The Saints in Exile: Mike Geo's Faith Journey EP. 15

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:21):
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Now let's get into the video.
Thank you all so much forjoining me again on another
episode of Faith and Failures.
Today I have with me a specialguest, mike Geo.

(00:42):
So, mike, let me ask you thisin my research, I did some chat
gbt on you and geo is not youractual like you have a different
, actual full-ass name, don'tyou?
Oh yeah, what is?
What is it?
I've read it, but I couldn'tpronounce it so the.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
So there's two ways to pronounce it.
The american way is giordano.
The italian way is giordano sotechnically because there's no g
in well, there's a g, but initalian the g's pronounce joe,
okay, so it's really like.
It's like the equivalent ofjordan giordano okay, well,
that's pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
So that leads me to my next question.
So you're italian, that's right, yeah, yeah.
So tell me about that.
Like is like, were your parentsor grandparents like immigrants
?
Like, how did you?
You said right now, you'reItalian, that's right, yeah,
yeah.
So tell me about that.
Like, were your parents orgrandparents like immigrants?
Like, how did you?
You said right now, you'reliving in New York.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yeah, so, and I did ancestry last year actually, or
I wouldn't even be able toanswer a lot of this my
great-grandmother, she, camehere from Sicily.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
And she actually didn't even renounce her italian
citizenship, so she was livinghere, but she was still an
italian citizen.
And, uh, on my, the rest of myfamily, it goes back to summits,
the early 1900s summits, thelate 1800s.
They came in and pretty mucheverybody came in either through
trenton, new jersey, or theywent to Long Island and yeah so,

(02:08):
and it's from you know, sicily,naples and very southern
Italian mostly.
Okay, that's cool.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, I'm just a white boy from the south.
Grandparents, greatgrandparents, they were all
farmers, that's it.
Grandparents,great-grandparents, they were
all farmers, that's it so.
But a lot of that heritage likethat, that's your heritage.
It seems to all not all a lotbe stemmed or live around the
new york area.
Is that, like that's the themain port of entry as far as
like, how that goes, like do youknow the history of how they

(02:37):
even, like, came here?

Speaker 2 (02:39):
I think someone came here for work, uh, but I my my
guess, uh, my wife wouldprobably know the answer, but my
guess is it's because ellisisland.
You probably had to comethrough ellis island okay and
because of that, a lot of peoplethat came in probably just
settled in new york, new jersey,you know that is your wife,

(03:01):
italian too yes, okay, she'spart.
I mean she's part, she's partgerman and stuff, but uh, she's
mostly italian as well okay,well, that's really cool.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
So I want to kind of uh open up and talk about how we
got to know each other, how weeven got connected.
So I randomly found you ontiktok, like that, that's how we
got connected.
And I just today, like I wasdoing a little bit of homework,
I'm like, okay, I want to know alittle bit about this guy.
I want to have some, you know,good questions for him to like,
uh, get some depth and let thepeople know who he is and and uh

(03:33):
.
And then I saw maybe last weekyou baptized your daughter,
right, and then like all the thehate in the comments, like
people get really, uh, there's,there's a lot of good uh church
people out there that have allthe answers in there, right, I
knew it was.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
I knew it was coming.
I mean, I knew it was coming.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah, and so that's kind of actually how we
connected.
Like I, what?
What was the post that you madethat I commented on?
And then you made another postand my comment was above and I'm
like oh, this guy actually likepays attention to who's talking
to him.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, I don't.
I mean, I made so many postsaround that time, I don't
remember which one it was.
It was probably the one aboutthe church membership thing.
That's most likely because thatone had so many comments,
because I replied to everycomment, but on that one I had
to give up.
It was, it was impossible,Impossible.
So I kind to every comment, buton that one I had to give up.

(04:29):
It was, it was impossibleimpossible.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
So I kind of yeah, it was probably that one about
church membership.
Yeah, so, and and I, I was likedude, okay, well, this guy
actually like responds, causeI've I've reached out to people
before, cause my favorite thing,like I teach the Bible on the
channel, but my favorite thingis interviews, like I love the
back and forth, the talking, getto know people's backgrounds,
like you know back and forth.
And like I hate just sittingthere talking to a camera.
Even though I can do it, Idon't like it.

(04:52):
I prefer to get to knowsomebody.
So, speaking of get to know,like when you sent me a short
little bio I asked about, yousaid about 20 years of making
music.
Is that right?
So so how old are you?
I am 36.
You're 36.
So about 16 years of makingmusic.
Now, what was the, the kind oflaunching pad or the inspiration

(05:14):
to even make you want to getinto music or try like, are you
one of those guys that can playkind of almost every instrument?

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah, yeah, I play, I play a variety, yeah, I play a
lot Not a lot, but I play morethan probably people are used to
in 2025.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
Right.
So what was that originalinspiration that even got you
into music or going in thatdirection?

Speaker 2 (05:33):
Honestly, when I was a kid, my parents played Beatles
songs, specifically PaulMcCartney songs, every day and I
was obsessed with it and Iwould play the songs, songs, and
I would sit there with aplastic guitar and I would sing
them.
For some reason it just made me, it just made me feel good,
like I felt like, yeah, I gotlike this big wave of energy and

(05:56):
it just felt good to do it.
Um, I have no idea why, and itjust carried on and then, like
years later, I said I couldprobably look, I could try and
learn guitar for real, like whynot?
Yeah, and that's how it started, mainly from beatles when I was
a kid.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
So what was your um like, how did that journey look
like?
So you, you got the little fakeguitar, so did you take guitar
lessons did Did you just startteaching yourself?
Like, how did that, how didthat work?

Speaker 2 (06:27):
Uh, I got a guitar.
I think my father bought me aguitar classical guitar and I
remember like looking up Beatlesstuff and I saw it as a song
called Eleanor Rigby and I sawthat it had like three chords E,
minor, a minor, c and I'm like,okay, three chords, let me
learn the chords to that song.
So I learned E minor and then Ilearned, and when I remember

(06:50):
when I strummed the E minor, Iwas like it kind of doesn't
sound like it, of course,because it's so many strings and
stuff, I mean it's just, but Ibut that was like the first
memory I have of learning a songand so basically, whenever I
wanted to learn a song, Ilearned the chords.
And I think that's why Ilearned is because I had high

(07:13):
motivation to play the songs,rather than I did guitar lessons
for a short period around thenand I just I don't know, I
probably have bad ADD, couldn'tfocus, didn't care about the,
the scales or reading, but if Ihad a high motivation it was
much easier.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
Yeah, so you start there now I don't know how, how,
how far or deep into the 20years, when you kind of start,
you find your love, you, youkind of are growing as a
musician, growing as an artist.
Like this whole time you couldjust naturally sing or what like
.
How did that?

Speaker 2 (07:45):
no, I wouldn't.
No, I wouldn't say that at all.
No, I mean, there are peoplethat would probably, you know,
like my family, thought I couldback then.
But I can go back and listenand be like, oh man, if I think,
this is how, if I can go backnow here and be like wow, that's
what I sounded like yeah I'mafraid of what I'm gonna think
in 10 years about how I soundnow.
I mean, really it was.

(08:06):
Yeah, I mean I didn't put myNew York accent was so
overpowering in my singing and Iwas pitchy and inconsistent.
But you know it's over time.
You just do it, do and do it,and do it and do it and you get
better.
So I would say that, uh, mynatural ability was I had an

(08:27):
ability to have the flexibilityto do the notes right but, my
problem was pronunciation andpitch.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, when I started yeah, the uh, the youtube
channel.
Y'all have the um, which we'll.
We'll talk about the saints inexile today.
You just earned anothersubscriber and I sent it to one
of my friends.
Matter of fact, uh, the friendI'm talking about, he is the MD
of the music director at mychurch on the worship team, and

(08:55):
I sent him that I said, hey, I'mgoing to interview this guy
today Cause he's like he's aband nerd.
He like gets all excited aboutyou know, uh, music, the guy he
uh nerds out.
And so I sent him one of yoursongs and I said I'm
interviewing this guy.
He said, hey, tell him we needa guitar player at church.
And so I was listening to someof your songs on your channel
and you know that, uh, that bandthey're called amber lynn.

(09:20):
You ever heard of them?

Speaker 2 (09:22):
oh man, I think I that sounds so familiar.
I couldn't tell you what theysound like, but I think you ever
heard of them.
Oh man, I think I that soundsso familiar.
I couldn't tell you what theysound like, but I think I've
heard of them before.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
Well, one of your songs, your, your voice, it
sounded like that guy and I'mlike, okay, this guy's like,
cause I I had went through someof your TikTok, but the uh.
Hold on, what's the uh?
Did you know?
There's something on YouTubethat is your profile or your
name, but it says somethingdifferent.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
My name or the Saints in Exile.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
The Saints in Exile and I click on my dead end and
it goes to saintsinexile-topic.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
Oh yeah, when you distribute music, uh they get.
They put it on a, a topic, uhlike a separate thing from your
artist YouTube profile, althoughthey sync it in a playlist on
your profile.
I wish it wasn't like that,because they don't even let you,
they don't even allow people tocomment, I don't think.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
Cause I was confused, cause that's my dead end,
becoming the villain, um, andthen, like bad vibes, I was
going through and listening toit and but when I clicked,
because it's on, it's on theplaylist.
Underneath your profile sayshome.
It says music videos.
I click on my dead end, butthen it takes me to saints and

(10:40):
exile topic.
I just thought that was reallyweird yeah, that's yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
That's what I mean.
As far as anything I've everexperienced, it's always like
that.
They have the topic channel andI hate it.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
I wish it was just in , you know, sync together yeah,
you, you would think it would be, that would make sense.
But yeah, I don't know.
I just saw that I'm like didsomebody try to like rip off
your, your band, and they'relike posting your stuff
pretending to be you?
I didn't know they did it.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
No, that's, that's YouTube.
That's a YouTube thing.
Okay, of course, youtube Allright.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
So let's see now deep into your, or into your 20
years of music.
When did you decide?
How long have you been doing?
Saints in Exile.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Oh, that's very new.
Oh, is it really?
Yeah, I mean, it took a numberof years to get it actually
going Because, honestly, weweren't sure.
Honestly, we started in 2020,and then that was when I called
2020 the year I got smacked inthe face by Jesus.
I know that sounds aggressive,but it was like and that kind of

(11:46):
actually stopped that for a bit, and it wasn't until late last
year that we started, you know,continuing where we left off
Same guys Like same band membersand everything.
Same guys, yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Now, are these people you grew up with, or how did
you meet them?

Speaker 2 (12:04):
Well, the rapper I'd known probably since around 2007
, 2008.
I don't even remember how I methim.
Aside from that, it was throughmusic locally in Staten Island.
And then the drummer Idefinitely met in 2006, 2007 in
Staten Island locally.
He was always the best drummerin the scene and you know, he's

(12:28):
just so nice, so we always gotalong really well.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
So there's just the three of y'all then.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
Just the three of us.
Really so the drummer does thatmean you play and do everything
else?
Yeah, the drummer does thedrums and I do all the rest of
the music.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
Wow, that does not sound like it's just a rapper, a
drummer and a guy that doeseverything else.
That's awesome.
Good, yeah, it sounds awesome.
Now does the drummer do any is?
All he does is drum.
He didn't sing or anything likethat.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
No, he just drums actually.
I mean on becoming the villaintechnically, in the background
of the bridge he's singing likewe're doing like gang vocals and
it's, but it's mixed very inthe background, yeah, so
technically he does sing then, Iguess, on there.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
But he's mainly the drummer.
Okay, that that's pretty cooland emotional support and yeah,
that's, that's very important.
That's very important.
So what's the?
Uh?
So what, what does that looklike?
Like, what's the music scene innew york like, is it?
I know you said it's pretty new, but what made y'all start to
try to form something, to try totry to do that?

Speaker 2 (13:29):
um, you know the scene in new york I mean staten
island.
I really don't know what'sgoing on.
New york it's.
It ranges everything from, um,like a lot of indie bands that
maybe aren't great to a lot ofbands that are like fantastic,
that are even signed, playing inlittle clubs and stuff.
But we, you know, we just thethree of us get along.

(13:49):
And actually the drummer he wasin the same church as me.
We were both on the worshipteam, so those years even got us
really good is playing off ofeach other.
But the reason why we started,I really really it was the
rapper.
He was in another band instaten island for many years and

(14:12):
they kind of they broke up andthey started a band.
The whole band started a bandwithout him, basically, yeah,
and so he's wanted to to domusic for a while and he kind of
pushed it to happen.
And I don't mean that in a badway, but he pushed it to happen
and it happened.
So really it's his fault.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, everybody needs a motivator to push us to that
next level.
So now you've mentioned alittle bit, so would you
consider y'all a Christian band?

Speaker 2 (14:42):
So we're all Christian, right, we're all
Christian.
And even the lyrics, like mydad, actually my dead end.
In the second verse it's aChristian rapper named Cut Right
and those lyrics are very andactually that song was written
before.
I would consider myselfChristian, christian, but I

(15:03):
changed the lyrics to instead ofsaying, like this is my dead
end, I'm like, is this my deadend?
I try to make it sound morelike a prayer.
So I consider us a Christianband, um, but we're not um the
type of band that's, we're notso in your face about it, which
with my solo stuff I am, that'slike all 100 christian, but the

(15:26):
band is less in your face andmore um.
And you know, and at firstthat's one of the reasons why I
wasn't um totally sold on theband, because I'm like I feel
called to do christian music andand it didn't, although it has
christian themes and it's evengot Christian lyrics in it, it's

(15:47):
not the way, it's not what youwould call worship or CCM at all
.
But you know, over time Istarted saying to myself you
know there are people that itcould reach that it may not
otherwise with the other music.
So you know, I overthink thingsa lot too, so it's very hard to

(16:07):
say, but as far as I considerus a christian band as far as
the lyrics and stuff who, who'sthe writer?

Speaker 1 (16:13):
do all of you help like how does that work out?
As far as, like, the setting oflike we're working on another
song, or is it?
You bring the song to the bandand they call you collaborate,
or they're just like all right,cool, let's do it typically I
write the.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
I don't write the raps, um, or the lyrics in the
raps.
That's all.
The rap of the raps are writtenby the rapper and the lyrics in
the raps written by the rapper,um, and the rest of it is
pretty much me bringing it in.
The rapper helps me with somelyrics in, uh, you know the
verses and chorus, slash hooks,uh, but a lot of it's me

(16:48):
bringing it because I write alot.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
I write constantly, so yeah, as far as writing goes,
like you said, you're notovertly, like you're not quoting
the Bible or anything like that, but you are from a, from a um,
I guess from a Christianfoundation of how you write.
Are you on purpose Uh, you maynot know the answer, you may

(17:11):
never thought about it Are youon purpose not trying to include
so much Jesus stuff like you doyour personal, your stuff?
Or is it just kind of come outthat way to where it's like okay
, this is our, this is ourmission to um mission to help
people, being Christians, butnot preaching to them?
Like, what's your thoughtprocess when you're trying to

(17:32):
write something for the band Notyour personal stuff, but for
the band?

Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yeah, I would say that now it is intentional.
I would say in the beginning Iwas reluctant to really get
started with the project forthat reason and honestly, it's
between praying and thinking andtalking to the other band
members.
Plus I actually have aChristian therapist and he kind

(18:00):
of gave me some really greatadvice on it too and a lot of
stuff.
It kind of I said, all right,I'm not doing anything wrong
here by doing this and it couldactually be helpful.
And actually you know, we yeah,we don't want to turn people
off that may not listen to it tobegin with if it's Christian.

(18:21):
So we're like we think it wouldbe, we think it's cool if
someone listens to it and thenrealizes after they like real,
after they like it, they're likeoh, they're christian yeah um,
rather than going in kind ofsaying yeah, maybe, uh, I'm not
gonna like this and I'm gonnalisten, um, which some people
may say that's a good thing, butit's probably I even feel like

(18:44):
it may be hurtful, because wewould probably, you know,
christian audiences want to hearChristian, like strong
Christian themes, um, so we'rekind of like we kind of skate in
the middle, which, you know,could be good, could be bad, I
have no idea.
You know, I don't know what I'mdoing, you know.

Speaker 1 (19:05):
Yeah, I mean sometimes the the I mean,
obviously the journey in theprocess is half, half the battle
right there, Like cause younever, I know you start off a
certain way, but I mean, ifyou're growing constantly and
you're the way you write and theway you deliver and the way you
, you know, uh, collaborate witheach other, Like you never know
where it's going to go, and itmay be that like it's one of

(19:26):
those middle of the road thingsthat somebody who had never
listened to Christian musiclistens to yours and and it
touches them in a way, and thenlike, wait a minute, these guys
are Christian, and it could belike that.
And some people they, you know,they listen to Christian music,
they want to hear a Christiansong, Christian lyrics, I want,
I want the word of God andthat's all you know.

(19:47):
That kind of.
But I mean there is a greatpeople always do black and white
, but there is a massive grayarea where I think sometimes
people get lost and they thinkit's only one way or the other,
when it can be both.
Like that's that's a very uniquegenre and way of looking at it,
that like somebody who maynever listen to Christian music

(20:08):
and they realize, wait a minute,these guys are Christian and
what they just wrote spoke to me.
I want to.
I want to dig in even more andfind what this stuff is about,
Cause they didn't preach at me.
Like I tell my people you know,I think you know, I'm a pastor
of a church I tell my people allthe time you're never going to
argue somebody in heaven youwon't.
They will, they will doubledown, they will dig their feet

(20:28):
in and you will not be able toargue, but you can love them in
heaven.
So I think that's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
Now, we totally agree with that.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
We test a little bit, or you mentioned it a little
bit Now.
Your, your faith journeyobviously has been pretty public
.
You've been putting it outthere on social media as far as
like your struggles and stuff.
So let's start kind of from thebeginning Personally, in your
household, how were you raisedLike?
What was the atmosphere, whatwas the culture of your house as

(20:56):
far as Christian not Christian,religious not religious, what
did that look like when you weregrowing up?

Speaker 2 (21:01):
You know, I wouldn't really label it as a religious
household at all, it was morejust, you know, culture, I guess
, tradition, culture.
So I went to Catholic schooland I, you know, we would
sometimes go to Catholic churchand that was.
But you know, that was reallyit.
The main thing I remember, themost Christian thing I remember

(21:23):
as a kid, is one time my fathersaid, told me I should pray at
night.
And he said, you know, one timehe said oh, he says oh, I
prayed and when I woke up I feltbetter.
He said something like thatonce and it always stuck with me
, you know, and I was like I wasprobably my parents were
divorced when I was like inthird grade, so it had to be

(21:43):
before that that he said itbecause he was still there.
So and then, yeah, I wouldn'treally call it a now, not to say
that.
You know, I have a crazy familyor anything.
It's like you know we're.
It's Italian, new York.
It's a family of a lot of a lotof cursing and yelling, you
know, like if you could justimagine the stereotypical thing.

(22:05):
That's what it was.
And, um, you know, and I don'teven mean cursing at each other,
just like you know, as you'retalking like, every word is just
like you know it was, that'sjust how, but you know.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
But, um, yeah, hope I answered that question yeah, so
there wasn't like a churchgoing, it was more the
traditional like I guess itwasn't even really church going,
it was kind of here and thereon the main holidays type deal.
And yeah, you see, I was theopposite, my, my parents, like I
was, of course my dad was thepastor, so we were in church

(22:36):
every single time the doors wereopen, and even when they
weren't, we had a key, so wewere there, like it was very uh,
it was religious, but differentreligious, like it wasn't a
Catholic religious.
So now you said you were raisedwith the background of Catholic
, so what would you labelyourself as now?

Speaker 2 (22:54):
So, and it was wasn't until the 2020 time where I
started just really getting intoso much stuff, especially like
I love apologetics, just reallygetting into so much stuff,
especially like I loveapologetics.
Um, you know, and I would labelmyself on the Protestant side
now and I would probably, youknow, there's people that
probably in my life that theyknow that Um, but there's just

(23:17):
some stuff that I like I'm open.
Okay, so I'm open to say that Icould be wrong and being
Catholic could be the way, but Idon't feel that God is sitting
there and like if I Protestantbut I should have been Catholic,
he's like well, that's it,you're done or vice versa.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
You know.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
I'm like and and it all, like it's honestly a little
overwhelming, in a way, to thepoint where I don't know I just
it makes me not even want to saylike, label myself as anything,
but that's where I'm at rightnow.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
So how and and this seems to be like a guy in my
church he is.
He he was raised Catholic, like, like religious Catholic, like
the, the mass, the, the prayers,the penance, like all, all his
family was Catholic, like thatwas how he was raised, he was
deep in it, and so I've talkedto him several times, being like

(24:15):
on the other side of now he'sat more of a charismatic church
and, uh, protestant.
It's like, um, the evangelicalside, and he's like, dude, I
thought all of you were a bunchof weirdos, he said, until I
actually like became a part ofthe community and realized that,
like this is by faith, throughgrace, what the word says, and
so he's like all the, all thesethings that that my eyes were

(24:38):
closed to, I began to look andrealize that this is just
scripture and realize that thisis just scripture, like how can
we close our eyes to scripturebecause of a certain religion
that tells us to, like a certainchurch tells us to?
And so he's walked through thatjourney.
So what was it that made youbegin?
Was it a set of apologetics?
Was it a deeper study orunderstanding, like what began

(25:01):
that transitional move for you,spiritually and mentally?
Because it's like it's a big ifyou're raised a certain way.
It is a massive mind shift andit is so hard to change Like
I've.
I've went through that myself,like I was raised a certain way
and for me to be my ownChristian and follow Christ
myself, I had to put aside andsay, like you said a minute ago,

(25:25):
this could be wrong, and havethat question on everything and
let it and let God form me intowhat he wants me to be and let
scripture lead me into whatscripture wants me to do,
instead of like man-madereligion and like let's follow,
don't ask any questions, just dowhat you're told because that's
the way it's been done for youknow forever.
So what was it to begin to makeyou even start to look outside

(25:47):
of the Catholic faith?

Speaker 2 (25:49):
Well, it wasn't that.
I was even looking outside.
It was, you know, during COVIDI had some, like I call them,
emotional slash spiritualexperiences and I was reading
through the whole Bible andthere were things that I mean
and of course, obviously thebiggest one is grace through

(26:11):
faith and it just felt like, youknow, the Catholic church you
have to like, first of all, ifyou miss a Sunday intentionally,
it's a mortal sin.
A mortal sin and I'm like, wowand it's just.
But in order to be freed fromthat, you couldn't even pray on

(26:32):
your own, you had to go.
It had to be a confession inperson, which I have no problem
with confessing to somebody, butit just feels like, you know,
like the sacraments, you have todo this, you have to do that,
and it almost feels like theshift goes away from jesus to

(26:56):
ritual rituals, yeah, which kindof kind of feels like the way
the pharisees sort of were,where it's.
You know, I mean, it'sobviously it's not that extreme,
they're not, um, they don'twant to stone you if you heal
somebody, you know, if you pickgreen on sunday or something,
but um, yeah, there were, therewere things like that and you

(27:17):
know, I mean, even look at thoselittle things like.
I mean it's.
It says that Jesus had a brother.
It says in the Bible that youknow Mary consummated the
marriage.
Could the translation when yougo to Greek?
I never looked into it thatmuch Cause I it's to me that's
not so important.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
And rather it's just important that it's you know.
Grace through faith is thething, that's the main thing.
Uh, so that's you know whereI'm at.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
So now you said that you're obviously your parents
Catholic, you're.
Are they still Catholic?
Are they they still practicethe faith?
Has that caused?
Well, yeah, I mean as much asprobably as they did when you
were a kid.
Has that caused complicationsin in, I mean as much as
probably as they did when youwere a kid.
Has that caused complicationsin your relationship with?

Speaker 2 (28:08):
them.
No, they don't feel like you'rebetraying the family or the
heritage or the you know if theyI mean they're betraying it by
not going to church on Sundayanyway, I guess that's true, but
I mean really not going toconfession, but you know it's
real.
You know I feel like, ifanything, maybe it's like it's

(28:28):
possible that like someone maybewas embarrassed that you know I
was making like I put a post up, I got.
You know I got baptized againin 2021 and I put the post up.
So you know, it's possible thatyou know.
A lot of people saw that in myfamily.
It's possible my father orsomeone was embarrassed by that.
I have no idea.
I mean I really don't care.
Um, I mean I do care but at thesame time I don't yeah uh, now

(28:49):
what about your wife?

Speaker 1 (28:50):
was she raised the same that you were, and is she
going through the sametransition, or how?
What does her walk look like?
Are y'all unified in the house?

Speaker 2 (28:57):
as far as, like the way you're, you're going now
yeah, well, she, she wasn'tbrought up catholic okay, she
was not, she was, uh.
Now she was baptized as a babycatholic in the hospital.
Oh, she was very sick, so theydid baptize her, but she had a
lot of issues, like you know.
She didn't have a father,really, and her mother has a lot

(29:19):
of problems with addiction.
So she lives with her greataunt and her, her father's I
mean her brother's father theyhave a different father, but she
was close with him.
He was Seventh-day Adventist.
She wasn't brought up with that,and then the mother was going

(29:39):
to a Baptist church, so she hada little more experience of
being in a Baptist church for abrief period than anything, um,
but you know, she has a verystrong natural um, I don't know,
I guess a core relationshipwith God, just because of the
stuff she's been through and howshe's had to come through it,

(30:00):
and she always says it's Godthat did it.
So she has a strong naturalrelationship with God.
That, you know, I didn't havegrowing up but unfortunately she
developed that through a lot oftrials yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
That's good.
I'm glad to hear that, becauseif the house is divided, life
can be very, very terrible.
So now, you touched on it, youdidn't, you didn't touch on it,
we.
I made a comment because peopleon twitter or not twitter, uh t
well, the internet can be, sothey have all the answers.
So, for those who may see thisand they know who you are and

(30:42):
they've seen your stuff onTikTok now is your time to
explain the baptism of your baby.
People are so dumb.
I can't, I can't I mean it's I.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
I mean, and I told him I say, I said, hey, it's,
it's right, it's a catholicthing, but it's like the family
tradition thing and it's like,all right, my family wants to be
that.
What is the thing?
I'm going to baptize a catholicor we're going to do a, what is
it called?
I forgot what you call itDedication.
Yeah, maybe dedication and sowe're just doing Catholic.

(31:19):
It'll make my family happy andokay, and that's what we did.
It was more tradition thananything.
People are like you shouldn'tbe baptized.
I'm like, and because I did,what's going to happen Nothing.
What's going to happen.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
Nothing.
What's going?

Speaker 2 (31:33):
to happen Nothing.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
Like she's going to have to make that choice when
she gets of age.
Anyways, like that's, likethat's how people like split
hairs with, like the Christmasthing, like should you have a
tree or the Easter bunny?
Like with the eggs and stuff,and I'm like, okay, come on,
like it.
It's like what is the meaning?
Or should you get tattoos?
Like what's the meaning behindwhat you're doing?

(31:54):
Like what is your?
The bible from cover to cover,like if david could kill a man
because he slept with his wifeand then have that baby?
And the bible still calls davidthe man after god's own heart.
The heart matters a lot morethan we give it credit for
sometimes, unless you have aChristmas tree, yeah, or you

(32:17):
baptize your baby.
It's out the window.
That's just too far.
That is unforgivable.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
Not even David had a Christmas tree, okay.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
Right, right.
Yeah, that's true.
That's true.
So is your daughter that youjust baptized.
Is that your first child?
Yes yeah, how's that?
I mean I love her.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
It was very difficult in the beginning.
She was.
She was born with club feet, nowhat is club feet.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
What does that mean?

Speaker 2 (32:50):
um.
So basically, instead of thefeet being like this yeah they
were turned in and like likethat.
Oh so we had to have casts onher for like eight weeks and
every time they put a new caston you to get a new cast every
week.
Um, for the first four weeks itwas new cast and it was like,
uh, three weeks of the same cast, so seven weeks, and she, every

(33:13):
time it was a new cast.
She didn't sleep for like twodays and she'd cry and cry and
cry and cry and cry.
So it was very difficult andshe actually didn't start
sleeping through the night.
She'll she'll be six monthsnext week.
She didn't start sleepingthrough the night until 4th of
July.
That was the first night sheslept through the night.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
Wow, and all the cast stuff done, everything's good
now.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
Yeah, so now she wears boots and bars.
She wears those for 12 hours aday until she's five.
Wow, so yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Wow, well, that's I mean.
I guess you call that baptizedby fire.
So now anything you have afterthis how?
I mean I guess you call thatbaptized by fire, so now
anything you have after this howmany kids you have?

Speaker 2 (33:54):
it's fine, you've been through it all.
Yeah, who knows if we'll beable to have another one at this
point, but we'll see.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
You're like nope, that's it.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
That's it.
Between the stress and thefinancial situation, it's not
easy to have a kid.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
No, it's not, it's not, I have my.
I did have a kid.
No, it's not, it's not, I havemy.
I'd like another one, though II got a.
I've been married before and soI have a teenager.
He's about to be 17 in novemberand he lives with us full time,
and so my, my wife.
Now we just had our two uh,october be two years, so we got
my first girl.
So it's a.

(34:28):
It's a different experience.
Like I know, you said sixmonths old, as I said my she's
20, what?
21 months, something like that.
And it is a different thing fromhaving a son to having a girl.
Like when she cries, likeeverything inside of me, like
wants to rush to her and seewhat is wrong, and it's like my

(34:51):
son.
My son was like I walk it off,you'll be okay, you're supposed
to be a man, but like when alittle girl cries, I just I
can't explain the difference,but uh, it's uh.
Being a being a girl dad is adifferent beast.
So now um has, since this, umbeing a dad, being an even more

(35:11):
so a girl dad, um has thoseemotions.
Have they come out, or has adeeper emotional state come out
of you in songwriting?
You know what I mean?
Like you've experiencedsomething that that has touched
a depth of you inside thatyou've never felt before.
Has it?
Can you tell if it's changedanything, or were you already

(35:32):
kind of tapped into that?

Speaker 2 (35:33):
Yeah, I mean, I already feel pretty.
I feel like I feel too muchsometimes, yeah, so, but I mean
I for sure haven't.
I've never felt anything asstrong as I do for her.
And the thing is, with thesongwriting I would say that it

(35:56):
hasn't translated so much tothat just yet.
Yeah, um, but you know the wayI with songwriting.
Sometimes it's when you aregoing through things, it's kind
of it's happening inside, yeah,and it eventually seeps its way
out yeah but I'm still going Ithink I'm still in it hasn't
seeped out full yet into that,yeah, Into that sense.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
I mean I wrote a song for her but have you put it out
yet, or was that just likebetween?

Speaker 2 (36:21):
No, it's like a children's, it's like a.
It's actually a Christianchildren's song, like a very
Christian children's song.
I haven't, I have to put it out, but I haven't yet.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
Okay, I have to put it out, but I haven't yet.
Okay.
So now, when you put songs out,or have you ever started
writing a song?
Say, for instance, 2020 was abig worldwide.
A lot of things going on, a lotof loss, a lot of chaos, the

(36:54):
things you see online.
Like being a musician today,being an artist today, it's a
lot different than it used to beLike.
Now there's so many things thatyou have to put out online or
that you can ingest from online.
Does the culture or instancesor seasons or whatever from that
you see online, does thatinfluence your music writing as
well?
Like you, you see something.
You're like man I I want towrite a song that that touches

(37:17):
specifically this pain or thisstruggle oh, yeah, I mean,
there's stuff like that thathappens all the time.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
Um, some, yeah, sometimes it's like this, like
that, which is like I guessconcept is this feeling.
That which is like I guessconcept is this feeling that
people feel I want to write,because, you know, I'm feeling
that too.
I want to write something thatsheds light on it in a maybe a
different way.
Um, or sometimes, honestly,sometimes you hear other music

(37:44):
and you're like, whoa, I'm likereally inspired to write a song
because I just listened to theseother songs and so it is as far
.
You know, there's all types ofthings, there's a lot of
different things that caninspire you to write.
It just depends on what it isthat's setting you off.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
Now do you easily because I haven't wrote in a
long time, but I'm also theworship leader at my church and
before I was the worship leaderI would write songs that weren't
.
They weren't bad songs, thatcould be about girls or whatever
, but it was like kind of a butI was.
I could easily put my brain inthe mode of that emotion, even

(38:24):
though I wasn't experiencing it,when you put out so what's,
what's your favorite platformthat you like to put?
I found you on Tik TOK but like, do you have a favorite avenue
that you like putting stuff outon?

Speaker 2 (38:34):
You know I like TikTok because I mean I was on
TikTok when it was calledMusically at first in 2016.
And I was on it from there andan old band of mine.
We did decent on there in thebeginning.
I like TikTok just because youget feedback quick.
Yeah, even when you don't wantI mean, you know, it depends,

(38:57):
and I and I've I've noticed thatit's the controversy.
People like yeah, I noticed thatyeah um, which is, uh, you know
I'm not gonna, you know I'm notgonna put stuff up to be
controversial for the sake of it.
Yeah, but now I know if I'mgoing through something I'm like
, all right, I'll put it upbecause people may respond to it

(39:18):
or resonate.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Or judge it, they'll solve your problems or they'll
judge it.
Yeah, they'll solve yourproblems pretty quick, won't
they?

Speaker 2 (39:25):
You know what?
Sometimes the people they argueamongst themselves in the
comments.
I'm like good.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
Let them battle it out.
I'll come check later.
I went on one of my videos uh,because I put these, the shorts
from the, the interviews of thebible studies on tiktok, and I
looked and one person commentedand I didn't even have to
respond because, like all of asudden, boom, boom, boom, boom,
like back and forth, back andforth, and I'm like I can't even
up, I'm not looking at this.
It's like, dude, it's just toomuch.
It's too much.
So what is something we talk alittle bit about, social media,

(39:58):
what's something encouragingthat you have found?
You said you kind of likeTikTok the most.
What's?
What's some encouraging?
Um, the atmosphere of TikTok,or something that you you really
enjoy from it when you postsomething or something that you,
you really enjoy from it.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
When you post something, um, I, you know there
are, I will say this sometimesI will post something as a joke
and people will think it's like,dead serious, yeah, um, or it
could even be a true thing, butI'm not posting it really to
like cause the response again.
But people, some, there's a lotof people that are pretty
caring on there.
They're like oh, you know, theyoffer you some strong advice
because they think you're goingthrough okay.

(40:37):
So, for instance, I put up apost just because I thought it
would be funny.
I have a song, I had, I have aa song.
Prayer was a request.
So I, at one point I was doingsomething where people had a
prayer request and wanted towritten to a song they can use
for prayer.
I was writing it.
I saw that someone's yeah, yes,someone sent me one.
This is last year.

(40:58):
Someone sent me one for likelust and it was like for porn
addiction and all this stuff.
So I wrote it and I put it outand I made a post because there
was a.
I didn't even see thecommercial, but I heard there
was a super bowl commercial withum, there's this, but I heard
there was a Superbowl commercialwith um, there's this actress,
sydney Sweeney, have you everheard of her?
And she's, she's, she's anactress that is, she's very

(41:23):
pretty.
Yeah, so she.
There was Superbowl commercialand people were complaining like
, oh, you know, they used, uh, Idon't remember what they were
selling.
Oh, it was mayonnaise, likemayonnaise.
Like, oh, they're usingmayonnaise, using sex, to sell
mayonnaise.
So I made a post with the songand I said, um, when you see the
super bowl commercial and nowyou don't know if I said like

(41:44):
now you don't know if you shouldeat mayonnaise anymore and you
plan on making a tuna sandwich.
And it was a joke.
But people, like they reallythought that I was considering
never eating mayo again.
But I wasn't, I was just joking, you know.
But but they were very niceabout it.
They were like you know, theywere very kind about it.
So the atmosphere is, peopleare there are a lot of people

(42:05):
there who are very caring,although sometimes they're not
really discerning like, fullyyour intent or it could just it
could be my fault, maybe I'm notbeing completely obvious about
it or something, I don't know,but I find it funny.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
I mean people like you don't have to try hard in
this sphere of the internet tomake people just lose their
minds.
Like it's just, it's so easy,it's just so easy.
And it's like I'm not evenbeing for real, it's a joke.
And they're like oh no, oh no,he's going to stop eating
mayonnaise.

(42:39):
And I'm like, even if he does,who cares?
Like why?

Speaker 2 (42:42):
are you?

Speaker 1 (42:42):
so concerned about it .
It's just, it's ridiculous.
So now you said was it in 2020that y'all started the band,
right?

Speaker 2 (42:53):
That's when we started.
Yeah, we didn't even have aname.
We made a couple songs, westarted a couple songs.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
Now, what was the inspiration behind the name of
the band?

Speaker 2 (43:04):
Well, it took us a long time to come up with a name
, but the name is basicallySaints in Exile.
It's about how God's people are.
It's like it's like you havethe Garden of Eden and we're all
out and it's like we're all inexile, type of thing.
So pretty much that's.
I mean, it's simple, but that'spretty much what the
inspiration.
As far as the meaning of thename, it also sounds cool, yeah,

(43:28):
so that helps.
But I really liked you know, wehad a couple names we were
throwing out there and I likedthe meaning of it.
Um, the drummer, I will tellyou he didn't, he was like.
He was like I don't, I don'twant to use his name because
it's like we're callingourselves saints.
They're like no, no, no, no,we're not, you're taking it too
seriously.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
Yeah, like chill out yeah, it's funny.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
It was a funny story.
He'll.
He'll like that.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
I mentioned that You're all going to have to do
like the Catholic or whateverthing, where you're like in the
dress and like the the get upand you're on the front of the
cover Like that's.
Have y'all came out with an EPyet?
Yeah, do the halo no it.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
It's really helpful nowadays to just do singles, but
you could do something called awaterfall release, where it's
basically like you have an ep oran album and every release, so
you release one song and thenyou release another song and
they both go into the same thingand over time they be it's an
album, it becomes an album.
It's all on one thing that'spretty cool and you don't have
to.
you don't have to pre-choose thesongs.

(44:33):
If you decide you want to do asong you wrote yesterday and add
it on there, you can.
So we're doing a waterfallrelease.
So it will eventually be a fullalbum or an EP, whatever it
winds up being.
But as of now they're just likesingles coming out every six
weeks.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
Okay, so singles coming out every six weeks, so
okay.
So, um, on talking aboutreleasing, you only have are you
making videos?
I guess you're not.
These are just like uh, coverart on youtube.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
So on the on the topics yeah, on on our channel
we do we shorts like littleshorts videos.
Okay, there they are.
Yeah, rather than do a wholemusic.
If a song did really well, we'dmake a music video, but it
doesn't make sense to unlessthere's a demand for it.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
Well, I didn't know if you were doing the house just
like the little clip, or notthe clip art but the cover art,
where it's just a thing withplaying.
Now, this one is a what do youcall it?
A lyric video.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Yeah, this is a lyric video there and uh, and if you
go to shorts they're like it'sactually it is videos that we've
made of us, some of them, butyou know, they're not very fancy
, just very simple.
And yeah, because when you, atthe end of the day, you put it
up, you don't know what's goingto work.
Sometimes you could filmsomething in five minutes and it
can get a million views, andyou could film something for 40

(45:57):
days and high production and itgets like 10 views.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
Yeah, like the, the great, the awesome thing and the
crazy thing at the same time islike these little phones are
putting out with now, like theycan, they can record some pretty
good stuff and actually goodquality.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
Yeah, there's a new feature on the new iPhone where
you could use the voice memoslike a voice memos app to record
and it isolates it and it makesit sound.
I mean I wouldn't go out of myway to use it to record if I
have a microphone, but it couldwork.
It could work.
I think it was Michael Buble,but if you it could work, it

(46:33):
could.
It could work in my.
I think it was Michael Bley.
He released a song using that.
It sounded, sounded prettydecent.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
Really.
Yeah, I guess he has thebandwidth to just like eh, we'll
try and see if it doesn't work,it doesn't work.
Well, it was it was sponsoredby Apple, so I'm sure he did get
money for it then.
Okay.
He got money for it for sure,he probably got a lot of money
for that yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
It was a cross thing.
He got cross promotion, he gotmoney for it and Apple got
Michael Buble putting it outthere and showing people.
Hey, you can use this newfeature.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
I know I just mentioned your YouTube channel,
but are you or your, does yourband, the uh the exile, have a
Tik TOK, or are you just puttingit out on your personal stuff,
or no, we have a Tik TOK.
Okay, cause I have not.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
I think it's not saints in exile saints in exile
band.

Speaker 1 (47:26):
Okay, saints and exile band, saints Catholic, all
right.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
Yeah, so yeah, that's a new we.
We just created that a couplemonths ago, okay, cool so it's
got the um the little shorter.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
I guess the verticals like y'all have on your youtube
shorts yeah, it's, and I'mposting the same thing to both.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
so whatever is being posted to the tick tock, I'm
putting right up on the YouTube.
Okay, because they bothfunction very similar.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
Yeah, they really do.
So what's?
You said, okay, we got Saintsin Exile and you said you have
your own other stuff too.
What do you call that?
Is it just the one that you andI have been talking back on, or
do you have a name, or is?

Speaker 2 (48:13):
it just your name, it's just Mike Geo.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
Okay, mike, geo, and so, um, after we get off, uh,
you can, if you will, text methe links to all this stuff so I
can make sure to post it whenthe episode comes out.
So now for for you and for theband, like, are y'all working on
any bigger projects right now,any new songs?

(48:36):
Can you give any teasers or doyou need to keep that locked?

Speaker 2 (48:38):
up, so nobody.
No, I mean, you know I'm notmaking.
I mean what.
I mean the teaser, what's it?
What would I even give as ateaser?
I mean with the band we have asong coming out in september yes
, early september called my mindis a prison yeah okay, uh,
which, uh, which is just reallyabout you know, it's what it

(48:58):
sounds like, just like anxiety.
Basically it's about anxiety andum and my geo.
I have something coming outaugust 8th called I will be your
home, and actually that ismainly about.
It's a song I wrote for my wifewhen her because her great aunt
was her basically like herparent, and when her great aunt

(49:20):
died, I wrote that song for her,and this is before we were even
dating.
I've known my wife since wewere nine and 10.
So we've known each other ourwhole lives.
Oh wow.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
So you know, she really likes you then.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
If she's known you, then if she's not, yeah or or.
She's a phenomenal actor, manphenomenal.
You know she deserves, I deserveto be fooled at that point but
I wrote that, I wrote that onefor her and it fits.
It fits, uh, for my daughtertoo and um, and it even, uh, it
even works as like, like,basically like god telling you
I'll be your home yeah, his nameis so I'll be your home.

(49:55):
So it worked.
I think it worked for the mikegeo stuff to, to put that one
out.
But then the rest of the stuffis uh, it's like ccm pretty much
okay, now, when you guys do,you guys do collaborations with
other bands.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
Have you ever done it before?
Like, didn't you mentionanother rapper that was on a
song of yours, or was that therapper?

Speaker 2 (50:17):
That's on Saints in Exile.
We had on my Dead End.
We had a rapper named, aChristian rapper named Cut Right
.
We also had we had a few peopleon that one actually, but he
was like the main one we hadsome people singing back up
Genie Ortega, who's a um anartist, um this guy named

(50:37):
jericho, he's another, he, theseare, and these are all
christian artists.
By the way, okay, jericho, uh,this guy um luke demars, I think
his last name is, I hope I hopeI didn't butcher that he's.
He's actually a?
Um, a worship leader.
He may be a pastor too.
It's the rapper who knows him,so I don't know him very well

(50:57):
gotcha and I think that's.
I think that's everyone that wason there do you do?

Speaker 1 (51:03):
you have your own youtube channel as well, with
just like you, with your stuffyeah, it's mike chio music okay,
um, so how many songs do youhave out, or does your band have
out the band?

Speaker 2 (51:17):
has three three and my and the mike geo one has
maybe seven, six, seven, eight,probably seven or eight now.

Speaker 1 (51:26):
Do any of these songs like?
When I had songs, there waslike one particular song that I
put out on Apple that was likeon iTunes.
That was like that was if youheard that song, you heard my
heart.
Like that was how I was reallyfeeling, like that was me and
that in that time of my life.
Is there a song with the bandor the song like you personally,
that like if you could say,like this right here, this was

(51:52):
not a topical song, this was nota general season, this right
here speaks to the heart of theband.
Or this song is like this isMike Geo in transition, or
whatever.
Is there any songs that arelike that that you can think of
off the top of your head?

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Yeah, I would say there's one by a Mike Geo, one
called Be Refined, that reallyand it caused a bunch of
controversy, the song, but thatwas one where what I wrote I
really, really felt when I wroteit.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
What was some of the controversy over?

Speaker 2 (52:31):
Well, so first I'll tell you the short side so you
can actually see from theirpoint of view, and then I'll
explain the context of the song,the rest of the lyrics.
So in the chorus it sayssometimes church can feel so
phony, like if you're not happy,you're not holy.
Makes you feel like you'relosing faith, but like the
prodigal you'll find if you'renot broken, makes you feel like

(52:52):
you're losing faith, but likethe prodigal, you'll find if
you're not broken, you can't berefined.
And so basically I like it,thank you.
What the what it's supposed tomean?
Is that like you feel, like youhave to hide how you feel, not
because people are forcing youto, but you feel like you have
to as a Christian.

(53:13):
And especially because I was aworship leader at the church I
was at and I had a lot going onIn the late 2022,.
My grandmother passed away Nowshe was 93, but still was hard.
My wife's uncle died like amonth before that and then my

(53:33):
grandfather died two monthsthree months after my
grandmother this is mygrandfather on the other side of
the family, though um and thenmy wife was pregnant and she had
a miscarriage right after that.
So I was kind of like I was ina really bad head space and I
actually I went through my notesI I one point I wrote I was

(53:55):
apparently I don't even rememberthis I was praying to god when
I would go to bed.
Like god, can you just, likeyou know, just like I don't want
to wake up, like could you dome, do this for me?
type of thing, which is a reallycrazy thing to think.
But I mean elijah, you know,also prayed for that.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
So I don't feel totally crazy.
People forget that all the time, like just because you have
doubts or questions, like god isbig enough to receive those and
hear those and love you throughit.
Like, like you've seen online,church people are the quickest
people.
Or say church people, they'rethe quickest people to like rip
in, we eat our own.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
Like that.
And oh yeah, and that's whathappened when I put this and I
actually I showed the song to alot of people.
I showed it to a pastor thatI'm very close with, who knows,
like my pastor, my former pastorat that church and everything,
and you know, no one had aproblem with it, whatever.
And when it came out, thepastor of that church was

(55:00):
insistent it was about him andthe church that that lyric was
like a shot at them.
And the thing is is I did havea lot of issues with them, but
the song had nothing to do withit and I didn't even make him
really aware that I had allthese issues.
But regardless, you know,apparently he said the pastor

(55:21):
told the elder that there was abig thing at the Bible study
where people were like freakingout about the song.
Now, I know the people who goto the Bible study, so when I,
when I hear this, I'm like well,I'm going to ask them.
Yeah, and everybody said thatthere was nothing mentioned.
There was no song was nevermentioned.

(55:41):
So the only thing I could thinkof is that he just said it.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
Also known as lying.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
Yeah, so that happened and then, and then he
was also because I was makingcontent back then that was like,
just because you're depresseddoesn't mean that, um, you don't
have enough faith and stufflike that, to go with the song.
Because in that in that churchthere was a vibe of that and

(56:09):
even would go up and givesermons that said, if you feel
like you need therapy, jesus andtherapy, you don't trust jesus
enough.
Like they didn't really have avery that's dumb, yeah, that's.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
And in fact, what's really?

Speaker 2 (56:27):
what's really funny uh, if I don't know if I would
call it funny is that theassistant pastor and his wife
are therapists and they evenwear shirts that say Therapy and
Jesus, and then he's sayingthis in front of her.
I'm like huh.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
So self-unaware.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
He didn't like what I said.
it's so self-unaware they haveno clue, like just talking out
of their yeah, well, he's, youknow, and that's why it's, you
know, your assistant pastor is,is a therapist and he's and they
wear these the hoodiessometimes and then you're making
this comment that you can'thave therapy.
And, by the way, I first heasked me in private about my

(57:09):
therapist.
Oh, could you give me hisnumber?
So apparently he believes in it.
But publicly, publicly, he didit.
And so I don't, I don't know.
I told him I wouldn't, Iwouldn't, I wouldn't have
mentioned that.
But um, back then, but too late, the statute of limitations.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
I guess it was one of those where it's like it's a
good saying and it sounds goodfrom the pulpit, but one of
those things that like, if youthink about it, it's really dumb
, like that doesn't even makesense.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
Well, we've had conversations, he does, you know
.
I even said he told me well, ifyou broke your leg in the
middle of the desert, what areyou going to do?
You can only pray.
And we're talking in relationto mental health and I'm like,
but we're not in the desert.
It's not the same thing.
We're not in the desert.
I'm like, yeah, if we were inthe, if we were on mars somehow

(58:02):
and there was no one around, yes, we would be down to prayer for
sure.
But here on earth, if you breakyour foot, here on earth, if
you break your foot, god hasmade people doctors and given us
blessings of medicine to help,so why would you ignore it?
Yeah, that was an interestingconversation.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
So we've touched on it a little bit.
So where do you find yourselfright, like your spiritual walk?
You find yourself right, likeyour spiritual walk, like I know
you've you've publicly saidyou've you've had some church or
bad experiences and and likeare you currently going to a
church regularly?
Have you found a healthy bodyto be part of or are you still
searching?

Speaker 2 (58:44):
you know, honestly, yeah, honestly, it's very hard
to.
So there was a place over hereand I really like the people and
I like the pastor actually, buttwo weeks after going very
quickly, oh, maybe you couldjoin the worship team, and they
say no pressure, but it feltlike I'm getting sucked in too
fast here.

(59:04):
Yeah and I just got out of theother one where I really loved I
still love the people that wentthere and the church doesn't
exist anymore, that old churchanyway.
But I love the people that wentthere and the church doesn't
exist anymore, that old churchanyway.
But I love the people that wentthere and it's just like it
feels like when it's like if youwere in a relationship and you
break up and then you meetsomeone else and they're like,

(59:27):
hey, let's go get married andyou're like, oh, wait a minute,
I just met you.
I don't even know your name yet.
Know, that's, that's, that'show it feels.
And so it's been very, it's verydifficult, very difficult for
me.
And then, of course, once thebaby came, um, it's.
You know it's been hard to.
You know it's it's my fault fornot going so much, but it's

(59:50):
been very hard, like it to comeback from what I went through
because so much happened.
I mean even stuff that happenedthat I didn't put up and I
can't, I wouldn't even talkabout, because it's not even
about me, it's about otherpeople.
That's just so messed up whereit's just like it would be very
hard for me, it's very hard forme to trust and and get close to

(01:00:12):
people when, because even afterI left, it's like people didn't
.
You know there's people thatreached, that kept in contact,
but a lot didn't, um, and Idon't know what was said,
because in that cult, in thechurch culture there, if you
left and went to another churchor you left in general, you were
not talked well about at all.

(01:00:34):
So and I never told anyonereally what happened.
I told tiktok like a year later.
I told them the parts of it.
But so my, my church journey iskind of fractured.
Still, my spiritual journey isfractured, um, but I'm very

(01:00:57):
aware that it's fractured in away that is going to, that is
building to a stronger umconnection.
But the thing is I, myrelationship with, uh, god
happened on its own before Istarted going to that church and
had it not, and it happenedthrough the church.

(01:01:19):
I don't know what would, Idon't know what my stance like,
I don't know how I would havecame out the other end of it.
And that's what scares not me,but scares me for other people
that if they go into a situationthat turns sour but like the
foundation of their relationshipwith God was, based in that
place.
Yeah, what happens to them?

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
Yeah, we see that a lot around here in East Texas.
Like everybody thinks, if theygo to church, or because their
mom and dad went to this church,or the grandparents went to a
church, like they think thatthey are Christian.
Like everybody automaticallyassumes, oh, if you to this
church, or the grandparents wentto a church, like they think
that they are Christian.
Like they automatically,everybody automatically assumes,
oh, if you go to church, allyou have to do is go to church,
pay your tithes, serve in thechurch, like let's get you
serving somewhere.
And those things are good, butthey are not necessary for

(01:02:03):
salvation.
And this I tell my people thisall the time.
We have churches full of weakChristians because they're built
, their Christianity, theirrelationship with God, is built
on a person or an organizationor a building, and so if that is
excluded from life now, theirChristian walk is unstable.

(01:02:25):
Because it was built on faultypretenses and sand, like it was
not built on Christ's solid rock.
It was built on a person Likewe're.
I come from a church that webelieve.
Lay hands on the sick, watchthem recover.
You know, as James tells us todo.
We have altar call forsalvation every single Sunday,
but I have structured my churchto where, when we have altar

(01:02:48):
time, I have people from theaudience that I know have prayer
lives, that read the word, thatare mature Christians.
Like that's actually themission and vision of my church
is spiritual maturity, likebringing spiritual maturity back
to God's house again so we candisagree and still love each
other.
We can, you know, be indifferent walks of life and

(01:03:09):
different backgrounds andeverything, but still coexist as
the body of Christ and be thebody of Christ to the community.
And when we get healthy inside,we can be healthy outside.
And so I have people selectedthat when I give a cue for
salvation or whatever, ifsomebody is sick and you need
prayer for healing in your body,these people come up and they

(01:03:33):
pray for people.
Sometimes I do pray for them ifI feel like I'm supposed to,
but I don't want them to come toget prayer from a person.
I want them to come and thebody do what the body's supposed
to do To me.
That's healthier becausethey're not depending on a
person or an organization.
We need to be biblically soundand have biblical literacy so

(01:03:58):
that we can have a fullunderstanding of God and what
the church should look like andnot what we create it and want
it to be.
Or what a denomination says andwe are a part of a denomination
, but the Bible to me comesfirst, not a denomination says
and we are a part of adenomination, but like, the
bible to me comes first, notdenomination.
Like the denomination to me isa a good barometer and it helps

(01:04:21):
keep things accountable becausewe have somebody that we
actually answer to and but weanswer to god first and
denomination second.
So, yeah, I fully agree withyour.
Everything you said is 100%true.
Like there are people that willleave churches if there's a
pastor change or a worshipleader change or a youth pastor

(01:04:41):
change.
And like, if God led yousomewhere, should you not wait
for the leading of the Lord tomake you or to position you in a
different place instead ofpreference?
That's just my personal twocents.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
Yeah, and you know, that's the thing.
When I was there, I really feltlike I started questioning if I
should stay around early 2023.
And I say early 2024 becauseI'm like I just don't know if
God wants me to leave.
I just wasn't sure, I justdon't know, I didn't feel like I
was getting an answer.
Um, and it wasn't.

(01:05:18):
It wasn't until, like, thingshit the fan.
But I will tell you, if I didleave, nothing to do with the
church, but there are thingsthat I was around for that,
positively, I feel, helped otherpeople.
It has nothing to do with thechurch, though, but had I left,
I don't know if I would havebeen, but after those things it

(01:05:39):
felt like it's time, it was timeto go.
It just it took a long time.
I just I didn't want to do, Ididn't want to make it.
I don't like making decisionsbased off of emotion, one being
because in the morning.
In the morning, I may be likewhy am I even?
Why am I doing that?
Like I like music, I may saywhy am I doing music?

(01:06:00):
What's the point?
Like nobody, like nobody'slistening, and then at night, I
could feel good and I'm likeinspired to write.
It's like same exact day butjust different shifts same day.
It depends.
Maybe I didn't get enough, youknow.
You know I drank some extracaffeine and now I feel good.

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
So I don't like making emotional decisions and
so it sometimes takes me, if Idon't hear something that's
obvious, takes me a while to wedid the same thing, but because
we went from that you know I wastalking to you about, uh, the
tyler is a local place about anhour from here.
I worked there almost every dayand then, but we lived over

(01:06:39):
there on Tyler and we moved tolong view in actually 2020, uh,
in July of 2020.
And we made that the churchswitch and it wasn't that where
we came from was unhealthy, butwe knew me and my wife, we knew
that God was calling ussomewhere else, but we didn't
know where yet.

(01:06:59):
And so in like 2019, the guythat was the pastor over here in
Longview, the church we're atnow, he called me and he said,
hey, uh, I've built this churchback up.
It was all.
It was almost dead and you know, people stopped coming, but
we're building a new buildingthis year.
We just built a new building.
I want you to come over as theworship leader and the associate

(01:07:20):
pastor, let the people get usedto you, and then, uh, and then
we'll, we'll make the transition.
The board members are on board,you know all this stuff.
And so that was 2019, almost afull year.
I did not hear anything fromhim and I'm like Lord, did we
like?
Like we.
We said, yes, we were, we knewGod wanted us to go there.

(01:07:41):
But it like God didn't releaseus from that place yet.
And it wasn't until a yearlater that we got the phone call
Okay, we're ready now for youto come over and things are as
they should be.
And I'm like but for that year Iwas not happy where we were, my
wife wasn't happy, and it's notthat it was a bad place, it was
just like we knew it was timeto go.

(01:08:01):
And so I'm one of those that Ijust don't sit Like I gotta be
like, if it's time to go, let'sgo, let's get it done.
And so I was getting antsy andI was like, did we hear wrong?
Like did God actually want usto go there?
I'm questioning like all theanswers I already had.
But it was just because God wasmaking me sit there for a
minute and be patient and waiton him for him to do the release

(01:08:23):
and not me to try to rush.
But when it was time,everything went completely
smooth.
It was like boom, boom, boom.
One thing after another and itwas God's timing and it was
perfect.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
That's a really good point to make, because you know
what A lot of people, includingmyself, if we feel our natural
instinct is to do to get theresult.
And yeah, sometimes God saysyeah, says yeah.
You gotta like, look at davidman, it's like your anointed

(01:08:56):
king and he's like, yeah, maybehe's like yeah, fantastic.
But yeah, imagine if it's likeyour anointed king.
But first of all, if it was me,yeah I wouldn't have made.
I wouldn't have made it to kingokay I would have.
I would have given up.
Yeah, I mean, you got soulchasing you.
You're out in the, you're outthere pretending that you have
something wrong with you so youdon't get killed.
What an insane story.

(01:09:17):
And what was it like?
maybe 10 years, 15 years, Idon't know and then finally
finally, uh, so it's like, yeah,sometimes god has a plan and he
and he makes you aware of it,but it is very easy to want to
put in your own hands whichDavid did not do.
He would not kill Saul, he, he,he still respected that Saul

(01:09:41):
was King.

Speaker 1 (01:09:44):
And which is hard to do, especially because he knew
the position Saul was in wasactually rightfully from the
prophet.
He was in order to take thatposition and yet he didn't like
force his way into it.
He let God orchestrate it,which, yes, that whole story is
just crazy like I don't think Iif I'm, if I'm even making it to

(01:10:06):
the part where David had theopportunity to kill Saul David.
David was a warrior, he knewhow to fight.
He killed Goliath already.
This is down the line of hisstory.
He's not a young boy anymore,now he's a man.
I don't know if I would havethe restraint to, especially in
that day and time, to not killhim.
He is literally seeking to killme.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
Yeah, I mean, he could have done it, he would
have succeeded in it.
You know, even Joseph, it'slike he has these dreams and the
brothers you know sell him awayand he goes through all this
stuff and then he gets accusedof hitting on.
Um, I don't forget if it's thePharaoh's wife or someone
Potiphar's wife.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
I think he's like the firsthand man or something to
Pharaoh.

Speaker 2 (01:10:50):
He was up in prison.
So he's like I mean this isridiculous, like I'm done.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
Forget it For doing the right thing.

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
Like forget it.
Meanwhile he winds up savinghis whole family.
You know, in the end it took solong, but it all came full
circle.
It's really hard in between tofunction.
I would say.

Speaker 1 (01:11:12):
Yeah, I have to constantly remind myself, like
if I'm ever in a position, likeI was in in that full year, to
not rush Because, like Abrahamand his wife Sarah, they were
promised a son, they werepromised that in their late age.
I mess with some of the olderpeople in my church and I'm like
, hey, we'll pray for you thatthat God will give you a child,

(01:11:33):
and like no, no, no, no, no, no,no, I don't want that.
Hey, abraham and Sarah, right,and they're like no, no, no, no,
no, I don't want.
I'm good.
But like he tried to do it onhis own and he messed up big
time and there was repercussionsand conflict that he, if he
would have just waited on God,everything would have been all
right.

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
That's a great point.
Waiting is terrible, a hundredpercent.
Even waiting for food at adiner Right.

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
That's why fast food is so like the obvious choice
most of the time, because wewant it now, we want it quick.

Speaker 2 (01:12:08):
Although it's not always fast, sometimes I'm
waiting there 15 minutes.

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
Yeah, do y'all have Chick-fil-a in new york?
We do.
Is it as fast?
Around here chick-fil-a is fast.
It's like if you want fast foodand they get fast, like they do
the line quick.
Is it that good up there?

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
yeah, it's like, it's like average, it's like it's
not, it's not like um, you orderit and then it's out.
I mean you, you'll wait inmaybe like five minutes, which
isn't bad at all.
So I get the grilled chickenthere.
I like it a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:12:33):
Yeah, it's God's chicken, right?
Yeah, you know I I didn'trealize one time I pulled into
their parking lot.
I was going to after Sundayservice and I pulled in.
I'm like I've never been moredisappointed that somebody was
closed on a Sunday because I Iwas ready for it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
It's happened to me.
Yeah, it's happened to me sowell.

Speaker 1 (01:12:55):
Is there anything else you'd like to share as far
as your story, or anything you'dlike the listeners to know
about your vision and and youruh, your music?

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
always the worst part , because I never know what to
say.
Um, no, I mean, I'm just, atthe end of the day, trying to go
wherever God is leading me andit's very hard.
It's hard to know Sometimes.
It's hard to know where he'sleading you because it doesn't
always look the way you thoughtit would be.

(01:13:26):
It probably doesn't usuallylook the way you thought it
would be, so it's very hard.
So I always, you know, I'll saymy thing is to always pray God.
Wherever you want me to go, letthe doors open there, and
wherever you, don't let them beimpossible, even if it's what I
want, which is a hard, which is,I mean, you know you can,

(01:13:48):
sometimes you can cringe whenyou pray that.
But, like, at the end of the day, that's what, that's what
matters at the end of the dayand yeah, I'm just trying my
best.
I got you know, I got new musiccoming out from both sides and
hey, if you have a, if you haveproblem or if you had a failure

(01:14:12):
in church, it does not reflectgod and what he wants from you
and there is something he will,could use in that yeah to bring
something out of you you didn'tknow you had yeah, I think
that's a good zoom in onmaturity Like

Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
it's not until we have to do things ourselves and
we have to make decisions thehard decisions or the decision
just to highlights, and, uh, I'mvery excited to see, uh, what's
next in the chapter of you andyour band.
Like I was and I hope you don'ttake this wrong but I was so
impressed when I, like went onyour youtube channel I'm like

(01:15:06):
the I was being able to listento the whole songs.
I'm like this is like this isgood stuff.
Like I sent it to a few peopleso you may get a few more
subscribers on there Hopefullyyou will after this video comes
out too but you, you guys gotthe stuff.
Like you guys are actuallytalented.
I really like I enjoyed yourmusic, so I'm excited about
where y'all are going to go andand and blow up and, and then

(01:15:28):
I'll do anything I can to helpyou along the way.
I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:33):
We'll do this again sometime.

Speaker 1 (01:15:38):
Yeah, that'd be awesome.
And you know what?
Like apologetics, I guaranteeyou you can probably do your own
thing and teach the Bible asyou go through it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:41):
You know I I'll.
I'll name drop just a couple ofthese guys I like, in case
anyone else wants to look themout.

Speaker 1 (01:15:47):
Um well, it's the first one that comes to mind is
jay warner wallace.

Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
You ever hear of him?
He does something called coldcase christianity.

Speaker 1 (01:15:56):
Oh, yes, okay, yes, yeah fantastic, um, you've got.

Speaker 2 (01:16:01):
I mean, obviously the guy, uh, rabbi, he's had some
issues, but yeah he's.
I forget his last name, buthe's really good, now was he the
one that?

Speaker 1 (01:16:09):
was he the one that died just recent?
He did die, yeah, yeah, that'syeah, because didn't it come out
after he had died?
Maybe his controversy?
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
I think so actually.
Yeah, the guy was brilliant.
Yeah, there's um, oh man,what's the guy's name?
It's?
It's my favorite one too.
I can't remember his name, thethe turk, do you know?
I know, I know him too, notpersonally, but I know who he is
, you know, I know I know himtoo, not personally, but I know
who he is.
You know, that's cool.
No, no, no, no, um, oh man, uh,william Lane Craig.

Speaker 1 (01:16:39):
Oh yeah, dude's phenomenal.
He's got a lot of good bookstoo.

Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
Oh yeah, I can go on all day about it, so I'll leave
it One of the top ones, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:49):
Well, thank you so much.
And for everybody who islistening or watching, if you're
on YouTube or anywhere youlisten to podcasts, all the
links to Mike's YouTube channelfor the band his TikTok, and are
you on Instagram and stuff likethat too?
Do you kind of all the socialmedia stuff?

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
Yeah, it's all the same.
So for me it's Mike Geo Music,G-E-O music everywhere, and for
the band it's all the same.
So it's for me it's mike geomusic, geo music everywhere, and
for the band it's saints inexile band okay, awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:17:18):
So all those links will be down below.
Thank you so much for listeningto another episode and
interview on faith and failuresand we will see you next time.

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
God bless you faith and failures podcast.

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