November 28, 2023 • 25 mins
Ready to decode the new age of customer experience? Join Jeannie and her insightful guest Nate Brown, co-founder of CX Accelerator, as they decode the latest customer experience trends in the face of evolving consumer behavior. They uncover the mysteries of the "hermit consumer" - a seismic $600 billion shift in consumer behavior brought about by the pandemic. Listen in as they discuss its impact on industries like entertainment and dining and how businesses can adapt to lure customers back into physical spaces.
Ever wondered why some businesses are just a joy to deal with? They reveal the secret sauce - simplicity. Tune in as they dissect how straightforward customer experience can outshine competitors and why it's crucial to consider every touchpoint in the customer journey. Discover the intimate connection between customer satisfaction and the longing for community. They also put the spotlight on Duolingo's bold logo change, sparking the conversation on how such alterations can impact customer perception. Buckle up for an episode filled with insights, discussions, and the cold hard truth about the world of customer experience.
Resources Mentioned:
Experience Investigators Learning Center
Want to ask a question? Visit askjeannie.vip to leave Jeannie a voicemail! (And don't forget to follow Jeannie on LinkedIn! www.linkedin.com/in/jeanniewalters/)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jeannie Walters (00:17):
Hey, hey, everybody, it is Jeannie Walters
and we are back for anotherepisode of Experience Action.
Now this is our special monthlyCX Pulse Check edition, where
we talk about things that arehappening out there in the real
world of customer experience.
Now, in the past we've hadPaige from our team as the
co-host, but today we have aspecial co-host, Nate Brown.
Nate Brown (00:46):
Hey, what's going on everybody?
Good.
Good to see you, Jeannie.
Well, thank you so much forhaving me.
I think I'm the firstnon-Experience Investigator
guest, so I'm so happy to behere.
This is amazing.
Jeannie Walters (00:53):
That is absolutely true.
So this is our special monthlyepisode where we talk about
what's happening in the world.
How can that inspire CX leaders?
What do we need to know aboutcustomer expectations moving
forward?
So I'm thrilled to have you aspart of that conversation.
Before we get further, I wouldlove for you to introduce
yourself to the ExperienceAction audience here.
Nate Brown (01:16):
Yeah, Nate from Nashville.
I love fishing out of my kayakand pickleball and disc golf.
I got two great kiddos and awhole brood of chickens.
Just loving life out here inMiddle Tennessee and I'm a
student of CX.
And, ever since I came upthrough a customer service
environment and started askingquestions like where do these
tickets come from and how can wemake them go away upstream.
(01:37):
I've been addicted to the workof customer experience and I
love the puzzle that it is so,so excited to be here.
Jeannie Walters (01:45):
Well, we are thrilled to have you, and you
know you also are a co-founderof CX Accelerator, which is a
fantastic CX community.
If any of our listeners don'tknow about it, I recommend you
check that out too, because youhave really developed a special
community there, and I thinkthat that's a skill set that you
could bring out to the world aswell.
(02:06):
So if anybody's looking forthat connection between
community and customerexperience, give Nate a call, so
, or find him on CX Accelerator.
There we go, all right.
So we have a couple fun topicsto talk about.
Some of them are kind of macroand some of them are a little
more micro.
But, my hope is that we talkabout things that impact you,
(02:27):
whether you're in B2C or B2B, ormaybe you're leading an
internal team around employeeexperience.
These are the things that wepay attention to, and a lot of
times people ask me, "Where doyou get your CX information,
like, how do you stay up on CX?
And I find that's a reallychallenging question because I
(02:47):
really like to look beyondcustomer experience.
Right, we have to look at wherecustomers are.
So before we move on, Nate, I'mcurious where do you get your
kind of information aboutcurrent events, customer
experience, all those things?
Nate Brown (03:02):
Gosh, I love reading good books.
I just had this one recommendedto me The Four Disciplines of
Execution.
So, like you, I like to gobeyond the world of customer
experience, which can be alittle bit of a vacuum at times,
and it's like what are peoplethinking about?
What are people talking aboutbeyond CX that are going to
impact the world of CX?
That's right.
For me.
(03:22):
For me, Jeannie, it's abouthaving good conversations with
smart people.
I mean, that's my favorite way,and then, when they do
recommend resources to me, I'mgoing to jump in and consume
those.
Jeannie Walters (03:32):
That's a great way to approach things.
So, speaking of smart people,The Economist has some smart
people working for them.
One of my favorite resourcesbecause it is kind of this
perspective from the UK aboutwhat's happening in mostly North
America, and I always find itjust kind of an interesting
(03:56):
perspective.
One of the things that theytalked about recently was this
idea that we are moving into aphase that they call "welcome to
the age of the hermit consumer,and the sub headline here is
really what grabbed me.
"The world economy iswitnessing a $600 billion with a
(04:16):
B a year shift in behavior.
Nate Brown (04:19):
Yikes!
Jeannie Walters (04:20):
And you'll see, if you're watching this, you'll
see behavior is spelled with aU because this is from the UK.
So the concept here is somethingwe've been talking about for
several years, because whenCOVID hit and everything went on
lockdown, we got verycomfortable in our homes.
We got very comfortableunderstanding that we had great
(04:43):
entertainment at our fingertips,we can stream, we can order in
food, we can do all of thesethings, and so people are really
spending dollars on making kindof their hermit lifestyle work,
and so one of the things that Ithink really stood out for me
in exploring this article andjust this topic in general, is
(05:05):
thinking through what does thatmean for all of these places
that we used to gather right thegym, even going out for
restaurant meals with groups orthe theater, or going to see
movies or whatever?
We have to give people more andmore reason to show up because
(05:26):
things evolve, and if you areoffering exactly what you
offered before we went throughthis huge behavioral shift, then
you're probably gonna be leftbehind.
So are you?
First of all, do you feel likeyou are a hermit consumer,
sometimes Nate, and, and what doyou think about this?
Nate Brown (05:44):
No, not at all.
So I, I personally, am not butI am absolutely seeing this
happen inside of my own family.
Yeah, my, my 12 year olddaughter cracks me up.
I mean, is I got to drag herout of the house for just about
anything and I make fun of herso bad.
Within 45 seconds of comingback in the door, she's got her
(06:05):
cozy clothes back on and she'slocked in.
And, heaven forbid I asked herto leave, leave the house again.
So you are so correct in thatJeannie in that we've got to got
to give people a good reason toleave if we're gonna get them
out of their homes.
It's so interesting.
Jeannie Walters (06:21):
It is, and I think one of the examples of
this is you know, there was ahuge big deal about that Top Gun
movie this summer.
Right, Top Gun 2 went reallywell in the theater, and
partially because they did thiswhole push about, it's really
important to see in the theater.
And let's go back.
And everybody said, okay,movies are back, but the same
(06:43):
actor, the same level ofproduction, Mission Impossible,
the next movie, did not do verywell in the theater, and so
people were kind of like what'sgoing on?
And I think that when you lookat giving people a reason, it's
really important to kind ofgenerate that sense of almost,
like that sense of this, this isonly happening right now and we
(07:05):
have to participate that way.
Anybody who knows me knows I'm ahuge fan of live theater, I
love musicals, I love plays, andso we have a great and amazing
theater community in Chicagohere, and so we make it a habit
to go see different productions.
But one of the things I foundis that there are more people in
(07:26):
those audiences who, first ofall, have forgotten what it's
like to be in public, right, sothey're commenting or they're
making a lot of noise becausethey're so being at home.
And then the other thing is I'mnoticing more people are
leaving at intermission.
Nate Brown (07:43):
Oh no.
Jeannie Walters (07:44):
And this is totally anecdotal.
I should say that I have nodata on this, this is just my
observation, but I thought aboutthat and I was like I wonder if
it's because we're not justcompeting with, like, is this an
enjoyable thing in the moment.
You're competing with, "Well, Icould go home to my cozy
clothes and I could, you know, Iwore real pants or whatever,
like people are.
So I think that there's so muchabout thinking through, like,
(08:08):
what are we really competingwith?
We're competing with not justthe other play in the other
theater.
We're competing with that senseof I can do this at home, I
could.
I can watch Hamilton on DisneyPlus.
You know, like all those things, that it's not the same.
I love Hamilton, I've seen itfour times and I've watched on
(08:29):
Disney Plus more than once, butit's not the same.
And so how do you give peoplewho are just used to these
things that idea of what it'slike to come be part of that
community?
How do you give them enough toreally make that decision?
So I think it's just somethingthat's going to affect all of us
, and I think that there's anelement of this that will impact
B2B that people aren't seeingyet.
(08:49):
But you know, we have to givepeople a reason to come to the
office.
We have to give people a reasonto do something that if we're
asking them to come to theoffice and sit on zooms all day,
that's not gonna work.
So really thinking through,like, how are we competing with
the, the hermit lifestyle thatpeople are really gravitating to
?
So it's a great article.
If you do that, get TheEconomist.
(09:10):
It is subscription, but Ihighly recommend checking this
out.
So let's jump into another one,and this one is really quite
macro.
This is about the US AmericanCustomer Satisfaction Index.
US, American, that's redundant.
(09:31):
I shouldn't have said that.
But when we're talking aboutthese things, we're really
talking about those big ways tocollect data.
What are people thinking?
How are they feeling abouttheir experiences?
And in Q3, it went up and theheadline that grabbed me here
was that you know what?
It actually has pretty dramaticimplications for the economy
(09:55):
when the customer satisfactionindex goes up or down, and so it
actually impacts consumerspending and GDP growth, gross
domestic product growth.
So I just think you know wetalk all the time about proving
the return on investment ofcustomer experience.
It doesn't get much more macrothan this about how it can
(10:16):
impact actual, real results,revenue, dollars, spent all
those things.
So what do you think about thisNate?
Like, it's probably not asurprise to us, right, because
we understand these connections.
Nate Brown (10:31):
Well, I'll tell you what the surprise is is that the
satisfaction index did in factgo up.
Because in talking with, as anexample just this week in my
pickleball friends, one of themin particular was like I've
never seen customer service sobad.
People have just forgotten whatit even means, and I hate
having to interface with brandsthese days and there's a lot of
(10:54):
sentiment strong sentiment outthere about the nature of
customer service and how much ithas changed.
So I am a little bit surprised.
I think it's incrediblyencouraging and I wonder how
much of this, Jeannie, is drivenby our improvements in the
technology area.
Maybe these customers areactually getting really good
self-service and that's what'simproving, which would be a
(11:17):
little sad to me because, as acommunity builder and somebody
who loves equipping the agentswho are doing this work and
making that such a high valueinteraction but I do hesitate.
I wonder what it is that'sdriving this up.
But then I think about BradCleveland had this amazing
keynote at ICMI recently and hehad a similar correlation that
(11:37):
he made.
There's a simple index.
Matt Lyles would love this,wouldn't he.
There's brands that areespecially simple to do business
with, and they looked at thosebrands that are at the very top
of that index and how much theyoutperformed their competitors.
And it was astronomical, likeunbelievable, the outperformance
(11:58):
quadrant of these organizationswho are deemed to be simple to
do business with.
So I mean, there's some thingshere that we got to wake up and
recognize.
Jeannie Walters (12:07):
That's a great thing to highlight, because I
think we often think of servicecustomer service as the friendly
people.
How are they helping all ofthat?
But it's really, when you lookat this and you think about
customer satisfaction in general, that's about the entire
end-to-end experience.
(12:27):
That's about how simple is itto find what I need, how, all of
those different things.
One of the things I remember acouple of years ago was when the
big box stores kind of came tolife in the last couple of
decades and everybody had thesebig, huge stores.
And one of my friends said hergrandmother would call her and
(12:49):
say are you going to go to oneof those stores?
Could you pick up this, Couldyou pick up this?
And she was like you could goand she said no, they're too big
and they're hard on my feet.
And I was like that's probablysomething that they hadn't
thought of when they're puttingall this together.
So we have to really thinkabout all of those touch points
and how can we make it easier,more simple, more
(13:10):
straightforward for the peoplewho are trying to just get
something done.
But to your point, another subheadline here is that customer
satisfaction still remains at alow historical level.
So, while it's coming back,it's coming back from a pretty
low point, so hopefully we seethis trend continue for all the
(13:35):
reasons we just talked aboutconsideration of making it
simple, more self-serviceoptions, because we're learning
people want those options.
Easier technology, betteromni-channel choice, all of
those things that are soimportant to customers.
But there's optimism here, soI'm excited we have a little
(13:55):
optimism.
Nate Brown (13:57):
These things are connected.
I mean the story one and storytwo are connected.
So we're talking about givingpeople a good reason to get out
of the house and go experiencecommunity.
Yeah, as a customer, as aconsumer, right, but like.
So I was introduced thatapparently there's a large
sandwich franchise and I neverheard this before but they're
(14:17):
famous for their employeeshating on customers.
I was here the stories aboutthis, I was like I never.
But then I recently went intoone of these places and I swear
this woman hated me that I wasin there, like hated the fact
that I walked in.
Jeannie Walters (14:33):
You have to give the brand now.
Well, no way.
Nate Brown (14:39):
But so it's like yeah, of course I'm not going to
leave the house.
Jeannie Walters (14:41):
Right.
Nate Brown (14:42):
If I'm going to go out there and be hated on by
these folks, that hopefully we'dbe able to come out and
experience some level ofcommunity.
Yeah, and camaraderie with thepeople and the brands that are
out there.
Give me a reason, pull me outand then, as a consumer,
hopefully I'd be moreincentivized to spend more and
go out there and do more andcontribute to the global economy
(15:04):
.
So I think there is aconnection here.
Jeannie Walters (15:07):
I agree with you.
Now I'm going to flip what youjust said a little bit on its
head, because here in Chicago wehave the world famous.
You may not know it, but it'sWiener Circle and they are known
.
They are known, it's a hot dogjoint, they're openly, they are
known for abusing customers inthe funniest ways, and so you go
(15:29):
in there.
You know what you're talkingabout.
Jason Kelce, the footballplayer not dating Taylor, just
showed up there recently andthey did a whole video thing
about talking back.
And then they changed themarquee and instead of saying
welcome Jason Kelce, they saidwelcome Taylor's boyfriend's
brother.
(15:49):
That's so bad.
It was great.
And so we really like there'ssomething there, there is a
community around that whole likecheeky idea, and so you can
like.
But I think it's about likethat started a long time ago,
but it became more famous associal media and everything took
(16:11):
off.
But when I lived in the cityeons ago, like we would go there
and you knew what you weregetting into when you went to
Wiener Circle, and so I thinkthat there is this element of,
you know, creating an authenticcommunity.
You'll attract certain people,and that's part of this too.
We cannot be everybody,everything to everybody, and so
(16:31):
we have to decide who are we toour customers and how do we show
up, no matter what, and how canwe be consistent and authentic
about that?
So you're right, it's allweaving together, and next time
you're in Chicago, let's go toWiener Circle, because it's a
lit of fun.
Nate Brown (16:44):
You will never catch me in a Wiener Circle.
Jeannie Walters (16:49):
It's so fun, all right.
So the last one that I have foryou.
It's a little silly and it'salso it could be considered
brilliant and clever, dependingon who you ask.
Love it.
So Duolingo, which is the appthat is used for learning
different languages, very, verypopular app.
They gamify it, all of thesethings.
(17:11):
So there were headlines acouple of weeks ago because
their logo started showing up ina different way.
Now, for those of you who can'tsee the visual usually it's a
bird and it looks pretty normal.
This it looks like the face ismelting off of the little app
icon.
And so people started talkingabout this.
They were like what ishappening?
(17:31):
How the content?
You know why Duolingo ismelting.
And then they have anotherheadline here.
This is from Digital Trends,saying how to get rid of the
Duolingo melting app.
Now here's the other thing.
If you were a member of theStreaks Society or a super
member meaning that maybe youpay a little more you had the
(17:54):
option of using those icons, butit otherwise.
What would you do if you hadseen this?
If you were just looking atyour phone and you saw this
melting app icon, what would youdo, Nate?
Nate Brown (18:07):
I would click it.
Jeannie Walters (18:08):
Yep, that's exactly right.
That is exactly right.
So they were trying.
They realize an app like thisis all about usage right.
The more that people engagewith it, the more likely they're
going to be loyal, the morethey're going to renew, all
those things.
So they were trying to getpeople to simply click on the
app and so, by doing this crazykind of melting version of their
(18:33):
logo, it's still identifiable,as Duo lingo, but it's just
different enough and weirdenough where people are like oh
my gosh, is my app broken right?
and then you click on it andyou're in it.
And so there were hugediscussions about this on reddit
and other platforms, and someusers, of course, said this is
so dumb.
I can't believe they did thisand some users said this is
(18:56):
great because now I'm learningSpanish again, and so I think
that it's just another likelittle creative tweak and, as
you know, I'm a fan of micromoments right, these little
moments that can otherwise beneglected.
But if you turn up the volume alittle bit on these little
moments, they really help engagethe customer to move through
(19:18):
the next step of the journeywith you, and I think this is
just a great example ofleveraging a neglected micro
moment.
You know all these other appsthat we have on our phone.
We see them every day.
They become kind of likewallpaper.
We don't really interact withthem, and just tweaking a little
was enough to get people tointeract, and it increased their
(19:41):
usage for sure.
So.
Nate Brown (19:43):
Jeannie, I think, I think it's brilliant.
I mean, it's just amazing toknow what.
What are we fighting against?
We're fighting against inertia.
Jeannie Walters (19:48):
That's right.
Nate Brown (19:50):
Let's look at the brilliant research from Prime to
Perform, and they're andthey're talking about if you
want to create great experiences, you want people to care about
your brand.
You got to develop a sense ofcuriosity and excitement about
it.
That's exactly right.
What's the antin into that?
It's inertia.
You follow a rut, you're doingthings like you've always done
them before, and brands fallinto ruts and we, as a consumer,
(20:10):
put them in a little box andtuck it away and they're gone.
Yep, you got to light that fire.
You got to establish that senseof urgency that John Kotter
talks about.
Little play on the fact thatthe build, the bird is melting.
I can't fire under your brandand under your customer to
reinvigorate that relationshipwith them.
You've got to do that regularlyin order to help them follow
(20:30):
along in the journey with you.
Jeannie Walters (20:32):
That's exactly right, and I think part of this
is this goes to everything wejust talked about too.
We are fighting against inertia.
We are fighting against, "youknow what?
I don't need to do anything, Idon't need to go anywhere, I've
got everything I need, wow.
We are fighting against all ofthose things and because of that
, like, we are also feeling like, well, they don't really care
(20:53):
about me because they haven'tdone anything for me lately,
right, as a customer.
But with something like this, ittakes engagement.
We need to make sure that theyare actually connecting with the
very thing they signed up for,and so it you know, what this
reminded me of a little bit isthat whole like gamification of
(21:14):
fitness.
In a way, like how you know,and on the picture we're looking
at here on the phone, there'sthe Apple Fitness app, and I
find myself, like there arecertain days I'm like, well gosh
, if I don't do it today, thenmy streak will be over.
Oh, right now, who cares aboutmy streak?
Nobody, that's right, nobodycares about it.
(21:35):
But it's enough of that littleact of engagement so that I feel
like, oh gosh, I need to dothis because of my streak.
So I think that it's just it's,it's kind of an example of
really clever design tweak,really clever gamification even
though that's not what they'recalling it and just really a
great way to reengage with folkswho maybe otherwise wouldn't be
(21:59):
engaged in that moment.
So, so that's what we have forCX Pulse Check today.
Anything else you want to add,Nate, about what's happening in
the world or customer experiencein general.
Nate Brown (22:10):
I've been having some tough conversations with
some folks and I know you justsaw Justin Robbins.
I talked to him this morning.
I had a great conversation withBill Staikos recently, was
blown away at MSU Tom DeWittshow in Michigan State
University.
It's crazy to me how much thework of CX is changing and the
customer psychology is changingeven faster.
(22:32):
Yes.
So I mean we need to bechallengers, we need to be
disruptors right now.
We need to foster our own senseof curiosity.
That's why I love your showhere, Jeannie.
I mean, we're on the pulse,like we're creating the next
generation of CX, whatever thatlooks like.
However we term that, there'ssome huge stuff going on right
now and I feel like and this isme, like that was all kind of,
(22:56):
yeah, this is happening.
Now, Nate Brown.
Community's at the heart of it.
To me, I mean, that's where,like, we don't compete against
AI.
Why would we?
Let it do the incredible stuffthat it does?
We shouldn't be competingagainst it.
We should be embracing it to dowhat we can do incredibly as
humans.
So what do we do?
That's so good.
(23:17):
We cultivate community.
We cultivate great connectionswith people.
So let's do that in theexperiences that we're creating.
Let's earn that loyalty, let'sdraw people out of their houses,
and the way we're going to dothat is through community and
giving people a meaningful senseof identity.
Jeannie Walters (23:35):
Amen, amen, yeah, and I think the whole
discussion about community is sointeresting because for years
now there's been a wholediscipline around community
management.
Right, and often that is withcustomers or on behalf of
customers, but those teams oftendon't talk to the actual
customer experience teams.
(23:56):
They're not connecting what thecustomer insights team is
gathering to the community andso, or vice versa.
So there should be a two-waystreet of communication there to
build, not just from you know,learning about what customers
want and building the communityaround it, but the community
will tell you so so much abouthow customers behave, what their
(24:20):
expectations are, what's reallyappealing to them, all of those
things so like, if you're notconnected with your community
management folks and you have acustomer community.
This is your signal to reachout right now and connect,
because it's my.
Nate Brown (24:33):
This is your melting app icon.
Jeannie Walters (24:35):
There you go, love it, love it.
Well, that's a perfect mic dropmoment.
So I think that's great forthis month, Nate.
So thank you so much for beingthe very first co-host outside
of the XI team here, and we aregoing to be including, you know,
people from our community.
We're so lucky in the customerexperience world.
We have such a great communityof people who really connect and
(25:00):
share, and I can't wait tofeature more of them on CX Pulse
Check every month here atExperience Invest, here at
Experience Action.
And don't forget, if you dohave a question for me, you can
leave me a question anytime as avoicemail at askJeannie.
vip, and then that's what I doevery other episode, as I answer
(25:23):
those questions, so do not beshy.
So, Nate, I'll be listening foryour question, so I hope you
leave me a voicemail.
Nate Brown (25:29):
I'm going to know, I want to know what your favorite
disc golf disc is.
But I'll ask you, oh jeez.
Jeannie Walters (25:33):
That one.
We might.
You might be waiting on thatone for a while, but thank you
again so much and thank youeverybody for being here with us
, for being listeners toExperience Action.
Hey, hey, everybody, it is Jeannie Walters
and we are back for anotherepisode of Experience Action.
Now this is our special monthlyCX Pulse Check edition, where
we talk about things that arehappening out there in the real
world of customer experience.
Now, in the past we've hadPaige from our team as the
co-host, but today we have aspecial co-host, Nate Brown.
Nate Brown (00:46):
Hey, what's going on everybody?
Good.
Good to see you, Jeannie.
Well, thank you so much forhaving me.
I think I'm the firstnon-Experience Investigator
guest, so I'm so happy to behere.
This is amazing.
Jeannie Walters (00:53):
That is absolutely true.
So this is our special monthlyepisode where we talk about
what's happening in the world.
How can that inspire CX leaders?
What do we need to know aboutcustomer expectations moving
forward?
So I'm thrilled to have you aspart of that conversation.
Before we get further, I wouldlove for you to introduce
yourself to the ExperienceAction audience here.
Nate Brown (01:16):
Yeah, Nate from Nashville.
I love fishing out of my kayakand pickleball and disc golf.
I got two great kiddos and awhole brood of chickens.
Just loving life out here inMiddle Tennessee and I'm a
student of CX.
And, ever since I came upthrough a customer service
environment and started askingquestions like where do these
tickets come from and how can wemake them go away upstream.
(01:37):
I've been addicted to the workof customer experience and I
love the puzzle that it is so,so excited to be here.
Jeannie Walters (01:45):
Well, we are thrilled to have you, and you
know you also are a co-founderof CX Accelerator, which is a
fantastic CX community.
If any of our listeners don'tknow about it, I recommend you
check that out too, because youhave really developed a special
community there, and I thinkthat that's a skill set that you
could bring out to the world aswell.
(02:06):
So if anybody's looking forthat connection between
community and customerexperience, give Nate a call, so
, or find him on CX Accelerator.
There we go, all right.
So we have a couple fun topicsto talk about.
Some of them are kind of macroand some of them are a little
more micro.
But, my hope is that we talkabout things that impact you,
(02:27):
whether you're in B2C or B2B, ormaybe you're leading an
internal team around employeeexperience.
These are the things that wepay attention to, and a lot of
times people ask me, "Where doyou get your CX information,
like, how do you stay up on CX?
And I find that's a reallychallenging question because I
(02:47):
really like to look beyondcustomer experience.
Right, we have to look at wherecustomers are.
So before we move on, Nate, I'mcurious where do you get your
kind of information aboutcurrent events, customer
experience, all those things?
Nate Brown (03:02):
Gosh, I love reading good books.
I just had this one recommendedto me The Four Disciplines of
Execution.
So, like you, I like to gobeyond the world of customer
experience, which can be alittle bit of a vacuum at times,
and it's like what are peoplethinking about?
What are people talking aboutbeyond CX that are going to
impact the world of CX?
That's right.
For me.
(03:22):
For me, Jeannie, it's abouthaving good conversations with
smart people.
I mean, that's my favorite way,and then, when they do
recommend resources to me, I'mgoing to jump in and consume
those.
Jeannie Walters (03:32):
That's a great way to approach things.
So, speaking of smart people,The Economist has some smart
people working for them.
One of my favorite resourcesbecause it is kind of this
perspective from the UK aboutwhat's happening in mostly North
America, and I always find itjust kind of an interesting
(03:56):
perspective.
One of the things that theytalked about recently was this
idea that we are moving into aphase that they call "welcome to
the age of the hermit consumer,and the sub headline here is
really what grabbed me.
"The world economy iswitnessing a $600 billion with a
(04:16):
B a year shift in behavior.
Nate Brown (04:19):
Yikes!
Jeannie Walters (04:20):
And you'll see, if you're watching this, you'll
see behavior is spelled with aU because this is from the UK.
So the concept here is somethingwe've been talking about for
several years, because whenCOVID hit and everything went on
lockdown, we got verycomfortable in our homes.
We got very comfortableunderstanding that we had great
(04:43):
entertainment at our fingertips,we can stream, we can order in
food, we can do all of thesethings, and so people are really
spending dollars on making kindof their hermit lifestyle work,
and so one of the things that Ithink really stood out for me
in exploring this article andjust this topic in general, is
(05:05):
thinking through what does thatmean for all of these places
that we used to gather right thegym, even going out for
restaurant meals with groups orthe theater, or going to see
movies or whatever?
We have to give people more andmore reason to show up because
(05:26):
things evolve, and if you areoffering exactly what you
offered before we went throughthis huge behavioral shift, then
you're probably gonna be leftbehind.
So are you?
First of all, do you feel likeyou are a hermit consumer,
sometimes Nate, and, and what doyou think about this?
Nate Brown (05:44):
No, not at all.
So I, I personally, am not butI am absolutely seeing this
happen inside of my own family.
Yeah, my, my 12 year olddaughter cracks me up.
I mean, is I got to drag herout of the house for just about
anything and I make fun of herso bad.
Within 45 seconds of comingback in the door, she's got her
(06:05):
cozy clothes back on and she'slocked in.
And, heaven forbid I asked herto leave, leave the house again.
So you are so correct in thatJeannie in that we've got to got
to give people a good reason toleave if we're gonna get them
out of their homes.
It's so interesting.
Jeannie Walters (06:21):
It is, and I think one of the examples of
this is you know, there was ahuge big deal about that Top Gun
movie this summer.
Right, Top Gun 2 went reallywell in the theater, and
partially because they did thiswhole push about, it's really
important to see in the theater.
And let's go back.
And everybody said, okay,movies are back, but the same
(06:43):
actor, the same level ofproduction, Mission Impossible,
the next movie, did not do verywell in the theater, and so
people were kind of like what'sgoing on?
And I think that when you lookat giving people a reason, it's
really important to kind ofgenerate that sense of almost,
like that sense of this, this isonly happening right now and we
(07:05):
have to participate that way.
Anybody who knows me knows I'm ahuge fan of live theater, I
love musicals, I love plays, andso we have a great and amazing
theater community in Chicagohere, and so we make it a habit
to go see different productions.
But one of the things I foundis that there are more people in
(07:26):
those audiences who, first ofall, have forgotten what it's
like to be in public, right, sothey're commenting or they're
making a lot of noise becausethey're so being at home.
And then the other thing is I'mnoticing more people are
leaving at intermission.
Nate Brown (07:43):
Oh no.
Jeannie Walters (07:44):
And this is totally anecdotal.
I should say that I have nodata on this, this is just my
observation, but I thought aboutthat and I was like I wonder if
it's because we're not justcompeting with, like, is this an
enjoyable thing in the moment.
You're competing with, "Well, Icould go home to my cozy
clothes and I could, you know, Iwore real pants or whatever,
like people are.
So I think that there's so muchabout thinking through, like,
(08:08):
what are we really competingwith?
We're competing with not justthe other play in the other
theater.
We're competing with that senseof I can do this at home, I
could.
I can watch Hamilton on DisneyPlus.
You know, like all those things, that it's not the same.
I love Hamilton, I've seen itfour times and I've watched on
(08:29):
Disney Plus more than once, butit's not the same.
And so how do you give peoplewho are just used to these
things that idea of what it'slike to come be part of that
community?
How do you give them enough toreally make that decision?
So I think it's just somethingthat's going to affect all of us
, and I think that there's anelement of this that will impact
B2B that people aren't seeingyet.
(08:49):
But you know, we have to givepeople a reason to come to the
office.
We have to give people a reasonto do something that if we're
asking them to come to theoffice and sit on zooms all day,
that's not gonna work.
So really thinking through,like, how are we competing with
the, the hermit lifestyle thatpeople are really gravitating to
?
So it's a great article.
If you do that, get TheEconomist.
(09:10):
It is subscription, but Ihighly recommend checking this
out.
So let's jump into another one,and this one is really quite
macro.
This is about the US AmericanCustomer Satisfaction Index.
US, American, that's redundant.
(09:31):
I shouldn't have said that.
But when we're talking aboutthese things, we're really
talking about those big ways tocollect data.
What are people thinking?
How are they feeling abouttheir experiences?
And in Q3, it went up and theheadline that grabbed me here
was that you know what?
It actually has pretty dramaticimplications for the economy
(09:55):
when the customer satisfactionindex goes up or down, and so it
actually impacts consumerspending and GDP growth, gross
domestic product growth.
So I just think you know wetalk all the time about proving
the return on investment ofcustomer experience.
It doesn't get much more macrothan this about how it can
(10:16):
impact actual, real results,revenue, dollars, spent all
those things.
So what do you think about thisNate?
Like, it's probably not asurprise to us, right, because
we understand these connections.
Nate Brown (10:31):
Well, I'll tell you what the surprise is is that the
satisfaction index did in factgo up.
Because in talking with, as anexample just this week in my
pickleball friends, one of themin particular was like I've
never seen customer service sobad.
People have just forgotten whatit even means, and I hate
having to interface with brandsthese days and there's a lot of
(10:54):
sentiment strong sentiment outthere about the nature of
customer service and how much ithas changed.
So I am a little bit surprised.
I think it's incrediblyencouraging and I wonder how
much of this, Jeannie, is drivenby our improvements in the
technology area.
Maybe these customers areactually getting really good
self-service and that's what'simproving, which would be a
(11:17):
little sad to me because, as acommunity builder and somebody
who loves equipping the agentswho are doing this work and
making that such a high valueinteraction but I do hesitate.
I wonder what it is that'sdriving this up.
But then I think about BradCleveland had this amazing
keynote at ICMI recently and hehad a similar correlation that
(11:37):
he made.
There's a simple index.
Matt Lyles would love this,wouldn't he.
There's brands that areespecially simple to do business
with, and they looked at thosebrands that are at the very top
of that index and how much theyoutperformed their competitors.
And it was astronomical, likeunbelievable, the outperformance
(11:58):
quadrant of these organizationswho are deemed to be simple to
do business with.
So I mean, there's some thingshere that we got to wake up and
recognize.
Jeannie Walters (12:07):
That's a great thing to highlight, because I
think we often think of servicecustomer service as the friendly
people.
How are they helping all ofthat?
But it's really, when you lookat this and you think about
customer satisfaction in general, that's about the entire
end-to-end experience.
(12:27):
That's about how simple is itto find what I need, how, all of
those different things.
One of the things I remember acouple of years ago was when the
big box stores kind of came tolife in the last couple of
decades and everybody had thesebig, huge stores.
And one of my friends said hergrandmother would call her and
(12:49):
say are you going to go to oneof those stores?
Could you pick up this, Couldyou pick up this?
And she was like you could goand she said no, they're too big
and they're hard on my feet.
And I was like that's probablysomething that they hadn't
thought of when they're puttingall this together.
So we have to really thinkabout all of those touch points
and how can we make it easier,more simple, more
(13:10):
straightforward for the peoplewho are trying to just get
something done.
But to your point, another subheadline here is that customer
satisfaction still remains at alow historical level.
So, while it's coming back,it's coming back from a pretty
low point, so hopefully we seethis trend continue for all the
(13:35):
reasons we just talked aboutconsideration of making it
simple, more self-serviceoptions, because we're learning
people want those options.
Easier technology, betteromni-channel choice, all of
those things that are soimportant to customers.
But there's optimism here, soI'm excited we have a little
(13:55):
optimism.
Nate Brown (13:57):
These things are connected.
I mean the story one and storytwo are connected.
So we're talking about givingpeople a good reason to get out
of the house and go experiencecommunity.
Yeah, as a customer, as aconsumer, right, but like.
So I was introduced thatapparently there's a large
sandwich franchise and I neverheard this before but they're
(14:17):
famous for their employeeshating on customers.
I was here the stories aboutthis, I was like I never.
But then I recently went intoone of these places and I swear
this woman hated me that I wasin there, like hated the fact
that I walked in.
Jeannie Walters (14:33):
You have to give the brand now.
Well, no way.
Nate Brown (14:39):
But so it's like yeah, of course I'm not going to
leave the house.
Jeannie Walters (14:41):
Right.
Nate Brown (14:42):
If I'm going to go out there and be hated on by
these folks, that hopefully we'dbe able to come out and
experience some level ofcommunity.
Yeah, and camaraderie with thepeople and the brands that are
out there.
Give me a reason, pull me outand then, as a consumer,
hopefully I'd be moreincentivized to spend more and
go out there and do more andcontribute to the global economy
(15:04):
.
So I think there is aconnection here.
Jeannie Walters (15:07):
I agree with you.
Now I'm going to flip what youjust said a little bit on its
head, because here in Chicago wehave the world famous.
You may not know it, but it'sWiener Circle and they are known
.
They are known, it's a hot dogjoint, they're openly, they are
known for abusing customers inthe funniest ways, and so you go
(15:29):
in there.
You know what you're talkingabout.
Jason Kelce, the footballplayer not dating Taylor, just
showed up there recently andthey did a whole video thing
about talking back.
And then they changed themarquee and instead of saying
welcome Jason Kelce, they saidwelcome Taylor's boyfriend's
brother.
(15:49):
That's so bad.
It was great.
And so we really like there'ssomething there, there is a
community around that whole likecheeky idea, and so you can
like.
But I think it's about likethat started a long time ago,
but it became more famous associal media and everything took
(16:11):
off.
But when I lived in the cityeons ago, like we would go there
and you knew what you weregetting into when you went to
Wiener Circle, and so I thinkthat there is this element of,
you know, creating an authenticcommunity.
You'll attract certain people,and that's part of this too.
We cannot be everybody,everything to everybody, and so
(16:31):
we have to decide who are we toour customers and how do we show
up, no matter what, and how canwe be consistent and authentic
about that?
So you're right, it's allweaving together, and next time
you're in Chicago, let's go toWiener Circle, because it's a
lit of fun.
Nate Brown (16:44):
You will never catch me in a Wiener Circle.
Jeannie Walters (16:49):
It's so fun, all right.
So the last one that I have foryou.
It's a little silly and it'salso it could be considered
brilliant and clever, dependingon who you ask.
Love it.
So Duolingo, which is the appthat is used for learning
different languages, very, verypopular app.
They gamify it, all of thesethings.
(17:11):
So there were headlines acouple of weeks ago because
their logo started showing up ina different way.
Now, for those of you who can'tsee the visual usually it's a
bird and it looks pretty normal.
This it looks like the face ismelting off of the little app
icon.
And so people started talkingabout this.
They were like what ishappening?
(17:31):
How the content?
You know why Duolingo ismelting.
And then they have anotherheadline here.
This is from Digital Trends,saying how to get rid of the
Duolingo melting app.
Now here's the other thing.
If you were a member of theStreaks Society or a super
member meaning that maybe youpay a little more you had the
(17:54):
option of using those icons, butit otherwise.
What would you do if you hadseen this?
If you were just looking atyour phone and you saw this
melting app icon, what would youdo, Nate?
Nate Brown (18:07):
I would click it.
Jeannie Walters (18:08):
Yep, that's exactly right.
That is exactly right.
So they were trying.
They realize an app like thisis all about usage right.
The more that people engagewith it, the more likely they're
going to be loyal, the morethey're going to renew, all
those things.
So they were trying to getpeople to simply click on the
app and so, by doing this crazykind of melting version of their
(18:33):
logo, it's still identifiable,as Duo lingo, but it's just
different enough and weirdenough where people are like oh
my gosh, is my app broken right?
and then you click on it andyou're in it.
And so there were hugediscussions about this on reddit
and other platforms, and someusers, of course, said this is
so dumb.
I can't believe they did thisand some users said this is
(18:56):
great because now I'm learningSpanish again, and so I think
that it's just another likelittle creative tweak and, as
you know, I'm a fan of micromoments right, these little
moments that can otherwise beneglected.
But if you turn up the volume alittle bit on these little
moments, they really help engagethe customer to move through
(19:18):
the next step of the journeywith you, and I think this is
just a great example ofleveraging a neglected micro
moment.
You know all these other appsthat we have on our phone.
We see them every day.
They become kind of likewallpaper.
We don't really interact withthem, and just tweaking a little
was enough to get people tointeract, and it increased their
(19:41):
usage for sure.
So.
Nate Brown (19:43):
Jeannie, I think, I think it's brilliant.
I mean, it's just amazing toknow what.
What are we fighting against?
We're fighting against inertia.
Jeannie Walters (19:48):
That's right.
Nate Brown (19:50):
Let's look at the brilliant research from Prime to
Perform, and they're andthey're talking about if you
want to create great experiences, you want people to care about
your brand.
You got to develop a sense ofcuriosity and excitement about
it.
That's exactly right.
What's the antin into that?
It's inertia.
You follow a rut, you're doingthings like you've always done
them before, and brands fallinto ruts and we, as a consumer,
(20:10):
put them in a little box andtuck it away and they're gone.
Yep, you got to light that fire.
You got to establish that senseof urgency that John Kotter
talks about.
Little play on the fact thatthe build, the bird is melting.
I can't fire under your brandand under your customer to
reinvigorate that relationshipwith them.
You've got to do that regularlyin order to help them follow
(20:30):
along in the journey with you.
Jeannie Walters (20:32):
That's exactly right, and I think part of this
is this goes to everything wejust talked about too.
We are fighting against inertia.
We are fighting against, "youknow what?
I don't need to do anything, Idon't need to go anywhere, I've
got everything I need, wow.
We are fighting against all ofthose things and because of that
, like, we are also feeling like, well, they don't really care
(20:53):
about me because they haven'tdone anything for me lately,
right, as a customer.
But with something like this, ittakes engagement.
We need to make sure that theyare actually connecting with the
very thing they signed up for,and so it you know, what this
reminded me of a little bit isthat whole like gamification of
(21:14):
fitness.
In a way, like how you know,and on the picture we're looking
at here on the phone, there'sthe Apple Fitness app, and I
find myself, like there arecertain days I'm like, well gosh
, if I don't do it today, thenmy streak will be over.
Oh, right now, who cares aboutmy streak?
Nobody, that's right, nobodycares about it.
(21:35):
But it's enough of that littleact of engagement so that I feel
like, oh gosh, I need to dothis because of my streak.
So I think that it's just it's,it's kind of an example of
really clever design tweak,really clever gamification even
though that's not what they'recalling it and just really a
great way to reengage with folkswho maybe otherwise wouldn't be
(21:59):
engaged in that moment.
So, so that's what we have forCX Pulse Check today.
Anything else you want to add,Nate, about what's happening in
the world or customer experiencein general.
Nate Brown (22:10):
I've been having some tough conversations with
some folks and I know you justsaw Justin Robbins.
I talked to him this morning.
I had a great conversation withBill Staikos recently, was
blown away at MSU Tom DeWittshow in Michigan State
University.
It's crazy to me how much thework of CX is changing and the
customer psychology is changingeven faster.
(22:32):
Yes.
So I mean we need to bechallengers, we need to be
disruptors right now.
We need to foster our own senseof curiosity.
That's why I love your showhere, Jeannie.
I mean, we're on the pulse,like we're creating the next
generation of CX, whatever thatlooks like.
However we term that, there'ssome huge stuff going on right
now and I feel like and this isme, like that was all kind of,
(22:56):
yeah, this is happening.
Now, Nate Brown.
Community's at the heart of it.
To me, I mean, that's where,like, we don't compete against
AI.
Why would we?
Let it do the incredible stuffthat it does?
We shouldn't be competingagainst it.
We should be embracing it to dowhat we can do incredibly as
humans.
So what do we do?
That's so good.
(23:17):
We cultivate community.
We cultivate great connectionswith people.
So let's do that in theexperiences that we're creating.
Let's earn that loyalty, let'sdraw people out of their houses,
and the way we're going to dothat is through community and
giving people a meaningful senseof identity.
Jeannie Walters (23:35):
Amen, amen, yeah, and I think the whole
discussion about community is sointeresting because for years
now there's been a wholediscipline around community
management.
Right, and often that is withcustomers or on behalf of
customers, but those teams oftendon't talk to the actual
customer experience teams.
(23:56):
They're not connecting what thecustomer insights team is
gathering to the community andso, or vice versa.
So there should be a two-waystreet of communication there to
build, not just from you know,learning about what customers
want and building the communityaround it, but the community
will tell you so so much abouthow customers behave, what their
(24:20):
expectations are, what's reallyappealing to them, all of those
things so like, if you're notconnected with your community
management folks and you have acustomer community.
This is your signal to reachout right now and connect,
because it's my.
Nate Brown (24:33):
This is your melting app icon.
Jeannie Walters (24:35):
There you go, love it, love it.
Well, that's a perfect mic dropmoment.
So I think that's great forthis month, Nate.
So thank you so much for beingthe very first co-host outside
of the XI team here, and we aregoing to be including, you know,
people from our community.
We're so lucky in the customerexperience world.
We have such a great communityof people who really connect and
(25:00):
share, and I can't wait tofeature more of them on CX Pulse
Check every month here atExperience Invest, here at
Experience Action.
And don't forget, if you dohave a question for me, you can
leave me a question anytime as avoicemail at askJeannie.
vip, and then that's what I doevery other episode, as I answer
(25:23):
those questions, so do not beshy.
So, Nate, I'll be listening foryour question, so I hope you
leave me a voicemail.
Nate Brown (25:29):
I'm going to know, I want to know what your favorite
disc golf disc is.
But I'll ask you, oh jeez.
Jeannie Walters (25:33):
That one.
We might.
You might be waiting on thatone for a while, but thank you
again so much and thank youeverybody for being here with us
, for being listeners toExperience Action.
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