September 16, 2025 • 23 mins
What happens when having an open dialogue means assassination?
What happens when staying silent means being complicit to murder?
Charlie Kirk and Iryna Zarutska, both murdered in cold blood.
This isn't just about two voices; it's about what their deaths mean for democracy, free speech, and the cost of losing humanity.
Join me in frustration, while I deliver a podcast I wish I never had to deliver, revealing the deeper meaning of these lives lost and what they reveal about the system that controls the world we live in.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:17):
Welcome to Exhuming the Truth, the podcast where we delve into
the mysterious worlds of cold cases, missing persons, true
crime, and the fascinating science that is forensics.
I'm forensic scientist and criminologist Asha Walther, and
I'm so thrilled to have you withme on this journey as we dance
in the shadows of the world of crime, shining a light on
(00:38):
scientific discovery while becoming another voice for those
who need it most. So grab a drink and get
comfortable while we jump into this episode together.
Hello everybody. Happy Tuesday.
I hope everybody has had a lovely week and a beautiful
weekend. It has been a little bit crazy
over here in Perth, the weather,it's been like storming and then
a nice sunny day and then storming again, which is not
(01:01):
ideal and I cannot wait for the sun to come out and to stay out
for housekeeping this week. I want to touch on my in person
event that is hopefully happening in October slash
November. Now I do not have a date locked
in. You wouldn't believe the knock
backs I've had. This is not new.
(01:23):
I'm not shocked, but I am a little annoyed, but I'm trying
to be calm. This started years ago, really,
when I started working in the family domestic violence space.
I got knocked back and yeah, that kind of just got me.
And I was like, OK, what am I doing?
Just don't even bother. But I think I'm in a headspace
now where I'm like, OK, I'm justgoing to do this.
(01:44):
Like whether you guys accept theevent or not, I've given up on
my own local council because they've basically just, yeah,
kind of said that they don't seea need for my event and that
they have, you know, XYZ that's obviously working so well and
that's why our crime rates are so high.
But anyway, so I've tried other councils.
(02:07):
Actually the other night I actually emailed like 6
different councils in Perth and I'm like, hey, this is me, this
is who I am and this is what I want to do.
It's going to be a free event. I honestly don't see the
trouble, but yeah, I keep getting knocked back.
It's very frustrating but I'm literally willing to do this in
my local park if I have to. I honestly don't care.
(02:31):
It's just disappointing because I do have a lot of people
interested and it's very hard tokeep people in the loop when
there is no loop because I keep getting knocked back.
That's really all I have to say because the other things I was
going to go over in Housekeeping, I've kind of made
the episode about those topics because they are massive,
(02:52):
massive issues right now. There have been requests for
other topics this week, which I will cover Thursday and Tuesday
next week, but I feel like theseones are really important for
right now and I really want to get started.
So let's jump straight into it. You're listening to the cost of
(03:12):
speaking versus the cost of not speaking at all.
What is the cost of speaking thetruth?
What's the cost of staying silent?
I think you guys have a clue what I'm talking about right now
because around the world right now, we are witnessing what
happens when a good person is assassinated for speaking two
(03:37):
names I want at the forefront ofyour mind right now, Charlie
Kirk and Irena Zarutzka. Charlie and Irena both stand as
unnecessary reminders of this exact reality.
This isn't just about America. It's about the human condition,
and it's about what happens whenpeople simply disagree.
(04:00):
Death becomes a life sentence and silence becomes an
accomplice to violence. Charlie Kirk and the cost of
speaking out. A man whose intelligence and
compassion and drive to create change left an impact on so many
lives across the globe, including mine.
(04:21):
And what struck me about Charliewas that he believed deeply in
the power of truth and whether or not you agreed with him and
his many, many views, he lived by conviction, not by fear.
And yet for daring to speak and for daring to createspace, to
open dialogue on conversations that so desperately need to be
(04:42):
had but are never acknowledged, typically due to fear.
He was murdered, assassinated. Think about that.
A human life ended because he spoke, because one person
disagreed. Disagreeing with someone's views
should lead to debate, and that's exactly what Charlie
(05:02):
does. It should lead to dialogue,
maybe even to putting down the mark and walking away in certain
circumstances. But Charlie created a unique
environment where he opened the floor to all walks of life, and
he not only welcomed but encouraged minority voices to
open up, be heard, but also to be challenged.
(05:22):
His death is not only a personaltragedy to his beautiful wife
and children, but it's a warning.
When we start killing people fortheir words, we strip Society of
the very freedom that allows us to grow, to challenge, and to
progress. And if we allow that to become
normal, we aren't just silencingone man, we're silencing the
possibility of change itself. And I want to say Charlie is
(05:47):
somebody who is, you could call him controversial or you like,
there has been a lot online. And I have to say it's
absolutely inhumane. I think is the best word for it
to disagree with somebody's social, religious and political
(06:07):
views. Oh, yeah, there's a motorbike
across the road. I'm so sorry.
I was going to cut it out, but I'm not going to because I'm
deeply invested in this episode.And yeah, but if you disagree
with somebody on any level, it does not give you the right to
take away someone's life. Yes, everybody has the right to
(06:31):
an opinion, but the way that youexecute that opinion matters.
And Charlie executed his opinionwith respect.
He he didn't just open the floorto himself and his own views.
And that's what's different about him.
And that's what we need to admire him for.
He opened the floor to his viewsand he opened it to others to
(06:51):
challenge him and to have a discussion around that.
How many other people around theworld in positions of power
either socially, politically, orreligiously are opening the mic
to anyone and everyone to have an open discussion?
No one. He is the only one or he was the
only one I like. I cannot fathom this.
(07:16):
I did wake up the morning it happened and I saw the video in
its entirety and at first I didn't realize it was Charlie
Kirk. I just watched the video and I
thought shit. And then I thought to myself,
this is not normal. For a start.
This for the human condition, the human brain and our eyes and
(07:41):
our processing system. Like, no wonder we're all full
of such anxiety. It is not normal for you to see
this sort of thing in a lifetimeonce, let alone repeatedly, let
alone on your feed, followed by a nice video of like some girl
wearing a beautiful dress and shoes and going out for dinner
(08:02):
and showing her outfit. It's not fucking normal.
You should not be seeing this. This should not be happening and
social media should have things in place where these things are
not able to be uploaded. It is as simple as that.
It does extend into more complexities such as America and
(08:24):
their gun laws, yes, But Americaand their security, you know,
they have a very dense history in gun issues.
I would like to say securing rooftops at the university and
things like that. Should that have been done?
Yes. But does it make it any more or
(08:44):
less, you know, daft for somebody to go ahead and do
this? Like it just doesn't translate.
You could put all of the measures in place.
The fact that someone still showed up to that event with a
gun with that intention is the very problem.
And people online going off, youknow, on absolute tangents,
(09:05):
we've got people celebrating thedeath.
I'm not even going to give them the time of day or my opinion
because that's just disgusting. Then we've got other people
saying, well, he said, you know,we do need a few deaths from
guns to allow the Second Amendment to still be in place.
And did he say that? Yes.
Does that mean he deserves to die by getting shot?
(09:26):
No, it does not. People are just sick for that.
The other things that I'm seeingis, well, Charlie Kirk was a bad
person. He didn't believe in empathy.
Well, if we're going to use pieces, context is so important.
You guys, if we're going to use quotes, we need to use quotes in
their entirety. We can't just select pieces, you
(09:49):
know, that Go with our bias and share that.
We need to give things in full context.
Now, what Charlie actually said about empathy was he does not
believe in the word empathy. He believes that that's a New
Age term and it's overtaking theword sympathy.
He believes in sympathy, not empathy.
He thinks that we simply becauseempathy means to feel what
(10:11):
another person is feeling and wesimply cannot feel what someone
else is feeling. Therefore he believes in the
term sympathy, that is, sympathising with someone and
feeling pain because you feel bad for them, not saying you
feel what they're feeling. I agree with that entirely.
So to take a section and say, oh, he doesn't believe in
(10:31):
empathy, he's a bad person. It's just awful.
In fact, to take anything negative about someone who's
just been killed and share that,that's also awful.
So I just disagree with that fora start.
And that saying also goes like, if you are in any way
celebrating Charlie's death or you know, saying Oh yes, he
(10:52):
died, but why should we sympathize with him while at the
same time asserting that the deaths of other individuals like
victims in Gaza, you're like saying that that's inherently
tragic. You are literally contradicting
yourself. The principle is either that
human life holds intrinsic valueor it does not.
(11:13):
It's as simple as it doesn't apply to one group of people and
not the next. You can't denounce others for
dehumanizing certain groups and then engage in that exact same
behaviour towards someone you disagree with politically,
religiously, socially, what haveyou.
Like if your position in life deserves respect regardless of
(11:35):
identity or background or belief, and like that's what I
believe and that's what everyoneshould believe, then that
principle has to apply to everyone, even people who have
views different to you. And this is the exact issue in
society. This boils down to a systemic
issue. People can't handle
(11:55):
uncomfortable conversations and people can't respect people if
they oppose their views. And I think that's something we
all need to learn is that it is super important to be able to
humanize somebody and respect them regardless of if they agree
with you about XYZ. Otherwise, it's just not a
(12:15):
matter of principle, but it's just selectively assigning value
to human lives based on your personal choice.
And that's inhumane in my opinion.
And I know you're probably sitting there right now
recognizing anger in my voice, but I am furious.
Like I I was sad and now I'm just mad because I'm
disappointed. And I'm also mad and slash
(12:39):
terrified to raise my children in a world like this, knowing
that there's people like that out there who, yeah, assign
human value based on what they like or what they don't like,
that that's terrifying. I just don't understand how
we're not. Yeah, I just don't get it.
And I'm going to move on to the Cost of Silence and Irina's
(12:59):
story, and I'm going to come back to Charlie in a moment.
Irina Zoritsko's story breaks mein a completely different way,
and it angers me in a completelydifferent way.
Irina Zoritsko wasn't silenced for speaking.
She was abandoned in silence. She was on her way home from
work, on public transport, sitting among other civilians
(13:22):
who sat and watched and turned ablind eye as she was stabbed to
death. Cameras rolled and onlookers
froze. They ignored.
And in her last desperate moments, not one single person
stepped forward to hold her hand.
To say, you're not alone. I am angry, like I am just
(13:46):
reeling. That is a cruelty just as deep
as the knife, but the layers getthicker.
Her killer should never have been given the freedom to be
there in society in the 1st place.
A judge had already set this monster free when he should have
been behind bars. That single decision cost Irena
(14:07):
her life, and yet beyond the legal system failing her, the
only thing we have left as a community, humanity, which I
touched on before, that failed her to.
What does that say about us? What does that say about the
world we're living in? That a woman can just die in
plain sight and the crowd does absolutely nothing.
(14:27):
Those who stood there, they chose silence.
They chose not to act. They chose not to comfort her in
her final moments of life. They are not innocent.
They are complicit. Because sometimes silence
doesn't just allow evil. Silence is evil, and those
people need to be held accountable.
Irina's death is a tragedy of violence.
(14:50):
It's a tragedy of systemic injustice.
But mostly it's a tragedy of inaction.
And this forces us to ask, when someone cries out, will we be
the ones who step forward or theones who stand back and let them
die alone? We have to be the ones to step
forward. Now, I had this discussion with
my mom today as something of much lesser weight.
(15:12):
Much, much, much lesser weight, but something that you never
know. Like things turn bad so quickly.
And I want to take you back to, I believe it was last year now,
I had parked my vehicle in an Akron Bay, which is a disability
parking Bay. I have a valid Akron permit.
I have had one for 14 years now.I'll have one for the rest of my
(15:34):
life because I have a disability.
Now, part of having that is to have that parking, yes, but it's
also so that you don't need to explain yourself.
OK, so you park there and it's like I have a right to park
here. I have my permit.
It's not easy to get those permits, by the way, and you
shouldn't be questioned on that.But ever since I have had one
(15:56):
the I couldn't tell you the amount of times I have been
questioned, yelled at, stared down like what have you.
Because I am a younger person who sometimes when I'm not
wearing my external braces, I look like a completely normal
person. And in fact, a lot of people
with disabilities look like a completely, well, fully
(16:18):
functioning person. I have a good friend who was
abused the same for parking in Akro Bay with a valid Akron who
was in heart failure, you guys. So anyway, back to my story.
This one particular day I had myyoungest son with me.
He was 5 at the time. I hopped out of the car, went
around and got him out and therewas a man who had walked past my
(16:40):
car towards the shopping center but came back.
So he'd seen my car and turned and came back while I had my
child, getting him out of the car, holding his hand and
started yelling at me, calling me a CUNT and a lazy bitch and
what have you for parking there.And should there's people who
(17:01):
actually fucking need that car parked.
Barber absolutely going at me inmy face.
Now I have my young child with me so I didn't want to expose
him to this, nor did I want to expose him to me retaliating in
any way. All I managed to say to that man
was I have a valid pass, please leave me alone.
He continued to yell at me. Now not only was he getting
closer and yelling at me basically nearly face to face,
(17:26):
he was much bigger than me. He's being very aggressive and
there were numerous people watching.
Not one single person intervened.
Came to help me, asked if I was OK afterwards because I was very
visibly upset. I was crying and had my child
with me and they were probably the closest person was maybe 2
(17:47):
meters away. There was other people close by.
There was. I could count at least five
people who were there that couldhave intervened.
Not one single person did and I was more upset by the fact that
people did not intervene than the actual abuse itself that I
later wrote on a Facebook group chat from my local suburb and
said hey, this happened to me today and I just want people to
(18:08):
know like not to judge a book byits cover and also maybe double
check if people have a pass before abusing them.
And also if you're an onlooker, maybe help someone out.
Well I just copped abuse on thatpost being like, well maybe
people are scared to step in, they don't want things happening
to them blah blah blah. And I was like gobsmacked.
I was literally like, I have no other word for it.
I just sat there with my mouth open and was like how Like how
(18:33):
was this life? Like there were other able
bodied men there that could havehelped me or women or anyone to
step in or someone could have got security or whatever or even
just ask if I was OK. And not one single person did.
And now people are abusing me saying that they don't want to
put themselves in harm's way. No one's asking you to put
yourself in harm's way, but there are many, many, many, many
(18:55):
other ways you could help in those situations.
And again, I know this is nowhere near as significant as
Irena, but I I just, it makes mesick to my stomach that this
happened to her and I'm so sorryto her.
I am so sorry that she felt likeshe needed to escape her
(19:16):
war-torn country where she wasn't safe and she felt like
she'd gone to a country of freedom and was murdered and not
only was murdered but died alonewhen it didn't have to be that
way. I could literally go on and on
about Charlie and Irena all day,but I won't.
(19:36):
I'll save you the waffle, but both of these make me sick to my
core. Like 100% Charlie and Irena
stories are polarizing but they meet at the same point.
Failure. Charlie's untimely death is a
failure of a culture that has lost its tolerance, where
disagreement is no longer a conversation but a death
(19:58):
sentence. It's the failure of people who
choose hatred over humanity. Irina's death is the failure of
a justice system that led a dangerous monster walk free.
It's the failure of every singlebystander who chose to sit there
stare. Freeze, ignore and film instead
(20:23):
of stepping forward 2 lives. Two different circumstances,
both revealing the same truth. Systems that claim to protect us
are collapsing, and the people inside those systems are hiding
behind excuses. Judges who make reckless
decisions, Leaders who inflamed division.
(20:44):
Bystanders who stay silent. And yet, accountability doesn't
stop with the courts or the state.
It belongs to all of us. Because when we normalize
violence against those who speakout, and when we normalize
silence in the face of suffering, we become the
problem. Charlie should still be here.
(21:05):
Irena should still be here. And the fact that they aren't is
not just on their killers. It's on the structures that
enabled it. And on the silence that allowed
it. Why does this matter to all of
us? I know they're going to be
people listening to this, thinking that it's so far away
from us that it's not relevant. Wrong.
(21:26):
Charlie's murder tells us what happens when we stop respecting
the power of ideas and choose violence over dialogue.
Irena's murder tells us what happens when we stop valuing
human life enough to step forward, even in the smallest
act of compassion, like holding her hand.
Even if we allow this to keep happening, if we shrug and move
(21:48):
on, and if we scroll past, if westay comfortable in silence,
then we're choosing to accept a world where freedom is punished
and humanity is optional. And that's not just their story.
That's ours. That's all of us.
I don't know about you, but I have children and I am scared
(22:08):
for what the world is going to look like for them when they're
adults. And I want to end with this
because I know one thing is for sure is that had Charlie Kirk
been in the presence of Irena Zarutzka on that day she was
murdered, he would never have let her die alone.
(22:29):
So let that sink in. Thank you for joining us on this
new episode. I hope you have enjoyed it.
Here you can subscribe to stay up to date across all platforms,
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You can help us out by subscribing to our paid
episodes, which are on Spotify, or by making a donation to allow
us to help more families. You can also join in on the case
(22:52):
discussions and make case requests in our Facebook group,
which you can find the link to in our podcast notes.
But as always, stay curious, stay informed, and until next
time, trust your instincts and keep seeking the truth.
Welcome to Exhuming the Truth, the podcast where we delve into
the mysterious worlds of cold cases, missing persons, true
crime, and the fascinating science that is forensics.
I'm forensic scientist and criminologist Asha Walther, and
I'm so thrilled to have you withme on this journey as we dance
in the shadows of the world of crime, shining a light on
(00:38):
scientific discovery while becoming another voice for those
who need it most. So grab a drink and get
comfortable while we jump into this episode together.
Hello everybody. Happy Tuesday.
I hope everybody has had a lovely week and a beautiful
weekend. It has been a little bit crazy
over here in Perth, the weather,it's been like storming and then
a nice sunny day and then storming again, which is not
(01:01):
ideal and I cannot wait for the sun to come out and to stay out
for housekeeping this week. I want to touch on my in person
event that is hopefully happening in October slash
November. Now I do not have a date locked
in. You wouldn't believe the knock
backs I've had. This is not new.
(01:23):
I'm not shocked, but I am a little annoyed, but I'm trying
to be calm. This started years ago, really,
when I started working in the family domestic violence space.
I got knocked back and yeah, that kind of just got me.
And I was like, OK, what am I doing?
Just don't even bother. But I think I'm in a headspace
now where I'm like, OK, I'm justgoing to do this.
(01:44):
Like whether you guys accept theevent or not, I've given up on
my own local council because they've basically just, yeah,
kind of said that they don't seea need for my event and that
they have, you know, XYZ that's obviously working so well and
that's why our crime rates are so high.
But anyway, so I've tried other councils.
(02:07):
Actually the other night I actually emailed like 6
different councils in Perth and I'm like, hey, this is me, this
is who I am and this is what I want to do.
It's going to be a free event. I honestly don't see the
trouble, but yeah, I keep getting knocked back.
It's very frustrating but I'm literally willing to do this in
my local park if I have to. I honestly don't care.
(02:31):
It's just disappointing because I do have a lot of people
interested and it's very hard tokeep people in the loop when
there is no loop because I keep getting knocked back.
That's really all I have to say because the other things I was
going to go over in Housekeeping, I've kind of made
the episode about those topics because they are massive,
(02:52):
massive issues right now. There have been requests for
other topics this week, which I will cover Thursday and Tuesday
next week, but I feel like theseones are really important for
right now and I really want to get started.
So let's jump straight into it. You're listening to the cost of
(03:12):
speaking versus the cost of not speaking at all.
What is the cost of speaking thetruth?
What's the cost of staying silent?
I think you guys have a clue what I'm talking about right now
because around the world right now, we are witnessing what
happens when a good person is assassinated for speaking two
(03:37):
names I want at the forefront ofyour mind right now, Charlie
Kirk and Irena Zarutzka. Charlie and Irena both stand as
unnecessary reminders of this exact reality.
This isn't just about America. It's about the human condition,
and it's about what happens whenpeople simply disagree.
(04:00):
Death becomes a life sentence and silence becomes an
accomplice to violence. Charlie Kirk and the cost of
speaking out. A man whose intelligence and
compassion and drive to create change left an impact on so many
lives across the globe, including mine.
(04:21):
And what struck me about Charliewas that he believed deeply in
the power of truth and whether or not you agreed with him and
his many, many views, he lived by conviction, not by fear.
And yet for daring to speak and for daring to createspace, to
open dialogue on conversations that so desperately need to be
(04:42):
had but are never acknowledged, typically due to fear.
He was murdered, assassinated. Think about that.
A human life ended because he spoke, because one person
disagreed. Disagreeing with someone's views
should lead to debate, and that's exactly what Charlie
(05:02):
does. It should lead to dialogue,
maybe even to putting down the mark and walking away in certain
circumstances. But Charlie created a unique
environment where he opened the floor to all walks of life, and
he not only welcomed but encouraged minority voices to
open up, be heard, but also to be challenged.
(05:22):
His death is not only a personaltragedy to his beautiful wife
and children, but it's a warning.
When we start killing people fortheir words, we strip Society of
the very freedom that allows us to grow, to challenge, and to
progress. And if we allow that to become
normal, we aren't just silencingone man, we're silencing the
possibility of change itself. And I want to say Charlie is
(05:47):
somebody who is, you could call him controversial or you like,
there has been a lot online. And I have to say it's
absolutely inhumane. I think is the best word for it
to disagree with somebody's social, religious and political
(06:07):
views. Oh, yeah, there's a motorbike
across the road. I'm so sorry.
I was going to cut it out, but I'm not going to because I'm
deeply invested in this episode.And yeah, but if you disagree
with somebody on any level, it does not give you the right to
take away someone's life. Yes, everybody has the right to
(06:31):
an opinion, but the way that youexecute that opinion matters.
And Charlie executed his opinionwith respect.
He he didn't just open the floorto himself and his own views.
And that's what's different about him.
And that's what we need to admire him for.
He opened the floor to his viewsand he opened it to others to
(06:51):
challenge him and to have a discussion around that.
How many other people around theworld in positions of power
either socially, politically, orreligiously are opening the mic
to anyone and everyone to have an open discussion?
No one. He is the only one or he was the
only one I like. I cannot fathom this.
(07:16):
I did wake up the morning it happened and I saw the video in
its entirety and at first I didn't realize it was Charlie
Kirk. I just watched the video and I
thought shit. And then I thought to myself,
this is not normal. For a start.
This for the human condition, the human brain and our eyes and
(07:41):
our processing system. Like, no wonder we're all full
of such anxiety. It is not normal for you to see
this sort of thing in a lifetimeonce, let alone repeatedly, let
alone on your feed, followed by a nice video of like some girl
wearing a beautiful dress and shoes and going out for dinner
(08:02):
and showing her outfit. It's not fucking normal.
You should not be seeing this. This should not be happening and
social media should have things in place where these things are
not able to be uploaded. It is as simple as that.
It does extend into more complexities such as America and
(08:24):
their gun laws, yes, But Americaand their security, you know,
they have a very dense history in gun issues.
I would like to say securing rooftops at the university and
things like that. Should that have been done?
Yes. But does it make it any more or
(08:44):
less, you know, daft for somebody to go ahead and do
this? Like it just doesn't translate.
You could put all of the measures in place.
The fact that someone still showed up to that event with a
gun with that intention is the very problem.
And people online going off, youknow, on absolute tangents,
(09:05):
we've got people celebrating thedeath.
I'm not even going to give them the time of day or my opinion
because that's just disgusting. Then we've got other people
saying, well, he said, you know,we do need a few deaths from
guns to allow the Second Amendment to still be in place.
And did he say that? Yes.
Does that mean he deserves to die by getting shot?
(09:26):
No, it does not. People are just sick for that.
The other things that I'm seeingis, well, Charlie Kirk was a bad
person. He didn't believe in empathy.
Well, if we're going to use pieces, context is so important.
You guys, if we're going to use quotes, we need to use quotes in
their entirety. We can't just select pieces, you
(09:49):
know, that Go with our bias and share that.
We need to give things in full context.
Now, what Charlie actually said about empathy was he does not
believe in the word empathy. He believes that that's a New
Age term and it's overtaking theword sympathy.
He believes in sympathy, not empathy.
He thinks that we simply becauseempathy means to feel what
(10:11):
another person is feeling and wesimply cannot feel what someone
else is feeling. Therefore he believes in the
term sympathy, that is, sympathising with someone and
feeling pain because you feel bad for them, not saying you
feel what they're feeling. I agree with that entirely.
So to take a section and say, oh, he doesn't believe in
(10:31):
empathy, he's a bad person. It's just awful.
In fact, to take anything negative about someone who's
just been killed and share that,that's also awful.
So I just disagree with that fora start.
And that saying also goes like, if you are in any way
celebrating Charlie's death or you know, saying Oh yes, he
(10:52):
died, but why should we sympathize with him while at the
same time asserting that the deaths of other individuals like
victims in Gaza, you're like saying that that's inherently
tragic. You are literally contradicting
yourself. The principle is either that
human life holds intrinsic valueor it does not.
(11:13):
It's as simple as it doesn't apply to one group of people and
not the next. You can't denounce others for
dehumanizing certain groups and then engage in that exact same
behaviour towards someone you disagree with politically,
religiously, socially, what haveyou.
Like if your position in life deserves respect regardless of
(11:35):
identity or background or belief, and like that's what I
believe and that's what everyoneshould believe, then that
principle has to apply to everyone, even people who have
views different to you. And this is the exact issue in
society. This boils down to a systemic
issue. People can't handle
(11:55):
uncomfortable conversations and people can't respect people if
they oppose their views. And I think that's something we
all need to learn is that it is super important to be able to
humanize somebody and respect them regardless of if they agree
with you about XYZ. Otherwise, it's just not a
(12:15):
matter of principle, but it's just selectively assigning value
to human lives based on your personal choice.
And that's inhumane in my opinion.
And I know you're probably sitting there right now
recognizing anger in my voice, but I am furious.
Like I I was sad and now I'm just mad because I'm
disappointed. And I'm also mad and slash
(12:39):
terrified to raise my children in a world like this, knowing
that there's people like that out there who, yeah, assign
human value based on what they like or what they don't like,
that that's terrifying. I just don't understand how
we're not. Yeah, I just don't get it.
And I'm going to move on to the Cost of Silence and Irina's
(12:59):
story, and I'm going to come back to Charlie in a moment.
Irina Zoritsko's story breaks mein a completely different way,
and it angers me in a completelydifferent way.
Irina Zoritsko wasn't silenced for speaking.
She was abandoned in silence. She was on her way home from
work, on public transport, sitting among other civilians
(13:22):
who sat and watched and turned ablind eye as she was stabbed to
death. Cameras rolled and onlookers
froze. They ignored.
And in her last desperate moments, not one single person
stepped forward to hold her hand.
To say, you're not alone. I am angry, like I am just
(13:46):
reeling. That is a cruelty just as deep
as the knife, but the layers getthicker.
Her killer should never have been given the freedom to be
there in society in the 1st place.
A judge had already set this monster free when he should have
been behind bars. That single decision cost Irena
(14:07):
her life, and yet beyond the legal system failing her, the
only thing we have left as a community, humanity, which I
touched on before, that failed her to.
What does that say about us? What does that say about the
world we're living in? That a woman can just die in
plain sight and the crowd does absolutely nothing.
(14:27):
Those who stood there, they chose silence.
They chose not to act. They chose not to comfort her in
her final moments of life. They are not innocent.
They are complicit. Because sometimes silence
doesn't just allow evil. Silence is evil, and those
people need to be held accountable.
Irina's death is a tragedy of violence.
(14:50):
It's a tragedy of systemic injustice.
But mostly it's a tragedy of inaction.
And this forces us to ask, when someone cries out, will we be
the ones who step forward or theones who stand back and let them
die alone? We have to be the ones to step
forward. Now, I had this discussion with
my mom today as something of much lesser weight.
(15:12):
Much, much, much lesser weight, but something that you never
know. Like things turn bad so quickly.
And I want to take you back to, I believe it was last year now,
I had parked my vehicle in an Akron Bay, which is a disability
parking Bay. I have a valid Akron permit.
I have had one for 14 years now.I'll have one for the rest of my
(15:34):
life because I have a disability.
Now, part of having that is to have that parking, yes, but it's
also so that you don't need to explain yourself.
OK, so you park there and it's like I have a right to park
here. I have my permit.
It's not easy to get those permits, by the way, and you
shouldn't be questioned on that.But ever since I have had one
(15:56):
the I couldn't tell you the amount of times I have been
questioned, yelled at, stared down like what have you.
Because I am a younger person who sometimes when I'm not
wearing my external braces, I look like a completely normal
person. And in fact, a lot of people
with disabilities look like a completely, well, fully
(16:18):
functioning person. I have a good friend who was
abused the same for parking in Akro Bay with a valid Akron who
was in heart failure, you guys. So anyway, back to my story.
This one particular day I had myyoungest son with me.
He was 5 at the time. I hopped out of the car, went
around and got him out and therewas a man who had walked past my
(16:40):
car towards the shopping center but came back.
So he'd seen my car and turned and came back while I had my
child, getting him out of the car, holding his hand and
started yelling at me, calling me a CUNT and a lazy bitch and
what have you for parking there.And should there's people who
(17:01):
actually fucking need that car parked.
Barber absolutely going at me inmy face.
Now I have my young child with me so I didn't want to expose
him to this, nor did I want to expose him to me retaliating in
any way. All I managed to say to that man
was I have a valid pass, please leave me alone.
He continued to yell at me. Now not only was he getting
closer and yelling at me basically nearly face to face,
(17:26):
he was much bigger than me. He's being very aggressive and
there were numerous people watching.
Not one single person intervened.
Came to help me, asked if I was OK afterwards because I was very
visibly upset. I was crying and had my child
with me and they were probably the closest person was maybe 2
(17:47):
meters away. There was other people close by.
There was. I could count at least five
people who were there that couldhave intervened.
Not one single person did and I was more upset by the fact that
people did not intervene than the actual abuse itself that I
later wrote on a Facebook group chat from my local suburb and
said hey, this happened to me today and I just want people to
(18:08):
know like not to judge a book byits cover and also maybe double
check if people have a pass before abusing them.
And also if you're an onlooker, maybe help someone out.
Well I just copped abuse on thatpost being like, well maybe
people are scared to step in, they don't want things happening
to them blah blah blah. And I was like gobsmacked.
I was literally like, I have no other word for it.
I just sat there with my mouth open and was like how Like how
(18:33):
was this life? Like there were other able
bodied men there that could havehelped me or women or anyone to
step in or someone could have got security or whatever or even
just ask if I was OK. And not one single person did.
And now people are abusing me saying that they don't want to
put themselves in harm's way. No one's asking you to put
yourself in harm's way, but there are many, many, many, many
(18:55):
other ways you could help in those situations.
And again, I know this is nowhere near as significant as
Irena, but I I just, it makes mesick to my stomach that this
happened to her and I'm so sorryto her.
I am so sorry that she felt likeshe needed to escape her
(19:16):
war-torn country where she wasn't safe and she felt like
she'd gone to a country of freedom and was murdered and not
only was murdered but died alonewhen it didn't have to be that
way. I could literally go on and on
about Charlie and Irena all day,but I won't.
(19:36):
I'll save you the waffle, but both of these make me sick to my
core. Like 100% Charlie and Irena
stories are polarizing but they meet at the same point.
Failure. Charlie's untimely death is a
failure of a culture that has lost its tolerance, where
disagreement is no longer a conversation but a death
(19:58):
sentence. It's the failure of people who
choose hatred over humanity. Irina's death is the failure of
a justice system that led a dangerous monster walk free.
It's the failure of every singlebystander who chose to sit there
stare. Freeze, ignore and film instead
(20:23):
of stepping forward 2 lives. Two different circumstances,
both revealing the same truth. Systems that claim to protect us
are collapsing, and the people inside those systems are hiding
behind excuses. Judges who make reckless
decisions, Leaders who inflamed division.
(20:44):
Bystanders who stay silent. And yet, accountability doesn't
stop with the courts or the state.
It belongs to all of us. Because when we normalize
violence against those who speakout, and when we normalize
silence in the face of suffering, we become the
problem. Charlie should still be here.
(21:05):
Irena should still be here. And the fact that they aren't is
not just on their killers. It's on the structures that
enabled it. And on the silence that allowed
it. Why does this matter to all of
us? I know they're going to be
people listening to this, thinking that it's so far away
from us that it's not relevant. Wrong.
(21:26):
Charlie's murder tells us what happens when we stop respecting
the power of ideas and choose violence over dialogue.
Irena's murder tells us what happens when we stop valuing
human life enough to step forward, even in the smallest
act of compassion, like holding her hand.
Even if we allow this to keep happening, if we shrug and move
(21:48):
on, and if we scroll past, if westay comfortable in silence,
then we're choosing to accept a world where freedom is punished
and humanity is optional. And that's not just their story.
That's ours. That's all of us.
I don't know about you, but I have children and I am scared
(22:08):
for what the world is going to look like for them when they're
adults. And I want to end with this
because I know one thing is for sure is that had Charlie Kirk
been in the presence of Irena Zarutzka on that day she was
murdered, he would never have let her die alone.
(22:29):
So let that sink in. Thank you for joining us on this
new episode. I hope you have enjoyed it.
Here you can subscribe to stay up to date across all platforms,
including Instagram, Facebook, TikTok and YouTube.
You can help us out by subscribing to our paid
episodes, which are on Spotify, or by making a donation to allow
us to help more families. You can also join in on the case
(22:52):
discussions and make case requests in our Facebook group,
which you can find the link to in our podcast notes.
But as always, stay curious, stay informed, and until next
time, trust your instincts and keep seeking the truth.
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