Episode Transcript
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Tessa Sourceley (00:00):
Welcome to the
Deep Dive.
We're here to help you getinformed on, well, some pretty
complex topics.
And today we're diving intowhat really motivates executive
talent in Japan.
You know, it's a supercompetitive hiring market over
there.
Is it all just about thepaycheck or is there something
deeper going on?
We've got some reallyinteresting material to work
(00:20):
with today.
There are excerpts from reportslike Driving Executive Talent
in Japan, another calledJapanese Executive Recruitment,
a Cultural Crossroads, and alsoa Fascinating transcript from a
Bloomberg podcast on YouTube.
Stick around because some ofthe cultural stuff is quite
surprising.
We'll even touch on, let's say,a hard sell recruitment tactic
(00:40):
that really didn't go asplanned.
Chase Stratton (00:41):
Yeah, exactly.
Our goal here is to get pastthe headlines, you know, want to
pull out the key insights, thereally important bits to help
you understand what's happeningin this really dynamic
environment.
We'll connect the dots for you.
Tessa Sourceley (00:53):
Okay, let's get
into it.
Compensation, it's always partof the picture, right?
But the way executives are paidin Japan, that structure seems
to be changing quite a bit.
It's not just about thosetraditional fixed salaries
anymore.
Chase Stratton (01:06):
That's
absolutely right.
We're seeing a definite shifttowards performance-based pay
and long-term incentives, LTIs.
Annual bonuses, yeah, those arepretty standard, but LTIs,
things like stock options,deferred bonuses, those are
really taking off.
Tessa Sourceley (01:20):
Okay, why the
change though?
Chase Stratton (01:21):
Well, a lot of
it comes down to pressure from
the Tokyo Stock Exchange.
They're pushing companies toboost corporate value.
and to align what executiveswant with what shareholders
want.
So Japanese companies areincreasingly adopting models
you'd see in the West,especially for roles needing
that global perspective.
Tessa Sourceley (01:39):
Right.
Trying to mirror those Westernmodels.
So what does that actually meanin practice?
I mean, is Japanese executivepay genuinely competitive on a
global scale now?
Chase Stratton (01:48):
That's the
million dollar question, isn't
it?
Or maybe the multi-million yenquestion.
We do still see this globalcompensation gap.
Pay is definitely going up, nodoubt.
Yeah.
But it often still lags behindWestern markets, especially the
US.
But here's the interestingpart, the real shift.
For the top people, a hugechunk of their pay is now
variable.
(02:08):
Think like a ratio of maybe oneto two to four.
One part base salary, two partsannual bonus and four parts
long term incentives.
That's a big change.
Tessa Sourceley (02:19):
One to two to
four.
Wow.
And just to put some like realnumbers on it, we heard younger
bankers, say associate oranalyst level, might make around
$140,000 a year in Japancompared to maybe $200,000 for
similar roles in New York.
And apparently some investmentbanks in Japan have had to bump
up offers by like 10% year onyear for the last three years
just to stay competitive.
Chase Stratton (02:39):
Yeah, the
pressure is definitely on.
Tessa Sourceley (02:40):
But here's
where it gets really
interesting, I think.
Moving beyond just the salaryfigures, there are these crucial
non-monetary factors, aren'tthere?
Especially in Japan.
Chase Stratton (02:48):
Oh, absolutely
critical.
Let's talk about employerprestige and brand reputation
first.
A company's standing, its name,it's not just a business thing.
It directly affects anexecutive's professional
reputation, even their personalstanding.
It carries a lot of weight.
Tessa Sourceley (03:04):
Okay, so the
brand matters
Chase Stratton (03:06):
a lot.
Immensely.
And related to that is culturalalignment.
This often comes up as a toppriority for Japanese
executives.
You have to remember, this is asociety that really values
group harmony, long-termrelationships.
So executives want to besomewhere they feel they fit,
where they can contribute overthe long haul, build a legacy.
For foreign firms coming in,this means really needing to
(03:27):
understand and respect the localways of doing things, consensus
building, hierarchy, that deepcommitment to quality.
Tessa Sourceley (03:33):
So it's really
about that longer view, not just
the next quarter, but buildingsomething lasting.
Chase Stratton (03:38):
Precisely.
That long-term thinking isfundamental Which brings us to
career stability and security.
These are still incrediblypowerful draws.
Even with performance payrising, that traditional idea of
long-term, almost lifetimeemployment still resonates.
People are motivated by asecure path where they can build
(04:01):
those deep relationships andcontribute consistently.
They're generally less likelyto jump ship just for a quick
pay bump.
Tessa Sourceley (04:07):
That makes
sense.
But what's fascinating is howthese motivations aren't quite
the same for everyone, right?
There seems to be a differencebetween, say, international
executives and local Japaneseexecutives.
A
Chase Stratton (04:17):
really key
difference.
towards a shared purpose, forthem taking a role is a serious
(04:50):
commitment.
To the company, yes, but alsoto the people within it.
Tessa Sourceley (04:54):
And that
difference in mindset, it can
lead to some real clashes, can'tit?
We heard this incredible storyabout a Japanese graduate.
He'd already turned down anoffer from a big Wall Street
firm, but then they called himback in, put him in a room with
three managing directors, andfor two hours, they apparently
just hammered him with thissuper aggressive hard sell.
Chase Stratton (05:12):
Oh, I remember
hearing about this.
Tessa Sourceley (05:14):
Yeah, saying
things like, don't take this
company lightly.
Don't mess with us.
You should take this offer.
Just really intense pressure.
And the result, he left feelingexhausted, frankly, a bit
traumatized and actually moresure than ever that he'd made
the right call declining.
Chase Stratton (05:28):
That story is
just it's a perfect
illustration, isn't it?
Those tactics, that aggressionin some Western business
cultures, maybe that's seen asambitious, you know, strong.
But in Japan.
for that candidate.
Huge red flags.
It just showed a complete lackof understanding about the value
placed on respect, on harmony.
High pressure just backfiredcompletely.
Tessa Sourceley (05:51):
A real
cautionary tale.
Okay, let's shift focus a bitto what's happening right now in
the market because it soundslike the competition for top
talent in Tokyo is, well,heating up significantly.
A perfect storm, some arecalling it.
Chase Stratton (06:03):
It really is.
You've got several factorsconverging.
First, the unemployment rate isjust incredibly low.
It's hovering around 2.5%.
That's roughly half the rateWow, 2.5%.
Tessa Sourceley (06:11):
Yeah,
Chase Stratton (06:13):
so it's very
much a candidate's market,
especially if you're skilled, ifyou're bilingual.
It's common for top people tojuggle five, even six offers.
Tessa Sourceley (06:19):
So candidates
have a lot of leverage.
Chase Stratton (06:21):
They absolutely
do.
And that leads to anotherpoint.
the power of headhunters.
Recruiting firms are hugeplayers in Japan.
They're pretty much essentialfor foreign companies trying to
find talent.
And their fees reflect thatoften 30, maybe 35 percent of
the first year's salary.
Tessa Sourceley (06:38):
That's steep.
So what's driving all thisactivity?
You mentioned low unemployment,but what about the broader
economy?
Is Japan having a moment?
Chase Stratton (06:47):
It really seems
to be.
People are talking about amarket renaissance.
You've got inflation finallyreturning after decades,
corporate reforms kicking in.
Borrowing costs are still low,plus a weak yen, making things
attractive for foreigninvestors.
All this is fueling a boom intrading Japanese government
bonds, stocks, lots of foreignmoney coming in.
It's quite a turnaround,really.
(07:08):
For years, Japan felt like itwas playing second fiddle to
China in the region.
Tessa Sourceley (07:11):
And we're
seeing concrete examples of
this, right?
Big deals happening.
Chase Stratton (07:14):
Definitely.
The value of announced M&Adeals over the past year is up
something like 70%.
You have huge deals like ToyotaIndustries potentially going
private for $33 billion SevenEye Holdings facing a massive
$52 billion bid.
And the international banks arescrambling to keep up.
Citigroup's expanding itsinvestment banking team by 15%.
JPMorgan Chase is adding peoplefor capital raising, private
(07:37):
equity too.
Carlyle Group's hiring about 10investment professionals just
for a new Japan buyout fund.
Everyone's trying to build uptheir presence.
Tessa Sourceley (07:44):
Okay, so a
booming market, super low in
employment, but you also haveJapan's well-known demographic
challenges, right?
The aging population.
How does that fit in?
Chase Stratton (07:52):
That's the other
critical piece of the puzzle.
It creates this chronic laborshortage.
You have the aging population,yes, but also a younger
generation that thinksdifferently about work.
They're often more mobile, morewilling to change jobs, and
they value different things.
Work-life balance is huge,meaningful work, making an
impact.
It's not always just about thehighest salary anymore.
(08:14):
We heard about one ex-bankerwho deliberately moved to
venture capital, even if it paidless, because building
companies felt more rewarding.
Tessa Sourceley (08:21):
Interesting.
So how are companies,especially banks, trying to
attract people in thisenvironment beyond just money.
Chase Stratton (08:28):
They're getting
creative.
Raising offers, obviously, butalso things like holding parties
for former employees, trying tolure them back, setting up
alumni networks specifically forrecruitment.
Lots of whining and diningpotential candidates, naturally.
And it's not just entry level.
There's a real need formid-level and senior bankers.
We're even seeing companiestrying to tempt retired workers
back into the fold, especiallybond traders who actually
(08:52):
remember what it's like to workin a market with actual interest
rates, something younger folksmight not have experienced.
Tessa Sourceley (08:57):
Ha, right.
Experience counts.
So for Global firms trying tonavigate all this.
What are the specific hurdlesthey face?
It sounds complex.
Chase Stratton (09:06):
It is.
And one obvious one is thelanguage barrier.
Unlike, say, Hong Kong orShanghai, where English might
get you quite far, in Tokyo'sfinancial sector, you often
really need Japanese.
The ideal hire is often someonetruly bilingual who can switch
seamlessly between Japanesebusiness culture and Western
(09:27):
international norms.
That's a rare skill set.
Tessa Sourceley (09:29):
Finding those
bilingual candidates must be
tough.
Chase Stratton (09:32):
Very tough.
And then there's the wholecachet thing.
Sure, big Wall Street nameslike Goldman Sachs have some
pull, but maybe not quite thesame automatic prestige as they
might have in the U.S.
For a top Japanese graduateworking for a major domestic
trading house like Mitsubishi orSumitomo or one of the Japanese
mega banks like Nomura or Daiwathat could be just as
attractive, they offer goodmoney, international
(09:53):
opportunities, too.
Tessa Sourceley (09:54):
So the
competition isn't just other
international firms.
It's strong domestic players,too.
Chase Stratton (09:59):
Exactly.
And you can't forget theloyalty factor we talked about
earlier.
Tessa Sourceley (10:02):
Right.
That deep-seated culturalvalue.
How does that play out inpractice for recruiters?
Chase Stratton (10:07):
Well,
historically, Japanese employees
have been in incredibly loyal.
Lifetime employment wasn't justan idea, it was often the
reality.
And actively trying to poachemployees from competitors, that
was really frowned upontraditionally.
Now that mindset is changing,especially with younger
generations focusing more onpersonal growth, work-life
balance, impact, but it's stilla significant cultural
(10:30):
undercurrent you have to beaware of.
Loyalty still matters.
Tessa Sourceley (10:33):
This has been,
wow, a really fascinating deep
dive.
It's so clear that if you wantto understand what drives
executives in Japan, youabsolutely have to look beyond
the salary figures.
It's this complex mix of money,yes, but also these deep
cultural values, prestige,stability, harmony, all playing
out against these really dynamiccurrent market conditions.
Chase Stratton (10:53):
Absolutely.
Any successful recruitmentstrategy in Japan has got to be
holistic.
It needs to really understandand cater to the very different
nuanced motivations of bothlocal Japanese talent and
international executives.
You can't use a one size fitsall approach.
Tessa Sourceley (11:07):
So it leaves
you wondering, doesn't it?
Given this unique moment forJapan's market, this
renaissance.
How long do you think thisfierce competition for talent is
actually going to last?
And maybe more broadly, whatdoes this whole situation tell
us about the future ofattracting top talent globally?
Chase Stratton (11:23):
That's the big
question, isn't it?
A lot depends on whether thoseunderlying economic drivers, the
reforms, the investment climatecontinue.
It's certainly a fascinatingcase study in how economics,
culture, and demographics allintersect in the global
competition for talent.
Definitely something worthkeeping an eye on.