Gandalf Gets Pushy : The Hobbit #5

Bilibo finally makes his way out the door--but was it his decision or did Gandalf force him out?  And what is "the king" that's mentioned?

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Before the rings of power, there were the
Silmarils.
Before Sauron,
there was his master Morgoth.
Before Aragorn and Arwen, there was Beren and
Luthien.
Join us as we explore Tolkien and all
the ages of Middle Earth with your hosts
from the onering.com,
Jonathan Watson
and Michael Grumbine.

(00:24):
Because I always forget to say this every
single time. Hey. If you like our podcast
and you enjoy it, please give us a
review on Apple Podcasts.
It would be nice to have some more
I know we got we get thousands of
listeners every week and so I would love
to have more folks sending us reviews, but
I never remind anybody so nobody ever does
anything. So I'm gonna be one of those
annoying people that just says, hey, man, can
you just give us a 5 star review?

(00:45):
Not a 1 star, not a 2 star,
not a 3 star. Give us a 5
star review. It'd be so cool. I sound
like Halbrand now.
Speaking of Halbrand, we just did our review
of the, final or the final of the
San Diego Comic Con 30 minute and 52
second trailer for the rings of power. So
go check us check that out on our
YouTube channel, theoneway.com/youtube.
We'll get you there.
And there, when you look at that, hey,

(01:07):
like, subscribe, do all the good things there
too so that you don't miss any of
the things that we put onto YouTube,
not just onto the podcast feed. So there's
there's more stuff there all the time that
you can check out. So anyway, Michael, good
to see you again. I just saw you
5 minutes ago, but it's nice to see
your smiley face. Without John Trent, we don't
need him.
Yeah. It was fun.

(01:28):
Everyone will have seen or if they didn't,
they can see our reaction video to the
rings of power trailer that just Yes. Yeah.
We'll be setting that up putting that up,
probably on Friday 26th. So a few days
before this this is published
on the YouTube's Internet. And and boy did
it change our minds. We we're looking forward
to season 2, the rings of power. Totally.

(01:50):
Yeah. Yeah.
Didn't change your minds at all. Alright. So
we are on a we are we this
is going to be a short ever episode,
guys, because we're going through only through and
I'm trying to talk fast to get through
this all. We're only going through half
of chapter 2 roast mutton. So really, it's
the point at which they reach the trolls
because I think there's enough to talk about
the trolls next week when we get into
it. And I love this slow deliberate

(02:12):
pass through into the hobbit,
through the hobbit.
And so
we'll do that. We'll see what we we
we get through out of this here, but
first,
as is our want every week, we have
our
Hobbit facts.
Yes. There is there is a Hobbit fact

(02:32):
guys that I came across
that I didn't know until this week and
I know we were saying earlier
about how the Hobbit really wasn't written in
Middle Earth and they're like he kinda made
it up for his children and so everything
he knew he kinda threw into there. Right?
You have engines and you have policemen and
you have all these sort of things that
that weren't really part of Middle Earth, but
that

(02:53):
that he still put into there. However,
I did get this book, The History of
the Hobbit, that I've never gone through before.
And and to be fair, I've never gone
through the Hobbit in this detail because it's
always going through the histories of the first
age, the second age that I found more
interesting because it creates the world of Middle
Earth so much more and that's my favorite
Right. Of Tolkien's world.
So
in one of the original manuscripts discovered,

(03:16):
Tolkien actually references
Beren and Luthien,
originally. So I'm gonna read directly from the
history of The Hobbit here and I know
you haven't got the you haven't read this
yet, Michael, because you just got the copy
of The History of Hobbit this week. Woo
hoo. I've been telling you every week. We've
been waiting for weeks to finally get that.
Looking good. So so you fine you finally
got it. Haven't had a chance because I'm
it's all this is already on page a
150 out of 1500

(03:38):
pages of last year. It's kinda nutty. Wow.
So
so in,
in in the,
in this manuscript, which is a continuation of
the manuscript we were talking about,
in a couple episodes ago,
when he's talking about the necromancer,
he's actually calls him Thu, which is t

(03:59):
h u, which is origin which which is
his original name for Sauron.
So here's what he wrote,
in a comment about the Necromancer's
castle originally in, this manuscript of the Hobbit.
This is from the author Ratcliffe of The
History of The Hobbit. Bloodorthin's comment that the
necromancer's castle stands no more and he is
flown to another darker place. Baron he's he

(04:21):
says this is what this is what is
in the man manuscript. Baron and Tenuviel broke
his power, but that is quite another story.
And he writes this, it's not surprising that
the earlier work was still fresh in Tolkien's
mind nor that he would forge the connection
between it and the new story taking shape.
He had written this passage in the poem
referring to in March April of 1928, the
poem The Lay of Latheian, which is the

(04:42):
the poem the Baron Baron and Luthien.
What's more work on the two pieces overlap.
Tolkien began The Hobbit in the summer of
1930 and was still writing new lines for
the lay of Lathian as late as September
1931. Thus, if any part of the Silmarillion
material were to have a direct impact on
the new story, the lay of Latheon is
the natural piece where you might expect to
find it. And the influence is there right
down to verbal echoes. After Thu's defeat, the

(05:04):
destruction of his tower, and the release of
his captives, the lei describes how Thu abandoned
his body and took the form of a
giant vampire
bat.
So here here's what he says about why
he cut these lines. Why having made explicit
ties between mister Bagan's story and that of
Beren and Luthien, did Tolkien later cut these
lines? The answer, I think, lies in the
problems of chronology they create. If, as Bloodorthin

(05:25):
says, Gandalf's father perished, Gandalf being okay. Bloodorthin
is Gandalf as we know him. Gandalf is
Thorin as we know him. It's getting a
little confusing. Gandalf slash Thorin's father perished in
the dungeons of the necromancer, but his castle
has since been cast down by Beren and
Tunuuval then less less less than a century
has passed between those events

(05:46):
of of Beren and Luthien and the time
of this story since Gandalf's father set out
of his ill fated journey a 100 years
ago last Tuesday. It's a far too short
of time to create the narrative distance from
the Silmarillion tradition Tolkien seems to be striving
for. So
it's a detailed thing. Right? He couldn't put
it in because it wouldn't match the details
necessary to create the story. Like, it would
it would happen it's not a 100 years

(06:07):
difference. So, but that he actually put it
in. Right? It was forefront in his mind.
I did not know that Beren and Luthien
I mean, they're they're mentioned in Lord of
the Rings, but they're actually originally in The
Hobbit too. I thought that was pretty cool.
That is cool. I have never never heard
that. And it is cool be especially because
obviously,
the peril there is with Morgoth and Varian
Luthien, you know, taking down

(06:28):
Sauron's boss, not Sauron.
But, but that's
at least that's how it eventually ends up
in the Silmarillion,
the texts that we now call the Silmarillion.
And so, yep, that was that is very
cool. And,
and it shows that his desire was always
to tie these 2 together in some way.
Yeah. Yeah. And,

(06:49):
and though though he did that even more
so in the 19 6 in the band
in 1960 rewrite, which we will go go
into once again. Check out last week's episode
if you've missed that about how he rewrote
the first chapter and the changes that he
made and how it's it is really quite
totally different,
more so than I I would have expected.
Alright.
We will have a brief extend we'll go

(07:10):
over a couple of things from some of
you fans and a couple of other notes,
particularly probably maybe about the Rings of Power.
But, if you wanna get that guys, go
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(07:31):
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Okay.
Today then,

(07:52):
we're gonna be going over the first half
of roast
mutton.
The chapter that sees Bilbo,
still fighting a bit with his tucker side
and his bag inside particularly right in the
beginning.
Well, he and he leaves the Shire. So
this is the leading of the Shire. Right.
What I found most striking about this chapter
is the beginning of the chapter is still

(08:13):
full of the old chapter in the sense
that you have clocks and mantelpieces. You have
punctuality. There's exact there's at least six references
to specific times, 10:30,
10:45,
10 minutes until, you know, 11 PM exact
11 AM rather exactly,
be at the Green Dragon Inn and buy
water at 11 AM sharp, you know, and

(08:35):
as if as if dwarves and hobbits of
of some
yesteryear land had English punctuality,
and and ran their lives the way the
English,
learned to in the late 19th early 20th
century. So it's it's fascinating,
that,
that Tolkien's still keeping like, this is the
Shire of of the Hobbit

(08:57):
is basically 19th century England, late 19th century
England. I I don't know if that speaks
to this, but one of the things that
stuck out to me and that I think
that's part of the punctuality is manners. Manners
is very important in a sense. Like, it
is in the last chapter too, but the
distinction made here
in manners both of, like, being punctual and
also, like, you didn't dust the mantelpiece yet,
and we'll see it even further when they

(09:18):
talk about the manners of those goals next
to the episode. But there is and I
I'm wondering
it was a story told to children. Do
you think that was in his mind as
he was, like, saying these things? Particularly with
the trolls about, like, when we get to
it wiping his shirt his mouth on his
sleeve and things like that.
Right. And he he's very upset about not
about running off without his pocket handkerchiefs and

(09:38):
is greatly relieved that Gandalf shows up with
pocket multiple pocket handkerchiefs which is a it's
just so it's such a proper thing to
do. It's it's so etiquette based and is
to have pocket handkerchiefs.
You know, and, and so it's I mean,
even more so than smoking pipes. Like, that's
been around for a long for centuries. But,
the whole pocket handkerchief thing and dusting the

(10:00):
mantelpiece and
clocks and 10:45
AM
and 11 AM sharp and all this talk
about punctuality.
This is just it's a very different world.
And then they leave and all of a
sudden they're in the loan lands and things
are a little different.
They're different,
but yeah. Yet he has to is that
at at this point that he has to,
like, dress up in the,

(10:22):
in the dwarves clothes too? Right. Right? Which
it's,
that that has to be a front to
an a front to his sense of decency
at this point because he's wearing the, he's
wearing the hat. He looks kinda he's got
the cloak. He looks looks a little foolish.
And so even when he's going about, right,
he and and what it does is it
sort of shows that
he's trying to be a part of the

(10:42):
group, but he's not really a dwarf.
And we learned that I'm gonna have to
jump forward a little bit now later to
now now since it's part of the same
chapter. But we learned that and that he
doesn't,
like, the dwarves are loud and trampy and
they make so much noise. Right?
That point is made whereas, you know, he
kinda got it the Tolkien says he kinda
I don't have the quote in front of
me because we're gonna do this, but

(11:04):
he he's annoyed by the dwarves and he's
constantly annoyed. So it always makes me wonder,
like, why what was the final was it
really just Gandalf pushing him out that was
the final, like, was that the the final
weight on the scale of his tuckishness to
be like totally okay? Or was it his
tuckishness deciding to go out and do it?
What was what was the final effect? Because
he just it's sort of like

(11:24):
it's sort of like going to up to
somebody and you're holding a piece of trash
and you just say to them, here hold
this, and they just put out their hand,
like, without thinking and they do it. Is
that what happened to to to build those?
Like, Ganifel's like, no. You gotta go. You
got 10 minutes. It's it. You're gonna have
to run. You better go. And so he
just goes. Like, he doesn't it's like he
doesn't even think about it. It's an interesting
what what forces him out the door at
this point? Is it is it is it
the

(11:45):
the snowball effect, I guess? That's the way
that maybe that's the way that I'm thinking
about it. It's everything going in, and then
Gandalf is just he just needs that little
nudge to finally get him there, and and
and he doesn't have enough resistance to it.
Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's
a fascinating work making that transition.
And there are other things that happen that

(12:05):
are funny,
as as they go. I I found it
highly amusing. I noticed this time that everything
turns from great to sour
in the most iconic way British way possible,
which is it starts to rain without end.
So that that's that's it. Like, everything was
great and they're traveling along. And then all
of a sudden, it starts raining without end.

(12:25):
And then everything goes to pot. And they're
grumpy, and they can't light a fire, and
Gandalf just disappears,
like, you know, popping on. Right. Yeah. And
they don't even notice. They're like, oh, wait.
They don't even notice? We'll just oh, you
know what's hilarious? It reminds me,
in in, couple of years ago,
2021, 2022,
they recovered the Soviet version of Lord of

(12:48):
the Rings, the Soviet miniseries that had,
aired once on Leningrad TV back in 19
hearing about this. Yeah. Saw a little clip
of it. Yeah. And it is so weird
and so hilarious.
But
one of the things that was a reality
and it made me laugh was
they when they're doing Moria in in in

(13:08):
this Soviet version of Lord of the Rings,
they didn't have the money for the Balrog.
So
so
they don't have Gandalf fighting the Balrog.
They just make it through Moria getting chased
by orcs. And then at the end, they're
like, oh, Gandalf's gone. Oh, he must have
died. Alright. They move on. That's a certain

(13:28):
thing. It's like Gandalf's just yeah. He he
just disappears. It's a He disappears. Yep. He
just says,
it was nearly night when they had crossover,
Stonebridge,
which again okay. Stonebridge. The next episode is
called, the next the the rewritten chapter I
think is called the broken bridge. Was that
what it was called? Okay. I don't have
it in front of me. The rewritten chapter
in the 19 abandoned 1960 version. So the

(13:49):
bridge obviously holds a lot more import in
that chapter.
Let me get back to that. It was
nearly night when they had crossed over. The
wind broke up the gray clouds and a
wandering moon appeared above I love that wandering
moon. Appeared above the hills between the flying
rags.
I love that between the flying rags. Right?
The the ragged clouds
broke. Anyway, then they stopped and Thorin muttered

(14:10):
something about supper and where shall we get
a dry patch to sleep on? Not until
then did they notice that Gandalf was missing.
So far, he'd come all the way with
them, never saying if he was in the
adventure or merely keeping them company for a
while. He'd eaten most,
talked most, and laughed most, but now he
simply was not there at all. He had
he was like, he'd eaten most, most, most,
and now they just forget about it. And
you have to understand, like, Gandalf's huge, like,

(14:30):
they're all small. They're all dwarves and they're
walking and and hobbits and Gandalf's the only
one riding a horse. They have ponies with
parcels and stuff, but Gandalf's the only one,
I think. Here
here I was gonna say, here's here's why
I think that that, that, they have this
like, they they totally forgot about Gandalf, and
that happens in the the paragraph right before
it. Yeah. They say, still the dwarves jogged

(14:51):
on, never turning round or taking any notice
of the hobbit. So I'm sure the same
could be said of Gandalf. Right. You probably
in the back. Yeah. And then he just
disappeared. Right. Right. And so and we also
learn a little something. Tolkien starts telling us
things to make the hob them different.
We know we knew from the first chapter
that Biffer, Boffer, Bomber love to eat.

(15:11):
We learned from this chapter that, Dory and
Nori like regular meals, like hobbits. So apparently
they're hobbit like in their desire for regular
meals. And then oin and gloin are the
best at lighting fires. And they're get they
get really upset because they can't light a
fire in the way even they can't light
a fire, which throws their their they get
the mood gets even darker.

(15:32):
And this is what provides the attraction to
what ends up being the troll's fire, the
red light. Yeah.
But, so we we're we're learning a bit
about the others. Of course, Thorin grumbles a
lot, which doesn't seem it, you know, he
hasn't been grumbling in the previous chapter, but
he's he's not a very positive person.
But, yeah. So we're we're learning a little

(15:54):
bit more about the dwarves and, but then
when push comes to shove and it's time
for them, they're they need
fire and they see a fire in the
in the, in the distance,
in the woods,
on the hills, or, you know, after the
bridge,
they immediately turned to the hobbit, which I
found to be fascinating because it's always, you

(16:17):
know, dwarves.
Here they are and they're they're all, you
know, in a clump and they're all miserable.
They're like, let's send the burglar up to
do with the
what the burglar is supposed to do. Right.
Right. And that new that happens more more
than once. Right? That
they just are like, yeah. No. No. No.
It's the red shirt. Send the red shirt

(16:37):
out. Right. Exactly. He's the original red shirt.
Now it is the burglar's churn, they said,
meaning elbow. You must go on and find
out all about that light and what it
is for
and if all is perfectly safe and canny,
said Thor into the hobbit. Now scuttle off
and come back quick if all is well.
If not, come back if you can. If
you can't, poop twice like a barn owl

(16:58):
and once like a screech owl, and we
will do what we can.
It's like he didn't like know what the
what what is the line after that? Read
the next line after that about what Bilbo
thinks about the barn owl screech owl. Bilbo
had to go before he could that he
could not hoot even once like any kind
of owl any more than fly like a
bat. Yeah. Yeah. It's just so great.
Yeah. They they they pass the buck there,
and it shows like there there's I mean,

(17:19):
maybe it's because, you know, they
they're so focused on everything else. They're like,
no. No. No. We don't wanna deal with
that. You go deal with that. Like, you
figured out. It's not I don't think it
is. It can't be there so focused on
anything else because what is there to focus
on? They can't light a fire. They they
they want to find out if it's safe
and they wanna, you know, get access to
that fire.
And I I think I mean, the only
thing I could think to be to keep
it reasonable is

(17:40):
they realize this is a this is a
land where
people here could be unfriendly. So they're sending
their burglar in
to check out and see if there's if
it's if it's friendly peeps or not. And
it turns out it's not.
I think I think the most like the
one thing we kinda skipped over, I wanna
kinda to take a little backtrack, is the
contract.
I think that's,

(18:02):
I I read so I'm reading a few
other commentaries about this history of the Hobbit
annotated Hobbit. I have got another couple, so
I'm kind of looking at it. And there's
an interesting discussion that people have about this.
Some people think it's a completely tongue in
cheek contract that Oh, okay. It's it's written
to be funny
to even to to Bilbo, like, to like,
not even to Bilbo, but Thorin wrote it
unseriously, like thinking this is never gonna happen.

(18:23):
Whereas others think this is just Tolkien kind
of making a joke about what what has
to happen legally speaking because he hated all
that part of the the the,
administrative side of everything, but putting that in
there where he thought was kind of a
joke. So those those seem to be the
two sides of it, but what do you
think Thorin
wrote that to be
as a humorous jest to himself or to
the dwarves or to to Bilbo to Gandalf?

(18:45):
You know, particularly about,
you know, thinking it unnecessary to disturb your
esteemed
repose.
We have proceeded in advance to make requisite
preparation shall await your re respected person. Yes.
Clearly there's there's funny he's he's being
funny
in those in those lines that you said.

(19:05):
But do I think that the contract is,
no, I don't, because there's nothing funny in
the contract. I mean, there there is one
funny thing, which is funeral expenses to be
defrayed by us or our representatives. If occasion
arises, the matter is not otherwise Who are
their representatives? I love that.
It's the it's the dwarf collective,
the Arabor collective.
I wonder if this was something that he

(19:26):
got from the military and like you know
Probably. He actually won. It's very bureaucratic language
and and
and, it could have been for the military.
But I actually don't I don't think that
there was no need for Thor wrote a
note to get Bilbo out the door and
meet meet them at by in Bywater by
11 AM. And so there was no need
for him to put in the part about
the contract at all.

(19:48):
It it just
doesn't for
people
that are so,
for dwarves, dwarves have shown themselves to be
so concerned with their gold and their money.
For him to then on in writing offer
1 14th of the profits of their venture
is a very specific,
reference. I don't I just can't see it

(20:08):
not being,
a real thing for Thorin. I I I
don't I, I don't I don't buy the
whole this is all a joke,
explanation. But that is the first time I've
heard it. So Yeah.
Maybe maybe maybe there's something compelling. It'll be
interesting when we read the, the rewritten chapter
to see if this changes at all. Oh,
interesting. Yeah. Did Tolkien make it more?

(20:30):
You leave it as humorous as this here?
I think what it is is
it's a word we used before in the
loss
of or the biggest loss in my opinion
of Tolkien's rewritten chapter 1, 1960 rewritten chapter
1 is there's a charm to this. Right?
That it's very char it's funny, it's charming,
it's it draws you in a little bit
closer because of the the little bit of

(20:50):
tongue and cheek humor about it, but but
not that it's so tongue and cheek that
it's the Monty Python.
And and I think that adds a lot
to the value
of the tone of the story. Right. It's
not senseless tongue and cheek, but it is
funny and there's It is funny. Plenty of
there's plenty of charm, as you say, playfulness,
as I think I said last time. I
it's it's there's it's a very endearing story

(21:11):
and and a and a lot of these
little details, though most of which are funny,
are are,
are a great part of what makes it
so attractive.
Yeah. Yeah.
Alright. Well, I mean, there's not a whole
lot in this this part of chapter. I
think there's there's that
the the journey is so brief
in

(21:32):
The Hobbit, the the time it takes to
go from one location to another in words.
Like, I don't think does he even mention
in here how how many days or nights?
How far No. He doesn't. He doesn't.
If that that's what's interesting. It's clearly been
multiple days because it talks about that and
their their sleeping and eating patterns over time,
which means that you have to go for
more than a day for that to be

(21:52):
the case.
But, but there's
the it doesn't say how long and, and
it does talk about the loan lands and
and,
you know, this land, you know, between
Rivendell and
the lands of the Shire. But that's it.
That's that's the only thing it gives us.
No mention of what will later be Bree.

(22:14):
Right. So so which would have been all
along the path. And, obviously, clearly I mean,
it would have been the road that the
dwarves took. They would have gone through Brie
if there had been a Brie, but there
clearly wasn't a Brie yet. So I'm gonna
see if I can find anybody who actually
I didn't I didn't think about this here.
Just just occurred to me now.
Find somebody who actually put together like the
hobbits path versus the, fellowship's path,

(22:37):
in the 2 and see where they might
make it. Well, that would be interesting. I
the reason I said it was because they're
going to Rivendell from the Shire. So this
is Right. The road Yeah. The road to
go to Rivendell. But, like, the timing of
that, it'd be interesting to see what
what that is compared to the 2. And
and and and I think I read
I think I read
maybe it was in the annotated Hobbit

(22:58):
that,
yeah. Here it is.
In the in the in a revision that
he made in 1966,
the comment is this, this revision was made
to bring the geography of the Hobbit more
in line with that of Lord of the
Rings. This revision meaning this revision about, where
the river is Yes. Where the bridge is.
More in line with that in the Lord

(23:18):
of the Rings and specifically to introduce introduce
the ancient stone bridge called the last bridge
or the bridge of Mythical
in the Fellowship of the Rings. It was
a 3 arched bridge, the easternmost of on
the road crossing over the river Horwell, which
the elves called the Myth Athol. Myth Athol?
Myth Athol?
And Cinderin, which means grace ring. So
it's interesting that when Tolkien went back to

(23:39):
it again, we talked about that, in the
last couple weeks is that the details are
what he ends up getting back into because
those details really matter. And in his rewrite,
he's worried about a lot of these details.
And so even in the 1966 version, he
starts changing things in order to bring them
more in line with all of things, particularly
when it comes with locations,
places, distances,
things that make it more believable

(24:00):
and less fairy tale ish.
Right. The reality of geography
is interesting.
It's not a reality that brings it more
in line with the 19th century hobbit, world
of hobbits that that we've been pointing out
in the first chapter.
But it does it it makes it more
real. It's it gives it gives it gives
that,

(24:20):
that secondary world character putting in geography.
I I'd laughed when I read the original,
1937
version of the description of the loan lands
because it says in the version that we
all read, 1966
version, now they had gone far into the
low lands where there were no people left,
no inns, and the roads grew steadily worse.

(24:41):
In 1937, when the book was first published,
inns were rare and not good. The roads
were worse, and there were hills in the
distance rising higher and higher. So,
you know, I I laughed because the the
their a whole Babylon Bee, not good thing.
But,
but there was also
it was, you know, inns were rare and
not good.

(25:02):
The idea of the quality of the inns
being a point that, Tolkien brings up is
is a great concern to the British as
well. So it's a very, very British thing.
How good is
the how good are the pubs in this
place that I'm passing through? Right. So I
wanna say the one most interesting thing I
think the Tolkien
toki I have to say tokien. I always

(25:23):
say tokien because I've said it for some
years that way, but I know it's tokien.
Yep.
The one thing he didn't take out in
the 1966
edition
is this line,
talking in about, the the this is, I
guess this is
yeah. This is this is a little bit,
this is in the next chapter, but I

(25:43):
still wanna bring it up.
Tolkien writes this. Others said these parts are
none too well known and are too near
the mountains. Travelers seldom come this way. The
old maps are no use. Things have changed
for the worse and the road is unguarded.
They have seldom even heard of the king
around here and the less inquisitive are as
far as you go, the less trouble you'll
find you're likely to find. And I was
like, oh, you left that line in about

(26:04):
the king. Now it's not a capital k
king, it's a lowercase king. And I found
that really interesting that that that was a
line he left in because it feels out
of place
in the Lord of the Rings. There is
no king at this point. There's there's no
mention of a king. The Warhavans don't have
a king. The dwarves
I mean, there's no king in that area.
Right? Am I
unless he had a reason. Do you think
he had a reason for leaving that in?

(26:24):
Well,
I
yeah. I I don't know if he had
a reason, but I do know that he's
setting it's part of the I I think
it matches with the background of Lord of
the Rings. So I I think it's more
because in Lord of the Rings, there are
kings. And there was, in fact, a a
king of these lands in Arnor. This is
Yeah. This is the the shire is a

(26:44):
part of,
Arthudain in Arnor. Yeah. And and
so there's a,
there was a king. And then, historically, there
had been a king. And in fact, the
hobbits had had a, in one of the
letters or unfinished I can't even remember now
if I've read too much over the years.
But there, you know, the hobbits even had
a there was a levy. There was there

(27:04):
was like a,
a group of of sort of militia hobbit
militia that would that were Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Part of the part of the king's
army. And so that's that's a reference to
this old this king of old. And we
have the remnants of the the king's men
who are the rangers. Right? They're they're Dunedain.
They they guard the the and they and
they know Dunedain know they have the king's

(27:26):
heir in their midst. So there's there's
you're right that there's no king at the
time of Lord of the Rings over over,
Ardor.
Yeah. But
but it that's part of the history. The
hit it's a history of Kings. We even
have that you know, there's nobility and history
there with the the the race and the
barrows,
and the and, you know, with men of

(27:47):
Cardolan, for example. And and so yeah. I
I just think it's all part of part
of that background, Milu. I guess it's it's
the definitive article of the, which makes me
the king. Right. Which which goes to what
it was. They haven't heard of That is.
The kings, plural.
Because there the the king would have been
a long time ago,
and to have it there. Anyway, it's curious

(28:08):
curious. But here's the interesting thing. At the
end of the refer of the king,
it's referred to as they're returning back. Like,
the hobbits are returning to the shire and
the lands they're moving through. They make mention
of the fact, if I remember it correctly,
that it's the king has returned. Right? So
so the here's a land that remembers that
there's supposed to be a king,
over the land. And and so and so
the you know, the return of the king

(28:29):
is a real thing even in Arnor,
far far in away from the doings of
of Gondor and and, the actual events of
Lord of the Rings.
Here's one thing that wasn't part of that.
And anyway, she performed so much so that
he took it out and this was hilarious,
the reference to policemen,
in

(28:49):
1937, instead of,
these parts are none too well known and
too near the mountains. Travelers
seldom come this way,
now.
In 1937, it's policemen never come so far,
and the mapmakers have not reached this country
yet.
So so,
the the police have I mean but what
do you think he's telling kids is, like,
there's no safety

(29:10):
Exactly. And there's there's no map. There's no
way you don't know where you're going. So,
like, the fear that it wouldn't be engendered
in children because he could be could identify
with that, I think is probably the worst.
So so Tolkien defunded the the police and
it came too.
Sorry.
Oh, we're not supposed to get a polygraph.
No. I'm joking. I'm joking. I'm joking. That
was that was that was good on Michael.

(29:32):
Well
Sorry.
Alright. He removed he removed the policemen due
to their unsuitability
to for the middle earth. That's right. That's
right. Yes. They were they were no policemen.
They were have a rangers. Yeah. And they
were. Those were policemen of a type. Yeah.
Of a type? Yeah.
Yeah. Rangers. An old I would rather lone
rangers. I would rather have a lone ranger,
though,

(29:53):
than a sheriff. Alright. Well, that's gonna do
it for this week, guys. We will have
a brief extended edition here, which you can
get to by going to theoneway.com/member.
1st month is free. $4 a month. You
can get extended edition. It's pretty awesome, if
I do say so myself. We let our
hair down a little bit and tell you
about all the nitty gritty details we forgot
to mention in this. Join us.

(30:14):
Join us. Or what?
Or you'll just keep being a freeloader. Oh,
freeloaders.
Gotta love them.