April 3, 2025 • 30 mins
Episode 138 - Set Dynamics: Roles and Responsibilities
In this episode of the Faith and Family Filmmakers podcast, host Geoffrey Whitt welcomes back Joth Riggs to discuss set logistics and the various roles of assistant directors (ADs) on a film set. They delve into the responsibilities of first ADs, second ADs, and production assistants, highlighting their importance in maintaining order and efficiency. Joth shares advice for aspiring ADs and discusses the skills necessary for the role, emphasizing diplomacy and a can-do attitude. The episode concludes with an overview of Joth’s online course, 'Directing Your Movie,' and information about his production company, Whitestone Entertainment.
Highlights Include:
- Welcome and Introduction
- Roles and Responsibilities on Set
- First AD vs. Second AD Roles
- Path to Becoming an Assistant Director
- Skills Needed for AD Roles
- Understanding Film Set Dynamics
- Joth's Directing Course
- Whitestone Entertainment
- Advice for Aspiring Filmmakers
Bio:
Joth Riggs is an award-winning filmmaker whose career spans more than 30 years on over a hundred movies and t.v. shows for all the major Hollywood studios. After graduating with a degree in Film Production, Joth got his start on the set of Pet Sematary II. From there he went on to work on the sitcom Coach on the Universal lot before ultimately landing at Steven Spielberg's Amblin Entertainment. It was only after being accepted into the prestigious Director's Guild Training Program that Joth left Amblin to become a DGA Assistant Director.
After years as a sought out A.D. on everything from Starship Troopers, End of Days with Arnold Schwarzenegger, and Suicide Kings with Christopher Walken, to series' such as CSI, Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman, and Baywatch among others, Joth made the move to the director's chair.
Joth's latest film, Night of the Sicario, starring Natasha Henstridge, was released theatrically by Paramount Pictures and Saban Films.
Joth is currently working on his next feature, the action/thriller Coyote Dawn.
Joth’s Directing Your Movie Course:
https://www.faffassociation.com/directing-your-movie
Joth’s Links:
https://www.whitestoneentertainment.com/
https://www.facebook.com/jothriggs
FAFF Association Online Meetups: https://faffassociation.com/#faff-meetings
Screenwriters Retreat - Mexico: https://www.faffassociation.com/writers-retreat
Jaclyn's Book - In the Beginning, Middle and End: A Screenwriter’s Observations of LIfe, Character, and God: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D9R7XS9V
The Faith & Family Filmmakers podcast helps filmmakers who share a Christian worldview stay in touch, informed, and inspired. Releasing new episodes every week, we interview experts from varying fields of filmmaking; from screenwriters, actors, directors, and producers, to film scorers, talent agents, and distributors.
It is produced and hosted by Geoffrey Whitt and Jaclyn Whitt , and is brought to you by the Faith & Family Filmmakers Association
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Geoff (00:00):
Hey there.
Welcome back to the Faith andFamily Filmmakers podcast.
My name is Geoff and I'm really happyto have Joth Riggs with me today.
We, um, talked to himalready in our first episode.
We heard a lot about hisbackground and the work he's done.
I encourage you to go back and listento the previous episode if you haven't already done so, and you can find his full bio and learn more about him.
(00:21):
But welcome back Joth.
Joth (00:23):
Thanks, Geoff.
Appreciate it.
Good.
Be back.
Geoff (00:25):
Uh, we're gonna talk more about set logistics today.
Uh, you've got lots of experienceas a first ad, I think a second ad, and as a director, what does all of that look like?
What's the relationship between,those roles when you're on set?
That's what I wanna talk about today.
Joth (00:42):
Yeah, sure.
Uh, so the first ad is ultimatelyresponsible for basically keeping the machine moving and, making sure that everything is, done smoothly, efficiently, and safely.
Um, those are all sort of the,the three main priorities.
Um, you know, essentially we saythat the priority of the ads is to.
(01:06):
Get it in the can.
Um, there's a lot of movingparts and, uh, somebody needs to organize all of that and, and keep the whole process streamlined.
It's very easy to end up with chaos ona set because there's so many moving parts, so many different departments.
Every department's gottheir own responsibility.
(01:26):
Um, but you know, theysort of have blinders on.
Sometimes they're focused on.
Their immediate task and not alwayshow it fits all, into the big picture.
That's the job of the assistantdirectors to make sure that everything is working in harmony.
It's the director's responsibilityto make sure everything works creatively and the ad's job to make sure everything works logistically.
Geoff (01:49):
so the, director is getting the story told.
Joth (01:54):
Absolutely.
Geoff (01:55):
assistant director is making sure all the parts work so that the director can do his job.
Does
Joth (02:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ideally the director should bereally focused on getting great performances from their actors.
That's their priority.
Uh, whatever it takes for thedirector to be able to do that.
The assistant directorneeds to facilitate.
So, getting the actors ready,making sure that the right
actors for the right sceneare, you know, ready and in place when, the crew is ready,
(02:25):
making sure that the crew all knowswhat are we doing, what are we, uh, what are we setting up for?
What's happening after this sothey can be preparing for that.
and so on.
Yeah, it's a, it's abig logistical process.
Geoff (02:37):
So let's talk for a moment about first ad, second ad, uh, what the differences are and what each of them might be doing like on a daily basis.
Joth (02:46):
Yeah, so the first ad is really focused on
the shot
we are doing right now.
So, uh, whatever the crewis either shooting or
setting up for the ad is
prioritizing actually, andthen I'll go a step further.
Um,
and, and then what
happens after that
(03:07):
and what does today look like?
The second ad
is generally working on preparingfor the next day's work.
So they tend to be a day ahead.
Uh, they will often work back in a
trailer,
back in the
production
office.
They are going around
to different departments saying, Hey.
Uh, you know, tomorrow
we're using
(03:27):
this jib.
Tomorrow we have this stunt, uh, youknow, are you guys ready for that tomorrow wardrobe, you know, we go into a pool, are you ready for the costumes to get all wet?
And do we have everything we need toget our actors dried off and, and so on?
So they'll be talking to the differentdepartments throughout the day.
On what the next day's work isgonna entail to make sure that
(03:49):
when the
next day comes, the first ad haseverything they need to just implement.
Geoff (03:55):
Call times, perhaps that type of thing.
Joth (03:57):
Yeah.
Well, the first ad will itdepends on the relationship between the first and the second.
Um,
the first ad ultimately hasthe authority, will make the
final call.
The second ad
will often speculate on whatthey think the first ad's gonna
want.
you know, they have a lot ofsimilar knowledge, obviously, and similar information.
(04:19):
So they might say, we have a split,for example, which means we have partial daylight work, partial night
work,
So they, you know, they're looking at the
script as
well.
They're
looking at the scenes.
They know how much workis in each, and they might
say, you
know.
We
have roughly half and half, uh, I thinkwe might wanna shoot for a noon call, which basically means we'll go till midnight, half daylight, half night
(04:44):
work.
And then the first ad we will assess thatand say, yeah, I think Noon's perfect, or, no, we actually need to come in earlier for this, or what have you.
And it's a discussion and uh,and then the second ad applies whatever the first ad wants.
Geoff (05:00):
Mm-hmm.
What advice would you have forsomebody thinking they might want to fill this type of role?
what knowledge or experiencedo you think they should have?
What's the, the best routeto get into those roles?
Joth (05:13):
Uh, okay.
So two different questions.
The route to get in and what, whatexperience do they need to have?
I'd say, uh, first of all, the entrylevel position on any film set other than a free intern is a production assistant.
sometimes referred toas a set pa, so a set
PA works under
(05:33):
the assistant directors, sothey're part of the ad team
and they
help,
facilitate whatever weneed to make it happen.
Uh, a
lot of times that means, um, fanningout to let people know when we're rolling so that somebody's not, uh, you know, hammering, you know,
nearby when we're rollingsound, uh, stopping people from walking into the shot,
(05:56):
stuff like
that.
So they, they, just do a lotof accommodating, facilitating.
Communicating with people, uh, whateverthe a's instructions are and so on.
So that's a great entry level position.
Um, other, sometimes other departmentshave their own PAs as well.
Sometimes there might
be a camera PA, a wardrobepa. So for example, if you're interested in one of the other
(06:19):
departments, uh, besides the addepartment, you might see if there's a PA position in their department, which it's, again, it's like a runner, a gopher.
Uh, you know, and anything Ican do to help kind of position.
So that's the best way to get in, uh, ifyou wanna be an a, an ad. And so as a PA you get to spend a lot of time on set.
(06:43):
You get to understand all the differentroles on a set, what everybody does, who's responsible for what, and so on.
And so that starts to arm youfor what it takes to become a second assistant director.
Um, there's multiple second assistantdirectors on a film crew as well.
There's a key second assistantdirector, that's the one we were just talking about who does the call sheet.
(07:07):
And then there's second,second assistant director.
And then beyond that, there may beadditional second assistant directors.
if you're on a small project,you may only have one.
If you're on a Marvel Blockbuster, youmay have seven or eight second ads.
Um, with different responsibilities.
some are assigned to different units.
(07:27):
You might have a stunt unit, you mighthave a driving unit, um, an action unit.
And, uh, so you, you mayhave multiple second ads.
So while you have the second or thekey second working on tomorrow's work, as I mentioned, the second, second tends to be right on set near the first ad. Facilitating today's shot, the shot we're setting up right now.
(07:52):
So while I'm first thing, forexample, I have a second, second who's helping me set Background.
Background are what we refer to asthe extras on set, the atmosphere.
And uh, you know, if we're in a restaurantscene, all the other people sitting in the restaurant eating that don't have dialogue, uh, would be considered extras.
(08:15):
That has to be set.
That's the one creativeaspect of the ad's role.
well, maybe not the one, butit is, one of the bigger ones.
So creatively speaking, the ads tendto be the ones that set up all of the blocking, all of the movement of all of the non-speaking parts in a scene.
Um, if you have one in particular,let's say you've got a, a character on a sidewalk and, uh, somebody goes up and, you know, may a, a street performer and somebody goes up and throws money in, in his hat and he says, you know, thank you very much.
(08:51):
And then the guy keeps going, thatwould be considered a featured extra.
Because that extra, they stilldon't have lines, but they are actually called out in the script.
They actually have specificaction as opposed to just random passerby in the background.
so, you know, depending courseon how big the project is, we'll determine how many seconds you need.
(09:13):
You may need, several just to workwith all of the extras and to set them.
Um, so as a pa. Your next move wouldtypically be if you were to move into the ad department would be as a second, second ad or additional second ad when you're working as a second.
(09:33):
Second for a little while, you start tounderstand a bit more about department heads and, and bigger picture items.
Then you kind of move up to, tokey second ad. Um, and then the next step after that would be first ad. So that's the hierarchy.
Geoff (09:49):
very interesting.
now you've worked in all ofthose roles, is that correct?
Joth (09:53):
I have.
Yeah.
There, you know, there, actuallythere's one other sort of intermediate role that I didn't mention, uh, I did in the last podcast, which is, assistant Director trainee.
there is a training program that theDirectors Guild, offers that trains people to become assistant directors.
Um, there's only a handful ofthem, maybe a, dozen or two dozen.
(10:17):
in the country.
And so, um, if you're fortunate tobe able to get into that program, then it is a bit of a stepping stone.
You'll work for 400 days, which isessentially almost two years as an assistant director trainee.
The DGA will assign you to projectsand you'll basically kinda work as a shadow to the second ad.
(10:41):
And then when you finish your 400days, you become a second ad. So I actually was in that program, actually I, I started as a pa. So I was a pa, well, gosh, I'll go even further.
I started as an intern beforeI was ever in a paid position.
I worked for free on a set and, uh, andthen I worked my way up to PA and got, you know, basically minimum wage and.
(11:06):
The, the great thing again is thatit allowed me to really start to understand the inner workings of a set.
and then I was fortunate to getaccepted into that training program.
So I did 400 days as a DGA trainee.
Then I moved into the DGA asan assistant director, and was a second assistant director.
Was a second.
(11:26):
Second.
I was an additional second, so.
Depending on the projects I ended upon, I would either be working with background, I would be working with what we call first team, which is principal actors, getting them ready, getting through hair and makeup and so on.
Um,
by the
way, I
mentioned that the
second, second works on set with thefirst ad. you may have another second.
(11:48):
Second or an additional second.
Running first team back at base camp.
Getting the actors through hair andmakeup every morning get making sure that they know what we're doing.
Escorting them to and from the set.
Oh, I'm sorry.
I actually didn't answer thesecond part of your question.
The first one was how to get there.
The second was what arethe skills necessary?
That's an important one, and that'ssomething that I learned in the training program that, first of all, you have to have an absolute can-do attitude.
(12:16):
Um, you, you really need that tobe in the film industry at all.
Uh, it's gonna require a lot ofeffort, on your part, a lot of energy.
And, you know, it's not a nine to fivesit at a desk, punch a clock kind of job.
It's a kind of job where you dowhatever it takes to get the job done.
And so if you're not, you know.
(12:38):
Ready and willing and ableto do whatever it takes.
Yeah, you're not gonnalast very long, right?
You, you've really gotta be ready tojump in and help out and do whatever.
so that can do attitude is, high priority.
The second thing that's really importantin particular for the ads is diplomacy.
The ads are the management department.
(13:02):
so therefore we have authority.
We can essentially tellthe crew what to do.
However, we also have to answer tothe higher ups we have to answer to the studio, the producers.
Um, and then our principal actors,especially our lead actors, you know, they carry a lot of weight on a project.
(13:25):
There's not an authority scenariowith that, but you don't wanna ruffle feathers of your actors.
That causes a lot of problems.
So you have to be able to tell peoplewhat to do without people feeling like they're being told what to do.
It's a really fine line, and sodiplomacy is really critical.
(13:46):
You can't say, Hey, you, youknow, cut it out or do this now.
Even though technically youhave that authority, you ruffle feathers and you're gone.
You have to do it in a way thatrespects people, that treats people, as professionals, because everybody else has their jobs.
(14:06):
You have to really understandtheir priorities so you can come and meet them where they are to try and get what you need while allowing them to get what they need.
Because there's a lot of friction ona film set because every department, works for their department head.
They don't work for you, so to speak.
(14:29):
And so, you
know, for
example, if you work in thecamera department as an assistant camera, the DP is usually the
person who's gonna be
hiring
or allowing you to be hired on their team.
Ad don't hire camera team.
So
even though the ad has the authority tosay, Hey, you need to be doing this or
that
they wanna please their boss,which is gonna be the dp, and if the DP had them doing something different, you've got conflict.
(14:57):
So you have to understand
the hierarchy, what their prioritiesare, and again, what yours are and how you can meet them.
Um, so, so diplomacy is key.
Geoff (15:08):
Yeah, I mean, of what you're saying works of course, and is important in all areas of life, and especially in leadership.
So I I think very much what you'retalking about is leadership type roles
Joth (15:19):
Yeah.
Management.
Geoff (15:20):
Yeah.
And, doing it well is important.
Joth (15:24):
Absolutely.
Um, unfortunately, there are a lot of
people
on film sets that don't understandgood management skills, and there's reputations out there.
I. Some ads that are screamers or, youknow, just don't treat people right.
they make the rest of us lookbad and it's unfortunate.
(15:45):
Um, but the good ones are, calmand understanding and communicative
and those are
all things that are gonna make you areally strong ad and team player and you're gonna work a lot more often.
Geoff (15:59):
Yeah.
It also sounds to me like, one of thethings as you're, you're starting out and maybe working your way up, one of the things that you're doing is learning the different parts and the different departments of what's going on on a set.
And the more you know everyone else'sroles, while you may not know how to, to actually fulfill the role yourself, having an understanding of them is really gonna help you do your job.
Joth (16:23):
Yeah, you really need to put yourself in their shoes because here's the unfortunate.
Fortunate thing about the film industry,it's an entire world of freelancers.
Nobody has job security.
We work on that project andwhen that project's over, every last one of us is unemployed.
So when you're talking to a specialeffects guy who's setting up his pyrotechnics or whatever, uh, you needed to move quicker or you need him to do it somewhere else.
(16:51):
Remember that, that person's priority ismaking sure that that pyrotechnic goes off exactly as planned and that it's perfect because that's how he gets his next job.
And so anything you do to curb that isgonna be met with resistance, right?
So they aren't always the crew isnot always gonna cooperate if you aren't, again, coming alongside them.
(17:16):
Now if you have the understandingthat, okay, what this person requires, let's say it's a prop person and they're building a prop or something.
Okay?
I know that, that the producers or thedirector has been coming down hard on them to make sure that this is done on time or that it looks a certain way and you know, they need to use the drill and we're shooting and you need them to be quiet.
(17:40):
So it's rather than just say, Hey, cut itout, you know, you need to stop right now.
You need to say, Hey, you know,can you go do that over there?
Or How much more time do you need?
Maybe, maybe we can stall.
I mean, maybe it's like, well, I onlyneed two more minutes and then I'm done.
Okay.
You know what?
We might be able to afford to taketwo minutes and like, okay, well then, then I'm gonna let the gaffer tweak the light that he was just talking about.
(18:07):
So finish up.
But you know, so it's communicationand it's understanding what that person needs, understanding that the gaffer has requested, he needs a minute, you know, and again, it's this big dance, all right?
But the Big thing is that you have to
understand what people require andthen you have to really be diplomatic and respectful of their needs.
Geoff (18:28):
Well, Joth, you've given us a really good perspective on the logistics and the roles, on set, especially with regards to, uh, assistant directors and the various roles that come under that.
Um, now your experience, of course,goes into directing as well, which is, different again, from any of those roles.
What I would like you to do is take afew moments and tell us about your course because, you've got a very extensive course, it's called Directing Your Movie.
(18:55):
Uh, we're actually, it'savailable on our website.
for those who are listening, youcan go to, uh, ffa association.com and find it under online courses.
But tell us about thatcourse right now, please.
Joth (19:08):
Yeah.
Well first of all, I started as adirector, um, early on with short films, and then I moved into assistant directing because I had opportunities.
I really enjoyed it and, uh, andthen it kind of stuck for a while.
And then later in recent years,I've gone back to directing again.
I
still
assistant direct as well.
(19:29):
I
I like both.
Um, but
because I've done so much assistantdirecting, which is essentially the right hand man of the director, I have worked with so many directors.
I have seen so many
directors in action.
some who are amazing, and some who are
terrible.
(19:49):
I've been able to learn so muchfrom watching them and experiencing what they're going through.
And it's, ironic because Ioften say, 'cause, I mean,
I've worked with some of the
best directors in the business.
I learned way more from the terrible onesbecause the best directors make it look so
easy.
it's almost like sleightof hand, you know?
(20:10):
Wow.
How did they do that?
That was amazing.
They said one thing and gotexactly what they needed.
So it's a little harder to discern,but the bad directors, it's super easy to see what doesn't work.
You know?
Whoa, okay.
When you approach somebody likethat, you don't get what you're looking for, you know, or you, your miscommunication is really causing, a problem with the crew and so on.
(20:36):
so I knew that AI knew I had a lotto offer and so I thought, you know,
I wanna put something togetherfrom a logistics standpoint on directing, because so often a lot of
what you read or watch on directingis about the creative side which is super important, but a lot of people don't really talk about the nuts and bolts of directing what is required from a, director.
(21:02):
What do you do when you,when you first get on set,
you know, what's the firstthing a director does?
A lot of people it'll talkabout things like that.
What's the second thing you do?
You know, it's just not
the sort of thing yougenerally talk about.
Um, and so, so I talk about thespecifics of the day-to-day, what that
looks like in pre-production
(21:23):
When you're in development, developingthe story, the script casting, uh, scouting, and then what that looks like
when you're actually shooting, whenyou're onset during production.
What's the day to day look like?
and then
post-production, I mean,it's, it's a long process.
There's a lot to it, and mycourse goes step by step.
(21:43):
I think there's 64 segments,uh, covering, each one, um, from A to Z all the way through.
Geoff (21:51):
mm-hmm.
Sounds, very extensive
Joth (21:54):
It's very thorough.
Geoff (21:55):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, as I mentioned, you can find thatcourse, um, under online courses on our website, faf association.com.
Uh, how might they best knowwhether it's suited for them?
Joth (22:09):
Well, there's a trailer for the, for the course and, and I believe you have that on your site as well.
it's just a brief, it's a, it's a two orthree minute trailer where I basically kind of give you a snippet into a moment honest film set where I talk about all of the different roles and it's the kind of thing that either really excites you or completely bores you.
(22:33):
And I think that's one way to know whetheror not film is for you, if that trailer.
Sounds super exciting Then this isdefinitely the thing for you, and I think you'll get a lot out of that course.
Geoff (22:44):
So tell us about Whitestone Entertainment, your production company, and, uh, what you've been working on or what's coming up.
Joth (22:51):
you know, it's initially way back when I came out of film school and, and started doing short films.
It was Whitestone Productions.
Um, as I got more involved inthe film industry and, I realized that what really sets great films apart is whether or not they're,
entertaining.
and I thought, you know what?
It's not just enough toactually make a movie.
(23:13):
You gotta make it great.
You gotta make it entertaining.
And that's when I changed the companyname to Whitestone Entertainment.
Um, Whitestone, which by the waycomes from Revelations two 17,
where Jesus says, I giveyou each a white stone.
He's making reference to in their daysof hearing, court trials, jurors would be given a white and a black stone, and at the end of the testimonies, they would put a white or a black stone in a pouch to determine guilty or not guilty.
(23:42):
And I always love that knowing.
Jesus says, in Revelations, I give youeach a not guilty verdict, a white stone.
So that's where the nameof my company comes from.
Um, and Whitestone is essentially, thoseare projects that originate with me.
So right now we have a feature film anddevelopment, uh, an action thriller.
Actually, we're in pre-production,we're casting as we speak.
(24:04):
it's an action thriller that, um,myself and my writing partner, Matthew Easton wrote and, um, we are hoping to shoot it later this year in New Mexico.
Geoff (24:14):
Cool, cool, cool.
So you still work on projectsfor other production companies.
You get hired as a director,hired as a first ad or second ad, but your own projects are done through Whitestone Entertainment.
Joth (24:26):
Yeah, that's correct.
So I, I do direct for other people.
Those would not beconsidered a white stone.
White Stone is a project that,yeah, that, that comes from me.
Yeah.
Geoff (24:35):
We'll get links in the show notes for, uh, your production company and also tell us where people can find you if they wanna, learn more.
Joth (24:43):
Sure.
Um, well, my production companywebsite is whitestone entertainment.com
and, uh, I'm on social media.
I'm, I'm mostly on.
Facebook.
I post a lot of behind thescenes photos from a lot of the sets that I work on there.
I'm also on Instagram.
I'm on LinkedIn.
but you'll see, you'll get themost out of the experience if you followed me on Facebook.
Geoff (25:06):
Cool.
Well, I really appreciateyour, um, your input today.
I think for me.
It's been a, a unique interviewin that we haven't really covered this type of stuff, before.
And, you know, to have somebodywalk through the logistics of set and, uh, the roles on set.
I think it's very valuable forthose who aren't so familiar.
Joth (25:28):
Well, you know, but, that's one thing I wanted to mention by the way, is a lot of people, when they think they wanna go into film, they all think they wanna be the director or.
the producer.
And don't realize that there's,uh, probably 150 different things you can do on a film set and so many more opportunities.
I mean, there's only onedirector on any given movie, but you might have eight grips.
(25:51):
So, you know, that's a great way
to get involved in production.
Uh, and the other thing is,of course, if you're directing
and you are new, you're by nature, right?
You're gonna be working witha pretty inexperienced team.
And so you're not really going to learna whole lot about how the greats do it.
(26:12):
But if you get yourself on aprofessional film set with bigger, you know, more experienced people.
in a smaller role, then you can learn.
And so get yourself onto a film set as aset costumer, as a grip or an electrician or a props person or DIT or script supervisor or special effects or stunts.
(26:34):
I could go on and on.
There's so many different,assets, on a film set, and not everybody needs to be the director.
or the producer.
Geoff (26:43):
Yeah.
And if your goal is to become a director,you can learn a lot along the way.
Joth (26:47):
Well the other thing is that you really need the respect of the crew.
'cause you are at the helm and if youhave no clue what it is they do, it's gonna be very difficult to get that.
So the most respected directorsare the ones that have a sense of what it is their crew is doing and why and how they can help.
(27:10):
and that just goes a long waytoward having a really harmonious work environment, which also means
that
it's much easier for the director to.
get what they want because there's,
two kinds.
of sets.
There's sets.
of harmony and sets of chaos, and therecan be a lot of, um, antagonism if you have a director who's clueless or doesn't treat the crew right, or with respect.
(27:35):
Then there's gonna be a lot of, uh,a lot of friction and it's not gonna be a pleasant experience and the director's not gonna get what they want.
When they treat their crew withrespect, it's a lot easier to get amazing stuff because then the crew is, willing to go above and beyond or to give it their all to make sure that they're giving the director their best.
(27:57):
And that's ultimately whatyou would want as a filmmaker.
Geoff (27:59):
Mm-hmm.
Great advice.
Joth, thank you so much for sharing today.
It's been great having you.
, a lot of deep stuff here andI think a lot of value for our listeners, so I really appreciate it.
Thank you so much for takingyour time and sharing.
Joth (28:13):
Yeah.
Thanks so much, Geoff.
I enjoyed it.
Appreciate it.
Geoff (28:15):
Take care, and I remind everyone, take look for directing your movie.
just go to faf association.comand online courses.
Hey there.
Welcome back to the Faith andFamily Filmmakers podcast.
My name is Geoff and I'm really happyto have Joth Riggs with me today.
We, um, talked to himalready in our first episode.
We heard a lot about hisbackground and the work he's done.
I encourage you to go back and listento the previous episode if you haven't already done so, and you can find his full bio and learn more about him.
(00:21):
But welcome back Joth.
Joth (00:23):
Thanks, Geoff.
Appreciate it.
Good.
Be back.
Geoff (00:25):
Uh, we're gonna talk more about set logistics today.
Uh, you've got lots of experienceas a first ad, I think a second ad, and as a director, what does all of that look like?
What's the relationship between,those roles when you're on set?
That's what I wanna talk about today.
Joth (00:42):
Yeah, sure.
Uh, so the first ad is ultimatelyresponsible for basically keeping the machine moving and, making sure that everything is, done smoothly, efficiently, and safely.
Um, those are all sort of the,the three main priorities.
Um, you know, essentially we saythat the priority of the ads is to.
(01:06):
Get it in the can.
Um, there's a lot of movingparts and, uh, somebody needs to organize all of that and, and keep the whole process streamlined.
It's very easy to end up with chaos ona set because there's so many moving parts, so many different departments.
Every department's gottheir own responsibility.
(01:26):
Um, but you know, theysort of have blinders on.
Sometimes they're focused on.
Their immediate task and not alwayshow it fits all, into the big picture.
That's the job of the assistantdirectors to make sure that everything is working in harmony.
It's the director's responsibilityto make sure everything works creatively and the ad's job to make sure everything works logistically.
Geoff (01:49):
so the, director is getting the story told.
Joth (01:54):
Absolutely.
Geoff (01:55):
assistant director is making sure all the parts work so that the director can do his job.
Does
Joth (02:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ideally the director should bereally focused on getting great performances from their actors.
That's their priority.
Uh, whatever it takes for thedirector to be able to do that.
The assistant directorneeds to facilitate.
So, getting the actors ready,making sure that the right
actors for the right sceneare, you know, ready and in place when, the crew is ready,
(02:25):
making sure that the crew all knowswhat are we doing, what are we, uh, what are we setting up for?
What's happening after this sothey can be preparing for that.
and so on.
Yeah, it's a, it's abig logistical process.
Geoff (02:37):
So let's talk for a moment about first ad, second ad, uh, what the differences are and what each of them might be doing like on a daily basis.
Joth (02:46):
Yeah, so the first ad is really focused on
the shot
we are doing right now.
So, uh, whatever the crewis either shooting or
setting up for the ad is
prioritizing actually, andthen I'll go a step further.
Um,
and, and then what
happens after that
(03:07):
and what does today look like?
The second ad
is generally working on preparingfor the next day's work.
So they tend to be a day ahead.
Uh, they will often work back in a
trailer,
back in the
production
office.
They are going around
to different departments saying, Hey.
Uh, you know, tomorrow
we're using
(03:27):
this jib.
Tomorrow we have this stunt, uh, youknow, are you guys ready for that tomorrow wardrobe, you know, we go into a pool, are you ready for the costumes to get all wet?
And do we have everything we need toget our actors dried off and, and so on?
So they'll be talking to the differentdepartments throughout the day.
On what the next day's work isgonna entail to make sure that
(03:49):
when the
next day comes, the first ad haseverything they need to just implement.
Geoff (03:55):
Call times, perhaps that type of thing.
Joth (03:57):
Yeah.
Well, the first ad will itdepends on the relationship between the first and the second.
Um,
the first ad ultimately hasthe authority, will make the
final call.
The second ad
will often speculate on whatthey think the first ad's gonna
want.
you know, they have a lot ofsimilar knowledge, obviously, and similar information.
(04:19):
So they might say, we have a split,for example, which means we have partial daylight work, partial night
work,
So they, you know, they're looking at the
script as
well.
They're
looking at the scenes.
They know how much workis in each, and they might
say, you
know.
We
have roughly half and half, uh, I thinkwe might wanna shoot for a noon call, which basically means we'll go till midnight, half daylight, half night
(04:44):
work.
And then the first ad we will assess thatand say, yeah, I think Noon's perfect, or, no, we actually need to come in earlier for this, or what have you.
And it's a discussion and uh,and then the second ad applies whatever the first ad wants.
Geoff (05:00):
Mm-hmm.
What advice would you have forsomebody thinking they might want to fill this type of role?
what knowledge or experiencedo you think they should have?
What's the, the best routeto get into those roles?
Joth (05:13):
Uh, okay.
So two different questions.
The route to get in and what, whatexperience do they need to have?
I'd say, uh, first of all, the entrylevel position on any film set other than a free intern is a production assistant.
sometimes referred toas a set pa, so a set
PA works under
(05:33):
the assistant directors, sothey're part of the ad team
and they
help,
facilitate whatever weneed to make it happen.
Uh, a
lot of times that means, um, fanningout to let people know when we're rolling so that somebody's not, uh, you know, hammering, you know,
nearby when we're rollingsound, uh, stopping people from walking into the shot,
(05:56):
stuff like
that.
So they, they, just do a lotof accommodating, facilitating.
Communicating with people, uh, whateverthe a's instructions are and so on.
So that's a great entry level position.
Um, other, sometimes other departmentshave their own PAs as well.
Sometimes there might
be a camera PA, a wardrobepa. So for example, if you're interested in one of the other
(06:19):
departments, uh, besides the addepartment, you might see if there's a PA position in their department, which it's, again, it's like a runner, a gopher.
Uh, you know, and anything Ican do to help kind of position.
So that's the best way to get in, uh, ifyou wanna be an a, an ad. And so as a PA you get to spend a lot of time on set.
(06:43):
You get to understand all the differentroles on a set, what everybody does, who's responsible for what, and so on.
And so that starts to arm youfor what it takes to become a second assistant director.
Um, there's multiple second assistantdirectors on a film crew as well.
There's a key second assistantdirector, that's the one we were just talking about who does the call sheet.
(07:07):
And then there's second,second assistant director.
And then beyond that, there may beadditional second assistant directors.
if you're on a small project,you may only have one.
If you're on a Marvel Blockbuster, youmay have seven or eight second ads.
Um, with different responsibilities.
some are assigned to different units.
(07:27):
You might have a stunt unit, you mighthave a driving unit, um, an action unit.
And, uh, so you, you mayhave multiple second ads.
So while you have the second or thekey second working on tomorrow's work, as I mentioned, the second, second tends to be right on set near the first ad. Facilitating today's shot, the shot we're setting up right now.
(07:52):
So while I'm first thing, forexample, I have a second, second who's helping me set Background.
Background are what we refer to asthe extras on set, the atmosphere.
And uh, you know, if we're in a restaurantscene, all the other people sitting in the restaurant eating that don't have dialogue, uh, would be considered extras.
(08:15):
That has to be set.
That's the one creativeaspect of the ad's role.
well, maybe not the one, butit is, one of the bigger ones.
So creatively speaking, the ads tendto be the ones that set up all of the blocking, all of the movement of all of the non-speaking parts in a scene.
Um, if you have one in particular,let's say you've got a, a character on a sidewalk and, uh, somebody goes up and, you know, may a, a street performer and somebody goes up and throws money in, in his hat and he says, you know, thank you very much.
(08:51):
And then the guy keeps going, thatwould be considered a featured extra.
Because that extra, they stilldon't have lines, but they are actually called out in the script.
They actually have specificaction as opposed to just random passerby in the background.
so, you know, depending courseon how big the project is, we'll determine how many seconds you need.
(09:13):
You may need, several just to workwith all of the extras and to set them.
Um, so as a pa. Your next move wouldtypically be if you were to move into the ad department would be as a second, second ad or additional second ad when you're working as a second.
(09:33):
Second for a little while, you start tounderstand a bit more about department heads and, and bigger picture items.
Then you kind of move up to, tokey second ad. Um, and then the next step after that would be first ad. So that's the hierarchy.
Geoff (09:49):
very interesting.
now you've worked in all ofthose roles, is that correct?
Joth (09:53):
I have.
Yeah.
There, you know, there, actuallythere's one other sort of intermediate role that I didn't mention, uh, I did in the last podcast, which is, assistant Director trainee.
there is a training program that theDirectors Guild, offers that trains people to become assistant directors.
Um, there's only a handful ofthem, maybe a, dozen or two dozen.
(10:17):
in the country.
And so, um, if you're fortunate tobe able to get into that program, then it is a bit of a stepping stone.
You'll work for 400 days, which isessentially almost two years as an assistant director trainee.
The DGA will assign you to projectsand you'll basically kinda work as a shadow to the second ad.
(10:41):
And then when you finish your 400days, you become a second ad. So I actually was in that program, actually I, I started as a pa. So I was a pa, well, gosh, I'll go even further.
I started as an intern beforeI was ever in a paid position.
I worked for free on a set and, uh, andthen I worked my way up to PA and got, you know, basically minimum wage and.
(11:06):
The, the great thing again is thatit allowed me to really start to understand the inner workings of a set.
and then I was fortunate to getaccepted into that training program.
So I did 400 days as a DGA trainee.
Then I moved into the DGA asan assistant director, and was a second assistant director.
Was a second.
(11:26):
Second.
I was an additional second, so.
Depending on the projects I ended upon, I would either be working with background, I would be working with what we call first team, which is principal actors, getting them ready, getting through hair and makeup and so on.
Um,
by the
way, I
mentioned that the
second, second works on set with thefirst ad. you may have another second.
(11:48):
Second or an additional second.
Running first team back at base camp.
Getting the actors through hair andmakeup every morning get making sure that they know what we're doing.
Escorting them to and from the set.
Oh, I'm sorry.
I actually didn't answer thesecond part of your question.
The first one was how to get there.
The second was what arethe skills necessary?
That's an important one, and that'ssomething that I learned in the training program that, first of all, you have to have an absolute can-do attitude.
(12:16):
Um, you, you really need that tobe in the film industry at all.
Uh, it's gonna require a lot ofeffort, on your part, a lot of energy.
And, you know, it's not a nine to fivesit at a desk, punch a clock kind of job.
It's a kind of job where you dowhatever it takes to get the job done.
And so if you're not, you know.
(12:38):
Ready and willing and ableto do whatever it takes.
Yeah, you're not gonnalast very long, right?
You, you've really gotta be ready tojump in and help out and do whatever.
so that can do attitude is, high priority.
The second thing that's really importantin particular for the ads is diplomacy.
The ads are the management department.
(13:02):
so therefore we have authority.
We can essentially tellthe crew what to do.
However, we also have to answer tothe higher ups we have to answer to the studio, the producers.
Um, and then our principal actors,especially our lead actors, you know, they carry a lot of weight on a project.
(13:25):
There's not an authority scenariowith that, but you don't wanna ruffle feathers of your actors.
That causes a lot of problems.
So you have to be able to tell peoplewhat to do without people feeling like they're being told what to do.
It's a really fine line, and sodiplomacy is really critical.
(13:46):
You can't say, Hey, you, youknow, cut it out or do this now.
Even though technically youhave that authority, you ruffle feathers and you're gone.
You have to do it in a way thatrespects people, that treats people, as professionals, because everybody else has their jobs.
(14:06):
You have to really understandtheir priorities so you can come and meet them where they are to try and get what you need while allowing them to get what they need.
Because there's a lot of friction ona film set because every department, works for their department head.
They don't work for you, so to speak.
(14:29):
And so, you
know, for
example, if you work in thecamera department as an assistant camera, the DP is usually the
person who's gonna be
hiring
or allowing you to be hired on their team.
Ad don't hire camera team.
So
even though the ad has the authority tosay, Hey, you need to be doing this or
that
they wanna please their boss,which is gonna be the dp, and if the DP had them doing something different, you've got conflict.
(14:57):
So you have to understand
the hierarchy, what their prioritiesare, and again, what yours are and how you can meet them.
Um, so, so diplomacy is key.
Geoff (15:08):
Yeah, I mean, of what you're saying works of course, and is important in all areas of life, and especially in leadership.
So I I think very much what you'retalking about is leadership type roles
Joth (15:19):
Yeah.
Management.
Geoff (15:20):
Yeah.
And, doing it well is important.
Joth (15:24):
Absolutely.
Um, unfortunately, there are a lot of
people
on film sets that don't understandgood management skills, and there's reputations out there.
I. Some ads that are screamers or, youknow, just don't treat people right.
they make the rest of us lookbad and it's unfortunate.
(15:45):
Um, but the good ones are, calmand understanding and communicative
and those are
all things that are gonna make you areally strong ad and team player and you're gonna work a lot more often.
Geoff (15:59):
Yeah.
It also sounds to me like, one of thethings as you're, you're starting out and maybe working your way up, one of the things that you're doing is learning the different parts and the different departments of what's going on on a set.
And the more you know everyone else'sroles, while you may not know how to, to actually fulfill the role yourself, having an understanding of them is really gonna help you do your job.
Joth (16:23):
Yeah, you really need to put yourself in their shoes because here's the unfortunate.
Fortunate thing about the film industry,it's an entire world of freelancers.
Nobody has job security.
We work on that project andwhen that project's over, every last one of us is unemployed.
So when you're talking to a specialeffects guy who's setting up his pyrotechnics or whatever, uh, you needed to move quicker or you need him to do it somewhere else.
(16:51):
Remember that, that person's priority ismaking sure that that pyrotechnic goes off exactly as planned and that it's perfect because that's how he gets his next job.
And so anything you do to curb that isgonna be met with resistance, right?
So they aren't always the crew isnot always gonna cooperate if you aren't, again, coming alongside them.
(17:16):
Now if you have the understandingthat, okay, what this person requires, let's say it's a prop person and they're building a prop or something.
Okay?
I know that, that the producers or thedirector has been coming down hard on them to make sure that this is done on time or that it looks a certain way and you know, they need to use the drill and we're shooting and you need them to be quiet.
(17:40):
So it's rather than just say, Hey, cut itout, you know, you need to stop right now.
You need to say, Hey, you know,can you go do that over there?
Or How much more time do you need?
Maybe, maybe we can stall.
I mean, maybe it's like, well, I onlyneed two more minutes and then I'm done.
Okay.
You know what?
We might be able to afford to taketwo minutes and like, okay, well then, then I'm gonna let the gaffer tweak the light that he was just talking about.
(18:07):
So finish up.
But you know, so it's communicationand it's understanding what that person needs, understanding that the gaffer has requested, he needs a minute, you know, and again, it's this big dance, all right?
But the Big thing is that you have to
understand what people require andthen you have to really be diplomatic and respectful of their needs.
Geoff (18:28):
Well, Joth, you've given us a really good perspective on the logistics and the roles, on set, especially with regards to, uh, assistant directors and the various roles that come under that.
Um, now your experience, of course,goes into directing as well, which is, different again, from any of those roles.
What I would like you to do is take afew moments and tell us about your course because, you've got a very extensive course, it's called Directing Your Movie.
(18:55):
Uh, we're actually, it'savailable on our website.
for those who are listening, youcan go to, uh, ffa association.com and find it under online courses.
But tell us about thatcourse right now, please.
Joth (19:08):
Yeah.
Well first of all, I started as adirector, um, early on with short films, and then I moved into assistant directing because I had opportunities.
I really enjoyed it and, uh, andthen it kind of stuck for a while.
And then later in recent years,I've gone back to directing again.
I
still
assistant direct as well.
(19:29):
I
I like both.
Um, but
because I've done so much assistantdirecting, which is essentially the right hand man of the director, I have worked with so many directors.
I have seen so many
directors in action.
some who are amazing, and some who are
terrible.
(19:49):
I've been able to learn so muchfrom watching them and experiencing what they're going through.
And it's, ironic because Ioften say, 'cause, I mean,
I've worked with some of the
best directors in the business.
I learned way more from the terrible onesbecause the best directors make it look so
easy.
it's almost like sleightof hand, you know?
(20:10):
Wow.
How did they do that?
That was amazing.
They said one thing and gotexactly what they needed.
So it's a little harder to discern,but the bad directors, it's super easy to see what doesn't work.
You know?
Whoa, okay.
When you approach somebody likethat, you don't get what you're looking for, you know, or you, your miscommunication is really causing, a problem with the crew and so on.
(20:36):
so I knew that AI knew I had a lotto offer and so I thought, you know,
I wanna put something togetherfrom a logistics standpoint on directing, because so often a lot of
what you read or watch on directingis about the creative side which is super important, but a lot of people don't really talk about the nuts and bolts of directing what is required from a, director.
(21:02):
What do you do when you,when you first get on set,
you know, what's the firstthing a director does?
A lot of people it'll talkabout things like that.
What's the second thing you do?
You know, it's just not
the sort of thing yougenerally talk about.
Um, and so, so I talk about thespecifics of the day-to-day, what that
looks like in pre-production
(21:23):
When you're in development, developingthe story, the script casting, uh, scouting, and then what that looks like
when you're actually shooting, whenyou're onset during production.
What's the day to day look like?
and then
post-production, I mean,it's, it's a long process.
There's a lot to it, and mycourse goes step by step.
(21:43):
I think there's 64 segments,uh, covering, each one, um, from A to Z all the way through.
Geoff (21:51):
mm-hmm.
Sounds, very extensive
Joth (21:54):
It's very thorough.
Geoff (21:55):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, as I mentioned, you can find thatcourse, um, under online courses on our website, faf association.com.
Uh, how might they best knowwhether it's suited for them?
Joth (22:09):
Well, there's a trailer for the, for the course and, and I believe you have that on your site as well.
it's just a brief, it's a, it's a two orthree minute trailer where I basically kind of give you a snippet into a moment honest film set where I talk about all of the different roles and it's the kind of thing that either really excites you or completely bores you.
(22:33):
And I think that's one way to know whetheror not film is for you, if that trailer.
Sounds super exciting Then this isdefinitely the thing for you, and I think you'll get a lot out of that course.
Geoff (22:44):
So tell us about Whitestone Entertainment, your production company, and, uh, what you've been working on or what's coming up.
Joth (22:51):
you know, it's initially way back when I came out of film school and, and started doing short films.
It was Whitestone Productions.
Um, as I got more involved inthe film industry and, I realized that what really sets great films apart is whether or not they're,
entertaining.
and I thought, you know what?
It's not just enough toactually make a movie.
(23:13):
You gotta make it great.
You gotta make it entertaining.
And that's when I changed the companyname to Whitestone Entertainment.
Um, Whitestone, which by the waycomes from Revelations two 17,
where Jesus says, I giveyou each a white stone.
He's making reference to in their daysof hearing, court trials, jurors would be given a white and a black stone, and at the end of the testimonies, they would put a white or a black stone in a pouch to determine guilty or not guilty.
(23:42):
And I always love that knowing.
Jesus says, in Revelations, I give youeach a not guilty verdict, a white stone.
So that's where the nameof my company comes from.
Um, and Whitestone is essentially, thoseare projects that originate with me.
So right now we have a feature film anddevelopment, uh, an action thriller.
Actually, we're in pre-production,we're casting as we speak.
(24:04):
it's an action thriller that, um,myself and my writing partner, Matthew Easton wrote and, um, we are hoping to shoot it later this year in New Mexico.
Geoff (24:14):
Cool, cool, cool.
So you still work on projectsfor other production companies.
You get hired as a director,hired as a first ad or second ad, but your own projects are done through Whitestone Entertainment.
Joth (24:26):
Yeah, that's correct.
So I, I do direct for other people.
Those would not beconsidered a white stone.
White Stone is a project that,yeah, that, that comes from me.
Yeah.
Geoff (24:35):
We'll get links in the show notes for, uh, your production company and also tell us where people can find you if they wanna, learn more.
Joth (24:43):
Sure.
Um, well, my production companywebsite is whitestone entertainment.com
and, uh, I'm on social media.
I'm, I'm mostly on.
Facebook.
I post a lot of behind thescenes photos from a lot of the sets that I work on there.
I'm also on Instagram.
I'm on LinkedIn.
but you'll see, you'll get themost out of the experience if you followed me on Facebook.
Geoff (25:06):
Cool.
Well, I really appreciateyour, um, your input today.
I think for me.
It's been a, a unique interviewin that we haven't really covered this type of stuff, before.
And, you know, to have somebodywalk through the logistics of set and, uh, the roles on set.
I think it's very valuable forthose who aren't so familiar.
Joth (25:28):
Well, you know, but, that's one thing I wanted to mention by the way, is a lot of people, when they think they wanna go into film, they all think they wanna be the director or.
the producer.
And don't realize that there's,uh, probably 150 different things you can do on a film set and so many more opportunities.
I mean, there's only onedirector on any given movie, but you might have eight grips.
(25:51):
So, you know, that's a great way
to get involved in production.
Uh, and the other thing is,of course, if you're directing
and you are new, you're by nature, right?
You're gonna be working witha pretty inexperienced team.
And so you're not really going to learna whole lot about how the greats do it.
(26:12):
But if you get yourself on aprofessional film set with bigger, you know, more experienced people.
in a smaller role, then you can learn.
And so get yourself onto a film set as aset costumer, as a grip or an electrician or a props person or DIT or script supervisor or special effects or stunts.
(26:34):
I could go on and on.
There's so many different,assets, on a film set, and not everybody needs to be the director.
or the producer.
Geoff (26:43):
Yeah.
And if your goal is to become a director,you can learn a lot along the way.
Joth (26:47):
Well the other thing is that you really need the respect of the crew.
'cause you are at the helm and if youhave no clue what it is they do, it's gonna be very difficult to get that.
So the most respected directorsare the ones that have a sense of what it is their crew is doing and why and how they can help.
(27:10):
and that just goes a long waytoward having a really harmonious work environment, which also means
that
it's much easier for the director to.
get what they want because there's,
two kinds.
of sets.
There's sets.
of harmony and sets of chaos, and therecan be a lot of, um, antagonism if you have a director who's clueless or doesn't treat the crew right, or with respect.
(27:35):
Then there's gonna be a lot of, uh,a lot of friction and it's not gonna be a pleasant experience and the director's not gonna get what they want.
When they treat their crew withrespect, it's a lot easier to get amazing stuff because then the crew is, willing to go above and beyond or to give it their all to make sure that they're giving the director their best.
(27:57):
And that's ultimately whatyou would want as a filmmaker.
Geoff (27:59):
Mm-hmm.
Great advice.
Joth, thank you so much for sharing today.
It's been great having you.
, a lot of deep stuff here andI think a lot of value for our listeners, so I really appreciate it.
Thank you so much for takingyour time and sharing.
Joth (28:13):
Yeah.
Thanks so much, Geoff.
I enjoyed it.
Appreciate it.
Geoff (28:15):
Take care, and I remind everyone, take look for directing your movie.
just go to faf association.comand online courses.
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!