comforted in thatmoment of a scary diagnosis
because she knew that I hadlived with it, that's worth me
(16:24):
sharing and being vulnerable.
I have my foster daughter,however, in my life, because a
former student of mine knew ofmy story and thought that I
would make a good mother, andthis last year I've been a
mother, you know, and so youthink about the stakes being
like something like that.
(16:44):
It's like, oh my gosh, so I'mgoing to like not lean into that
.
I don't think so.
So it's awkward.
I'm rambling in my post like Iam here, it's again, it's who I
am, but I just kept thinking Idon't want people to have to
know me in person, to know me asa person and if I can show that
(17:04):
and try to show my heart andjust talk about things, you know
, maybe I'll make sense out ofit myself and in the process,
maybe, you know, somebody willgive me feedback on it and then
I can get additional insight.
That was really what I wastrying to do and it's just been
incredible that people have beenso kind to me as you are to
(17:27):
think that it's.
You know, somebody saidsomething about you're my
favorite storyteller on LinkedInand I went.
I didn't realize I was astoryteller.
You know, somebody saidsomething about you're my
favorite storyteller on LinkedInand I went.
I didn't realize I was astoryteller.
You know, I just thought, oh mygosh, I, you know, I just
genuinely didn't think that andstill don't.
But it's been like I Googled, IGoogled myself for something the
other day because, right, likethat's what we do, we have to
(17:49):
see what's out out there.
So I googled myself and itpopped up and it said author and
I went.
They think I'm an author and myfriends are all like Mandolin,
you are, and I'm like, oh, Iguess I am right.
I didn't.
You know, it's just.
I just, it's just things thatyou don't think about.
I don't mean that in a you know, flippant, a glib way.
(18:12):
It's such a gift that peoplehave resonated with anything
that I had to say, because,again, I think that all I'm
doing is honoring the people whohonored me and if somehow their
words come through me andresonate with someone else, how
cool is that me and resonatewith someone else Like how cool
(18:36):
is that?
Speaker 1 (18:36):
So, yeah, your upcoming book, my Heart Sits
With Yours suggests a deeplyempathetic approach to
leadership, and it was a deepwork of the heart for you.
How do you see that role ofempathy evolving in leadership,
especially this post-pandemicworld?
That seems almost like Ireferred to it with somebody for
like BC and AD, right, likeit's, like it's a different
(18:58):
world.
How do you think that empathycontinues to evolve in our
leadership, or how can weactively get it to continue to
evolve?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
You know we've talked about, we've heard this phrase
of like people having compassionfatigue right now, right, and
people even getting burned outon that right, like I don't have
the bandwidth to have any morecompassion for somebody's, you
know, like they kind of getjaded and cranky like their sob
story or something like that.
I think we are seeing like anempathy fatigue, because I do
(19:33):
see that people know life outthere is really hard right now,
more so than what we've seenhistorically, and people are
wanting to show up for otherpeople.
They genuinely do.
I think we are dealing withsuch good people all around us
all the time, but they're justin these, like crappy structures
(19:55):
, these, you know, one size fitsall things.
They don't feel like they'reseen, they don't feel like they
have agency and agility andautonomy in their lives, and so
then they want to bring all ofthat empathy forward and they
just feel depleted and they justfeel depleted.
And so I think, sadly, rightnow we are seeing we've heard
(20:24):
about empathetic leadership andI think, desperately, we see
great people wanting to show up.
That way.
Their well is dry, because whodevelops the leaders?
Who's investing in theseleaders?
Who's having theseconversations with leaders?
That talks about the messycrowd.
Right, you know that I work withunion iron workers, which is so
much fun for me, and I recentlygot told by a leadership team.
(20:48):
They said, you know, mandolin,we send our folks to like
Carnegie or Cornell or all ofthese types of programs.
We heard yours is the real deal.
We heard that you had ironworkers crying within the first
hour, these men who were allstrangers, with neck tattoos and
, you know, missing fingers fromthe hazards of their work, and
(21:10):
then, like you had them cryingand I said, well, we're talking
about the stuff that goes homewith them.
Sunny, I had individualstalking about.
You know, mandolin, we lost anemployee, you know one of our
members, and he, you know, in acar wreck and I had to go clean
out their locker and I had totake it to the family.
And this man looks at me andhe's crying and he goes.
(21:32):
They don't train us for that.
And so these are theconversations, right?
Is who leads the leaders?
Not this, like.
Here's your five-step plan withthe fancy acronym on how to be
a great leader, because thereality is nobody says I want to
be a crappy one, but we arecrappy because we're human and
we're messy and we get in ourown ways and we want to be
(21:53):
empathetic.
But it feels so disconnectedwhen we're in these kinds of
structures.
So it's leaning in and sayingwhat is that real stuff and
where do you have an outlet?
And one of my guys said well,you know, mandolin, are you
talking about kind of a kumbaya?
And we're going to have like acry closet, right, and I love.
This is why I love working withiron workers, because they'll
(22:15):
push back on me every which wayto Sunday, which is great.
And before I could even say itand I'm going to be, I'm going
to apologize head here because Iam going to curse in just a
moment.
But my, my one of the otheriron workers said dude, we do
have a cry closet, it's calledthe shitter.
And you know, I thought Ithought you know these guys know
(22:43):
that they need the support,they know that they're trying to
get empathy, they know thatthey are wanting this training
and development and they don'tknow where to get it from.
And we're not having theseconversations.
And it takes a lot of courage,when you're in manufacturing or
a high-level exec, to go and sayI keep stepping all over myself
(23:04):
because my ego is getting inthe way.
I feel really insecure.
I have a massive case ofimposter syndrome and I need
help with this, or I don't knowhow to shake that.
People at work are sufferingfrom.
This person just lost theirspouse and they're coming to
(23:26):
work.
We only give them three daysfor bereavement or something
like that and they come back towork and the rest of my team
doesn't know how to talk to thisperson.
They're not calling the EAPbecause that doesn't feel
connected.
So what do I as a leader do?
How do I show up for my team?
I want to be empathetic, but Idon't have the tools.
(23:47):
And so that's the conversations.
I think we have to lean in, andI think for a very long time
people have been wanting to belike PC.
Yeah well, we can't say toomuch because you know legal is
going to come after us orsomething.
And I think we've got to get toa stage where we just say can
we have real conversations withreal people?
Can we just allow each other tolive an unedited life in real
(24:12):
time, give each other that spacefor grace and try to figure out
how we can genuinely beempathetic.
I do think the empathy is there,although I said the well was
dry earlier.
I think it's dry because peoplefeel like they're being jammed
up of being able to give itforward.
Right, they want to do it, butthey're fatigued by the
(24:35):
structure and the system they'rein far more than the fatigue of
their heart and what they'rewanting to show up as.
So I think we've got to getthose structures out of their
way, the facades out of theirway, and just allow them to be a
little bit messy and understandthat that's okay.
(24:56):
I think we are making headwaythere and I think empathy pours
forth from that.
But yeah, people are kind ofconfined right now, I think, in
that kind of totality of thatstructure and it's something
we've got to dismantle.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yeah, and as we're wrapping up, there's a question
that I always love to ask people.
But I'm dying to ask you justbecause I just think your
insight and your wisdom is soheartfelt.
I mean, it's so real and it'sso humane and raw, and I love
that.
I appreciate that you show upthat way.
But I'm that I appreciate thatyou show up that way, but I'm
(25:35):
curious.
I love to ask people at the endif you, if it were your last
day on earth and you had onepiece of advice that you got to
share with your daughter or withyour family or with all the
people you've mentored over yourcareer, what is that one piece
of advice that you would imparton the world?
Speaker 2 (25:53):
You know that's tough , right, I would.
I think it's.
We're only as good as theamount of good we give to other
people.
You know, I really think that'strue right.
So, like for so long as I wassaying, you know that,
recovering a formerly ambitiousperson, I thought I was good
(26:15):
because, you know, I earned goodgrades that offset my father's
jail log in the newspaper.
You know, I thought thoseaccolades were how I was good,
the awards were how I was good.
Now, I fundamentally believe weare only as good as the good we
give out to other people,believe we are only as good as
(26:36):
the good we give out to otherpeople.
And in the ways in which I canstand there in that room with
ironworkers that are crying,being very raw, being
authentically themselves, andyou know us sitting here saying
we might not know all theanswers and me not trying to
jump to a solution to fix iteither, right, Like sitting
there with them.
And that's why the book iscalled my Heart Sits With Yours,
because there's times we don'thave the words, we can't offer
(27:00):
comfort in the way that ourheart, that empathetic nature,
wants to give it out, so we getjumped and so we just say my
heart sits with yours.
I'm here with you.
You're not alone in this moment.
So to me, that's the best pieceof advice that I can give is
we're only as good as the goodwe give to others.
Because if I can give that goodto other people, goodness
(27:24):
gracious.
I ask myself every night am Iproud of the woman I presented
myself to be today, and I don'tmean presented like in a facade,
but just how I carried myself,what I put out into the world,
what good did I show up for mybest self today?
And sometimes that answer is no, and I've got to do damage
control.
The next day, I got to go anddo some mea corpus.
(27:47):
But yeah, I think many peoplearen't doing that very easy
self-check at night.
And it's so easy.
Not that we intend to do bad orharm people, but ego is a real
thing, insecurity is a realthing and it chatters away at us
and biology gets away with uswith our amygdala telling us you
(28:10):
know threat responses and allthis stuff, and we don't act as
our best selves.
We don't.
You know threat responses andall this stuff, and we don't act
as our best selves.
We don't act in the way that wecan be most proud and in the
good that we can give.
So I think if we ask ourselvesthat, barometer, how am I
showing up and showing good forother people?
Can I feel proud of you?
I love when people tell youthey're proud of you, but the
(28:32):
reality of it is, you know, I'vestarted telling people like I'm
really proud of you.
Know, I love when people tellyou they're proud of you, but
the reality of it is, you know,I've started telling people like
I'm really proud of you, but Ishouldn't be more proud of you
than you are of yourself,because I don't think people
take their that right.
They don't take their flowers,of that, of saying I am proud of
how I showed up in thatsituation or how I presented
myself to be, and I think we'vegot to get better champions at
(28:53):
that, and so, yeah, I think Ilove that question, but I really
do think that's what I hopepeople could keep showing up for
doing good for others.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Well, I would love to have you share.
Where can people find you?
Obviously, I mean, you would doyourself a disservice to all of
my listeners if you do not gofollow Mandolin on LinkedIn and
enthrall yourself in her storieslike I do.
But where can everybody findyou and follow you?
And my Heart Sits With Yours isgoing to be out in about three
(29:25):
weeks.
Where can people get your books?
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Yeah, so I'm Grit for the Pearl and my Heart Sits
with Yours.
And then the other in theseries are all on Amazon.
They're on Barnes Noble, so,yeah, they can find them pretty
easily.
We've got them in e-book,paperback and hardcover.
It's surreal to me, again, thatpeople are reading it.
That's incredible.
Yes, I'm on LinkedIn.
(29:50):
I still keep writing every day,although the multi-series
memoir is just taking place overthe fall of 2023 into the
summer of 2024.
So I keep writing.
So I'm guessing maybe theremight be some more additions to
the multi-series memoir.
I am also on Instagram underMullivation.
(30:11):
I did not come up with that,that is what one of my iron
workers came up with.
And then I have a company, aconsulting company, where I do
leader development, which isMullmentumcom.
Again, I did not come up withthat, one of my former students
came up with Mullmentum.
So the series of themulti-series memoir is Mullings,
(30:32):
mull-ovation and Momentum.
So yeah, so if I could make funof my name, we're going to go
into it, you know, hey, it'slow-hanging fruit.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Well, I will put all of those links in the show notes
as well.
But, mandolin, thank you, thankyou for what you're doing in
the world, thank you for showingup so full in such a human way.
You are a dynamic woman, youare a dynamic human, and you are
creating more positive ripplesin this world than I think you
(31:01):
may ever actually know about,and so I appreciate you and I'm
so grateful to have you on.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Thank you so much.
It's been a pleasure talkingwith you and I'm really just
thrilled.
Thank you very much and I hopethat something I said would be
of value to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Thank you so much for listening and for being here on
this journey with me.
I hope you'll stick around Ifyou liked this episode.
It would mean the world for meif you would rate and review the
podcast or share it withsomeone you know may need to
hear this message.
I love to hear from you all andwant you to know that you can
leave me a voicemail directly.
If you go to my website,evokegreatnesscom, and go to the
contact me tab, you'll just hitthe big old orange button and
(31:44):
record your message.
I love the feedback andcomments that I've been getting,
so please keep them coming.
I'll leave you with the wisewords of author Robin Sharma
Greatness comes by doing a fewsmall and smart things each and
every day.
It comes from taking littlesteps consistently.
It comes from making a fewsmall chips against everything
(32:06):
in your professional andpersonal life that is ordinary,
so that a day eventually arriveswhen all that's left is the
extraordinary.
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