ETI’s Eddington Review feat. Filmmaker Kalee Quiñones

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Sheriff Joe Cross patrols a small New Mexico town where tension simmers beneath the surface. It's May 2020, and the pandemic has unleashed a torrent of fear, conspiracy, and mistrust that threatens to tear Eddington apart.

When we meet Joaquin Phoenix's Sheriff Cross, he's a man grasping for control – of his town, his marriage to Emma Stone's increasingly distant wife, and the looming threat of COVID-19. His power struggle with Pedro Pascal's Mayor Ted Garcia initially plays as absurdist comedy, filled with mask debates and protocol disputes that feel simultaneously ridiculous and unnervingly familiar. But Aster isn't interested in simple pandemic nostalgia or pointed finger-wagging.

As protests ignite following George Floyd's murder, the film transforms into something far more dangerous. Phoenix's fragile authority figure, obsessed with maintaining power he never truly possessed, descends into paranoia and violence. What follows is a white-knuckle thriller that examines how quickly social order can collapse when trust erodes and technology weaponizes our worst impulses.

Aster's genius lies in refusing to choose sides. His unflinching camera examines everyone – from performative activists to conspiracy theorists, from power-hungry officials to corporate puppeteers. The result feels like a definitive artistic statement about America's fractured landscape, where phones replace six-shooters and the true villains might not be who we expect.

Darius Khondji's breathtaking cinematography captures both the vast emptiness of the New Mexico desert and the claustrophobic tension of a community at war with itself. The performances, particularly Phoenix's slow-burning descent into madness, elevate this beyond typical genre exercises into something genuinely haunting.

Eddington is that rare film that feels immediately essential – a time capsule created in the moment, yet with the clarity that usually comes only with distance. It leaves us with troubling questions about where we've been and where we're headed. Watch it now and be part of the conversation about one of the year's most provocative cinematic achievements.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
how's it?
I'm alex macaulay and I'm maxfosberg and this is, excuse the
intermission, a discussion showsurrounding how you're being
manipulated.
Eddington, the fourth featurefilm from auteur filmmaker ari
aster, is now in theatersnationwide and reminding us of a
not too distant past filledwith paranoia, protests,
protocols and all kinds ofridiculousness.

(00:30):
Joining max and I on the otherside of this intro to discuss
the film is kaylee, so we willbe right back with our full
spoiler included conversation injust a moment.
All right you.
How are we doing today?

Speaker 2 (00:49):
We're good.
We just got out of the car froma long ride, so we are happy to
be here.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Yes, we were on vacation.
Vacation was really nice.
It was like a one-day.
We had a one-day vacation andyeah, so nice.
Had like a few beers today buttook a long nap in the car
feeling ready.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Okay, well, I was going to say no rest for the
wicked, but I'm glad to hear yougot a couple of road sodas in
you and then that's great.
I was not drinking in the carfor the record, but long past
those days, hopefully uh, so wetook last week off I, not by

(01:30):
design, really, but had I haveknown the energy that I was
going to be coming into thisepisode with um, based off of my
response to the film eddington,I think I would have like
requested a week to prepare umand almost like push this
recording back.
So I needed more because becauseI'm like I need more time to
process what I watched a fewdays ago.
But but so let's kind of talkabout how we're coming into this

(01:54):
episode and just like theenergy that we're bringing to
the pod today, because I had noreal idea of what Eddington was
going to be about, other thanit's the fourth film from Ari
Aster.
I know the cast that's involvedand that it takes place during
the early stages of the COVID-19pandemic, and that's all I

(02:16):
needed to know.
So where were the two of you atwith this film?
Sort of coming off of Bo'sAfraid 2 maybe, and then also
what you knew about um, the film, based off your exposure to
either trailers or reading anyarticles or listening to
interviews.
Kaylee, go ahead yeah,absolutely.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
Um.
So, yeah, I was really excitedto see this and like I didn't
really realize it was coming outthis weekend and I was like out
at a lunch date, being in laand like across from let's
please three, and I saw the theposter like up on the billboard
and I was like, oh my god, it'sout today.
And so then, like I get homeand tech max is already like
texting me, like are we gonna gotonight?
And I was like, oh, yeah, wehave to go.
We're also like getting readyto leave town.
We're trying to leave early ateight in the morning, eight in

(02:55):
the morning the next day.
So we're just like, okay, we'regoing.
We're like we're so excited forthis, we're just gonna make it
happen 8, 45 and get there.
Um, and then, yeah, I meanobviously our yesterday's
amazing, so I was really excitedfor it.
Such amazing casting.
We had seen the trailers likemultiple times, just because we
go to the movies so much, andyou're seeing that trailer every

(03:17):
time and you like can't maxwould like half the time he
would like be covering his earsand eyes and trying to like not
see it.
But, um, yeah, I mean thetrailer really doesn't give you
a lot like I came into it in thecar when we're walking on the
way there, I was like this islike a social media movie.
That's all I remembered fromthe trailers, the times I'd seen
.
He's like I feel like it's muchmore than that, like, so I just
didn't really know what it wasreally.
That's all I remembered.
I actually didn't remember thatit was a pandemic film at all,

(03:38):
which obviously is such a bigpart of the story, and I really
loved Bo's Afraid it definitelywas like.
You know, it's very differentthan this film, which we'll get
into later.
But yeah, I think that like Iwas excited just for the place
he was at, if that was where hewas at, just like really weird,
um, funny.
You know, yeah, really weirdand funny, I was ready for yeah,

(03:59):
I mean, ari Aster, uh, is kindof a event.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
He's becoming an event at the theater, right.
So going into this film, I wasvery excited.
I'm someone who really, reallyenjoyed Bo's Afraid.
I remember seeing that with you, alex, at the Grand.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
I actually got to tell this story of our
experience of Bo's Afraid tosomebody at my screening of
Eddington, because I was in thesame theater and do you remember
what I'm talking about wherethere was someone who had to
access the hearing impaireddevice that the grand cinema
offers.
And kaylee, I don't know ifyou've ever heard this story

(04:37):
really but like just mind meldbetween max and I, because not
that that's an issue or anything, but the device was just turned
up so loud and they were rightbehind us, and so Max and I were
hearing the film being narratedwhile also just trying to watch
it, and so it would be like aman walks down an overpopulated
street full of vagrant you knowaudio descriptions.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
As an editor, we have to like get those sent out and
get audio descriptions, Totallyyeah.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
Well, they're amazing .
The detail is amazing on thosethings.
We heard every bit of it forabout a minute and then without
even really signaling to eachother, making eye contact or
anything.
At the exact same moment, maxand I just got up and didn't
discuss where we were going togo.
He went forward, I wentbackward, and that's how we
watched.

Speaker 3 (05:25):
I was afraid.
Afraid was just like separatefrom each other in the same
theater.
Fast thinking with no talking.
I feel like that's such a movielover solution too, that we're
like we're not gonna discusswhere we're gonna go, we're just
gonna get up and go.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
We know we can't watch two plus hours of of a
film like this, though.
Um.
So yeah, I was.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
I I was thinking about that experience going into
eddington as well, max yeah,and despite, despite the that,
that experience starting likethat, really, really loved that
film, uh, owned it on onphysical, um, I've fired it up
at least once since, uh, sincethe theater, uh, experience.

(06:00):
But but yeah, I mean kind ofgoing into this.
You know I, I was, I was veryexcited for all the, the movie
stars that are in this, thatpopulate this world, uh, and
this and this movie, uh, andthen you know it just from the
trailer.
You know I, I immediately gotno country for old men, vibes,

(06:22):
right, like a modern western, um, we're in new mexico.
You know the desert, we've gotcowboy hats, um, you know, I
think in that trailer they showand we're going to get into
spoilers I, I think throughoutthis podcast but you know, mg,

(06:43):
uh, big machine gun, uh, firingaway.
So, uh, yeah, I was, I was very, very excited and, like I, I
love that.
Ari, you know, I know a lot ofpeople talk about, uh, you know
he started in with withhereditary and horror and he

(07:05):
seems to have kind of driftedaway from that genre.
I it all, they all, I think allfour of his films all really
speak to each other, uh, andthis is still a genre picture
right, it is a western, uh, andand some other genres in there.
But, like I'm, I'm totally okaywith him, him going off the

(07:25):
beaten path.
But I've heard a lot of peoplekind of complain about that
because they hold hereditary atsuch a high value.
But yeah, very excited going inand, like Kaylee said, I was
like, hey, I think I'm going tobe home at like seven o'clock.
I think there's an 8 45 we canget to like let's go see it

(07:49):
tonight.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, uh, and you know, I think that the more you
look at some of his like shortfilms that came out before
hereditary bow is afraid, andnow eddington almost speak more
to what he was interested inexploring with his short films
prior to hereditary and thenmidsommar, and midsommar is

(08:12):
almost becoming more of the likebridge film kind of between
them.
Um, and so I don't, I don'tthink that people should be as
upset as maybe they are getting,thinking that we're like losing
the next, like west craven orsomebody that's just gonna like
stay in this genre forever and,and you know, maybe that's gonna
be start to become more robertedgars, who just kind of stays

(08:34):
in like the horror, gothic umhave horror and gothic tones to
his films, and so I I do likewhat we're getting um from ari
here now, because what he showedand beau was afraid I think he
doubled down on and kind ofproved we're getting so much
more out of him.
This way we're getting so muchmore.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
He's such a freaking genius and like to have him
discussing this real stuff thatmatters is to me so much more
valuable.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
That's also my taste speaking, but yeah for sure, and
I think that some of the at forme personally, like some of the
satire and some of the comedythat didn't work 100% of the
time in Bo's Afraid, while it'sstill being there and
recognizing it and seeing thisshift in tone, I think in
Eddington he got it right everysingle time he went for it, so

(09:20):
really enjoyed that about it.
I'll just start by saying thisI loved the movie.
Um, I think that something I'vetried to work on as a moviegoer
is recognizing and max and I'vetalked about this on multiple
episodes before but recognizingearly on when a movie kind of
has quote, unquote it, and sothat you can really try to be

(09:45):
present in the moment as much aspossible.
So it isn't like you know yourthird or fourth viewing that you
really start to recognize it.
You want to like, try to belike oh my gosh, this is
actually happening and I'm herefor it Weekend one.
I'm seated, it's all going downright now in front of me and
and so that kind of rareelectric energy I could feel

(10:05):
early on in this movie.
Um, and I really, really, whenthat happened, um, it was a
great sensation because it isalmost like listening to a
record or an album that you knowis gonna like, you're gonna
play, not just like a song offof this, but like this entire cd
, like I've had this happen withyou know, like a glass animals
album or lana del rey orsomebody where I'm like I'm

(10:26):
gonna listen to this album, notjust these songs, like for the
rest of my life.
And I can think about that witha few other movies from maybe
the last like five or ten years,um, like like I wrote down here
raw climax, um so the juliaducar new film, the gaspar no
film, the handmaiden park chanwooks film and then also mid

(10:46):
samar by ari aster, where I'mlike these are movies that when
I saw them I was like these arevery recent contemporary movies
but that, like are already in mytop 25 of of all time.
And I don't know if eddington'sgonna go so far as to like
crack, crack a list like that.
But that's just the feelingthat I had in the theater and

(11:07):
coming out of it and still, like48 hours removed, was like I'm
so happy I experienced this weekone.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
It feels like a historical document, like it
feels like this, like it will tome it will live on, just
because of at the least of whatit's about, just because to me
it's like such a great capture,like a great bottle you know
bottle in the ocean, like itjust feels like so capturing it,
like it was just such a weird,like you're saying, like the
feeling watching it was my firstlike review and feeling of it

(11:36):
was just the way the movie mademe feel and the way, from the
very beginning, I was sointrigued.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
I was immediately obsessed with joaquin phoenix's
walk work, like the way he waswalking so I was gonna ask like
was there a moment that kind ofsignaled it to you?

Speaker 3 (11:49):
and I feel like that's one where, like you just
see the way that joaquin's goingto be holding himself and
you're like, oh, this issomething yeah, this is for real
and yeah, but then, like as itlike, and just the feeling of
like feeling the axe, likefeeling the progression, like
you could just feel it like justget faster and faster like a
roller coaster and I love thatwhen someone does it in a really

(12:09):
awesome way, because it's like,because you miss the structure.
I've been thinking about a lotbecause I'm taking screenwriting
classes and I'm writing a lot,so I'm constantly like aware of
like how much do I feel thestructure of this film and this
one I just didn't feel it at alland I love that about it.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yeah yeah, I, yeah, I think it's it's such a, it's
such a great experience becauseit's it is a modern film about
modern times, right, and it isparticularly about how, you know
, the United States of Americais right now and it represents
something, I think, that we wentthrough, but also stuff that we

(12:45):
are still going through, and Ithink it just makes it extra
important and something thatwe'll look back on is like

(13:07):
touchstone or masterpiece thatwe can hold on to.
That gives such a greatsnapshot of the time and feeling
that that we were all having.
Um, you know, because we, Ithink you know we always
mentioned that like, not a lotof like movies that are set in
modern day get made because ofstuff like technology and and
and the phones and computers andall that.
But this is able to, uh, thisis able to clearly and

(13:32):
effectively show that technologyand use that technology, but
then really it just it's a moviethat just makes you feel and
reminds you how you were, howpeople were feeling during, you
know, the year 2020.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
Yeah, I love that.
It's kind of.
My next big thing here is, likeCOVID was used as a backdrop in
this movie and not a gimmicklike so many other films that I
think have come out since 2020.
And so I don't know, how didthat?
How did that feel for you guys?
Because it's not like it wasmeant to be nostalgic, but it
was supposed to be set as a realsetting in a fractured town and

(14:12):
especially like the smaller thetown that you lived in and,
depending on where you weregeographically in the united
states, like all the socialunnerving and the misinformation
and everything that washappening, like there was so
much chaos and desperation, Ithink, communicated in this film
in a really smart, witty andfunny way.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
That does feel like something that we all
experienced, even if we didn'thave a firsthand account, like
like the things that played outin the film yeah, and I mean my
first thing about this, likeeven listening to max talk about
this movie and like how it's socrazy how it captured the
feeling we all were having.
But to me, what makes it one ofthe many things that makes it
brilliant is the fact that it'sall from the sheriff's point of

(14:53):
view and he does not have thesame point of view as a lot of
us in this room.
Um, but yeah, so I think thatthat's what I love is like how
it can still elicit that emotionof being so relatable, just
because it's capturing the world.
Like the mise en scene is sostrong, of like what's going on,
but yet it like puts you in theanti-hero's place, like that's
where you're really seeing itall from.

(15:14):
And like also talking about thetechnology you know we were
talking about.
You know there's not as muchemma stone, necessarily as much
as joaquin, and part of that isbecause it's so from his point
of view.
Like all the point of view ishim texting her at work.
You know he's at work at thesheriff's office and like that's
what his relationship is likewith her.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
Yeah, and so I just think that, like POV and the way
he used it to elicit emotionand to um explore the world,
like choosing to explore thatworld through this specific
perspective, is just to me soballsy and interesting through
this specific perspective isjust to me so ballsy and
interesting.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
I think it's so inner , like it's so funny the way
that um ari chooses to introduceemma stone's character and
joaquin's character and then youget to know the relationship
between this husband and wife,but like he is looking up ways
to like effectively communicatewith her on his phone, while
right next to that right next tohim and his police cruiser is

(16:08):
his laptop screen and she's thewallpaper on there, and so like
he's so obsessed with her, withthat, but without actually
knowing anything about her, andlike this trauma that she's
clearly been trying to processfor years and years and years.
And, and you know you, youstart to learn more about that
as the film goes on.
But already, just thinking backon it, I'm like there's just

(16:30):
he's one of these like a StanleyKubrick where you're like
nothing on screen is there byaccident.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Totally, totally.
He's such a meticulous directorand like every detail.
Not that his films don't haveflaws, but you're right that
everything is intentional.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
I love that about him yeah, like just go ahead, go
ahead I was gonna say like, onthe note of the relationship,
like the relationship itself isso thought-provoking.
Like we walked out of thetheater I was like it's just
interesting how in love with herhe is, and max was like he's
not in love with her, like, solike kind of like on exactly
what you're saying and it kindof elicits this, this debate of
like, what love is and what, howlove happens.

(17:09):
And then also, um but yeah, Ithought that was I didn't even
remember that opening what maxreminded me of it.
We were like talking and I waslike, oh, because they don't
bring it back.
And I think that's also reallyinteresting, like from a writing
standpoint again, of like youdon't have to bring back every
single little thing.
But it still was such a greatopener and gave us so much just
from that one mention of it thathe was no spoilers yet.
But yeah, the like what he wasyoutubing about her and trying

(17:31):
to communicate with her, yeah,yeah no, I think.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
I think we should give like a quick synopsis of
the film and then really startto dive into spoilers, because
if you are listening to this uhpodcast without having seen the
film, kudos to you.
We are going to just like goall in though here.
But so, if you don't know, itis a Western, a modern Western,
that takes place in New Mexico,may of 2020, I believe it is.

(17:56):
So, you know, take yourselfback five years and try to think
of what was going on in yourlife then.
And Joaquin Phoenix is thesheriff of this small town.
Also in this small town isPedro Pascal.
He is the mayor figure.
He is up for reelection.
The first hour of the movie isreally these two powers in town
having this ridiculous disputeover policies and procedures and

(18:22):
the way that they are going torespond to the COVID-19 pandemic
and all the other little, veryinteresting nuances that are
taking place in this town.
Some of it is on Puebloterritory, and so there's this
indigenous component to thisstory, and so you get all of
these little things that wereintroduced to his relationship

(18:42):
with Emma Stone, who is verydespondent to him.
They have her mother living withthem now.
You can tell that there'stension there.
Joaquin has a very smalldepartment in the sheriff's
office and so it sets up forsome really, really funny
moments that are two-part funnybecause they're written

(19:03):
extremely well, but also becausethe absurdity of it all and I
think that five years removedfrom this time, maybe some folks
who wouldn't be laughing, um,who would not have been laughing
five years ago, can kind of wecan all kind of take a step back
and and have a good time withthis, and so that's before we
get to like the second half ofthe movie and then when it

(19:24):
really turns, let's just likepause for a second.
Do you guys think that likethis felt more in tune, um,
based off of our relationshipthat we have with that time now,
as opposed to a lot of thecovid movies that were coming
out about covid that were inproduction in like 2020, 2021,
2022, when it started to feelmaybe like a little bit too on

(19:46):
the nose?

Speaker 3 (19:48):
I think.
First of all, I think it'sinteresting.
I've been hearing that peopleare saying this like is a little
too soon for some people, whichI think is really funny, just
because it's like to me that wasso satisfying, like how recent
it is.
It's really still not that.
Also, I think we keepforgetting how long ago covid
was.
Now like five years is a lot oftime in life, um, but okay,

(20:11):
what are other films that arecovid related that you're
thinking of?
I'm curious because I actuallydon't really.
I think this one was just so onthe nose with it.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
It doesn't almost doesn't even come to mind yeah,
I mean so many of them were likesmall mid-budget films that
were like being releasedstraight to streamers.
Like I know, HBO had one with acouple that was in lockdown
Chuelta, Chuelta Tay Ejiofor inlike.
Hathaway and Hathaway were inthat one.
Another movie that I reallylike by Soderbergh Kimmy came

(20:39):
out.
I like that film, but that usedthe pandemic in a different way
.
A lot of horror films came outthat played with the idea of
like people wearing masks andstuff like this.
So we did get a lot of them,but nothing on this scale and
nothing that had the benefitlike.
This movie has an incredibletagline.
I don't know if you guys saw,but it's hindsight is 2020
that's the yeah, really good.
So, um, not that this is apandemic movie, but something

(21:02):
else that it.
That it's gotten me thinkingabout is that, like this movie
and the social network, I think,have a lot in common with each
other because of how soon thatwas after the events of like
facebook launching and markzuckerberg's kind of like rise
and fall and everything elselike that, and I think aaron
sorkin and david fincher werepraised for like jumping on that
early and not telling a storylike 20 or 30 years prior.

Speaker 3 (21:25):
I think that we're gonna have the same sort of
relationship to this filmbecause of how soon it came
after the events in which it'sportraying yeah, and I think
it's also interesting becauseit's such a specific, like the
fact it's in this made-up town,eddington, um, so I'm from
lawrence, cancer, so I'm a smalltown like 90 000 people.
So it's interesting because alot there was a lot more

(21:47):
parallels than to our likewashington life, because
washington kind of had so manypeople like even tacoma has a
lot of people, seattleespecially.
I was in seattle during thepandemic, which was total hell,
um, just because it's such anexpensive city and I didn't have
any work.
I'm a freelancer but, um, butit stressful, um, but being from
like a small town, though, itwas really interesting going

(22:08):
back and seeing how many peoplewere against masks.
That was a huge.
And this is like a liberal town.
This is a depth, like cool,cool people that were very
anti-mask and mostly because ofthe kind of little true thing of
like it really wasn't happeningin those places.
There wasn't a lot of people asmuch as much it happens and
it's still like we have toconsider people.
But I just think it wasinteresting to hear that of like

(22:28):
.
I remembered hearing that andremembered, like studying that
of like what do people mean whenthey say because it's happening
everywhere?

Speaker 1 (22:35):
that that's what I'm saying where this movie almost
has this weird, um, like mandelaeffect of like I'm sitting here
thinking did I hear somebodysay that, like well, there's no
covet in Gig Harbor, you know?
Because, like people are likewell, there's no COVID in
Eddington, when he has that line, I'm dying laughing, cause I'm
like, whether or not you'velived in a town that had people

(22:55):
believing that or not, you feellike you heard somebody say that
.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah, that's.
That's definitely part of, like, the brilliance of the film to
set it in such a small town andI think maybe that's why it's
it's way more effective thansomething like that, that Anne
Hathaway movie, right wherethey're like in a big city and
they're like, if I remember thatmovie correctly, they're like
robbing jewelry stores duringthe pandemic.

(23:22):
And then like kind of hiding outtogether and stuff, like yeah,
I don't know which is which isodd, that's just an odd premise
to begin with, but, um, but yeah, I'm setting it in a rural
small town, yeah, uh, and alsolike new mexico is kind of like
like the forbidden zone of ofamerica, like there's just

(23:45):
nothing there.
I know a friend that grew up inNew Mexico and I remember him
telling me when we first metthat he had like 40 kids in his
graduating high school class andso just to begin with, there's
just nothing out there, right,and it's just a great setting

(24:06):
for what turns into like aparanoia conspiracy, you know
driven film, because it's such asmall group of people.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
So that's really then when the movie starts to take
this turn into its second hour.
They really last like the final90 minutes of the film and all
these other characters thatwe've been introduced to.
Like Pedro Pascal, he has ateenage son and he has a friend,
and they're both sort ofinterested in the same woman,
this activist of sorts in thissmall town, because as the movie

(24:41):
goes along, the real events ofthat time start to play out.
So you have the murder ofgeorge floyd, you have the blm
movement, you have so much goingon that once again feels like a
lived experience to us.
And then and then the movie doeswhat I won't say is becoming
like ari's signature um thing,but it it takes this like white

(25:06):
knuckle turn into full tensionbuilding and chaos where this,
this weak, feeble man who isobsessed with power and has no
power that's always like thefunniest part about it is
they're obsessed with this thingthat they don't actually have
everything starts to spiralaround them and it just turns

(25:29):
into this like anxiety inducing,like real thriller of a movie
that gets very gory at times.
It turned that has like somegreat, not jump scares but
incredible moments of sounddesign where something catches
you off guard and you you dojump in your seat, um, and so
once, once, like that absurdismkind of in the humor sort of

(25:52):
turns.
Do you think that that wasexecuted well?
Did you respond to that?
How did you like the way thatthe movie sort of um hits us
with the right and then hits uswith the left and and goes for
the knockout?

Speaker 3 (26:07):
next.
Okay, I go first.
Um, so I have.
This is actually one of thethings.
I think my only like negativefeeling of the whole movie and
it's not this exact turn, butlike the whole thing with the
kids it's just a little hard tolike that.
The way that was playing outwas a little bit forced, like
when the kid, when, uh, pedro'sson bikes by and he's like what
about your wife?

(26:27):
You know what about what?
My dad is your wife?
Right, there's a ton of like,little like punches trying to
like remind us that there was athing with the wife and peter
pascal's character and it justthat that whole thing was like a
little bit just.
It just didn't feel as much.
I wasn't as invested in thatlike part until later, but then
it has a great like payoff whichmakes it worth it.
But I did feel like that was alittle clunky, like, kind of

(26:48):
like, and I think that is kindof the bridge that takes us
partly into that, because partof the main, are we in the
spoiler territory?
oh, totally we're there because,right, the big thing is that
when he kills um pascal, what ispascal's character name?
Um, but yeah, kills the techguy ted, ted, classic, um.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
So when he kills ted and his son, like that's really
when things shift over, and partof that is due to that other
storyline yeah, Well, I think,actually thinking about it more,
that I think the kid alwaysmentioning that kind of
reinforces of how small thistown is and how rural it is,

(27:30):
because, even though we neverreally learned the the true
story of of this rumor that'sgoing around about joe cross's
wife and ted from back when theywere, what, 14 and 18 or
whatever it is, um, I think thatI I think that plays okay to to

(27:55):
help remind us like, oh, we'rein like a town of you know, 20
000 people no, it's like 5 000people.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
We see it on the sign .

Speaker 2 (28:05):
Yeah, yeah yeah, 5 000 people.
They're.
They're everyone knowseverybody and everyone knows
everyone's business.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
Well, and it's like would you all call each other
out?

Speaker 3 (28:14):
Would you all call each other out?

Speaker 2 (28:17):
I mean, I think the son has some power, right?
Well he's he's exactly.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
He's playing to the archetype of like whatever you
want to call it, a baron Trump.
You know somebody who's likedad, is a politician and who is
the most important and they feellike you know, they're
untouchable.
He's, he's driving around, he'syou know the movie we are
introduced to him like smokingweed with his like would be
friend in front of a cop and himbeing like what's that smell?

(28:44):
And the son responds like yourass or something like that you
know, he's he's so entitled and,and you see that throughout his
entire arc, um until yes, hischaracter meets his demise
because he's sending the dms tohis friend, he's sending his dms
to the police officer of himhooking up with this girl, um,
who he's kind of that character.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
you plug in that character that you're like this
is the character that's gonnawreak havoc and like fuck shit
up in the story yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah.
So I don't know, max, what didyou think about the turn when,
when we went from like absurdistcomedy almost to like absurdist
thriller?

Speaker 2 (29:18):
I I loved it.
It was, it was shocking.
Yeah, I think I said this toyou, alex that, and I think
Kaylee too, but the this is likeone of the first movies in a
long time where I had no realidea where it was going, scene
to scene, right, a lot of movies, you know, you can kind of see
the, the, the light at the endof the tunnel, and like, okay, I

(29:40):
, I know what path we're on, um,but this I I mean, I was, I was
shocked.
I was shocked when pedro paskilled.
Yeah, I'm shocked when we shootthe kid as well, I'm shocked
when we shoot the homeless man,like it is, and it all kind of

(30:00):
happens like right in a row andso it's very.

Speaker 1 (30:05):
He's a spree killer.
Yeah, yeah, it's just a great.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
It's a great experience of great experience
of, like you know, being it's atwist, it's a, it's a great.

Speaker 3 (30:16):
Yeah, uh, that is so fun to watch happen it makes me
think of the godfather, though,where it's like, all of a sudden
, the solution is always just tokill everyone, right?
That's always the solution incertain movies, you're like well
, here's where we're going.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
The solution is just to kill people but I I agree
with you and I'll like build andstack on that too, though,
where, when this happens, it'san hour into the film and I'm
not here to say that, like thesatire and the world building of
this small town and covid wasstarting to feel stale, but like
after a solid hour of likereally good laughs and really

(30:49):
interesting plot development andcharacter development, a little
bit of me was thinking like howis this?
Like where, how are we going tokeep this going for another
hour and a half?
And then, when that turnhappens, I'm like, once again it
goes back to that like firstfive minutes of the movie where
I'm like, oh yeah, I don't needto worry about that because I'm
in good hands right now yeah, Ilove that, yeah, because I I

(31:14):
mean any other director.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
It probably, you know , the final scene might turn
into some some sort of likedebate or something right
between these two mayorcandidates, right?
Or?
Or we just continue to go downthis path of of this competition
.
Um, so yeah, to to totallyswitch lanes and be like, no,
we're gonna, we're gonna havehim become the world's greatest

(31:40):
sniper, which is also set upearlier it is set up really well
yeah it is.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
It is um so OK.
So now I we have to talk abouthow kind of everyone is put
under a microscope with this,with this film, and that really
nobody's safe.
And I love.
I love that about this moviebecause it reminds me a lot of
what we liked so much about amovie from last year Alex
Garland's Civil War where youcould feel like the filmmaker is

(32:09):
not really picking a side, andI felt that in this movie a lot
as well, where by the end of themovie you know like clearly who
the bad guys and if there areanybody who, if there maybe is
anybody who's kind of like comesout unscathed, then I can think
of one character really, youknow Deputy Michael, who is kind

(32:30):
of like the one person who sortof comes out unscathed.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
But I mean physically scathed.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
Well yeah not physically um but, like from
your, um, your performativesocial justice protesters to so
funny right um, you know, to thecops and the politicians who
are playing their power games,um, which which is, I think,
such a great microcosm of of ourcountry.

(32:56):
Again, like what we're saying,this is set in 2025 or it's set
in 2020, but it feels like itcould be in 2025 because once
again, like ari is showing usthat everyone gets so caught up
in left versus right and races,and like racism, and in
different cultures clashingtogether, when really, like, the

(33:18):
big bad in this movie is bigdata and big corporations, you
know, coming in and they willuse whoever, whatever puppet
serves them best.
Like at the beginning of themovie it is the Ted Garcia Pedro
Pascal character.
By the end of the film it'sjoaquin's character, and so I I
think that, like between, andthen even joaquin's uh, deceased

(33:40):
, his late stepfather orfather-in-law, um, you know,
emma stone's dad in the in thefilm, who we never meet but we
see he's always like, idolized.
There's a a photo of him hangingin their house with a candle
lit under it a shrine much likehow I was texting back and forth
with the friend who I went andsaw this film with afterwards

(34:02):
just like couldn't shut up aboutit, all these little things
that that, um, I'm thinking ofwhere I'm like that's like how
people would idolize, you know,presidents.
They would have a picture, youknow, like a painting of Obama
or JFK in your house orsomething like that.
Well, here Ari is clearlymaking a point to be like.
This is a man who, bycircumstances of the film we are

(34:23):
learning, is probably apedophile and has probably
abused his daughter and themother, has been complicit the
entire time.
And this is someone who is alsobeing like, worshiped and
thought of as this, like greatman who once held this community
together.
Draw through lines to ourcurrent president, draw through
lines to whichever politicalfigure who that's been in hot

(34:44):
water for similar you knowissues over the past couple of
years.
And I'm like we're no one'ssafe once again, like we're
going after everybody with thisscript.
Um, and so I just I love that.
How did you guys sort of feelabout you know it?
Almost, to me it almost feltlike an episode of south park
where I'm just like, oh yeah, noone's safe, like just like
we're gonna make fun ofeverybody yeah, I mean the

(35:08):
internet.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
Yeah, I mean the Internet, social media, the cops
, politics, religion, activism.
It goes after every singlething and he touches on almost
every issue that has really likedivided us as as people.

(35:31):
Right, and again, I think it'sjust such a great and it doesn't
really take sides at all.
Right, he just is examining theabsurdity of it, and and again,
what these people are, whatthese characters are feeling, um
, and I I just think it's, it'smasterly, it it's so well done,

(35:53):
uh, and I I really enjoyed it, II love you know I'm a huge fan
of south park, so you makingthat connection makes so much
sense to me.
But yeah especially movies andand I think when you are
tackling you know, I I feel likemaybe in social network they
also kind of did that too.
Right, like zuckerberg is notthe good guy in that movie.

(36:14):
No, yeah, totally neither.
Neither is timberlake'scharacter, neither are the
winklevoss twins.
You know, maybe andrew garfieldis kind of the one guy you feel
empathy and sympathy for, butthis movie there is, there is no
good person here.
There's no one.
And again, it's a reflection ofour world that we just we want

(36:37):
to just scream and yell at eachother and and deny each other
Right.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
No one wants to agree .
I think Scorsese quoted thatabout this film.
He was like Ari does such agood job of painting this
picture of people and how no onewants to agree with each other.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
One line I really loved from Austin Butler's
character was like when he'ssitting down to dinner with Joe
Cross and he's like we aredenying the denial, it's just
like a double negative.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
Yeah, it's so real.
One thing I was going to say Ilove that Alex kind of touched
on this, but also like the factthat everyone is attacked.
But then I think that the bigissue, the big issue is the
system, the system being likethe people that are making the
data center, the business people, the big business people who
are funding TED, these are thepeople that are really the issue
.
Business people, the bigbusiness people who are funding
TED, these are the people thatare really the issue.
And you kind of get that at thevery beginning, in that opening

(37:33):
shot, like at the very opening,you get this like kind of like
thesis stated, theme stated,where you have this homeless man
trekking around and then youkind of zoom in on that sign of
the data center being built, oflike this is what's causing this
and this is where the povertyhappens in our country and this
is where these things are reallyhappening.
So, yeah, I think that, likethat character is so important

(37:55):
because he, to me, representspoverty and like what that?
Yeah, just like which, to me,is the biggest problem in our
country, in our world right now.
And yeah, I think that the bigbusiness is is the biggest issue
and I think that, yeah, likenobody's right because really as
people we can't do anythingwhen these people are puppeteers
and controlling everything inthe whole world.

(38:15):
You know, and I think that wasreally interesting to see how we
are in fighting and we need tohave he said that in the
interview on Big Pick, like itwould be great if we had
solidarity, because really it'snot us that has control of any
of this of this and he bookendsthe film with it.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
So you obviously know that he wants us thinking about
that, where we see this townthat has somewhat like
rehabilitated itself post wildshootout in the middle of the
night, and and then, after wezoom out, we see the data center
has been built.
It is now looming over thistown, um, it once again just
like a microcosm of of theunited states, really, this

(38:54):
small town of eddington, and how, yeah, whatever you want to
call it, ai, um, you know it'scoming for, it's coming for
everybody.
Uh, the company named goldenmagic carp, I think, is the name
of the company.
Yeah, it's like so funny, um,but yeah, I mean the, the social
media as a weapon, um, I I kindof want to go back to that

(39:15):
because I feel like, for all ofthe acclaim that for the people
who have really responded tothis film and the things that
I'm seeing now on trailers, um,or like tv spots advertising it,
where it's just like the, thefirst true great Western da da,
da, da da.
What they don't tell you isthat, like no one's holding a
six shooter in this, in thismovie, but they're all on their

(39:38):
phones.
Like the phones are the thingsthat might as well have holsters
like that.
Yeah, I love that's whateverybody is using kind of as
their weapon, whether it is theteens and they're starting to,
you know they're.
They're again that, thisperformative social justice.
They're just trying to like useit to hook up and and we're
going to just like do a quickGoogle search of the author of

(39:58):
the book that the girl's holdingso I can go over and try to
crack an icebreaker so fuckingfunny, um.
Or or even Joaquin Phoenixtrying to figure out a way to
connect, like, god forbid, hegoes and just talks to her, but
he's going to try and figure outa way to communicate with his
wife based off of a YouTubevideo that he's seen.
Or the mother who falls asleepto the doom scroll of YouTube,

(40:23):
just getting fed these differentideas.
And so, yeah, I don't know.
Once again, we see social mediaand we see cell phones used so
much in movies.
Max, you're absolutely right.
A lot of people shy away fromit in making modern movies now.
Or if they are introduced, it'salmost like going back up to
the top.
We're like Ari didn't use thepandemic as a gimmick.

(40:44):
He also didn't use cell phonesas a gimmick.
In this phone, where the textbubbles are popping up on the
screen and you're seeing howpeople are talking back and
forth like that, there's nothingthat feels trite about it at
all.
Once again just feels reallylike as something that we've
done before, experienced beforeor something we've seen on

(41:05):
reddit.
You know, there's like the I Iswear at one point they were
watching videos of like chop andI'm like holy shit, like I and
I say jane durkin the verybeginning, the very opener was
talking about jane durkin, themayor of seattle, and I was like
but, then max like looked at me.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
I was like, okay, I'll be quiet, but like I'm
being from seattle, I was in la,but yeah, um, I think that,
yeah, the social media is crazy.
I want to touch quickly on themom and like her whole thing
with the social media and likeher arc, like the fact that
going back to also just like theworld and who's the problem,

(41:40):
though, like she, I think one ofmy one of my favorite like
thematic moments with her iswhen Emma Stone tries to bring
up that her dad, what her daddid to her, and her mom totally
shuts her down and is like notthere for her and I feel like
her mom just has this way oflike being there for her in
weird moments and like kind ofis the one who makes her run

(42:00):
away with Vernon the, the bigScientology guy I'm calling
gonna call him the Scientologyguy because that to me is like
his energy and then like, butthen at the end she and she's
like such a like antagonist tojoe cross and then like at the
end, like the fact that sheactually like takes care of him
in order to get all this power,like that was just to me like

(42:21):
the perfect ending, the perfectbookend of like how nobody,
everybody's a bad guy andeverybody, like is kind of being
selfish and doing whatever.
Yeah, I just thought that wasreally crazy.
And like also her just yeah,her influence, the social media
influence, like she was so kindof brainwashed by it and like
yeah, it was crazy she was.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
She was brainwashed by it.
The same way, I'm sure she wasbrainwashed by her husband into
thinking that this abuse eitherwasn't happening or that, if she
did know it was happening, thatshe needed to become maybe not
necessarily an enabler, butsomeone who just like, wasn't
going to come forward, right andand then, yeah, once she feels

(43:01):
like she, the little bit ofpower that she can start to have
over Joaquin Sheriff'scharacter, is like I'm going to,
I'm going to do this thing formy daughter because I think it's
what she needs, and then itends up backfiring on her.
Then, you know, joaquin's theonly person she's left with, um,
and he just happens to be inthis vegetative state and she
can once again, like, takeadvantage of the situation yeah,

(43:22):
and one other thing about whatyou were saying about the phones
that I thought was reallyinteresting was like he he's
such an amazing.

Speaker 3 (43:28):
He always has such great cinematography.
The cinematographer of this, Iknow, is like one of the best
cinematographers modern history.
I don't think he's worked withthe cinematographer before if
I'm right yeah, but I think thecool thing with this that's the
big one.
And then I think the thingthat's interesting is like
filmmakers that don't want touse the cell phones it's because
, like, you're scared of yourfilm not being cinematic is kind

(43:48):
of what I would feel about itbut it's like if you use them
for this really powerful storypiece and then you can still
have these epic shots like.
One of my favorite shots in thefilm is when Joaquin Phoenix is
like arguing with um Luis andthrough the door and it's like
there's just a great and framewithin frame which is very like
Sergio Leone, with these likeframes within frames, and he was

(44:10):
able to like pull in a lot ofthat influence, which I thought
was really cool.
So, yeah, I just think that itwas really impressive how it was
still a gorgeous and like wecompared as no country for old
men, like those big landscapesthat we got these gorgeous shots
of, and like the phone theAmerican, but there was still,
like all these like justgorgeous, amazing landscapes and
like, yeah, I just think that'samazing, like I could still win

(44:33):
a cinematography award eventhough court you know, 25 to 35
of the film is phone screenslike darius congee.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
I gotta give this guy a shout out.
I'm looking at his his catalogright here yeah, I mean
incredible stuff has worked withmichael haneke a bunch funny
games.
Amore did panic room did seven.
So a collaborator with fincherbong joon-ho.
He did mickey, 17, uncut gems,oakja.
Um, you know, throw in someguilty pleasures like the beach,

(45:02):
the ruins, like all kinds ofgood stuff, yeah now add
eddington to that list soamazing uh, yeah, music also.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
I thought that the score was incredibly well
composed and did a great job ofadding a lot of tension,
especially to the second half ofthe film yeah, it seemed kind
of like mild in the first half,which I liked, yeah yeah, and
that again that drawscomparisons to no country right
Like we're, you know they're,they're almost trying to do in

(45:34):
that first half like no scorealmost, but but then once the
action or the tension or itbecomes, you know, the the
thriller that it is, it's, it'sextremely effective um, so okay,
I'm I've.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
I think it's time to kind of just like go off script
here and talk about because Idon't really have too much more
um, and I don't want to likespoil absolutely everything for
anybody listening who maybehasn't seen the film or wants to
go back and and re-watch it orsomething like that.
But what were just like some ofyour favorite moments of the

(46:11):
movie, or did you have aparticularly fate like favorite
performance, like what?
What are the?
What are the parts that standout the brightest to you?
Kaylee, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
Um well, yeah, one of the other like last notes I was
thinking of was comparing it toother films, two things like
social network doesn't reallyattack the systems, as we were
talking away earlier, comparedto this one, and then also
thinking of when he brings outthe machine gun towards the end,
like it felt very leonardocaprio, and the fire, the fire
the flamethrower in once upon atime in hollywood, like.
That's what made me think of.

(46:43):
So, yeah, just like fun, allthe different directions it went
um favorite part I just wasenjoying, I feel like just the
whole progression of it.
But I think that one of themost like, clever and like I
love the kind of metaphor for itof like when the very the
opener, when he's going to PedroPascal's bar and they're

(47:04):
talking through the glass, likethat to me is really memorable
because the homeless guys thereand he's like and they're just
trying to like resolve theconflict between them and like
we know that he can hear him,but he's saying he can't hear
him like also just kind ofinteresting perspective thing
that the film is playing withand like I think that scene was
just so well played and justkind of once again makes reminds

(47:25):
you that you're in good handslike this person.
No, this director knows whatthey're doing and this is like
this scene has a lot of meaningto it, even though it's kind of
just.
It's an everyday scene almost.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
Yeah well and again, kind of a another metaphor of
like how we fight now is throughcomputer screens, pieces of
glass right where we just yellat each other as opposed to like
coming into the same room andfiguring out a solution.
Yeah, I think by far myfavorite moment in the scene,

(47:57):
and probably the funniest moment, is when we're with the kids
who are the BLM protesters.
And Brad is it Brad or Brian?
I?

Speaker 3 (48:13):
think it's Brian.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
The friend of Ted's son, brian, is being lectured on
how his whiteness is bad andthen, like smash cuts to him in
his dining room with his parentsand he's regurgitating this
whole speech and then there is along silence and then the dad

(48:38):
is just like what the fuck areyou talking about?
You are white.

Speaker 3 (48:44):
My theater lost it, wait a minute.
I love that moment.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
I love the moment when Joaquin Stops at the
grocery store and has a mask andhe's like, can't breathe, he
can't breathe.
And then he like takes off themask and he has to go stand in
line in front of the huge Tedmural.
And then the whole, the wholescene inside there where, like,
people are clapping becausesomeone got kicked out for not

(49:10):
wearing a mask, and Joaquin thenstarts yelling about policy and
law and all that stuff someonepulls out their phone and he's
like is this, is this good foryour instagram?
yeah, so funny uh, and then andthen the end, the last scene
that we see joe cross when he islifted into bed in his

(49:34):
vegetable state, and then themother-in-law gets into bed, and
then the, the home nurse alsogets into bed.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
All three of them hilarious just hilarious and
also, again, just like aconfirmation that, like this,
woman is also a predator and nota good person like, not that we
didn't need any moreconfirmation, but just like one
more reminder yep, yep, well, uh, what were some of your
favorite moments, alex?
so I love I the the movie reallyturns on the blm protest in

(50:10):
downtown eddington and so Ireally really liked that segment
of the film because that's kindof where the pivot sort of like
that's the crux of the whole,pivot right there, like if that
scene doesn't work, then I thinkthe transition into chaos at
the end doesn't really workeither.

(50:30):
But like so much is happeningand the camera is going 360
around that entire group, um ofpeople out there, there's just,
like you know, there's a lot ofblocking, a lot of staging that
goes into something like thatand it is equal parts funny,
like how the first half of themovie has been, but then also
equal parts, like someone mightget shot at any second here, um,
which is the feeling that youhave throughout the entire final

(50:53):
90 minutes of the movie.
And so I love that scenebecause I thought it was
perfectly executed and sets usup for just a great final act.
Everything when it does becomea little bit of a conspiracy
caper and the one officer fromthe Pueblo tribe, from their,

(51:14):
their law enforcement agency, isstarting to put things together
.
Like I'm sitting there anddoing my best not to talk during
the movie, but also kind oflike sharing with my seatmate.
I'm like, oh, oh, he's going tosee like cause he he made
mention of, like a handwritingspecialist no justice, no peace
in the way that the three waswritten.
And if he goes back and goes tothe police station he's gonna

(51:35):
see the campaign ideas with the,the e written the same way,
like the letter three or thenumber three and all these
little things that like do startto unravel.
Just like the more you pull thethread, like the looser it's
gonna get for joaquin'scharacter.
You know that and so I lovedwhen it just it was so
propulsive for the final, like45 minutes leading up to then

(51:56):
this great shootout that againlike I don't know where, like
that's something I've not seenin ari's bag yet, like short
films, feature films, anythinglike that.
There's a little bit of likeexperimentation as far as um,
you know, moving the cameraaround and bow is afraid in
these big outdoor settings thatare not controlled, and I just

(52:18):
thought that the lack of scoreduring that moment and when the
camera would swing 90 degreesone way, you're waiting for a
gun flash or something to comeout of a dark alley.
Nothing happens.
It swings back 180 degrees thenext direction and and it's
almost like you're playing afirst person shooter video game,
um with him in the street, andso all of that was just amazing

(52:41):
as well.
Great sound design during all ofit, um, with the bullets flying
and stuff, and so, yeah, I meanas far as like, are we making
an action movie?
I don't know if we could ever.
I don't know if we'll ever getlike two hours we making an
action movie.
I don't know if we could ever.
I don't know if we'll ever getlike two hours of just an action
movie, but I was like, holyshit, these are some chops that
I didn't know he had.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
So good.
One of my other favorite scenesis the very beginning, when we
get introduced to the mom andshe's like making breakfast or
whatever, and she's talking toEmma Stone's character from the
kitchen and she's like blahcharacter from the kitchen and
she's like blah, blah, blahgoing on all of her conspiracies
and then she's like I can'thear you, what did you say?
And then joaquin looks at herlike don't, don't ask you know
like we don't want to know whichis such a classic family moment
.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
I just feel like and then she's like what were you
saying, mom?

Speaker 3 (53:23):
and he's like yeah, like don't do it, we don't want,
we don't care what she's saying, so funny there are so many
moments like that.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
I cannot.
I've already made plans to gosee it again.
I cannot wait to just start tolike get some of those.
I don't necessarily think thatthey're one-liners the way that
like super bad has one-linersbut just like to really remember
, like word for word, what someof those beats are um during
that first hour, because thereare so many laugh out loud

(53:51):
moments in this movie.
So now here's a question,because this was something that
I had to do as well, because Ihad such a strong positive
response to this film.
I was like I need to go ontoletterbox and I need to read
some one-star reviews.
I need to see why people maybearen't responding to this film
the way that I am, because boxoffice is never a movie like

(54:14):
eddington's goal.
It was released on, I think,like 2100 screens um around the
country this last weekend, soit's never going to like make
100 million dollars or anythinglike that.
But I am surprised to see likeI think it has a low 3.2 3.3 on
letterbox right now.
It's like a 60 to 70 across alot of the other platforms

(54:35):
rotten tomatoes, metacritic,whatever, take your pick.
So why is it that you guysthink that maybe some people are
split on this film uh, I, Ithink, probably because it
attacks everyone.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
So everyone, if you can't, if you can't, uh, handle
the attack, I think, I thinkyou're gonna respond negatively
to it.
Um, I think also, like it's anextremely hard movie to market,
right, like it's not an actionmovie, it's not a straight up

(55:07):
comedy, even though it'sextremely funny, and it's not
even like a traditional Westernright Like it's it has.
It has a lot of those tropesand pieces all mashed together.
But like what do you tell?
I mean, I guess you tellsomeone it's a black comedy in a
Western setting, but but reallyit's.

(55:29):
It's about, you know, themodern world and social media
and politics and all this stuff.
So I feel like maybe somepeople are going in thinking
like, oh well, joaquin in thetrailer is wearing a white hat.
So he is the white hat Westernsheriff who's going to save the

(55:51):
town from a corrupt politician.

Speaker 3 (55:55):
But really he's just as bad as that corrupt
politician I mean, a lot ofpeople say it's like if you
didn't like bow is afraid,you're not gonna like this one,
like a lot of people said that,but I feel like they're so
different.
I find this to be so much morewell packaged than bow is afraid
, like wow, well, they'repackaged in very different ways.
This is a much moreapproachable, mainstream way of
packaging a film versussomething like bow is afraid,
which really is like, takes itstime with you in such an epic

(56:17):
way.
Um, so yeah, I wonder if it'sjust kind of the absurdism like
if people just aren't on boardwith the absurdism and like if
it's not in a horror context,like maybe people are more
willing to handle absurdismwithin that genre versus a more
of a black comedy.
But it also like, yeah, I don'tknow, but yeah, I think that's
kind of maybe the main one, Iwould guess.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
I do think that a lot of people who have seen it and
who have struggled with it are,I think I think they right like
what you were saying, max.
It attacks everybody, sothey're seen there, they, they.
It holds up a mirror toeverybody and sooner or later
you're not going to like one ofthose reflections.
And so I think a lot of peopleare saying that like, well, this

(57:02):
is virtue signal signaling.
And Ari, as this woke white manis trying to be like Look, I'm
one of the good guys, or I don'teven really know, but it it
just feels.
It just feels like they can'tsee that he is also putting
those people under a microscopewhere, like the one kid who

(57:25):
basically turns into KyleRittenhouse by the end of the
film, which is just so fucking.

Speaker 3 (57:29):
Gainesville, baby yeah, it's so good, it's so good
, it's so freaking good.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
I turned to my friend and I was like or I think she
said she was like, of coursethey're in Florida.
It's just so funny.

Speaker 3 (57:45):
But like I, like I didn't.
I saw some issues with CivilWar, but I didn't find this to
have that like I don't know.
Some people said Civil Wardidn't take asides because
people didn't like that.
But yeah, it's like I didn'tfeel that way about this.
I feel like this film was alittle more honest and objective
way, or like the ending, didn'tI like the ending of this one?

Speaker 1 (58:02):
but I don't know, all of a sudden I'm just thinking
of comparing to civil warbecause I feel like probably the
same people maybe would havecritiques of this I, I
definitely agree and I I justthink that like, when, when, uh,
that that one character just tolike close this loop real quick
when he is at the vigil for hisfriend who he hated, but then
he goes there and he has theline and again, this is the,

(58:23):
this is one that like I can'twait for a rewatch so that I can
get it absolutely right.
But when he's like I'mdelivering this speech on stolen
land and I'm going to go homeand think about that when I'm
done talking here, or whatever,like it's like Ari is so clear
that he's like, yeah, maybe Ishouldn't be the one to tell
this story.

Speaker 3 (58:46):
But like.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
I'm telling it and I'm going to make sure that
everyone is is kind of likeexposed here.

Speaker 2 (58:54):
Yeah, I think also people could hate it because
it's bleak, it's dark.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
It's sad Like, yeah, the bad guy wins.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:03):
So true.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
Like we, we end the film with the big tech building
open and uh.
So yeah, I think it willprobably leave a bad taste now,
or a nasty taste in your mouth,but I I enjoy that nasty taste
me too absolutely.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
Especially too, when, like I don't need the veil to
be pulled over my face any morethan it already is.
Like I think we know that a lotof bad people won quote unquote
during the pandemic.
I think that we understand that, like we don't need to see the
faces of these guys who wereportraying antifa basically
being flown in on a private jetby the big corporations like we

(59:49):
and I think that's where maybesome people are like the film
jumps the shark and it just likebecomes so crazy at the end or
whatever.
Dah, dah, dah, dah dah.
And it's kind of like, did younot pay attention to the news?
Did you not see what washappening around our country?
Like this isn't pulled out oflike some far off crazy
dreamscape of Ari's, like thiswas happening and and if you

(01:00:11):
don't think that this stillcouldn't happen to fix a very
like sensitive politicalsituation, like then you're the
one who's in denial.
Like you know, I've also seenpeople be like, well, the Emma
Stone, austin Butler plot linewas like so it was unnecessary
and yada, yada, yada.
We should have gone into thatmore.
More people need to pay moreattention to to how people are

(01:00:37):
billed when it comes to casting.
Because this is the first timein a really, really long time
where I have such a anappreciation for the movie
poster that says and in the inin the credits, where it says
with emma stone and austinbutler, and, and it's just that
should let you know that likethey are basically there as like
cameo characters, right, likethe movie and it's all about his

(01:01:00):
perspective.

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
It's just about whose perspective it is, it's not
supposed to be about them.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
Like, their characters obviously are going
to have influence over hisdecisions and that's going to
play a huge part in the film andso, like, appreciate it for
that.
But it would be like watching,you know, like some other big
ensemble like Pulp Fiction, andbeing like you know this movie
should have had more.
You know, like Marcellus Wileyin it or Marcellus Wallace in it

(01:01:27):
.
You know like Ving Rhamesshould have been in the movie
more.
He's like no, he is this personthat just kind of like affects
everybody else's mood orwhatever.
Like we don't sure people,people can make a fan fiction
about like, yeah, what if?
What if there was just like amovie about these people?
Or what if there was a versionof the story that included more
of that?
Like, fine, great, that's yourlike, that's your opinion, man,
you're entitled to it.

(01:01:47):
But let's appreciate the storyfor what we got, and I thought
that the balance between thesupporting characters and who
was obviously, um, supposed tolike carry the film, which is
basically the sheriff'sdepartment, and the struggle
between the local politicians,like all of those people had, I
think, a perfect amount ofscreen time and it balanced well
, yeah, and that's reallyinteresting because I, coming

(01:02:09):
straight out of the theater Ithink I did say this to kaylee
where I was like man, I feellike austin and emma were kind
of wasted, but the more Ithought about it I'm like, oh no
, you know what?

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
they're just really, really great in their roles and
that's why I wanted to see moreof them.
And they're there because theylove the story and and really
respect Ari, right, and like.
So, like you know and againlike that, that kind of goes
into like you know, behind thescenes stuff, but like yeah just

(01:02:42):
be happy that it was them andnot because maybe if it's
someone else, maybe it doesn'twork, right?

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
Because it's not Emma Stone, the greatest actress
right now.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
Because it's not Emma Stone, the greatest actress
right now, or it's not AustinButler, one of the hottest
actors right now and who's justlike such, he's such a good
weirdo too.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
So that, like because you're absolutely right, like I
think yeah, both can be trueLike we can want more from those
characters maybe, but becauseit's them in that limited role
and not somebody who's like thethird lead on severance or
something, and it's somebody whowere actually like holy shit.
There's Austin Butler with hislike pencil mustache and his

(01:03:20):
like long hair and he's dressedin all white, looking like Jesus
, and he's kind of doing a voicelike this is perfect for a cult
leader.
Like yeah, absolutely perfect,yeah, yeah, okay, absolutely
perfect, yeah, Yep, okay.
So if you had to do, let's endon this, if there's not any more
final thoughts, or this can bea time for final thoughts

(01:03:41):
leading into, maybe like an AriAster ranking.
We only have four films,obviously, but very different in
tone from some of his others.
Where would you put this incomparison to hereditary
Midsommar and Bo's?
Afraid?

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
I have.
So Iitary Midsommar and Bo'safraid I have.
So I have Midsommar one, I havehereditary four, and then I
think Eddington and Bo is afraidare in that two and three spot,
I don't know which.
I, you know, recency bias.
I would put Eddington probablyat two because I think it's much
more funny.
But then bo is afraid.

(01:04:16):
But but bo afraid, bo is afraidis is really funny as well, but
more in like a nightmarish,like hellscape way, uh, even
though this is eddington's kindof a hellscape too, but but but
so yeah, that's kind of where Iland.

Speaker 3 (01:04:34):
I feel like I put Eddington number one for me just
more.
It is to me this one's just themost up my alley of all of his
films.
But and then for me the otherthree are kind of different
enough that they're just theirown thing to.
But that's right, I'm justgoing to use the cop out of like
, I'm not going to write theother three, the other three,

(01:04:57):
the other three are all greatfilms in their own ways and
they're.
But you think this is his, thisis the one for me, this one is
the best for me.
Like this is just, like it'sjust.
It just fits so much into thetime.
I think that the other oneskind of do like deeper dives on,
like kind of like less topicsor something, and I think to me
the history of this is like howmuch he dives into in this time
period.

Speaker 1 (01:05:10):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's a great way to put it,
because for me, midsommar willthat will always be one.
But a big part of me, if I'mbeing objective is is aware to
exactly what you were justsaying, that like, even though
they create this whole town,they go out the costumes,
everything, it's all just likemade for that film.
Like Midsommar is such a craftproduction, like down to every

(01:05:35):
little bit of detail.
So is this and it's unpacking aton.
Not that Midsommar isn'tunpacking a lot, but like he bit
off so much with this movie andfor the most part, like I, I
think he like gets it all backout there and it is so so well
done.
A part of me is like I willnever re-watch this movie more

(01:05:58):
than I re-watch Midsommar.
But I think that he might haveaccomplished more with Eddington
than he has with any othermovie.

Speaker 3 (01:06:07):
I kind of want to bring up two more scenes, partly
as a lover of podcast lovers,because I always want them to
bring up the scene that I love.
And there's two other likedetails that are so important to
me.
Number one when he, when yourealize he fucking has covid.
When he, when he's in the heartof that whole, when you realize
he gets the photo, like he getsthe, the text, and you're like,

(01:06:29):
oh my god, of course he hascovid.
That's so funny because it'sjust like it makes that whole
climax that much better, becausehe's like falling apart.
I think when he kills thehomeless guy in the bar he's has
covid, like he's just like he'shaving covid.
That's when he really starts tofall apart.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
So when he gets this swab up the nose and he's like,
I'm like I was definitelyexposed.

Speaker 3 (01:06:47):
Yeah, it was so good so I wanted to bring that up,
had to.
And then also the fact, likethe whole sequence where he
fucking frames michael the blackcop and then the black cop is
in jail like to me that was sucha commentary of like once again
a stab at the protesters, likenot even the protesters, but of
the, the way the culture hasplayed out and the way things

(01:07:09):
have.
Just like somehow the black manstill ends up in the prison
cell.
Like that to me, was like ahuge commentary and just as the
film was going crazy, I was justlike that is so brilliant and
tragic and right you're.

Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
you're introduced to this character who has obviously
been accepted by this communityas a minority.
He has a past relationship withone of the people who has been
protesting, all of these things.
He feels almost untouchable andthen the moment that it is
beneficial to to the whitepeople to use him as a scapegoat

(01:07:42):
Joaquin's character inparticular, and then his other
deputy who we see become likecompletely racist over the
course of the film.
Yeah, they jump at thatopportunity.
Yeah, great commentary.

Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
Yeah, it's insane, it's so wild is it?

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
is it even worth discussing?
Like, is this movie going to bean awards contender?
I really don't know.
I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
You don't think so no , I don't think it's gonna.
I don't think it's gonna playwith, even though the osc, you
know, and the Globes have madehuge strides.
I would be surprised if awardsbodies be just because of the,

(01:08:29):
again like the, the attackingnature of this film.
Yeah, yeah, people are fragile,I'm sorry, people are very
fragile and I I just doubtthey're going to.
They're going to try and youknow, reward this.

Speaker 1 (01:08:43):
I think I agree with you and I think it's so stupid
because a movie that attacks alot of, maybe, people, not
through necessarily the samesubject matter, but a movie that
was also like very attackingthat I can think of in recent
memory, that that was loved bythe academy, it was like poor
things, you know.
Now, poor things is done inthis like fantastical other

(01:09:06):
world and it's all about thestruggles of being a woman and I
, you know, not that disease andall these other things that
maybe eddington is touched istouching on gets brought up in
poor things.
But like poor things was asatire and something that was
like really examining verytopical issues, I feel like, but

(01:09:26):
just done in this fantasticalway and that's more easy for the
academy to swallow, right, forthem to be like.
Oh yeah, maybe this isn'treally our world because it
doesn't look like our world.
Eddington looks, feels, soundslike everything that everyone is
familiar with and that could,unfortunately, keep it out of a

(01:09:46):
lot of awards discussions, whichis too bad, because I think
this is going to be one of thedefining films.
I've already added it to mylike best of 2020s uh,
letterboxd list.
Like best of the decade.
It's my number one movie of theyear.
I don't think anything's goingto touch this for a really long
time.
I think that I think thatcritics who aren't afraid to say
that like, yeah, there's alittle bit of us and all these

(01:10:07):
characters, and that's good,that's what good art should do,
they will be the ones that haveit on their like best of list at
the end of the year.
But I don't think thattranslates um necessarily to to
awards, unfortunately I likeyour comparison to poor things.

Speaker 3 (01:10:21):
I think that's a good like place to start with, if it
could happen.
But I also think poor thingswas like a much more like well
packaged feminist film and likesome of my actually feminist
friends actually kind of didn'tlike that about poor things.
So, like I don't know, I feellike this film is not packaged
as right.
Oscars are just known for goingfor the packaged film that has
this statement like.

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
This is the side too right yeah exactly like we
didn't get anything last year ohyeah, it was so good.
That's insane yeah, so yeah,yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:54):
Unfortunately I don't think so favorite film of the
year, though for you guys so farit's in the top five.

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
What are your?

Speaker 3 (01:11:03):
other ones, max.

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
I'm always forgetting what I even watched well, let
me pull my letterbox up here andalso this this will be our
topic.

Speaker 1 (01:11:12):
We'll officially announce some of our favorites
next week.
But, um yeah, like if you werejust going to give me like a
couple of blind rankings whereit was just like eddington or
sinners, like I'm takingeddington, you know, just like a
couple of the other favoritesthat I've had so far this year,
this is leapfrogged everythingyeah, I mean it's up there.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
It's up there with sinners f1, you know, uh, which
again like those movies it's f1,just kidding.

Speaker 3 (01:11:38):
Well, those movies.

Speaker 2 (01:11:39):
I mean those movies are amazing and and much more of
a traditional fun time.

Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
F1 saying a lot about the human spirit, okay I love
that one.

Speaker 3 (01:11:51):
I couldn't f it.
That one is all about.

Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
Second chances alright, oh god don't forgiving
and forgetting.
Don't do not that's great baby,but yeah, it's definitely,
definitely in the top five loveit.

Speaker 1 (01:12:07):
Okay, so that'll do it for our Eddington episode.
Kaylee, thank you so much forjoining us today.
We hope you had a good time.

Speaker 3 (01:12:13):
Thank you for much for joining us today.
We hope you had a good time forhaving me.
I had a great time.
I was so excited to talk aboutthis.

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
Maybe this was awesome yeah, I'm really happy
you jumped on with us.
As for what's next here on thepod, we will finally be getting
to our best of lists from thefirst half of 2025.
Safe to say that there might bea few more eddington thoughts
on that pod, but I know max andI are both excited to talk about
some of our other favoritefilms from this year, anything
that you still need to get offof your watch list before you

(01:12:38):
feel really confident about yourlist next week gosh, I don't
even know.

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
Do you have any while ?

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
he's while he's browsing.
Do you have any favorites toshout out, kaylee?

Speaker 3 (01:12:49):
yeah, I was thinking, like what has come out this
year?
Um, I didn't hate jurassicworld that much, but that's not
to say that it's one of the bestor anything.
Just as a comment of like lastthings that have come out this
year.
I mean, I did give it aterrible.
I think I gave it two and ahalf stars, but I'm just saying
I enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:03):
I had a good time.

Speaker 3 (01:13:04):
Yeah, I had a good time, why not?

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
I really want to see the Ballad of Wallace Island,
which I believe is a film thatMarcus Baker brought up.
I don't know if he brought upon the episode, but he and I
have talked about it.
I'd like to see that.
That was a little indie thatcame out Earlier this year.
What else I don't know?
Megan 2.0 oh sure, I almoststopped going to the movies

(01:13:32):
Because I couldn't watch theMegan 2.0, oh sure.

Speaker 3 (01:13:33):
I almost Not going to the movies because I couldn't
watch the Megan 2.0 intro.
Again, I was losing.

Speaker 2 (01:13:38):
It.
I still haven't seen Companionand I know you know, alex and
many other people I Respect love, love, love that movie.
I have a shout out also.

Speaker 3 (01:13:49):
I need to see Companions.
I want to see that one too.
But Friendship, friendship wasso great.
I was a huge fan of Friendship.
I like just so much joy andridiculous.

Speaker 1 (01:14:02):
I still need to see Friendship as well.
I definitely need to see theShrouds, the Cronenberg film
from this year I need to, forthe fifth episode in a row, say
that I'm going to watch the UglyStepsister this week.

Speaker 3 (01:14:16):
I want to see that one.

Speaker 1 (01:14:17):
Yeah, that one's going to be good.
And then I really want to watchthis movie called the
Assessment with Elizabeth Olsen,and I want to say maybe
Christopher Abbott, and it's alittle bit ex machina-ish, it's
a little dystopian, I think.
It's like couples have to beassessed on whether or not they
can have a child or not in this,in this not too distant future,

(01:14:39):
and that's supposed to be agood little like indie sci-fi.
So definitely want to see thatfilm.
So hopefully we have time toget to all of those so we can
bring you a complete list nextweek.

Speaker 3 (01:14:49):
I have one more If I was going to be on next week,
which I'm not going to be EchoValley.
I also really want to see theJulianne Moore and Sydney
Sweeney one that's on Apple TV.
That one looks kind of good.

Speaker 1 (01:14:58):
Interesting.
I don't know about that one.

Speaker 3 (01:15:00):
Yeah, check it out.

Speaker 1 (01:15:02):
So until next time, please follow.
Excuse the Intermission onInstagram and Max and I on
Letterboxd to track what we'rewatching as well.
You can find Kaylee on therealso, I believe, and we'll talk
to you next time on ETI, wheremovies still matter.