September 4, 2024 • 27 mins
Episode 74 - The Chosen’s Kirk Woller: A Lifetime of Preparation
In this episode of the Faith and Family Filmmakers Podcast, hosts Geoffrey and Jaclyn Whitt interview acclaimed actor Kirk Woller. With 39 years of acting experience, including over 170 film and TV appearances, Kirk shares his journey from his first acting role in third grade to his current role as Gaius in 'The Chosen.' He delves into his early Journey, training under legends like Sanford Meisner, and his passion for teaching the craft through his Woller Technique. Kirk also discusses his long-standing collaboration with Dallas Jenkins and the incredible evolution of 'The Chosen' series.
Highlights Include:
- Kirk's Early Beginnings
- Pursuing Acting Against the Odds
- Training and Education in Acting
- Training with Sanford Meisner
- The Philosophy of Acting
- Kirk's Mentorship Program
- The Woller Technique
Online mentorship sessions https://www.actorklass.com/
Actor training, audition prep and mentoring https://thewollertechnique.com/
Bio:
Kirk Woller has 39 years of acting experience and 31 years earning a living in film and television. With over 170 film and television appearances, he has worked with Oscar winning directors Steven Spielberg and Clint Eastwood. And has acted directly opposite Jodie Foster, Kathy Bates, Tom Cruise, Woody Harrelson, and Samuel L. Jackson, to name a few. You probably know him from many of his other works, but we all know him as Gaius from The Chosen. Here are some highlights from Kirk’s Career:
- 170+ Film & Television appearances working with Oscar winning directors Steven Spielberg, Clint Eastwood, Ang Lee, and Oscar nominated Wolfgang Petersen, and Emmy winners Paris Barclay, John Frankenheimer and more
- Directly opposite Oscar winners Jodie Foster, Forest Whitaker, Kathy Bates, Louis Gossett Jr., Holly Hunter, and Oscar nominated Tom Cruise, Woody Harrelson, Samuel L. Jackson, Alec Baldwin, George Segal, Don Cheadle, Tim Roth and Alfre Woodard
- 39 years Acting experience
- 30 stage Plays at professional regional & independent theaters nation-wide
- 36 years Screen Actor Guild member
- 31 years Film Industry -earning living in Film & TV
- 20% Career booking ratio -auditions to paid work
Jaclyn's Book, In the Beginning, Middle, and End https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D9R7XS9V
The Faith & Family Filmmakers podcast helps filmmakers who share a Christian worldview stay in touch, informed, and inspired. Releasing new episodes every week, we interview experts from varying fields of filmmaking; from screenwriters, actors, directors, and producers, to film scorers, talent agents, and distributors.
It is produced and hosted by Geoffrey Whitt and Jaclyn Whitt , and is brought to you by the Faith & Family Filmmakers Association
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Geoff (00:00):
Welcome to the Faith and Family Filmmakers Podcast I'm Geoff
Jaclyn (00:03):
And I'm Jaclyn.
Geoff (00:04):
and we're excited to be back with you today and to have our special guest prolific and acclaimed actor Kirk Wohler
Jaclyn (00:12):
Kirk Waller has 39 years of acting experience and 31 years earning a living in film and television.
With over 170 film and televisionappearances, he has worked with Oscar winning directors Steven Spielberg and Clint Eastwood.
And has acted directly opposite JodieFoster, Kathy Bates, Tom Cruise, Woody Harrelson, and Samuel L.
(00:34):
Jackson, to name a few.
You probably know him from manyof his other works, but we all know him as Gaius from The Chosen.
Welcome to the show, Kirk Waller.
Kirk (00:44):
Thank you.
Yeah, thank you both.
It's an, it's really an honorand a pleasure, first of all, to both meet you, uh, and to be here.
Thank you so much for having me.
Jaclyn (00:53):
so we want to get to know you and how you got started.
I mean, obviously I, I read, some ofyour amazing journeys that you've been on, but how did you even get started?
Kirk (01:01):
I think, well, if we go way back, my third grade teacher, Mrs.
Chase, so I was eight, decided to makeme the, the lead of the classroom play.
And so, Uh, I have no idea why,but I memorized all the lines.
we did it, and I don'tknow, I really got into it.
And it was the first time thatother students came up and go, Hey, you did a pretty good job there.
(01:26):
You know, so I think other than momand dad, that was the first time somebody said something positive.
about me or my talents, let's say.
And that was when I was 8 years old, butI didn't get back to it until I was 25.
So there's a huge gap.
My parents are from Germany.
so I'm a first generation Americanand an acting career was not exactly what mom and dad thought would be a wise career decision.
(01:52):
So I took the path of, uh, Iended up getting an undergraduate degree in business and marketing and a minor in psychology.
I was the class presidentof my business school.
I started, uh, like a radio show, um,and a TV show, kind of a entertainment tonight type of TV show on campus.
anyway, I had a job offer from Cloroxto sell bleach out of, uh, college, uh, Fast Track Management program and all of this, and I just dropped it and said, I don't want to do this.
(02:22):
Much to the chagrin of my mom anddad and family, and I moved back to where I was born, uh, Seattle, that area, and started over.
And, uh, at 25 started taking danceclasses, got a private teacher for a while, Pat French, whose husband was a big radio personality in Seattle at the time, but she was teaching, so I started there.
(02:45):
I did everything I could.
Dancing, I was in a movement company,uh, auditioning, I was a hand model for a while, believe it or not, my hands, uh, yeah, for Apple, yeah, Apple computer, and, all kinds of, different, advertising, and then I went to North Seattle Community College, and a woman there named Diane Hostetler started to put me in her plays, and then after a couple of years, a year and a half, she said, you gotta audition for the ERDAs, And I said, what's an ERDA?
(03:13):
And she said it was the Urban Leagueof Resident Theatre Association.
So it was all the best theatre schoolsin the country, also including league schools like Harvard, Juilliard, Yale.
All these very prestigious programs.
So I got in my old rabbit, beaterrabbit, and I drove down from Seattle all the way to Long Beach, and auditioned for these schools.
(03:35):
it was dramatic monologueand then a comedic monologue.
And you would just go from room to room.
You go here, it was Rutgers.
Here it was Yale.
And then, and then, and thenall the way down the line.
And out of that, and they only acceptlike 12 people a year, seven men, And five women, each of these programs, but I was blessed enough to get two offers at Rutgers, uh, and then, uh, Uh, the FSU Oslo Conservatory of Professional Actor Training in Florida.
(04:01):
So I took that because there wasalso an angel that paid enough that I could get a small apartment, a humble little existence.
So all I did for two years wastheater, Shakespeare, Shaw.
Chekhov, Moyer, the classics, studieddiction and accents, and I'm a certified actor combatant, meaning I'm basically a stuntman for the stage, and rapier and dagger, broadsword and unarmed.
(04:24):
So I just had a, yeah, verydeep classical training, uh, I don't know, should I keep going?
I'm almost done.
I feel like that, I'm talking too
Geoff (04:33):
No, no, they're
Jaclyn (04:34):
Sure.
Sure.
Yeah, we're, we're going to bringit into how you got involved in the chosen, but, yeah, carry on.
It's good
Kirk (04:40):
Okay, um, and so after that, I auditioned, I went to FSU for two years.
After I finished that graduate program,I moved back to Seattle, and then, have you guys ever heard of Sanford Meisner?
Geoff (04:53):
The Meissner technique?
Jaclyn (04:55):
Yes.
Yeah.
Kirk (04:56):
good job, yeah.
I ended up being invited to trainwith him here in Los Angeles.
It was a one month intensive.
He's one of the greatest actingteachers in the last hundred years.
it was a group theater out of NewYork City and all these people went to meet Konstantin Stanislavski.
For those of you out therewho are aspiring to be actors, read Konstantin Stanislavski.
(05:17):
He's got a number of different books,but he was doing something revolutionary.
It used to be like all this big acting,uh, and the acting we know today, basically he's the grandfather of it all.
So all these people went to Paris.
And four different main schools ofthought were derived from their time with Konstantin Stanislavsky, and he was in the Moscow Art Theatre, and that was also, you know, it was a big sort of movement in naturalism.
(05:44):
And Chekhov was also partof that, Anton Chekhov.
So, it was, uh, Lee Strasberg, UtaHagen, Stella Adler, and Sanford Meisner.
So all the greatest actors thatyou know, from Brando, to Robert Duvall, to anybody you can think of.
All the big stars.
James Dean.
They all trained with one of those people.
(06:06):
So I was really grateful and veryexcited to train with Sanford Meisner because he's trained some of my favorite actors of all time, Robert Duvall.
Uh, the list goes on.
It's, it's a huge list,of wonderful actors.
So, I did the month intensiveand he liked me enough.
He said, I want you tocontinue training with me.
So I trained with him forfive years up until his death.
(06:27):
and then we also created the SanformiserCenter for the Arts and we were doing theater here in Los Angeles and winning theater picks of the week.
And from that we had, uh,you know, like showcases.
And that's how I got my first agent.
And then I just started auditioningand slowly but surely I started making my living as an actor.
So that's kind of a condensedversion of how I got to where I am.
(06:48):
From an eight year old to.
where I am now with, that experience thatyou mentioned at the top of the show.
But it's been a longjourney, a lot of hard work.
Geoff (06:56):
sounds like it.
Did your transition to screenhappen during some of that time that you were training with Meissner?
Or, was it after then?
Kirk (07:03):
It was, uh, yeah, it's kind of simultaneous.
my roots are in theater, of course.
That's what I did primarily.
But I always loved film becauseof the intimacy of film.
Jaclyn (07:16):
Mm hmm.
Kirk (07:16):
Theater, by its very nature, is a lie.
in terms of humanity and human connection.
Because with theater, first of all,I have to turn out three quarters of my body so everybody can see me.
But if I'm talking to a personnormally, I'm doing this.
I can't do that on stage.
(07:36):
So that right there is the first.
quote unquote, non truthof regular life, right?
The next thing is I've got thisbeautiful elderly couple way in the back.
So I have to project my voice sothey can hear, how are you today?
And like, that's the second non truth.
so I've always been attracted to theintimacy of film and always wanted to do film, but the training and the approach, it's very similar.
(08:03):
It's just one is more presentationalwhere the other is more behavioral.
Um, So, yeah, I always wanted to dofilm, but, when I researched all these people from Robert Duvall and, you know, all these actors, I, could break out a list, but, uh, that Sandy Train, they all started in the theater, so I said, that's what I need to do, because it's a grounding, it's a grounding force, and the one thing I always told myself as well is, my goal is to be so good that I can't be ignored.
(08:36):
Mm
wasn't about fame or fortune.
It was about being reallygood at what I did.
so I have spent since I was 25 till now.
I get up every day to perfect thatand I keep it really real and humble.
Um, it's about the work.
It's about getting better all the time.
(08:58):
And so it's work ethic that comes with it.
And it's a, it's a discipline like anyother discipline, any other artist, you guys being artists with your podcast and how you live your life, you know what it takes you have to be consistent.
Jaclyn (09:11):
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
One of the things that we do is, uh,we definitely talk about pursuing things with a spirit of excellence.
And so I appreciate what you're sayingbecause that is very much what it is, you know, recognizing that you can always be better and to continue to pursue that and, you know, don't let good enough, be good enough,
Kirk (09:30):
yeah, no, no, I get up every single day as I prepare for Season 5.
I'm going through the materialevery single day, you know.
I just work really, really hard,um, and it's a simple philosophy.
I think you get rewarded in publicfor what you practice in private.
And so I spend a lot of timejust working on the material.
(09:53):
And yeah, it's, there's no room for ego.
It's not about me.
the way I was trained, certainly Samfrom Meisner, is I'm watching you.
You tell me how to say my linesbased on how you just said yours.
And so it's more to it thanthat, but I forget about myself.
Contrary to popularbelief, acting is egoless.
I'm not thinking about myself.
I'm thinking about you and watching you.
(10:15):
and being present.
So there's a freedom in that.
So it's not like me, me, me, look at me.
Being interested instead oftrying to be interesting.
It's like pay attention insteadof trying to get attention.
it's all in that vein.
and that just takes practice, butyeah, man, I'm just a hard worker.
I'm not the most talented guy, neverhave been, but I just work my butt off.
Geoff (10:37):
Well, it sounds like it's brought you lots of opportunities.
Kirk (10:39):
Yes, sir.
I'm very blessed and grateful.
Yeah.
Geoff (10:41):
mm hmm.
what you were just saying, made methink, as we get into the second half of our interview, we're not, ready for that yet, but I'd certainly like to give our, our listeners, especially actors, some more, of your, Wisdom, you're a coach, a teacher.
We'll talk about, uh, we'll talk aboutactor class and the Wohler technique.
why don't you go ahead and tellus a little bit about that now?
but we'd like to get into some, advice,some tips, those types of things, things that will help other actors along in their careers as we get into the second half of our interview.
(11:08):
But right now, tell us aboutyour, classes, workshops, and the programs that you have.
Kirk (11:11):
Yeah.
I started this about four years ago.
Never intended to mentor in 2019.
I had this great idea ofonline and acting classes.
I'm telling you.
No one was doing it.
And
Jaclyn (11:23):
Yeah.
In
Kirk (11:24):
20 no one.
No one,
Geoff (11:26):
Well, that wasn't very long
Kirk (11:27):
no, it wasn't.
And I, I was like, thisis a really good idea.
Using my business background.
Like what did Bezos do?
Jeff Bezos, Amazon.
People have been making stuffand buying stuff, but he got it to my door in two days.
He mastered, fulfill.
That's his genius.
Uber.
People needed a ride,people wanted a ride.
He just made an app.
So I thought, I'm going to createActor Class, with a K in homage to my German heritage, Actor Class, Klasse.
(11:54):
and I'm going to create a platformwhere all these amazing working actor friends of mine who are classically trained like me I hooked them up with people who want to be well trained actors in a mentorship style one on one.
So that was my idea in 2019.
2020 I opened the doors and thentwo months later COVID hit and every acting teacher on planet earth was now teaching online.
Jaclyn (12:19):
Online.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm hmm.
Kirk (12:21):
uh, there went my innovative idea, but slowly but surely, I never intended to mentor, but I started to mentor Dallas Jenkins, the creator and director of The Chosen, made a lovely post, and some people responded, and I was going to hook them up with somebody else, and they said, no, no, no, we want to train with you, and I Wasn't even in the headspace for that, but I had friends who were and had done it.
That's what I was trying to connect.
(12:42):
Anyway, I ended up doing it andI've been doing it now for almost four years and I absolutely love it.
I love passing along the craft of acting.
There is nothing on planet Earth thatI enjoy more and that time literally, there is no such thing as time.
There's only two things that dothat for me, seriously, is when I'm working as an actor and when I'm Working with my students.
(13:07):
Two hours feels like five minutes.
And there's nothing else onearth that involves me to that capacity, so I love it just as much as I love the craft of acting.
And I think it's important too, topass this stuff along, in the right way, because I trained with Sanford Meisner directly, and there's a lot of people that claim to know the Meisner technique and they really don't.
(13:28):
And that personally bothers me, of course.
So.
There's only one person betweenthe great Sanford Meisner and you, for example, and that's me.
So all these other people here orsomething and then they become the masters of whatever community they're in and it's, uh, it's a shame.
Jaclyn (13:44):
where can people find your classes if they're like saying, Hey, I want to see what this is about and you know, I want in, where can they find you?
Kirk (13:52):
There's two sources.
The first is actorclass.
com, and that's with a K, actor, likeyou know it, and then class instead of a C, it's spelled with a K, dot com.
there, you will find, I havethis monthly mentorship.
I have a group mentor once amonth, actors, writers, directors.
(14:12):
Everybody from the industry,and I interview them for about 45 minutes to an hour, and then we open it up for questions.
I have casting directors.
I've had some really big names, certainlyalso in the Christian world and beyond.
and it's 15 bucks a month.
It's nothing.
It's 15 to hear from mastersat what they're doing.
There's that part of it.
(14:33):
And then, for more specificsabout what I do as a mentor, you would go to thewallertechnique.
com And I'm, maybe youguys will post that.
Or do I need to spell it,
or?
Okay, cool.
And there you'll know, you'llfind out more about me and about my approach to the craft.
and then yeah, so I teach oneon one or two on one and in approximately 28 sessions, I will give you a craft of acting.
(15:02):
That's reliable.
That's dependable.
That works.
it's not hearsay.
I continue to make my living as an actor.
I know what it takes to be onset and how all of that works.
And I pass along everything I know.
And so you'll have a technique inabout 28 of these one on one or two on one sessions, but then you got to get up every day and perfect that.
(15:24):
And I've spent the restof my life doing that.
So I really shortcut it for people.
I made a lot of mistakes along the wayand we could get into some of the mistakes I made, uh, in, in the second half.
But yeah, are the two things.
If you want to just start with the15 thing, I mean, it's priceless.
Like this Saturday, I have my manager
Geoff (15:43):
Mm hmm.
Kirk (15:44):
who has represented me for 23 years.
And so, like, anybody that wantsto get an agent, hear from a guy that's been doing it for more than 23 years, this guy's amazing.
Like, that's priceless.
I wish there was somethinglike this when I was starting
Jaclyn (15:57):
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Kirk (15:59):
could just tell it like it is.
Just tell me what to do.
When I started, I was like,just give me the book.
How do I act?
Just tell me what to do and I will do it.
I wish it was
that
Jaclyn (16:09):
it's incredibly valuable.
the film industry seems like such amysterious thing for so many people and it definitely seemed for a long time that it, was mysterious, that, you know, breaking into it was kind of like, There was a way to do it, but nobody would tell you.
Kirk (16:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I
Jaclyn (16:26):
And now I think people are breaking down those walls and saying, no, I'm going to hand my hand to you and I'm going to pull you up.
I'm going to show you how to do this.
So yeah, extremely valuable.
Geoff (16:35):
Let me ask you, with regards to your Waller technique, the 28 sessions, are you primarily, able to help people who have some experience and training already or, would it be a good start for people, wanting to start from scratch?
Kirk (16:48):
I prefer people who are starting from scratch,
because the problem withthe craft of acting and bad.
teachers, mentors, is they'regoing to teach you bad habits.
Jaclyn (17:00):
Mm
Kirk (17:00):
And somebody that doesn't, I've taken some students and I'm really excited because my students are working.
I didn't know if that would work orhow it would work, or if I could even pass along what is my technique, but I figured it out and I pass it along.
And I'm very clear about what I do.
And how to pass it on,and they're all working.
Many of those peoplehad never acted before.
And one of my students just did a bigHallmark, was the lead of a Hallmark film.
(17:24):
but I can take somebody that hasa technique, Whatever that is, and help them break certain habits that keep them from, being truthful under imaginary circumstances.
So, take the wide range.
I don't typically train anybodywho's under 18, but I think my oldest student is 72.
yeah, 72 or 70, maybe even older.
(17:45):
Amazing character actor.
He's been doing it a while, butWanted to hone in and be more specific for film and television.
He's done a lot of theater.
it's the wide range So yeahnew people existing people.
my goal is simple.
It's two things.
I want you To be grounded inyourself and I want you to work and make money doing it.
Geoff (18:06):
Cool.
Kirk (18:06):
That's that's what I
focus on.
Jaclyn (18:08):
So good.
Geoff (18:09):
Before we move on, let's talk about The Chosen.
as mentioned at the beginning, mostof our listeners, of course, are in that world of faith based filmmaking, um, so it's certainly of interest.
it's been four seasons and,did you start in season one?
I don't know whencharacter was introduced.
Oh, you remember.
She remembers things like that more than
me.
(18:30):
Tell us a bit about the experience.
and one of the things that intriguesme is, um, of course you have experience on, major, studio sets and obviously smaller independent sets.
uh, The Chosen certainly was.
has probably morphed quite a bit.
It certainly was a smallindependent set when it started.
but, tell us your journey, whatit was like being on set at the beginning compared to now.
Kirk (18:52):
I'll start with this.
I have been friends with and have workedwith You Dallas Jenkins for 25 years.
Geoff (19:00):
It's a long time.
Kirk (19:00):
yep.
I met him in 1999.
A friend recommended, they wereturning his dad's book, Left Behind, Jerry Jenkins, into a movie.
And a friend thought I'd begreat for Nikolai Kapernia.
I think it was the Antichrist character.
I played my share of sortof bad guys, if you will.
And so I sent a picture, a resume,and a reel back to the production company in Louisville, Kentucky.
(19:25):
And I was in Los Angeles at the time.
I was making my living as an actor,but I wanted to do something I was just tired of murder and mayhem, basically.
And I wanted to do realstories like we had in theater.
You know, I was getting hired a lot toplay a lot of bad guys, so to speak.
Anyway, three days later I got acall from a guy named Dallas Jenkins.
And, also a producer and they wereexcited because I was a working actor and that a working actor would be interested in what they're doing.
(19:53):
They were thrilled about that.
Also, Jerry and Dallas werehuge, blue fans, and my character killed Andy Sipowicz Jr.
And that clip was on the,the reel that I sent them.
So there was a, a nice connectionthere, and that's where it started.
So I've been in everythingDallas has done.
for over 25 years, including afilm I just did with him, The Best Christmas Pageant Ever.
(20:15):
We shot that in Canada, it'sgoing to come out this November.
Anyway So he just asked meif I'd love to be a part.
I was like, it's always a joke.
you know what I mean?
Yeah, of course.
Like you don't even have to ask meanytime because the Dallas Jenkins set to talk about the experience, a Dallas Jenkins and I'm not just saying this, it's the best sets I've ever been on in my entire career.
Geoff (20:36):
Wow.
Kirk (20:37):
because of him and his philosophy, or this is the way I take away it, although he's never really said it, it's just, Great people, healthy environment, and compelling stories.
Great stories, and Dallasis smart how he casts.
He doesn't cast divas.
He casts real people.
He has a great eye for the truth.
(20:59):
I've been watching himdo this now for 25 years.
No one was paying attention.
I was sleeping in his basement.
It was a nice basement, but justto give you context, and we were doing these short films.
No one was paying attention.
He never really got any footing withall the feature films and shorts that we were doing until The Shepherd.
And then that's when thingssort of took off, obviously.
(21:19):
So it was no differentfor me when we started.
It's Dallas Jenkins.
It's great.
It's going to be a heartfelt story.
I'm playing an interestingcharacter and it was fantastic and continues to be fantastic.
But yeah, when we started out, itwas like, Very low budget, nothing.
You know what I mean?
And now it's, I am literallywitnessing the birth of a studio.
Geoff (21:41):
Yeah.
Kirk (21:41):
grass and trailers to, the first soundstage made to be a soundstage in the state of Texas.
And now we got two of them.
And then we got four buildings.
And then we've got these two 25unit actor bungalows, which are like little apartments when you're working that you can stay at.
They have a shower.
It's like, it's unbelievable.
It started with nothing, andthen they built a 15 million dollar city that's real.
(22:06):
Capernaum.
And it's real.
It's not fake and foam.
It's rock.
It's just unbelievable what's happened.
And, uh, it's extraordinary.
And it's just an honor and a blessingand a lifetime to be a part of it.
Jaclyn (22:19):
Awesome.
Geoff (22:20):
Well, that's, uh, that's very cool.
And, That's been a journey forthe viewers and the fans as well, because so appreciated.
And it's not hard to tell, ofcourse, if you just go online for a minute and you can see how much value and how much appreciation there is out there for the Chosen.
Kirk (22:35):
yeah, it's, it's astounding.
you know, I've been doing this along time, and sometimes people recognize me, but not that often, I mean, you know, they look at me weird at the grocery store, like, did I go to high school with that guy?
They couldn't quite ever
place me.
played enough varied characters,but now people do recognize me more.
Every single person has a heart ofgold, they're lovely, they're grateful, they're gracious, they're kind, and they, are just so taken by the series.
(23:05):
So to be recognized for something that'sso special is such an honor for me.
And it's such a pleasureto talk to these people.
We have this thing called ChosenConwhere, I'm not joking, in a span of two hours, you meet 000 people.
And so you stand there and they come up.
Nice to meet you.
Take a picture.
Nice to meet you.
Take a picture.
I would say there were four differentcouples that came up to me and said, you saved our marriage.
Geoff (23:30):
Wow.
Kirk (23:31):
nice to meet you.
You saved our marriage.
It's just so, you don't have timeto get into specifics, but it's just so deep and so touching, the impact the show is having on people.
Yeah, so it's an honor anda blessing, I'll tell you.
Jaclyn (23:45):
Amazing.
Kirk (23:46):
the journey that my character, Gaius, has taken.
I had no idea when we started that that Is
Jaclyn (23:52):
I was going to ask you that if you had any clue that he was going to end up being the character he became.
Kirk (23:58):
well, Dallas.
Well, we did the firstepisodes, four episodes in 2018.
Then we did the next four for season one,like in the end of 2019 or 2020 maybe.
So it was like over a year and ahalf later or something like that.
No, never tells me anything.
Uh, I don't know what's going tohappen until I get the scripts every season, including season 5.
(24:22):
You all kind of wait to get it,and I like that he does that.
It's frustrating sometimes,because you want to know.
Uh, but no, I sit down and I readit just like you guys watch it.
Oh my You know,
I don't know.
Have you guys seen season 4 yet?
Geoff (24:35):
Yes.
Kirk (24:36):
yeah.
Can we talk about that?
I don't know how much time we
have.
Jaclyn (24:39):
Absolutely.
Um, but wait, wait, wait.
can we do that in the next episode?
We got to wrap this one up.
Geoff (24:44):
Sure.
Okay.
Well, it's been so goodhearing all of that.
And you know what?
In the next episode, we'regoing to talk more about acting.
We're going to go deeper into yourtechnique and some things that can be helpful to other actors.
But also, I want to go a littlefurther with the chosen as
well.
Because were kind of heading into somethings there that were very interesting.
And so, uh, we'll just take thisopportunity to thank you, uh, thank you so much for your time and, uh, for sharing with us today.
(25:12):
It's been, very enjoyableand, and so great to meet you.
Kirk (25:14):
Likewise.
Thank you guys both for having me.
You're both so lovely.
Grateful to be here.
Bless.
Jaclyn (25:19):
Thank you.
God bless.
Bye.
Welcome to the Faith and Family Filmmakers Podcast I'm Geoff
Jaclyn (00:03):
And I'm Jaclyn.
Geoff (00:04):
and we're excited to be back with you today and to have our special guest prolific and acclaimed actor Kirk Wohler
Jaclyn (00:12):
Kirk Waller has 39 years of acting experience and 31 years earning a living in film and television.
With over 170 film and televisionappearances, he has worked with Oscar winning directors Steven Spielberg and Clint Eastwood.
And has acted directly opposite JodieFoster, Kathy Bates, Tom Cruise, Woody Harrelson, and Samuel L.
(00:34):
Jackson, to name a few.
You probably know him from manyof his other works, but we all know him as Gaius from The Chosen.
Welcome to the show, Kirk Waller.
Kirk (00:44):
Thank you.
Yeah, thank you both.
It's an, it's really an honorand a pleasure, first of all, to both meet you, uh, and to be here.
Thank you so much for having me.
Jaclyn (00:53):
so we want to get to know you and how you got started.
I mean, obviously I, I read, some ofyour amazing journeys that you've been on, but how did you even get started?
Kirk (01:01):
I think, well, if we go way back, my third grade teacher, Mrs.
Chase, so I was eight, decided to makeme the, the lead of the classroom play.
And so, Uh, I have no idea why,but I memorized all the lines.
we did it, and I don'tknow, I really got into it.
And it was the first time thatother students came up and go, Hey, you did a pretty good job there.
(01:26):
You know, so I think other than momand dad, that was the first time somebody said something positive.
about me or my talents, let's say.
And that was when I was 8 years old, butI didn't get back to it until I was 25.
So there's a huge gap.
My parents are from Germany.
so I'm a first generation Americanand an acting career was not exactly what mom and dad thought would be a wise career decision.
(01:52):
So I took the path of, uh, Iended up getting an undergraduate degree in business and marketing and a minor in psychology.
I was the class presidentof my business school.
I started, uh, like a radio show, um,and a TV show, kind of a entertainment tonight type of TV show on campus.
anyway, I had a job offer from Cloroxto sell bleach out of, uh, college, uh, Fast Track Management program and all of this, and I just dropped it and said, I don't want to do this.
(02:22):
Much to the chagrin of my mom anddad and family, and I moved back to where I was born, uh, Seattle, that area, and started over.
And, uh, at 25 started taking danceclasses, got a private teacher for a while, Pat French, whose husband was a big radio personality in Seattle at the time, but she was teaching, so I started there.
(02:45):
I did everything I could.
Dancing, I was in a movement company,uh, auditioning, I was a hand model for a while, believe it or not, my hands, uh, yeah, for Apple, yeah, Apple computer, and, all kinds of, different, advertising, and then I went to North Seattle Community College, and a woman there named Diane Hostetler started to put me in her plays, and then after a couple of years, a year and a half, she said, you gotta audition for the ERDAs, And I said, what's an ERDA?
(03:13):
And she said it was the Urban Leagueof Resident Theatre Association.
So it was all the best theatre schoolsin the country, also including league schools like Harvard, Juilliard, Yale.
All these very prestigious programs.
So I got in my old rabbit, beaterrabbit, and I drove down from Seattle all the way to Long Beach, and auditioned for these schools.
(03:35):
it was dramatic monologueand then a comedic monologue.
And you would just go from room to room.
You go here, it was Rutgers.
Here it was Yale.
And then, and then, and thenall the way down the line.
And out of that, and they only acceptlike 12 people a year, seven men, And five women, each of these programs, but I was blessed enough to get two offers at Rutgers, uh, and then, uh, Uh, the FSU Oslo Conservatory of Professional Actor Training in Florida.
(04:01):
So I took that because there wasalso an angel that paid enough that I could get a small apartment, a humble little existence.
So all I did for two years wastheater, Shakespeare, Shaw.
Chekhov, Moyer, the classics, studieddiction and accents, and I'm a certified actor combatant, meaning I'm basically a stuntman for the stage, and rapier and dagger, broadsword and unarmed.
(04:24):
So I just had a, yeah, verydeep classical training, uh, I don't know, should I keep going?
I'm almost done.
I feel like that, I'm talking too
Geoff (04:33):
No, no, they're
Jaclyn (04:34):
Sure.
Sure.
Yeah, we're, we're going to bringit into how you got involved in the chosen, but, yeah, carry on.
It's good
Kirk (04:40):
Okay, um, and so after that, I auditioned, I went to FSU for two years.
After I finished that graduate program,I moved back to Seattle, and then, have you guys ever heard of Sanford Meisner?
Geoff (04:53):
The Meissner technique?
Jaclyn (04:55):
Yes.
Yeah.
Kirk (04:56):
good job, yeah.
I ended up being invited to trainwith him here in Los Angeles.
It was a one month intensive.
He's one of the greatest actingteachers in the last hundred years.
it was a group theater out of NewYork City and all these people went to meet Konstantin Stanislavski.
For those of you out therewho are aspiring to be actors, read Konstantin Stanislavski.
(05:17):
He's got a number of different books,but he was doing something revolutionary.
It used to be like all this big acting,uh, and the acting we know today, basically he's the grandfather of it all.
So all these people went to Paris.
And four different main schools ofthought were derived from their time with Konstantin Stanislavsky, and he was in the Moscow Art Theatre, and that was also, you know, it was a big sort of movement in naturalism.
(05:44):
And Chekhov was also partof that, Anton Chekhov.
So, it was, uh, Lee Strasberg, UtaHagen, Stella Adler, and Sanford Meisner.
So all the greatest actors thatyou know, from Brando, to Robert Duvall, to anybody you can think of.
All the big stars.
James Dean.
They all trained with one of those people.
(06:06):
So I was really grateful and veryexcited to train with Sanford Meisner because he's trained some of my favorite actors of all time, Robert Duvall.
Uh, the list goes on.
It's, it's a huge list,of wonderful actors.
So, I did the month intensiveand he liked me enough.
He said, I want you tocontinue training with me.
So I trained with him forfive years up until his death.
(06:27):
and then we also created the SanformiserCenter for the Arts and we were doing theater here in Los Angeles and winning theater picks of the week.
And from that we had, uh,you know, like showcases.
And that's how I got my first agent.
And then I just started auditioningand slowly but surely I started making my living as an actor.
So that's kind of a condensedversion of how I got to where I am.
(06:48):
From an eight year old to.
where I am now with, that experience thatyou mentioned at the top of the show.
But it's been a longjourney, a lot of hard work.
Geoff (06:56):
sounds like it.
Did your transition to screenhappen during some of that time that you were training with Meissner?
Or, was it after then?
Kirk (07:03):
It was, uh, yeah, it's kind of simultaneous.
my roots are in theater, of course.
That's what I did primarily.
But I always loved film becauseof the intimacy of film.
Jaclyn (07:16):
Mm hmm.
Kirk (07:16):
Theater, by its very nature, is a lie.
in terms of humanity and human connection.
Because with theater, first of all,I have to turn out three quarters of my body so everybody can see me.
But if I'm talking to a personnormally, I'm doing this.
I can't do that on stage.
(07:36):
So that right there is the first.
quote unquote, non truthof regular life, right?
The next thing is I've got thisbeautiful elderly couple way in the back.
So I have to project my voice sothey can hear, how are you today?
And like, that's the second non truth.
so I've always been attracted to theintimacy of film and always wanted to do film, but the training and the approach, it's very similar.
(08:03):
It's just one is more presentationalwhere the other is more behavioral.
Um, So, yeah, I always wanted to dofilm, but, when I researched all these people from Robert Duvall and, you know, all these actors, I, could break out a list, but, uh, that Sandy Train, they all started in the theater, so I said, that's what I need to do, because it's a grounding, it's a grounding force, and the one thing I always told myself as well is, my goal is to be so good that I can't be ignored.
(08:36):
Mm
wasn't about fame or fortune.
It was about being reallygood at what I did.
so I have spent since I was 25 till now.
I get up every day to perfect thatand I keep it really real and humble.
Um, it's about the work.
It's about getting better all the time.
(08:58):
And so it's work ethic that comes with it.
And it's a, it's a discipline like anyother discipline, any other artist, you guys being artists with your podcast and how you live your life, you know what it takes you have to be consistent.
Jaclyn (09:11):
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
One of the things that we do is, uh,we definitely talk about pursuing things with a spirit of excellence.
And so I appreciate what you're sayingbecause that is very much what it is, you know, recognizing that you can always be better and to continue to pursue that and, you know, don't let good enough, be good enough,
Kirk (09:30):
yeah, no, no, I get up every single day as I prepare for Season 5.
I'm going through the materialevery single day, you know.
I just work really, really hard,um, and it's a simple philosophy.
I think you get rewarded in publicfor what you practice in private.
And so I spend a lot of timejust working on the material.
(09:53):
And yeah, it's, there's no room for ego.
It's not about me.
the way I was trained, certainly Samfrom Meisner, is I'm watching you.
You tell me how to say my linesbased on how you just said yours.
And so it's more to it thanthat, but I forget about myself.
Contrary to popularbelief, acting is egoless.
I'm not thinking about myself.
I'm thinking about you and watching you.
(10:15):
and being present.
So there's a freedom in that.
So it's not like me, me, me, look at me.
Being interested instead oftrying to be interesting.
It's like pay attention insteadof trying to get attention.
it's all in that vein.
and that just takes practice, butyeah, man, I'm just a hard worker.
I'm not the most talented guy, neverhave been, but I just work my butt off.
Geoff (10:37):
Well, it sounds like it's brought you lots of opportunities.
Kirk (10:39):
Yes, sir.
I'm very blessed and grateful.
Yeah.
Geoff (10:41):
mm hmm.
what you were just saying, made methink, as we get into the second half of our interview, we're not, ready for that yet, but I'd certainly like to give our, our listeners, especially actors, some more, of your, Wisdom, you're a coach, a teacher.
We'll talk about, uh, we'll talk aboutactor class and the Wohler technique.
why don't you go ahead and tellus a little bit about that now?
but we'd like to get into some, advice,some tips, those types of things, things that will help other actors along in their careers as we get into the second half of our interview.
(11:08):
But right now, tell us aboutyour, classes, workshops, and the programs that you have.
Kirk (11:11):
Yeah.
I started this about four years ago.
Never intended to mentor in 2019.
I had this great idea ofonline and acting classes.
I'm telling you.
No one was doing it.
And
Jaclyn (11:23):
Yeah.
In
Kirk (11:24):
20 no one.
No one,
Geoff (11:26):
Well, that wasn't very long
Kirk (11:27):
no, it wasn't.
And I, I was like, thisis a really good idea.
Using my business background.
Like what did Bezos do?
Jeff Bezos, Amazon.
People have been making stuffand buying stuff, but he got it to my door in two days.
He mastered, fulfill.
That's his genius.
Uber.
People needed a ride,people wanted a ride.
He just made an app.
So I thought, I'm going to createActor Class, with a K in homage to my German heritage, Actor Class, Klasse.
(11:54):
and I'm going to create a platformwhere all these amazing working actor friends of mine who are classically trained like me I hooked them up with people who want to be well trained actors in a mentorship style one on one.
So that was my idea in 2019.
2020 I opened the doors and thentwo months later COVID hit and every acting teacher on planet earth was now teaching online.
Jaclyn (12:19):
Online.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm hmm.
Kirk (12:21):
uh, there went my innovative idea, but slowly but surely, I never intended to mentor, but I started to mentor Dallas Jenkins, the creator and director of The Chosen, made a lovely post, and some people responded, and I was going to hook them up with somebody else, and they said, no, no, no, we want to train with you, and I Wasn't even in the headspace for that, but I had friends who were and had done it.
That's what I was trying to connect.
(12:42):
Anyway, I ended up doing it andI've been doing it now for almost four years and I absolutely love it.
I love passing along the craft of acting.
There is nothing on planet Earth thatI enjoy more and that time literally, there is no such thing as time.
There's only two things that dothat for me, seriously, is when I'm working as an actor and when I'm Working with my students.
(13:07):
Two hours feels like five minutes.
And there's nothing else onearth that involves me to that capacity, so I love it just as much as I love the craft of acting.
And I think it's important too, topass this stuff along, in the right way, because I trained with Sanford Meisner directly, and there's a lot of people that claim to know the Meisner technique and they really don't.
(13:28):
And that personally bothers me, of course.
So.
There's only one person betweenthe great Sanford Meisner and you, for example, and that's me.
So all these other people here orsomething and then they become the masters of whatever community they're in and it's, uh, it's a shame.
Jaclyn (13:44):
where can people find your classes if they're like saying, Hey, I want to see what this is about and you know, I want in, where can they find you?
Kirk (13:52):
There's two sources.
The first is actorclass.
com, and that's with a K, actor, likeyou know it, and then class instead of a C, it's spelled with a K, dot com.
there, you will find, I havethis monthly mentorship.
I have a group mentor once amonth, actors, writers, directors.
(14:12):
Everybody from the industry,and I interview them for about 45 minutes to an hour, and then we open it up for questions.
I have casting directors.
I've had some really big names, certainlyalso in the Christian world and beyond.
and it's 15 bucks a month.
It's nothing.
It's 15 to hear from mastersat what they're doing.
There's that part of it.
(14:33):
And then, for more specificsabout what I do as a mentor, you would go to thewallertechnique.
com And I'm, maybe youguys will post that.
Or do I need to spell it,
or?
Okay, cool.
And there you'll know, you'llfind out more about me and about my approach to the craft.
and then yeah, so I teach oneon one or two on one and in approximately 28 sessions, I will give you a craft of acting.
(15:02):
That's reliable.
That's dependable.
That works.
it's not hearsay.
I continue to make my living as an actor.
I know what it takes to be onset and how all of that works.
And I pass along everything I know.
And so you'll have a technique inabout 28 of these one on one or two on one sessions, but then you got to get up every day and perfect that.
(15:24):
And I've spent the restof my life doing that.
So I really shortcut it for people.
I made a lot of mistakes along the wayand we could get into some of the mistakes I made, uh, in, in the second half.
But yeah, are the two things.
If you want to just start with the15 thing, I mean, it's priceless.
Like this Saturday, I have my manager
Geoff (15:43):
Mm hmm.
Kirk (15:44):
who has represented me for 23 years.
And so, like, anybody that wantsto get an agent, hear from a guy that's been doing it for more than 23 years, this guy's amazing.
Like, that's priceless.
I wish there was somethinglike this when I was starting
Jaclyn (15:57):
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Kirk (15:59):
could just tell it like it is.
Just tell me what to do.
When I started, I was like,just give me the book.
How do I act?
Just tell me what to do and I will do it.
I wish it was
that
Jaclyn (16:09):
it's incredibly valuable.
the film industry seems like such amysterious thing for so many people and it definitely seemed for a long time that it, was mysterious, that, you know, breaking into it was kind of like, There was a way to do it, but nobody would tell you.
Kirk (16:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I
Jaclyn (16:26):
And now I think people are breaking down those walls and saying, no, I'm going to hand my hand to you and I'm going to pull you up.
I'm going to show you how to do this.
So yeah, extremely valuable.
Geoff (16:35):
Let me ask you, with regards to your Waller technique, the 28 sessions, are you primarily, able to help people who have some experience and training already or, would it be a good start for people, wanting to start from scratch?
Kirk (16:48):
I prefer people who are starting from scratch,
because the problem withthe craft of acting and bad.
teachers, mentors, is they'regoing to teach you bad habits.
Jaclyn (17:00):
Mm
Kirk (17:00):
And somebody that doesn't, I've taken some students and I'm really excited because my students are working.
I didn't know if that would work orhow it would work, or if I could even pass along what is my technique, but I figured it out and I pass it along.
And I'm very clear about what I do.
And how to pass it on,and they're all working.
Many of those peoplehad never acted before.
And one of my students just did a bigHallmark, was the lead of a Hallmark film.
(17:24):
but I can take somebody that hasa technique, Whatever that is, and help them break certain habits that keep them from, being truthful under imaginary circumstances.
So, take the wide range.
I don't typically train anybodywho's under 18, but I think my oldest student is 72.
yeah, 72 or 70, maybe even older.
(17:45):
Amazing character actor.
He's been doing it a while, butWanted to hone in and be more specific for film and television.
He's done a lot of theater.
it's the wide range So yeahnew people existing people.
my goal is simple.
It's two things.
I want you To be grounded inyourself and I want you to work and make money doing it.
Geoff (18:06):
Cool.
Kirk (18:06):
That's that's what I
focus on.
Jaclyn (18:08):
So good.
Geoff (18:09):
Before we move on, let's talk about The Chosen.
as mentioned at the beginning, mostof our listeners, of course, are in that world of faith based filmmaking, um, so it's certainly of interest.
it's been four seasons and,did you start in season one?
I don't know whencharacter was introduced.
Oh, you remember.
She remembers things like that more than
me.
(18:30):
Tell us a bit about the experience.
and one of the things that intriguesme is, um, of course you have experience on, major, studio sets and obviously smaller independent sets.
uh, The Chosen certainly was.
has probably morphed quite a bit.
It certainly was a smallindependent set when it started.
but, tell us your journey, whatit was like being on set at the beginning compared to now.
Kirk (18:52):
I'll start with this.
I have been friends with and have workedwith You Dallas Jenkins for 25 years.
Geoff (19:00):
It's a long time.
Kirk (19:00):
yep.
I met him in 1999.
A friend recommended, they wereturning his dad's book, Left Behind, Jerry Jenkins, into a movie.
And a friend thought I'd begreat for Nikolai Kapernia.
I think it was the Antichrist character.
I played my share of sortof bad guys, if you will.
And so I sent a picture, a resume,and a reel back to the production company in Louisville, Kentucky.
(19:25):
And I was in Los Angeles at the time.
I was making my living as an actor,but I wanted to do something I was just tired of murder and mayhem, basically.
And I wanted to do realstories like we had in theater.
You know, I was getting hired a lot toplay a lot of bad guys, so to speak.
Anyway, three days later I got acall from a guy named Dallas Jenkins.
And, also a producer and they wereexcited because I was a working actor and that a working actor would be interested in what they're doing.
(19:53):
They were thrilled about that.
Also, Jerry and Dallas werehuge, blue fans, and my character killed Andy Sipowicz Jr.
And that clip was on the,the reel that I sent them.
So there was a, a nice connectionthere, and that's where it started.
So I've been in everythingDallas has done.
for over 25 years, including afilm I just did with him, The Best Christmas Pageant Ever.
(20:15):
We shot that in Canada, it'sgoing to come out this November.
Anyway So he just asked meif I'd love to be a part.
I was like, it's always a joke.
you know what I mean?
Yeah, of course.
Like you don't even have to ask meanytime because the Dallas Jenkins set to talk about the experience, a Dallas Jenkins and I'm not just saying this, it's the best sets I've ever been on in my entire career.
Geoff (20:36):
Wow.
Kirk (20:37):
because of him and his philosophy, or this is the way I take away it, although he's never really said it, it's just, Great people, healthy environment, and compelling stories.
Great stories, and Dallasis smart how he casts.
He doesn't cast divas.
He casts real people.
He has a great eye for the truth.
(20:59):
I've been watching himdo this now for 25 years.
No one was paying attention.
I was sleeping in his basement.
It was a nice basement, but justto give you context, and we were doing these short films.
No one was paying attention.
He never really got any footing withall the feature films and shorts that we were doing until The Shepherd.
And then that's when thingssort of took off, obviously.
(21:19):
So it was no differentfor me when we started.
It's Dallas Jenkins.
It's great.
It's going to be a heartfelt story.
I'm playing an interestingcharacter and it was fantastic and continues to be fantastic.
But yeah, when we started out, itwas like, Very low budget, nothing.
You know what I mean?
And now it's, I am literallywitnessing the birth of a studio.
Geoff (21:41):
Yeah.
Kirk (21:41):
grass and trailers to, the first soundstage made to be a soundstage in the state of Texas.
And now we got two of them.
And then we got four buildings.
And then we've got these two 25unit actor bungalows, which are like little apartments when you're working that you can stay at.
They have a shower.
It's like, it's unbelievable.
It started with nothing, andthen they built a 15 million dollar city that's real.
(22:06):
Capernaum.
And it's real.
It's not fake and foam.
It's rock.
It's just unbelievable what's happened.
And, uh, it's extraordinary.
And it's just an honor and a blessingand a lifetime to be a part of it.
Jaclyn (22:19):
Awesome.
Geoff (22:20):
Well, that's, uh, that's very cool.
And, That's been a journey forthe viewers and the fans as well, because so appreciated.
And it's not hard to tell, ofcourse, if you just go online for a minute and you can see how much value and how much appreciation there is out there for the Chosen.
Kirk (22:35):
yeah, it's, it's astounding.
you know, I've been doing this along time, and sometimes people recognize me, but not that often, I mean, you know, they look at me weird at the grocery store, like, did I go to high school with that guy?
They couldn't quite ever
place me.
played enough varied characters,but now people do recognize me more.
Every single person has a heart ofgold, they're lovely, they're grateful, they're gracious, they're kind, and they, are just so taken by the series.
(23:05):
So to be recognized for something that'sso special is such an honor for me.
And it's such a pleasureto talk to these people.
We have this thing called ChosenConwhere, I'm not joking, in a span of two hours, you meet 000 people.
And so you stand there and they come up.
Nice to meet you.
Take a picture.
Nice to meet you.
Take a picture.
I would say there were four differentcouples that came up to me and said, you saved our marriage.
Geoff (23:30):
Wow.
Kirk (23:31):
nice to meet you.
You saved our marriage.
It's just so, you don't have timeto get into specifics, but it's just so deep and so touching, the impact the show is having on people.
Yeah, so it's an honor anda blessing, I'll tell you.
Jaclyn (23:45):
Amazing.
Kirk (23:46):
the journey that my character, Gaius, has taken.
I had no idea when we started that that Is
Jaclyn (23:52):
I was going to ask you that if you had any clue that he was going to end up being the character he became.
Kirk (23:58):
well, Dallas.
Well, we did the firstepisodes, four episodes in 2018.
Then we did the next four for season one,like in the end of 2019 or 2020 maybe.
So it was like over a year and ahalf later or something like that.
No, never tells me anything.
Uh, I don't know what's going tohappen until I get the scripts every season, including season 5.
(24:22):
You all kind of wait to get it,and I like that he does that.
It's frustrating sometimes,because you want to know.
Uh, but no, I sit down and I readit just like you guys watch it.
Oh my You know,
I don't know.
Have you guys seen season 4 yet?
Geoff (24:35):
Yes.
Kirk (24:36):
yeah.
Can we talk about that?
I don't know how much time we
have.
Jaclyn (24:39):
Absolutely.
Um, but wait, wait, wait.
can we do that in the next episode?
We got to wrap this one up.
Geoff (24:44):
Sure.
Okay.
Well, it's been so goodhearing all of that.
And you know what?
In the next episode, we'regoing to talk more about acting.
We're going to go deeper into yourtechnique and some things that can be helpful to other actors.
But also, I want to go a littlefurther with the chosen as
well.
Because were kind of heading into somethings there that were very interesting.
And so, uh, we'll just take thisopportunity to thank you, uh, thank you so much for your time and, uh, for sharing with us today.
(25:12):
It's been, very enjoyableand, and so great to meet you.
Kirk (25:14):
Likewise.
Thank you guys both for having me.
You're both so lovely.
Grateful to be here.
Bless.
Jaclyn (25:19):
Thank you.
God bless.
Bye.
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