Can green infrastructure save our rivers? Join us as we explore the French Broad River's transformation with Renee Fortner, Watershed Resources Manager at RiverLink. Discover RiverLink’s efforts in turning neglected riverfronts into community spaces and using innovative stormwater management strategies. Learn about projects like the Woodfin Greenway, Taylor's Wave, and Gateway Park in Asheville's River Arts District.
Despite threats from industrial pollution and stormwater runoff, the resurgence of freshwater mussels offers hope. We'll discuss sedimentation's impact on aquatic life, the Clean Water Act, and local policies vital for river health. Get practical stormwater management tips and learn about RiverLink's Water Rich program for rain gardens and rain barrels. Hear how community partnerships are essential for the French Broad River's preservation. Don't miss this inspiring conversation on collective action and environmental stewardship.
Mike Andress
Host, Exploration Local
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Can we truly transform a once-polluted river
into a thriving community asset?
Join us as we uncover theremarkable journey of the French
Broad River's revitalizationwith Rene Fortner, watershed
Resources Manager at RiverLink.
Rene shares RiverLink'sinspiring history, from
reclaiming degraded riverfrontproperties to creating green
spaces that enrich the community.
(00:20):
We'll learn how stormwaterrunoff has emerged as the
primary threat to the river,overshadowing industrial
pollution, and the innovativestrategies RiverLink employs to
tackle this issue head-on.
We dive deep into thechallenges posed by sediment and
pollutants, revealing theirharmful effects on the French
Broad's diverse ecosystem, andwe discover the groundbreaking
(00:41):
green stormwater infrastructureprojects that mimic nature to
protect and rejuvenate the river.
We also learned about excitingcommunity projects like the
Woodfin Greenway, blueway,taylor's Wave and the Gateway
Park in Asheville's River ArchDistrict.
Renee's passion and dedicationshine through, offering a wealth
of insights and inspiration onhow you and I can get involved
(01:03):
in preserving and revitalizingthis vital watershed.
Tune in and become part of themovement to protect our precious
waterways.
I'll see you on the other side.
You're listening to ExplorationLocal, a podcast designed to
explore and celebrate the peopleand places that make the Blue
(01:24):
Ridge and Southern AppalachianMountains special and unique.
My name is Mike Andrus, thehost of Exploration Local.
Join us on our journey toexplore these mountains and
discover how they fuel thespirit of adventure.
We encourage you to wander far,but explore local, let's go.
My guest today is Renee Fortner.
(01:44):
But explore local, let's go.
My guest today is Renee Fortner.
She is the Watershed ResourcesManager at the local
environmental nonprofitRiverlink.
She is an avid river paddler,home gardener and naturalist and
is continually reminded how theenvironment around us and our
daily lives are affected byaccess to clean and abundant
water.
Renee, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Thanks, mike, I'm really excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
One of the things I love to do right here at the
very outset is give sort of abroad picture of River Link for
people who don't know what isRiver Link and what is the
really, really important workthat you all do.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yeah, river Link, as you mentioned, a local
environmental non-profit.
Our office is in Asheville, downin the River Arts District, but
we work across the eight-countyregion that is the French Broad
River watershed in westernNorth Carolina and we've been
around for a while.
We were founded in the early1980s with this vision to
(02:38):
revitalize the French BroadRiverfront in Asheville.
The river had a long industrialpast and it had been heavily
polluted and neglected.
The local community wasdisconnected from the river and
so Riverlink set out on thistrajectory to clean the river up
(03:01):
, engaged the community membersin that and eventually ended up
purchasing old, derelictproperties along the riverfront
in Asheville and converting them, cleaning them up and
converting them from industryjunkyards, old landfills, into
riverfront parks where everybodycould enjoy the river.
(03:24):
You know, a big driving factorbehind that was this idea that
you know.
If we can foster thatconnection to the river and help
people interact with it andexperience it, then that's going
to lead to this sense ofownership and love for the river
and then that's going to leadto better stewardship of the
river.
(03:45):
And I think we, the community asa whole, and Riverlink has been
very successful in that.
If you're in Asheville, youknow you can go down Amboy Road
and from Carrier Park FrenchBroad River Park, the new Karen
Craig Nolan Park that Riverlinkopened this past year is right
there along the river, all theway down to Gene Webb Park in
(04:08):
the River Arts District.
You know those were all oldderelict properties that are now
very popular for recreation for, you know, visitors and
residents alike.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I did not know that so I didn't know the areas right
along Riverside Drive that youall had something to do with
that as well.
I know the Karen Craig NolanPark.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I know.
So I was just there yesterday.
Oh, yay, yeah, yeah, I justrode all up and down it and love
seeing all the River Link signseverywhere too, and so, yeah,
we sort of did that loop and gota chance to see the new park
there, all the improvementsright across from Wrong Way
Campground and all the beautifulthings that you all did there
too.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
That's right, and maybe you saw the sign and you
read about how it used to be ajunkyard.
I did, I did yes.
And it took about 15 years toclean the soil up there because
it had been contaminated fromthe car crushing operation.
Oh, it was a long process ofletting nature basically do its
thing.
Basically do its thing.
(05:08):
Soil, microbes and nativeplants on that site literally
broke down, the oil and gasmolecules that were in that soil
, contaminating the site, youknow.
And then now it's, you know,safer recreation, and we named
it in honor of our foundingexecutive director, karen Craig
Nolan.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Yeah, and it also serves to connect.
It used to be the missing linkbetween Carrier Park and French
Broad River Park because we hadto keep it fenced off because it
was contaminated and so part ofthe building the park at least
the first phase of it was toconnect that greenway, so now
you don't have to get out ontothat narrow sidewalk along.
(05:44):
Amboy Road.
You can just cruise on throughthe greenway.
That now you don't have to getout onto that narrow sidewalk
along Amboy Road.
You can just cruise on throughthe greenway.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
That's cool.
That's exactly what we did.
We were e-biking.
It was such a good time.
Yeah.
And then did you have anythingto do with sort of that river
left side too, when you leaveFrench Broad Park, going from
there down to New Belgium, orwas that anything with y'all?
Or y'all are on River Wright,on the River Arch District.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah, mostly River Wright.
That was primarily the city ofAsheville.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
And then New Belgium, of course, as a partner and a
landowner along that segment ofthe Greenway.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Cool.
Yeah.
Very cool.
Well, one of the things thatyou focus on in your role with
River Link as the watershedresources manager is stormwater
runoff.
That's a really big thing.
You and I were talking a coupleof weeks ago about just driving
by the French Broad certainsections of it, depending on,
(06:35):
you know, especially after heavyrainfall it sort of turns this
brown, murky color, turbidity, Iguess, increases, so you're not
able to really kind of see andit doesn't seem clear.
And so the first my comment waswell, gosh, I don't know, is it
dirty, does it seem dirty?
And and you really sort ofstarted to open up my eyes to
really what's going on.
(06:56):
And then since then I've justtried to learn as much as I can
and that's what we're going tounpack today.
But I know that's your passionarea and so, at high level, I
love for us to just kind of talkabout stormwater runoff and how
it is the number one threat tothe health of the French Broad
River.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Yeah, absolutely yeah .
I mean, the river is muchcleaner than it used to be.
But protecting and restoringthe river and all the tributary
streams that flow into her?
And restoring the river and allthe tributary streams that flow
into her.
You know it continues today andit will continue.
And yeah, as you mentioned,stormwater runoff is.
You know, it used to beindustrial pollution.
(07:32):
That was the biggest threat tothe river, and now it's
stormwater runoff.
Yeah, it's basically rainwaterthat, rather than soak into the
ground like it would in anatural area, it flows across
hard surfaces like rooftops,parking lots, driveways, and
those hard surfaces don't allowthe rainwater to soak into the
(07:53):
ground.
Instead, it runs across thelandscape.
This, but the storm drains thatyou see along our streets and
in parking lots, those are pipeddirectly into the nearest
stream or the French Broad River, and that water doesn't go to
the wastewater treatment plantin Woodfin where it gets
(08:15):
filtered out.
That water goes directly intothe stream, untreated, and so
you can just picture that watermoving across a parking lot and
the things that it picks up andthen delivers into our streams
and into the French Broad River.
So it's the runoff and what's init that's impacting the river,
(08:36):
but then it's just the sheeramount of water that these hard
surfaces shed Many millions,even billions of gallons of
runoff annually.
We ran a calculation recently.
We looked at all of the rooftopsurface area just in Buncombe
County using GIS and then wetook that number and then we
(09:01):
took the average rainfall in agiven year.
And then we took the averagerainfall in a given year roughly
42 inches of rain in Ashevilleand then we calculated the
gallons of water that's beingshed by rooftops and it was 8
billion gallons of water a year.
That's insane.
And then we looked at, okay,well, how many Olympic swimming
pools would that amount of waterfill up?
(09:22):
And it was something like 450Olympic swimming pools and it
would stretch across the entirestate of North Carolina.
And so that's not to say thatevery rooftop is piping its
runoff into a creek, but many ofthem do, and so that just kind
of highlights how much waterthat is and it's being delivered
(09:43):
to our streams basically all atonce, and so it creates this
real flashy stream hydrograph wecall it.
Where you know, during a rainin our urban streams, you'll see
the water levels rise reallyrapidly because of that incoming
runoff runoff, and then, assoon as the rain stops, the
(10:04):
water recedes really quickly.
So it's very flashy and thatcauses all sorts of issues.
You know definitely makesstream bank erosion worse, and
so, yeah, those in a nutshell,that's stormwater runoff and why
it negatively impacts theFrench Broad River.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah, so I would imagine there are certain areas
that are probably a little bitmore susceptible to the urban
runoff.
Obviously, you've got theheadwater starting, you know,
way up near Rosman and then itsort of creeps its way down and
then, obviously you know, outinto Tennessee or up into
Tennessee.
Are there certain areas thatare worse than others?
Are there certain just I don'tknow if it may be worse is the
right way or just differentcontaminants that are being
(10:47):
introduced into the watershed atcertain places?
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, I've paddled theFrench Broad Paddle Trail from
the headwaters in Rosman toAsheville over a spring break
trip a few years ago with myfamily and you could visibly see
the difference in the clarityof the river as you moved
downstream.
And there was a noticeabledifference in water quality once
(11:14):
you got to Brevard, which wasthe first really big urbanized
area on that stretch of theriver.
Yeah, the clarity went way down.
And so you can visibly see it.
And then we know from waterquality testing that's been done
that water quality degradeswhen you get close to these
urban centers where there are alot of hard or impervious
(11:37):
surfaces that generate morestorm water runoff.
It's not to say that runoffdoesn't occur in rural areas,
you know there's certainly theirown challenges I mean to that
type of area in terms of, youknow, agricultural lands can be
a source of runoff too ifthey're not managed well.
(11:59):
But yeah, what happens on theland affects what's happening in
the water.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
All right.
So we understand what theproblem is.
We understand that rain runoffis a real thing.
We understand that the impactthat these heavy rains make,
sometimes especially in theurban areas, but, as you said,
even in some of the other areasof farmlands they have their own
set of unique challenges aswell.
Let's talk a little bit aboutjust this area and its increase
(12:28):
in population, because in the 11years I've lived here it's
increased significantly.
Downtown, here, you know allover.
But how is the increase in thepopulation and the economic
development in Western NorthCarolina affecting this rain
runoff, affecting all that we'retalking about?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Well, you know, with development comes more hard or
impervious surfaces that don'tallow the rainwater to soak into
the ground.
We need economic development.
We need more housing.
You know we have a shortage inhousing stock here and that's
driving up the cost of housingin housing stock here and that's
(13:22):
driving up the cost of housing,so which in this region we're
actually a climate refuge forfolks that are moving from other
parts of the country, likeCalifornia and South Florida.
But you know we experience ourown impacts from climate change,
extreme weather events beingone of them, and you know,
significantly heavier, moreintense rain events, and so
(13:46):
that's also going to exacerbatethe runoff issue.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
You know, one thing I'm realizing that we really
haven't talked about is what arethose negative impacts?
Like we talked about the waterchanging and we talked about
some of the contaminants andthings that get in the river,
but it really does affect it.
And yesterday when I was riding, I met a gentleman who gosh, I
(14:11):
think he said he's lived herefor like 30 years and we rode
basically at the end of thatgreenway downtown and we were
right there at Hominy Creek andhe was talking about this sand
and dredge area that it used tobe.
And then when I looked at itlast night on Google Earth, I
was like, yeah, this is wherethey were having to dredge and a
lot of the silt and everythingthat gets in.
But this really does affect themarine life, it affects the
biodiversity, it affects a lotof things, and that's the part
(14:34):
that I think we need to connectto is really kind of what's
happening, because we see thewater changing colors or the
river changing colors, we seeall the rain, we see it running
down our streets and in guttersand so forth, but what's really
happening in the river?
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Yeah, yeah, you know, the French Broad River
watershed is one of the mostbiodiverse freshwater systems in
North America.
So when you think about aquaticbiodiversity, you usually think
about tropical life in oceansright, you know, reefs and all
the fish that live in and amongcoral reefs, but in terms of
(15:08):
freshwater, so, like riversystems, the French Broad River
watershed is part of theTennessee River Basin and it
just happens to have really highrates of biodiversity in terms
of freshwater fish, freshwatermussels, among other animals,
and so, yeah, it's a reallyspecial place.
(15:30):
But the biodiversity in theFrench Broad River has suffered
over the years, first from theindustrial pollution that was
being piped into the river andnow from the stormwater runoff.
And stormwater affects life inthe river in a number of ways
Sediment we talk about how muddythe river looks after a rain
(15:55):
and that's because of thesediment that is getting into
the river.
And you know we think ofsediment.
It's natural, it's a naturallyoccurring thing and rivers
naturally have sediment in them.
But there is a point at whichthere's too much sediment and it
negatively impacts what'sliving in the river.
And so that sediment is comingfrom the stormwater runoff and
(16:18):
it's originating fromconstruction sites where you
have exposed soil, constructionsites.
Where you have, you know,exposed soil, it's coming from
stream bank erosion and that'sall made worse by stormwater
runoff.
And then stormwater runoff isthe carrier of the sediment that
brings it to the river.
But sediment destroys aquatichabitat.
(16:40):
It covers the rocks in thebottom of the river and fish
rely on those rocks for layingtheir eggs.
So it disrupts the fish abilityto breed in the river.
It clogs their gills, it canaffect their immune system and
make them more susceptible toparasites and disease, to
(17:09):
parasites and disease.
Freshwater mussels are filterfeeders and so they siphon water
and pull out small particlesthat they feed on from that
water.
And when the water's laden withsediment they're unable to feed
.
And that's a big reason why ourfreshwater mussel populations
are suffering in the FrenchBroad River.
And then sediment also.
It poses a human health concernin that sediment can bind to
(17:34):
other pollutants like heavymetals, fecal coliform bacteria,
and then it can transport thosepollutants throughout the
watershed can transport thosepollutants throughout the
watershed.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Is there any data or anything that kind of tracks the
improvement or is it gettingworse in terms of the marine
life and the biodiversity?
Is that something that you all,I mean?
I know, like there's the FrenchBroad River Keepers, for
example, and they're constantlymeasuring and so that's kind of
seeing what the result is.
But is there any data that justkind of says is it cleaning up,
is it getting better?
Is it getting better, is itgetting worse?
(18:06):
Where are we today?
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Yeah, that's a good question.
I'm not aware of any long-termdata sets out there tracking the
water quality in the FrenchBroad River.
There is data on the sediment,the turbidity of the river.
There's, as you mentioned, theRiver Keepers Tracking fecal
(18:28):
coliform bacteria.
There's another organization inBlack Mountain called the
Environmental Quality Institutethat does water quality sampling
really much throughout westernNorth Carolina on different
tributary streams of the FrenchBroad River, and it can vary
from year to year based on howmuch rainfall we've had.
So if we're in a relatively dryyear, maybe even a drought
(18:53):
period, water quality is goingto be pretty darn good because
the river's not receiving thatstormwater runoff and so I think
it can be a difficult thing totrack long term.
But we do have some promisingsort of data coming from Fish
and Wildlife Service.
So they track endangeredspecies and they go out and they
(19:13):
do freshwater mussel surveys,fish surveys, looking and
tracking populations ofendangered fish and mussels, and
they have seen some of thefreshwater mussels in particular
kind of making a comeback inthe French Broad River, and so
that's really encouraging, Ithink.
But I think, as you mentionedearlier, as development
(19:35):
continues to increase, that wecan't kind of let our guard down
and be like, okay, it's allgood Things are coming back,
because there's certainly thepotential to backslide and to
lose some of the progress thatwe've made.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
What are some other things that are kind of being
done to help stop it, mitigateit, if it's awareness to
contractors or just the workthat y'all are doing?
Speaker 3 (20:00):
So because stormwater runoff is a major source of
pollution for our waterways, itis regulated by the federal
government through the CleanWater Act.
So there are regulations arounddevelopment and a certain size
development might trigger therequirement to manage the
stormwater and keep more of iton site.
(20:22):
Stormwater and keep more of iton site.
And so you know we have localordinances.
Buncombe County, hendersonCounty, city of Asheville, all
have their own uniquedevelopment ordinance that
requires certain sizedevelopments to manage their
stormwater runoff.
But for the most part singlefamily homes don't trigger any
requirement to treat yourstormwater runoff, it's just
(20:45):
voluntary.
And so there's local governmentplays a role in that and you
know, I think from Riverlink'sperspective, we would certainly
love for those requirements toapply to sort of a broader scope
of businesses and, you know,residences.
But there are some incentivesout there cost share programs
(21:09):
that can help encourage peopleto voluntarily, businesses to
voluntarily do more to managetheir stormwater runoff.
There's grant funding that'savailable, that nonprofit
organizations like Riverlinkhave access to, grant funds that
are from state and federalgovernment that can help promote
(21:31):
and kind of offset the cost ofmanaging stormwater runoff on
commercial sites.
We actually have a reallyexciting project that's about to
go under construction.
It's a collaboration withRiverlink and AB Tech Community
College in Asheville.
Oh cool.
And we got funding through theEPA's 319 grant program to help
(21:53):
AB Tech replace this largeparking lot that they don't use
and it generates a lot ofstormwater runoff that then gets
piped directly into the smallstream on their campus, which
then feeds into the French BroadRiver, and so we're going to
work with them to replace thisparking lot with a constructed
(22:13):
stormwater wetland and it'sgoing to be a really beautiful
amenity for the campus.
It's going to have trails thatgo around it and it's going to
be planted with native plantsand trees and there's going to
be educational signage and it'salso going to serve as an
outdoor classroom for.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
AB Tech students.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
They're going to be collecting long-term data on the
impact of that wetland and thebenefits that it's going to
provide to Haith Branch and theFrench Broad River.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Oh, that's great.
Let's stay with that stream ofthought, because now we're
talking about solutions andwe're talking about things that
are reducing or mitigating, ifyou will, the runoff.
What are some of the otherthings that you've done?
What are some of the otherprojects that you've been
directly involved with or thatyou all are really sort of
pushing to really fight this?
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Yeah, I don't think I've used this term yet, but I
want to introduce this termgreen stormwater infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Oh, I like it.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
And that is really what we're preaching, that we
need more of.
So historically we've managedour stormwater runoff with what
we call gray infrastructure, sothat series of gutters and
downspouts and storm drains andoutfalls.
And the goal of the grayinfrastructure, the way it is
designed to function, it justmoves water off-site as quickly
(23:29):
as possible.
And the alternative to that issomething that we call green
stormwater infrastructure.
And these, the goal of greenstormwater infrastructure, is to
kind of mimic nature beforedevelopment occurred and you
keep the runoff on site wheneverpossible and you give it an
opportunity to soak into theground, where soil microbes and
(23:52):
the plant roots can filterpollutants out of the water.
They take up some of that waterand then what doesn't get
soaked up by the plants is goesinto the groundwater table and
actually recharges ourgroundwater.
And so green stormwaterinfrastructure is really the
path forward.
(24:12):
And there are quite a fewreally great examples of green
infrastructure, you know, in ourcommunity the town of
Hendersonville comes to mind.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Okay.
So they actually have done somegreen infrastructure there.
They have large cisterns thatharvest the roof runoff from
maybe a facilities managementbuilding where they have mowers
and trucks stored there, and sothey're harvesting the roof
runoff, keeping it on site andthen they're using that to
(24:44):
actually wash their equipment onthat site.
There's also some rain gardensthere that capture runoff from a
parking lot and soak it intothe ground and keeping it out of
the creek that flows throughthe park.
So that's a really greatexample and they actually have
what they call a stormwater walkwith some educational signage
and you can walk through thepark and you can read about the
(25:06):
different green infrastructurefeatures there.
Another one Town of BlackMountain we just partnered with
them last year.
They have Lake Tomahawk Parkreally beautiful lake.
The backdrop is, you know, themountains out there the.
Black Mountains.
It's really lovely Walk-intrails.
A lot of ducks hang out in thelake.
(25:26):
They had a parking lot that wasjust discharging stormwater
runoff directly into the lake,and they have sedimentation
issues in the lake.
They have to dredge itperiodically, and so we worked
with them to construct what'scalled a bioswell, and it's this
feature between the parking lotand the lake, and now the
(25:47):
runoff goes into this depressedarea that's planted with native
plants and it gets filteredthere and it's keeping it out of
Lake Tomahawk, and so it'sbecome a beautiful amenity for
the park, but then it's alsohelping protect the lake.
That's so cool the lake.
(26:09):
That's so cool.
And then another project thatcomes to mind that's very dear
to my heart is the SouthsideCommunity Stormwater Project and
this was a Riverlinkpartnership with the Asheville
Housing Authority and weaddressed runoff in this public
housing community in theSouthside neighborhood of
Asheville.
Residents were being negativelyimpacted by this runoff that
was getting onto a residentialparking lot and it was so just
(26:32):
constant and frequent that theparking lot was covered in this
really slippery algae and thenin the wintertime the water
would freeze.
And so it made slippery, unsafeconditions for people trying to
get to their cars, and so wedesigned and installed a whole
series of green infrastructurefeatures that now collects the
(26:57):
roof runoff and the parking lotrunoff and soaks it into the
ground.
So there's a series of raingardens, there's this feature
excuse me, that looks like anatural stream bed that goes
down slope.
That slows the stormwater down,gives it a chance to soak into
the ground, and then there's astormwater wetland with a trail
(27:17):
around it.
And so you know, in addition tothe water quality benefits of
green infrastructure, there'smany co-benefits to it as well.
They can be amenities for acommunity or for a residential
property.
They're, you know, they can bevery attractive landscape
features, but they can also helpprovide recreation
(27:38):
opportunities.
So you know, as I've mentioned,walking trails a couple of
times, associated with theseprojects, and they can help
provide, especially in our urbanareas.
You know you're removing hardsurfaces and you're replacing
them with natural vegetation,and that can help with the urban
heat island effect, and so youknow you're building climate
(28:00):
resiliency at the same time asyou know you're protecting water
quality.
So, if you can't tell, I'm a bigfan of green infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you know it's interestingbecause it's been several years
.
But a good friend of mine wasthe facilities director at the
University of Tennessee, Memphis, and this is years ago.
But even back then he was avery big proponent of these
types of catching.
You know catch areas Back thenI don't know if he had a name
for it, but it was like thiscatch basin and I remember
(28:29):
looking at him going the firsttime and thinking well, it looks
so beautifully landscaped.
And then all of a sudden it gotflooded and I'm like, is this
going to kill it?
And you're like, no, mike, thisis by design and this is
exactly why we do this.
And it's so cool to sort ofhave this come full circle
almost 20 plus years later andto see the work that you all are
doing and see some of theexamples and hear some of the
examples that you're talkingabout right now.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Yeah, yeah, that's so good.
I think some people refer to itas low impact development and I
think it can be under thatumbrella of low impact
development and I think the termgreen stormwater infrastructure
is kind of new over the pastfew years, but it's been around
for a while, okay For sure.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
So let's turn our focus to homeowners on the
residential side and maybe someof the things that they can do,
because those were like big,really important projects
affecting a community.
But what about the individualhomeowners?
Because there are some thingsthat we can do.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Yeah, riverlink has a program called Water Rich and
you can access it through ourwebsite, but it is focused just
on residential stormwatermanagement.
And I would say you know, ifyou're a property owner, you
start by observing your site,walking around during a rain
event, look at where the water'sgoing, where do your downspouts
(29:45):
drain to, and look foropportunities.
If that water is leaving yoursite, look for opportunities to
keep it on site where it cansoak into the ground, and the
good news is that there are alot of opportunities and lots of
options for how you could dothat.
So we promote in our Water RichGuide things like rain gardens.
We promote in our Water RichGuide things like rain gardens.
(30:06):
So these are just smallbowl-shaped landscaped areas
that typically you're routing aroof downspout into it.
And because it's likebowl-shaped, it's filled with
native plants that are beautiful.
And because it's bowl-shaped,it's designed to hold water for
a short period of time and giveit a chance to soak into the
(30:28):
ground.
And there are native plantsthat are adapted to having their
roots wet for a period of timeand then dry for a period of
time.
And in our Water Rich Guidethere's a whole list of trees,
shrubs, perennials that willthrive in that environment.
(30:49):
Other things that you could dosay, you're a gardener or you
have a lot of potted plants thatneed watering.
Maybe you want to install arain barrel and route a
downspout into a rain barrel anduse that rainwater to water
your plants.
Very cool.
(31:13):
If you have municipal water,then you're going to be saving
on your water.
You're Very cool aboutdischarges onto my driveway and
then that's going into thestreet and that's going to go
into the storm drain down there.
Maybe I just put an extender onthe downspout and I reroute it
(31:34):
to the lawn.
Maybe you have a lawn areawhere you could let that water
soak into the ground instead, oran existing landscape bed, and
so we call that disconnectingyour downspout.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
And that's really the most basic, inexpensive thing
that you could do as a homeowner, just trying to make sure that
it's not running off on hardsurfaces where it can run away.
We want it to stay and use thebenefit of it.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
That's right, and sometimes our downspouts are
buried below ground and ifthere's a stream in your
backyard and you go back thereand look, you might see that the
contractor piped your downspoutinto the stream and that's
perfectly legal, but certainlynot desirable, because you're
(32:19):
contributing to, you know, thatlarge volume of water that's
getting into our streams duringrain events, and so that's an
opportunity there to bring thewater back closer and keep it
out of the stream.
And you certainly you knowthere's certain guidelines you
want to be mindful of.
You don't want to create adrainage issue in your basement
(32:42):
or your crawl space, and so youcan look at our water rich guide
and you can see some thingsthat you want to keep in mind,
like you want to make sure yourdownspout is discharging you
know, at least five feet awayfrom the foundation of your home
and you want to make sure thatthe area drains within a certain
period of time, and but there'ssome simple steps you can go
through to make sure that yoursite's going to be appropriate
(33:04):
for these types of measuresgoing to be appropriate for
these types of measures.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
So there's probably some partnerships that are out
there that they're notnecessarily direct work that
y'all are doing, but then youhave some partnerships that are
out there too.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Absolutely.
I mean, RiverLink is not theonly organization working to
protect the health of the riverand protect water quality in the
French Broad River watershed.
There's Mountain True and theRiverkeeper Program Conserving
Carolina and Hendersonville.
They're doing a lot of workalong the French Broad River as
it flows through Transylvaniaand Henderson County.
(33:35):
And then you have your localgovernments, who, many of them,
have stormwater programs.
They own and manage the grayinfrastructure that is designed
to keep our streets fromflooding, and so they have, you
know, permits to dischargestormwater into local streams,
(33:57):
the impacts of their stormwaterrunoff on our local waterways.
Part of having a stormwaterdischarge permit is providing,
(34:27):
you know, public education,raising awareness about the
impacts of this consortium oflocal government, business,
nonprofits that all have a stakeor work in some capacity on the
French Broad River.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
So what you're really describing is this larger
network and partnership of theseorganizations and groups.
As you say, you're not the onlyone that's out there looking
after it, it's this whole entireFrench Broad partnership.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
So we talked about some of the nonprofits and some
of the other groups that arepart of it.
But how do we get localgovernments and policymakers to
really kind of get behind thisin any way if it's just creating
policy or support or awarenessor whatever it may be?
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Absolutely.
That's a great question.
It's going to take all of usworking together to tackle this
issue.
So local governments developthe local stormwater ordinance
for their community, and thatstormwater ordinance sort of
dictates how stormwater ismanaged when a development
(35:28):
occurs, for example.
So if the development isincreasing the area of hard or
impervious surface, then thatmight trigger a requirement for
them to install some greeninfrastructure to reduce the
amount of runoff that they'regoing to generate.
And so, you know, we wouldcertainly love to see, as I
mentioned earlier, thatordinance to be more restrictive
(35:51):
and more expansive in terms ofwho is required to treat their
stormwater runoff.
But in the state of NorthCarolina, you know, we have kind
of a unique legal structure inthat the state legislature has
the ability to limit localgovernment's ability to create a
more strict ordinance, and so,as it stands currently, local
(36:14):
governments cannot make theirstormwater ordinance any more
restrictive than what the stateof North Carolina has said, and
so, in order for that to change,we would have to, you know,
elect different officials to thestate legislature, people who
are, you know, want toprioritize water quality, and
stormwater runoff is a hugecomponent of that.
(36:37):
And so there's some politicsthere, as there are with most
things to provide incentives.
So if you can't legislate it,then perhaps you can incentivize
it.
I'm a big proponent ofincentives, and so these would
be things like cost shareprograms.
(36:57):
The city of Raleigh hassomething called rainwater
rewards and I think that couldserve as a good model for some
of our local governments, wherethe local government takes a
certain amount of maybe it'stheir stormwater fee money and
they provide a cost share wherethey pay, you know, perhaps 50
percent of the cost of a raingarden installation for a
(37:20):
resident or rain barrels.
Incentives for developers couldbe perhaps a reduced stormwater
fee, maybe some a reduction inthe permit fees.
You know there's a variety ofways that other local
governments have found toincentivize more green
stormwater infrastructure intheir communities.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
So you all are obviously doing great work and
we've talked about thepartnerships that are doing
great work as well but I have tobelieve there's got to be some
inspiring stories out there fromcommunity members where they
really are taking action to helpprotect our waterways, and I'm
wondering, if that's true, ifyou might be able to share a few
of those stories with us.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Sure, I would encourage listeners to also
check out our website and thispublic service campaign that we
have going on right now.
It's called Reduce Rain Runoff.
We have, on that campaign webpage, we have a series that
we're calling the StormwaterDiaries, and these are stories
inspirational stories of people,business owners and residents
(38:23):
in the watershed that have takenaction to manage their runoff,
and so one of those stories,sunny Point Cafe.
It's a small business in WestAsheville.
They were having some floodingissues on their parking lot and
it was coming from the roof ofthe restaurant, and so they
found a creative solution toaddressing the flooding, but
(38:45):
also found an opportunity toharvest their roof runoff, and
so they've installed somerainwater cisterns and these are
tall metal tanks that are nowcapturing the roof runoff which
was flowing onto their parkinglot and causing problems, and
they're using that rainwater towater their kitchen garden.
They have a beautiful kitchengarden behind the restaurant
(39:07):
where they use the plants fromthat.
They cook them in the kitchen,and so I think that's a really
inspirational story for a smallbusiness and also highlights how
you know the co-benefits ofthese practices addressing
flooding issues, protectingwater quality, saving on their
water bill by using the freerainwater to water their kitchen
(39:29):
garden.
And then we have severalhighlights of residents that we
know that have done proactivethings on their property.
One person in particular I canthink of this gentleman named
Ben Harper and he lives neardowntown Asheville and he lives
kind of on a slope but near thebottom of the slope.
(39:53):
So he was getting a lot ofrunoff from neighboring
properties and from the streetand he has addressed the runoff
issues coming off site.
But then he's also is nowcollecting all of his roof
runoff and keeping it on his ownproperty because he's not at
the very bottom of the hill.
He has some neighbors below himand his runoff was also
impacting them, and so he'sinstalled some rain barrels.
(40:17):
He's built what's calledbioswells on his property.
These are kind of like raingardens but they're long and
narrow and almost like terraces,so a series of these swales and
berms, because his propertysloped and he's now routing some
of his roof runoff into those.
They're planted with edibleplants.
(40:39):
So strawberries?
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Oh, no way.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Mint and blueberries that are planted in and around
the bioswells, so you can manageyour runoff and enjoy the
fruits of your labor in theprocess.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Pun intended.
Yes, right, oh, those are greatstories.
And then I have to believe thatthere are other big projects
that y'all are working on aswell, and I love to kind of,
maybe kind of talk a little bitabout that, because you have the
current projects that you've,or the projects that you've done
, the current projects, and thenon your website you also have
some really, really cool stuff.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
That's that's coming down the pike too, and I wonder
if you can kind of give us alittle preview there too yes,
you know, in addition to thisongoing sort of water quality,
watershed health work that we doat River Link, we still
continue building parks,riverfront parks, we're still
continuing to introduce people,connect them to the river.
(41:37):
And so a couple excitingprojects that were involved in.
Just last week we were part ofthe groundbreaking ceremony on
the Woodfin Green Way Blue Wayproject.
So this is a really ambitiousinitiative that the small town
of Woodfin has taken on.
(41:57):
A few years ago their residentsvoted to pass a bond referendum
that would fund in large partthis project that will create
five miles of new greenway alongthe French Broad River,
connecting Woodfin Residence tothe riverfront, expanding
Riverside Park and building anew park called Silver Line Park
(42:18):
, which opened last year.
But on Friday we had thegroundbreaking ceremony on
what's going to be the expandedRiverside Park and an in-river
whitewater wave feature that isgoing to be constructed.
It's going to be called Taylor'sWave and that's in honor of
this community member who'sreally been the driving force
(42:40):
behind the project, mr Mark Hunt, his son, taylor.
The wave is being named in hishonor and it's going to be a
world-class feature that's goingto attract people from all over
and local boaters are going toenjoy it, but it's going to be a
fun play wave.
Yeah, so that's goingconstruction starting on the
(43:00):
wave this summer and should becomplete by early 2025.
And, for those who areinterested in surfing the wave,
it's designed such that you knowtubers and other boaters can
easily bypass it.
But it's going to be anincredible amenity, economic
driver for the town of Woodfinand it's going to be a really
(43:22):
great feature for local boaters.
Incredible, you don't have todrive 30 minutes to find, you
know, a whitewater feature likethis.
There's going to be one rightin town.
I love that not getting all ofthe funding partners on this
(43:47):
project.
You know, certainly privatedonations.
And, yeah, Riverside Park andthe Greenway is being designed
by Equinox Environmental.
Baker Grading is the contractorthat's going to build the wave,
and there are other partnersthat I'm not remembering, but
Equinox Environmental.
They're a local Asheville firmand they have been involved in a
(44:09):
lot of public park projects.
That's cool.
Very talented and prolificlandscape architecture firm that
has a real focus onenvironmental stewardship.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Love that.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
They designed New Belgium's campus.
I don't know if you've been toNew Belgium Brewery.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Just drove by it last night.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Right on the French Broad.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:30):
But knowing what you know now, the next time you go
there to have a beer, I want youto keep an eye out for all of
the green infrastructure ontheir campus.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, there's a lot.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
A lot.
They went above and beyond whatwas required of them by the
stormwater ordinance and theycapture and treat all of the
runoff there.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
That's amazing From their campus.
Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
Yeah, but then also River Link just got funding to
build another riverfront park.
That's down in the River ArtsDistrict but it's in an area
that currently doesn't have anypublic green space.
So there's Pearson Bridge onRiverside Drive that connects
the Richmond Hill community toRiverside Drive and there's a
(45:13):
small parcel there beside thebridge that Riverlink owns.
It was donated several yearsago by the Stanback family which
owns Ohm Sanctuary on the otherside of the river.
It's going to become GatewayPark and it's going to be the
first public green space on thatsection of Riverside Drive.
And in the near future the cityof Asheville's Wilma Dykeman
(45:37):
Greenway will be coming throughthere.
The I-26 connector project isgoing to be bringing bike lanes
to that section of RiversideDrive.
(46:06):
Wow, the passive recreation onthe river.
It's actually fun fact.
It's the historical location ofRiverside Park, which was
Asheville's first Riverside Park, was destroyed during the 1916
flood and it was never rebuilt.
Wow, a rebirth of that originalpark.
(46:28):
And we're going to have apavilion at the park that is
designed based off of thecarousel that was there at the
original Riverside Park.
So we're going to pay homage tothe Riverside Park of the past.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
That is so cool.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
Yeah, so a lot of really exciting things happening
along the river and throughoutthe watershed.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
Oh, I love that.
I just love I mean I really donot just because you're here,
but I just love hearing oforganizations and their stories
and how everybody is sort oflooking to improve, protect,
preserve, you know, pay homageto the history, all of that.
Yeah, that's.
And that whole area down there,gosh, you know I drive through
it a lot, but yesterday I justhad a chance to ride through it.
(47:11):
I mean I live down inHendersonville but after work we
just got on the e-bikes andjust headed down to that whole
area.
Love seeing River Link's nameeverywhere number one, number
two, just that whole area of howit's just so welcoming and I
mean it feels safe and we knowthat all the things that are
going on are also not only thatwe can enjoy but it's also
(47:32):
protecting the river at the sametime, which is so cool.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
That's right.
Yeah, I mean, those riverfrontparks are green infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
At its finest.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Oh, that's so great.
Well, so looking ahead, then,because we're talking about the
problem, we've talked about somesolutions and some things that
y'all are doing, but what do yousee as future challenges?
Speaker 3 (48:00):
Are there any that y'all foresee in kind of
managing the storm runoff andthings that we can do now to
help prepare for that and headthose things off?
Yeah, you know, I think thechallenges are directly related
to, you know, increaseddevelopment, which means
increased hard, impervioussurfaces, and that's that could
potentially lead to more runoffif we aren't, you know, building
smarter and incorporating moreof this green stormwater
(48:23):
infrastructure to keep therunoff on site.
But then it's also related toclimate change and extreme
weather events.
Green stormwater infrastructurecan help build climate
resilience.
It can help manage theincreased runoff that we could
potentially have from theseextreme rain events, but it can
also help recharge ourgroundwater and make us more
(48:44):
resilient during times ofdrought.
So this region is not onlyexpected to have bigger extreme
rain events, but it's alsoexpected to have more frequent
periods of drought so kind ofboth extremes.
And we're going to have to facethose issues head on and try to
be proactive and build climateresilience into our communities,
(49:07):
and green infrastructure is apart of that climate resilience
into our communities, and greeninfrastructure is a part of that
.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
I love that, so that's a major way that even
listeners can get involved andsupport the work that y'all are
doing.
What are some other ways thatlisteners can really get
involved, like if this is thefirst time they're hearing it?
I know for a lot of ourlisteners this is going to
resonate with them for sure.
But there also may be somepeople that this is starting to
connect some dots for them, andI'm in that category too.
I mean, there's some thingsthat I'm connecting the dots on.
How can people best be informedto be engaged?
Speaker 3 (49:36):
Okay, I can think of some fun ways.
Cool, that's good, and then Ican think of some more practical
ways.
I just recently got out on theWNC snorkel trail.
I don't know if you've heardabout this.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
I'm starting to see it and I'm seeing it on social
media biodiversity.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
That is out of sight, out of mind.
You know, most of the timeyou're on top of the water in a
boat, or you're runningalongside it on the greenway, or
(50:13):
you're driving over a bridgeand the river's underneath you
and you just have no idea ofwhat's going on in the water.
And so the WNC snorkel trailhas identified.
I don't know how many locationsthere are at this point, but
they're kind of spreadthroughout western North
Carolina and you can go to theirwebsite and you can see where
(50:34):
the different snorkel spots are.
All you need is a snorkel mask,you know, and a snorkel tube,
and you go out to theselocations.
There's a kiosk at each one thattalks about here's how you do
it safely, and here are some ofthe species that you're likely
to see at this site.
And then you just get in thewater, and the water, you know
if you can wade in it, then youcan snorkel in it and you just
(50:56):
float downstream, and there aretimes where the waters are kind
of low and you might get up andyou walk a little bit, but then
you float down, and so, anyway,I've been to two sites locally
at this point, but I'm hookedand I'm going to go to all of
them.
So I've been to the SwannanoaRiver site at Veterans Park in
Black Mountain and then I'vebeen to Mills River Park.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
All right.
Speaker 3 (51:16):
So it's a good chance to see what's happening in the
stream and you can also kind ofsee firsthand the differences in
the health of the ecosystem.
I noticed a big differencebetween the Mills River site and
the town of Black Mountain sitebecause the Swannanoa site's
just downstream of the town, soit gets a lot more runoff.
There was a lot more sediment inthe bottom of the stream.
We didn't see as many fish, butwe still saw some really cool
(51:38):
stuff Okay, so that's a fun wayto connect with the river and
kind of see firsthand theamazing biodiversity.
I want to encourage listenersto go to River Link's website
and see our reduced rain runoffour blogs.
We really break it down into, Ithink, easy to understand terms
(51:58):
and examples of the impact ofrunoff on our waterways and then
provide resources for people totake action.
No-transcript and there arelots of different ways people
(52:35):
can plug in and make adifference and feel good about
it.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
Yeah, that's so good.
The work that you're doing isimportant work, it's noble work
and I'm glad that there is agroup of other partnerships that
are around you so you feel likeyou're not having to have the
whole lift, the whole heavy lift, because it is a heavy lift.
But I really am a firm believerthat when you become aware, you
become connected.
When you come connected, youbecome an advocate, and I really
(53:00):
kind of I believe in that andI've seen that on trails, I've
seen that in communities, I'veseen that now on the in this
important work that you're doingto protect the watersheds.
And I think it's just that If Ihad any hope that would come
out of this, from my perspective, it was that awareness would
increase and it would befollowed by engagement.
What would you want to come outof an episode like this?
(53:21):
What would you want listenersto do?
Speaker 3 (53:23):
Do something, even if it's something small.
Be hopeful and do something,even if it's something small.
That's related to what we'vetalked about today and I think
we can collectively have aripple effect pun intended on
the health of the watershed andthe health of our communities,
because it's all interconnected.
Speaker 1 (53:43):
It is, isn't it?
Yeah, it's so interconnectedand that's probably the other
thing.
For me that's a really bigtakeaway is just it's not siloed
.
It's not just this is me, thisis my property, or this is me,
this is where I recreate.
It's all so interdependent uponanother.
Well, this is really good.
I feel like we could talk aboutthis for hours and I know that
we just scratched the surface ofthis.
I do know that, but you have aphenomenal website and people
(54:07):
can go to that website.
Yes, you're welcome.
I have enjoyed it.
It's easy to follow the waythat y'all have written some of
the case studies.
They're easy to follow, theblog is easy to follow and
there's a plethora ofinformation that, if somebody
wants to choose the level of howI can get involved, it's there.
Speaker 3 (54:23):
Absolutely yeah, and I didn't even go into the other
Riverlink programs that we have.
You know we're an accreditedland trust so we can help
conserve properties that in turnhelp protect water quality.
And then we have a reallyrobust environmental youth
education program where we go toschools and after school
programs throughout thewatershed and talk about these
(54:44):
topics in a fun and informativeway, and it's STEM-based
education that help meets theNorth Carolina core requirements
for science, and so teacherslove to have us come in to their
schools and engage the kids inthese topics.
So, yeah, a lot to talk about.
Like you said, we could go.
Speaker 1 (55:02):
We could probably go on for hours, but Well,
hopefully, what this did is atleast give a high level view of
the really important work thatyou're doing number one, number
two, your passion, which isdriving a lot of the work, and I
know that there's a team ofy'all that do this.
But it's nice to put a facewith a name, with somebody who
is kind of part of Riverlink andpart of doing the really
(55:22):
important work there, but thenit's just the awareness piece.
I think that is so important.
You're on Instagram, facebookwe can check you out on your
website, the projects thatyou've talked about with the
Taylor's Wave and some of theseother ones, in particular, the
project that you talked about inHendersonville.
I'm feeling like that'sprobably going to be on my way
back from dinner tonight.
Speaker 3 (55:42):
Yeah do the stormwater stroll?
Speaker 1 (55:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the stormwater stroll, I mean it's
so cool.
But, yeah, I really want tothank you for your work.
I'm really so oftentimesencouraged by people that are
passionate about what they do,passionate about helping people,
passionate about helping ourenvironment, passionate about
protecting these assets that wehave here, which are so
wonderful.
Yeah, and the important workthat y'all are doing is just
keeping that going.
(56:04):
So, thank you all.
Thank you Riverlink, thank youRenee, for the work that you're
doing, and I just appreciate youcoming down and spending some
time and opening up and justsharing with me a little bit of
your heart and your mind andyour will here.
Speaker 3 (56:15):
Yeah well, thanks for having me and hope to see you
on the river sometime, or theGreenway.
Speaker 1 (56:20):
Oh, the Greenway.
That's right.
Yeah, thanks.
So much, renee, thank you.
Thank you for joining us onthis journey through the
revitalization of the FrenchBroad River.
From understanding the impactsof sediment and pollutants to
discovering how green stormwaterinfrastructure mimics nature's
resilience, rene has shown usthe path to a healthier river.
Rene's passion and expertiseinspires all to play a role in
(56:42):
safeguarding our naturalresources.
Whether through education,advocacy or participation in
local initiatives, each of uscan contribute to the ongoing
success of the French BroadRiver's restoration.
Join us in protecting andrevitalizing this really
invaluable community asset.
Together, we can make adifference for generations to
(57:03):
come.
Well, that's going to do it forthis episode.
I hope you enjoyed it.
If you did, please subscribe,rate and leave us a review.
Your feedback helps us tocontinue to bring you stories of
how these mountains and theoutdoors influence and shape our
lives.
Join me on Instagram andFacebook and drop me a line at
mike at explorationlocalcom ifyou ever have a suggestion for a
(57:25):
future episode.
Until we meet again, Iencourage you to wander far but
(57:54):
explore local.
Thank you,
Can we truly transform a once-polluted river
into a thriving community asset?
Join us as we uncover theremarkable journey of the French
Broad River's revitalizationwith Rene Fortner, watershed
Resources Manager at RiverLink.
Rene shares RiverLink'sinspiring history, from
reclaiming degraded riverfrontproperties to creating green
spaces that enrich the community.
(00:20):
We'll learn how stormwaterrunoff has emerged as the
primary threat to the river,overshadowing industrial
pollution, and the innovativestrategies RiverLink employs to
tackle this issue head-on.
We dive deep into thechallenges posed by sediment and
pollutants, revealing theirharmful effects on the French
Broad's diverse ecosystem, andwe discover the groundbreaking
(00:41):
green stormwater infrastructureprojects that mimic nature to
protect and rejuvenate the river.
We also learned about excitingcommunity projects like the
Woodfin Greenway, blueway,taylor's Wave and the Gateway
Park in Asheville's River ArchDistrict.
Renee's passion and dedicationshine through, offering a wealth
of insights and inspiration onhow you and I can get involved
(01:03):
in preserving and revitalizingthis vital watershed.
Tune in and become part of themovement to protect our precious
waterways.
I'll see you on the other side.
You're listening to ExplorationLocal, a podcast designed to
explore and celebrate the peopleand places that make the Blue
(01:24):
Ridge and Southern AppalachianMountains special and unique.
My name is Mike Andrus, thehost of Exploration Local.
Join us on our journey toexplore these mountains and
discover how they fuel thespirit of adventure.
We encourage you to wander far,but explore local, let's go.
My guest today is Renee Fortner.
(01:44):
But explore local, let's go.
My guest today is Renee Fortner.
She is the Watershed ResourcesManager at the local
environmental nonprofitRiverlink.
She is an avid river paddler,home gardener and naturalist and
is continually reminded how theenvironment around us and our
daily lives are affected byaccess to clean and abundant
water.
Renee, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Thanks, mike, I'm really excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
One of the things I love to do right here at the
very outset is give sort of abroad picture of River Link for
people who don't know what isRiver Link and what is the
really, really important workthat you all do.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yeah, river Link, as you mentioned, a local
environmental non-profit.
Our office is in Asheville, downin the River Arts District, but
we work across the eight-countyregion that is the French Broad
River watershed in westernNorth Carolina and we've been
around for a while.
We were founded in the early1980s with this vision to
(02:38):
revitalize the French BroadRiverfront in Asheville.
The river had a long industrialpast and it had been heavily
polluted and neglected.
The local community wasdisconnected from the river and
so Riverlink set out on thistrajectory to clean the river up
(03:01):
, engaged the community membersin that and eventually ended up
purchasing old, derelictproperties along the riverfront
in Asheville and converting them, cleaning them up and
converting them from industryjunkyards, old landfills, into
riverfront parks where everybodycould enjoy the river.
(03:24):
You know, a big driving factorbehind that was this idea that
you know.
If we can foster thatconnection to the river and help
people interact with it andexperience it, then that's going
to lead to this sense ofownership and love for the river
and then that's going to leadto better stewardship of the
river.
(03:45):
And I think we, the community asa whole, and Riverlink has been
very successful in that.
If you're in Asheville, youknow you can go down Amboy Road
and from Carrier Park FrenchBroad River Park, the new Karen
Craig Nolan Park that Riverlinkopened this past year is right
there along the river, all theway down to Gene Webb Park in
(04:08):
the River Arts District.
You know those were all oldderelict properties that are now
very popular for recreation for, you know, visitors and
residents alike.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I did not know that so I didn't know the areas right
along Riverside Drive that youall had something to do with
that as well.
I know the Karen Craig NolanPark.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I know.
So I was just there yesterday.
Oh, yay, yeah, yeah, I justrode all up and down it and love
seeing all the River Link signseverywhere too, and so, yeah,
we sort of did that loop and gota chance to see the new park
there, all the improvementsright across from Wrong Way
Campground and all the beautifulthings that you all did there
too.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
That's right, and maybe you saw the sign and you
read about how it used to be ajunkyard.
I did, I did yes.
And it took about 15 years toclean the soil up there because
it had been contaminated fromthe car crushing operation.
Oh, it was a long process ofletting nature basically do its
thing.
Basically do its thing.
(05:08):
Soil, microbes and nativeplants on that site literally
broke down, the oil and gasmolecules that were in that soil
, contaminating the site, youknow.
And then now it's, you know,safer recreation, and we named
it in honor of our foundingexecutive director, karen Craig
Nolan.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Yeah, and it also serves to connect.
It used to be the missing linkbetween Carrier Park and French
Broad River Park because we hadto keep it fenced off because it
was contaminated and so part ofthe building the park at least
the first phase of it was toconnect that greenway, so now
you don't have to get out ontothat narrow sidewalk along.
(05:44):
Amboy Road.
You can just cruise on throughthe greenway.
That now you don't have to getout onto that narrow sidewalk
along Amboy Road.
You can just cruise on throughthe greenway.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
That's cool.
That's exactly what we did.
We were e-biking.
It was such a good time.
Yeah.
And then did you have anythingto do with sort of that river
left side too, when you leaveFrench Broad Park, going from
there down to New Belgium, orwas that anything with y'all?
Or y'all are on River Wright,on the River Arch District.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah, mostly River Wright.
That was primarily the city ofAsheville.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
And then New Belgium, of course, as a partner and a
landowner along that segment ofthe Greenway.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Cool.
Yeah.
Very cool.
Well, one of the things thatyou focus on in your role with
River Link as the watershedresources manager is stormwater
runoff.
That's a really big thing.
You and I were talking a coupleof weeks ago about just driving
by the French Broad certainsections of it, depending on,
(06:35):
you know, especially after heavyrainfall it sort of turns this
brown, murky color, turbidity, Iguess, increases, so you're not
able to really kind of see andit doesn't seem clear.
And so the first my comment waswell, gosh, I don't know, is it
dirty, does it seem dirty?
And and you really sort ofstarted to open up my eyes to
really what's going on.
(06:56):
And then since then I've justtried to learn as much as I can
and that's what we're going tounpack today.
But I know that's your passionarea and so, at high level, I
love for us to just kind of talkabout stormwater runoff and how
it is the number one threat tothe health of the French Broad
River.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Yeah, absolutely yeah .
I mean, the river is muchcleaner than it used to be.
But protecting and restoringthe river and all the tributary
streams that flow into her?
And restoring the river and allthe tributary streams that flow
into her.
You know it continues today andit will continue.
And yeah, as you mentioned,stormwater runoff is.
You know, it used to beindustrial pollution.
(07:32):
That was the biggest threat tothe river, and now it's
stormwater runoff.
Yeah, it's basically rainwaterthat, rather than soak into the
ground like it would in anatural area, it flows across
hard surfaces like rooftops,parking lots, driveways, and
those hard surfaces don't allowthe rainwater to soak into the
(07:53):
ground.
Instead, it runs across thelandscape.
This, but the storm drains thatyou see along our streets and
in parking lots, those are pipeddirectly into the nearest
stream or the French Broad River, and that water doesn't go to
the wastewater treatment plantin Woodfin where it gets
(08:15):
filtered out.
That water goes directly intothe stream, untreated, and so
you can just picture that watermoving across a parking lot and
the things that it picks up andthen delivers into our streams
and into the French Broad River.
So it's the runoff and what's init that's impacting the river,
(08:36):
but then it's just the sheeramount of water that these hard
surfaces shed Many millions,even billions of gallons of
runoff annually.
We ran a calculation recently.
We looked at all of the rooftopsurface area just in Buncombe
County using GIS and then wetook that number and then we
(09:01):
took the average rainfall in agiven year.
And then we took the averagerainfall in a given year roughly
42 inches of rain in Ashevilleand then we calculated the
gallons of water that's beingshed by rooftops and it was 8
billion gallons of water a year.
That's insane.
And then we looked at, okay,well, how many Olympic swimming
pools would that amount of waterfill up?
(09:22):
And it was something like 450Olympic swimming pools and it
would stretch across the entirestate of North Carolina.
And so that's not to say thatevery rooftop is piping its
runoff into a creek, but many ofthem do, and so that just kind
of highlights how much waterthat is and it's being delivered
(09:43):
to our streams basically all atonce, and so it creates this
real flashy stream hydrograph wecall it.
Where you know, during a rainin our urban streams, you'll see
the water levels rise reallyrapidly because of that incoming
runoff runoff, and then, assoon as the rain stops, the
(10:04):
water recedes really quickly.
So it's very flashy and thatcauses all sorts of issues.
You know definitely makesstream bank erosion worse, and
so, yeah, those in a nutshell,that's stormwater runoff and why
it negatively impacts theFrench Broad River.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah, so I would imagine there are certain areas
that are probably a little bitmore susceptible to the urban
runoff.
Obviously, you've got theheadwater starting, you know,
way up near Rosman and then itsort of creeps its way down and
then, obviously you know, outinto Tennessee or up into
Tennessee.
Are there certain areas thatare worse than others?
Are there certain just I don'tknow if it may be worse is the
right way or just differentcontaminants that are being
(10:47):
introduced into the watershed atcertain places?
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, I've paddled theFrench Broad Paddle Trail from
the headwaters in Rosman toAsheville over a spring break
trip a few years ago with myfamily and you could visibly see
the difference in the clarityof the river as you moved
downstream.
And there was a noticeabledifference in water quality once
(11:14):
you got to Brevard, which wasthe first really big urbanized
area on that stretch of theriver.
Yeah, the clarity went way down.
And so you can visibly see it.
And then we know from waterquality testing that's been done
that water quality degradeswhen you get close to these
urban centers where there are alot of hard or impervious
(11:37):
surfaces that generate morestorm water runoff.
It's not to say that runoffdoesn't occur in rural areas,
you know there's certainly theirown challenges I mean to that
type of area in terms of, youknow, agricultural lands can be
a source of runoff too ifthey're not managed well.
(11:59):
But yeah, what happens on theland affects what's happening in
the water.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
All right.
So we understand what theproblem is.
We understand that rain runoffis a real thing.
We understand that the impactthat these heavy rains make,
sometimes especially in theurban areas, but, as you said,
even in some of the other areasof farmlands they have their own
set of unique challenges aswell.
Let's talk a little bit aboutjust this area and its increase
(12:28):
in population, because in the 11years I've lived here it's
increased significantly.
Downtown, here, you know allover.
But how is the increase in thepopulation and the economic
development in Western NorthCarolina affecting this rain
runoff, affecting all that we'retalking about?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Well, you know, with development comes more hard or
impervious surfaces that don'tallow the rainwater to soak into
the ground.
We need economic development.
We need more housing.
You know we have a shortage inhousing stock here and that's
driving up the cost of housingin housing stock here and that's
(13:22):
driving up the cost of housing,so which in this region we're
actually a climate refuge forfolks that are moving from other
parts of the country, likeCalifornia and South Florida.
But you know we experience ourown impacts from climate change,
extreme weather events beingone of them, and you know,
significantly heavier, moreintense rain events, and so
(13:46):
that's also going to exacerbatethe runoff issue.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
You know, one thing I'm realizing that we really
haven't talked about is what arethose negative impacts?
Like we talked about the waterchanging and we talked about
some of the contaminants andthings that get in the river,
but it really does affect it.
And yesterday when I was riding, I met a gentleman who gosh, I
(14:11):
think he said he's lived herefor like 30 years and we rode
basically at the end of thatgreenway downtown and we were
right there at Hominy Creek andhe was talking about this sand
and dredge area that it used tobe.
And then when I looked at itlast night on Google Earth, I
was like, yeah, this is wherethey were having to dredge and a
lot of the silt and everythingthat gets in.
But this really does affect themarine life, it affects the
biodiversity, it affects a lotof things, and that's the part
(14:34):
that I think we need to connectto is really kind of what's
happening, because we see thewater changing colors or the
river changing colors, we seeall the rain, we see it running
down our streets and in guttersand so forth, but what's really
happening in the river?
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Yeah, yeah, you know, the French Broad River
watershed is one of the mostbiodiverse freshwater systems in
North America.
So when you think about aquaticbiodiversity, you usually think
about tropical life in oceansright, you know, reefs and all
the fish that live in and amongcoral reefs, but in terms of
(15:08):
freshwater, so, like riversystems, the French Broad River
watershed is part of theTennessee River Basin and it
just happens to have really highrates of biodiversity in terms
of freshwater fish, freshwatermussels, among other animals,
and so, yeah, it's a reallyspecial place.
(15:30):
But the biodiversity in theFrench Broad River has suffered
over the years, first from theindustrial pollution that was
being piped into the river andnow from the stormwater runoff.
And stormwater affects life inthe river in a number of ways
Sediment we talk about how muddythe river looks after a rain
(15:55):
and that's because of thesediment that is getting into
the river.
And you know we think ofsediment.
It's natural, it's a naturallyoccurring thing and rivers
naturally have sediment in them.
But there is a point at whichthere's too much sediment and it
negatively impacts what'sliving in the river.
And so that sediment is comingfrom the stormwater runoff and
(16:18):
it's originating fromconstruction sites where you
have exposed soil, constructionsites.
Where you have, you know,exposed soil, it's coming from
stream bank erosion and that'sall made worse by stormwater
runoff.
And then stormwater runoff isthe carrier of the sediment that
brings it to the river.
But sediment destroys aquatichabitat.
(16:40):
It covers the rocks in thebottom of the river and fish
rely on those rocks for layingtheir eggs.
So it disrupts the fish abilityto breed in the river.
It clogs their gills, it canaffect their immune system and
make them more susceptible toparasites and disease, to
(17:09):
parasites and disease.
Freshwater mussels are filterfeeders and so they siphon water
and pull out small particlesthat they feed on from that
water.
And when the water's laden withsediment they're unable to feed
.
And that's a big reason why ourfreshwater mussel populations
are suffering in the FrenchBroad River.
And then sediment also.
It poses a human health concernin that sediment can bind to
(17:34):
other pollutants like heavymetals, fecal coliform bacteria,
and then it can transport thosepollutants throughout the
watershed can transport thosepollutants throughout the
watershed.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Is there any data or anything that kind of tracks the
improvement or is it gettingworse in terms of the marine
life and the biodiversity?
Is that something that you all,I mean?
I know, like there's the FrenchBroad River Keepers, for
example, and they're constantlymeasuring and so that's kind of
seeing what the result is.
But is there any data that justkind of says is it cleaning up,
is it getting better?
Is it getting better, is itgetting worse?
(18:06):
Where are we today?
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Yeah, that's a good question.
I'm not aware of any long-termdata sets out there tracking the
water quality in the FrenchBroad River.
There is data on the sediment,the turbidity of the river.
There's, as you mentioned, theRiver Keepers Tracking fecal
(18:28):
coliform bacteria.
There's another organization inBlack Mountain called the
Environmental Quality Institutethat does water quality sampling
really much throughout westernNorth Carolina on different
tributary streams of the FrenchBroad River, and it can vary
from year to year based on howmuch rainfall we've had.
So if we're in a relatively dryyear, maybe even a drought
(18:53):
period, water quality is goingto be pretty darn good because
the river's not receiving thatstormwater runoff and so I think
it can be a difficult thing totrack long term.
But we do have some promisingsort of data coming from Fish
and Wildlife Service.
So they track endangeredspecies and they go out and they
(19:13):
do freshwater mussel surveys,fish surveys, looking and
tracking populations ofendangered fish and mussels, and
they have seen some of thefreshwater mussels in particular
kind of making a comeback inthe French Broad River, and so
that's really encouraging, Ithink.
But I think, as you mentionedearlier, as development
(19:35):
continues to increase, that wecan't kind of let our guard down
and be like, okay, it's allgood Things are coming back,
because there's certainly thepotential to backslide and to
lose some of the progress thatwe've made.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
What are some other things that are kind of being
done to help stop it, mitigateit, if it's awareness to
contractors or just the workthat y'all are doing?
Speaker 3 (20:00):
So because stormwater runoff is a major source of
pollution for our waterways, itis regulated by the federal
government through the CleanWater Act.
So there are regulations arounddevelopment and a certain size
development might trigger therequirement to manage the
stormwater and keep more of iton site.
(20:22):
Stormwater and keep more of iton site.
And so you know we have localordinances.
Buncombe County, hendersonCounty, city of Asheville, all
have their own uniquedevelopment ordinance that
requires certain sizedevelopments to manage their
stormwater runoff.
But for the most part singlefamily homes don't trigger any
requirement to treat yourstormwater runoff, it's just
(20:45):
voluntary.
And so there's local governmentplays a role in that and you
know, I think from Riverlink'sperspective, we would certainly
love for those requirements toapply to sort of a broader scope
of businesses and, you know,residences.
But there are some incentivesout there cost share programs
(21:09):
that can help encourage peopleto voluntarily, businesses to
voluntarily do more to managetheir stormwater runoff.
There's grant funding that'savailable, that nonprofit
organizations like Riverlinkhave access to, grant funds that
are from state and federalgovernment that can help promote
(21:31):
and kind of offset the cost ofmanaging stormwater runoff on
commercial sites.
We actually have a reallyexciting project that's about to
go under construction.
It's a collaboration withRiverlink and AB Tech Community
College in Asheville.
Oh cool.
And we got funding through theEPA's 319 grant program to help
(21:53):
AB Tech replace this largeparking lot that they don't use
and it generates a lot ofstormwater runoff that then gets
piped directly into the smallstream on their campus, which
then feeds into the French BroadRiver, and so we're going to
work with them to replace thisparking lot with a constructed
(22:13):
stormwater wetland and it'sgoing to be a really beautiful
amenity for the campus.
It's going to have trails thatgo around it and it's going to
be planted with native plantsand trees and there's going to
be educational signage and it'salso going to serve as an
outdoor classroom for.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
AB Tech students.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
They're going to be collecting long-term data on the
impact of that wetland and thebenefits that it's going to
provide to Haith Branch and theFrench Broad River.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Oh, that's great.
Let's stay with that stream ofthought, because now we're
talking about solutions andwe're talking about things that
are reducing or mitigating, ifyou will, the runoff.
What are some of the otherthings that you've done?
What are some of the otherprojects that you've been
directly involved with or thatyou all are really sort of
pushing to really fight this?
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Yeah, I don't think I've used this term yet, but I
want to introduce this termgreen stormwater infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Oh, I like it.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
And that is really what we're preaching, that we
need more of.
So historically we've managedour stormwater runoff with what
we call gray infrastructure, sothat series of gutters and
downspouts and storm drains andoutfalls.
And the goal of the grayinfrastructure, the way it is
designed to function, it justmoves water off-site as quickly
(23:29):
as possible.
And the alternative to that issomething that we call green
stormwater infrastructure.
And these, the goal of greenstormwater infrastructure, is to
kind of mimic nature beforedevelopment occurred and you
keep the runoff on site wheneverpossible and you give it an
opportunity to soak into theground, where soil microbes and
(23:52):
the plant roots can filterpollutants out of the water.
They take up some of that waterand then what doesn't get
soaked up by the plants is goesinto the groundwater table and
actually recharges ourgroundwater.
And so green stormwaterinfrastructure is really the
path forward.
(24:12):
And there are quite a fewreally great examples of green
infrastructure, you know, in ourcommunity the town of
Hendersonville comes to mind.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Okay.
So they actually have done somegreen infrastructure there.
They have large cisterns thatharvest the roof runoff from
maybe a facilities managementbuilding where they have mowers
and trucks stored there, and sothey're harvesting the roof
runoff, keeping it on site andthen they're using that to
(24:44):
actually wash their equipment onthat site.
There's also some rain gardensthere that capture runoff from a
parking lot and soak it intothe ground and keeping it out of
the creek that flows throughthe park.
So that's a really greatexample and they actually have
what they call a stormwater walkwith some educational signage
and you can walk through thepark and you can read about the
(25:06):
different green infrastructurefeatures there.
Another one Town of BlackMountain we just partnered with
them last year.
They have Lake Tomahawk Parkreally beautiful lake.
The backdrop is, you know, themountains out there the.
Black Mountains.
It's really lovely Walk-intrails.
A lot of ducks hang out in thelake.
(25:26):
They had a parking lot that wasjust discharging stormwater
runoff directly into the lake,and they have sedimentation
issues in the lake.
They have to dredge itperiodically, and so we worked
with them to construct what'scalled a bioswell, and it's this
feature between the parking lotand the lake, and now the
(25:47):
runoff goes into this depressedarea that's planted with native
plants and it gets filteredthere and it's keeping it out of
Lake Tomahawk, and so it'sbecome a beautiful amenity for
the park, but then it's alsohelping protect the lake.
That's so cool the lake.
(26:09):
That's so cool.
And then another project thatcomes to mind that's very dear
to my heart is the SouthsideCommunity Stormwater Project and
this was a Riverlinkpartnership with the Asheville
Housing Authority and weaddressed runoff in this public
housing community in theSouthside neighborhood of
Asheville.
Residents were being negativelyimpacted by this runoff that
was getting onto a residentialparking lot and it was so just
(26:32):
constant and frequent that theparking lot was covered in this
really slippery algae and thenin the wintertime the water
would freeze.
And so it made slippery, unsafeconditions for people trying to
get to their cars, and so wedesigned and installed a whole
series of green infrastructurefeatures that now collects the
(26:57):
roof runoff and the parking lotrunoff and soaks it into the
ground.
So there's a series of raingardens, there's this feature
excuse me, that looks like anatural stream bed that goes
down slope.
That slows the stormwater down,gives it a chance to soak into
the ground, and then there's astormwater wetland with a trail
(27:17):
around it.
And so you know, in addition tothe water quality benefits of
green infrastructure, there'smany co-benefits to it as well.
They can be amenities for acommunity or for a residential
property.
They're, you know, they can bevery attractive landscape
features, but they can also helpprovide recreation
(27:38):
opportunities.
So you know, as I've mentioned,walking trails a couple of
times, associated with theseprojects, and they can help
provide, especially in our urbanareas.
You know you're removing hardsurfaces and you're replacing
them with natural vegetation,and that can help with the urban
heat island effect, and so youknow you're building climate
(28:00):
resiliency at the same time asyou know you're protecting water
quality.
So, if you can't tell, I'm a bigfan of green infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you know it's interestingbecause it's been several years
.
But a good friend of mine wasthe facilities director at the
University of Tennessee, Memphis, and this is years ago.
But even back then he was avery big proponent of these
types of catching.
You know catch areas Back thenI don't know if he had a name
for it, but it was like thiscatch basin and I remember
(28:29):
looking at him going the firsttime and thinking well, it looks
so beautifully landscaped.
And then all of a sudden it gotflooded and I'm like, is this
going to kill it?
And you're like, no, mike, thisis by design and this is
exactly why we do this.
And it's so cool to sort ofhave this come full circle
almost 20 plus years later andto see the work that you all are
doing and see some of theexamples and hear some of the
examples that you're talkingabout right now.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Yeah, yeah, that's so good.
I think some people refer to itas low impact development and I
think it can be under thatumbrella of low impact
development and I think the termgreen stormwater infrastructure
is kind of new over the pastfew years, but it's been around
for a while, okay For sure.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
So let's turn our focus to homeowners on the
residential side and maybe someof the things that they can do,
because those were like big,really important projects
affecting a community.
But what about the individualhomeowners?
Because there are some thingsthat we can do.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Yeah, riverlink has a program called Water Rich and
you can access it through ourwebsite, but it is focused just
on residential stormwatermanagement.
And I would say you know, ifyou're a property owner, you
start by observing your site,walking around during a rain
event, look at where the water'sgoing, where do your downspouts
(29:45):
drain to, and look foropportunities.
If that water is leaving yoursite, look for opportunities to
keep it on site where it cansoak into the ground, and the
good news is that there are alot of opportunities and lots of
options for how you could dothat.
So we promote in our Water RichGuide things like rain gardens.
We promote in our Water RichGuide things like rain gardens.
(30:06):
So these are just smallbowl-shaped landscaped areas
that typically you're routing aroof downspout into it.
And because it's likebowl-shaped, it's filled with
native plants that are beautiful.
And because it's bowl-shaped,it's designed to hold water for
a short period of time and giveit a chance to soak into the
(30:28):
ground.
And there are native plantsthat are adapted to having their
roots wet for a period of timeand then dry for a period of
time.
And in our Water Rich Guidethere's a whole list of trees,
shrubs, perennials that willthrive in that environment.
(30:49):
Other things that you could dosay, you're a gardener or you
have a lot of potted plants thatneed watering.
Maybe you want to install arain barrel and route a
downspout into a rain barrel anduse that rainwater to water
your plants.
Very cool.
(31:13):
If you have municipal water,then you're going to be saving
on your water.
You're Very cool aboutdischarges onto my driveway and
then that's going into thestreet and that's going to go
into the storm drain down there.
Maybe I just put an extender onthe downspout and I reroute it
(31:34):
to the lawn.
Maybe you have a lawn areawhere you could let that water
soak into the ground instead, oran existing landscape bed, and
so we call that disconnectingyour downspout.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
And that's really the most basic, inexpensive thing
that you could do as a homeowner, just trying to make sure that
it's not running off on hardsurfaces where it can run away.
We want it to stay and use thebenefit of it.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
That's right, and sometimes our downspouts are
buried below ground and ifthere's a stream in your
backyard and you go back thereand look, you might see that the
contractor piped your downspoutinto the stream and that's
perfectly legal, but certainlynot desirable, because you're
(32:19):
contributing to, you know, thatlarge volume of water that's
getting into our streams duringrain events, and so that's an
opportunity there to bring thewater back closer and keep it
out of the stream.
And you certainly you knowthere's certain guidelines you
want to be mindful of.
You don't want to create adrainage issue in your basement
(32:42):
or your crawl space, and so youcan look at our water rich guide
and you can see some thingsthat you want to keep in mind,
like you want to make sure yourdownspout is discharging you
know, at least five feet awayfrom the foundation of your home
and you want to make sure thatthe area drains within a certain
period of time, and but there'ssome simple steps you can go
through to make sure that yoursite's going to be appropriate
(33:04):
for these types of measuresgoing to be appropriate for
these types of measures.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
So there's probably some partnerships that are out
there that they're notnecessarily direct work that
y'all are doing, but then youhave some partnerships that are
out there too.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Absolutely.
I mean, RiverLink is not theonly organization working to
protect the health of the riverand protect water quality in the
French Broad River watershed.
There's Mountain True and theRiverkeeper Program Conserving
Carolina and Hendersonville.
They're doing a lot of workalong the French Broad River as
it flows through Transylvaniaand Henderson County.
(33:35):
And then you have your localgovernments, who, many of them,
have stormwater programs.
They own and manage the grayinfrastructure that is designed
to keep our streets fromflooding, and so they have, you
know, permits to dischargestormwater into local streams,
(33:57):
the impacts of their stormwaterrunoff on our local waterways.
Part of having a stormwaterdischarge permit is providing,
(34:27):
you know, public education,raising awareness about the
impacts of this consortium oflocal government, business,
nonprofits that all have a stakeor work in some capacity on the
French Broad River.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
So what you're really describing is this larger
network and partnership of theseorganizations and groups.
As you say, you're not the onlyone that's out there looking
after it, it's this whole entireFrench Broad partnership.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
So we talked about some of the nonprofits and some
of the other groups that arepart of it.
But how do we get localgovernments and policymakers to
really kind of get behind thisin any way if it's just creating
policy or support or awarenessor whatever it may be?
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Absolutely.
That's a great question.
It's going to take all of usworking together to tackle this
issue.
So local governments developthe local stormwater ordinance
for their community, and thatstormwater ordinance sort of
dictates how stormwater ismanaged when a development
(35:28):
occurs, for example.
So if the development isincreasing the area of hard or
impervious surface, then thatmight trigger a requirement for
them to install some greeninfrastructure to reduce the
amount of runoff that they'regoing to generate.
And so, you know, we wouldcertainly love to see, as I
mentioned earlier, thatordinance to be more restrictive
(35:51):
and more expansive in terms ofwho is required to treat their
stormwater runoff.
But in the state of NorthCarolina, you know, we have kind
of a unique legal structure inthat the state legislature has
the ability to limit localgovernment's ability to create a
more strict ordinance, and so,as it stands currently, local
(36:14):
governments cannot make theirstormwater ordinance any more
restrictive than what the stateof North Carolina has said, and
so, in order for that to change,we would have to, you know,
elect different officials to thestate legislature, people who
are, you know, want toprioritize water quality, and
stormwater runoff is a hugecomponent of that.
(36:37):
And so there's some politicsthere, as there are with most
things to provide incentives.
So if you can't legislate it,then perhaps you can incentivize
it.
I'm a big proponent ofincentives, and so these would
be things like cost shareprograms.
(36:57):
The city of Raleigh hassomething called rainwater
rewards and I think that couldserve as a good model for some
of our local governments, wherethe local government takes a
certain amount of maybe it'stheir stormwater fee money and
they provide a cost share wherethey pay, you know, perhaps 50
percent of the cost of a raingarden installation for a
(37:20):
resident or rain barrels.
Incentives for developers couldbe perhaps a reduced stormwater
fee, maybe some a reduction inthe permit fees.
You know there's a variety ofways that other local
governments have found toincentivize more green
stormwater infrastructure intheir communities.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
So you all are obviously doing great work and
we've talked about thepartnerships that are doing
great work as well but I have tobelieve there's got to be some
inspiring stories out there fromcommunity members where they
really are taking action to helpprotect our waterways, and I'm
wondering, if that's true, ifyou might be able to share a few
of those stories with us.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Sure, I would encourage listeners to also
check out our website and thispublic service campaign that we
have going on right now.
It's called Reduce Rain Runoff.
We have, on that campaign webpage, we have a series that
we're calling the StormwaterDiaries, and these are stories
inspirational stories of people,business owners and residents
(38:23):
in the watershed that have takenaction to manage their runoff,
and so one of those stories,sunny Point Cafe.
It's a small business in WestAsheville.
They were having some floodingissues on their parking lot and
it was coming from the roof ofthe restaurant, and so they
found a creative solution toaddressing the flooding, but
(38:45):
also found an opportunity toharvest their roof runoff, and
so they've installed somerainwater cisterns and these are
tall metal tanks that are nowcapturing the roof runoff which
was flowing onto their parkinglot and causing problems, and
they're using that rainwater towater their kitchen garden.
They have a beautiful kitchengarden behind the restaurant
(39:07):
where they use the plants fromthat.
They cook them in the kitchen,and so I think that's a really
inspirational story for a smallbusiness and also highlights how
you know the co-benefits ofthese practices addressing
flooding issues, protectingwater quality, saving on their
water bill by using the freerainwater to water their kitchen
(39:29):
garden.
And then we have severalhighlights of residents that we
know that have done proactivethings on their property.
One person in particular I canthink of this gentleman named
Ben Harper and he lives neardowntown Asheville and he lives
kind of on a slope but near thebottom of the slope.
(39:53):
So he was getting a lot ofrunoff from neighboring
properties and from the streetand he has addressed the runoff
issues coming off site.
But then he's also is nowcollecting all of his roof
runoff and keeping it on his ownproperty because he's not at
the very bottom of the hill.
He has some neighbors below himand his runoff was also
impacting them, and so he'sinstalled some rain barrels.
(40:17):
He's built what's calledbioswells on his property.
These are kind of like raingardens but they're long and
narrow and almost like terraces,so a series of these swales and
berms, because his propertysloped and he's now routing some
of his roof runoff into those.
They're planted with edibleplants.
(40:39):
So strawberries?
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Oh, no way.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Mint and blueberries that are planted in and around
the bioswells, so you can manageyour runoff and enjoy the
fruits of your labor in theprocess.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Pun intended.
Yes, right, oh, those are greatstories.
And then I have to believe thatthere are other big projects
that y'all are working on aswell, and I love to kind of,
maybe kind of talk a little bitabout that, because you have the
current projects that you've,or the projects that you've done
, the current projects, and thenon your website you also have
some really, really cool stuff.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
That's that's coming down the pike too, and I wonder
if you can kind of give us alittle preview there too yes,
you know, in addition to thisongoing sort of water quality,
watershed health work that we doat River Link, we still
continue building parks,riverfront parks, we're still
continuing to introduce people,connect them to the river.
(41:37):
And so a couple excitingprojects that were involved in.
Just last week we were part ofthe groundbreaking ceremony on
the Woodfin Green Way Blue Wayproject.
So this is a really ambitiousinitiative that the small town
of Woodfin has taken on.
(41:57):
A few years ago their residentsvoted to pass a bond referendum
that would fund in large partthis project that will create
five miles of new greenway alongthe French Broad River,
connecting Woodfin Residence tothe riverfront, expanding
Riverside Park and building anew park called Silver Line Park
(42:18):
, which opened last year.
But on Friday we had thegroundbreaking ceremony on
what's going to be the expandedRiverside Park and an in-river
whitewater wave feature that isgoing to be constructed.
It's going to be called Taylor'sWave and that's in honor of
this community member who'sreally been the driving force
(42:40):
behind the project, mr Mark Hunt, his son, taylor.
The wave is being named in hishonor and it's going to be a
world-class feature that's goingto attract people from all over
and local boaters are going toenjoy it, but it's going to be a
fun play wave.
Yeah, so that's goingconstruction starting on the
(43:00):
wave this summer and should becomplete by early 2025.
And, for those who areinterested in surfing the wave,
it's designed such that you knowtubers and other boaters can
easily bypass it.
But it's going to be anincredible amenity, economic
driver for the town of Woodfinand it's going to be a really
(43:22):
great feature for local boaters.
Incredible, you don't have todrive 30 minutes to find, you
know, a whitewater feature likethis.
There's going to be one rightin town.
I love that not getting all ofthe funding partners on this
(43:47):
project.
You know, certainly privatedonations.
And, yeah, Riverside Park andthe Greenway is being designed
by Equinox Environmental.
Baker Grading is the contractorthat's going to build the wave,
and there are other partnersthat I'm not remembering, but
Equinox Environmental.
They're a local Asheville firmand they have been involved in a
(44:09):
lot of public park projects.
That's cool.
Very talented and prolificlandscape architecture firm that
has a real focus onenvironmental stewardship.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Love that.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
They designed New Belgium's campus.
I don't know if you've been toNew Belgium Brewery.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Just drove by it last night.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Right on the French Broad.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:30):
But knowing what you know now, the next time you go
there to have a beer, I want youto keep an eye out for all of
the green infrastructure ontheir campus.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, there's a lot.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
A lot.
They went above and beyond whatwas required of them by the
stormwater ordinance and theycapture and treat all of the
runoff there.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
That's amazing From their campus.
Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
Yeah, but then also River Link just got funding to
build another riverfront park.
That's down in the River ArtsDistrict but it's in an area
that currently doesn't have anypublic green space.
So there's Pearson Bridge onRiverside Drive that connects
the Richmond Hill community toRiverside Drive and there's a
(45:13):
small parcel there beside thebridge that Riverlink owns.
It was donated several yearsago by the Stanback family which
owns Ohm Sanctuary on the otherside of the river.
It's going to become GatewayPark and it's going to be the
first public green space on thatsection of Riverside Drive.
And in the near future the cityof Asheville's Wilma Dykeman
(45:37):
Greenway will be coming throughthere.
The I-26 connector project isgoing to be bringing bike lanes
to that section of RiversideDrive.
(46:06):
Wow, the passive recreation onthe river.
It's actually fun fact.
It's the historical location ofRiverside Park, which was
Asheville's first Riverside Park, was destroyed during the 1916
flood and it was never rebuilt.
Wow, a rebirth of that originalpark.
(46:28):
And we're going to have apavilion at the park that is
designed based off of thecarousel that was there at the
original Riverside Park.
So we're going to pay homage tothe Riverside Park of the past.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
That is so cool.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
Yeah, so a lot of really exciting things happening
along the river and throughoutthe watershed.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
Oh, I love that.
I just love I mean I really donot just because you're here,
but I just love hearing oforganizations and their stories
and how everybody is sort oflooking to improve, protect,
preserve, you know, pay homageto the history, all of that.
Yeah, that's.
And that whole area down there,gosh, you know I drive through
it a lot, but yesterday I justhad a chance to ride through it.
(47:11):
I mean I live down inHendersonville but after work we
just got on the e-bikes andjust headed down to that whole
area.
Love seeing River Link's nameeverywhere number one, number
two, just that whole area of howit's just so welcoming and I
mean it feels safe and we knowthat all the things that are
going on are also not only thatwe can enjoy but it's also
(47:32):
protecting the river at the sametime, which is so cool.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
That's right.
Yeah, I mean, those riverfrontparks are green infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
At its finest.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Oh, that's so great.
Well, so looking ahead, then,because we're talking about the
problem, we've talked about somesolutions and some things that
y'all are doing, but what do yousee as future challenges?
Speaker 3 (48:00):
Are there any that y'all foresee in kind of
managing the storm runoff andthings that we can do now to
help prepare for that and headthose things off?
Yeah, you know, I think thechallenges are directly related
to, you know, increaseddevelopment, which means
increased hard, impervioussurfaces, and that's that could
potentially lead to more runoffif we aren't, you know, building
smarter and incorporating moreof this green stormwater
(48:23):
infrastructure to keep therunoff on site.
But then it's also related toclimate change and extreme
weather events.
Green stormwater infrastructurecan help build climate
resilience.
It can help manage theincreased runoff that we could
potentially have from theseextreme rain events, but it can
also help recharge ourgroundwater and make us more
(48:44):
resilient during times ofdrought.
So this region is not onlyexpected to have bigger extreme
rain events, but it's alsoexpected to have more frequent
periods of drought so kind ofboth extremes.
And we're going to have to facethose issues head on and try to
be proactive and build climateresilience into our communities,
(49:07):
and green infrastructure is apart of that climate resilience
into our communities, and greeninfrastructure is a part of that
.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
I love that, so that's a major way that even
listeners can get involved andsupport the work that y'all are
doing.
What are some other ways thatlisteners can really get
involved, like if this is thefirst time they're hearing it?
I know for a lot of ourlisteners this is going to
resonate with them for sure.
But there also may be somepeople that this is starting to
connect some dots for them, andI'm in that category too.
I mean, there's some thingsthat I'm connecting the dots on.
How can people best be informedto be engaged?
Speaker 3 (49:36):
Okay, I can think of some fun ways.
Cool, that's good, and then Ican think of some more practical
ways.
I just recently got out on theWNC snorkel trail.
I don't know if you've heardabout this.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
I'm starting to see it and I'm seeing it on social
media biodiversity.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
That is out of sight, out of mind.
You know, most of the timeyou're on top of the water in a
boat, or you're runningalongside it on the greenway, or
(50:13):
you're driving over a bridgeand the river's underneath you
and you just have no idea ofwhat's going on in the water.
And so the WNC snorkel trailhas identified.
I don't know how many locationsthere are at this point, but
they're kind of spreadthroughout western North
Carolina and you can go to theirwebsite and you can see where
(50:34):
the different snorkel spots are.
All you need is a snorkel mask,you know, and a snorkel tube,
and you go out to theselocations.
There's a kiosk at each one thattalks about here's how you do
it safely, and here are some ofthe species that you're likely
to see at this site.
And then you just get in thewater, and the water, you know
if you can wade in it, then youcan snorkel in it and you just
(50:56):
float downstream, and there aretimes where the waters are kind
of low and you might get up andyou walk a little bit, but then
you float down, and so, anyway,I've been to two sites locally
at this point, but I'm hookedand I'm going to go to all of
them.
So I've been to the SwannanoaRiver site at Veterans Park in
Black Mountain and then I'vebeen to Mills River Park.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
All right.
Speaker 3 (51:16):
So it's a good chance to see what's happening in the
stream and you can also kind ofsee firsthand the differences in
the health of the ecosystem.
I noticed a big differencebetween the Mills River site and
the town of Black Mountain sitebecause the Swannanoa site's
just downstream of the town, soit gets a lot more runoff.
There was a lot more sediment inthe bottom of the stream.
We didn't see as many fish, butwe still saw some really cool
(51:38):
stuff Okay, so that's a fun wayto connect with the river and
kind of see firsthand theamazing biodiversity.
I want to encourage listenersto go to River Link's website
and see our reduced rain runoffour blogs.
We really break it down into, Ithink, easy to understand terms
(51:58):
and examples of the impact ofrunoff on our waterways and then
provide resources for people totake action.
No-transcript and there arelots of different ways people
(52:35):
can plug in and make adifference and feel good about
it.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
Yeah, that's so good.
The work that you're doing isimportant work, it's noble work
and I'm glad that there is agroup of other partnerships that
are around you so you feel likeyou're not having to have the
whole lift, the whole heavy lift, because it is a heavy lift.
But I really am a firm believerthat when you become aware, you
become connected.
When you come connected, youbecome an advocate, and I really
(53:00):
kind of I believe in that andI've seen that on trails, I've
seen that in communities, I'veseen that now on the in this
important work that you're doingto protect the watersheds.
And I think it's just that If Ihad any hope that would come
out of this, from my perspective, it was that awareness would
increase and it would befollowed by engagement.
What would you want to come outof an episode like this?
(53:21):
What would you want listenersto do?
Speaker 3 (53:23):
Do something, even if it's something small.
Be hopeful and do something,even if it's something small.
That's related to what we'vetalked about today and I think
we can collectively have aripple effect pun intended on
the health of the watershed andthe health of our communities,
because it's all interconnected.
Speaker 1 (53:43):
It is, isn't it?
Yeah, it's so interconnectedand that's probably the other
thing.
For me that's a really bigtakeaway is just it's not siloed
.
It's not just this is me, thisis my property, or this is me,
this is where I recreate.
It's all so interdependent uponanother.
Well, this is really good.
I feel like we could talk aboutthis for hours and I know that
we just scratched the surface ofthis.
I do know that, but you have aphenomenal website and people
(54:07):
can go to that website.
Yes, you're welcome.
I have enjoyed it.
It's easy to follow the waythat y'all have written some of
the case studies.
They're easy to follow, theblog is easy to follow and
there's a plethora ofinformation that, if somebody
wants to choose the level of howI can get involved, it's there.
Speaker 3 (54:23):
Absolutely yeah, and I didn't even go into the other
Riverlink programs that we have.
You know we're an accreditedland trust so we can help
conserve properties that in turnhelp protect water quality.
And then we have a reallyrobust environmental youth
education program where we go toschools and after school
programs throughout thewatershed and talk about these
(54:44):
topics in a fun and informativeway, and it's STEM-based
education that help meets theNorth Carolina core requirements
for science, and so teacherslove to have us come in to their
schools and engage the kids inthese topics.
So, yeah, a lot to talk about.
Like you said, we could go.
Speaker 1 (55:02):
We could probably go on for hours, but Well,
hopefully, what this did is atleast give a high level view of
the really important work thatyou're doing number one, number
two, your passion, which isdriving a lot of the work, and I
know that there's a team ofy'all that do this.
But it's nice to put a facewith a name, with somebody who
is kind of part of Riverlink andpart of doing the really
(55:22):
important work there, but thenit's just the awareness piece.
I think that is so important.
You're on Instagram, facebookwe can check you out on your
website, the projects thatyou've talked about with the
Taylor's Wave and some of theseother ones, in particular, the
project that you talked about inHendersonville.
I'm feeling like that'sprobably going to be on my way
back from dinner tonight.
Speaker 3 (55:42):
Yeah do the stormwater stroll?
Speaker 1 (55:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the stormwater stroll, I mean it's
so cool.
But, yeah, I really want tothank you for your work.
I'm really so oftentimesencouraged by people that are
passionate about what they do,passionate about helping people,
passionate about helping ourenvironment, passionate about
protecting these assets that wehave here, which are so
wonderful.
Yeah, and the important workthat y'all are doing is just
keeping that going.
(56:04):
So, thank you all.
Thank you Riverlink, thank youRenee, for the work that you're
doing, and I just appreciate youcoming down and spending some
time and opening up and justsharing with me a little bit of
your heart and your mind andyour will here.
Speaker 3 (56:15):
Yeah well, thanks for having me and hope to see you
on the river sometime, or theGreenway.
Speaker 1 (56:20):
Oh, the Greenway.
That's right.
Yeah, thanks.
So much, renee, thank you.
Thank you for joining us onthis journey through the
revitalization of the FrenchBroad River.
From understanding the impactsof sediment and pollutants to
discovering how green stormwaterinfrastructure mimics nature's
resilience, rene has shown usthe path to a healthier river.
Rene's passion and expertiseinspires all to play a role in
(56:42):
safeguarding our naturalresources.
Whether through education,advocacy or participation in
local initiatives, each of uscan contribute to the ongoing
success of the French BroadRiver's restoration.
Join us in protecting andrevitalizing this really
invaluable community asset.
Together, we can make adifference for generations to
(57:03):
come.
Well, that's going to do it forthis episode.
I hope you enjoyed it.
If you did, please subscribe,rate and leave us a review.
Your feedback helps us tocontinue to bring you stories of
how these mountains and theoutdoors influence and shape our
lives.
Join me on Instagram andFacebook and drop me a line at
mike at explorationlocalcom ifyou ever have a suggestion for a
(57:25):
future episode.
Until we meet again, Iencourage you to wander far but
(57:54):
explore local.
Thank you,
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