Recovering Western North Carolina: Resilience, Responsible Travel, and the Path to Restoration

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Join us for an insightful and inspiring journey into the heart of Western North Carolina as we explore the region's remarkable resilience following the devastation of Hurricane Helene. In this episode, we speak with Amanda Baker from Outdoor NC, Brian Strong, Director of North Carolina State Parks, and biologist Doug Besler from the NC Wildlife Commission, as they share their expertise on the unprecedented flooding, park closures, and ongoing recovery efforts.

Discover how state parks are working to restore themselves to their natural beauty and how travelers can play a vital role in this recovery through responsible travel and stewardship. Learn about the impact on local wildlife, including the strategies for restocking trout and the broader implications for the region’s ecosystems. Doug Besler offers a fascinating look at the adaptability of nature, while also highlighting the economic significance of recreational fishing for the local community.

Through this conversation, we uncover the powerful connection between nature, well-being, and community collaboration. Patience and collective action are essential as we navigate these transformative challenges, and we provide listeners with resources to stay informed and engaged in supporting the recovery and revitalization of Western North Carolina.

Tune in to learn how you can help this cherished region heal and thrive!

Explore What's Open in Western NC
Visit NC
Outdoor NC
North Carolina Wildlife Commission
North Carolina State Parks
Outdoor NC Stewardship

Western NC Recovery Non-Profits
BeLoved Asheville
Samaritan's Purse
828 Strong
MountainTrue
Greater Good
MANNA Foodbank

Mike Andress
Host, Exploration Local
828-551-9065
[e-mail]

Podcast Website
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Instagram: explorationlocal

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This was a catastrophic event that you know
.
No one in living memory livinghere has ever seen anything like
this.
You know we're talking a oncein 5,000 plus years storm.
You know some areas had over 30inches of rain within a 24 hour
period, so you know the amountof water that moved through
these systems was has never beenrecorded.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Those words from Doug Bessler, a biologist with the
North Carolina WildlifeResources Commission, perfectly
capture the scale of thedevastation caused by Hurricane
Helene.
In today's episode we're divinginto the immediate aftermath of
this historic storm and theunprecedented challenges it
posed to North Carolina'swestern region.
From catastrophic flooding towidespread closures, many areas

(00:42):
of western North Carolina wereessentially shut down.
But as waters began to recede,questions arose.
Which parts of the region werestill safe to visit?
How could outdoor enthusiasts,travelers and residents make
sense of the destruction?
We're kicking off today'sconversation with Amanda Baker.
She's the partner marketingmanager for Outdoor NC.
Amanda and her team played areally critical role in helping

(01:04):
the public stay informed aboutwhere to safely explore in the
wake of the storm.
She'll walk us through how theywork to get up-to-date
information out to travelers andto keep outdoor recreation
alive during a time of crisis.
Then we'll hear from BrianStrong he's the director of
North Carolina State Parks aboutthe immediate impact the storm
had on our beloved state parksand the efforts underway to get

(01:26):
those essential spaces back upand running.
And finally, we'll dive intothe impact on North Carolina's
wildlife, with insights fromDoug Bessler on how ecosystems
and aquatic life are adapting tothe devastation caused by the
storm.
So whether you're an outdoorlover, a concerned resident or
simply curious about therecovery process in one of North
Carolina's most cherishedregions, this episode has you

(01:48):
covered.
Let's jump in.
As the recovery process beganfollowing Hurricane Helene, one
of the immediate challenges wasgetting the word out to
travelers about which areas weresafe to visit in western North
Carolina and which ones werestill dealing with the aftermath
of the storm, and which oneswere still dealing with the
aftermath of the storm.
That's where organizations likeOutdoor NC and the state's
tourism resources played acritical role in keeping

(02:09):
visitors informed.
Amanda, you and your team haveworked hard to make sure people
can plan ahead and stay updatedon conditions in affected areas,
and I'm wondering if you couldwalk us through the best
resources travelers can use tocheck road conditions, find out
about open parks and outdoorspaces and to make sure they're
heading to places that are readyfor visitors.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
Before traveling to the affected areas of western
North Carolina, we reallyencourage people to plan ahead
and prepare, checking localofficial government and park
websites for information aboutconditions and impacted routes
or even closures, and thisincludes details about roads,
state parks, trails, campsitesand other outdoor spaces.
Staying informed from thoselocal officials is crucial for

(02:51):
the visit.
If they are considering a visitto Western North Carolina, it's
really important to stayinformed.
Visiting places like visitnccomand our travel advisory page,
which will also include aninteractive map that provides
additional information, orconsulting drivencgov for any
road closures and then reallyreaching out to that local
community and local businessesto see if they're open and

(03:14):
welcoming visitors back.
They can also get real-timeinformation and updates from the
North Carolina Department ofPublic Safety, but the
visitnccom travel advisory pageis really a great start.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
How do we prepare to come back to some of these
damaged areas?

Speaker 3 (03:28):
Yeah, you know, as Western North Carolina works to
rebuild, practicing activestewardship is going to matter
all the more.
So be mindful of how yourpresent might impact local
resources, especially incommunities that are rebuilding
and recovering, and thenunderstanding and considering
what a meaningful differencethat can make within a

(03:49):
destination during thesechallenging times.
Even most parts of westernNorth Carolina are accessible to
guests now, and practicing theseven outdoor and sea leave no
trace principles will continueto be crucial for those going
outdoors and exploring, and byobserving those and giving those
extra vulnerable ecosystems thespace and the time that they
need to heal, free fromavoidable human impacts, is

(04:12):
really going to make adifference.
We want to make sure that wecontinue to be good stewards of
those natural spaces in thecommunities so that they can
grow back and grow back stronger.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
I wonder if we can kind of camp out there just a
little bit longer and talk aboutwhat does active stewardship
look like in practice?

Speaker 3 (04:30):
Yeah, you know it can mean a lot of different things,
but really it brings togethercommunity allies and it's
finding that balance between theresident's quality of life and
a visitor experience.
It's looking at connectingindustry operations and
balancing that economic returnwith social responsibility and
environmental conservation andthe local heritage and nature.

(04:52):
With respect to those assets,it really is about being one and
like a local within your owndestination or when visiting a
destination.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
What I'm hearing in there is like just being
sensitive, you know, to all thethings that make up that
particular area.
Is that kind of part of thisact of stewardship?

Speaker 3 (05:12):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I think something thatis often considered like during
peak travel seasons and how thetrails and certain spaces become
maybe overly loved.
They're popular, people want togo and visit them, while
there's so many other areas inwhich they could go and visit.
So a dispersing of theirvisitation to some of those

(05:32):
lesser known areas and theimpact on resources right now
are that some of those placesare closed.
So we don't want to go to thoseplaces that are closed.
We want to make sure we'revisiting places that are open
and welcoming that visitation,as well as balancing it with our
community and understanding howour impact in those communities

(05:54):
can have a great, make a greatdifference.
For example, you know they someof these places didn't have the
visitation that they typicallyhave in the fall, so visiting
now can help them kind ofcontinue, keep their people
employed and giving back in thatway.
So it's a little bit of agiving back to the places that
give to you and provide thosememories and experiences without

(06:15):
a pull on any local resources.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
That is a phenomenal way to look at this, and so two
things one, visiting some ofthese places in seasons that you
might not otherwise, but one ofthe things you talked about
just a few minutes ago was thecoastal parts and the central
part of our state, the Piedmontregion.
Maybe take this opportunity totravel to another part of North

(06:38):
Carolina that you might notthese times of seasons.

Speaker 3 (06:41):
Absolutely Adding.
A new place to discover couldbe something to think about.
The coastal is often considereda place that people visit
during the summer months, andfall and winter are some of my
favorite times to visit ourcoastal destinations.
You got the beach to yourself,big houses that are more
affordable for renting this timeof year as well.
So, yeah, there's opportunitythere too.

(07:03):
And when we look at thePiedmont region of our state,
going and exploring some ofthose trails and experiencing
what that might be like, often,you know our mountains are
considered the places to go tofor hiking and, believe it or
not, we have some great trailsin the central region of our
state as well as along the coast.
It's different environments.
We're incredibly lucky to haveall of these different

(07:25):
ecosystems within our own statethat we can get out and explore.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
So, no matter where you go in the state of North
Carolina, be it the mountains,piedmont or the coastal regions,
you all are really heavilyfocused on doing this with
proper stewardship and followingleave no trace principles.
And I know that activestewardship is a part of that
and we kind of talked about thata little bit.
But I love to just for ourlisteners, just a little

(07:50):
reminder of what those leave notrace principles are and how do
we apply those here traveling inNorth Carolina.

Speaker 3 (07:58):
It's great, thinking about it from the mountain
perspective, to commit to thoserestored resilient natural
spaces across the state andbrushing up on our outdoor and
sea leave no trace principles.
Those were originallyestablished with leave no trace
in order to look at ourdifferent ecosystems across the
state and come up with somestatewide messaging that makes

(08:18):
sense.
We do know that nine out of 10people who visit our outdoors
are not informed out of leave noTrace.
But a person trained in Leaveno Trace is five times more
likely to protect nature andoften educate others on the
Leave no Trace principles.
And we worked with Leave noTrace to establish principles
that are unique to our ecosystemhere in North Carolina and

(08:40):
across the state.
So the plan ahead and prepare,stick to trails and overnight
right leave it as you find it,trash your trash, share our
trails, keeping wildlife wild,being careful with fire, but
really getting down to the whyof these and how they are so

(09:01):
important to our naturalenvironment.
And this messaging works acrossour state.
So brushing up on those outdoorand see leave no trace
principles can really helprestore and create a resilient
natural space across the stateof North Carolina, but
especially in Western NorthCarolina as it continues to heal
.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
I absolutely love that, and you've actually
created ways that listeners andpeople travelers to the area can
get involved, and you have thisconcept called Join the
Movement Initiative.
I'd love to kind of tap intothat a little bit and then talk
about how listeners and peopletraveling to this area can get
involved to join this movement.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
This is a call to action to not just experience
North Carolina, but to embraceNorth Carolina and to help
preserve our outdoor places forfuture generations.
And they can do so by visitingoutdoornccom and by practicing
the Outdoor NC principles.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
Oh, love that, Love that.
There's an easy button join themovement.
Find all the information thatyou want, plus, on your website.
There's so much otherinformation.
There's trail town guides,there's information about all
different types of activitiesthat you can and would want to
do here in North Carolina,specific to each of these
regions.
So, yeah, find out where youwant to go and then, and then
let's, let's join in and do thatresponsibly as a, as fellow

(10:20):
travelers on this mission here.
Okay, one last thing that youwould love for listeners to
remember about responsibletravel in North Carolina.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
Well, I think the most important thing that folks
can do is plan ahead and beprepared.
That's the number one thing.
But collectively, understandingthat your visitation has an
impact and that it can be apositive impact, and learning
about the outdoor and seaprinciples can help you be an
active steward in ourdestination.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
So, Amanda, when will we get you back up here into
these mountains to enjoy them?
I know you've been gallivantingon the coast and in the
Piedmont, but any future travelplans that you have for the
mountains?

Speaker 3 (11:02):
Well coming out there .
We're actually holding someoutdoor and sea workshops where
we'll be educating some of ourdestination partners about the
outdoor and sea principles andhow to be a destination steward
and working on our trail townsand our outdoor and sea trail
town program.
But I'm really looking forwardto giving back to the community

(11:23):
and engaging with arts anddifferent things within the
communities to help make thatimpact that I know so many of
them need right now followingthe storm.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
I'm so glad you brought that up.
I'd love to maybe talk aboutthat a little bit more, about
some of the ways that you thinkpeople can really help support,
not just coming to these placesyou mentioned the arts, but what
are some of the other ways thatpeople can really kind of give
back?
When the storm first happened,everybody wanted to help the
supplies.
That was the first thing, forsure, and it was so wonderful.

(11:55):
It was amazing actually to seeall of that moving and everybody
kind of heeding that call toaction.
But right now, what are someother practical things and some
tangible things that visitorscan do to really support other
than just kind of spending theirdollars?

Speaker 3 (12:08):
That's a really great question.
Of course, supporting bypurchasing items is one way,
with ShopWNCcom, which promotescommunities and towns that are
open to visitors or havestorefronts where you can show
your support by purchasing fromthose businesses, also like
supporting local visiting abrewery or a restaurant or a

(12:32):
hotel.
They really do need the supportin that way too.
Those are a couple of the waysthat I can think of.
I know they're working on a lotof different things when it
comes to assessing trails andwhat that looks like from a
volunteerism side of things.
So stay tuned for our OutdoorNC Evergreen newsletter for

(12:52):
opportunities, as well as oursocial media page for other
ideas or things along thoselines.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
Oh, that's great, Amanda.
Thanks for sharing that.
And also I just want to thankyou as just a resident here in
North Carolina and thenspecifically up here in Western
North Carolina, everything thatyou all did early after Helene
hit, just really trying toeducate the public.
Thank you for that work thatyou all have done.
You're continuing to do, notjust here in Western North
Carolina, amanda, but all acrossthis great state.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
Thank you so much.
I appreciate the opportunity tospeak with you.
It certainly is a team effortall of the different agencies,
all of our local partners andthe community itself.
We're here to support recoverytoday and tomorrow and the
future.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Next we're going to dive deeper into the impact of
the storm on one of the mosttreasured parts of the state our
state parks.
As many of you know, northCarolina state parks are
critical to outdoor experiencesacross the state, particularly
in western North Carolina, fromhiking and camping to simply
enjoying the natural beauty ofthe region.
These parks play a huge role inboth the local economy and the

(14:09):
quality of life for residentsand visitors alike.
So it's no surprise that whenHurricane Helene hit, these
parks were significantlyimpacted.
To help us understand theimmediate response and the
recovery efforts, we're joinedby Brian Strong, the Director of
North Carolina State Parks.
Brian, thank you for joining ustoday.

(14:30):
I know that the storm's impactwas felt deeply across the
western part of the state and,as the head of the state park
system, I can only imagine howchallenging this time was for
your team.
Can you walk us through howthese parks were initially
affected and what steps you tookand your team took in those
first critical days after thestorm?

Speaker 4 (14:45):
you took and your team took in those first
critical days after the storm.
So one of the first things thatwe did as an agency is we
closed 13 of our western parks,and so we did that for a number
of reasons.
We wanted to make sure that allof our staff were safe first of
all, take care of themselves sothat was kind of our first
priority.
And secondly, we were heavilyinvolved in response to the

(15:08):
storm.
Initially.
We have staff in Raleigh whowent out and managed and worked
in the emergency operationscenter in Raleigh, so we were a
part of that process.
We have over 200 lawenforcement staff within the
division and so they were out onfive-day deployments almost

(15:29):
immediately after the storm.
So they were helping, they weredoing health checks, they were
working at a various number ofthings, including hospitals,
places where they were taking inindividuals who were stranded
by the storm.
They were providing securityfor that.
A lot of roads were closed,bridges, they were manning those

(15:52):
areas.
So did a lot of work initiallyon that and just responding to
that, and so that really was ourfocus for several several weeks
after the storm.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
What was that transition like going from that
first phase into your recoveryphase and what became the
priorities during that recoveryphase?

Speaker 4 (16:09):
Great question and asking a lot of questions.
Okay, is it safe?
Is it safe for our staff to getout there, to be in these areas
where you know there could befallen trees, where they're
going to have to use chainsaws,heavy equipment?
Are the resources there ifsomebody got injured?
So those were kind of the firstquestions we were asking.

(16:31):
So we were in touch with thelocal EMS, we were talking to
the hospitals, we were talkingto emergency management, all of
those, to make sure those areaswere safe to do, even to get out
.
And the first phase of that isthe assessment chase.
So our staff were just goingout to the park and assessing
all of our facilities, all ofour buildings, all of our trails

(16:53):
, all of our roads, all of thatareas.
And that really was the firststep in this is to really to get
those assessments down and toreally understand, you know,
what damages have occurred alongthat way.
And so we closed I think I'vesaid that before 13 of our
manned units in the western partof the state.

(17:16):
So we were doing theseassessments there and just
taking inventory of what's there, what are the challenges and I
think from there getting abetter feel for where we're at
in the process.
You know which ones.
You know.
Hey, there's a lot of damagehere.
Some of these parks we couldn'tget into because of
infrastructure challenges.

(17:36):
So that was kind of the firstphase that we were into as we
started to transition more fromresponse to recovery was in that
assessment phase.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
You really opened my eyes here, though, because I
didn't realize just the breadththat.
You know, when I'm thinkingstate parks, I'm just thinking,
well, you have your parcel ofland and that's kind of what
you're concerned with, but itsounds like it's much, much more
from the very beginning, ofeverybody kind of stepping in
people coming from the easternpart of the state, and, as a
resident of North Carolina,first of all, thank you for all

(18:07):
the work that you all have done.
There was a lot of joy when youstarted to see these state
parks that begin to open,because, you know, from our
perspective it was just going tobe indefinite, and I'm sure
that you know you all wereworking so hard, and so you know
, around the clock, really, Iguess, with 12 on, 12 off shifts
, that you really moved quickly.
Was that move quicker than youanticipated, brian, or was that?

(18:29):
Hey, we have this, even thoughwe've none of us have
experienced a storm quite likethis.
But did it kind of move alongthat continuum as you thought it
would, and did you think thatyou would be opened back up as
quickly as you did?

Speaker 4 (18:40):
We were very fortunate, I think, as an
organization, that we didn'treally have the damage.
We were very fortunate, I think, as an organization, that we
didn't really have the damage,the structure damage that a lot
of other places had.
You know, we had minimum.
I mean there are some partswhere they were very, very
impacted, but for a lot of it itwas a combination of trees down
, damage to trails, damage tosome roads, but they were mainly

(19:05):
sort of back roads.
So from our standpoint we werevery fortunate.
It is great to see how I meanfor me to see how the state came
together.
So that was really great and wegot a ton of help.
So when we were able to get tothat next phase, we had National
Guard at the parks, we hadSawyer crews.

(19:26):
These guys were amazing.
They were like smokejumpersfrom all over the country,
experts in chainsaw work.
They came out and they did workthat it would have taken us
months to do in just a week orso, because they're sort of the
best of the best and they weredoing complicated cutting and
really opening up those trailsin a really quick way.

(19:49):
So I I agree with you, I waitedseveral weeks until this sort
of.
I was careful not to not to getto the west because there was a
travel ban until that was liftedand it was mainly emergency
response that was doing there.
I waited for that, but evenafter that there was a ton of
people DOT and other agenciesthat have been doing so much

(20:10):
work in the western part of thestate and it was encouraging to
see that.
And I look at it this way,we've done probably maybe 70% of
the work.
The next 30% is going to bethat longer.
What I tell people if thisisn't a sprint, it's a marathon.
It's going to take a long timeto get to that next 30% of the

(20:33):
park units.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
That's completely understandable and especially, I
would imagine all the efforts,all the assets, everything
coming in quickly and then fromnow, you know, then that's sort
of the big sweep approach, andthen now I guess it's really the
recovery pieces that are goingto take a long time for
everybody.
But you're talking about stateparks, they're full of trees and
they're full of places thatpeople go Water, lakes, rivers,

(20:55):
trees, cliffs, you know allthese sorts of things and so,
yeah, they have to be safe in anormal situation.
But you know, you throw a stormof a lifetime in there and I'm
sure that recovery takes evenlonger.
So it makes sense that thatlast 30% is going to take even
longer.

Speaker 4 (21:10):
And that 30% is really infrastructure.
It's bridges, it's roads, it'sthat type of facilities that
have to be designed, that youhave to go in there and you have
to get the you know, theconstruction drawings done and
because streams to move, becausebridges aren't, you know that

(21:31):
might not be the best place toput the bridge back.
A lot of that work and efforthas to go into that.
So that's kind of the length ofit and accessing some of these
facilities that we have to waittill those roads are done.
The the other piece that'simportant here is we want to be
respectful some of thesefacilities that we have to wait
till those roads are done.
The other piece that'simportant here is we want to be
respectful to some of thesecommunities and we understand
that.
You know where we can we wantto open back up.

(21:55):
We know parks are an essentialpart of the communities.
People love them, they'repassionate about it.
Most of our parks are localparks, that there is a local
community that comes out therealmost every day and hikes and
bikes and swims and enjoys thesecommunities and we want to
really support those communities.

(22:15):
But we understand there areother communities that they're
really hurting.
They've lost theirinfrastructure.
They're not ready for people tocome back and I think we're
trying to be careful to balancethose two.
We know we're an economicdriver.
We know people travel tocertain parts of the state to go

(22:35):
to parks and we understand thatthat's important.
But we also want to berespectful to those local
communities.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
That is the important piece, and I'm wondering if you
can maybe talk a little bitabout some of those sensitive
areas where you really are.
I know you're being mindful ofall the communities over here,
but maybe we can touch on alittle bit of the parks that are
not open quite yet and some ofthe communities that are around
them.
I'd love to hear more aboutthat.

Speaker 4 (23:02):
Yeah.
So I think for us, the onesthat we know especially are
going to take some long-term,are Chimney Rock State Park,
mount Mitchell State Park, southMountain State Park.
So obviously the town ofChimney Rock and Lake Lure had

(23:22):
really catastrophic impacts.
Small businesses were literallywashed away.
We had a maintenance shop downin the town of Chimney Rock.
That's totally gone, wow.
And then the bridge thatconnects the town of Chimney
Rock to the park is no longerthere.
So those are the kind of thingsthat we know that's a long term

(23:45):
.
You know, when I was out therelooking at it, duke Energy had
to actually helicopter in twopower poles because they could
not get to the site back there.
So they had to helicopter twonew poles in and then put those
in the ground to reconnectelectricity to Chimney Rock
State Park.

(24:05):
Mount Mitchell is a challengingone because of the parkway.
We had some damage there.
We had some road lossage in thepark.
We had just done a majorrenovation on a restaurant up
there.
We lost the roof on therestaurant.
So we have roof damage and somewater damage and then we have

(24:26):
some of damage and some waterdamage and then you know, we
have some of the roads thatwashed out there.
So that's going to take sometime.
But the problem is evenaccessing those areas and that's
going to be sort of thislong-term challenge and being
able to access Mount MitchellState Park from the parkway.
So there's limited access.
So, because of the slides onthe parkway and because you know

(24:49):
they've opened parkway has doneamazing work of getting back
open where they can.
But there are some othercatastrophic, you know, impacts
to the parkway that are going totake some long-term to get back
in and some of the other ones.
We've opened sections as bestwe can.
You know, grandfather, thebackcountry trails are open but
we still have not opened theprofile trail access point

(25:14):
because that connector trail andthe profile trail still need
some work.
They still have a lot of treeswere uprooted and there's
extensive sort of holes and gapsin the trail tread that we
really have to continue to workon, so that one's going to be,
you know, a little bit longerterm.

(25:35):
We're hoping to get that oneopen sooner than later.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
The state parks that are going to be reopened.
I have to believe that there'sgoing to be some changes there.
Some of these, I would imagineit's not like it's completely
unrecognizable, but I have tobelieve there's some changes
even on the ones that you allhave had to, or that you've been
able to reopen.
What should visitors visitingthose parks expect in terms of
safety, accessibility?

(25:59):
Yeah, really kind of those twoprimary things.

Speaker 4 (26:02):
So one of the things that we've been very conscious
of is we don't want to opensomething that's not safe.
So we've been very cautious,even to the point where there
are some trees that are hangingthat probably aren't a problem,
but we want to make sure thatthey're cut, taken down, and

(26:23):
they're probably going to haveto be done professionally before
we get the general public inthere.
We just want to make surepeople are safe as we can.
So I'd say the biggest changeis most of the trails.
All of that information islisted on our website,
ncparksgov, and so folks can gothere.
But I think one of the bigchanges probably is some of the

(26:45):
longer trails are not open yet,Just because, that's you know.
We were able to get some ofthese.
We wanted people to come backto the parks and have a place to
go to hike, picnic, have a safetime.
But some of these longerbackcountry trails, as you can
imagine, there's still a lot oftrees down there.

(27:05):
It's not as easy to getequipment in, so those are some
that we're going to take alonger time to get back up and
running.
So we just ask that people becautious.
We really ask that people don'tgo off trail.
It's not safe usually to go offtrail, but it's even less safe
now to go off trails where wereally have not gotten into

(27:27):
those areas cleared trees.
There could be hanging treesoff trail and so we're really
cautioning people, that wereally want to make sure they're
safe as they're in the park.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
It sounds like everything y'all are doing and I
wouldn't expect otherwise isjust very cautious, very
calculated, understanding thatthere are parts that you want to
open back up because youunderstand that people need this
and want this in their lives,but at the same time you're
trying to balance that with thesafety.
And it definitely makes perfectsense too that some of the
longer trails you know, just asyou were explaining earlier,

(28:01):
these are kind of part of thereally long-term challenges that
you're going to have for totalpark recoveries.
And it's one thing for theshort trails and for people to
be able to get out there, butthere's a lot of miles of trails
within our state parks here andthat is understandably that
it's going to be more of thatlong-term challenge for you all
to recover.
But there's no doubt thatyou'll get there.

(28:22):
It's just going to take alittle bit of time.

Speaker 4 (28:31):
Exactly and you know things will look a little
different.
There's trees down, there'simpacts, the streams look
different, so you know peoplewill see things that are
different.
But we understand that andwe're grateful.
We feel like state parks arereally a part of the fabric of
North Carolina and really a partof the fabric of Western North
Carolina, and so you know, forus we really wanted to get
things back and we understandthat people's physical health,

(28:55):
mental health, spiritual healthreally really is intertwined
with getting people out intonature.
I have that time out in thewoods where I can decompress and
, you know, enjoy that time.
So I think that that's soimportant.
So we are, we're working hardto make that happen for folks
and as cleanup efforts, brian,or anything monetarily.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
How can people who really care for our state parks
get involved with our stateparks, especially right now?

Speaker 4 (29:34):
You know we have a lot of great friends groups that
are engaged in a lot of greatways with the park, so that's
always my encouragement.
They do a lot of work for us,they help us with events, they
do fundraising, so I think a lotof those are areas where people

(29:56):
can really help out and getinvolved in work days.
We're also careful right now Alot of the work that's being
done is that removal and cuttingand things like that.
You know we're hoping as asthat sort of kind of winds down.
But there's a lot of otherthings that I think are huge.

(30:18):
As you know, there's a lot oftrails in the mountains.
There's a lot of trails themountains, the sea trail, the
wilderness gateway all of thesetrail systems that are in North
Carolina, obviously Appalachian,that are going to take some
time.
And I think maybe gettinginvolved in some of these areas

(30:38):
where people can help you knowthey have their own teams that
work with them, but gettinginvolved in that I think is
always great and work days wouldbe a fabulous way to get
involved in assisting in thoseefforts.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
That's great advice and I'll do my best to make sure
that we have as many links toas many of those friend groups
as we possibly can.
So thanks for sharing that.
So any last things that youwould love to share with
listeners that are looking torevisit not just the state know,
I think just having thatmindset, having an awareness, a

(31:30):
caution as we're getting outthere.

Speaker 4 (31:32):
But on the, you know, on the other side of that, I
hope people will re-engage withWestern North Carolina.
It's an amazing place.
There are so many beautifulspaces out there.
I really do think, you know, Ithink the recovery efforts
hopefully we can make itstronger than it was.

(31:52):
Hopefully we can, you know,repair things with resiliency
and come back stronger from thisterrible storm.
And I think it's thatopportunity we have and I know
there's so much momentum just toget things back.
But as we do that, I knowthere's going to be some thought
put into how do we do that in away that we do that sustainably

(32:17):
.
And I think that's always that,as we continue to look at those
things and we look at how canwe make Western North Carolina
more resilient, I know we'lllook at that as we come back and
as we put our facilities backin.
Was this the best place for it?
Is there another place that wecould move, that could be more
resilient to this type of storm?

Speaker 2 (32:38):
Oh, that's wonderful.
Again, on behalf of everybodywho enjoys our North Carolina
State Parks, thank you for thework that you do, that your team
does, and that all of theseancillary groups that come
alongside you have done and willdo as well.
It's great work.
North Carolina State Parks arethe best.
I just wish you all the best asyou're kind of navigating
through this.
And boy, it'd be great, maybein a year from now, to come back

(33:00):
and have this conversation andjust see how far all of this
recovery has actually come andsome of the resiliency pieces
that you all are putting intoplace.
It'd be a real honor to kind ofrevisit that in about a year
from now and see where we are.

Speaker 4 (33:13):
Yeah, that'd be great .
I'd love to do that and, asalways, I I think we we have so
many great supporters and and Iappreciate you know your words,
but you know the park system isfor the people and there's so
many great supporters in ourelected officials.

(33:34):
There's so many people that areso behind the system.
We're just grateful to havethat support and I'm grateful to
have this opportunity today totalk to you about the park
system today, to talk to youabout the park system.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
While state parks were on the front lines of
recovery for communities andvisitors, another group of
experts was focused on theresilience of North Carolina's
wildlife and ecosystems.
One of the big questionsfollowing a storm of this
magnitude is how do our naturalsystems, especially aquatic life
, adapt to such extremeconditions?
Joining us now is Doug Bessler.

(34:13):
He's a biologist with the NorthCarolina Wildlife Resources
Commission who has been at theforefront of assessing the
storm's impact on wildlifepopulations.
Doug, thanks for being here.
After hearing Brian's insightson the immediate closures and
response efforts, we know that astorm of this scale can feel
well overwhelming, both for thepeople and the land.

(34:33):
But from a biologicalperspective, what does recovery
look like for the wildlife inthe region, particularly in the
wake of such unprecedentedflooding?

Speaker 1 (34:42):
This is a catastrophic event that no one
in living memory living here hasever seen anything like this.
You know we're talking a oncein 5,000 plus years storm.
You know some areas had over 30inches of rain within a 24-hour
period.
So you know the amount of waterthat moves through these
systems was has never beenrecorded.
You know lots of lots of floodgauges topped out.

(35:04):
We as scientists didn't thinkgauges topped out.
We as scientists didn't thinkthat they needed to be.
We didn't think there would bestorm events that tall that we'd
be recording.
So it was.
It was really something thatwas catastrophic.
And when you look at thoseimages on tv and as biologists
and as people as we see the, asthe waters, we see it, as you
said, you're looking at that andyou're thinking how in the
world could anything survivethat?

(35:25):
How could there be anythingleft?
So we get lots of questionsfrom the public like what are
you going to do?
Are you going to startrestocking these areas?
Are the fish all gone, and thatsort of thing.
And so it's from a biologicalperspective.
It's actually prettyinteresting because these kinds
of events, although not to thismagnitude, they've happened for,
you know, thousands of years.
You know, across the earth andyou know wildlife populations

(35:48):
and fish in particular, you knowthey have adapted to some
extent to these things.
So you know there's areas like,for instance, where we've had
like massive landslides and ifthat occurred from, say, the top
of a stream and it just we justhad complete blowout of the
entire stream with debris, thenas biologists we would expect,

(36:11):
yeah, that that would have beena significant impact and we
could see where we havepopulations of fish, for
instance, that got fragmented,where we may see losses of
whether it's trout up in highelevations or other species that
might literally be lost in asegment because everything was
scoured completely out of thearea by the debris flows.
And you know we will assesssome of those in the next year
or so just to see what hashappened and what extent of

(36:33):
populations have shifted, liketheir range.
You know where they live withina stream or a watershed.
But in general, those high waterevents, you could even within a
couple of days of the waterreceding.
You could if it was just awater event.
If it was just high floodevents, you could even within a
couple of days of the waterreceding if it was just a water
event.
If it was just high floodevents, you could literally go
out to those locations and stillfind fish there.

(36:53):
They have an unbelievableability to find low velocity
areas within the stream channeland find some refuge.
Certainly individuals wouldhave been lost, but generally
speaking, the same fishcommunity that was there prior
to the event is probably stillthere.
It's hard to imagine.
When you look at thatdevastation you're thinking how
could some small three-inchtrout, as an example, survive?

Speaker 2 (37:15):
that.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
But they do.
Life has an amazing ability topersevere, and the adaptations
that animals have to do thatespecially fish is really
astounding.
So we're anxious to see whatthose impacts are.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
As a biologist and a scientist.
You're pretty brilliant peopleand you've been studying
hydrology and fish and theaquatic life for a while.
I'm just wondering if there'sany long-term impacts right now
that you're sort of anticipating.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
There's different impacts, I guess, depending on
where you might be within thewatershed impacts, I guess,
depending on where you might bewithin the watershed.
So one of the impacts, which isactually, you know, a problem
that people will know, is that,as we saw all this debris move,
you know now we have hugeamounts of deposited sand and

(38:00):
silt in floodplain areas or onthe sides of rivers that the
channel has cut back through,but on the sides of them it's
very unstable, right.
So if we get more large rainevents like, let's say, we would
have had another tropical stormthis fall or something that
might have released a lot moresediment but in the coming years
and decades that sediment willcontinue to bleed into a lot of
our river systems until it getsrevegetated as those riparian

(38:22):
areas come back and start toclose back in on the stream
channel and start to overtake it, where you get into a closed
canopy system where the treesare actually touching over those
streams.
Until that happens and reallykind of locks up that sediment.
You know we're going to standto see sediment impacts on fish
particularly will affect thereproduction.
You know a lot of fish, forinstance, in streams.

(38:43):
They they're nest spawners, sothey're looking for clean
gravelly areas, that kind ofthing, and they're going to lay
their eggs on there.
So when you get a continualsediment impacts on those with
even small rain events, thenthat over time can really impact
populations.
It can impact their spawningsuccess and things like that.
So that's one thing that willbe definitely a negative that

(39:04):
could take.
You know, it's going to takedecades for this to kind of
clear up naturally, where wehave stream channels that we
would consider stable andeverything's coming back
naturally.
A positive would be that youknow in the world of trout you
know in North Carolina we'relucky we have 7,000 miles or we
did of water in North Carolinathat we knew that supported

(39:25):
trout.
Naturally that means theysurvived, grew and reproduced on
their own.
As an agency we don't need todo anything to them.
They do their own thing.
It's an amazing, wonderfulresource, but those fish need
clean, clear gravel to spawn in.
So what happens after a bigevent like this is that this
occurred pre-spawn.
So this was in late SeptemberBrook trout spawned in the fall,

(39:46):
brook trout spawned in the fall, brown trout spawned in the
fall.
Those fish did not spawn yet.
So what happened is that thosehuge rain events came through.
So what fish are left?
It opened up tons of gravel, sonow there's just an enormous
amount of clean gravel intothese headwater systems.
So, as a biologist, what weexpect and we'll be able to

(40:07):
prove it next summer, seewhether we were accurate or not
is that we will expect nextspring to see high success rates
for spawning for trout.
When we go out next summer andwe do some surveys, I suspect
we're going to see all kinds ofsmall trout all over the place,
because that clean gravel whichcan be a limiting factor in many

(40:27):
cases of trout spawning successor the amount of trout that
spawn.
Now, if that's open to any ofthem that are left, as long as a
male of breeding age can find afemale of breeding age, then
they're going to have afantastic spawn.
So there's goods and there'spositives and negatives to.
You know these, these kinds ofevents, but, um, you know,
long-term sediment's going to bethe big challenge.

(40:47):
And then you know there's alsogoing to be systems where we had
major debris flows may havewiped an entire population of
fish out of a segment of streamlet's say it's a mile or half
mile because of, say, a giantlog dam.
So until that clears up,naturally blows out again, fish
won't be able to get back intothat segment.
But those would beopportunities that as an agency
in particular the case of brooktrout, if that's the case we

(41:10):
would look at that as arestoration opportunity and
maybe go in and move fish backinto where they were, just to
keep them in the best habitat,kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
Will stocking these rivers be a part of this as well
?
You'll have sort of therelocation to some areas that
are caused by the blockages, butthen will the restocking of the
rivers help to populate theseas well, just more
longitudinally?

Speaker 1 (41:32):
That's a good question.
So our hatcheries, like forinstance, as an agency, we
produce 1.2 million trout a yearand all of those fish are
sterile so we intentionally makethem so they cannot reproduce.
So the entire goal of ouragency stocking program is to
provide recreationalopportunities for anglers and

(41:54):
our stocking programs are a hugepart of that and anglers love
it and that's a big part of that$1.38 billion that our agency
provides and an economic impactto the state of North Carolina.
It's those stock trout thatpeople love.
But, as I mentioned before,those 7,000 miles of wild trout,
those are a special, uniqueresource.

(42:15):
If we got a place in NorthCarolina that has wild trout in
it, that is a nice place on theearth and we do not want our
hatchery fish to interbreed withthose fish or to out-compete
them.
So we take pains to separateboth physically, like we would
not stock trout in a place wherewe have wild trout reproducing.
As a general rule, we want tobe able to keep our programs

(42:37):
generally in places where by theend of the spring the summer is
going to, the water is going toget too warm, where trout would
not survive their year roundanyway.
So and those are cases for ourstock top program.
Where we can, seasonallywhether it's in the spring where
it's kind of put and take,where we stock trout and people
can immediately harvest them andtake a moment to eat them, or
in the fall when it cools backdown, we stock some in those

(42:59):
locations.
We take advantage of the coldwinter temperatures and we have
a catch and release fishery forstock trout called delayed
harvest.
That's also very popular andthen we open it up for harvest
in the before, in the earlysummer, before it gets too warm.
But in the case of the wild fish, you know, within a riverine
system in particular, thosespecies already are in the
watershed.
They may have got temporarilymoved out of a certain segment,

(43:23):
but as long as they have accessto that segment then they'll
recolonize it very quickly.
So we'll just kind of let themdo their own thing.
And, as I mentioned, like inthe case of brook trout, brook
trout are the only trout thatare native to North Carolina.
Rainbow trout were brought infrom the Sierra Nevada range and
brown trout are native ofEurope and were brought in, but

(43:44):
brook trout are the uniqueresource here that we take great
pains as an agency to protectand try to enhance.
So in the case of brook trout,we would intervene as an agency
and we might move fish frombelow a segment up above it,
because the genetics of thosefish would be the same.
We wouldn't try to takehatchery fish that have a

(44:06):
different genetic and put themup there.
So, generally speaking, we'regoing to let nature take its
course.
It'll do its own thing, andthen people will be amazed at
how fast stuff will rebound.
Nature is surprisinglyresilient.
That's amazing good, because wewould never as an agency.
If you think about how manyspecies are out there and the
numbers of fish, there's no waywe would have to build hundreds
of hatcheries to grow all thedifferent types of fish and the

(44:28):
numbers needed to repopulate.
So luckily, the seeds are outthere and they'll spread back
into those areas that they wereeither devoid of or where they
got really, you know, knockedback a lot and there's just low
numbers, wow, so.
So that's the good news.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
That is good news.
And you mentioned kind of twothings there.
You said with all the new rockbed that it's going to be clean,
so that it kind of expandsthose areas for the fish to
hatch, and so that's a wonderfulthing.
But then you also mentionedjust the economic impact that
angling fishing that brings tothis, this whole region.
And so as people begin to comeback, as areas begin to open

(45:05):
back up, how might these impactsaffect where people can go,
what they can expect to see orexperience in each of these
areas in this river?
So if they're just now comingback first time post to lean
what, what can they expect?

Speaker 1 (45:18):
well.
So what we did is, first andforemost, after, you know, we
made sure everyone was safe andaccounted for and all that kind
of stuff after the impacts is,we started to go out and assess
locations.
So normally there's 30, thisfall would have been in early
October.
We would have started stockingour delayed harvest program at
36 locations in Western NorthCarolina.
That's extremely popular.

(45:38):
It's a huge economic driver forlocal communities and so we
initially had to just postponeour stockings because we didn't
know where we could put fish.
We had one of our trouthatcheries got completely wiped
out the Armstrong State FishHatchery in North American so we
were down to one hatchery.
But we were trying to figureout how are we going to do this.
So our staff went out and weassessed locations.

(46:00):
So we had to make sure that itwas an area that was not in an
immediate disaster recovery area, that it was safe for us to get
to in terms of our stockingtrucks, and then that it was
safe for anglers to get thereand there weren't any hazards.
So we did those assessments andof those 36, I think we were
able to stock about I think 15or something like that and

(46:21):
that's posted on our website andwe started stocking last week.
So in the places that wereunaffected, our hatchery our
other hatchery that wassurviving is up and running and
at some point they don't want tokeep those fish on site.
They need to get them off thefarm, so to speak, because they
were meant to go out this fall.
So we were able to out thisfall, so we were able to.

(46:41):
You know, wherever we had a, anarea that was safe and we could
get to, and we've been checkingwith communities too.
We want to make sure that we'renot sending anglers to
somewhere that they're gettingin the way you know, and that's
a big thing.
You know, it's one thing tohave an economic driver, but
it's quite another thing for usto, by putting trout somewhere,
creating an attractive nuisanceto people trying to do very
important work out there.
So we started that and thenwe've even been able to add some

(47:04):
Like.
An example would be that asthese places come back online,
we can add them Like.
Initially we were not able tostock the Greenway.
There's a section we stock inMarion on the Greenway, right
through town, on the CatawbaRiver.
We did not stock it the firstround because it was not open.
And the community did not at thefirst round because it was not
open and the community did not.

(47:26):
You know we didn't havepermission, so to speak.
But now they do have it open andthe community is in favor of us
stocking and they want peopleback in there.
So we added it back in.
So, as places kind of come backonline, we're adding them.
So we're trying to get peopleout into these areas and, you
know, hopefully, you know, getpeople something to do and get
the angling community that wantsto be out there, out there, and
then of course they're going to, you know, provide some
economic stimulus to those localareas that really really need

(47:47):
it right now, and then we'llcontinue that assessment and as
areas get safe.
But what we've been tellinganglers is that make sure where
you're going to park is safe,make sure it's not interfering
with any kind of utility work orother infrastructure work, and
then be careful in the streams.
All that water shifted the bedof all of our streams, so where

(48:08):
you used to walk and step onrocks that were stable, so to
speak, because they've beensitting in a stream after
something like this, every rockystep on moves or wants to move
and that can be really dangerousand it's very easy to fall.
So we just tell anglers to bevery careful.

(48:28):
If you got a waiting staff,take a waiting staff, you know.
If you got you know, make sureyou're wearing felt sole shoes
if you can, because that helps alot with sliding.
And just you know, take it slowand just be very careful on
moving around the stream.
And even ourselves we've wehave not been out doing a lot of
survey work because of that.
So we're going to let thingssort of settle down and we'll do
some of our trout survey workup on the national forest and

(48:50):
other places a little later orearlier in the spring, just to
kind of let everything settledown and make it safer for our
staff to be out there.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
Oh, that's wonderful.
So it sounds like you reallyare working with a lot of the
local agencies.
You know I guess really nobodysort of at that state level.
These state departments sort ofoperate in these silos and it
sounds like you're really kindof working with the local areas
to say, are you ready for us tostock if there's rivers in their
areas?
And you're just kind oflistening to them.

(49:18):
Then you're sort of followingalong and and being good
partners and when they say youknow, no, not yet.
It's no, not yet.
And when they say that you areready, it sounds like you are
really kind of altering a lot ofyour plans and your schedule
releases and so forth to reallykind of meet the needs of those
communities and the anglers thatcome to those those areas as
well yeah, absolutely, and we'rereally acting on the fly, like

(49:40):
I will tell anglers.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
You know, like that, that issue with Marion just came
up last week and so within aday we had that site added on
our website.
We had talked to the hatcheryproduction folks and they had
the run scheduled.
And there you go, you know,just trying to be as reactive as
you can and just trying to makesure that you know we're double
checking with everyone and tomake sure that, whether it's
another state agency, like, say,dot, that we're not out there

(50:03):
sending anglers across aconstruction zone, for instance,
where they're impeding the workon what might be a bridge, like
out here.
One of the big challenges is theplaces that Vermillion closed
is that the bridges are out sopeople can't get to them.
Either we can't get to them orthe way you have to get to them
is like a very circuitous route,going places where we don't

(50:24):
want people going, or the DOTmight not want people going yet,
that kind of thing.
So some areas, the streamitself might be okay, but
getting there is the challenge.
We're not, you know, we arevery glad to provide
opportunities and it's a stressrelief for a lot of people to be
able to just get outside and bewith nature you know whether

(50:44):
you're catching fish or not butjust to be out there on a
beautiful day like today andcatch a fish or just enjoy that
and be away for a little bitfrom all the stuff that's going
on.
Because everybody that livesout here you're kind of looking
at it every day.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
Every day, yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
So we want to do that .
But you're kind of looking atit every day, Every day, yeah.
So we want to do that, but thelast thing we want to do is get
in the way.
So we're just trying to be verycognizant and anglers have been
super understanding.
We've had quite a few calls andI've not had anybody get upset
when we tell them, hey, here'sour plan.
They just appreciate that we'retrying to get fish out there as
best we can.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
Now that's amazing work.
So thanks for all that y'allare doing there, and I know that
you mentioned calls andquestions.
What are some of those commonquestions that you're receiving
from anglers that you know?
If somebody is listening tothis show, this podcast, they
can, you know, listen in andeven be an ambassador to spread
that you know amongst theirother fellow anglers.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
Yeah, most people are just wanting to know are we
stocking?
And some people have been likereluctant to call and ask, like
they kind of feel like we knowthat was pretty bad right is, is
it even should we be evencalling?
Is that?
You know, they kind of feel notkind of guilty about doing that
.
You know, maybe they live incharlotte because, like we have
huge numbers of people that fishcome and western North Carolina
, from Mecklenburg County andfrom Wake County, huge numbers,

(52:02):
the whole Piedmont, forsythCounty, winston-salem, and so
those people aren't in thatevery day.
So they're just kind of curious.
Like I normally have a trip andyou know I'm trying to find out
.
So we've been, you know, justdirecting people to the agency
website ncwildlifeorg, and wemake any updates on that daily,

(52:23):
whether that's adding newstreams as they come up or
whether something happened wherea road got closed because of
construction and we had to makea change, whether it's a
stocking date or whatever thecase may be.
It's just direct people thereBecause there's a lot of people.
It's amazing the number ofpeople that come to western
North Carolina to fish,particularly in the fall but
even in spring, from otherplaces like the Northeast or the
upper Midwest who come downhere from Ohio, from Kentucky,

(52:45):
from all sorts of places, justto fish.
And one of the reasons for thatis because you know and they've
got means to fish.
They could be fishing out inYellowstone National Park, you
know, they could be fishing inCalifornia, they could be
fishing in all these places andthey come down here,
specifically One, because theydo like our program and I'll
admit it, I think we have afantastic trout program as it is

(53:06):
.
You saw great staff and I thinkwe have one of the best
programs in the East, for sure.
But anyway, people come becauseyou know I think we're
providing a good product andthat economic impact shows that.
But also because it doesn'tfreeze here in the winter, you
can come and fish here inJanuary, go fish in Montana in
January.
So that's a big driver forthese these times of years is

(53:26):
just our, our really niceclimate.
We have compared to, you know,places like out West where it's,
you know, seasonally fantasticbut in the middle of the winter,
you know it's not real high ona lot of people's list of fish,
unless they're just superdiehard, you know.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
Right, well, it's not real high on a lot of people's
list of fish, unless they'rejust super diehard.
You know, right, well, itsounds like you are very
thoughtful in your approach here.
You went through your responsephase.
You're going into recoveryphase.
We know that recovery phase isgoing to take a lot longer and I
do love the fact that there'ssome pros that came out of this.
You know if we can always kindof search for those silver
linings.
But you know, as you were kindof explaining that in this
bedrock sort of expanding, youknow, just as I'm driving up to

(54:02):
Pisgah Forest and I'm goingthrough the, even the Davidson
River, and just seeing I meanit's just changed the broad
Rocky Broad's, changed FrenchBroad, I mean there's so many
areas that they have justchanged so much, and so I know
that recovery work is going tobe a little bit longer.
But it sounds like, you know,in some of the other things, the
structures, they have to be putinto place and studies have to

(54:22):
be done.
But when you're talking aboutnature and it has the ability to
sort of heal itself, yeah, itwill recover.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
It will recover.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
It will recover, and so I love the fact that you have
all of these resources onncwildlifeorg, but I'm wondering
if there's any sort of lastminute things that you really
would want people to know, likewhat's some of the most
important things you wantlisteners to walk away from with
an understanding about thestate aquatic resources.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
Yeah, just that it's going to.
When you come out hereespecially people who've been
out here before or routinelycome out it's going to look
different.
You know some of those.
You can go to some streams andthey look as if nothing happened
.
And you can go to other streamsand it just looks like you
don't recognize anything.
Everything has changed and tojust realize that's just part of
you know the natural processand you know it will heal itself

(55:09):
.
You know, even if nointervention is done, that over
time, you know, and it can begeologic time, but over time it
will, it will go back and thisis just you, just a natural part
of things that happen.
To be just respectful ofeveryone and cautious.
Just because there's so manyequipment, vehicles out here,
just the amount of trucks thatare hauling tree debris away,

(55:31):
it's just crazy.
There's just an immense numberof external people that are in
here doing construction work andjust be mindful of, give them
the right of way.
They got important here doingconstruction work and just be
mindful of you know, let givethem the right away, let them
you know they got important workto do and just be be patient
with people and if roads getclosed or you get held up for 20
minutes because they got toload a truck, then just be
playing for that sort of thing.
And you know, uh, it's justgoing to be part of it, for you

(55:55):
know, a number of years here,you know, like at my son's
middle school, where they hadbasically like a wrecked soccer
field.
That's now a giant pile ofdebris that the Corps of
Engineers is using as a stagingarea.
So it's going to be a whilebefore they, you know, use that
again.
But that's just, that's justpart of it.
And just just be patient.
Check our, check our websiteand you know, and people can

(56:16):
call us at any time.
We're glad to talk with anybody, whether it's somebody in the
community, whether it's anangler, whomever it is, that's
got a question or concern.
That's where here's a resource.
Just give us a call and I canput them in touch with with
anybody most likely who cananswer the question as we wrap
up today's episode, it's clearthat the road to recovery for

(56:37):
western north Carolina is farfrom over.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
While many of the state's beloved outdoor spaces
are reopening and welcomingvisitors back, there are still
countless communities who havelost everything and will be
rebuilding for years to come.
This storm was a reminder ofthe strength of our people and
the resilience of our naturallandscapes, but it also
highlighted the importance ofongoing support.
The recovery efforts will taketime and there will be many ways

(57:06):
we can all help, whether it'sdonating to relief organizations
, volunteering our time orsimply spreading awareness of
the needs in these affectedareas.
Please be sure to check out theshow notes for links to some
great organizations that haveongoing relief opportunities and
ways that you and I can getinvolved.
If you're planning to visit orexplore North Carolina in the
coming months, especially in thewestern North Carolina region,

(57:26):
remember that your traveldecisions have an impact.
Support the businesses, parksand towns that are still on the
mend, and make sure to stayinformed about how you can
contribute to the recovery.
Together, we can rebuild lives,restore communities and ensure
that the beauty of this regionendures for generations to come.
I'd like to give a special thankyou to Amanda, brian and Doug

(57:48):
for taking time to shed light onhow their respective
organizations have been and willcontinue to support our beloved
region and the entire state ofNorth Carolina.
You know I always sign off bysaying I encourage you to wander
far but explore local.
And while that's still true, Itruly encourage you to keep the
people of the hardest hit areasin our region in your thoughts

(58:09):
and prayers.
Winter is setting in and thereare some long, hard days ahead
for many.
Please consider checking outthe links to ways you can help
and, by all means, continue tovisit areas that are welcoming
us all back.
The local economies need yoursupport, so please consider ways
you can support them with yourtime and your talents while you
visit.
Until next time, I do encourageyou to wander far but explore

(58:34):
local.
Thank you.