Venturing Through the French Broad Paddle Trail with MountainTrue's Jack Henderson

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The French Broad is home to more than 40 access
points and 20 riversidecampsites managed by federal,
state and local governments, aswell as non-profits, businesses
and volunteers.
In this episode, I sit downwith Jack Henderson from
Mountain True and we talk indepth about the French Broad
Paddle Trail, from the tranquilbanks of Rosman to the distant
shores of Douglas Lake,tennessee.
We unveil the geographical taleof the French Broad River, lake

(00:25):
Tennessee.
We unveil the geographical taleof the French Broad River.
But our adventure doesn't endwith geography.
We delve into the heart ofconservation, where
collaboration is truly the key.
From the efforts of the FrenchBroad Riverkeeper Program to the
tireless work of local partners, we'll uncover the passion
driving the stewardship of thisnatural wonder.
And speaking of passion, getready to hear about the upcoming
enhancements to river accesspoints and camping opportunities

(00:46):
that await eager outdoorenthusiasts.
With the combined efforts oflocal outfitters, federal
agencies and non-profits, theFrench Broad isn't just a
destination.
It's a community-drivenexperience like no other.
So grab your paddle, open yourheart and join us as we push off
to explore the French BroadPaddle Trail, a symbol of unity,
environmental respect and theboundless joy found in the great

(01:09):
outdoors.
I'll see you on the other side.
You're listening to ExplorationLocal, a podcast designed to
explore and celebrate the peopleand places that make the Blue
Ridge and Southern AppalachianMountains special and unique.
My name is Mike Andrus, thehost of Exploration Local.

(01:31):
Join us on our journey toexplore these mountains and
discover how they fuel a spiritof adventure.
We encourage you to wander far,but explore local, let's go.
So we paddled this morning.
We're back in the studio today.
Thanks so much for coming inthe studio to talk about this.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, super grateful to be here Mike Thanks so much
for having me and talking aboutthe paddle trail today and super
grateful we got out for a floatthis morning.
It was a beautiful day for it.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
It was incredible.
Yeah, absolutely.
Let's talk just real quicklyabout the geography.
So let's talk about sort of theheadwaters, where it runs to
where it terminates, and thenwe're going to talk a little bit
about some of the specialprojects with the campsites like
we talked about.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, so the French Broad River, the section that we
help manage as the French BroadPaddle Trail, flows from Rosman
, north Carolina, here inTransylvania County, all the way
through Cocke County, tennessee, into Newport, tennessee, at
Douglas Lake.
So that includes TransylvaniaCounty, county Seat being
Brevard, where the river is kindof narrow and sinuous and

(02:32):
there's trees and it's kind oftight and slow and things like
that.
It's beautiful.
Into Henderson County where itkind of still is slow and low
but a little bit wider, a lot offarmlands, a lot of floodplain
in those areas.
Then into Buncombe County whereit's a little bit wider still.
You're starting to see moreriffles and bedrock and a little
bit of gradient, although thewhitewater is calm and relaxed.

(02:53):
Then into Madison County whereHot Springs is and things like
that, and that's where thewhitewater is and the rafting
and the kayaking and the goodrapids, before it kind of
continues as such into CocatCounty, tennessee, where there's
national forest land and yetmore rapids and big gradient on
the sides in terms of cliffs and, you know, mountains and things
like that, before it kind ofslackens back out and slows as

(03:14):
it enters into Douglas Lake.
So that's about 140 milesaltogether.
That's where we do our work inprogramming.
But the French Broad River doescontinue below Douglas Lake for
a little bit beforeconfluencing with the Holston
River where it forms theTennessee River near Knoxville.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
Wow.
So there's a lot of literallymoving parts to this and a lot
of small creeks and things likethat, that sort of dump into the
French Broad that justincreases its flow as you go
through it.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yeah, major tributaries that you or your
listeners might be familiar withare the actual forks of the
French Broad down inTransylvania County the North
Fork, west Fork and East Fork.
There's the Davidson.
There's the Little River InHenderson County, there's the
Mills and Mud Creek In BuncombeCounty, there's the Swannanoa
River and Harmony Creek.
Madison County there's BigLaurel and Spring Creek.

(04:00):
There's a variety oftributaries that come in and add
flow and character throughoutthe way.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah, it's amazing, and you all the French Broad
Riverkeeper.
That's a program that existswithin Mountain True.
So this is not just its ownstandalone thing.
This is kind of part of abigger mission and a bigger
vision that Mountain True hasfor this river, this region,
this whole area.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
That's correct, yeah, so Mountain True is a regional
nonprofit advocacy organizationthat also does quite a bit of
stewardship of our public landsand resources, and we're focused
on clean water, resilientforests and healthy communities.
And so the French Broad RiverKeeper Program specifically, is
a program within the cleanwaters area of our work and that
focuses on swimmable, drinkable, fishable waters here in the

(04:44):
French Broad River watershed,and one of our programs within
that is the French Broad PaddleTrail, which is focused on
access, stewardship, signage,camping and information along
the river Basically all thingsrelated to recreation on the
French Broad River.
But the French Broad RiverKeeper Program otherwise, we do
water quality monitoring, we dopollution enforcement, keeping

(05:04):
an eye on bacteria and otherissues all across the watershed,
and so that kind of waterquality arm and our recreation
arm fit together really well toensure that the river is
protected and clean, but alsothat it's accessible and fun and
safe.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
Perfect.
Well, that's a great backdrop,so thanks for painting the huge
picture.
This gives us a little bit ofcontext of what we're talking
about today, but specificallywhat we want to focus in on is
this French Broad Paddle Trail.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
Here in North Carolina our state trails
program.
I can't remember the numbersright off hand, but between 10
and 15 state trails and most ofthose are terrestrial trails.
Think of like the Mountains toSea Trail, you know, or the
Fonteflores State Trail or theHickory-Dunk Gorge State Trail.
But there are also paddletrails.
So the French Broad River is apaddle trail in the state trail
system the Ha River State Trail,the Reedy River and a few other

(05:52):
ones across the state.
Here on the French Broad theFrench Broad River State Trail
was designated in 1987, and thatwas a result of the powers that
be determining that the riverhad sufficient access points and
connectivity and unifiedmanagement behind it and kind of
an energy of recreation thatkind of elevated it to this
quality of experience.

(06:13):
And so between the late 80s andthe early 2000s that mostly
just kind of was something onpaper, it existed in legislation
, there were some interestedparties kind of working on
managing the river for that.
There were some interestedparties kind of working on
managing the river for that.
But the river was also in poorcondition in certain ways and
there wasn't as much energybehind Stewart's Buzz there is
now and over time it kind of gotbetter and better and more
access came together.

(06:33):
No-transcript experience thatit is now and kind of in that

(06:56):
kind of early 2000s, you know,2010 era, is when I really
consider the trail to belaunched, kind of to become
reminiscent of what it is today.
So, between now and then we'vekind of increased all those
amenities that were created backat that time.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
I love to kind of talk a little bit about the
number of campsites that you allactually manage.
The one that we saw today issomebody could pull over there,
but the facilities aren't there,it's not marked, it's not named
.
Well, I guess it may be named.
At least you had an idea ofwhat it could be named.
But yeah, let's talk about someof those campsites that exist
right now, the of recreation andstewardship and access for the
river.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
You know we're kind of the we're the state's
official partner.
You know, for the French RedRiver State Trail we're the ones
that kind of are that liaisonto the state government.
But you know county governments, you know state governments,
the federal government, theForest Service, local
governments and other nonprofitsand even businesses all partner
together to create and stewardaccess, do on river stuff etc.

(08:08):
So we're one of many groupshere that do that.
But specifically what you knowMountain Truth's Paddle Truck
Program really focuses in on is,you know, creating and
maintaining access points,creating and maintaining
riverside campsites.
You know, maintaining unifiedsignage and also information
like a website and print map andthings like that.
So kind of within that, youknow, one of our unique
offerings and things that we dois creating and maintaining, you

(08:31):
know paddle trail specificcampsites.
So these are campsites that youcannot as a user drive into
from the road but you can accessfrom the river, you know, as a
stopover point for a one nighttrip or for doing the entire
river system.
And so we have, you know, acampsite here in Transylvania
County, we have one in HendersonCounty, we have two in Buncombe
and two in Madison.

(08:52):
We maintain six currently andthose campsites you know they
kind of vary in terms of likeshape and feel, in terms of
where they are if they're in the, if you're, you know, in like a
field or a forest or like abluff, things like that but they
all have the same basicamenities.
They all have an access pointout of the river you need to get
in and out of your boat.
They have, you know, a picnictable, a fire ring, an elevated

(09:13):
composting toilet, you know,space to, you know, pitch a tent
or put up a hammock, thingslike that, and they're, all you
know, kind of consistent interms of their amenities, of
offerings.
So those are the ones that wemaintain.
But there are other campsitesthat other kind of private
outfits maintain as well, thatare more campsites that you can
drive into and access but alsojust happen to be along the
river and are available forpaddle trail overnight users.

(09:35):
And our goal for our sites isto have one to where someone
could theoretically do thatentire 140 mile section of river
between Rosman and Newport,camping along the way at
reasonable stopover points alongthe way, and there's a couple
of spots where it's a little bitlonger stretches, but more or
less, you know, those sites thatwe have create that experience.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
That's great.
Let's unpack a little bit ofwhat we did today.
So I know we just did a smallsection.
We could have done a little bitdifferent, but we focused right
on trying to get to thatcampsite Water Could have been a
little bit different, but wefocused right on trying to get
to that campsite Water flowagain was up a little bit, but
just beautiful.
I mean the springtime,everything's budding, blooming,
it's coming out, but thisparticular spot is just really
picturesque.
But let's talk about that andthen why this particular place

(10:17):
is so important and why did youearmark this one particular spot
?

Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yeah, great question.
Yeah, so today we floated fromPisgah Forest River Access kind
of right there in Pisgah Forest,right outside of the city of
Brevard, down to Everett Road,which is also, I think, a Pisgah
Forest address, but here incentral Transylvania County and
there's a variety of great kindof you know part day trips that
are short across this regionthat we could have chosen.
But I focused on that onebecause right now we have a lot

(10:42):
of really cool programminghappening in transylvania county
and there's a variety ofreasons for that.
You know, it's the headwatersof the river, it's the first
county it flows through, there'sa lot of opportunity there in
terms of, just you know,interest, but there's also good
partnerships happening too, andso in transylvania county we're
currently working with somefunding that we have available
through the state trails program.

(11:03):
Back a few years ago, the stateof North Carolina General
Assembly budgeted or allocatedfunding in their budget for
State Trails.
Specifically, it was called theGreat Trail State.
The Great Trail State Coalitionwas the lobbying group that
advocated for this, and thefunding they got from it was the
Complete the Trails Fund, andso Mountain True in my position

(11:23):
has been the steward of thosefunds across the region, kind of
looking to allocate themtowards eligible helpful
projects.
And so here in TransylvaniaCounty our local TDA, our
Tourism Development Authority, afew years ago internally
commissioned a study called theBlueway Master Plan for the
French Broad River inTransylvania County and that was

(11:44):
a roadmap for projects thatcould improve access to the
river and experiences forpaddlers, for visitors, for
tourists, but also for locals.
I'm a huge fan of the reportbecause it helps leverage
natural resources from a tourismstandpoint.
But everything we do as part ofthat benefits locals as well,
myself included in that.

(12:05):
So here in Transylvania Countythere's a lot of energy towards
improving what we currently haveand so we floated this section.
We did today because I wantedto show you Pisgah Forest River
access where currently it's agravel lot with a boat ramp that
we're looking to kind ofreplace that boat ramp with a
better one, kind of make it alittle more accessible and
smoother and lower grade andthings like that, replace some

(12:25):
signage and things of thatnature.
But then where we took out wasa property that Conserving
Carolina, our land trust partnerin this region, recently
acquired for the sake of publicaccess to the river for this
campsite to be built and forthem to do floodplain
restoration as well, and we'rehopeful that we'll be
reimbursing them for thatpurchase through some funding
that we have access to throughthat same pot of funds from the

(12:47):
General Assembly.
So just a neat little sectionthat's going to be like it's a
couple miles long, it's short,it's fun, has a lot of potential
for new access and has a lot ofenergy at the put in and take
out.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
It's amazing to me all of the different
organizations that actually thatit takes to fund to advocate
for to steward it, that actuallythat it takes to fund to
advocate for to steward it'sreally a synergistic
relationship between thosegroups, which is really, really
cool.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah, for sure.
We're fortunate to work with avariety of awesome partners
across the entire watershed.
So here in North Carolina we'rein four counties you know fifth
in Tennessee and so on anygiven project or any given basis
, we're working with, you know,government agencies, including
federal agencies, like the USForest Service in Madison County
.
You know we're at the EpisodicNational Forest.

(13:30):
We work with state governments,including, obviously, the state
park system and state trailsprogram that supports us for the
state trails program, and thenalso, you know, with the North
Carolina Wildlife ResourceCommission that does a lot
around fisheries and angling,access and things like that.
So from the government we workwith those two.
And then we also work withlocal governments, like, you
know, county parks andrecreation programs.
You know, city governments inall the counties.

(13:53):
I won't go into detail, but wework with each and every parks
and recreation program and oryou know, their like farmlands
program, depending on what we'reworking on.
But we also work with localbusinesses Down here in
Henderson, transylvania County.
We work with HeadwatersOutfitters and Lazy Otter
Outfitters.
We also work with a variety ofthe outfitters in Asheville and
further downstream and thenlocal businesses or I mentioned

(14:15):
local businesses and then localnonprofits, so organizations
like Conservative in Carolina,that's a land trust that can
acquire and manage land here.
But we also work with Riverlinkin Asheville for the similar
types of projects in that area.
And then other kind of moreadvocacy, stewardship-based
groups like the Mills RiverPartnership or the French River

(14:35):
Partnership or groups like thatkind of all across the board
that help us accomplish ourmission and goals.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
Wow, those are a lot of relationships to the bridge
and to manage and to kind ofkeep going and all be.
They're all of the kindredspirit, they're all trying to do
some of the very same thing.
So I didn't realize it was thatmany agencies and organizations
that you have to work with.
But that makes sense to me.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah, for sure, and kind of the reason for that, you
know, among just the interestin partnering as such, as the
French Broad River you know the140 miles that we work on in
this region you know like it'snot managed by one particular
entity or agency.
Like if you go out west and youfloat, like the Grand Canyon or
the Salmon, you know kind ofthese big picturesque multi-day
river trips, typically there'sone, maybe two government

(15:18):
agencies, you know, the NationalPark Service or the Forest
Service, us Forest Service.
That's kind of managing thoseplaces.
They're covering the permits,they're owning and managing the
access points and they're kindof setting the rules and
regulations around that.
And here, you know, on theFrench Broad River, there is not
one entity that does that andthat's, you know, nice in some
ways because it makes it, youknow, more accessible in some

(15:38):
ways.
There aren't, you know, lotterypermits on the water and there
aren't fees and things like that.
But it makes it morechallenging in terms of like
ensuring that everyone'streating the river, you know,
nicely, they're not polluting itand that there's, you know,
equitable access areas withaccessibility and things like
that.
And so as a result, it kind ofjust takes this much larger
partnership of entities toprovide these.

(15:58):
You know basic services andopportunities.
You know equal, if not better,to what you might see on a river
managed by one particularorganization or agency.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
Good, good, good.
What I'd love to do is kind oftalk a little bit about why
these are so important from arecreation perspective, not just
for people traveling in, butfor people that live here and
just looking to get away.
Because we were talking earlierabout we can drive, we kind of
think of having to go on anadventure, we're driving to
these places, but there's theseovernight camping, remote-ish

(16:30):
kind of places that are righthere in our backyard.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
So the campsite that we visited today is not
currently open.
It will be within, hopefully, amonth or so.
We're probably going to call itPoplar Bend.
The property that it's on isoff of Everett Road and this is
a property that ConservingCarolina purchased last fall for
the reason of becoming a publicaccess point and Riverside
campsite and also, more thanlikely, some kind of floodplain

(16:54):
restoration work in the middleof it.
It's a 16-acre property off theFrench Broad River, there in
Pisgah Forest and, as Imentioned before, we're planning
to reimburse them for thatpurchase through a grant and so
the campsite portion of that isgoing to be located on the
upstream portion of thatproperty and we're excited about
that because it kind of puts itin a really important area.
There are a couple riversidecampsites further upstream in

(17:16):
Transylvania County managed by acouple of variety of private
businesses that are open to thepublic to use for the fee, and
we have some campsites kind offurther down into Henderson
County.
So this kind of puts a campsitein between those two, making it
usable for people that aredoing a multi-day trip.
That kind of includes that area.
In terms of the site itself, thebasic amenities that we have

(17:37):
and we'll be offering.
There are, like I mentionedbefore, we'll be building an
access out of the river thatenters into the property.
We'll have a nice picnic tablethere, nice firing.
We do elevated compostingtoilets to kind of keep, you
know, human waste, you know, outof the floodplain and out of
the river and also kind of likea moan open space for users, you
know, to tent camping orhammock camping, things like

(17:58):
that.
And so we're excited about thatbecause, you know, just those
sites themselves offer such aunique experience, what you're
talking about for people thatwant to have, you know, like
this multi-day adventure.
You know where they're paddlingdownstream from their canoe or
kayak but don't necessarily havethe means or the knowledge or
the you know the, the equipmentto do a big trip.
You know out West, you know inin in the Rockies or on the

(18:18):
Grand Canyon, or even on theboundary waters or or things
like that.
Like here in the Southeast, wehave quite a few blueways or
paddle trails where you can domulti-day trips, but not a whole
lot.
Right here in western NorthCarolina and the French Broad is
a unique spot where you can doa one-night trip with five miles
beforehand and five milesafterwards, or you can do like a
seven-day trip, you know,covering 140 miles, and this

(18:39):
campsite facilitates thatexperience right here in
Transylvania County.
Or I guess we're in HendersonCounty talking right now, but
where we were this morning inTransylvania County, or I guess
we're in Henderson Countytalking right now, but where we
were this morning inTransylvania County, and so
we're excited about that.
And just yeah to your point.
Like you know a lot of these,the river, the French Rod River,
is not a wilderness location,you know there's.
At any given point, you'renever usually more than a mile
or two from a road, if not less.
And but these sites, though,are oftentimes they're in old

(19:01):
farms, you know, or they're inforests, you know, they're just
in the floodplain, where theydon't have a whole lot of
development around them,depending on how the roads are
arranged.
And so pretty quickly and easily, you can get to a place where
you feel like you're way outthere in this quiet, solitudinal
place, but in reality you'repretty close.
And that's helpful for bothperspectives because, like, on
one hand, you have that, youknow, that kind of feeling of
being far out and, you know,having enough solitude, but also

(19:25):
if there was an emergency orsomeone's having a bad time or
just feeling sick or whateveryou could paddle out in like an
hour or less.
You're pretty close to thefront country pretty quickly.
So it kind of provides bothexperiences of something that
feels fun and remote, but alsosafe and secure.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah Well, and the other thing we talked about too
is, even if somebody is lookingfor just that quick experience,
it may not be that they have thetime for a few days, it may
just be a few hours.
And in this particular section,what we talked about, when the
Acousta Trail comes online andthat won't be long, it'll be.
You know, henderson County ismoving a little bit quicker than
Transylvania County, but whenthat's all said and done, you're

(20:01):
talking about an opportunitywhere you can take one car, take
your gear, float, have a bike,run your own shuttle, do this
lap.
I mean, there's a lot of thingsyou're going to be able to do.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
That you might not be able to do if you were so, so
remote, totally.
Yeah, one of my favorite thingsto talk about, just in doing in
general, is like a self-shuttlepaddling trip, and what that
means is, like you know,typically when you go boating,
you have, you know, say you havetwo people and two cars.
You're going to drive to thetakeout, load everything into
one car, drive to the put-in,paddle down the section, load
everything into the second carand drive back out, which is
fine, that's the normal way todo things in a problem.

(20:35):
But there are certain locationswhere you have relaxed roadways
or you have greenways or trailsthat kind of like more or less
follow the river or provide away to kind of get back to the
put-in from where you take outor less follow the river or
provide a way to kind of getback to the put in from where
you take out and with that nowyou can do what I call the self
shuttle, where maybe you dropall your stuff off at the put in
, drive to the takeout, you know, in one car and then bicycle or

(20:56):
jog or walk or whatever back tothat put in and paddle back
downstream and reverse itafterwards.
So just kind of allows a youknow for a you know a one car
trip with your buddies, andespecially if you're say you're
coming in from further away andvisiting this area.
You're bringing one car versustwo, or saving money, not having
to hire a shuttle, but you alsoget some fun exercise.
You get to ride your bike, youknow, and see these other parts

(21:16):
of the watershed from thatperspective as well.
But even if that's not for you,if you have two cars now, these
kind of these trailheads thatserve with the Acusa Trail and
the river, you know, sharingaccess points and whatnot,
become places where you can doboth in one day While to your
point.
You know being 15 minutes fromyour house, like it just
provides way more opportunity inthis corridor for people that

(21:37):
want to enjoy the river but alsoget some exercise at the same
time.
And one thing I'll mention thatI forgot to before is that you
know these camps that wemaintain.
You know to stay overnight atthem.
You know these campsites thatwe maintain, you know to stay
overnight at them.
You know we ask that youreserve them via our website and
we have a campsite page on thatwebsite.
There's a small fee that helpssupport our stewardship of them,
you know.
So those are a little morestructured in terms of how
they're booked and paid for.

(21:59):
But you know our intention withthese sites as well is for them
to be kind of, you know, restand stopover points along the
water.
Because you know, given thatmost of the French River
watershed is privately owned interms of its riparian areas,
there aren't a whole lot ofspots where you can kind of
legally or safely hop out andhave some lunch, like.
There's a lot of, you know,shoals and beaches that are more
or less fine, but thesecampsites give places assuming

(22:21):
no one else is there alreadywhere you can pull off, have
some lunch, go to the bathroom,relax for a little bit and kind
of take some pressure off ofother places as well.
So there are overnightcampsites, but there are also
rest stops and stopovers as well.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Oh, that's great, Jack.
One thing I don't think I'veeven asked you and I'm just kind
of assuming this whole time, isthe French Broad Paddle Trail.
I mean, I know when it wasestablished and then some of the
funding that's come up,especially some of the funding
that's come up especially thislast year.
Is this something that is sortof new for Mountain, not new?
Is this something like aresurgence of effort with the
paddle trail or is thissomething that just now you're

(22:54):
kind of here focusing on it morefull-time, that more effort,
energy is going to put towardsit?
How does that all play in?

Speaker 2 (23:01):
and yeah, yeah, that's a great question.
Yeah, so, going back a littlebit, as I mentioned, you know,
our organization, mountainTrue's French Broad Riverkeeper
program, you know, started offwith the French Broad
Riverkeeper.
Hartwell Carson is my coworkerand longtime Mountain True staff
.
He basically runs all of ourFrench Broad Riverkeeper
programming.
So you know, he kind of youknow, leads all the things
around water quality andrecreation and advocacy and

(23:22):
lobbying and things like that.
We have another team member,anna Alsobrook, who is our
watershed science and policymanager and she is kind of more
hands-on in the details aroundwater quality, sampling,
enforcement, kind of gettingmore into the nitty-gritty of
those issues and details.
And then my role is focused onthe paddle trail, specifically

(23:42):
related to recreation and accessand things like that.
So I've been working withMountain True off and on since
2017 in this role, now full time.
But Anna and Hartwell have beenthere for much longer and
historically the paddle trailwas a focus of their job.
But it was one of many things.
They would work on the paddletrail in the summer trying to
get these campsites together andclean the bathrooms and get the

(24:04):
restrooms figured out and thesignage and mapping and all that
.
But they'd also be working onwater quality stuff.
They'd also be leading eventsand lobbying all this kind of
stuff and they just gotoverwhelmed with that and you
know, somewhere along the way,you know, certain things had to
take a backseat and the paddletrail often did because it just
required less.
You know, consistent hands-onwork.
But when the state, you know,through the Complete, the, the
trails fund, decided to investin state trails financially and

(24:27):
from capacity wise, it made moresense at that point to kind of
bring someone back on full-timeokay turn this program
specifically and that's kind ofwhere my role kind of came back
in to kind of really focus in onthis, this program,
specifically, because we havemoney to support it and because
there's a lot of energy aroundit.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, capitalize on it whileyou can, and and then all the
other things, like we said aminute ago, just with the
Acoustic Trail coming online andthere's so many other resources
just in this Henderson County,transylvania County, and then
obviously we know that, you know, moving up into Tennessee
there's more.
But yeah, in those specificareas there's a lot of energy
around this right now for sure.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yeah, there is so much energy and funding for that
matter and just capacity for,you know, public outdoor
recreation in Western NorthCarolina right now.
It's so awesome.
I know that the year of thetrail campaign from last year
for trails and the Great TrailState funding that came around
and just like enthusiasm andsupport from our local tourism

(25:21):
authorities and other partners,there's so much energy around
this topic right now, which Ithink is amazing.
But I'm also grateful that wehave, you know, good people and
good organizations ensuring thatthings happen in a way that are
equitable and accessible,because, you know, oftentimes we
think of these amenities, liketrails and greenways and rivers
and parks, as places that we allcan enjoy, but we often kind of

(25:41):
forget that sometimes, like,access isn't always necessarily
equitable in terms of you know,what languages are available for
people to read signage in?
Are your boat ramps accessiblewith a capital A in terms of for
people that have issues orchallenges with mobility?
Are they accessible for them?
Are there opportunities for awide variety of types of people
in terms of costs associatedwith them them?

(26:02):
So now we can get, with thisextra capacity and funding and
time and interest, we can gobeyond just creating the thing,
but create it in a way that'saccessible for as many people as
possible, in a way that'ssustainable, long-term.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yeah, that's huge.
You know, the connection that Ijust made, in my brain too,
with the whole movement lastyear.
And then the funding is thisidea of trails, kind of being
for all and all, being literallyall.
But part of that too is justdifferent ability levels and
experience levels.
And so you know somebody likeyourself, for example, you know
you're a classified boater,you'll pack raft.

(26:35):
I mean, um, what do you call?

Speaker 2 (26:37):
it, is it pack?

Speaker 1 (26:37):
All right, so you're you're going to pack raft, you
know you're going to do somesome extreme, remote stuff, but
yet I find somebody likeyourself having equally joy in
your canoe today just going downa flat section.
So you just appreciate it likefor what it is.
And the really cool thing to meis that if you bring somebody
in who doesn't have any of theseexperiences, it's really really

(26:59):
safe.
Now, hopping on section nine atflood is a different story.
Hopping on these sections uphere where you can float, feel
comfortable on a sit on top, youknow, an open boat, kayak,
whatever it is it just allowsthe experience, the outdoor
experience, getting people outthere to experience all the
benefits of it, and they don'thave to be somebody who this is.
You've done it all your life andyou've got all the right gear,
and I mean you want to have somegear and I want to talk about

(27:20):
your website here in a minutebecause that really helps people
.
But that's one of the thingsthat really strikes me, and this
blue way is a perfect exampleof that as well.
Right, so you have some ofthese multi-use trails, like the
Fanta floor that might havesteep elevations in some
sections, but other sectionsit's just flat, it's asphalt, it
might be a different surface,but in the blue ways it's the
same.
It's the exact same thing, andand and.

(27:42):
This is a great opportunity forfamilies.
If you just got into it before,if you bought your, you know
your sit on top at your localretailer and you just want a
place to try it out and to besafe.
This is it.
I mean, this is really a greatspot.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yeah, you raise a really good point too because,
like a lot of our programmingand work right now, given that
we're working with funding forprojects, has been kind of
allocating and stewarding thisfunding to eligible places.
So, like you know, replacingold, eroded stairs with a ramp,
you know, or getting some newsignage in here, or acquiring a
property over here, things likethat.
But you know, what's importantto think about is like we can,

(28:14):
you know, build and facilitatesustainable and quality access,
camping signage, whatever youknow, for years and years.
But if we don't create acommunity that's comfortable
using them, then it just kind ofcontinues to serve the
privilege that have those means.
So, to your point, even thoughthese sections here in the
headwaters that we're kind offocusing on for this
conversation, given that we justfloated one of them, is kind of

(28:37):
categorically more accessiblefor folks, given that it's flat,
calm, quiet water and doesn'thave the same challenges
associated with it as whitewaterdoes, we still are trying to
kind of build the community toactually access and use them.
So we do that through a varietyof measures between publicizing
what we're working on andshowing it off and working with
partners that can facilitatethat.
But we're also trying to kindof work with our local

(28:59):
outfitters that for their jobsand for their work they lead
trips and they rent boats, andtrying to make sure that they're
kind of connecting people in ahelpful way with these new
things and vice versa.
Oftentimes they're the oneshelping us out think about where
things could be improved andhow they could be bettered based
off what they know.
But Mountain True also, you know, one of our the paddle trail
program's focus, you know, partof our kind of our mission is to

(29:22):
, you know, create and hostevents and opportunities for
people to celebrate and learnabout the river.
So that can be in the form of aguided paddle trip where it's
free or very low cost, where wehave a fleet of boats, we have
inflatable kayaks, we havecanoes, you have a couple of
sit-on-top kayaks, you have araft or two.
With that we can take peopleout on the river for little to

(29:43):
no cost at all, depending onwhat their means are, and show
off this stuff to them and say,hey, check this out, enjoy this,
or encourage people tounderstand these opportunities
in their backyard.
And we focus on people thatlive here locally that might not
otherwise have the means to dothat or want to go on a float
where they can learn from peopleworking on these topics.
So, along with creating andstewarding these resources or

(30:05):
these opportunities andamenities, we also try to create
opportunities and hostopportunities for people to get
out and experience them directlyas well.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
I love that.
I love that.
Do you have anything in mind interms of this section?
You're such a smart guy.
You're always kind of thinkingabout the next step.
I don't think you reallyapproach life with any just kind
of you know, well, let's justkind of see how it goes.
I mean, you're very thoughtfulin the way you approach it 100%.

Speaker 2 (30:27):
A lot to go?
Yeah, go for it, but no, yeah,so we do actually.
So we were talking on the riverearlier about some of the cool
work that Made by Mountains isdoing and the Outdoor Business
Alliance and I won't get intothe detail about what they are
because it's a whole otherconversation.
They do awesome work andthere's resources that, but

(30:49):
about a year ago or maybe lastspring or summer, they opened up
a grant called the OutdoorEquity Fund.
That funding source is really,at its core nature, focused on
creating opportunities forpeople to get outside or enjoy
the outdoors that might nototherwise have had the means to
do so.
So they're focusing in on BIPOCcommunities, but also
communities that have challengeswith mobility or financial
means basically just reducingthe barrier to getting outside,

(31:09):
at its core focus here inWestern North Carolina, and so
we applied for a little bit offunding for that to support what
I was just talking about, wherewe can be budgeted to hire a
shuttle or rent some gear or buysome snacks or support our
staff to take people out on theriver to show off what we're
talking about from, like youknow, interpretation standpoint,
but also to like communicatebest practices in terms of how

(31:32):
to paddle, you know how to, youknow use these boats correctly,
how to practice, leave no trace,you know kind of what flora and
fauna they're seeing along theway.
Not just like putting people inthe river and saying, go for it
, have fun.
More just like, hey, let's goalong for this together, talk
about what we're seeing and kindof share this, share this world
with you a little bit.
And so last year we had fourfloats through that program, two

(31:53):
of which with an organizationcalled find outdoors.
Yeah, they have a programcalled club exploradores and we
partner with their staff to takeout groups twice of students,
youth, twice on the river,actually a very similar section
that you and I did today, but alittle bit longer, kind of
showing off that section.
We also partnered with ElCentro of Transylvania County,

(32:13):
which is like an afterschoolprogramming group for Latino
individuals, and then also did afloat with Latinos Aventureros,
which is a statewide groupfocused on facilitating outdoor
recreation opportunities forSpanish speakers and a variety
of other people, and wepartnered with them for an
awesome float last summer.
This year we have two morefloats, kind of in the queue and

(32:34):
in the budget, working withBIPOC climbers.
We're going to do, actually awhitewater section float down in
Madison County where we'rebringing out our staff and
equipment, and then we're alsoworking on another float with
Find Outdoors, closer to Rosman,and so that just allows us.
Our staff has boating experience, we have knowledge and guiding
abilities and things like that.
We've got boats, we've got allthese other kind of in-kind

(32:55):
resources, and when we pair thatwith a little bit of funding to
cover the basic needs of a trip, we can just break down that
barrier for cost.
And we're by no means trying toundercut our local outfitters
by any means.
They're busy and happy andgreat.
We're just trying to kind oftake that edge off for certain
communities that might otherwisebe able to afford those
services.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
Right, and it fits right in with your mission too.
Yeah, so yeah, that makesperfect sense.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
And it informs what we do.
You know, like, right now we'rekind of working on new signage.
We just built a new website,we're working on a new app.
Like, when we build thoseresources, we want to ensure
that the language used and thatthe you know the way the
symbology is done, you know,kind of is accessible to as many
people as possible.
And so, on one hand, we couldjust like go out and have
interviews with people and kindof ask them like, you know, how
should we do this or how shouldwe do that?
But what's way better, whatwe've learned and been shown is

(33:39):
that it's easier to like go outon floats with people and talk
about it in the situation Like,for example, like, if, like a
fallen tree, if a river, if atree is falling across the river
and it's now, you know, ahazard, like, how do we
communicate that in Spanish?
Like you know, like I mightspeak Spanish a little bit, I
might understand what that is inEnglish, but directly
translated might not make sense,and we can kind of work with
people on the water tounderstand those you know issues

(34:00):
and challenges, to communicatethem adequately, depending on no
matter who's reading it.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
I quickly, depending on no matter who's reading it, I
love that.
I love that and that wasactually a really good segue,
because the website itself is isgreat.
You can not only find out andlearn about the river itself
what we talked about, the whole140 miles but all the campsites.
There's multiple campsites thatare listed on there too.
But one of the things to tieback into somebody who's just
getting into this orexperiencing this for the kind

(34:24):
of the first time is a gear list, and so you really kind of help
people understand and we'llhave the link to this in the
show notes.
But I wonder if you can kind ofjust walk us through more kind
of at a high level, 30,000 feetabout the site map of the
website and the resources thatpeople can find on that website.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
Yeah, sure, so we maintain a website for the
French Broad Paddle Trail.
It's frenchbroadpaddleorg.
I think com and org both work,I think it both takes you to the
same spot.
And that's version two.
I don't know exactly when thefirst website was created.
I think it was sometime in 2010or 12.
That site was awesome, but itreally kind of focused more on
two things.
It had a really goodinteractive web map that kind of

(35:01):
like showed where things were.
Then it had a really good pagefocused on the campsites that
Mountain Tree maintained.
There was a little bit of otherpages around, you know, like
other campsites and outfitters,but it kind of one of those
things we you know with our teambeing stretched so thin at that
time is that it didn't get thesame level of maintenance and
ongoing use that it could have.
And so, you know, when we gotsome of this funding for paddle

(35:22):
trail work in general, we reallywanted to prioritize a good
quality website that could bekind of like a good, just like
comprehensive resource for riverrecreation on the French Broad
in general.
It also be a better system formanaging reservations on our own
campsites Full disclosure.
The earlier website was a littlebit of a challenge for us to
kind of manage the backend of interms of like, payments,

(35:44):
reservations and all that kindof stuff, because we're not at
our core, we're not like alodging facility, you know, but
like, but we do do that service.
So we wanted to kind of have aresource that did that and it's
also a little bit of afundraiser for our organization
as a nonprofit.
But we also wanted to make it,you know, like a lodging

(36:06):
reservation management platformbuilt into it too.
So FrenchRubPedalcomorg, thehomepage, kind of just gets into
some narrative around, kind ofwhat the pedal trail is, who's
involved, what Mountain True'srole in that is, I would say
overarchingly across the wholewebsite.
You know Mountain True kind oftakes a little bit of a backseat
.
You know I want it to be.

(36:28):
I want to show that we'realigned with the paddle trail
and that what we do is a bigpart of it.
But I don't want it to be likeit's our thing.
You know it kind of shows offas like this is this big picture
community working on this stuffoverall.
So we have a listing of accesspoints by name and by mile
marker.
We have a web map that shows offlocations of those access

(36:49):
points and campsites, milemarkers, and one thing that I
really like about the new siteis that the web map that we have
.
It's based in Google Maps andwe're able to add pins, little
notes on their little waypointsthat show if there's a fallen
tree or if there's aconstruction project, if there's
a dam.
Obviously, things like dams arekind of permanent not permanent

(37:13):
but stable, solid barriers orchallenges or hazards but things
like fallen trees, what we callriver-wide woody debris or
construction projects, thingslike that, those are helpful for
people to know that they exist.
But we can kind of also add andsubtract them as they come up,
so that web map does that.
We've also got a gear list, likeyou mentioned.
We've got suggested trips,we've got common questions on
there, we've got a link going togauges and flows for water
levels and we're starting tokind of build out a few more

(37:36):
bits of information on that,focused on, you know, like
partnerships and supporters andkind of how people can get
involved.
Because on the homepage we havelike a brief list of like
upcoming events that we'rehosting or other people are
hosting that are relevant.
But I want to have a biggerpage about like how and where
you can donate to differentorganizations Like what's the
bigger picture look ofstewardship events for volunteer
work.
You know what are other waysfor the public to engage in this

(37:58):
endeavor beyond just going fora float.
You know how can you?
get involved in a deeper leveland so we're kind of getting
into all that, but for now we'rehopeful.
It's kind of just like acomprehensive resource for
people to trip, plan and go out.
But we also have, you know,links to outfitters and
retailers for to kind of sendpeople off into more detailed
bits and information if theyneed that.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Oh, it's great.
So yeah, I'm on here now andyou have the section for people
to just kind of engage.
You have a learn section,Mountain, True Coffee Hour,
Snorkel, the French BroadPaddling Film Festival tour
screening that's coming upvolunteering on all of these
river cleanups, partnering withHeadwater Outfitters for an
annual French Broad cleanup.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
Yeah, so that's our homepage, which we have kind of
like a top line just links outto those events that we're
putting on, so that kind ofchanges as they kind of happen
to rotate through it.
But cool, I do that someone.
That's what someone's seeingwhen they first come on the site
is like you know what's goingon first and foremost here
locally, and now then kind ofgoing into other information as
they go and you also have aprinted version of this map and
I think you were explaining thatyou are kind of heading that up

(39:00):
.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
You're going to spearhead, redoing, making it a
little bit more, sort of pullingin your skills as a
cartographer and that sort ofthing, and that's a waterproof.
It's a spiral bound kind ofwaterproof from what I saw today
.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
Yeah, so we currently produce and print a print map
the Riverkeeper Sky to theFrench Broad River.
I think we're in its eighthedition, and that's been a
partnership of Hartwell Carson,french Riverkeeper, and Chris
Gibbs, who was the designer.
He's done some of the fishwater maps in the past and just
kind of help us put thattogether.
From like a design andproduction standpoint, that
map's awesome.
It's been great.
We've kind of gotten to a point, though, where Chris is no

(39:34):
longer really kind of working onthat anymore.
He's kind of retiring out andjust kind of made sense to bring
that whole project in house.
So, yeah, so this year, thespring and summer, we're working
on basically redoing that mapfrom scratch.
It'll be the same degree ofcontent but presented a little
bit differently, and so I thinkinstead of that kind of
spiral-down booklet style, it'sgoing to be more of like a

(39:55):
Pisgah Map Company styletwo-sided map, and we went back
and forth on that in terms ofthe best way to do it.
A lot of folks like that kind ofbooklet style one because they
can kind of see where they arealong it.
A lot of folks like that kindof booklet style one because
they can kind of see where theyare along it.
But a lot of people also werelike man, it'd be really nice to
like have all this detailpresented equally for the whole
section versus having to flipback and forth.
Also, just production wise,it's a lot more efficient and

(40:15):
cost effective to print thatkind of like the foldable style
versus the booklet style.
It's just like it's becomingincreasingly challenging to find
places to print that style andjust for a variety of reasons,
it makes sense to go that way.
But you know, no matter theformat, it's going to be much
more up to date, it's going tobe much more detailed, it's
going to be much kind of higherquality in terms of, like what
it offers for the user in termsof a print map experience.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
Oh, that's fantastic and a broad sense for you when
you see people enjoying this,when you see what's ahead, what
is really exciting you right nowspecifically Jack Henderson.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
What's exciting you?
I mean just for the last.
I mean whether or not I've beeninvolved for the last.
You know 15 years or so thatHartwell and other people have
been leading this like this isone of the first times we've had
access to funding to get goodprojects done.
In the past You've always kindof like, you know, piece things
together here and there and donereally good work, but it's been
a little bit tighter and morechallenging Right now.
You know we've got funding forto do the work that we want to

(41:10):
do in terms of improvements toaccess points, creation of
signage, you know, creation ofcampsites, programming and
things like that, and so I'mreally excited about just
actually having a work planthat's achievable.
And so I mentioned about someof these projects here in
Transylvania County.
We're working to improve PisgahForest River access and create
the new one at Everett Road.
But we're also working on, Ithink, two other access

(41:31):
point-based projects inTransylvania County, one at
Lyons Mountain River access andone at Champion Park.
We've got very similar projectshappening in Madison County and
a little bit in Buncombe Countyand I'm really excited just to
like have the resources to kindof reimagine and re-envision
some of these older access areasthat you know, like when you
think about trails, like youknow when you think about

(41:51):
building trail and you'rephysically building trail into a
mountainside or a hillside oryou know whatever the context is
, but for the river is you'renot building a trail, you know
the river is there.
You, the river is there, you'restewarding the trail, but our
access points, our trailheads,are some of the most impactful
places of accessing that trailoverall.
So I want to continue to investin those sites to make sure
that they're safe and usable andserving of a wide variety of

(42:14):
needs.
So having the means to get thatwork done is really exciting to
me, and then also just seeingjust our regional community
investing more in the riverholistically is what really
excites me.
We're a member of the FrenchRed River Partnership, which is
a group of all kinds oforganizations working on water
quality, working on riversideland protection, working on
stormwater and climate changeissues and things like that and

(42:37):
also recreation.
Being a part of this communityand offering one specific but
helpful niche to that is reallyexciting, because in the past it
felt much more like we weredoing a ton of work.
Now we kind of have a littlemore help with that work and
just feels a little more evenlydistributed and like it'll go a
lot further that's fantastic.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
So what have I not asked you?
What are some other things thatI have not brought out that you
would just you walk away fromhere and you say, gosh, we
should have covered that oh man,oh man, I know I think you
covered all of it.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
I'd love just to maybe, just you know, kind of
give a plug for use of thepaddle trail from an overnight
perspective.
I think you know we were tryingmore and more to make to break
down barriers to doing overnighttrips.
You know, I think a lot ofpeople are like, oh man, like
I've been backpacking or I'vebeen car camping, but like doing
an overnight river trip soundsjust like you know, like it's so
much work and it is some work.
You know it's definitelydifferent characteristics in

(43:27):
terms of what you have.
But, you know, if you've gotthe gear to do a basic camping
trip from your car, then more orless you've got the means to do
it on the river.
And, yes, it does take certainskills and knowledge to be
comfortable in a canoe or akayak or a raft.
But you know, like I want toencourage folks to, like you
know, kind of think out andconsider an overnight river trip

(43:47):
on the french broad, you know,as a new activity that they're
stepping up to or one thatthey've done elsewhere but not
here, because it really ispretty fun and given the amount
of access points and campus thatwe have now you can do it
pretty quickly and easily.
You could put on at fiveo'clock in the afternoon on a
friday and take off at middaysat Saturday morning and make it
as simple as that.
Or go for a week and, just likeI'm hopeful that our new

(44:08):
website, you know, has toolshelp make that easier.
But if your listeners are, youknow, take a look at that and
it's helpful, great.
If it's not helpful, have themreach out.
We have a contact page on thereand we're looking to make that
resource better and better and,you know, welcome impact from
the community or input from thecommunity to make it better.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Yeah, that's so good.
You know two things off fromthat.
We talked today when we werepaddling about when you go out
and you experience one of theseovernight trips and it doesn't
matter if it's this river orwhatever river, but when you do
that, you become in tune to it alittle bit more.
As you're spending, you know, acouple hours on the river, or

(44:43):
24 hours, you know, sleeping andwaking up, cooking breakfast,
coffee, all that kind of stuff.
There's a connection to theriver that I don't know how
you'd actually put it into words, but you just are.
I mean, if you care and if youhave half of a heart, yeah,
you're connected to that asset.
But the other thing for me isthat you become an ambassador
too.
So when you start talking about, yes, we did this, or you know

(45:06):
you could elevate Mountain True,if somebody doesn't know about
Mountain, True, you can elevatethe Great Trail State.
If somebody doesn't know aboutthat, you become more of an
advocate and an ambassador and aprotector of those spaces, I
think.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
That's spot on.
Yeah, and that was one of thereally big origins of, you know,
launching the paddle trail.
You know it existed as a statetrail back in the early 2000s
and 2010s, but one of you know,hartwell and the other partners'
goals was to make people awareof the river in terms of a
recreational asset, but also tolike get people on the water to
like see some of thesechallenges and issues we were

(45:39):
dealing with in terms of waterquality or polluters and things
like that, you know, not as away to put people in harm's way,
but just to have them seewhat's happening on the river
and see the potential for it toget better and better and better
, and I would say that's largelybeen a success.
There have been several sectionsof river that never used to be
considered common recreationalfloats.
People would do certainsections for certain reasons for

(46:01):
a while back, but now much moreof the river, if not all of it,
is considered popular andaccessible.
So with that becomes peoplebecoming more interested and
knowledgeable of all the varietyof sections along the river,
thus oftentimes caring more andmore about those sections as
well.
So it's kind of just evenlydistributed passion and energy
for conservation and protectionacross the water body as a whole

(46:23):
, which obviously serves ourwork, you know, given that we do
a lot of that work as anonprofit overall, but also you
know those of our partners andjust the community in general,
everyone wins when we have aclean river, you know, and I
think it's important that thepaddle trail continues to be a
resource for that, but also as away just to celebrate the
things that have happened.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
Yeah, boy, that is a perfect bow to tie on this
episode.
Yeah, no, that's good.
Well, I can't thank you enoughfor the trip today.
I know you and I have since wedid our first interview with
Pisgah Map Company.
We had a chance to connect atthe Outdoor Economy Conference,
which is where this whole ideacame from, and then finally
being able to do it.
I just really thank you for thetime today Love, being back on

(47:03):
the water, just kind of love,just kind of floating.
And for me I've driven by thesesections a lot, but just being
on the river I had never paddledthese sections before and it
does take on this whole notherfeel and look and experience.
And it's not just after heavyrain, the milky brown, french
broad, it's just, it's pretty, Imean, it's beautiful, the

(47:23):
wildlife beginning to come outand you know some of the
structures that are there thatjust allow you to feel connected
to the land.
And then again, moreimportantly, just the health
benefits that come from doingjust what we just did.
But, yeah, well, I hope thatpeople will do it.
I'm excited for you said PoplarBend.
Right, that's what we want toname this.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
Yeah, I think I'm 85% sure at this point that's going
to be the name.
Okay, we're working out thefinal details of the lease with
Conserving Carolina.
I think that's what's going toget baked in.
So currently on our website wehave a campsites page.
On that page there's kind ofall the campsites you know ours
and others included.
There's also kind of like afocus area within that
specifically.
So if you look now you won'tsee that, but probably in a

(48:03):
month or so you'll see that asan option to reserve and stay at
or visit from the river.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
All right, and not to add another thing onto your
long list of busy stuff for thesummer, we need to do a little
joint deal between explorationsome of the exploration, local
listeners and get out with theFrench Broad Paddle Trail and
make a day of it and just yeah,kind of expose people to
something that maybe theyhaven't seen before.
Like I hadn't seen before.
Sure, That'd be fun.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
That'd be awesome.
Yeah, and if you're looking foran action item for your
listeners, for the time being Iwould just say go to
frenchbobpaddlecomorg and onthere, just on the first thing,
on the homepage there's a listof upcoming events.
Those are events that we put on, you know, as things come up,

(48:49):
and those are opportunities toget out, you know, and get on
the river or by the river andsteward it or enjoy it.
But also keep an eye on some ofour partners pages.
You know Conserving Carolinahas a lot of events going on.
Obviously, you can take a floatwith a lot of our outfitters in
the area.
There's a wide variety of waysto engage with the river,
whether you're paddling on it orworking beside it.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
I love it.
I love it well, jack.
Thanks for the experience today.
Thanks for again stopping inhere talking a little bit more
about it.
I know our conversation won'tend the episode will but thanks
so much for your time today, bud.
Likewise, thank you.
Just as the fun was gettingstarted, we arrived at our
takeout.
I hope you enjoyed exploringthe beauty of North Carolina's
river scapes and learning aboutthe efforts to protect and

(49:23):
provide top-notch recreation onthe French Broad Paddle Trail.
As we wrap up this adventure,remember that the French Broad
River is more than just a bodyof water.
It's a symbol of unity andcommunity passion.
From the dedicated work of somany to the initiatives making
the river accessible to all,it's clear that this natural
wonder belongs to everyone,whether you're a local resident

(49:45):
or a visitor passing through.
We encourage you to experiencethe serenity and beauty of the
French Broad firsthand.
That's going to do it for thisepisode.
I truly hope you enjoyed it and, if you did, would you please
consider leaving a reviewwherever you download your
podcasts?
It truly does help us reachmore people.
Be sure to subscribe toExploration Local so you'll be

(50:05):
one of the first to know whennew episodes drop.
Join me on Instagram andFacebook and drop me a note at
mike at explorationlocalcom, ifyou ever have a suggestion for a
future episode or if you justwant to say hi, until next time.
I encourage you to wander far,but explore local.
Thank you With your hopes that Iwill stand With your hopes that

(51:09):
I will stand.

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