March 14, 2025 • 56 mins
Mickey 17 marks Bong Joon-ho's triumphant return to filmmaking following his historic Oscar sweep with Parasite. The film stars Robert Pattinson as an "expendable" – a human clone repeatedly sent on dangerous missions with his consciousness transferred to a new body after each death. When two versions of Mickey unexpectedly exist simultaneously, the story transforms into something far more complex than its sci-fi premise suggests.
What surprised me most about Mickey 17 was its comedic tone. Rather than the tense thriller the early teasers suggested, Bong delivers a surprisingly daffy, slapstick comedy reminiscent of silent film greats. Pattinson commits fully to this goofier register, creating a character both vulnerable and resilient. Mark Ruffalo shines as a fictitious failed politician leading the colony, channeling elements of current political figures with remarkable precision despite denying any intentional parallels.
The film continues Bong's exploration of class struggle, environmental concerns, and corporate critique – themes present throughout his filmography. However, Mickey 17's narrative structure relies heavily on narration and flashbacks, departing from the linear storytelling that made his previous works so effective. This structural change, combined with ambitious world-building, creates a film that feels occasionally unfocused compared to the tight construction of Parasite or Memories of Murder.
Watching Mickey 17 prompted a complete reexamination of Bong's career, from his debut Barking Dogs Never Bite to his Oscar-winning Parasite. What emerges is a portrait of a filmmaker whose remarkable consistency places him among cinema's contemporary masters. Even when experimenting with new genres or techniques, Bong maintains a distinct voice that seamlessly blends social commentary with genre entertainment. While Mickey 17 may not reach the heights of his greatest achievements, it demonstrates his continued willingness to take creative risks while delivering thought-provoking cinema that challenges and entertains in equal measure.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
How's it?
I'm Alex McCauley and I'm MaxFosberg, and this is, excuse the
Intermission, a discussion showsurrounding Bong Joon-ho, the
South Korean filmmaker's latestfilm, mickey 17, is the number
one movie of the global boxoffice and giving us the perfect
opportunity to discuss theOscar-winning director's career,
a celebratory ranking of all ofhis feature films on the other
side of this break.
(00:26):
All right Max, a two-handertoday.
Erica is a little under theweather this week, so it's you
and I on the case.
How are you doing?
Spring kind of feels like ithas sprung here in the Pacific
Northwest.
We've had a weird week ofsaving the daylight and now
(00:49):
we're looking forward to a bloodmoon lunar eclipse.
I don't know what's going onout there.
The kiddos at work, my studentshave been buck wild this week,
so I'm feeling the energy outthere.
How are you?
Tell us something good?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
this week.
So I'm feeling the energy.
Um, out there, how are you tellus something good?
Uh, yeah, I uh.
I graduate film school onsaturday very exciting week.
I had my last official classyesterday.
Um, I've got family in town tocome to the ceremony.
Um, we're gonna be.
I will definitely probably seeyou sat evening Cause we're
going to be at my sister'sAirbnb, which is like right
(01:30):
around the corner from you.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
So, uh, yeah, we're gonna uh it's it's really
exciting.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Uh, it's very exciting.
I um, I also, uh, was selected,uh, to win the Robert Shulman
Award at school for academicexcellence.
Hey, now, so I get to get upthere during the ceremony and
address my cohort and give alittle speech.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Explain this lineage that you're following in.
Who is this, robert fellow?
What does?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
this mean to you what's the dry run?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
of this speech.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Oh, you know, I'm just going to tell the cohort,
you know I'm going to celebratethat we've done it and that you
know we get to go out there andmake movies and we get to go
make movies.
That matter.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Like a true leader, a real director right here.
Ladies and gentlemen, Deflect,deflect, deflect.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
It's all you guys, absolutely, absolutely.
But yeah, it's, it's uh, it'svery exciting, it's gonna be
very cool.
I, um, you know, I, I, I reallyput uh a lot of work into
school and uh for the past twoyears, so it feels good to be
recognized on this.
(02:47):
Listen, these are the momentsthat.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Take note, people, because when good things happen
to you in life, when you arebeing recognized, celebrated, I
think that we've gotten to apoint in society where it is
almost too PC.
It is it is the right thing todo to always shift the attention
off of yourself.
Because the moment that youstart to maybe say I do deserve
(03:13):
this or I did work hard and I'myou can still say it humbly, but
you know like any sort of itgoes back to this, like Timothee
Chalamet speech kind of thing Iwant to be one of the greatest.
You want to be one of the greats.
Right're working towards this,and so I think people respond to
that honesty, and so stay trueto yourself.
You know, of course, I've beenon set with you a lot over the
(03:35):
last couple of years as you'vebeen going through this.
You have had a great team.
You could not have done italone, especially when this
academic excellence is isreflective or reflected in a lot
of group projects, right, butbut at the same time, you were
selected for a reason, so beproud of it.
It's a huge accomplishment,congratulations.
Thank you so much.
(03:56):
Yeah, very exciting.
Maybe one day you will beconsidered among among the great
, like our bong joon-ho fortoday's episode, absolutely that
would be amazing so let's talkmickey 17, and then we can also
kind of circle back to wherethis film ends up ranking in our
overall bong joon-ho list.
(04:19):
Um, that we're going tocomprise here in a little bit.
Mickey 17, the the long awaited8th feature film From director
Bong, and one that I will admitthat I was becoming more
hesitant of by the day, and thatreally Came to fruition, my
(04:40):
hesitancy when I started to seethe final trailers For this film
film.
Because, knowing how manyproduction delays there were,
and then just release date,release dates getting bumped and
then seeing what the trailerlooked like, I was hesitant
going into this film.
What kind of energy were youbringing into Mickey 17?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
yeah, you know, I think I I had picked it gosh I
almost two years ago as like amost anticipated film for 2024.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Sounds about right.
It got pushed you know whichmeans you would have been.
We would have been recordingthat in 2023.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Right, right, yeah.
So you know, I w I was veryexcited.
Parasite was kind of like.
You know, back in 2019,parasite was like the first
realization of who Bond is andhis filmography.
I remember not being, Iremember not being able to
finish.
Okja, the film that came out, Ibelieve did that come out
(05:39):
before.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Yeah, just like two years before Parasite.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah, two years before, you know, snowpiercer I,
I don't think I had realizedthat was his film until parasite
, um so, but but after parasite,I mean, I was just like, yeah,
give this guy a blank check, I'm, I'm in for whatever.
And then to hear that, and andthen, and then to get the
announcement that it's a scifilm starring Robert Pattinson,
(06:08):
you know, it just kind of grewmy hype and then for it to get
pushed back so many times, I was, I was hesitant too, and it's
so funny because the teasertrailer, the first thing that
came out, was like Mickey beinglike printed and like there was
no dialogue or anything.
It was just that scene.
(06:29):
And then it was very serious.
And then everything after thathas been very like daffy and
goofy.
And so, yeah, going in, I waslike you know, this could be
really really weird and crazy.
Luckily we've got Robert Patzat the middle of it and like I
(06:50):
always enjoy his weirdness onscreen.
But I don't know.
I mean, yeah, you had a lot ofhesitancy as well.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
And I do think we should note, um, that we are
recording this remotely today.
So shout out to whoever thatwas in the background there uh,
over on your, over on your end,one of your furry friends, um.
So yeah, I mean, I was for thethe parasite moment feels so
long ago now, at this point, itis very rare and I know that
(07:32):
this wasn't the intention ofmickey 17.
This movie was intended to comeout at the end of potentially
2023 and then certainly in 2024,so that that I feel like would
have felt a little closer to theParasite moment.
It's just, it's very rare to seea filmmaker experience the kind
of success that Bong did on aninternational, prestigious level
(07:57):
with something like Parasite,and then go roughly six years
without a film being released.
And now, of course, it wouldhave been four, four and a half
years had the production delaysand things like that not happen.
And so not that like bong fellout of favor with me or anything
like that, but I think it didjust add another level of
(08:18):
expectation to this film, mickey17, fairly or unfairly, because
I'm sitting here thinking like,wow, we waited six years.
This better be good, reallybetter be good, and this really
better be saying something.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Um well, it's hard too, because bong, you know he's
.
He's on a different level,right like he is.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
His stuff is held at such a high standard oh, we'll
get to his filmography later andit's like the lowest ranked
film is probably a seven out often, you know, yeah right, and
so it's, it's, it's, it's unfair, but at the same time, like you
know, he's, he's, he's one ofour greats absolutely um.
so quick synopsis of the film.
(09:00):
If you haven't gotten out tosee it yet or don't know too
much about it, we'll have thisdiscussion in a relatively
spoiler free way.
But Robert Pattinson, he doesplay a human.
That was something that Icouldn't really gauge from the
trailers or not, but he doesplay a human that has had a
rough patch fallen in with thebad crowd.
(09:21):
Shout out Steven Yen, who'sreally good in this movie and
takes an opportunity to go offcolony, leave earth and um,
become what is called what dothey call them?
A expendable, an expendable umfor this, the space exploration
program, and so essentially, hisbody is printed and then his
(09:48):
opportunity for a normal life isis then lost, because what is
going to happen now to mickey isthat every single time a
scientific exploration needs tohappen on the surface of a new
planet or something extremelydangerous needs to be, um, uh,
conducted on the spaceship, butsomething that needs to be
(10:10):
repaired outside, mickey's goingto go out there because he is
expendable versus someone else.
You know like you think of allthe other kind of like, whether
they're garbage space orprestigious space films that
we've seen over the past 10, 20,30 years, and there's always
like a crew of people and youkind of it's funny because there
is a kind of a meta commentaryon like, okay, there isn't going
(10:32):
to be the trope of having somecharacters on this ship that are
going to be the ones whereyou're like, oh well, they're
going to die doing somethingelse, they're going to da da, da
, da, da.
Like that is kind of the tonguein cheek joke of the movie is
that any single time there'sgoing to be danger, it's going
to be Mickey going through it.
And so we meet Mickey, and thenwe meet all the other Mickeys
(10:53):
up until Mickey 17.
And then do they call themduplicates?
I'm pretty sure they call themduplicates in the film.
A situation occurs where thenMickey 18 is introduced and you
have two Robert Pattinson'soccupying the screen at the same
time.
Hijinks continue to ensue, andthat is when the movie really
(11:15):
starts to pick up steam, in myopinion.
And so not exactly what Iexpected going in.
I didn't know that that wasgoing to be the narrative
structure of the film.
Um, what did what did you think, as you were experiencing the
film for the first time?
Was it what you expected basedoff of preconceived um notions
from the trailer, maybe thingsthat you had read or listened to
(11:36):
no, uh, not what I expected.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Way, way more, way more comedy, right like physical
, like buster keaton, charlieChaplin.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Slapstick yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Slapstick comedy going on.
You've got Mark Ruffalo in hereas a fictitious like failed
politician who's leading thiscolony to this new planet.
You could draw some very easythrough lines to here in our
society right now totally he'scome out and said he wasn't
(12:08):
doing that, but like, yes, I Ithink he's.
He's definitely channeling that, even down to like doing the
dance move at one point yeah it.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
I mean it's a hybrid really between our current
president and elon musk yeah,totally, and then really some of
his character from poor thingslike you know mark ruffalo.
He's having a great time rightnow great things.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, uh, you know tony collat is in this.
Uh, who's up?
She is mark ruffalo's wife andis obsessed with sauces, which
is a really like odd and funny,like just seasoning to her
character and also like hishandler, like he.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
He has this bravado about him where people are
obsessing over him to the pointwhere, on this colony ship um,
once a week or once a month,someone is selected to have
dinner with the mark ruffalocharacter.
But he couldn't put one foot infront of the other if it wasn't
for Tony Collette.
So they're idolizing again.
I think, a great smartcommentary of Bong by saying,
(13:12):
like you know, these politicians, these entrepreneurs, these
billionaires that people idolizenowadays are so fragile and
people who are like sometimesnot all that well put together.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Right, yeah, so so yeah, just a lot more, a lot
more laughs than I expected.
You know, when you go into asci-fi movie, you think it's
going to be.
You know, you think alien, youthink, uh, you know truckers in
space that are fighting againstan alien, Right.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Well, even based off of bongs previous films from his
work, you're you're thinking isthis going to be a mix of, like
a snow piercer and a host inthe host, or something?
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Right, and then it's much more of a snow piercer in
like Okja.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Combined together Right Like Okja, has rewatching
Okja this week, which I wastotally wrong when that first
came out.
That movie is wildly, wildlygood but also very like big,
like farcical cartoon characters, and Banjo-Junho just seems to
(14:23):
do this with his American films.
I feel like this Snowpiercerand Okja all kind of talk to
each other as far as daffy,weird political figures or
leaders of corporations doingalmost like an anime style, like
(14:47):
cartoon acting style.
Yeah, there's always going tobe something about like animals
and protecting animals in it,which I found really interesting
in this and Okja.
And then there's always likethis you know it's also, but
then there's always like thisyou know it's also, but then
it's also like this weird classsystem where it's it's it's
(15:11):
dirty, like the setting is verydirty and dark and dingy, very
much like alien and repressedtoo right Like these people are
told you can't have sex.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
You can't do this.
Your, your foods are rationeddown and that's your penalty for
misbehaving is a reduced rationat mealtime.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
So yeah, so in the moment, you know, I, I I tried
to go in with with as an open asa heart heart as I could and,
like you know, when I again,when I go into a sci fi movie, I
want like hard sci fi.
This definitely is.
I wouldn't say it's hard sci fi, but like it's, it's just a lot
lighter than I thought it wasgoing to be.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yeah, it looks like a sci fi movie.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
It doesn't sound like a sci fi movie, right, right so
, but I mean overall, you know,even in the moment I was having
a great time, I was laughing, Iwas going along with it.
Uh, you know, I I think kind ofall of his movies are might be
a tinge too long, but also Ithink that's because the stupid
(16:16):
movie theater I went to had like35 minutes of commercials
before sure?
Speaker 1 (16:20):
so I'll send you there for three hours it's.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
It's unbelievable, it's just unbelievable.
And also like to start trailersand then have a coke commercial
in the middle of that.
It's just like come on, whatare we doing here?
Speaker 1 (16:33):
I would.
I would love for the start timefor a movie to actually be the
showtime listed, yeah, and ifyou want to see the trailers
show up like 20 minutes before,that totally would just help a
lot of things, a lot of things,scheduling wise.
Anyways, I it hurts me to saythis next part For me, the thing
(16:57):
that didn't work in this filmwas Robert Pattinson.
Oh really, I, I, I agree withyou where I appreciate his
quirkiness, I, I love the factthat he is obviously one of
these actors that has, asidefrom the Batman and we've only
seen him put on the cape and cowonce but he is, for the most
(17:19):
part, stayed out of franchises,stayed out of big intellectual
properties, and has worked withthe top of the of the crop, with
when it comes to like, excitinginternational auteur directors
who are making movies that aredoing something that are taking
big swings.
And this movie certainly doestake swings.
(17:41):
I don't.
To me, they didn't necessarilyfeel all that big or original,
and I don't know if that'sbecause I've, just because this,
this movie has elements ofgroundhog's day.
It has a lot of differentthings, even some of like what
we saw, and poor things, if I'mbeing honest, and so I I think
that there's it's a bit messy,especially that first hour.
(18:07):
I think, um, when there is somuch narration.
The narration, I think, isreally what helps me feel like,
okay, no, I'm not seeing thiswrong, or something like that.
Like there's so much expositionfrom the mickey character and
robert pattinson's doing this,um, kind of like very, very,
(18:29):
yeah, but but in it he's doing,he has this very gullible tone
in his voice and he does havethis little accent that he's
doing.
I found it all kind of annoying, um, and and the performance to
be just something that I didn'texpect from robert pattinson.
It's so goofy.
It is just really really goofyand I so it leaves me
(18:50):
questioning if he was the rightperson for the role.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
I don't know what do you, I, I I think I appreciate
his goofiness and his and andthe fact that he's doing
something.
It's a different pitch that I'venever seen him do right yeah,
um, you know, I think it wouldhave been easy to play it
straight and be kind of like theCurtis Everett in this film.
(19:21):
I don't know Something aboutPattinson he is never going to
do.
I feel like what you expectright, like, even in his serious
roles, even as the batman rightlike his batman is is very
weird, is bruce wayne is veryweird and awkward and like
(19:41):
off-putting um, so I, I don'tknow, I I appreciate it, I was
able to go on the ride.
and then also he does, like youknow, know, he does the dual
thing right when, where, like we, we have 18 right now.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
My screen name on this zoom call is Alex 18 18.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
I love it Right.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
It is probably the character, the type of character
you would more expect to be themain protagonist in this film,
more of like an anti-hero Maybethat you've seen you know Robert
play before and that we've seenin other Bong Joon-ho films,
where it's like there's reallyno good guys here in this story.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah, but like, when he like in the dinner scene,
when he falls I mean that'sRobert Pattinson falling, he's
using a stunt guy Right, and soI just I don't know.
I appreciate that, that, likehe's doing that and he's like
okay with taking risks.
You know him like Tom Hardy,like all these crazy voices they
(20:47):
do, like that's why I'm, I'm,I'm, I'm in on those guys,
because someone else who'splayed doubles before too right
exactly, and uh, yeah, I'm justokay.
I'm okay with with them tryingto be weird.
Yeah, because, because, why not?
I'd rather see 10 Mickey 17sbefore I see the next Marvel
(21:12):
film, of course, right, you putanyone else in this part and
again, it's probably a pretty,by the numbers, tough guy or
whatever.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah, I think for me it was just kind of a melting
pot of not loving the patentsand performance, really
disliking the narration, andthen we've just never seen bong
tell a story this way before,with so many flashbacks, using
the narrator for exposition onthat, jumping back and forth.
We've always.
What we've always seen is justa linear timeline and he's
(21:49):
because he is so good at that um, and maybe it's just me being
greedy and and wanting like justmore of that um and and not
seeing him do something that Ifeel like is less successful.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I mean I think we're both on the record of of
believing that narration is it'snever a good sign and I feel.
Very rarely does it work 100 I,I would guess that some of that
narration was, was probably,you know, put in there because
of reshoots or maybe some stuffstudio translation right, we're,
(22:26):
yeah, we're adapting this froma book, an american book, and so
, yeah, I don't know I I I doagree that I think the narration
was a little bit too much andthe whole, like we're gonna
start the film and then gobackwards and and then get to
that place again and go forwardfrom there and then then the
(22:48):
title.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
I wrote it down.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
The title coming in 40 minutes 33 minutes.
Yeah, yeah, that that that'slike a weird fad.
I feel like that's going on infilms, in feature films, and and
rarely does it ever work.
You know, I think fresh, reallykind of uh made a couple years
(23:12):
ago made people like want to dothat all the time, um, but but
yeah, I don't know.
Uh, I I also found it like alittle repetitive, right, like I
was saying, it's, it's kind ofa algorithmic movie of
snowpiercer and oakja and it'sjust like bond you've.
(23:35):
You've kind of touched on bothof these in their own separate
movies, which are great movies.
Why, why are we now puttingthose, those themes together?
Speaker 1 (23:46):
yeah, or, you know, in this mishmash of a film, it
would be like if he made anothermovie about like another murder
mystery that also has to dowith, like classism or something
, and it would be like, again,we love seeing you do this.
Like people I, you know, alwaysname dropping athletes.
But like people came out towatch Nolan Ryan throws fastball
(24:08):
for 20 years and and so part ofme is like, just keep doing
that.
But then again it's like if, if, that's what mickey 17 would
have been, if it would have beensome science fiction murder
mystery that has to do withclassism, like I don't know if I
would have been happier or lesshappy than I am right now yeah,
there's just a lot of.
There's a lot of story in thisfilm and, uh, and you do feel it
(24:33):
from time to time, time to timeand some some of the world
building too, like I love themark ruffalo character but all
the different, um, all of theworld building, that that we all
that we kind of have to learnfor to buy in to this movie
really it.
It took me a while to be likeI'm actually invested in, I
actually care.
For a while there I was sort ofjust like I don't, I don't
(24:55):
really care about this world,that I'm in.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
I much rather would have like just stayed on the
ship like I.
This stuff I didn't care about.
I did not care about the planet, the snow planet, and the
animals yeah, these like giantgrub worm things again.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
There's always going to be cool creature design and
telepathic.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, that are also bugs, I don't know um and then.
And then you know, at the endit does get like very c CGI
heavy and feels very kind ofover the top.
You know, I was just watchingsnow piercer and like that movie
(25:38):
is just so brilliant becauseit's like it's contained you
never leave that train until thelast like 10 minutes.
Right, totally, and, and youknow, and even that has, like
you, you know you face offagainst the, the polar bear or
whatever, and like I don't knowthat, I don't know.
Uh, mickey 17 also, it was alsovery.
(25:59):
I think a lot of his films endvery like darkly, uh, and this
one way more hopeful, way more,way more of a happy ending.
You know, um, then it kind ofkind of like oakja right, like
um, yeah, so yeah, I don't knowit was, it was a mixed bag, I, I
(26:20):
thought it was good.
Again I've seen, I think I nowI've seen three 2025 releases.
Now I've seen three 2025releases.
I am so behind on my moviewatching.
I think it's probably the bestthing I've seen this year.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
It's certainly the biggest release of the year so
far.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yeah, so yeah, I don't know.
I feel like it's kind of middleof the pack if we're talking
his filmography.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah, I mean we can get into that, because I mean I
even have it a little bit lower.
But what we're going to attemptto do now is fit Mickey 17 into
his seven other films, to comeup with an eight list or an
eight film list here of BongJoon-ho's best film.
So, max, what do you have atyour eight spot?
Speaker 2 (27:08):
At eight.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
I have barking dogs bite which is also what I have.
Um, this is bong's first film,his first directed
feature-length film.
Um, in this movie it's there'sthe simplicity I think that you
love to see from a first timefeature film maker, not out
(27:30):
kicking their coverage, stickingto one simple idea, which, in
this film, is that life just isnot fair.
It follows two characters whogo through the movie, each of
them making their own separatedecisions.
One character making terribledecisions and not having to
(27:51):
suffer the consequenceconsequences for them.
And then the other character,park, the strongest character in
this film.
She is the one trying to do theright thing and repeatedly is
just getting the short end ofthe stick when it comes to, like
catching the brakes in life.
And of course, bong, especiallyin his international features in
(28:13):
in the movies that he makes inSouth Korea with South Korean
actors, he is very cynical, um,in exploring these, these ideas
and these themes of life.
And and so it's, it's a reallygood film and terms of exploring
one idea and doing it well andbeing cynical yet still having
(28:35):
hope, because the part charactershe is really strong in the way
that she is able to lift upothers around her despite how
she could just be completelyshut down the way that life just
keeps giving her a bad hand, belike, completely shut down the
way that life just keeps givingher a bad hand.
And so, um, a fine film it.
I think that you and I haveboth sort of come around to this
(28:55):
notion of ranking a director'sfirst film um a little bit
higher than than maybe somethingelse in the filmography that
comes a little bit later.
That maybe does feel derivative, something like they've done
before.
However, in this case, with therest of Bong's CV being as
strong as it is, I think eightis the right spot for barking
(29:15):
dogs Never bite.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yeah, what do you have in the seven position?
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Seven is where I have Mickey 17.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
So I was thinking you were definitely going to have
this here.
So just to be transparent, Ihaven't seen Mother Mm-hmm and I
guess if Mickey 17 wasn't here,what's your six?
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Six says Mother, okay .
Speaker 2 (29:42):
So I'm okay with putting Mickey 17 here.
With putting mickey 17 hereagain, I I think it's in in
relative, relatively likecompared to other movies that
I've seen this year.
I I think it's a great movie,but the top, the top five of bon
jun ho is it are all kind oflike masterpieces it's, it's
(30:06):
really hard to crack the topfive, absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
So we'll do mickey 17 at seven.
Mother then slides in at six,and mother is the first time, um
, that bong really starts toexplore familial connections, um
, and and he intertwines a lotof those themes with this murder
mystery trope that he is sogood at exploring, and so the
(30:32):
basic gist of Mother is that itis all about a mother whose son
that has a disability is accusedof murdering a young girl, and
she has to go through the filmprotecting her son, however,
also trying to figure out if herson is actually guilty of
committing this crime, and it'sa really taut thriller that
(30:56):
crescendos in a grand fashion.
It's got a great ending to it,um, so, just again, like a
really profound movie that that,in any, he starts to do this
right throughout his career isthat he is able to stack
multiple themes within the samemovie, whereas, like with
barking dogs, and everybodyreally is just focusing on, like
(31:16):
that, one idea of of life notbeing fair.
This is about life not beingfair.
This is a really strongstatement about, like the
paternal bond that that parentshave, and specifically like
motherhood and how it can be sotender and yet so horrific the
things you may have to gothrough as a parent, and even
you know this is reallyinteresting because it's like
(31:37):
the parent of an adult child too.
This isn't like beingmanipulative because we're using
kids.
This is a really adult storyhere.
So I think Mother is afantastic film, and and one that
I think is just more effectiveand more well thought out and
and more um concise than thanMickey 17, which does feel like
(32:00):
there are a lot of loose ends,um hard to compare the two
movies because they're sodifferent, um, you know, content
wise.
But I can look at Mickey 17 andsay that, like there there's
too many ideas without, likethey don't really quite close
the loop, whereas mother is areally strong statement.
(32:28):
So then at five, I have the host.
I have the host as well.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Okay, I have the host , I have the host as well.
Okay, yeah, the host, you know,is Bong Joon Ho's big monster
movie, again surrounded around afamily and a bit of classism in
there as well, but a really funmonster movie and again like
something that I feel like whenit came out was very fresh and
(32:54):
new but revisiting.
I just think it falls a littleshort of of kind of the heights
he goes to after the hosts, eventhough it it, it is a great,
you know.
It reminds me of Cloverfield,right In the moment.
(33:16):
Cloverfield was fantastic Inthe moment, the host was
fantastic.
But I think you can still feelsome, some growing pains in the
host.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
I think I think the host has, um, it has a bit of a
letdown in the third act.
I think that the first act ofof the host is so good and then
in the second act there's stilla lot of intrigue and you're
getting into a lot more of um.
The environmental message thatbong is trying to communicate in
(33:49):
this too, like this is this isa monster that has spawned from,
you know, like nuclear waste,uh, human neglect to to our
environment, um and and so againlike a really strong statement
about a lot of different things.
And and I just feel like in thethird act, whenever I revisit
this film and this is, I mean,we love the host.
(34:10):
The host is a movie that playsat repertory screenings, that
has been circulating, um onstreaming services and has been
accessible for a really longtime now, um, so I don't think
it'd be spoiling too much to say, but just the way that, the way
that the movie wraps up, um, II just feel like could have been
more effective, um, and andmaybe I don't know not to turn.
(34:32):
We don't want it to turn intolike a godzilla movie at the end
, but also like that's the kindof movie he's trying to make
here um and and so, yeah, I Ialso love the host, but feel
that there are four strongerfilms.
Yeah, so what's in the fourthspot okja, okja, okja.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
So I have memories of a murder here.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Oh, that's tough because higher up on my list.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
I'll just say that so memories of a murder, again
like very much set in reality.
One of his more earnest films,I'm guessing, probably has more
in um relation to something likemother.
As far as a thriller, uh, itstill has some comedy bits
(35:23):
throughout the.
What's the?
The lead actors?
Song Kane Ho, who, bon, it'slike his De Niro right, like he
shows up in almost all of thesefilms does a great job in our
(35:44):
lead lead role.
I just found it.
I just found it a little dullcompared to his other stuff, and
that's probably just because itis a straight down the line cop
(36:05):
thriller as opposed tosomething like a snow piercer,
an oak jaw, I think even you,though Parasite is definitely
based in the real world.
It even has a little bit moreflair than Memories of a Murder,
which is why I have it behindthose films.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
So, gosh, should I talk about Okja at my four and
why I think it goes there, or myperceived strengths of Memories
of a Murder?
I'll just, I'll say this rightnow and then I'll go into Okja.
For me, memories of a Murder isa perfect film.
I think it's 10 out of 10, andif you're going to compare it to
(36:48):
another film from anotherdirector's filmography, that I
think it's treated the same wayand yet has kind of had a
reclamation.
Uh moment, although not, andnot to say in memories of murder
, doesn't?
There are millions of fans ofthis movie out there, but
memories of murder is his zodiac, where, where it, especially
(37:10):
for being his second film, Idon't know, I mean, if we did an
episode of like best sophomorefeature films.
I for me, I'm putting memoriesof murder on there because the
jump that he takes for to thisfrom barking dogs never bite is
so profound.
It is because this turns in tothe, the procedural murder
(37:33):
mystery epic cop drama that,much like Zodiac, intentionally
has a lull in energy throughoutit because the case goes cold.
And so you are really stuckwith these detectives as they
are starting to go crazythemselves because they cannot
(37:53):
find a new hot lead.
They are going nowhere.
They are circling the wagons.
They're going to the sameplaces over and over again.
I think that it is such awell-crafted film and then, the
last time I rewatched it, I dida whole deep dive into the
special features on thecriterion disc that I own.
This was based on, like thelongest cold case murder mystery
(38:17):
in south korea in history.
And the final shot of this film, song kang ho, looking down the
barrel of the film, almostsaying, like the killer is still
out there, like Like I could be, he is looking, breaking the
fourth wall through the cameraintentionally to say like I
could be looking at the murdererright now, or I could be
(38:37):
looking at somebody right nowthat knows something that could
help us solve this case.
Because, again, spoiler alert,this movie came out 20 years ago
now.
But.
But the movie ends, much likeZodiac does, without knowing who
the killer is.
What ended up happening inreality is that, after the
release of this film, themurderer came forward and
(38:59):
confessed to the kills and itwas all founded, and so it
wasn't just someone you knowtrying to take credit for the
murders portrayed on screen orsomething like that.
So not only is this movie, Ithink great, but it is so
incredibly important because itactually did help solve like a
decades-long cold case um insouth korea, so, um, just kind
(39:20):
of a mind-blowing thing.
I don't know if any other movieis yeah, I had.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
I had no idea about that.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
So, um, I just so for me, I mean, like we'll get to
this, we're going to have tolitigate it later.
Memories of Murder is my numberone, and so then, going back to
Okja, at my number four, thishas nothing to do with Okja and
everything else of you know,everything other, everything
else to do with the fact thatthe other three films are so
(39:46):
strong above it.
I think this movie isincredibly sweet and I, again, I
think that this is, um, this isreally good because it's it's
bong, showing us somethingdifferent at the time, showing
us that he does have this, thisreally sweet side, this
sentimental side, that he canstill marriage with something
(40:08):
else, like having a commentaryon factory farms and the way we
treat animals, um, and and alsojust like the childlike
wonderment, um, of somethinglike my neighbor totoro, and so
I love it for all of that yeah,yeah, so my neighbor totoro is
something I thought of.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Et is something I thought of I mean it's.
It's his spielberg movie, right?
Um, and particularly the, thechase scene, uh, with the main,
when our main gal is is chasingthe truck through the city, uh,
and then you know, and, andagain it's just like just the
(40:47):
performances throughout are areabsolutely insanely good.
What Paul Dano is doing in thisfilm.
Steven Yeun, again, is here.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Gyllenhaal is really good.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Gyllenhaal is a cartoon.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Yeah, he's insane.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
I swear he's like the bug napper from Pokemon.
He is doing something wild inhere, uh.
And then tilda swinton alsodoing the duality role uh,
playing twins.
Uh, doing great.
Gincarlo espinone doing exactlywhat he does these days playing
(41:25):
a bad guy.
Um, yeah, okja, and and it.
But it all is also extremelymanipulative, like the, the, the
scene of the pigs, of the superpigs, going up the belt.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
I mean it, it works, it works on you, it makes you
cry, it makes you feel um, and Iwould say this movie ends on a
hopeful note to the very lastshot of the film, but the final
10 minutes, once you realizewhat's been happening with this
pig and how its life has beencontrolled, yeah, yeah, yeah,
absolutely so, it is, really,it's.
(41:59):
It's.
It pulls at your heartstrings.
And not to say that, like everymovie that that, just like I
don't, you know, it's tough tosay like manipulates you into
caring so much, but that's justwhat happens when we watch
movies about animals andchildren, um, and, and that when
we can tie them into our owncontemporary lives and and
(42:20):
understand, and, and our betterunderstanding of how factory
farms and these giantcorporations have, you know,
they've, they've torn apartenvironments, they've
slaughtered millions of animals,all these different things, um,
so, yeah, that's not anindictment of the film at at all
, um, but so I have, I have it.
At four, okay, three, I havesnow piercer, snow piercer, I
(42:44):
have.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
I have snow piercer at uh at two.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Okay, uh at two Okay.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Cause I have Oak chat , three of memories of a murder
at four, and then you haveparasite.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
I have parasite one, yeah, Um.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
however, if you've got memories of a murder at one.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
I think, listen, this is one of those things where,
like I know, coming into this, Ihad to just be true to myself
on the record that Memories ofMurder is my favorite Bong
Joon-ho film, but I understandthat consensus is probably going
to wind up being Parasitenumber one.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
Well, what if?
How do we feel aboutSnowpiercer at four?
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Snowpiercer could go for I have it at three.
You had it where two, two, soit's a bigger drop for you than
it is me.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Yeah, but that gets my beloved Oak up to three.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
And then you're going to give me memories at two.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Well, we can have the memories against parasite talk.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
I.
I mean, I don't really know ifthere is much of a conversation
to have there.
I just like as we.
We should probably just saveparasite and figure out what
we're gonna do with okja andsnowpiercer first.
I like the idea of puttingsnowpiercer at four and okja at
three snow.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Yeah, Snowpiercer is fucking fantastic.
I just watched it thisafternoon or rewatched it, it's
one of the best action movies ofthe decade.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Oh my God, it is incredibly violent throughout
the whole thing, which is reallyawesome.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Again we're contained one pretty much one space right
.
One train movie, a one daymovie.
It's got great world building.
It's got something to say aboutclassism and how we treat you
know, the lower class Also couldbe Chris Evans like greatest
(44:45):
performance.
I mean the monologue at the endis unbelievable.
Before he goes in to seeWilford Unbelievable stuff it is
, you know, and like, what acool, like I want to see more of
this world.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
I want to know how things became frozen, so I think
it does a really good job atthat.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
It's a great don't show tell but don't show kind of
movie.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Right, yeah, and it's got an awesome.
I was actually in the middle ofwatching it.
I was like whatever happened toJamie Bell?
Where did Jamie Bell go?
Great question.
He was so good, but yeah,you've got Jamie Bell, you've
got Octavius Spencer, you've got.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
John.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Hurt.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
Tilda Swinton again.
Ed Harris.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Yeah, it's a really good movie.
It's a really really goodaction movie.
Okay, how about Oak Jet 4 forsnowpiercer at three?
Speaker 1 (45:56):
okay, and then memories to parasite one I think
so.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
I because I think that's right I think that's
right parasites.
The.
The oscar winner.
Right, it was the.
The bonjour junho moment.
It's the one that moved theneedle for everything else for
everything else and you knowsomething like memories of
murder, or Oak gym might be forlike the.
You know the real heads.
(46:21):
Um, but parasite is just.
It was such a phenomenon whenit came out.
It is such a good movie.
It is again another very likedark ending.
Uh, it has something to sayclearly, um, and it's funny as
(46:43):
action has gore, has even a veryhorror.
Yeah, um, like that.
I remember watching it in thetheater, that for the first time
you see that guy's head come upfrom the eyes, the white of his
eyes just frightening.
Yeah, really scary, really scaryI would love to see bond take
(47:04):
on just a straight horror movieI would as well.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
I think that would be really cool, um, because he's
shown he's shown the ability tocause great tension throughout
so many of his other films whereI feel like he could really set
the atmosphere.
Well, you know, leading up toit's, you'd be hard to say
(47:30):
except for maybe fire walk withme that like David Lynch ever
really directed a horror movie,but he had just such a good way
of making you feel unsettled,and that's what bong has been
able to do, and a lot of hismovies is make you feel
unsettled.
Um, parasites in extremelyunsettling film, while also
being a great black comedy,while also, um, you know, having
(47:52):
real, no real protagonists inthe film.
No one is really, it is a trueensemble.
Nobody is absolved from theirfate, no one.
No one gets out with with a badhand, with something they did
not deserve, so to speak.
And so Parasite's greatParasite's also one of the.
(48:13):
You know, parasite is a reallysmart movie in comparison to
something like Mickey 17 thatit's not using voiceover but
it's using, um, so much dialoguebetween the characters over
different scenes that aren'thappening when, like I think
about, you know, the sister, andshe is organizing everybody
(48:35):
coming to the house and soyou're seeing things that are
happening in the house, um, andshe's explaining these things to
her family, but we're whatwe're seeing is this other
family living in luxury in thisamazingly high-tech house in the
suburbs, versus then in theslums.
Really, and I know everyonetalks about it.
(48:58):
But you always just go back tothat scene when the other family
comes home early from theircamping trip and our family, who
we've been following thisentire time, has to basically
retreat back subterranean totheir home and they have gone.
It's so smart the way he doesit, because they've gone from
(49:18):
living up here in lavish luxuryand this ivory advantage of
these other people, and then, inthe pouring down rain, they
have to go lower and lower andlower and lower, downstairs,
downhills, down ramps, all theway to their house, which is now
submerged underwater.
So, just like the symbolismbehind so many different scenes
(49:41):
in that movie, but that one inparticular, I think Hong is just
so.
That's why it is his magnumopus and will always be
remembered as that.
I think because everything justcame together at the right time.
It was the right time for forthe film to be released.
Um, you know, in society,politically, the way that we
were feeling about things rightbefore a global pandemic too is
(50:03):
is it's funny to go back andwatch that movie now, post
pandemic and and after the waythat people treated each other,
um, during lockdown, where, ofcourse, some people came
together, some people felt moredivided just such such an
important movie that really feltkind of like one of those you
know and it, of course, comesout 2019, one of the great movie
(50:23):
years of this century.
It really does feel like one ofthe last important movies.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Yeah, I totally agree with that well said, so we're
putting parasite at one parasiteat one memories of murder two
memories of murder two as afincher guy, I can't believe you
don't like memories of murdermore it's well listen as yes, uh
, I can't believe it either, andjust like Zodiac it takes, it's
(50:54):
going to take a couple of times.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
It does it 100 percent does, and it's long.
It's again.
It's like two hours and 20minutes or something like that.
Much like a Zodiac.
And so it is not always the thefun crowd pleasing like Friday
night night movie that you'regonna fire up as you're sitting
down to eat dinner.
Um, it is much more of like arainy sunday.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
You're like, okay, let's do this yeah, yeah, I
think I think I I need tore-examine it, uh, over and over
again, and I I have a dvd copyof it, so nice, happy to do that
and then Snowpiercer at threeand I guess Snowpiercer beats
Okja just because of the merefeat, some of the practicality,
(51:41):
I think, behind Snowpiercer.
Yeah, and like again, it showsChris Evans as a good actor,
which is a huge feat, very true,because he has not done
anything good in a long, longtime.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
Yeah, I love your letterbox review of Okja, our
number four film, calling itlike a live action Studio Ghibli
film.
That's totally incrediblyaccurate?
Speaker 2 (52:07):
Yeah, it is that I fell in love eight times with
that pig throughout that filmand yeah, I just.
It's a real good, just like Kid, like you said, I think like
child wonderment film, you knowit's in.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
Spielberg for sure.
The host.
His monster film comes in atfive Mother, his first dabble
into pairing a murder mysterywith familial ties in at number
six Mickey 17.
At seven, with perhaps room togrow, we shall see.
And then his number eight filmis his first film Barking dogs
(52:47):
never bite.
Bong has, of course,collaborated with other
filmmakers on anthology films.
He has numerous short filmsthat range anywhere from five
minutes to like 35 to 40 minutes, so it's not like this is
everything he's ever done.
So obviously he'd been workingfor a very long time over in
South Korea and, as we said,that parasite moment really
(53:10):
moved the needle and made him, Ithink, an international icon
really in this space.
So an incredible filmmakerwhose work, if you are
unfamiliar with.
I hope we've done a good jobtoday talking about how there
really are no misses, no skips.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
It's really true.
Like all of these movies Ithink you said at the top, like
the, the least of these moviesis a seven of 10.
So really really good films.
Speaker 1 (53:41):
All right, so that'll do it for us on today's episode
.
Until next time, please follow.
Excuse the intermission onInstagram and the three of us on
letterbox that includes Ericato see what we're watching
between shows, and we'll talk toyou next time on ETI, where
movies still matter.
Thank you.
How's it?
I'm Alex McCauley and I'm MaxFosberg, and this is, excuse the
Intermission, a discussion showsurrounding Bong Joon-ho, the
South Korean filmmaker's latestfilm, mickey 17, is the number
one movie of the global boxoffice and giving us the perfect
opportunity to discuss theOscar-winning director's career,
a celebratory ranking of all ofhis feature films on the other
side of this break.
(00:26):
All right Max, a two-handertoday.
Erica is a little under theweather this week, so it's you
and I on the case.
How are you doing?
Spring kind of feels like ithas sprung here in the Pacific
Northwest.
We've had a weird week ofsaving the daylight and now
(00:49):
we're looking forward to a bloodmoon lunar eclipse.
I don't know what's going onout there.
The kiddos at work, my studentshave been buck wild this week,
so I'm feeling the energy outthere.
How are you?
Tell us something good?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
this week.
So I'm feeling the energy.
Um, out there, how are you tellus something good?
Uh, yeah, I uh.
I graduate film school onsaturday very exciting week.
I had my last official classyesterday.
Um, I've got family in town tocome to the ceremony.
Um, we're gonna be.
I will definitely probably seeyou sat evening Cause we're
going to be at my sister'sAirbnb, which is like right
(01:30):
around the corner from you.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
So, uh, yeah, we're gonna uh it's it's really
exciting.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Uh, it's very exciting.
I um, I also, uh, was selected,uh, to win the Robert Shulman
Award at school for academicexcellence.
Hey, now, so I get to get upthere during the ceremony and
address my cohort and give alittle speech.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Explain this lineage that you're following in.
Who is this, robert fellow?
What does?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
this mean to you what's the dry run?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
of this speech.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Oh, you know, I'm just going to tell the cohort,
you know I'm going to celebratethat we've done it and that you
know we get to go out there andmake movies and we get to go
make movies.
That matter.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Like a true leader, a real director right here.
Ladies and gentlemen, Deflect,deflect, deflect.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
It's all you guys, absolutely, absolutely.
But yeah, it's, it's uh, it'svery exciting, it's gonna be
very cool.
I, um, you know, I, I, I reallyput uh a lot of work into
school and uh for the past twoyears, so it feels good to be
recognized on this.
(02:47):
Listen, these are the momentsthat.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Take note, people, because when good things happen
to you in life, when you arebeing recognized, celebrated, I
think that we've gotten to apoint in society where it is
almost too PC.
It is it is the right thing todo to always shift the attention
off of yourself.
Because the moment that youstart to maybe say I do deserve
(03:13):
this or I did work hard and I'myou can still say it humbly, but
you know like any sort of itgoes back to this, like Timothee
Chalamet speech kind of thing Iwant to be one of the greatest.
You want to be one of the greats.
Right're working towards this,and so I think people respond to
that honesty, and so stay trueto yourself.
You know, of course, I've beenon set with you a lot over the
(03:35):
last couple of years as you'vebeen going through this.
You have had a great team.
You could not have done italone, especially when this
academic excellence is isreflective or reflected in a lot
of group projects, right, butbut at the same time, you were
selected for a reason, so beproud of it.
It's a huge accomplishment,congratulations.
Thank you so much.
(03:56):
Yeah, very exciting.
Maybe one day you will beconsidered among among the great
, like our bong joon-ho fortoday's episode, absolutely that
would be amazing so let's talkmickey 17, and then we can also
kind of circle back to wherethis film ends up ranking in our
overall bong joon-ho list.
(04:19):
Um, that we're going tocomprise here in a little bit.
Mickey 17, the the long awaited8th feature film From director
Bong, and one that I will admitthat I was becoming more
hesitant of by the day, and thatreally Came to fruition, my
(04:40):
hesitancy when I started to seethe final trailers For this film
film.
Because, knowing how manyproduction delays there were,
and then just release date,release dates getting bumped and
then seeing what the trailerlooked like, I was hesitant
going into this film.
What kind of energy were youbringing into Mickey 17?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
yeah, you know, I think I I had picked it gosh I
almost two years ago as like amost anticipated film for 2024.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Sounds about right.
It got pushed you know whichmeans you would have been.
We would have been recordingthat in 2023.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Right, right, yeah.
So you know, I w I was veryexcited.
Parasite was kind of like.
You know, back in 2019,parasite was like the first
realization of who Bond is andhis filmography.
I remember not being, Iremember not being able to
finish.
Okja, the film that came out, Ibelieve did that come out
(05:39):
before.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Yeah, just like two years before Parasite.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah, two years before, you know, snowpiercer I,
I don't think I had realizedthat was his film until parasite
, um so, but but after parasite,I mean, I was just like, yeah,
give this guy a blank check, I'm, I'm in for whatever.
And then to hear that, and andthen, and then to get the
announcement that it's a scifilm starring Robert Pattinson,
(06:08):
you know, it just kind of grewmy hype and then for it to get
pushed back so many times, I was, I was hesitant too, and it's
so funny because the teasertrailer, the first thing that
came out, was like Mickey beinglike printed and like there was
no dialogue or anything.
It was just that scene.
(06:29):
And then it was very serious.
And then everything after thathas been very like daffy and
goofy.
And so, yeah, going in, I waslike you know, this could be
really really weird and crazy.
Luckily we've got Robert Patzat the middle of it and like I
(06:50):
always enjoy his weirdness onscreen.
But I don't know.
I mean, yeah, you had a lot ofhesitancy as well.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
And I do think we should note, um, that we are
recording this remotely today.
So shout out to whoever thatwas in the background there uh,
over on your, over on your end,one of your furry friends, um.
So yeah, I mean, I was for thethe parasite moment feels so
long ago now, at this point, itis very rare and I know that
(07:32):
this wasn't the intention ofmickey 17.
This movie was intended to comeout at the end of potentially
2023 and then certainly in 2024,so that that I feel like would
have felt a little closer to theParasite moment.
It's just, it's very rare to seea filmmaker experience the kind
of success that Bong did on aninternational, prestigious level
(07:57):
with something like Parasite,and then go roughly six years
without a film being released.
And now, of course, it wouldhave been four, four and a half
years had the production delaysand things like that not happen.
And so not that like bong fellout of favor with me or anything
like that, but I think it didjust add another level of
(08:18):
expectation to this film, mickey17, fairly or unfairly, because
I'm sitting here thinking like,wow, we waited six years.
This better be good, reallybetter be good, and this really
better be saying something.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Um well, it's hard too, because bong, you know he's
.
He's on a different level,right like he is.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
His stuff is held at such a high standard oh, we'll
get to his filmography later andit's like the lowest ranked
film is probably a seven out often, you know, yeah right, and
so it's, it's, it's, it's unfair, but at the same time, like you
know, he's, he's, he's one ofour greats absolutely um.
so quick synopsis of the film.
(09:00):
If you haven't gotten out tosee it yet or don't know too
much about it, we'll have thisdiscussion in a relatively
spoiler free way.
But Robert Pattinson, he doesplay a human.
That was something that Icouldn't really gauge from the
trailers or not, but he doesplay a human that has had a
rough patch fallen in with thebad crowd.
(09:21):
Shout out Steven Yen, who'sreally good in this movie and
takes an opportunity to go offcolony, leave earth and um,
become what is called what dothey call them?
A expendable, an expendable umfor this, the space exploration
program, and so essentially, hisbody is printed and then his
(09:48):
opportunity for a normal life isis then lost, because what is
going to happen now to mickey isthat every single time a
scientific exploration needs tohappen on the surface of a new
planet or something extremelydangerous needs to be, um, uh,
conducted on the spaceship, butsomething that needs to be
(10:10):
repaired outside, mickey's goingto go out there because he is
expendable versus someone else.
You know like you think of allthe other kind of like, whether
they're garbage space orprestigious space films that
we've seen over the past 10, 20,30 years, and there's always
like a crew of people and youkind of it's funny because there
is a kind of a meta commentaryon like, okay, there isn't going
(10:32):
to be the trope of having somecharacters on this ship that are
going to be the ones whereyou're like, oh well, they're
going to die doing somethingelse, they're going to da da, da
, da, da.
Like that is kind of the tonguein cheek joke of the movie is
that any single time there'sgoing to be danger, it's going
to be Mickey going through it.
And so we meet Mickey, and thenwe meet all the other Mickeys
(10:53):
up until Mickey 17.
And then do they call themduplicates?
I'm pretty sure they call themduplicates in the film.
A situation occurs where thenMickey 18 is introduced and you
have two Robert Pattinson'soccupying the screen at the same
time.
Hijinks continue to ensue, andthat is when the movie really
(11:15):
starts to pick up steam, in myopinion.
And so not exactly what Iexpected going in.
I didn't know that that wasgoing to be the narrative
structure of the film.
Um, what did what did you think, as you were experiencing the
film for the first time?
Was it what you expected basedoff of preconceived um notions
from the trailer, maybe thingsthat you had read or listened to
(11:36):
no, uh, not what I expected.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Way, way more, way more comedy, right like physical
, like buster keaton, charlieChaplin.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Slapstick yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Slapstick comedy going on.
You've got Mark Ruffalo in hereas a fictitious like failed
politician who's leading thiscolony to this new planet.
You could draw some very easythrough lines to here in our
society right now totally he'scome out and said he wasn't
(12:08):
doing that, but like, yes, I Ithink he's.
He's definitely channeling that, even down to like doing the
dance move at one point yeah it.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
I mean it's a hybrid really between our current
president and elon musk yeah,totally, and then really some of
his character from poor thingslike you know mark ruffalo.
He's having a great time rightnow great things.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, uh, you know tony collat is in this.
Uh, who's up?
She is mark ruffalo's wife andis obsessed with sauces, which
is a really like odd and funny,like just seasoning to her
character and also like hishandler, like he.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
He has this bravado about him where people are
obsessing over him to the pointwhere, on this colony ship um,
once a week or once a month,someone is selected to have
dinner with the mark ruffalocharacter.
But he couldn't put one foot infront of the other if it wasn't
for Tony Collette.
So they're idolizing again.
I think, a great smartcommentary of Bong by saying,
(13:12):
like you know, these politicians, these entrepreneurs, these
billionaires that people idolizenowadays are so fragile and
people who are like sometimesnot all that well put together.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Right, yeah, so so yeah, just a lot more, a lot
more laughs than I expected.
You know, when you go into asci-fi movie, you think it's
going to be.
You know, you think alien, youthink, uh, you know truckers in
space that are fighting againstan alien, Right.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Well, even based off of bongs previous films from his
work, you're you're thinking isthis going to be a mix of, like
a snow piercer and a host inthe host, or something?
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Right, and then it's much more of a snow piercer in
like Okja.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Combined together Right Like Okja, has rewatching
Okja this week, which I wastotally wrong when that first
came out.
That movie is wildly, wildlygood but also very like big,
like farcical cartoon characters, and Banjo-Junho just seems to
(14:23):
do this with his American films.
I feel like this Snowpiercerand Okja all kind of talk to
each other as far as daffy,weird political figures or
leaders of corporations doingalmost like an anime style, like
(14:47):
cartoon acting style.
Yeah, there's always going tobe something about like animals
and protecting animals in it,which I found really interesting
in this and Okja.
And then there's always likethis you know it's also, but
then there's always like thisyou know it's also, but then
it's also like this weird classsystem where it's it's it's
(15:11):
dirty, like the setting is verydirty and dark and dingy, very
much like alien and repressedtoo right Like these people are
told you can't have sex.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
You can't do this.
Your, your foods are rationeddown and that's your penalty for
misbehaving is a reduced rationat mealtime.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
So yeah, so in the moment, you know, I, I I tried
to go in with with as an open asa heart heart as I could and,
like you know, when I again,when I go into a sci fi movie, I
want like hard sci fi.
This definitely is.
I wouldn't say it's hard sci fi, but like it's, it's just a lot
lighter than I thought it wasgoing to be.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yeah, it looks like a sci fi movie.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
It doesn't sound like a sci fi movie, right, right so
, but I mean overall, you know,even in the moment I was having
a great time, I was laughing, Iwas going along with it.
Uh, you know, I I think kind ofall of his movies are might be
a tinge too long, but also Ithink that's because the stupid
(16:16):
movie theater I went to had like35 minutes of commercials
before sure?
Speaker 1 (16:20):
so I'll send you there for three hours it's.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
It's unbelievable, it's just unbelievable.
And also like to start trailersand then have a coke commercial
in the middle of that.
It's just like come on, whatare we doing here?
Speaker 1 (16:33):
I would.
I would love for the start timefor a movie to actually be the
showtime listed, yeah, and ifyou want to see the trailers
show up like 20 minutes before,that totally would just help a
lot of things, a lot of things,scheduling wise.
Anyways, I it hurts me to saythis next part For me, the thing
(16:57):
that didn't work in this filmwas Robert Pattinson.
Oh really, I, I, I agree withyou where I appreciate his
quirkiness, I, I love the factthat he is obviously one of
these actors that has, asidefrom the Batman and we've only
seen him put on the cape and cowonce but he is, for the most
(17:19):
part, stayed out of franchises,stayed out of big intellectual
properties, and has worked withthe top of the of the crop, with
when it comes to like, excitinginternational auteur directors
who are making movies that aredoing something that are taking
big swings.
And this movie certainly doestake swings.
(17:41):
I don't.
To me, they didn't necessarilyfeel all that big or original,
and I don't know if that'sbecause I've, just because this,
this movie has elements ofgroundhog's day.
It has a lot of differentthings, even some of like what
we saw, and poor things, if I'mbeing honest, and so I I think
that there's it's a bit messy,especially that first hour.
(18:07):
I think, um, when there is somuch narration.
The narration, I think, isreally what helps me feel like,
okay, no, I'm not seeing thiswrong, or something like that.
Like there's so much expositionfrom the mickey character and
robert pattinson's doing this,um, kind of like very, very,
(18:29):
yeah, but but in it he's doing,he has this very gullible tone
in his voice and he does havethis little accent that he's
doing.
I found it all kind of annoying, um, and and the performance to
be just something that I didn'texpect from robert pattinson.
It's so goofy.
It is just really really goofyand I so it leaves me
(18:50):
questioning if he was the rightperson for the role.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
I don't know what do you, I, I I think I appreciate
his goofiness and his and andthe fact that he's doing
something.
It's a different pitch that I'venever seen him do right yeah,
um, you know, I think it wouldhave been easy to play it
straight and be kind of like theCurtis Everett in this film.
(19:21):
I don't know Something aboutPattinson he is never going to
do.
I feel like what you expectright, like, even in his serious
roles, even as the batman rightlike his batman is is very
weird, is bruce wayne is veryweird and awkward and like
(19:41):
off-putting um, so I, I don'tknow, I I appreciate it, I was
able to go on the ride.
and then also he does, like youknow, know, he does the dual
thing right when, where, like we, we have 18 right now.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
My screen name on this zoom call is Alex 18 18.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
I love it Right.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
It is probably the character, the type of character
you would more expect to be themain protagonist in this film,
more of like an anti-hero Maybethat you've seen you know Robert
play before and that we've seenin other Bong Joon-ho films,
where it's like there's reallyno good guys here in this story.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah, but like, when he like in the dinner scene,
when he falls I mean that'sRobert Pattinson falling, he's
using a stunt guy Right, and soI just I don't know.
I appreciate that, that, likehe's doing that and he's like
okay with taking risks.
You know him like Tom Hardy,like all these crazy voices they
(20:47):
do, like that's why I'm, I'm,I'm, I'm in on those guys,
because someone else who'splayed doubles before too right
exactly, and uh, yeah, I'm justokay.
I'm okay with with them tryingto be weird.
Yeah, because, because, why not?
I'd rather see 10 Mickey 17sbefore I see the next Marvel
(21:12):
film, of course, right, you putanyone else in this part and
again, it's probably a pretty,by the numbers, tough guy or
whatever.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah, I think for me it was just kind of a melting
pot of not loving the patentsand performance, really
disliking the narration, andthen we've just never seen bong
tell a story this way before,with so many flashbacks, using
the narrator for exposition onthat, jumping back and forth.
We've always.
What we've always seen is justa linear timeline and he's
(21:49):
because he is so good at that um, and maybe it's just me being
greedy and and wanting like justmore of that um and and not
seeing him do something that Ifeel like is less successful.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I mean I think we're both on the record of of
believing that narration is it'snever a good sign and I feel.
Very rarely does it work 100 I,I would guess that some of that
narration was, was probably,you know, put in there because
of reshoots or maybe some stuffstudio translation right, we're,
(22:26):
yeah, we're adapting this froma book, an american book, and so
, yeah, I don't know I I I doagree that I think the narration
was a little bit too much andthe whole, like we're gonna
start the film and then gobackwards and and then get to
that place again and go forwardfrom there and then then the
(22:48):
title.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
I wrote it down.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
The title coming in 40 minutes 33 minutes.
Yeah, yeah, that that that'slike a weird fad.
I feel like that's going on infilms, in feature films, and and
rarely does it ever work.
You know, I think fresh, reallykind of uh made a couple years
(23:12):
ago made people like want to dothat all the time, um, but but
yeah, I don't know.
Uh, I I also found it like alittle repetitive, right, like I
was saying, it's, it's kind ofa algorithmic movie of
snowpiercer and oakja and it'sjust like bond you've.
(23:35):
You've kind of touched on bothof these in their own separate
movies, which are great movies.
Why, why are we now puttingthose, those themes together?
Speaker 1 (23:46):
yeah, or, you know, in this mishmash of a film, it
would be like if he made anothermovie about like another murder
mystery that also has to dowith, like classism or something
, and it would be like, again,we love seeing you do this.
Like people I, you know, alwaysname dropping athletes.
But like people came out towatch Nolan Ryan throws fastball
(24:08):
for 20 years and and so part ofme is like, just keep doing
that.
But then again it's like if, if, that's what mickey 17 would
have been, if it would have beensome science fiction murder
mystery that has to do withclassism, like I don't know if I
would have been happier or lesshappy than I am right now yeah,
there's just a lot of.
There's a lot of story in thisfilm and, uh, and you do feel it
(24:33):
from time to time, time to timeand some some of the world
building too, like I love themark ruffalo character but all
the different, um, all of theworld building, that that we all
that we kind of have to learnfor to buy in to this movie
really it.
It took me a while to be likeI'm actually invested in, I
actually care.
For a while there I was sort ofjust like I don't, I don't
(24:55):
really care about this world,that I'm in.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
I much rather would have like just stayed on the
ship like I.
This stuff I didn't care about.
I did not care about the planet, the snow planet, and the
animals yeah, these like giantgrub worm things again.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
There's always going to be cool creature design and
telepathic.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, that are also bugs, I don't know um and then.
And then you know, at the endit does get like very c CGI
heavy and feels very kind ofover the top.
You know, I was just watchingsnow piercer and like that movie
(25:38):
is just so brilliant becauseit's like it's contained you
never leave that train until thelast like 10 minutes.
Right, totally, and, and youknow, and even that has, like
you, you know you face offagainst the, the polar bear or
whatever, and like I don't knowthat, I don't know.
Uh, mickey 17 also, it was alsovery.
(25:59):
I think a lot of his films endvery like darkly, uh, and this
one way more hopeful, way more,way more of a happy ending.
You know, um, then it kind ofkind of like oakja right, like
um, yeah, so yeah, I don't knowit was, it was a mixed bag, I, I
(26:20):
thought it was good.
Again I've seen, I think I nowI've seen three 2025 releases.
Now I've seen three 2025releases.
I am so behind on my moviewatching.
I think it's probably the bestthing I've seen this year.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
It's certainly the biggest release of the year so
far.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yeah, so yeah, I don't know.
I feel like it's kind of middleof the pack if we're talking
his filmography.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah, I mean we can get into that, because I mean I
even have it a little bit lower.
But what we're going to attemptto do now is fit Mickey 17 into
his seven other films, to comeup with an eight list or an
eight film list here of BongJoon-ho's best film.
So, max, what do you have atyour eight spot?
Speaker 2 (27:08):
At eight.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
I have barking dogs bite which is also what I have.
Um, this is bong's first film,his first directed
feature-length film.
Um, in this movie it's there'sthe simplicity I think that you
love to see from a first timefeature film maker, not out
(27:30):
kicking their coverage, stickingto one simple idea, which, in
this film, is that life just isnot fair.
It follows two characters whogo through the movie, each of
them making their own separatedecisions.
One character making terribledecisions and not having to
(27:51):
suffer the consequenceconsequences for them.
And then the other character,park, the strongest character in
this film.
She is the one trying to do theright thing and repeatedly is
just getting the short end ofthe stick when it comes to, like
catching the brakes in life.
And of course, bong, especiallyin his international features in
(28:13):
in the movies that he makes inSouth Korea with South Korean
actors, he is very cynical, um,in exploring these, these ideas
and these themes of life.
And and so it's, it's a reallygood film and terms of exploring
one idea and doing it well andbeing cynical yet still having
(28:35):
hope, because the part charactershe is really strong in the way
that she is able to lift upothers around her despite how
she could just be completelyshut down the way that life just
keeps giving her a bad hand, belike, completely shut down the
way that life just keeps givingher a bad hand.
And so, um, a fine film it.
I think that you and I haveboth sort of come around to this
(28:55):
notion of ranking a director'sfirst film um a little bit
higher than than maybe somethingelse in the filmography that
comes a little bit later.
That maybe does feel derivative, something like they've done
before.
However, in this case, with therest of Bong's CV being as
strong as it is, I think eightis the right spot for barking
(29:15):
dogs Never bite.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yeah, what do you have in the seven position?
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Seven is where I have Mickey 17.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
So I was thinking you were definitely going to have
this here.
So just to be transparent, Ihaven't seen Mother Mm-hmm and I
guess if Mickey 17 wasn't here,what's your six?
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Six says Mother, okay .
Speaker 2 (29:42):
So I'm okay with putting Mickey 17 here.
With putting mickey 17 hereagain, I I think it's in in
relative, relatively likecompared to other movies that
I've seen this year.
I I think it's a great movie,but the top, the top five of bon
jun ho is it are all kind oflike masterpieces it's, it's
(30:06):
really hard to crack the topfive, absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
So we'll do mickey 17 at seven.
Mother then slides in at six,and mother is the first time, um
, that bong really starts toexplore familial connections, um
, and and he intertwines a lotof those themes with this murder
mystery trope that he is sogood at exploring, and so the
(30:32):
basic gist of Mother is that itis all about a mother whose son
that has a disability is accusedof murdering a young girl, and
she has to go through the filmprotecting her son, however,
also trying to figure out if herson is actually guilty of
committing this crime, and it'sa really taut thriller that
(30:56):
crescendos in a grand fashion.
It's got a great ending to it,um, so, just again, like a
really profound movie that that,in any, he starts to do this
right throughout his career isthat he is able to stack
multiple themes within the samemovie, whereas, like with
barking dogs, and everybodyreally is just focusing on, like
(31:16):
that, one idea of of life notbeing fair.
This is about life not beingfair.
This is a really strongstatement about, like the
paternal bond that that parentshave, and specifically like
motherhood and how it can be sotender and yet so horrific the
things you may have to gothrough as a parent, and even
you know this is reallyinteresting because it's like
(31:37):
the parent of an adult child too.
This isn't like beingmanipulative because we're using
kids.
This is a really adult storyhere.
So I think Mother is afantastic film, and and one that
I think is just more effectiveand more well thought out and
and more um concise than thanMickey 17, which does feel like
(32:00):
there are a lot of loose ends,um hard to compare the two
movies because they're sodifferent, um, you know, content
wise.
But I can look at Mickey 17 andsay that, like there there's
too many ideas without, likethey don't really quite close
the loop, whereas mother is areally strong statement.
(32:28):
So then at five, I have the host.
I have the host as well.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Okay, I have the host , I have the host as well.
Okay, yeah, the host, you know,is Bong Joon Ho's big monster
movie, again surrounded around afamily and a bit of classism in
there as well, but a really funmonster movie and again like
something that I feel like whenit came out was very fresh and
(32:54):
new but revisiting.
I just think it falls a littleshort of of kind of the heights
he goes to after the hosts, eventhough it it, it is a great,
you know.
It reminds me of Cloverfield,right In the moment.
(33:16):
Cloverfield was fantastic Inthe moment, the host was
fantastic.
But I think you can still feelsome, some growing pains in the
host.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
I think I think the host has, um, it has a bit of a
letdown in the third act.
I think that the first act ofof the host is so good and then
in the second act there's stilla lot of intrigue and you're
getting into a lot more of um.
The environmental message thatbong is trying to communicate in
(33:49):
this too, like this is this isa monster that has spawned from,
you know, like nuclear waste,uh, human neglect to to our
environment, um and and so againlike a really strong statement
about a lot of different things.
And and I just feel like in thethird act, whenever I revisit
this film and this is, I mean,we love the host.
(34:10):
The host is a movie that playsat repertory screenings, that
has been circulating, um onstreaming services and has been
accessible for a really longtime now, um, so I don't think
it'd be spoiling too much to say, but just the way that, the way
that the movie wraps up, um, II just feel like could have been
more effective, um, and andmaybe I don't know not to turn.
(34:32):
We don't want it to turn intolike a godzilla movie at the end
, but also like that's the kindof movie he's trying to make
here um and and so, yeah, I Ialso love the host, but feel
that there are four strongerfilms.
Yeah, so what's in the fourthspot okja, okja, okja.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
So I have memories of a murder here.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Oh, that's tough because higher up on my list.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
I'll just say that so memories of a murder, again
like very much set in reality.
One of his more earnest films,I'm guessing, probably has more
in um relation to something likemother.
As far as a thriller, uh, itstill has some comedy bits
(35:23):
throughout the.
What's the?
The lead actors?
Song Kane Ho, who, bon, it'slike his De Niro right, like he
shows up in almost all of thesefilms does a great job in our
(35:44):
lead lead role.
I just found it.
I just found it a little dullcompared to his other stuff, and
that's probably just because itis a straight down the line cop
(36:05):
thriller as opposed tosomething like a snow piercer,
an oak jaw, I think even you,though Parasite is definitely
based in the real world.
It even has a little bit moreflair than Memories of a Murder,
which is why I have it behindthose films.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
So, gosh, should I talk about Okja at my four and
why I think it goes there, or myperceived strengths of Memories
of a Murder?
I'll just, I'll say this rightnow and then I'll go into Okja.
For me, memories of a Murder isa perfect film.
I think it's 10 out of 10, andif you're going to compare it to
(36:48):
another film from anotherdirector's filmography, that I
think it's treated the same wayand yet has kind of had a
reclamation.
Uh moment, although not, andnot to say in memories of murder
, doesn't?
There are millions of fans ofthis movie out there, but
memories of murder is his zodiac, where, where it, especially
(37:10):
for being his second film, Idon't know, I mean, if we did an
episode of like best sophomorefeature films.
I for me, I'm putting memoriesof murder on there because the
jump that he takes for to thisfrom barking dogs never bite is
so profound.
It is because this turns in tothe, the procedural murder
(37:33):
mystery epic cop drama that,much like Zodiac, intentionally
has a lull in energy throughoutit because the case goes cold.
And so you are really stuckwith these detectives as they
are starting to go crazythemselves because they cannot
(37:53):
find a new hot lead.
They are going nowhere.
They are circling the wagons.
They're going to the sameplaces over and over again.
I think that it is such awell-crafted film and then, the
last time I rewatched it, I dida whole deep dive into the
special features on thecriterion disc that I own.
This was based on, like thelongest cold case murder mystery
(38:17):
in south korea in history.
And the final shot of this film, song kang ho, looking down the
barrel of the film, almostsaying, like the killer is still
out there, like Like I could be, he is looking, breaking the
fourth wall through the cameraintentionally to say like I
could be looking at the murdererright now, or I could be
(38:37):
looking at somebody right nowthat knows something that could
help us solve this case.
Because, again, spoiler alert,this movie came out 20 years ago
now.
But.
But the movie ends, much likeZodiac does, without knowing who
the killer is.
What ended up happening inreality is that, after the
release of this film, themurderer came forward and
(38:59):
confessed to the kills and itwas all founded, and so it
wasn't just someone you knowtrying to take credit for the
murders portrayed on screen orsomething like that.
So not only is this movie, Ithink great, but it is so
incredibly important because itactually did help solve like a
decades-long cold case um insouth korea, so, um, just kind
(39:20):
of a mind-blowing thing.
I don't know if any other movieis yeah, I had.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
I had no idea about that.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
So, um, I just so for me, I mean, like we'll get to
this, we're going to have tolitigate it later.
Memories of Murder is my numberone, and so then, going back to
Okja, at my number four, thishas nothing to do with Okja and
everything else of you know,everything other, everything
else to do with the fact thatthe other three films are so
(39:46):
strong above it.
I think this movie isincredibly sweet and I, again, I
think that this is, um, this isreally good because it's it's
bong, showing us somethingdifferent at the time, showing
us that he does have this, thisreally sweet side, this
sentimental side, that he canstill marriage with something
(40:08):
else, like having a commentaryon factory farms and the way we
treat animals, um, and and alsojust like the childlike
wonderment, um, of somethinglike my neighbor totoro, and so
I love it for all of that yeah,yeah, so my neighbor totoro is
something I thought of.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Et is something I thought of I mean it's.
It's his spielberg movie, right?
Um, and particularly the, thechase scene, uh, with the main,
when our main gal is is chasingthe truck through the city, uh,
and then you know, and, andagain it's just like just the
(40:47):
performances throughout are areabsolutely insanely good.
What Paul Dano is doing in thisfilm.
Steven Yeun, again, is here.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Gyllenhaal is really good.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Gyllenhaal is a cartoon.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Yeah, he's insane.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
I swear he's like the bug napper from Pokemon.
He is doing something wild inhere, uh.
And then tilda swinton alsodoing the duality role uh,
playing twins.
Uh, doing great.
Gincarlo espinone doing exactlywhat he does these days playing
(41:25):
a bad guy.
Um, yeah, okja, and and it.
But it all is also extremelymanipulative, like the, the, the
scene of the pigs, of the superpigs, going up the belt.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
I mean it, it works, it works on you, it makes you
cry, it makes you feel um, and Iwould say this movie ends on a
hopeful note to the very lastshot of the film, but the final
10 minutes, once you realizewhat's been happening with this
pig and how its life has beencontrolled, yeah, yeah, yeah,
absolutely so, it is, really,it's.
(41:59):
It's.
It pulls at your heartstrings.
And not to say that, like everymovie that that, just like I
don't, you know, it's tough tosay like manipulates you into
caring so much, but that's justwhat happens when we watch
movies about animals andchildren, um, and, and that when
we can tie them into our owncontemporary lives and and
(42:20):
understand, and, and our betterunderstanding of how factory
farms and these giantcorporations have, you know,
they've, they've torn apartenvironments, they've
slaughtered millions of animals,all these different things, um,
so, yeah, that's not anindictment of the film at at all
, um, but so I have, I have it.
At four, okay, three, I havesnow piercer, snow piercer, I
(42:44):
have.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
I have snow piercer at uh at two.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Okay, uh at two Okay.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Cause I have Oak chat , three of memories of a murder
at four, and then you haveparasite.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
I have parasite one, yeah, Um.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
however, if you've got memories of a murder at one.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
I think, listen, this is one of those things where,
like I know, coming into this, Ihad to just be true to myself
on the record that Memories ofMurder is my favorite Bong
Joon-ho film, but I understandthat consensus is probably going
to wind up being Parasitenumber one.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
Well, what if?
How do we feel aboutSnowpiercer at four?
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Snowpiercer could go for I have it at three.
You had it where two, two, soit's a bigger drop for you than
it is me.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Yeah, but that gets my beloved Oak up to three.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
And then you're going to give me memories at two.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Well, we can have the memories against parasite talk.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
I.
I mean, I don't really know ifthere is much of a conversation
to have there.
I just like as we.
We should probably just saveparasite and figure out what
we're gonna do with okja andsnowpiercer first.
I like the idea of puttingsnowpiercer at four and okja at
three snow.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Yeah, Snowpiercer is fucking fantastic.
I just watched it thisafternoon or rewatched it, it's
one of the best action movies ofthe decade.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Oh my God, it is incredibly violent throughout
the whole thing, which is reallyawesome.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Again we're contained one pretty much one space right
.
One train movie, a one daymovie.
It's got great world building.
It's got something to say aboutclassism and how we treat you
know, the lower class Also couldbe Chris Evans like greatest
(44:45):
performance.
I mean the monologue at the endis unbelievable.
Before he goes in to seeWilford Unbelievable stuff it is
, you know, and like, what acool, like I want to see more of
this world.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
I want to know how things became frozen, so I think
it does a really good job atthat.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
It's a great don't show tell but don't show kind of
movie.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Right, yeah, and it's got an awesome.
I was actually in the middle ofwatching it.
I was like whatever happened toJamie Bell?
Where did Jamie Bell go?
Great question.
He was so good, but yeah,you've got Jamie Bell, you've
got Octavius Spencer, you've got.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
John.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Hurt.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
Tilda Swinton again.
Ed Harris.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Yeah, it's a really good movie.
It's a really really goodaction movie.
Okay, how about Oak Jet 4 forsnowpiercer at three?
Speaker 1 (45:56):
okay, and then memories to parasite one I think
so.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
I because I think that's right I think that's
right parasites.
The.
The oscar winner.
Right, it was the.
The bonjour junho moment.
It's the one that moved theneedle for everything else for
everything else and you knowsomething like memories of
murder, or Oak gym might be forlike the.
You know the real heads.
(46:21):
Um, but parasite is just.
It was such a phenomenon whenit came out.
It is such a good movie.
It is again another very likedark ending.
Uh, it has something to sayclearly, um, and it's funny as
(46:43):
action has gore, has even a veryhorror.
Yeah, um, like that.
I remember watching it in thetheater, that for the first time
you see that guy's head come upfrom the eyes, the white of his
eyes just frightening.
Yeah, really scary, really scaryI would love to see bond take
(47:04):
on just a straight horror movieI would as well.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
I think that would be really cool, um, because he's
shown he's shown the ability tocause great tension throughout
so many of his other films whereI feel like he could really set
the atmosphere.
Well, you know, leading up toit's, you'd be hard to say
(47:30):
except for maybe fire walk withme that like David Lynch ever
really directed a horror movie,but he had just such a good way
of making you feel unsettled,and that's what bong has been
able to do, and a lot of hismovies is make you feel
unsettled.
Um, parasites in extremelyunsettling film, while also
being a great black comedy,while also, um, you know, having
(47:52):
real, no real protagonists inthe film.
No one is really, it is a trueensemble.
Nobody is absolved from theirfate, no one.
No one gets out with with a badhand, with something they did
not deserve, so to speak.
And so Parasite's greatParasite's also one of the.
(48:13):
You know, parasite is a reallysmart movie in comparison to
something like Mickey 17 thatit's not using voiceover but
it's using, um, so much dialoguebetween the characters over
different scenes that aren'thappening when, like I think
about, you know, the sister, andshe is organizing everybody
(48:35):
coming to the house and soyou're seeing things that are
happening in the house, um, andshe's explaining these things to
her family, but we're whatwe're seeing is this other
family living in luxury in thisamazingly high-tech house in the
suburbs, versus then in theslums.
Really, and I know everyonetalks about it.
(48:58):
But you always just go back tothat scene when the other family
comes home early from theircamping trip and our family, who
we've been following thisentire time, has to basically
retreat back subterranean totheir home and they have gone.
It's so smart the way he doesit, because they've gone from
(49:18):
living up here in lavish luxuryand this ivory advantage of
these other people, and then, inthe pouring down rain, they
have to go lower and lower andlower and lower, downstairs,
downhills, down ramps, all theway to their house, which is now
submerged underwater.
So, just like the symbolismbehind so many different scenes
(49:41):
in that movie, but that one inparticular, I think Hong is just
so.
That's why it is his magnumopus and will always be
remembered as that.
I think because everything justcame together at the right time.
It was the right time for forthe film to be released.
Um, you know, in society,politically, the way that we
were feeling about things rightbefore a global pandemic too is
(50:03):
is it's funny to go back andwatch that movie now, post
pandemic and and after the waythat people treated each other,
um, during lockdown, where, ofcourse, some people came
together, some people felt moredivided just such such an
important movie that really feltkind of like one of those you
know and it, of course, comesout 2019, one of the great movie
(50:23):
years of this century.
It really does feel like one ofthe last important movies.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Yeah, I totally agree with that well said, so we're
putting parasite at one parasiteat one memories of murder two
memories of murder two as afincher guy, I can't believe you
don't like memories of murdermore it's well listen as yes, uh
, I can't believe it either, andjust like Zodiac it takes, it's
(50:54):
going to take a couple of times.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
It does it 100 percent does, and it's long.
It's again.
It's like two hours and 20minutes or something like that.
Much like a Zodiac.
And so it is not always the thefun crowd pleasing like Friday
night night movie that you'regonna fire up as you're sitting
down to eat dinner.
Um, it is much more of like arainy sunday.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
You're like, okay, let's do this yeah, yeah, I
think I think I I need tore-examine it, uh, over and over
again, and I I have a dvd copyof it, so nice, happy to do that
and then Snowpiercer at threeand I guess Snowpiercer beats
Okja just because of the merefeat, some of the practicality,
(51:41):
I think, behind Snowpiercer.
Yeah, and like again, it showsChris Evans as a good actor,
which is a huge feat, very true,because he has not done
anything good in a long, longtime.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
Yeah, I love your letterbox review of Okja, our
number four film, calling itlike a live action Studio Ghibli
film.
That's totally incrediblyaccurate?
Speaker 2 (52:07):
Yeah, it is that I fell in love eight times with
that pig throughout that filmand yeah, I just.
It's a real good, just like Kid, like you said, I think like
child wonderment film, you knowit's in.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
Spielberg for sure.
The host.
His monster film comes in atfive Mother, his first dabble
into pairing a murder mysterywith familial ties in at number
six Mickey 17.
At seven, with perhaps room togrow, we shall see.
And then his number eight filmis his first film Barking dogs
(52:47):
never bite.
Bong has, of course,collaborated with other
filmmakers on anthology films.
He has numerous short filmsthat range anywhere from five
minutes to like 35 to 40 minutes, so it's not like this is
everything he's ever done.
So obviously he'd been workingfor a very long time over in
South Korea and, as we said,that parasite moment really
(53:10):
moved the needle and made him, Ithink, an international icon
really in this space.
So an incredible filmmakerwhose work, if you are
unfamiliar with.
I hope we've done a good jobtoday talking about how there
really are no misses, no skips.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
It's really true.
Like all of these movies Ithink you said at the top, like
the, the least of these moviesis a seven of 10.
So really really good films.
Speaker 1 (53:41):
All right, so that'll do it for us on today's episode
.
Until next time, please follow.
Excuse the intermission onInstagram and the three of us on
letterbox that includes Ericato see what we're watching
between shows, and we'll talk toyou next time on ETI, where
movies still matter.
Thank you.
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