Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ever wonder how to
transform a dream into reality
amidst life's chaos.
Today we're diving into such astory a really super cool story
with Hartwell Carson, avisionary who turned family land
into a breathtaking outdoorresort while balancing a
full-time job, raising kids andleading a non-profit.
Oh yeah, this was all duringthe challenges of the COVID
pandemic.
Hartwell's journey to begin anoutdoor business during COVID
(00:24):
was met with setbacks, likeneighborhood resistance to the
bike park, which was his firstidea.
But it led to a more harmoniousvision, restoring old cabins
and creating a serene, natureimmersive retreat, complete with
a professional gray tree house.
And we're going to unpack allof that in this episode.
We explore the story behindCold Springs Base Camp, where
Hartwell reimagined camping tomake it more accessible and
(00:47):
family friendly.
Imagine trading cumbersometents for cozy cabins equipped
with essentials and fire pits,offering families a seamless way
to reconnect with nature.
This easy to get to destinationis near popular hiking trails,
world class whitewater climbing,hiking and fishing.
It is the ultimate launchpadfor adventure seekers.
Finally, we'll dive into theart of crafting an off-the-grid
(01:09):
paradise, from solar-poweredcabins to a spring-fed cold
plunge.
Hartwell shares howsustainability and comfort come
together in this family-drivenendeavor.
It's not just a business.
It's a vibrant getaway,blending adventure and serenity.
So if you're looking to getinspired by the beauty of the
outdoors and the power offamily-driven adventure, this
episode is for you.
(01:30):
Let's jump in and discover howHartwell turned his vision into
a thriving, nature-filled havencalled Cold Springs Base Camp.
You're listening to ExplorationLocal, a podcast designed to
explore and celebrate the peopleand places that make the Blue
(01:51):
Ridge and Southern AppalachianMountains special and unique.
My name is Mike Andrus, thehost of Exploration Local.
Join us on our journey toexplore these mountains and
discover how they fuel thespirit of adventure.
We encourage you to wander far,but explore local.
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
During COVID people
did all kind of weird stuff.
You know like people, like big,tough dudes, started baking
bread, and so I was like weshould, you know, start an
outdoor rec business or whatever.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
But me and my wife
that's crazy, and it's not like
you had a million other thingsgoing on in your life at the
time, so yeah, I mean I had afull-time job.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I had two kids.
I have another nonprofit on theside.
Yeah, I had plenty of stuff todo.
I don't know why, but but it,it, it's been fun.
So we we started to try tostart a bike park in East
Asheville and the neighbors wentcrazy, went back to the drawing
board and we're like let's go,look for a great piece of land
somewhere that the neighborswon't go crazy.
And so I looked all around formonths and finally my
(02:50):
father-in-law was like youshould come look at this piece
of family land we have.
And it was the summer, theovernight summer camp spot for
his dad's camp, so my wife'sgranddad.
They had a summer camp on LakeSummit and it closed down in the
eighties but they kept theproperty and they would ride
horses or hike over to this youknow piece of land where they
did their overnighters orwhatever.
So they had these old cabinsand the first time I went there
(03:13):
I honestly was like, ah, it'snot that great.
It was so overgrown that youcouldn't see anything.
You couldn't get down to theCreek, there was a waterfall
that I couldn't see, and so butI went back in the winter and
was like, oh, this place isawesome.
Like I saw the cliffs and thewaterfall and the Creek and the.
You know, you could kind ofenvision, if you cleaned it up
and fix the old rundown cabins,that it could be something.
(03:33):
So we started on that.
We bought it from his sister,so he ended up with his sister,
so me and my father-in-lawbought it, and then we started
just cleaning it up, fixing thecabins up.
I had this vision of a kind ofa tree house resort.
But we had these cabins alreadythat were on the ground.
There were sort of theAppalachian trail, a frame kind
of style cabins Um, not, I'msorry, not like Adirondack, you
(03:57):
know, open air cabins, so butthey were all rotten and fallen
in.
We fixed those up, build acouple of tent sites and then
now we're kind of in the processof fulfilling the original
vision, which is building a treehouse.
So we're in final stages offinishing the tree house, which
is super cool.
It's like that thing's amazingthat show Treehouse Masters.
Have you ever seen it?
(04:17):
It's like watching that inperson.
Yeah, yeah we worked with thisamazing guy, mark Craven.
He's at Liminal Feats is hisbusiness Watching him out there.
He'd be hanging 30 feet off theground from a tree with a drill
like the size of a small car,you know, drilling a hole
through these giant trees, juststrapped in, pushing himself off
the tree to get enough leveragefrom the thing, putting these
(04:38):
big bolts in the tree, and soseeing all that come together is
pretty cool.
When my daughter was little,she was like dad, I want to, I
want to.
We would hang out in the tree.
In the front yard we had thisbig giant maple tree and you
could climb up and sit in thetree and she's like we should
build a tree house up here.
And I was like, yeah, we should.
And so I drilled one board andI was like this is the start of
(04:59):
the tree house and that's all Ihave.
And so she gave me crap for abunch of years.
She's like dad, there's, you'veonly put one board up.
So this is sort of myfulfilling my promise to my
daughter that I was going tobuild her a tree house, and this
one is way better than the oneI would have done.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
This is a pretty
sweet tree house.
Yeah, it's pretty awesome.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah, we got plumbing
, we got HVAC, but we're also
really high up in the trees.
It's super surrounded by woods.
You got a great view.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I love camping and
being outdoors, but I don't love
camping right next to randompeople, which is what most
campgrounds are.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
And so we've really
tried with our place to like put
you out in the woods, put youin a place to enjoy it, but not
have you be like five feet fromsome guy's RV.
And it's been great, it's superfun.
It's busy and hard, but it'sbeen really fun to like figure
all that stuff out and just playaround with.
My father-in-law bought aexcavator.
He's like we need to excavate.
I was like I don't do we reallyneed to excavate?
(05:54):
But now we have one.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I'm like yeah, we did
.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah, like we could
lift this big rock up.
That's so cool, that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Well, my first
exposure to this was for the
Outdoor Business Alliance.
We had one of the summersocials out there and this place
is beautiful because you havethis road in and then you have
your first rustic cabin that yourun into and I don't know how
many people that particularcabin sleeps.
But yeah, like you'redescribing open air, obviously
you've done a lot of reno on it.
There's a fire pit out front.
(06:20):
Then you got another areathat's down a path where we had
to kind of walk to and it wasjust the camping, a couple of
campsites down there, and thenanother area where I'm assuming
you could do like a rooftop tent.
You could drive down there anddo a rooftop tent and then you
hike up to another area whereyou had another cabin.
Then we hiked up to thewaterfall, which is amazing,
(06:41):
right on your property.
And then the last thing, it wassort of the creme de la creme,
as we kind of saw the tree house, the suspension bridge or
whatever kind of leading up toit.
And yeah, the whole, everythingabout this this place is, is
unique because you can be yourmost rustic person in your tent.
You can kind of step it up tobe an open air lodge.
You can do your own rooftoptent if you want.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah, I mean I love
camping, and probably a lot of
your listeners love camping too.
But camping is really difficult, it's a pain in the ass.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Let's be real, it's
hard.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
It's expensive.
You know you need a ton of gear.
When I look, you know like packmy whole truck and it's like,
oh, we're going camping for thenight and it's like full of
stuff.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
So one reason I
really love Cold Spring Base
Camp our spot is it's so easy.
Like you go to the cabins,there are beds, there are
mattresses, there's a camp stove, there's dishware, there's pots
and pans, there's firewood.
You know you really got to showup with your sleeping bag and
your food and if it rains youdon't spend the next six hours
like drying your tent out andcleaning your tent and cleaning
your thermo rest and all the mudoff of it.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
So it's kind of like
making camping camping easy,
which is, I think, what we'reall going for, at least, maybe
when we get to this age.
Right, I know it may be,because I'm getting old.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
But you know I used
to go like pack.
I had a three quarter lengththermo rest cause it saved
weight, you know and now I havea camper and a campground, you
know'm definitely not goinglight anymore.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
But it's great.
It's a beautiful spot and it'ssituated right in the middle of
a lot of really cool stuff.
We're not far from DuPont.
We're really close to Ride RockCreek, the bike park.
We're close to Ride Canuga,we're close to Flat Rock and
Saluda and the Green River andthe Gorge Zipline.
It's a great spot, you know,down the gorge or go paddle the
(08:29):
green river or go ride your bikeand do pond or whatever, and so
and I think that's why it'sbeen popular is it's, you know,
it's a spot people want to cometo and now you've got a really
cool spot to do it.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
So and this is a
family affair.
I mean, this isn't just youcontracting out, getting other
people to come at.
Y'all are doing the work, thekids are doing the work, all
y'all are doing the work.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yeah, it's fun.
I take my kids up there all thetime.
My daughter reluctantly works,but I pay her like a couple
bucks to clean the cabin.
So she feels good about that,but my son's all about it.
I'm like you want to go up toCold Springs?
He's like, yeah, and so herides his bike along the trail
but then he helps me build stuff.
And you know, by helps that'slike very generous term, but
he's fun to hang out with.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I have got him to
like uh, you know, roll some
paint around.
The other day I was like, okay,this is kind of.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
I saw that on the
bench.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
I was like all right,
we're doing some stuff, so but
it's cool.
I mean it's a great place togrow up, like.
I mean just hanging outside.
And you know, like I said, wehad an excavator and you know
there's every little boy'speriod of life where they're
obsessed with excavators.
So he was in that period and webought an excavator.
That's awesome.
So it took him out there thefirst time and we just like pick
(09:37):
rocks up, he'd go pick them up,and we'd pick them up, and he'd
go dump them, and we'd dumpthem on the ground, and so it
was pretty fun.
He's now like oh, excavators,whatever.
But it's a great way to grow upand we're in the middle of some
really cool projects.
It's really cool now.
What you saw is really cool,but in the very near future the
tree house will be done.
We're building an A-frame, acool little enclosed A-frame.
(09:59):
We have a bath house.
We have a sauna.
There's a box sitting thereright now with a sauna in it.
I just have to get around tobuilding the sauna.
There you go, and and I'm notlike super handy Well, you can
fool me, man.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
You're doing a lot of
stuff out there.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Well, I think people
you know.
It looks like I am on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
It's a lot of like
how do you do this?
Youtube videos and a lot offriends coming by and I'm like,
what do I do now?
But that's kind of fun too,like I'm getting way better at
stuff and I was hanging poplarsiding this morning but I don't
know how to do that, but itlooks good.
I made this angle cut.
My friend let me borrow hischop saw, you know, and so it's
(10:37):
fun.
I mean, I like doing that stuffand it's providing folks with a
great opportunity to getoutside and enjoy nature in a
way that isn't like a ton oftrouble.
So that feels good too.
And we see a lot of familiesout there, you know, and you
know, join a weekend togetherand you know that's what it's
all about.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
I love that.
Now the bath house.
I know that when I was outthere you had mentioned that you
were getting ready to sort ofbe under construction with it.
Where are you in theconstruction of the bath house
now?
Speaker 2 (11:04):
I mean like one, one
hundredth of the way there.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Okay, I thought it
was going to be done last
February.
So we have the foundation inand we have the septic in, okay,
so you're making progress.
Yeah, it doesn't look awesome,but everything takes way longer
than you think.
My dad told me a long time agohe's like take whatever estimate
you get for time and money andjust triple.
(11:28):
And it's very true, but as longas you don't get hung up on the
time and the money then, it'sgoing really well, but it'll
come together and the bathhousewill be nice because we'll have
water and showers.
We'll have a couple outdoorshowers, a couple stalls for
folks to use, and so I think weget a lot of potential mountain
(11:49):
bikers that are like you know,after you're done mountain
biking, it's pretty nice toshower off, so but we did put in
a cold plunge and so that'skind of an opportunity to get in
and shower off, and that's been.
That's been good, particularlyduring the hot summer months.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
And that's a
naturally spring, fed cold,
plunge right.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
We figured out if you
just put like a hose in the
creek and then the hose, youknow gravity would feed that big
, it's one of those big metal,you know feed bins or whatever
to get a tractor supply and thenthe water runs through, which
is great.
So then you get in there andyou're getting fresh water all
the time, so you don't have toclean it, you know, after every
use or whatever.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
That's nice, that's
very nice.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, we don't.
We didn't have power, or soit's like all right, well, how
are we going to do this?
And so we have solar in thecabins, solar light, solar
battery, we have water filtersthat you fill up out of the
spring.
That's nearby, and so at firstwe did that because we had to,
and now I really like it.
I think I'm going to keep thecabin solar and keep the water.
I mean, it's I don't know, it'skind of a off the grid feeling.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
The tree house will
have power and we do have a well
up there, so that'll be nice.
Now the tree house.
We have to describe this treehouse for people that haven't
seen tree houses like thisbefore, because this isn't just
a tree house that we remembergrowing up and smacking a few
boards against the, you know thetree and hoping it holds up.
No, this is yeah, this is it.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
We built tree houses
growing up and it was that it
was like a two by four and thenanother two by four like get up
the tree.
Yeah, this is like reallyprofessionally done.
If you've ever seen, you know,treehouse masters, like it's.
It's the real, the real deal.
There's a platform.
It's probably 25 feet at the,you know, at the high point, and
(13:29):
in the back it's a little bitlower.
There's a swinging bridge thatyou enter.
So you go up the trail, you goup the steps over the swinging
bridge and a lot of folks havesaid like why'd you do a
swinging bridge?
I'm like because swingingbridges are awesome.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
They're awesome.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
It's really cool.
It's really cool and it's likea really cool way to enter.
It's all supported by trees,five feet off the ground,
sitting on six by sixes.
Like that's not a treehouse,right, this is a tree house.
I was like we're doing a realtree house and it may be a crazy
(14:03):
idea, like a lot of folks arelike, what do you do if the
tree's down?
I was like I don't know, butit's really cool.
Right now, I always tell him tocall future heartwell and he'll
figure out.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
there you go, there
you go, yeah, we'll see.
Well, and the interior toowe're're talking about, I mean
the finishes and, as youmentioned, it's climate
controlled.
You have running water there,bathroom, the whole nine yards.
So, yeah, I mean this is kindof all the way, kind of back up
in the back of the property, soyou will still be able to be out
there in the middle of kind offeeling like you're in nowhere,
(14:36):
but you have all theaccoutrements of home.
I mean this.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, it's super
private, the guys there right
now there's a guy finishing itoff for me and he's amazing,
he's super good carpenter he's.
We took we had to cut down awalnut tree and so we build the
walnut into these slabs and ifyou're familiar with walnut,
it's beautiful, has this likedark pattern through the middle
of it and he's putting thosetogether right now into our
countertop and he put the.
(14:59):
We got some old barn wood thatwe did above the kitchen, and so
it's going to look really cool,but it's going to be really
comfortable.
And my thought is is like thetree house is kind of your high
end, all the comforts of home.
And then we have our open aircabins, which are, you know,
they have solar lights, theyhave a propane stove, they have
a bed, and so that's kind ofyour next rung.
(15:21):
And then we have the tentcamping.
So if you want to come tentcamping, but we'll also have the
A-frame too, which will beenclosed, and we'll probably
have heat in there too, and soonwe'll have a little something
for everybody.
But we have plenty of room togrow and expand and the thought
was like let's offer somethingfor everybody and then see what
people like you know, originallyI thought we would go heavy on
the tent camping and we put twosites in and those hadn't been
(15:44):
nearly as popular as the cabins.
So I was like, all right, well,cabins is where it's at.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
So Very cool.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
So we'll see.
And a year from now, I'd loveto talk to you again and see
what happened, absolutely,absolutely.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
And there are trails
around there too, so we
mentioned the waterfall and youhave that to hike to.
But we're not talking aboutjust these little, you know.
I mean it's not like climbingMount Mitchell or anything, but
I mean it's you can get aworkout in.
And when we were there, I meanyou know I remember my wife the
whole time going.
I wore the wrong shoes.
I wore the wrong shoes.
I didn't know we were doingthis, mike, I'm like, but you
(16:17):
can spend a whole day right onproperty.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, and you can
also just relax too, like I
forget that I love going out andadventuring as hard as possible
, but I forget.
A lot of people like to justrelax and so we hung some
hammocks over the Creek.
Um, we did build almost a mileof mountain bike trail so you
can mountain bike around theproperty.
It's a couple little trail tothe waterfall and there's 38
acres, so there's plenty ofopportunity to expand and as
(16:41):
soon as we get some time, I mean, that's really what I love
doing is like building trailsand, you know, exploring the
woods, and so once we wrap upsome of these big projects,
that's on my agenda for thewinter.
It's just like walk around andbuild trails and keep that
experience.
But we also back up to FallenCreek, the summer camp, and so
(17:01):
they have maybe 800 acres ofprotected land.
So the 38 acres feels muchbigger because you're right next
to that big piece of protectedland.
So that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, how do you
reserve it?
Is it like through Hip Camp orsomething like that?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, we're on Hip
Camp, airbnb, vrbo, but we also
have our website, socoldspringbasecampcom, and just
as, like a starting businessowner, I was like I don't know
what the best route is, so wekind of put it out on all these
places, which I think is smartbecause we definitely get people
from all of those places that Ithink wouldn't have found us
just, you know, through ourwebsite or through Instagram or
(17:33):
whatever.
So, how far booked out are youfinding yourself these days?
Well, weekends definitely bookup, but then weekdays there's
usually plenty of spot.
So, yeah, you can still find aspot for sure.
And one thing, particularlyduring COVID it's kind of
chilled a little bit now, but Idon't know about you, but during
COVID you couldn't get a campspot anywhere and so.
(17:54):
I think that was sort of why alot of these places like our
place took off and services likehip camp, which folks aren't
familiar with, is kind of theairbnb of camping yeah and it's
pretty cool.
You know, you have a tent site,you can have a cabin, um, and it
really services that market,which is cool.
Yeah, so if you're I know I'veused it before when you want to,
you know, say you want to go todavidson river campground but
(18:15):
it's full for like the nexteight months, so you can go on
hip camp and find a great placein Brevard or something like
that.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Yeah, and I like what
you said earlier about that too
, of just sort of getting awayfrom the crowds.
And I don't know if it's justbecause of my age, if we've been
doing as long as we have.
But you know, I feel likesometimes I have more seclusion
in my backyard than I feel likeI have at some of the campsites.
And I just made this comment tomy wife the other day that you
know, I kind of we live here andI can go out and do all this
stuff, but then I get to comeback and I'm at peace in my
(18:43):
backyard just as much as likewhen I had to travel to all this
stuff that wasn't the case.
But now that it's right here itgets even more difficult.
But when we left there thatnight, that was sort of our date
night, when we left to and feellike we're kind of away, we can
get away and we don't have theperson that's right next to us.
We don't have all that, we justtrying to.
(19:05):
It's a different experience, asI guess what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, you know, a lot
of the campgrounds are, you
know, they really pack you in,and particularly, I think, a lot
of private campgrounds like yougo to and it's just like RV, rv
, rv, and those are just notenjoyable to me, you know.
I don't know why, but they doseem to be popular.
I don't know why people driveout into the middle of nowhere
to camp next to a bunch ofstrangers.
(19:30):
That's not what I'm into.
And so we've tried to likespread our stuff out as much as
possible and like the goal wouldbe like when you're, you know,
in one of our cabins, you kindof, you know, don't know,
there's a lot of people aroundyou and some of our cabins were
already there.
So we kind of took what we had.
But a lot of the stuff we'rebuilding, we're making sure it's
like secluded and, you know,you're really tucked back in the
woods.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Oh, that's so great.
What are some of the futureplans for the for the base camp?
Speaker 2 (20:02):
got all the stuff
that you know we're the the
sauna this afternoon.
Poplar, siding on the A-frame,finished the bath house at the
end of the fall.
Once we had the bath house, wecan build the sauna, because
that's where the power comesfrom.
So soon you'll have like thesun and the cold plunge right
next to each other right on theCreek, and so that'll be cool.
You can go back and forth andthen if it, you know, depending
on what people like, like Icould totally see to build
another tree house.
We got some room to buildseveral more of the A-frame
(20:23):
cabins.
I've took like a visioningquest out there with our tree
house guy.
I was like, all right, let's goup on this cliff, you know, and
see like what can we do here.
And he's really cool and goodwith that too.
He's like, all right, we couldsit it on the cliff and hang it
off and connect to or we'll haveadditional tree houses in the
(20:44):
future, one or the other, oh,that's great, All right.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
so where do people go
to find out more information
about this cool camp?
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Yeah, so you can
follow us on Instagram.
We're ColdSpringBaseCamp andthen also our website,
coldspringbasecampcom.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Nice, easy to
remember.
Well, listen, man, I know thatyou have to get back to the camp
and keep working on all thesiding and all the bits and
pieces out there.
But, man, thanks for taking thetime to stop in and chat with
me a little bit.
I feel like you're the type ofperson that there's a million
other stories that are out thereand they're all maybe unrelated
, but I feel like they all kindof tie in and kind of part of
(21:17):
who you are.
But, yeah, you bring a lot ofenergy and a lot of good vibes
to this whole space, man.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yeah, it's a pleasure
.
Thanks for wrangling me andgetting me here.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
You got it man.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yeah, look forward to
talking to you again.
You as well, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Thank you for joining
us for this inspiring
conversation with HartwellCarson and the incredible story
behind Cold Springs Base Camp.
Nestled in a serene setting ofcliffs and waterfalls, this
family-built retreat is morethan just a destination.
It's an invitation to immerseyourself in the beauty of nature
while enjoying thoughtfultouches of comfort and
sustainability.
If you're looking for your nextadventure or simply a peaceful
(21:52):
escape, cold Springs Base Campis a perfect place to visit.
Imagine waking up to the soundsof nature and spending your
days exploring world-classbiking trails, hiking through
breathtaking landscapes orfishing on pristine rivers.
With easy access to outdooractivities and a welcoming
family-friendly vibe, this isyour ultimate launch pad for
adventure.
As Hartwell shared, cold SpringBase Camp is continually
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growing with exciting additionslike a bathhouse, sauna and more
, to make your stay even better.
Whether you're seeking aweekend getaway, a base for
outdoor pursuits or simply achance to unplug and recharge,
this destination has somethingreally special for everyone.
To learn more or start planningyour visit, check out Cold
Springs Base Camp online orfollow them on social media for
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updates and inspiration.
Trust us, you'll want to seethis incredible place for
yourself.
That's going to do it for thisepisode.
I hope you enjoyed it.
If you did, please subscribe,rate and leave us a review.
Your feedback helps us continueto bring you stories of how
these mountains and the outdoorsinfluence and shape our lives.
Join me on instagram andfacebook and drop me a note at
(22:57):
mike at exploration localcom ifyou ever have a suggestion for a
future episode or if you justwant to say hi, well, until next
time, keep exploring, dreamingand we'll see you out there,
maybe even at Cold Springs BaseCamp.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Thank you.