May 14, 2025 • 25 mins
Episode 150 - From Novels to Films: An Author’s Journey
In this episode of the Faith and Family Filmmakers podcast, your host Jaclyn Whitt interviews Dan Walsh, a bestselling Christian fiction author. Dan shares his unique journey from being a pastor for 25 years to becoming a full-time novelist in 2010, with 29 novels on Amazon and over 1.8 million copies in circulation. He discusses how his first novel 'The Unfinished Gift,' inspired by classic Christmas films, led to his publishing success and eventual transition to indie publishing. Dan also delves into the adaptation of his novels into faith-based films, including 'The Unfinished Gift' and 'The Reunion,' the latter being picked up by producers of the hit movie 'Reagan.' Dan's story highlights the importance of God's timing and sovereignty in realizing one's dreams.
Highlights Include:
- Welcome and Introduction
- Journey to Becoming a Writer
- The Breakthrough Novel: The Unfinished Gift
- Finding a Publisher
- Navigating the Changing Publishing Landscape
- Transition to Independent Publishing
- From Books to Movies: ‘The Reunion’ Saga
- Challenges and Triumphs in Film Adaptation
- Conclusion and Reflections
Bio:
Dan Walsh is a bestselling Christian fiction author, writing fulltime since 2010, with 29 novels on Amazon. His books have received over 65,000 reviews (4.7 Avg). Over 1.8 million copies are in print or downloaded. Two fan-favorites are now being made into faith-based films. His very first novel, a Christmas story set on the homefront during WW2, The Unfinished Gift, is in pre-production with his son's production team. The rights to another of his most popular books, The Reunion, have been bought by the producers of the hit movie, Reagan. The script is written, and it's currently in pre-production with them also.
Promo for Unfinished Gift https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo3AhsClPv0
FAFF Association Online Meetups: https://faffassociation.com/#faff-meetings
Screenwriters Retreat - Mexico: https://www.faffassociation.com/writers-retreat
Jaclyn's Book - In the Beginning, Middle and End: A Screenwriter’s Observations of LIfe, Character, and God: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D9R7XS9V
VIP Producers Mentorship Program https://www.faffassociation.com/vip-producers-mentorship
Editing by Michael Roth
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It is produced and hosted by Geoffrey Whitt and Jaclyn Whitt , and is brought to you by the Faith & Family Filmmakers Association
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Faith andFamily Filmmakers podcast.
My name is Jaclyn and todayI am speaking with Dan Walsh.
Dan Walsh is a bestselling Christianfiction author writing full-time
since 2010 with 29 novels on Amazon.
His books have received over 65,000reviews, typically at a 4.7 average.
(00:22):
Over 1.8 million copiesare in print or downloaded.
Two fan favorites are now beingmade into faith-based films.
His very first novel, a Christmas storyset on the home front during World War ii.
The unfinished gift is in pre-productionwith his son's production team.
The rights to another ofhis most popular books.
(00:43):
The reunion have been bought by theproducers of the hit movie, Reagan.
The script is written and it's currentlyin pre-production with them also.
Welcome to the podcast, Dan.
Thanks for having me, I'm reallyglad to be here with you guys.
Yeah, so this is really interesting.
So you are the first novelist that we'vehad on our podcast, so this is gonna
be a great conversation because I knowit is one of those things like when you
(01:07):
look at the stats for, the percentage ofmovies that are made that are taken from
A book turned into a film are pretty high.
Like it's more than one in five.
It, it's somewhere around there, likearound 20%, 23%, something like that.
So it, it's a pretty decent number.
(01:28):
So it, it's actually really goodfor us to have this conversation.
And I'm curious though, bef.
Before we dive into that side ofit, I wanna kind of back up and I
wanna get to know you as a writer.
When did writing becomethe main thing for you?
Because it said in the bio that since2010 you've been writing full time.
(01:50):
So where did that begin andhow did you get to that stage?
Fortunately, I've answered this questionenough that I think I can keep it short.
It's kind of quite a, quite atale, but I actually was a pastor
for 25 years full-time and of asmallish church, 250, 300 total.
I think it this, it was a, you know, bythe end of it wasn't the large church,
(02:11):
it was like small staff, you know, me andone of the pastor and full-time secretary.
So got to wear a lot ofhats as a lot of smaller.
Pastors learn how to do.
I actually wanted to be a writer though.
If you go back to 11th grade,that's what I thought I was gonna
do with my life is write novels.
I had wound up taking a creativewriting elective course in 11th
grade, and before that, I don't thinkI wrote maybe more than a couple
(02:35):
of sentences on a greeting card.
So it wasn't like I had thisawareness that I could write.
But after I took that class,we kind of just lit up
something in me and everything.
I turned in, she's like eight plus plus.
She read stuff to the client.
Wow.
I was a little bit embarrassed,obviously, 'cause I'm a, I had this
sort of images long, long-haired surferdude, and all of a sudden I'm, you
(02:55):
know, people are saying you can write.
I'm like, I'd never writtenanything right until that moment.
So, and then after the class was over,she actually, like, before the summer
break, she pulled me aside and she said.
You might be one of the most naturallygifted writers I've ever taught.
You could really be a writer ifyou, if you worked that hard at it.
And I was pretty taken by thatbecause nobody had ever given
me that level of encouragement.
(03:17):
And, you know, at that 11th grade
Wow.
Yeah.
you know, what am I gonna do with my life?
So, but life, you know, as it goes, Ibecame radically converted to Christ the
next year, senior year, and that justcompletely my focus to want to really
understand the Lord and know the Bible.
And I. Wound up setting the, thewriting aside in this pursuit of God,
(03:40):
I guess you say, knowing God I woundup also at the end of my high school
year towards the end, met the loveof my life who now married almost 49
years with, so it was the right thing.
People say, you knowhow, how do you know it?
Most of the not be ready of my 50thhigh school reunion in a month.
And everybody's like, when theyfind out you guys are still
married, you know, because wewere together back then, you know?
But she loved my writing.
(04:00):
But what wound up happening is Iexperienced what people might call
a call to ministry when I was 19and wound up for the next many
years preparing to become a pastor.
And at age 28.
Became a full-time pastor.
So of course very busy lifeand writing fiction novels
was not anywhere to be found.
So I, I loved fiction and I keptreading fiction that whole time.
(04:21):
But I thought maybe God will letme do this when I get older and
retire Well, what wound up happening?
Fast forward to year 22, I wasburning out as a pastor, and one of
the things that they recommended,we went to conference for pastors.
lot of pastors can suffer from burnout.
They recommend you.
You just need to findsomething that refreshes you.
Something that relaxes you,like you can help you unwind.
'cause you don't, most pastorsdon't clock in, clock out, you know?
(04:45):
So on the way home, my wife's like,when we met, used to love to write
and maybe you should try that, youknow, that's as deep as it was.
And so that happened tobe near Christmas time.
So over the Christmas I happenedto watch the two movies I
always watch every Christmas.
It's a wonderful life.
And one of the Christmascarols, you know, with Dickens.
So affected by these, I, I rememberpraying, Lord, if I was gonna write
(05:05):
a novel, I'd like to write a storythat at least have the potential to
affect people the way these books do.
I mean, these stories do every year.
Over that holiday.
The, the, actually the storyfor the unfinished gift just
kind of dropped into my lap.
Uh, it just started popping into myhead, like, you know, I was seeing
it like, and I just was jottingit down and over about, I think
before the first, before New Year's.
(05:27):
I had, what, what I later would understandwas the synopsis written, because I
didn't know what to call it, but Iread this story idea to my wife and
she's like, oh my gosh, that's amazing.
You should write that.
So I did that over thenext, you know, year.
I was writing the unfinished gift inmy spare time when it was finished.
And of course back thenwe're talking 2008.
(05:48):
2008. There wasn't any,Amazon was nothing.
There was no Amazon.
There was no faith-based movies.
Everything that we now know and seemedpretty very familiar with was all
there was was fiction, and there wasbig, there was chain bookstores like
books, million and Barnes and Noble.
And if you wanted to buy a book, you wentto a store and you got it off the shelf.
And to get published, I foundout was very, very hard.
(06:11):
I mean, it was just like everythingI read and everybody I talked to
said, you know, be prepared fordrawers full of rejection letters.
Well, oddly enough that didn't happen.
I. I had a experience that, as I'vecome to know now, getting to know
hundreds of writers, nobody has astory like mine and people who hear
my story kind of tend to hate me.
Uh, 'cause I kind of didn't.
(06:32):
And you could say, pay my dues.
What wound up happening was I, I,I wrote this story, this Christmas
novel and went to Barnes and Nobleto find out how to polish it up and
get it ready to publish everything.
Told me you have to go to an an agent,you gotta have a literary agent.
You can't go directly a publisher.
So I looked into that.
Back then there was, America Online waskind of like, the internet may maybe old
(06:53):
enough to remember that you've got mail.
That was kind of the buzzword for
Oh yeah, yeah.
Back then a OL.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I remember.
phone modems.
It was super slow, Iwrote this novel, right?
And then I've spent all this timecleaning it up and I had no, I'd
never been to a conference, neverbeen to a critique group, never
met any other writers, really.
And I, from what I learned, thiswas how you approach agents.
(07:14):
So I sent these three packages, thefirst three agents on this list of
people who are told to me, these arethe A-listers in Christian fiction,
expecting course to be rejected.
And I was gonna make my waythrough the whole list until I,
you know, got to the blisters
Yeah, start at the top andthen work your way down.
I worked my way down and maybe some,maybe, well, the first three I got a
rejection letter, one, the other two bothcalled me and said, I love what you sent.
(07:39):
Wanna read the whole book?
One asked for the me to print itup and send it in a box, which
was what they did back then.
You actually would send themanuscript in a box The other one
was like, I can't wait for that.
I want you to send it to me overAmerica Online, which is phone modem.
So all night long it took, for one wordfile, just watch this little blue screen.
Oh my goodness.
(08:00):
like two and a half hoursfor one word file to get her.
If any moment left the call, I have
to start the thing over.
Well, she got it.
Read it the next day.
in one day.
It was a few hundred 50 page novel.
She read it one day.
You called me back up that night andsaid it was crying actually, you know,
she goes, I, I, I can sell this book,please don't sign with anyone else.
(08:20):
And I was actually thinking.
I hope she's legit 'cause she seemsa little desperate to, and so she,
I looked her up and I told her I'd,I'd get back with her the next day.
I went ahead and actually lookedher up again to make sure.
And sure enough she had, you know,she'd been at her for 15 years.
She was in New York City.
She had a, she was formerly asecular literary agent who'd
moved to Christian fiction.
Now had, you know, authors in bothsides, but she was trying, trying
(08:42):
to feature Christian fiction.
So I signed with her and sure enough, fiveweeks later she had a contract with one of
the big five Christian fiction publishers.
The next Christmas, I'm thereat Barnes and Noble with a
hardback book with my name on it.
My wife's taking my picture
Yeah, that's not everybody's journey.
Definitely not.
And that book Wound Up winning, uh,two Carol Awards, the best debut
(09:05):
author and best historical fiction,and was in all these magazines.
I'm getting interviews and they havea publicity staff and, and a whole
staff of people were promoting me.
They're spending thousands of dollars.
And then now the questionis, what else you got?
You know, book two.
I'm like, I don't have anything.
I wasn't thinking, if you had told methen you're gonna have 29, 30 books.
(09:25):
It's like, that's un, I didn'thave two, I didn't have three.
I was like, this was thebook I wrote to relax.
I wasn't thinking itwould become anything.
And so next thing you know, I'm,my wife and I are banging our heads
together about how we could writea sequel to the unfinished gift.
We came up with one, about50, 60 pages written.
They bought it.
That one came out.
That was the one that probably sort ofbegan to launch my, the direction for them
(09:47):
in terms of branding me because all themagazine and reviewers were calling me the
Nicholas Sparks of Christian Fiction, andI had never even read of a Nick Nicholas
Sparks book, but I went and saw someof his movies and I understood why I.
They were making those comparisons.
So that's what they said, that'syou're gonna be your brand So
for the next several years, upthrough 2015, I wrote 12 novels
with them under the sort of my name.
(10:08):
But they were like, you know, promotingme like Nicholas Sparks and hoping
that maybe some of the audience thatread his book would come my way.
And so that's what I did and, and Iwound up probably around the end of
2014, well, in 20 12, 20 13, that's whenI would say there's this major shakeup.
And Christian publishing and, and that'swhen Amazon, like a, like a tsunami came
(10:32):
in and just in effect ruined everythingthat was there before just wasteland.
Uh, publishers were going belly up.
Big publishers weremerging just to survive.
I, half of my author friendswere being dropped like a rock
because their publishing companycould only afford their contract.
Yeah, what happened?
That year, Amazon cameout with a Kindle at $99.
It was a number oneChristmas present in America.
(10:54):
Millions of people bought this Kindlefor $99 and all those people who
bought those Kindles stopped buyingprint books almost immediately.
So here you have all these publishers,like my publisher had, I dunno, I think
it was like 40,000 print run box boxesand boxes of books for the reunion, which
was my book that came out that fall.
Only half of the bookstores tookthe orders because everybody was
(11:18):
buying eBooks, and so everybody, notjust my publisher, all across the
publishing world, all were just tooka shellacking that year as they all
had to grapple with this new monster.
And Amazon only grew andits, you know, influence.
And so a couple more years working withmy publisher, I started to realize that.
as much as, as exciting as it wasworking with a publisher and all that,
(11:40):
it was also very confining because theyonly wanted me to stay in that very
narrow lane of the Nicholas Sparks guy.
There's all these other things Iwanted to write that they turned
down because it wasn't my brand.
So that's what made me, really madethe decision to go indie in 2015,
which has been a good move for me.
'cause I think my books are moredouble, triple in sales from when I was,
(12:01):
'cause half of my books are suspense,Christian suspense and the others are
like the Nicholas Sparks types book.
But also I, you know, I get to writewhat I want and there's nobody,
and even financially there's awhole lot less hands on the pie.
So it's been very good forus financially as well.
So that's.
So being able to go independent,like you started with the
(12:23):
publisher, which would you agree?
Did that help to build your audienceso that when you went independent,
then you were in a better positionthan someone who started independent?
I.
yes.
I would say definitely one.
The one challenge to that is if you thinkabout it by then, I had 12, actually, 13.
'cause I had one book with Guideposts.
I had 13 novels written.
(12:44):
I've talked to some of my good friendson the, in the indie publishing world
who have been very successful and Italked about for getting ready for
a conference to, I was speaking atthat everybody would assume because
I, my career as a traditional, thatI couldn't really speak to people
who are indie because I can't relate.
'cause I got, this, uh, big, huge audiencecame with the traditional success.
(13:07):
But when I talked to these writersthat I talked to, what they all had
in common, I asked them question,at what point could you leave
your day job and write full time?
And almost every one of 'em hadthe same answer when they had
about eight novels published.
And what it turned out to be, they hadlike two complete four book series.
So you think about it, They built theiraudience and they didn't have the fanfare.
(13:30):
I had, I had all this, youknow, publicity and things like
that that they didn't have.
But in terms of actually financialsuccess and building an audience,
I had 13 books and they had eight.
So it was really, I think the audience,what I, the lesson I learned from that was
a, you have to write books that readers.
Can't stop reading once they start.
(13:51):
I mean, you have to, the goal has to behoning the craft to where you write books
that readers just can't stop reading.
And if you do that, you learnhow to successfully write books
that people read to the end.
They're gonna read the next book and thenthey're gonna read the next book until
you run out book that you've written.
If you write a mediocre book, whichsadly there's many mediocre books being
written under the indie label, peopledon't stay with it and you don't.
(14:15):
The readers readership doesn't grow.
So I think readership growth,it was, they definitely helped.
But I think essentially re readershipgrowth is more about writing great
books and writing a lot sub them.
Having the patience to keep at ittill you've got enough books to
read where you can grow an audience.
makes sense.
Yeah.
So, okay, let's talk about howyou got then, moving toward the
(14:38):
film side, like whose idea was it?
How did it come about that Hey,let's make a book into a movie.
I was contacted my, many of your listenersprobably remember when the, when the movie
came out, the Christian movie came out.
God's not dead.
Yeah, probably a lot, dude.
It was like a $3 million budget,sold over 60 million in the theaters,
(14:58):
Yeah, it was huge.
In some ways, it openedthe door for so much more.
This happened because it, itcost all these people in the film
world to say, whoa, whoa, whoa.
3 million and 60 million.
And most of 'em had thoughtat, at, looked at faith-based
movies as, as flops, financially.
And so what happened was there's thisgroup of, of Christian directors,
producers, writers, they're in Hollywoodthat just kind of loosely connect.
(15:22):
And because they're, it's likeDaniel on the lines den, right?
They don't have very muchencouragement because they're
conservative and Christian.
So they would meet once a month and,uh, discuss and talk, well, that when
this that happened, this movie came out.
The topic of everybody's discussion was.
Maybe we should, you know, 'cause some,these guys had been working in film
for 20 years or more, but they alwaysmade movies that they didn't really
(15:42):
care about, that just made good money,kept them working, but they thought,
what wouldn't you like to end our lifemaking, doing something that matters?
I. and so they, they decided, let'spursue a project, a faith-based movie
project, and then they were on thehunt to find the book that would
become the story that they start with.
Well, out of the blue, as you know,just like sovereignty, I was, again,
you, what my tell you what happened?
(16:03):
It's not reproducible.
It's not like, well, this is what you do.
Follow these three things.
What happened was my churchsecretary for last 14 years,
loved my books big fan and her.
Godson was one of theseproducers in Hollywood.
He'd made 20 films, gave,gave you a list of films.
They're all these great big action films,like with Stallone and, but they were like
(16:23):
huge films with Millennium Productions.
And he was one of the guys.
And she said, ' hecalled her once a month.
Like he was more like, he was one of likehis mother, even though it was a godson.
He called once a month and she said.
He talked to her about that and shesaid, well, you, I've been telling you
about my pastor, and he writes thesegreat books and he was always, we talked
later, he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But to humor her, she said, okay, sendme a couple that you think are good
(16:46):
and I'll, I'll take a look at 'em.
She sends the reunionand the unfinished gift.
He called her back before the week wasover crying, having read the reunion
and said this book was, and he's nota crier, this is not a crying guy.
He hardly laughs out loud.
He's a very stoic kind of guy, but hewas just like, I have been affected this
deeply by story, and I, I passed it aroundto the guys and, and they're all the same.
(17:11):
This has gotta be the one, canyou find out if it's available?
Which was comical.
Is it available?
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
she said, well, I'm pretty sureit's available but I'll call.
So she called me excitedand said, what do you think?
I said, what do you meanwith Yeah, the answer is yes.
The only thing I'd be careful I don'tgive it away 'cause I'm so excited.
So anyways, that, that began, thissaga with the reunion, one of the guys,
(17:34):
Nick Lango, was one, one of these guys.
He wound up being the one that wasgonna write it for, for no, for no cost.
I just gave them, you know,we got an option contract.
He was gonna write the script at hisexpense just because he believed in
it and wanted to be a part of it.
Just so happens out of the blue, theyear after that, while he's working
on the script and we're talking andinteracting a lot, his story, the Green
(17:56):
Book gets picked up by, I think it was, I.
Warner Brothers, one of the big ones, gotpicked up and they wanted, they wanted
to turn it into a major production, andhad two other writer involved with him.
They turned this story into a script.
They wound up making it for 23 million.
It was one of those sleeper hits, and in2018, it wound up just being a major hit.
It made it for 23 million.
(18:17):
It wound up winning the GoldenGlobes, like three Gold Globes, and
it got Oscar nominations, and thenit wound up winning the Oscar for
best picture and best screenplay.
So all of a sudden he Nick's comingback to me saying, I think we need
reunion on hold and let this thingride this wave, how far it goes,
because I think it's gonna open a lotof doors for the reunion later on.
And I'm like, sure, whatever you guysthink, you know, and I'm just, you know,
(18:40):
writing keep on writing new books and.
Well, what wound up happening, and thisis what began this like seven years ago,
nobody could predict in that span time,it was like when he was finally ready and
all that success after Green Book, he waslike, he was shopping this story to like
a-list actors like I just, Sam Elliot,all these different people who we never
would've gotten the time to look at this.
(19:01):
We're all like, anythingyou're doing I wanna read.
And so they wound up signing adeal with a distribution company.
I'm not gonna name names because.
COVID hit and all of Hollywoodwent, you know, shut down.
And right at the height of all thismomentum, all the air got let outta the
balloon and it came kind of crashing down.
(19:21):
And nothing, there was nothing happening.
But unfortunately before that allhappened, but had gotten legally
contracted with distributor who onthe other end of Covid didn't survive.
One chapter 11 and the bankrupt,and it caused the reunion project
to get stuck in this legal thatwent on for a couple more years.
I kind of got to be like six years.
(19:43):
I figured, well, you know, maybeit's just not gonna happen, you know?
'cause it's like this stuckin this legal thing and no.
Well, out of the blue last AugustI get contacted by the two guys.
A pretty excited Nick and, and Frankand 'cause they had been, uh, working
with, and, and the guys that, uh, fromthe Reagan project who knew about the
reunion project and loved the story.
(20:03):
They found out that it was stuck likethat, and they decided this story
needs to be told and we're gonna,we'll work with us, we'll buy it,
free it from the, and create a newLLC and launch it in, into a new
direction free of all the entanglements.
and so I got the next thing I knowI'm, while I'm s funny, while I'm
watching Reagan in the theater, theguys that I'm talking with on Facebook
message are up there on the credits asthe credits were rolling afterwards.
(20:27):
It was pretty cool.
So, and the way they were talking aboutthe reunion was like, this is a, like
one of the best stories I've ever.
We, we couldn't let this thing sit there.
We ha we're gonna make this movie.
They have one more movie that they'regonna make, that they're committed to.
Between Reagan and mine, butmine's gonna be the one after
that that they're gonna work on.
It's obviously, uh, in goodhands, let's put it that way.
(20:48):
You know, it's, it, it, I justgave it new life and it seemed
like it was all completely dead.
There's obviously another tale,very different tale with unfinished
gift, the ones being made by my son.
I dunno if you have the time to get intothat or wanna take that another time,
Yeah, let's take that.
How about, let's get into that one in ourfollow-up interview, but before we finish
(21:09):
out this interview, I'm kind of piecingtogether a little bit of a, a theme and
I. You know, something that I think is,is very valuable that, that God is doing
and, and showing through your life.
One is he can make up time, you know, likeyou set writing aside for quite a long
time and then you came back and pickedit up, and then it just, it, just went.
(21:34):
Like all the doors were open for you.
And so I just wanna say for anybody outthere that had to set their dream aside
because they were serving God for a time,he's able to open those doors faster
than you could have on your own anyways.
And then second, I. It, it is one of thosethings that like when God says yes, like
it doesn't have to look the way that itwould for anybody else, because honestly,
(21:58):
there are not very many people thatwould be able to relate to your story.
Where everybody's like,Hey, are you available?
Let's, let's get this published andlet's, like, usually you do have to
go through a lot more rejection or youhave to be the one to pitch the story.
It's not very often that you wouldbe hunted down for a story, so.
It's an amazing journey that you have suchan incredible testimony and so it, yeah.
(22:21):
I'm excited to see these projectswhen they get made, and I'm very
interested in learning more aboutyour books, but as we finish this
portion, is there anything that youwould like to share with our audience?
Well, I guess the thing that I amconcerned that hearing my story.
It can seem like, okay, wellthat's like lightning strike.
(22:42):
What can I take away from that?
But it would really be what the wayyou summarized it pretty well, God is
sovereign and it's kind of almost likeseek first the kingdom of God and all
these things will be added to you.
I think we can get soobsessed with our part.
We don't realize our part at best.
That's what, what, what's needing isthis crowd to be fed and all we have
(23:05):
is five loaves and two fishes and,and we're trying to work that as best
we can and make it look as good aswe can and do everything we can in
the effort that we we're all, we'reall focused on our effort and we can
lose sight of the fact that what'sreally need is so much bigger than us.
And that we have to start, Iwould say putting more accent,
more emphasis on the prayer side.
(23:26):
The, the waiting on God's side.
The trusting in God'sside than the effort.
'cause what, that's what we can, I get,I gets obsessed about, so they're trying
to gotta try that, gotta try this.
And I'm not saying effort's not matter.
Obviously there's five loaves anddo fish then they're necessary.
But the real big thing is gonna turnout to be God in his sovereign way,
(23:49):
doing things that we can't controland that that's really is my story.
Even when you hear the next part of thestory, even though it's very different
path, it's very much the same theme.
So thank you for being onthis part of the podcast.
I'm looking forward to the next episode.
Welcome to the Faith andFamily Filmmakers podcast.
My name is Jaclyn and todayI am speaking with Dan Walsh.
Dan Walsh is a bestselling Christianfiction author writing full-time
since 2010 with 29 novels on Amazon.
His books have received over 65,000reviews, typically at a 4.7 average.
(00:22):
Over 1.8 million copiesare in print or downloaded.
Two fan favorites are now beingmade into faith-based films.
His very first novel, a Christmas storyset on the home front during World War ii.
The unfinished gift is in pre-productionwith his son's production team.
The rights to another ofhis most popular books.
(00:43):
The reunion have been bought by theproducers of the hit movie, Reagan.
The script is written and it's currentlyin pre-production with them also.
Welcome to the podcast, Dan.
Thanks for having me, I'm reallyglad to be here with you guys.
Yeah, so this is really interesting.
So you are the first novelist that we'vehad on our podcast, so this is gonna
be a great conversation because I knowit is one of those things like when you
(01:07):
look at the stats for, the percentage ofmovies that are made that are taken from
A book turned into a film are pretty high.
Like it's more than one in five.
It, it's somewhere around there, likearound 20%, 23%, something like that.
So it, it's a pretty decent number.
(01:28):
So it, it's actually really goodfor us to have this conversation.
And I'm curious though, bef.
Before we dive into that side ofit, I wanna kind of back up and I
wanna get to know you as a writer.
When did writing becomethe main thing for you?
Because it said in the bio that since2010 you've been writing full time.
(01:50):
So where did that begin andhow did you get to that stage?
Fortunately, I've answered this questionenough that I think I can keep it short.
It's kind of quite a, quite atale, but I actually was a pastor
for 25 years full-time and of asmallish church, 250, 300 total.
I think it this, it was a, you know, bythe end of it wasn't the large church,
(02:11):
it was like small staff, you know, me andone of the pastor and full-time secretary.
So got to wear a lot ofhats as a lot of smaller.
Pastors learn how to do.
I actually wanted to be a writer though.
If you go back to 11th grade,that's what I thought I was gonna
do with my life is write novels.
I had wound up taking a creativewriting elective course in 11th
grade, and before that, I don't thinkI wrote maybe more than a couple
(02:35):
of sentences on a greeting card.
So it wasn't like I had thisawareness that I could write.
But after I took that class,we kind of just lit up
something in me and everything.
I turned in, she's like eight plus plus.
She read stuff to the client.
Wow.
I was a little bit embarrassed,obviously, 'cause I'm a, I had this
sort of images long, long-haired surferdude, and all of a sudden I'm, you
(02:55):
know, people are saying you can write.
I'm like, I'd never writtenanything right until that moment.
So, and then after the class was over,she actually, like, before the summer
break, she pulled me aside and she said.
You might be one of the most naturallygifted writers I've ever taught.
You could really be a writer ifyou, if you worked that hard at it.
And I was pretty taken by thatbecause nobody had ever given
me that level of encouragement.
(03:17):
And, you know, at that 11th grade
Wow.
Yeah.
you know, what am I gonna do with my life?
So, but life, you know, as it goes, Ibecame radically converted to Christ the
next year, senior year, and that justcompletely my focus to want to really
understand the Lord and know the Bible.
And I. Wound up setting the, thewriting aside in this pursuit of God,
(03:40):
I guess you say, knowing God I woundup also at the end of my high school
year towards the end, met the loveof my life who now married almost 49
years with, so it was the right thing.
People say, you knowhow, how do you know it?
Most of the not be ready of my 50thhigh school reunion in a month.
And everybody's like, when theyfind out you guys are still
married, you know, because wewere together back then, you know?
But she loved my writing.
(04:00):
But what wound up happening is Iexperienced what people might call
a call to ministry when I was 19and wound up for the next many
years preparing to become a pastor.
And at age 28.
Became a full-time pastor.
So of course very busy lifeand writing fiction novels
was not anywhere to be found.
So I, I loved fiction and I keptreading fiction that whole time.
(04:21):
But I thought maybe God will letme do this when I get older and
retire Well, what wound up happening?
Fast forward to year 22, I wasburning out as a pastor, and one of
the things that they recommended,we went to conference for pastors.
lot of pastors can suffer from burnout.
They recommend you.
You just need to findsomething that refreshes you.
Something that relaxes you,like you can help you unwind.
'cause you don't, most pastorsdon't clock in, clock out, you know?
(04:45):
So on the way home, my wife's like,when we met, used to love to write
and maybe you should try that, youknow, that's as deep as it was.
And so that happened tobe near Christmas time.
So over the Christmas I happenedto watch the two movies I
always watch every Christmas.
It's a wonderful life.
And one of the Christmascarols, you know, with Dickens.
So affected by these, I, I rememberpraying, Lord, if I was gonna write
(05:05):
a novel, I'd like to write a storythat at least have the potential to
affect people the way these books do.
I mean, these stories do every year.
Over that holiday.
The, the, actually the storyfor the unfinished gift just
kind of dropped into my lap.
Uh, it just started popping into myhead, like, you know, I was seeing
it like, and I just was jottingit down and over about, I think
before the first, before New Year's.
(05:27):
I had, what, what I later would understandwas the synopsis written, because I
didn't know what to call it, but Iread this story idea to my wife and
she's like, oh my gosh, that's amazing.
You should write that.
So I did that over thenext, you know, year.
I was writing the unfinished gift inmy spare time when it was finished.
And of course back thenwe're talking 2008.
(05:48):
2008. There wasn't any,Amazon was nothing.
There was no Amazon.
There was no faith-based movies.
Everything that we now know and seemedpretty very familiar with was all
there was was fiction, and there wasbig, there was chain bookstores like
books, million and Barnes and Noble.
And if you wanted to buy a book, you wentto a store and you got it off the shelf.
And to get published, I foundout was very, very hard.
(06:11):
I mean, it was just like everythingI read and everybody I talked to
said, you know, be prepared fordrawers full of rejection letters.
Well, oddly enough that didn't happen.
I. I had a experience that, as I'vecome to know now, getting to know
hundreds of writers, nobody has astory like mine and people who hear
my story kind of tend to hate me.
Uh, 'cause I kind of didn't.
(06:32):
And you could say, pay my dues.
What wound up happening was I, I,I wrote this story, this Christmas
novel and went to Barnes and Nobleto find out how to polish it up and
get it ready to publish everything.
Told me you have to go to an an agent,you gotta have a literary agent.
You can't go directly a publisher.
So I looked into that.
Back then there was, America Online waskind of like, the internet may maybe old
(06:53):
enough to remember that you've got mail.
That was kind of the buzzword for
Oh yeah, yeah.
Back then a OL.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I remember.
phone modems.
It was super slow, Iwrote this novel, right?
And then I've spent all this timecleaning it up and I had no, I'd
never been to a conference, neverbeen to a critique group, never
met any other writers, really.
And I, from what I learned, thiswas how you approach agents.
(07:14):
So I sent these three packages, thefirst three agents on this list of
people who are told to me, these arethe A-listers in Christian fiction,
expecting course to be rejected.
And I was gonna make my waythrough the whole list until I,
you know, got to the blisters
Yeah, start at the top andthen work your way down.
I worked my way down and maybe some,maybe, well, the first three I got a
rejection letter, one, the other two bothcalled me and said, I love what you sent.
(07:39):
Wanna read the whole book?
One asked for the me to print itup and send it in a box, which
was what they did back then.
You actually would send themanuscript in a box The other one
was like, I can't wait for that.
I want you to send it to me overAmerica Online, which is phone modem.
So all night long it took, for one wordfile, just watch this little blue screen.
Oh my goodness.
(08:00):
like two and a half hoursfor one word file to get her.
If any moment left the call, I have
to start the thing over.
Well, she got it.
Read it the next day.
in one day.
It was a few hundred 50 page novel.
She read it one day.
You called me back up that night andsaid it was crying actually, you know,
she goes, I, I, I can sell this book,please don't sign with anyone else.
(08:20):
And I was actually thinking.
I hope she's legit 'cause she seemsa little desperate to, and so she,
I looked her up and I told her I'd,I'd get back with her the next day.
I went ahead and actually lookedher up again to make sure.
And sure enough she had, you know,she'd been at her for 15 years.
She was in New York City.
She had a, she was formerly asecular literary agent who'd
moved to Christian fiction.
Now had, you know, authors in bothsides, but she was trying, trying
(08:42):
to feature Christian fiction.
So I signed with her and sure enough, fiveweeks later she had a contract with one of
the big five Christian fiction publishers.
The next Christmas, I'm thereat Barnes and Noble with a
hardback book with my name on it.
My wife's taking my picture
Yeah, that's not everybody's journey.
Definitely not.
And that book Wound Up winning, uh,two Carol Awards, the best debut
(09:05):
author and best historical fiction,and was in all these magazines.
I'm getting interviews and they havea publicity staff and, and a whole
staff of people were promoting me.
They're spending thousands of dollars.
And then now the questionis, what else you got?
You know, book two.
I'm like, I don't have anything.
I wasn't thinking, if you had told methen you're gonna have 29, 30 books.
(09:25):
It's like, that's un, I didn'thave two, I didn't have three.
I was like, this was thebook I wrote to relax.
I wasn't thinking itwould become anything.
And so next thing you know, I'm,my wife and I are banging our heads
together about how we could writea sequel to the unfinished gift.
We came up with one, about50, 60 pages written.
They bought it.
That one came out.
That was the one that probably sort ofbegan to launch my, the direction for them
(09:47):
in terms of branding me because all themagazine and reviewers were calling me the
Nicholas Sparks of Christian Fiction, andI had never even read of a Nick Nicholas
Sparks book, but I went and saw someof his movies and I understood why I.
They were making those comparisons.
So that's what they said, that'syou're gonna be your brand So
for the next several years, upthrough 2015, I wrote 12 novels
with them under the sort of my name.
(10:08):
But they were like, you know, promotingme like Nicholas Sparks and hoping
that maybe some of the audience thatread his book would come my way.
And so that's what I did and, and Iwound up probably around the end of
2014, well, in 20 12, 20 13, that's whenI would say there's this major shakeup.
And Christian publishing and, and that'swhen Amazon, like a, like a tsunami came
(10:32):
in and just in effect ruined everythingthat was there before just wasteland.
Uh, publishers were going belly up.
Big publishers weremerging just to survive.
I, half of my author friendswere being dropped like a rock
because their publishing companycould only afford their contract.
Yeah, what happened?
That year, Amazon cameout with a Kindle at $99.
It was a number oneChristmas present in America.
(10:54):
Millions of people bought this Kindlefor $99 and all those people who
bought those Kindles stopped buyingprint books almost immediately.
So here you have all these publishers,like my publisher had, I dunno, I think
it was like 40,000 print run box boxesand boxes of books for the reunion, which
was my book that came out that fall.
Only half of the bookstores tookthe orders because everybody was
(11:18):
buying eBooks, and so everybody, notjust my publisher, all across the
publishing world, all were just tooka shellacking that year as they all
had to grapple with this new monster.
And Amazon only grew andits, you know, influence.
And so a couple more years working withmy publisher, I started to realize that.
as much as, as exciting as it wasworking with a publisher and all that,
(11:40):
it was also very confining because theyonly wanted me to stay in that very
narrow lane of the Nicholas Sparks guy.
There's all these other things Iwanted to write that they turned
down because it wasn't my brand.
So that's what made me, really madethe decision to go indie in 2015,
which has been a good move for me.
'cause I think my books are moredouble, triple in sales from when I was,
(12:01):
'cause half of my books are suspense,Christian suspense and the others are
like the Nicholas Sparks types book.
But also I, you know, I get to writewhat I want and there's nobody,
and even financially there's awhole lot less hands on the pie.
So it's been very good forus financially as well.
So that's.
So being able to go independent,like you started with the
(12:23):
publisher, which would you agree?
Did that help to build your audienceso that when you went independent,
then you were in a better positionthan someone who started independent?
I.
yes.
I would say definitely one.
The one challenge to that is if you thinkabout it by then, I had 12, actually, 13.
'cause I had one book with Guideposts.
I had 13 novels written.
(12:44):
I've talked to some of my good friendson the, in the indie publishing world
who have been very successful and Italked about for getting ready for
a conference to, I was speaking atthat everybody would assume because
I, my career as a traditional, thatI couldn't really speak to people
who are indie because I can't relate.
'cause I got, this, uh, big, huge audiencecame with the traditional success.
(13:07):
But when I talked to these writersthat I talked to, what they all had
in common, I asked them question,at what point could you leave
your day job and write full time?
And almost every one of 'em hadthe same answer when they had
about eight novels published.
And what it turned out to be, they hadlike two complete four book series.
So you think about it, They built theiraudience and they didn't have the fanfare.
(13:30):
I had, I had all this, youknow, publicity and things like
that that they didn't have.
But in terms of actually financialsuccess and building an audience,
I had 13 books and they had eight.
So it was really, I think the audience,what I, the lesson I learned from that was
a, you have to write books that readers.
Can't stop reading once they start.
(13:51):
I mean, you have to, the goal has to behoning the craft to where you write books
that readers just can't stop reading.
And if you do that, you learnhow to successfully write books
that people read to the end.
They're gonna read the next book and thenthey're gonna read the next book until
you run out book that you've written.
If you write a mediocre book, whichsadly there's many mediocre books being
written under the indie label, peopledon't stay with it and you don't.
(14:15):
The readers readership doesn't grow.
So I think readership growth,it was, they definitely helped.
But I think essentially re readershipgrowth is more about writing great
books and writing a lot sub them.
Having the patience to keep at ittill you've got enough books to
read where you can grow an audience.
makes sense.
Yeah.
So, okay, let's talk about howyou got then, moving toward the
(14:38):
film side, like whose idea was it?
How did it come about that Hey,let's make a book into a movie.
I was contacted my, many of your listenersprobably remember when the, when the movie
came out, the Christian movie came out.
God's not dead.
Yeah, probably a lot, dude.
It was like a $3 million budget,sold over 60 million in the theaters,
(14:58):
Yeah, it was huge.
In some ways, it openedthe door for so much more.
This happened because it, itcost all these people in the film
world to say, whoa, whoa, whoa.
3 million and 60 million.
And most of 'em had thoughtat, at, looked at faith-based
movies as, as flops, financially.
And so what happened was there's thisgroup of, of Christian directors,
producers, writers, they're in Hollywoodthat just kind of loosely connect.
(15:22):
And because they're, it's likeDaniel on the lines den, right?
They don't have very muchencouragement because they're
conservative and Christian.
So they would meet once a month and,uh, discuss and talk, well, that when
this that happened, this movie came out.
The topic of everybody's discussion was.
Maybe we should, you know, 'cause some,these guys had been working in film
for 20 years or more, but they alwaysmade movies that they didn't really
(15:42):
care about, that just made good money,kept them working, but they thought,
what wouldn't you like to end our lifemaking, doing something that matters?
I. and so they, they decided, let'spursue a project, a faith-based movie
project, and then they were on thehunt to find the book that would
become the story that they start with.
Well, out of the blue, as you know,just like sovereignty, I was, again,
you, what my tell you what happened?
(16:03):
It's not reproducible.
It's not like, well, this is what you do.
Follow these three things.
What happened was my churchsecretary for last 14 years,
loved my books big fan and her.
Godson was one of theseproducers in Hollywood.
He'd made 20 films, gave,gave you a list of films.
They're all these great big action films,like with Stallone and, but they were like
(16:23):
huge films with Millennium Productions.
And he was one of the guys.
And she said, ' hecalled her once a month.
Like he was more like, he was one of likehis mother, even though it was a godson.
He called once a month and she said.
He talked to her about that and shesaid, well, you, I've been telling you
about my pastor, and he writes thesegreat books and he was always, we talked
later, he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But to humor her, she said, okay, sendme a couple that you think are good
(16:46):
and I'll, I'll take a look at 'em.
She sends the reunionand the unfinished gift.
He called her back before the week wasover crying, having read the reunion
and said this book was, and he's nota crier, this is not a crying guy.
He hardly laughs out loud.
He's a very stoic kind of guy, but hewas just like, I have been affected this
deeply by story, and I, I passed it aroundto the guys and, and they're all the same.
(17:11):
This has gotta be the one, canyou find out if it's available?
Which was comical.
Is it available?
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
she said, well, I'm pretty sureit's available but I'll call.
So she called me excitedand said, what do you think?
I said, what do you meanwith Yeah, the answer is yes.
The only thing I'd be careful I don'tgive it away 'cause I'm so excited.
So anyways, that, that began, thissaga with the reunion, one of the guys,
(17:34):
Nick Lango, was one, one of these guys.
He wound up being the one that wasgonna write it for, for no, for no cost.
I just gave them, you know,we got an option contract.
He was gonna write the script at hisexpense just because he believed in
it and wanted to be a part of it.
Just so happens out of the blue, theyear after that, while he's working
on the script and we're talking andinteracting a lot, his story, the Green
(17:56):
Book gets picked up by, I think it was, I.
Warner Brothers, one of the big ones, gotpicked up and they wanted, they wanted
to turn it into a major production, andhad two other writer involved with him.
They turned this story into a script.
They wound up making it for 23 million.
It was one of those sleeper hits, and in2018, it wound up just being a major hit.
It made it for 23 million.
(18:17):
It wound up winning the GoldenGlobes, like three Gold Globes, and
it got Oscar nominations, and thenit wound up winning the Oscar for
best picture and best screenplay.
So all of a sudden he Nick's comingback to me saying, I think we need
reunion on hold and let this thingride this wave, how far it goes,
because I think it's gonna open a lotof doors for the reunion later on.
And I'm like, sure, whatever you guysthink, you know, and I'm just, you know,
(18:40):
writing keep on writing new books and.
Well, what wound up happening, and thisis what began this like seven years ago,
nobody could predict in that span time,it was like when he was finally ready and
all that success after Green Book, he waslike, he was shopping this story to like
a-list actors like I just, Sam Elliot,all these different people who we never
would've gotten the time to look at this.
(19:01):
We're all like, anythingyou're doing I wanna read.
And so they wound up signing adeal with a distribution company.
I'm not gonna name names because.
COVID hit and all of Hollywoodwent, you know, shut down.
And right at the height of all thismomentum, all the air got let outta the
balloon and it came kind of crashing down.
(19:21):
And nothing, there was nothing happening.
But unfortunately before that allhappened, but had gotten legally
contracted with distributor who onthe other end of Covid didn't survive.
One chapter 11 and the bankrupt,and it caused the reunion project
to get stuck in this legal thatwent on for a couple more years.
I kind of got to be like six years.
(19:43):
I figured, well, you know, maybeit's just not gonna happen, you know?
'cause it's like this stuckin this legal thing and no.
Well, out of the blue last AugustI get contacted by the two guys.
A pretty excited Nick and, and Frankand 'cause they had been, uh, working
with, and, and the guys that, uh, fromthe Reagan project who knew about the
reunion project and loved the story.
(20:03):
They found out that it was stuck likethat, and they decided this story
needs to be told and we're gonna,we'll work with us, we'll buy it,
free it from the, and create a newLLC and launch it in, into a new
direction free of all the entanglements.
and so I got the next thing I knowI'm, while I'm s funny, while I'm
watching Reagan in the theater, theguys that I'm talking with on Facebook
message are up there on the credits asthe credits were rolling afterwards.
(20:27):
It was pretty cool.
So, and the way they were talking aboutthe reunion was like, this is a, like
one of the best stories I've ever.
We, we couldn't let this thing sit there.
We ha we're gonna make this movie.
They have one more movie that they'regonna make, that they're committed to.
Between Reagan and mine, butmine's gonna be the one after
that that they're gonna work on.
It's obviously, uh, in goodhands, let's put it that way.
(20:48):
You know, it's, it, it, I justgave it new life and it seemed
like it was all completely dead.
There's obviously another tale,very different tale with unfinished
gift, the ones being made by my son.
I dunno if you have the time to get intothat or wanna take that another time,
Yeah, let's take that.
How about, let's get into that one in ourfollow-up interview, but before we finish
(21:09):
out this interview, I'm kind of piecingtogether a little bit of a, a theme and
I. You know, something that I think is,is very valuable that, that God is doing
and, and showing through your life.
One is he can make up time, you know, likeyou set writing aside for quite a long
time and then you came back and pickedit up, and then it just, it, just went.
(21:34):
Like all the doors were open for you.
And so I just wanna say for anybody outthere that had to set their dream aside
because they were serving God for a time,he's able to open those doors faster
than you could have on your own anyways.
And then second, I. It, it is one of thosethings that like when God says yes, like
it doesn't have to look the way that itwould for anybody else, because honestly,
(21:58):
there are not very many people thatwould be able to relate to your story.
Where everybody's like,Hey, are you available?
Let's, let's get this published andlet's, like, usually you do have to
go through a lot more rejection or youhave to be the one to pitch the story.
It's not very often that you wouldbe hunted down for a story, so.
It's an amazing journey that you have suchan incredible testimony and so it, yeah.
(22:21):
I'm excited to see these projectswhen they get made, and I'm very
interested in learning more aboutyour books, but as we finish this
portion, is there anything that youwould like to share with our audience?
Well, I guess the thing that I amconcerned that hearing my story.
It can seem like, okay, wellthat's like lightning strike.
(22:42):
What can I take away from that?
But it would really be what the wayyou summarized it pretty well, God is
sovereign and it's kind of almost likeseek first the kingdom of God and all
these things will be added to you.
I think we can get soobsessed with our part.
We don't realize our part at best.
That's what, what, what's needing isthis crowd to be fed and all we have
(23:05):
is five loaves and two fishes and,and we're trying to work that as best
we can and make it look as good aswe can and do everything we can in
the effort that we we're all, we'reall focused on our effort and we can
lose sight of the fact that what'sreally need is so much bigger than us.
And that we have to start, Iwould say putting more accent,
more emphasis on the prayer side.
(23:26):
The, the waiting on God's side.
The trusting in God'sside than the effort.
'cause what, that's what we can, I get,I gets obsessed about, so they're trying
to gotta try that, gotta try this.
And I'm not saying effort's not matter.
Obviously there's five loaves anddo fish then they're necessary.
But the real big thing is gonna turnout to be God in his sovereign way,
(23:49):
doing things that we can't controland that that's really is my story.
Even when you hear the next part of thestory, even though it's very different
path, it's very much the same theme.
So thank you for being onthis part of the podcast.
I'm looking forward to the next episode.
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Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial
Introducing… Aubrey O’Day Diddy’s former protege, television personality, platinum selling music artist, Danity Kane alum Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and TJ Holmes to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Join them throughout the trial as they discuss, debate, and dissect every detail, every aspect of the proceedings. Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise, as only she is qualified to do given her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band, as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be the opposite of the glitz and glamour. Listen throughout every minute of the trial, for this exclusive coverage. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, an iHeartRadio podcast.
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