July 19, 2023 • 52 mins
Do you believe in the power of potential? What if embracing it and stepping out of your comfort zone could lead to incredible opportunities? Today's episode with Caroline Labouchere is a treasure trove of insights about seizing life's transformative moments. We chat about everything from luck and preparedness to the importance of saying yes to uncomfortable situations. Our conversation uncovers the striking correlation between confidence, good fortune, and welcoming the unexpected.
But there's more to our conversation than personal development. Caroline takes us on an intimate journey into her perspectives on familial and cultural dynamics. We explore the global celebration of birthdays and their crucial role in shaping a child's self-worth. There's also a deep dive into the realm of traditional marriages, the challenges women face and the uplifting power of a supportive sisterhood.
Our journey doesn't stop there. We're also whisked away to Caroline's life in Dubai, exploring the melting pot of cultures and the city's evolving conversation on mental health. More personal stories unfold as we discuss the trials and tribulations of marriage and how adversity, like job loss, can be a catalyst for change and self-discovery. And to wrap up our enlightening dialogue, we candidly talk about menopause and how spouses can empathetically navigate these life-changing conversations. So, join us as we conclude with a fun game reflecting on our enriching conversation with Caroline Labouchere.
Follow Caroline on Instagram, Youtube and her website.
Follow @failforward.pod on Instagram
Follow our hosts @adnanbasrai & @dubai_running_dad on Instagram
Want to be a guest on the show? DM us on Instagram or LinkedIn.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Welcome
Speaker 2 (00:50):
to the fail forward podcast where Dan and Adnan peel
back the onion on our gueststories and on each other, all
in an effort to change thenarrative of failure.
Enjoy the show.
Welcome back to the failforward pod with Adnan and Dan.
Dan is out.
So it's Adnan.
And I have the honor ofspending some time today with
(01:10):
Caroline Lavoucher.
How's it going, Caroline?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Said that beautifully .
Yeah?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Great.
Good.
I'm sorry not to meet them.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
No worries.
He's here in Spirit and he issuper super excited for this
according as well.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Good.
Well, it's suddenly to youagain.
How long have we known eachother?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I would say in passing at least a decade, Wow.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Makes me feel very old.
And yes, because you were auniversity student.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Correct.
Yeah.
And I think the first time wegot to chat and meet was at the
gym when I started my own gymjourney or fitness journey ten
years ago
Speaker 1 (01:47):
-- Right.
-- at run club.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
At the wrong club.
Correct?
Yeah.
And I remember David beingthere on a bike and you
Speaker 1 (01:54):
-- Absolutely.
-- shouting out to us,
Speaker 2 (01:59):
That was a that was a good time.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
It was a good time.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Well, it's it's beautiful to kind of see how
both of us have flourished andcome back together ten years
later.
Yes.
So Caroline, you are leading ina variety of spaces in fashion,
in health and wellness, intravel, and in a variety of
other things I probably forgotto mention.
(02:22):
The core concept behind a lotof the things you do and the
things you say and believe in,and I think these are two things
that I noticed.
One is unleash your potentialand second thing is take charge
of your life or yourself.
I've been fascinated by thelike, the mental picture that
(02:42):
people have as they go throughbuilding their own brand and
themselves and, generally, thethe spirit of entrepreneurship.
It kind of almost flows from anuninformed optimism to an
uninformed pessimism andultimately to some form of
uninformed positive outlook ofwhat they're doing.
I'm curious to understand whatthe word potential has meant for
(03:04):
you and how it's changed overtime.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
I have no idea what's gonna happen tomorrow and
that's what keeps me excitedbecause I have no idea what
email I'm gonna get whatopportunity I'm going to get.
No idea and I'm open toeverything.
Mhmm.
And that is what is excitingknowing that there is so much
(03:27):
out there to do people to meetand I I have no idea.
I I don't have anything set.
No agenda.
Mhmm.
It's just all opening up infront of me.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
That's great.
Now not everyone gets the sameamount, maybe more, maybe less
of opportunities on a given day.
It can't all just be entirelyluck.
I'm curious where where doesluck fall into it?
Where does preparedness fallinto it?
What gets you to a point whereopportunity comes at your door
(04:07):
on a given day?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I think in the beginning, it was saying yes to
things that make you feeluncomfortable.
It's putting yourself out there.
And for example, when I was Iwas gonna say when I was married
today, but I'm still up tothirty two years.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Don't let that slip over
Speaker 1 (04:26):
thirty two years in August.
But I used to always want to bewith him, whatever I did.
I would never go out in theevening by myself.
I rarely didn't did anything bymyself.
I certainly wouldn't travel bymyself.
And learning that I am able aslong as he packs for me.
(04:47):
This is very good at packing,and I'm very bad at packing.
I can do go anywhere.
But it takes a leap of faith inyourself to say, I can do this.
But it is far easier to stay athome and say, but I don't have
to.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Mhmm.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
And and so I think it's believing in yourself and
also wanting more for life, morethan sitting at home and
waiting for an opportunity.
It's it's being on theinternet, it's going to
functions that you don'tnecessarily know anyone at and
being in that room where you'refeeling alone, but actually
(05:31):
going up to people andintroducing yourself and
shoulders back, I can do this.
Yeah.
You've just you've got to therewere two choices, aren't there?
There would get out there andscare yourself and do it or stay
at home and don't.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Do you have a voice in your head that you help that
helps you, you know, take thoserisky things?
Do you tell
Speaker 1 (05:52):
yourself David?
David is the voice in your head.
Yes.
Do it, babe.
Can't you can do it.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yeah.
He has a lot of confidence.
Send me more more than I do inmyself, I think.
Yeah.
Unlucky.
There we go luck again.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Right?
There there's so much there'sso much that we attribute or
ultimately we should attributeto luck.
But my philosophy in certainareas of my life is that luck
follows and touches everybody.
But it is up to you to beprepared, ready, and willing to
say yes when the option becomes.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Yes.
Exactly.
Yeah.
You you you have to say yes.
Mhmm.
And put yourself in thoseawkward moments, the
uncomfortable situations I havebeen to to events where I've
stood there and tried to makeconversation with people and it
just hasn't worked out and I --Yeah.
(06:49):
-- gone home.
But
Speaker 2 (06:52):
But it is
Speaker 1 (06:53):
You gotta keep doing it again.
Mhmm.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
It's it's more like statistics.
Right?
If x percentage of a largenumber is successful, you'll get
more opportunity.
And
Speaker 1 (07:02):
also, you were seen whether you made conversation
with people or made connection,you were still seen.
Mhmm.
As long as you had yourshoulders back, you went in
there like it going to carpool.
Yeah.
I might have gray hair, and Imight be forty eight that.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah.
I still go super confident atHarper, and I still don't know
what I'm doing there.
Yes.
So kudos to you for that.
But yeah, it's it's it's afascinating concept we're
already talking about.
But I wanna actually go back tothe time that you almost spent
in a shadow, in a shadow of,let's say, your husband.
(07:39):
Right?
All the different travels andthings you were on, did that
that length of time being insomeone shadow, did that create
certain habits and certainthings that were hard to
unchanged yourself from?
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Absolutely.
It it it's easier to be insomebody's shadow.
It's easier to follow than tolead.
And that's the way that I wasbrought up.
Although I'm a Leo, so I shouldbe a leader.
I also being in the military,it's not not my job to lead.
(08:18):
David was it was his job.
I married him, and he alreadyhad that job.
So it wasn't for me to changeanything.
I was there to do the job as awife of.
So that was my job.
Mhmm.
And I don't I wasn't that goodat it.
I think I'd probably be betterat it now because I'm much more
(08:41):
confident now and much bravernow.
Than I was because you have tostand up and talk talk in front
of the wives and you have toorganize events for them and
things.
I took them poll dancing Sothat would -- Oh, wow.
-- something to do is theColonel's life.
But I guess that was the edgethat I had but still didn't
(09:07):
follow through.
So it was sort of a reachingout of my using my own identity,
but then going back into theshadow.
So I guess maybe, as I say,that The flame has been lit
inside me.
So I think it it was alwayseverybody has a flame inside
(09:27):
them or something smoldering.
And sometimes it ignites andthat's the person that you would
have been if you were not thefollower or the groomed person.
All the way through life.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yeah.
Has it has it been a challenge?
Or like, what has the dynamicbeen having you start to lead
your own life and, you know,even for David as being more if
in certain moments a supporterand a champion or a few versus
just purely the leader of thefamily of the unit.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I think it's pressure off him because I'm not needing
I'm not as needy.
As I was.
So I think it's much like, it'seasier for him as long as I've
cooked up before, but more likeabout So he's just going to eat
too snappy.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Has he got better on timing though in the evening?
Has he come back on time?
Is the food left home?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
He rarely comes back on time and rarely tells me what
time he's gonna be home.
It depends how well he'sexercising where he's at
exercising who he's exercisingwith.
So, no, he doesn't.
And I very often want to sendher a message saying dinner is
in the dog, but Why break thehabit of a lifetime?
So he is.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yeah.
We discussed this on the callas well earlier, I'd love to
understand what are the thecommon patterns you see across
some of the women you speak withand the challenges they're
facing.
And feel free to be as specificas, you know, you're willing to
to share.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Not knowing what their passion is.
Because I think that very oftenwomen are pushed down so much.
Not in any aggressive way, notin an abusive way, just because
they're the mother of.
They're putting everyone first,so they don't come anywhere
near the top.
(11:23):
They're they're below holdingeverybody up.
So it's knowing that you are asimportant as they are.
And that's relearningeverything that's ever been that
that you have learned to be bythe way people treat you.
For example, how many mothers,I mean, everyone's going to tell
(11:45):
me, me, me, me, me, but howmany mothers get a birthday cake
?
So many women don't get abirthday cake.
And I'm thinking, what are youteaching your kids?
Your birthday doesn't matter?
Because who's gonna buy thebirthday cake for the mom?
Speaker 2 (11:59):
The mom usually buys but the mom usually buys the
birthday cake
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yes.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
But unless of our own birthdaycake, no one else is gonna buy
it for me.
Yeah.
So what is that teaching yourkids?
David, we were living in India.
Max was six months old.
We had a cook.
We had people living in thehouse looking after us, which
(12:26):
was in the best one of the bestyears of our lives.
I didn't get a birthday cake.
See, David, it wasn't up to meto go to the cook and say,
please, can have a birthdaycake, David.
My birthday it's not a surprise.
My birthday is the same dateevery year.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yeah.
And it's less about the cake.
It's more about
Speaker 1 (12:43):
-- The thought.
--
Speaker 2 (12:43):
the thought intention .
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah.
Because he has a birthday cakecake every year.
Do you have a birthday cakeevery year?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Who gets it?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Mom or friend or so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So someone who actively
Speaker 1 (12:56):
-- Yeah.
-- thinks about it.
--
Speaker 2 (12:58):
thinks about it and -- Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
--
Speaker 2 (12:59):
yeah, wants to show me that, hey, today you're
number one, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Yes.
But not many mummies, ones,number one.
But we have to look afterourselves.
That's the most important thing.
And -- Yeah.
-- make sure that we areteaching our children and also
teaching our husbands to acertain extent that we are our
own identity.
Yes.
(13:24):
We are people.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah.
I wanna share something kind ofthat I also see as a challenge
within my own culture inrelation to that.
Like, as I start spending timewith and in my life that I see
as someone I want to potentiallymarry, this whole interesting
dynamic comes about between thethe way that past generations
think and the way the futuregenerations think about what
(13:48):
marriage means.
And there are definitely setroles in society of where what
women should be in a moretraditional marriage and a
traditional culture.
And while that is notnecessarily bad for the unit
overall, It may not be ideallywhat the what the woman in the
relationship wants.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
So does she know what she wants?
Speaker 2 (14:12):
That's a that's a very very fair point because if
you impose these cultural ruleson to a marriage before it even
happens, there is no room forthe woman to even go through
that exploration.
Mhmm.
Personally, I'm the last six toseven months have been an
exploration of who I want to be,what I want to do, what I see
my future as.
But in many ways, most womenare spending their time
(14:34):
thinking, alright, who's theperson I'm going to marry?
And how am I gonna take care ofthe family and kids?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yes.
And then maybe if you have acareer, how am I gonna keep my
career?
Yeah.
And then when I have children,how am I gonna keep my career?
I want to do this.
Then they go through menopause,then they have anxiety because
all of these hormones are goingberserk.
Can I now continue?
Yeah.
It's like everything is againstyou.
(15:00):
And unless you have peoplearound you, and I often say that
it takes a village to raise achild, but it takes a unit of
women talking to each other tohelp each other through these
times.
And fifty, sixty year old womencan really help and support
younger women.
(15:21):
So don't put us out to pastureand think that you don't need us
.
You do because we've beenthrough that stuff.
Yeah.
And Keep asking questions.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Definitely.
In speaking to other women whowho share the the same journey
that you've been on, and itsounds like a lot of women are
going through.
I see you both as, you know, aleader and a speaker, but also a
network builder.
Because a lot of these women,they feel like they're alone.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Exactly.
You are so right.
They do.
They they write to me and I getso many DMs I have a highlight
on my Instagram of menopausedoctors all around the world.
I don't have that many on there.
I'm trying to grow it Ifsomebody messaged me and says, I
live in Texas, do you know amenopause doctor there?
(16:12):
I'll put it out on a story,find a doctor, and I'll add it
to that list.
Because where do you start?
You know, you you do feel alone.
Yeah.
And we can all help each otherand support each other.
I think also that there's lesscompetitiveness as you get older
because you hopefully, arelearning or becoming that person
(16:36):
.
Mhmm.
The grown up.
Yeah.
And and therefore, you don'tneed to compete because you know
yourself better.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah.
And hopefully, at least the wayI see it, as you grow, you kind
of develop some sort of unit orbase that you'd come from, be
it your family, your friendgroup, your career, that makes
you not want to try to be likesomeone else because you have
this thing that's now uniquelyyours.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yes.
Yeah.
That is true.
But we're still learning.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
We're still learning.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yeah.
I think the stops.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
I think as as I grow older and older, you almost
become much more aware of thethings you don't know and that
leads you to become much, much,more humble.
Have do you feel that it You
Speaker 1 (17:26):
don't have to know everything.
You don't have to be an expertin everything.
Yeah.
That learning that also.
You find the people who areexpert.
Mhmm.
And they can help you and youall grow together.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Who are some of the people that have helped you
outside of, let's say, the corefamily unit?
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Under doctors that I meet, I work with King's College
Hospital and meet their doctorswhen they come in.
Many from England and talk tothem about issues that women go
through men as well.
I take David Long and he getshis health check and getting an
(18:04):
angiogram, for example, knowingthat women when they have a
heart attack, they might have aheadache or a backache.
They wouldn't have that, youknow, when a person grabs their
left arm.
Yeah.
And you're like, oh my god,they're gonna have a heart
attack.
Women don't do that.
Women don't have that.
Mhmm.
So I love talking to doctorsand learning a lot.
(18:25):
I'm not next, but in any field,but I know an expert.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You do a really great job offinding people and allowing them
to share their stories.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
And people message me and say, oh, you've got to meet
this person.
So I'll go on to Instagram andsend her a message and say, oh
my gosh, you were amazing.
I need to speak to you.
You need to spread the word.
Mhmm.
Fascinating.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Have you have you ever had criticism for the work
you're doing?
Has that ever come up?
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Only for people who don't know me and don't
necessarily follow me.
So there'll be somebody saying,oh, you wear too much makeup.
Well, if you did follow me, yousee that on a daily basis, I
don't wear makeup.
Yes.
In that picture, I was wearingtoo much makeup because I had
been working with a makeupartist.
So it's generally people whodon't know me.
Yeah.
(19:18):
And if you give me a chance,oh, show you to real me.
Yeah.
But I I I'm so forgetful that Ican't pretend to be anything
else.
It's that I'd say also aboutusing a filter.
I don't use a filter because Iwould forget what filter I used
last time.
So, yeah, no filters.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yeah.
No.
And I and I think to to benever criticized means you're
just trying to be liked andwanted by everybody.
Right?
Speaker 1 (19:48):
You can't be like Yeah.
I mean, I don't like everybody.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
It's a fair point.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
So, you know, you do suspend it spend the time with
the people that you like andthey like you.
Because that are the people whowill help keep you up.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah.
Tell me about what's next, thenext one, two years.
Not not a not not a plan, butjust
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Well, I don't have any plans at Staying
Speaker 2 (20:14):
You you do have a vision board.
Right?
Speaker 1 (20:16):
I do have a vision board.
Yes.
We would like to own a place inLondon.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
That is on the vision board.
So that is a goal thathopefully we wanted to buy in
London during COVID.
But it just was insanelyexpensive.
So we ended up buying hereafter living here for twelve
years.
So we bought a house here lastyear and sense of peace.
(20:44):
The sense of security, we havebeen married, as I said, for
thirty two years in all August,and we have never owned or own
home.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
I know.
That's pretty weird.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
We we we are sad to see you leave ranches though,
but super super happy to
Speaker 1 (21:00):
see me had washman house the other day --
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
-- and they picked up her bags.
And she said, Do I recognizeyou?
And he said, yes.
I was your sincere sincere dick.
I didn't alright.
Been
Speaker 2 (21:11):
wrong.
Yes.
Yeah.
It was such a small world.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
It is.
It is But I quite like that.
Yeah.
Like, I in fact, I love to buy.
I love it probably now morethan I have and the more travel
I do.
I love coming home and my dogsare here.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah.
My own home.
Love it.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
I'm I'm not actually sure what question I wanna ask
you, but I'm just personallyfascinated about your take on
what makes Dubai unique andspecial to you in terms of like
the people maybe versus Londonand all the other places also
you spend time at?
Speaker 1 (21:47):
The people I couldn't tell you what nationality my
friends are?
I think that is somethingreally big that's here.
If you said where do most ofyour friends come from?
There is no answer to that.
Yeah.
Hey, I don't know where most ofthem come from.
(22:09):
But they're from everywherearound the world.
And we're all in the same boathere -- Yeah.
-- going through the sameissues.
So I think that's probably thebest thing -- Yeah.
-- that we are a melting pot.
Mhmm.
What else?
I I just love how forwardthinking that a session during
(22:35):
during COVID the country waslooked after -- Mhmm.
-- more than the people, and itthrived, and it is thriving,
whereas the countries that werewe're looking after their people
are not a country or in trouble.
Yeah.
So I think everything that'sdone here is just on the right
(22:56):
way.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah.
And there's there's thisbeautiful thing at least for me
coming into Dubai after whatnine years back is there's a
conversation about mental healthgoing on.
And that was something that,you know, uninformed me in the
past would have never expectedDubai to have.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Right.
Personal conversation.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Personal conversation is the right way to put it.
Right?
Conversations about the mind,about personal struggles because
it's a place that for better orfor worse, generally likes to
put out a positive, a beautiful,and a prosperous image of
itself
Speaker 1 (23:37):
-- You're absolutely.
--
Speaker 2 (23:38):
to the world.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yes.
Yeah.
When I got here twelve yearsago, I took myself off my happy
pills.
I call them happy pills.
And I thought This is it.
We're living in a sunny country.
David was in the military here.
We had a five bedroom house.
We had a swimming pool.
Why would I need happy pills?
(24:01):
And I cried.
I just kept crying.
Couldn't stop crying.
And I I went to the doctor andI went back on the pills.
And I've been on the medicines-- Mhmm.
-- because I need them.
Yeah.
And they work.
But it it it is a conversationthat really you're so right now.
(24:23):
It's it is really being talkedabout.
Mhmm.
And for a country that alwayswants to be positive, it's it is
--
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
-- good that it's noticing.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah.
And I think it will be a drawfor people to come here because
my I don't know if you feltthis, but my conversations with
people all around the word aboutDubai's you know, I I love the
place and I'd love to be a partof it, but at times it feels
fake.
And the morris and the morris.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Say that.
But it isn't fake.
It is what it is.
Yeah.
It is.
And it's blooming good at beingwhat it is.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
That's fair.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
It isn't it knows how to move a seven lane highway
overnight.
In whatever company you'redoing.
But you're driving on the hangon a second.
We weren't here yesterday, andyou realized that they moved
Shakeside Road.
Do you remember when they wereyou here when they did?
Speaker 2 (25:22):
The one in the center right when they were bringing
the creek the waterway through.
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (25:25):
They literally moved seven lanes over.
It would take how many yearswould it take in the other
country to do
Speaker 2 (25:30):
that?
Yeah.
It's it's beautiful to see Imean, on the other side of you
know, playing playing devil'sadvocate on it.
It's like the fact that thingsactually get done here.
Yes.
And coming from the US, twohundred thousand people who hate
each other or England have toall agree on something which
rarely happens.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yes.
It doesn't have then ifdecisions made, it's gonna take
four years to take it toactually make it happen.
Uh-huh.
Even after the decisiondecision has been made, and then
it wasn't the right decision.
And it's gonna take anotherfour years to to change it.
Whereas here, something can bechanged tomorrow, today.
Yeah.
(26:09):
Like like free parking on aSunday went from Friday to
Sunday just like that.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do.
I do.
I mean, there's a lot of thesethings I remember in passing
because you've you've spent inlast nine years here and seen
everything whereas A lot of it,I'm relearning as I'm back.
Right?
Speaker 1 (26:29):
There is a fake side.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I think it's becoming less though.
Oh, actually
Speaker 2 (26:36):
so much though.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
I mean, the the fake side from the from the cosmetic
point of view I think there wasless there's still a lot of
cosmetic surgery, but I see lessof the same.
Yeah.
Everybody looked the same andthere's
Speaker 2 (26:53):
There are a variety of I wouldn't even say pockets,
but there are segments ofsociety, off which what exactly
you're talking about is there,but it's one of many.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
And one thing that I love that I've developed in my
own mind is So I initially usedto live in Bordeaux, right by
the creek where the Abras andthe Old Sup was.
And I I was young, I yearned toget out of there because it's
noisy, it's old, it's dirty, andwe live in a
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Different place.
It's like a different country.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Exactly.
And those those words are notnecessarily objectively bad
words.
That's how I felt then.
And now living ranches, inranches, I really do love it.
But as a runner and as a personthat like really enjoys
discovering cities, I am alwaysdrawn back to that point of the
city which represents a very itrepresents an entirely different
(27:45):
city and way of doing things.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yes.
The Dubai, the Greek halfmarathon.
Was my favorite --
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
-- marathon.
Because you would run and you'dsmell fish and you'd see all
the fishermen and then you'd seethe boats and you'd see people
doing yoga.
I mean, it was the first time Idid it.
Mhmm.
I wasn't concentrating onrunning at all.
I was just looking around.
They saw a photoshoot up on aon a balcony going on.
I kept seeing the flash andthere was a ride standing on a
(28:14):
balcony and just it is a beastfor the eyes, though, Dubai.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Really is.
And it's a great running
Speaker 2 (28:22):
It's great.
Yeah.
And that I think that's the oneof the only races in Dubai that
is a run that's made byrunners, four runners.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Those curves are big though.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yeah.
That's a fair point.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah.
Keep big the curves.
If you're running along me, doI really have to lift my leg out
?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I know that that's actually part of, you know,
weeding the people out, actually.
It it was funny.
Last year, we we organized thetiming systems for the race.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
And on the one that I was manning, a woman slipped up
in cutter cutter knee, so Itotally get where you're coming
from.
It's just it's It's a tough onefor sure.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
The entire legs, so those those curves, I mean,
that's a great great race.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Yeah.
I wanna touch on something thatDavid spoke about at the
podcast we did with him andwould love to see if we can
elaborate on it for theaudience, but suffISHed a little
bit more for me.
He talked about how you and himmake a deliberate effort to
build and grow and maintain yourrelationship over time.
(29:24):
And he he mentioned that it'svery easy to grow apart when you
have the challenges of life,moving and all the work and
career related aspect, and thenmost importantly, raising the
kids.
How what are the differenthabits?
I wouldn't even say strategies,but really things you do that
(29:45):
have allowed you to flourish andkind of keep like those just
beautiful moments you have bothon and off camera together.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Did he mention he was away for a lot of their
childhood?
Did he mention that?
Speaker 2 (29:58):
He seems to just put that off a little bit of the
side.
I get there.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
So having been in the army, he would go off.
Mimi was two weeks old when hewent off for ten months.
So she hardly recognized himwhen he came home.
So he was away a lot when theywere little then they went
boarding school because we weremoving a lot.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
I'm so sorry.
That shouldn't
Speaker 1 (30:19):
We were moving a lot all over the world, and it
wasn't fair to keep moving thembecause they making friends and
they're not wanting to leavethem.
And I know what that feels likebecause I did the thing.
Mhmm.
I love David very much and Ilike him and I think that is key
actually liking the personbecause love can become a habit,
(30:42):
I think.
Mhmm.
It's very easy being a normalrelationship and just going with
it, accepting it the way it isbecause it's always been like
that.
Yeah.
And you do grow.
So it's easy to grow indifferent directions, especially
when one person has a hobby,you know, David has a sporting
(31:04):
thing.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Yeah.
Robbie would be putting itpolitely.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
He goes so he goes off for hours and I've been I I
was I I don't know.
He just would go away.
He goes away for hours.
He get I never seen him in themorning.
He gets up at two or three inthe morning --
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
-- especially during the summer.
And he's not there when I wakeup.
Oh, I love it when he is, thethe one night and maybe ten
days, the one morning in tendays and they're bringing me a
mug of coffee and just -- Yes.
-- that's the highlight of myday, having a cup of coffee
embedded.
Mhmm.
Love it.
What is the most importantthing?
(31:49):
I think it's respecting eachother, and I did lose respect
for David when he lost his job.
And I remember having thatfeeling of of powerlessness, and
I married him with a job.
Mhmm.
And I thought he would alwayshave a job he was in the
(32:13):
military.
You don't get fired frommilitary unless you do a really
something really bad.
And we came out here and allthe Brits were fired on that one
day.
On a Tuesday.
Oh, wow.
And he had just had hiscontract renewed, but that is
something that Dubai is able todo.
The other country is able to do.
Literally all found on theSunday because something of
(32:37):
something that happened inLondon.
So there tends to be sometimesa knee jerk reaction.
And they were all tired.
And that meant we were homeless.
I wanted to go home, just getout of dodge, and David said no,
we're staying.
And he had already booked hisflight to go to Hawaii.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
For Connor?
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Yes.
The world championships.
And I didn't think he should gobecause I want him to be at
home looking for a job not goingoff to Hawaii when I'm staying
in an empty apartment.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Okay.
You would say no.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
I was angry and disappointed.
I was incredibly selfish.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
And how how many years another relationship where
the marriage was this?
Speaker 1 (33:32):
This was here five, six years ago, something like
that.
Yeah.
So So we moved out of ranchesand we dogs at the people
carrying out as we we soldpretty much everything.
But the things that we kept, wewould dogset for people and we
(33:54):
take them with us including ourmattress for God's sake.
I don't quite know why we kepton mattress, but we did.
But it came in useful when wemoved to the empty apartment
because we stepped on themattress on the floor.
Yeah.
And Mimi, we're still with us.
So she's sleeping on the sunlounge.
Why we kept the sun lounge?
The dogs are sleeping in asuitcase.
Have one dog one half, one dogin the other half.
(34:16):
And I was angry with life.
And I remember thinking that Ididn't respect him and that
there was no coming back from it.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Yeah.
So coming coming back fromrespecting him or coming back
from the stage.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
From disrespect.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Oh, come sorry.
Coming back from disrespect.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Lost that.
In a relationship and thinkingthen it then it must be over.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
But thank goodness.
I realized that only because ofsomebody who said to me.
You need to start thinkingabout other people yourself but
other people.
Yeah.
You need to step up because hecan't.
(35:10):
He is incapable of stepping upright now.
It's not his time.
It's your time.
I said, how can I do that?
I don't have a job?
I mean, I had a part time jobworking at Jess.
As a school receptionist, butnot a money making job.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Yeah.
Not an entire family unitsupported Jeremy.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Exactly how and I never have had that.
I wasn't brought up to have acareer.
And so that was terrifying andand I was thinking I was not
able to do that.
But the realization that I needto get to take control of
myself and the way I wasthinking and not just pull me,
(35:52):
which was exactly what I wasdoing.
Paul David.
You know, how does he feel?
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
And very slowly, I think it did it let some more of
those embers inside of me andmade me braver and allowed me to
start this journey.
And I think that's what that'show it all began really.
So being right down at thebottom and thinking, I I like
(36:26):
this down here.
Yeah.
We've gotta start climbing ourway, and we are better together
at doing that than thanourselves.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
It's it's interesting how you've spent a lot of time
Like you said, certain nightscrying and feeling bad for
yourself.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
But if you look at the full spectrum now of happy
to sad or best to worst, Youwere more than likely at some
point, yes, on the bottom end ofthe average, but it wasn't
there wasn't enough motivationto really push you up.
But that specific situationwith David losing his job and
everything getting getting towhirlwind was literally you
being pressed against the bottom.
(37:04):
Yes.
So In many ways, it sounds likethat was necessary.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Yes.
I believe it was.
Yeah.
It was it was retrospectively agood thing.
I don't want it to happen again.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
It was a good thing for our relationship too because
also relationships can becomestale.
It's so easy just to existinstead of living.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
And we are both living and we're not in each
other's pockets anymore.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
These are these are very like, everything of this is
so interesting to me because asa twenty eight year old hearing
a lot of these things, gives methe tools hopefully that I can
use in my relation to make it as
Speaker 1 (37:56):
be such a good husband.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Alright.
I'm I'm gonna send this podcastto my girlfriend.
I just Perfect.
But then she's also gonna keepme accountable.
She's like, remember that thingthat Caroline said?
You're not doing it?
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Well, you know, very often, I will talk to a young
man like this and I'll say andand I already know your answer
and I was seriously impressed.
Do you know if your mother hasgone through menopause.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
She has.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
But how many men, how many of your friends know the
answer to that?
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Very few.
And and to be honest
Speaker 1 (38:36):
And are they interested?
Speaker 2 (38:38):
No.
And and to be honest, I alsomay have not given, like, had
had we not been activelyinvolved in the whole health and
treatment of my mom?
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Right.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
So I, you know, I'd like to say I'm the mature one,
but that may also not be thecase.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
It's mature.
It's a game being interested.
Yeah.
And not just in your mom, butyour wife will go through that.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
So a young man will say, well, how do I know that my
girlfriend I mean, you can'tjust turn around to your
girlfriend sale.
I think your perimenopause ormachine.
Come here if you say that.
But perimenopause can start atthirty seven.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
So you said peri
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Peri menopause.
This is before the menopause.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
So it's ten years before menopause.
You can start these symptoms.
So we start acting weird.
We women start acting weird.
But we our hormones are doingvery odd things.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yeah.
And
Speaker 1 (39:39):
It's not not many good things.
So if you can kind ofunderstand that we do some
really -- Yeah.
-- weird things sometimes wedon't really know
Speaker 2 (39:49):
what we're doing.
Yeah.
I
Speaker 1 (39:53):
But we'll hopefully come back to normal at some
point.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Yeah.
The the most, like, tangibleadvice that I have begrudgingly
and it's taken time for me toalso teach this to myself is,
I'm a very solution orientedperson.
And there was this I don't knowif it was a meme or a video or
something someone shared with mewas, you said, are you in the
solution oriented mindset or theemotion oriented mindset?
(40:18):
And it's, you know, in a funnyway, it's like, oh, someone
comes up to you and they're, youknow, talking about a problem
they're facing.
And that was the response thatwas given back to them.
And it's interesting because myresponse to some woman or
anyone for that matter coming tome with a problem is, alright,
let's figure out a solution.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
But positive.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
But not everybody wants a solution right away?
Speaker 1 (40:42):
No.
They wouldn't you get in thehole with them and feel blood,
herbal --
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
-- until they're ready to get out -- Yeah.
-- and you can get out withthem.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
And and that's been a time in my relationships in the
past where it's like, Oh, letlet let just solve it.
It's like, no.
No.
No.
I I feel closer to you.
Close.
Yeah.
I feel closer to you.
I feel like we're connected ifyou were feeling what I'm
feeling first.
And then we can work on thesolution together.
So it's it's been it's been aprocess for me to just listen.
(41:12):
And in that process, I start tounderstand.
And I understand slowly butsurely an element of the things
you're talking about that thewoman or the person or the
friend is going through?
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Yeah.
Because she's gonna say to you,you don't understand and you're
thinking that I kinda do.
And you say no, but you don'tdon't understand.
I'm telling you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can be a very good husband.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
That means that my
Speaker 1 (41:40):
son's gonna be a good husband too.
Yeah.
I do.
Because he listens to some ofmy podcasts.
My my insta lives.
Mhmm.
So you know it's all aboutmenopause, crazy women Yeah.
No.
That's that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
How how are the kids doing?
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Great.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Firstly, congratulations.
On Mimi's fabulous wedding?
Speaker 1 (42:02):
It was the best.
She looked more beautiful thanI could have imagined and it was
just perfect, although itrained all week.
We we had been looking at theweather forecast in Rome.
Yeah.
The the week before, and it's atwenty seven, twenty eight, all
week.
Suddenly the gray clouds cameout, and it rained every day.
(42:23):
And we're talking torrentialrain.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Even on the wedding itself?
Even on the wedding day.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
So we're looking on the wedding day, and it's saying
rain two, three, four PM.
And then rain three four five,and the wedding was at four
thirty.
So you can imagine many tears.
Mhmm.
And the the electric guys doingthe disco and what have you
(42:50):
sorry, lost my train of thought.
They wanted to know by seveno'clock in the morning of the
wedding if they were still gonnabe outside.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
But I don't know.
The weather forecast has rainedsomething.
But it might not rain.
What if it doesn't rain?
So yeah.
The music ended up beinginside, and it did rain
torrential.
All the all the tables beingput outside, they were all taken
back in, and then they were allbrought out while we were
having the ceremony.
Mhmm.
And the rainbow came out Oh, I
Speaker 2 (43:20):
know the perfect time too.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Yeah.
They moved the the wedding byan hour.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
And it was so incredible.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
And You must feel so proud.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
So proud.
And Kyle is he's an he's he'sjust David and Kyle can finish
each other's sentences.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
That's perfect
Speaker 1 (43:40):
to come one more than that.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
And they live here in Dubai as well?
Speaker 1 (43:43):
They do just down the road from us.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
That's perfect.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
I know.
And Max is in London.
Mhmm.
Lot of stag dues going on atthe moment.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
How often does he come back?
Speaker 1 (43:54):
It's dropping like flies.
As often as he can -- Yeah.
-- to probably twice a year.
And we try and go back -- Yeah.
-- to because we must Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
I can imagine.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
But Dave's gonna see him in Finland in August.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Nice.
Love.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
Lucky lucky him.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
I wanna end up by playing a little game with you.
Oh.
It's still more questionsbased, but it's it's a set of
question.
We can basically pick a cardand then You answer one of them?
And then either I answered aswell or you have me pick I'm
Speaker 1 (44:31):
on my reading glasses on.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
I can read it for you .
All you do is the picking.
And then
Speaker 1 (44:37):
Where do where where are these cops?
Speaker 2 (44:39):
This is called the meaning of life.
Oh.
Have you heard of somethingcalled we're not really
strangers?
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Nope.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Okay.
If you like this, I'll see ifwe can get you one.
But Okay.
Stick a card.
If you want, I can read it foryou.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
Oh, yes.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Who's disapproval do you most fear?
And is the fear justified?
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Davos, for sure.
You know, I I've always beenone of those people who lies in
bed and worries about somethingthat I've said.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Sam Zies.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Did sorry?
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Sam Zies.
Sam Zies.
Sam Zies.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
And and I don't need to.
But I do.
I I mean, it can be thesilliest thing.
It's not even important.
And David also, do you thinkthat person's thinking about
that conversation?
No.
Probably not.
Well, then why are you thinkingabout it?
Yeah.
But, yeah, if he says, youshouldn't have said that, then I
know.
I mean, trouble.
So yes, for sure.
(45:47):
Yeah.
I respect him deeply, and he istotally grounding and normal
and liked by people he's areally good guy, so we'd have to
be digging.
But by you,
Speaker 2 (46:08):
my dad, without a doubt, my dad.
Wow.
He is I would say in every wayhe's a good guy, but he is
incredibly strategic andcalculated in everything he does
.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Does that mean he doesn't have emotion?
Speaker 2 (46:27):
No.
He has he has emotion.
But that's a really, reallygood question.
I think he is still verystrategic of when he shows
emotion.
And that doesn't necessarilymean it's it's a fake emotion,
but he knows that like, when isit relevant or beneficial or
(46:49):
okay to share emotion?
And what are the times whereIt's not serving any goal or
it's not moving somethingforward.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
You should imagine being like that.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
I can't.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Yeah.
I mean, it it really works wellfor him and he loves it, which
is why there's, like, initially,I used to try to put some,
like, value to it.
I was like, oh, well, I wishyou'd express your emotions more
and be more open about them.
But I realized that that's whohe is and he does well because
if any he's good, any any lovesbeing smart about that.
And he doesn't feel likesuppressing He doesn't feel like
(47:21):
he's suppressing anything.
It's just, hey, this emotion isnot Maybe I feel it, but this
is not the outlet.
That's the right way to let itout for me and for the people
around me.
And along with that strategicand calculated mindset around
everything he does, there is a awisdom that I always see in him
.
So whenever he says somethingor he advises me on something as
(47:41):
an input on something, whetheror not I believe it myself
consciously, I subconsciouslyput a heavy weight on
Speaker 1 (47:48):
it.
Right.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Which at times has held me back.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or it's it's made it harder totake a risky move that It's not
that he doesn't approve at it,but he just says, well, you
know, maybe you wanna take thisoption instead of this.
So so it's been it's been aprocess to, like, because I do
(48:11):
want the approval, but also as aas a young man, you have to
step out from under your dad'shead.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Understood.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Quite hard when you have whenyou you have that figure.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's especially been aninteresting dynamic for me to
navigate.
Being closer to home becauseAnd
Speaker 1 (48:29):
you appreciate it more as your older understanding
him?
Speaker 2 (48:34):
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
And I don't know how far I'vetalked much about this, but the
last six, seven months beingclose to my parents, it's the
first amount of time we've spenttogether as adults.
I've got to see them at theirbest and their worst because in
the past, I was with them untilI was eighteen and a half, which
at that point they were stilljust parents in my
Speaker 1 (48:56):
So do you see them as individuals now?
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Yes.
Very, very much so.
And they've also grown in manyways.
One beautiful thing is I'vemade my good share of mistakes
along the last six, sevenmonths, you know, taking risk,
putting myself out there.
And they've always said, nomatter what we'll support you
and we believe in what you'redoing.
And that has definitely been amajor shift in their perspective
(49:20):
.
So, yeah, I'm I'm appreciativeof them.
I'm proud of them.
And, yeah, it's great to havethem around.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yeah.
I would I I'm I'm not reallyclose and my father isn't
around, but I would have likedto have had.
A relationship -- Mhmm.
-- with my parents like that.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
Mom moms around
Speaker 1 (49:44):
My lawyers.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She was at the wedding.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
Okay.
Great.
Great.
Yeah.
Are you close with her?
Speaker 1 (49:49):
No.
Not really.
Mhmm.
Not really.
Old old relationship really.
I couldn't wait to get awayfrom home when I was seventeen
--
Speaker 2 (50:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
-- and traveled Australia for a year, the
state's for a year, sorts ofthings -- Yeah.
-- but an independent personthat way.
So, yeah, no.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've I mean, it's interesting.
I've seen I guess, I'm not eventhinking about, like, whether
it's on the pod or not anyways.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Yeah.
It's But but I think the kidsare close.
Yeah.
I'm really happy that they kidsare close to us and we're all
very tactile and -- Yeah.
-- you know, I adore them tobits and I think I show them
that they are adored.
And -- Yeah.
-- Max sent me flowers when Ihit five hundred thousand on
Instagram.
Remember how cute is
Speaker 2 (50:42):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
I'm very unexpected, but -- Yeah.
-- yeah.
He just sent in the old messagesaying, well done, I watched
your pop your instead state wasgreat.
Yeah.
So
Speaker 2 (50:53):
We go cone back around it.
It's it's the intention thatcounts.
Right?
Because it tells you that he isat least once a day, he's
checking, oh, what's mom doing?
What's the most recent thingshe's passionate about that
she's put out into the world?
Yeah.
And that's that's a learningfor me too is, like, listening
to my mom and seeing, you know,yeah, seeing seeing simulations.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
Time of terror is very precious.
I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
Yeah.
You're a good son and you'regonna be a great husband.
Speaker 2 (51:24):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
Like, coronation.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
Fingers crossed, it comes true.
I'm excited.
Good.
Caroline, this has been anabsolute pleasure.
Podcast or not, like, this thishas been a very insightful and,
I don't know, warm conversationfor me and I hope it was for
you.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
Well, you, I think, are pretty nice warm human and
it shows same fun.
I think we could just keeptalking.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
Oh, hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
We hadn't even touched on our exercise routines
.
That's another story.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
Oh, man.
We can talk a lot about that,but the insight that I got from
you has already been incredible.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
Well, thank you.
Speaker 3 (52:09):
Thanks for listening.
Leave us a review.
Tell us what you think.
Find us at instagram, bale fourdot pod.
If you know someone who wantsto be on the show you wanna be
on the show, give us a shout.
DM us.
We'll see you soon.
Welcome
Speaker 2 (00:50):
to the fail forward podcast where Dan and Adnan peel
back the onion on our gueststories and on each other, all
in an effort to change thenarrative of failure.
Enjoy the show.
Welcome back to the failforward pod with Adnan and Dan.
Dan is out.
So it's Adnan.
And I have the honor ofspending some time today with
(01:10):
Caroline Lavoucher.
How's it going, Caroline?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Said that beautifully .
Yeah?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Great.
Good.
I'm sorry not to meet them.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
No worries.
He's here in Spirit and he issuper super excited for this
according as well.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Good.
Well, it's suddenly to youagain.
How long have we known eachother?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I would say in passing at least a decade, Wow.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Makes me feel very old.
And yes, because you were auniversity student.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Correct.
Yeah.
And I think the first time wegot to chat and meet was at the
gym when I started my own gymjourney or fitness journey ten
years ago
Speaker 1 (01:47):
-- Right.
-- at run club.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
At the wrong club.
Correct?
Yeah.
And I remember David beingthere on a bike and you
Speaker 1 (01:54):
-- Absolutely.
-- shouting out to us,
Speaker 2 (01:59):
That was a that was a good time.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
It was a good time.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Well, it's it's beautiful to kind of see how
both of us have flourished andcome back together ten years
later.
Yes.
So Caroline, you are leading ina variety of spaces in fashion,
in health and wellness, intravel, and in a variety of
other things I probably forgotto mention.
(02:22):
The core concept behind a lotof the things you do and the
things you say and believe in,and I think these are two things
that I noticed.
One is unleash your potentialand second thing is take charge
of your life or yourself.
I've been fascinated by thelike, the mental picture that
(02:42):
people have as they go throughbuilding their own brand and
themselves and, generally, thethe spirit of entrepreneurship.
It kind of almost flows from anuninformed optimism to an
uninformed pessimism andultimately to some form of
uninformed positive outlook ofwhat they're doing.
I'm curious to understand whatthe word potential has meant for
(03:04):
you and how it's changed overtime.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
I have no idea what's gonna happen tomorrow and
that's what keeps me excitedbecause I have no idea what
email I'm gonna get whatopportunity I'm going to get.
No idea and I'm open toeverything.
Mhmm.
And that is what is excitingknowing that there is so much
(03:27):
out there to do people to meetand I I have no idea.
I I don't have anything set.
No agenda.
Mhmm.
It's just all opening up infront of me.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
That's great.
Now not everyone gets the sameamount, maybe more, maybe less
of opportunities on a given day.
It can't all just be entirelyluck.
I'm curious where where doesluck fall into it?
Where does preparedness fallinto it?
What gets you to a point whereopportunity comes at your door
(04:07):
on a given day?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I think in the beginning, it was saying yes to
things that make you feeluncomfortable.
It's putting yourself out there.
And for example, when I was Iwas gonna say when I was married
today, but I'm still up tothirty two years.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Don't let that slip over
Speaker 1 (04:26):
thirty two years in August.
But I used to always want to bewith him, whatever I did.
I would never go out in theevening by myself.
I rarely didn't did anything bymyself.
I certainly wouldn't travel bymyself.
And learning that I am able aslong as he packs for me.
(04:47):
This is very good at packing,and I'm very bad at packing.
I can do go anywhere.
But it takes a leap of faith inyourself to say, I can do this.
But it is far easier to stay athome and say, but I don't have
to.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Mhmm.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
And and so I think it's believing in yourself and
also wanting more for life, morethan sitting at home and
waiting for an opportunity.
It's it's being on theinternet, it's going to
functions that you don'tnecessarily know anyone at and
being in that room where you'refeeling alone, but actually
(05:31):
going up to people andintroducing yourself and
shoulders back, I can do this.
Yeah.
You've just you've got to therewere two choices, aren't there?
There would get out there andscare yourself and do it or stay
at home and don't.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Do you have a voice in your head that you help that
helps you, you know, take thoserisky things?
Do you tell
Speaker 1 (05:52):
yourself David?
David is the voice in your head.
Yes.
Do it, babe.
Can't you can do it.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yeah.
He has a lot of confidence.
Send me more more than I do inmyself, I think.
Yeah.
Unlucky.
There we go luck again.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Right?
There there's so much there'sso much that we attribute or
ultimately we should attributeto luck.
But my philosophy in certainareas of my life is that luck
follows and touches everybody.
But it is up to you to beprepared, ready, and willing to
say yes when the option becomes.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Yes.
Exactly.
Yeah.
You you you have to say yes.
Mhmm.
And put yourself in thoseawkward moments, the
uncomfortable situations I havebeen to to events where I've
stood there and tried to makeconversation with people and it
just hasn't worked out and I --Yeah.
(06:49):
-- gone home.
But
Speaker 2 (06:52):
But it is
Speaker 1 (06:53):
You gotta keep doing it again.
Mhmm.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
It's it's more like statistics.
Right?
If x percentage of a largenumber is successful, you'll get
more opportunity.
And
Speaker 1 (07:02):
also, you were seen whether you made conversation
with people or made connection,you were still seen.
Mhmm.
As long as you had yourshoulders back, you went in
there like it going to carpool.
Yeah.
I might have gray hair, and Imight be forty eight that.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah.
I still go super confident atHarper, and I still don't know
what I'm doing there.
Yes.
So kudos to you for that.
But yeah, it's it's it's afascinating concept we're
already talking about.
But I wanna actually go back tothe time that you almost spent
in a shadow, in a shadow of,let's say, your husband.
(07:39):
Right?
All the different travels andthings you were on, did that
that length of time being insomeone shadow, did that create
certain habits and certainthings that were hard to
unchanged yourself from?
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Absolutely.
It it it's easier to be insomebody's shadow.
It's easier to follow than tolead.
And that's the way that I wasbrought up.
Although I'm a Leo, so I shouldbe a leader.
I also being in the military,it's not not my job to lead.
(08:18):
David was it was his job.
I married him, and he alreadyhad that job.
So it wasn't for me to changeanything.
I was there to do the job as awife of.
So that was my job.
Mhmm.
And I don't I wasn't that goodat it.
I think I'd probably be betterat it now because I'm much more
(08:41):
confident now and much bravernow.
Than I was because you have tostand up and talk talk in front
of the wives and you have toorganize events for them and
things.
I took them poll dancing Sothat would -- Oh, wow.
-- something to do is theColonel's life.
But I guess that was the edgethat I had but still didn't
(09:07):
follow through.
So it was sort of a reachingout of my using my own identity,
but then going back into theshadow.
So I guess maybe, as I say,that The flame has been lit
inside me.
So I think it it was alwayseverybody has a flame inside
(09:27):
them or something smoldering.
And sometimes it ignites andthat's the person that you would
have been if you were not thefollower or the groomed person.
All the way through life.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yeah.
Has it has it been a challenge?
Or like, what has the dynamicbeen having you start to lead
your own life and, you know,even for David as being more if
in certain moments a supporterand a champion or a few versus
just purely the leader of thefamily of the unit.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I think it's pressure off him because I'm not needing
I'm not as needy.
As I was.
So I think it's much like, it'seasier for him as long as I've
cooked up before, but more likeabout So he's just going to eat
too snappy.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Has he got better on timing though in the evening?
Has he come back on time?
Is the food left home?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
He rarely comes back on time and rarely tells me what
time he's gonna be home.
It depends how well he'sexercising where he's at
exercising who he's exercisingwith.
So, no, he doesn't.
And I very often want to sendher a message saying dinner is
in the dog, but Why break thehabit of a lifetime?
So he is.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yeah.
We discussed this on the callas well earlier, I'd love to
understand what are the thecommon patterns you see across
some of the women you speak withand the challenges they're
facing.
And feel free to be as specificas, you know, you're willing to
to share.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Not knowing what their passion is.
Because I think that very oftenwomen are pushed down so much.
Not in any aggressive way, notin an abusive way, just because
they're the mother of.
They're putting everyone first,so they don't come anywhere
near the top.
(11:23):
They're they're below holdingeverybody up.
So it's knowing that you are asimportant as they are.
And that's relearningeverything that's ever been that
that you have learned to be bythe way people treat you.
For example, how many mothers,I mean, everyone's going to tell
(11:45):
me, me, me, me, me, but howmany mothers get a birthday cake
?
So many women don't get abirthday cake.
And I'm thinking, what are youteaching your kids?
Your birthday doesn't matter?
Because who's gonna buy thebirthday cake for the mom?
Speaker 2 (11:59):
The mom usually buys but the mom usually buys the
birthday cake
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yes.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
But unless of our own birthdaycake, no one else is gonna buy
it for me.
Yeah.
So what is that teaching yourkids?
David, we were living in India.
Max was six months old.
We had a cook.
We had people living in thehouse looking after us, which
(12:26):
was in the best one of the bestyears of our lives.
I didn't get a birthday cake.
See, David, it wasn't up to meto go to the cook and say,
please, can have a birthdaycake, David.
My birthday it's not a surprise.
My birthday is the same dateevery year.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yeah.
And it's less about the cake.
It's more about
Speaker 1 (12:43):
-- The thought.
--
Speaker 2 (12:43):
the thought intention .
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah.
Because he has a birthday cakecake every year.
Do you have a birthday cakeevery year?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Who gets it?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Mom or friend or so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So someone who actively
Speaker 1 (12:56):
-- Yeah.
-- thinks about it.
--
Speaker 2 (12:58):
thinks about it and -- Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
--
Speaker 2 (12:59):
yeah, wants to show me that, hey, today you're
number one, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Yes.
But not many mummies, ones,number one.
But we have to look afterourselves.
That's the most important thing.
And -- Yeah.
-- make sure that we areteaching our children and also
teaching our husbands to acertain extent that we are our
own identity.
Yes.
(13:24):
We are people.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah.
I wanna share something kind ofthat I also see as a challenge
within my own culture inrelation to that.
Like, as I start spending timewith and in my life that I see
as someone I want to potentiallymarry, this whole interesting
dynamic comes about between thethe way that past generations
think and the way the futuregenerations think about what
(13:48):
marriage means.
And there are definitely setroles in society of where what
women should be in a moretraditional marriage and a
traditional culture.
And while that is notnecessarily bad for the unit
overall, It may not be ideallywhat the what the woman in the
relationship wants.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
So does she know what she wants?
Speaker 2 (14:12):
That's a that's a very very fair point because if
you impose these cultural ruleson to a marriage before it even
happens, there is no room forthe woman to even go through
that exploration.
Mhmm.
Personally, I'm the last six toseven months have been an
exploration of who I want to be,what I want to do, what I see
my future as.
But in many ways, most womenare spending their time
(14:34):
thinking, alright, who's theperson I'm going to marry?
And how am I gonna take care ofthe family and kids?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yes.
And then maybe if you have acareer, how am I gonna keep my
career?
Yeah.
And then when I have children,how am I gonna keep my career?
I want to do this.
Then they go through menopause,then they have anxiety because
all of these hormones are goingberserk.
Can I now continue?
Yeah.
It's like everything is againstyou.
(15:00):
And unless you have peoplearound you, and I often say that
it takes a village to raise achild, but it takes a unit of
women talking to each other tohelp each other through these
times.
And fifty, sixty year old womencan really help and support
younger women.
(15:21):
So don't put us out to pastureand think that you don't need us
.
You do because we've beenthrough that stuff.
Yeah.
And Keep asking questions.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Definitely.
In speaking to other women whowho share the the same journey
that you've been on, and itsounds like a lot of women are
going through.
I see you both as, you know, aleader and a speaker, but also a
network builder.
Because a lot of these women,they feel like they're alone.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Exactly.
You are so right.
They do.
They they write to me and I getso many DMs I have a highlight
on my Instagram of menopausedoctors all around the world.
I don't have that many on there.
I'm trying to grow it Ifsomebody messaged me and says, I
live in Texas, do you know amenopause doctor there?
(16:12):
I'll put it out on a story,find a doctor, and I'll add it
to that list.
Because where do you start?
You know, you you do feel alone.
Yeah.
And we can all help each otherand support each other.
I think also that there's lesscompetitiveness as you get older
because you hopefully, arelearning or becoming that person
(16:36):
.
Mhmm.
The grown up.
Yeah.
And and therefore, you don'tneed to compete because you know
yourself better.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah.
And hopefully, at least the wayI see it, as you grow, you kind
of develop some sort of unit orbase that you'd come from, be
it your family, your friendgroup, your career, that makes
you not want to try to be likesomeone else because you have
this thing that's now uniquelyyours.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yes.
Yeah.
That is true.
But we're still learning.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
We're still learning.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yeah.
I think the stops.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
I think as as I grow older and older, you almost
become much more aware of thethings you don't know and that
leads you to become much, much,more humble.
Have do you feel that it You
Speaker 1 (17:26):
don't have to know everything.
You don't have to be an expertin everything.
Yeah.
That learning that also.
You find the people who areexpert.
Mhmm.
And they can help you and youall grow together.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Who are some of the people that have helped you
outside of, let's say, the corefamily unit?
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Under doctors that I meet, I work with King's College
Hospital and meet their doctorswhen they come in.
Many from England and talk tothem about issues that women go
through men as well.
I take David Long and he getshis health check and getting an
(18:04):
angiogram, for example, knowingthat women when they have a
heart attack, they might have aheadache or a backache.
They wouldn't have that, youknow, when a person grabs their
left arm.
Yeah.
And you're like, oh my god,they're gonna have a heart
attack.
Women don't do that.
Women don't have that.
Mhmm.
So I love talking to doctorsand learning a lot.
(18:25):
I'm not next, but in any field,but I know an expert.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You do a really great job offinding people and allowing them
to share their stories.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
And people message me and say, oh, you've got to meet
this person.
So I'll go on to Instagram andsend her a message and say, oh
my gosh, you were amazing.
I need to speak to you.
You need to spread the word.
Mhmm.
Fascinating.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Have you have you ever had criticism for the work
you're doing?
Has that ever come up?
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Only for people who don't know me and don't
necessarily follow me.
So there'll be somebody saying,oh, you wear too much makeup.
Well, if you did follow me, yousee that on a daily basis, I
don't wear makeup.
Yes.
In that picture, I was wearingtoo much makeup because I had
been working with a makeupartist.
So it's generally people whodon't know me.
Yeah.
(19:18):
And if you give me a chance,oh, show you to real me.
Yeah.
But I I I'm so forgetful that Ican't pretend to be anything
else.
It's that I'd say also aboutusing a filter.
I don't use a filter because Iwould forget what filter I used
last time.
So, yeah, no filters.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yeah.
No.
And I and I think to to benever criticized means you're
just trying to be liked andwanted by everybody.
Right?
Speaker 1 (19:48):
You can't be like Yeah.
I mean, I don't like everybody.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
It's a fair point.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
So, you know, you do suspend it spend the time with
the people that you like andthey like you.
Because that are the people whowill help keep you up.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah.
Tell me about what's next, thenext one, two years.
Not not a not not a plan, butjust
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Well, I don't have any plans at Staying
Speaker 2 (20:14):
You you do have a vision board.
Right?
Speaker 1 (20:16):
I do have a vision board.
Yes.
We would like to own a place inLondon.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
That is on the vision board.
So that is a goal thathopefully we wanted to buy in
London during COVID.
But it just was insanelyexpensive.
So we ended up buying hereafter living here for twelve
years.
So we bought a house here lastyear and sense of peace.
(20:44):
The sense of security, we havebeen married, as I said, for
thirty two years in all August,and we have never owned or own
home.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
I know.
That's pretty weird.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
We we we are sad to see you leave ranches though,
but super super happy to
Speaker 1 (21:00):
see me had washman house the other day --
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
-- and they picked up her bags.
And she said, Do I recognizeyou?
And he said, yes.
I was your sincere sincere dick.
I didn't alright.
Been
Speaker 2 (21:11):
wrong.
Yes.
Yeah.
It was such a small world.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
It is.
It is But I quite like that.
Yeah.
Like, I in fact, I love to buy.
I love it probably now morethan I have and the more travel
I do.
I love coming home and my dogsare here.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah.
My own home.
Love it.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
I'm I'm not actually sure what question I wanna ask
you, but I'm just personallyfascinated about your take on
what makes Dubai unique andspecial to you in terms of like
the people maybe versus Londonand all the other places also
you spend time at?
Speaker 1 (21:47):
The people I couldn't tell you what nationality my
friends are?
I think that is somethingreally big that's here.
If you said where do most ofyour friends come from?
There is no answer to that.
Yeah.
Hey, I don't know where most ofthem come from.
(22:09):
But they're from everywherearound the world.
And we're all in the same boathere -- Yeah.
-- going through the sameissues.
So I think that's probably thebest thing -- Yeah.
-- that we are a melting pot.
Mhmm.
What else?
I I just love how forwardthinking that a session during
(22:35):
during COVID the country waslooked after -- Mhmm.
-- more than the people, and itthrived, and it is thriving,
whereas the countries that werewe're looking after their people
are not a country or in trouble.
Yeah.
So I think everything that'sdone here is just on the right
(22:56):
way.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah.
And there's there's thisbeautiful thing at least for me
coming into Dubai after whatnine years back is there's a
conversation about mental healthgoing on.
And that was something that,you know, uninformed me in the
past would have never expectedDubai to have.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Right.
Personal conversation.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Personal conversation is the right way to put it.
Right?
Conversations about the mind,about personal struggles because
it's a place that for better orfor worse, generally likes to
put out a positive, a beautiful,and a prosperous image of
itself
Speaker 1 (23:37):
-- You're absolutely.
--
Speaker 2 (23:38):
to the world.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yes.
Yeah.
When I got here twelve yearsago, I took myself off my happy
pills.
I call them happy pills.
And I thought This is it.
We're living in a sunny country.
David was in the military here.
We had a five bedroom house.
We had a swimming pool.
Why would I need happy pills?
(24:01):
And I cried.
I just kept crying.
Couldn't stop crying.
And I I went to the doctor andI went back on the pills.
And I've been on the medicines-- Mhmm.
-- because I need them.
Yeah.
And they work.
But it it it is a conversationthat really you're so right now.
(24:23):
It's it is really being talkedabout.
Mhmm.
And for a country that alwayswants to be positive, it's it is
--
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
-- good that it's noticing.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah.
And I think it will be a drawfor people to come here because
my I don't know if you feltthis, but my conversations with
people all around the word aboutDubai's you know, I I love the
place and I'd love to be a partof it, but at times it feels
fake.
And the morris and the morris.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Say that.
But it isn't fake.
It is what it is.
Yeah.
It is.
And it's blooming good at beingwhat it is.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
That's fair.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
It isn't it knows how to move a seven lane highway
overnight.
In whatever company you'redoing.
But you're driving on the hangon a second.
We weren't here yesterday, andyou realized that they moved
Shakeside Road.
Do you remember when they wereyou here when they did?
Speaker 2 (25:22):
The one in the center right when they were bringing
the creek the waterway through.
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (25:25):
They literally moved seven lanes over.
It would take how many yearswould it take in the other
country to do
Speaker 2 (25:30):
that?
Yeah.
It's it's beautiful to see Imean, on the other side of you
know, playing playing devil'sadvocate on it.
It's like the fact that thingsactually get done here.
Yes.
And coming from the US, twohundred thousand people who hate
each other or England have toall agree on something which
rarely happens.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yes.
It doesn't have then ifdecisions made, it's gonna take
four years to take it toactually make it happen.
Uh-huh.
Even after the decisiondecision has been made, and then
it wasn't the right decision.
And it's gonna take anotherfour years to to change it.
Whereas here, something can bechanged tomorrow, today.
Yeah.
(26:09):
Like like free parking on aSunday went from Friday to
Sunday just like that.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do.
I do.
I mean, there's a lot of thesethings I remember in passing
because you've you've spent inlast nine years here and seen
everything whereas A lot of it,I'm relearning as I'm back.
Right?
Speaker 1 (26:29):
There is a fake side.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I think it's becoming less though.
Oh, actually
Speaker 2 (26:36):
so much though.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
I mean, the the fake side from the from the cosmetic
point of view I think there wasless there's still a lot of
cosmetic surgery, but I see lessof the same.
Yeah.
Everybody looked the same andthere's
Speaker 2 (26:53):
There are a variety of I wouldn't even say pockets,
but there are segments ofsociety, off which what exactly
you're talking about is there,but it's one of many.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
And one thing that I love that I've developed in my
own mind is So I initially usedto live in Bordeaux, right by
the creek where the Abras andthe Old Sup was.
And I I was young, I yearned toget out of there because it's
noisy, it's old, it's dirty, andwe live in a
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Different place.
It's like a different country.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Exactly.
And those those words are notnecessarily objectively bad
words.
That's how I felt then.
And now living ranches, inranches, I really do love it.
But as a runner and as a personthat like really enjoys
discovering cities, I am alwaysdrawn back to that point of the
city which represents a very itrepresents an entirely different
(27:45):
city and way of doing things.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yes.
The Dubai, the Greek halfmarathon.
Was my favorite --
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
-- marathon.
Because you would run and you'dsmell fish and you'd see all
the fishermen and then you'd seethe boats and you'd see people
doing yoga.
I mean, it was the first time Idid it.
Mhmm.
I wasn't concentrating onrunning at all.
I was just looking around.
They saw a photoshoot up on aon a balcony going on.
I kept seeing the flash andthere was a ride standing on a
(28:14):
balcony and just it is a beastfor the eyes, though, Dubai.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Really is.
And it's a great running
Speaker 2 (28:22):
It's great.
Yeah.
And that I think that's the oneof the only races in Dubai that
is a run that's made byrunners, four runners.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Those curves are big though.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yeah.
That's a fair point.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah.
Keep big the curves.
If you're running along me, doI really have to lift my leg out
?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I know that that's actually part of, you know,
weeding the people out, actually.
It it was funny.
Last year, we we organized thetiming systems for the race.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
And on the one that I was manning, a woman slipped up
in cutter cutter knee, so Itotally get where you're coming
from.
It's just it's It's a tough onefor sure.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
The entire legs, so those those curves, I mean,
that's a great great race.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Yeah.
I wanna touch on something thatDavid spoke about at the
podcast we did with him andwould love to see if we can
elaborate on it for theaudience, but suffISHed a little
bit more for me.
He talked about how you and himmake a deliberate effort to
build and grow and maintain yourrelationship over time.
(29:24):
And he he mentioned that it'svery easy to grow apart when you
have the challenges of life,moving and all the work and
career related aspect, and thenmost importantly, raising the
kids.
How what are the differenthabits?
I wouldn't even say strategies,but really things you do that
(29:45):
have allowed you to flourish andkind of keep like those just
beautiful moments you have bothon and off camera together.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Did he mention he was away for a lot of their
childhood?
Did he mention that?
Speaker 2 (29:58):
He seems to just put that off a little bit of the
side.
I get there.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
So having been in the army, he would go off.
Mimi was two weeks old when hewent off for ten months.
So she hardly recognized himwhen he came home.
So he was away a lot when theywere little then they went
boarding school because we weremoving a lot.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
I'm so sorry.
That shouldn't
Speaker 1 (30:19):
We were moving a lot all over the world, and it
wasn't fair to keep moving thembecause they making friends and
they're not wanting to leavethem.
And I know what that feels likebecause I did the thing.
Mhmm.
I love David very much and Ilike him and I think that is key
actually liking the personbecause love can become a habit,
(30:42):
I think.
Mhmm.
It's very easy being a normalrelationship and just going with
it, accepting it the way it isbecause it's always been like
that.
Yeah.
And you do grow.
So it's easy to grow indifferent directions, especially
when one person has a hobby,you know, David has a sporting
(31:04):
thing.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Yeah.
Robbie would be putting itpolitely.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
He goes so he goes off for hours and I've been I I
was I I don't know.
He just would go away.
He goes away for hours.
He get I never seen him in themorning.
He gets up at two or three inthe morning --
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
-- especially during the summer.
And he's not there when I wakeup.
Oh, I love it when he is, thethe one night and maybe ten
days, the one morning in tendays and they're bringing me a
mug of coffee and just -- Yes.
-- that's the highlight of myday, having a cup of coffee
embedded.
Mhmm.
Love it.
What is the most importantthing?
(31:49):
I think it's respecting eachother, and I did lose respect
for David when he lost his job.
And I remember having thatfeeling of of powerlessness, and
I married him with a job.
Mhmm.
And I thought he would alwayshave a job he was in the
(32:13):
military.
You don't get fired frommilitary unless you do a really
something really bad.
And we came out here and allthe Brits were fired on that one
day.
On a Tuesday.
Oh, wow.
And he had just had hiscontract renewed, but that is
something that Dubai is able todo.
The other country is able to do.
Literally all found on theSunday because something of
(32:37):
something that happened inLondon.
So there tends to be sometimesa knee jerk reaction.
And they were all tired.
And that meant we were homeless.
I wanted to go home, just getout of dodge, and David said no,
we're staying.
And he had already booked hisflight to go to Hawaii.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
For Connor?
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Yes.
The world championships.
And I didn't think he should gobecause I want him to be at
home looking for a job not goingoff to Hawaii when I'm staying
in an empty apartment.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Okay.
You would say no.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
I was angry and disappointed.
I was incredibly selfish.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
And how how many years another relationship where
the marriage was this?
Speaker 1 (33:32):
This was here five, six years ago, something like
that.
Yeah.
So So we moved out of ranchesand we dogs at the people
carrying out as we we soldpretty much everything.
But the things that we kept, wewould dogset for people and we
(33:54):
take them with us including ourmattress for God's sake.
I don't quite know why we kepton mattress, but we did.
But it came in useful when wemoved to the empty apartment
because we stepped on themattress on the floor.
Yeah.
And Mimi, we're still with us.
So she's sleeping on the sunlounge.
Why we kept the sun lounge?
The dogs are sleeping in asuitcase.
Have one dog one half, one dogin the other half.
(34:16):
And I was angry with life.
And I remember thinking that Ididn't respect him and that
there was no coming back from it.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Yeah.
So coming coming back fromrespecting him or coming back
from the stage.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
From disrespect.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Oh, come sorry.
Coming back from disrespect.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Lost that.
In a relationship and thinkingthen it then it must be over.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
But thank goodness.
I realized that only because ofsomebody who said to me.
You need to start thinkingabout other people yourself but
other people.
Yeah.
You need to step up because hecan't.
(35:10):
He is incapable of stepping upright now.
It's not his time.
It's your time.
I said, how can I do that?
I don't have a job?
I mean, I had a part time jobworking at Jess.
As a school receptionist, butnot a money making job.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Yeah.
Not an entire family unitsupported Jeremy.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Exactly how and I never have had that.
I wasn't brought up to have acareer.
And so that was terrifying andand I was thinking I was not
able to do that.
But the realization that I needto get to take control of
myself and the way I wasthinking and not just pull me,
(35:52):
which was exactly what I wasdoing.
Paul David.
You know, how does he feel?
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
And very slowly, I think it did it let some more of
those embers inside of me andmade me braver and allowed me to
start this journey.
And I think that's what that'show it all began really.
So being right down at thebottom and thinking, I I like
(36:26):
this down here.
Yeah.
We've gotta start climbing ourway, and we are better together
at doing that than thanourselves.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
It's it's interesting how you've spent a lot of time
Like you said, certain nightscrying and feeling bad for
yourself.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
But if you look at the full spectrum now of happy
to sad or best to worst, Youwere more than likely at some
point, yes, on the bottom end ofthe average, but it wasn't
there wasn't enough motivationto really push you up.
But that specific situationwith David losing his job and
everything getting getting towhirlwind was literally you
being pressed against the bottom.
(37:04):
Yes.
So In many ways, it sounds likethat was necessary.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Yes.
I believe it was.
Yeah.
It was it was retrospectively agood thing.
I don't want it to happen again.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
It was a good thing for our relationship too because
also relationships can becomestale.
It's so easy just to existinstead of living.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
And we are both living and we're not in each
other's pockets anymore.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
These are these are very like, everything of this is
so interesting to me because asa twenty eight year old hearing
a lot of these things, gives methe tools hopefully that I can
use in my relation to make it as
Speaker 1 (37:56):
be such a good husband.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Alright.
I'm I'm gonna send this podcastto my girlfriend.
I just Perfect.
But then she's also gonna keepme accountable.
She's like, remember that thingthat Caroline said?
You're not doing it?
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Well, you know, very often, I will talk to a young
man like this and I'll say andand I already know your answer
and I was seriously impressed.
Do you know if your mother hasgone through menopause.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
She has.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
But how many men, how many of your friends know the
answer to that?
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Very few.
And and to be honest
Speaker 1 (38:36):
And are they interested?
Speaker 2 (38:38):
No.
And and to be honest, I alsomay have not given, like, had
had we not been activelyinvolved in the whole health and
treatment of my mom?
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Right.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
So I, you know, I'd like to say I'm the mature one,
but that may also not be thecase.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
It's mature.
It's a game being interested.
Yeah.
And not just in your mom, butyour wife will go through that.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
So a young man will say, well, how do I know that my
girlfriend I mean, you can'tjust turn around to your
girlfriend sale.
I think your perimenopause ormachine.
Come here if you say that.
But perimenopause can start atthirty seven.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
So you said peri
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Peri menopause.
This is before the menopause.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
So it's ten years before menopause.
You can start these symptoms.
So we start acting weird.
We women start acting weird.
But we our hormones are doingvery odd things.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yeah.
And
Speaker 1 (39:39):
It's not not many good things.
So if you can kind ofunderstand that we do some
really -- Yeah.
-- weird things sometimes wedon't really know
Speaker 2 (39:49):
what we're doing.
Yeah.
I
Speaker 1 (39:53):
But we'll hopefully come back to normal at some
point.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Yeah.
The the most, like, tangibleadvice that I have begrudgingly
and it's taken time for me toalso teach this to myself is,
I'm a very solution orientedperson.
And there was this I don't knowif it was a meme or a video or
something someone shared with mewas, you said, are you in the
solution oriented mindset or theemotion oriented mindset?
(40:18):
And it's, you know, in a funnyway, it's like, oh, someone
comes up to you and they're, youknow, talking about a problem
they're facing.
And that was the response thatwas given back to them.
And it's interesting because myresponse to some woman or
anyone for that matter coming tome with a problem is, alright,
let's figure out a solution.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
But positive.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
But not everybody wants a solution right away?
Speaker 1 (40:42):
No.
They wouldn't you get in thehole with them and feel blood,
herbal --
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
-- until they're ready to get out -- Yeah.
-- and you can get out withthem.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
And and that's been a time in my relationships in the
past where it's like, Oh, letlet let just solve it.
It's like, no.
No.
No.
I I feel closer to you.
Close.
Yeah.
I feel closer to you.
I feel like we're connected ifyou were feeling what I'm
feeling first.
And then we can work on thesolution together.
So it's it's been it's been aprocess for me to just listen.
(41:12):
And in that process, I start tounderstand.
And I understand slowly butsurely an element of the things
you're talking about that thewoman or the person or the
friend is going through?
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Yeah.
Because she's gonna say to you,you don't understand and you're
thinking that I kinda do.
And you say no, but you don'tdon't understand.
I'm telling you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can be a very good husband.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
That means that my
Speaker 1 (41:40):
son's gonna be a good husband too.
Yeah.
I do.
Because he listens to some ofmy podcasts.
My my insta lives.
Mhmm.
So you know it's all aboutmenopause, crazy women Yeah.
No.
That's that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
How how are the kids doing?
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Great.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Firstly, congratulations.
On Mimi's fabulous wedding?
Speaker 1 (42:02):
It was the best.
She looked more beautiful thanI could have imagined and it was
just perfect, although itrained all week.
We we had been looking at theweather forecast in Rome.
Yeah.
The the week before, and it's atwenty seven, twenty eight, all
week.
Suddenly the gray clouds cameout, and it rained every day.
(42:23):
And we're talking torrentialrain.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Even on the wedding itself?
Even on the wedding day.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
So we're looking on the wedding day, and it's saying
rain two, three, four PM.
And then rain three four five,and the wedding was at four
thirty.
So you can imagine many tears.
Mhmm.
And the the electric guys doingthe disco and what have you
(42:50):
sorry, lost my train of thought.
They wanted to know by seveno'clock in the morning of the
wedding if they were still gonnabe outside.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
But I don't know.
The weather forecast has rainedsomething.
But it might not rain.
What if it doesn't rain?
So yeah.
The music ended up beinginside, and it did rain
torrential.
All the all the tables beingput outside, they were all taken
back in, and then they were allbrought out while we were
having the ceremony.
Mhmm.
And the rainbow came out Oh, I
Speaker 2 (43:20):
know the perfect time too.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Yeah.
They moved the the wedding byan hour.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
And it was so incredible.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
And You must feel so proud.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
So proud.
And Kyle is he's an he's he'sjust David and Kyle can finish
each other's sentences.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
That's perfect
Speaker 1 (43:40):
to come one more than that.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
And they live here in Dubai as well?
Speaker 1 (43:43):
They do just down the road from us.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
That's perfect.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
I know.
And Max is in London.
Mhmm.
Lot of stag dues going on atthe moment.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
How often does he come back?
Speaker 1 (43:54):
It's dropping like flies.
As often as he can -- Yeah.
-- to probably twice a year.
And we try and go back -- Yeah.
-- to because we must Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
I can imagine.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
But Dave's gonna see him in Finland in August.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Nice.
Love.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
Lucky lucky him.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
I wanna end up by playing a little game with you.
Oh.
It's still more questionsbased, but it's it's a set of
question.
We can basically pick a cardand then You answer one of them?
And then either I answered aswell or you have me pick I'm
Speaker 1 (44:31):
on my reading glasses on.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
I can read it for you .
All you do is the picking.
And then
Speaker 1 (44:37):
Where do where where are these cops?
Speaker 2 (44:39):
This is called the meaning of life.
Oh.
Have you heard of somethingcalled we're not really
strangers?
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Nope.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Okay.
If you like this, I'll see ifwe can get you one.
But Okay.
Stick a card.
If you want, I can read it foryou.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
Oh, yes.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Who's disapproval do you most fear?
And is the fear justified?
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Davos, for sure.
You know, I I've always beenone of those people who lies in
bed and worries about somethingthat I've said.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Sam Zies.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Did sorry?
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Sam Zies.
Sam Zies.
Sam Zies.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
And and I don't need to.
But I do.
I I mean, it can be thesilliest thing.
It's not even important.
And David also, do you thinkthat person's thinking about
that conversation?
No.
Probably not.
Well, then why are you thinkingabout it?
Yeah.
But, yeah, if he says, youshouldn't have said that, then I
know.
I mean, trouble.
So yes, for sure.
(45:47):
Yeah.
I respect him deeply, and he istotally grounding and normal
and liked by people he's areally good guy, so we'd have to
be digging.
But by you,
Speaker 2 (46:08):
my dad, without a doubt, my dad.
Wow.
He is I would say in every wayhe's a good guy, but he is
incredibly strategic andcalculated in everything he does
.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Does that mean he doesn't have emotion?
Speaker 2 (46:27):
No.
He has he has emotion.
But that's a really, reallygood question.
I think he is still verystrategic of when he shows
emotion.
And that doesn't necessarilymean it's it's a fake emotion,
but he knows that like, when isit relevant or beneficial or
(46:49):
okay to share emotion?
And what are the times whereIt's not serving any goal or
it's not moving somethingforward.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
You should imagine being like that.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
I can't.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Yeah.
I mean, it it really works wellfor him and he loves it, which
is why there's, like, initially,I used to try to put some,
like, value to it.
I was like, oh, well, I wishyou'd express your emotions more
and be more open about them.
But I realized that that's whohe is and he does well because
if any he's good, any any lovesbeing smart about that.
And he doesn't feel likesuppressing He doesn't feel like
(47:21):
he's suppressing anything.
It's just, hey, this emotion isnot Maybe I feel it, but this
is not the outlet.
That's the right way to let itout for me and for the people
around me.
And along with that strategicand calculated mindset around
everything he does, there is a awisdom that I always see in him
.
So whenever he says somethingor he advises me on something as
(47:41):
an input on something, whetheror not I believe it myself
consciously, I subconsciouslyput a heavy weight on
Speaker 1 (47:48):
it.
Right.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Which at times has held me back.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or it's it's made it harder totake a risky move that It's not
that he doesn't approve at it,but he just says, well, you
know, maybe you wanna take thisoption instead of this.
So so it's been it's been aprocess to, like, because I do
(48:11):
want the approval, but also as aas a young man, you have to
step out from under your dad'shead.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Understood.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Quite hard when you have whenyou you have that figure.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's especially been aninteresting dynamic for me to
navigate.
Being closer to home becauseAnd
Speaker 1 (48:29):
you appreciate it more as your older understanding
him?
Speaker 2 (48:34):
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
And I don't know how far I'vetalked much about this, but the
last six, seven months beingclose to my parents, it's the
first amount of time we've spenttogether as adults.
I've got to see them at theirbest and their worst because in
the past, I was with them untilI was eighteen and a half, which
at that point they were stilljust parents in my
Speaker 1 (48:56):
So do you see them as individuals now?
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Yes.
Very, very much so.
And they've also grown in manyways.
One beautiful thing is I'vemade my good share of mistakes
along the last six, sevenmonths, you know, taking risk,
putting myself out there.
And they've always said, nomatter what we'll support you
and we believe in what you'redoing.
And that has definitely been amajor shift in their perspective
(49:20):
.
So, yeah, I'm I'm appreciativeof them.
I'm proud of them.
And, yeah, it's great to havethem around.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yeah.
I would I I'm I'm not reallyclose and my father isn't
around, but I would have likedto have had.
A relationship -- Mhmm.
-- with my parents like that.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
Mom moms around
Speaker 1 (49:44):
My lawyers.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She was at the wedding.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
Okay.
Great.
Great.
Yeah.
Are you close with her?
Speaker 1 (49:49):
No.
Not really.
Mhmm.
Not really.
Old old relationship really.
I couldn't wait to get awayfrom home when I was seventeen
--
Speaker 2 (50:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
-- and traveled Australia for a year, the
state's for a year, sorts ofthings -- Yeah.
-- but an independent personthat way.
So, yeah, no.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've I mean, it's interesting.
I've seen I guess, I'm not eventhinking about, like, whether
it's on the pod or not anyways.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Yeah.
It's But but I think the kidsare close.
Yeah.
I'm really happy that they kidsare close to us and we're all
very tactile and -- Yeah.
-- you know, I adore them tobits and I think I show them
that they are adored.
And -- Yeah.
-- Max sent me flowers when Ihit five hundred thousand on
Instagram.
Remember how cute is
Speaker 2 (50:42):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
I'm very unexpected, but -- Yeah.
-- yeah.
He just sent in the old messagesaying, well done, I watched
your pop your instead state wasgreat.
Yeah.
So
Speaker 2 (50:53):
We go cone back around it.
It's it's the intention thatcounts.
Right?
Because it tells you that he isat least once a day, he's
checking, oh, what's mom doing?
What's the most recent thingshe's passionate about that
she's put out into the world?
Yeah.
And that's that's a learningfor me too is, like, listening
to my mom and seeing, you know,yeah, seeing seeing simulations.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
Time of terror is very precious.
I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
Yeah.
You're a good son and you'regonna be a great husband.
Speaker 2 (51:24):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
Like, coronation.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
Fingers crossed, it comes true.
I'm excited.
Good.
Caroline, this has been anabsolute pleasure.
Podcast or not, like, this thishas been a very insightful and,
I don't know, warm conversationfor me and I hope it was for
you.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
Well, you, I think, are pretty nice warm human and
it shows same fun.
I think we could just keeptalking.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
Oh, hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
We hadn't even touched on our exercise routines
.
That's another story.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
Oh, man.
We can talk a lot about that,but the insight that I got from
you has already been incredible.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
Well, thank you.
Speaker 3 (52:09):
Thanks for listening.
Leave us a review.
Tell us what you think.
Find us at instagram, bale fourdot pod.
If you know someone who wantsto be on the show you wanna be
on the show, give us a shout.
DM us.
We'll see you soon.
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