June 3, 2025 • 31 mins
What happens when we recognize employees as multi-dimensional humans instead of just job titles? The results can transform both customer and employee experience in powerful ways.
In this CX Pulse Check, John Garrett, author of What's Your And?, shares how companies that invest in employee experience see powerful returns—like 28% revenue growth and 50% higher sales from customer-facing teams who feel valued.
From knitting groups at ServiceNow to Starbucks choosing people over AI, we explore how personal passions at work drive connection, loyalty, and business success. John also highlights the need to support high-performing employees to prevent burnout and sustain long-term engagement.
This conversation is a compelling reminder: when people can be themselves at work, everyone wins—employees, customers, and the bottom line.
About John Garrett:
John Garrett—award-winning author and people-centric leadership speaker—is on a mission to create thriving workplaces. What the CPA-turned-professional comedian turned two-time Emmy nominee may do best is champion the human side of professionals, consulting with organizations to develop more productive cultures while shining a light on their people’s rich lives outside of work. And his book, What’s Your “And”?, was named a Distinguished Favorite by the Independent Press Awards and it was recently featured in Forbes.
Learn more about John and "What's Your And?" at https://thejohngarrett.com or https://whatsyourand.com/
Follow John and What's Your And on...
X/Twitter: https://x.com/The_JohnGarrett
X/Twitter: https://x.com/Whats_Your_And
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/John_R_Garrett
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/WhatsYourAnd
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thejohngarrett/
Articles Mentioned:
- Why These Companies Let Team Members Share and Explore Personal Passions at Work (Built In Seattle) -- https://www.builtinseattle.com/articles/why-these-companies-let-team-members-share-and-explore-personal-passions-work
- To Leverage Employee Passion, Save It for When It Counts (Harvard Business School) -- https://www.library.hbs.edu/working-knowledge/in-cost-cutting-era-save-passion-for-when-it-counts
- Starbucks doubles down on baristas, not AI, to fix its customer crunch (Business Insider) -- https://www.businessinsider.com/starbucks-investing-humans-rivals-bet-ai-2025-5
Want to ask a question? Visit askjeannie.vip to leave Jeannie a voicemail! (And don't forget to follow Jeannie on LinkedIn! www.linkedin.com/in/jeanniewalters/)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jeannie Walters (00:10):
It's not only the Experience Action Podcast,
but today is my favorite episodeof the month.
It is time for CX Pulse Check,where I invite a special co-host
to talk about real-time CX newsthat you can use.
And today I am thrilled toinvite my special co-host to the
stage.
We have none other than myfriend and the author of What's
(00:32):
Your And?
" John Garrett.
John nice to see you.
John Garrett (00:37):
So great to see you as well.
Thank you for inviting me.
I don't know how many thousandpeople said no, but here I am,
I'm excited to be.
No, I just love everything thatyou're doing and just honored
to be a guest.
Jeannie Walters (00:49):
Thank you so much.
Well, we're honored that you'rehere.
John Garrett (00:52):
I got elevated, so thank you.
Jeannie Walters (00:54):
Well, we are very honored that you're here
and I know you pretty well, butour audience members might not
know you as well, so can youshare a little bit about
yourself and also the work thatyou do?
John Garrett (01:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
I graduated from Notre Dame andI was a big four CPA with
PresswaterhouseCoopers and thenleft all corporate to do
stand-up comedy full-time.
That was actually 20 years ago,which I've got a little bit of
a gap in my resume and yeah, andthen eventually moved to New
York City, wrote two Emmy-nomnominated award shows, did some
(01:27):
pretty cool stuff and then hadsome near misses.
So that's when I marriedCorporate John with Comedy John
and that's where a lot of thespeaking and all that.
And then I had someone rememberme who I had never met or
worked with from my first PwCoffice 12 years earlier at a
conference, told the meetingplanner oh I know, John Garrett,
(01:47):
that's the guy who did comedyat night.
And uh, so that's where What'sYour And came about of.
Just who else are you beyond thejob title?
Uh, no one remembers yourtechnical skills.
Uh, you'd have to be a savantfor someone to really remember
how amazingly good you were,because all those technical
skills are completelyreplaceable and so you've got to
(02:10):
bring the human out from behindthe job title.
And that's really the work thatI do is just who else are you
beyond the job title?
And it's fun to unlock peopleand help them live activated
lives and create organizationswith people-centric leaders that
care.
Jeannie Walters (02:25):
That's fantastic.
Well, and I think one of thereasons I wanted to have you on
is because in this work we doaround customer experience,
employee experience is such ahuge part of what we do and as
generations are coming into theworkplace, they're saying more
and more like I want to beauthentic, I want you to know
(02:46):
who I am, not just what I can do.
So I think it's so interestingbecause some of the things that
we're going to talk about todayreally kind of hit on that
overlap between customerexperience and employee
experience and what you'retalking about, speaking of and,
let's say and a lot in thisepisode.
John Garrett (03:03):
But you got to use ampersands when you do the
transcripts.
Jeannie Walters (03:06):
That's right.
John Garrett (03:07):
So there we go, get a little crazy.
Jeannie Walters (03:10):
But it really is a layered idea about what the
workplace is today and how wecan provide more meaning to not
just the people who work there,but also who they serve, so I'm
excited about this discussion.
John Garrett (03:26):
Yeah, well, I mean , and it could get deep too,
because I mean, it's at work,it's outside of work, it's just
human beings.
We have all these otherdimensions and yet we bury and
abandon parts of ourselves forwhat we think is success, quote,
unquote, and only to find outthat it's chasing a ghost.
Yeah, it's not healthy.
(03:48):
And so it's really cool whenyou just have humans around you
that you acknowledge.
Jeannie Walters (03:54):
That's right, and I think, thinking way back
to when we first met, I thinkpart of it was we were like, hey
, you're human, I'm human, right, we connected.
So I'm happy that that happened.
But let's set this up a littlebit.
So I wanted to make sure thatpeople understood how important
(04:15):
it is to really think about theemployee experience, what we're
bringing to work, what we'reasking people to bring to work,
all of those things.
So here's why we should one ofthe many reasons we should care
about it.
Companies that invest inemployee experience have a 28%
higher revenue growth thancompared to those who don't.
Organizations with highlyengaged employees are 21% more
(04:37):
profitable.
Businesses that invest inexperienced, customer-facing
employees report a 50% increasein revenue, and positive
employee experience leads to a10% higher satisfaction rate and
a 22% increase in customerloyalty.
So we are talking about thingsthat matter.
(04:59):
Sometimes, I think, when wetalk about these things, people
turn off and they think theseare soft skills, these are
things we don't really need totalk about.
This has an absolute, dramaticbottom line impact on your
organization.
So I wanted to kind of set thestage there.
So we have a couple of thingsthat I wanted to talk about
(05:25):
today, the first one, and younever know, we've made this,
we've talked about this before,but you never know where I'm
going to pull these articlesfrom, because sometimes they're
very local but they have a bigimpact.
So this one is from Built inSeattle and the headline is why
these companies let team membersshare and explore personal
passions at work.
And it's like they wrote theheadline for this discussion
(05:48):
Pretty much, and it's a reallygreat discussion.
It includes ServiceNow and someother well-known organizations
and some of the things thatthey're doing.
So I know you had a chance tolook at this.
So what came up for you aboutthis and what did you?
What do you think motivatedthese companies to really take
the steps that they did?
John Garrett (06:08):
Yeah, I mean I not just read it.
I paid Lucas Dean a year ago towrite the article, so then I
could have it for you and me totalk.
Jeannie Walters (06:16):
Amazing.
You know what that'spreparation.
Ladies and gentlemen.
John Garrett (06:19):
I'm way ahead, way ahead.
But I mean it's, it's absolutelytrue.
I mean and you know it saidhere.
You know that, some studiesdone, you know eight and a half
hours per week doing theiroutside of work hobbies and
passions their ands, if youwill, and 35 hours per week
working on average, which seemslow, but you know we have human
(06:40):
beings that do work.
You know you're not anaccountant, you're not an
engineer.
You're not an attorney, you'renot.
You're a human that doesaccounting work.
You're a human who doesengineering work.
It's a bigger thing.
And you put the shirt on for awhile and then you take it off
and you're still you without theshirt on, without the label,
without the work title, and, andso I love.
(07:03):
You know the examples here.
I mean they're simple things.
Slack channel groups, employeeresource groups that are based
around.
Some of them are a little bit,I feel like if you can create
them more around people's ands,it's better.
That helps bridge generationaldifferences, it helps bridge DEI
(07:24):
differences, it helps bridgeall these other things that were
a little bit forced and didn'tquite land quite well, and so I
think it's great how it's, youknow, looking at the people that
work there as multidimensionalbeings.
That's right.
So why don't we find out whatelse you like to do?
Jeannie Walters (07:44):
That's right.
I was at a beautiful campuscorporate campus a couple years
ago and it was right when peoplewere coming back to the office
and there was a lot of outdoorspace and it was beautiful.
And at one of the lunches whenI was there, I looked over and
there was a whole table of youngwomen knitting and they were
(08:07):
just sitting there knitting,drinking their coffee, talking,
and they said, yeah, that kindof happened because a lot of
people took that up as theirhobby during the shutdown and
they didn't want to give it up,and so they found each other and
they created this lunchtimeknitting group it up.
And they said that it actuallyencouraged some of them to come
(08:29):
to the office on those daysright, because they might not
have other reasons to go, butthey wanted that camaraderie and
they wanted to share theirpassion and learn from each
other and everything else.
So there were some of thosethings in this article as well
about you know, even book clubsand things like that can really
help people.
And then I also liked that Ithink it was ServiceNow who's
(08:51):
investing in like a wholeplatform that encourages
lifelong learning of not justthings that apply at work, but
kind of investing in yourselfthat way, and so I think it is
really looking at people in adifferent way and making sure
we're considering that they'rethree-dimensional,
(09:12):
multi-dimensional people whohave all these different
interests.
So it's a cool thing to exploreif you really think about it
and get creative.
John Garrett (09:20):
In another example that was great too.
Roland Sargent was another onethat was interviewed for this
and he was saying that he DJs onthe side a little bit and
somebody found out and they werelike, hey, do you want to DJ
this like executive retreatthing?
And sure yeah, now the CEOknows them.
They're like on a first namebasis, like and so now you know
(09:40):
you're not just one of, you knowa thousand, you're you.
Yeah, why don't you just standout like that?
I mean, that's my career journey, you know, is that and and it
wasn't the work and a reallystrong resume that I definitely
had, it was the outside of workhobby is what the thing that
people remember.
Because who you are is not whatyou do.
Jeannie Walters (10:03):
Right
John Garrett (10:03):
Who you are is bigger and richer.
So if you show people who youare, then they're going to
remember that and you're goingto stand out and and I mean that
worked for this guy in thearticle and it's it was awesome
to read and be like, oh, it's acool, cool thing.
Jeannie Walters (10:17):
I think, going back to those uh, you know stats
that I talked about, like byinvesting in this for their
employees, these organizationsrealize like, hey, this is going
to help with employee retention, this is going to help people
be more engaged.
Because we're investing in themin these different ways, we're
allowing them to kind of share.
And I think that when you kindof read all the things that
(10:40):
people want in a workplace,belonging is so important and to
your point, like, belongingmeans basically being seen and
understood and so if we canshare who we really are and
share that, that helps us withthat sense of belonging.
John Garrett (10:57):
Yeah, and just feeling valued.
You know I'm valued as John,not valued as senior analyst.
Jeannie Walters (11:04):
Right
John Garrett (11:04):
You know.
And so you know.
It's simple, things like justhey, I know you were DJing this
weekend, Do you have anypictures?
Or how did it go?
Or asking some question aroundpeople's hands and have a
follow-up question or two, andthen it's oh wow, that's cool,
you remembered me for me type ofthing.
Jeannie Walters (11:25):
Yeah.
Exactly that's really cool.
So I think the other thing thatI found kind of fascinating
about that knitting group was,to your point, like it was not I
mentioned young women becausethat's what stood out to me, but
it was all different ages, alldifferent types of people.
And I actually worked with thatcompany for a while and I
remember asking about it and theone of the executives said oh,
(11:49):
that thing has grown.
That thing now has like severaldifferent days where they, you
know, work together and theyhave different tutorials for
each other and all thesedifferent things.
So it's become a whole thing.
But then he said now there's,like you know, all these
different ones, like there's oneof a group of people who are
really into rebuilding cars.
(12:10):
So they would.
He's like it was great.
It was like brought in picturesof their children.
You know, they brought in apicture of their car and they
passed it around and they foundpeople would would appreciate
that.
So I think it is reallysomething that people will, even
when they move on from thatplace, they're going to remember
those types of things andprobably still have those
connections, which are a lotmore meaningful too.
John Garrett (12:34):
Absolutely
Jeannie Walters (12:34):
All good, and so when we talk about engaged
employees especially, I thinksometimes people assume engaged
means people who are activelylike, engaged, productive and
doing their jobs and all of that.
But some of that comes down tothis idea of passion, like
passion for their work, passionfor each other, passion for
(12:56):
customers.
And so this next thing I wantto talk about it's from Harvard
Business Review, which makesfrequent appearances here on CX
Pulse Check.
John Garrett (13:07):
Never heard of them.
I know right, Never heard ofthem.
Jeannie Walters (13:10):
And the title is to leverage employee passion
save it for when it counts.
And this really stood out to mebecause, instead of making a
case for, like, you have to getpassionate employees and you
have to do all this, it wasalmost making the case of watch
out for your most passionateemployees because they might
burn out faster.
(13:31):
And so making that connectionbetween how can you protect them
, how can you make sure thatthey're taking care of
themselves, because if we're notcareful, these are the people
who will burn out quickly.
So curious on your thoughts onthis.
John Garrett (13:44):
Yeah, no, I mean, that's absolutely right.
I mean, I think the one thingthat's really interesting,
though, is that it's importantto note that you don't have to
be passionate about exactly thework that you do.
You just have to be passionateabout something, and then you
can take that enthusiasm andenergy and that inertia moving
(14:04):
forward and then, okay, now goknock out that spreadsheet.
You know, or whatever it is.
So you don't have to love, youknow, accounts payable, but you
just have to be alive and thentake that energy.
And so I think when I readarticles like this, they a lot
of people assume you have to bepassionate about your job and
you don't.
You really don't.
(14:24):
I mean, you just have to begood at it and like it and you
know.
But it doesn't have to be thereason you exist and the reason
you wake up every morning.
It really doesn't.
There's something else.
But then you do the job to makethe money to go do the cool
stuff you know, type of thing.
So so don't.
I think a lot of this articlepoints towards being passionate
(14:45):
about your work, and so I justwant people to understand like
you don't have to be, but if youare passionate about your work,
then that's great.
And put up some guardrailsbecause, yeah, our brain and is
not our friend all the time, andmore is not always better, and
you will self-sacrifice and cutoff all kinds of limbs and
(15:10):
appendages for success and it'slike yeah, what are you doing?
You know a good leader will helpyou, like some organizations
that I work with still do, likebillable hours, professional
services world, and I asked themdo you have a report of people
who don't reach a minimum numberof hours?
You know they're below thebillable hour.
(15:31):
Oh yeah, absolutely, we're allover those people.
Like I said, well, do you havea similar report for people that
reach too many billable hours?
Why would we have that?
Well, because those people areabout to explode.
So you know, I mean that's themore important report is the
people that are running a littletoo hot for too long and you
(15:51):
have to step in and let themknow.
Look, you don't have to keepproving it, you know, dial it
down, because you're going toburn out and be done.
And now you're not good to me,you're not good to yourself,
your family or your friends orour clients and customers.
And so, yeah, I mean absolutely, as a people-centric leader,
(16:12):
you have to keep an eye on thatas well.
Sure, it makes you look good,but when they fall off a cliff,
then it hurts.
So you know help them helpthemselves.
Jeannie Walters (16:22):
Well, and I think it's interesting, because
all of us kind of come into theworld with a certain lens or
certain things that we'repassionate about and we can't
always flip the switch right, wecan't always say like, woohoo,
spreadsheets, if that's not ourthing.
And one of the things that Ihave to connect with sometimes,
because you know, as a businessowner, you're doing everything,
(16:46):
whether you like it or not,right?
So I have been running thisbusiness for almost 16 years and
, yeah, I've got to deal withspreadsheets sometimes or things
that really I'm not super into.
But I try to take a step backand think about the why.
Like okay, I'm, I'm looking atthe spreadsheet because I want
to know X, because that's goingto help me do Y, and once I get
(17:08):
into that, then I can like flipa switch of.
It helps me stay engaged andget a little more passionate
about those things that I'm notsuper enthusiastic about.
And I try to remind my teamthat all the time too.
Like don't just do things, likeI never want you to just do
things because I asked you to dothem.
Like that's, that's my children.
John Garrett (17:30):
That's what.
That's what that's for.
Jeannie Walters (17:32):
But if, if there are things that, like you
know you're doing and you're notsure why, then we need to fix
that, because that is where wethat's where you get the best
output too is where peopleunderstand the why and it helps
them connect with that and Ithink that helps prevent some of
that burnout of you know, go,go, go and do the billable hours
(17:53):
and all that.
But at the same time, we also,as much as we want people to
bring their whole selves to work.
There are certain things wedon't know about people, like
they might be battling thingsthat we don't know about, and so
being aware of that as a leader, I think, is so important too,
because you never really knowunless they you know something
(18:15):
dramatic or they are sharingsometimes too much right.
So we're asking people to walkthis line and I think that's
part of helping people avoidthat burnout is really
understanding exactly who theyare.
John Garrett (18:31):
Yeah, I mean it's, you know what's professional
has changed rapidly, even in thelast five years, let alone the
last hundred years, and and soyou know it's it's it's people
understanding that, like thatdefinition has always changed,
but what's unprofessional hasalways existed and that's if you
(18:53):
inhibit some, your ability orsomeone else's ability to do
their job well, then that'sunprofessional.
So don't do so, you know.
But other than that, gloves areoff like go nuts.
You know, get to know eachother.
We're around each other morewaking hours than our families
and friends, and you know we're,you know, all in on this with a
team.
So, you know, get to know eachother a little bit.
(19:16):
And then, yeah, if people arerunning a little too hot, you
know, pull them aside as afriend, because you've created
these relationships, thesenon-billable minutes between the
billable hours, if you will,that where you create this
relationship.
So you're pulling your friendaside and be like, hey, I'm a
little concerned, are you okay?
Like you know, what are yourunning from?
Like you don't have to keepproving this like wait, you know
(19:37):
, and uh, um, type of thing, andand so, yeah, I mean, I thought
, I thought it was, it was great, um, that you know, as a
friendly reminder of like youdon't have to keep dialing it up
and I feel like that's, that'sa lot of this.
This culture is, you know, side, hustle side.
No, none of it, none of it'srevenue generating, none of
(19:58):
these side things are.
They're just things that Ienjoy doing, you know, and and
this hustle and this more, more,more, more for what you know
and like at some point, likeenough's enough type of thing
and think long term.
Jeannie Walters (20:13):
Yeah, yeah.
And I think often of thecontact center agents who are
out there who burn out becausewe basically ask the impossible.
We say deal with all theseangry people all day long which
we have a physiological responseto.
We can't help it, we can't sayto ourselves I'm not going to
react to this when somebody'syelling at you.
(20:37):
And so that creates all thisstress, all this cortisol, all
this stuff.
And then we're like, well, youdidn't meet your numbers right,
you didn't take enough calls,and what we've realized there's
been kind of an evolution inthis in the last decade plus.
But some really forwardthinking places realize like
this is not sustainable.
(20:57):
So they're putting in likewellness requirements kind of
throughout the day and they'resaying like, okay, after this
many calls or whenever you want,here's how you take a break
here.
Some actually put in likelittle exercise rooms with like
bikes and stuff so people canjust like move.
Some of them have nature pathsand stuff.
So they're really trying tothink about what do humans need?
(21:20):
Humans need fresh air, humansneed water, humans need rest.
Humans need these things.
And if we stick somebody in acubicle and say good luck, of
course they're going to belosing it with a customer by the
end of the day.
So I think we have to totallyreframe that discussion as well,
because otherwise we're notjust burning them out, we're
(21:43):
actually creating real problemsfor the business and the
customer and who knows what else.
So I mean there have beenlawsuits over people who have
been, you know, sworn at by acontact center agent.
John Garrett (21:56):
That's amazing.
Jeannie Walters (21:57):
And you look at them and you're like, hmm, that
was like the 12th or 13th callin an hour.
Who knows what they've beenthrough right.
So I think we have to reallybroaden our view of what does it
mean to care for people whowork at our organizations?
John Garrett (22:11):
Yeah, because it's a human being behind that job
title.
Yes, and you wouldn't treatyour assets that are digital
like that.
You wouldn't have yourcomputers on running 87 programs
all at the same time for fivedays in a row.
So then, why should humans bethe same?
They're even more fragile.
Jeannie Walters (22:30):
What a good segue.
It's like we planned it, John,that is
John Garrett (22:33):
Well, it's like I had homework to be on this show,
so you know hey
Jeannie Walters (22:39):
Well, you did your homework, because our next
one.
John Garrett (22:42):
Co-host look at me .
Jeannie Walters (22:46):
It's all about the people.
So we've talked about this acouple of times in kind of
various forms.
Starbucks keeps evolving rightnow because they're really
trying to find their place again.
So the most interesting thinghere this is from Business
Insider and the headline isStarbucks doubles down on
baristas, not AI, to fix itscustomer crunch.
(23:07):
And this has been reallyinteresting for me to watch,
because they went through awhole thing a couple of years
ago about, you know, creativedrink orders and all these like
things that actually slowedeverything down, and what they
also realized was that more andmore people were relying on
mobile ordering, but they didn'thave the right system for that
(23:30):
versus the drive-through and allthis.
Then they started reallygetting into AI and some
functionality there to havedifferent order-taking models,
and essentially what they foundwas you know what?
We're not fast enough.
That's what everybody'scomplaining about.
There were reports severalmonths ago about people waiting
40 minutes four zero minutes fora drink, and that was
(23:53):
consistent.
So people were really startingto get upset and they were
abandoning Starbucks, and theirwhole kind of ethos is about
being the third place too, andthey were shutting down cafes,
they were going, all thesethings.
So now they're starting to sayyou know what, maybe we need to
bring people back, Maybe we needmore baristas, more of that
(24:14):
human touch, more of the thingthat people go to Starbucks for.
Sometimes it's for thatfriendly face.
So this really stood out to mebecause, while Starbucks is
doing this, the flip side ismore and more, especially, fast
food places are starting to useAI for order taking and all
(24:34):
sorts of things, and maybe thatwill speed up and maybe
customers will appreciate thattoo, because they're different
experiences.
But it's just, I think it'skind of a bold move for
Starbucks and I think that it'ssomething that people might be
craving right now.
So so what did you think aboutthis?
John Garrett (24:50):
Yeah, no, I mean I , I agree.
I mean how many, how manycoffees can a shop put out in an
hour?
You know, like, at some pointwe've reached capacity, right,
and you know, I don't care ifthere's online, like you can
order on the app, but you knowyou're going to wait 40 minutes
where, if you show up at thestore and the line's long,
you're going to be like, yeah,I'm just not getting it.
(25:12):
Um, you know, but if youalready ordered, well I guess
you're waiting.
Um, and there's, there's onlyso many that can be made.
I mean, you just can't do it.
I mean they got Starbucksacross the streets from other
Starbucks, so just go to thatone, I mean, and they still
don't have enough, you know.
So you know, at some pointenough is enough and good for
Starbucks for being like, youknow what, we've reached
(25:33):
capacity and we need humansbecause they're more efficient
at these special orders, at ifsomething malfunctions, if
there's a tweak or whatever.
Like, AI and bots are great whenthings are humming and, yeah,
you can't compete, but whenthere's a curve ball or there's
special order Susie in front ofyou, then you're in trouble and
(25:57):
so, or you get me, uh, whodoesn't even know the size names
.
So I'm just getting a mediumand uh, and they're like oh, do
you mean a blah blah, blah?
That's not even a word, it's amedium.
And so they're like I can'tfind it on the screen.
Of course you can't, becauseI'm a human and stop being dumb.
But no, I love it.
(26:17):
You know because, especiallyfrom the customer service side
of things, you know, having ahuman being hand you that is
great, and having a human beingmisspell your name on the cup is
all part of the experience.
Jeannie Walters (26:32):
Exactly
John Garrett (26:32):
mean, it's all part of it.
Jeannie Walters (26:33):
There's nothing like it.
There's nothing like it.
John Garrett (26:35):
I mean it really is.
I mean and it's.
But having a human hand, thatto you, and seeing the people
behind there, I think you'remore sympathetic.
I think you're a little morelike.
You know, when you're behindthe app and you order and then
it says it's going to be 40minutes and you become a
keyboard warrior and you're justyelling at.
You don't see the face and thehuman behind that counter, and
so I think it's great wherethey're like you know what
(26:58):
enough's enough, and this iswhere we're at.
Jeannie Walters (27:01):
I love it too.
I think that it will be reallygreat to see the results that
they get too, because the otherthing that this article didn't
necessarily talk about but Ihave thought about is that this
you know, when you have humansworking, they notice things,
right.
Before they become patterns,before they become data points,
(27:21):
and so if they're finding thatyou know what everybody's
ordering this dumb unicorn drink, which was a thing a couple
years ago right, oh right, it'slike 15 minutes to make.
Can we please stop making this?
Eventually, that goes to theright people.
Even things like their past CEOdid this, where he went into
different stores and worked inthe store and he was kind of
(27:44):
like wait, we've got so manydifferent cup options that one
of the things that was happeningwas orders were made wrong
because they were put in thewrong cup and so they'd have to
start all over and it wastedcups and it wasted times.
And he was like we need to goback to just like having a few
sizes of cups and making iteasier for everybody and so
little things like that.
That can improve both the speedof the experience and the
(28:06):
quality of the experience.
That is because humans noticeand until we get to a place
where the robot is literally youknow some guy we call joe who
is just like part of the family,then I think we need people to
really look for thoseimprovements to be made and be
(28:28):
the ones who are there testingthings and trying things out and
all that, and they can look youin the eye and say sorry about
the wait.
Right, that matters.
So I think that this is areally good thing to watch and
I'm excited about it.
And I'm curious, though yourname is John, so how often do
they misspell it?
John Garrett (28:49):
I get the J-O-N.
It's like I didn't say Jonathan.
Jeannie Walters (28:53):
I'm so sorry that happens to you.
It's the worst.
John Garrett (28:57):
I just walk out with my medium and a hot
chocolate and I'm like that'sall you want.
You don't want any, all kind ofno, I don't.
I'm simple, I'm pretty.
I go to Starbucks like twice ayear and that's about it, and
it's because somebody elsewanted to go.
Jeannie Walters (29:13):
Well, next time you go you'll have to show you
know, show me a picture if theyspelled your name right.
Cause I want that for you.
John Garrett (29:24):
See, this is why we're friends.
This is why we're friends,right here.
Jeannie Walters (29:27):
Cause Jeannie is not spelled right most of the
time.
I'll tell you that much.
But
John Garrett (29:32):
There's some varieties.
Yeah, and like, are you a genie,or is your name Jeannie,
That's right.
Or something in-between.
Jeannie Walters (29:39):
Or Jenny, or Janine, or yeah, there's all
sorts of them, yeah.
John Garrett (29:43):
There, you go.
Jeannie Walters (29:54):
So, yeah, it's fun.
I always have to listen, likewhat are they going to call me,
I dunno, it's up.
It's a mystery.
Well this was so fun John.
I know it would be.
I want people to know, first ofall, your book is fantastic
"What's Your And?
It's full of great stories ofpeople who have shared things
about their lives beyondprofession and it's just a great
inspirational book.
And then you also are a keynotespeaker, you're a facilitator,
you're an emcee.
You do all sorts of greatthings at events.
(30:14):
So if people want to reach outand learn more about you, what's
the best way for them toconnect?
John Garrett (30:19):
Yeah, I mean you can go to thejohngarrettcom or
whatsyourandcom, as a lot of thepodcasts and the book stuff, so
yeah.
Jeannie Walters (30:27):
Excellent, and, yes, the podcast too, and so
we'll put all of that in theshow notes, of course.
So I encourage you all look outfor John and think about what's
your and.
That's always a good question,all right, well, thank you for
being here, and thank all of youfor being here at the
Experience Action Podcast andfor listening.
(30:48):
As you know, on the weeks we'renot doing CX Pulse Check, I
answer your questions, so leaveme a voicemail at askjeannievip.
Maybe you'll be on the nextepisode of Experience Action.
Thanks for being here,everybody.
See you next time.
It's not only the Experience Action Podcast,
but today is my favorite episodeof the month.
It is time for CX Pulse Check,where I invite a special co-host
to talk about real-time CX newsthat you can use.
And today I am thrilled toinvite my special co-host to the
stage.
We have none other than myfriend and the author of What's
(00:32):
Your And?
" John Garrett.
John nice to see you.
John Garrett (00:37):
So great to see you as well.
Thank you for inviting me.
I don't know how many thousandpeople said no, but here I am,
I'm excited to be.
No, I just love everything thatyou're doing and just honored
to be a guest.
Jeannie Walters (00:49):
Thank you so much.
Well, we're honored that you'rehere.
John Garrett (00:52):
I got elevated, so thank you.
Jeannie Walters (00:54):
Well, we are very honored that you're here
and I know you pretty well, butour audience members might not
know you as well, so can youshare a little bit about
yourself and also the work thatyou do?
John Garrett (01:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
I graduated from Notre Dame andI was a big four CPA with
PresswaterhouseCoopers and thenleft all corporate to do
stand-up comedy full-time.
That was actually 20 years ago,which I've got a little bit of
a gap in my resume and yeah, andthen eventually moved to New
York City, wrote two Emmy-nomnominated award shows, did some
(01:27):
pretty cool stuff and then hadsome near misses.
So that's when I marriedCorporate John with Comedy John
and that's where a lot of thespeaking and all that.
And then I had someone rememberme who I had never met or
worked with from my first PwCoffice 12 years earlier at a
conference, told the meetingplanner oh I know, John Garrett,
(01:47):
that's the guy who did comedyat night.
And uh, so that's where What'sYour And came about of.
Just who else are you beyond thejob title?
Uh, no one remembers yourtechnical skills.
Uh, you'd have to be a savantfor someone to really remember
how amazingly good you were,because all those technical
skills are completelyreplaceable and so you've got to
(02:10):
bring the human out from behindthe job title.
And that's really the work thatI do is just who else are you
beyond the job title?
And it's fun to unlock peopleand help them live activated
lives and create organizationswith people-centric leaders that
care.
Jeannie Walters (02:25):
That's fantastic.
Well, and I think one of thereasons I wanted to have you on
is because in this work we doaround customer experience,
employee experience is such ahuge part of what we do and as
generations are coming into theworkplace, they're saying more
and more like I want to beauthentic, I want you to know
(02:46):
who I am, not just what I can do.
So I think it's so interestingbecause some of the things that
we're going to talk about todayreally kind of hit on that
overlap between customerexperience and employee
experience and what you'retalking about, speaking of and,
let's say and a lot in thisepisode.
John Garrett (03:03):
But you got to use ampersands when you do the
transcripts.
Jeannie Walters (03:06):
That's right.
John Garrett (03:07):
So there we go, get a little crazy.
Jeannie Walters (03:10):
But it really is a layered idea about what the
workplace is today and how wecan provide more meaning to not
just the people who work there,but also who they serve, so I'm
excited about this discussion.
John Garrett (03:26):
Yeah, well, I mean , and it could get deep too,
because I mean, it's at work,it's outside of work, it's just
human beings.
We have all these otherdimensions and yet we bury and
abandon parts of ourselves forwhat we think is success, quote,
unquote, and only to find outthat it's chasing a ghost.
Yeah, it's not healthy.
(03:48):
And so it's really cool whenyou just have humans around you
that you acknowledge.
Jeannie Walters (03:54):
That's right, and I think, thinking way back
to when we first met, I thinkpart of it was we were like, hey
, you're human, I'm human, right, we connected.
So I'm happy that that happened.
But let's set this up a littlebit.
So I wanted to make sure thatpeople understood how important
(04:15):
it is to really think about theemployee experience, what we're
bringing to work, what we'reasking people to bring to work,
all of those things.
So here's why we should one ofthe many reasons we should care
about it.
Companies that invest inemployee experience have a 28%
higher revenue growth thancompared to those who don't.
Organizations with highlyengaged employees are 21% more
(04:37):
profitable.
Businesses that invest inexperienced, customer-facing
employees report a 50% increasein revenue, and positive
employee experience leads to a10% higher satisfaction rate and
a 22% increase in customerloyalty.
So we are talking about thingsthat matter.
(04:59):
Sometimes, I think, when wetalk about these things, people
turn off and they think theseare soft skills, these are
things we don't really need totalk about.
This has an absolute, dramaticbottom line impact on your
organization.
So I wanted to kind of set thestage there.
So we have a couple of thingsthat I wanted to talk about
(05:25):
today, the first one, and younever know, we've made this,
we've talked about this before,but you never know where I'm
going to pull these articlesfrom, because sometimes they're
very local but they have a bigimpact.
So this one is from Built inSeattle and the headline is why
these companies let team membersshare and explore personal
passions at work.
And it's like they wrote theheadline for this discussion
(05:48):
Pretty much, and it's a reallygreat discussion.
It includes ServiceNow and someother well-known organizations
and some of the things thatthey're doing.
So I know you had a chance tolook at this.
So what came up for you aboutthis and what did you?
What do you think motivatedthese companies to really take
the steps that they did?
John Garrett (06:08):
Yeah, I mean I not just read it.
I paid Lucas Dean a year ago towrite the article, so then I
could have it for you and me totalk.
Jeannie Walters (06:16):
Amazing.
You know what that'spreparation.
Ladies and gentlemen.
John Garrett (06:19):
I'm way ahead, way ahead.
But I mean it's, it's absolutelytrue.
I mean and you know it saidhere.
You know that, some studiesdone, you know eight and a half
hours per week doing theiroutside of work hobbies and
passions their ands, if youwill, and 35 hours per week
working on average, which seemslow, but you know we have human
(06:40):
beings that do work.
You know you're not anaccountant, you're not an
engineer.
You're not an attorney, you'renot.
You're a human that doesaccounting work.
You're a human who doesengineering work.
It's a bigger thing.
And you put the shirt on for awhile and then you take it off
and you're still you without theshirt on, without the label,
without the work title, and, andso I love.
(07:03):
You know the examples here.
I mean they're simple things.
Slack channel groups, employeeresource groups that are based
around.
Some of them are a little bit,I feel like if you can create
them more around people's ands,it's better.
That helps bridge generationaldifferences, it helps bridge DEI
(07:24):
differences, it helps bridgeall these other things that were
a little bit forced and didn'tquite land quite well, and so I
think it's great how it's, youknow, looking at the people that
work there as multidimensionalbeings.
That's right.
So why don't we find out whatelse you like to do?
Jeannie Walters (07:44):
That's right.
I was at a beautiful campuscorporate campus a couple years
ago and it was right when peoplewere coming back to the office
and there was a lot of outdoorspace and it was beautiful.
And at one of the lunches whenI was there, I looked over and
there was a whole table of youngwomen knitting and they were
(08:07):
just sitting there knitting,drinking their coffee, talking,
and they said, yeah, that kindof happened because a lot of
people took that up as theirhobby during the shutdown and
they didn't want to give it up,and so they found each other and
they created this lunchtimeknitting group it up.
And they said that it actuallyencouraged some of them to come
(08:29):
to the office on those daysright, because they might not
have other reasons to go, butthey wanted that camaraderie and
they wanted to share theirpassion and learn from each
other and everything else.
So there were some of thosethings in this article as well
about you know, even book clubsand things like that can really
help people.
And then I also liked that Ithink it was ServiceNow who's
(08:51):
investing in like a wholeplatform that encourages
lifelong learning of not justthings that apply at work, but
kind of investing in yourselfthat way, and so I think it is
really looking at people in adifferent way and making sure
we're considering that they'rethree-dimensional,
(09:12):
multi-dimensional people whohave all these different
interests.
So it's a cool thing to exploreif you really think about it
and get creative.
John Garrett (09:20):
In another example that was great too.
Roland Sargent was another onethat was interviewed for this
and he was saying that he DJs onthe side a little bit and
somebody found out and they werelike, hey, do you want to DJ
this like executive retreatthing?
And sure yeah, now the CEOknows them.
They're like on a first namebasis, like and so now you know
(09:40):
you're not just one of, you knowa thousand, you're you.
Yeah, why don't you just standout like that?
I mean, that's my career journey, you know, is that and and it
wasn't the work and a reallystrong resume that I definitely
had, it was the outside of workhobby is what the thing that
people remember.
Because who you are is not whatyou do.
Jeannie Walters (10:03):
Right
John Garrett (10:03):
Who you are is bigger and richer.
So if you show people who youare, then they're going to
remember that and you're goingto stand out and and I mean that
worked for this guy in thearticle and it's it was awesome
to read and be like, oh, it's acool, cool thing.
Jeannie Walters (10:17):
I think, going back to those uh, you know stats
that I talked about, like byinvesting in this for their
employees, these organizationsrealize like, hey, this is going
to help with employee retention, this is going to help people
be more engaged.
Because we're investing in themin these different ways, we're
allowing them to kind of share.
And I think that when you kindof read all the things that
(10:40):
people want in a workplace,belonging is so important and to
your point, like, belongingmeans basically being seen and
understood and so if we canshare who we really are and
share that, that helps us withthat sense of belonging.
John Garrett (10:57):
Yeah, and just feeling valued.
You know I'm valued as John,not valued as senior analyst.
Jeannie Walters (11:04):
Right
John Garrett (11:04):
You know.
And so you know.
It's simple, things like justhey, I know you were DJing this
weekend, Do you have anypictures?
Or how did it go?
Or asking some question aroundpeople's hands and have a
follow-up question or two, andthen it's oh wow, that's cool,
you remembered me for me type ofthing.
Jeannie Walters (11:25):
Yeah.
Exactly that's really cool.
So I think the other thing thatI found kind of fascinating
about that knitting group was,to your point, like it was not I
mentioned young women becausethat's what stood out to me, but
it was all different ages, alldifferent types of people.
And I actually worked with thatcompany for a while and I
remember asking about it and theone of the executives said oh,
(11:49):
that thing has grown.
That thing now has like severaldifferent days where they, you
know, work together and theyhave different tutorials for
each other and all thesedifferent things.
So it's become a whole thing.
But then he said now there's,like you know, all these
different ones, like there's oneof a group of people who are
really into rebuilding cars.
(12:10):
So they would.
He's like it was great.
It was like brought in picturesof their children.
You know, they brought in apicture of their car and they
passed it around and they foundpeople would would appreciate
that.
So I think it is reallysomething that people will, even
when they move on from thatplace, they're going to remember
those types of things andprobably still have those
connections, which are a lotmore meaningful too.
John Garrett (12:34):
Absolutely
Jeannie Walters (12:34):
All good, and so when we talk about engaged
employees especially, I thinksometimes people assume engaged
means people who are activelylike, engaged, productive and
doing their jobs and all of that.
But some of that comes down tothis idea of passion, like
passion for their work, passionfor each other, passion for
(12:56):
customers.
And so this next thing I wantto talk about it's from Harvard
Business Review, which makesfrequent appearances here on CX
Pulse Check.
John Garrett (13:07):
Never heard of them.
I know right, Never heard ofthem.
Jeannie Walters (13:10):
And the title is to leverage employee passion
save it for when it counts.
And this really stood out to mebecause, instead of making a
case for, like, you have to getpassionate employees and you
have to do all this, it wasalmost making the case of watch
out for your most passionateemployees because they might
burn out faster.
(13:31):
And so making that connectionbetween how can you protect them
, how can you make sure thatthey're taking care of
themselves, because if we're notcareful, these are the people
who will burn out quickly.
So curious on your thoughts onthis.
John Garrett (13:44):
Yeah, no, I mean, that's absolutely right.
I mean, I think the one thingthat's really interesting,
though, is that it's importantto note that you don't have to
be passionate about exactly thework that you do.
You just have to be passionateabout something, and then you
can take that enthusiasm andenergy and that inertia moving
(14:04):
forward and then, okay, now goknock out that spreadsheet.
You know, or whatever it is.
So you don't have to love, youknow, accounts payable, but you
just have to be alive and thentake that energy.
And so I think when I readarticles like this, they a lot
of people assume you have to bepassionate about your job and
you don't.
You really don't.
(14:24):
I mean, you just have to begood at it and like it and you
know.
But it doesn't have to be thereason you exist and the reason
you wake up every morning.
It really doesn't.
There's something else.
But then you do the job to makethe money to go do the cool
stuff you know, type of thing.
So so don't.
I think a lot of this articlepoints towards being passionate
(14:45):
about your work, and so I justwant people to understand like
you don't have to be, but if youare passionate about your work,
then that's great.
And put up some guardrailsbecause, yeah, our brain and is
not our friend all the time, andmore is not always better, and
you will self-sacrifice and cutoff all kinds of limbs and
(15:10):
appendages for success and it'slike yeah, what are you doing?
You know a good leader will helpyou, like some organizations
that I work with still do, likebillable hours, professional
services world, and I asked themdo you have a report of people
who don't reach a minimum numberof hours?
You know they're below thebillable hour.
(15:31):
Oh yeah, absolutely, we're allover those people.
Like I said, well, do you havea similar report for people that
reach too many billable hours?
Why would we have that?
Well, because those people areabout to explode.
So you know, I mean that's themore important report is the
people that are running a littletoo hot for too long and you
(15:51):
have to step in and let themknow.
Look, you don't have to keepproving it, you know, dial it
down, because you're going toburn out and be done.
And now you're not good to me,you're not good to yourself,
your family or your friends orour clients and customers.
And so, yeah, I mean absolutely, as a people-centric leader,
(16:12):
you have to keep an eye on thatas well.
Sure, it makes you look good,but when they fall off a cliff,
then it hurts.
So you know help them helpthemselves.
Jeannie Walters (16:22):
Well, and I think it's interesting, because
all of us kind of come into theworld with a certain lens or
certain things that we'repassionate about and we can't
always flip the switch right, wecan't always say like, woohoo,
spreadsheets, if that's not ourthing.
And one of the things that Ihave to connect with sometimes,
because you know, as a businessowner, you're doing everything,
(16:46):
whether you like it or not,right?
So I have been running thisbusiness for almost 16 years and
, yeah, I've got to deal withspreadsheets sometimes or things
that really I'm not super into.
But I try to take a step backand think about the why.
Like okay, I'm, I'm looking atthe spreadsheet because I want
to know X, because that's goingto help me do Y, and once I get
(17:08):
into that, then I can like flipa switch of.
It helps me stay engaged andget a little more passionate
about those things that I'm notsuper enthusiastic about.
And I try to remind my teamthat all the time too.
Like don't just do things, likeI never want you to just do
things because I asked you to dothem.
Like that's, that's my children.
John Garrett (17:30):
That's what.
That's what that's for.
Jeannie Walters (17:32):
But if, if there are things that, like you
know you're doing and you're notsure why, then we need to fix
that, because that is where wethat's where you get the best
output too is where peopleunderstand the why and it helps
them connect with that and Ithink that helps prevent some of
that burnout of you know, go,go, go and do the billable hours
(17:53):
and all that.
But at the same time, we also,as much as we want people to
bring their whole selves to work.
There are certain things wedon't know about people, like
they might be battling thingsthat we don't know about, and so
being aware of that as a leader, I think, is so important too,
because you never really knowunless they you know something
(18:15):
dramatic or they are sharingsometimes too much right.
So we're asking people to walkthis line and I think that's
part of helping people avoidthat burnout is really
understanding exactly who theyare.
John Garrett (18:31):
Yeah, I mean it's, you know what's professional
has changed rapidly, even in thelast five years, let alone the
last hundred years, and and soyou know it's it's it's people
understanding that, like thatdefinition has always changed,
but what's unprofessional hasalways existed and that's if you
(18:53):
inhibit some, your ability orsomeone else's ability to do
their job well, then that'sunprofessional.
So don't do so, you know.
But other than that, gloves areoff like go nuts.
You know, get to know eachother.
We're around each other morewaking hours than our families
and friends, and you know we're,you know, all in on this with a
team.
So, you know, get to know eachother a little bit.
(19:16):
And then, yeah, if people arerunning a little too hot, you
know, pull them aside as afriend, because you've created
these relationships, thesenon-billable minutes between the
billable hours, if you will,that where you create this
relationship.
So you're pulling your friendaside and be like, hey, I'm a
little concerned, are you okay?
Like you know, what are yourunning from?
Like you don't have to keepproving this like wait, you know
(19:37):
, and uh, um, type of thing, andand so, yeah, I mean, I thought
, I thought it was, it was great, um, that you know, as a
friendly reminder of like youdon't have to keep dialing it up
and I feel like that's, that'sa lot of this.
This culture is, you know, side, hustle side.
No, none of it, none of it'srevenue generating, none of
(19:58):
these side things are.
They're just things that Ienjoy doing, you know, and and
this hustle and this more, more,more, more for what you know
and like at some point, likeenough's enough type of thing
and think long term.
Jeannie Walters (20:13):
Yeah, yeah.
And I think often of thecontact center agents who are
out there who burn out becausewe basically ask the impossible.
We say deal with all theseangry people all day long which
we have a physiological responseto.
We can't help it, we can't sayto ourselves I'm not going to
react to this when somebody'syelling at you.
(20:37):
And so that creates all thisstress, all this cortisol, all
this stuff.
And then we're like, well, youdidn't meet your numbers right,
you didn't take enough calls,and what we've realized there's
been kind of an evolution inthis in the last decade plus.
But some really forwardthinking places realize like
this is not sustainable.
(20:57):
So they're putting in likewellness requirements kind of
throughout the day and they'resaying like, okay, after this
many calls or whenever you want,here's how you take a break
here.
Some actually put in likelittle exercise rooms with like
bikes and stuff so people canjust like move.
Some of them have nature pathsand stuff.
So they're really trying tothink about what do humans need?
(21:20):
Humans need fresh air, humansneed water, humans need rest.
Humans need these things.
And if we stick somebody in acubicle and say good luck, of
course they're going to belosing it with a customer by the
end of the day.
So I think we have to totallyreframe that discussion as well,
because otherwise we're notjust burning them out, we're
(21:43):
actually creating real problemsfor the business and the
customer and who knows what else.
So I mean there have beenlawsuits over people who have
been, you know, sworn at by acontact center agent.
John Garrett (21:56):
That's amazing.
Jeannie Walters (21:57):
And you look at them and you're like, hmm, that
was like the 12th or 13th callin an hour.
Who knows what they've beenthrough right.
So I think we have to reallybroaden our view of what does it
mean to care for people whowork at our organizations?
John Garrett (22:11):
Yeah, because it's a human being behind that job
title.
Yes, and you wouldn't treatyour assets that are digital
like that.
You wouldn't have yourcomputers on running 87 programs
all at the same time for fivedays in a row.
So then, why should humans bethe same?
They're even more fragile.
Jeannie Walters (22:30):
What a good segue.
It's like we planned it, John,that is
John Garrett (22:33):
Well, it's like I had homework to be on this show,
so you know hey
Jeannie Walters (22:39):
Well, you did your homework, because our next
one.
John Garrett (22:42):
Co-host look at me .
Jeannie Walters (22:46):
It's all about the people.
So we've talked about this acouple of times in kind of
various forms.
Starbucks keeps evolving rightnow because they're really
trying to find their place again.
So the most interesting thinghere this is from Business
Insider and the headline isStarbucks doubles down on
baristas, not AI, to fix itscustomer crunch.
(23:07):
And this has been reallyinteresting for me to watch,
because they went through awhole thing a couple of years
ago about, you know, creativedrink orders and all these like
things that actually slowedeverything down, and what they
also realized was that more andmore people were relying on
mobile ordering, but they didn'thave the right system for that
(23:30):
versus the drive-through and allthis.
Then they started reallygetting into AI and some
functionality there to havedifferent order-taking models,
and essentially what they foundwas you know what?
We're not fast enough.
That's what everybody'scomplaining about.
There were reports severalmonths ago about people waiting
40 minutes four zero minutes fora drink, and that was
(23:53):
consistent.
So people were really startingto get upset and they were
abandoning Starbucks, and theirwhole kind of ethos is about
being the third place too, andthey were shutting down cafes,
they were going, all thesethings.
So now they're starting to sayyou know what, maybe we need to
bring people back, Maybe we needmore baristas, more of that
(24:14):
human touch, more of the thingthat people go to Starbucks for.
Sometimes it's for thatfriendly face.
So this really stood out to mebecause, while Starbucks is
doing this, the flip side ismore and more, especially, fast
food places are starting to useAI for order taking and all
(24:34):
sorts of things, and maybe thatwill speed up and maybe
customers will appreciate thattoo, because they're different
experiences.
But it's just, I think it'skind of a bold move for
Starbucks and I think that it'ssomething that people might be
craving right now.
So so what did you think aboutthis?
John Garrett (24:50):
Yeah, no, I mean I , I agree.
I mean how many, how manycoffees can a shop put out in an
hour?
You know, like, at some pointwe've reached capacity, right,
and you know, I don't care ifthere's online, like you can
order on the app, but you knowyou're going to wait 40 minutes
where, if you show up at thestore and the line's long,
you're going to be like, yeah,I'm just not getting it.
(25:12):
Um, you know, but if youalready ordered, well I guess
you're waiting.
Um, and there's, there's onlyso many that can be made.
I mean, you just can't do it.
I mean they got Starbucksacross the streets from other
Starbucks, so just go to thatone, I mean, and they still
don't have enough, you know.
So you know, at some pointenough is enough and good for
Starbucks for being like, youknow what, we've reached
(25:33):
capacity and we need humansbecause they're more efficient
at these special orders, at ifsomething malfunctions, if
there's a tweak or whatever.
Like, AI and bots are great whenthings are humming and, yeah,
you can't compete, but whenthere's a curve ball or there's
special order Susie in front ofyou, then you're in trouble and
(25:57):
so, or you get me, uh, whodoesn't even know the size names
.
So I'm just getting a mediumand uh, and they're like oh, do
you mean a blah blah, blah?
That's not even a word, it's amedium.
And so they're like I can'tfind it on the screen.
Of course you can't, becauseI'm a human and stop being dumb.
But no, I love it.
(26:17):
You know because, especiallyfrom the customer service side
of things, you know, having ahuman being hand you that is
great, and having a human beingmisspell your name on the cup is
all part of the experience.
Jeannie Walters (26:32):
Exactly
John Garrett (26:32):
mean, it's all part of it.
Jeannie Walters (26:33):
There's nothing like it.
There's nothing like it.
John Garrett (26:35):
I mean it really is.
I mean and it's.
But having a human hand, thatto you, and seeing the people
behind there, I think you'remore sympathetic.
I think you're a little morelike.
You know, when you're behindthe app and you order and then
it says it's going to be 40minutes and you become a
keyboard warrior and you're justyelling at.
You don't see the face and thehuman behind that counter, and
so I think it's great wherethey're like you know what
(26:58):
enough's enough, and this iswhere we're at.
Jeannie Walters (27:01):
I love it too.
I think that it will be reallygreat to see the results that
they get too, because the otherthing that this article didn't
necessarily talk about but Ihave thought about is that this
you know, when you have humansworking, they notice things,
right.
Before they become patterns,before they become data points,
(27:21):
and so if they're finding thatyou know what everybody's
ordering this dumb unicorn drink, which was a thing a couple
years ago right, oh right, it'slike 15 minutes to make.
Can we please stop making this?
Eventually, that goes to theright people.
Even things like their past CEOdid this, where he went into
different stores and worked inthe store and he was kind of
(27:44):
like wait, we've got so manydifferent cup options that one
of the things that was happeningwas orders were made wrong
because they were put in thewrong cup and so they'd have to
start all over and it wastedcups and it wasted times.
And he was like we need to goback to just like having a few
sizes of cups and making iteasier for everybody and so
little things like that.
That can improve both the speedof the experience and the
(28:06):
quality of the experience.
That is because humans noticeand until we get to a place
where the robot is literally youknow some guy we call joe who
is just like part of the family,then I think we need people to
really look for thoseimprovements to be made and be
(28:28):
the ones who are there testingthings and trying things out and
all that, and they can look youin the eye and say sorry about
the wait.
Right, that matters.
So I think that this is areally good thing to watch and
I'm excited about it.
And I'm curious, though yourname is John, so how often do
they misspell it?
John Garrett (28:49):
I get the J-O-N.
It's like I didn't say Jonathan.
Jeannie Walters (28:53):
I'm so sorry that happens to you.
It's the worst.
John Garrett (28:57):
I just walk out with my medium and a hot
chocolate and I'm like that'sall you want.
You don't want any, all kind ofno, I don't.
I'm simple, I'm pretty.
I go to Starbucks like twice ayear and that's about it, and
it's because somebody elsewanted to go.
Jeannie Walters (29:13):
Well, next time you go you'll have to show you
know, show me a picture if theyspelled your name right.
Cause I want that for you.
John Garrett (29:24):
See, this is why we're friends.
This is why we're friends,right here.
Jeannie Walters (29:27):
Cause Jeannie is not spelled right most of the
time.
I'll tell you that much.
But
John Garrett (29:32):
There's some varieties.
Yeah, and like, are you a genie,or is your name Jeannie,
That's right.
Or something in-between.
Jeannie Walters (29:39):
Or Jenny, or Janine, or yeah, there's all
sorts of them, yeah.
John Garrett (29:43):
There, you go.
Jeannie Walters (29:54):
So, yeah, it's fun.
I always have to listen, likewhat are they going to call me,
I dunno, it's up.
It's a mystery.
Well this was so fun John.
I know it would be.
I want people to know, first ofall, your book is fantastic
"What's Your And?
It's full of great stories ofpeople who have shared things
about their lives beyondprofession and it's just a great
inspirational book.
And then you also are a keynotespeaker, you're a facilitator,
you're an emcee.
You do all sorts of greatthings at events.
(30:14):
So if people want to reach outand learn more about you, what's
the best way for them toconnect?
John Garrett (30:19):
Yeah, I mean you can go to thejohngarrettcom or
whatsyourandcom, as a lot of thepodcasts and the book stuff, so
yeah.
Jeannie Walters (30:27):
Excellent, and, yes, the podcast too, and so
we'll put all of that in theshow notes, of course.
So I encourage you all look outfor John and think about what's
your and.
That's always a good question,all right, well, thank you for
being here, and thank all of youfor being here at the
Experience Action Podcast andfor listening.
(30:48):
As you know, on the weeks we'renot doing CX Pulse Check, I
answer your questions, so leaveme a voicemail at askjeannievip.
Maybe you'll be on the nextepisode of Experience Action.
Thanks for being here,everybody.
See you next time.
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