July 16, 2025 • 28 mins
Episode 167 - Make it Yourself: Success as an Indie Creator
In this episode of the Faith and Family Filmmakers podcast, Matt Chastain interviews Kristen Collier, an animator who transitioned from a career in literature to animation during the pandemic lockdown. Kristen shares her journey of self-learning animation to bring her husband's characters to life, discussing the challenges, successes, and the creation of their children's cartoons, including a collaboration with prominent actors like Corbin Bernson. The discussion highlights the importance of independent innovation in the film industry. They emphasize the value of perseverance, learning new skills, and making things happen instead of waiting to be discovered.
Highlights Include:
- Kristen's Journey to Animation
- Early Animation Projects
- Challenges and Learning Curves
- Michigan Christian Filmmakers and Creative Motion Network
- Creating Roku Channels
- Developing Benny the Barnacle
- Animation Techniques and Software
- Overcoming Imposter Syndrome
- Advice for Independent Creators
Bio:
Kristen Collier has a B.A. in English Literature. She learned animation during the lockdown at age 51 and now has cartoons that have major distribution and are on streaming platforms. Her first love is books, and so she's most excited these days about her supernatural thriller, "King of Glory," a Peretti-esque love story about the Second Coming.
Kristen’s Links:
https://www.collieranimationstudio.com/
https://www.amazon.com/King-Glory-Kristen-Collier-ebook/dp/B00AKFOL2I
https://www.instagram.com/collieranimationstudio/
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556786981441
Editing by Michael Roth
Faith and Family Filmmakers Bootcamp: https://www.faffassociation.com/filmmakers-bootcamp
FAFF Association Online Meetups: https://faffassociation.com/#faff-meetings
Screenwriters Retreat - Mexico: https://www.faffassociation.com/writers-retreat
Jaclyn's Book - In the Beginning, Middle and End: A Screenwriter’s Observations of LIfe, Character, and God: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D9R7XS9V
Producers Mentorship Program https://www.faffassociation.com/vip-producers-mentorship
The Faith & Family Filmmakers podcast helps filmmakers who share a Christian worldview stay in touch, informed, and inspired. Releasing new episodes every week, we interview experts from varying fields of filmmaking; from screenwriters, actors, directors, and producers, to film scorers, talent agents, and distributors.
It is produced and hosted by Geoffrey Whitt and Jaclyn Whitt , and is brought to you by the Faith & Family Filmmakers Association
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matt (00:00):
Well, hey everybody.
Welcome to another episode of Faith and Family Filmmakers podcast.
I am your host Matt Chastain, as I think they said in the intro just a minuteago, but we're gonna have a quite an animated episode today, pun is intended.
We have Kristen Collier today who is an animator.
Kristen, I just wanna thank you for taking some time to bewith us today on the Faith and Family Filmmaker Podcast.
Kristen (00:21):
Well, thank you Matt.
I'm thrilled to be here and to meet you and to hear.
Actually, I'm super excited about your projects.
Uh, you're doing some incredible work for Gods.
I love your film.
Watched it.
Very excited to watch it again.
Yes,
Matt (00:35):
Well, thank you.
that's, that's, that's great to hear.
It's always great when filmmakers can get together and appreciate each other's work.
And it's an honor to hear that.
I'm gonna go ahead and go into your.
Bio so people get to know who you are and what you've done.
'cause I think what you've done here is it's so cool and soamazing and I think it's something that we can all learn from.
So you got a BA in English literature, but during the pandemic, during the lockdown atage 51, you, decided, hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna train myself in a completely new skill.
(01:01):
I'm gonna become an animator.
Uh, now you have cartoons that have major distribution on streaming platforms.
Your first love, obviously is books.
You're an author and you're excited these days about your upcoming Supernatural, not upcoming.
It's out right near your thriller called Kings ofGlory, which is a love story about the second coming.
So I definitely want to get into that.
But, uh, you know, I wanna start off by, you know, talkingabout how you became an animator during the lockdown.
(01:27):
I think all I did was.
Trim the shrubs beside my house and cut the grass.
I didn't do anything productive.
I should have done more productive.
You actually got out and learned how to animate.
So tell me how, how did that go?
Kristen (01:37):
Well, basically at that point I was determined that my husband's characters were going to be cartoons, even if I had to learn animation myself, and I was admittedly a poser when I learned it.
I had no in.
Interest in really learning animation.
I just thought, okay, I'll learn a little bit.
I'll do a little bit here and there, and then eventually.
I'll get the character's licensed with some big studiothat will then take it over and make the cartoons.
(02:01):
I never dreamed I'd actually have to put the time in to learn it myself, and I did it.
And the backstory is that I wrote King of Glory before Kevin and I got married.
And then when we got married, Kevin was a children's author, solike 18 years ago, he was a children's author and an illustrator, and I also wrote a children's picture book about the second coming.
(02:24):
And so when.
We were married, we got a show that was produced by a Christian cable TV network.
We produced 26 episodes.
Well, actually we didn't produce the episodes.
We wrote all the scripts and we wrote all the storiesthat go with them, and the live action was shot elsewhere.
And so it was the equivalent of about 40 picture books withall of the art for the stories that went with them.
(02:51):
and it was twice six episodes.
So due to issues on their end, they ended up scrapping it.
So we were sitting on seriously the equivalent of 40 picture books.
It was a mountain of work and we were devastated and we're like,what are we gonna do with all of this art and these stories?
And they were based on Kevin's unders sea characters.
(03:12):
So then after that we bought Adobe Premier and we proceeded to learn video editing.
And we just got the premier elements, the very basicstripped down version for like a hundred dollars.
And it worked just fine.
And so we learned video editing, took some time, made storybook videos, and triedto kinda give those away like just to different entities that would want to.
(03:36):
Host them or whatever, or you know, we made a couple of books out of those, but we had previouslybooks as well that were picture books and chapter books, Disney Plus scouted the characters.
But as you know, they don't take morals based characters, even though they reallyliked Kevin's artwork and said you know, it was really good and everything, and
Matt (03:56):
I would argue that Disney does have their own set of morals.
It just may not align with ours.
Kristen (04:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And what's crazy is that I heard it from an insider that it iskilling them, that their most popular show, bluey, they don't own.
I just heard this like a week ago, so
Matt (04:14):
I love Bluey Blue's.
Great.
Yeah.
By the way, I should also say that the opinions of the host do not necessarily reflectthose of Faith and Family Filmmakers podcast, and certainly not of Jeff and Jaclyn.
I have to put that in there every time I open my dumb mouth.
Kristen (04:27):
Yeah.
Well, and you know, at Disney they definitely have their issues,but when you look at everything they're releasing, like there's nothing new and people are slamming them because there's nothing new.
It's all a rehash of everything they've done for the past 20 years.
So people want something new.
So basically over the years we just kept trying to pursue things and move on andget the characters out there In, I think it was 2018, we connected, I'm in Michigan.
(04:52):
We connected with the Michigan Christian filmmakers and there's a lot of them here in Michigan.
Wonderful people.
And so we started the Michigan Christian Talent Network, which we're no longer really.
Connected to, because it was a Facebook group and there was a lotof people in it, but we got locked out of our Facebook account.
It was hacked, and so we just don't even have access to that.
But anyhow, we got connected to a lot of Michigan Christianfilmmakers, and at the time I was a church secretary.
(05:19):
We said, Hey, you know what?
Let's make a newsletter to help the Christian filmmakersget better connected to help them promote their projects.
And then we thought, Hey, you know what?
Let's make it into like a nice magazine, which we did called Creative Motion Magazine.
But we also included people from really all over the country and all over the world.
So we wrote articles about other.
(05:41):
Just films and like Vindication, which I know you're a writer on, and all thereally cool Christians out there who are making films and actors and everything.
And then my husband wanted to take to the next step.
He said, you know what?
Let's put it online and make a creative motion online so thatwe can be more updated rather than a magazine, which we did that.
(06:02):
And then his ultimate goal was to make a Roku channel, whichI forgot to mention that after this whole thing with our show.
Being thrown to the garbage.
We made a Roku channel, I think it was around, around maybe 2013, calledthe Christ Clubhouse Channel, and that was when Roku was really first getting going and there weren't many Christian Roku channels out there.
(06:26):
And so.
We had about over 20,000 subscribers.
But at that point, like after a year, I didn't know how toget advertisers and I didn't wanna spend any more money on it.
And I thought, well, if this is something God wants usto do, then he would provide the means for us to do it.
And I just didn't feel like we should spend our own money anymore, andso we shut it down, even though it was a fairly decent sized channel.
(06:51):
So then we got involved with the Michigan Christian filmmakers, and then we eventually thenstarted the Creative Motion Network, which was a Roku channel, and it was, it was like a cutting edge indie Christian Roku channel where we hosted people like Deanna Lane Heard.
Awesome Mod Wash Moments show and others, and a lot ofshort films and that sort of thing, and a lot of talk shows.
(07:14):
And we had that for a couple years, but then when all thewoke stuff was going on, we got de platformed because.
Some of the talk show hosts on there were very traditional Christians, which, youknow, back then you would get de platformed for being a very traditional Christian.
And that was, I think about three years ago.
And I was actually happy about that because it was a lotof work for my husband, but we also got connected to some.
(07:39):
Awesome people.
Like I did a show called Keeping Up with the Christians, where I interviewed peoplelike Todd Terry and Venus Monique from Vindication, Josh Murray, uh, Jerry Dalala.
Who, Christopher Sean Shaw has, he's done short with, uh, Josh and Jerry,and just some really wonderful people that we got to be friends with.
(07:59):
But when that shut down, I was actually glad because then it allowed us to focus on.
My husband's true gift, and that is his cartoon characters.
So by that point, after about 18 years, I was determined.
And so when the lockdown hit, I, I believe in being a submissive wife.
I believe it's scriptural.
(08:20):
And so I asked my husband if I could get the animation software, and he said yes.
And so I researched.
Very methodically during the lockdown, the software, and Igot Cartoon Animator, which is a very economical software.
It's, it was only like $150 and, and user friendly, super easy.
You don't have to be an artist to use it because it has a lot of templates.
(08:43):
So I bought the software and.
Watch their YouTube tutorials during the lockdown to learn animation.
But I have to say that I was, I, I did learn a little bit of animation, but it wasn'tlike, like I said, in my mind, I was a poser, admittedly so, and I wasn't embarrassed about that because I really had no intention of ever actually learning animation.
(09:05):
I didn't even really want to, I was just hoping that, you know, Icould do a little bit and my husband's characters would get discovered.
Licensed and then somebody else would do the work.
So that was what I was kind of hoping for.
And so I just spent a few months learning that.
But also at that time, uh, we had become friends with so many of the wonderful Christian actors,like the people I mentioned, but also Robert Shepherd, who was involved with so many great projects.
(09:31):
And a lot of these people were in our first cartoon, which is called Betty the Barnacle.
And.
We had wanted to get some notable names in there.
So through Friends, we reached out to Corbin Burson's agent, and he agreed to come on for that.
And for those who don't know, Corbin Burnson startedin LA Law and Psych, he played the dad in Psych.
(09:56):
And so he agreed to be in that.
I also reached out to on Facebook, Marta, Kristin, who is Judy on LostIn Space, and, uh, Lou Graham, who was the lead singer of Foreigner, and he was just inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame last year.
And so we got all of these people to be in the first cartoon called Bennie the Barnacle.
Now, I have to preface this by saying that this is before I'd ever.
(10:18):
Ever done any animation, like more than just a couple of short things.
So here it is, and I have these wonderful, famous people in my cartoonand I don't even really know how to animate, and I was so intimidated.
I thought, I can't let these people down.
They are so talented and so sweet, and they're Christianand so wonderful for agreeing to be in this cartoon.
(10:41):
I'm like, I can't let these people down, so I have to really make this cartoon as good as possible.
Extremely intimidated.
So that was like, let's see, 20, 20, around the fall and winter whenall this kind of came, came together when we got these people lined up.
And then I just kind of made a few other short cartoons with.
(11:04):
An octopus, a red cyclops octopus named Blink, and thisended up being our main cartoon, which I can get into that.
But basically I made a short cartoon with Blink, and then onecalled Whispering Wally, which is a whale that whispers because.
Uh, the most important things he has to say, he says, with the whisper.
(11:24):
And so I did these over the next few months until the next year, I'd say like 2021.
I focused on those cartoons to actually learn animation.
So I did those and ended up getting a mainstream Well, okay.
Actually, got a small distributor for those cartoons andthen I was still learning, really learning how to animate.
(11:47):
And so I then returned back to Benny the Barnacle now that I learned a little bitwith these first few, and this was in like 2021, I guess like the spring of 2021.
I really spent a lot of time learning animation.
Like one example, there's a character named Killer the Krill, and he's, he isBenny's sidekick and best friend and he is actually voiced by Jose Carlos Gutierrez.
(12:12):
Who is president of Comics 34 Next Generation, whichis the biggest Christian comics ministry in the world.
And he's based in Mexico City.
So it's cool because he is, you know, he is from Mexico.
So the character has a cool Mexican accent and also speaks a couple wordsin Spanish, which is hilarious and that makes it more fun in the cartoon.
(12:33):
So I'm learning this animation and there's one scene where Killer, the Krill.
Is just sitting there eating kelp, a piece of kelp.
And on my software, cartoon Animator, I'll make the clips in CartoonAnimator and then I put 'em into Premier to paste everything together.
'cause you can't make a whole cartoon in the software.
It's just, it's too big.
(12:54):
You can usually, usually you just make really short clips ofa few seconds and then paste it into Premier to edit together.
So in Premier.
The cartoon I could see was glitching, a little tiny piece of kelp or, yeah,seaweed out of his mouth kept glitchy, like it was like flashing on and off.
And in the software I couldn't see.
(13:16):
I'm like, what is this?
Why is this happening?
Because I had a bunch of layers.
It's kind like in premier when.
Matt (13:22):
Mm-hmm.
Kristen (13:23):
Take down the visibility of something to make it disappear, and you make a cut and then you bring it up again to make it flash.
It's the same thing with the animation.
I had several pieces of the seaweed that was in his mouth, and I would take down thevisibility, like put it to zero and then turn it back up to make it look like he was chewing it.
(13:44):
But I had multiple layers of the seaweed, so itreally looked like his mouth was full and it was tiny.
Super tiny.
Because he's just in the distance sitting on a rock.
And so I could not, for the life of me, find out why is this flashing?
It's not supposed to do that.
It's a glitch.
It looks bad and in the software you could not see it.
(14:05):
It did not show up.
So it, but it did show up.
This glitch in Premiere and I spent two whole days just trying to find that glitch I said.
You know what if, if my name's on this, but also these famous peoplewho I really respect, I'm not gonna ignore this and let a glitch go by.
So I spent two days trying to find that glitch.
It was so hard to do.
(14:27):
So I found it and I just kept working on the cartoon and itended up being a 24 minute cartoon, like a short feature.
And it's now on Tubi and I'm still really proud of that.
And it came on Tubi two years ago.
We have a small distributor for that.
And it premiered on there, and I'm really pleased with thatbecause Film Threat gave that cartoon a seven and film threat.
(14:51):
I really respect them.
They're very harsh film critics.
They're indie film critics, and I really respect Chris Gore as a film critic.
I think he is an excellent film critic.
And by comparison, that same year, the Disney cartoon that came out that year, they gave a three.
So I really respect that.
We got that cartoon got a seven and another, yeah, another reviewerwho is a mainstream non-Christian reviewer, said that that cartoon has the ability to reach the mainstream regardless of your faith.
(15:22):
And so that was our goal, to have these cartoons be able to reach the mainstream.
Cheryl Felicia Rhodes, who is, well known at Christian Films.
She referred me to a friend and I can't think of his nameright now, but he worked, he did VFX for Mission to Mars.
So he is an animator and we got a quote from him years ago when Creative Motion was amagazine and he said, Christians don't have the desire to compete in the mainstream.
(15:46):
And I thought, well, you know what I do because I want tocreate excellent work because that's what we're called to do.
And like there's a quote from Martin Luther, he says.
Don't preach, but make an excellent shoe.
Something to that effect.
So I was, I'm Lutheran and I was raised to pursue excellence because it glorifies God.
So that's why I spent two days just to find a glitch and alittle tiny piece of seaweed that only appears for a second.
(16:12):
So when the cartoon came out and we got that great review fromFilm Threat, that was only last year actually, that we got that.
And it got on Tubi.
And I mean, I know I'm not a Disney level animator,but I did the best I could and I felt good about that.
And I felt like, okay, I did what I could.
And Corbin Bernson and the others, I felt like I didnot embarrass them by having their name be part of it.
(16:37):
And turns out that Corbin actually liked the characterso much he agreed to stay on as executive producer.
Matt (16:43):
Wow.
Kristen (16:45):
For the series pilot, which was a half hour pilot that I made.
In the first cartoon, Bennie the Barnacle, the feature.
He played Wallace, the great blue Whale and he was a blind whale.
And this is a quote he said.
With all the projects that come my way while I give each one my best110% effort, I often lose sight of the scripts that really touch me be.
(17:07):
Bennie the Barnacle was one project that has never left my mind, or I have forgottenmy gratitude for being a part of it, and hopefully future part of this great adventure.
So.
The fact that Corbin then agreed to stay on as executive producer the halfhour pilot that I made afterwards, that to me was a really nice feeling.
Matt (17:28):
Well, yeah.
I was gonna ask you, uh, this, I'm gonna get nerdy now, but was it a frame rate issue?
Kristen (17:32):
No, it's just the software.
It's the craziest thing in the software.
Like, sometimes you just can't see something, like, another example, you know how when you, downloada transparent p and g and you open it up in Photoshop and you see the black and white little squares
Matt (17:48):
it is not really, not really transparent.
They're lying to
Kristen (17:51):
Right, right.
Yeah.
So you see there's another cartoon I make for Cherry, theResurrection Rabbit, which it's kind of like Alvin and the Chipmunks.
They're singing bunny cartoons.
They're hilarious.
And it's for charity, children's charity called Cherry, the Resurrection Rabbit.
Well, I made one cartoon for the bunny there was one, an image of a circus that I downloaded.
(18:11):
And in the software all you could see was the circus.
But then when I saved it and it ended up getting onto Tubi, you could see the.
grey and white checker background of the p and g, and it's because I didn't put an addition, awhite background behind it in the animation software, and you couldn't see it in Premier either.
And I, oh, it just killed me.
(18:31):
But nobody's gonna, I mean, it's just there for a second and nobody's gonna know.
But at this point, I mean, I can't change that at
Matt (18:37):
Well, those are the kinds of Easter eggs that if people notice, that means they're really watching your content pretty intently, which that's a good thing if you, if you can find that kind of an error uh, in something I've done.
Awesome.
That means you've really paid attention.
Well, I, I wanna go back real quick to this.
When you were talking about the poser mentality, I think a, that's somethingthat I think a lot of people listening to this are gonna relate to pretty well.
(19:00):
'cause we've all felt that way as we get into a new industry that we may not understand,unless you're already part of a giant system, which a lot of us in the indie world are not.
Then you're, you're having to figure things out as you go.
Everybody is, and, and we all kind of have that imposter syndrome at some point.
And I think the, the trick is to push through that.
It's cognitive dissonance.
(19:20):
Just go through the pain and keep going.
I'm reminded of a conversation I once had with Steven Kendrick.
And he was telling me that at, you know, when they first made their first movie, it was his brotherwho was the creative, he was the writer, he was the director, Stephen, just, he was a business guy.
And he said, all I knew is I was gonna put the business part of it together.
And somebody after they made the movie, somebody said, oh, you're the producer.
(19:41):
He goes, I don't know what a producer does.
Well, that's, that's what that is what a producer does, handles the business of the movie.
So, you know, it's, if you'd have said, Steven, I need you to be the producer.
Before that, he'd have gone, I don't know what that is.
I'm a poser.
But all he did was the job that instinctively he, knew how to do, and that'smanage the business of a production and just kind of figure it out as you go.
(20:02):
So you were doing exactly what successful independent artists do.
Kristen (20:07):
And I have to just say this before I address that, is that really quick, the gray white checkers on the transparent PNG that I was talking about didn't show up in the animation software.
So that's what killed me, is that I couldn't see the glitch in the software.
And it was the same thing with the seaweeds.
So it was.
So hard to fix.
But yeah, getting back to the poser mentality, what's funny is that I didn't really care.
(20:30):
I mean, I wasn't embarrassed about feeling that way because when Kevin and Ifirst got married, we were just focused on books before we got involved with tv.
A lot of the authors that we would come across in our different writers'groups, they like, I saw a lot of jealousies, mostly from the wives who were jealous of their more successful husbands, and I thought, this is crazy.
(20:51):
I would be, I mean, I am.
Super proud of Kevin like been called The next CS Lewis, the publisher that discovered himsaid he would quote, set the standard for children's literature for generations to come and.
Matt (21:05):
That is a pretty high comparison.
A high bar
right there.
Kristen (21:08):
And this publisher was a, genius known for being a genius in the field of creativity.
Like he signed, when he met Kevin, he immediately signed himto a multi-book deal and said, don't show your work to anybody.
'cause we don't want anybody to impact your writing style.
And so Kevin has one like.
Writing awards, best youth fiction.
His first book was called A Masterpiece of Communication and he is illustratedhundreds of books and been an illustrator for cable TV and streaming.
(21:36):
So, but I was never jealous of him.
I was always like, he would always say I'm embarrassing himwhen I talk about his work, but I'm like his biggest fan.
And also with having an English literature degree, even before I married him, I knew this.
Guy is a special writer.
Like he is a great literary writer.
So I knew that as well before I even met him.
(21:58):
So I was never jealous.
But I saw so many in the writers groups, I really noticed it a lot that thewomen authors were jealous of their husbands who had were more successful.
I thought, that's crazy.
You should be excited for your husband.
So getting back to the poser mentality.
I didn't care that I didn't want to be a real animator because that was never my dream.
(22:20):
My dream was for Kevin's characters to get out there and be discovered, and in my mind, Iwas an author and my focus was my book King of Glory, which is about the second coming.
So it wasn't like I felt intimidated or jealous, I just didn'tcare because it wasn't like my identity of being an animator.
I got a really nice compliment from the guy who is the community managerfor Reallusion, which is a software company, and he gave me a wonderful compliment about my animation recently, and it's on my LinkedIn page.
(22:53):
I don't have it right off the top of my head, but it just stunnedme the comments that he said about, you know, my artistry.
I'm like, wow, this is amazing.
guess my point, like the whole takeaway that I would say to people listening to this is go for it.
Go bully like you never have before and make it yourself.
(23:14):
And that's the biggest message I would have for anybody listening to this.
Make it yourself and take the time to learn the skills like, 'causeI see so many people, wonderful Christian filmmakers, that they spend years trying to get money and they're always doing pitches and.
I see some of the projects they wanna do, and it's like, wow, this is such a great idea.
(23:37):
Make it yourself and just do what you can with what you have at the moment.
Because what I've seen with the creativity that I put into these cartoons,like as a woman, I put different things in there than man would do.
I add a lot of pinks and purples and colors that appeal to girls, andI'm mindful of that and I add a little more emotion to the cartoons.
(24:00):
By having some slow pauses and the slow panning into the eyes, that sort of thing.
And the men, I think, are more action oriented.
So I add a little more of the emotion and things that wouldappeal to girls where a male animator isn't gonna do that.
And also like some crazy artistic things that I'vedone with these cartoons like I just did last week.
(24:23):
One for Cherry, the Resurrection Rabbit.
Cherry is, it's a children's charity that helps abuse children.
Started by a lady that started it as like, she had a puppet, like she does ventriloquismwell, and she sings and she's got wonderful songs like she's been to seminary.
So her songs are very theologically rich and they're professionally produced in Nashville.
(24:45):
They're bluegrass songs.
And it sounds like Alvin, the Chipmunks and they're hilarious.
So she has books and many DVDs.
So actually three years ago now, I got connected through JackFoster, the Illustrator, and I started making cartoons for Cherry.
And she's got a. Musical half hour musical on Tubi called BluegrassBunny, the Musical, and other cartoons on Tubi that I made.
(25:11):
Well, I just made one last week.
It's called One Way Street, and it's about how I'm ona one way street and I'm not gonna turn away from God.
Well, I Googled like beautiful streets, and turns out there'sa lot of beautiful streets in the Amalfi coast in Italy.
So I got all these pictures that I downloaded of streets in Amalfi.
(25:33):
So here's this bluegrass bunny in the Amalfi coast at a Carrot mobile singing thissong and going through all these hairpin turns in the mounds and it's hilarious.
And that comes out, I think, on the 21st.
It comes out like in a few weeks.
Matt (25:47):
Okay.
I, I wanna stop there just because I, I think I want to kind of go reiterate the point.
Of, I think this episode, the lesson of this episode, we're gonna bringyou back for another episode 'cause we have a ton more to talk about.
We're running outta time in this episode, but for me that is the key.
I think so many independants, we're out there going, I just need to be discovered.
I just need the right giant system to come and
(26:08):
incorporate me.
But the problem with that is what, what did we, what did you say about Disney at the very beginning?
These, giant systems are two giant for innovation.
Innovation doesn't come from giant corporations.
It never has.
Innovation comes from independence.
Who grow their innovation so beautifully because of how innovative and,and new and creative it is to the point that then the giant corporations have to come get involved and buy you, or, or distributor your whatever.
(26:35):
But, like you said, do it yourself, even if it's a little more low budget, great ideasand great creative shine through, you know, sometimes a lack of resources and production.
So that's the big lesson for this one and the lesson that you have lived out.
So congratulations.
For that.
So Kristen Collier, I, I do wanna thank you for being on this episode of the Faith andFamily Film Makers podcast, but as you guys can tell, she's just now getting going.
(27:00):
So you're gonna want us to tune into the next episode as we bring Kristen back.
But Kristen, thanks so much for joining us today.
I'm inspired, I'm ready to go, and I can't wait to talk to you from the next episode.
Kristen (27:10):
Thank you so much, Matt.
It's been a huge blessing to talk.
You.
Well, hey everybody.
Welcome to another episode of Faith and Family Filmmakers podcast.
I am your host Matt Chastain, as I think they said in the intro just a minuteago, but we're gonna have a quite an animated episode today, pun is intended.
We have Kristen Collier today who is an animator.
Kristen, I just wanna thank you for taking some time to bewith us today on the Faith and Family Filmmaker Podcast.
Kristen (00:21):
Well, thank you Matt.
I'm thrilled to be here and to meet you and to hear.
Actually, I'm super excited about your projects.
Uh, you're doing some incredible work for Gods.
I love your film.
Watched it.
Very excited to watch it again.
Yes,
Matt (00:35):
Well, thank you.
that's, that's, that's great to hear.
It's always great when filmmakers can get together and appreciate each other's work.
And it's an honor to hear that.
I'm gonna go ahead and go into your.
Bio so people get to know who you are and what you've done.
'cause I think what you've done here is it's so cool and soamazing and I think it's something that we can all learn from.
So you got a BA in English literature, but during the pandemic, during the lockdown atage 51, you, decided, hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna train myself in a completely new skill.
(01:01):
I'm gonna become an animator.
Uh, now you have cartoons that have major distribution on streaming platforms.
Your first love, obviously is books.
You're an author and you're excited these days about your upcoming Supernatural, not upcoming.
It's out right near your thriller called Kings ofGlory, which is a love story about the second coming.
So I definitely want to get into that.
But, uh, you know, I wanna start off by, you know, talkingabout how you became an animator during the lockdown.
(01:27):
I think all I did was.
Trim the shrubs beside my house and cut the grass.
I didn't do anything productive.
I should have done more productive.
You actually got out and learned how to animate.
So tell me how, how did that go?
Kristen (01:37):
Well, basically at that point I was determined that my husband's characters were going to be cartoons, even if I had to learn animation myself, and I was admittedly a poser when I learned it.
I had no in.
Interest in really learning animation.
I just thought, okay, I'll learn a little bit.
I'll do a little bit here and there, and then eventually.
I'll get the character's licensed with some big studiothat will then take it over and make the cartoons.
(02:01):
I never dreamed I'd actually have to put the time in to learn it myself, and I did it.
And the backstory is that I wrote King of Glory before Kevin and I got married.
And then when we got married, Kevin was a children's author, solike 18 years ago, he was a children's author and an illustrator, and I also wrote a children's picture book about the second coming.
(02:24):
And so when.
We were married, we got a show that was produced by a Christian cable TV network.
We produced 26 episodes.
Well, actually we didn't produce the episodes.
We wrote all the scripts and we wrote all the storiesthat go with them, and the live action was shot elsewhere.
And so it was the equivalent of about 40 picture books withall of the art for the stories that went with them.
(02:51):
and it was twice six episodes.
So due to issues on their end, they ended up scrapping it.
So we were sitting on seriously the equivalent of 40 picture books.
It was a mountain of work and we were devastated and we're like,what are we gonna do with all of this art and these stories?
And they were based on Kevin's unders sea characters.
(03:12):
So then after that we bought Adobe Premier and we proceeded to learn video editing.
And we just got the premier elements, the very basicstripped down version for like a hundred dollars.
And it worked just fine.
And so we learned video editing, took some time, made storybook videos, and triedto kinda give those away like just to different entities that would want to.
(03:36):
Host them or whatever, or you know, we made a couple of books out of those, but we had previouslybooks as well that were picture books and chapter books, Disney Plus scouted the characters.
But as you know, they don't take morals based characters, even though they reallyliked Kevin's artwork and said you know, it was really good and everything, and
Matt (03:56):
I would argue that Disney does have their own set of morals.
It just may not align with ours.
Kristen (04:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And what's crazy is that I heard it from an insider that it iskilling them, that their most popular show, bluey, they don't own.
I just heard this like a week ago, so
Matt (04:14):
I love Bluey Blue's.
Great.
Yeah.
By the way, I should also say that the opinions of the host do not necessarily reflectthose of Faith and Family Filmmakers podcast, and certainly not of Jeff and Jaclyn.
I have to put that in there every time I open my dumb mouth.
Kristen (04:27):
Yeah.
Well, and you know, at Disney they definitely have their issues,but when you look at everything they're releasing, like there's nothing new and people are slamming them because there's nothing new.
It's all a rehash of everything they've done for the past 20 years.
So people want something new.
So basically over the years we just kept trying to pursue things and move on andget the characters out there In, I think it was 2018, we connected, I'm in Michigan.
(04:52):
We connected with the Michigan Christian filmmakers and there's a lot of them here in Michigan.
Wonderful people.
And so we started the Michigan Christian Talent Network, which we're no longer really.
Connected to, because it was a Facebook group and there was a lotof people in it, but we got locked out of our Facebook account.
It was hacked, and so we just don't even have access to that.
But anyhow, we got connected to a lot of Michigan Christianfilmmakers, and at the time I was a church secretary.
(05:19):
We said, Hey, you know what?
Let's make a newsletter to help the Christian filmmakersget better connected to help them promote their projects.
And then we thought, Hey, you know what?
Let's make it into like a nice magazine, which we did called Creative Motion Magazine.
But we also included people from really all over the country and all over the world.
So we wrote articles about other.
(05:41):
Just films and like Vindication, which I know you're a writer on, and all thereally cool Christians out there who are making films and actors and everything.
And then my husband wanted to take to the next step.
He said, you know what?
Let's put it online and make a creative motion online so thatwe can be more updated rather than a magazine, which we did that.
(06:02):
And then his ultimate goal was to make a Roku channel, whichI forgot to mention that after this whole thing with our show.
Being thrown to the garbage.
We made a Roku channel, I think it was around, around maybe 2013, calledthe Christ Clubhouse Channel, and that was when Roku was really first getting going and there weren't many Christian Roku channels out there.
(06:26):
And so.
We had about over 20,000 subscribers.
But at that point, like after a year, I didn't know how toget advertisers and I didn't wanna spend any more money on it.
And I thought, well, if this is something God wants usto do, then he would provide the means for us to do it.
And I just didn't feel like we should spend our own money anymore, andso we shut it down, even though it was a fairly decent sized channel.
(06:51):
So then we got involved with the Michigan Christian filmmakers, and then we eventually thenstarted the Creative Motion Network, which was a Roku channel, and it was, it was like a cutting edge indie Christian Roku channel where we hosted people like Deanna Lane Heard.
Awesome Mod Wash Moments show and others, and a lot ofshort films and that sort of thing, and a lot of talk shows.
(07:14):
And we had that for a couple years, but then when all thewoke stuff was going on, we got de platformed because.
Some of the talk show hosts on there were very traditional Christians, which, youknow, back then you would get de platformed for being a very traditional Christian.
And that was, I think about three years ago.
And I was actually happy about that because it was a lotof work for my husband, but we also got connected to some.
(07:39):
Awesome people.
Like I did a show called Keeping Up with the Christians, where I interviewed peoplelike Todd Terry and Venus Monique from Vindication, Josh Murray, uh, Jerry Dalala.
Who, Christopher Sean Shaw has, he's done short with, uh, Josh and Jerry,and just some really wonderful people that we got to be friends with.
(07:59):
But when that shut down, I was actually glad because then it allowed us to focus on.
My husband's true gift, and that is his cartoon characters.
So by that point, after about 18 years, I was determined.
And so when the lockdown hit, I, I believe in being a submissive wife.
I believe it's scriptural.
(08:20):
And so I asked my husband if I could get the animation software, and he said yes.
And so I researched.
Very methodically during the lockdown, the software, and Igot Cartoon Animator, which is a very economical software.
It's, it was only like $150 and, and user friendly, super easy.
You don't have to be an artist to use it because it has a lot of templates.
(08:43):
So I bought the software and.
Watch their YouTube tutorials during the lockdown to learn animation.
But I have to say that I was, I, I did learn a little bit of animation, but it wasn'tlike, like I said, in my mind, I was a poser, admittedly so, and I wasn't embarrassed about that because I really had no intention of ever actually learning animation.
(09:05):
I didn't even really want to, I was just hoping that, you know, Icould do a little bit and my husband's characters would get discovered.
Licensed and then somebody else would do the work.
So that was what I was kind of hoping for.
And so I just spent a few months learning that.
But also at that time, uh, we had become friends with so many of the wonderful Christian actors,like the people I mentioned, but also Robert Shepherd, who was involved with so many great projects.
(09:31):
And a lot of these people were in our first cartoon, which is called Betty the Barnacle.
And.
We had wanted to get some notable names in there.
So through Friends, we reached out to Corbin Burson's agent, and he agreed to come on for that.
And for those who don't know, Corbin Burnson startedin LA Law and Psych, he played the dad in Psych.
(09:56):
And so he agreed to be in that.
I also reached out to on Facebook, Marta, Kristin, who is Judy on LostIn Space, and, uh, Lou Graham, who was the lead singer of Foreigner, and he was just inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame last year.
And so we got all of these people to be in the first cartoon called Bennie the Barnacle.
Now, I have to preface this by saying that this is before I'd ever.
(10:18):
Ever done any animation, like more than just a couple of short things.
So here it is, and I have these wonderful, famous people in my cartoonand I don't even really know how to animate, and I was so intimidated.
I thought, I can't let these people down.
They are so talented and so sweet, and they're Christianand so wonderful for agreeing to be in this cartoon.
(10:41):
I'm like, I can't let these people down, so I have to really make this cartoon as good as possible.
Extremely intimidated.
So that was like, let's see, 20, 20, around the fall and winter whenall this kind of came, came together when we got these people lined up.
And then I just kind of made a few other short cartoons with.
(11:04):
An octopus, a red cyclops octopus named Blink, and thisended up being our main cartoon, which I can get into that.
But basically I made a short cartoon with Blink, and then onecalled Whispering Wally, which is a whale that whispers because.
Uh, the most important things he has to say, he says, with the whisper.
(11:24):
And so I did these over the next few months until the next year, I'd say like 2021.
I focused on those cartoons to actually learn animation.
So I did those and ended up getting a mainstream Well, okay.
Actually, got a small distributor for those cartoons andthen I was still learning, really learning how to animate.
(11:47):
And so I then returned back to Benny the Barnacle now that I learned a little bitwith these first few, and this was in like 2021, I guess like the spring of 2021.
I really spent a lot of time learning animation.
Like one example, there's a character named Killer the Krill, and he's, he isBenny's sidekick and best friend and he is actually voiced by Jose Carlos Gutierrez.
(12:12):
Who is president of Comics 34 Next Generation, whichis the biggest Christian comics ministry in the world.
And he's based in Mexico City.
So it's cool because he is, you know, he is from Mexico.
So the character has a cool Mexican accent and also speaks a couple wordsin Spanish, which is hilarious and that makes it more fun in the cartoon.
(12:33):
So I'm learning this animation and there's one scene where Killer, the Krill.
Is just sitting there eating kelp, a piece of kelp.
And on my software, cartoon Animator, I'll make the clips in CartoonAnimator and then I put 'em into Premier to paste everything together.
'cause you can't make a whole cartoon in the software.
It's just, it's too big.
(12:54):
You can usually, usually you just make really short clips ofa few seconds and then paste it into Premier to edit together.
So in Premier.
The cartoon I could see was glitching, a little tiny piece of kelp or, yeah,seaweed out of his mouth kept glitchy, like it was like flashing on and off.
And in the software I couldn't see.
(13:16):
I'm like, what is this?
Why is this happening?
Because I had a bunch of layers.
It's kind like in premier when.
Matt (13:22):
Mm-hmm.
Kristen (13:23):
Take down the visibility of something to make it disappear, and you make a cut and then you bring it up again to make it flash.
It's the same thing with the animation.
I had several pieces of the seaweed that was in his mouth, and I would take down thevisibility, like put it to zero and then turn it back up to make it look like he was chewing it.
(13:44):
But I had multiple layers of the seaweed, so itreally looked like his mouth was full and it was tiny.
Super tiny.
Because he's just in the distance sitting on a rock.
And so I could not, for the life of me, find out why is this flashing?
It's not supposed to do that.
It's a glitch.
It looks bad and in the software you could not see it.
(14:05):
It did not show up.
So it, but it did show up.
This glitch in Premiere and I spent two whole days just trying to find that glitch I said.
You know what if, if my name's on this, but also these famous peoplewho I really respect, I'm not gonna ignore this and let a glitch go by.
So I spent two days trying to find that glitch.
It was so hard to do.
(14:27):
So I found it and I just kept working on the cartoon and itended up being a 24 minute cartoon, like a short feature.
And it's now on Tubi and I'm still really proud of that.
And it came on Tubi two years ago.
We have a small distributor for that.
And it premiered on there, and I'm really pleased with thatbecause Film Threat gave that cartoon a seven and film threat.
(14:51):
I really respect them.
They're very harsh film critics.
They're indie film critics, and I really respect Chris Gore as a film critic.
I think he is an excellent film critic.
And by comparison, that same year, the Disney cartoon that came out that year, they gave a three.
So I really respect that.
We got that cartoon got a seven and another, yeah, another reviewerwho is a mainstream non-Christian reviewer, said that that cartoon has the ability to reach the mainstream regardless of your faith.
(15:22):
And so that was our goal, to have these cartoons be able to reach the mainstream.
Cheryl Felicia Rhodes, who is, well known at Christian Films.
She referred me to a friend and I can't think of his nameright now, but he worked, he did VFX for Mission to Mars.
So he is an animator and we got a quote from him years ago when Creative Motion was amagazine and he said, Christians don't have the desire to compete in the mainstream.
(15:46):
And I thought, well, you know what I do because I want tocreate excellent work because that's what we're called to do.
And like there's a quote from Martin Luther, he says.
Don't preach, but make an excellent shoe.
Something to that effect.
So I was, I'm Lutheran and I was raised to pursue excellence because it glorifies God.
So that's why I spent two days just to find a glitch and alittle tiny piece of seaweed that only appears for a second.
(16:12):
So when the cartoon came out and we got that great review fromFilm Threat, that was only last year actually, that we got that.
And it got on Tubi.
And I mean, I know I'm not a Disney level animator,but I did the best I could and I felt good about that.
And I felt like, okay, I did what I could.
And Corbin Bernson and the others, I felt like I didnot embarrass them by having their name be part of it.
(16:37):
And turns out that Corbin actually liked the characterso much he agreed to stay on as executive producer.
Matt (16:43):
Wow.
Kristen (16:45):
For the series pilot, which was a half hour pilot that I made.
In the first cartoon, Bennie the Barnacle, the feature.
He played Wallace, the great blue Whale and he was a blind whale.
And this is a quote he said.
With all the projects that come my way while I give each one my best110% effort, I often lose sight of the scripts that really touch me be.
(17:07):
Bennie the Barnacle was one project that has never left my mind, or I have forgottenmy gratitude for being a part of it, and hopefully future part of this great adventure.
So.
The fact that Corbin then agreed to stay on as executive producer the halfhour pilot that I made afterwards, that to me was a really nice feeling.
Matt (17:28):
Well, yeah.
I was gonna ask you, uh, this, I'm gonna get nerdy now, but was it a frame rate issue?
Kristen (17:32):
No, it's just the software.
It's the craziest thing in the software.
Like, sometimes you just can't see something, like, another example, you know how when you, downloada transparent p and g and you open it up in Photoshop and you see the black and white little squares
Matt (17:48):
it is not really, not really transparent.
They're lying to
Kristen (17:51):
Right, right.
Yeah.
So you see there's another cartoon I make for Cherry, theResurrection Rabbit, which it's kind of like Alvin and the Chipmunks.
They're singing bunny cartoons.
They're hilarious.
And it's for charity, children's charity called Cherry, the Resurrection Rabbit.
Well, I made one cartoon for the bunny there was one, an image of a circus that I downloaded.
(18:11):
And in the software all you could see was the circus.
But then when I saved it and it ended up getting onto Tubi, you could see the.
grey and white checker background of the p and g, and it's because I didn't put an addition, awhite background behind it in the animation software, and you couldn't see it in Premier either.
And I, oh, it just killed me.
(18:31):
But nobody's gonna, I mean, it's just there for a second and nobody's gonna know.
But at this point, I mean, I can't change that at
Matt (18:37):
Well, those are the kinds of Easter eggs that if people notice, that means they're really watching your content pretty intently, which that's a good thing if you, if you can find that kind of an error uh, in something I've done.
Awesome.
That means you've really paid attention.
Well, I, I wanna go back real quick to this.
When you were talking about the poser mentality, I think a, that's somethingthat I think a lot of people listening to this are gonna relate to pretty well.
(19:00):
'cause we've all felt that way as we get into a new industry that we may not understand,unless you're already part of a giant system, which a lot of us in the indie world are not.
Then you're, you're having to figure things out as you go.
Everybody is, and, and we all kind of have that imposter syndrome at some point.
And I think the, the trick is to push through that.
It's cognitive dissonance.
(19:20):
Just go through the pain and keep going.
I'm reminded of a conversation I once had with Steven Kendrick.
And he was telling me that at, you know, when they first made their first movie, it was his brotherwho was the creative, he was the writer, he was the director, Stephen, just, he was a business guy.
And he said, all I knew is I was gonna put the business part of it together.
And somebody after they made the movie, somebody said, oh, you're the producer.
(19:41):
He goes, I don't know what a producer does.
Well, that's, that's what that is what a producer does, handles the business of the movie.
So, you know, it's, if you'd have said, Steven, I need you to be the producer.
Before that, he'd have gone, I don't know what that is.
I'm a poser.
But all he did was the job that instinctively he, knew how to do, and that'smanage the business of a production and just kind of figure it out as you go.
(20:02):
So you were doing exactly what successful independent artists do.
Kristen (20:07):
And I have to just say this before I address that, is that really quick, the gray white checkers on the transparent PNG that I was talking about didn't show up in the animation software.
So that's what killed me, is that I couldn't see the glitch in the software.
And it was the same thing with the seaweeds.
So it was.
So hard to fix.
But yeah, getting back to the poser mentality, what's funny is that I didn't really care.
(20:30):
I mean, I wasn't embarrassed about feeling that way because when Kevin and Ifirst got married, we were just focused on books before we got involved with tv.
A lot of the authors that we would come across in our different writers'groups, they like, I saw a lot of jealousies, mostly from the wives who were jealous of their more successful husbands, and I thought, this is crazy.
(20:51):
I would be, I mean, I am.
Super proud of Kevin like been called The next CS Lewis, the publisher that discovered himsaid he would quote, set the standard for children's literature for generations to come and.
Matt (21:05):
That is a pretty high comparison.
A high bar
right there.
Kristen (21:08):
And this publisher was a, genius known for being a genius in the field of creativity.
Like he signed, when he met Kevin, he immediately signed himto a multi-book deal and said, don't show your work to anybody.
'cause we don't want anybody to impact your writing style.
And so Kevin has one like.
Writing awards, best youth fiction.
His first book was called A Masterpiece of Communication and he is illustratedhundreds of books and been an illustrator for cable TV and streaming.
(21:36):
So, but I was never jealous of him.
I was always like, he would always say I'm embarrassing himwhen I talk about his work, but I'm like his biggest fan.
And also with having an English literature degree, even before I married him, I knew this.
Guy is a special writer.
Like he is a great literary writer.
So I knew that as well before I even met him.
(21:58):
So I was never jealous.
But I saw so many in the writers groups, I really noticed it a lot that thewomen authors were jealous of their husbands who had were more successful.
I thought, that's crazy.
You should be excited for your husband.
So getting back to the poser mentality.
I didn't care that I didn't want to be a real animator because that was never my dream.
(22:20):
My dream was for Kevin's characters to get out there and be discovered, and in my mind, Iwas an author and my focus was my book King of Glory, which is about the second coming.
So it wasn't like I felt intimidated or jealous, I just didn'tcare because it wasn't like my identity of being an animator.
I got a really nice compliment from the guy who is the community managerfor Reallusion, which is a software company, and he gave me a wonderful compliment about my animation recently, and it's on my LinkedIn page.
(22:53):
I don't have it right off the top of my head, but it just stunnedme the comments that he said about, you know, my artistry.
I'm like, wow, this is amazing.
guess my point, like the whole takeaway that I would say to people listening to this is go for it.
Go bully like you never have before and make it yourself.
(23:14):
And that's the biggest message I would have for anybody listening to this.
Make it yourself and take the time to learn the skills like, 'causeI see so many people, wonderful Christian filmmakers, that they spend years trying to get money and they're always doing pitches and.
I see some of the projects they wanna do, and it's like, wow, this is such a great idea.
(23:37):
Make it yourself and just do what you can with what you have at the moment.
Because what I've seen with the creativity that I put into these cartoons,like as a woman, I put different things in there than man would do.
I add a lot of pinks and purples and colors that appeal to girls, andI'm mindful of that and I add a little more emotion to the cartoons.
(24:00):
By having some slow pauses and the slow panning into the eyes, that sort of thing.
And the men, I think, are more action oriented.
So I add a little more of the emotion and things that wouldappeal to girls where a male animator isn't gonna do that.
And also like some crazy artistic things that I'vedone with these cartoons like I just did last week.
(24:23):
One for Cherry, the Resurrection Rabbit.
Cherry is, it's a children's charity that helps abuse children.
Started by a lady that started it as like, she had a puppet, like she does ventriloquismwell, and she sings and she's got wonderful songs like she's been to seminary.
So her songs are very theologically rich and they're professionally produced in Nashville.
(24:45):
They're bluegrass songs.
And it sounds like Alvin, the Chipmunks and they're hilarious.
So she has books and many DVDs.
So actually three years ago now, I got connected through JackFoster, the Illustrator, and I started making cartoons for Cherry.
And she's got a. Musical half hour musical on Tubi called BluegrassBunny, the Musical, and other cartoons on Tubi that I made.
(25:11):
Well, I just made one last week.
It's called One Way Street, and it's about how I'm ona one way street and I'm not gonna turn away from God.
Well, I Googled like beautiful streets, and turns out there'sa lot of beautiful streets in the Amalfi coast in Italy.
So I got all these pictures that I downloaded of streets in Amalfi.
(25:33):
So here's this bluegrass bunny in the Amalfi coast at a Carrot mobile singing thissong and going through all these hairpin turns in the mounds and it's hilarious.
And that comes out, I think, on the 21st.
It comes out like in a few weeks.
Matt (25:47):
Okay.
I, I wanna stop there just because I, I think I want to kind of go reiterate the point.
Of, I think this episode, the lesson of this episode, we're gonna bringyou back for another episode 'cause we have a ton more to talk about.
We're running outta time in this episode, but for me that is the key.
I think so many independants, we're out there going, I just need to be discovered.
I just need the right giant system to come and
(26:08):
incorporate me.
But the problem with that is what, what did we, what did you say about Disney at the very beginning?
These, giant systems are two giant for innovation.
Innovation doesn't come from giant corporations.
It never has.
Innovation comes from independence.
Who grow their innovation so beautifully because of how innovative and,and new and creative it is to the point that then the giant corporations have to come get involved and buy you, or, or distributor your whatever.
(26:35):
But, like you said, do it yourself, even if it's a little more low budget, great ideasand great creative shine through, you know, sometimes a lack of resources and production.
So that's the big lesson for this one and the lesson that you have lived out.
So congratulations.
For that.
So Kristen Collier, I, I do wanna thank you for being on this episode of the Faith andFamily Film Makers podcast, but as you guys can tell, she's just now getting going.
(27:00):
So you're gonna want us to tune into the next episode as we bring Kristen back.
But Kristen, thanks so much for joining us today.
I'm inspired, I'm ready to go, and I can't wait to talk to you from the next episode.
Kristen (27:10):
Thank you so much, Matt.
It's been a huge blessing to talk.
You.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.