Reclamation Ministry

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_03 (00:00):
Today, on another episode of Faith and Failures,
we're going to be tacklingaddiction and we're going to be
talking about recovery.
Stick around.
Before we get into today'svideo, I just wanted to say
thank you to all of the newsubscribers.
If you haven't yet, considersubscribing.
Hit that bell notification sothat you can see every time I
put out a new video.
A major portion of you thatwatch my videos haven't

(00:23):
subscribed yet, so why not?
It's free.
You can also find a PayPal linkbelow if you want to give a one
time or give a monthly tosupport the channel.
Anything great or small isappreciated.
Now let's get into the video.
Today I have a couple of specialguests with me.

(00:45):
Uh, we're going to be talkingabout something they're very
passionate about.
Uh, they actually right now arein Oklahoma and they are dealing
daily with people of addiction,um, which is something very dear
to my heart because I used to beaddicted.
Most of you that have beenaround, you've heard my story of
meth addiction and the recoveryand that process of how God
radically changed my life.

(01:06):
So we have some firsthand peoplewho not only dealt with that
personally, that God saved themand pulled them out of the jaws
of hell, but now they haveturned around and they are
helping people escape the thefate that the enemy has for
them.
So, Earl, Angie, Lindsay, thanky'all so much for joining me
today.
Uh, you can say hi to thecamera.

(01:26):
Hello.
This camera just for a second.

SPEAKER_00 (01:32):
Get it up closer.
Come a little bit closer.

SPEAKER_03 (01:36):
That's a whole lot of money.

SPEAKER_01 (01:37):
See that in there.

SPEAKER_03 (01:39):
I probably will.
Sometimes I don't like it.
I don't spend a lot of timeediting, they don't like
everybody learning.

SPEAKER_01 (01:44):
Bro, it bothers me because I look like Big Ed in
the past.

SPEAKER_03 (01:51):
Yeah, but I'm a little embarrassed now.
No, I know they're they'rereally only about 150 pounds.
It's just the wide angle lens.

SPEAKER_00 (01:58):
That's why I'm telling you, you know, it's all
the cameras.
That's it.

SPEAKER_03 (02:03):
So uh this is Earl and Angie.
They are um married.
How long have been y'all beenmarried?
Four years, October the 1st.
So still newly wears.
Yes.
So technically, I'm I've got alot more wisdom than y'all do
because we married 10 years,right?
Is that how it works?
Might be.
Maybe, yeah.
Seriously, maybe yeah.
No, Earl actually, oh wild boom.

(02:25):
Uh we actually were raisedaround each other.
Our dads were best friendpastors in the assembly god uh
sphere, and we grew up together.
So don't be emailing or commentand asking for stories because
he probably has got them.
We have a lot, a lot of storieswe can talk about.
So let's follow who wants tostart first.
Let's go back to I told him alittle bit.

(02:46):
I may have said it to you todayat lunch too.
Kind of go back to thebeginning, tell kind of your
beginning of your life, how itall started.
Um, maybe a lot of people,there's there's some key things
that people forget tounderstand.
They try to say, I want to befree, but they still surround
themselves with things that bindthem daily.

SPEAKER_04 (03:03):
Exactly.
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (03:04):
So, like you you preached on uh today about the
toxic things in their life.
Sometimes those the hardestthings to walk away from are are
the relationships.

SPEAKER_04 (03:11):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (03:12):
Right.
And if you can get rid of someof those, yeah, then you can
really start walking in freedombecause you don't have that dead
weight anymore.

SPEAKER_01 (03:18):
Right.
Just like we were starting thismorning, it also starts off with
us working on ourselves.
Yeah.
When we start with ourselves,that's where everything changes.
Because I'm the only person Ican change is me.
Yeah.
And when I start changing me,that's when everything else in
my life changes.

SPEAKER_00 (03:32):
Yeah, those people just naturally want to leave
because you're no longer toxicand you know, you're kind of
drawn to other toxic people.
So when you lose that toxicity,then people are like, Yeah, I
don't uh that's not for meanymore.
And so they just kind ofnaturally fall off, which is a
blessing, really.

SPEAKER_03 (03:51):
I explained to um somebody who's talking, or they
asked me, you know, it it feelslike depression is trying to get
me again.
It feels like anxiety is tryingto get get me again.
And I said, Well, you gottastart realizing who you are.
And it's like it's like when youas a teenager, most of us by the
time I'm about to be 40, most ofus by the time we hit 40, we

(04:12):
can't fit in the same clothes wecould when we were in high
school.
And I told her, I said, You gotto look at that, whatever it is
in your life, whether it'sdepression, addiction, anxiety,
whatever, and say, I don't haveto wear you anymore, I've
outgrown you.

SPEAKER_04 (04:27):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (04:27):
And when you start acting that way, it makes it
where you can get rid of somethings in your closet that you
don't ever touch, you don't everwear, but they're still there,
and things like that can linger.

SPEAKER_01 (04:37):
Well, usually addiction is an outward symptom
of an inward struggle.
Exactly.
Once I work on me inwardly, thethings on the outside change.
So the same way, if I look at myroots, look at the things in my
life that I struggle with andfind the root cause of why I
struggle with them, now I nolonger have the desire to have

(04:58):
the addiction.
I no longer have those things inmy life because I don't desire
them anymore.

SPEAKER_04 (05:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (05:03):
And for me, you know, um I've had anxiety and
depression.
I've been diagnosed with PTSD,and I felt a lot of guilt and
shame about that for a reallylong time.
Um, and I kind of hid it, andum, which only made it worse.
And so I was in the Biblestudying, and I was led to the

(05:25):
scripture about when Jesus wentto the garden and I began to
read the situation and Irealized that was anxiety.
That was an anxious moment forhim.
He felt that.
And it's okay to feel thosethings, it's not okay to sit in
them.
So now when I have a moment ofanxiety or I have a moment where

(05:45):
I'm just not feeling it thatday, I allow myself to have that
emotion that day.
I allow myself to feel it for amoment, but then I push through
it and I don't let anxiety takea hold of me.
Um, and there's a difference ofexperiencing anxiety and being
overcame with anxiety.
So that's what we teach ourclients is it's okay to feel it.

(06:06):
And a lot of times we use drugsto squash feelings, like push
them down.
You know, you don't want to feelanything.
So you use the drugs to get ridof them.
And so we don't want them tofeel like they can't have those
emotions.
We want them to know you'regonna have them because life is
gonna life and it's sometimesit's gonna life really hard.
So feel it, understand it, andthen figure out what you need to

(06:31):
do to push past it, what youneed to do to change the
situation so that you're notexperiencing it every single
day.
But there's no shame andexperiencing it.
It's just when you allow it.
Yes, it is.
I mean, if Jesus experienced it,I mean, he created us.
So all of these emotions that wehave, they're there to help us
with certain circumstances inour life.

(06:52):
So feel them, have them, butdon't allow them to dictate
whether or not you're gonna getout of bed that day, or whether
or not you're gonna go find somea drug somewhere, or whether or
not you're going to make apermanent decision based on that
temporary emotion that you'rehaving in the moment.

SPEAKER_01 (07:09):
Yeah.
And the key word there ismoment, because we're gonna have
moments.
Once we understand that our uhemotions, our feelings, and all
that, it's just seasonal, whichthey come and go.
So what happens is when I have amoment, I gotta realize it's
just temporary, it's notpermanent.

(07:30):
And when I realize that it isnot uh it is temporary, then it
makes it easier for me to say,okay, this is just my moment,
this is this feeling that I'mhaving right now.
Instead of holding on to it, Ican actually process it.
One of the things I teach ourclients is for a second when I'm
having a trigger or when I'mgoing through a process with
that, why am I having thisemotion?

(07:51):
Why am I feeling this way?
What are the those are thequestions I ask myself?
Why, why am I feeling this way?
Why am why am I doing what I'mdoing?
Because a lot of times when Iget triggered, what I do, I
react.

SPEAKER_04 (08:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (08:02):
And when I react, then I'm I'm making a mistake
because I'm in my emotions.
And so when I learn, it's justthat moment.
It's just that minute that I canjust stop and go, okay, why am I
going through this?
What do I need to do to changeit?
Because I've got to changewhat's going on.
And then you work through thosethings.

SPEAKER_03 (08:20):
I think it's very powerful when you're in the
middle of something, or youknow, you want to plan ahead.
You want to have a plan beforeyou get to it.
Right.
The danger is trying to in themiddle of it, you're reacting
and you don't have a plan, andthen everything just goes crazy.
You end up in a ditch somewhere,or in a bar somewhere, or in in
a in a bedroom somewhere, andyou never you never meant to get

(08:40):
there, but just things happen.
And like I I think I told youthis, it might have been
yesterday.
So the car I have is a sunroofthing.
And I'm looking up, and and Iopened it up when I opened it up
close to the baby.
She's like, Wow, you know,because it's moving, and then
opens it up, and I'm like, well,it's not that pretty of a sky.
I saw a little cloud off to, youknow, because it's long shaped

(09:01):
off over here, and I'm like,it's not even that pretty.
My wife looks up, she's in thepassenger seat, and she goes,
What are you talking about?
There's clouds everywhere.
I said, I'm looking at it.
No, there's not.
And she said, baby, there's big,beautiful clouds all around.
Where where I was sitting, samevehicle, where I was sitting,
just a few feet away, yeah, Icouldn't see what she could

(09:24):
like.
My world didn't look like herworld, and we were in the same
exact vehicle going the samedirection, doing this, you know,
and I could not see it.
But a lot of times we getwrapped up in like um how we see
things, as it only being oneway.
But if we if we view it, andit's paramount that if we view
it as just being a moment, asbeing a season, and sometimes we
need those people in our livesthat can see the clouds and we

(09:46):
can that that will help us getto the next next season in our
life.

SPEAKER_01 (09:50):
It's kind of like being offended.
When I'm when I'm offended andget offended, I say this all the
time.
I hear a fence, see offense,speak offense.
What do I do?
Now now I'm being offense.
Yeah.
So my perception gets offbecause I'm offended.
I'm in my box, I'm in my ownworld, I'm trapping my own self
in.
And as long as I can see beyondthat offense, I'm gonna allow

(10:13):
that offense to control me.
I call that all the timeunplugging the vacuum cleaner.
Yeah, whenever you don't give itpower, it can't control you.
So instead of reacting, learn torespond and realizing, okay, I
don't need to react, I need todo something different to
respond.
Because as long as I give towhatever, whatever's there, give

(10:33):
it what it wants, it's gonnacontrol me.
But if I give it a healthyresponse, guess what?
I'm still in control.
Yeah, I can manage myself.

SPEAKER_00 (10:43):
Yeah.
God's really been dealing withme lately about perception and
um my words.
So now instead of saying I haveto go to work today, I get to go
to work today.
That's a lot of people havethat.
And and my our clients, I'vebeen working with them, and you
know, like, I have to do thisprogram that I'm in.

(11:04):
No, you get to do this programthat you're in.
They'll say, I have to UA today.
No, you get to UA today.

SPEAKER_04 (11:11):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (11:12):
And they'll say, Yeah.
And you know, our perceptionbecomes our reality.

SPEAKER_04 (11:17):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (11:18):
So if we are always perceiving things to be negative
and monstrously big, then theyare monstrously big.
But if it if we change ourperception of things and really
like start speaking morepositivity into our life, it
your life becomes more positive.
It's just a natural way ofthings.

SPEAKER_03 (11:38):
Yeah.
So y'all been married for yousaid over four years.
Now, I know that y'all used todate, right?
And then she left you.
All right.

SPEAKER_01 (11:48):
So you left me, like left me high and dry for my
feelings, everything, you know.
But he's still trying to heal.
Yes, I'm still trying to heal.

SPEAKER_03 (11:56):
But so now I kind of know your story, but the viewers
don't.
So we can just kind of go one byone.
What was your story?
What was the atmosphere?
Did you get into drug addiction?
Was it alcoholism?
Was it womanizing, whatever thecase may be?
All these are things covering upsomething.
Yes.
So a lot of people think, well,only people that have had bad
lives.
For instance, my dad was apastor, my parents were married,

(12:18):
you know.
Oh, we know that feeling.
Yeah.
So what what was it that got youin the direction of where you
were going?
And then with how did you start?

SPEAKER_01 (12:25):
With me started with my childhood.
Because I actually I actuallystarted drinking some by the
time I was probably about 14.
Um, but that's also the year toothat I try to take my life.
Um so for my childhood, I havebeen it'd been a struggle for me
because I've had so many thingshappen in my childhood, even
though I was a pastor's kid, apastor's grandkid, but the

(12:48):
religious abuse, the physicalabuse, the verbal abuse was
real.
Uh and for most of my life,honestly, up until a few years
ago, I I had been abused in someareas of my life in some way,
form, or fashion.
And it did start at a young age.
Um, up until I was 18.

(13:09):
Truth, I mean, me and you hungout, but there was a lot of
times I never said anything.
I was to myself.
Uh, I wouldn't want to talk toanybody because I was scared of
people, I was scared of things,and all because of the anxiety,
the frustration, the stigma fromthat abuse put me in that place.
Uh, and I remember it startedthen.

(13:31):
Uh, my first drink was actuallywith my brother-in-law.
He actually put it in my drinkin my coke, and I actually drank
for the first time.
That's when I was like, okay,this changes everything.
And you didn't know about it, oryou at first I didn't know about
it, and then I said, Well, itmade me feel better about
myself.
Yeah.
And so I thought, well, this ismaybe what I need to do.
And then over time, it got to bythe time I was 18, I was already

(13:54):
drinking behind the scenes.
Nobody really really knew that Iwas doing those things.
Now I was still going to church.
Yeah.
Like everybody else, you know, Istill playing music.
Yeah.
I mean, there was times that Iwent to church, played it,
played at church, had a littlehangover, but I played at
church, you know.
Uh, even when my dad was pastorin one church, that I I got

(14:15):
blessed to being pastor.
And I even got drunk and run theValentine party and the
fellowship hall.
So all those things began therewith all the trauma, the drama,
all the mess.
Then I met her and her and Istarted dating for a little bit,
and then we broke up, went ourseparate ways.

(14:36):
Um, once we went our ownseparate ways, I ended up
getting married to somebodyelse.
She got married to somebodyelse, she had kids, I got
married to somebody else, I hadkids, and we just kind of went
through a life.
Uh, and both of us ended up badmarriages, both of us ended up
in toxic situations, and both ofus ended up in an addiction.
Um but when we got to that placejust a few years ago, well, it's

(15:00):
been what nine, ten years ago, Iguess.
When I got to a point that Iactually found the peace that I
was looking for.
That's when I was like, I don'tneed nothing to drink anymore.
That was really the last time Itook a drink.

SPEAKER_03 (15:14):
Now, in this whole time, were you I know you've
been a pastor, you've been uhworking in the church.
Are you drinking and doing thischurch stuff?

SPEAKER_01 (15:21):
I wasn't far as when I was a pastor, did not drink.
Yeah, but in between things,yes.
Yeah, and I struggled because Ihad to do it to cope.
I had to deal with the with myfamily and with being married to
somebody who was toxic, and itwas very difficult for me.
Um, that was one of the ways Ihad to deal with it.

(15:43):
Um and it was very, very hard.
Now I didn't do it, seriouslydidn't do it when I was
pastoring, but when we was inbetween church and ministry, I
did do it.
So what really got me changedwas one day I was standing in my
kitchen and I was praying andtold God, I said, Nobody even
loves me.

(16:03):
Nobody even cares about me.
Nobody even really It's justlike I don't even know why I'm
alive.
Don't I understand?
And God spoke to me today, hesaid, Well, there are people
that do love you, and I said,God, there isn't.
Nobody cares.
And he said, Well, your kidslove you.
And I said, You know, my kidslove you, loves me, but you

(16:25):
know, God, God, that's it, youknow, and God's like, but I love
you.
I said, Well, God, you've alwaysloved me, you know.
And I said, But nobody elseloves me, even though I've loved
everybody else, they have neverloved me.
And then God spoke to me the dayand he said, That you understand
how I feel.
I said my son to die foreverybody, and some still don't

(16:46):
love me.
And right there is when I foundthat peace that I was looking
for.
And from that point on, I neverwent back.
That's when it changed.
And through that process, again,that's where I went through
again.
I was in a bad relationship, abad marriage, went through all

(17:09):
that, and long story short, uh,I started going through divorce.
It was just a very toxicsituation, and I've been up kind
of basically a prisoner home fora while, um, because of the
divorce, the whole nine yards.
And while I was going throughthe divorce, I get this little

(17:29):
uh friend request on Facebook.
And uh I looked was it fromJesus?
It was from the Some of theAngel.
It was from the night of sure,and I got this again.
I was finishing up with mydivorce through the process of
that.
I'm not I wasn't looking fornobody, wasn't looking for
anything.
And a friend request, it wasAngie, and I remember looking at

(17:52):
it and going, that was Angie.
And I set it down on my desk atthe office when I worked at the
hospital, and I walked out myoffice, walked down the hall,
and I walked down the hall, it'slike, you know, I missed this
opportunity last time she gotaway.
And I went back, and first thingI was like, What's up?
How you doing?

(18:12):
How you doing?
How you doing?
You know, so and that's how itstarted.
We became friends, startedtalking, and next thing you
know, started dating.
Next thing you know, we gotmarried.
And it's been an amazingjourney.
Um, I tell our time I wish Ishould have married her first.
Right, you know, because we autoautomatically then had a

(18:32):
connection.
Yeah.
So right.

SPEAKER_03 (18:37):
But but y'all weren't ready for each other
then.
We were not.

SPEAKER_00 (18:40):
We were not.
Um that was a time in my life umthat I had not spoken about the
abuse that I had been throughand I had not healed from that,
um, and I would not have beengood for him at that time.
And, you know, when his uh whenhis dad uh didn't really uh

(19:03):
approve of our relationship, itjust um it reinforced all of the
bad opinions that I had ofmyself.
And so I just bowed outgracefully um from that.
Oh, so that's why you jetty, youwas like, all right.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (19:18):
Burma heart and everything, man, just left me.
Uh now she's making up for it.
All right.
Every day.
You you can't you can'tunderstand thirst until you walk
through the desert, my brother.
I understand.
Now he's thirsty.

SPEAKER_00 (19:33):
Because for me, the journey, the journey wasn't an
easy one.
My addiction um didn't starttill late in my life, but the
trauma that I went throughstarted at a very early age.
My earliest memory is at eight.
Um, and from eight until Igraduated, um when you say

(19:54):
trauma, what do you mean?
Uh sexual abuse.
And um I didn't tell.
Uh, there was a circumstance Ihad told my family about where
they didn't believe me.
Um, and so when the other abuseum just continued, I never said
anything.
Um, because, you know, why wouldyou?

(20:14):
People don't believe you whenyou say something.
Um, and I felt like I didn'thave a voice.
Um, I didn't feel like I washeard.
And that's one of the reasonswhy today I'm it's it's very
triggering for me if I'mspeaking and someone speaks over
me because it it brings backthose feelings that's a trigger
of you don't have a voice,you're not being heard.

(20:36):
And I have to process that atthe moment and and not allow
what's happening in the presentto be um bring up a memory from
the past.
Um but I, you know, I graduatedhigh school, um, and I honestly
just felt like I had never beenloved before.
I didn't understand had no ideawhat love was.
Um, and so I had a baby um and Iwasn't married, and that was one

(21:00):
of the big reasons why, youknow, big daddy Ed didn't
approve because I had I had ababy.

SPEAKER_01 (21:07):
Um everybody claims he's mine.

SPEAKER_00 (21:10):
They all think that it was Earl's, but um, I had a
baby, he was two, and um Earl's,you know, Earl's dad didn't
approve.
He had big plans for Earl, andEarl was super talented.
I saw that and I didn't stillthink you are.
Yeah.
But I didn't want to stand inthe way of that.
If he was, you know, destinedfor great things, I didn't want

(21:32):
to be what held him back.
And I didn't feel like I hadgreat things in store for me.
Um, and so I did leave.
Um, we went to eat at KentuckyFried Chicken in Pine Bluff,
Arkansas.
And then I went home back hometo Camden and I called him and I
said, This is just not, this isjust not gonna work.

(21:53):
And we we went our separateways.
Um, and uh about a year later Iended up getting married.
It was a very bad situation, butit was just another episode of
me searching for the love that Ididn't really realize where it
was supposed to come from.
So I was seeking it in man.

(22:13):
Um, and I'd been going tochurch, you know, forever.
I'd read the Bible front to backum numerous times.
Um after I got married, I my mydad had a church and or my
adopted father had a church.
And I was leading worship, I wasdoing the youth, I was teaching

(22:36):
Sunday school, I was churchtreasurer, I was doing all of
the things um that I had beentaught, but the whole time
stuffing the pain and everythingthat I had been through.

SPEAKER_03 (22:49):
And then So all the all the the stuff you went
through with the the trauma andthe abuse, yeah, did did your
husband at that time even knowabout it?

SPEAKER_00 (22:59):
He did not.

SPEAKER_03 (23:01):
So he was just keeping this bottled up and not
saying a word to anybody.
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (23:04):
And then my um it was it was horrible because your
brain never you you can say yourstuff in it all you want to, but
your brain is playing that videoover in your head repeatedly,
and it's that insanity that's inthere.
Um, and it was during that rightafter I got married, before we
had any children, um I tried tocommit suicide and they uh

(23:29):
pumped my stomach and theybrought me back and I was so mad
because they had not allowed meto choose.
I'd never been allowed to choosemy fate.
Like people just did things tome, and I and and now, you know,
they didn't allow me to choose.
Now I'm super grateful for that.
Um, and then right after that,um my adopted father, we were

(23:54):
never, I was never legallyadopted, but he took me in, him
and his wife took me in um whenI couldn't live at home with my
biological parents.
And um he had a massive brainstem stroke and he was paralyzed
from the neck down.
He was a pastor, he had the mostbeautiful, tenor voice I'd ever
heard.
And I adored that man because hewas a man who had been in my

(24:17):
life, he never expectedanything, and he never harmed me
in any way.
Um, and so it was very traumaticfor me when he did that.
And he lost his voice.
And that and I mourned his voicelike he, like, you know, part of
him had died.
Um, and then my husband left meand he just went on with his

(24:39):
life.
Well, his mother developedcancer, and I decided I would
take care of her, even though wewere separated and you know,
divorcing.
And um, she became paralyzed.
And just like my dad at home, Iwas going back and forth taking
care of both of them.
And um when she got diagnosed,she was stage four.

(25:00):
Um, and so she eventually likedied in my arms.
And I remember very vividly Ihad, like, I know it was at the
time, I had no idea, but I had apsychotic break.
I mean, when she passed in myarms, I can remember walking out
on her porch and she had tworockers, one on each side of the

(25:22):
door.
And I remember sitting down inone and just I could see all of
me sitting around, likedifferent parts of my life, like
all Angie's.
And we just all decided that wewere gonna check out.
And so um, after that, you know,I had dabbled on and off in
drugs, but at that moment when Idecided to check out, I was all

(25:45):
in because I'm an all-in person.
Yeah, like I don't ever doanything halfway.
It's like if I'm gonna, if I'mgonna do drugs, I'm gonna be the
the highest person in the room.
If I'm if I'm gonna praise God,I'm gonna be the the one who
praises him the best.
Like I just don't do anythinghalfway.
And so I dove headfirst intoaddiction.
Um, and it started, you know,with just smoking meth.

(26:09):
Um, and then the day that Ifirst used methamphetamines um
intravenously, my brain gotquiet.
And all of those traumaticevents weren't screaming in my
head, and I was instantlyhooked.
Like that silence, that peace,um was it was it was

(26:32):
controlling.
I could I could have didn'tnever look back after that,
right?
And you know, now I know that umGod always uh has something for
us.
He had peace for me, but thedevil offered me a counterfeit
peace.
And at the time I was not, Ididn't have a relationship with
God.
I only had a Bible knowledge ofhim and what um denomination had

(26:54):
told me, which was I had to beperfect.
And I knew I couldn't be that,so I had just ran.
Um, and so I chased it for areally long time.
I was arrested and charged with13 felonies in one year.

SPEAKER_03 (27:09):
13?
Girl, you were busy.
13.
When I took more than once amonth, the over that's a baker's
dozen.

SPEAKER_00 (27:14):
I assault you.
I am an overachiever.
It's all in, right?
And starting out of the park.
And then when my judge gotreally tired of seeing me, um,
you know, we're on first naval.
Um, he uh they were just I haddone like program after program,
and then um they were like,Well, you've just never done

(27:34):
regular probation.
Maybe you'll do that.
And they were just gonna throwme on regular probation.
And I told them, if you put meon regular probation, I'm gonna
be right back in here with sweet14.
Um, because when you say regularprobation, what does that mean?
Just that means to do nothing.
Yeah, I just have to check inonce a month.

SPEAKER_02 (27:52):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (27:52):
You know, the programs I were in, you had to
do UAs and you had to be thereonce a week and all of the
things in there.
Maybe that was too hard for you.
Maybe you just need to doregular probation.
And I was like, that's insane.
I've been telling you guys thatI have an addiction and that I'm
going, it's gonna kill me.
Um you were saying that to them.
The last time I got arrested,I'm t I got arrested on February

(28:15):
the 14th, Valentine's Day.
And um it was crazy because I Ididn't use that day.
And I was hungry because Ididn't use that day.
And um we were sitting in aparking lot of an apartment
building.
Um, someone was gonna go in andsee if they could get some food
from their mom.

(28:36):
Well, the person who was drivinghad been trespassed from that
property.
So here out of nowhere walks thepolice, and and the day before
that I had saw my mom and shehad finally put her foot down
and just said, You can't comehome anymore.
It's just too hard on us.
Um, and I when she left me, Isaid, God, I don't want to do

(29:00):
this anymore.
I'm I would rather die than wakeup in this addiction ever again.
And I had a plan.
I had a a white Ford Explorerand I was planning on driving
down a road in Camden.
It was Mall Road.
There was a curve and there wasthis huge pine tree.
And I had planned to drivearound that curve and drive into

(29:22):
that tree because I justcouldn't do it anymore.
And um that was on the 13th, andthen on the 14th, we're going to
get food, and um, the cops walkup out of nowhere and they were
like, Can I see some idea?

SPEAKER_03 (29:37):
And I'm like, So one day I didn't do something.

SPEAKER_00 (29:41):
Yeah.
I'm like, I was like, um, sure.
I show them my idea, and I knewbecause, you know, they had they
had put me in a hundreddifferent programs, and every
time I just didn't do anything.
So I knew that they were lookingfor me for absconding.
So that day they took me in andAnd it was crazy because the
girl that was driving, she waslike, Oh, I'm so scared.

(30:04):
I'm like, You're scared.
I told her that day, I said, I'mgonna be gone for at least a
year and a half.
I had no idea what was in storefor me.
Um, so they arrest me.

SPEAKER_03 (30:15):
That was gonna be the minimum if they got you
again.
That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 (30:17):
I don't know where I got that number.
It was crazy.
It just came to my head, I'mgonna be gone for a year and a
half.
And then I went to jail and Itold them, you know, look, if
you let me out, I'm just gonnaend up back in here because I'm
gonna use again because I'vetried to white knuckle it and I
can't do it.
So they put me in a program.
They sent me to Bastro,Louisiana, to Morehouse Women's
Challenge.

(30:38):
It's a free program for women.
Um, they feed you, clothe you,house you for a whole year, and
it's a faith-based program.
It's in a Assembly of GodChurch, an old church.
Um they still have church there,but um, they have a men's and a
women's program.
So the judge sentenced me tothat and he told me, if you
complete this program, your lifeis gonna be a better place.

(31:01):
He said, But if you do notcomplete this program, I am
going to make your life a livingnightmare.
And I knew he meant it becausehe was sick of me.
Oh me.
Um, and so I went to the programand um it's where I realized
that all of the knowledge that Ihad in my head didn't translate
to my heart, and it didn'ttranslate to a relationship with

(31:25):
Jesus.
Um, and so I spent that wholeyear developing developing a
relationship with Jesus andunderstanding that I I was never
gonna be able to be perfect, andhe really just never expected me
to be.
Um, and that changed my wholelife.

SPEAKER_03 (31:40):
So quick question.
You said like when you youdecided you're gonna check out,
you said you started doing mess.
That's a big jump.
Like, where where did that likehow did that connect with you
say I'm gonna check out?
Why mess?
Like, why did you go to thatdrug?
Did you have people you knewthat?
I did it.

SPEAKER_00 (31:58):
I did.
I had family.

SPEAKER_03 (31:59):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (31:59):
Um, I had family um who had been in and out of jail
using, and um I had hung outwith them before, um, right
after my divorce.
Um I would go out with all likea group of them and I knew what
they were doing.
Um, I was drinking, but Iwasn't, you know, using heavy
drugs, but I knew they were.
Um, and um so I knew it wasaccessible.

(32:22):
And um, you know, they justlooked like they didn't have a
care in the world.
They were having the time oftheir life.
And um, and I just thought, youknow, I'm gonna do that too.
I'm I've just been burdenedforever, so I'm just gonna go
and do all the things that seemso fun.
And it does seem really fun atfirst, um, but then it becomes a

(32:43):
chore.

SPEAKER_04 (32:44):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (32:45):
Like, yeah, now now I'm spending every single waking
moment of my day and nightseeking, searching, and and
figuring out how to find it andhow to find the money to get it.

SPEAKER_03 (32:56):
You know how ridiculous if I would have put
the effort into anything else,yeah.
I'm talking about night and day.
Yeah.
Living off the little bit youhave just so you can find more.
Yeah.
It was a constant search, andthen you come up with not a lot
or or like ever you're waitingon everybody, drug dealer time,
like on another 15 minutes, thatmeans three hours later, and

(33:19):
it's like Yeah.
Just a constant search, andlike, dude, I thought about this
the other day.
I was like, man, if I gave halfhalf of the attention and
searching to God and falling inlove with his word as I did
looking for drugs, yeah, I'd bestorming the gates of hell with
a water pistol.

SPEAKER_01 (33:39):
It's not even just drugs.
The people even in our livesthat we see, there's so many
people use in the drama and thename blame game and all this
other stuff.
They literally in their mind,they plan everything to make
sure those things go their way.
And it's again, it's not justwith drugs.

(34:01):
Uh and when you see that energy,I told the person the other day,
that person would put thisenergy in something productive,
yeah.
Wow, they would be unstoppable.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (34:11):
Instead of being stuck in an addiction mentality.

SPEAKER_01 (34:14):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (34:15):
And you know how did how did you get out of it?
Yeah, I think you were sorry, Ididn't mean to cut you off a
minute ago.

SPEAKER_00 (34:21):
The program.

SPEAKER_03 (34:21):
Was that the program?
That's what she got therelationship with Jesus.
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (34:25):
Because you're in it, it's like you're in this
little bubble, you know.
And in my mind, when I was thinkabout it, um, I it reminds me of
like when I would watch umSpongeBob with my kids and they
would see Sandy would be in thebottom of the ocean and she had
a bubble.
And it really was like thatbecause you had accelerated
healing and accelerated growth.

(34:47):
Um, and that's where I realizedthat, you know, the using and
stuff was just a symptom of whatwas hurting on the inside.
And they had a psychologistthere, so I I would go to
therapy regularly and actuallyfetch your demons, not just
cover them up.
Yes, and told her everything andshe would tell me, and I would,

(35:07):
you know, I because I wasscared.
Like it's horrible.
Some of the things that I havebeen through, I've had a
therapist before tell me thatthey were traumatized by my
story.
And um, that's traumatic.
Like, I don't even know.
Can I tell you everything?
I like you and you know, sotomorrow to be able to tell her
everything and her not look atme different um was amazing.

(35:32):
Tony, sister Tony, um, she wasjust this little short Italian
lady, and she had the biggest,she has no idea the impact that
she has on lives.
Like she is short and she issmall in stature, but her impact
in the kingdom of God ishumongous.

(35:54):
Um, she helps people changetheir life.
And they taught me things likeaccountability and they used a
program.
They they actually used the teenchallenge program.
They're not a teen challenge,um, but they went through the
training and used theircurriculum.
So they taught me characterdevelopment and how to like pick
something that my my characteris lacking and actively seek
scripture and work on that in mylife, like humility and

(36:18):
tolerance and responsibility andall of those things.
And I really just began to workon who I was.
Um, and it was at the program umbecause uh when my dad lost his
voice, I was so angry at Godthat I said, Well, I'll never, I
will never sing for you.

(36:39):
I will never use my voice foryou again.
I've I've had it.
I will never go back, ever.
And I meant it with every fiberof my being.
And then at the program, um,this group came, I can't
remember their name, but theycame and it was crazy because
I've never heard a group do thisbefore.
But they were up on stage andthey were like, hey, do any of

(37:01):
the women in this program sing?
And I had never told anyone thatI sang ever.
And but I sang in praise andworship in my seat, and people
had heard me, and they werelike, Angie does.
And so they called me up onstage, and now they're now and
I'm like, how do I say no now?
You know?
So I go up there and they'relike, Do you know any songs?

(37:23):
And I'm like, God on themountain, I know that one.
Um, and so they played it and Isang it, and the walls began to
like break.
And um, I promise God that therewould never be a time that
anyone asked me to speak, tosing, to talk, anything, to
share his glory.

(37:44):
Would I ever silence myselfagain?
Because he had given me a voicethat people could hear, and I
would never ever silence itagain.
And I haven't, I mean, he'slike, No, she has the the
receptionist at the office, theywere like, How how well do you
know your coworkers?
And she said, I know that Angiesings praise and worship in the

(38:06):
bathroom.
So, you know, I'm just lettingit out there, I'm letting people
hear it.

SPEAKER_03 (38:12):
So, what is uh what does the life look like when you
I'm assuming there's like agraduation out of the program,
right?
Stuff like that.
So all the things that you felt,because you you do you describe
it as a bubble.
Yes.
Everything, it's like when yougo on vacation and nothing is
reality, yeah, but it's allreal.
You feel good, life is great,you go do a little shopping, you

(38:33):
go to places you've never seenbefore, you put your feet in the
sand, you know, whatever.
Then you come back to reality.
What did how how did you stay ofa sober mind and actually keep
all the progress that wasdeveloped in that program when
you came out?

SPEAKER_00 (38:47):
Well, that's where the year and a half comes back
because the program is ayear-long program.
So I graduated the program and Isaid, God, am I ready to go
home?
And He did not give me libertyto go home.
So I did an internship there.
Internship is six months.
It was a year and a half.
I did an internship and I didcompleted the program.

(39:10):
And after my internship, um Istill said, God, is it time for
me to go home?
Now I have kids at home.
My mom has them.
They're they're still in school,and my mama heart has healed,
and now I want to go home to mybabies, but God didn't release
me right away.
So after I graduated myinternship, I said, God, I'm

(39:33):
gonna stay um until you open adoor, and I know without a
shadow of a doubt that you'resaying that I am ready to go
back to where I knew every drugdealer in town.

SPEAKER_04 (39:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (39:46):
And so um there was a lady, her name was Pam Bland,
she uh worked for the state ofArkansas, and uh she loved that
ministry, and she would come upfrom uh Magnolia, Arkansas, and
she would bring barbecue and shewould just do stuff for the
ladies, and she had met me, andI don't know why, but she just

(40:06):
kind of liked me.
And um, she called about a monthafter my inter internship was
done, and she asked them, shesaid, Um, is Angie ready to go
home?
Because I have a job in myoffice that I would really love
her to have.
And I said, Okay, God, I hearyou.
Yeah.
So um I told him I was leavingand I was going home and I moved

(40:29):
back to Arkansas.
Well, the job didn't it, jobs inthe state are not like it's not
like as soon as you leave, theyopen it.
Like you have to wait for it topost to apply.
So I got another job in themeantime because I needed to
start making some money andtaking care of my family.
Um, and then when the jobposted, I applied and I went in
for this interview and I'm like,I'm a felon, you know, I've done

(40:52):
all the things, I'm onprobation.

SPEAKER_04 (40:54):
Um Lisa.

SPEAKER_00 (40:57):
So I I went in there and I'm like, but you know, with
my judge, when I when I cameback after completing the
program, they ultimately onlysentenced me to three felonies
and um and one misdemeanor.
So um, but it was on my recordand I was on probation and I
told them that in the interview.

(41:17):
Well, something happened whenthey ran my name.
Well, none of it popped up.
So they hired me.
Something.
So I went to Arkansas, I went toLittle Rock, yeah, and I did my
training.
Um, I was supposed to be therefor two weeks, but um God really
accelerated my my ability tolearn what they were teaching
me.
Um, and so after a week, theysaid, You don't need to come

(41:38):
back, just go and start work.
So I went and um the they got acall in Little Rock um from my
ex-husband, and he said, Youknow you have a felon working
for you, right?
So they re-ran my name.

SPEAKER_03 (41:52):
Thank God for ex yeah so it was a live crucible.

SPEAKER_00 (41:55):
So they re-ran my name and everything popped up.
And so they called and theysaid, We're gonna have to let
you go.
So that time it popped up.
It did.

SPEAKER_03 (42:03):
That's on them.

SPEAKER_00 (42:04):
Yeah, they said, We're gonna have to let you go,
unless you can clear your recordin three days.
We'll keep you on at the in inthree days.
So I said, Well, it's been nice,Miss Pam.

SPEAKER_03 (42:19):
Jesus resurrected on the I love you.

SPEAKER_00 (42:21):
I said, I I'm so glad.
I'm so grateful for everythingthat you've done for me, Miss
Pam.
You're an amazing woman.
And she said, I'm not done withyou.
She said, Who was your judge?
And I said, Well, it was youknow, Hamilton Singleton.
And she said, got on the phone,Mr.
Singleton, my name is Pam Bland,and I am the hearing officer at

(42:42):
driver control.
And I have a young lady herethat is an exceptional young
woman.
She is incredibly knowledgeableabout what I need done, and I
need her to work for me.
What can you do to make thishappen?
He said, Well, let me thinkabout it.
And I thought, we've heard thatbefore, right?
I was like, I'm thinking aboutall of the times he saw me,

(43:06):
right?
I said, I'm like, so I go homeand um He got BTSD for me.
So I go home and my phone rangat nine o'clock the next
morning.
It was Judge Singleton.
And he said, Um, Miss Wilson,because that was my my name at
the time, Miss Wilson.
Um, I need you to drive to ElDoreda.

(43:28):
I need you to pick up somepaperwork.
And I'm thinking, now I'm hisheir in person, right?

SPEAKER_03 (43:32):
We get it takes.
I got a day and a half left.

SPEAKER_00 (43:35):
So I I'm I'm listening, and he says, You're
gonna pick up this paperwork,you're gonna take it to the
prosecuting attorney's office.
He is going to sign it, and thenyou're gonna take it to your
probation officer, and she isgoing to sign it.
Then you're gonna bring it to meand I'm gonna sign it.
And then you're gonna drive itback to El Doreda and you're
gonna take it to the clerk theclerk's office, they're gonna

(43:58):
put it into record, and thenthey're gonna send it to ACIC,
and I'm gonna have your recordsealed.
And um he said, but you can't beon probation and have your
record sealed, so I'm I'm alsogonna take you off probation.

SPEAKER_01 (44:12):
Come on now.

SPEAKER_00 (44:14):
And oh yeah, I looked at your file, and they
made all of your court timesconsecutive instead of
concurrent.
And so they should have madethem all go together.
And so your fines are around sixthousand dollars right now, but
I'm gonna combine them all andit's gonna drop down to five
hundred dollars.

(44:35):
But I need you to pay that fivehundred dollars when you go pick
up the paperwork, and thenyou're you're not gonna be a
felon, your record will besealed.
So in three days' time, myrecord was sealed, ACIC cleared
me, the state of Arkansas re-ranmy my name and it came back
clean, and uh they put me backto work.

(44:56):
And so um I am no longer a felonand I can work with kids, which
I do now with the Boys and GirlsClub.
And um, you know, that's whythat scripture today that I read
in church, like what what youmeant to harm me.
Yeah, because ultimately theywanted me to be fired when they
called.

SPEAKER_04 (45:17):
Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 (45:18):
So you meant it to harm me.
You just wanted me fired.
But not only do I now still havemy job, but I'm not a felon and
I don't have fines.
I don't have to go report everymonth.
And um when I got all that done,she said to me, Miss Pam said,
Um, Angie, it's not about whatyou know, it's about who you

(45:39):
know.
Always present yourself in amanner that is positive and make
an impact on people's lifebecause they will want to help
you.
And that has stuck with me.
And um then she told me she wasretiring in one year and she was
grooming me to take her job.
And so in one year after that, Ibecame the hearing hearing

(46:00):
officer, which is anadministrative judge over
driver's license in the state ofArkansas.

SPEAKER_01 (46:05):
The felony.

SPEAKER_00 (46:06):
So I went from standing in front of the judge
to being a judge to God's good.
And so um, from then, ever sincethen, my life has just, you
know, been progressing.
Um, and it's all because Iunderstand that I cannot be
perfect, but I can do all thingsthrough him.

(46:29):
And there are days, you know, wewent through a really traumatic
event not long ago, and it wasthe first time in a very long
time that my brain said, Oh, weshould use.
And I was like, wait a minute.
No, but I have learned copingskills.
So I I do have PTSD, and thereare times that I have night
terrors, and Earl has to get upin the middle of the night and

(46:51):
and tell me how to breathebecause it's overwhelming.
The memories come back, stufffloods in, and the power is that
once I'm through that moment, Idon't stay in it.
I don't allow it to stay in mylife.
Yes, there was a moment, I had amoment, but I moved past that.

(47:15):
I've learned how to use copingskills in my life.
I've learned that praise andworship is literally life for
me.
So he will help me breathethrough the moment and then he
will turn on praise and worship,and I will lay down and I will
go to sleep.
And, you know, life is just awhole different thing when you

(47:37):
marry someone who um loves theLord first and then puts you
next.
You know, um, it's just adifferent atmosphere.
Um, and I had to learn how toaccept that because you know, I
had never had that kind of love.
It was really hard for me atfirst.
I'm very, I am hyperindependent.

(47:59):
Um, I plan everything.
I mean, you never see her.

SPEAKER_04 (48:04):
Yeah, it don't need you.

SPEAKER_00 (48:06):
Yeah.
And I I even told him one time,I don't need you.
Yeah.
So the key is you're gonna haveto always make sure I want you.

SPEAKER_01 (48:14):
Um, but I told her one time I said, let me be your
husband, please.
And she's like, What?
Let me be your husband.
There's some things that I cantake care of as your husband
that you don't have to do.

SPEAKER_00 (48:27):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (48:27):
You don't have to worry about that.
I'll take care of that.

SPEAKER_00 (48:30):
I had to teach myself, but I had to, it don't
just fall and you be like, Oh, II want to, I wanna be someone
who will let him do things forme.
And then it just happens.
You have to say, Okay, today I'mgonna allow him to pump my gas.
Today, we're here at the day.
Today, I'm like, I used to likemoney, like you would have I

(48:52):
would have never turned my moneyon over to somebody because I
have been taught through lifethat I had to take care of me.

SPEAKER_02 (49:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (49:00):
But now he handles the finances and he'll say um
something about the account.
I'll be like, I don't know.
I've not even looked at ourchecking account in like six
months.
I don't know what's in there.
You're just that's you, youknow, and that is that's that is
like leaps and bound growth.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (49:19):
So now y'all went through all this stuff.
So kind of kind of tell the theviewers or the listeners, what
is it that y'all do now?
Not only what do you are youallowed to say what you're going
to try to do?
That is that uh yeah, is thatcovered up knowledge or is that
that out there?

SPEAKER_01 (49:34):
No, say some of it we can talk about.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (49:37):
Everyone knows that our ultimate goal is to be a
hundred percent in ministry.
Like I mean, our jobs areministry, like you know, we
minister to people in addictionat work and we minister to I
minister to the kids.
I mean, I can't speak about God,but I can sure show them the
love of God through what I dofor them and how I treat them.
Um so that's no secret.

(49:57):
So that is the ultimate goal.

SPEAKER_01 (49:59):
Like, yeah, everybody knows that.
That's the part of it.
We are working on our 501c3, getour own nonprofit so we can get
things up and running.
Eventually, we want to be inthat ministry part of helping.
Uh, we want to be able to notonly help in the church, but
also helping the community.
We'll be able to connect witheveryone um because we want to
help everybody as much as wecan.

(50:21):
We are uh doing some new music,some new things that are coming
up.
Um, we've been recording somenew stuff, writing some new
stuff, which I'm I'm superexcited about because that's
kind of like my forte things Ilove the most.
Um, but we are your boys and isCaden doing too, or just uh
yeah.
Yes, uh now we have uh myyoungest son now is also playing

(50:41):
drums and stuff for us now.
Okay.
Oldest son is um does therecording and help with the
sound and help with all that,plus play bass and other
instruments too.
Yeah.
So it's kind of a variety thatwe'll be able to do it all
together.
But at the same time, again,eventually it's gonna be a
full-time deal that we'll beable to do and enjoy.

SPEAKER_03 (51:01):
So on the on the the stuff that y'all do on a daily
basis with the um what is itthat y'all do at the jobs you
have right now?
Because I know y'all do quite abit of of stuff with the
rehabilitation and all thatstuff.
So what is it that y'all you'redoing right now at your jobs?

SPEAKER_00 (51:18):
Well, we um we teach classes um about the things that
we've talked about, copingskills, um learning how to
return to who you were beforeaddiction um and to your
purpose, like um, becauseaddiction is all consuming.

SPEAKER_04 (51:34):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (51:34):
Um and so um when you step out of it into
recovery, um you you have tolearn everything.
You know, one time I read a athing where they said if you
start using at the age of 14 andyou use for 10 years, when you
quit, it's like you're 14 againbecause you've oh you're that's

(51:54):
all you've to wear when you allthat stuff.
And so people have to learn howwhen I start abusive.

SPEAKER_03 (52:03):
You're still a kid, well, yeah, it's that's a fact.
That's okay.

SPEAKER_00 (52:06):
But we teach them coping skills and life skills.

SPEAKER_03 (52:09):
So can you pause on some of those and say what some
of those would be?

SPEAKER_00 (52:12):
Yeah.
So when I teach a class onanxiety and coping skills, um,
it's coping skills are going tobe different for you than they
are for me because your anxietyis different.
Um, and so some coping skillsfor me that work is like I said
a while ago, he he teaches me,he helps me to breathe.
So I breathe through the moment,like deep breaths in through the
nose and then out through themouth.

(52:34):
Um, and uh he will have me takea drink of my my water because
you can't you can't be in thatmoment and also be in another
moment.
So things and he'll say, like,remember when we went to the
beach?

SPEAKER_03 (52:47):
So things that'll tether you back, bring you back
around you to the reality ofwhere you are and what's going
on.

SPEAKER_00 (52:52):
Like, what did the what did the sand feel like when
you were walking on when youwere at the beach?
How did it feel?

SPEAKER_03 (52:56):
You got something else that you remember makes
your brain work in a differentway.

SPEAKER_00 (52:59):
Some people it's being outside in nature, some
people it's a shower, likegetting in a shower in the
water.

SPEAKER_01 (53:06):
A time machine.
Yes, yes, but time machine.
Yes.
I love my showers with a week.

SPEAKER_00 (53:10):
But it's my favorite coping skills are important
because um without them, whenthat moment hits, and if you
don't know what it is that willhelp you ground, then you're
gonna succumb to the moment.

SPEAKER_03 (53:22):
So, how can let's pause that for a minute.
So, how can somebody saywatching right now, they're
having issues with uh addictionor anxiety or whatever the case
may be, how how do they kind ofdissect that or examine to find
out what theirs is?
Like what would those steps?
Are there steps to get to whereyou can plainly see what that is
for you?

SPEAKER_01 (53:42):
Yes.
Um, the main thing is is like wewere talking about a little
while ago, you gotta learn todiscipline yourself to recognize
yourself.
So, what I have to do is I haveto stop and go, what is the
reason of this situation?
Why am I being triggered?
Why am I being triggered?
Why do I have these emotions andwhy am I feeling this way right

(54:03):
now?

SPEAKER_00 (54:04):
And you have to realize that the only person
responsible for your triggersare you.
So just because if Earl'sactions are triggering me, I
can't put it off on him.
I have to say, okay, I wastriggered.

SPEAKER_03 (54:18):
Now I need to What is it that he said that it's
spurring something up and belike, Yes, and you have to own
it.

SPEAKER_00 (54:24):
Like um being able to own the fact that I'm
triggered and it's not him, it'sme.
And then recognize, okay, whatis it about that that why did
that trigger me?
Okay, now I need now I know thatit triggers me.
So when someone else comes at meand they're doing it, what can I
do to get through the moment?

SPEAKER_04 (54:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (54:45):
What is gonna work?
Let's say for him and I, I toldhim early on, you can't trap me
in a room.
I will freak out.
So he doesn't stand in the thedoor like to block my exit from
a room because it it makes mehave a panic attack.
But I told him, it's not you.
It's not you.
You're not scaring me.
I'm not afraid of you.

(55:07):
It's a trigger for me from mypast.
So, what what what helped us getthrough that moment is okay, I
communicated with him.
I told him that is somethingthat triggers me.
And he said, Okay, I won't, Iwon't do that.
Um, and also he'll say, youknow, he'll he'll make sure when
we go somewhere, if we're in alike a place that's very

(55:29):
crowded, sometimes it makes meshut down.
Like last night when we went toeat at Roadhouse, he was like,
Are you okay?
You're being quiet.
And he's like, I'm like yeah,and I'm like, Yes, I'm okay.
You know, he knows that a lot ofpeople talking at once because I
do have hypersensitivity becauseof PTSD.
So I'm always aware and I'malways looking for an exit.

(55:50):
Um, and so he knows that thatdoes that for me.
So he just helps ground me bysaying, It's okay.
Um, it's gonna be okay.
We're just here to eat.
And I'm like, yeah, I know it'sgonna, it's gonna be fine.

SPEAKER_03 (55:59):
So so talking, you just kind of like the breathing
thing with the middle of thenight, just kind of talking, you
do it, and it's that assurance,right?
Everything is normal,everything's okay, you're safe.

SPEAKER_01 (56:09):
Yes.
What I had to learn the way Ilearned to do it was I had some
people that was in my childhoodthat I kind of grew up with.
And we was at uh a wedding, andthose people were there, and I
totally got triggered.
And she came to me, she's like,You're acting weird.
I'm like, Yeah, I'm I'm just Imean, my anxiety threw the roof.
I was just like going crazy.

(56:30):
I just could not sit still, staycalm.
She's like, You're just beingdifferent.
I said, Yeah, I'm working, I'mbeing triggered.
And I didn't at the time knowwhy, but then I stopped and
realized and so started askingmyself, okay, why am I having
this?
Why am I having these emotions?
And it brought by differentscenarios of things that
happened in my childhood withthose people.
And the first thing I said was,okay, how do I fix this?

(56:53):
Because I don't want this.
Yeah, I don't I don't want thisat all.
And so at that moment, I waslike, if I don't confront it,
it's not gonna go away.
So that day she she thought itwas strange, but I actually
walked up to the table, sat atthe table, and had a full-on
conversation with those people.
And because I had to face thatfear, I had to face that

(57:14):
trigger, I had to face thosethings.
Later on, we even now when we goback to um Camden, those some of
those people are there.
I see them, I don't get affectedby that anymore because I'm not
afraid anymore.
Face it, yeah.
Because I face it, I confront itand I deal with it.
It's the same way when I'mworking through those emotions.
Okay, why am I having this?
Why is it going on?

(57:34):
How do I change the direction?
I always say this in my classes.
Uh I ID, I choose and then Ichange.
ID what the problem is andunderstand why it's happening,
then I choose whether I'm gonnachange the situation or not
change the situation.
And then if you get to the partof changing, change and whether
I'm gonna continue to do thesame thing or I'm gonna change

(57:55):
the whole scenario.
Yeah.
And when I do that, it changeseverything about those triggers.
And then if you find out theydon't come as often, yeah.
You find out you don't get asemotional anymore.
Those things no longer botheryou anymore.

SPEAKER_00 (58:09):
When you identify your triggers, it's almost like
it just they they don't they'renot as big because they don't
have that power of I try to makeyou they're trying to be their
master over you is what it is.

SPEAKER_03 (58:22):
I mean you are their slave until you break free.

SPEAKER_01 (58:25):
And so of course, like I was saying earlier about
response, response, and react.
Yeah, if I react, I give themthe power.

SPEAKER_02 (58:34):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (58:35):
Okay.
But if I don't give them whatthey want, I give them a
response.
Therefore, you're not gettingwhat you want, I maintain the
control.
Yeah, I maintain the peace, Imaintain Earl.
And if I maintain myself, I candiscipline myself to make sure
that I'm still in bounds.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (58:55):
Open communication is really important too.
Yes.
In any relationship you're at.
Like um, if you keep stuff thatbothers you a secret and nobody
knows, then they're justconstantly doing it, then it
just kind of builds.
But once you communicate that,and people are really
understanding.
I tried to teach that in myclass the other day.
I I told someone the storyabout, you know, Earl early on

(59:16):
knew not to block my exit.
And the girl didn't really wantto hear it.
Um, and she said, Well, youcan't just go through life
expecting people to move out ofthe way for you if they're
blocking your door.
And I said, Yes, I can.
I absolutely can.
I have I have the right to sayI'm not, I don't want to be
blocked in.
Now I communicate, I because Icommunicate openly with people.

(59:39):
Hey, you know, it really bothersme if you stand in in the door.
Um, it's not that I don't trustyou, it's just, you know,
there's just a lot of traumafrom my past.
And so I'm very open about it.
And I'm I have found that it'sless and less bothering.

SPEAKER_03 (59:54):
So so you're talking about triggers and and how Earl
has been there for you.
Now, some people, I I'm assumingprobably a lot of people, either
they feel like they can't go totheir spouse or they don't have
a spouse.
Um, you mentioned earlier aboutaccountability.
Uh what's some ways or or maybesome some relief on them?

(01:00:19):
You said people are reallyunderstanding, but how how can
they maneuver that or how canthey deal with that if they feel
like they're by themselves andthey don't have anybody?
Like what what what do you do ifyou feel like you don't have
anybody to to help you withthat?

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:33):
The opposite of addiction is community.
When you have a community ofpeople, so if you have sheltered
yourself away and you don't havepeople that you talk to, that's
a problem.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:43):
Yeah.
So what I Which is what thenatural response is.
You want to pull away, you wantto seclude, you want to nobody
can touch me and hurt me if I'mby myself.
I call it my box.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:53):
Okay.
Because what happens is I put upwalls.
My first, my first instinct isto put up a wall.
Yeah.
You hurt me, you're not gettingto me.
But what you understand is whenyou put up walls over time, you
box yourself in.
Yeah.
When you box yourself in, youbox yourself out of
opportunities, you box yourselfout of people, good people in
your life, you box yourself inyourself, and you're stuck in

(01:01:16):
yourself.

unknown (01:01:17):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:17):
Uh, I had a I had a guy say one time, he said,
What's the definition of a rut?
He says, It's just a grave ofboth ends knocked out.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:24):
And it's the same way when you box yourself in, I
keep myself from theopportunities and things in my
life, but I'm self-absorbed inthat area, in that place.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:34):
In your own echo chambers, or whatever you
believe about yourself, whateveryou think, it's gonna just be
reverb back and back.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:40):
I remember learning this myself because uh I didn't
get I didn't go to rehab, Ididn't go to those things.
The only thing I have was myrelationship with God.
God helped me through thoseprocesses with me with my with
being with alcohol.
And I remember saying, God, God,why can't you get in my box?
Won't you just come get in mybox, right?
And God says, I'm too big.

(01:02:02):
He took me to scripture where hesaid, The earth is my footstool.
He said, My pinky toe don't evenfit in your box, man.
Because if I get in your box,I'm gonna bust it out.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:11):
But that's the natural instinct.
Yeah, you want guys to come intoyour box and you don't want to
be outside of your safe space.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:18):
But if I personally deal with the offense, most of
it, 90% is really truthfully isforgiveness.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:27):
When I truly forgive, how you really know you
forgave, when you can be aroundthat person and it no longer
affects you anymore.
And when I learn to forgive, Ican let go.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:38):
Yeah.
And vulnerability is reallyimportant too.
And I know that's just a reallynasty word, it was for me for a
long time.
But vulnerability is importantto recovery because if you're
not vulnerable enough to showpeople, you know, hey, I'm
struggling, hey, I I I needthis, or um, I need someone to

(01:02:58):
talk to, um, then you you dostay alone.
But it it requires a level ofvulnerability.
It it's a it's a like taking arisk.
You're you need to find someone.
Um, you know, first off, I sayfind a church.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:14):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:14):
Find a church where you can go and you can feel um
first the presence of God.
Um, and second, you can feellove from the people.
Um, because once you do that,um, you know, you're gonna
gravitate toward, like for me,when we go to churches, like I
can almost tell you the peoplewho I gravitate, gravitate

(01:03:35):
toward um have been through sometype of abuse.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:38):
Yeah, there's that connection there immediately
without even really knowinganything yet.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:42):
It's just but it is sad.
I want to say this, it is sadwithin the church today.
They don't accept a lot ofpeople like that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:48):
And that's one of the things with her and I, we
want to change that becausethat's the place everyone
belongs.
Yeah.
We've been in churches, theylook at you like you've lost it,
you know.
We go with the titus, yeah.
We was talking about that too.
Yeah, because they're like,What?
You got all the tattoos, you gotall that stuff we you know,
yeah, but Satan lover.

(01:04:10):
But yet we serve God, we loveGod, we care about God, and
those are the people that needthat.
Those are the people we went tosearch not too long ago, and we
came into the service, was atthe service, and people walked
in the streets, it was using.
And it was there while they werewith us, and pastor came to say,
we don't know what to do.
Yeah, and I was like, I mean AJjust jumped in and like, okay,

(01:04:33):
we know what to do, we'll takecare of it.
We went in there, just jumped onboard, started helping them,
trying to do things they neededto do, make sure they got the
resources they needed.
Yeah, because a lot of churchesdon't know how to handle those
situations.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:46):
And two, a lot of the times when you're you're
scared to reach out, you you'vegot a victim mentality.
Like in your mind, you're stilla victim.
Yeah.
You know, you're still trappedin that.
Um, oh, you know, I've beenhurt.
And not to make little of it,because, you know, I've been
through some things, um, but Ihave chosen that they are that's

(01:05:09):
not gonna be, you know, that'snot gonna be my story.

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:13):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:13):
My story is not of me being a victim.
My story is, yes, I was ha I wasmade to be a victim, but I
overcame that through the blood.
And I will um when I see peoplewho are like, you know, oh, you
know, um, they I can't give thisand I can't do that because so
and so did this and so and sodid that, I'll tell them, you're

(01:05:34):
not a victim.
It's always yeah, you're not avictim.
You're not a victim of thecircumstances.
You you maybe you can't, maybeyou can't get your driver's
license and a car and anapartment right now, but you can
set your sights on the easiestone, which is getting your
driver's license and you canwork toward that.
But as long as you keep saying,you know, I've got all of these

(01:05:54):
barriers, then you're stuck inthe barriers.
But if you'll say, you knowwhat, I'm fixed to make a plan.
I'm gonna figure out.
We help people do that.
We're gonna, okay.
What is it that you need rightnow?
And if we help them meet theirtheir immediate needs, like
they're hungry.
If you come in my office andyou're hungry, um, you don't

(01:06:15):
want to hear me say, you know,um, you can you can be in
recovery because you're hungry,you know?

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:20):
So think pasture basic needs.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:23):
So you help them meet their their immediate needs
and then you help them form aplan um that can create an
environment for them to thrivein recovery.
Um, because as long as you'reliving on the streets with a
hundred people who are using,you're never gonna be but a
hundred and one person using.
So we help them, you know,figure out how can I get away

(01:06:44):
from those circumstances?
How can I change the people,places, and things that I'm
doing?

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:48):
Um we've had people come in and be so negative.
Oh my lord, be so negative.
I was telling you earlier.
We don't I can't tell you howmany times I've been cussed out
and all this other because theythey're struggling.

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:00):
And it don't even affect us with me, especially.
It don't even affect me becauseI'm like, uh, they're just
having a day.
They're gonna do what they'regonna do.
They're gonna do what they'regonna do.
Uh and so we even had peoplecome in our our uh program who
also were just negative all thetime and they want to cause a
fight so they can get out of it,or one, or this, that, and the
other.
You know, we had one thathonestly all everybody was like,

(01:07:22):
we just want them gone.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, and but we me and anotherperson was like, we're not
giving up on them.
They would just want us to quit.
We're not gonna let them quit.
Yeah, we just held on.
Now the people's lives aregetting turned around because we
actually was there for them tohelp them and to strengthen them
and say, hey, look, you can dothis.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:41):
So on the on the flip side of this, you kind of
touched on that a little bit.
What is something churches andbelievers?
How do we need to reframe or ourour perspective of people in
this life?
Because it's very easy.
Us four no more, like you.
I told you you f you might havesaw, I don't know if I did it
after you left, but we installedor I installed a um a cigarette

(01:08:04):
butt hold their thing at thechurch so they can have a smoke
place.
Because they've been doing it.
Right.
So I'm gonna give them a placeto go do it now.
And uh some people they didn'tlike it, but I didn't ask them.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:17):
I understand.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:18):
If if we if we have people that are coming into the
church and they still hadissues, but they're at church,
what a great place to be setfree.
That's right.
And how are we gonna disciplethem if they ain't coming?

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:29):
That's kind of like the people say, you know, when
we talk about narcan and howit's um a life-saving thing if
someone's in overdose, and thenwe've had people say, Well, you
know, this is not the first timethey've done that.
You know, how many times do younarcand them until every time
they need it?
Because how can we get people tounderstand the love of God if we

(01:08:52):
just let them die?
And that's not just in overdose,but in pain, in sickness, and
whatever.
And when they're coming in,that's what Jesus is that narcan
to people who are lost.
He is that life-saving thingthat brings them back, and so
however many times we gotta handthem Jesus, we gotta hand them
Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:13):
I think it's overlooked, or maybe it's uh the
the burden of responsibility,the church doesn't feel it's
theirs, so they don't realizethat the blood is actually on
their hands.
Understand.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:26):
Uh first of all, if I do not know what's going on,
I'm gonna ask a question.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:33):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:35):
If you don't know what's going on with that person
in your church, ask questions.
Simple because you don't knowwhere they're at.
And if you don't know wherethey're at, then you don't know
what's going on.
We was in a church not too longago.
We went through a whole deal andwe did uh Angie spoke at the
church, and some of the peoplein the church was in the

(01:09:58):
schools, and they were talkingabout some things of the vape
and all this stuff was going on,and that the fentanyl was in the
vape and all this kind of stuff.
And the people that were in thechurch working at the school had
no clue there was fentanyl inthe vapes and that there was
even vaping.
And I'm sitting there like, Areyou kidding?
Seriously, wake up.

(01:10:19):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying?
Because they like tuned it out,like it was just like no big
deal when it is a big deal.
And if if you ask the question,you understand what's going on,
you know where they're at,therefore you have more
understanding how to help them.
Another thing that as a church,we need to do not only ask
questions, don't give up onthem.

(01:10:39):
Yeah, and don't get it wrong,you're gonna have to set some
boundaries, you're gonna have todo some things saying, okay,
this is where we're at, this iswhere we're gonna be.
Yeah, this is what's gonnahappen.
You're gonna have to set thoseboundaries, you're gonna have to
speak those boundaries becauseif you don't, it will get out of
hand.
But always show love, alwaysshow respect.

(01:11:00):
Even if they don't do right,it's okay.
Love them anyway, and let thembe them.
You pray for them, you help themwhatever they need, and then it
changes everything.
Our biggest thing is I I saythis all the time, I learned
people's behaviors.
When I learn that's what you'regoing to do, that's what you're
gonna do.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:21):
And if that's what you're gonna do, okay, you do
it.
I don't have to do those things,but I'll be here when you get
back.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:27):
Yeah, I'm gonna love you.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:29):
I'm gonna love you.
And even like when I went home,um, I had friends who, you know,
I had a whole bunch ofacquaintances because, you know,
of my of my connections.
I had a whole bunch of peoplewho like me.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:41):
Everybody's a best friend when you got drugs.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:43):
Yeah.
But I had a certain two or threepeople who um I really cared
about as people.
They had made sure I had food.
You know, if if I didn't havedrugs, they gave them to me.
If they didn't have, you know,we were people who actually
looked out for each other inthat world.
And so when I came home, I hadone of them reach out to me and,

(01:12:03):
you know, I'm so proud of you.
You're doing great.
If any you can do it, anybodycan do it.
And um, then they were like,hey, um, can, you know, we we
hang out.
And I was like, Yeah, it'd begreat to see you.
And I saw them, and then Irealized in that moment that
they were high.
And they were gonna, and then Iwas like, okay, one of two

(01:12:27):
things are gonna happen, and oneof them is likely, and the other
one is very, very dislikely.
And either I'm gonna go backtoward you where you're at, or
you're gonna gravitate to whereI'm at.
And I knew and I told him, I'mgonna have I love you, I'm still
gonna love you.
If you're hungry, I'm gonna, I'mgonna bring some food, but we

(01:12:50):
can't hang out.
Yeah, I have to love you fromover here.
Now I I still showed him all ofthe love that I could and
support and encouragement to tomove away from where he was.
But love is the key.
Showing love, but you don't haveto walk into the circumstances
with them.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:08):
There's a reason why the devil he's been doing this a
while.
There's a reason we did what wedid because that's what we
gravitate towards.

SPEAKER_01 (01:13:16):
Yeah.
Some of the things I startedwith was because of my abuse.
And because I got so comfortablebeing abused, I was attracted to
abuse, right?
So that's what I wanted back.
I wanted that reciprocated back.
So when I go to church and Icause a little rucus and they

(01:13:37):
don't like me, it becomes okay,it's the same thing.
But when I go to church and findsomebody that loves me, even
though I'm showing out, eventhough I'm not doing exactly the
way you think I should, itchanged my whole perspective of
about God, changed my wholeperspective of about people, and

(01:14:00):
it helps me to say, okay, thereis real love.
Because I never experienced reallove until I felt I got that
that that day, that peace that Igot from God that day.
And then man, this beautifulwoman over here.
But I never I never had truelove until then.

(01:14:20):
But when I found it, it changedmy life.
Now don't get it wrong.
In the beginning, it's realweird because when you ain't
never had it, you don't know howto accept it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:31):
And it makes it difficult because the
communication, we have so muchcommunication, communication
with the church people and thecommunication with those who are
in addiction, it's gonna feelweird for a minute.
Yeah, because it's gonna beuncomfortable.
But if we keep showing love, itchanges everything.
And I always and I always saythis if the nine gifts of the
spirit are there, something'sright.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:53):
If I keep showing it, and I'm not being abusive,
I'm not being mean, I'm nottrying to round them off, I'm
not trying to tell them not tocome back to church.
I'm sitting there to say, man,we're just glad to see you.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:04):
Well, I think you're here.
I think we get so caught up inum wanting to fix them.
We want to fix them.
We wanna, we wanna change theircircumstances and we want to,
but we want to do it right thenin our time and we want to do it
in our strength and the way thatwe think it should be.

(01:15:24):
And it's like when I marriedhim, you know, I didn't want to
get I didn't want to get up onstage.
Excited to see what happensnext.
But I didn't want to get onstage because I told him I don't
fit that mold of a preacher'swife.
Like I don't.
I have tattoos, um, you know, ummy the the side of my head was
shaved at the time.
And like I, you know, I I justam not like I I I'm not gonna

(01:15:48):
put them I cut them, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:50):
I'm gonna play game.

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:53):
She does do that now.
She's from LA, a lower Arkansas.
She got a pocket knife, Ipromise.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:59):
But now I realize that I don't want to fit into
that mold.
Yeah.
I don't want to be like thetypical pastor's wife.
I don't want to have theperfectly cuffed hair, and I
don't want to, I don't want tobe stereotypical.
I want to be who God designed meto be because I'm gonna reach a
a certain type of people thatare desperately needing what God

(01:16:23):
has birthed in me.
Um, and I have to give that samegrace to everyone that I come in
contact with in church becausethey're not gonna be perfect,
they're not gonna fit the moldof what I think they should be
and what I think they should bedoing, but I don't know what
God's birthing in them.
I don't know the circumstancesthey come from, but what I do

(01:16:44):
know is I love people, andthat's something I would have
never said a few years agobecause um and you pick some of
the harsh people to get alongwith.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:56):
I understand.
Yeah, we've been really umsurprised, her and I both.
We go, we go all over, travel,administer in different places,
and we've been in churches andwe we're not shocked, but the
things that they do, like you'retalking about the mode.
Oh, it's the God.
That has nothing to do with God.

(01:17:17):
Uh it's in the Bible.
That's not even close to theBible.
Yeah, it doesn't line up withthose things.
And when you see those things,because truth, like with me,
raised in the pastor's home,being a preacher's kid, and a
crankkid, there's abuse there.
Yeah, and there is religiousabuse.
Yeah, and when you see thosethings kind of things, when we

(01:17:37):
go to churches, we like say,Well, did you see that?
I say, Yeah, but did you seethat over there?
And say, Yeah, and we'd be like,Yeah, yeah, you know, you know,
we need to pray for them becausethat ain't right.
That part ain't right, you know,because I get up and well, the
Lord saying, Well, that wasn'tGod, that that was far from it,
you know.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:55):
Yeah, we've been somewhere there'd be a message
in tongues, and I'd be going.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:00):
I left speaking of that.
We was in a church one time andthe they had a missionary.
We've been there a couple oftimes, and these people, same
people giving these messagesongs, same, and it's apparently
been for years the sameinterpretation, the same
everything.
And we was they just ain't gotit yet.
Yes, and we was there, and therewas a message in tongues, and
you know, everybody's supposedto have the head bow.

(01:18:21):
I look, I'm looking going, I'mgonna watch the missionary.
We'll see how this works.
And the one we give theinterpretation, he looked at me
like, what?
And I was like, Okay, I'm notthe only one in the room.
Okay, thank you, Lord, for thatconfirmation.
Yeah, it's because that, yeah,that's been off the card.

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:38):
It's funny because we have a a friend of his as a
pastor, and his his friend'swife is the one.
I'm like, I would always say,Well, I'm not like her.
I'm not like her.
She's always so perfectly puttogether.
And um, and it was so crazybecause it was really
overwhelming me, and like I justfelt like I was falling short,

(01:18:58):
and that I I like he had marriedthe wrong person because I he
needs a he needs someone who canbe a good little preacher's
wife, and um I talk back, andyou know, it's all of the things
and it's sticking and watchingbleed.

SPEAKER_03 (01:19:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:19:13):
So we went we went to a conference, and um this
particular friend was there, andhis wife was there, and we like
really had a chance to sit downand talk with one another.
She and I did, and she was likeso desperately wanting to let
loose and not be in that perfectmold.

(01:19:34):
Like she she said to me, like, Iadmire the fact that you are
different and you know that andyou accepted it and like you've
embraced it, and like I desire,like I seek that.
And I thought, wow, thank you,God, for first allow like
sending this to me so that I canI can be okay with just being a

(01:19:56):
little bit different.
And um, and then I began tospeak, you know, life, giving
words to her and encouragementto her.
Um, and and she needed it inthat moment, and we were able to
uh confess to one another whatit was that was bothering us,
and and it it like allowed usthis freedom to move past it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:20:18):
To get us to where we are now when her and I first
got married, this is true.
To get her on the platform was amiracle of God, yeah.
To get her to open up and sing,a miracle from God, to work with
work with her musically, amiracle from God.
She has the talent, she has theability, and she's absolutely,

(01:20:40):
and I can honestly say she'sabsolutely amazing.
And to get her to see that wasvery difficult.
And at times she does.
She struggles with seeing that.
And I keep telling her, like,babe, you got this, like this is
real.
But when she gets up to stinkthing now, you guys, I mean,
seen it this morning.

(01:21:00):
I mean, God's there, God showsup, God moves, God does the
things, and it's on point, it'swhere God wants her to be, it's
the place that she needed to be.
But for so long, she thoughtthis is the way it's supposed to
be.
And I keep telling her, babe,you just be you.
The other day we were talkingabout some stuff musically, and
I said, I said this to her.

(01:21:21):
She said, Well, I don't want tobe like this, and I don't want
to do this, and I don't want todo that.
Blah blah blah.
I said, babe, she said, All Iwant to do is just worship God.
I said, That's the only thingI'm asking you to do.

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:30):
That's it.
That truly is my heart's desire.

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:33):
Like, I could do that or on the technical end.
You let me work on this music,you let me work on this
technical end.
You just get up here and worshipGod.
That's all I want you to do.
That's it.
And the more she does it, themore she comes out of that
shell.
And the more I mean, you see methis morning.
I mean, God was there.

SPEAKER_02 (01:21:51):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:52):
You know, and then of course, and everything.
Yeah, beautiful.
I have and I if you didn't seeme, I stand right there
grinning, like, that's my babyright there.

SPEAKER_03 (01:22:01):
Yes, just trying to keep his composure.
Come on now.

SPEAKER_00 (01:22:05):
Well, also, I had this crazy thought in my head
that women were not supposed tospeak in church.
Like you could sing and youcould be on the praise and
worship, but but you shouldn'tbe, women shouldn't be pastors,
and women shouldn't be this.
And I really believed that, butat the same time, my desire was
for God to use me to speak topeople.

(01:22:26):
And so we were at a conference,and there was this woman up
there, and like, man, she wasbringing the word and people
were being ministered to.
And I was like, God, I want thisto be me.
And he said, No, you don't.
You said women aren't supposedto do that.
And I was like, right.
Oh Lord.

(01:22:47):
And I was like, you know, Iasked for forgiveness right
there.
Like, God, please forgive me forlike deciding who you could use.
Like, who am I to decide who youget to appoint to a position?
And uh from that moment on, um,I've just like, God, if it's for
me to say, you know, put me upthere and I'll say it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:23:08):
That people have asked me that before, that you
know, the deep theologicalquestions.
They try to trap you, or theytry, or they're really just
seeking.
They're like, so should women bepastors, women do this and that.
I'm like, who am I to tell Godwho to use?
Yeah.
I ain't gonna step in.
I'm I'm not worthy to step intothat role.
You go ahead.
I'll sit over here and justwatch God work.
I'm not gonna tell God who hecan use, right?

SPEAKER_01 (01:23:28):
We was at a church not so long ago, and um, it was
amazing.
We've been this church severaltimes, and and the first thing
when we first got married, nowthis is saying we sang, and at
that time she was real bashfulor whatever, you know.
And then we just did a revival afew months back, uh, just a few
months ago at that church, andthe lady that does the music

(01:23:49):
come to her and it's like, Oh mygod, you're absolutely amazing.
Like, from where you were towhere you are now, it's
absolutely incredible.
Leaps and bounds.
She's like, Because sherealized, okay, she is good, and
she has beginning to build thatconfidence and understand it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:24:06):
Because it is, but the confidence isn't in me, it's
in the ability to allow him to,and I I'd say this every time
before I go up because thenerves hit right before I go up,
and I'm like, I should just tellEarl to do it, just go sit down.
And I and I literally say this,I say this to myself every time.
This is not about you.

(01:24:26):
And I say, God, this is yourthing.
So you can work through me andand let it be you because it it
sure can't be me.
My knees are notching togetherright now.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:39):
Just last night, I said, if you got the word, baby,
you bring it.
I'll just step out of the way.
I said, I don't mind steppingout of the way.
Because I'm gonna be honest withyou, I have prayed for so long
for a spouse that I can actuallywork in the ministry with.
And now that I have it, I'mlike, just go be you.

SPEAKER_02 (01:24:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:58):
I get more joy of seeing her minister than I do
myself.

SPEAKER_02 (01:25:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:25:02):
And don't get it wrong, I like music and I love
preaching.
But I enjoy it more when she'sdoing it.
It's changed.

SPEAKER_00 (01:25:11):
And my adopted, before my adopted father had his
stroke, he told me that um Godwas calling me to preach.
And I was like, nah.
Women can't no, he's not, youknow.
Um, and then the uh about sixdrix about six months ago, I was
laying in I was laying in bedasleep and I had this dream, and

(01:25:34):
my my dad, um, he was standingup on a stage and there were
just people everywhere.
Um, and we were in a churchwhere the seats kind of went up
and it looked like um liketheater seating.
And he was up there and I waslike, Yes, you go.
And he was like, No.
And he handed me the microphoneand he said, It's your time.

(01:25:57):
It's your time.
And when I woke up, I had myhands in the air and I was
talking in tongues.
And I ever since then, I've hadthis confidence in not in
myself, but in the anointingthat has been passed to me
generationally, um, because mydad was anointed, he was an

(01:26:17):
anointed preacher, he was ananointed singer.
Like I love to hear his voice somuch.
Um, he had this most beautiful,smooth voice, and um he passed
away in 2020.
Um, and so for me to have thatdream, you know, it was it was
everything for me.

SPEAKER_01 (01:26:36):
Um, and so matter of fact, when we got married, I
actually told her this.
Uh, I had a spiritual mother whoI she was honestly a real mother
to me.
Amazing mother.
Now, my mom's good too.
You know what I mean?
She was amazing too, but thisthis person, Pastor Charlie, was
really her and Pastor Fred waslike my spiritual parents.

(01:27:01):
And we had such a connection, wewas really close.
And about the time that hepassed, it wasn't very long
after she passed, and I told herwhen we got married, I said, You
do realize what just happened,right?
And she's like, What is that?
I said, Your dad and PastorCharlie got to talking to God,

(01:27:23):
and now we're before God becausethey knew that this day was
coming.
Yeah, they knew that our liveswas going to be changed.
And I believe because when shepassed away, Pastor Charlie
passed away, I preached themessage that the torch would go
further than it's ever been ather at her service.

(01:27:44):
And now that I know what I know,I feel like it was passed down
to me.

SPEAKER_02 (01:27:49):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:27:50):
And now I'm actually carrying out some of the things
that she even wanted to do inlife that she wasn't able to do.

SPEAKER_00 (01:27:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:27:57):
And so it's been amazing.

SPEAKER_00 (01:27:59):
Well, my dad had a vision.
When once he was paralyzed, hewas paralyzed for like 20 years,
laid in a bed, paralyzed fromthe neck down in our home, and
we took care of him there.
And he had a vision of thissuper enormous move of God that
he was involved in.
And he told us all about it.
And when he passed away, my momwas so angry because she was

(01:28:24):
like, He had this dream.
What happened?
He had this dream.
I know it was real.
I know he did, he know he heardfrom God.
And it it just now it's over.
And so when I had the dream ofhim passing the anointing to me,
I realized his dream was still,it was still active and it was
still happening.
It just didn't happen the wayshe thought it was like the

(01:28:46):
anointing has been passed downto me.
And I believe that our children,even after us, will carry it.
You know, I know my son Colton,I know he's called by God, and
he knows it.
He hasn't, he hasn't acceptedthat call yet.
Um, and and Blaine and Caden andall of our all of our boys love
God.

(01:29:07):
And um so I know that they arewhat we have, the anointing that
we have, we're gonna be able topass to them.
And I, you know, my dad maynever not ever see it in the
physical, but he sees it in thesupernatural.
He he his anointing has livedon.

SPEAKER_01 (01:29:22):
I also want we would aim our ministry reclamation
ministry, because reclamationactually means getting the
things our forefathers nevergot.
Reclaiming everything.
And reclaiming everything forthose should have our families
should have got.
Because there was a lot ofthings that our families missed,
yeah, that we're able now, wewant to receive.

unknown (01:29:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:29:43):
Because we're planning our lives so that our
kids can receive even more.

unknown (01:29:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:29:48):
Living for that legacy.
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (01:29:51):
Spiritual sons and daughters.
We just, you know, everywhere wego, I just I I hear that um
Pastor Don um our Overseer.
Um he preached that one timethat your your legacy is
important.
What kind of legacy are youleaving behind?
Are you gonna?
I mean, we know we have physicalsons, no daughters, but we have

(01:30:13):
physical sons.
Um, and but we want to have wewant to have no in the name of
Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 (01:30:20):
I let it say give, Ryan, not yet.
Everybody just lift up forwardhands to the screen, right?
Cancel that Lord's pass throughin the name of Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 (01:30:30):
But we want to have spiritual sons and daughters.
We want to create a legacy thatcontinues after we're gone,
because if we don't share and wedon't give of ourselves, then
everything that God has broughtus from is wasted.
And I I I just can't imaginegoing through the things that
I've gone through and Godbringing me out of that for it

(01:30:53):
to just sit idle, you know.
I have to tell people, I have togive that to people.

SPEAKER_01 (01:30:58):
It was Joseph when he got ready to pass.
He's like, Don't leave my bonesin Egypt.
Carry me with you.
Yeah.
And the Bible says, when theycarry, they carried his body in
the wilderness the entire time.
Like, and when they got to theplace that was theirs, of
course, by the way, before theyeven got there, when they got
released, for he as soon as theygot released, they automatically

(01:31:20):
wrote down who got what.
Which was absolutely amazingbecause in our in our life,
God's already got wrote downwhat who who gets what.
Yeah.
And when they got there, theplace they buried in became an
inheritance for the kids.
Which means everything thatJoseph had achieved now, they
was able to reap the benefitsof.

SPEAKER_04 (01:31:39):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:31:41):
So and we want to be the same way.
That what I've always said this.
I want them to say, when theylook at me, if I'm in the
casket, look at me and go, hey,my dad taught me everything
about God.
Yeah.
My god, dad taught me how tolive a life of victory.
My dad taught me these things,and I want to live that way.
And in in the end, even in ourold kids' life, just even here

(01:32:02):
recently, we're starting becauseof the healthy relationship we
have, and our relationship withGod, it's changing with them.
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (01:32:10):
We had so my son, uh let's see, I think his freshman
year or sophomore year, I don'tremember.
He we changed his schools.
He was at a big school, he waskind of getting lost in the
numbers and all that, uh, makingbad friends.
So we we found a small school,somebody in our church, their
son graduated from there, andJesse went to the graduation,
and every single student had ateacher that talked about him

(01:32:32):
and said good things.
And it was just it was a long,it was long, but it was it was
cool and it made an impression.
Well, for the interview, uh Iwas sitting there, because you
have to interview to get in.
Tristan was sitting there at theI think the assistant principal,
and he's going down these listof questions of why do you want
to be here?
What do you want to do in life,you know, blah blah blah.

(01:32:53):
And he gets to this one, hesaid, in one word, what what do
you what would you say thatwould describe your dad?
One word that would describeyour dad without even thinking,
he said humility.
And I'm like, man, you're tryingto make me cry in front of this
man.
And it's just like that whetherwe're trying to leave a legacy
behind or not, we are.

(01:33:14):
We are in one way or another.
Um so speaking of legacy, like II guess we can wrap.
You have anything else you youwanna you wanna add to anything?
Um so now what would you wherewould you send people to be in
contact with your ministry?
Do you have that launched yet?

SPEAKER_01 (01:33:32):
Not everything's launched completely yet.
Okay.
Um, we are working in theprocess of getting those things
done.

SPEAKER_00 (01:33:38):
We do have a Facebook page.
Yes.
It's Reclamation Ministry.

SPEAKER_03 (01:33:41):
Reclamation ministry.
And all those links, everythinghe they mentioned will be in the
the links in the descriptions.
Uh, we haven't got everythingcompletely launched yet uh with
that end of it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:33:51):
But you do have your personal Instagram, Facebook,
something like that.
I got personal FacebookFacebook, you can look up on uh
she's got a personal Facebookyou can look up on.
Um we uh why are you laughing?

SPEAKER_00 (01:34:02):
Is that listen because my Facebook is like my
life.
I find joy, joy is everything tome.
So if it makes me laugh onFacebook, I'm like, share it.
You know, I I just believe in uhin laughter, and I have um a I
guess trauma or whatever youwant to call it, but I laugh
everywhere.

(01:34:23):
It's it's not a good thingsometimes because funerals, it
doesn't matter what it's at.

SPEAKER_03 (01:34:27):
It's mad at me because I'll laugh in the middle
of a conflict, a whole decision,and she's like, You laugh at the
wrong times.
I'm like, baby, it's better thanme getting mad or blowing up.
I said, if I don't laugh, I'llget angry and I don't want to
get angry right now.
She's like, Well, you're makingme angry.

SPEAKER_01 (01:34:41):
Yes, we laughed her.
We was at home one night, true,true fact.
At home one night, okay.
And we had a bad story this andthe other, and there was an
actual tornado over her home,okay?
The electricity goes off, thefrogs, crickets, everything
completely silent.
You feel the air suctioningthrough the house.

(01:35:02):
She's over.

SPEAKER_00 (01:35:03):
Oh my god, I'm double on tears rolling down my
face.
Quiet.

SPEAKER_01 (01:35:09):
I'm trying to listen.
Get him in dying peace.
And why is Blaine's juststanding there going, uh uh
Blaine is sitting here going,I've never been this close to
this one.
I've never been close to thislike this.
This is driving Victories.
And then I'm like, she's on herroad, your daddy's gonna kill
me.

SPEAKER_00 (01:35:24):
This is so hilarious.
Listen, be quiet.
I can't help it.
Like, God has just brought methrough too much uh darkness.
I've come from such a dark placethat I'm just gonna laugh.
If it doesn't, if I'm notlaughing, if I'm not having a
good time and and and beingjoyful, um I don't know what I

(01:35:46):
would do.
I just love to laugh.
And I paid way too much for thissmile not to.
So I'm gonna smile.
I'm gonna laugh and I'm gonnasmile.
And uh the Lord just brought mejoy, and and I'm not gonna try
to contain it because it's notin the proper box that people
think it should be in.
I'm gonna laugh.
And so my Facebook is a place oflaughter.

SPEAKER_01 (01:36:08):
Yeah.
And if you do go to Facebook,I'm just letting you know, you
just never know what you'regoing to get.
It's pretty interesting.
It's always healthy.
It is healthy, but it's prettyinteresting at times.
Matter of fact, she'll tag meand stuff like, I can't believe
you tagged me.
But anyway.

SPEAKER_00 (01:36:24):
In fact, I shared uh day before yesterday.
Um, my mama's probably lookingat my Facebook thinking I tried.
And my mama, and my mama wentunderneath there and commented,
you would be right.

SPEAKER_03 (01:36:35):
Hey, so now uh so the camera's on you, all right.
Um I want you to speak to thepeople, whether they're in
addiction, whether they gotmaybe family members that
they've tried to love and careabout, and it just seems like
nothing's nothing's going right.
Um, I don't know if you want totake turns, you want to back and
forth together, but what wouldyou say to those struggling or

(01:36:57):
those who have people aroundthem that are struggling?

SPEAKER_00 (01:37:01):
I would say there is always hope.
Um, don't give up on them.
Don't uh don't uh give in totheir to their pleas and don't
um don't enable them, but alwayslove them.
Show them love no matter what,let them know you love them.
You don't have to approve ofwhat they're doing, um, but give

(01:37:23):
them love.
And if you're stuck inaddiction, I I wish I could
share with you the picture um ofwhere I came from, like my last
picture on my intake into rehab.
Um, because the picture it itit's so important and I show it
to people all the time becausethe look in my eye showed that I
was literally hopeless.

SPEAKER_02 (01:37:44):
I bet we can show that while you're talking about
it.
I'll just put it over thescreen.

SPEAKER_00 (01:37:48):
Yeah.
I was literally hopeless.
Um, but God it doesn't matterwhat you've been through, it
doesn't matter how many timesyou've messed up, it doesn't
matter how many tribes you'vefailed, you've you you keep
getting up and you're fallingand you're falling.
Um God loves you and He caresfor you, and He has a purpose

(01:38:14):
for your life.
No matter if you can see itright now, there is something
greater for you.
And please reach out for help.
Don't don't try to do it on yourown strength.
Reach out to into a community ofpeople who will be there for
you.
There are people everywhere whohave come through addiction and

(01:38:35):
their life's journey is just tooffer that same hope to other
people.
Um yeah, there's hope.

SPEAKER_01 (01:38:42):
I want to say there's life after survival.
Once we learn that there's lifebeyond addiction, things change.
We're living proof that God canchange anything or anybody.
And there is life beyond whereyou're at.

(01:39:02):
If you are struggling, I'masking reach out to somebody to
help you through this.
If if you think that, hey, Ijust gotta continue to do these
things, I gotta continue to livethis way, there's another way.
Somebody will be there to helpyou.
I know a lot I've had a lot ofpeople, nobody cares, nobody

(01:39:22):
this.
I promise you, you reach out tosomebody, they will somebody
will help you.
And and your life can change.
For the first time in our lives,I can honestly say I'm the
happiest I've ever been in mylife.
Peace.
Because I have that peace.

(01:39:43):
She's the happiest she's everbeen in her life because we have
that peace.
We don't have to worry about thenext day, the next moment.
We just have to worry the aboutwhat we need to take care of
right now.
Beyond that, we don't have toworry about it anymore.
Because God's already got it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:40:00):
Again, thank y'all again for thank y'all again for
uh for coming and interviewing.

SPEAKER_04 (01:40:07):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (01:40:07):
Um, I know I had y'all in town.
I was like, I I I'm gonnamention it, we'll see what
happens.
And you took the bait, so I'mglad you did.
I'm glad you sat in with us.
I wasn't sure if he's going toor I'm glad you did.
Yeah, it would have been soboring without you.

SPEAKER_00 (01:40:20):
I know.
I'm the life to his party forsure.

SPEAKER_01 (01:40:24):
I would say it is a great gift.

SPEAKER_00 (01:40:28):
It's never a dull moment.

SPEAKER_01 (01:40:31):
We are not boring by no means.

SPEAKER_03 (01:40:34):
Thank y'all again for tuning in to another episode
of Faith and Failures.
If you haven't yet, go over tothe YouTube channel or you can
find us on Rumble at Faith andFailures Podcast.
Hit like, subscribe.
If you're listening online,anywhere you consume podcast,
make sure you follow, download,and any links that we mentioned
earlier will be down in thedescription.

(01:40:54):
We love y'all.
We're praying for you, and thankyou so much for hanging out with
us.

SPEAKER_04 (01:41:00):
Faith and Failures Podcast.

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From Trauma to Testimony: Addiction, Faith, and the Hard Work of Healing - EP. 17

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