ETI's Spring Television Episode: From White Lotus to The Studio

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Ever wondered what happens when film critics turn their analytical gaze toward television? In this captivating episode, Alex and Erica connect virtually to dissect the most compelling shows dominating our screens right now, revealing why these series have become cultural touchpoints worthy of deep exploration.

The conversation opens with a fascinating look at HBO's "The White Lotus" and how it revitalized appointment television viewing. They explore the double-edged sword of social media fan theories – how they enhance community engagement while potentially diluting major plot surprises. "Rip Chelsea, what a sweet angel" becomes both a spoiler and a moment of shared cultural understanding.

When discussing "The Last of Us," Erica brings her extensive knowledge of the source material to highlight the adaptation's bold choices. From controversial casting decisions to significant narrative departures, they examine how the show navigates the delicate balance between honoring its origins and creating something fresh for new audiences. The meticulous recreation of post-apocalyptic Seattle emerges as a particular triumph, blurring the lines between digital and physical worlds.

Apple TV+'s "The Studio" receives glowing praise as a sharp industry satire that offers viewers rare insight into Hollywood's absurd inner workings. Seth Rogen's portrayal of a studio head trapped between artistic integrity and commercial demands feels authentic precisely because it walks the line between exaggeration and painful truth. The hosts consider whether the show glamorizes or indicts an industry increasingly driven by algorithms and IP rather than original storytelling.

Throughout their conversation, Alex and Erica weave in thoughtful commentary on shows like "Your Friends and Neighbors," "Hacks," and "Black Mirror," demonstrating how television has evolved from a secondary medium to a cultural powerhouse rivaling cinema itself. Their enthusiasm is infectious, making you want to immediately add these recommendations to your watchlist.

Ready to discover your next television obsession? Listen now and join the conversation about the shows everyone will be talking about tomorrow.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
How's it?
I'm Alex McCauley.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Erica Krause.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
And this is Excuse the Intermission a discussion
show surrounding what's hot onTV.
Erica and I are back after ashort break and, as we await the
return of Max after his bigmove to Los Angeles, we will be
talking about some of thehottest new shows on television
this spring and summer.
All that on the other side ofthis break.
Hi, Erica, how are you doing?

(00:37):
Today we're testing out ourfirst virtual experience, our
first true virtual experience,the new normal, if you will.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
I feel like we're back in a pandemic, almost.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
I know it's kind of weird.
I don't love the virtual stuff,you know, but it is what it is.
I mean I am nice and comfy inmy bed right now, so it could be
worse.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah, I was going to say we've had our fair share of
technical difficulties justtrying to get this recording off
the ground, but it is nice.
I mean we're nearing what it'spast nine o'clock now on a
Wednesday.
There was kind of no rush toget in the studio or anything
today, so I do like the freedomthat it gives us in that respect
.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, I do too.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
You, uh, you even came to pick up a piece of
equipment from, uh, my worktoday, which was kind of fun.
I wish you had a chance to hangout a little bit more, but such
as the busy day goes, it wasonto the next stop for both of
us, I think.
But that was kind of fun tohave a quick little pop in.
Yeah, okay, so how you been?
We took a week off.

(01:38):
My assignment, really but Iknow you were trying to keep up
with as much television aspossible was to watch some shows
.
So how much did you dive into?
Maybe some new things?
How much of your time off wasspent, maybe, away from a screen
?
Just give us a quick update onwhat's going on.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Well, I've been busy.
So that's kind of why I've beengravitating towards shows so
much and why I've been wantingto chat about them, because I
don't normally.
I mean, I'll watch a show hereand there, you know, especially
like a really popular one.
But I've just found a lot oflittle gold mines here and there

(02:18):
and so it's been nice to justhave like an episode to watch
like at the end of my day andnot feel so like I need to get
to the movie theater this week,although I'd love to get to the
movies and I'm so glad that Iyou know I'm kind of coming down
off the high of sinners still,so might try to make it out to

(02:38):
Thunderbolts here soon,considering what I've been
reading about it, consideringwhat I've been reading about it.
But yeah, as far as shows, someof the shows that we'll be
talking about today I havealready mentioned with you, but
I did stumble upon a new one.
It's not new, it has quite afew seasons, but new to me, and
it's called Hacks on HBO, bigfan of heart, and it's great.

(03:04):
It's.
It's I, I know that it's.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
It's a won awards in the past for um, comedy
performances, um, and yeah, it'sa good one, it's, it's a fun
new watch for me I am glad thatyou brought up thunderbolts
because I I know Max has seen itas he has seen it, and this is

(03:27):
something that we looked aheadat the theatrical release
schedule and sort of thought, oh, with there being maybe sort of
a gap in movies that are goingto be relevant post Sinners, and
we've already done probably asmuch dirty work as we will do
covering the Minecraft movie,and maybe we can have another
discussion on a future pod aboutthat movie's overall financial

(03:50):
success Now that we've seen kindof where it is probably going
to plateau at, which is great,like Minecraft has done what we
expect a lot of these familyfriendly IP film franchises to
do, which is like keep movietheaters busy and in business
during some slower times at thebox office.

(04:11):
It's done great in that respect.
Thunderbolts is getting goodreviews and I do think we should
pay some attention to that,because I think that's a
surprise to both you, me, max.
I'm sure he gave it a decentrating on his letterbox, and so
I think Thunderbolts will haveits time on this podcast.
I know that people reallylisten to us for hot takes on

(04:32):
Marvel.
No, not necessarily true.
However, I do think that weshould probably touch on that.
Maybe next week, it may be assoon as next week, and so we'll
see.
But shout out to Thunderboltsfor at least not sucking, it
sounds like.
But but yeah, tv, I mean I'm,I'm right there with you, it's.

(04:52):
It's a busy time of year, asthe school year is wrapping up,
just the weather's getting nicer, people want to do things
outside.
I'm trying to play pickleballand golf and stay active, and
and so it is kind of nice tohave just like 35 minutes at the
end of your day to sit down andwatch an episode of the studio.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
So you've watched it.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
As opposed.
Well, yeah, and that's theother funny thing about watching
TV is there really is no likelogging system.
I mean, there probably is outthere somewhere.
But yeah, you haven't reallyknown what I've been watching
over the last two weeks, butI've been watching a lot and it
is nice to have, um, you know,it's almost like just catching a
quarter of a basketball game,or I, you know, speaking of
pickleball, there's a lot oftelevised pickleball now and so

(05:36):
I can just watch a match.
Like it's not the same aswatching necessarily like
serialized TV, but I am alsofinding a lot of comfort in in
just being able to kind of throwsomething on, as you might say.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
That is such a that's exactly how I've been feeling
this past week is just.
It's so nice, it feelscomforting to have a show to
look forward to and it's like Ilike last week I woke up and my
coffee and caught up on myepisode of the studio that I
didn't get to watch the nightbefore and it was just so nice
and you know the studio is aquick watch it's about.

(06:13):
You know, the episodes arereally just around 30 minutes
each.
Very, it's just like a nicelittle show.
And then I'm on with my day andI felt like I'm like OK, cool,
I'm, I'm plugged into what'shappening and the new stuff
that's coming out.
And then, you know, fridaynight I'm watching my episode of

(06:33):
your friends and neighbors, andSunday night I'm excited to
watch, uh, the last of us, andso it's it's fun to look forward
to.
I love when I do kind of missthose shows that come out like
once a week, like one episode aweek, and it does feel
comforting and, yeah, I love it.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
And I think that I think that the show that really
started that feeling for both ofus, which really is more in the
spring season I think the thirdseason of the White Lotus
premiered back in February orMarch, if I'm not mistaken,
probably early March and reallybrought back that feeling of

(07:10):
like water cooler appointmenttelevision, where you would talk
about it the next day at workor over drinks at a part at a
dinner party the next weekend orsomething like that, because
everyone watched it on Sundaynight and so that was really, I
think, kind of a shot in the armto those of us out there that

(07:34):
haven't had a TV show to watchin a while, and I definitely
include myself in that camp.
The White Lotus is somethingthat I definitely make time for
when it's on and I want to watch.
I know you feel the same way.
We want to watch it in themoment, in real time.
And then something I love abouthbo is they are so good at

(07:55):
rolling right into somethingelse.
You know whether it is like oneof their comedy shows that run
um, something like succession,something I can always remember,
like when a Game of Thronesseason would end it would maybe
be a Sunday off and then, like anew season of Curb, your
Enthusiasm would start and soyou could just roll right in to
something else, and that was thecase with the Last of Us, and

(08:17):
so I don't know if there's anymore to do.
When it comes to like putting abow on the White Lotus
conversation, I know we did apretty decent job.
You and I have having some sortof spoiler free conversations
about it, because Max was notcaught up.
But if there is anything that Ithink now we can speak freely

(08:38):
about, with the statue oflimitations kind of having
passed, most people shouldeither know what happened in
season three or at this point, Ithink that we are sort of in
the clear and maybe abstain fromany sort of um, I don't know
hatred that might come our wayfor spoiling things.
So is there anything else, uh,that you want to say about that

(08:59):
that show?

Speaker 2 (08:59):
I don't think so.
I mean I really enjoyed thethird season.
I think that you know, I thinkthe natural progression of shows
like this right is that youknow everyone's going to kind of
compare it to its predecessorand the first season is pretty
hard to be, it's.
I mean, I can still rememberthe first time I watched the
first season I had no idea whatthe show was and I watched I

(09:22):
think the whole thing in one dayshow was, and I watched I think
the whole thing in one day.
And the second season kind oflost me a little bit, although I
was still pretty locked in.
But this new season was great,I loved it.
But my something I was likereally reflecting on and just
kind of a social in a socialaspect, is that I noticed that

(09:44):
my presence on social media,just seeing so many people
trying to figure out what'sgoing to happen, and so of
course there's tons of fantheories going around and you
know, like Alex said, you knowwe are going to share some
spoilers here, so it's yourfault that if you haven't
watched it.
So sorry, not sorry, but umthat's forward three minutes or

(10:07):
something seriously.
But um, so you know at the veryend, uh, chelsea and rick die,
that those are, that's the deaththat happens.
I think that the whole scenarioof that was like maybe how it
panned out was a little shocking, but their death was not
shocking, and for me, I thinkit's just because everyone that

(10:31):
I would see.
I couldn't escape it, andthat's my fault for watching and
participating, I guess.
But it's interesting.
I want to see what people haveto say and you're excited about
the next episode, what's goingto happen.
And then all these people areplaying detective online and and
then I kind of had to like takea step back and just be like,

(10:52):
just wait and see what's goingto happen each week.
You know like, maybe that's a,you know, a problem that we've.
We've kind of faced with thisnew age of television where
we're so used to getting likethe whole season right at the
beginning and you know, you justwant to know what's going on,
especially if it's kind of.
You know, I think a lot ofpeople would say that the White

(11:13):
Lotus maybe drags a little bit,but personally I love it and I
think I don't know if we said iton here or if I just was having
this conversation with a friend, but the white Lotus is a show
for people who love gossip andwho love the tea, and there's a
lot of just human interactionand like dynamic, and I
personally think that'sfascinating.

(11:34):
I love watching that kind ofstuff.
Um, it's not everybody's cup oftea, however, um, but I think,
with just people trying tofigure out the show ahead of
time, there was a lot of reallyaccurate fan theories that I had
seen, especially regardingChelsea and Rick, especially
regarding Chelsea's dying.

(11:56):
So I can't say that I wastotally surprised by the way
that it ended.
I was a little surprised thatrick kind of did what he did
with, you know, to his um, tohis dad, that we found out which
again another spoiler that fanshad guessed ahead of time.
So but overall I I loved theshow.

(12:17):
I thought it was great, somereally standout performances.
Cannot wait to see what mikewhite does in the future.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
I think that's a very fair criticism Of social media
and the way that people Iwouldn't even really call it
review, but the way that peoplejust analyze shows and movies to
a different extent, I feel like.
But you're absolutely right,because even in some of the

(12:46):
quote unquote quieter episodeswhere maybe they're not might
not be as much happening, asmuch action as people may want,
mike white in the productionteam and the set design and
everyone is so good at leavinglittle breadcrumbs for you to
follow around.
And I was getting fed a verysimilar type of content on my

(13:14):
algorithm where it would be likethis week's White Lotus episode
, broken down by a Thai personto explain all the things that
you might not know about, allthe little subtleties that
people have added.
You know, hints at Thai culture, hints at Thai folklore, things
that would tie into then thecharacters in their arcs and

(13:36):
really start to give people anidea of where things were going.
And so I absolutely agree.
You know just like how, when youknow the, the, the brat pack of
filmmakers from the 70s likeScorsese and De Palma and Paul
Schrader and all these differentguys, even Steven Spielberg to

(13:58):
a different degree, when theywere all coming up, they never
imagined that there would be theinternet and there would be fan
theories based on whichSpielberg movie is really about
his life, you know which DePalma movie is unpacking
Hitchcockian, you know subtextand all these different things
where now we can just spendhours and hours doing deep dives

(14:21):
on Reddit or reading differentarticles.
Yes, there's always been likefilm literature, but that was
something that you had to reallygo out and and search for and
then find your niche people inreal life to have these
conversations with, and thingsweren't just so accessible like
they are now.
And so, whether it is like theability to go back and almost

(14:42):
like psychoanalyze differentmovies from the seventies,
eighties and 90s, pre-internet,or now, just in this age of
television, where things arefrom reality, right From reality
TV shows and people talkingabout love on the spectrum or
love is blind, or all thesedifferent shows that people want
to sit down and basicallycreate their own career over

(15:02):
just talking about, create theirown career over just talking
about or if it is like narrativetelevision and everyone trying
to guess what's going to happenweek after week, it does feel
like it is all this extrashoulder content that is like
kind of diluting, just the funthat should be had when you are
strapped in and you're investedweek after week.

(15:22):
So I totally, totally agreewith you.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah, it's so fun to watch those videos and to hear
what people are saying because-.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
It is.
That's the tough part.
Like it is fun to engage.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Exactly.
It's just the same as like ifyou're getting together with
your friends and talking aboutwhat happened last week on the
White Lotus.
You know, and I think, becausethis is such a and I think
because this is such a mysterytype of thriller drama, that
there, like you said, there areso many breadcrumbs throughout

(15:55):
every episode and you're kind ofwondering what is going to
happen.
And even the first episodestarts off by saying like there
is a shooting.
You know, something happenedand, based off of previous
seasons, we do know to expectsome kind of drama, right.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
And that it's going to be tied to like a main player
.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
Exactly and somebody who you just might not like.
It would be totally like justnot someone you maybe really
expect.
And because I think withChelsea now, I feel like her,
like just her development overthe season, and there was a lot

(16:41):
of little comments kind ofalluding to something bad
happening to her, especiallywhen she was telling Rick that
bad things come in threes andshe had, you know, the shooting
at the little store or therobbery, and then the snake bite
and then and then obviously herunfortunate death.
Rip, chelsea, what a sweetangel.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
RIP Chelsea.
What a sweet angel.
Yeah, and just you know, amyLiu has done incredible work,
really like becoming a A-listcelebrity off of that show, and
that's something I do also loveabout TV.
Not that we can't see thathappen in movies we see it
happen in movies a lot butoftentimes someone will get big
on television and then thatleads to like their film
breakout and now it can justhappen on tv.
And I, you know amy lou hasbeen working for a while before

(17:32):
the white lotus, but still thisis like you know, she was just
at the met gala and so it's likehow you can go from being an
unknown to walking the redcarpet of an event such as.
That is pretty spectacular, andshe has television to thank for
that.
So let's use this as anopportunity to not only pivot to
the next hbo show, but alsoanother show that has had its

(17:56):
fair share of online analysisthe last of us now.
This is obviously because thereis much like how game of
thrones started.
This is obviously because thereis much like how Game of
Thrones started out.
There is a blueprint, there ismaterial previously provided
from a different medium In thiscase it's a video game.
So fans of the game, much likehow fans of the books and Game

(18:19):
of Thrones, they knew what toexpect to a certain degree when
it came to the show, what toexpect to a certain degree when
it came to the show.
And so with this new season ofthe Last of Us, I think you are
perfect to touch on how they arecombining the different
storylines from the differentgames, because I think we need
sort of like a couple of broadstrokes here to start our

(18:42):
painting, if you will, as webegin this Last, this last of us
, deep dive, um, because now,all of a sudden, this, this show
, is really cooking with gas andthere are some real stakes
involved that I think maybeweren't there in season one and
and also by saying that I'msaying that maybe aren't there

(19:04):
in the first volume of the videogames, or however you want to
categorize those.
So the floor is yours here totalk about how the Last of Us is
being adapted.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, this is honestly the show is kind of why
I wanted to do this episode,because of just so much drama
with the show and and even withthe first season too.
You know, I will be totallyhonest, I did not finish
watching the first seasonbecause it's it was like okay.

(19:35):
So we'll first to preface thisconversation, because this is
such a hot topic, like I'm goingto.
I'm just going to be totallyhonest about how I feel about
the casting and all that kind ofstuff, because that is one of
the biggest concerns and justbiggest annoyances that people
have also major, major spoileralerts from like just up until

(19:57):
what we've just recently watched.
So I think there's what fourepisodes out now.
Um, and I won't spoil too muchof the game either, because I
have played the game severaltimes.
I know, alex, you haven'tplayed the game right, Okay.
So the Last of Us iscontroversial in the sense that

(20:20):
the casting, from what Iunderstand, understand, is a
very big um.
It's just cause for concern forthe show because of Bella
Ramsey playing Ellie.
Um, bella Ramsey not, and Ithink you know a lot of people.
The criticism is that um, belladoes not look a lot like Ellie

(20:45):
in the first place.
But also I don't think thatthey are doing a great job at
embodying her, embodying Ellie,and especially I'm noticing that
in this new season.
But with that, the castingaside, there's a well.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
Well, can you tell us a little bit more about that?
So how is ellie portrayed inthe video games versus how bella
is portraying her in the show?

Speaker 2 (21:12):
so in the second game , ellie.
So there's a five-year agedifference in between the first
game.
In the second game ellie isolder, she is just a lot more
hardened and from my perspectiveof her she's just pretty cool.
You know she's, she's a badass,she's definitely a hothead, but

(21:35):
she is pretty like like herdemeanor is just very I don't
really know.
I just feel like Bella'sportraying her as just a lot
more animated.
Not only does she not sound likeher, it takes me out of it,

(21:56):
unfortunately.
I'm not trying to like totallynitpick it, but there is just
this like immaturity that isbeing portrayed as Bella,
whereas Ellie in the game feelslike I'm not saying she's you
know this grown woman by anymeans, but she's definitely a

(22:17):
lot more level headed in thesecond game and I mean that's
hard to say after considering,like, what happens in the
beginning of the game, but um,with her relationship with dina
is a big thing.
Um, so you travel with dinathroughout the game, through
most of the game and um, youknow, I think recently, just

(22:38):
this most recent episode betweenher and dina's relationship
they're really dropping.
They're really changing thingsand dropping the ball on that,
which is very strange.
Yeah, so basically in the game.
So right now in the show we'veseen Dina and Ellie get together

(22:59):
at the theater.
That does not happen in thegame.
That actually happened when wesaw in the third episode where
the TV version has Ellie andJesse in like a weed room.
There's a bunch of weedeverywhere.
They're kind of out on a run orsomething like that, or maybe
that was the second episode.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
They're being held up during the snowstorm, like the
whiteout.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
So that's what the second episode right, because
it's before.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
Second episode.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
So actually that is Dina and Ellie in the game and
there's a very, very tendermoment between the two of them
where that is actually when theyhook up for the first time.
The conversation that is heldin the in the tent in the third
episode actually happens in the,the weed room.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
Um in the game are they talking about their moment
that they have at the like newyear's eve party?

Speaker 2 (23:59):
they're rating the kiss okay and it is.
You can watch a side by side ofit online, actually, of um, the
game versus the show, andyou'll see what I mean when
ellie's character is just a lotmore smooth with, like, the way
she's talking to dina.
Dina, in my, you know, opinionof her in the game, is this very

(24:21):
grounded, nurturing presencefor ellie.
She is kind of a ride or die atthis point and they're already
dating, so they're already likeestablished that.
But then, you know, apparentlyin the tent there was, you know,
dina kind of alluded that shewas back with Jesse, um, which
never happens in the game.
I mean, her and Jesse weretogether, but they don't even

(24:44):
touch on that really.
So I think a lot of people arepretty upset and I'm emphasizing
their relationship a lotbecause it is such a huge part
of the game and you know, dinais with you the majority of, is
with Ellie the majority of thetime, and their relationship and
how it develops is veryimportant to ellie's evolution

(25:09):
as well, um, and so I thinkpeople are having kind of a hard
time with just how they'reportraying that and also some of
the weird dialogue choices fromthis past episode when dina
reveals that she's pregnant.
Um, in the game that is verymuch a conversation that happens
that ellie is not happy about.

(25:31):
She actually even calls dina aburden, um, whereas in this last
episode, um, ellie's responsewas I'm gonna be a dad and and
then they immediately hook up,which is very odd, definitely
not how that happened in thegame.
I I can't obviously speak forthe showrunners and neil

(25:52):
druckman and like why they'redeciding to make these changes.
There's a lot that's I mean.
I I could keep going becauseyou know um, joel's death, that
is it.
That is definitely happens inthe game very early on.
It's absolutely shocking.
Way harder to watch ontelevision, I will say Even I

(26:17):
saw it coming and I still justit was a rough watch.
Tommy, however, is with Joel inthat moment and not Dina.
It is Tommy that witnessesJoel's death, which is a huge.
That the, the, the horde thattakes over Jackson, does not

(26:38):
happen in the game.
I I do.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
So does does in the game.
I imagine Ellie still witnessesJoel's death, correct?

Speaker 2 (26:49):
So Ellie and Dina are out on their run and that's how
they come across the situation,with Abby in the cabin and Joel
and all that, and Tommy isthere with witnessing and it is
Tommy and Joel who are the oneswho saved Abby from that.

(27:11):
That uh horde that happens.
It's a really intense moment.
I thought they did an amazingjob in the show, um, capturing
that, especially the fence scenewhere she's crawling through
the fence.
That is exactly you have toplay that, you actually you.
You play that, you, actuallyyou.
You play abby in the game.
Um, which is very controversialat first.

(27:32):
Um, and so that whole scene, Ithink I know people are really
struggling with the fact thattommy was not present and and
dina was instead.
I know that there's reasoningfor it, they, but you know, in
the game Tommy storms off and hegoes after Abby first.

(27:54):
So in the show we've only seenDina and Ellie's journey to find
Abby.
Well, they're in the game.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
They are tracking Tommy technically, they are
tracking Tommy technically andin the show, tommy, who is
Joel's brother, is approachingthe situation, yes, with the

(28:24):
response where he's basicallygoing off of what the town, what
the homestead of Jackson wantsto do versus what his anger and
his rage is telling him to do.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
Exactly, I was talking to my friend about this
the other day, because that wasa huge thing, a big change that
they made.
And personally, personally, Idon't know yet how much of an
effect that's really going tohave, because you, you don't
ever really you don't ever playtommy and you don't really

(28:55):
interact with him a whole lot inthe second game.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
so, um, however, the dynamic in seattle would
definitely be different in theshows if dina, ellie and tommy
were all there and now.
Maybe that's not to say thatTommy still won't end up in
Seattle at some point.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
I think that he will, because you know Tommy isn't
with you when you're playing, atall Like there's times where
you might meet up with him, or Ithink you know it's very
minimal, like Tommy's presencein Seattle in the game is not,
it's just kind of assumed.
You know, because we knowtracking on like his trail that

(29:33):
he's leading of death and andyou know just his path, you can
tell like OK, that Tommyobviously was here, we're not
far behind him or whatever'shappening.
We're not really with him verymuch so, if at all actually
whatever's happening, we're notreally with him very much so, um
, if at all, actually.
So it doesn't really matterthat part, but I do find that it
was a little interestingdynamic shift and the the change

(29:55):
that the showrunners decided tokind of add more substance.
And I think I was you know, Iwas looking at or listening to
an interview with neilmann, thecreator of the Last of Us.
He was kind of alluding to thefact that you know, obviously
with television and adaptingfrom a video game, you're able

(30:17):
to do so much more and make thestory a lot deeper and a little
bit more complex, which is why Ithink they decided to have the
horde come and attack jackson.
Um.
However, how necessary was that?

Speaker 1 (30:35):
I honestly don't really know um I I mean honestly
, I think it was a chance forhbo to send one of their golden
children out there and markmulloyd, who is a phenomenal
director of like epic action tvepisodes.
He's he's uh the same directorthat did the battle of the
bastards in game of thrones andand a few other of like the big

(30:59):
sort of like single play, singlebattle.
Um episodes of got were a lotof mark mulloy uh directed
episodes, and so as soon as Isaw his name on the credits for
for that episode, I was like, oh, this is okay.
I think I understand where theanticipation and all the hype
that I've heard around thisepisode is going.

(31:20):
Like all these um precautionsthat the that the folks in the
town of Jackson are taking,cautions that the folks in the
town of Jackson are taking,they're going to be all for
nothing because here comesbasically, like your White
Walkers, you know, like herecomes a big battle episode.
So I you know, to hear that itwas done differently from the

(31:40):
video games is interesting.
I think it was just then achance for them to kind of flex,
not only like the bottom lineand the budget that they're
working with this season, whichis obviously pretty great um,
but I mean, that was the most.
What are we calling thesethings?
What are they?

Speaker 2 (31:55):
uh the like a limited clickers oh the clickers.
Is that what we call them?

Speaker 1 (32:00):
yeah, well, there's I feel like every and like every
monster in any show.
I want what?
What is it?

Speaker 2 (32:05):
well, there's a, there's a it.
There's a few of them.
They start off as runners.
They turn into clickers, whichis where they have the mushrooms
growing out.
Then you get into the bloaters.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
The bloaters are wild .

Speaker 2 (32:25):
Yeah, the bloaters are wild, the one that was after
Tommy in the second.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
Yeah, what's that called?

Speaker 2 (32:30):
I can't remember.
I kept wanting to say, I keptwanting to say a gusher, but
that is so, but there's, there'slike stages of them, and then,
yeah, so, but the clickers arethe big, you know, that's like
kind of one of the main ones,but what was attacking the town
was runners.
And then of course there wassome of the other, more advanced

(32:52):
, um, uh, like what would youeven call those?
Just, I don't even knowMushroom people?

Speaker 1 (33:02):
Yeah, I don't even know, Um, yeah, but but yeah.
So I think that that'sdefinitely why you know, and
maybe it to be this Ned Starktype of arc for Joel and so much

(33:33):
, like how Sean Bean, I think,helped bring a lot of people
into Game of Thrones season one,and then, of course, you kill
him off in a very dramaticmoment at the end of that season
.
Taking Pedro Pascal out of thisseason is a very dramatic
moment at the end of that season.
Taking Pedro Pascal out of thisseason is a very gutsy move and
I have to respect it.
And that's where this season,um, coming from someone who

(33:57):
hasn't played the games, thisseason is really captivating me,
because I do feel like are nowreal stakes and I'm I'm giving
myself over to a show that ishas has proven to be
unpredictable to someone whohasn't played the games.
Now, of course, if you play thegames, or even if you watch the

(34:19):
wrong TikTok, you're going toknow that Joel dies in episode
two.
I didn't know where it wasgoing and I tried to stay away
from any sort of spoilers.
And so that was great for me.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
I want to know what your reaction was to that.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
I mean, my reaction was much like it was with Game
of Thrones, having not readthose books, where I'm like, oh
my gosh, they just killed offPedro Pascal.
What have they done to my boy,aside from Bella, really the
main character?
But that's what I was askingfor all of season one and I can

(34:57):
only be my feelings and mysuspension of disbelief.
My investment can only be takenso far.
Belief, my investment can onlybe taken so far and I can only
be manipulated so much as.
As far as, like in season one,this is how I felt.
Episode after episode, joel andellie break up.
If you will, or they getseparated and it's like will

(35:20):
they or won't they get backtogether?
Of course they will.
Like that's just how I feltafter the end of every single
episode.
And in season one was, ofcourse they're gonna be okay.
Oh my gosh, ellie's in all thisdanger.
Will joel save her?
Of course, yeah, even likejoel's gonna be in some trouble.
Will ellie throw her arm out infront, like we've seen her do
with dina now, already this year, and like, take a bite because

(35:43):
she is immune?
Like, yes, she will.
That's that's just how I felt,episode after episode of season
one and I'm.
I I'm right there with youwhere it.
I kind of had to drag myselfacross the finish line when it
came to season one, whereas thisthis season now and we can
maybe kind of talk about theother household names and faces

(36:08):
that they are sort of handingthis this second season over to,
aside from Bella Ramsey, butlike now introducing this
Jeffrey Wright character, Ithink becomes really interesting
, because here's someone where Idon't know what kind of
investment I'm supposed to makein this character Caitlin Deaver
, playing the Abby role andbasically our main antagonist,

(36:33):
and who they're not reallygiving a lot of camera time to
yet.
I like that because they'rekeeping her in the dark.
We don't know.
You know where she stands nowand you know and when I say we,
I mean those of us who haven'tplayed the video games and don't
know where this season's goinglike.
I don't know where she stands inthe wolf hierarchy.
Is she above someone likejeffrey right?

(36:54):
Is she below someone likejeffrey right?
So there's so much you know.
Like the world has already beenbuilt.
Season one did do a good job ofof world building, I think, in
talking about the politicalclimate and the environmental
climate and where differentparts of the country have sort
of landed in this apocalypsesituation.

(37:16):
So now we really just get totake a deep dive into, like,
what's going on here in Seattle.
Are we going to get revenge forJoel?
And how?
How this all plays out is suchan unknown, it's such a mystery
to me.
Like I don't know what's goingto happen, episode after episode
.
So I'm like I'm all the wayback in.

(37:36):
In that sense.
Now you might know a little bitmore about the Jeffrey Wright
character and the Caitlin Deavercharacter.
So again, maybe only speakingup until what we've seen four
episodes in, but how have youliked their presence in the show
so far?

Speaker 2 (37:53):
So Jeffrey Wright as Isaac I thought was really
exciting.
We don't, I don't even really.
I'm like trying to think in thegame.
I'm like, do we even see Isaac?
Isaac is talked about quite abit, but we don't I don't know
that we really see a lot of him.
So I'll leave it at that and wecan touch back on this later,

(38:16):
if you know, if I mean, if weever do another episode like
this or you and I personally cantalk, but just yeah, I think
that Jeffrey Wright as Isaac isgreat.
I loved his scene.
It was, I mean, very intense,very much.
You know, we do see a little bitof that in the game and then

(38:38):
with Abby.
So I think it's important totalk about Abby here for a
second, because Abby is a hugepart of the game.
Because Abby is a huge part ofthe game and, like I said, you
do play her and all I will.
I, yeah, I can't even say that.
So Abby in the game is she hasdedicated her life to finding

(39:02):
Joel.
She has ever since her father'sdeath.
That is not revealed untillater in the game, whereas her
motives for killing Joel wereimmediately revealed.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
I do understand the reason Was that, yeah, that was
like the first scene of thisseason, wasn't it?
And that was a real tablesetter.
That that lets you know, as theaudience member, like this is
the number one thing you need tobe paying attention to this
season my theory for that isthat there was so much rage with

(39:33):
joel's death in the first placewith the games.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
Um, the, the girl who played ellie or played abby in
the games because it's motioncapture um, she had death
threats sent to her and herfamily um create after the game
came out.
Um, people just really need tolike go touch grass at the end
of the day.
But like so I, there was a lotof like uproar with that from

(40:04):
what I heard, and I didn'trealize this until recently and
until like the last year or so.
But you know, when you play thegame it's absolutely shocking.
You have no idea that that'sgoing to happen.
You're like, who is this girl?
Why is she here?
Why did she just kill Joel?
Like you're kidding me and thenyou're going to make me play
her, you're going to make meplay this character that just

(40:25):
did that.
I'm like you're absolutely not,and so I know a lot of people
had stopped playing the game fora while before they picked back
up again.
Um, so, with the game, I, Ireally do believe that if they
hadn't revealed, um, abby'smotive in the beginning, that
they would have lost a lot ofviewers, kind of like.

(40:46):
I'm seeing a lot of peoplecompare this to like when glenn
died in the walking, that theywould have lost a lot of viewers
, kind of like.
I'm seeing a lot of peoplecompare this to like when glenn
died in the walking dead.
You know this beloved characterwho just did not deserve to die
.
Um, I, I mean not that Ibelieve that joel deserved to
die, but it's not like abbydidn't have a reason.
You know, um, but in the gameyou are not.

(41:06):
They do not tell you that untillater, when you are having a
flashback, um, going into thehospital, and then you realize
what happened.
You're like, oh my godinteresting I really wish that
they would have stuck with that,because it's just way more
exciting and like just anotherthat's a great reveal, yeah and
twist, but I really I do reallywonder if it was because they

(41:32):
knew that there was going to beso much upset about joel dying
and this like brutal death, thesecond episode in that it was
going to make ratings tank, andso I think that they had to give
abby a motive like right away.
So you're like hey, hey, hey,wait, this is why she did it,
you know, and not that it like Imean not that it justifies it

(41:55):
necessarily, but it's just moreso like people could understand.
But I'm like, no, like youshould have, it would have been
way cooler to know that later on.
Like, trust your audience tostick with you, but well, and
now it.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
What it gives us also is this kind of like I don't
know, like a scar mufasa kind oflike arc for both, for both the
abby character and the elliecharacter, where, like, abby is
on her own revenge quest and,because of what she's gone
through and what she feels shehas to do on her revenge quest,

(42:30):
it has set ellie off on hers andand so you have these two.
You know, one is supposed to begood, one is supposed to be
evil in our eyes, but it's like,how different are they really?

Speaker 2 (42:41):
of course, right so another big, you know, cause for
concern is the casting decisionfor Abby.
I personally think that CaitlinDevers is killing it as her.
I think she sounds just likeAbby.
Physically she does not.
She looks like her, but minusthe physique.

(43:03):
Abby in the game is this she isripped, she's got broad
shoulders, she's got big arms.
She, like I said, she has spentthe last five years training in
military training and she's awolf and she's a wolf and she is
here to find joel.

(43:24):
she has dedicated her life tofinding joel and and and it
shows, you know, she is a crazybitch, you know, and it's.
It is an interesting choice tohave a very small, petite
actress playing a character whois very famously supposed to be

(43:46):
like, pretty built, that's like,and at first I was.
You know, I've been talkingwith my friend about this a lot,
because I go back and forth,because I'm like, okay, I would
rather see a really greatperformance than her to look
exactly like her.
But the thing is is that hermuscles and her physique is so
much a part of who she is and abig part of her character, and

(44:10):
so I think they did drop theball a little bit on that.
But from what I have seen fromCaitlin, I'm really happy for
her.
I think that I really love heras an actress number one and I
think seeing her in this role isexciting.
Knowing the evolution of abbyand what we see throughout the

(44:34):
game, um, the, the rest of thegame and I without spoiling
anything is just an incredibledive into what revenge and grief
can do to people.
It's incredibly emotional.
I mean, I'm not a gamer by anymeans, but this game changed my

(44:57):
life.
I mean truly.
I think that it's just anincredible look at the evolution
of father-daughterrelationships, um, what one will
do to combat grief, um, and,and there's just so much more
layers to this game.
I think that than like peoplerealize, and it's a cinematic

(45:22):
experience in itself.
Um, the game and so I know youknow there's it's exciting to
watch it all unfold on the show,but I know that there are
there's going to be obviouscritiques, no matter what you do
, when you add, adapt fromsomething, but, um, I think,

(45:42):
from what?
Like, all, like what we'reseeing so far, I'm really I'm,
I'm pretty sad for it, right,like I'm not, I don't have a lot
that I'm upset about really, soI don't know.
I'm excited to see Abby'sevolution more unfold in this
way.
I'm excited to see our audienceexperience Abby more because I,

(46:07):
she's a, she's a really dynamic, she's an interesting character
.
We will see more of her.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
Well, you certainly had me excited to see more.
I'm I'm also just I'm happythat Seattle's getting a lot of
love and a lot of attention.
It's really cool.
There was even you, you know,as dina and ellie are on their
way to seattle, they they pass ahighway sign that says like the
mileage until seattle.

(46:36):
Tacoma is on that sign and gosh, it's in the game.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
It's incredible the way that they transformed
seattle in the game and you know, even just I recently replay in
the game and you know, evenjust I recently replayed the
game a few months ago and I wasup in Seattle like a month later
and I was driving by thecourthouse.
The courthouse is a big part ofthe game and I'm just like
that's so crazy, that's likefrom the last of us.

(47:03):
It's just it's so cool.
In game you explore you.
There you have the opportunity,like in this last episode, that
we saw them get into seattleand like and they're in in
capitol hill they're in capitolhill and they're walking around.
You're walking around like onthe like the old interstate in
the show and you in the game youcan really explore that area

(47:27):
and like go into all theselittle stores and shops and
there's like a coffee shop thatyou can go into and like the
record store that we saw, whichI thought that they did that
scene beautifully.
By the way, when Ellie sings,take on me, that is a direct
scene from the game.
It's incredibly emotional, um,so very well done.

(47:52):
I think this last episode wasvery well done, just in general.
Um, but yeah, it's, it's so funto play when you play in the
game and you see the, just allthe signs, and you're like that
is so crazy because Cause that'sactually what Seattle looks
like, but overrun as if it waspost-apocalyptic.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
So it's very cool, that's very neat, okay, so let's
, let's also spend a little bitof time.
I'll let you kind of go for,like a rapid fire, if you want
to, at the end of of some of theother shows, but the other one
that I really sat down andwatched in preparation for this
episode to have a goodconversation with you about is

(48:34):
the Studio, the new comedysatire of Hollywood, which is on
Apple TV and it is beingbrought to us by Seth Rogen and
Evan Goldberg, along with a fewother folks.
It stars Seth Gold, us by SethRogen and Evan Goldberg, along
with a few other folks.
It stars Seth Rogen as SethRogen and then Evan Goldberg,

(48:55):
but it stars Seth Rogen as thenewly hired head of a studio,
continental Studios, which I'mwondering if that's supposed to
be a stand-in for some otherstudio.
I don't know.
I'm sure if we got into thestudio TikTok algorithm, there'd
be people breaking it down forus, but it's one of these

(49:19):
peek-behind-the-curtain kind ofshows, much like what we've seen
with something like Entourage.
I think that is, I'm sure, beingmade as a huge comparison out
there right now, and so I don'tknow In this day and age, in
2025, going back even just 15years, when something like
Entourage was really popular.

(49:39):
The industry has changed somuch and so I know you've never
watched Entourage Me having seenboth shows and then also, just
you know, kind of like payingattention to other um, other
satirical content that has comeout, um, and almost these like
indictments of of how goofy andhow silly Hollywood truly is at

(50:03):
its core.
How do you think this show,what kind of job do you think
this show is doing at, atexposing that?
I mean, maybe that's like tooheavy of a question.
Like let's start with just like, do you like the show or you
having fun watching it, I guess,but what I want to get to is
like, is this show ultimatelylike effective in in what its
mission is?
You think I don't know a lot tounpack with this show for?

Speaker 2 (50:26):
me?
I well, first of all, this ismy favorite show right now.
I was so pleased to hear thatyesterday they announced that a
second season is officiallyhappening.
Um, I think that this is andthis is probably I am absolutely
biased, being such a film nerdand somebody who has spent a lot

(50:48):
of my life I, like you know,dreaming of working in the
industry.
I think, watching this show,it's easy for me to say, like
watch, you have to watch this,it's so good.
But I am realizing there is alot of, like you know, hollywood
inside stuff that is maybe notnearly as interesting as other
like to other people.

(51:09):
I'm loving it.
I think it is.
Not only is it just so likefascinating, because I do
believe they are doing a reallygreat job at portraying what
Hollywood might really be like,but I'm also just enjoying the
performances.
It's just, you know, seth I,seth Rogen, has held my hand

(51:32):
through my adolescence, right?
I mean, we grew up with all ofhis movies in high school, post
high school and he's a he'salways a favorite of mine.
His humor is just right up myalley him and Evan's humor and
writing all that.
But you know, I'm just I'mloving the characters.

(51:53):
I'm loving just the.
I love the setup because youknow, if you haven't watched the
show, it's every episode istotally different than the next.
They just recently have wecircled back from an idea that
was mentioned very early on inthe season, but for the most

(52:13):
part, every episode is like adifferent issue.
Um, they're.
They're like we've talked aboutbefore, they're 30 minute
episodes pretty much, and reallywe are just following Seth and
his team just kind of tacklelike a new studio issue each
episode.
And I love that format.

(52:33):
It's just fun and it's justit's an easy watch and as is it
effective, I think so.
I mean, I think a lot of thestuff that they are talking
about each episode there's a lotof like actual um things.
I mean, you know, aside fromour main cast, everybody plays

(52:54):
themselves um you know, which isfun to see, where you know
every episode.
You know nick stoller was justin last week's episode and nick
stoller is, you know, he is thedirector of of neighbors and um,
god, what else, and forgettingsarah marshall and all those
movies.
You know he's a very famouscomedian, or comedic director,

(53:16):
slash writer, who has workedwith seth rogan before, um, and
so it's, it's nice to.
There's just all these likequote, quote, unquote cameos, I
guess in each episode, which I'mreally interested in, and I
think that a lot of the stuffthat they're touching on is

(53:37):
actually is they're probably nottoo far off from like what's
you know what Hollywood wasreally like what's.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
You know what hollywood was really like?
Yeah, I mean, I think about theepisode I think it's either the
second or the third episode butthe one where seth, as the
studio head, really wants to gobe present, um, on sarah
paulie's film set because she'sshooting like a one-er, so like
a one continuous shot, and hekeeps saying that like this
going to be this movie'sCopacabana scene from, like good

(54:11):
fellas, and to say that we werethere is going to be so cool.
So he and Ike Barinholtz, likehe's dragging him along with him
, he's like we got to be there,we got to be there.
And then so much of whathappens in that episode like
it's it's very cringe, it's verycringe on purpose and it
becomes like hard to watch at acertain point because Seth just
can't get out of his own way andI have to imagine that either

(54:49):
him and just his writing roomteam were pulling from lived
experiences and or it could bein both.
You know, like Sarah Pauly issaying I've had this happen to
me on the set before.
Greta Lee is saying I've hadthis on a set before, where I
have to stop a take because Ican hear somebody chewing or
talking or whispering or doingwhatever, like offset For those
peek behind the curtain kind ofmoments where you know it's not
like we're ever going to get.

(55:10):
You know, probably bonus contentor extra set or dealt with a
studio head that that talked toyou this way or wanted to green
light a project like this oversomething, um, you know, maybe

(55:38):
more artistic or whatever thecase may be, because that's
really Seth's whole thing, rightIs, he's the head of the studio
now and the only person who hereally has to answer to is the
Bryan Cranston character who isjust bottom line oriented, just
money, money, money.
He wants to make a Kool-Aidmovie because he thinks it can
be the next Barbie movie.
Seth Rogen's character just hewants to work with Martin

(56:01):
Scorsese, he wants to make thenext great art house film that
wins 10 Oscars but it is alsofinancially successful, and so
so much of it feels like to me.
So much of the show feels likeit's Seth Rogen kind of like
getting a chance to really tellHollywood, and maybe more so
because I'm sure his innercircle and people in the

(56:23):
business know what kind of guySeth Rogen is at this point.
But it's really Seth Rogenhaving an opportunity to tell, I
think the public at large, thekind of person that he is and
probably the kind of person thata lot of people in Hollywood
really are, and like, look, thisis why we can't do all the fun
stuff that that you want us tobe doing anymore.

(56:46):
It's because we have to do thesong and dance, we have to sit
through excruciating meetings,we have to watch, you know, a
movie like the Ron Howardepisodes I thought was again
like cringe but also reallyfunny, because it's like this is
what happens when you guysthink, oh, a director should

(57:07):
just always have final cut.
Like, give directors final cut,dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.
And then they're like we had tosit there four and a half hours
or whatever it is, you know, um, so it's definitely satirical,
it's definitely poking fun at alot of stuff, but then that's
where, again, like and I can'twait to get Max's take on this
you know this is the one show inparticular that I know he is
also plugged into and watchinghabitually, week after week, you

(57:33):
know, because part of it islike it is glamorizing the
industry, part of it is a hugeindictment, I think, on the
industry, and so how much youknow how much of that do you
want to buy into?
And say so?
How much?
You know, how much of that doyou want to buy into and say
this is for the cameras versusthis is really what's happening?

(57:53):
And we are all kind of fuckedbecause what's going to be made
next is the Kool-Aid man movieversus Martin Scorsese's
Jonestown movie.
So I don't know, it's, it's.
It is pretty fascinating, it itis, I think, saying probably
more than a show like entouragewas saying back in, like the

(58:16):
early two thousands, whereas Iwas much more about just like
look what the right peoplearound you, you can make
anything happen.
Basically, um, but I do thinkthat there still are a lot of
comparisons to be made betweenthe two shows, just because of
their setting and much like howyou said, everybody outside of

(58:38):
Seth Rogen's character isplaying themselves.
That's exactly how entouragewas handled.
So so, yeah, I think I thinkit's good when there's a show
like this, that that gets peopleengaged in why movies in
particular and it's alwaysironic when you know a tv show
kind of shows us why movies aremade and why studios are ran the

(59:03):
way that they are, um, and andso, yeah, I don't know it's.
It caught me by surprise, Iwill say that, and and it's
holding my interest longer thanI expected it to.
After episode one.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
There's a lot of little nods to just even just
stuff that we've talked about.
You know, the three of ustogether, you know, on here like
like I'm.
You know, there's one episodewhere, um, like Seth makes a

(59:37):
comment about, you know,straight to streamers, movies
and stuff.
And you know, and they'rereally like I mean, just
recently, in one of the episodeshe was just really highlighting
the importance of getting tothe movie theater and I think
that they're that's why I'm likeI feel like this is a very
authentic show because there'sreal like you can tell they're
like, they're making light ofthis.

(59:58):
But it's also, at the same time, like, hey, like you know, matt
Remick, which is Seth SethRogen's character, matt, is
extremely passionate about film.
Rogan's character, matt, isextremely passionate about film.
You know he is, he is a filmlover and he was given this job,
um, and, and he thinks, and hewants to really do well with

(01:00:22):
this job.
But you know, as in, you know,as is hollywood, things are
about it's money first, really,it's really what's going to be
most successful at the boxoffice, and I that's a huge
theme throughout every episodethat we see is him trying to
save his career, like you know,make sure, like his, his career
is on lockdown, but also that heis being true to his like, like

(01:00:47):
genuine love for for the game,you know, I mean, he loves
movies and I think that, um, youknow, just lots of little
remarks, that's kind of.
That's why I, I feel like thisis like the really like outing
hollywood in this, in the show,and I, I love it.

(01:01:09):
I think it's fun to watch and Ithink it's fun to see these
like, to see like these bigactors acknowledge these things
that maybe, like fans canobviously see too.
You know where we're like.
We want more original content.
You know we don't want to seethis like, you know, just like

(01:01:29):
remake after remake or whateverit is.
We want to see original ideasand it's nice, it's like.
It's like I feel like so muchof like what we've talked about
and what I feel has just it'slike being shown in this show,
you know, and I'm like, ok, soit's not just me that feels like
this.
This is like, I mean, seth Rganis is making a show about it,

(01:01:52):
you know, and it's it's sofascinating to watch, um, it's
also just fucking hilarious, youknow, it's it's fun every,
every episode does have a reallysharp script.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
I do think that this show is going the extra mile to
to really make every, especiallylike boardroom conversation and
every scenario that plays outon a set like very, um, anxiety
inducing, like like a lot ofpunchy dialogue, a lot of

(01:02:29):
over-the situations, which,again, this is why I would love
to know like what's real andwhat's not, like what are you
exaggerating?
What, um, is actually a livedexperience by somebody?
So I do think that the showcould maybe and this is where I
like and again like with thelast of us and me I kept going
back to game of Thrones it makesme almost want to like revisit

(01:02:52):
entourage and like do I need togive entourage more credit for
actually being a show that wasdoing more like inside baseball,
kind of like here's how thesausage is made, kind of stuff,
versus just like here's someguys and they're trying to date
hot girls and drive fast carsand be in action movies, like

(01:03:16):
that's, I think, a lot of whatpeople remember entourage for,
whereas the more I'm thinkingback on it, I'm like there's a
lot of uh, a lot of really deepstuff in that show which I think
the studio is really just likethey're focusing on that stuff
first and like it's it's the waythat the studio is.

(01:03:37):
Funny to me is not like laughout loud funny, but it's kind of
like huh, yeah, like that'sthat is so ironic or that is
like so ridiculous, or like thisis great satire, because, yeah,
I've seen that happen before,kind of stuff like it's just a
tip of the cap kind of showwe're like well done, I see what

(01:03:58):
you're doing here um, kind offunny to me and, and maybe not
even like funny, but just likereally entertaining, like highly
, highly entertaining, and so Idon't know it's.
You said it's renewed for asecond season.
It'll be interesting, It'll bevery interesting to see how it
comes or how it fares, come likethe golden globes and the Emmys

(01:04:22):
to see, because you know it's.
It's a known fact that, likewhen it comes to the Oscars,
hollywood loves movies.
About making movies, like willthe television voting bodies
respond warmly to a show that ishighly critical at times of

(01:04:42):
more so the movie industry?
But also just kind of like howthings get made in the business,
how things get, how things getmade in in the business?
Um, so, yeah, it's, it's veryit's, it's refreshing to have it
and it's.
It's a big win for Apple.
I think it's probably Apple'sbiggest shows, um, best, best

(01:05:03):
new original show, since, likeTed Lasso or I know, the morning
show has been around forever.
But, um, this is like a big,it's a.
It's a really good moment, or Iguess severance right,
severance is on Apple.
Yeah, I can't keep track ofthem all.
Erica Severance isn't that old,so so, yeah, I guess this is
just like another domino and ina long line of like things that

(01:05:25):
have have worked for for Apple.
So, shout out to Apple.
They've, they've sort offigured it out with their movies
.
They're one of the onlystreamers to have captured a
major Oscar at the AcademyAwards, that of course being
Coda winning Best Picture.
And yeah, now they seem to havereally had it going in the

(01:05:48):
television world for a while now.
Yeah, I know that there's someothers, others.
Is there anything more aboutthe studio that you want to give
a shout out to?
We've kind of hit the pointwhere I think you just now we're
going to tell everybodyeverything else that you've been
watching, because I knowthere's a lot.
Um, I think my belovedparamount plus and mob land

(01:06:08):
maybe gets a shout out here.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
You've been watching it all, so, so tell us what's
good well, my other show thatI've been watching on apple tv
is your friends and neighbors,um, starring john ham, and we
also have amanda pete in it andthen um, I honestly at that off
the top of my head, could nottell you the other people who
are in it.
But Jon Hamm is our maincharacter.

(01:06:30):
It's kind of like a crime dramaand he is basically like an
ex-hedge fund manager.
He gets fired and he turns toburglary to kind of keep himself
afloat.
He lives in a very prestigiousneighborhood I want to say

(01:06:53):
somewhere in New York, maybelike upstate New York I'm not
really I don't know exactlywhere it takes place, but very
prestigious community and he isbasically burglarizing is that
the word His friends, like heknows the people that he is

(01:07:16):
stealing from.
The show is centered around thatand it's just kind of this.
It's kind of one of those likenosy neighbor movie shows.
You know we're all.
We're touching on everyone'sdrama and everyone's affairs and
what's going on.
And last week's episode reallypeaked and kind of circled back

(01:07:38):
to a scene we see at the verystart of the season and I'm just
loving it.
It's just a fun watch.
It's definitely holding myattention.
I think Jon Hamm is great as ourmain guy and you know it's it's
not like the best thing I'veever seen it's, you know, but

(01:08:00):
it's, it's a good.
It's a good crime drama likeneighborhood thriller type of
thing.
You know what I mean.
So I'm really into that rightnow.
Apple TV just has kind of achokehold on me right now.
And then what else am I watching?
I started watching Hacks, whichhas been around for a while.

(01:08:21):
I'm like, where the hell have Ibeen?
It's hilarious.
It's a show, gene Smart whichwe actually just saw.
A little Gene Smart cameo inthe last episode of the studio,
which I thought was funny, andkind of alluded to her accepting
an award for the show Hacks.

(01:08:43):
And so Hacks has been around fora while.
But you know, shout out toshout out to that.
I'm, I'm loving it.
It's really funny.
She plays a, a vegas comedianwho is, um, kind of losing her
spark a little bit.
So they hire a young comedicactress to come work with her in

(01:09:04):
vegas, um, or comedic writerand um.
So I don't even want to like gointo it too much because I know
I'm going to just sound likenot that knowledgeable,
considering I think it has likefive seasons, and so it's
obviously been around for awhile, and I'm just now coming
to it uh, there's been new blackmirror episodes that I know

(01:09:26):
we've talked about off mic yeah,have you, have you I did not
get to any black mirror, no,okay I have watched most of them
.
There is a very standout, acouple standout episodes.
Um my particular favorite waseulogy with paul giamatti pretty
, pretty deep stuff.

(01:09:46):
I think that you could almostconsider these episodes as like
little miniature movies.
You can actually log them on.
Letterboxd Hotel Reverie, Ibelieve, is another episode
which was really amazing.
It's a good.
It's a very heavy seasonemotionally, I think it's it's

(01:10:09):
it's just dark, you know, butthat's Black Mirror for you.
But without spoiling it, Ithink it's a good season.
But definitely check out Eulogywith Paul Giamatti.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:27):
And then tell me what is happening on Paramount Plus
with Mobland, just like I don'tknow how much you've watched of
it.
So sorry to put you on the spot, but anytime I open up that app
, I think people know thatthat's kind of my go-to.

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
Have you watched any of it?

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
I haven't, but it's one click away.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
Yeah, I watched the first couple episodes and it was
honestly a minute ago.
I have I need to circle back toit, but I think it's definitely
worth a watch.
I think you'd like it.
I mean again, I'm very biasedbecause tom hardy is my man.
He is my main guy I would watchhim and do anything.

(01:11:07):
So I don't, I, I can't.
I would never say that he's badin anything, to be totally
honest.
So, but I'm really enjoying it.
I think that he's kind of inhis element with a show like
this.
Um, and then, uh, what is theactress that's in it?
Um, I'm trying, I'm totallyblanking on the the main woman
in Mobland, but it's, it's worth.

(01:11:30):
I think that you, I need, Iwant to keep watching it.
It's definitely, um, piqued myinterest, for sure, paramount
plus.
Uh, yeah, I did fall off the theyellow jackets wagon,
unfortunately, so I know thatwould be probably a big topic of
conversation, but cause I knowthat the there's a new season

(01:11:53):
that just recently came out, butunfortunately they've pretty
much lost me, so I haven't notinto that anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
Yeah, I watched season one of that and loved it.
Season two definitely lost somemomentum and and season three
I've yet to engage with and Ithink that's the one that just
came out yeah, yeah, well,that's, it's.
This, it's a lot it's.
I mean, this is the thing abouttelevision.

(01:12:26):
Is that it's not like when wewere growing up and Fox had a
show, cbs had a show and thenmaybe your premium cable
networks had like two or threeshows, and it was kind of like,
okay, yeah, my parents arewatching Sex and the City and
Sopranos and I'm watching somereality TV show on Fox, and then
maybe a show like 24 or CSI ispopular now, and there was just

(01:12:52):
kind of your five or six.
There's so much to watch now andso that's why and to be honest,
like that's why that's why notthat there aren't a million
different movies that play intheaters and get released to
streamers and do the festivalcircuit, and that is a ton to
keep track of and can beoverwhelming at times or

(01:13:13):
whatever.
But TV is just such a it's.
It's an insurmountable mountain.
You can never watch everything,which is why we usually don't
dedicate too many episodes to it.
On this show, we are a moviepodcast, but it is always fun to
kind of turn our attentionelsewhere for a week and it was

(01:13:34):
really fun A show like the WhiteLotus going to be watching it
anyways and so to set aside 75minutes to talk about that and
the Last of Us and some otherreally cool things that are
happening.
It's refreshing, like we talkedabout at the top, to kind of
switch gears here every now andthen I agree um, okay, anything,

(01:13:56):
anything.
Well, okay, one last thing.
I suppose are there otherthings coming out this summer
that you're looking forward toon tv?
Do you know if there's anythingelse big?

Speaker 2 (01:14:06):
I really don't know.
I mean, I'm always just kind ofwaiting to hear when the next
season of the bears coming outit's's a huge, like big favorite
of mine.
But honestly I have no idea.
I'm not plugged into the new,like the new releases of TV
shows, honestly.

Speaker 1 (01:14:26):
Euphoria is another one that I've been.
That's another one that I dowatch when it's on in real time,
and more and more informationand, of course, like some of it,
problematic, some of it justlike really concerning, again,
it's almost good.
It's now to the point whereit's like the stranger things
issue of, okay, these kids aresupposed to be in high school,

(01:14:49):
or what are you going to do?
You're going to put them likefreshman year of college Zendaya
and Sydney Sweeney and allthese different people, jacob
Elordi, like we all know thatthey're in their mid twenties
now, you know, like approachingtheir, you know some of them
turning 30.
And so this is the problem whenyou wait three years between
seasons and then you only giveus eight episodes or whatever it

(01:15:11):
is.
However, I did read recentlythat all eight episodes of the
new euphoria season are eachgoing to be pushing like 60 to
80 minutes, and so they willalso be almost like their own
mini movies.
I love that week after week,which which is good At least.
At least there's, there's morecontent there than just 45

(01:15:33):
minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
I'm glad you brought Euphoria up, because that was
definitely one of my favoriteshows when it first came out.
I mean just groundbreaking showI thought this was.
You know, there's been a lot oftragedy around this show,
unfortunately, and a lot ofcontroversy too, so I will be

(01:15:55):
really curious to see what thisnew season is like, just like
you said, given that there'sbeen so much time that's passed,
and also we have seen SydneySweeney's career just completely
skyrocket since the last season.
That last season really put heron the map with her performance

(01:16:17):
as Cassie, and so I'm veryexcited to see what's going to
happen.
But because of some unfortunatereal life events that took
place after the second seasonreleased and the way that the
second season ended, I don'tknow.

(01:16:39):
We'll see what happens.
So very, very interesting show.

Speaker 1 (01:16:45):
Absolutely All right.
So that'll do it for ourtelevision conversation today.
On excuse the intermission.
Next week we will be back and,without spoiling too much, we're
just going to be checking in onour guy Max.
I know that there's been onestory that will shock and
surprise a lot of you, erica.

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
I don't know if you've heard it yet from Max,
but I have heard a story so I'mwondering if I know if it's the
same one.

Speaker 1 (01:17:12):
Yeah, yeah, um, and then we'll do kind of, you know,
like a roundup on on some news.
Maybe some people are sayingsnippets and yeah, just try to
get used to this, try to getused to this new normal of of
meeting virtually week afterweek.
Um, but I can't wait to havemax back for the listeners to

(01:17:35):
get updated on everything that'sbeen happening with him.
And you know me and you maybewe'll see.
We'll see if max comes around,I know he'll want to talk about
the studio with us but, um,maybe we can save like five
minutes at the end of eachepisode going forward to talk
about the last of us, because,um, I'm, I'm in, I'm all in cool
all right.

(01:17:57):
So until next time, follow thetwo of us plus max.
On letterboxd, even though letme tell you people, I don't
think I've logged a movie onletterboxd in like two months um
, yeah, I and it's not that I'mnot watching stuff, I just I
don't know, I don't know what'sgotten into me.
Um, so you can't.
You can try to keep track ofwhat some of us are watching

(01:18:19):
between episodes and we'll talkto you next time.
On excuse the intermission,where movies still matter.