Warfare Review and Alex Garland's Resurgence

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
how's it?
I'm alex mccauley I'm maxfosberg I'm erica kraus and this
is excuse the intermission adiscussion show surrounding
finding what was lost.
Ahead.
On this episode, the three ofus will discuss alex garland and
ray mendoza's new film warfare,and then talk about how garland
has resurrected his filmmakingpersona after his 2022 film men.
That will lead us down a rabbithole to highlight some other

(00:25):
directors who we feel have mademajor comebacks in their career.
So a lot to get to on this pod,which starts on the other side
of this break.
Hey guys, how are we doingtoday?
It is a spring break aroundthese parts.
Erica, you're busy playing DrDoolittle running around town.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Dr Doolittle- oh, because of my job.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yeah don't even get me started on my day today.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
I fully crashed out today, as your students like to
say, trying to chase some loosechickens around my client's
house are chickens the mostexotic animal you've ever
encountered in your job?
no, no um snakes, lizards like along time ago, like when I used
to do this a long time ago.

(01:17):
People are probably likewondering what I'm talking about
.
I do, I'm a, I have a petsitting sitting business, but,
like a long time ago, I used tomy clients had reptiles, which
is cool, I mean super easy.
But right, I guess, right nowmy most exotic yeah, like my
clients, I mostly I'm takingcare of their cats, but they
also have chickens and they were.

(01:38):
It was total anarchy.
today they all just like fuckingturned on me and, uh, I don't
know what was in the air, butsomething crazy, so I can only
imagine how I looked, trying totry to wrangle these chickens
back in for 30 minutes chickenshave kind of always scared me a
little bit like people.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
You know they'll pick it up and you move it and you
do the neck thing and its headstays still, I would never try
to pick up a chicken.
Interesting.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Too close to a dinosaur.
Too close they're so cute.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
All birds kind of freak out, the ones that are
real Not the robot ones.
And then, max, how are youdoing?
We're kind of getting ready fora boys trip, a bittersweet boys
trip, here later this weekend.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah, we got boys weekend coming up, uh, which is
exciting.
I don't think I'm gonna be ableto talk everyone all eight of
us to go see sinners on orcasisland, but uh, uh, yeah, no, uh
, very excited we're.
We're literally within like twoweeks here of uh, of starting
the engine and driving south.
So, um, yeah, it's pretty,pretty, pretty wild.

(02:46):
We got rid of another piece offurniture today.
If anyone needs a couch, hit meup like come, come, get my
couch.
All sorts of things you've beenthrowing out vhs's dvds in our
group chat not literally, maybeyou

Speaker 3 (03:01):
have actually been throwing them out, but but
offering them up, I should sayyes, perfect, good, good.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
Yeah, no, that will be really fun.
Are you bringing any recordingequipment up there?
One last episode of30-something, perhaps.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
That'd be interesting .
Yeah, I was thinking aboutbringing my little DVR tape Hi8
tape camera.
That would be cool.
Yeah, we used it.
It was part of a shoot lastweekend out in Edgewood and we
got to use that camera alongwith our cinema camera and I

(03:37):
actually got an assembly cut ofit done today and one of Chatter
Network's own Timling is uh isthe star of the show in this.
It's pretty fun, but I I lovethe the usage of the mixed media
and kind of found footageaspect of of this film.
So, um, pretty cool, bring ityeah, yeah, yeah, I think I will

(04:00):
for sure your little roadclip-on guy too oh yeah, that'd
be fun.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
I mean you will probably be the only sober
people on this trip.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
So we might be able to get some really good content.
Good content, yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
Um, okay, so let's let's talk about warfare.
The fifth film from AlexGarland is co-directed by
Raymond Doza and based onMendoza's experiences as a US
Navy SEAL during the Iraq War in2006.
The film chronicles twoplatoons one which gets held up
during a stakeout and then theother which eventually comes to
their aid.
The film is performing verywell with audiences, despite a

(04:35):
modest box office opening.
Warfare received an A onCinemaScore, is currently at 93%
on Rotten Tomatoes and holds a3.7 on our beloved Letterboxd.
So what did you guys make ofWarfare?
Erica, we'll start with you,since Garland is your guy.

Speaker 3 (04:51):
Yeah, I loved it.
I saw it yesterday and I reallyenjoyed it.
I thought that it was, I mean,I don't know.
I mean the sound was amazing.
It was a real nail biter.
It was actually very impressive, just everything they did with

(05:11):
it.
Um, and I'm glad I didn't havego into it with a lot of
expectation either, cause I Ifeel like I saw a lot of
people's like a lot of mixedreviews on it and people kind of
maybe expecting something thatit wasn't going to be, but I I
really enjoyed it.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Uh, intense, right, I mean it is.
It is such an intense film thatprobably reminds people who who
saw something like Black HawkDown or Saving Private Ryan in
the theaters in the day akin tothat kind of experience, even

(05:50):
though it's even more strippeddown than those.
Right, there are no characterarcs or character types.
You don't know what the missionis, you don't know why they're
there, and I think that's areally smart it's.
It's really a reenactment of uh, mendoza's memories and the,

(06:13):
the guys in the, the platoon'smemories.
Um, yeah, it's, it's, it was anastonishing piece.
I thought I saw it in imax overin gig harbor and, um, I, I was
just, I was blown back, youknow every second, um, yeah, I
really, really loved, loved thisfilm there were a couple of

(06:36):
moments in the movie that werealmost like jump scares, because
the tension is built soexpertly.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
Uh, the first 30 minutes is really nothing but
edging, and you know obviouslythat this mission's going to go
awry and warfare no pun intendedis going to ensue.
And when that happens,especially when the first
improvised explosive device goesoff, shook me I can't even

(07:04):
imagine in imax what it wouldhave felt like through the
little hole.
Yeah, no, that was just thatgrenade.
The grenade through the hole wasreally good too, because that's
really our first moment walkedoutside, but yes, when they
walked outside I lurched back inmy seat, yeah look for the
blood and the smoke that's awild line, shout out.
My guy will polter just likedoing great stuff every internet

(07:27):
boyfriend uh out there rightnow.
Uh in this movie will poltermichael uh galafindi kit connor
really good young cast uhcharles melton, like something
else that reminded me a littlebit of blackhawk down too, when
I was watching him where I waslike this could be one of those
casts where people look back onit in five years and say, wow,
look at all the, look at all the, the talent that was in this

(07:50):
one film, much like black hawkdown, 13 hours, an act of valor,
were two movies that came to mymind because those are very
non-fiction not that somethinglike saving private ryan and
black hawk down aren'tnon-fiction, but you do have a
more character arcs like youmentioned in those films,
whereas this does feel almostdocumentary, um, documentarian,

(08:10):
and I I really love that aboutit.
Erica, you calling it nailbiting like I've been rubbing my
thumb because it's so jagged,right now trying to like stand
it back down.
I just need to go get nail files.
I saw this movie like threehours ago and I think finally
just started to to come down offof it.
I thought it was.
I thought it was much like howthe two of you said very intense

(08:30):
, really well done.
Glenn Fremantle is Garland soundguy who he has worked on um,
who he's worked in collaborationwith on annihilation, ex
machina and most recently civilwar, and so you know, I think we
always like to find theselittle director recently civil
war, and so you know, I think wealways like to find these
little director.
And then um, you know techpeople, combos and kind of tab

(08:51):
them, like david fincher andkirk baxter, his editor, all
these different people that youreally feel like work hand in
hand.
Um, uh, the cinematographer forrobert edgars right now is
really cooking, and I feel likethis guy, glenn freemantle, it's
only a matter of time before hestarts to get real recognition,
perhaps like at the AcademyAwards for something like sound
design, because just incrediblestuff in this movie.

(09:14):
Once the action really startsand you're jumping back and
forth between the fog of war andthen you know like someone will
be shell shocked and the soundwill change and then gunfire
picks back up or you're back um,just hearing the, the screams
and the horrors of war.
Incredible stuff.
I mean I was I know because Ikind of cased my theater walking

(09:38):
out, um, that I was in therewith probably some folks who
have bravely served in themilitary before and I just
couldn't imagine what they werethinking watching this movie.
And so kudos all around toeveryone involved in Mendoza,
especially for being able to to.
You know, I don't know ifcathartic would be the right

(09:58):
word, but that was somethingelse I was thinking of the whole
time, like what an opportunity,I guess to tell your story.
And then I really thought, youknow, I guess to tell your story
.
And then I really thought, youknow, I want to get your guys's
takes on what you thought ofsort of the um, the, the, what
would you call it?
Like the um, the behind thescenes sort of stuff at the end,
almost um, because a lot, of, alot of people in the platoon

(10:21):
chose to remain anonymous.
So I don't know what you guysthought about that or if you
felt, felt like um movie neededthat at the end, or or just kind
of any more thoughts sort of onthe film.

Speaker 3 (10:31):
I love when movies have stuff like that.
I'm a huge, uh, I love, I'mjust a huge fan of war movies in
general, especially like anonfiction.
You know, it's absolutely oneof my favorite genres.
And you mentioned active valorearlier and I just I just had to
shout out that movie because Ihaven't seen that in forever,
but it's so good.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
Mendoza was the stunt coordinator on that film Really
Wow.
Military consultant.

Speaker 3 (10:56):
Yeah, there's a lot of like real military people who
are the actors in that movie.
But anyway, yeah, I I I thoughtI really liked you know them,
kind of showing like making itmore personal towards the end.
I was reading that you knowthis movie is a love letter to

(11:22):
Elliot from Ray, because Elliotdoes not remember anything from
that day and Elliot is the, theman whose legs were really
gnarled in the movie, the, theman whose legs were really
gnarled in the movie.
Um, he took the brunt of the,the explosion, aside from a
couple, one of the other guys,um, and so I I did love like
seeing the behind the scenesstuff, like the photos of them
together with ray and elliot,and then elliot with his actor I

(11:42):
can't remember, I don't knowthat guy's name.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
Cosmos something, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
Um, I thought he was amazing.
I I liked that there was like amixture of like well-known
actors and then some other guysthat in here that I'd never seen
before, or maybe they have beenin stuff, that were just kind
of flew under the radar a littlebit.
Um, but yeah, I I think that,like them, I reading that they

(12:10):
chose to be anonymous because Iread that they a lot of them are
still serving um and so thatthey just kind of wanted to keep
things still a little bitprivate um yeah that's the other
thing.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
This, this is not that long ago yeah, no when,
when this film's taking place.
So it does have almost one ofthose um like zero dark 30 hurt
locker, feel, kind of feel to itwhere you know us as
millennials watching this, I wasthinking like this is happening
during my lifetime, you knowI'm 16 years old, when, when
this stuff is happening, um soreally heavy too to kind of

(12:44):
experience it in that light, youknow, it's not like watching a
vietnam movie or something setum kind of before we had come of
age.
So yeah, just for someone who'snot connected to the military
at all, except for somegrandparents who served, like
still such an emotional,emotional watch oh, yeah, really
yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
I teared up multiple times and, and, uh, and again,
just like when those guys, whensam and elliot especially, are,
you know, just screaming umbecause their legs are chewed up
.
It's, it's, it's visceral.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
It felt so real, I did love that, because I feel
like we don't really see thatoften there's a lot of like you
know there's maybe like the guysare breathing through it and
stuff, but you don't really seethat like a lot of that
vulnerability of like that to meis like I feel like that's very
real, of like these men and,like they mentioned, there was
something burning in them andtheir legs and that one and then

(13:43):
the other guy from um the teamtwo came in and he was like yeah
, that's the phosphorus, and itwas just like that little detail
kind of like showed like whatlike really further explained
what they're feeling, like thistheir legs are not only just
absolutely torn to shreds, butthey're also feeling like

(14:06):
they're on fire it made it likea full sensory experience
watching the movie, hearinglittle details like that and
then the two guys that were likemanning the doors I can't
remember what their names are,but there was one they both
looked so they were in shock.
Obviously I thought that the twoof them were amazing, like just
their facial expressions, andthen the fear.
There's something like reallyjarring to see, like grown men

(14:31):
who are especially in themilitary, so rattled like that.
I think that's why I get reallyemotional when I watch movies
like this, because you, justlike I, obviously can't even
imagine going through somethinglike that.
You just like I, obviouslycan't even imagine going through
something like that and seeinglike the the facial expressions,
the emotions and like the fearon their face, you know.

(14:52):
And then some of them cry andlike will polter's character is
just trying to hold it togetheryeah, he's like I'm fucked up, I
can't make decisions.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, that's a great scene.

Speaker 3 (15:02):
Yeah, and his guy comes and is like, has anyone
checked on you?
And he's just like no.
I mean it's just, oh my gosh.
I thought these guys wereincredible.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, it was pretty wild.
I was listening to an interviewwith Ray Mendoza and he said
that Kit Conner, the guy whoplayed Tommy, he's one of the
guys covering the door.
He said that Kit Conner, theguy who played Tommy, he's one

(15:36):
of the guys covering the doorand kind of is the surrogate for
like fear, because it wasTommy's first like inaction
mission in real life and likethat's kind of how everyone
reacts the first time they're incombat.
And yeah, he said Kit Connerwas able, because it's not like
he had a monologue or anything,he's just doing this with his
face and his facial, uhexpressions.
Another crazy thing about thisfilm it was shot in 15 days and

(15:59):
everything that you see onscreen is either one, take one
or take two.
Um, so they, they thought aboutdoing like unknowns or drawing
straight from the military forthe cast, like act of valor in
the beginning.
But once they decided they were, they were going to, uh, you
know, make it, you know, for acheaper price and and

(16:21):
streamlined like that, theydecided to go with with actual,
uh, known actors, um, but uh,pretty amazing that you know, I
think they spent maybe five toseven days rehearsing and then
you know, and then they go shootfor 15 days and like it's
pretty wild that, uh, these guyscame together as a cohesive

(16:44):
unit and you can really see andfeel that on screen.
But then also to to just be inlike this really intense, you
know 96 minute movie and and beable to do that in one or two
takes Pretty, pretty remarkable.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
Well, there's something that feels so
authentic about it, and we got aglimpse of some of that
blocking in the rehearsal stuffat the pre-credits scene there
and I can imagine as one ofthose actors when you have the
real guy or you have someonelike Mendoza there with you and

(17:24):
you can kind of see he's likewhen you're coming, you know
there's no language attached toany of it, no audio or anything
but when they're talking aboutum, or they're showing them
coming out of the house and thenstorming the, the street and
and where you would be lookingand you know you're up, you're
down, you're, you're left,you're right, and then you go
and I was like the behind thescenes please release this on

(17:45):
physical right, because thebehind the scenes stuff I'm sure
is going to be prettyphenomenal.
I will also say that I feel likethere can be something about a
movie that is so real like thisthat then almost begins to feel
exploitive, because I'm like butthere there can be.

(18:09):
I didn't experience it with thismovie, but just thinking like
because these are people's reallives that we're watching, like
this isn't necessarily here forour entertainment, no, it is
much more there for um, I think,just like awareness and and
their own self-doing, so that,like I kind of mentioned earlier

(18:29):
, like if Mendoza and Garlandwanted to come together to make
this not only for Elliot but forfor all of their brothers in
the military and the families ofthose who have served and who
have lived through real combat,like I think it was so
successful and and done in a waythat felt so.
I like saying something liketasteful even doesn't really
feel right because again, likethey're just showing the the

(18:53):
real accounts.
Like it says at the beginning,this is from their memories and
so like I love something likeblack hawk down, one of my
favorite movies, um, you know,of all time, and I'm sure a ton
of people feel validated by bythat movie.
But that just feels way way morehollywood it feels a lot more
hollywood and and that movie isstill so tactile as well, um,

(19:14):
but I think it goes back to whateric was talking about with
just like the screams and beingtrapped in the downstairs, like
living room of of this apartmentthe whole time, and how
propulsive it all is, because inin a movie like Black Hawk Down
, where there are those sceneslike when they're trying to um
operate on on the one guy'sartery and they're trying to

(19:34):
pinch it like that scene is sointense.
But that's, that's really onescene Like the, the segments of
this movie that involve justlike some of the most intense
military warfare in terms oflike gore and and what the human
body can look like after it'sbeen, you know, thrown through

(19:54):
the ringer, like the, the makeupand the effects on on the, on
especially elliot's legs oncethey have taken the surgical
scissors and cut off his pants,my goodness, like really really
impressive filmmaking and, interms of you know, the, the

(20:15):
technical achievement that thatwent into this from the entire
crew yeah, another thing mendozahas said is, like you know,
that a lot of military moviesalso try to tackle, like, the
why, where this, this exercise,was all about not telling the
why, but the what.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Unique in in in a genre that has been around since
the beginning of movies.
Um, because there is usually a,a cutaway scene to, you know,
the ceo in a in a war room, uh,saying we got to get our guys
out of there, or something likethat, and where this?
This is just literally aboutbeing trapped in a house yeah,
and uh yeah, and and and and thefact that the movie ends.

(21:07):
I thought the movie you know theway it ends, where they just
they get in in the tanks, in thebushmaster and the bradley's,
the bradley's and they, and theyjust drive away, yeah, and they
just leave and everything justgoes quiet.
You know, some of the uh, ofthe people that they are
fighting come out into thestreets, yeah, and it's just

(21:30):
like oh, wow, yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
It's over.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
It's over.
Who knows, we probably never goback to that place at that time
in this war, in this conflict.
So just again like a reallystark and kind of unique way to
end a movie as well yeah, um,okay, so.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
So kudos to, to everyone involved, and and alex
garland especially, because whathe has done.
And now it's funny because wedecided with we decided to do
this episode format before wehad seen the movie, and, and so
we were putting all our chips onthe table here and banking on
Garland to deliver, after whatwe had seen from him last year

(22:12):
with Civil War.
So he's back now and that'sreally the premise of this
episode.
And it's so interesting Becausewhen you really dive in and
start to research differentdirectors who have hit a rough
patch in their career, it'sdifficult for them to reinvent

(22:32):
themselves in such a short time,and that's what Garland has
been able to do.
So his career, of course,starts with his film or his
novel, the Beach, being adaptedby Danny Boyle back in 2000.
And that becomes, um, you know,a bit of a cult classic, I
would say.
And then he works with Boyleagain, writing the script for 28

(22:53):
days later, which, by the way,trailer played before, um, my
screening, at least uh warfare.
And as soon as I saw it, as soonas I knew what it was, it was
immediately like look down, lookaway, focus on my popcorn um do
not watch anymore.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
I had a hard time not watching I mean I, I looked
down a lot for it too, but Ithis is the movie of the year.
I mean honestly I'm saying itright now this is the summer
movie.
Quick.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
People are saying uh side tangent to, and by people,
I mean honestly, I'm saying itright now.
This is the summer movie.
Quick, people are saying uhside.
Tangent to, and by people, Imean me.
I think we've stopped doing redband trailers at r-rated movies
, because not only was the 28days later trailer very violent,
so was the ballerina trailerthat I saw.
I believe the word shit wassaid in the ballerina trailer,

(23:47):
and there was something elsethat I saw as well that involved
a lot of blood and I thought tomyself there's no red band
before the movie starts herewith the MPAA.
Yeah, but you know what?
There's something about seeingthe red band come up from the
mpaa before you're getting a redband trailer.
That used to get me so excitedyeah it really did um and so,

(24:13):
yeah, I don't know no, no, bringback bring back the red band
trailers.
If we've taken them away fromr-rated films, at least you know
, I wouldn't be surprised ifthey're still showing, like
they're still on youtube, I'msure yeah, or like if it's a
pg-13 movie, like if you'regoing to go see, you know, megan
2 in a couple of months.
And then there's going to be atrailer for something else that

(24:33):
comes out that's rated r andit's going to be a red band
trailer.
Then you still might get the Idon't know the traditional
warning.
I digress, um and so then.
So then garland becomes afeature film director himself
with Ex Machina back in 2015,.
Really becomes one of thepillar films for the A24

(24:55):
distribution and productioncompany, right when they're
starting to make a name forthemselves.
Follows that up withAnnihilation, adaptation of a
beloved novel from the SouthernReach trilogy, and at that time
he is one of the hottest newdirectors in Hollywood and
making pretty interestingscience fiction thrillers.

(25:16):
And then 2022 happens and he'sworking again with a 24 and
comes out with the film men.
Now you're just going to haveto trust us on this.
Erica, I know you've read a lot, but men was so not good.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
I don't doubt it.
That's why I haven't seen it.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
Which is the I think you know like, as, as someone
who loves Alex Garland movies,it is maybe good just to protect
yourself from that experienceyeah, we went like with a group
of friends group of friends,because it was a big deal we
were.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
There were women too.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
Uh, yeah, we were very excited and we all walked
out so angry um, like immediate,I think maybe one or two of us
tried to maybe kind of say, oh,it wasn't.
It was like okay or something.
I remember being like that waspretty bad.
That was like I don't think Ican defend that in any way.
And the narrative started tobecome that Alex Garland is

(26:17):
really interested in doing onething, it seems in his films
which men all of a suddenbrought to the ugly forefront,
which was he is subjecting allthese different female lead
characters in his films totrauma, to try to tell us how
women experience and processtrauma.

(26:38):
Because you then look back atannihilation and that is a huge
theme of that movie.
You look back at ex Machina,and it's a huge theme of that
movie.
You look back at ex machina,and it's a huge theme of that
movie, and it got to be a littleconfusing, upsetting,
disappointing.
All these different, like notso great feelings were attached

(26:59):
to alex garland movies, at leastfor me.
Uh, diminishing returns then onannihilation and next Machina,
whenever I would see it getbrought up because of what
happened with men, and I don'tknow is am I crazy for thinking
this, or is this where we werein 2022?

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, no, I think.
Uh, I remember ripping thatmovie, uh a good one, and and
you know, honestly, he stillcan't really help himself in
Civil War a little bit A littlebit.
There's one moment where hekind of goes there.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
Are you talking about the dress scene?
Yeah, when he's like if KristenDunst would just put on a
pretty dress this would all beokay.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
And yeah, so yeah's, it's really interesting.
But overall I think civil warand and now warfare, and even
though you know he's aco-director on warfare and he's
come out and said like this wasthe best experience directing a
movie I've ever had because myrole was so diminished- you know

(28:14):
, I I it kind of feels like heis, was I I, I, I, I I.
I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I movies,
uh, anymore, uh, and, andbecause he's enjoyed writing for
other directors this year, um,but you know, I I do think in
2022 it was kind of just likeit's over and you know, at least

(28:37):
, at least we got the beach andannihilation every now and then,
right, yeah, so his work on thescripts maybe for 20 days later
?
yeah, yeah, so, um, but yeah,you know, civil war then comes
out and is a huge hit in my, inmy eyes, it really brings him

(28:57):
back to the forefront and thennow with, with warfare, you know
, if he decides to come back tothe director's chair which I I
hope he does now, right where in2022, I I wouldn't have really
cared how do you feel about allthis, erica?

Speaker 3 (29:14):
if that man stops directing I will kill myself.
I'm just kidding, I, I don'tknow.
I mean I'm I'm glad I haven'tseen men, I guess.
But now I am curious to see it,just out of curiosity, because
at this point I am so on boardwith him as a writer, as a
director.

(29:34):
I was thinking about thisyesterday during Warfare.
He is scratching the itch forme, especially when it comes to
horror, because this is horrorlike cause, this is like horror,
but not treated.
I mean, it's like I.
I described warfare as like warhorror, you know, and like even
civil war, felt like a horrormovie to me.

(29:57):
And I'm like this is I.
I he's combining two of myfavorite genres.
I mean, he is like I lovedannihilation.
It was weird.
It was like just something I'dnever seen before.
Ex machina is amazing, um, butyeah, I he's like.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
I just was like really sitting there thinking
about it yesterday, justthinking I'm like this guy is
like giving me exactly what Iwant in film right now, and so I
would be devastated to see he's, he's, yeah, he's, he's
threatened to not do moviesanymore because that it's so
hard to get him made and so hardto do what he wants to do, his

(30:39):
you know his way, and all thatstuff he, he did.
So on this interview I waslistening to, um he, he did say
there is something that he mightdirect but it's unfilmable for
at least a year um so if whichis not a challenge, he is um shy

(31:00):
to approach because that's whatpeople said about annihilation
forever.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
That right, you cannot adapt this book into a
movie.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
Yeah, how that makes sense so, yeah, whatever,
whatever that means I don't know, I don't know what unfilmable
means, I, maybe there's a placehe needs or something I or an
actor or something, I don't knowum, but yeah, he, he has now
said multiple times that youknow, I remember when civil war
came out, he, he was saying I'm,I'm co-directing my next movie

(31:28):
with uh warfare and then afterthat I'm, I'm done directing um.
So that would be a huge loss, Ithink.
Now because he is, he's back,yeah, I do feel like, and
especially, you know, it'sinteresting to think about this
exercise because directors do gothrough ebbs and flows, right,
and like, not everything youmake is going to be a hit, not

(31:49):
everything you make is going tobe good, and I would hate to see
to lose him after only, I think, six films that he's directed
Um, because a it's it's just waytoo early, like I think.
I think he's got legs thatcould.
He could become one of theseold modern masters, right.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
Well, and what he's done with Civil War and warfare
and I think that this is a hugepart of his comeback is that he
has he's learned a new pitch,worked in the off season on some
stuff and he seems to have leftthe science fiction um, you
know, like trauma, dump femalelead story arc behind and he's

(32:34):
turned his attention to and ofcivil war.
I think is kind of the perfectlike Goldilocks marriage of of
letting that go, still havingKaylee Spanian, kirsten dunst at
the forefront of that film, butreally leaning into these
visceral, high-paced, reallyintense, incredible
craftsmanship like war moviesand no one is really making

(32:57):
films like that anymore, and sohe has a nice little corner sort
of carved out for himself nowyeah, I mean I would love to see
him go back to some sort ofscience fiction thing, I mean
I'd be a little nervous, butsure, and and totally I, and I'm
not talking about likeannihilation 2 or anything, but
yeah, I mean he wrote sunshinetoo right he did write um.

(33:19):
I don't know if he wrotesunshine and it's obviously a
daniel boyle film, right?

Speaker 3 (33:23):
um, but he did write.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
He did write sunshine , and he also wrote dread, yeah,
dread solid dreads, great, uh.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Yeah, I would love to see him go back into some sort
of science fiction, whether it'sin space or just some sort of
dystopian future which again,like we're gonna kind of see
that with with 28 months, years,years, uh, later.
And you know he's alex garland.
I'm sure he was on set like forthat film, I you know who knows

(33:54):
if he got to maybe direct asequence or something.
But um, but yeah, I, I hatethat he's like threatening yeah
not directing anymore.

Speaker 3 (34:04):
You did say, like you made a good point, he's still,
he feels really new.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
Like.
To me he feels like a reallylike young, like like new
director.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:15):
You know, and I'm like listening to you say this
and I'm like I'm absolutely not.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
I mean it would be like if Ari Aster, robert Edgars
also said I'm done after fivemovies.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
Yeah, it's like no, no, no, Hold on a second.
Like you, to me it just feelslike he's found his footing with
, like, civil war and warfareand I'm like I would like more
war movies please Like I don't.
I mean I was I had the same likeargument with myself yesterday
too.
I'm like I want to see likegreat, now we have like the next
great like war director, youknow.

(34:49):
And I'm like no, he's acreative man, like he can do
whatever, like let's see him dosomething else.
But I mean selfishly, I woulddefinitely take more Civil War
warfare stuff, like I wouldhappily take one of those every
year, like you know.
But um, I, I think him inscience fiction, I I'd like to

(35:10):
see that too.
You know I um just going backto that, I don't know.
I mean he's really like it justfeels like he found his footing
and I am not done.
Well, yeah, not even close.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
The other.
I mean, and hopefully you know,even if he doesn't direct, he
at least continues to write,because he's such an
accomplished writer and really aa super talented writer.
Um and so to to be both thatand also to direct.
You know, five out of your sixmovies are fucking banners.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
Like and was a showrunner for Devs, a great
television series.
Devs was fantastic, yeah.
So the reason why we mentionall this and why we're
celebrating this moment here forAlex Garland is because it is,
like we said, less common thanyou would think for a director

(36:03):
and I like the way Max put itEverybody has kind of your, your
bumps in the road or whatever.
You have movies that are lesssuccess successful than others.
But there's a lot of examplesover the course of the last
hundred years of movie makingwhere once you do hit a rough
patch and you have a movie flop,you really don't get a chance

(36:25):
to to come back and to have yourcivil war into warfare moment,
where then the three of us canget together, people around the
country can get together and saythey're back, like we're so
back, and so I have just like afew examples here of of people
recently who haven't gottenanother chance since they've had

(36:48):
something flop and we're on areal, real hot streak and we
just haven't heard from themsince.
And then maybe guys who areclose to coming back, um, and
and then we will get to ourlists of people who we feel like
have pulled off what AlexGarland has accomplished here
but feel like have pulled offwhat Alex Garland has
accomplished here.
But um, and actually I'm goingto I'm going to take it back to
to maybe the first, best exampleof this Cause I did a lot of

(37:11):
digging and found a director bythe name of Martin Breast.
Does this name ring a bell toeither of you?
I've heard this name, martinBreast.
So here are the films thatMartin Bre breast made in the
80s and 90s scent of a woman,pretty good, beverly hills, cop,
classic meet joe black,midnight run.

(37:32):
These are all really reallygood, strong films.
And then in the early 2000s hemakes a movie called gili and
has basically never been heardfrom again and gilly, of course,
one of the most famous bombscritically, box office, audience
wise of all time, and it's areally good case of how one

(37:55):
movie can derail your entirecareer.
Now, more recently, we've seenthis with guys like Andrew
Dominick who, coming off of theassassination of Jesse James by
the coward Robert Ford and thengoes in to killing him softly or
maybe killing him softly camefirst and then assassination of

(38:16):
Jesse James, but was tagged aslike a really cool art house
director and then a couple ofyears ago makes blonde art house
director and then a coupleyears ago, makes blonde and that
movie fails and andrew dominichas now kind of disappeared,
been real quiet.
Um, noah bomback, a directorwho's been working for decades
and has a storied career and I'msure is doing just fine, living

(38:39):
his best life with greta gerwigand writing with her and still
thinking about and planning tomake movies in the future.
However, since white noise hasbeen real quiet and we haven't
really seen what's going to,there's no news of what's next
for Noah Baumbach, so that's alittle bit concerning Chloe Zhao
coming off of a lot ofsuccessful independent films,

(39:03):
then gets her shot at nomad landand now say what you will?
We certainly have about nomadland and that film's overall
success.
However, she wins best directorthat year at the academy awards
and then follows that up withthe eternals, and now it's like
when are we going to see chloezhao again?
Um, tough break for.
And then this hurts me becauseI'm sure he is also doing just

(39:28):
fine and doesn't need to pick upa camera ever again.
However, um, selfishly, I wantto see what else peter jackson
has in the tank.
Yeah, but coming off of thelord of the rings movies, when
he's on top of the world, andthen he goes into king kong, a
movie that we love and that Ithink is universally pretty well

(39:49):
respected.
But then he makes the lovelybones in the three hobbit movies
and has been quiet ever since.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
Well, and now I'm sure he's good, he's, he's gone
into like documentary, right,like he did the world war one,
they shall not pass documentary.
And then he does the get backBeatles documentary, which are
both huge, but you're you'retotally right Like we haven't
seen him in the director's chairof a narrative big high fantasy
film or or night not even highfantasy film, or or not not even

(40:21):
high fantasy right.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
Heavy link creatures is a fantastic film from the 90s
, go back and do more.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
Yeah, right, yeah.
I would love to see peterjackson come back, but you know
he's he's just making models andfucking new zealand, and that's
what I'm saying he's probablyso happy, but selfishly, where
have you been?

Speaker 1 (40:35):
yeah, um, and and that's not to say that the
because the hobbit movie stillmade a ton of money.
So they're, quote unquotesuccessful.
But if that, if those go downas being like his, his final
movies, his, his final projects,it'll be too bad.
Yeah, and then.
And then we have a couple ofguys here who I think are close

(40:55):
to having their moment, or theirmoments, right around the
corner.
They've already shown us thatthere may be back on an upward
trajectory after a low point,but we have to see it twice,
kind of like what we've now seenwith Garland, where it wasn't
just like a flash in the pan.
Oh, you're back with Civil War,but then warfare isn't as great
.
So those directors that I'vewritten down here are Ben

(41:17):
Affleck, who was cranking therein the 2010s 2010s.
yeah, and then made Run by Night, Run All.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Night Live by.
Night Live by.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
Night.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
It's so bad.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
It's really bad.
It's so unfortunate and thenkind of goes away for a while
but then comes back with Air twoyears ago and I really enjoyed
Air.
I think a lot of people enjoyedair.
So if we get Ben back in thedirector's chair, I think that
hopefully we can have an AflacAssance.
And once again, once again, wellhe's done some acting wise,

(41:51):
he's done some writing wise, butto get him fully back as a
director, and there's beenrumors for a long time about him
directing a movie about themaking of the film Chinatown.
That would be a narrative filmand I think would be really cool
.
Uh, gore Verbinski someone whowe defend on this pod um till

(42:13):
the day we die is who, who wewill defend on this pod till the
till the day I die is is reallyclose, I think to to his
comeback.
He has a movie coming out thisyear but after the pirates of
the caribbean films the firstthree, which are amazing, um,
and then, uh, some other reallyfun stuff there.
He did the american remake ofthe ring, like.

(42:34):
Look up his filmography.
Rango is really cool, like asan animated film.
But then he made the lone Rangeradaptation and that tanked his
career Really did, but then hecame back with a cure for
wellness and then we haven'theard from him since a cure for
wellness, and so hopefully his,his movie that comes out this
year will be good, and then itmight be too early to tell.

(42:57):
With this one Me personally, Ithink she's in kind of a tough
spot right now, but hopefullycomes back.
Uh, next year is emeraldfinnell, because promising young
woman was so good, like one ofmy favorite movies of the decade
, and then salt burn just feltso derivative and just such a

(43:18):
carbon copy of so many otherfilms that have come before it,
namely something like theTalented Mr Ripley, and I know
she has a movie coming out in2026, which hopefully brings her
back.

Speaker 3 (43:30):
Wuthering Heights.
That's the film.
Yes, I'm in.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
Margot Robbie yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
And Jacob Elordi, I know is back in that, but I
think after Saltburn we're in alittle bit of a rocky spot.

Speaker 3 (43:42):
You think so.
You think you don't likesaltburn.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
Nope um, so yeah, those are any other people that
you feel like kind of fit thebill.
Those were the names that I had, or or that we could put into
different parts of this piechart of like had it and lost it
.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
A hall of shame, like uh-oh, or like I have close I
have some old guys who, likethey, just might be too old to
come back.
But you know, immediately Ithought of my beloved john
carpenter.
Uh, the ward is the last thinghe has directed.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
That movie is not good, despite having my girl
alicia it.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
Um and uh was actually made, I believe, here
in Washington.
Uh, the ward, um, and you knowhe, he actually has been,
because it's some sort of Ithink it's the things what 40th
anniversary this year, um that'sAmber heard who's in the ward.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
Yeah, yeah, amber heard um.
That's Amber Heard who's in theward.
Yeah, alicia Cuthbert.
Yeah, amber Heard.
Tough moment, tough moment inhistory.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
And so he's kind of been out at different
conventions and festivals and hehas kind of said that he has
interest in making another film,which would be great.
Apparently he's going to scorebonjour, horror movie um, which

(45:03):
you know is good for him.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
Uh, to maybe, maybe get the the gears running again
well, and he is also really old,so I don't know.
And cody both, his son, codycarpenter, did the score for the
first david gordon greenhalloween film and that score
still rips.
It's not the original, but it'sexactly what you want from a
re-imagination.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Right.
So I would love to seeCarpenter get one more bite at
the apple here and try and notleave us with the ward.
John McTiernan is someone whocame to mind predator, the
diehard movies in the nineties,13th warrior you know there's a
there's a fan base out there forthat, but then he does

(45:42):
rollerball oh, which is deankane a huge flop which is tough
a remake of, like a beloved 70skind of sci-fi action movie yeah
, and it was just not, it was I.
I just don't think he could havedone that movie justice in 2002
or whatever that was I'mlooking it up, right, he does he

(46:05):
does do another movie afterthat, called basic, which is a
sam jackson john travolta likemilitary thriller which is not a
bad film.
Pretty good little cat andmouse movie um chris klein is
the lead of rollerball deancain's brother.
Um, but yeah, uh, john mcterranis is someone who, like you know

(46:27):
, in the 80s and 90s was a aplus director.
Uh, made huge movies and justhasn't again kind of leaves with
a bad taste.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
Um, and then my, my main person, uh, is this who
you're gonna spotlight,spotlight, let's see, erica, do
you have anybody who you werekind of kicking the tires on, or
people that you think have lostit and haven't really had their
comeback yet?

Speaker 3 (46:51):
I'm waiting for david wayne to come and make then
another good comedy.
For me it's been.
I think his last movie I'mlooking it up came out in 2018.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
Which one was that?

Speaker 3 (47:07):
A Feudal and Stupid Gesture.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
Did you see it?
I've never seen it.
Okay, so a little bit of a.
Yeah, I don't know it.

Speaker 3 (47:13):
Yeah, but David Wayne directed one of my all-time
favorite movies, Wet HotAmerican Summer.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
They came together.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
They came together, wanderlust.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Which we still thank you for yeah you're welcome and
role models.

Speaker 3 (47:29):
Those are, in my opinion, his four.
I mean, he doesn't have a lotthat he's directed.
It looks like he's directed sixor seven movies directed.
It looks like he's directed sixor seven movies, um, but I am
learning that he has directed aseries called mr throwback which
premiered on peacock last year.

(47:50):
Never seen it.
It's a show, um, so I'm not sureit's a real show yeah, it is a
show, but, um, yeah, I'd love tosee him.
I mean, he's like he's come outwith some like just his sense
of his humor in these movies,because he does write a lot of
that stuff too.
I would like to see him.
I'm like you, you've got more,you've got more fire under you,

(48:12):
like let's see it I also one.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
One last little slice of the pie here before we get
into our, our filmmakers that webrought to the table here, is
that this is this is alsodifferent from just taking a
really long break and like ahiatus, to where we don't know
what Todd field is doing for 15years and then, after little
children, we don't know if we'regoing to get anything.

(48:37):
And then we get tar, and thenwe get Tar Right and same with
Terrence Malick, where it was 20years between his last film and
then coming back with the ThinRed Line, and then obviously,
like we're so back after theThin Red Line and so, but we
were never really, we were justgone, we weren't like in a bad
spot.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
I think it's also really interesting to think
about, like when this happenedto someone like Scorsese, right
Like New York, new York, afterhours, you know, keen of comedy,
we're all considered flops.
Sure, now two of those movieshave been completely reclaimed
after hours.
And keen of comedy, um, butthen, like good fellas was like
the, the comeback, the, the, youknow the return.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
Um, so we are kind of prisoners to time.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
Yeah, a little bit Right, so like you know, some of
these movies in the next 20years may may become the next
after hours or cane of comedy.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
Um, okay.
So who wants to go first withtheir director?
Who?
Who came all the way back froma bad place?

Speaker 3 (49:42):
I'll go, yeah.
So I struggled with this littleassignment for a while, but I
realized there's.
Wes Craven is a perfect exampleof this Perfect example,
example perfect example.
Yeah, so his um, his directedfeatures start with the last

(50:03):
house on the left in 1972.
I mean an iconic horror movie.
Um had a really great remakelater on, actually, that I
enjoyed um, and then he goes onlike a pretty hot streak for a
second with the hills have eyesto like to come out of the gate
with those two, I mean trulylike to really like.

(50:25):
I mean he was setting the tonefor horror back then.
I mean doing stuff that not alot of people were doing.
I think the hills have eyes isan incredible series.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
Um, it's terrifying um I love that remake too, the
remakes are so good as well umhe just for those two movies
there in the 70s too, when a lotof the other stuff that was
happening on on maybe a morelike global prestigious scale
you think of like the exorcistgetting nominated for best

(50:57):
picture and and then you havethe Omen and some other stuff,
and I know there's other likegrimy stuff, like dirty, gritty,
really hardcore stuff that'scoming out in the 70s, like
Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
Of course have eyes were reallyso influential for for not only

(51:22):
what would come further orlater in his career, but also
just for setting the tone of ofthat um, kind of like grindhouse
yeah style um there in the 70sI agree, they're both.

Speaker 3 (51:30):
They're very raw, like, like you said, gritty
films, you know, kind of like hewas doing something back then
with horror which is amazing.
And so then after that he had acouple of movies I have not
seen Stranger in Our House,deadly Blessings, swamp Thing

(51:50):
and then we have and I don'treally consider that his total
fallout just yet, because we dohave a nightmare on elm street
which is like hello he literallycreated one of the most iconic
villains in horror history withum freddy krueger, and then
after that, like the year afterthat, we have hills, have eyes
too, which again, like this, iskind of where we start to see a

(52:14):
little bit of the dip in thecareer.
So throughout the late 80s iswhere things kind of went south
for him.
Um, we had um in 86, deadlyfriend 88, the serpent and the
rainbow, all right, but prettygood, I ride for that it's so

(52:34):
hard it's

Speaker 1 (52:35):
weird, it's fucking weird I haven't seen I think it.
I think what did we do aranking?
What did we do on wes a longtime ago?
I think we did do a rankingthat, that one's way up there,
it really is so a lot of theselike yeah, I think probably I do
agree, though, that this iswhere the dip starts to happen,
really after the serpent in therainbow yeah, and then so
shocker.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
And then the people under the stairs which, I
believe, got pretty roughreviews.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
A little bit of a cult classic that's been
reclaimed.

Speaker 3 (53:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
Not that successful of a film.

Speaker 3 (53:04):
I don't think and that's kind of like when I was
doing a lot of this research isI wanted to know.
Like you know, not only didthey fall off, it's mostly like
a box office flop, but also likecritically like you know the
people were just not about thismovie back then.
You know, I think you know someof these movies could
definitely be.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
You know you could ride for them like years later
as being like a West classic,for sure, but Well, just to from
where he has already come from,with the last house on the Left
and the Hills have Eyes andcreating Freddy Krueger and
Nightmare on Elm Street.
Like we are definitelydeclining in quality.

Speaker 3 (53:45):
Exactly Because, I mean, it's not just like he had
some like some really good hits,like you are making history in
horror.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
Yes, you know, I mean so, well said.

Speaker 3 (53:54):
Especially like especially.
The gap between people underthe stairs and hills have eyes
is large but even a nightmare onelm street, it's it.
This, that's like no one.
That's a household name I meanand it's just such a classic 80s
horror I mean like literallyhistorical, like what he did

(54:17):
with that, but I think, as likea real horror fan, like hills
have eyes is like that's roughyou know, but, anyway.
So after the people under thestairs that was in 91, we have
94, west craven's new nightmare,um, and then, uh, 95 vampire in

(54:37):
brooklyn.
So then, obvious.
So we're obviously like in amassive dip.
But then 96, our beloved iconicscream does it again I mean
does it again with ghost putstwo, two villains now in the
pantheon of all-time greats itreally is crazy to think that
like somebody like Wes Cravendid it not once, but twice with

(55:02):
two Like you will see thesecharacters in Halloween stores
for the rest of all time.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (55:09):
Like that's crazy to have created two household
iconic villains that little kidsknow forever know.
I mean, what a comeback likewhen I saw, when I found this
after doing my like looking upall these directors, and I was
like, well, this is the comebackstory, in my opinion.
Like I mean they're stillmaking scream movies today, yeah

(55:31):
um, so yeah, he had scream oneand 2 come out simultaneously,
96 and 97.
He had a movie called Music ofthe Heart, not sure what that is
.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Meryl Streep yeah, that's a Meryl Streep.
She's like a drama teacher or amusical teacher.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
Yeah, a music teacher , okay.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
So insane, just like the weirdest little non-West
Cravenven west craven movie I'veI've ever seen.
I remember you know what it wasdiscovering that it was fucking
.
It's a weinstein movie, it'smirror max, yeah, so just huge
payday, I'm sure yeah, probablyprobably if and yeah and you get

(56:15):
to work with meryl streep yeah,pretty cool but one of the
oddest outliers in anyfilmography in history Totally.

Speaker 3 (56:24):
So then, after that, in the 2000s, we have Scream 3,
Cursed which.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
Release the Kraven cut of Cursed.

Speaker 3 (56:34):
I've been saying this for so long.
But then we had Red Eye, whichI think red eye did pretty well
in theaters.
Um, I really enjoyed it when itcame out.
Um, so that one I you coulddefinitely argue that maybe
there was another like littledip after scream.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
No, I agree with you.
No argument for me not verygreat either.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
I I think really after scream 2.
Scream 2 still a lot of fun,but we are just kind of like
playing the hits and that's sortof why a new nightmare, even
though a new nightmare has been.
That's like scream beforescream, right.
That's when he first starts todabble with this like meta, meta
context of of a movie within amovie and being aware of pop
culture, um, and and of thefreddy krueger character himself

(57:18):
, much, much like how theGhostface Killer becomes like
meta context with the stab filmswithin the Scream movies.
But again, scream 2 is justplaying the hits.
And then Music of the Heart,scream 3, cursed, which is not a
great movie that I still readfor reasons unknown, because I
haven't seen what's supposed tobe actually a great movie.

(57:39):
Um, that I still read for it.
For reasons unknown, because Ihaven't seen what's supposed to
be actually a good movie.
No one has.
But then I I do agree.
Red eye is like we're backagain yeah, red eye was good.

Speaker 3 (57:48):
He has two, uh two other movies right after that,
um, which are well, there's a.
There is a six-year break inbetween Red Eye and his next
film, which is my Soul to Take.
I feel like I've seen this, butI also don't know, like I'm
trying to remember.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
It's about like a coven of Of like I don't even
know what you would really callthem.
It's kind of like they'revampires, they're like undead, I
don't know.
I remember watching it,rewatching it.
Saw it when it first came out,then re-watched it for our
exercise that we did on him acouple years ago.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
It's not good um, and then his last film is scream 4
2011 the second, the second bestscreen movie yeah, right, again
another little dip and back uppretty great.
And then, yeah, unfortunately afew years after that he passes
away.
So rip to the horror king.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
I mean honestly, um and someone who is so good at
reinventing themselves yeah andstaying current you know, didn't
get stuck, much like howgarland has reinvented himself
here with these war movies.
Craven is able to come out ofthat grindhouse 70s um, you know
, just like making movies on thecheap and then is able to work

(59:04):
with some somebody like new linecinema and do the big hollywood
uh production, but but do it ina way where he gets to create
west or, uh, freddy krueger andand really make a name for
himself with within the brandingof of a studio.
And so yeah, he was, he was alegend, he is a legend.

Speaker 3 (59:24):
Scream and a nightmare on Elm street have a
very similar vibe.
You know, we've got like theteen, uh, like the high school,
like Wes loved killing teens.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
I mean Wes loved killing teens.
I mean, let's call it how it is.
Last.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
House on the Left.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
Yeah, the Coven or whatever that movie was.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
That's teens too.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
Yeah yeah.
Wes was fantastic and I thinkagain, just a great example of
someone who had a long careerand shows Alex Garland that you
can have dips.
You can have ups and downs, sodon't just hang it up, please.
I hope you're listening.

(01:00:05):
I'll go next.
My guy also kind of probably astudent of Wes Craven, someone
who came up through the horrorgenre is Sam Raimi, and again
someone who has had multiple thehorror genre is, uh, sam Raimi,
and and again someone who hashad multiple dips and comebacks,
um, but he opens up his careerwith with six pretty good movies

(01:00:28):
with evil dead.
Evil dead to dark man, army ofdarkness, uh, the quick and the
dead and a simple plan, allpretty high, highly rated on
letterbox above a 3.5.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
Um, and then, and also movies that like, I think,
people like they were beloved atthe time and still are like
especially that the BruceCampbell ash trilogy there, but
then have become, yeah, like ashin the evil dead and everything
right.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
That that that franchise has spawned here in
recent memory like really showsthe legs also you know kind of,
you know evil dead, the evildead, three evil dead movies,
very horror inspired, but likedark man is like this weird,
like neo noir superhero movie,quick in the dead.
Is this western uh with, withleo uh, I believe leo's in that,

(01:01:23):
yeah, and a simple plan is likea crime caper movie.
Um, then he does for the love ofthe game, uh, and the gift yeah
which you know according to thenumbers, are some of his lesser
works I really like the gift.
Uh, yeah, even though, like I,works.
I really liked the gift Uh yeah, even though, like I think
we've talked about the giftbefore like Keanu Reeves as a
bad guy, clay Kate Blanchett asthis medium in like the South

(01:01:48):
kind of an interesting film.
But then then he reachescompletely new heights by taking
on the Spider-Man uh serieshere in the early twos with
spider-man and spider-man 2,which you know so so, for love
of the game and the gift is whenyou're kind of like, yeah, has
he lost it?

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
has he, has he lost his fastball?

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
yeah, um, but then again, you know, reinventing
himself and going into a genreeven though he kind of dabbled
in it, in dark man, kind of abrand new genre for him.
And then he, he, you know,slips on the banana within this
genre with spider-man 3, whichat the time was hated, uh, is

(01:02:33):
still regarded as like a areally bad superhero movie and
and a meme movie.
Now, right, like evil peter islike dancing, is like the one of
the memes out there, um, andand it's like, oh, he, he might

(01:02:53):
be done and that's in 2007 andlike it's it could be over for
for sam, uh, because that was ahuge movie that did no business
or did bad business, was hatedby critics.
But then two years later hegoes back to the genre that that
you know he started in withdrag me to hell, and it's it's

(01:03:13):
classic sam ramey material andit's just like we are.
We are back.

Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
We are back now however, I've never seen drag me
to hell drag you.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
Yeah, you got to see drag me to hell.
Really really good fun movie.
Justin long um is yeah, yeah,uh, allison loman, who, like
that, blows me away.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
You've never seen it.
That's such a fun blind spot tohave yeah filmography.

Speaker 3 (01:03:40):
It's so good I love sam raimi too yeah it's, it's
it's again.

Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
It's much like the evil dead movies, like it's the
perfect mix of, like comedy,horror, grossness, some great
behind the scenes stuff in thattoo.
Um, and then I I've never seenmovie, but I remember when it
came out and, as the Wizard ofOz expert on the pod, what is Oz

(01:04:05):
the Great and the Powerful andhow bad is it?
Because that movie again, onceagain, was just a gigantic flop.
And you've got James Franco inthe middle of it, mila Kunis,
whois, who you know again, like,was a star at the time, but
like this was a a tanking jobfor her as well.

(01:04:26):
Um, huge miss there, huge miss.
Why they don't do fucking,what's it called?

Speaker 3 (01:04:35):
uh, what's it?

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
wicked at that point instead of instead of this weird
cgi prequel.
Um, really interesting, uh, butagain a huge miss.
He does go back into marvel andhe does dr strange multiverse
of madness which one of the moresuccessful middling movies
right yeah, middling uh reviews.

(01:04:58):
I mean it has Touches of SamRaimi.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
Oh, that's not the original.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
Nevermind, no, okay, no this is the the second one.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
Okay, uh, the original is the one people
really like.
Yeah, the original one.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
people like that's Scott Derrickson.
It does the original.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
He'd be good.
He's another jerk for thisexercise.
Yeah right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
And so yeah, so okay, it's an okay movie.
Now we need to see, though doeshe have it?
Can he come back from Oz theGreat and the Powerful 2026,.
We've got a movie coming outcalled Send Help.
I'm seeing this.
I had no idea I'm looking atthis right now.
Survival horror film Survivalhorror Rachel McAdams, Dylan

(01:05:37):
O'Brien, Dennis Haysbert Our guy.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
President Palmer.
So we could be so back.
We could be so back in 2026.
Yeah, okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
And Dylan O' so back we could be so back in 2026,
yeah, okay, yeah, and dylano'brien is gonna have a moment
here in 2025, um, coming outwith a movie coming out of
sundance.
Uh, so his star may be on therise he's one of the perfect
time.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
One of the best parts of saturday night is totally so
like he's.
Listen, you're talking about mymaze runner, so he's, he's
always in a good place so, yeah,I think sam ramey is is uh
poised for a comeback here to todo it again, even yeah, to do
it again yeah again, right, yeah, because he, he did it, did it
in the mid-2000s, for sure um,which is a lot like my guy where

(01:06:23):
my guys had a few dips actuallyand is poised to to maybe be so
back here in 2025.
Surprisingly you you knowscorsese's really interesting
you bring him up, I feel, like alot of high profile um, kind of
like legendary directors.
At this point you could findlittle little spots in their

(01:06:45):
career, right, um, but but Ithink sometimes the name, the,
the brand of a directoroutweighs almost any sort of
stigma that they may haveattached to them because of
their failures that they'veexperienced in their career.
And for me I was surprised tosee that spike lee really

(01:07:08):
embodies that.
You know, he's somebody that Ithink is just really well
regarded as as this masterfilmmaker of independent cinema
who came up in the ninetiesthere, one of the Sundance
starlings kind of um, and andsomebody who has just always
made really good movies.
Well, guess what?
That's not really the case, umand it it at least it hasn't

(01:07:29):
been the case throughout hisentire career.
So I mean he, he really makesit big with Do the Right Thing
in 1989, of course comes on thescene and that really starts a
run of of great movies for himfor like five years, six years
because he goes Jungle Fever,malcolm X, crooklyn and Clock
clockers, which leads him allthe way up to 1995.

(01:07:51):
Those are all at least fourstar films, if not like four and
a half five star movies, youknow malcolm x and clockers, so
good, um.
And then in 1996 to 2006 hegoes on a 10-year run of movies
that are good but not great.
So there's ebbs and flows inhere.

(01:08:11):
Girl six and get on the bus notthat successful.
He got game though.
And then summer of sam, followedby bamboozled and 25th hour.
There's some great movies mixedin there.
Um, he got game and 25th hourespecially, I know bamboozled
and summer of sam have theirfollowings as well.
Hour, especially, I knowbamboozled and somewhere with
sam have their followings aswell.

(01:08:32):
And then he has she hate meless successful, but kind of
like a fun, weird dark comedy.
Um, and then inside man withdenzel, which is is another like
four and a half star film, inmy opinion.
And then we start to hit thehave we uh-oh like, have we Um
moment after inside man, wherehe has miracle at St Anna which

(01:08:53):
I think has a moment at, mighthave a moment of revival, uh,
coming up.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
Oh, I cause I, I, I feel like and it's interesting,
it didn't happen with the fivebloods, yeah, but because we're
going to get a spike lee moviesoonish you think that's when
the people are going to be.
I think that could be one thatpeople go back and be like, oh
no, he was, he was just aheadinteresting, yeah, interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
Um, he follows that up, though, with red hook summer
not a good movie.
And then this gets really tough.
These three movies and this iswhere, like it might shock you
to believe, but like spike lee,from 2013 up until he comes back
in 2018, like not a gooddirector, not making good
choices.

(01:09:40):
Like, again, the public personaof him being courtside at
basketball games, the world'sbiggest knicks fan and new york
sports fan.
Like always in the public eyeand always someone who is going
to be so well respected and beasked to present, you know,
awards at the Oscars or or havea moment doing something.
It was not for his currentcontributions, though, to to

(01:10:04):
modern filmmaking during thistime.
Red hook summer.
The old boy remake just a hugemess such a big miss, don't ever
like even spike, like justnobody fuck with park chan.
Wook films like, just why wouldyou do that?
Um.
And then the sweet blood ofjesus, which I need to watch

(01:10:25):
this movie again because I canremember this was like I.
I rented this movie.
This was like at the fadingmoments of when you could still,
um, like, find stuff in storesto rent or whatever in 2014 and
just not a good movie about aguy basically becoming like
possessed by, by these religiousspirits, um, to do, to like,

(01:10:49):
and then murders ensue orwhatever.
Really not good.
And then shy rack, which I saw,shy rack at the grand.
I'll never forget thatexperience.
Went with a friend and we bothshout out, cody larson and we
were both like thinking thismovie's going to really have
something to say about theviolence that's happening in
chicago and it was just such abig miss, it it is like it and

(01:11:12):
it feels so weird to say thatlike a spike lee movie is tone
deaf but like it tries to kindof be like a musical at times.
It tries to do so much um and itis.
It is one of his leastsuccessful films in my opinion.
So we've really fallen off thecliff at this point when we're
talking about like malcolm x anduh, do the right thing and 25th

(01:11:37):
hour and inside man, like thehighest of highs that a director
can experience and we're reallyin a bad place here.
Like it hurts me to say, but hewas really really in a bad
place and needed something likeBlack Klansman in 2018.
So bad.
And you could tell what amoment it was.
This comeback for Spike Lee.

(01:11:58):
He wins his first yes, hisfirst Academy Award for the
screenplay of this film.
An incredible moment where SamJackson gets to be the one that
presents it to him on stage.
They embrace, they hug.
It's this huge moment.
You know, like I don't know,it's like a.
It's like a commentator insports, not trying to have bias

(01:12:22):
if it's a nationally televisedgame or something like that.
Like that's what you know.
A presenter at the academyawards or any award show is told
like you're.
You can't really show too muchemotion.
You know, a presenter at theacademy awards or any award show
is told like you're, you can'treally show too much emotion.
You know, when you go out therejust present the award or
whatever sam jackson but theychose sam like it seemed like a
foregone conclusion that thiswas going to be spike's moment
and it was just a moment ofelation, like such a great

(01:12:45):
moment, um, prince had justpassed away, so spikes in this
all purple suit, like justlooking amazing, a huge moment,
um.
And that was like, uh, oh,we're so back.
Like usually, like you know, ittakes two right for us to like
prove it, and he does prove itwith the five bloods, um and a a
couple of years later, and thatthat was.

(01:13:05):
We needed the five bloods.
I'll, I won't, I'll neverforget, in the middle of
lockdown, that movie coming toNetflix and being one of the
better films.
It was like straight to videothat we could watch at home
during that time.
So black Klansman 2018 to fivebloods 2020.
We're so back.
We've had this huge Oscarmoment and it's like, okay, now

(01:13:25):
spike's just always been spikeagain and that's why I feel like
he will forever be a legend andremembered for those moments
and not for Red Hook Summer orthe Sweet Blood of Jesus or
Chirac or these real low pointsthat he experienced in his
career.
And it was pretty.
It was like it was a bell graph, like it was a bell curve when

(01:13:45):
it happened, like there weren'treally too many, like blips
where it comes back up, Likewhen he was down, he was down
and, and so now what I'm reallyhoping is after black clansmen
and after the five bloods, it'sbeen five years and now again
we're playing with fire herebecause when he tried to remake
a park chan wook film a classicthat was maybe as bad as it ever

(01:14:09):
got for him with the old boyremake.
And now we're remaking an AkiraKurosawa film.
Highest to lowest is the spiketitle, highest two, the number
two, lowest, and this is aremake of the Kurosawa film High
to Low.
And I to say I'm'm nervouswould be putting it lightly,

(01:14:33):
because if this movie's bad,this is really gonna suck.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
Yeah, like it's really it can't be, though,
because it's denzel right.
He usually doesn't miss whenhe's with denzel this is very
true.

Speaker 1 (01:14:42):
But then I'm, there's like some stunt casting in here
, though we have like asap rockyis on the like just people who
have I spice, people who havenever acted before, people who
I'm like, I I again like, ifit's stunt casting and you're in
it for one scene is maybe likebecause, high to low, great
great movie with like hostageinterrogation, like a really

(01:15:04):
great contained film where, like, depending on what these
celebrities and I I use thatterm in placement of like the,
the term actor like depending onwhat they're asked to do in
this movie, I think it could beokay.
Um, it could also not be okay,though, and then we're like in a
dark, bad place again.

(01:15:24):
So, but I mean, like, fromwhere we stand right now, in
spike, we trust, and Denzel andspike we trust.
So I think we're in a goodplace here right now.
We're back, we like with spike,we are so back right now.
So I'm just happy to like.

Speaker 3 (01:15:40):
What a time to be alive it is 824, but it looks
like it's going to come out onApple TV.

Speaker 1 (01:15:46):
I did not know that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:52):
Regardless, I'm excited to revisit the works of
spikely because I don't thinkwe've ever done a, a traditional
deep dive like hall of fame.
Spikely, yeah, uh, episode.
So uh, I look forward to thatweek for sure, absolutely, um,
yeah, but man, yeah, you'reright, playing with fire is so
true to try and do a kurosawafilm yeah, um, so I had two

(01:16:14):
other people who I was possiblythinking about doing for this
exercise.

Speaker 1 (01:16:19):
I feel like we could do ridley scott every episode
and just not get tired of it, ormaybe we would at some point,
and so I was like we'll keepridley on the bench.

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):
Another person who, though, goes up and down
constantly For sure.

Speaker 1 (01:16:34):
And who like hindsight being 2020, we can now
say like some moments weren'tactually as bad as they felt in
the moment, because, even though, like I've always loved the
Counselor or Alien Covenant,these movies have now completely
been reclaimed and would beconsidered bright spots in his
career compared to somethingelse.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
Kind of a down moment currently for him, right, I
mean Gladiator 2 does businessand is okay but, it's nothing
like Gladiator, right Like thehighs of Gladiator at least.

Speaker 1 (01:17:08):
No, absolutely not.
And then catherine bigelow wasone who I almost pivoted to at
the last minute because the waythat she came back, um, after
like I think it's called likek-19, the widow maker, a
harrison ford movie.

Speaker 2 (01:17:22):
And then she had a sub movie.

Speaker 1 (01:17:23):
Yeah, yeah, it is a submarine movie, isn't it?
Um, and then she had anotherfilm prior to that which were
like far cries from where shewas with with uh, point break
and strange days and really wasexperiencing a lull in her
career.
And then what brought her backwas like military action, you
know, based on a true story kindof stuff, with the hurt locker

(01:17:46):
and then zero dark 30.
And I mean like I'm so happy tobe back in a place where
Catherine Bigelow someone wholike doesn't work as much as we
would like them to because sheis such a talented filmmaker but
we are in a good place with herright now where, at least
within you know the last 15years, we've gotten to really,

(01:18:07):
really good Catherine Bigelowmovies.
So it just an such aninteresting thing because
hollywood you always hear abouthow it is it can be and sorry,
as you're about to move there,but like it can be such an
unforgiving town when, when youfuck up and and so many huge,
successful directors who havereached the mountaintop, who

(01:18:29):
have had a seat at the table, nolonger hear their name get
called because of one bad movie.
So happy that Garland's back.
Happy that all of the peoplethat we brought to the table
here today are back or at leastwent out at a good place.
Shout out Wes Craven and EmmaRoberts and all of their work on
Scream 4.
But yeah, I don't know.
And Emma Roberts and all oftheir work on Scream 4.

(01:18:53):
But yeah, I don't know.
When you get attached todirectors and then they have a
comeback like this, it is likean athlete or someone who you
follow in sports and you get tosee them traded to a new team
and then they experience successin a new way.
Or a musician, after a coupleof bad albums, have a big
comeback and be able to go backon a world tour.
So I don't know.
So we're all tied to success insome way or another.

Speaker 2 (01:19:16):
Everyone loves a comeback story.
Everyone loves a comeback storygreat way to put it.
Um, I have a couple of newsitems.
Okay, if you want to do.
Some people are saying, ah,okay, uh, people are saying that
and I can't remember if we'vecovered this art already or not.
I don't think I've talked toyou guys about it, but david

(01:19:39):
fincher has announced his nextfilm.
It will be at netflix, of courseyeah, of course uh, it will be
written by quentin tarantino andit is a universe.
It's not a direct sequel, butit is in the same universe.

(01:20:00):
You can't even talk right nowonce upon a time in hollywood
starring brad pitt as a stuntmanstuntman as these what?

Speaker 1 (01:20:08):
cliff, cliff, booth yeah um, in absolutely insane.

Speaker 2 (01:20:14):
I can't believe.
Who are your sources?
The sources are the.
Are the dailies, like thehollywood reporter?

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
do you subscribe to the dailies?
Oh, yeah, yeah, okay, that'swhere I usually get my people
are saying um, yeah, this issomething that is happening.

Speaker 2 (01:20:35):
Uh, apparently, um, you know, I I guess, I guess
we're gonna get a sequel to onceupon a time in hollywood,
written by quentin, directed bydavid starring brad, on the
netflix streaming service.
How do we feel?

Speaker 3 (01:20:53):
I don't know, I don't like netflix.
Sorry, I don't know, but I'm,I'm, if it's true, I'm very
intrigued.
But why are we putting it onnetflix?
Why, well?

Speaker 1 (01:21:06):
I've I've never agreed 100% agree.
Start with that.
However, there's nothing thatDavid's done for Netflix that
has been bad.
That's true.
Mindhunter, goaded Mank, loveit.
The killer, amazing.
So I feel like he's one ofthese directors that is kind of
like whatever fuck it You'regoing to make me not have to.

Speaker 2 (01:21:28):
Oh, he obviously doesn't care yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:21:30):
You're going to make kind of like whatever, fuck it,
you're gonna make me not have to.
He doesn't care.
Yeah, you're gonna make me nothave to put five different
financiers before the title ofmy film awesome thanks for the
blank check netflix, yeah.
So he is kind of there's anasterisk there to him and and
working with netflix.

Speaker 2 (01:21:43):
I feel like, because we've seen it, we've seen it be
well and, and I think I thinknow it's just he might just do
this the rest of his career andyou just kind of have to accept
it that, like Fincher, mightjust be a Netflix guy the rest
of his life.

Speaker 1 (01:21:55):
Which means we don't get physical releases of his
movies.
Which means people don't talkabout him longer than like a
week after they come out.

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
Which really, really sucks, but like he obviously
doesn't give a fuck about thatand like we're losers for giving
a fuck about that, but whatever.
Uh, but the content of this isjust like so odd it's really
surprising uh, that, tarantino,you know, apparently this is

(01:22:24):
apparently this script, I guess,is what kind of started out as
tarantino's movie critic scriptthat like was leaked yeah, okay
that became, I guess, as he keptwriting, it became more about
cliff booth, for some reason,and now and again like not a
direct sequel, but in in thesame, in that same universe, I

(01:22:50):
guess in that same world.

Speaker 3 (01:22:52):
Like a spinoff kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:22:54):
Yeah, I guess a spinoff would be the right way
to say it, but just a really,really odd algamation of people
together.
Can Fincher do Tarantino?

Speaker 1 (01:23:08):
Well, here's what I think is most important to ask
ourselves Can Tarantino writefor Fincher and when?
I think of some of the morelike intense moments, not only
in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, but throughout you know
Tarantino's career at large,like I think, of the basement
scene in inglorious bastards, oror even in once upon a time in

(01:23:33):
hollywood when cliff does go tospawn ranch and it turns into
like a horror film for 10-15minutes, yeah, and it's super
intense.
like could he have, could therebe the stamina to, to to write
uh, something like twohour longfilm like that that then Fincher
gets to take all of his reallyadept and skillful vision of

(01:24:01):
doing something all the way fromSeven to the Killer, and in
making it work, I think so, yeah, I think so.

Speaker 2 (01:24:10):
Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 1 (01:24:11):
It was announced during cinema con, but with that
as the premise.
I don't know how do you feelabout that, because I could see
them doing that for like anoriginal story or taking maybe
another part.
And you know, like causeTarantino, obviously a huge
history buff but loves to do therevisionist history and do and
write things his own way.

(01:24:31):
So I almost feel like if they,if they were teaming up and it
was, and it was something likethat, where it was like oh,
they're going to do somethinglike in the French revolution or
whatever, like fuck it Cool,sign me up.

Speaker 2 (01:24:42):
But but I don't know, but in like sixties Hollywood
with with cliff booth as a stumpman, I mean, I guess I guess
fincher can probably do it,because he did something like
adjacent to it with mank right,um, but it's just such a weird.

(01:25:06):
I I just feel like it's such aweird project for him to be like
yeah, I'll go play in someoneelse's sandbox.
And also for quentin to letsomething like once upon a time
in hollywood, which he wrote abook for, yeah, he's, you know,
he he wrote tv episodes for likedevelop the whole world and

(01:25:29):
then to hand that over.
I mean, I guess I'm glad it'sfincher that he's handing it to
um, but yeah, just gonna bereally interesting if fincher
can do pop like that, because oror is it just like cliff booth
becomes?

Speaker 1 (01:25:47):
like is it grimy?
Yeah, right, yeah I don't knowokay, what else you got for us?
That's, that's enough.

Speaker 2 (01:25:55):
I mean, that's the biggest thing that I've been
thinking about, for a coupleweeks now, wow, um, but yeah, it
was so funny because the newscame out on april 1st at cinema
con and so many people thoughtit was fake, like so many people
were scared to report it.
Um, but uh, people in intarantino's camps, people in

(01:26:18):
fincher camps, have come out andsaid, yes, this is a real thing
wow so we have that to lookforward to.

Speaker 1 (01:26:29):
Yeah, if it happens, if it that's going to be like
the elephant in the room everyweek.
Now I'm just going to be likewhat's the update?
Hey, you over there.
We need to address that.
That's so weird, yeah, huh.

Speaker 2 (01:26:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:26:43):
It could go down.
I mean, listen, I think I saidthis back post Oscars um, or
maybe it was the Bong Joon-hoepisode but where it was like
how can we don't just get thesesuperstar team up movies behind
the camera where it's, you know,like a person who's super hot
with sound and a person who'ssuper hot, um, editing and

(01:27:03):
writing and all that stuff.
Tarantino is one of the mostaccomplished screenwriters of
this generation.
Yeah.
So there you go.
Fincher's one of the mostaccomplished, yeah, film.
And then, if kurt baxter doesthe edit, and, depending on
who's behind the camera, is dpand who's going to do the score,
like we might have our all-star, you know.

(01:27:23):
2013 golden state warriors here.

Speaker 2 (01:27:26):
It is like kevin durant joining the warriors.
It's so strange um, wow, wild.

Speaker 1 (01:27:33):
Okay, um any final thoughts.
You got any news for us, erica?

Speaker 3 (01:27:38):
no tv has a chokehold on me right now so people are
saying that erica's jumping ship.
You watch, you watch the studioit's so good it's amazing it's
probably I have what sixepisodes left to look forward to
.
I've already, like I caughtmyself during the fourth episode

(01:27:58):
feeling like actual depression,thinking like wait, this is
going to end someday.

Speaker 1 (01:28:05):
Oh, no yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:28:06):
It is like actually it's.

Speaker 2 (01:28:10):
It's catnip.

Speaker 3 (01:28:10):
It's giving me like exactly what I'm looking for in
comedy right now, you know, andit's it's feeding my soul Berg
fan, this is just right up myalley, it just screams me.
And then on top of that you'rethrowing it like in real, like

(01:28:34):
real life Hollywood drama, rightlike I think it's so fun to
watch, like you know, likeMartin Scorsese, that Martin
Scorsese episode, and then likethe Zac Efron and Olivia Wilde
episode where it's like there'sall these like if you don't
really pay attention I don'tmean to sound like pretentious
when I say this but if you'renot really like tapped into like

(01:28:56):
hollywood drama, I feel like alot of stuff will go over your
head.
You know, like with the oliviawild episode, them kind of
making this nod to her beinglike awful to work with and
that's kind of a whole nod tolike the don't worry, darling
drama that happened and it'sjust creative.
And there's this like it's sosubtle and like just that like

(01:29:19):
really like like nuanced comedyand I'm obsessed, I mean I, I I
can't remember what his lastname is, it's like Bern
something.
Ike his best friend on the show.

Speaker 2 (01:29:33):
Oh, Ike Bernholtz yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:29:34):
He is so funny, Him and Seth together.
Just this chaotic duo.

Speaker 2 (01:29:39):
A guy who usually is like a, you know someone who
comes in and throws one inning.

Speaker 3 (01:29:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:29:45):
Like is finally getting like a co-lead here and
like, yeah, he's blowing me awaywell, and they were in
neighbors together.

Speaker 3 (01:29:53):
Yeah, um, as was zach zach efron it's just funny to
see all these like littleconnections that you obviously
know that seth is pulling allthese strings to get these
people in here, where I lovethat, where it all feels like an
inside joke.
You know, like the whole show sofar has felt like one big
inside joke for fans of them,and I'm it's so brilliant, I'm

(01:30:15):
so glad that I signed up forapple tv finally, because I'm
also like binging severance too,which is I'm like curious about
it.
I'm not like it's not my cup oftea fully, but I don't know,
dude, I'm just like in deep withtelevision, like obviously
riding the high off of whitelotus, but then the last of us

(01:30:37):
just started, which you know I'ma, I've played the game several
times and, um, yeah, I don'tknow, guys, fuck movies, let's
talk about tv.

Speaker 2 (01:30:49):
We've done tv episodes in the past.
Maybe we'll have to.

Speaker 1 (01:30:52):
Might be time, yeah, maybe time revisit um well, yeah
, we'll, we'll think about that.
Uh, the movie calendar doesfill up a little bit, but though
there will of course be some,some down weeks.
Um, much like how we discussedebbs and flows earlier on this
episode I'm sure we could fit inTV here soon.

(01:31:12):
We do get sinners, though, nextweek.
I know we teased that at theend of last week's episode.
However, that was a limitedrelease.
It now goes wide this followingweekend, so really excited to
finally get to see the new RyanCoogler film a Western with
vampires.

Speaker 2 (01:31:28):
People are saying Googlers best film, loveler's
best film.
Love to hear that, love to hearthat um, and you know there's
been some.

Speaker 1 (01:31:36):
There's been some good like um I I don't know.
I don't know if this becomesaction horror and I know that
we've had some sci-fi horror,some social horror, um already
come out this year.
But you know, in in sitting inmy theater earlier today, I saw
a lot of really good trailersfor some scary movies coming up,
and so maybe this starts therun of of kind of some of that

(01:31:59):
stuff that we had last year in2024, of like good scary movie
week after week after week.
So that would be really nice,um, any, any, uh, anticipation,
extra anticipation that wedidn't say last year or last
week for centers I'm just.

Speaker 2 (01:32:13):
I'm revved up for hayley steinfeld covered in
blood I'm excited yeah, I'mexcited for like um revved up
suck me dry, hayley.

Speaker 1 (01:32:26):
Okay, I'm on my neck, yeah sure I know josh allen's
coming for you, bud careful okayI knew what you meant.

Speaker 3 (01:32:41):
I was just kidding um , I can't.
I'm really excited for somesouthern fucking gothic.

Speaker 1 (01:32:54):
I'm gonna make you a shirt for the San Juans this
weekend that says suck me dry,haley Steinfeld.
Oh my gosh, that's awesome youknow what?

Speaker 3 (01:33:08):
hell?
Yeah, so until next time,please follow.
Excuse the intermission on.

Speaker 1 (01:33:09):
That's awesome.
You know what Hell?
Yeah.
So until next time, pleasefollow Excuse the Intermission
on Instagram, the three of us onLetterboxd to track what we're
watching between shows, andwe'll talk to you next time on
Excuse the Intermission, wheremovies still matter.
Bye, thank you.

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