Ever feel like life is a high stakes game where you're always teetering on the edge? You're not alone. Today's guest, David Golding, has lived it – he's battled addiction, faced down loneliness, and clawed his way back from the brink. David bravely shares how his struggles with alcohol, cocaine, and gambling spiraled into the near-destruction of his personal life and a multi-million dollar business, and the redemption that came with his journey to sobriety.
The story doesn't stop there. We dig deep into David's startling experiences with addiction and the havoc it wreaked on his relationships, featuring a revealing look into his journey through rehab and his relapse. His raw, honest account of battling his demons serves as a stark reminder of the tyranny of addiction. Yet, amidst the darkness, David found hope and motivation from a recovering peer, turning his life around and sparking a newfound gratitude for the life he now leads.
Our conversation takes a turn towards the philosophical as David opens up about his understanding of life, the universe, and his place within it all. He talks about the transformative power of acceptance and gratitude, the liberating experience of embracing one's insignificance, and the enduring journey towards recovery. His words are a testament to the extraordinary resilience of the human spirit and the beauty of taking that first, hesitant step towards change. Listen in and be inspired by David Golding's story of overcoming addiction and finding hope in the most unexpected of places.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On today's episode, we meet David Golding, a living
testament to the power ofresilience and transformation.
Battling alcohol, cocaine and agambling addiction for multiple
decades, he endured the darkeststeps of life, facing multiple
divorces and attempting to takehis own life multiple times.
Yet in the face of immensechallenges, david found the
(00:22):
courage to rise above hisstruggles From the highs of
building and running amulti-million dollar business to
the lows of personal turmoil.
David's journey is a rollercoaster of experiences.
Now, having conquered hisdemons, he leads a mental health
and substance abuse coachingservice alongside his wife in
Dubai and the UK.
Join us as we dive into David'scandid story of overcoming
(00:46):
major failures and findingredemption in his path to
success.
Welcome to the Fail Forwardpodcast, where Dan and Adnan
peel back the onion on our gueststories and on each other, all
in an effort to change thenarrative of failure.
Enjoy the show.
Welcome to the Fail Forwardpodcast with Adnan and Dan.
Dan is here remotely he's offin the UK right now for a short
(01:09):
while but we're here with ourhonored and beloved guest, david
Golding.
How are you doing, sir?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
First, thank you for inviting me.
I'm really excited to be withyou guys.
I love you guys, so this issuper.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yeah, I actually think that this was such a great
occurrence because we tried todo this entirely virtually
yesterday and, due to someconnection issues, the
alternative was doing it inperson, and I already feel like
this part is going to be great,just because of the in-person
environment.
Of course, dan, I feel likeyou're just great in-person or
virtually so.
Regardless, you're going to bea great guest and a host on the
(01:41):
podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I'm happy to be here and excited for the conversation
Fabulous.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, dan gets a virtual hug, you get a real one.
Perfect.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Okay, so we talked a little bit yesterday and I want
to kind of start off from there.
Your story is a veryinteresting one that has extreme
highs and extreme lows.
You initially had experienceswith a variety of challenges in
your early life anxiety,depression, kind of a war,
(02:11):
potentially, of self-image.
Regardless of this, youachieved quote unquote success
or at least major growth in thecrafts you engaged in.
So that was your business, thecorporate work.
You did things in life as well,with your family and kids and
such.
But it sounded like a lot of thecore issues weren't being
(02:33):
addressed and that led you to gointo certain habits that
weren't healthy long-term foryou.
That's right and that wascorrect me if I'm wrong or feel
free to add, but that wasdrinking, drugs, gambling and a
variety of other things thatwent along with that.
Sure, talk me through a littlebit of not necessarily the
(02:53):
entire journey, but feel free todo.
But I would love to hear moreabout some pivotal moments
during those that journey thatultimately led you to a point to
say, no, this is it.
I need to start changing, yes,and then maybe even the
framework or the few set ofthings you did, to start going
and pivoting towards the rightpath for you.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah, okay, well, thanks for the question.
You know we look at our past.
I look at my past to try andfigure out who I was, in an
attempt to figure out who I am.
You know that when I finallygot clean and sober, which was
in 2019, the decade prior tothat was the worst decade of my
(03:34):
life, and we talked about mychildhood, where I was
struggling to know who I was,not having the skills as a young
boy, not knowing how to makefriends, not knowing how to be
comfortable, not knowing what todo when you feel anxious.
Not knowing, not knowing, notknowing so much of those skills
that I think I used to look ateveryone around me.
(03:56):
They seemed to get these skills.
They seem to go through lifeand absorb all these challenges
and skills.
Of course, I know, know youcan't tell what somebody else is
going through, but nevertheless, as a young man, I thought
everyone else seems to be reallytogether and I'm not.
It's my secret.
I can work hard and I'm smartand I can focus on my career,
(04:20):
but my great secret was I felt afraud.
I was scared, I didn't know howto behave.
So I think that I became a bitof a social chameleon in as much
as I could wear a mask, and Ithink lots of people would
identify with wearing a mask,with pretending that
everything's okay, of putting ona suit and going to work and
(04:43):
doing a job, but then cominghome and being somebody
different.
So I fell into drugs andalcohol and gambling, and what I
mean when I say I fell into it.
I've got this notion thatthere's a slide that you
gradually go down.
You know, the disease ofaddiction is progressive and
insidious and it's slow, itcreeps up on you.
(05:06):
So lots and lots of people willsay, hey, listen, when I first
started taking cocaine, it wasgreat fun.
It was a party drug and I usedto go out and I used to have
great fun.
And then it became a problemand alcohol was really sociable
and I would go out with all myfriends and it was great fun.
And then it stopped being greatfun, yeah.
(05:27):
So I think when we talk aboutpivotal incidents, for me they
were just a general slide ofhappiness and being comfortable,
of faking it and pretendingthat everything was okay when it
wasn't.
I'm not knowing how to copewith that.
So you know, when we talk abouthow I cope, I think, because I
(05:49):
am a holic.
I'm a workaholic as well, so Ican really work hard.
So in terms of my businesssuccess, I think a lot of that
was down to my mathematical mindand thinking quickly.
But I also think it meant thatyou know if you're working 40
hours a week, I'm doing 120.
Now I'm doing triple.
(06:10):
I'll work from seven in themorning to two in the morning
and get four hours sleep andthen do it again.
So I think that there was partof that.
But to a long way of answeringyour question, I think the
pivotal moments were in thatlast 10 years and we call those
rock bottom moments inalcoholism or drug addiction the
(06:32):
moment where you've really gotto take notice.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
And that's the incident, and that's your moment
where you think, oh my gosh,I've got a problem.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Many people, like you mentioned, can relate to the
concept of wearing a face tryingto be liked and faking it, but
not everyone necessarily has thestory of slowly but surely
descending into this abyss.
Was it the work?
Was it the money?
(07:04):
Was it something thatessentially enabled this slide
to go lower and lower and lower?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Let's be honest, I think themoney was a critical factor.
Okay, so let's go back to whenI was 42 years old.
So I'd been a heavy drinker.
I just got divorced from myfirst wife.
I was successful in my career,I was a consultant working in
banking, and then I decided tostart my business.
And that was an epiphany oneday, where I just decided I've
(07:36):
had enough in this corporateworld and I quit my job and I'd
had a business idea and I put£110,000 on my credit card.
I left England, I went to theIsle of man.
I lived in a bed seat.
I'm 42.
I lived in a bed seat.
I got the number seven bus towork.
I rented a really cheap officethat was £162 a month.
(07:59):
I remember I had a companyoffice that's big enough for one
desk and two chairs and Istarted my company there and it
completely exploded and weturned over £33 million in the
first year and I bought my firstFerrari 12 weeks after I'd
started and I got my £110,000back and by six months later I
was earning more money a monththan I used to earn in a year.
(08:19):
Now that meant that all theanxiety and worries about just
having been divorced, not livingwith my sons, living away from
home, being a workaholicgambling all my money Because
that was a gamble.
It wasn't a calculated risktake, it was an out and out
gamble at 42 and it paid off interms of money.
(08:41):
So in many ways thataccelerated me into a further
decline, because now I had thepressures of running my own
business, wanting it to succeed,dealing with a failed marriage,
dealing with the fact that Iwas now on my own, desperate to
find another relationship.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
And also the evidence that gambling works in this
specific area of your life,correct?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, I'd not thought of it at the time that it was a
gamble, but that was what itwas and it completely paid off.
I think I made some gooddecisions along the way.
I mean, I wasn't always a dailyscrew-up.
I could make some really gooddecisions.
So, for example, I recognizedvery quickly that I might be
somebody who can work hard,create a business that can turn
(09:30):
over 50 million quid, but Iwasn't the guy that to run it,
to take it to the next level.
So I hired a chief executivewho was fantastic and he joined
and then he and the team helpedbuild this business into the
stratosphere.
So over the next 10 years weturned over $2 billion and I was
only an absolute fortune.
Well, of course, by then, whenI had a management team, my ego
(09:54):
got the better of me and itmeant that I could turn up when
I wanted to turn up.
And on the days that I couldn'tturn up because I was hungover
on a cocaine, come down dealingwith life I wouldn't turn up.
So that was really faking it.
You know this notion of afunctional alcoholic.
I wasn't functioning, I wasfaking it.
(10:14):
And then over the next 10 years, you know, I started my
business in 2007.
I remarried in 2009.
I remarried because I was solonely.
Absolutely that was how I felt.
I was working hard, rushingaround juggling things.
(10:36):
You know the pressures of allof those things.
You know I don't want to makeit sound like poor me.
It wasn't poor me.
I was becoming incrediblyfinancially wealthy, but
emotionally I was bankrupt.
So I met a lady, you know.
We had a whirlwind romance.
We got married.
Six weeks after we got married,I went to my first rehab
(10:59):
because I knew I was drinkingtoo much, I knew I was unhappy
and I thought actually at thattime gosh, you know, for a man
who's got as much money as ever,wanted more money than he's
ever wanted I've just bought amansion, I've just got remarried
.
I should be happy and I'm not.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Was it something about what marriage brought you,
the impact, the weight positiveand negative off marriage that
motivated your decision to go torehab?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
I think it was the tyranny of the shoulds.
I call it the tyranny of theshoulds.
When we use the word should andshouldn't, you might point the
finger and say, well, he shoulddo this, she shouldn't have done
that.
I should be doing this.
When we use the word should orshouldn't, it's a really finger
pointing thing and I was doingit to myself and it was that
(11:49):
test.
I should be happy now andalmost maybe I don't recall, but
maybe I got married, thinkingif I got married, that will fix
all my problems.
So, and it didn't, you know,and it was nothing to do with
the lady that I married.
She was lovely, it was just.
I was insane.
I was in the middle and thegrip of active addiction and I
(12:11):
had been for many years.
You know, I hadn't mentioned,but when I started having all
the money rolling in, then Ifound cocaine and that became a
new addiction for me veryquickly, I think.
I thought that you know whatrich and famous people take
cocaine, you know that's maybethat's what I've got to do.
And suddenly I've got agambling addiction and alcohol
(12:31):
addiction and a cocaineaddiction.
So I go into rehab in 2009, sixweeks after getting married,
realizing I was a mess, but Iwasn't willing to accept the
harsh realities and the truths.
You know, I got an education inrehab and they sent me on my
way after four weeks, but Ihadn't bought into the reality
(12:52):
of my situation.
And the reality was I was anabsolute alcoholic drug addict
and I was insane and I didn'tlisten.
I didn't listen to their adviceand I actually came out and
gave myself a deadline and saidif I'm not happier in six months
time, I'll carry on drinkingbecause clearly recovery isn't
(13:15):
for me.
The truth was, I didn't votemyself for recovery.
What I did was immediately bookup a private jet for all my
friends to go to Monte Carlo,stay on Eddie Irving's boat and
watch the Grand Prix.
So I'd actually booked tomyself that trip as soon as I'd
come out.
So there was no test of I'mgonna do everything and if in
(13:35):
six months it's not work, no, no, no, no.
I'd never even bought into that.
So the script at that point waswritten for me to go through
another five years of hell andthen end up back in rehab in
2014, my second stint.
That was on the back of mysecond divorce, becoming an out
(13:56):
and out cocaine addict.
Having an attempt, a seriousattempt on my life where I
nearly died.
No so around 2013,.
I'm still going down this slide.
My relationship with my wifebreaks down because of my
extreme behavior and my extremeaddictions.
We'd split up.
I'm living in an apartment onmy own and I'm looking at my
(14:20):
life Again.
The tyranny of the shoulds.
You should be happy.
Why the hell are you living onyour own again?
You've had one divorce.
Now look at you again.
And I decided to take my ownlife and I was seriously 12
hours from death after taking amassive overdose and I'd ended
up in hospital and I won'texplain what I took because I
(14:45):
don't want to give anyone theidea, but it was a horrible way
to die and actually what I'dtaken was an overdose of tablets
, a lethal dose, and it killsyour liver what I'd taken.
So it wasn't a coma, it wasn'tfalling into some fluffy, lovely
coma.
There's nothing lovely aboutsuicide.
It's awful For anyonecontemplating suicide and people
(15:07):
can't understand.
I can only explain that you areso mentally ill that you think
that killing yourself is theright answer.
That's how mentally ill peoplecan become.
And I was 12 hours from deathand the doctor said you've
killed your liver, we're gonnahave to send you to the National
Liver Unit to get a transplant.
(15:28):
But, david, I need to warn you,there are not livers on shelves
.
If you go to the livertransplant unit in 12 hours and
there is not a liver, you willdie.
If you're lucky, there will bea car crash and someone will die
and you can take their liver.
So if I were you, I would see alawyer write a will and say
you're goodbyes.
And I did that.
And then I waited for 12 hourssaying the addict's prayer.
(15:52):
By the way, whether you believeGod or don't believe God, I
believe that every addict saysthe addict's prayer, and there's
two versions of the addict'sprayer.
One version goes like this God,I want to die.
When you're in the grip ofaddiction and you've been taking
cocaine for three days andyou're having psychosis and you
want it to stop and you can'tmake it stop, you say to God I
(16:13):
want to die.
The other version of that isthat when you're close to death,
you say God, I want to survive.
So I was praying to God, pleasemake me live.
And sure enough, 24 hours later, the doctor came back and said
this is a miracle, david, yourliver has healed Overnight, you
can go home, and I went home,and then two days later it was
(16:37):
drunk on drugs and gamblingagain.
So I went back to rehab in 2014.
So my idea, radnan and Dan, isthat there's this slide, it's
getting worse now, now I'venearly died, and then I go back
to rehab again.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
One would assume in this idealistic story of how
we're thought to believe is thatyou came so close to death and
you discovered that actually youwanted to live.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
And then, coming out of that, you come with a
newfound sense of appreciation,gratitude and purpose for the
world.
But the reality is no.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
It doesn't work like that.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
The addictions are worse than that Correct.
They don't follow a typicalmovie story.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
No.
Now look, some people do havelife-changing moments.
Yeah, people face death, Forexample.
Forgive me, I hope this doesn'ttrigger anyone, but let's say,
imagine somebody has a cancerdiagnosis and they pull through
and they say that moment changedmy life, it changed my whole
attitude.
I quit my job, I decided tospend time with my grandchildren
(17:40):
.
My whole world was so shook up.
It affected me positively.
That wasn't the case for me,and I know why it wasn't.
By the way, I know why thatdidn't change me and it was
because when I went into rehabagain in 2014,.
Sure enough, I got more of aneducation.
I learned more lessons.
I found a little bit, maybe, ofunderstanding, but what I
(18:05):
needed to learn was how tobehave, such that alcohol and
drugs and gambling weren't mysolution.
So those were the problems thatI felt, the way I felt, and it
meant that the only way I couldcope with how I felt was to run
away.
What I needed to do was tolearn how to feel different.
So I went out into the madnessagain.
(18:29):
I mean, I was sober for nearlya year, but I was hanging on by
my fingertips Because DavidGolding version one had not
changed Even when I put down thedrink and the drugs.
I was the same guy, I thoughtthe same way, I behaved the same
way.
What I needed to do was have awholesale change, and I hadn't
(18:50):
done it yet.
And actually what happened wasthat I had to go through another
five years of help, and I thinkI was saying that I can tell
you that the difference, whatthe difference was.
So, in 2014, I came back outsober for a bit, remarried to my
lovely wife, christina that I'mmarried to now, who, I have to
say on air, is an absolutelovely human being, who
(19:14):
supported my recovery, and shewas just wonderful.
And we're about to launch apodcast where we're talking
about what it's like to bemarried to an addict.
But I went into the madness andthen I had another low point,
my third and final big lowpoints, if you like, and can I
just explain what that low pointwas, please, please, lovely,
(19:36):
okay.
So four more years of helptakes me to 2019.
My wife and I are so estranged.
I keep running away, I'm takingdrugs, I'm drinking every day,
I've got more money than I hadbefore, I've got a lovely wife
and a new family and a lovelychildren, yet I'm still unhappy
because I'm the same guy.
(19:56):
I'm the same guy that I was 10years before.
Nothing had changed.
Sure, I knew more.
I knew that drugs and alcoholwere killing me, but I had no
way to change.
And actually, what happened wasthat there was one final
incident that changed everything.
I left my wife.
I picked an argument with herbecause everything now was out
(20:20):
of control.
Every single part of my life wasout of control, and I ended up
for the third time in anapartment on my own, this time
with no furniture, and I'm inthis apartment thinking, oh my
God, here I am again.
I'm 54 years old, I've nowsplit up from my third wife, I'm
(20:41):
in a bloody apartment here withno furniture, and I was on my
own.
And I called my sons, who wereby then 18 and 21, and I said to
my son guys, come around onSaturday night, because I don't
want to be on my own.
I can't.
I can't stand being on my own.
And they said, okay, dad, andthey came around.
Well, with my sons there, whatwas my natural thing to do?
(21:03):
Have a bloody party.
It's completely insane.
So I bought a load of alcohol.
I got really drunk.
My son's turned up and I wasalready drunk and while my sons
were there, I thought I'm gonnabuy some cocaine.
I bought 10 grams of cocaine.
I Wrapped up a load of lines inthe kitchen and I invited my
sons into the kitchen andpointed at them and said you
(21:24):
will not be a man if you don'tknow how to take cocaine it
makes my hand sweat to say thisand my sons looked at each other
and they left and I was sodisgusted and appalled at my own
behavior that I could do thatto my sons.
I got the most important emotionthat I'd ever had, that I
(21:46):
needed, and that emotion wasdisgust.
I Was so disgusted and then Iwent outside to hang myself and
I heard a voice, and the voicesaid don't kill yourself, david,
go back to rehab.
And that was what I did.
I called my wife and said I'mgoing back to rehab.
She explains that that changedher world.
The minute I'd said I'm done,yeah, and I went back to rehab
(22:08):
and this time I was seriousbecause I knew there was no way
out.
I knew I was a dead man, I knewI was finished.
And actually what happened wasthat in that rehab they have
peer supporters, volunteers, andI'm a volunteer now.
Yeah and there was a gentlemanthere called Stuart, who was in
there with me in 2014 andSuddenly in front of me there's
(22:29):
Stuart, who'd got well and Ihadn't, and I looked at him and
thought why have you got welland why have I not?
Because I really like this guy.
He's a good guy.
Yeah he's got well.
And then I realized what I'dbeen missing all this time.
I've had enough pain.
I'd been in pain for a lifetime.
The thing that had been missingwas hope.
(22:50):
I Hadn't had the hope.
I never thought that I wasworthy of getting well.
I never thought I was, it waspossible.
I didn't believe it waspossible.
Yet suddenly in front of me wasa man who gave me all the hope
that I needed, and then Ithought I'm done.
I'm gonna do every single thingthat they say.
I'm gonna do.
Recovery like it.
(23:10):
My life depends on it becauseit did, and what I did was then,
and that's nearly four yearsago.
All I've done now is is work onrecovery, and that's why I've
ended up being a sober coach,because I love recovery.
I had to learn all thesedifferent things.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
That goes in applying the framework as you're saying
it.
Sorry Dan go ahead, actually I.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Was just gonna say that goes perfectly into the now
and today.
David and I was gonna ask howdo you feel or how are you today
?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Okay, that's a lovely question.
I think I can explain that.
Every day for me begins withone thing, and it's a really
important thing.
It's gratitude.
Okay, so I can now say I'vestood, stood on the cliff at the
gates of hell and look down andI no longer want to be David
Golding version one.
I do not want to be that man.
(24:04):
I refuse to be that man.
So now, today, I will try andbe the best version of me that I
can be.
So every day starts withgratitude.
Hey, listen, I'm a human being,by the way.
I don't sit here with a big egoand say I'm perfect, I screw up
, but if I do, I'll say sorryand make amends and I'll try and
be the best person that I canbe and give my time Willingly
(24:25):
and be grateful for everythingthat I've had.
So today, every day is full ofgratitude, and I look back on
David Golding version one,knowing that man never had a
future.
He was destined for an early,early grave and I refuse to be
him.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
What I've noticed about you, even in just today
and yesterday's interaction, isthat you express a love for
situations and people that thatI I and Anna few like not very
often seen in others, and IThink it's very much a result of
you actually having seen theworst of the world, the things
(25:03):
that it can happen and the typeof person you can become,
because Even dad and I we'vewe've had our struggles, but for
you, every day, relative to theyou know, essentially a
majority of your life, yes, islike paradise, correct?
So why aren't we, in your eyes,the best people in the world?
Why isn't this at the bestenvironment?
Why isn't this the best weather?
(25:23):
Because you could beunderground right now, correct?
Speaker 2 (25:27):
I absolutely.
What you're talking about thereis is the most beautiful
perspective that I've been givenas a gift.
You are right, there's anotherpoint there.
So I've got my own Life'sjourney, my own experiences, the
memories that and experiencesthat I can draw on to make
comparison.
I'll give you an example.
Sometimes you know if I'm havinga day that's pants, because we
(25:49):
all have a day that's pants.
Yeah, I can just very quicklyplay a movie of me offering my
son's cocaine and I'll getemotional there because no day
is as pants as that, no day isas bad as that.
In fact, every day is wonderfulcompared to some of the days
I've had and these are tears ofjoy, by the way, about how
(26:11):
grateful I am, you know, to bealive, to be able to spend time
with good people.
You know I now look for thegoodness in people and when,
throughout a lifetime of runningaway from people and not
knowing how to behave, I've nowgot such more acceptance about
Humanity.
You know I believe in theupward spiral of humanity.
(26:31):
Yeah, I believe in the goodnessof people.
Now, not everyone else, noteveryone, has got the skills.
Everyone's learning and somepeople are a bit malevolent and
dark, but I don't choose to lookat those people or spend much
time with them.
I choose to spend time withpeople who have got goodness.
So, for example, you know,growing up I think I always felt
(26:53):
victimized, that the world washorrible to me, that I didn't
like some of the people in theworld.
Actually, in the rooms ofalcoholics anonymous, and
cocaine anonymous, and narcoticsanonymous and gamblers
anonymous there are people therewho were trying their best to
become good human beings.
You know.
So, hidden in plain sight arethousands and thousands and
thousands of people who've hadstruggles and are trying to
(27:15):
prevail.
Yeah, so I've spent a decade ormore in the rooms of AA.
I've probably listened to thestories of 25,000 people and I'm
a mathematician, I calculatethese things and I've seen
thousands of people recover.
I've seen thousands of peoplewho arrived broken and suicidal
and now live beautiful,fulfilled lives, yet they still
(27:38):
want to come back and helppeople.
That's the world I want to livein.
That's the world that makes mecry with joy.
It's not sitting on the metroand seeing two people have an
argument about who's stolen aseat.
It's about the upward spiral ofhumanity men, women and
everyone holding hands with eachother and Prevailing against
(28:00):
odds.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Really important to me.
It makes me be grateful to bealive.
And and also this, this notionyou don't know what's around the
corner that I find thatexciting.
I don't know what's gonnahappen tomorrow.
You know, a few weeks ago Ididn't know that we would be
here today.
Those are the wonderful thingsin life to keep your eyes and
(28:24):
ears open and expect theunexpected.
That's so wonderful.
The script's not written.
I can do anything I want, aslong as I apply some reasonable
rules of goodness.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Man I.
The other thing I'm imaginingis, yes, you had to go through
some very, very tough times, butyou are now free in many ways
off.
Like you mentioned, the chainsyes, there are a lot of people
are current led.
Most people, maybe even Dan andI included, are still chained
to to this day.
Yes, yes, not sinking us to thebottom of the ocean, but
(29:04):
consistently just slightlykeeping us under water or
slightly just keeping us tied tothat one tree.
That's avoiding us fromventuring out and being as open
to the world as you are.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
That's.
You're right that.
So this we were talkingbeforehand about, about the
chains I was talking about, Idon't give a monkeys about
yesterday.
I'm not, I'm not bothered withyesterday.
Yesterday's gone, it's finished.
As long as there's no hangoverfrom yesterday, you know, as
long as there's no unfinishedbusiness from yesterday, like
I've not screwed anyone over,lied to any anyone, cheated them
(29:37):
, you know, and I don't do thosethings and if I mistakenly
Mislead somebody, for example,I'll go and say sorry and I'll
make amends and fix all that.
So I don't carry aroundyesterday and I was saying that
you know, maybe yesterday's likea ball and chain.
We all carry Yesterday around,so, forgive me, we don't all
carry yesterday around.
(29:57):
I carried yesterday around Likea ball and chain tied to my
foot and then expected to goswimming in the sea.
Well, it's not gonna happen.
I'm gonna drown.
And actually I had to look atall the ball and chains in my
life and and in fact many of the, the chains that are holding us
down.
They're handcuffs that we puton ourselves.
(30:18):
Yeah you know and and mixing themetaphors, but you know what we
can do is we can just cut thesechains and get rid of them
takes effort.
You know part of the work thatI do with clients and the work
that I had to do, I call itemotional Archaeology.
You know I need to go digging.
Yeah, I wanted to know whoDavid Golding was, because there
(30:38):
was some nice bits of DavidGolding that I wanted to keep,
but there were other bits of himthat weren't working and not
saying I was a good guy and abad guy, they were just bits of
me that didn't work.
Yeah, attitudes, thoughtprocesses, behaviors they all
needed to change.
I had to learn skills that Iprobably might have learned as a
(30:59):
teenager if I hadn't beendrinking alcohol.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
You know.
So this was a wholesale changein my attitude to life.
So you are right, and today Ican walk the earth a free man,
and that's really important tome.
Yeah, nothing's.
There's no drugs, alcohol orgambling or sex or porn
addiction or shopping addiction.
You know a bit too muchchocolate and probably drink a
(31:26):
bit too much coffee.
That's okay, I can work on that.
Yeah, I'm not a perfect humanbeing, but there's nothing in my
life that's changing how Ithink, except me.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
David, I want to refer back to when we first met
and it was that serendipitousmoment between four people that
all met in a coffee shop.
And I must admit when I firstmet you you look like the most
friendly, like loving, caring,kind person that I've ever met,
(32:03):
greeted with a great big hug anda smile, really warm, friendly,
but it was.
It was later on and after thatthat coffee wheel had that you
said used to find those momentsreally, really challenging and
the thought of meeting newpeople straight away in a coffee
shop.
We're just scared of livingdaylights at you and you
wouldn't see it from you.
Now, the way you talk and youaround people, such you know,
(32:25):
it's almost like it comescompletely easy to you.
But that was never an easything for you, was it?
Speaker 2 (32:33):
No, my whole life.
You absolutely right, dan.
Thank you for saying those kindwords, I think, because I'd
always felt a fraud.
I'd always been pretending tobe comfortable as opposed to
knowing how to be comfortable.
I'll give you an example.
You know my youngest son, david.
We run out of children's namesbecause we've got seven seven
(32:55):
children.
We called him.
He's called David and he'slovely.
He has no concepts of being shyor being retiring, he just is.
Yeah you know the innocence ofchildren that we see it's almost
I'd lost any innocence of howto be without Questioning myself
.
So you're right, dan, when Iwould go for meetings I would
(33:15):
have to analyze, prepare,present myself.
I would play role-playing gamesin my head in case people ask
me a question and I would needto know all the permutations of
all the answers and then, ifthey have answered a question on
that question, all thepermutations, and I would blow
my own brains in with fear ofmeeting people, because I just
(33:36):
didn't know how to behave.
And I think it was because IWas so uncomfortable with who I
was.
And I think now, maybe what yousee is authenticity.
I'm authentic, I'm acceptingthat sometimes I'll screw up and
I also don't need everyone tolove me.
I don't need everyone to likeme.
You know I used my money andwealth to buy friends.
(33:58):
Let's make no bones about that.
I gave away houses.
I gave somebody in McLaren.
I would take people on privatejets.
I would give them money andjobs.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
I was desperate to be liked and I will basically buy
people off.
You know now, if you like me,that's lovely, if you don't,
that's lovely, you know, that'sokay, I can't really affect you.
So there's the whole thingabout acceptance.
So I think I learned some newskills done.
But I needed to, because for 54years I've been a ball in a
(34:30):
pinball machine and with eachbuffer, with each flipper, it
hurt me.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Sounds like that Transition from the human doing
to the human being just justbeing.
Now you've learned to just oh.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Powerful.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
So I want to sorry.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
All I was gonna say was look, you know, we all have
bad days too.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
And I'll tell you.
I'll tell you something Ilearned in early recovery about
what to do if you have a bad day.
Okay, cuz sometimes you have abad day.
You know, stuff happens withhuman beings and the world Apex
us.
Go to bed, that's my solutiongo to bed.
I realized in early recovery mysafest place was it under under
(35:16):
a duvet, in bed.
I'm unlikely to go to anoff-license Phone, a dealer or
do anything, and there are somany times where I went to bed
at five or six in the eveningand it was because in the old
day we were trying wrestle withtoday.
I mean, I just worked hard toget out of bed.
Today.
I'm going to go to bed today,today, wrestle to get a victory
out of today, even though it's ashitty day.
(35:39):
I can't go to bed until I'vewon and I'm gonna force myself
and get on the iPad and thelaptop and fix something.
Oh, forget that.
Do you know what?
Today's?
A bit pants.
I'm off to bed, yeah, and yougo to sleep and you wake up.
And that was yesterday, and youknow my theory about yesterday.
Yeah so, actually, instead ofwrestling all the goddamn time
with the world and the universe,just let go.
I can't do much about that.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
that Today's been a bit tense and you have the most
evidence to say that, truly,what is the worst that can
happen?
You've seen the worst.
Yeah, if I don't work on thisproject today, it'll be there
tomorrow, okay.
I can't come to the podcastwithout undaunted.
Okay, what happened tomorrow?
Correct, you know it's notsuicide.
No, it's not suicide that.
(36:19):
I don't know if that would nopun intended at all, but there's
a reality to that difference,right.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yes, yeah, there's the other thing.
I think there's so many ways ofexplaining that you're right.
There's the other thing, whichis this earth is spinning at
1100 miles an hour.
Okay, that's how fast it spins.
Yeah, it's so big it takes 24hours to spin.
Once this earth is spinning,whatever I bloody do, yeah, I'm
(36:47):
insignificant to this planet inthat way and as long as I
remember my insignificance tothe importance of everything, it
means that things that areimportant to me, they're not
important to so many otherpeople in the planet.
So I'm better get a goodperspective about that.
The things that are importantto me, if I can get on and do
them and deliver them, that'sgreat.
(37:08):
But if it also means that Ihave to accept other things, I
best readily accept them.
Otherwise it's going to driveme insane.
You know to rage against theworld and what people do and
don't do, and you know we learnin recovery that we're powerless
over people, places, things andsituations.
You know we're powerless overpeople.
(37:30):
I can work with a client and tryand help them.
I've got a reliable andrepeatable program to help
people quit drinking.
Okay, all I can do issuggestions.
You know I'm not responsible.
I can't make you get sober.
I can really tell you why andeducate you and hold your hand
and do all these things.
These are only suggestions andit's down to him.
(37:52):
So you know.
And if the guy wants to listen,brilliant, if he doesn't want
to listen, brilliant.
I can't do much about that.
I'll try my hardest, but I'mnot responsible or accountable.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
You're being the steward to anyone else who needs
one.
Yeah, that's the way I see it.
Yeah, because you said I thinkthe two triggers for you that
were big ones after a decadewere your kids and the hope you
have for them.
Yes, and then the very directand tangible hope you saw in
Stuart that it is possible.
Correct, absolutely.
(38:23):
It's an absolute pleasure tosee you being that visual
embodiment of hope for others.
Bless you.
I want to end off with a littleshort game.
Okay, and it's more just anopen set of questions rather
than a game.
Yeah, it's called and you'lllove this the meaning of life,
(38:43):
meaning of life, and it's aseries of questions that,
honestly, are way more smart.
Can?
Speaker 3 (38:49):
I ask one question before we go into the game.
Yes, please.
I had it in my head and I feelare a great if I don't ask it so
we can cut this bit out and goback to it.
So we'll work on that.
David, what would you say tosomeone that is an alcoholic and
knows they're an alcoholic?
Yep, and yeah, they'restruggling at the moment, but
(39:13):
they realized that there is aproblem and they've tried to get
help, but things aren't working.
And they're still an alcoholic,but they're gradually trying to
get better each day, butthere's still a problem and they
know there's a problem.
What would you say to thatperson?
One thing, would you say it'salmost like they're aware
(39:39):
Because I think that's the firstthing, isn't it with being an
alcoholic or having an addiction, is just that awareness
straight away that there is aproblem, because without that
you can't help anyone.
They've got to help themselves.
But what would be the firstthing you would tell someone in
that position?
Maybe the position that youwere in back then?
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Okay, I know the reasons why I failed for 10
years and I've explained thatthere was a lack of hope, but
the truth was it was down toaction.
It's the same in anything,isn't it?
Nothing's going to improveunless you put some bloody
effort in.
It's not going to happen forfree.
I'm not going to get rained onwith recovery.
(40:21):
It's just I've got to dosomething, and I think the truth
is that anyone in activeaddiction that's battling what
they're really battling with isam I really an alcoholic?
Can I change?
What can I do?
It seems too difficult For mostpeople.
The problem with alcoholaddiction is what am I going to
do if I put it down?
(40:42):
How am I going to feel?
How am I going to behave?
So I think it's such a complexweb and for anyone individual
there could be many, manyreasons why they're not making
progress, but probably the briefanswer any sort of progress is
progress, anything.
So in my 10 years of hell, thetruth was I was making progress.
(41:07):
We've got this notionprofessionally in recovery.
They're called the pathways ofrecovery.
No, two people's pathway is thesame, but if you're on a
pathway that's better than not.
Okay, I can't judge someoneelse's recovery and say whether
it's good or bad.
If somebody says I'm analcoholic and I used to drink
(41:32):
three bottles of vodka a nightand now I'm only drinking two, I
would say well done, mate.
That's bloody good, that'sreally good.
I would love it if you couldget to zero.
But for today, bloody well done, because that's taken effort,
you're recognizing, you'regetting a problem, you're
improving, you're makingprogress.
(41:52):
So any sort of progress, that'ssurely the rule for humanity.
We've all got to make someprogress in any number of
different directions.
I think it's when that phrasewhich is there's none so blind
as those who won't see If peopleare in that camp, you've got no
hope.
(42:13):
In the same way, you can'treason with the unreasonable.
There's all these littlephrases I've got.
But for anyone who wants toimprove, that's the most
important thing.
The desire to improve and toput the action in, which means
any amount of progress, isbloody brilliant.
That's a miracle.
Can I just explain why it's amiracle?
(42:35):
Yes, forgive me, I know I talka lot.
I've got this idea of somethingcalled the infinite journey.
When we embark on something new, the first step is the infinite
step.
It's the hardest step to begin.
Well, why is it so hard Becauseit's the infinite journey.
If I start with a blank pieceof paper and I want to write a
(42:57):
book, beginning writing the bookgoes from zero to one version,
one, one page.
One divided by zero is infinity.
That's why it's the infinitejourney.
To go from a blank page to pageone, to go from page one to
page two, that's only 100%.
To go from page two to pagethree, well, that's only 50%.
Well, actually, the curvereally falls quickly 150, 30, 20
(43:22):
, 10.
It really falls.
The hardest page to write isthe first page.
The hardest step to take is thefirst step.
That's why it's called theinfinite journey.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
There's this one trick that I use in my life and
by no means that you know up tothe scale of the challenges
you're using it to tackle.
But when I don't want to dosomething, or when I'm
internally battling with thedecision to do the thing or
procrastinate, just do it fortwo minutes.
Just do it for two minutes,even if it sucks, even if you
(43:57):
hate it.
And there's so much power andthis is something I've been
thinking about for the lastcouple of months in momentum,
Things that are moving will staymoving, so the effort is really
just on the acceleration and ifyou realize that that's all you
need, it becomes so much easierto start doing the task and
making the change.
(44:18):
Just turn this steering wheel,just hit the accelerator, and
sometimes it's just hit thebrakes.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Yeah, yeah, and that's all action, that motion.
Newton's second law F equals MA, force equals mass times,
acceleration.
Now, to get this thingaccelerating, to get this dead
weight, this mass, accelerating,I've got to put some force into
this.
I've got to get this thingmoving.
Yeah, I mean, I've got thisother lovely idea.
(44:45):
I think there's a bit of Greekmythology or a Greek story about
a guy that has to push theboulder uphill.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Okay.
So sometimes the hardest thingswe do it's like waking up in
the morning and my job is topush this massive boulder up a
hill and I'm pushing the boulderup and it falls back down and
every time I go to bed it rollsback down to the bottom of the
hill and then tomorrow I've gotto push the boulder up the hill.
The beautiful thing about thisis that every time the boulder
(45:16):
falls down the hill, it chipslittle bits off and one day the
boulder will be a pebble.
Keep pushing the boulder up thehill.
It's not always a boulder, itgets smaller.
So even the hardest things thatyou think, I'm just pushing a
boulder up the hill every day.
(45:37):
This is the hardest thing I'veever done in my life.
Will it ever end?
Will I succeed?
This is awful.
Keep pushing the boulder.
Yeah, it gets better.
You get better.
You get fitter and stronger.
The boulder gets smaller.
You learn more.
So combine the infinite journeywhich is just begin.
I love what you said.
You just put pen to paper.
(45:58):
But if you've got a blank pieceof paper and you're writing
your book, just say this is mybook.
You've done something.
It's now no longer a blank page, just anything.
I love progress.
I've learned that progresschanged me.
We don't change overnight, andthe sooner I got off the page of
(46:20):
imagining with my impatiencethat I could fix everything in
24 hours.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
And the joy comes from the journey.
It comes from learning toprogress.
It also comes from falling over.
Yeah, you know, sometimes whenI fall flat on my face, at least
I'm moving forwards, you know,it's all right.
So I love the idea of progress.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
Yeah, and through decades of your life, you've
tried and you've tried andyou've tried again.
That's what I've.
You've not given up.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
I won't quit, no, now .
Thomas Edison said the best wayto guarantee you over is to
quit.
Yeah, yeah, I don't want toquit.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
Right, let's play this little game.
Good, so every card has aquestion on it.
Yeah, and it's likely moreinsightful, deep and thoughtful
than anything we could think of.
Okay, and for some reason, italways somehow relates well to
the topic and the personality ofthe guest.
Now, I have no idea how thatworks, but, okay, all right.
(47:22):
So why don't you pick a card?
Speaker 2 (47:24):
Okay, you've got this one.
Can you read it?
I don't have my glasses on,forgive me, what?
Speaker 1 (47:29):
might surprise people if they really knew you.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Gosh, what might surprise them?
Maybe the person that I am nowand Dan talked about it then and
said I might come across asauthentic and comfortable and
(47:56):
all of those things, but stillinside I'm not.
Still inside, I'm struggling.
Still inside, I'm working hardto be authentic because it
doesn't come naturally to me.
Yeah, so that's different fromfaking it, that's just
practicing.
Yeah, I still have to practiceand I don't think I'll ever.
I think probably the minutethat I can stroll out on stage
(48:19):
in front of 5,000 people andthink I'm brilliant, that's the
moment I've fucked it up,forgive me, that's the moment
I've screwed up where my ego'sgot too big.
So I think, yeah, I'm maybe notas confident as I might come
across as.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
It's a process that takes time and that's the thing
I've realized because to answerthe same question you answered I
am very, very similar.
I definitely appreciate beingliked by as many people as
possible, and it's taken me overtime to realize that I have
(49:00):
unique energy.
I am not normal relative toothers and, as a result, I want
to accept and I have to acceptthat a majority, statistically
speaking for anyone, a majorityof people will not like you
Because their personalities arenot essentially the equivalent
of a puzzle fit with yours, andthat's okay.
(49:22):
All you can do is build anenergy around yourself, whatever
that may be, and allow peopleto come in and out of it, stay
for as long as they wish, leaveas long as they wish and, you
know, hope that that's goodenough, I agree.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
There's a healthy attitude and understanding, in a
way of acceptance, to make surethat you haven't gotten in
balance in the way that you viewthe world and other people's
opinions.
So it's really critical aboutother people's opinions because
you touched on that.
So, for example, dan, let'spretend you've had a party, it's
your birthday party, you'vegiven a birthday party and a
(50:01):
hundred people have been invitedand when the party's over, it's
been a fantastic party,everyone's enjoyed it, they've
been singing and dancing andeveryone's smiling.
And you stand by the front doorand a hundred people leave.
The first 99 give you a hug andsay, dan, that was the
loveliest party I've ever had.
The last guy says that was ashit party and storms out.
(50:22):
How do you feel?
Do you hang on the words of thelast guy or do you hang on the
words of the 99?
Speaker 3 (50:32):
You would naturally feel pretty shit that you've had
a terrible party.
I think just from the lastcomment.
Speaker 2 (50:41):
Yeah, and I think that people would ruminate over
it.
Why did he say it was a shitparty when everyone else said it
was a great party?
And actually the truth is it'swhat Adnan just said.
I don't give a monkeys whetherhe liked the party or didn't
like the party.
I really don't.
I don't think I would ruminateover it that much.
Speaker 1 (50:59):
And I think you and I think of it in that way,
because we are also numberspeople.
What are the averages?
Oh, I got 30% of people who,like me, the average is 25 or 20
.
Am I trying too hard?
Am I trying to fake it?
Am I trying to optimize forsomething?
Speaker 2 (51:16):
I'm just overcomplicating it.
Hey, brian, didn't like theparty.
See it, brian, it doesn'tmatter.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
And he may be having a bad day too and just taking it
out on the party and you yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
Yeah, you might have a resentment.
So there's that learning about.
You know, I don't need otherpeople to.
I don't need their acceptanceor point of view to make me feel
happy.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
Yeah, Dan your input.
Speaker 3 (51:43):
Yeah, I was trying to think something that would
surprise someone.
I instantly think is there likea hobby or something you're
really into?
And I was thinking I was goingto ask that question back David
as well and say is there like ifyou could relive a moment or
something that you absolutelylove, be it going surfing or
watching a musical or something?
(52:04):
Is there anything that youabsolutely love that would
people would go?
Really, I had no idea that youwould like that.
Is there anything for you thatstands out like a hobby or
something you're into reallywill love?
Speaker 2 (52:20):
Yeah, Okay, I've got loads.
Actually there's there's lotsand lots of things that make me
smile.
I'm very fortunate enough tohave managed to afford to go to
the Maldives many, many timesand there's a favorite resort in
the Maldives.
It's called Anantara Ki Havaand I've been there often
because they've got one of thelargest telescopes in the whole
(52:40):
of that hemisphere and theresort.
I've been going there that long.
I was there before they had atelescope.
I used to talk about it.
They have a fantastic telescopeand when we go on holiday we do
stargazing and we use thetelescope at four in the morning
and see Saturn's rings and theOrion Nebula and it's absolutely
mind blowing.
(53:01):
Part of my physics background.
I'm really into cosmology and Ilook up at the stars and the
awesome, just vastness of thestars, the distances, the
numbers.
They're just the cosmic geniusof it all.
That's when I can really let go.
It grounds me.
(53:21):
I just think it's the mostbeautiful thing it would make me
cry with, because it's sobeautiful to imagine the scale
of the universe, because thisuniverse isn't accidental.
I know that it's not accidentaland that gives me hope and
serenity and many, many things.
So, yeah, my favorite place iswith my wife and my children
(53:45):
looking up at the stars in theMaldives and seeing the huge,
vast expanse of humanity laidout before me the universe and
its majestic brilliance.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
What a great way to end the pod.
Thank you so much, so much, somuch, David, for sharing your
time with us, for beingincredibly honest, open, and I
hope that this will inspireothers to you know, to change
their lives around and hopefullycome talk to you and see how
you can help them as well.
(54:18):
Bless you, I'd love to.
And where can people find youon the socials, on your website,
all of that?
Speaker 2 (54:25):
Yeah, sure, Website wwwsobaae, of course.
And on the socials, all thesocials.
I'm at Soba Coach Dubai, Loveit.
Speaker 3 (54:36):
Thanks, david, I'm going to go and bless you as
well.
Thanks, adam, thanks, dan.
I'm going to go and startrolling my bold uphill.
That's what I'm going to startdoing now.
I'm going to keep chipping itaway.
Thanks for listening.
Leave us a review, tell us whatyou think, find us at Instagram
failforwardpod.
If you know someone that wantsto be on the show, or if you
(54:57):
want to be on the show, give usa shout, dm us.
We'll see you soon.
On today's episode, we meet David Golding, a living
testament to the power ofresilience and transformation.
Battling alcohol, cocaine and agambling addiction for multiple
decades, he endured the darkeststeps of life, facing multiple
divorces and attempting to takehis own life multiple times.
Yet in the face of immensechallenges, david found the
(00:22):
courage to rise above hisstruggles From the highs of
building and running amulti-million dollar business to
the lows of personal turmoil.
David's journey is a rollercoaster of experiences.
Now, having conquered hisdemons, he leads a mental health
and substance abuse coachingservice alongside his wife in
Dubai and the UK.
Join us as we dive into David'scandid story of overcoming
(00:46):
major failures and findingredemption in his path to
success.
Welcome to the Fail Forwardpodcast, where Dan and Adnan
peel back the onion on our gueststories and on each other, all
in an effort to change thenarrative of failure.
Enjoy the show.
Welcome to the Fail Forwardpodcast with Adnan and Dan.
Dan is here remotely he's offin the UK right now for a short
(01:09):
while but we're here with ourhonored and beloved guest, david
Golding.
How are you doing, sir?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
First, thank you for inviting me.
I'm really excited to be withyou guys.
I love you guys, so this issuper.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yeah, I actually think that this was such a great
occurrence because we tried todo this entirely virtually
yesterday and, due to someconnection issues, the
alternative was doing it inperson, and I already feel like
this part is going to be great,just because of the in-person
environment.
Of course, dan, I feel likeyou're just great in-person or
virtually so.
Regardless, you're going to bea great guest and a host on the
(01:41):
podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I'm happy to be here and excited for the conversation
Fabulous.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, dan gets a virtual hug, you get a real one.
Perfect.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Okay, so we talked a little bit yesterday and I want
to kind of start off from there.
Your story is a veryinteresting one that has extreme
highs and extreme lows.
You initially had experienceswith a variety of challenges in
your early life anxiety,depression, kind of a war,
(02:11):
potentially, of self-image.
Regardless of this, youachieved quote unquote success
or at least major growth in thecrafts you engaged in.
So that was your business, thecorporate work.
You did things in life as well,with your family and kids and
such.
But it sounded like a lot of thecore issues weren't being
(02:33):
addressed and that led you to gointo certain habits that
weren't healthy long-term foryou.
That's right and that wascorrect me if I'm wrong or feel
free to add, but that wasdrinking, drugs, gambling and a
variety of other things thatwent along with that.
Sure, talk me through a littlebit of not necessarily the
(02:53):
entire journey, but feel free todo.
But I would love to hear moreabout some pivotal moments
during those that journey thatultimately led you to a point to
say, no, this is it.
I need to start changing, yes,and then maybe even the
framework or the few set ofthings you did, to start going
and pivoting towards the rightpath for you.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah, okay, well, thanks for the question.
You know we look at our past.
I look at my past to try andfigure out who I was, in an
attempt to figure out who I am.
You know that when I finallygot clean and sober, which was
in 2019, the decade prior tothat was the worst decade of my
(03:34):
life, and we talked about mychildhood, where I was
struggling to know who I was,not having the skills as a young
boy, not knowing how to makefriends, not knowing how to be
comfortable, not knowing what todo when you feel anxious.
Not knowing, not knowing, notknowing so much of those skills
that I think I used to look ateveryone around me.
(03:56):
They seemed to get these skills.
They seem to go through lifeand absorb all these challenges
and skills.
Of course, I know, know youcan't tell what somebody else is
going through, but nevertheless, as a young man, I thought
everyone else seems to be reallytogether and I'm not.
It's my secret.
I can work hard and I'm smartand I can focus on my career,
(04:20):
but my great secret was I felt afraud.
I was scared, I didn't know howto behave.
So I think that I became a bitof a social chameleon in as much
as I could wear a mask, and Ithink lots of people would
identify with wearing a mask,with pretending that
everything's okay, of putting ona suit and going to work and
(04:43):
doing a job, but then cominghome and being somebody
different.
So I fell into drugs andalcohol and gambling, and what I
mean when I say I fell into it.
I've got this notion thatthere's a slide that you
gradually go down.
You know, the disease ofaddiction is progressive and
insidious and it's slow, itcreeps up on you.
(05:06):
So lots and lots of people willsay, hey, listen, when I first
started taking cocaine, it wasgreat fun.
It was a party drug and I usedto go out and I used to have
great fun.
And then it became a problemand alcohol was really sociable
and I would go out with all myfriends and it was great fun.
And then it stopped being greatfun, yeah.
(05:27):
So I think when we talk aboutpivotal incidents, for me they
were just a general slide ofhappiness and being comfortable,
of faking it and pretendingthat everything was okay when it
wasn't.
I'm not knowing how to copewith that.
So you know, when we talk abouthow I cope, I think, because I
(05:49):
am a holic.
I'm a workaholic as well, so Ican really work hard.
So in terms of my businesssuccess, I think a lot of that
was down to my mathematical mindand thinking quickly.
But I also think it meant thatyou know if you're working 40
hours a week, I'm doing 120.
Now I'm doing triple.
(06:10):
I'll work from seven in themorning to two in the morning
and get four hours sleep andthen do it again.
So I think that there was partof that.
But to a long way of answeringyour question, I think the
pivotal moments were in thatlast 10 years and we call those
rock bottom moments inalcoholism or drug addiction the
(06:32):
moment where you've really gotto take notice.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
And that's the incident, and that's your moment
where you think, oh my gosh,I've got a problem.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Many people, like you mentioned, can relate to the
concept of wearing a face tryingto be liked and faking it, but
not everyone necessarily has thestory of slowly but surely
descending into this abyss.
Was it the work?
Was it the money?
(07:04):
Was it something thatessentially enabled this slide
to go lower and lower and lower?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Let's be honest, I think themoney was a critical factor.
Okay, so let's go back to whenI was 42 years old.
So I'd been a heavy drinker.
I just got divorced from myfirst wife.
I was successful in my career,I was a consultant working in
banking, and then I decided tostart my business.
And that was an epiphany oneday, where I just decided I've
(07:36):
had enough in this corporateworld and I quit my job and I'd
had a business idea and I put£110,000 on my credit card.
I left England, I went to theIsle of man.
I lived in a bed seat.
I'm 42.
I lived in a bed seat.
I got the number seven bus towork.
I rented a really cheap officethat was £162 a month.
(07:59):
I remember I had a companyoffice that's big enough for one
desk and two chairs and Istarted my company there and it
completely exploded and weturned over £33 million in the
first year and I bought my firstFerrari 12 weeks after I'd
started and I got my £110,000back and by six months later I
was earning more money a monththan I used to earn in a year.
(08:19):
Now that meant that all theanxiety and worries about just
having been divorced, not livingwith my sons, living away from
home, being a workaholicgambling all my money Because
that was a gamble.
It wasn't a calculated risktake, it was an out and out
gamble at 42 and it paid off interms of money.
(08:41):
So in many ways thataccelerated me into a further
decline, because now I had thepressures of running my own
business, wanting it to succeed,dealing with a failed marriage,
dealing with the fact that Iwas now on my own, desperate to
find another relationship.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
And also the evidence that gambling works in this
specific area of your life,correct?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, I'd not thought of it at the time that it was a
gamble, but that was what itwas and it completely paid off.
I think I made some gooddecisions along the way.
I mean, I wasn't always a dailyscrew-up.
I could make some really gooddecisions.
So, for example, I recognizedvery quickly that I might be
somebody who can work hard,create a business that can turn
(09:30):
over 50 million quid, but Iwasn't the guy that to run it,
to take it to the next level.
So I hired a chief executivewho was fantastic and he joined
and then he and the team helpedbuild this business into the
stratosphere.
So over the next 10 years weturned over $2 billion and I was
only an absolute fortune.
Well, of course, by then, whenI had a management team, my ego
(09:54):
got the better of me and itmeant that I could turn up when
I wanted to turn up.
And on the days that I couldn'tturn up because I was hungover
on a cocaine, come down dealingwith life I wouldn't turn up.
So that was really faking it.
You know this notion of afunctional alcoholic.
I wasn't functioning, I wasfaking it.
(10:14):
And then over the next 10 years, you know, I started my
business in 2007.
I remarried in 2009.
I remarried because I was solonely.
Absolutely that was how I felt.
I was working hard, rushingaround juggling things.
(10:36):
You know the pressures of allof those things.
You know I don't want to makeit sound like poor me.
It wasn't poor me.
I was becoming incrediblyfinancially wealthy, but
emotionally I was bankrupt.
So I met a lady, you know.
We had a whirlwind romance.
We got married.
Six weeks after we got married,I went to my first rehab
(10:59):
because I knew I was drinkingtoo much, I knew I was unhappy
and I thought actually at thattime gosh, you know, for a man
who's got as much money as ever,wanted more money than he's
ever wanted I've just bought amansion, I've just got remarried
.
I should be happy and I'm not.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Was it something about what marriage brought you,
the impact, the weight positiveand negative off marriage that
motivated your decision to go torehab?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
I think it was the tyranny of the shoulds.
I call it the tyranny of theshoulds.
When we use the word should andshouldn't, you might point the
finger and say, well, he shoulddo this, she shouldn't have done
that.
I should be doing this.
When we use the word should orshouldn't, it's a really finger
pointing thing and I was doingit to myself and it was that
(11:49):
test.
I should be happy now andalmost maybe I don't recall, but
maybe I got married, thinkingif I got married, that will fix
all my problems.
So, and it didn't, you know,and it was nothing to do with
the lady that I married.
She was lovely, it was just.
I was insane.
I was in the middle and thegrip of active addiction and I
(12:11):
had been for many years.
You know, I hadn't mentioned,but when I started having all
the money rolling in, then Ifound cocaine and that became a
new addiction for me veryquickly, I think.
I thought that you know whatrich and famous people take
cocaine, you know that's maybethat's what I've got to do.
And suddenly I've got agambling addiction and alcohol
(12:31):
addiction and a cocaineaddiction.
So I go into rehab in 2009, sixweeks after getting married,
realizing I was a mess, but Iwasn't willing to accept the
harsh realities and the truths.
You know, I got an education inrehab and they sent me on my
way after four weeks, but Ihadn't bought into the reality
(12:52):
of my situation.
And the reality was I was anabsolute alcoholic drug addict
and I was insane and I didn'tlisten.
I didn't listen to their adviceand I actually came out and
gave myself a deadline and saidif I'm not happier in six months
time, I'll carry on drinkingbecause clearly recovery isn't
(13:15):
for me.
The truth was, I didn't votemyself for recovery.
What I did was immediately bookup a private jet for all my
friends to go to Monte Carlo,stay on Eddie Irving's boat and
watch the Grand Prix.
So I'd actually booked tomyself that trip as soon as I'd
come out.
So there was no test of I'mgonna do everything and if in
(13:35):
six months it's not work, no, no, no, no.
I'd never even bought into that.
So the script at that point waswritten for me to go through
another five years of hell andthen end up back in rehab in
2014, my second stint.
That was on the back of mysecond divorce, becoming an out
(13:56):
and out cocaine addict.
Having an attempt, a seriousattempt on my life where I
nearly died.
No so around 2013,.
I'm still going down this slide.
My relationship with my wifebreaks down because of my
extreme behavior and my extremeaddictions.
We'd split up.
I'm living in an apartment onmy own and I'm looking at my
(14:20):
life Again.
The tyranny of the shoulds.
You should be happy.
Why the hell are you living onyour own again?
You've had one divorce.
Now look at you again.
And I decided to take my ownlife and I was seriously 12
hours from death after taking amassive overdose and I'd ended
up in hospital and I won'texplain what I took because I
(14:45):
don't want to give anyone theidea, but it was a horrible way
to die and actually what I'dtaken was an overdose of tablets
, a lethal dose, and it killsyour liver what I'd taken.
So it wasn't a coma, it wasn'tfalling into some fluffy, lovely
coma.
There's nothing lovely aboutsuicide.
It's awful For anyonecontemplating suicide and people
(15:07):
can't understand.
I can only explain that you areso mentally ill that you think
that killing yourself is theright answer.
That's how mentally ill peoplecan become.
And I was 12 hours from deathand the doctor said you've
killed your liver, we're gonnahave to send you to the National
Liver Unit to get a transplant.
(15:28):
But, david, I need to warn you,there are not livers on shelves
.
If you go to the livertransplant unit in 12 hours and
there is not a liver, you willdie.
If you're lucky, there will bea car crash and someone will die
and you can take their liver.
So if I were you, I would see alawyer write a will and say
you're goodbyes.
And I did that.
And then I waited for 12 hourssaying the addict's prayer.
(15:52):
By the way, whether you believeGod or don't believe God, I
believe that every addict saysthe addict's prayer, and there's
two versions of the addict'sprayer.
One version goes like this God,I want to die.
When you're in the grip ofaddiction and you've been taking
cocaine for three days andyou're having psychosis and you
want it to stop and you can'tmake it stop, you say to God I
(16:13):
want to die.
The other version of that isthat when you're close to death,
you say God, I want to survive.
So I was praying to God, pleasemake me live.
And sure enough, 24 hours later, the doctor came back and said
this is a miracle, david, yourliver has healed Overnight, you
can go home, and I went home,and then two days later it was
(16:37):
drunk on drugs and gamblingagain.
So I went back to rehab in 2014.
So my idea, radnan and Dan, isthat there's this slide, it's
getting worse now, now I'venearly died, and then I go back
to rehab again.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
One would assume in this idealistic story of how
we're thought to believe is thatyou came so close to death and
you discovered that actually youwanted to live.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
And then, coming out of that, you come with a
newfound sense of appreciation,gratitude and purpose for the
world.
But the reality is no.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
It doesn't work like that.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
The addictions are worse than that Correct.
They don't follow a typicalmovie story.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
No.
Now look, some people do havelife-changing moments.
Yeah, people face death, Forexample.
Forgive me, I hope this doesn'ttrigger anyone, but let's say,
imagine somebody has a cancerdiagnosis and they pull through
and they say that moment changedmy life, it changed my whole
attitude.
I quit my job, I decided tospend time with my grandchildren
(17:40):
.
My whole world was so shook up.
It affected me positively.
That wasn't the case for me,and I know why it wasn't.
By the way, I know why thatdidn't change me and it was
because when I went into rehabagain in 2014,.
Sure enough, I got more of aneducation.
I learned more lessons.
I found a little bit, maybe, ofunderstanding, but what I
(18:05):
needed to learn was how tobehave, such that alcohol and
drugs and gambling weren't mysolution.
So those were the problems thatI felt, the way I felt, and it
meant that the only way I couldcope with how I felt was to run
away.
What I needed to do was tolearn how to feel different.
So I went out into the madnessagain.
(18:29):
I mean, I was sober for nearlya year, but I was hanging on by
my fingertips Because DavidGolding version one had not
changed Even when I put down thedrink and the drugs.
I was the same guy, I thoughtthe same way, I behaved the same
way.
What I needed to do was have awholesale change, and I hadn't
(18:50):
done it yet.
And actually what happened wasthat I had to go through another
five years of help, and I thinkI was saying that I can tell
you that the difference, whatthe difference was.
So, in 2014, I came back outsober for a bit, remarried to my
lovely wife, christina that I'mmarried to now, who, I have to
say on air, is an absolutelovely human being, who
(19:14):
supported my recovery, and shewas just wonderful.
And we're about to launch apodcast where we're talking
about what it's like to bemarried to an addict.
But I went into the madness andthen I had another low point,
my third and final big lowpoints, if you like, and can I
just explain what that low pointwas, please, please, lovely,
(19:36):
okay.
So four more years of helptakes me to 2019.
My wife and I are so estranged.
I keep running away, I'm takingdrugs, I'm drinking every day,
I've got more money than I hadbefore, I've got a lovely wife
and a new family and a lovelychildren, yet I'm still unhappy
because I'm the same guy.
(19:56):
I'm the same guy that I was 10years before.
Nothing had changed.
Sure, I knew more.
I knew that drugs and alcoholwere killing me, but I had no
way to change.
And actually, what happened wasthat there was one final
incident that changed everything.
I left my wife.
I picked an argument with herbecause everything now was out
(20:20):
of control.
Every single part of my life wasout of control, and I ended up
for the third time in anapartment on my own, this time
with no furniture, and I'm inthis apartment thinking, oh my
God, here I am again.
I'm 54 years old, I've nowsplit up from my third wife, I'm
(20:41):
in a bloody apartment here withno furniture, and I was on my
own.
And I called my sons, who wereby then 18 and 21, and I said to
my son guys, come around onSaturday night, because I don't
want to be on my own.
I can't.
I can't stand being on my own.
And they said, okay, dad, andthey came around.
Well, with my sons there, whatwas my natural thing to do?
(21:03):
Have a bloody party.
It's completely insane.
So I bought a load of alcohol.
I got really drunk.
My son's turned up and I wasalready drunk and while my sons
were there, I thought I'm gonnabuy some cocaine.
I bought 10 grams of cocaine.
I Wrapped up a load of lines inthe kitchen and I invited my
sons into the kitchen andpointed at them and said you
(21:24):
will not be a man if you don'tknow how to take cocaine it
makes my hand sweat to say thisand my sons looked at each other
and they left and I was sodisgusted and appalled at my own
behavior that I could do thatto my sons.
I got the most important emotionthat I'd ever had, that I
(21:46):
needed, and that emotion wasdisgust.
I Was so disgusted and then Iwent outside to hang myself and
I heard a voice, and the voicesaid don't kill yourself, david,
go back to rehab.
And that was what I did.
I called my wife and said I'mgoing back to rehab.
She explains that that changedher world.
The minute I'd said I'm done,yeah, and I went back to rehab
(22:08):
and this time I was seriousbecause I knew there was no way
out.
I knew I was a dead man, I knewI was finished.
And actually what happened wasthat in that rehab they have
peer supporters, volunteers, andI'm a volunteer now.
Yeah and there was a gentlemanthere called Stuart, who was in
there with me in 2014 andSuddenly in front of me there's
(22:29):
Stuart, who'd got well and Ihadn't, and I looked at him and
thought why have you got welland why have I not?
Because I really like this guy.
He's a good guy.
Yeah he's got well.
And then I realized what I'dbeen missing all this time.
I've had enough pain.
I'd been in pain for a lifetime.
The thing that had been missingwas hope.
(22:50):
I Hadn't had the hope.
I never thought that I wasworthy of getting well.
I never thought I was, it waspossible.
I didn't believe it waspossible.
Yet suddenly in front of me wasa man who gave me all the hope
that I needed, and then Ithought I'm done.
I'm gonna do every single thingthat they say.
I'm gonna do.
Recovery like it.
(23:10):
My life depends on it becauseit did, and what I did was then,
and that's nearly four yearsago.
All I've done now is is work onrecovery, and that's why I've
ended up being a sober coach,because I love recovery.
I had to learn all thesedifferent things.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
That goes in applying the framework as you're saying
it.
Sorry Dan go ahead, actually I.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Was just gonna say that goes perfectly into the now
and today.
David and I was gonna ask howdo you feel or how are you today
?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Okay, that's a lovely question.
I think I can explain that.
Every day for me begins withone thing, and it's a really
important thing.
It's gratitude.
Okay, so I can now say I'vestood, stood on the cliff at the
gates of hell and look down andI no longer want to be David
Golding version one.
I do not want to be that man.
(24:04):
I refuse to be that man.
So now, today, I will try andbe the best version of me that I
can be.
So every day starts withgratitude.
Hey, listen, I'm a human being,by the way.
I don't sit here with a big egoand say I'm perfect, I screw up
, but if I do, I'll say sorryand make amends and I'll try and
be the best person that I canbe and give my time Willingly
(24:25):
and be grateful for everythingthat I've had.
So today, every day is full ofgratitude, and I look back on
David Golding version one,knowing that man never had a
future.
He was destined for an early,early grave and I refuse to be
him.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
What I've noticed about you, even in just today
and yesterday's interaction, isthat you express a love for
situations and people that thatI I and Anna few like not very
often seen in others, and IThink it's very much a result of
you actually having seen theworst of the world, the things
(25:03):
that it can happen and the typeof person you can become,
because Even dad and I we'vewe've had our struggles, but for
you, every day, relative to theyou know, essentially a
majority of your life, yes, islike paradise, correct?
So why aren't we, in your eyes,the best people in the world?
Why isn't this at the bestenvironment?
Why isn't this the best weather?
(25:23):
Because you could beunderground right now, correct?
Speaker 2 (25:27):
I absolutely.
What you're talking about thereis is the most beautiful
perspective that I've been givenas a gift.
You are right, there's anotherpoint there.
So I've got my own Life'sjourney, my own experiences, the
memories that and experiencesthat I can draw on to make
comparison.
I'll give you an example.
Sometimes you know if I'm havinga day that's pants, because we
(25:49):
all have a day that's pants.
Yeah, I can just very quicklyplay a movie of me offering my
son's cocaine and I'll getemotional there because no day
is as pants as that, no day isas bad as that.
In fact, every day is wonderfulcompared to some of the days
I've had and these are tears ofjoy, by the way, about how
(26:11):
grateful I am, you know, to bealive, to be able to spend time
with good people.
You know I now look for thegoodness in people and when,
throughout a lifetime of runningaway from people and not
knowing how to behave, I've nowgot such more acceptance about
Humanity.
You know I believe in theupward spiral of humanity.
(26:31):
Yeah, I believe in the goodnessof people.
Now, not everyone else, noteveryone, has got the skills.
Everyone's learning and somepeople are a bit malevolent and
dark, but I don't choose to lookat those people or spend much
time with them.
I choose to spend time withpeople who have got goodness.
So, for example, you know,growing up I think I always felt
(26:53):
victimized, that the world washorrible to me, that I didn't
like some of the people in theworld.
Actually, in the rooms ofalcoholics anonymous, and
cocaine anonymous, and narcoticsanonymous and gamblers
anonymous there are people therewho were trying their best to
become good human beings.
You know.
So, hidden in plain sight arethousands and thousands and
thousands of people who've hadstruggles and are trying to
(27:15):
prevail.
Yeah, so I've spent a decade ormore in the rooms of AA.
I've probably listened to thestories of 25,000 people and I'm
a mathematician, I calculatethese things and I've seen
thousands of people recover.
I've seen thousands of peoplewho arrived broken and suicidal
and now live beautiful,fulfilled lives, yet they still
(27:38):
want to come back and helppeople.
That's the world I want to livein.
That's the world that makes mecry with joy.
It's not sitting on the metroand seeing two people have an
argument about who's stolen aseat.
It's about the upward spiral ofhumanity men, women and
everyone holding hands with eachother and Prevailing against
(28:00):
odds.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Really important to me.
It makes me be grateful to bealive.
And and also this, this notionyou don't know what's around the
corner that I find thatexciting.
I don't know what's gonnahappen tomorrow.
You know, a few weeks ago Ididn't know that we would be
here today.
Those are the wonderful thingsin life to keep your eyes and
(28:24):
ears open and expect theunexpected.
That's so wonderful.
The script's not written.
I can do anything I want, aslong as I apply some reasonable
rules of goodness.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Man I.
The other thing I'm imaginingis, yes, you had to go through
some very, very tough times, butyou are now free in many ways
off.
Like you mentioned, the chainsyes, there are a lot of people
are current led.
Most people, maybe even Dan andI included, are still chained
to to this day.
Yes, yes, not sinking us to thebottom of the ocean, but
(29:04):
consistently just slightlykeeping us under water or
slightly just keeping us tied tothat one tree.
That's avoiding us fromventuring out and being as open
to the world as you are.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
That's.
You're right that.
So this we were talkingbeforehand about, about the
chains I was talking about, Idon't give a monkeys about
yesterday.
I'm not, I'm not bothered withyesterday.
Yesterday's gone, it's finished.
As long as there's no hangoverfrom yesterday, you know, as
long as there's no unfinishedbusiness from yesterday, like
I've not screwed anyone over,lied to any anyone, cheated them
(29:37):
, you know, and I don't do thosethings and if I mistakenly
Mislead somebody, for example,I'll go and say sorry and I'll
make amends and fix all that.
So I don't carry aroundyesterday and I was saying that
you know, maybe yesterday's likea ball and chain.
We all carry Yesterday around,so, forgive me, we don't all
carry yesterday around.
(29:57):
I carried yesterday around Likea ball and chain tied to my
foot and then expected to goswimming in the sea.
Well, it's not gonna happen.
I'm gonna drown.
And actually I had to look atall the ball and chains in my
life and and in fact many of the, the chains that are holding us
down.
They're handcuffs that we puton ourselves.
(30:18):
Yeah you know and and mixing themetaphors, but you know what we
can do is we can just cut thesechains and get rid of them
takes effort.
You know part of the work thatI do with clients and the work
that I had to do, I call itemotional Archaeology.
You know I need to go digging.
Yeah, I wanted to know whoDavid Golding was, because there
(30:38):
was some nice bits of DavidGolding that I wanted to keep,
but there were other bits of himthat weren't working and not
saying I was a good guy and abad guy, they were just bits of
me that didn't work.
Yeah, attitudes, thoughtprocesses, behaviors they all
needed to change.
I had to learn skills that Iprobably might have learned as a
(30:59):
teenager if I hadn't beendrinking alcohol.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
You know.
So this was a wholesale changein my attitude to life.
So you are right, and today Ican walk the earth a free man,
and that's really important tome.
Yeah, nothing's.
There's no drugs, alcohol orgambling or sex or porn
addiction or shopping addiction.
You know a bit too muchchocolate and probably drink a
(31:26):
bit too much coffee.
That's okay, I can work on that.
Yeah, I'm not a perfect humanbeing, but there's nothing in my
life that's changing how Ithink, except me.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
David, I want to refer back to when we first met
and it was that serendipitousmoment between four people that
all met in a coffee shop.
And I must admit when I firstmet you you look like the most
friendly, like loving, caring,kind person that I've ever met,
(32:03):
greeted with a great big hug anda smile, really warm, friendly,
but it was.
It was later on and after thatthat coffee wheel had that you
said used to find those momentsreally, really challenging and
the thought of meeting newpeople straight away in a coffee
shop.
We're just scared of livingdaylights at you and you
wouldn't see it from you.
Now, the way you talk and youaround people, such you know,
(32:25):
it's almost like it comescompletely easy to you.
But that was never an easything for you, was it?
Speaker 2 (32:33):
No, my whole life.
You absolutely right, dan.
Thank you for saying those kindwords, I think, because I'd
always felt a fraud.
I'd always been pretending tobe comfortable as opposed to
knowing how to be comfortable.
I'll give you an example.
You know my youngest son, david.
We run out of children's namesbecause we've got seven seven
(32:55):
children.
We called him.
He's called David and he'slovely.
He has no concepts of being shyor being retiring, he just is.
Yeah you know the innocence ofchildren that we see it's almost
I'd lost any innocence of howto be without Questioning myself
.
So you're right, dan, when Iwould go for meetings I would
(33:15):
have to analyze, prepare,present myself.
I would play role-playing gamesin my head in case people ask
me a question and I would needto know all the permutations of
all the answers and then, ifthey have answered a question on
that question, all thepermutations, and I would blow
my own brains in with fear ofmeeting people, because I just
(33:36):
didn't know how to behave.
And I think it was because IWas so uncomfortable with who I
was.
And I think now, maybe what yousee is authenticity.
I'm authentic, I'm acceptingthat sometimes I'll screw up and
I also don't need everyone tolove me.
I don't need everyone to likeme.
You know I used my money andwealth to buy friends.
(33:58):
Let's make no bones about that.
I gave away houses.
I gave somebody in McLaren.
I would take people on privatejets.
I would give them money andjobs.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
I was desperate to be liked and I will basically buy
people off.
You know now, if you like me,that's lovely, if you don't,
that's lovely, you know, that'sokay, I can't really affect you.
So there's the whole thingabout acceptance.
So I think I learned some newskills done.
But I needed to, because for 54years I've been a ball in a
(34:30):
pinball machine and with eachbuffer, with each flipper, it
hurt me.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Sounds like that Transition from the human doing
to the human being just justbeing.
Now you've learned to just oh.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Powerful.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
So I want to sorry.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
All I was gonna say was look, you know, we all have
bad days too.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
And I'll tell you.
I'll tell you something Ilearned in early recovery about
what to do if you have a bad day.
Okay, cuz sometimes you have abad day.
You know, stuff happens withhuman beings and the world Apex
us.
Go to bed, that's my solutiongo to bed.
I realized in early recovery mysafest place was it under under
(35:16):
a duvet, in bed.
I'm unlikely to go to anoff-license Phone, a dealer or
do anything, and there are somany times where I went to bed
at five or six in the eveningand it was because in the old
day we were trying wrestle withtoday.
I mean, I just worked hard toget out of bed.
Today.
I'm going to go to bed today,today, wrestle to get a victory
out of today, even though it's ashitty day.
(35:39):
I can't go to bed until I'vewon and I'm gonna force myself
and get on the iPad and thelaptop and fix something.
Oh, forget that.
Do you know what?
Today's?
A bit pants.
I'm off to bed, yeah, and yougo to sleep and you wake up.
And that was yesterday, and youknow my theory about yesterday.
Yeah so, actually, instead ofwrestling all the goddamn time
with the world and the universe,just let go.
I can't do much about that.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
that Today's been a bit tense and you have the most
evidence to say that, truly,what is the worst that can
happen?
You've seen the worst.
Yeah, if I don't work on thisproject today, it'll be there
tomorrow, okay.
I can't come to the podcastwithout undaunted.
Okay, what happened tomorrow?
Correct, you know it's notsuicide.
No, it's not suicide that.
(36:19):
I don't know if that would nopun intended at all, but there's
a reality to that difference,right.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yes, yeah, there's the other thing.
I think there's so many ways ofexplaining that you're right.
There's the other thing, whichis this earth is spinning at
1100 miles an hour.
Okay, that's how fast it spins.
Yeah, it's so big it takes 24hours to spin.
Once this earth is spinning,whatever I bloody do, yeah, I'm
(36:47):
insignificant to this planet inthat way and as long as I
remember my insignificance tothe importance of everything, it
means that things that areimportant to me, they're not
important to so many otherpeople in the planet.
So I'm better get a goodperspective about that.
The things that are importantto me, if I can get on and do
them and deliver them, that'sgreat.
(37:08):
But if it also means that Ihave to accept other things, I
best readily accept them.
Otherwise it's going to driveme insane.
You know to rage against theworld and what people do and
don't do, and you know we learnin recovery that we're powerless
over people, places, things andsituations.
You know we're powerless overpeople.
(37:30):
I can work with a client and tryand help them.
I've got a reliable andrepeatable program to help
people quit drinking.
Okay, all I can do issuggestions.
You know I'm not responsible.
I can't make you get sober.
I can really tell you why andeducate you and hold your hand
and do all these things.
These are only suggestions andit's down to him.
(37:52):
So you know.
And if the guy wants to listen,brilliant, if he doesn't want
to listen, brilliant.
I can't do much about that.
I'll try my hardest, but I'mnot responsible or accountable.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
You're being the steward to anyone else who needs
one.
Yeah, that's the way I see it.
Yeah, because you said I thinkthe two triggers for you that
were big ones after a decadewere your kids and the hope you
have for them.
Yes, and then the very directand tangible hope you saw in
Stuart that it is possible.
Correct, absolutely.
(38:23):
It's an absolute pleasure tosee you being that visual
embodiment of hope for others.
Bless you.
I want to end off with a littleshort game.
Okay, and it's more just anopen set of questions rather
than a game.
Yeah, it's called and you'lllove this the meaning of life,
(38:43):
meaning of life, and it's aseries of questions that,
honestly, are way more smart.
Can?
Speaker 3 (38:49):
I ask one question before we go into the game.
Yes, please.
I had it in my head and I feelare a great if I don't ask it so
we can cut this bit out and goback to it.
So we'll work on that.
David, what would you say tosomeone that is an alcoholic and
knows they're an alcoholic?
Yep, and yeah, they'restruggling at the moment, but
(39:13):
they realized that there is aproblem and they've tried to get
help, but things aren't working.
And they're still an alcoholic,but they're gradually trying to
get better each day, butthere's still a problem and they
know there's a problem.
What would you say to thatperson?
One thing, would you say it'salmost like they're aware
(39:39):
Because I think that's the firstthing, isn't it with being an
alcoholic or having an addiction, is just that awareness
straight away that there is aproblem, because without that
you can't help anyone.
They've got to help themselves.
But what would be the firstthing you would tell someone in
that position?
Maybe the position that youwere in back then?
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Okay, I know the reasons why I failed for 10
years and I've explained thatthere was a lack of hope, but
the truth was it was down toaction.
It's the same in anything,isn't it?
Nothing's going to improveunless you put some bloody
effort in.
It's not going to happen forfree.
I'm not going to get rained onwith recovery.
(40:21):
It's just I've got to dosomething, and I think the truth
is that anyone in activeaddiction that's battling what
they're really battling with isam I really an alcoholic?
Can I change?
What can I do?
It seems too difficult For mostpeople.
The problem with alcoholaddiction is what am I going to
do if I put it down?
(40:42):
How am I going to feel?
How am I going to behave?
So I think it's such a complexweb and for anyone individual
there could be many, manyreasons why they're not making
progress, but probably the briefanswer any sort of progress is
progress, anything.
So in my 10 years of hell, thetruth was I was making progress.
(41:07):
We've got this notionprofessionally in recovery.
They're called the pathways ofrecovery.
No, two people's pathway is thesame, but if you're on a
pathway that's better than not.
Okay, I can't judge someoneelse's recovery and say whether
it's good or bad.
If somebody says I'm analcoholic and I used to drink
(41:32):
three bottles of vodka a nightand now I'm only drinking two, I
would say well done, mate.
That's bloody good, that'sreally good.
I would love it if you couldget to zero.
But for today, bloody well done, because that's taken effort,
you're recognizing, you'regetting a problem, you're
improving, you're makingprogress.
(41:52):
So any sort of progress, that'ssurely the rule for humanity.
We've all got to make someprogress in any number of
different directions.
I think it's when that phrasewhich is there's none so blind
as those who won't see If peopleare in that camp, you've got no
hope.
(42:13):
In the same way, you can'treason with the unreasonable.
There's all these littlephrases I've got.
But for anyone who wants toimprove, that's the most
important thing.
The desire to improve and toput the action in, which means
any amount of progress, isbloody brilliant.
That's a miracle.
Can I just explain why it's amiracle?
(42:35):
Yes, forgive me, I know I talka lot.
I've got this idea of somethingcalled the infinite journey.
When we embark on something new, the first step is the infinite
step.
It's the hardest step to begin.
Well, why is it so hard Becauseit's the infinite journey.
If I start with a blank pieceof paper and I want to write a
(42:57):
book, beginning writing the bookgoes from zero to one version,
one, one page.
One divided by zero is infinity.
That's why it's the infinitejourney.
To go from a blank page to pageone, to go from page one to
page two, that's only 100%.
To go from page two to pagethree, well, that's only 50%.
Well, actually, the curvereally falls quickly 150, 30, 20
(43:22):
, 10.
It really falls.
The hardest page to write isthe first page.
The hardest step to take is thefirst step.
That's why it's called theinfinite journey.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
There's this one trick that I use in my life and
by no means that you know up tothe scale of the challenges
you're using it to tackle.
But when I don't want to dosomething, or when I'm
internally battling with thedecision to do the thing or
procrastinate, just do it fortwo minutes.
Just do it for two minutes,even if it sucks, even if you
(43:57):
hate it.
And there's so much power andthis is something I've been
thinking about for the lastcouple of months in momentum,
Things that are moving will staymoving, so the effort is really
just on the acceleration and ifyou realize that that's all you
need, it becomes so much easierto start doing the task and
making the change.
(44:18):
Just turn this steering wheel,just hit the accelerator, and
sometimes it's just hit thebrakes.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Yeah, yeah, and that's all action, that motion.
Newton's second law F equals MA, force equals mass times,
acceleration.
Now, to get this thingaccelerating, to get this dead
weight, this mass, accelerating,I've got to put some force into
this.
I've got to get this thingmoving.
Yeah, I mean, I've got thisother lovely idea.
(44:45):
I think there's a bit of Greekmythology or a Greek story about
a guy that has to push theboulder uphill.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Okay.
So sometimes the hardest thingswe do it's like waking up in
the morning and my job is topush this massive boulder up a
hill and I'm pushing the boulderup and it falls back down and
every time I go to bed it rollsback down to the bottom of the
hill and then tomorrow I've gotto push the boulder up the hill.
The beautiful thing about thisis that every time the boulder
(45:16):
falls down the hill, it chipslittle bits off and one day the
boulder will be a pebble.
Keep pushing the boulder up thehill.
It's not always a boulder, itgets smaller.
So even the hardest things thatyou think, I'm just pushing a
boulder up the hill every day.
(45:37):
This is the hardest thing I'veever done in my life.
Will it ever end?
Will I succeed?
This is awful.
Keep pushing the boulder.
Yeah, it gets better.
You get better.
You get fitter and stronger.
The boulder gets smaller.
You learn more.
So combine the infinite journeywhich is just begin.
I love what you said.
You just put pen to paper.
(45:58):
But if you've got a blank pieceof paper and you're writing
your book, just say this is mybook.
You've done something.
It's now no longer a blank page, just anything.
I love progress.
I've learned that progresschanged me.
We don't change overnight, andthe sooner I got off the page of
(46:20):
imagining with my impatiencethat I could fix everything in
24 hours.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
And the joy comes from the journey.
It comes from learning toprogress.
It also comes from falling over.
Yeah, you know, sometimes whenI fall flat on my face, at least
I'm moving forwards, you know,it's all right.
So I love the idea of progress.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
Yeah, and through decades of your life, you've
tried and you've tried andyou've tried again.
That's what I've.
You've not given up.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
I won't quit, no, now .
Thomas Edison said the best wayto guarantee you over is to
quit.
Yeah, yeah, I don't want toquit.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
Right, let's play this little game.
Good, so every card has aquestion on it.
Yeah, and it's likely moreinsightful, deep and thoughtful
than anything we could think of.
Okay, and for some reason, italways somehow relates well to
the topic and the personality ofthe guest.
Now, I have no idea how thatworks, but, okay, all right.
(47:22):
So why don't you pick a card?
Speaker 2 (47:24):
Okay, you've got this one.
Can you read it?
I don't have my glasses on,forgive me, what?
Speaker 1 (47:29):
might surprise people if they really knew you.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Gosh, what might surprise them?
Maybe the person that I am nowand Dan talked about it then and
said I might come across asauthentic and comfortable and
(47:56):
all of those things, but stillinside I'm not.
Still inside, I'm struggling.
Still inside, I'm working hardto be authentic because it
doesn't come naturally to me.
Yeah, so that's different fromfaking it, that's just
practicing.
Yeah, I still have to practiceand I don't think I'll ever.
I think probably the minutethat I can stroll out on stage
(48:19):
in front of 5,000 people andthink I'm brilliant, that's the
moment I've fucked it up,forgive me, that's the moment
I've screwed up where my ego'sgot too big.
So I think, yeah, I'm maybe notas confident as I might come
across as.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
It's a process that takes time and that's the thing
I've realized because to answerthe same question you answered I
am very, very similar.
I definitely appreciate beingliked by as many people as
possible, and it's taken me overtime to realize that I have
(49:00):
unique energy.
I am not normal relative toothers and, as a result, I want
to accept and I have to acceptthat a majority, statistically
speaking for anyone, a majorityof people will not like you
Because their personalities arenot essentially the equivalent
of a puzzle fit with yours, andthat's okay.
(49:22):
All you can do is build anenergy around yourself, whatever
that may be, and allow peopleto come in and out of it, stay
for as long as they wish, leaveas long as they wish and, you
know, hope that that's goodenough, I agree.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
There's a healthy attitude and understanding, in a
way of acceptance, to make surethat you haven't gotten in
balance in the way that you viewthe world and other people's
opinions.
So it's really critical aboutother people's opinions because
you touched on that.
So, for example, dan, let'spretend you've had a party, it's
your birthday party, you'vegiven a birthday party and a
(50:01):
hundred people have been invitedand when the party's over, it's
been a fantastic party,everyone's enjoyed it, they've
been singing and dancing andeveryone's smiling.
And you stand by the front doorand a hundred people leave.
The first 99 give you a hug andsay, dan, that was the
loveliest party I've ever had.
The last guy says that was ashit party and storms out.
(50:22):
How do you feel?
Do you hang on the words of thelast guy or do you hang on the
words of the 99?
Speaker 3 (50:32):
You would naturally feel pretty shit that you've had
a terrible party.
I think just from the lastcomment.
Speaker 2 (50:41):
Yeah, and I think that people would ruminate over
it.
Why did he say it was a shitparty when everyone else said it
was a great party?
And actually the truth is it'swhat Adnan just said.
I don't give a monkeys whetherhe liked the party or didn't
like the party.
I really don't.
I don't think I would ruminateover it that much.
Speaker 1 (50:59):
And I think you and I think of it in that way,
because we are also numberspeople.
What are the averages?
Oh, I got 30% of people who,like me, the average is 25 or 20
.
Am I trying too hard?
Am I trying to fake it?
Am I trying to optimize forsomething?
Speaker 2 (51:16):
I'm just overcomplicating it.
Hey, brian, didn't like theparty.
See it, brian, it doesn'tmatter.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
And he may be having a bad day too and just taking it
out on the party and you yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
Yeah, you might have a resentment.
So there's that learning about.
You know, I don't need otherpeople to.
I don't need their acceptanceor point of view to make me feel
happy.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
Yeah, Dan your input.
Speaker 3 (51:43):
Yeah, I was trying to think something that would
surprise someone.
I instantly think is there likea hobby or something you're
really into?
And I was thinking I was goingto ask that question back David
as well and say is there like ifyou could relive a moment or
something that you absolutelylove, be it going surfing or
watching a musical or something?
(52:04):
Is there anything that youabsolutely love that would
people would go?
Really, I had no idea that youwould like that.
Is there anything for you thatstands out like a hobby or
something you're into reallywill love?
Speaker 2 (52:20):
Yeah, Okay, I've got loads.
Actually there's there's lotsand lots of things that make me
smile.
I'm very fortunate enough tohave managed to afford to go to
the Maldives many, many timesand there's a favorite resort in
the Maldives.
It's called Anantara Ki Havaand I've been there often
because they've got one of thelargest telescopes in the whole
(52:40):
of that hemisphere and theresort.
I've been going there that long.
I was there before they had atelescope.
I used to talk about it.
They have a fantastic telescopeand when we go on holiday we do
stargazing and we use thetelescope at four in the morning
and see Saturn's rings and theOrion Nebula and it's absolutely
mind blowing.
(53:01):
Part of my physics background.
I'm really into cosmology and Ilook up at the stars and the
awesome, just vastness of thestars, the distances, the
numbers.
They're just the cosmic geniusof it all.
That's when I can really let go.
It grounds me.
(53:21):
I just think it's the mostbeautiful thing it would make me
cry with, because it's sobeautiful to imagine the scale
of the universe, because thisuniverse isn't accidental.
I know that it's not accidentaland that gives me hope and
serenity and many, many things.
So, yeah, my favorite place iswith my wife and my children
(53:45):
looking up at the stars in theMaldives and seeing the huge,
vast expanse of humanity laidout before me the universe and
its majestic brilliance.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
What a great way to end the pod.
Thank you so much, so much, somuch, David, for sharing your
time with us, for beingincredibly honest, open, and I
hope that this will inspireothers to you know, to change
their lives around and hopefullycome talk to you and see how
you can help them as well.
(54:18):
Bless you, I'd love to.
And where can people find youon the socials, on your website,
all of that?
Speaker 2 (54:25):
Yeah, sure, Website wwwsobaae, of course.
And on the socials, all thesocials.
I'm at Soba Coach Dubai, Loveit.
Speaker 3 (54:36):
Thanks, david, I'm going to go and bless you as
well.
Thanks, adam, thanks, dan.
I'm going to go and startrolling my bold uphill.
That's what I'm going to startdoing now.
I'm going to keep chipping itaway.
Thanks for listening.
Leave us a review, tell us whatyou think, find us at Instagram
failforwardpod.
If you know someone that wantsto be on the show, or if you
(54:57):
want to be on the show, give usa shout, dm us.
We'll see you soon.
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