June 11, 2025 • 44 mins
As outdoor tourism continues to grow, how can mountain communities plan with intention—not just for visitors, but for the residents, businesses, and natural spaces that make them unique?
In this episode, I sit down with Corrina Ruffieux, Executive Director of Visit Haywood, to talk about Haywood County’s innovative approach to tourism. Their comprehensive 10-year destination master plan is designed not just to attract visitors, but to do so in a way that aligns with the values of the community and protects what makes the area special.
We explore how Haywood County’s plan is rooted in stewardship, inclusivity, and a commitment to attracting visitors who share the local values of environmental respect, community care, and responsible tourism. The plan’s focus is on sustainable growth that ensures long-term benefits for residents, local businesses, and the area’s exceptional natural assets.
Through community-driven engagement and a clear brand identity, Haywood County is proving that it’s possible to grow tourism while protecting the very things that make the place worth visiting in the first place.
Mike Andress
Host, Exploration Local
828-551-9065
mike@explorationlocal.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What does it take for a rural mountain community to
grow without losing its soul?
In this episode, we head toHaywood County, north Carolina,
a place where five distinctmountain towns are tucked
between the Great SmokyMountains, pisgah National
Forest, the Blue Ridge Parkway,and is surrounded by wild rivers
, scenic byways and a deep senseof place.
In recent years, like manyoutdoor destinations, haywood
(00:22):
County experienced apost-pandemic tourism surge.
Like many outdoor destinations,haywood County experienced a
post-pandemic tourism surge, andwith it came the pressing
question how do we welcomevisitors without compromising
what makes this place so specialto those who live here?
Rather than react, haywoodCounty chose to plan,
intentionally andcollaboratively.
Over 2,000 local voices cametogether to shape a
comprehensive 10-yeardestination master plan that
(00:44):
reflects shared values likestewardship, inclusivity and
working better together.
Alongside that vision came arefreshed Visit Haywood brand,
one that helps tell the story ofa region that's not only
beautiful but thoughtful in howit grows.
This plan isn't about chasingmore visitors.
It's about attracting the rightkind of visitors, those who
care, who connect and who leavethe place better than they found
(01:07):
it.
In today's conversation, we diveinto how this plan came to life
, what it means for the futureof Western North Carolina and
how Haywood County is setting anew standard for sustainable,
values-driven tourism.
To help us unpack it all, I'mjoined by Karina Refure, the
Executive Director of VisitHaywood.
Karina has been at theforefront of this planning
process, helping guide acountywide effort that balances
(01:30):
visitor experience withcommunity well-being.
From brand strategy todestination stewardship, karina
brings a deep understanding ofwhat it takes to create tourism
that works for everyone locals,visitors and the natural
environment alike.
So let's dive into thisthoughtful and inspiring
conversation about the future ofHaywood County and what it
(01:50):
truly means to be welcoming,intentional and better together.
You're listening to ExplorationLocal, a podcast designed to
explore and celebrate the peopleand places that make the Blue
Ridge and Southern AppalachianMountains special and unique.
My name is Mike Andrus, thehost of Exploration Local.
(02:14):
Join us on our journey toexplore these mountains and
discover how they fuel thespirit of adventure.
We encourage you to wander far,but explore local.
Let's go, karina, thanks somuch for being here today.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Good morning, Mike.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
I want to give listeners some context for those
who might not be familiar whatexactly is a destination
marketing plan and why is itsuch an important tool for
communities like Haywood County?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
There's probably a variety of different definitions
you could come up with for it.
For us, we really started theproject because Haywood County
saw a pretty significantincrease in visitation COVID and
post-COVID and we've all heardthe terms over-tourism and in a
rural community with lots ofnatural resources, we wanted to
(03:05):
be really careful and make surethat we plan for the future and
ensure that we don't get tochallenges like over-tourism and
other concerns that can arise.
And the other definition I'llthrow out there is like it or
not, change happens and if wehave a plan that's been
(03:29):
initiated in advance, it canreally help you address some of
those unplanned for changesbecause the plan is done
strategically.
So it's about who is HaywoodCounty, who do we want our
(03:52):
visitors to be.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
What do we want this destination to look like in 10
years and how do we all worktogether to get there?
You're going through thisrollout of the refreshed Visit
Haywood brand.
How does this identity reflectwhat makes the county unique?
And then, how are you allplanning to use this to tell
Haywood's story over the nextdecade?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
We embarked on two massive projects at the same
time by doing a master planconcurrently with a rebranding
initiative, and that was a lot,but a lot of it overlapped, and
I know we'll talk in a littlebit about community outreach,
and and that was a lot, but alot of it overlapped, and I know
we'll talk in a little bitabout community outreach and how
important that was.
But a lot of the questions thatwe were asking people about
(04:33):
Haywood County, its fivemountain towns, its assets, what
people love about our community, also get reflected in the
branding initiative.
So we did those.
We did the branding projectbecause our old brand was
fantastic but also so watereddown.
(04:55):
It was Visit NC Smokies and ifyou Google Smokies, visit
Smokies, nc Smokies, anycombination of the above there's
literally over 100 differentorganizations using some version
of that, and so, while Smokiesare so well known, it also made
it a lot harder for people tofind us.
(05:17):
So we did all this research and, ironically, the research came
back as something as simple asVisit Haywood.
It resonated with our visitorsand it also resonated with our
local stakeholders and it'sreally important when you're
doing a brand that you try tohave both.
How we roll it out is ineverything we do.
Of course it's always hard with.
(05:39):
We'll talk about Helene and howthat impacted Haywood a little
bit.
So we'll talk about Helene andhow that impacted Haywood a
little bit, but we launched ourbrand the day before Helene hit,
which was not very effective.
But the good news is now thatwe've been leveraging that brand
for coming on eight months.
People are talking about it,they hear it, they understand it
(06:00):
.
Visit Haywood.
It's actionable, people knowwhat it means and we're just
using it to help tell Haywoodstory, our authentic rural,
small town story.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Oh, I love that.
So one of the things that sortof caught my attention here
recently, since the last timethat you and I talked, were
these guiding principles, andwhat I'm referring to here and
what we're referring to is thisreally big plan.
It's a really thought out,well-crafted master plan.
It's about 138 pages if youread it end to end, but there's
(06:33):
a lot of really good stuff inthere and, for people that want
to, we're going to put a link inthe show notes.
But the guiding principles andthose things that you all really
kind of thought of bettertogether welcoming to all and
destination stewardship, thosekind of things really, as you
were going through this planningprocess, they seem to really
reflect not just the goals butthe values that you all have and
(06:55):
how those values are reallykind of shaping how this plan is
going to play out.
And I'd love to talk a littlebit just a little bit about some
of those guiding principles andwhy they were important right
from the outset.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
It's interesting, they really bubbled to the top
at the very beginning of thisprocess.
So developing this 138-pageplan was a solid year-long
process.
It was not short.
It involved a whole lot ofsurveys and outreach and
community input and all of thosethings.
(07:28):
And one of the tactics we usedto gather feedback were
one-on-one interviews with avariety of different
stakeholders, namely electedofficials, local mayors and
aldermen and the like, and evenin separate one-on-one
interviews they all kept onsaying a lot of the same things.
(07:50):
Better Together, namely comingto the top and being welcoming
to everybody, was just acrossthe board.
Destination Stewardship comeskind of separately than the
Better Together and welcoming toall, because almost half of
Haywood County is public landsand it's the number one reason
(08:12):
why people choose to come here.
So in order to ensure that wehave those lands for our future,
our children's future, etcetera, we have to protect them.
So the destination values werepretty much universally agreed
upon throughout the wholeprocess, throughout a 12 month
(08:35):
process, which is prettyimpressive.
But I really just so enjoyedseeing separate, individual
one-on-one interviews andsimilar themes coming to the top
.
It speaks to the authenticityof the folks that participated
in the process and thateverybody really was working
(09:00):
together to come up with thebest possible plan.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah, and it seems like it was a way to really
align all of your stakeholderstoo, like organically it was
aligning because you werehearing these things over and
over and over.
So I guess those are the waysthat it sort of bubbled to the
top.
Maybe you didn't start out withthe principles, I don't know,
maybe they just at the end of it.
This is just what came about asyou were kind of starting on
the front end of this plan.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
We did not start with really any outcome in mind,
other than probably knowing thatstewardship was going to be a
piece of the puzzle because ofwho Haywood County is.
But everything else that cameout of the plan truly
organically came out of the planthe research and the whole
(09:43):
process.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Nice and that seemed to lead to these pillars, if you
will, or these objectives, andthere were four major pillars
that I think you all laid out orthat really kind of came that
surfaced up and you guys sort orthese objectives, and there
were four major pillars that Ithink you all laid out or that
really kind of came thatsurfaced up and you guys sort of
laid out.
And so, building on theprinciples that we just talked
about, I love to kind of unpacka little bit what these four
pillars are, because it seemslike that really kind of guides
(10:05):
the rest of this conversation.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
The pillars are really a way of organizing all
of the work in the 138 pagesBecause you can look at this and
it's kind of overwhelming,right there's a whole lot of
objectives and strategies andtactics and it's a 10-year plan,
so it's not meant to becompleted in the next 12 or 24
(10:27):
months.
The four pillars just help usorganize ourselves so that we
aren't quite so overwhelmed whenyou're looking at the plan in
its entirety.
So we have number one, which iswhat destination management or
marketing organizations arereally well known for, and that
is strengthening awareness andperception of the Haywood County
(10:49):
brand, ie marketing, tellingour story.
Awareness and perception of theHaywood County brand, ie
marketing, telling our story.
How do we tell the HaywoodCounty story in a way that it
resonates with visitors andencourages people to want to
come here?
But that's not simple becausethere's a lot of beautiful
Western North Carolinacommunities that are our
neighbors, that have similarassets, similar stories.
(11:10):
So we just want to make surethat we're telling ours in a
slightly unique way andhopefully Haywood County then
becomes you know, gets put onsomebody's list that they want
to come vacation here.
The second bucket of work, orpillar, is to diversify tourism
product offerings andexperiences that enhance the
destination appeal for all.
(11:31):
The short version of that isproduct development.
What do we do beyond marketingto encourage people who have
already come to want to comeback, to build out the
experiences that Haywood Countycan offer, to ensure that we are
appealing to as many potentialvisitors as possible?
(11:55):
And I'll caveat that with thisis throughout the whole plan.
This is not about volume ofvisitors, it's about quality of
visitor, the right visitor.
At the end of the day, yes, ourultimate mission is to drive
economic growth and to drivespending at our local businesses
, and it keeps that economiccycle moving, but we still want
(12:20):
the right people to come here,so product development can
definitely help us do that.
The third pillar is to promotestewardship of our natural
resources and our outdoorrecreation opportunities.
Again, that's the number onereason people come here.
Our research very clearly showsthat and we are so blessed to
(12:40):
have 46 miles of the Blue RidgeParkway, second only to one
other county on the entirestretch of the entirety of the
Blue Ridge Parkway.
We are the biggest sectionNorth Carolina section of Great
Smoky Mountains National Park,including Kaloochee Valley,
which is where the elk werereintroduced and roam freely.
(13:01):
We have the Appalachian Trail,which is its own national park,
and we have Pisgah NationalForest, including Shining Rock
Wilderness.
So we have so many federalnatural assets and we really
want to work with our federalland partners and our visitors
(13:21):
and our local residents toprotect them and ensure that
they're here and continuing todrive our economy for decades to
come.
And then the fourth pillar isreally about us, the Haywood
County Tourism DevelopmentAuthority, as a business, as an
organization.
How do we have the bandwidth tolead these other three pillars
of work if we don't lookinternally at ourselves?
(13:43):
So that one's not as excitingto folks reading the plan,
perhaps, but it's a necessityand any business has to look at
themselves as well as theiroutreaching work.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah Well, I think it just kind of speaks to the
thoughtfulness behind this plantoo, not only what you want to
do for the tourists and for thecounty and preserving and
protecting, but you are a largepart of what's driving that
marketing.
So looking inward, I think, isreally really key, and it sounds
like you all are doing that ina really insightful and
thoughtful way too.
One of the things that'sinteresting right now and I
(14:16):
don't know if this is still truebecause I haven't looked at the
recent map, but you mentionedthe Blue Ridge Parkway and all
these areas these are reallysome of the areas that are
really truly wide open.
You can look up and down theBlue Ridge Parkway and there's a
lot of areas that you know asyou sort of go north.
There's a lot of sections thatare still affected by Helene and
they're still recovering fromHelene.
But here in your area, andheading southbound.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
This is a lot of stretch of the Blue Ridge
Parkway that is open right nowas of 2025.
We're very lucky that ourstretch of the Blue Ridge
Parkway was not as impactedsignificantly by Helene as some
of the other sections.
We still have one piece, onesegment, that's closed and I
know that the Blue Ridge Parkwaystaff are working incredibly
hard, as they are on the entirestretch of the parkway to reopen
(15:04):
as much as they can.
They know how critical theparkway is to to gateway
communities, of which we havefive, um, and, and those gateway
communities rely on thevisitors coming to experience
the parkway and then they comeinto our towns to shop and have
lunch and spend the night, andso we're just so proud of our,
(15:26):
our national park friends andthe work that they're doing.
But yes, we have almost all ofour 46 miles are open and ready
to welcome you today.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
I love it, love it, absolutely love it.
Let's dip back a little bit.
Talk about community engagementand that piece where you really
reached out to a lot of thestakeholders.
We're kind of started out withthis whole process reaching out
to all these stakeholders, andyou also mentioned collaboration
.
I'd love to talk a little bitabout what that experience was
(15:56):
like talking to localstakeholders, what their
feedback was, what theirfeedback was about going through
a process like this, and thenhow do you continue to engage
those same stakeholders?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
That's a lot of work.
I mean we're all so busy, right, it's very difficult to
encourage folks to make time forsomething.
But the good news is HaywoodCounty as a community is
incredibly collaborative andagain, that certainly bubbled to
(16:28):
the top through thosedestination values and people
individually stating we've gotto work together.
But we my team and I and theconsultants that we hired to
help lead this project it was socritical from the outset that
we gather as much communityfeedback as possible Because
(16:50):
tourism, while it drives oureconomy, it also impacts our
locals.
Some locals think it impactsthem positively, others may
disagree with that assessment,but at the end of the day it's
driving our total economy, whichmeans jobs, which means
businesses, which meansrestaurants that are here for us
to enjoy in the winter, whenit's not as busy.
That probably wouldn't be herewithout the visitor economy to
(17:12):
support them.
So we intentionally held publiccommunity input sessions and we
published them.
We work with the localnewspapers to get the word out.
We fed people at those sessionsto encourage more participation
.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Food always brings people in.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
It does, and it's worth it because we can honestly
say over 500 local stakeholders, business owners, residents
participated in our in-personsessions and then another almost
330 participated in the onlinesurveys, and that's not
including the surveys that wedid to visitors and to travel
(17:56):
journalists.
So that gets our participationup.
Over 2,000 different folks hadinput into this plan.
So it was always alwaysimportant that this could truly
be Haywood County's destinationmaster plan, not the TDA's
master plan.
It's rooted in tourism and it'sabout the tourism economy, but
(18:21):
this is a very famous sayingthat's shared in the destination
space If you have a beautifulplace or a wonderful place to
visit, it also then becomes agreat place to live.
And if it's a great place tolive, it's a great place to work
.
So, and they're all connectedwith each other.
So we're happy to lead thehaving a great place to visit
(18:41):
piece of it, knowing that itwill also drive back to we'll
have a great place to live,which also means a great place
to work, and it just keeps that,that economic cycle churning.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Yeah, and stewardship is a big part of that.
I mean, because, you know, oneof the things I know is very
important to you all and as youand I, as you and I have talked
is not trying to overlove someof these areas.
You, you also want to protectsome of these areas as well.
So I know that stewardship isis pretty big.
How do you strike the balancebetween the tourism growth and
(19:15):
also preserving what makes thisarea so special?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
That's where it goes back to.
It's not about quantity ofvisitors, it's about quality of
visitors.
So we're intentionally seekingvisitors who align with our
values, who want to come and seethe wild elk from a safe
distance and respect andunderstand that these are wild
animals.
(19:40):
A lot of it's messaging,education, all of the above.
Thankfully, Haywood County doesnot have a lot of assets that
are overloved yet, but byknowing that now, and knowing
which ones are a little bit moreheavily trafficked and which
ones are not, we can createtrails, we can create maps.
(20:03):
We can suggest to visitors trythis, you know this location as
opposed to that location andhelp disperse those visitors
that do come.
And all of the same informationthat we're producing on behalf
of visitors is also fantasticfor our residents as well, who
may find new trails or newsecret hideaways that they
didn't know existed.
(20:24):
And all of that is also rootedin safety.
We've learned through thisprocess.
We worked with haywood countysearch and rescue, our local
sheriff's office, our emergencyservices, and we've learned what
areas of haywood county tend todrive more rescues and which
ones don't okay and so we'realso leveraging that information
(20:46):
, because we didn't know thatbefore this whole plan process.
Right, okay, which areas?
If we're going to send visitorsto an area that's a little more
challenging, ensure thatthey're prepared, that they've
you know, they understand whatthey're getting into, that
they're going to an area withoutcell service and they aren't
going to be able to call forhelp.
All of these things are alsoimportant for people who just
(21:09):
moved here or perhaps are new tohiking.
All of these things, thenimpact our friends and neighbors
at emergency services, searchand rescue, etc.
So we want to do everything wecan with all of this information
to ensure that people followthe principles of leave no trace
but also protect themselves,because then it keeps our other,
(21:31):
our other friends, safe too.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yeah Well, let's switch a little bit and talk a
little bit about the outcome,some of the outcomes of this,
the uh, the, the plan and thework that you all went through,
the front end work that you allwent through.
I love to know some just kindof the interesting I don't know
if you have stats or interestingthings about what people are
looking to do.
You know, as they're giving youfeedback, as tourists are
(21:56):
giving you feedback, what weresome of the really kind of key
findings that came out of thisplan?
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Well, it's always interesting when you do a plan
like this, or even marketing,because we all tend to, as human
beings, think about ourselvesfirst.
So my husband and I are veryactive.
We love getting out and hikingand biking and enjoying this
beautiful place that we are solucky enough to live in, and so
I went into this, assuming thatthat's what our visitors want
(22:24):
too.
Well, it's not.
Our visitors come for passiverecreation, not active
recreation.
I'm not saying this doesn'tapply to all, this is just the
majority.
And that speaks to who ourvisitors are.
We tend to skew a little bitolder on the visitor scale,
which is also going to go backto that branding and marketing
and messaging.
How do we find younger visitors?
(22:45):
So there's so many tentaclesthat come out of a plan like
this, but I always love learningsomething that I wasn't
expecting.
So passive recreation peoplelove to drive the parkway and go
to an overlook and have apicnic and just simply sit and
enjoy the beautiful view.
They love going to CataloocheeValley in Great Smoky Mountains
(23:07):
National Park and they'llliterally pull a chair out and
sit and watch the elk from achair out and sit and watch the
elk from a distance.
So not necessarily as active.
So the number one thing we knowthat our visitors like to do is
passive recreation.
But, that said, our residentslike more active recreation, and
so one of our research studiesshowed that our residents really
(23:31):
want more access to ourwaterways, and so some of your
listeners probably don't knowthis.
Haywood County is one of onlytwo headwater counties in the
entire country, meaning 100% ofour water originates from within
the county.
So our water is pure, pristineand very, very special, and we
(23:53):
have all of these incrediblerivers.
That can be a challenge in thetime of a hurricane, but during
non-hurricane times areabsolutely beautiful assets that
very few people have access to.
I'd love to get out on theriver and have a place where I
could teach my kid to fish orwhere I could go tubing.
(24:14):
So as we talk about productdevelopment or outcomes of this
plan, we are working towardsdeveloping some of those assets
that our residents said theywanted, because then the
residents get to use it 365 daysa year, but our visitors also
(24:35):
get to enjoy it when they come.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah, and some of those diversifying products,
some of those tourism products.
So you mentioned the rivers andyes, you have a lot of amazing
rivers around here and some ofthe trails.
What are some of the otherthings that came out of it?
And then maybe a follow-up tothat would be for those people
who are coming in here forpassive recreation, what is the
(24:58):
average kind of day that they'restaying or their length of
their stay that they're here?
Speaker 2 (25:03):
So I'll start with that.
Our average visitor stay is 3.9, 3.9, 3.9 nights, which is
always an odd number, so we'lljust round that to say four
nights, five days, and part ofthat is we have a lot of
vacation rentals in haywoodcounty.
So those those definitely appealto families, multi-generation
(25:26):
groups that want to come andthey can stay in one big house
together and and that leads tolonger stays, I think, sometimes
than your traditional hotel ormotel.
And in terms of other productdevelopment, the research really
showed some gaps.
We don't have a lot ofactivities for younger children
(25:47):
and so family-friendlyactivities.
If one of our goals is to startattracting families with kids
to come here.
So it's cloudy or rainy or andyou can't enjoy those beautiful
(26:17):
vistas something that helps fillin those the what do they do
during those five days when theycan't do the number one reason
they're coming here.
So whether that's A children'smuseum or bowling, I mean,
there's so many differentactivities that could fill that
(26:37):
gap.
We did not specificallyidentify what those indoor
activities should be, just thatwe need family friendly and
indoor and those will reallyhelp round out the Haywood
County outdoor economy andsupport and give people more
reasons to come and come backAll right.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
So the plan itself we said at the beginning it was a
10-year plan and when you lookat the numbers 2026 through 2035
, it doesn't add up to 10, a10-year split.
So there was, and there's, areason for that.
Right now, you mentioned Heleneand most all of our listeners
know that we've gone throughthat.
We're on the other side forthat right now.
You mentioned Helene and mostall of our listeners know that
we've gone through that.
We're on the other side of thatright now, or coming on the
(27:17):
other side of that.
What did that, how, how, howdid Helene kind of affect your
being able to push, go fully onthis particular plan?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Well, it definitely delayed it.
The plan was about 90, 95% donein the month of September.
And then we got hit by thehurricane and that obviously
impacted all of our partners andeven the day to day work that
that we were doing here in thetourism office.
And then we also had to saywait, did all of the work that
(27:51):
we all of 12 months worth ofwork and research and everything
on this plan.
How do we have to revisit anyof that because of the impacts
of this pretty significant storm?
And the good news is themajority of the research and the
work is very much still valid.
All of the community inputstill applies.
(28:14):
We just had to shift some of thepriorities that we were
initially looking at.
So I had mentioned safetyearlier on.
Safety was let's talk aboutthat in two or three years.
Well, now we're going to talkabout safety this year.
So we've just shiftedpriorities, tactics when we're
going to do things, andobviously recovering from Helene
(28:37):
is the number one priority.
So some of the projects that wereally wanted to look at, like,
say, building a fishing piersomewhere out onto the Pigeon
River obviously that's not goingto happen immediately because
first we have to clean up, butthat's the great part about
collaboration and partners isbecause we're working with our
towns and groups like HaywoodWaterways and Southern
(28:58):
Appalachian HighlandsConservancy, and by all of us
communicating and workingtogether, we can hopefully
overlap projects where they makesense and start moving things
forward when the community isready things forward when the
community is ready.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
And I know the last time that you and I had a
conversation about this, youwere very mindful of and I think
this goes back to thestewardship piece.
You were very mindful of sayingit's not time right now to push
a heavy push to say let's,let's start implementing a whole
lot of things.
It was about we're we'rerecovering, we're going to kind
of softly roll the beginning ofthis, this piece out and, um, I
think that may be a little bitof what kind of what you're
(29:37):
you're talking about.
So you just mentionedcollaborative, and I feel like
that word has come up a numberof times in this conversation so
far and that ties back to oneof the guiding principles of of
better together.
Um, and that really kind ofspeaks, I think, to that power
of the collaboration piece aswell.
What role do the partnershipswith local businesses,
government nonprofits and youmentioned some of those just a
(29:59):
moment ago how do they play intobringing this whole plan to
life?
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Well, we all have to work together to make it happen.
So, as the Tourism DevelopmentAuthority or Destination
Management Organization, wedon't own any of these assets,
right, we don't own the federallands, we don't have land on the
Pigeon River or on JonathanCreek.
So it's up to us working handin hand with partners who do
(30:31):
have those assets or do havethat attraction, or that
business owner that wants tobuild that indoor science museum
or some beautiful art trailthat's dedicated to elk.
There's a million differentthings that could happen.
We're here to help provide thedata, the research.
We have some funding availablethrough our grant programs to
help support them.
We have some funding availablethrough our grant programs to
(30:52):
help support them.
But if we don't have thosecommunication mechanisms with
those partners, they're nevergoing to happen.
And better together?
It's funny.
Those words literally just keptcoming up through the whole
process, whether community inputsessions, one-on-one interviews
, et cetera.
(31:12):
And one of our board membersloves to go to yard sales and
she ended up at a yard sale andthere was this giant sign that
said better together on it, andso she bought this, this old
sign that says better together,and she brought it to a board
meeting and gifted it to us andit's hanging up in the office.
And so the team and I just loveit to us.
(31:33):
And it's hanging up in theoffice, oh cool.
And so the team and I just loveit.
And we have this little signthat says better together,
because as a team, we're bettertogether.
As a board of directors, we'reall better together.
And then as a county,collectively, we absolutely are
all better together.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Oh, that's good, and they carry that thought out, at
least in my brain.
The right type of person comingin here and experiencing our
community, whether it's leave notrace, principles, whether it's
just recreating responsibly,safely, that all kind of brings
that element in as well.
So we're continuing to bebetter together.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
We are.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Okay.
So this next question it's abig loaded question and I know
that when I ask it and so we cankind of take it in little bits
and pieces Can you kind of hitthe highlights of how you see
the next 10 years kind of layingout and rolling out in this?
Speaker 2 (32:22):
plan.
I knew, going into this, thatadopting a 10 year plan can be
so many plans.
We've all heard this.
Right, get put on a shelf andthey collect dust.
We are absolutely not doingthat.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
The good news is we have a we've already started
implementing some of the tacticsin the plan.
We have a revised andrevitalized product development
committee that has a greatspattering of folks from across
Haywood County with differentskill sets and they're helping
us review the plan and look atit.
(33:05):
Okay, what are the low-hangingfruit items?
What are the items, knowingHelene's impact, that we can do?
We wrote that into actually ourproposed budget for this
upcoming fiscal year specificitems that were pulled from the
plan and they are actually inthe budget and have funding
behind them.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
So that's written, but that's only one year right.
Okay so what we have to do iskeep that rolling forward.
But I feel, with communitysupport and the product
development committee, a greatteam here at the TDA and even
the you know having your feet alittle bit held to the fire.
When we go present to say anyof our local towns or the county
(33:48):
commissioners, I want them toask the question how's that
master plan going?
Have you been working on it?
And that forces us to keep itfront of mind and keep those
items moving forward.
And we'll be sure to include areport as well Within our annual
report that we do anyways,about this master plan and how
(34:11):
we've you know what items wehave accomplished and what we're
looking forward to doing nextyear.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Neat.
In a way, it seems like you'vesort of planned the work and now
you're working the plan thatthe next 10 years, being able to
execute all the things that youall would love to execute or
the majority of the things youall would love to execute might
come to fruition just because ofthe buy-in, the total buy-in
(34:37):
that you have with all yourdifferent stakeholders.
They're really driving this tomake sure it's successful.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
The buy-in is definitely a huge piece of it,
and I think it's worth notingtoo that the plan is meant to be
living, breathing, and Ialready said we wrote the plan
initially or initiated theproject, because things happen
that you weren't expecting,helene being a perfect example
of that.
Nobody expected such a hugenatural disaster just a few
(35:06):
years after Fred impacted Cantonand Clyde within Haywood County
.
So we know a lot of theproposed tactics in the plan
will get accomplished and theymake sense and they will help
pull the whole county together.
Some of them may not, andthat's okay.
But what will probably happenis new ideas will come as we
(35:28):
start actioning some of the planand then you shift it and we'll
revisit it maybe four or fiveyears down the road, see where
we're at and what adaptations weneed to make to it.
The plan should evolve just asmuch as Haywood County and its
people and its communitiesevolve.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
I mean 10 years is a long timeaway, even though it doesn't
seem like it.
But yeah, a lot of things cancome, mean 10 years is a long
time away, even though itdoesn't seem like it, but you
know, a lot of things can, cancome about in those next 10
years.
Priorities could shift or, youknow, you learn new things and
maybe the interest is is higheror lower for certain areas here
to recreate in.
I guess you just you just don'tknow.
But but the one thing that iscommon and is not going to go
(36:07):
away is all of our naturalassets, which you are incredibly
blessed here in Haywood Countyto have so many, which really
you know a lot of our listeners.
They're going to be coming intothis area within probably a day
or two drive.
That's where our demographic isfor the people who listen here,
and it's a little bit broaderreach too.
But one of the things we reallyhaven't done is kind of talk
(36:28):
about some of the towns that arehere, that are within Haywood
County.
We know it, you know it, youlive here.
But to some of our listenersthat are coming in and they may
even recognize but may not beable to kind of connect the dots
?
What are the towns that aremaking up Haywood County?
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Haywood County is comprised of Canton, Clyde Lake,
Chunaleska, Maggie Valley andWaynesville, so we've got quite
a diverse grouping of fivewonderful small towns.
They each have their ownpersonality and they each bring
something special to the table.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Yeah, and then how does a plan like this tie in all
that diversity and all thedifferent offerings?
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Well, I mean, our data shows that our visitors
absolutely visit the entirety ofthe county.
They don't go to one town, stayin that town, shop in that town
, eat in that town, recreate inthat town, and never leave,
because each town does have itsown kind of special nuances.
So it kind of goes back towe're better together.
Somebody might come and stay inMaggie Valley and dine and shop
(37:29):
in Waynesville and then gorecreate in Canton and drive
through the other communities ontheir way.
It's, we truly are one broadercounty within this, within all
of our five towns.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
And so I know you can't have a favorite town or
you may, but you wouldn't.
I wouldn't ask you here, but Iwould love to ask you about some
of your favorite parts and bitsof this plan.
What are some of the thingsthat really kind of stick out to
you as sort of your favoriteinitiatives that you all are
getting ready to undertake?
Speaker 2 (38:00):
I think the most exciting initiatives are the
product development, becauseit's something that can really
make a meaningful difference forthe long haul of Haywood County
not just its visitors but itslocals as well and so that's
exciting.
(38:20):
And I think the item that's themost necessary is protecting
our natural assets, and that'snot easy to do, but thankfully
our federal land partners haveall been absolutely supportive
of this process from the start.
We will continue thoseconversations and that
collaboration and do absolutelyeverything we can to work with
(38:45):
them and make sure that we keepthat beauty for decades to come.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Very nice, and so the stewardship, the protecting,
the working together and wantingto make sure that people kind
of do this responsibly.
What does that look like?
Practically Like, I know Leaveno Trace.
Principles, I knowwaterfall-wise, like
Transylvania County does.
Principles, I know, waterfallwise, like Transylvania County
(39:13):
does.
What are some of the practicalthings that are happening in
terms of being able to do theseactivities safely?
Speaker 2 (39:19):
It all begins with education and pulling together.
We have, as an example, abrochure and a blog on our
website about the elk and bearsand how to observe them safely
and remind people that they'rewild animals.
And even the first time I knowI saw an elk, they're really big
(39:41):
.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
They are.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
They're like you think they're a deer, and they
are not.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
So it begins with education and us as an
organization, we need to expandour education and let people
know how they can enjoy and viewand be safe and all of those
things.
So we have to start witheducation and then the visitors
and the residents, of course,have to action what hopefully
(40:08):
they're being taught.
So it's a partnership.
We can't do it all by ourselves, but we're going to do
everything we can.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
So how do we stay engaged with you, with Visit
Haywood, with this area, withyour plan?
How can we just listen or stayengaged with what you have going
on?
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Absolutely.
We have two websites currently.
One is our consumer website,visithaywoodcom, and that's got
all of the great content aboutall of our five towns, what
there is to see, do where youcan stay, special events, all
that great stuff.
And you can also sign up forour Visit Haywood consumer email
that we send out twice a month.
(40:48):
We send out twice a month.
We also have what we call ourpartner website and that is
haywoodtda, as intourismdevelopmentauthoritycom,
and that's got a copy of themaster plan on it.
It's got ways to contact theteam and stay in touch with our
board and all sorts of veryexciting things like our meeting
minutes and our budgets and allsorts of things are all posted
(41:11):
there.
But it's important to us.
We are funded by occupancy taxdollars.
Thank you very much to ourlodging partners for collecting
it all and to visitors forstaying here, and so it's
important that we're astransparent as possible with
everything we're doing, and sothat's why we post it all on
that website.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Okay, and then you have great social media too.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
We do.
We have Facebook, Instagram,and they're all visit Haywood,
and then we have a partnerFacebook which is Haywood TDA.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Very nice, very nice.
Well, is there anything thatyou just love for the listeners
to know, to understand, toappreciate about this master
plan that you all have puttogether, to appreciate about?
Speaker 2 (41:52):
this master plan that you all have put together.
Stay engaged.
If you happen to be a local ora local business partner, please
reach out to us.
We want to hear from you.
If you're interested, no matterwhere you live, reach out to
your local tourism office andfind out the work that they're
doing and how you can support,because tourism is a big piece
(42:13):
of of our local economies andour local quality of life, and
that quality of life piece ishuge and I think a lot of people
aren't aware of that, so wewant to keep getting that
message out oh, that's great.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Well, I appreciate you taking a few minutes here
with me today just to kind oflay out this plan.
It is going to be available, orit is already available, online
, and then I'll have some linksto it in the show notes as well,
and just so the listenersaren't too intimidated.
The 138 pages is not likereading 138 page textbook.
It's good, it's great.
It's more booklet style, it haspictures, but the information
(42:51):
that's in it is reallyremarkable and so really telling
of all the heart and thoughtthat you all put into this.
So I just thank you forspending a few minutes with me
today and helping me understandwhat Visit Haywood is all about
and the direction that you allare going.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Thank you so much.
We're excited to keep thisproject moving forward.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Haywood County isn't just preparing for more visitors
.
It's preparing for the rightkind of visitors.
Through thoughtful planning,deep community engagement and a
commitment to shared values,this mountain destination is
showing what it looks like togrow with intention.
It's a reminder that tourism,when done right, can protect
what we love while creatingmeaningful experiences for
everyone.
A big thank you to KarinaRefure for sharing the story
(43:32):
behind Haywood County's 10-yeardestination master plan and the
newly refreshed Visit Haywoodbrand.
It's a powerful reminder thatwhen tourism is grounded in
stewardship and community care,it becomes something truly
meaningful.
If you're inspired to learnmore or plan your own visit,
head to visithaywoodcom orexplore the full destination
(43:53):
master plan at haywoodtdacom.
Thanks again for joining me onthis episode of Exploration
Local.
If you enjoyed thisconversation, don't forget to
follow, leave a review and shareit with someone who values
thoughtful travel and connection.
And until next time, may yourjourneys be meaningful, your
destinations intentional and, asalways, I encourage you to
(44:13):
wander far but explore local.
What does it take for a rural mountain community to
grow without losing its soul?
In this episode, we head toHaywood County, north Carolina,
a place where five distinctmountain towns are tucked
between the Great SmokyMountains, pisgah National
Forest, the Blue Ridge Parkway,and is surrounded by wild rivers
, scenic byways and a deep senseof place.
In recent years, like manyoutdoor destinations, haywood
(00:22):
County experienced apost-pandemic tourism surge.
Like many outdoor destinations,haywood County experienced a
post-pandemic tourism surge, andwith it came the pressing
question how do we welcomevisitors without compromising
what makes this place so specialto those who live here?
Rather than react, haywoodCounty chose to plan,
intentionally andcollaboratively.
Over 2,000 local voices cametogether to shape a
comprehensive 10-yeardestination master plan that
(00:44):
reflects shared values likestewardship, inclusivity and
working better together.
Alongside that vision came arefreshed Visit Haywood brand,
one that helps tell the story ofa region that's not only
beautiful but thoughtful in howit grows.
This plan isn't about chasingmore visitors.
It's about attracting the rightkind of visitors, those who
care, who connect and who leavethe place better than they found
(01:07):
it.
In today's conversation, we diveinto how this plan came to life
, what it means for the futureof Western North Carolina and
how Haywood County is setting anew standard for sustainable,
values-driven tourism.
To help us unpack it all, I'mjoined by Karina Refure, the
Executive Director of VisitHaywood.
Karina has been at theforefront of this planning
process, helping guide acountywide effort that balances
(01:30):
visitor experience withcommunity well-being.
From brand strategy todestination stewardship, karina
brings a deep understanding ofwhat it takes to create tourism
that works for everyone locals,visitors and the natural
environment alike.
So let's dive into thisthoughtful and inspiring
conversation about the future ofHaywood County and what it
(01:50):
truly means to be welcoming,intentional and better together.
You're listening to ExplorationLocal, a podcast designed to
explore and celebrate the peopleand places that make the Blue
Ridge and Southern AppalachianMountains special and unique.
My name is Mike Andrus, thehost of Exploration Local.
(02:14):
Join us on our journey toexplore these mountains and
discover how they fuel thespirit of adventure.
We encourage you to wander far,but explore local.
Let's go, karina, thanks somuch for being here today.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Good morning, Mike.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
I want to give listeners some context for those
who might not be familiar whatexactly is a destination
marketing plan and why is itsuch an important tool for
communities like Haywood County?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
There's probably a variety of different definitions
you could come up with for it.
For us, we really started theproject because Haywood County
saw a pretty significantincrease in visitation COVID and
post-COVID and we've all heardthe terms over-tourism and in a
rural community with lots ofnatural resources, we wanted to
(03:05):
be really careful and make surethat we plan for the future and
ensure that we don't get tochallenges like over-tourism and
other concerns that can arise.
And the other definition I'llthrow out there is like it or
not, change happens and if wehave a plan that's been
(03:29):
initiated in advance, it canreally help you address some of
those unplanned for changesbecause the plan is done
strategically.
So it's about who is HaywoodCounty, who do we want our
(03:52):
visitors to be.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
What do we want this destination to look like in 10
years and how do we all worktogether to get there?
You're going through thisrollout of the refreshed Visit
Haywood brand.
How does this identity reflectwhat makes the county unique?
And then, how are you allplanning to use this to tell
Haywood's story over the nextdecade?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
We embarked on two massive projects at the same
time by doing a master planconcurrently with a rebranding
initiative, and that was a lot,but a lot of it overlapped, and
I know we'll talk in a littlebit about community outreach,
and and that was a lot, but alot of it overlapped, and I know
we'll talk in a little bitabout community outreach and how
important that was.
But a lot of the questions thatwe were asking people about
(04:33):
Haywood County, its fivemountain towns, its assets, what
people love about our community, also get reflected in the
branding initiative.
So we did those.
We did the branding projectbecause our old brand was
fantastic but also so watereddown.
(04:55):
It was Visit NC Smokies and ifyou Google Smokies, visit
Smokies, nc Smokies, anycombination of the above there's
literally over 100 differentorganizations using some version
of that, and so, while Smokiesare so well known, it also made
it a lot harder for people tofind us.
(05:17):
So we did all this research and, ironically, the research came
back as something as simple asVisit Haywood.
It resonated with our visitorsand it also resonated with our
local stakeholders and it'sreally important when you're
doing a brand that you try tohave both.
How we roll it out is ineverything we do.
Of course it's always hard with.
(05:39):
We'll talk about Helene and howthat impacted Haywood a little
bit.
So we'll talk about Helene andhow that impacted Haywood a
little bit, but we launched ourbrand the day before Helene hit,
which was not very effective.
But the good news is now thatwe've been leveraging that brand
for coming on eight months.
People are talking about it,they hear it, they understand it
(06:00):
.
Visit Haywood.
It's actionable, people knowwhat it means and we're just
using it to help tell Haywoodstory, our authentic rural,
small town story.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Oh, I love that.
So one of the things that sortof caught my attention here
recently, since the last timethat you and I talked, were
these guiding principles, andwhat I'm referring to here and
what we're referring to is thisreally big plan.
It's a really thought out,well-crafted master plan.
It's about 138 pages if youread it end to end, but there's
(06:33):
a lot of really good stuff inthere and, for people that want
to, we're going to put a link inthe show notes.
But the guiding principles andthose things that you all really
kind of thought of bettertogether welcoming to all and
destination stewardship, thosekind of things really, as you
were going through this planningprocess, they seem to really
reflect not just the goals butthe values that you all have and
(06:55):
how those values are reallykind of shaping how this plan is
going to play out.
And I'd love to talk a littlebit just a little bit about some
of those guiding principles andwhy they were important right
from the outset.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
It's interesting, they really bubbled to the top
at the very beginning of thisprocess.
So developing this 138-pageplan was a solid year-long
process.
It was not short.
It involved a whole lot ofsurveys and outreach and
community input and all of thosethings.
(07:28):
And one of the tactics we usedto gather feedback were
one-on-one interviews with avariety of different
stakeholders, namely electedofficials, local mayors and
aldermen and the like, and evenin separate one-on-one
interviews they all kept onsaying a lot of the same things.
(07:50):
Better Together, namely comingto the top and being welcoming
to everybody, was just acrossthe board.
Destination Stewardship comeskind of separately than the
Better Together and welcoming toall, because almost half of
Haywood County is public landsand it's the number one reason
(08:12):
why people choose to come here.
So in order to ensure that wehave those lands for our future,
our children's future, etcetera, we have to protect them.
So the destination values werepretty much universally agreed
upon throughout the wholeprocess, throughout a 12 month
(08:35):
process, which is prettyimpressive.
But I really just so enjoyedseeing separate, individual
one-on-one interviews andsimilar themes coming to the top
.
It speaks to the authenticityof the folks that participated
in the process and thateverybody really was working
(09:00):
together to come up with thebest possible plan.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah, and it seems like it was a way to really
align all of your stakeholderstoo, like organically it was
aligning because you werehearing these things over and
over and over.
So I guess those are the waysthat it sort of bubbled to the
top.
Maybe you didn't start out withthe principles, I don't know,
maybe they just at the end of it.
This is just what came about asyou were kind of starting on
the front end of this plan.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
We did not start with really any outcome in mind,
other than probably knowing thatstewardship was going to be a
piece of the puzzle because ofwho Haywood County is.
But everything else that cameout of the plan truly
organically came out of the planthe research and the whole
(09:43):
process.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Nice and that seemed to lead to these pillars, if you
will, or these objectives, andthere were four major pillars
that I think you all laid out orthat really kind of came that
surfaced up and you guys sort orthese objectives, and there
were four major pillars that Ithink you all laid out or that
really kind of came thatsurfaced up and you guys sort of
laid out.
And so, building on theprinciples that we just talked
about, I love to kind of unpacka little bit what these four
pillars are, because it seemslike that really kind of guides
(10:05):
the rest of this conversation.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
The pillars are really a way of organizing all
of the work in the 138 pagesBecause you can look at this and
it's kind of overwhelming,right there's a whole lot of
objectives and strategies andtactics and it's a 10-year plan,
so it's not meant to becompleted in the next 12 or 24
(10:27):
months.
The four pillars just help usorganize ourselves so that we
aren't quite so overwhelmed whenyou're looking at the plan in
its entirety.
So we have number one, which iswhat destination management or
marketing organizations arereally well known for, and that
is strengthening awareness andperception of the Haywood County
(10:49):
brand, ie marketing, tellingour story.
Awareness and perception of theHaywood County brand, ie
marketing, telling our story.
How do we tell the HaywoodCounty story in a way that it
resonates with visitors andencourages people to want to
come here?
But that's not simple becausethere's a lot of beautiful
Western North Carolinacommunities that are our
neighbors, that have similarassets, similar stories.
(11:10):
So we just want to make surethat we're telling ours in a
slightly unique way andhopefully Haywood County then
becomes you know, gets put onsomebody's list that they want
to come vacation here.
The second bucket of work, orpillar, is to diversify tourism
product offerings andexperiences that enhance the
destination appeal for all.
(11:31):
The short version of that isproduct development.
What do we do beyond marketingto encourage people who have
already come to want to comeback, to build out the
experiences that Haywood Countycan offer, to ensure that we are
appealing to as many potentialvisitors as possible?
(11:55):
And I'll caveat that with thisis throughout the whole plan.
This is not about volume ofvisitors, it's about quality of
visitor, the right visitor.
At the end of the day, yes, ourultimate mission is to drive
economic growth and to drivespending at our local businesses
, and it keeps that economiccycle moving, but we still want
(12:20):
the right people to come here,so product development can
definitely help us do that.
The third pillar is to promotestewardship of our natural
resources and our outdoorrecreation opportunities.
Again, that's the number onereason people come here.
Our research very clearly showsthat and we are so blessed to
(12:40):
have 46 miles of the Blue RidgeParkway, second only to one
other county on the entirestretch of the entirety of the
Blue Ridge Parkway.
We are the biggest sectionNorth Carolina section of Great
Smoky Mountains National Park,including Kaloochee Valley,
which is where the elk werereintroduced and roam freely.
(13:01):
We have the Appalachian Trail,which is its own national park,
and we have Pisgah NationalForest, including Shining Rock
Wilderness.
So we have so many federalnatural assets and we really
want to work with our federalland partners and our visitors
(13:21):
and our local residents toprotect them and ensure that
they're here and continuing todrive our economy for decades to
come.
And then the fourth pillar isreally about us, the Haywood
County Tourism DevelopmentAuthority, as a business, as an
organization.
How do we have the bandwidth tolead these other three pillars
of work if we don't lookinternally at ourselves?
(13:43):
So that one's not as excitingto folks reading the plan,
perhaps, but it's a necessityand any business has to look at
themselves as well as theiroutreaching work.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah Well, I think it just kind of speaks to the
thoughtfulness behind this plantoo, not only what you want to
do for the tourists and for thecounty and preserving and
protecting, but you are a largepart of what's driving that
marketing.
So looking inward, I think, isreally really key, and it sounds
like you all are doing that ina really insightful and
thoughtful way too.
One of the things that'sinteresting right now and I
(14:16):
don't know if this is still truebecause I haven't looked at the
recent map, but you mentionedthe Blue Ridge Parkway and all
these areas these are reallysome of the areas that are
really truly wide open.
You can look up and down theBlue Ridge Parkway and there's a
lot of areas that you know asyou sort of go north.
There's a lot of sections thatare still affected by Helene and
they're still recovering fromHelene.
But here in your area, andheading southbound.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
This is a lot of stretch of the Blue Ridge
Parkway that is open right nowas of 2025.
We're very lucky that ourstretch of the Blue Ridge
Parkway was not as impactedsignificantly by Helene as some
of the other sections.
We still have one piece, onesegment, that's closed and I
know that the Blue Ridge Parkwaystaff are working incredibly
hard, as they are on the entirestretch of the parkway to reopen
(15:04):
as much as they can.
They know how critical theparkway is to to gateway
communities, of which we havefive, um, and, and those gateway
communities rely on thevisitors coming to experience
the parkway and then they comeinto our towns to shop and have
lunch and spend the night, andso we're just so proud of our,
(15:26):
our national park friends andthe work that they're doing.
But yes, we have almost all ofour 46 miles are open and ready
to welcome you today.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
I love it, love it, absolutely love it.
Let's dip back a little bit.
Talk about community engagementand that piece where you really
reached out to a lot of thestakeholders.
We're kind of started out withthis whole process reaching out
to all these stakeholders, andyou also mentioned collaboration
.
I'd love to talk a little bitabout what that experience was
(15:56):
like talking to localstakeholders, what their
feedback was, what theirfeedback was about going through
a process like this, and thenhow do you continue to engage
those same stakeholders?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
That's a lot of work.
I mean we're all so busy, right, it's very difficult to
encourage folks to make time forsomething.
But the good news is HaywoodCounty as a community is
incredibly collaborative andagain, that certainly bubbled to
(16:28):
the top through thosedestination values and people
individually stating we've gotto work together.
But we my team and I and theconsultants that we hired to
help lead this project it was socritical from the outset that
we gather as much communityfeedback as possible Because
(16:50):
tourism, while it drives oureconomy, it also impacts our
locals.
Some locals think it impactsthem positively, others may
disagree with that assessment,but at the end of the day it's
driving our total economy, whichmeans jobs, which means
businesses, which meansrestaurants that are here for us
to enjoy in the winter, whenit's not as busy.
That probably wouldn't be herewithout the visitor economy to
(17:12):
support them.
So we intentionally held publiccommunity input sessions and we
published them.
We work with the localnewspapers to get the word out.
We fed people at those sessionsto encourage more participation
.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Food always brings people in.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
It does, and it's worth it because we can honestly
say over 500 local stakeholders, business owners, residents
participated in our in-personsessions and then another almost
330 participated in the onlinesurveys, and that's not
including the surveys that wedid to visitors and to travel
(17:56):
journalists.
So that gets our participationup.
Over 2,000 different folks hadinput into this plan.
So it was always alwaysimportant that this could truly
be Haywood County's destinationmaster plan, not the TDA's
master plan.
It's rooted in tourism and it'sabout the tourism economy, but
(18:21):
this is a very famous sayingthat's shared in the destination
space If you have a beautifulplace or a wonderful place to
visit, it also then becomes agreat place to live.
And if it's a great place tolive, it's a great place to work
.
So, and they're all connectedwith each other.
So we're happy to lead thehaving a great place to visit
(18:41):
piece of it, knowing that itwill also drive back to we'll
have a great place to live,which also means a great place
to work, and it just keeps that,that economic cycle churning.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Yeah, and stewardship is a big part of that.
I mean, because, you know, oneof the things I know is very
important to you all and as youand I, as you and I have talked
is not trying to overlove someof these areas.
You, you also want to protectsome of these areas as well.
So I know that stewardship isis pretty big.
How do you strike the balancebetween the tourism growth and
(19:15):
also preserving what makes thisarea so special?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
That's where it goes back to.
It's not about quantity ofvisitors, it's about quality of
visitors.
So we're intentionally seekingvisitors who align with our
values, who want to come and seethe wild elk from a safe
distance and respect andunderstand that these are wild
animals.
(19:40):
A lot of it's messaging,education, all of the above.
Thankfully, Haywood County doesnot have a lot of assets that
are overloved yet, but byknowing that now, and knowing
which ones are a little bit moreheavily trafficked and which
ones are not, we can createtrails, we can create maps.
(20:03):
We can suggest to visitors trythis, you know this location as
opposed to that location andhelp disperse those visitors
that do come.
And all of the same informationthat we're producing on behalf
of visitors is also fantasticfor our residents as well, who
may find new trails or newsecret hideaways that they
didn't know existed.
(20:24):
And all of that is also rootedin safety.
We've learned through thisprocess.
We worked with haywood countysearch and rescue, our local
sheriff's office, our emergencyservices, and we've learned what
areas of haywood county tend todrive more rescues and which
ones don't okay and so we'realso leveraging that information
(20:46):
, because we didn't know thatbefore this whole plan process.
Right, okay, which areas?
If we're going to send visitorsto an area that's a little more
challenging, ensure thatthey're prepared, that they've
you know, they understand whatthey're getting into, that
they're going to an area withoutcell service and they aren't
going to be able to call forhelp.
All of these things are alsoimportant for people who just
(21:09):
moved here or perhaps are new tohiking.
All of these things, thenimpact our friends and neighbors
at emergency services, searchand rescue, etc.
So we want to do everything wecan with all of this information
to ensure that people followthe principles of leave no trace
but also protect themselves,because then it keeps our other,
(21:31):
our other friends, safe too.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yeah Well, let's switch a little bit and talk a
little bit about the outcome,some of the outcomes of this,
the uh, the, the plan and thework that you all went through,
the front end work that you allwent through.
I love to know some just kindof the interesting I don't know
if you have stats or interestingthings about what people are
looking to do.
You know, as they're giving youfeedback, as tourists are
(21:56):
giving you feedback, what weresome of the really kind of key
findings that came out of thisplan?
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Well, it's always interesting when you do a plan
like this, or even marketing,because we all tend to, as human
beings, think about ourselvesfirst.
So my husband and I are veryactive.
We love getting out and hikingand biking and enjoying this
beautiful place that we are solucky enough to live in, and so
I went into this, assuming thatthat's what our visitors want
(22:24):
too.
Well, it's not.
Our visitors come for passiverecreation, not active
recreation.
I'm not saying this doesn'tapply to all, this is just the
majority.
And that speaks to who ourvisitors are.
We tend to skew a little bitolder on the visitor scale,
which is also going to go backto that branding and marketing
and messaging.
How do we find younger visitors?
(22:45):
So there's so many tentaclesthat come out of a plan like
this, but I always love learningsomething that I wasn't
expecting.
So passive recreation peoplelove to drive the parkway and go
to an overlook and have apicnic and just simply sit and
enjoy the beautiful view.
They love going to CataloocheeValley in Great Smoky Mountains
(23:07):
National Park and they'llliterally pull a chair out and
sit and watch the elk from achair out and sit and watch the
elk from a distance.
So not necessarily as active.
So the number one thing we knowthat our visitors like to do is
passive recreation.
But, that said, our residentslike more active recreation, and
so one of our research studiesshowed that our residents really
(23:31):
want more access to ourwaterways, and so some of your
listeners probably don't knowthis.
Haywood County is one of onlytwo headwater counties in the
entire country, meaning 100% ofour water originates from within
the county.
So our water is pure, pristineand very, very special, and we
(23:53):
have all of these incrediblerivers.
That can be a challenge in thetime of a hurricane, but during
non-hurricane times areabsolutely beautiful assets that
very few people have access to.
I'd love to get out on theriver and have a place where I
could teach my kid to fish orwhere I could go tubing.
(24:14):
So as we talk about productdevelopment or outcomes of this
plan, we are working towardsdeveloping some of those assets
that our residents said theywanted, because then the
residents get to use it 365 daysa year, but our visitors also
(24:35):
get to enjoy it when they come.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah, and some of those diversifying products,
some of those tourism products.
So you mentioned the rivers andyes, you have a lot of amazing
rivers around here and some ofthe trails.
What are some of the otherthings that came out of it?
And then maybe a follow-up tothat would be for those people
who are coming in here forpassive recreation, what is the
(24:58):
average kind of day that they'restaying or their length of
their stay that they're here?
Speaker 2 (25:03):
So I'll start with that.
Our average visitor stay is 3.9, 3.9, 3.9 nights, which is
always an odd number, so we'lljust round that to say four
nights, five days, and part ofthat is we have a lot of
vacation rentals in haywoodcounty.
So those those definitely appealto families, multi-generation
(25:26):
groups that want to come andthey can stay in one big house
together and and that leads tolonger stays, I think, sometimes
than your traditional hotel ormotel.
And in terms of other productdevelopment, the research really
showed some gaps.
We don't have a lot ofactivities for younger children
(25:47):
and so family-friendlyactivities.
If one of our goals is to startattracting families with kids
to come here.
So it's cloudy or rainy or andyou can't enjoy those beautiful
(26:17):
vistas something that helps fillin those the what do they do
during those five days when theycan't do the number one reason
they're coming here.
So whether that's A children'smuseum or bowling, I mean,
there's so many differentactivities that could fill that
(26:37):
gap.
We did not specificallyidentify what those indoor
activities should be, just thatwe need family friendly and
indoor and those will reallyhelp round out the Haywood
County outdoor economy andsupport and give people more
reasons to come and come backAll right.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
So the plan itself we said at the beginning it was a
10-year plan and when you lookat the numbers 2026 through 2035
, it doesn't add up to 10, a10-year split.
So there was, and there's, areason for that.
Right now, you mentioned Heleneand most all of our listeners
know that we've gone throughthat.
We're on the other side forthat right now.
You mentioned Helene and mostall of our listeners know that
we've gone through that.
We're on the other side of thatright now, or coming on the
(27:17):
other side of that.
What did that, how, how, howdid Helene kind of affect your
being able to push, go fully onthis particular plan?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Well, it definitely delayed it.
The plan was about 90, 95% donein the month of September.
And then we got hit by thehurricane and that obviously
impacted all of our partners andeven the day to day work that
that we were doing here in thetourism office.
And then we also had to saywait, did all of the work that
(27:51):
we all of 12 months worth ofwork and research and everything
on this plan.
How do we have to revisit anyof that because of the impacts
of this pretty significant storm?
And the good news is themajority of the research and the
work is very much still valid.
All of the community inputstill applies.
(28:14):
We just had to shift some of thepriorities that we were
initially looking at.
So I had mentioned safetyearlier on.
Safety was let's talk aboutthat in two or three years.
Well, now we're going to talkabout safety this year.
So we've just shiftedpriorities, tactics when we're
going to do things, andobviously recovering from Helene
(28:37):
is the number one priority.
So some of the projects that wereally wanted to look at, like,
say, building a fishing piersomewhere out onto the Pigeon
River obviously that's not goingto happen immediately because
first we have to clean up, butthat's the great part about
collaboration and partners isbecause we're working with our
towns and groups like HaywoodWaterways and Southern
(28:58):
Appalachian HighlandsConservancy, and by all of us
communicating and workingtogether, we can hopefully
overlap projects where they makesense and start moving things
forward when the community isready things forward when the
community is ready.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
And I know the last time that you and I had a
conversation about this, youwere very mindful of and I think
this goes back to thestewardship piece.
You were very mindful of sayingit's not time right now to push
a heavy push to say let's,let's start implementing a whole
lot of things.
It was about we're we'rerecovering, we're going to kind
of softly roll the beginning ofthis, this piece out and, um, I
think that may be a little bitof what kind of what you're
(29:37):
you're talking about.
So you just mentionedcollaborative, and I feel like
that word has come up a numberof times in this conversation so
far and that ties back to oneof the guiding principles of of
better together.
Um, and that really kind ofspeaks, I think, to that power
of the collaboration piece aswell.
What role do the partnershipswith local businesses,
government nonprofits and youmentioned some of those just a
(29:59):
moment ago how do they play intobringing this whole plan to
life?
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Well, we all have to work together to make it happen.
So, as the Tourism DevelopmentAuthority or Destination
Management Organization, wedon't own any of these assets,
right, we don't own the federallands, we don't have land on the
Pigeon River or on JonathanCreek.
So it's up to us working handin hand with partners who do
(30:31):
have those assets or do havethat attraction, or that
business owner that wants tobuild that indoor science museum
or some beautiful art trailthat's dedicated to elk.
There's a million differentthings that could happen.
We're here to help provide thedata, the research.
We have some funding availablethrough our grant programs to
help support them.
We have some funding availablethrough our grant programs to
(30:52):
help support them.
But if we don't have thosecommunication mechanisms with
those partners, they're nevergoing to happen.
And better together?
It's funny.
Those words literally just keptcoming up through the whole
process, whether community inputsessions, one-on-one interviews
, et cetera.
(31:12):
And one of our board membersloves to go to yard sales and
she ended up at a yard sale andthere was this giant sign that
said better together on it, andso she bought this, this old
sign that says better together,and she brought it to a board
meeting and gifted it to us andit's hanging up in the office.
And so the team and I just loveit to us.
(31:33):
And it's hanging up in theoffice, oh cool.
And so the team and I just loveit.
And we have this little signthat says better together,
because as a team, we're bettertogether.
As a board of directors, we'reall better together.
And then as a county,collectively, we absolutely are
all better together.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Oh, that's good, and they carry that thought out, at
least in my brain.
The right type of person comingin here and experiencing our
community, whether it's leave notrace, principles, whether it's
just recreating responsibly,safely, that all kind of brings
that element in as well.
So we're continuing to bebetter together.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
We are.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Okay.
So this next question it's abig loaded question and I know
that when I ask it and so we cankind of take it in little bits
and pieces Can you kind of hitthe highlights of how you see
the next 10 years kind of layingout and rolling out in this?
Speaker 2 (32:22):
plan.
I knew, going into this, thatadopting a 10 year plan can be
so many plans.
We've all heard this.
Right, get put on a shelf andthey collect dust.
We are absolutely not doingthat.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
The good news is we have a we've already started
implementing some of the tacticsin the plan.
We have a revised andrevitalized product development
committee that has a greatspattering of folks from across
Haywood County with differentskill sets and they're helping
us review the plan and look atit.
(33:05):
Okay, what are the low-hangingfruit items?
What are the items, knowingHelene's impact, that we can do?
We wrote that into actually ourproposed budget for this
upcoming fiscal year specificitems that were pulled from the
plan and they are actually inthe budget and have funding
behind them.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
So that's written, but that's only one year right.
Okay so what we have to do iskeep that rolling forward.
But I feel, with communitysupport and the product
development committee, a greatteam here at the TDA and even
the you know having your feet alittle bit held to the fire.
When we go present to say anyof our local towns or the county
(33:48):
commissioners, I want them toask the question how's that
master plan going?
Have you been working on it?
And that forces us to keep itfront of mind and keep those
items moving forward.
And we'll be sure to include areport as well Within our annual
report that we do anyways,about this master plan and how
(34:11):
we've you know what items wehave accomplished and what we're
looking forward to doing nextyear.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Neat.
In a way, it seems like you'vesort of planned the work and now
you're working the plan thatthe next 10 years, being able to
execute all the things that youall would love to execute or
the majority of the things youall would love to execute might
come to fruition just because ofthe buy-in, the total buy-in
(34:37):
that you have with all yourdifferent stakeholders.
They're really driving this tomake sure it's successful.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
The buy-in is definitely a huge piece of it,
and I think it's worth notingtoo that the plan is meant to be
living, breathing, and Ialready said we wrote the plan
initially or initiated theproject, because things happen
that you weren't expecting,helene being a perfect example
of that.
Nobody expected such a hugenatural disaster just a few
(35:06):
years after Fred impacted Cantonand Clyde within Haywood County
.
So we know a lot of theproposed tactics in the plan
will get accomplished and theymake sense and they will help
pull the whole county together.
Some of them may not, andthat's okay.
But what will probably happenis new ideas will come as we
(35:28):
start actioning some of the planand then you shift it and we'll
revisit it maybe four or fiveyears down the road, see where
we're at and what adaptations weneed to make to it.
The plan should evolve just asmuch as Haywood County and its
people and its communitiesevolve.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
I mean 10 years is a long timeaway, even though it doesn't
seem like it.
But yeah, a lot of things cancome, mean 10 years is a long
time away, even though itdoesn't seem like it, but you
know, a lot of things can, cancome about in those next 10
years.
Priorities could shift or, youknow, you learn new things and
maybe the interest is is higheror lower for certain areas here
to recreate in.
I guess you just you just don'tknow.
But but the one thing that iscommon and is not going to go
(36:07):
away is all of our naturalassets, which you are incredibly
blessed here in Haywood Countyto have so many, which really
you know a lot of our listeners.
They're going to be coming intothis area within probably a day
or two drive.
That's where our demographic isfor the people who listen here,
and it's a little bit broaderreach too.
But one of the things we reallyhaven't done is kind of talk
(36:28):
about some of the towns that arehere, that are within Haywood
County.
We know it, you know it, youlive here.
But to some of our listenersthat are coming in and they may
even recognize but may not beable to kind of connect the dots
?
What are the towns that aremaking up Haywood County?
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Haywood County is comprised of Canton, Clyde Lake,
Chunaleska, Maggie Valley andWaynesville, so we've got quite
a diverse grouping of fivewonderful small towns.
They each have their ownpersonality and they each bring
something special to the table.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Yeah, and then how does a plan like this tie in all
that diversity and all thedifferent offerings?
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Well, I mean, our data shows that our visitors
absolutely visit the entirety ofthe county.
They don't go to one town, stayin that town, shop in that town
, eat in that town, recreate inthat town, and never leave,
because each town does have itsown kind of special nuances.
So it kind of goes back towe're better together.
Somebody might come and stay inMaggie Valley and dine and shop
(37:29):
in Waynesville and then gorecreate in Canton and drive
through the other communities ontheir way.
It's, we truly are one broadercounty within this, within all
of our five towns.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
And so I know you can't have a favorite town or
you may, but you wouldn't.
I wouldn't ask you here, but Iwould love to ask you about some
of your favorite parts and bitsof this plan.
What are some of the thingsthat really kind of stick out to
you as sort of your favoriteinitiatives that you all are
getting ready to undertake?
Speaker 2 (38:00):
I think the most exciting initiatives are the
product development, becauseit's something that can really
make a meaningful difference forthe long haul of Haywood County
not just its visitors but itslocals as well and so that's
exciting.
(38:20):
And I think the item that's themost necessary is protecting
our natural assets, and that'snot easy to do, but thankfully
our federal land partners haveall been absolutely supportive
of this process from the start.
We will continue thoseconversations and that
collaboration and do absolutelyeverything we can to work with
(38:45):
them and make sure that we keepthat beauty for decades to come.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Very nice, and so the stewardship, the protecting,
the working together and wantingto make sure that people kind
of do this responsibly.
What does that look like?
Practically Like, I know Leaveno Trace.
Principles, I knowwaterfall-wise, like
Transylvania County does.
Principles, I know, waterfallwise, like Transylvania County
(39:13):
does.
What are some of the practicalthings that are happening in
terms of being able to do theseactivities safely?
Speaker 2 (39:19):
It all begins with education and pulling together.
We have, as an example, abrochure and a blog on our
website about the elk and bearsand how to observe them safely
and remind people that they'rewild animals.
And even the first time I knowI saw an elk, they're really big
(39:41):
.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
They are.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
They're like you think they're a deer, and they
are not.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
So it begins with education and us as an
organization, we need to expandour education and let people
know how they can enjoy and viewand be safe and all of those
things.
So we have to start witheducation and then the visitors
and the residents, of course,have to action what hopefully
(40:08):
they're being taught.
So it's a partnership.
We can't do it all by ourselves, but we're going to do
everything we can.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
So how do we stay engaged with you, with Visit
Haywood, with this area, withyour plan?
How can we just listen or stayengaged with what you have going
on?
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Absolutely.
We have two websites currently.
One is our consumer website,visithaywoodcom, and that's got
all of the great content aboutall of our five towns, what
there is to see, do where youcan stay, special events, all
that great stuff.
And you can also sign up forour Visit Haywood consumer email
that we send out twice a month.
(40:48):
We send out twice a month.
We also have what we call ourpartner website and that is
haywoodtda, as intourismdevelopmentauthoritycom,
and that's got a copy of themaster plan on it.
It's got ways to contact theteam and stay in touch with our
board and all sorts of veryexciting things like our meeting
minutes and our budgets and allsorts of things are all posted
(41:11):
there.
But it's important to us.
We are funded by occupancy taxdollars.
Thank you very much to ourlodging partners for collecting
it all and to visitors forstaying here, and so it's
important that we're astransparent as possible with
everything we're doing, and sothat's why we post it all on
that website.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Okay, and then you have great social media too.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
We do.
We have Facebook, Instagram,and they're all visit Haywood,
and then we have a partnerFacebook which is Haywood TDA.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Very nice, very nice.
Well, is there anything thatyou just love for the listeners
to know, to understand, toappreciate about this master
plan that you all have puttogether, to appreciate about?
Speaker 2 (41:52):
this master plan that you all have put together.
Stay engaged.
If you happen to be a local ora local business partner, please
reach out to us.
We want to hear from you.
If you're interested, no matterwhere you live, reach out to
your local tourism office andfind out the work that they're
doing and how you can support,because tourism is a big piece
(42:13):
of of our local economies andour local quality of life, and
that quality of life piece ishuge and I think a lot of people
aren't aware of that, so wewant to keep getting that
message out oh, that's great.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Well, I appreciate you taking a few minutes here
with me today just to kind oflay out this plan.
It is going to be available, orit is already available, online
, and then I'll have some linksto it in the show notes as well,
and just so the listenersaren't too intimidated.
The 138 pages is not likereading 138 page textbook.
It's good, it's great.
It's more booklet style, it haspictures, but the information
(42:51):
that's in it is reallyremarkable and so really telling
of all the heart and thoughtthat you all put into this.
So I just thank you forspending a few minutes with me
today and helping me understandwhat Visit Haywood is all about
and the direction that you allare going.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Thank you so much.
We're excited to keep thisproject moving forward.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Haywood County isn't just preparing for more visitors
.
It's preparing for the rightkind of visitors.
Through thoughtful planning,deep community engagement and a
commitment to shared values,this mountain destination is
showing what it looks like togrow with intention.
It's a reminder that tourism,when done right, can protect
what we love while creatingmeaningful experiences for
everyone.
A big thank you to KarinaRefure for sharing the story
(43:32):
behind Haywood County's 10-yeardestination master plan and the
newly refreshed Visit Haywoodbrand.
It's a powerful reminder thatwhen tourism is grounded in
stewardship and community care,it becomes something truly
meaningful.
If you're inspired to learnmore or plan your own visit,
head to visithaywoodcom orexplore the full destination
(43:53):
master plan at haywoodtdacom.
Thanks again for joining me onthis episode of Exploration
Local.
If you enjoyed thisconversation, don't forget to
follow, leave a review and shareit with someone who values
thoughtful travel and connection.
And until next time, may yourjourneys be meaningful, your
destinations intentional and, asalways, I encourage you to
(44:13):
wander far but explore local.
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