June 7, 2024 • 53 mins
Ever wondered how adventure can transform lives? Join us as we chat with Adam Combs, the passionate co-founder of Waypoint Adventure. Adam shares the remarkable journey of Waypoint in making outdoor experiences like rock climbing, hiking, and kayaking accessible to individuals with disabilities. Discover how cutting-edge adaptive equipment and specialized programs are breaking barriers and helping participants discover their strengths while building confidence.
Adam provides an inside look into Waypoint's customized adventure programs tailored for a variety of groups, from schools to social service agencies. Hear about their exciting collaboration with North Carolina State Parks, which has significantly expanded access to outdoor activities for marginalized communities. We discuss the vital infrastructure and training that ensure these adventures are safe and inclusive for everyone involved.
Gain insight into how inclusive outdoor activities are revolutionizing societal perceptions and fostering a culture of accessibility. Listen to inspiring stories of individuals overcoming incredible challenges, and understand the broader impact of the "dignity of risk" concept. Finally, we share how you can support Waypoint's mission through participation, volunteering, or donations, and invite you to be part of creating a world where everyone can experience the joy and empowerment of the great outdoors.
Adam provides an inside look into Waypoint's customized adventure programs tailored for a variety of groups, from schools to social service agencies. Hear about their exciting collaboration with North Carolina State Parks, which has significantly expanded access to outdoor activities for marginalized communities. We discuss the vital infrastructure and training that ensure these adventures are safe and inclusive for everyone involved.
Gain insight into how inclusive outdoor activities are revolutionizing societal perceptions and fostering a culture of accessibility. Listen to inspiring stories of individuals overcoming incredible challenges, and understand the broader impact of the "dignity of risk" concept. Finally, we share how you can support Waypoint's mission through participation, volunteering, or donations, and invite you to be part of creating a world where everyone can experience the joy and empowerment of the great outdoors.
Mike Andress
Host, Exploration Local
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mike@explorationlocal.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In this episode, I sit down with Adam Combs,
co-founder of Waypoint Adventureand director of Waypoint
Adventure, north Carolina.
Adam reveals the incrediblemission behind Waypoint
Adventure, a groundbreakingorganization dedicated to making
outdoor experiences accessibleto individuals with disabilities
.
We talk about the cutting-edgeworld of adaptive adventure
equipment and programs that makeinclusivity in outdoor
(00:22):
activities a reality, fromspecialized off-road wheelchairs
to innovative kayaks.
We'll explore the essentialinfrastructure and training
required to utilize these toolseffectively.
Adam also shares the excitingexpansion of Waypoint Adventure
into Western North Carolina, aregion brimming with
opportunities for inclusiverecreation, and we learned about
(00:42):
the organization'scollaborative efforts with local
schools, social serviceagencies and North Carolina
State Parks to design customizedadventures that meet specific
group needs and promotecommunity building.
Adam's passion shines as hetalks about fostering a more
inclusive community bynormalizing the participation of
individuals with disabilitiesin activities like rock climbing
(01:03):
, hiking and mountain biking.
Find out how you can supportWaypoint Adventure's noble
mission through participation,volunteering or donations.
I'll see you on the other side.
You're listening to ExplorationLocal, a podcast designed to
explore and celebrate the peopleand places that make the Blue
(01:26):
Ridge and Southern AppalachianMountains special and unique.
My name is Mike Andrus, thehost of Exploration Local.
Join us on our journey toexplore these mountains and
discover how they fuel thespirit of adventure.
We encourage you to wander far,but explore local, let's go.
Well, I'm excited to have AdamCombs in the studio with me
(01:47):
today.
He is the co-founder ofWaypoint Adventure and he's the
director of Waypoint AdventureNorth Carolina.
Adam, thanks so much fordropping into the studio.
I cannot wait to unpack thisconversation today.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Thanks for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
You know we were talking a little bit before we
started recording earlier thatour guests, the people who
listen to this podcast, theyknow that we talk a lot about
the benefits that can be derivedfrom being in the outdoors, be
it the physical benefits, theemotional benefits, the mental
benefits, all of those kind ofbenefits people get.
And I was reading in yourinformation one of the founders
(02:24):
and we'll kind of unpack this alittle bit, but Dan Minnick, who
was also the other co-founderof Waypoint Adventure he said
this and I really thought thiswas pretty profound If people
never experience genuinechallenge and see themselves
successfully overcoming it,they're less likely to challenge
themselves and more likely toavoid challenging situations.
The result is a missedopportunity to grow.
(02:47):
And, adam, I know that I'mpreaching to the choir with you,
but if I could ever think of apopulation that really needed
these types of opportunities togrow, it's the demographic that
you serve, that you all serve atWaypoint Adventure, and I love
to just kind of start there alittle bit.
What is Waypoint Adventure?
What is it that you all do atWaypoint Adventure?
And I love to just kind ofstart there a little bit.
What is Waypoint Adventure?
What is it that you all do.
(03:07):
How did you get involved withit?
And then there's so much morefor us to unpack.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Mike, I'll usually start this conversation with our
mission statement.
Waypoint's mission is tochallenge people with
disabilities to discover theirpurpose, talents and strengths
through the transforming powerof adventure.
That's the mission statementand the two parts that I'll
usually call out in that numberone challenging people with
disabilities.
So Waypoint runs adventureprograms for people with a wide
(03:33):
range of disabilities physical,intellectual and developmental,
social, emotional.
Regardless of the level ofsomeone's disability, we want to
say yes.
We want to barring some medicalcondition or a doctor saying
this isn't safe, or, you know,parents saying this isn't safe,
or the individual saying I'm notinterested in taking that risk.
We want to say yes to them, sowide you know.
(03:56):
Serving folks with a wide rangeof disabilities is the first
thing, and then the second thingis discovering purpose, talents
and strengths.
Mike, I mean I don't.
We haven't talked too muchabout our personal story.
I haven't heard your personalstory, but for me it's been
through adventure.
It's been through, you know,pushing myself, testing my
(04:16):
limits, challenging myself inthe outdoors, rock climbing
programs, multi-day backpackingtrips, you know those kinds of
things that that have taught mea lot about myself.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Starting from a very young age.
You know, and I do genuinelybelieve that adventure,
especially when done within asupportive community of people,
teaches us about ourselves.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
So true.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
We often talk about.
It's at the intersection ofchallenge and support is where
learning really happens.
So if we can provide theappropriate amount of whether it
be physical support,intellectual and developmental
support, a way of communicatingwhere folks understand it well
(05:02):
and a way of providingopportunities for people to
communicate with us so that weunderstand them, whether it be
identifying the exact rightlocation for a particular
individual or a group, you know,those are some of the examples
of specific ways that we provideand kind of surround folks with
a level of support and makethem feel like, okay, maybe I
(05:22):
can actually engage in thischallenging activity.
And we believe when that levelof support is put in place,
folks are more apt and morewilling to challenge themselves
and it's through that challengethat they walk away with that
kind of either that aha momentthat they've had themselves, or
whether it's us spending sometime asking the right questions
(05:43):
at the end to say, what did youget out of this?
Like, yes, it was fun, we allhad a blast, but we believe
there's something deeper thathappened with you today, and so
if you can help identify whatthat is, or if you can identify
what that is, let's get at thata little bit.
What is something that youexperienced today that you can
take back into your everydaylife?
You know things like confidenceand self-esteem and a better
(06:07):
understanding of what it meansto work as part of a team.
We believe those experiencesand that learning happens on
these adventures, and now peoplewalk away from our programs
being able to hopefully applysome of that back into their
everyday life.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Oh, that's amazing.
I wonder if we can sort of talka little bit about where you
all actually got started.
This came out of an.
It was sort of an offshoot ofsomething that you were doing up
in the Northeast, and I'd loveto kind of talk about that a
little bit.
How did all this get started?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
My undergraduate degree is in outdoor education
from Montreat College right herein Black Mountain.
Pretty soon after that I endedup at an organization in
Tennessee, over in theTri-Cities area in Bluff City,
specifically called RiverswayOutdoor Adventure Center.
And Riversway Outdoor AdventureCenter at that point in time
ran adventure programs that wereaccessible to people with
(06:56):
disabilities, and that was thefirst time I had the chance to
work alongside this community ofpeople.
To work alongside thiscommunity of people, and
probably the first time I Idon't know, not the first time,
but I don't know.
It just was one of those jobswhere it just kind of clicked.
Oh, my goodness, there's a real.
There's real impact happeninghere and we had formed a
(07:18):
partnership with the Tri-CitiesPublic School System.
When we were running, we calledit Adventure Incentive and if
students were meeting certainmarkers behavioral markers they
were bringing their homeworkback to school, their truancy
rates were going down, they wereactually showing up to school,
things of that nature werehappening then they would earn
these big adventure trips.
(07:39):
Okay, and it worked.
I mean, truancy rates weredeclining, students' grades were
going up, they were showingbetter behavior in the classroom
and out of the classroom.
It was working, and for me thatwas this aha moment of oh my
goodness, we can merge thisexperiential learning,
experiential education model,with a public school system or
(08:00):
this nonprofit with a publicschool system, bringing in a
unique program and it bringabout good results.
And so I ended up going back toget my master's in special
education from Appalachian StateUniversity and my hope was I
want my own classroom.
I want to be able to do, I wantto build deep relationships
with one classroom of studentsand be able to use some of these
(08:24):
experiential learning models inthe classroom.
And that was 2006 to 2008.
And so that was right when, ifyou're familiar with, the
federal mandate of no Child LeftBehind was being mandated on
schools and I was watching as Iwas doing my research work.
I was watching teachers coveredup in paperwork trying to do
(08:46):
all this reporting.
It wasn't.
It wasn't.
That program wasn't necessarilyrolled out super well and was
difficult to implement.
And I'm watching teacherscovered up in paperwork and I'm
like that's not what I want todo.
That's not why I got into this.
And so I kind of put the brakeson and did a scan of the
country.
Who else out there is usingadventure programming, working
with students in the specialeducation population in hopes of
(09:08):
bringing about good, you know,improved social and character
skills.
And I came across anorganization called Outdoor
Explorations, ended up getting ajob up there, moved to Boston
in 2008 and got started rightaway, you know, partnering with
the Boston Public Schoolsrunning adventure programs for
their special educationdepartments.
A little bit of time goes by2009,.
(09:31):
First quarter of 2009.
We walked into the office oneday and executive director sat
us down and said well, we'velost funding and we're closing
down.
It really felt like kind of agut punch because our team had
really just started ramping upand we're making these great
relationships and, you know,we're seeing a lot of fruit from
the programming we weredeveloping.
(09:53):
Walked out of the office thatday and the guy I was working
most closely with was DanMinnick.
We were kind of boots on theground designing and running
programs and he looked at me.
He's like dude, this can't end,got to keep doing it.
We got to keep this going andthat organization at that time
had 20 years of history but theywere wrestling the downturn in
(10:13):
the economy in 2008 and variousother things, Right.
So we, very naively in our earlyto mid twenties, started a
nonprofit.
So Waypoint was founded in 2010.
On the backs of outdoorexplorations and the history
that that organization had.
We still I mean, if Dan wassitting here, he'd say this too
(10:34):
we still very much feel likewe're stumbling through this.
You know we don't really knowexactly what we're doing, but
we're trying our best right,you're passionate.
And we're surrounding ourselves,trying to surround ourselves
with people that know and thatwe can ask questions of and can
help work alongside us to helpkeep pushing this ball forward.
But, mike, there's a need forthis Again.
(10:54):
Going back to my story, I havepersonally been impacted and, to
this day, when I need to thinkclearly about something, what do
I do?
I go for a long hike or I geton my mountain bike and I just
ride right Like it's therapeutic.
It helps me decompress, ithelps me understand, you know,
(11:20):
and be able to unpack certainthings that are going on in life
.
It helps me understand otherpeople better.
It builds deeper bonds, as wedo, you know.
Experience these adventurestogether.
Everybody needs to experiencethat yeah.
And so the sad part is there isa large population of people,
and some would say the largestminority in the world, is often
left out of experiences likethis because of a lack of access
(11:41):
, whether it be physical access,intellectual access, lack of
invitation.
I know a lot of people in thisspace right now are talking
about the importance of invitingpeople, even though for many
folks there isn't any sort ofextreme adaptation that needs to
happen.
They just need someone to sayhey, come on, I'm going to take
you out, we're going to go andyou're going to get a chance to
(12:03):
experience something like you'venever experienced before.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
You know Well it's amazing because you talk about I
mean you just kind of hit on itwhen you talked about that
there's a large population thatcan't, and those numbers, when I
read them, were pretty powerful.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I actually have the stats right here in front of me
16% in the world, one in six.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
In the US it's 27% one in four people have a
disability and in North Carolinait's 29%.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
It's that high One in three, wow, and that's a broad
spectrum right, if you thinkabout the spectrum of people
with disabilities physical,intellectual, social, emotional.
There's a lot of more extreme,severe disabilities and some not
so much, but people who havebeen identified as having a
disability 29% one in three inthe state of North Carolina.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Wow, yeah, wow, just real quick, at a high level.
What are the types ofdisabilities that you all are
working with?
Because it's not, and it'spretty, I mean, it's pretty wide
breadth of disabilities.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah, very wide breadth.
So you know, physicaldisabilities like spinal cord
injuries, folks with varyinglevels of cerebral palsy, those
types of things, any kind ofcondition that would cause
someone to need some sort ofmobility device, assistive
device, strokes we had a man ona hike recently that just had a
stroke and was able to walk alittle bit.
(13:25):
We took him on a hike out atChimney Rock, actually in
partnership with Chimney RockState Park.
Yeah, so folks with varyinglevels of physical disability,
intellectual and developmentaldisabilities like Down syndrome,
and folks with autism, sensorydisabilities, folks who are deaf
or blind.
We've actually started a prettycool partnership with a local
(13:47):
organization called Bravo BlueRidge Adventures.
Vision Optional is the name oftheir organization.
Really cool organization.
Started out of a teacher in theblind and visually impaired
department in the local publicschool system.
We've been doing a bunch ofhiking and kayaking programs
with them.
We have a tandem cyclingprogram on the books with them
this summer.
(14:07):
We've been doing some teambuilding programs.
So, sensory disabilities andthen have a history of working
with folks with mental andemotional disabilities.
We run regular programming withBoston University Center for
Psychiatric Rehab.
Great chance to get, you know,get folks together that are
going through the process ofkind of mental health therapy,
(14:29):
giving them a chance to just gofor a walk in the woods and
experience what it feels like tobe outside and be together with
other people in a very kind oflow pressure, low stress
environment, taking some time tosit and listen to the birds and
the trees and you know all thethings that come along with that
kind of slower pace, while atthe same time learning some
basic skills that would allowthem to be able to do this
(14:50):
without waypoint.
You know, I don't know if thisis gonna be one of your
questions, but I'm gonna go on alittle bit of a tangent here
because that made me think ofsomething.
Dan often says this.
Dan Minnick, who you quoted asecond ago, often says Adam, our
biggest job is to workourselves out of a job.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
I love that Right.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
The goal, and that story about Boston University
Center for Psychiatric Rehabmade me think about that.
The goal is that we as acommunity and I think we're
moving in this direction, by theway would be more accessible to
people with disabilities.
Right, not only just widerdoors and ramps, but we would
(15:29):
just have an understanding ofthings like, you know, autism
and how autism impacts people'sbehavior and how can I be a
better friend and communitymember to folks with autism.
You know, same with variousother disabilities.
But the hope is that ourcommunity in general, and
definitely the outdoor adventurecommunity, would just be more
understanding and welcoming andopen and team members of those
(15:51):
you know agencies would justknow how to work with them and
would have the equipment inplace to be able to say, yeah,
we can accommodate your needs,right.
(16:12):
So the hope is that eventuallywe get I mean, it's a big goal,
right, yeah, but we get to aplace where we Waypoint isn't
needed.
We've worked ourselves out of ajob.
That's the goal.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
I think it's a great goal.
It seems to me like it's goingto take a little bit of time to
get there and people like youand what you do and what your
organization does is critical inthat in-between time.
Like I don't even well, it'sdefinitely critical, but it
almost seems like it's, it'slike the necessary step.
People like yourself and peoplelike Ryan and people like Dan
they all need thoseorganizations, need to exist so
(16:44):
that you can have thatinvitation.
But one of the things also andyou've mentioned it and it's in
a lot of y'all's collateral andI've been inside your store or
your office so I've seen theequipment, it's the adaptive
equipment that's there.
So there are people, I guess,who have some sensory
disabilities, but then thepeople who really have some
mobile disabilities, you allhave been able to identify
(17:07):
equipment that can be used forthem and you use it in the field
.
It's not light, it's not cheapand it's not.
It requires somebody knowingwhat they're doing with this
equipment and it's somethingthat you all do really, really
well.
And I'm wondering if you cankind of unpack that a little bit
too, because, like, I loveevery picture that I look at.
It's smile, smile, smile andsomebody really loving life.
But you see somebody belayinghere.
(17:27):
It's at an indoor climbingcenter and they're in their
chair and they're belaying.
But there's things that you allare doing for people that
you're just going to take themout on a hike and they're not
mobile.
Why don't you talk about that alittle bit?
Speaker 2 (17:38):
We say access happens with infrastructure and
invitation and theinfrastructure is the equipment.
You know, if an organization oran agency just purchases
equipment and they have it thereat the welcome center and they
say, yeah, we've got it, thisoff-road wheelchair, unless
someone's there to help peopleunderstand how the chair works,
(18:02):
they understand the chairthemselves, they understand how
to help someone transfer fromtheir personal chair into an
off-road chair, they know theproperty or the facility well
enough to know these are theplaces you can go easily
independently and these are theplaces where you're going to
need some assistance.
And then, in those places wherethey need assistance, they know
(18:22):
what that assistance looks like, right?
So yes, there is a lot ofinfrastructure and training and
understanding and knowledgeneeded to be able to make sure
folks are supportedappropriately.
Thankfully, the adventureequipment world there's a lot of
really cool innovation going onout there in terms of, you know
(18:43):
, fully accessible kayaks.
There's a company out of theMidwest called Creating Ability.
Kevin Carr wonderful guy hascreated some really cool
adaptive kayaking equipment thatseat backs in the chairs that
mimic someone's wheelchair seat,different styles of hand
adaptation that help folks beable to grip and use a paddle to
go kayaking All kinds of coolinnovative kayaking equipment
(19:07):
out there, a huge variety ofoff-road wheelchairs, both
self-propelled chairs as well aspassenger chairs.
And yeah, you're right, it'snot cheap.
We do a lot of fundraising tohelp be able to purchase some of
this equipment and make thisequipment available through our
programs and, you know, to folkswho may want to come rent it or
(19:28):
borrow it or that kind of thing.
But there's a lot of really coolinnovative equipment out there
and it's continuing to.
You know, innovate People arecontinuing to innovate.
I mean, even Kevin withCreating Ability often says be
using this equipment and let meknow what's not working.
You know, let me know if youhave a new idea that we haven't
thought about.
People that are on theforefront of this equipment
(19:50):
design are constantly trying totry new things and innovate new
things and it's happeningquickly so that folks,
regardless of their abilitylevel, are able to come.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Oh, that's great.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah, and participate to the extent that they can.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
This program has only been in existence in Western
North Carolina just for the lastcouple of years, right.
So I love to kind of put a pinin that equipment piece, because
I do want to come back to that,because I think that there's
ways that people can getinvolved, and this may be one of
the ways that people can getinvolved.
This program Boston, it comesto North Carolina.
You're the right person, ryanCarlson, also your deputy
(20:29):
director, he was sort of theright person at the right time.
Let's kind of go back in time,just really just the recent past
, the last couple of years, andtalk about you taking that from
Boston then here into WesternNorth Carolina where we have an
immense and endless number ofopportunities to recreate.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah, yeah.
So Waypoint was founded inBoston in 2010.
And again, for some reason,2014 is the date in my mind when
Dan and I started talking aboutand, I think, realizing oh my
goodness, there is somethinghere and we've been able to
(21:06):
build enough of aninfrastructure and kind of a
template for how this is donethat I think we could pick this
thing up and put it in otherplaces around the country, based
on the speed that it grew inNew England and in Boston,
realized there's a need for this, you know, in other places in
the country.
And so, yeah, and just aboutevery year, at some point in the
(21:30):
year, from 2014 on, thisconversation would come up.
You know, could we do itsomewhere else?
What would it look like?
Who do we know?
Where would we do it?
And, having been from this areaof the southeast, I grew up in
Bristol, just over the mountain.
You know, like I said before,every single time this
conversation came up, I was likeI know where we need to do it.
(21:50):
Western North Carolina is thespot.
And in 2022, the Boston Globewrote an article about Waypoint.
There was a lot of response tothat article.
A lot of people reached outcurious about Waypoint, wanting
to support Waypoint, and Dan andI reconnected over that article
.
He actually came down, we went,we did a big backpacking trip
(22:11):
and just had lots ofconversations about gosh.
You know, we always dreamedabout geographical expansion,
talked a lot about it.
You know, during that trip Danwent back to Boston, called me
up a couple of days later andwas like man.
He said we have been able toput a bit of a nest egg aside as
an organization.
We have some funding set asidethat we need to do something
(22:32):
with.
And he said I want us to thinkabout and really kind of push on
this dream that we always hadof geographical expansion.
Would you be interested incoming back on board and helping
launch Waypoint North Carolina?
And the answer was very quicklyyes.
Almost exactly one year ago westarted the process of launching
(22:53):
Waypoint North Carolina.
I told Dan well, if we're goingto do this, I need a partner, I
need someone to work in thiswith me.
And immediately thought of agood buddy of mine, ryan Carlson
.
And Ryan comes with 25 plusyears of experience designing
and leading and runningadventure programs, big
expedition programs around theworld, and just has a deep
(23:15):
understanding of what it meansto not only put together a safe
and effective adventure program,but effective in the sense that
has a deep understanding of howdo we use adventure as a way to
bring about that aha moment,that learning and that that kind
of personal growth, and how dowe custom design and bring those
(23:38):
two things together.
Ryan has that deepunderstanding and so pretty
quickly pulled him in andfortunately he was in a moment
of transition and so the timingwas right for him and so super
glad to have him.
And then we just recently hiredour first full-time program
coordinator, shelby Hampton.
Shelby comes with lots ofexperience, both in the public
(23:58):
school system and in thehealthcare setting, as a CTRS, a
certified therapeuticrecreation specialist, so slowly
starting to build what Ibelieve is a super skilled and
effective team for seeing thismission continue to grow here in
Western North Carolina.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Let's talk a little bit about some of the programs
that you have held, some of thetypes of activities and, even if
you haven't held an activitywithin this particular and I
know you do hiking and bikingand you do kayaking and climbing
but some of the others that youdo I love to hear about some of
the first experiences, and youtalked about Bravo, which is
amazing, and Bravo has been onthe show.
I loved, absolutely love,having them here too.
(24:33):
So, yeah, I just love to hear alittle bit about what the last
year has been like and some ofthe programs that you've done.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
So Waypoint runs programs in two formats open
enrollment programs and customgroup programs.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
So open enrollment programs are dates that we put
on the calendar and then we doour own advertising or maybe in
partnership with othercollaborators, we'll advertise
these programs.
Folks can go right on ourwebsite.
They can click on a date and aprogram type that they want to
sign up for and they sign up andso you end up getting on those
open enrollment programs, thiskind of mixed bag and mixed
(25:07):
group of people with and withoutdisabilities going out on an
adventure together.
Okay, super fun.
Custom group programs arepartnerships with already intact
groups, so school, specialeducation, classrooms or
departments, social serviceagencies that are serving folks
with disabilities, and thosetypes of things where we
(25:28):
actually go in and identifytheir goals.
What do they want to get out ofthis?
Right, it's the whole beginwith the end in mind.
Why adventure?
Why kayaking, rock climbing,hiking, why do you feel like you
want to bring your group onthese experiences?
What do you want to get out ofthis?
And then we will go back and wewill design a program
(25:48):
specifically for that group.
Both you know designing in, youknow what type of equipment
might be needed, where we mighthost the program, what adventure
type is going to be mosteffective for bringing out those
goals and then we kind of putall of that together in a very
intentional way to hopefullybring about that goal.
One example, and maybe to keepanswering your question a little
(26:11):
bit we just recently partneredwith IC Imagine Charter School.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Oh, very cool.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
They have occupational track, special
education class in the highschool and we had connected with
them.
They reached out, we had aphone call and they said we want
to go on an indoor kayakingprogram, which is one of the
program types that we offer.
Okay, we want to go on anindoor kayaking program, which
is one of the program types thatwe offer.
Okay.
And we're like, okay, great,you know, let's talk a little
bit more.
Tell us more about yourstudents.
What are you hoping to get outof this?
(26:38):
Like you know, some groups,some custom groups, will say we
just want to go have fun.
That's really the big goal forus.
Some groups say we want ourstudents or clients, or whoever
it is, to understand what itmeans to work together better or
to be kind to one another, orwhat it means to persevere
through hard tasks and come outon the other side Whether we
(27:00):
complete we're able to completethat task or not.
What does that feel like?
Right?
So we ask all these questionsand say what are you really
trying to get out of this?
And the teacher we were talkingto she's like we want to do an
indoor kayaking program.
I said, okay, great, so we got.
We started, you know, havingthat deeper conversation and it
(27:20):
turned out she really wantedthem to learn how to work
together better.
This idea of teamwork wasreally the theme that kept
coming out and Ryan veryintuitively and quickly said
this is that's great.
You know, indoor kayaking is somuch fun.
If you really want to bring abring out this idea of teamwork
and if you want that to be whatthe students walk away with, we
need to go rock climbing.
And so we ended up.
She was like the more we talkedabout it, she's like yeah, that
(27:41):
sounds great.
So we have this really funlittle partnership with the
Riveter Climbing Gym so we wereable to coordinate with them to
get gym space during the day andwe designed this whole
adventure day using the programtype or adventure type of indoor
rock climbing to bring aboutthis theme of teamwork and what
(28:01):
does it mean to work togetherwith someone else.
So that's that kind of customdesigned model, I guess, is.
You know, different adventuretypes.
That Waypoint runs.
We run adaptive hiking programs.
So, as we talked about before,we have a variety of different
off-road, different styles ofoff-road wheelchair to help
folks with physical disabilities.
You know, participate in theadventure of hiking.
(28:23):
We go indoor and outdoor rockclimbing.
So we use climbing gyms for theindoor climbing programs and
then a variety of otherlocations here in western North
Carolina to go outdoor rockclimbing.
We do team building and ropescourse programs.
So if you've ever been on ateam building where it's kind of
a contrived group initiative,to talk about working together
better or some of those socialand character themes.
(28:46):
So we have partnerships withboth Montreat College and Warren
Wilson College to utilize theirropes course and team building
spaces.
You do low and high ropescourses, low and high ropes
courses, yep, and much of theadaptive equipment that we would
use to help folks with physicaldisabilities go rock climbing
is exactly what we use on thosehigh ropes course programs for
(29:06):
them to be able to participatein that adventure.
We use local pools toparticipate in that adventure.
We use local pools, we takeboats into pools and we teach
basic skills of kayaking and wetalk about some of those social
and character themes, if that'sone of the things that the group
is wanting to focus on.
Otherwise, we're more focusedon just the adventure itself and
also that indoor rock climbingexperience is a great kind of
controlled environment for folksto get a sense of what it feels
(29:29):
like to get in a boat, get in aboat in the water, float, maybe
even practice.
What's it going to feel likewhen I flip over and how do I
get out?
And, you know, flip back to thetop in hopes that they feel a
bit more comfortable to be ableto go out on.
Oh, and we're in the process ofbuilding a tandem cycling
(29:49):
program.
That's so cool in the process ofbuilding a tandem cycling
program.
That's so cool, yeah.
So again, kind of continuingthat theme of learning happens
at the intersection of challengeand support.
So much of kind of thefoundational belief of Waypoint
is that adventure is better whenit's shared with other people,
and we really push on this ideaof community building and
(30:11):
working together.
And if we're going to go onthis adventure, we're going to
do it together.
Tandem cycling is one of theways that we hope to be able to
do that.
So not necessarily givingsomeone their own bike even
though going on a solo bike witha group of people is also still
a way of building community.
There's something differentabout getting on a bike with
someone else and workingtogether to make that bike stay
(30:33):
upright number one and go whereyou want it to go, and you're
kind of you're attached together, so you get to know each other
a little bit more, right.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
And you get to learn a little bit about each other's
lives and talk a little bitabout the fun of just going on a
bike ride and you know whatwe're getting out of that.
But you're, you're attachedtogether, and so that's kind of
the the reason we're pushing togrow this tandem cycling program
.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
I love that and I guess in that too you also have
from the participants levelthere's a level of sort of
confidence and security that,okay, there is somebody that's
on here, it's not just me I cansort of relax a little.
Not completely, well, I guessyou can relax and just enjoy the
experience and not stress aboutwhether or not I'm falling over
or not.
But yeah, that adds a wholenother element that I didn't
even think of.
I'm thinking of the okay we canpropel and go forward, but it's
(31:19):
the whole idea of balance andyeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
We talk about this a lot and we have a.
We also have a training that weoffer to organizations and
agencies.
We've given several timeslocally, call it our inclusion
and access training, but there'skind of three components that
we believe go into all ofWaypoint's programs and we
unpack these in this trainingbut we call it our CAP sauce
C-A-P, community, access andpreparation.
(31:47):
And so community is trained,volunteers and skilled staff
help create a community ofbelonging, and we believe people
perform to their potential whenthey know they belong right.
So that's that community piece.
Access is both the physical andthe cognitive supports that
need to be in place for folks tobe able to participate to the
(32:10):
fullest.
And then preparation is how dowe define preparation?
Preparation is people performto their potential when they're
mentally and emotionallyprepared.
And so the example I'll givesometimes is if you imagine
yourself signing up for asurfing lesson and you go to the
beach and the waves are hugeand you walk out there and the
(32:33):
instructor's like here's yourwetsuit, here's your board suit
up, we're going out in fiveminutes.
What's your, what's yourthought?
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Fear.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Fear.
How do I get my money back?
I'm not doing this Right.
Versus scenario number two youshow up and he says hey, welcome
, glad you're here.
This is your wetsuit and yourboard.
We're going to be using thatlater.
We're going to spend the next45 minutes right here on the
beach.
I'm going to show youeverything you need to know.
We're going to get you fullyprepared to be able to go out
(33:02):
and paddle out into those wavesand, as a matter of fact, we're
watching those waves prettyclosely and we think they're
supposed to die down.
But if they don't, we're goingto go right around the corner
and we're going to paddle in theharbor in a much calmer.
You know we're going to.
We're going to practicepaddling our board in a much
calmer area before we actuallygo out into the surf break.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Cool.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Right, you feel a lot differently about stepping into
that experience, right?
I think tandem cycling havingthat person with them it's the
same with like a tandem kayak,like a tandem kayak.
Having another person in a boatwith you that is competent and
trained and ready to supportwhatever needs you might have,
helps you feel more kind ofmentally and emotionally
prepared and ready to actuallystep into that adventure.
(33:41):
That's another reason that wereally want to push on growing
this tandem cycling program isbecause we think it's a deeper
invitation we think it's adeeper invitation.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Wow, yeah, no doubt, yeah, oh, that's good.
Okay, so amazing programs andamazing people.
It doesn't come without a cost,though, and I'm sure that
there's ways that people couldget involved.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
My two easy ways for folks to get involved.
Financially, 80% of our revenuecomes from donors, whether that
be individual donors, corporatesupport or foundation support.
Foundation giving, our programprices or program fees cover
about 20 to 25% of what itactually costs us to run these
(34:24):
experiences and these adventures.
And then the other thing isvolunteers.
We don't run solely on avolunteer model.
We do have at least two,sometimes three, full-time paid
trained staff who are actuallyrunning the program, and then
those two or three folks aresupported by volunteers,
(34:45):
sometimes trained volunteers,sometimes new volunteers.
The biggest need we have fromvolunteers is a smiling face,
someone to come and just help usagain create that sense of
community.
We're glad you're here.
How can I help you?
You and I are going to get topaddle in a boat together today.
It's going to be so much fun.
We've got instructors here tohelp us make sure where our boat
(35:07):
goes straight to.
You know, just having peoplethat are willing and interested
to just come jump in socially isis one of the biggest needs
that we have.
Of course, of course, if someonehas, if they are a rock climber
or they are a hiker or they area kayaker and they already
bring those skills, they'll usethem on our programs and we need
(35:28):
them on our programs.
But we don't want peoplefeeling like I don't know how to
do all that stuff to be abarrier, because our real need
is just come be a part of thegroup.
Come help us create communityand create a sense of belonging
and make people feel comfortableand glad that we're there.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
That's a perfect segue actually into a wonderful
program that you all are workingon with the North Carolina
State Parks.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
And you not only have volunteers, but you have the
trained staff, people who arethere that are helping people
who come along to have theseexperiences that we're talking
about as they enjoy the NorthCarolina State Parks.
This is a really big deal.
I mean a really big deal.
I mean a really big deal, and Ithink one of the things you all
has shared a quote with me fromVictor Hugo there's nothing
(36:14):
more powerful as an idea whosetime has come, and if there was
ever a program that seems to bedefinitive of this, it's that.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
And to me it sums up exactly what we're experiencing
right now with Waypoint.
I mean, we've been here forexactly a year in Western North
Carolina and our calendar isalready pretty much full.
I mean, looking into the fall,we have some space for some new
groups, but not much, and that'sbecause everybody wants to
(36:42):
experience these wonderfulrivers, lakes, trails, rocks
that we have here in WesternNorth Carolina, and they should
be experiencing that stuff.
Waypoint has taken off in a waythat we have here in Western
North Carolina and they shouldbe experiencing that stuff.
Waypoint has taken off in a waythat we didn't quite expect.
One example of that is thisNorth Carolina State Parks
Partnership, and I'll back up alittle bit too, mike, and say
entities like the North CarolinaState Parks are now saying, yep
(37:05):
, we get it.
We need to open our doors widerfor some of these marginalized
communities and folks thathaven't historically had access
to our parks and not just accessbut haven't had that invitation
, and so one of the ways thatthey're doing that is by
partnering with Waypoint.
So we're doing four trainingsfor North Carolina State Park
(37:27):
ranger, superintendents, staff,state park rangers,
superintendents, staff.
And then we're doing 13,question mark, 13 adventure
programs for the North Carolinastate parks.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
So eight kayaking programs split between Lake
James and Lake Norman.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
A couple adaptive rock climbing programs happening
at a couple of the parks andthen some hiking programs in the
fall happening at some of theparks.
That press release hasn't quitegone out as we're sitting here
right now, but it will be.
They're building the skillset intheir team internally right
through these trainings thatthey're wanting us to do and
(38:04):
that we're doing.
And then they're bringingWaypoint in to help work
alongside them, to market to thelarger community to say, not
only are we ready for you whenyou show up, but we want you to
come on these days and we'regoing to actually take you on an
experience, and so there'll bea mix of Waypoint staff,
waypoint volunteers and statepark ranger, superintendents,
(38:26):
staff on these programs with us.
So it's a huge move for theNorth Carolina State Parks and
I'm super thankful to be a partof it, super excited to be a
part of seeing not only seeingpeople with disabilities get
access to the North CarolinaState Parks or more North
Carolina State Parks, but seeingthat culture begin to change a
(38:48):
little bit, in that peoplerecognize that everybody needs
access to these things, and sowe've got to do our part to
figure out how to make thathappen, and the fact that the
North Carolina State Parks isleading that conversation is a
big deal.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
That is incredible.
Did they come to you?
Did you go to them?
How did that relationshiphappen?
Speaker 2 (39:04):
You know where it happened was the Outdoor Economy
Conference.
Oh, no way.
Yeah, okay, so we got a chanceto meet Reed Wilson.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Oh, no way, yeah, okay, so we got a chance to meet
Reed Wilson and um.
Sean McElhone is the.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
West district superintendent.
Yeah, just phone calls startedhappening and emails started
happening, and the other thingwas this isn't new for us.
So Waypoint has a really deeppartnership with um, the
Massachusetts DCR department ofconservationreation, so the
Massachusetts State Parks, andso when Sean and Reed and I met
(39:36):
at Outdoor Economy Conference, Iwas quickly able to say, hey,
listen, we're already doing thisin Massachusetts in partnership
with the state agency.
I think we could replicate thatdown here if y'all are
interested.
And they both were like let'skeep the conversation going.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
I love that.
I love that.
Yeah, reed's an amazingindividual, I mean just amazing
human being.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
He's so incredible.
I had the pleasure of havinghim actually on the show a
couple of years ago at theOutdoor Economy Conference as we
recorded it, and he's justhumble.
He is excited about everybodygetting into the outdoors and
obviously he's excited about theoutdoors in general, being a
member of think of the SierraClub and others.
Yeah, he's very much involved.
What was the reception likefrom the state parks rangers and
(40:19):
superintendents and staff?
Was this something sort of newfor them?
Did they have to be sold onthis idea?
Were they just all in from thevery beginning?
What were those trainings like?
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Yeah, good question.
So so far we've done two of ourclassroom trainings.
We call it our inclusion andaccess training.
It's about a two and a halfhour, you know, roughly two to
two and a half hour trainingaround disability history.
And you know, we even get intosome real specific strategies
that we use to help folks withintellectual and developmental
(40:51):
disabilities get involved.
And how do we design ourprogramming, you know, in a way
that is in line with universaldesign for learning and some
things like that.
So it's very much aclassroom-based training.
And then we'll have so we'vedone two of those and then we'll
have two more skills-focusedtrainings for a team of folks
from the parks an adaptivekayaking training and an
(41:13):
adaptive rock climbing training.
That'll happen.
That rock climbing trainingwill happen in the fall 35 plus
rangers and superintendents andpark staff have come through
those two classroom sessions andMike, the last one, was
supposed to be again.
it's a two to two and a halfhour training.
It was almost four hours.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Questions.
Oh man, they were so engaged.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Everybody's so excited.
The responses we've gotten onour evaluation afterwards was
we're so glad this is happening.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
So they, you know, I don't know, you know in terms of
Sean's job for you know, kindof communicating this to his
teams and saying, hey, this iswhat's happening.
I don't know what that's beenlike, but from our perspective,
everybody's in, they're all in.
What can we do?
What gates do you need?
Access into?
The superintendent at Crowder'sMountain was even like hey, I
(42:07):
can meet you there with aside-by-side and we can help
shuttle folks up on aside-by-side, if that'd make it
more accessible.
Right, so they've.
They've been rolling out thered carpet.
So far it's.
It's been really awesome to bea part of.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
But is this a model that's sort of catching fire
across the country right now, Doyou know?
Or is this happening in a fewselect places?
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Yeah, I you know with state parks, I know big federal
agencies.
I mean the work that Catalystis doing in partnership with the
Great Smoky.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Mountains.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
National Park is a great example of national
federal agencies picking up onthis need for accessibility.
There's some organizations outwest that have deep partnerships
with national forests andnational parks out there.
But yeah, I do think we'reseeing more and more federal
(42:56):
agencies, land managers, folkssaying we need to do more, you
know, in terms of again theinfrastructure, thinking about
trail building.
I mean, g5 is a perfect exampleof federal agency coming
together with a nonprofitorganization and working
together to kind of move theneedle on accessibility into the
(43:17):
national forest down there.
So I do think it's happeningmore.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
That's great to hear, yeah, and like you said you,
hope, at some point you'll justwork yourself out of a job and
it becomes the norm, and it'snot this thing that we're
talking about.
It's more about we'recelebrating it as opposed to
trying to expose people to it.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Yeah, it's an ambitious goal, but I do.
The more we give thesetrainings, the more we talk
through it with people, the moreI see people becoming more
comfortable with the idea, andso much of it is rooted in the
unknown.
Historically, people withdisabilities haven't been
involved and included in ourkind of general population
(43:53):
general community.
I mean, you saw it, I saw itgrowing up in the public school
system.
Right, there was the special eddepartment.
It was over this, like thosekids over there, right right
more and more like realinclusion is happening at a
younger age and moving through.
I do think, and as we continueto run some of these programs I
mean this state park I'll be soexcited to see once we get
(44:15):
through this year and more andmore people have seen people
with disabilities using thoseparks paddling in kayaks, going
rock climbing, going hiking itstarts to change our mindset
about what people are capable ofdoing, and not just on big
outdoor adventures but ineveryday life.
You know like you're walkingdown the street one day after
(44:36):
coming on a waypoint program andseeing or even being in the
climbing gym is this is anexample I'll often use, even if
someone's not directly involvedin being a part of the waypoint
program, volunteering or thatkind of thing.
Right, maybe they're just inthe climbing gym climbing and
they see someone wheel in intheir power chair and they see
them get in a harness and theysee them go climb.
Oh my goodness, I never thoughtthat was possible.
(44:58):
Well, that's pretty cool.
Well then, when they're walkingdown the street and they see
someone similar or maybe eventhat same person wheeling up the
street in their power chair,they look at them differently
right so there is a societal andcultural change that can happen
just by giving entrance intothese activities and spaces.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
Well said and.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
I think long term the needle will move.
We will become more comfortablewith the idea and the thought
of what's the part that I playnow and kind of looking for my
neighbor that I know may have adisability and may not be
participating in some of thesame activities that I find joy
from.
I'm going to go invite him.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
You know, because he can do it.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Yeah Well, I mean this really resonates with me
because not too long ago my sonand I were mountain biking at
Canuga Ride, canuga and Catalystwas out there and there were a
number of people that were outthere on and I'm probably going
to use the proper name of theirbikes, but it was like a, it was
a four-wheeler bike and theywere hand crank or hand pedaled,
and not all of them, they wereall various types of
(46:05):
disabilities, mobilitydisabilities, I guess, and it I
mean it just blew me away whenI'm huffing and puffing, when I
got up to the top and Iliterally had to lay down and
just let my heart rate come backdown to normal and you start to
see one person after the otherjust coming up and for me it
just sat.
That whole day was greatbecause I was with my son number
one but watching them was thehuge part of the joy for me for
(46:30):
that day.
And then the third part was amountain biking.
So it was all about connectionsof people and it was about
watching them sort of continuingto come up.
And you know, I'll never forgetthis one bumper, or the one
sticker on the back of a guy'sbike.
It says you know, embrace thesuck, you know is kind of what
it said, but they were going forit.
And it made such an impressionon me that here you are, you
know, a couple of years laterand still thinking about and
(46:51):
talking about that kind of anexperience.
And so it's like what you saythe more that you see this in
the outdoors, the more that yousee this becomes mainstream, it
becomes less of specialprogramming, it becomes this is
just that they get.
They get a chance to do this,just like I do.
And again, I keep going back tothe smiles on the faces on
every single one of thesepictures that I look at, and
(47:13):
that's the same smile that wehave when we do it.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
Yeah, totally, totally, yeah In in the training
.
One of the things we lead withis and this is something we try
to impress on all of our teammembers, both volunteers and
full-time is we're not workingwith disabilities, we're working
with people.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Love that.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
Right.
So if we can get our minds tokind of cross that threshold of
like, wait a minute, this isjust.
It's just a person approachlife a little bit differently
than me, but I just need to getto know them as an individual
that's it and as a person, andthey can do as much and and
anything I can do yeah you know,with a little bit of help, uh,
potentially, and uh, they wantto do those things.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Yes, you know so.
One of your students that waspart of Bravo Layla, was my
wife's student way back when,when she was in like the first
or second grade and her motherwas very much that very same way
of listen.
I want her to do the thingsthat normal people are doing,
and so don't baby her.
I want you guys to treat herjust like you're going to treat
(48:12):
me no-transcript, talking abouttheir experiences.
(48:38):
And it was, you know, it wasjust her heart and it was her
mind and it was her joyfulnessand her playfulness, that just
it just made you forget abouteverything else.
And she's just a human, justlike we are, and that's where we
need to get to that.
At least that's what I hear yousaying.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Yes, yeah, layla is a high school girl.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
High school girl yeah , who just wants to do Wise
beyond her years Exactly.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Yes, she's amazing, she is.
She's actually one of the Bravoparticipants that have come on
our programs that we've beentalking about.
How can we help her progress inher skills?
She really took to the indoorkayaking program and being in
those small whitewater boats andwe've had some conversations
just internally recently abouthow could we push Layla to start
moving towards getting on theFrench Broad and playing around
(49:19):
with some whitewater kayaking.
Anyway, that's a whole notherside conversation.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
Don't challenge her with a good time, that's right.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Exactly In the disability advocacy world, mike.
What you're talking about isthe dignity of risk.
People with disabilities anddisability advocates say I want
the right to fail.
Don't pad and protect my wholelife, like, give me the chance
to try something that I mightnot succeed at, it's okay, just
(49:45):
like you get a chance toparticipate in things that you
might not succeed at.
That's where the learninghappens.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
That's where I grow, so know.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
So yeah, dignity of risk.
We need to give everybody thedignity of risk.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Oh, that's so well said.
Well, it is so hard for me tobelieve that we've literally
been here for an hour, if youcan believe that, and I know the
last time that we were togetherwe probably talked for the same
amount of time and could havekept on going, and we could keep
on going today, but I guess atsome point we have to draw this
to a close.
So I really thank you for thework that you all are doing.
So the things you're doing aregreat.
(50:17):
Again, it'swaypointadventureorg right.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
That's it.
Yeah, and when you go therethere'll be two buttons
Massachusetts and North Carolina.
Okay, If you want to knowwhat's going on in Massachusetts
or get involved there, youclick the Massachusetts button.
But if you want to get involvedwith us here in North Carolina,
click the North Carolina button.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
All right, and you are happy to have people get
involved financially with theirtime volunteering, creating
those smiles, whatever it may be.
You would definitely invitethose sorts of people to come
alongside you all and join youin your forces.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
Yes, Participate, volunteer and donate that's what
you'll see when you go on thewebsite.
Those are kind of the threecalls.
To action is come join us on aprogram as a participant or a
volunteer and if you want to seethis work continue, make a big
donation.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
You heard it here first Make a big donation.
Yeah, we definitely want to seethat continue.
Well, the work that you'redoing is noble work.
It's just such good work and Ilove the fact that, even though
you got out of it at one point,you're back into it and you
really realize that this is whatI was made to do, and you're
living out of that right now.
So you're living out of theoverflow.
So it's definitely evidentGreat heart, love your mission,
(51:20):
love everything about what y'allare doing, and I just wish
y'all the absolute most and bestof luck.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
Thanks, mike, you got to come join us on a program
too.
Speaker 1 (51:26):
I will do it.
Thanks, buddy.
It was an absolute pleasure tosit down with Adam.
His insights into theincredible mission of making
outdoor experiences accessibleto individuals with disabilities
were truly inspiring.
From the latest in adaptiveadventure equipment to the
expansive efforts in WesternNorth Carolina, we hope you've
gained a deeper understanding ofhow Waypoint Adventure is
(51:48):
revolutionizing inclusivity andoutdoor activities is
revolutionizing inclusivity andoutdoor activities.
The stories of collaborationwith local schools, social
service agencies and theexciting North Carolina State
Parks Partnership showcase theimpact of their customized
adventures, fostering strongcommunities and making a real
difference.
If you're as moved by WaypointAdventures' mission as we are,
(52:09):
consider getting involved.
Whether through participation,volunteering or donations, your
support can help further theircause and bring the joy of
outdoor adventures to everyone.
Visit waypointadventureorg formore information.
That's going to do it for thisepisode.
I really hope you enjoyed it.
If you did, please subscribe,rate and leave us a review.
Your feedback helps us continueto bring you stories of how
(52:31):
these mountains and the outdoorsinfluence and shape our lives.
Join me on Instagram andFacebook and drop me a line at
mike at explorationlocalcom ifyou ever have a suggestion for a
future episode or if you justwant to say hello.
As always, I encourage you towander far but explore local.
And until we meet again, let'schampion a world where everyone
(52:52):
can experience thetransformative joy of outdoor
adventures.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
Thank you.
In this episode, I sit down with Adam Combs,
co-founder of Waypoint Adventureand director of Waypoint
Adventure, north Carolina.
Adam reveals the incrediblemission behind Waypoint
Adventure, a groundbreakingorganization dedicated to making
outdoor experiences accessibleto individuals with disabilities
.
We talk about the cutting-edgeworld of adaptive adventure
equipment and programs that makeinclusivity in outdoor
(00:22):
activities a reality, fromspecialized off-road wheelchairs
to innovative kayaks.
We'll explore the essentialinfrastructure and training
required to utilize these toolseffectively.
Adam also shares the excitingexpansion of Waypoint Adventure
into Western North Carolina, aregion brimming with
opportunities for inclusiverecreation, and we learned about
(00:42):
the organization'scollaborative efforts with local
schools, social serviceagencies and North Carolina
State Parks to design customizedadventures that meet specific
group needs and promotecommunity building.
Adam's passion shines as hetalks about fostering a more
inclusive community bynormalizing the participation of
individuals with disabilitiesin activities like rock climbing
(01:03):
, hiking and mountain biking.
Find out how you can supportWaypoint Adventure's noble
mission through participation,volunteering or donations.
I'll see you on the other side.
You're listening to ExplorationLocal, a podcast designed to
explore and celebrate the peopleand places that make the Blue
(01:26):
Ridge and Southern AppalachianMountains special and unique.
My name is Mike Andrus, thehost of Exploration Local.
Join us on our journey toexplore these mountains and
discover how they fuel thespirit of adventure.
We encourage you to wander far,but explore local, let's go.
Well, I'm excited to have AdamCombs in the studio with me
(01:47):
today.
He is the co-founder ofWaypoint Adventure and he's the
director of Waypoint AdventureNorth Carolina.
Adam, thanks so much fordropping into the studio.
I cannot wait to unpack thisconversation today.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Thanks for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
You know we were talking a little bit before we
started recording earlier thatour guests, the people who
listen to this podcast, theyknow that we talk a lot about
the benefits that can be derivedfrom being in the outdoors, be
it the physical benefits, theemotional benefits, the mental
benefits, all of those kind ofbenefits people get.
And I was reading in yourinformation one of the founders
(02:24):
and we'll kind of unpack this alittle bit, but Dan Minnick, who
was also the other co-founderof Waypoint Adventure he said
this and I really thought thiswas pretty profound If people
never experience genuinechallenge and see themselves
successfully overcoming it,they're less likely to challenge
themselves and more likely toavoid challenging situations.
The result is a missedopportunity to grow.
(02:47):
And, adam, I know that I'mpreaching to the choir with you,
but if I could ever think of apopulation that really needed
these types of opportunities togrow, it's the demographic that
you serve, that you all serve atWaypoint Adventure, and I love
to just kind of start there alittle bit.
What is Waypoint Adventure?
What is it that you all do atWaypoint Adventure?
And I love to just kind ofstart there a little bit.
What is Waypoint Adventure?
What is it that you all do.
(03:07):
How did you get involved withit?
And then there's so much morefor us to unpack.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Mike, I'll usually start this conversation with our
mission statement.
Waypoint's mission is tochallenge people with
disabilities to discover theirpurpose, talents and strengths
through the transforming powerof adventure.
That's the mission statementand the two parts that I'll
usually call out in that numberone challenging people with
disabilities.
So Waypoint runs adventureprograms for people with a wide
(03:33):
range of disabilities physical,intellectual and developmental,
social, emotional.
Regardless of the level ofsomeone's disability, we want to
say yes.
We want to barring some medicalcondition or a doctor saying
this isn't safe, or, you know,parents saying this isn't safe,
or the individual saying I'm notinterested in taking that risk.
We want to say yes to them, sowide you know.
(03:56):
Serving folks with a wide rangeof disabilities is the first
thing, and then the second thingis discovering purpose, talents
and strengths.
Mike, I mean I don't.
We haven't talked too muchabout our personal story.
I haven't heard your personalstory, but for me it's been
through adventure.
It's been through, you know,pushing myself, testing my
(04:16):
limits, challenging myself inthe outdoors, rock climbing
programs, multi-day backpackingtrips, you know those kinds of
things that that have taught mea lot about myself.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Starting from a very young age.
You know, and I do genuinelybelieve that adventure,
especially when done within asupportive community of people,
teaches us about ourselves.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
So true.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
We often talk about.
It's at the intersection ofchallenge and support is where
learning really happens.
So if we can provide theappropriate amount of whether it
be physical support,intellectual and developmental
support, a way of communicatingwhere folks understand it well
(05:02):
and a way of providingopportunities for people to
communicate with us so that weunderstand them, whether it be
identifying the exact rightlocation for a particular
individual or a group, you know,those are some of the examples
of specific ways that we provideand kind of surround folks with
a level of support and makethem feel like, okay, maybe I
(05:22):
can actually engage in thischallenging activity.
And we believe when that levelof support is put in place,
folks are more apt and morewilling to challenge themselves
and it's through that challengethat they walk away with that
kind of either that aha momentthat they've had themselves, or
whether it's us spending sometime asking the right questions
(05:43):
at the end to say, what did youget out of this?
Like, yes, it was fun, we allhad a blast, but we believe
there's something deeper thathappened with you today, and so
if you can help identify whatthat is, or if you can identify
what that is, let's get at thata little bit.
What is something that youexperienced today that you can
take back into your everydaylife?
You know things like confidenceand self-esteem and a better
(06:07):
understanding of what it meansto work as part of a team.
We believe those experiencesand that learning happens on
these adventures, and now peoplewalk away from our programs
being able to hopefully applysome of that back into their
everyday life.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Oh, that's amazing.
I wonder if we can sort of talka little bit about where you
all actually got started.
This came out of an.
It was sort of an offshoot ofsomething that you were doing up
in the Northeast, and I'd loveto kind of talk about that a
little bit.
How did all this get started?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
My undergraduate degree is in outdoor education
from Montreat College right herein Black Mountain.
Pretty soon after that I endedup at an organization in
Tennessee, over in theTri-Cities area in Bluff City,
specifically called RiverswayOutdoor Adventure Center.
And Riversway Outdoor AdventureCenter at that point in time
ran adventure programs that wereaccessible to people with
(06:56):
disabilities, and that was thefirst time I had the chance to
work alongside this community ofpeople.
To work alongside thiscommunity of people, and
probably the first time I Idon't know, not the first time,
but I don't know.
It just was one of those jobswhere it just kind of clicked.
Oh, my goodness, there's a real.
There's real impact happeninghere and we had formed a
(07:18):
partnership with the Tri-CitiesPublic School System.
When we were running, we calledit Adventure Incentive and if
students were meeting certainmarkers behavioral markers they
were bringing their homeworkback to school, their truancy
rates were going down, they wereactually showing up to school,
things of that nature werehappening then they would earn
these big adventure trips.
(07:39):
Okay, and it worked.
I mean, truancy rates weredeclining, students' grades were
going up, they were showingbetter behavior in the classroom
and out of the classroom.
It was working, and for me thatwas this aha moment of oh my
goodness, we can merge thisexperiential learning,
experiential education model,with a public school system or
(08:00):
this nonprofit with a publicschool system, bringing in a
unique program and it bringabout good results.
And so I ended up going back toget my master's in special
education from Appalachian StateUniversity and my hope was I
want my own classroom.
I want to be able to do, I wantto build deep relationships
with one classroom of studentsand be able to use some of these
(08:24):
experiential learning models inthe classroom.
And that was 2006 to 2008.
And so that was right when, ifyou're familiar with, the
federal mandate of no Child LeftBehind was being mandated on
schools and I was watching as Iwas doing my research work.
I was watching teachers coveredup in paperwork trying to do
(08:46):
all this reporting.
It wasn't.
It wasn't.
That program wasn't necessarilyrolled out super well and was
difficult to implement.
And I'm watching teacherscovered up in paperwork and I'm
like that's not what I want todo.
That's not why I got into this.
And so I kind of put the brakeson and did a scan of the
country.
Who else out there is usingadventure programming, working
with students in the specialeducation population in hopes of
(09:08):
bringing about good, you know,improved social and character
skills.
And I came across anorganization called Outdoor
Explorations, ended up getting ajob up there, moved to Boston
in 2008 and got started rightaway, you know, partnering with
the Boston Public Schoolsrunning adventure programs for
their special educationdepartments.
A little bit of time goes by2009,.
(09:31):
First quarter of 2009.
We walked into the office oneday and executive director sat
us down and said well, we'velost funding and we're closing
down.
It really felt like kind of agut punch because our team had
really just started ramping upand we're making these great
relationships and, you know,we're seeing a lot of fruit from
the programming we weredeveloping.
(09:53):
Walked out of the office thatday and the guy I was working
most closely with was DanMinnick.
We were kind of boots on theground designing and running
programs and he looked at me.
He's like dude, this can't end,got to keep doing it.
We got to keep this going andthat organization at that time
had 20 years of history but theywere wrestling the downturn in
(10:13):
the economy in 2008 and variousother things, Right.
So we, very naively in our earlyto mid twenties, started a
nonprofit.
So Waypoint was founded in 2010.
On the backs of outdoorexplorations and the history
that that organization had.
We still I mean, if Dan wassitting here, he'd say this too
(10:34):
we still very much feel likewe're stumbling through this.
You know we don't really knowexactly what we're doing, but
we're trying our best right,you're passionate.
And we're surrounding ourselves,trying to surround ourselves
with people that know and thatwe can ask questions of and can
help work alongside us to helpkeep pushing this ball forward.
But, mike, there's a need forthis Again.
(10:54):
Going back to my story, I havepersonally been impacted and, to
this day, when I need to thinkclearly about something, what do
I do?
I go for a long hike or I geton my mountain bike and I just
ride right Like it's therapeutic.
It helps me decompress, ithelps me understand, you know,
(11:20):
and be able to unpack certainthings that are going on in life
.
It helps me understand otherpeople better.
It builds deeper bonds, as wedo, you know.
Experience these adventurestogether.
Everybody needs to experiencethat yeah.
And so the sad part is there isa large population of people,
and some would say the largestminority in the world, is often
left out of experiences likethis because of a lack of access
(11:41):
, whether it be physical access,intellectual access, lack of
invitation.
I know a lot of people in thisspace right now are talking
about the importance of invitingpeople, even though for many
folks there isn't any sort ofextreme adaptation that needs to
happen.
They just need someone to sayhey, come on, I'm going to take
you out, we're going to go andyou're going to get a chance to
(12:03):
experience something like you'venever experienced before.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
You know Well it's amazing because you talk about I
mean you just kind of hit on itwhen you talked about that
there's a large population thatcan't, and those numbers, when I
read them, were pretty powerful.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I actually have the stats right here in front of me
16% in the world, one in six.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
In the US it's 27% one in four people have a
disability and in North Carolinait's 29%.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
It's that high One in three, wow, and that's a broad
spectrum right, if you thinkabout the spectrum of people
with disabilities physical,intellectual, social, emotional.
There's a lot of more extreme,severe disabilities and some not
so much, but people who havebeen identified as having a
disability 29% one in three inthe state of North Carolina.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Wow, yeah, wow, just real quick, at a high level.
What are the types ofdisabilities that you all are
working with?
Because it's not, and it'spretty, I mean, it's pretty wide
breadth of disabilities.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah, very wide breadth.
So you know, physicaldisabilities like spinal cord
injuries, folks with varyinglevels of cerebral palsy, those
types of things, any kind ofcondition that would cause
someone to need some sort ofmobility device, assistive
device, strokes we had a man ona hike recently that just had a
stroke and was able to walk alittle bit.
(13:25):
We took him on a hike out atChimney Rock, actually in
partnership with Chimney RockState Park.
Yeah, so folks with varyinglevels of physical disability,
intellectual and developmentaldisabilities like Down syndrome,
and folks with autism, sensorydisabilities, folks who are deaf
or blind.
We've actually started a prettycool partnership with a local
(13:47):
organization called Bravo BlueRidge Adventures.
Vision Optional is the name oftheir organization.
Really cool organization.
Started out of a teacher in theblind and visually impaired
department in the local publicschool system.
We've been doing a bunch ofhiking and kayaking programs
with them.
We have a tandem cyclingprogram on the books with them
this summer.
(14:07):
We've been doing some teambuilding programs.
So, sensory disabilities andthen have a history of working
with folks with mental andemotional disabilities.
We run regular programming withBoston University Center for
Psychiatric Rehab.
Great chance to get, you know,get folks together that are
going through the process ofkind of mental health therapy,
(14:29):
giving them a chance to just gofor a walk in the woods and
experience what it feels like tobe outside and be together with
other people in a very kind oflow pressure, low stress
environment, taking some time tosit and listen to the birds and
the trees and you know all thethings that come along with that
kind of slower pace, while atthe same time learning some
basic skills that would allowthem to be able to do this
(14:50):
without waypoint.
You know, I don't know if thisis gonna be one of your
questions, but I'm gonna go on alittle bit of a tangent here
because that made me think ofsomething.
Dan often says this.
Dan Minnick, who you quoted asecond ago, often says Adam, our
biggest job is to workourselves out of a job.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
I love that Right.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
The goal, and that story about Boston University
Center for Psychiatric Rehabmade me think about that.
The goal is that we as acommunity and I think we're
moving in this direction, by theway would be more accessible to
people with disabilities.
Right, not only just widerdoors and ramps, but we would
(15:29):
just have an understanding ofthings like, you know, autism
and how autism impacts people'sbehavior and how can I be a
better friend and communitymember to folks with autism.
You know, same with variousother disabilities.
But the hope is that ourcommunity in general, and
definitely the outdoor adventurecommunity, would just be more
understanding and welcoming andopen and team members of those
(15:51):
you know agencies would justknow how to work with them and
would have the equipment inplace to be able to say, yeah,
we can accommodate your needs,right.
(16:12):
So the hope is that eventuallywe get I mean, it's a big goal,
right, yeah, but we get to aplace where we Waypoint isn't
needed.
We've worked ourselves out of ajob.
That's the goal.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
I think it's a great goal.
It seems to me like it's goingto take a little bit of time to
get there and people like youand what you do and what your
organization does is critical inthat in-between time.
Like I don't even well, it'sdefinitely critical, but it
almost seems like it's, it'slike the necessary step.
People like yourself and peoplelike Ryan and people like Dan
they all need thoseorganizations, need to exist so
(16:44):
that you can have thatinvitation.
But one of the things also andyou've mentioned it and it's in
a lot of y'all's collateral andI've been inside your store or
your office so I've seen theequipment, it's the adaptive
equipment that's there.
So there are people, I guess,who have some sensory
disabilities, but then thepeople who really have some
mobile disabilities, you allhave been able to identify
(17:07):
equipment that can be used forthem and you use it in the field
.
It's not light, it's not cheapand it's not.
It requires somebody knowingwhat they're doing with this
equipment and it's somethingthat you all do really, really
well.
And I'm wondering if you cankind of unpack that a little bit
too, because, like, I loveevery picture that I look at.
It's smile, smile, smile andsomebody really loving life.
But you see somebody belayinghere.
(17:27):
It's at an indoor climbingcenter and they're in their
chair and they're belaying.
But there's things that you allare doing for people that
you're just going to take themout on a hike and they're not
mobile.
Why don't you talk about that alittle bit?
Speaker 2 (17:38):
We say access happens with infrastructure and
invitation and theinfrastructure is the equipment.
You know, if an organization oran agency just purchases
equipment and they have it thereat the welcome center and they
say, yeah, we've got it, thisoff-road wheelchair, unless
someone's there to help peopleunderstand how the chair works,
(18:02):
they understand the chairthemselves, they understand how
to help someone transfer fromtheir personal chair into an
off-road chair, they know theproperty or the facility well
enough to know these are theplaces you can go easily
independently and these are theplaces where you're going to
need some assistance.
And then, in those places wherethey need assistance, they know
(18:22):
what that assistance looks like, right?
So yes, there is a lot ofinfrastructure and training and
understanding and knowledgeneeded to be able to make sure
folks are supportedappropriately.
Thankfully, the adventureequipment world there's a lot of
really cool innovation going onout there in terms of, you know
(18:43):
, fully accessible kayaks.
There's a company out of theMidwest called Creating Ability.
Kevin Carr wonderful guy hascreated some really cool
adaptive kayaking equipment thatseat backs in the chairs that
mimic someone's wheelchair seat,different styles of hand
adaptation that help folks beable to grip and use a paddle to
go kayaking All kinds of coolinnovative kayaking equipment
(19:07):
out there, a huge variety ofoff-road wheelchairs, both
self-propelled chairs as well aspassenger chairs.
And yeah, you're right, it'snot cheap.
We do a lot of fundraising tohelp be able to purchase some of
this equipment and make thisequipment available through our
programs and, you know, to folkswho may want to come rent it or
(19:28):
borrow it or that kind of thing.
But there's a lot of really coolinnovative equipment out there
and it's continuing to.
You know, innovate People arecontinuing to innovate.
I mean, even Kevin withCreating Ability often says be
using this equipment and let meknow what's not working.
You know, let me know if youhave a new idea that we haven't
thought about.
People that are on theforefront of this equipment
(19:50):
design are constantly trying totry new things and innovate new
things and it's happeningquickly so that folks,
regardless of their abilitylevel, are able to come.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Oh, that's great.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah, and participate to the extent that they can.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
This program has only been in existence in Western
North Carolina just for the lastcouple of years, right.
So I love to kind of put a pinin that equipment piece, because
I do want to come back to that,because I think that there's
ways that people can getinvolved, and this may be one of
the ways that people can getinvolved.
This program Boston, it comesto North Carolina.
You're the right person, ryanCarlson, also your deputy
(20:29):
director, he was sort of theright person at the right time.
Let's kind of go back in time,just really just the recent past
, the last couple of years, andtalk about you taking that from
Boston then here into WesternNorth Carolina where we have an
immense and endless number ofopportunities to recreate.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah, yeah.
So Waypoint was founded inBoston in 2010.
And again, for some reason,2014 is the date in my mind when
Dan and I started talking aboutand, I think, realizing oh my
goodness, there is somethinghere and we've been able to
(21:06):
build enough of aninfrastructure and kind of a
template for how this is donethat I think we could pick this
thing up and put it in otherplaces around the country, based
on the speed that it grew inNew England and in Boston,
realized there's a need for this, you know, in other places in
the country.
And so, yeah, and just aboutevery year, at some point in the
(21:30):
year, from 2014 on, thisconversation would come up.
You know, could we do itsomewhere else?
What would it look like?
Who do we know?
Where would we do it?
And, having been from this areaof the southeast, I grew up in
Bristol, just over the mountain.
You know, like I said before,every single time this
conversation came up, I was likeI know where we need to do it.
(21:50):
Western North Carolina is thespot.
And in 2022, the Boston Globewrote an article about Waypoint.
There was a lot of response tothat article.
A lot of people reached outcurious about Waypoint, wanting
to support Waypoint, and Dan andI reconnected over that article
.
He actually came down, we went,we did a big backpacking trip
(22:11):
and just had lots ofconversations about gosh.
You know, we always dreamedabout geographical expansion,
talked a lot about it.
You know, during that trip Danwent back to Boston, called me
up a couple of days later andwas like man.
He said we have been able toput a bit of a nest egg aside as
an organization.
We have some funding set asidethat we need to do something
(22:32):
with.
And he said I want us to thinkabout and really kind of push on
this dream that we always hadof geographical expansion.
Would you be interested incoming back on board and helping
launch Waypoint North Carolina?
And the answer was very quicklyyes.
Almost exactly one year ago westarted the process of launching
(22:53):
Waypoint North Carolina.
I told Dan well, if we're goingto do this, I need a partner, I
need someone to work in thiswith me.
And immediately thought of agood buddy of mine, ryan Carlson
.
And Ryan comes with 25 plusyears of experience designing
and leading and runningadventure programs, big
expedition programs around theworld, and just has a deep
(23:15):
understanding of what it meansto not only put together a safe
and effective adventure program,but effective in the sense that
has a deep understanding of howdo we use adventure as a way to
bring about that aha moment,that learning and that that kind
of personal growth, and how dowe custom design and bring those
(23:38):
two things together.
Ryan has that deepunderstanding and so pretty
quickly pulled him in andfortunately he was in a moment
of transition and so the timingwas right for him and so super
glad to have him.
And then we just recently hiredour first full-time program
coordinator, shelby Hampton.
Shelby comes with lots ofexperience, both in the public
(23:58):
school system and in thehealthcare setting, as a CTRS, a
certified therapeuticrecreation specialist, so slowly
starting to build what Ibelieve is a super skilled and
effective team for seeing thismission continue to grow here in
Western North Carolina.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Let's talk a little bit about some of the programs
that you have held, some of thetypes of activities and, even if
you haven't held an activitywithin this particular and I
know you do hiking and bikingand you do kayaking and climbing
but some of the others that youdo I love to hear about some of
the first experiences, and youtalked about Bravo, which is
amazing, and Bravo has been onthe show.
I loved, absolutely love,having them here too.
(24:33):
So, yeah, I just love to hear alittle bit about what the last
year has been like and some ofthe programs that you've done.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
So Waypoint runs programs in two formats open
enrollment programs and customgroup programs.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
So open enrollment programs are dates that we put
on the calendar and then we doour own advertising or maybe in
partnership with othercollaborators, we'll advertise
these programs.
Folks can go right on ourwebsite.
They can click on a date and aprogram type that they want to
sign up for and they sign up andso you end up getting on those
open enrollment programs, thiskind of mixed bag and mixed
(25:07):
group of people with and withoutdisabilities going out on an
adventure together.
Okay, super fun.
Custom group programs arepartnerships with already intact
groups, so school, specialeducation, classrooms or
departments, social serviceagencies that are serving folks
with disabilities, and thosetypes of things where we
(25:28):
actually go in and identifytheir goals.
What do they want to get out ofthis?
Right, it's the whole beginwith the end in mind.
Why adventure?
Why kayaking, rock climbing,hiking, why do you feel like you
want to bring your group onthese experiences?
What do you want to get out ofthis?
And then we will go back and wewill design a program
(25:48):
specifically for that group.
Both you know designing in, youknow what type of equipment
might be needed, where we mighthost the program, what adventure
type is going to be mosteffective for bringing out those
goals and then we kind of putall of that together in a very
intentional way to hopefullybring about that goal.
One example, and maybe to keepanswering your question a little
(26:11):
bit we just recently partneredwith IC Imagine Charter School.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Oh, very cool.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
They have occupational track, special
education class in the highschool and we had connected with
them.
They reached out, we had aphone call and they said we want
to go on an indoor kayakingprogram, which is one of the
program types that we offer.
Okay, we want to go on anindoor kayaking program, which
is one of the program types thatwe offer.
Okay.
And we're like, okay, great,you know, let's talk a little
bit more.
Tell us more about yourstudents.
What are you hoping to get outof this?
(26:38):
Like you know, some groups,some custom groups, will say we
just want to go have fun.
That's really the big goal forus.
Some groups say we want ourstudents or clients, or whoever
it is, to understand what itmeans to work together better or
to be kind to one another, orwhat it means to persevere
through hard tasks and come outon the other side Whether we
(27:00):
complete we're able to completethat task or not.
What does that feel like?
Right?
So we ask all these questionsand say what are you really
trying to get out of this?
And the teacher we were talkingto she's like we want to do an
indoor kayaking program.
I said, okay, great, so we got.
We started, you know, havingthat deeper conversation and it
(27:20):
turned out she really wantedthem to learn how to work
together better.
This idea of teamwork wasreally the theme that kept
coming out and Ryan veryintuitively and quickly said
this is that's great.
You know, indoor kayaking is somuch fun.
If you really want to bring abring out this idea of teamwork
and if you want that to be whatthe students walk away with, we
need to go rock climbing.
And so we ended up.
She was like the more we talkedabout it, she's like yeah, that
(27:41):
sounds great.
So we have this really funlittle partnership with the
Riveter Climbing Gym so we wereable to coordinate with them to
get gym space during the day andwe designed this whole
adventure day using the programtype or adventure type of indoor
rock climbing to bring aboutthis theme of teamwork and what
(28:01):
does it mean to work togetherwith someone else.
So that's that kind of customdesigned model, I guess, is.
You know, different adventuretypes.
That Waypoint runs.
We run adaptive hiking programs.
So, as we talked about before,we have a variety of different
off-road, different styles ofoff-road wheelchair to help
folks with physical disabilities.
You know, participate in theadventure of hiking.
(28:23):
We go indoor and outdoor rockclimbing.
So we use climbing gyms for theindoor climbing programs and
then a variety of otherlocations here in western North
Carolina to go outdoor rockclimbing.
We do team building and ropescourse programs.
So if you've ever been on ateam building where it's kind of
a contrived group initiative,to talk about working together
better or some of those socialand character themes.
(28:46):
So we have partnerships withboth Montreat College and Warren
Wilson College to utilize theirropes course and team building
spaces.
You do low and high ropescourses, low and high ropes
courses, yep, and much of theadaptive equipment that we would
use to help folks with physicaldisabilities go rock climbing
is exactly what we use on thosehigh ropes course programs for
(29:06):
them to be able to participatein that adventure.
We use local pools toparticipate in that adventure.
We use local pools, we takeboats into pools and we teach
basic skills of kayaking and wetalk about some of those social
and character themes, if that'sone of the things that the group
is wanting to focus on.
Otherwise, we're more focusedon just the adventure itself and
also that indoor rock climbingexperience is a great kind of
controlled environment for folksto get a sense of what it feels
(29:29):
like to get in a boat, get in aboat in the water, float, maybe
even practice.
What's it going to feel likewhen I flip over and how do I
get out?
And, you know, flip back to thetop in hopes that they feel a
bit more comfortable to be ableto go out on.
Oh, and we're in the process ofbuilding a tandem cycling
(29:49):
program.
That's so cool in the process ofbuilding a tandem cycling
program.
That's so cool, yeah.
So again, kind of continuingthat theme of learning happens
at the intersection of challengeand support.
So much of kind of thefoundational belief of Waypoint
is that adventure is better whenit's shared with other people,
and we really push on this ideaof community building and
(30:11):
working together.
And if we're going to go onthis adventure, we're going to
do it together.
Tandem cycling is one of theways that we hope to be able to
do that.
So not necessarily givingsomeone their own bike even
though going on a solo bike witha group of people is also still
a way of building community.
There's something differentabout getting on a bike with
someone else and workingtogether to make that bike stay
(30:33):
upright number one and go whereyou want it to go, and you're
kind of you're attached together, so you get to know each other
a little bit more, right.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
And you get to learn a little bit about each other's
lives and talk a little bitabout the fun of just going on a
bike ride and you know whatwe're getting out of that.
But you're, you're attachedtogether, and so that's kind of
the the reason we're pushing togrow this tandem cycling program
.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
I love that and I guess in that too you also have
from the participants levelthere's a level of sort of
confidence and security that,okay, there is somebody that's
on here, it's not just me I cansort of relax a little.
Not completely, well, I guessyou can relax and just enjoy the
experience and not stress aboutwhether or not I'm falling over
or not.
But yeah, that adds a wholenother element that I didn't
even think of.
I'm thinking of the okay we canpropel and go forward, but it's
(31:19):
the whole idea of balance andyeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
We talk about this a lot and we have a.
We also have a training that weoffer to organizations and
agencies.
We've given several timeslocally, call it our inclusion
and access training, but there'skind of three components that
we believe go into all ofWaypoint's programs and we
unpack these in this trainingbut we call it our CAP sauce
C-A-P, community, access andpreparation.
(31:47):
And so community is trained,volunteers and skilled staff
help create a community ofbelonging, and we believe people
perform to their potential whenthey know they belong right.
So that's that community piece.
Access is both the physical andthe cognitive supports that
need to be in place for folks tobe able to participate to the
(32:10):
fullest.
And then preparation is how dowe define preparation?
Preparation is people performto their potential when they're
mentally and emotionallyprepared.
And so the example I'll givesometimes is if you imagine
yourself signing up for asurfing lesson and you go to the
beach and the waves are hugeand you walk out there and the
(32:33):
instructor's like here's yourwetsuit, here's your board suit
up, we're going out in fiveminutes.
What's your, what's yourthought?
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Fear.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Fear.
How do I get my money back?
I'm not doing this Right.
Versus scenario number two youshow up and he says hey, welcome
, glad you're here.
This is your wetsuit and yourboard.
We're going to be using thatlater.
We're going to spend the next45 minutes right here on the
beach.
I'm going to show youeverything you need to know.
We're going to get you fullyprepared to be able to go out
(33:02):
and paddle out into those wavesand, as a matter of fact, we're
watching those waves prettyclosely and we think they're
supposed to die down.
But if they don't, we're goingto go right around the corner
and we're going to paddle in theharbor in a much calmer.
You know we're going to.
We're going to practicepaddling our board in a much
calmer area before we actuallygo out into the surf break.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Cool.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Right, you feel a lot differently about stepping into
that experience, right?
I think tandem cycling havingthat person with them it's the
same with like a tandem kayak,like a tandem kayak.
Having another person in a boatwith you that is competent and
trained and ready to supportwhatever needs you might have,
helps you feel more kind ofmentally and emotionally
prepared and ready to actuallystep into that adventure.
(33:41):
That's another reason that wereally want to push on growing
this tandem cycling program isbecause we think it's a deeper
invitation we think it's adeeper invitation.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Wow, yeah, no doubt, yeah, oh, that's good.
Okay, so amazing programs andamazing people.
It doesn't come without a cost,though, and I'm sure that
there's ways that people couldget involved.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
My two easy ways for folks to get involved.
Financially, 80% of our revenuecomes from donors, whether that
be individual donors, corporatesupport or foundation support.
Foundation giving, our programprices or program fees cover
about 20 to 25% of what itactually costs us to run these
(34:24):
experiences and these adventures.
And then the other thing isvolunteers.
We don't run solely on avolunteer model.
We do have at least two,sometimes three, full-time paid
trained staff who are actuallyrunning the program, and then
those two or three folks aresupported by volunteers,
(34:45):
sometimes trained volunteers,sometimes new volunteers.
The biggest need we have fromvolunteers is a smiling face,
someone to come and just help usagain create that sense of
community.
We're glad you're here.
How can I help you?
You and I are going to get topaddle in a boat together today.
It's going to be so much fun.
We've got instructors here tohelp us make sure where our boat
(35:07):
goes straight to.
You know, just having peoplethat are willing and interested
to just come jump in socially isis one of the biggest needs
that we have.
Of course, of course, if someonehas, if they are a rock climber
or they are a hiker or they area kayaker and they already
bring those skills, they'll usethem on our programs and we need
(35:28):
them on our programs.
But we don't want peoplefeeling like I don't know how to
do all that stuff to be abarrier, because our real need
is just come be a part of thegroup.
Come help us create communityand create a sense of belonging
and make people feel comfortableand glad that we're there.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
That's a perfect segue actually into a wonderful
program that you all are workingon with the North Carolina
State Parks.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
And you not only have volunteers, but you have the
trained staff, people who arethere that are helping people
who come along to have theseexperiences that we're talking
about as they enjoy the NorthCarolina State Parks.
This is a really big deal.
I mean a really big deal.
I mean a really big deal, and Ithink one of the things you all
has shared a quote with me fromVictor Hugo there's nothing
(36:14):
more powerful as an idea whosetime has come, and if there was
ever a program that seems to bedefinitive of this, it's that.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
And to me it sums up exactly what we're experiencing
right now with Waypoint.
I mean, we've been here forexactly a year in Western North
Carolina and our calendar isalready pretty much full.
I mean, looking into the fall,we have some space for some new
groups, but not much, and that'sbecause everybody wants to
(36:42):
experience these wonderfulrivers, lakes, trails, rocks
that we have here in WesternNorth Carolina, and they should
be experiencing that stuff.
Waypoint has taken off in a waythat we have here in Western
North Carolina and they shouldbe experiencing that stuff.
Waypoint has taken off in a waythat we didn't quite expect.
One example of that is thisNorth Carolina State Parks
Partnership, and I'll back up alittle bit too, mike, and say
entities like the North CarolinaState Parks are now saying, yep
(37:05):
, we get it.
We need to open our doors widerfor some of these marginalized
communities and folks thathaven't historically had access
to our parks and not just accessbut haven't had that invitation
, and so one of the ways thatthey're doing that is by
partnering with Waypoint.
So we're doing four trainingsfor North Carolina State Park
(37:27):
ranger, superintendents, staff,state park rangers,
superintendents, staff.
And then we're doing 13,question mark, 13 adventure
programs for the North Carolinastate parks.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
So eight kayaking programs split between Lake
James and Lake Norman.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
A couple adaptive rock climbing programs happening
at a couple of the parks andthen some hiking programs in the
fall happening at some of theparks.
That press release hasn't quitegone out as we're sitting here
right now, but it will be.
They're building the skillset intheir team internally right
through these trainings thatthey're wanting us to do and
(38:04):
that we're doing.
And then they're bringingWaypoint in to help work
alongside them, to market to thelarger community to say, not
only are we ready for you whenyou show up, but we want you to
come on these days and we'regoing to actually take you on an
experience, and so there'll bea mix of Waypoint staff,
waypoint volunteers and statepark ranger, superintendents,
(38:26):
staff on these programs with us.
So it's a huge move for theNorth Carolina State Parks and
I'm super thankful to be a partof it, super excited to be a
part of seeing not only seeingpeople with disabilities get
access to the North CarolinaState Parks or more North
Carolina State Parks, but seeingthat culture begin to change a
(38:48):
little bit, in that peoplerecognize that everybody needs
access to these things, and sowe've got to do our part to
figure out how to make thathappen, and the fact that the
North Carolina State Parks isleading that conversation is a
big deal.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
That is incredible.
Did they come to you?
Did you go to them?
How did that relationshiphappen?
Speaker 2 (39:04):
You know where it happened was the Outdoor Economy
Conference.
Oh, no way.
Yeah, okay, so we got a chanceto meet Reed Wilson.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Oh, no way, yeah, okay, so we got a chance to meet
Reed Wilson and um.
Sean McElhone is the.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
West district superintendent.
Yeah, just phone calls startedhappening and emails started
happening, and the other thingwas this isn't new for us.
So Waypoint has a really deeppartnership with um, the
Massachusetts DCR department ofconservationreation, so the
Massachusetts State Parks, andso when Sean and Reed and I met
(39:36):
at Outdoor Economy Conference, Iwas quickly able to say, hey,
listen, we're already doing thisin Massachusetts in partnership
with the state agency.
I think we could replicate thatdown here if y'all are
interested.
And they both were like let'skeep the conversation going.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
I love that.
I love that.
Yeah, reed's an amazingindividual, I mean just amazing
human being.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
He's so incredible.
I had the pleasure of havinghim actually on the show a
couple of years ago at theOutdoor Economy Conference as we
recorded it, and he's justhumble.
He is excited about everybodygetting into the outdoors and
obviously he's excited about theoutdoors in general, being a
member of think of the SierraClub and others.
Yeah, he's very much involved.
What was the reception likefrom the state parks rangers and
(40:19):
superintendents and staff?
Was this something sort of newfor them?
Did they have to be sold onthis idea?
Were they just all in from thevery beginning?
What were those trainings like?
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Yeah, good question.
So so far we've done two of ourclassroom trainings.
We call it our inclusion andaccess training.
It's about a two and a halfhour, you know, roughly two to
two and a half hour trainingaround disability history.
And you know, we even get intosome real specific strategies
that we use to help folks withintellectual and developmental
(40:51):
disabilities get involved.
And how do we design ourprogramming, you know, in a way
that is in line with universaldesign for learning and some
things like that.
So it's very much aclassroom-based training.
And then we'll have so we'vedone two of those and then we'll
have two more skills-focusedtrainings for a team of folks
from the parks an adaptivekayaking training and an
(41:13):
adaptive rock climbing training.
That'll happen.
That rock climbing trainingwill happen in the fall 35 plus
rangers and superintendents andpark staff have come through
those two classroom sessions andMike, the last one, was
supposed to be again.
it's a two to two and a halfhour training.
It was almost four hours.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Questions.
Oh man, they were so engaged.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Everybody's so excited.
The responses we've gotten onour evaluation afterwards was
we're so glad this is happening.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
So they, you know, I don't know, you know in terms of
Sean's job for you know, kindof communicating this to his
teams and saying, hey, this iswhat's happening.
I don't know what that's beenlike, but from our perspective,
everybody's in, they're all in.
What can we do?
What gates do you need?
Access into?
The superintendent at Crowder'sMountain was even like hey, I
(42:07):
can meet you there with aside-by-side and we can help
shuttle folks up on aside-by-side, if that'd make it
more accessible.
Right, so they've.
They've been rolling out thered carpet.
So far it's.
It's been really awesome to bea part of.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
But is this a model that's sort of catching fire
across the country right now, Doyou know?
Or is this happening in a fewselect places?
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Yeah, I you know with state parks, I know big federal
agencies.
I mean the work that Catalystis doing in partnership with the
Great Smoky.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Mountains.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
National Park is a great example of national
federal agencies picking up onthis need for accessibility.
There's some organizations outwest that have deep partnerships
with national forests andnational parks out there.
But yeah, I do think we'reseeing more and more federal
(42:56):
agencies, land managers, folkssaying we need to do more, you
know, in terms of again theinfrastructure, thinking about
trail building.
I mean, g5 is a perfect exampleof federal agency coming
together with a nonprofitorganization and working
together to kind of move theneedle on accessibility into the
(43:17):
national forest down there.
So I do think it's happeningmore.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
That's great to hear, yeah, and like you said you,
hope, at some point you'll justwork yourself out of a job and
it becomes the norm, and it'snot this thing that we're
talking about.
It's more about we'recelebrating it as opposed to
trying to expose people to it.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Yeah, it's an ambitious goal, but I do.
The more we give thesetrainings, the more we talk
through it with people, the moreI see people becoming more
comfortable with the idea, andso much of it is rooted in the
unknown.
Historically, people withdisabilities haven't been
involved and included in ourkind of general population
(43:53):
general community.
I mean, you saw it, I saw itgrowing up in the public school
system.
Right, there was the special eddepartment.
It was over this, like thosekids over there, right right
more and more like realinclusion is happening at a
younger age and moving through.
I do think, and as we continueto run some of these programs I
mean this state park I'll be soexcited to see once we get
(44:15):
through this year and more andmore people have seen people
with disabilities using thoseparks paddling in kayaks, going
rock climbing, going hiking itstarts to change our mindset
about what people are capable ofdoing, and not just on big
outdoor adventures but ineveryday life.
You know like you're walkingdown the street one day after
(44:36):
coming on a waypoint program andseeing or even being in the
climbing gym is this is anexample I'll often use, even if
someone's not directly involvedin being a part of the waypoint
program, volunteering or thatkind of thing.
Right, maybe they're just inthe climbing gym climbing and
they see someone wheel in intheir power chair and they see
them get in a harness and theysee them go climb.
Oh my goodness, I never thoughtthat was possible.
(44:58):
Well, that's pretty cool.
Well then, when they're walkingdown the street and they see
someone similar or maybe eventhat same person wheeling up the
street in their power chair,they look at them differently
right so there is a societal andcultural change that can happen
just by giving entrance intothese activities and spaces.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
Well said and.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
I think long term the needle will move.
We will become more comfortablewith the idea and the thought
of what's the part that I playnow and kind of looking for my
neighbor that I know may have adisability and may not be
participating in some of thesame activities that I find joy
from.
I'm going to go invite him.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
You know, because he can do it.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Yeah Well, I mean this really resonates with me
because not too long ago my sonand I were mountain biking at
Canuga Ride, canuga and Catalystwas out there and there were a
number of people that were outthere on and I'm probably going
to use the proper name of theirbikes, but it was like a, it was
a four-wheeler bike and theywere hand crank or hand pedaled,
and not all of them, they wereall various types of
(46:05):
disabilities, mobilitydisabilities, I guess, and it I
mean it just blew me away whenI'm huffing and puffing, when I
got up to the top and Iliterally had to lay down and
just let my heart rate come backdown to normal and you start to
see one person after the otherjust coming up and for me it
just sat.
That whole day was greatbecause I was with my son number
one but watching them was thehuge part of the joy for me for
(46:30):
that day.
And then the third part was amountain biking.
So it was all about connectionsof people and it was about
watching them sort of continuingto come up.
And you know, I'll never forgetthis one bumper, or the one
sticker on the back of a guy'sbike.
It says you know, embrace thesuck, you know is kind of what
it said, but they were going forit.
And it made such an impressionon me that here you are, you
know, a couple of years laterand still thinking about and
(46:51):
talking about that kind of anexperience.
And so it's like what you saythe more that you see this in
the outdoors, the more that yousee this becomes mainstream, it
becomes less of specialprogramming, it becomes this is
just that they get.
They get a chance to do this,just like I do.
And again, I keep going back tothe smiles on the faces on
every single one of thesepictures that I look at, and
(47:13):
that's the same smile that wehave when we do it.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
Yeah, totally, totally, yeah In in the training
.
One of the things we lead withis and this is something we try
to impress on all of our teammembers, both volunteers and
full-time is we're not workingwith disabilities, we're working
with people.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Love that.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
Right.
So if we can get our minds tokind of cross that threshold of
like, wait a minute, this isjust.
It's just a person approachlife a little bit differently
than me, but I just need to getto know them as an individual
that's it and as a person, andthey can do as much and and
anything I can do yeah you know,with a little bit of help, uh,
potentially, and uh, they wantto do those things.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Yes, you know so.
One of your students that waspart of Bravo Layla, was my
wife's student way back when,when she was in like the first
or second grade and her motherwas very much that very same way
of listen.
I want her to do the thingsthat normal people are doing,
and so don't baby her.
I want you guys to treat herjust like you're going to treat
(48:12):
me no-transcript, talking abouttheir experiences.
(48:38):
And it was, you know, it wasjust her heart and it was her
mind and it was her joyfulnessand her playfulness, that just
it just made you forget abouteverything else.
And she's just a human, justlike we are, and that's where we
need to get to that.
At least that's what I hear yousaying.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Yes, yeah, layla is a high school girl.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
High school girl yeah , who just wants to do Wise
beyond her years Exactly.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Yes, she's amazing, she is.
She's actually one of the Bravoparticipants that have come on
our programs that we've beentalking about.
How can we help her progress inher skills?
She really took to the indoorkayaking program and being in
those small whitewater boats andwe've had some conversations
just internally recently abouthow could we push Layla to start
moving towards getting on theFrench Broad and playing around
(49:19):
with some whitewater kayaking.
Anyway, that's a whole notherside conversation.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
Don't challenge her with a good time, that's right.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Exactly In the disability advocacy world, mike.
What you're talking about isthe dignity of risk.
People with disabilities anddisability advocates say I want
the right to fail.
Don't pad and protect my wholelife, like, give me the chance
to try something that I mightnot succeed at, it's okay, just
(49:45):
like you get a chance toparticipate in things that you
might not succeed at.
That's where the learninghappens.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
That's where I grow, so know.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
So yeah, dignity of risk.
We need to give everybody thedignity of risk.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Oh, that's so well said.
Well, it is so hard for me tobelieve that we've literally
been here for an hour, if youcan believe that, and I know the
last time that we were togetherwe probably talked for the same
amount of time and could havekept on going, and we could keep
on going today, but I guess atsome point we have to draw this
to a close.
So I really thank you for thework that you all are doing.
So the things you're doing aregreat.
(50:17):
Again, it'swaypointadventureorg right.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
That's it.
Yeah, and when you go therethere'll be two buttons
Massachusetts and North Carolina.
Okay, If you want to knowwhat's going on in Massachusetts
or get involved there, youclick the Massachusetts button.
But if you want to get involvedwith us here in North Carolina,
click the North Carolina button.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
All right, and you are happy to have people get
involved financially with theirtime volunteering, creating
those smiles, whatever it may be.
You would definitely invitethose sorts of people to come
alongside you all and join youin your forces.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
Yes, Participate, volunteer and donate that's what
you'll see when you go on thewebsite.
Those are kind of the threecalls.
To action is come join us on aprogram as a participant or a
volunteer and if you want to seethis work continue, make a big
donation.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
You heard it here first Make a big donation.
Yeah, we definitely want to seethat continue.
Well, the work that you'redoing is noble work.
It's just such good work and Ilove the fact that, even though
you got out of it at one point,you're back into it and you
really realize that this is whatI was made to do, and you're
living out of that right now.
So you're living out of theoverflow.
So it's definitely evidentGreat heart, love your mission,
(51:20):
love everything about what y'allare doing, and I just wish
y'all the absolute most and bestof luck.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
Thanks, mike, you got to come join us on a program
too.
Speaker 1 (51:26):
I will do it.
Thanks, buddy.
It was an absolute pleasure tosit down with Adam.
His insights into theincredible mission of making
outdoor experiences accessibleto individuals with disabilities
were truly inspiring.
From the latest in adaptiveadventure equipment to the
expansive efforts in WesternNorth Carolina, we hope you've
gained a deeper understanding ofhow Waypoint Adventure is
(51:48):
revolutionizing inclusivity andoutdoor activities is
revolutionizing inclusivity andoutdoor activities.
The stories of collaborationwith local schools, social
service agencies and theexciting North Carolina State
Parks Partnership showcase theimpact of their customized
adventures, fostering strongcommunities and making a real
difference.
If you're as moved by WaypointAdventures' mission as we are,
(52:09):
consider getting involved.
Whether through participation,volunteering or donations, your
support can help further theircause and bring the joy of
outdoor adventures to everyone.
Visit waypointadventureorg formore information.
That's going to do it for thisepisode.
I really hope you enjoyed it.
If you did, please subscribe,rate and leave us a review.
Your feedback helps us continueto bring you stories of how
(52:31):
these mountains and the outdoorsinfluence and shape our lives.
Join me on Instagram andFacebook and drop me a line at
mike at explorationlocalcom ifyou ever have a suggestion for a
future episode or if you justwant to say hello.
As always, I encourage you towander far but explore local.
And until we meet again, let'schampion a world where everyone
(52:52):
can experience thetransformative joy of outdoor
adventures.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
Thank you.
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