October 8, 2025 • 29 mins
Episode 176 - The Legendary Music of Petra and the Movie “Beyond Belief” with Joe Sanders
In this episode of the Faith and Family Filmmakers podcast, Matt welcomes Joe Sanders, executive producer at Intrigue Films. Joe shares the remarkable journey behind "Beyond Belief," a faith-based film set in the 1980s that features the legendary music of Petra. From the film’s divine inspiration and the challenges of independent filmmaking, to the miraculous connections and lessons learned along the way, Joe offers a candid look at the creative process, the power of faith, and the impact of Christian music across generations.
Highlights Include:
- The Origin Story of "Beyond Belief"
- Connecting with Bob Hartman
- Divine Intervention and Partnership
- Petra's Legacy and Influence
- Touring With Petra
- The Story of "Beyond Belief"
- Faith vs Reality: The Film's Message
- Patience in Post-Production
- Aligning Your Team with the Mission
- Lessons on Trusting God
Bio:
Joe Sanders is an Executive Producer with Intrigue Films, an independent production company dedicated to creating high-quality, faith-based films that inspire and engage audiences. He has worked on One Hit From Home and Grace Wins. He is currently producing the upcoming feature Beyond Belief, an original, faith-based film set in the 1980s and the first to feature the music of Petra, one of the most iconic Christian rock bands in history. Joe is also the owner of Relevant Elephant, a digital marketing agency, and the author of Stop Posting! Start Marketing!. His work combines creativity, strategy, and purpose to reach audiences nationwide.
Facebook – Beyond Belief: https://www.facebook.com/thebeyondbeliefmovie/
Instagram – Beyond Belief: https://www.instagram.com/beyondbelief_themovie/
Intrigue Films Website: https://intriguefilms.com/
IMDb – Beyond Belief: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt32331539/
Editing by Geoffrey Whitt
FAFF Association Online Meetups: https://faffassociation.com/#faff-meetings
Screenwriters Retreat - Mexico: https://www.faffassociation.com/writers-retreat
Jaclyn's Book - In the Beginning, Middle and End: A Screenwriter’s Observations of LIfe, Character, and God: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D9R7XS9V
VIP Producers Mentorship Program https://www.faffassociation.com/vip-producers-mentorship
The Faith & Family Filmmakers podcast helps filmmakers who share a Christian worldview stay in touch, informed, and inspired. Releasing new episodes every week, we interview experts from varying fields of filmmaking; from screenwriters, actors, directors, and producers, to film scorers, talent agents, and distributors.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matt (00:00):
Alright, we're back at the Faith and Family Filmmakers podcast.
excited today.
I've got, Joe Sanders with us.
Uh, Joe is, executive producer with intrigue films, here to talk about areally exciting film that as a, as a person of a certain age, I'm of a kid of the eighties basically, I'm kind of excited to talk to you about this.
So, Joe, uh, before I introduce you, I just wanna thank youfor joining us today and taking some time to talk to us.
Joe (00:22):
Absolutely.
Thanks so much.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Matt (00:24):
Well, let's, let's tell everybody who you are.
So, you're an EP with Intrigue Films, which is an independent production company, uh,dedicated to creating high quality faith-based films that inspire and engage audiences.
Uh, you've worked on, uh, One hit From Home and Grace Wins.
You're currently producing the upcoming feature of what I'm reallyexcited about, a very original faith-based film that's set in the 1980s.
(00:47):
And, the first feature, to feature the, music of Petra,one of the most iconic Christian rock bands in history.
I love Petra.
Uh, you're also the owner of, relevant Elephant, which I, I could say that three timesFast as a digital marketing agency and the author of Stop Posting, Start Marketing.
As a marketer myself, like the title of that very, very much.
(01:08):
Uh, your work combines creativity, strategy, purpose, to reach an audience nationwide.
So, Joe, let's dive right
Joe (01:15):
That was quite an intro, man.
That was quite an intro.
I appreciate
Matt (01:18):
I ready every word.
It was, it's a well-written, well-written intro, so,
Joe (01:22):
I Can tell
Matt (01:23):
word for word.
I, I didn't mispronounce anything even though I'm fromthe south and we tend to do that from time to time.
So.
Let's, you know, you, you've done some cool stuff thatwe'd all recognize; One Hit From Home, Grace Wins.
But I really wanna talk to you today about Beyond Belief.
Those of us, like I said, from the eighties, we were raised on the music of Petra.
So how, how did this whole project even start?
Joe (01:45):
Yeah, that's a good question.
Um, well, we were, you know, everybody's got like those, you know, those filmsyou wanna make and at one point we felt really inspired to tell a story about.
Hearing God's voice and following what God says to do, even if it's an impossible task.
And so we, um, my team and I, we got, I brought an idea to the guys one time.
I said, what, what if we tell a story kinda like a faith-based story, kinda like Field ofDreams where this kid hears this voice, So everybody was like, oh, yeah, that's kind of cool.
(02:13):
So we developed this for a long time and we were calling this movie The Marathon.
And um, there was about this kid who heard this voiceand he, he felt like he needed to run this marathon.
And, uh, one day I just, I woke up and I, I called the guys.
I said, you know what?
I said, this movie should be in the eighties.
I said, there's no faith-based movies that take place in the eighties.
And so everybody's like, okay.
(02:34):
so then we're going down this development road and, um.
I said, well, if we're gonna make an eighties faith-based movie, we're gonna make it authentic.
So I went on this Spotify rabbit hole man, and I just listened to everyeighties Christian band I could find, every song: GeGarmo and Key, Rez Band, Striper, uh, Brian Duncan, like, you name it, I just went through all of it.
(02:57):
And you know, Petra, of course, is sort of the darling of that generation and.
The Song Beyond Belief, which I know is their most popular song.
I just kept listening to the song over and over and over again, like probably a thousand times.
And um, I went to the guys and I said, listen guys, not only do Ithink this is the best song of this, at least in my opinion of this, of this era, I said, you guys won't believe the lyrics to the song.
(03:24):
This is what our movie is about.
Everybody was like, okay, that's kind of cool.
So what Joe?
And I said, well, I wonder if Petra would would do this movie with us.
And everybody's like, okay, whatever Joe, go figure that out.
We'll, we'll stay in the real world.
You, you go see what you can do.
So I went down, my sort of what producers do sometimes, which is.
(03:47):
You throw stuff against the wall, you see what you can find.
And I went on this little journey to find Petra.
And, um, Petra really at the time wasn't doing anything.
They were, had been retired, and this was about three years ago, andI was trying to find Bob Hartman and, um, it was very hard to find.
you know, and, and finally I did, I, I, I met, I,it took me a long time and, and I found Bob Hartman.
(04:11):
I got on the phone with Bob Hartman and I, said, Bob, listen, um, I am not callingfrom Hollywood and I don't have any money, but I've got this idea for a movie.
What do you think?
and so I kind of told him what we were gonna do and he,just said in the way, if you anybody knows, Bob Hartman.
And, um, he just said, okay.
(04:31):
And so that's how this whole thing kind of came around.
We, started building this, movie, around the, the music of Petra.
And, and so the movie's not about Petra, but we took Petra's music and we put it in the movie.
So, even though it's a modern faith-based movie, the soundtrack of the film hasfeaturing all these Petra songs and we, infused them throughout the entire movie.
(04:51):
Um, we had a blast and then I, uh, through this time of these last few years.
Petra, John Schlitt and Bob Hardman, and all the guys,you know, have become, I'm humbled to call them friends.
Um, they've welcomed us, they've partnered with us, we went a tour with them.
Um, we've gotten to know them.
They've been amazing.
And sometimes when I even sitting here telling you about it, it's still sort of adream to me and actually what's happening so obviously we call the movie Beyond
(05:19):
Belief, and that's kinda where we're at.
Matt (05:21):
So typically for those listening, when you.
If you make a phone call and you say, Hey, giant rockstar, I'm a guy you'venever met, you've never heard my name, you don't recognize me at all.
Uh, I wanna make a movie with you and I don't have any money.
The next sound you hear is click.
So that's a miracle to be able to connect with him despite the honesty of that intro.
Joe (05:43):
Absolutely.
And, and Bob is, you know, Bob Harmon is, iconic, you know, Petra iconic, Bobis one of the, maybe the most respected person in contemporary Christian music.
When I was talking to people, when I was trying to find Bob, which was hardto find, um, and I'm good at finding people, um, they said, you know, Joe,
everybody loves Bob.
Like he's, everybody loves Bob.
(06:05):
Everybody respects Bob, but Bob is retired.
Like Bob's not doing this anymore.
It's over.
Like he's never gonna do it.
And.
I said, all right.
And I, like so many things that happened during this movie, you're totally right.
And you're, and what you're explaining is this was just, um, this was a divine intervention.
Um, this was God's leading us, leading me.
(06:25):
And, um, you're right, because there's no other reason for them to want to do this than justbelieving in the fact that God led us together and that, um, you know, that means something.
And so it's, it's been that sort of a journey for us the whole way with this movie.
Matt (06:39):
It sounds like the plot line of the background of this movie is, is the plot of Sing.
Uh, yeah, sing too.
They got a go get bono.
Joe (06:47):
Yeah.
Right.
it's funny when I talk to people about Beyond Belief, and maybeyou were gonna ask this question, I'll usurp you a little bit.
Every once they're like, oh, so you guys are making a movie about Petra?
That's what everybody thinks, which I understand becausemaking a movie about Petra is, it's like a really good idea.
Like, that would be a really interesting, great movie, right?
Um, but then when I tell people I go, no, it's actually not about Petra.
(07:08):
We made a movie with Petra.
We made a movie about a kid in the eighties who likes Petra.
you know, we made a movie about a kid in the eighties who, who's growing up with Petra's music,
Matt (07:18):
So Petra becomes a character in, in the
Joe (07:21):
yes, yes.
Matt (07:22):
I find that is, I find that more interesting,
Joe (07:25):
Yeah, we, we, we wrote Petra into the movie.
Like this kid, he's got a Christian rock band in the eighties, right?
he likes Petra, he goes to Petra, concerts, he does all these things and what's interesting,you know, I, I gotta tell you this straight away, I totally underestimated Petra.
I mean, I knew Petra was a big deal and I knew they were iconicand all this stuff, but I can't tell you, I, I underestimated how.
(07:48):
Um, how grandiose this, this idea, it's almost like a myth, this sort ofthing of petro and there's a whole generation, this is really interesting.
There's a whole generation of people who grew up in the church in the eighties, right.
And this has never been put on film before there's been a fewfeel like unsung hero was in the eighties now that came out.
(08:09):
You know, last year, so we were already in production, so I'll give you credit.
There's, there's another movie called Elect Jesus that you might be familiar with
Matt (08:17):
A good, A
good friend of mine was in that movie.
Joe (08:19):
yeah, it wasn't necessarily a faith-based movie, but there's never in history been a movie that has a Petra song in it.
Matt (08:26):
because they had, they focused on striper and Electric Jesus
Joe (08:29):
yeah, and just think about that for a second.
Now, I know Petra made the video album.
Beyond Belief, the video album.
Right.
But that was like a short movie.
There has never been a movie secular or Christian ever that has ever had a Petra song in it before.
Matt (08:44):
I love it.
Joe (08:45):
when we talk to, you know, capital Records and like Curb Records, they're like, huh?
They're like, what you want?
You want to use what?
We're like, we wanna use Petra's catalog.
And they're like, go for it.
Matt (08:56):
Now, that's, that's kind of amazing because when, I know for a fact when you're doing a, a independent film and you're scraping for the budget, the most expensive part can be getting the licensing for the music.
'cause you gotta pay.
A lot of people don't know this a.
You gotta pay performance rights and you gotta pay publishing.
And a lot of times, two different companies own, you know, one company owned the publishing.
(09:17):
One company will, will own the, uh, the record.
And, they'll play off each other.
You know, what does the publishing want?
Oh, they want 15, then we want 15 grand too per song.
Right?
So each song's $35,000 and that can just kill your, budget.
So the fact that you were able to have access to their catalogfor this movie is, I think that's a miracle in and of itself.
Joe (09:36):
it is.
This is another God thing.
It was a thing we, um.
We have Bob's permission blessing, um, which goes a long way.
Don't get me wrong in this business.
That means something to a lot of people.
But sure, we had to get the record companies to agree to let us use music.
We have, to pay for that and all the things we had to do.
And, um, we were able to do it.
and, uh, we're we're blessed to be on measure to have this film, uh, coming out.
(09:59):
'cause I think what's really gonna be really fun aboutthis movie is that it is a modern faith-based film.
It's made for the modern faith-based audience, but there's a whole generation, like my son, Ihave a 13-year-old son, and this is gonna be the introduction to the younger generation of Petra.
This is gonna be like, hey, like, you know those bands that you listen to, like, we're kindof on third generation now, like with the Forest Franks and the Lauren Dagels, but the John Coopers and the Bart Millard's and, and the, the Mack Powells, they were all petro fans.
(10:27):
All of them.
Matt (10:27):
A hundred percent.
They were.
Joe (10:29):
the only reason.
they're, they did what they did was because of what John and Bob and, and Greg Voltz did, right?
and John Lowry and those guys.
So we're like now saying like, to these kids here, you know, likein the eighties, Christian music, it, was different than it is now.
It was, it was elusive.
It was powerful.
Not that it's not today, but it meant something was different back then because, um.
(10:50):
There really wasn't a lot of, especially from a rock perspective,most people's kids' parents wouldn't even let 'em listen to Petra.
'Cause they thought it was like, rock and roll can't be music.
And that's what Petra did.
they made rock and roll music, Christian rock and roll music, um, that the church would then play.
And it was the first time and it's important and it means something.
Matt (11:10):
I saw Petra, I was probably nine years old and we went down to Macon, Georgia to the Macon Coliseum.
I mean, there were 10,000 people in there, and I'mgonna tell you, those guys put on a rock and roll show.
It was, they were rock stars, but they were also evangelizing it.
wasn't cheesy or forced.
It was just really great rock and roll, eighties rock and roll, mind you.
(11:33):
But it was rock and roll.
Joe (11:34):
So when we got, you know, about a year into this process, um.
Petra decided to go on tour and they're like, we're gonna go on tour again.
And I'm like, okay.
and I said, well, how can we help this?
Like, you guys can come with if you want.
So we actually went on tour with Petra.
We didn't do all their shows, but we got to show up andpromote the film and have a, a booth and talk from the stage.
Matt (11:57):
Did you play the trailer for the audience?
Joe (11:59):
Well, we didn't have, we had like our, our our, uh, crowdfund video played that and stuff, but again, back to the, um, the underestimating the power of what Petra meant to that generation.
when we would meet people, because we interviewed people at the concerts andpeople don't come up to you and tell you what their favorite Petra song is.
That's not what they do.
They don't come up and say, oh, let me tell you what my favorite Petra album is.
(12:21):
That's not what they do.
They come up to you and they say, this is the this, this music changed my life.
They say, this is, this is the music that changed my life.
This is the soundtrack of my, of my childhood.
Um, I mean thousands of people.
And, and we only went to like a handful of shows.
Um, it's amazing the power.
(12:42):
I remember when, we were very fortunate, we were in productionon this movie last fall, and John and Bob came to set.
For a couple days, which was amazing.
Right.
And we had, um, we did some media while we were there.
So we had some, people from Chicago Media and Christian Media come, andit's the same story because some of these people had never met John and Bob, they've been in Christian music, media their whole life, never met 'em.
(13:06):
And when they're interviewing them, after their interviewing them,they're crying or they can't, they just, they can't, they can't handle it.
That they're just like, they're, and they're trying to communicate to them.
what they meant, what it meant to them for what they did with that ministry.
Um, it's amazing, it's powerful and, uh, we're so, honored to justbe able to share a little bit of that with, the next generation.
Matt (13:33):
I gotta tell you it's very clear when you're talking to a filmmaker who is not just passionate about his, his project, but this enthusiastic you because at this point in the process, you've gone through pre-production.
You've gone through all the, Difficulties of getting there.
You've gotten there.
You've, Are you done with post now?
Joe (13:51):
Almost.
We're almost done.
Matt (13:53):
Well, this is usually the part where you've pulled all your hair out, but you're not doing that.
You're still enthusiastic about this.
So that's a very, very good sign about what's to come on the screen.
Uh, if you're still in, in a good place,
Let's talk a little bit about the story though.
So it's kind of a field of dreams, uh, for a youth set in the eighties to the music of Petra.
(14:13):
That's what I got so far.
Tell me a little more about the story.
Joe (14:15):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So we, we pitched it as it's kind of Field of Dreams meets the Karate Kid, that takesplace, you know, in the eighties, and when you, you know, you say that enough times to people and you know, it eventually it makes sense ' cause it really doesn't make much sense.
But essentially, the story centers around this young kid who'sgrowing up in the eighties and he wants to be a rock star, like Petra.
(14:37):
He lives of a small mid-western town and he has a band.
So there is actually original music also in this film.
So he has a band 'cause he wants to be like Petra.
And he is, you know, kind of going through his trials and there's, some, his dad dies and therewas these things going on and he's trying to get out of this town and, um, things like that.
And, somewhere early in the film he, he hears a voice and thisvoice is telling him one word, the voice tells him to run.
(15:05):
So throughout the story of this movie, this boy is now dealingwith the fact that he is trying to be this Christian rock star.
And he is dealing with all these things that are going on inhis life, but he's, heard this voice, it's very mysterious.
He's the only one that can hear it.
And he is now having to understand who, who is saying this to me?
Is this God talking to me?
Is somebody playing a joke on me?
What does this mean?
(15:25):
And he kinda goes through this process of trying to figure out what does this mean?
And um, he kind of lands on the idea that God is... this voice is leading him to run a marathon,which is something that he cannot do because, you know, he can't run a marathon to him.
It's impossible.
so then our movie sort of becomes The Karate Kid in the sense that our boy, he finds somebodythat's gonna help him learn how to do this and he's gotta go through those trials and ultimately ends up, you, you're probably not going to be expecting how this is going to end, but at the end, the, point of beyond belief, Is that God calls us to do things that we are not qualified for.
(16:01):
He calls us to do things that are impossible.
And we see this in the Bible all the time, Noah and Moses and Joshua, right?
And I think, you know, if, if you read between the lines alittle bit, it's how these stories play out in the Bible.
you can picture some of these characters and sometimes it's in there, some nodof like looking up at God and just being like, why are you asking me to do this?
I'm not qualified for this.
I cannot do this.
And God's response to looking down at us is like, yeah, I know you're right.
(16:26):
You can't do
this.
You're not qualified to do this.
But that is not why I asked you.
I asked you to do it because I will go before you, and if you dowhat I say, then your enemies will be made foot stools at your feet.
And so his whole movie is about faith versus reality.
are you going to trust faith?
Are you going to, hang on to faith?
(16:48):
Are you gonna just go by what's five feet in front of your face and what you can see?
we all have to make that choice.
I think we all get the nudge if we're Christians, right?
We have a Holy Spirit living inside of us, and that Holy Spirit speaks to us, right?
And sometimes it asks us to move mountains and sometimes itasks us to just, Hey, go say hi to that person on the street or.
Go give that homeless person a dollar, whatever it is, and we struggle with that, right?
(17:10):
we get that in our head and we, oh, God's speaking to me.
What we're trying to say in this movie, like, what thisboy has to go through is, Hey, listen, here's the message.
This is the vision that was put on our heart that Ithink God wants to, to get the word out to people.
Say, listen... why don't you just take a step in that direction and see what God might do.
Matt (17:28):
I'm sold.
Where do I buy tickets?
I am ready.
When's it
coming to a theater near me.
Right?
Joe (17:32):
No, uh,
Matt (17:33):
when's the trailer coming out?
'cause I, I'm already intrigued by your description of the story.
Obviously you gotta get the post done and then you'll, you'll send it to the trailer people.
But I'm ready to see a trailer now.
Joe (17:43):
so everything's in process.
Like we're, I don't wanna say like, because I don't know yet,like I can tell you is that the movie's in a really good place.
Um, everything's being in process.
I know everybody's asking us this all the time, and I understand.
Matt (17:55):
Especially your investors.
When's this gonna get done?
Joe (17:57):
yeah.
I would say like.
It's coming.
Like we're getting there.
And I would say just keep an eye... We're, we're pretty active on social media.
Um, we post a lot.
we give information, so I would say keep an eye on that.
Um, it's coming like everything's coming.
We're, when you're doing a film and you, you can appreciate this too.
Um, you gotta be really careful with how you release your film and how you releaseinformation about your film and my team and I, um, we really believe, and as, as I'm sure maybe you can kind of sense, we believe that this movie is really something special.
(18:30):
We really think there's something here.
We feel a great responsibility to telling the story.
We feel a great, a great responsibility having Petra involved in this project, and we are gonnamake, we are being incredibly, uh, diligent and good stewards with everything we've been given.
We've been blessed beyond measure with this project, and we're just tryingto make sure that everything we do is, done as best that we possibly can.
(18:54):
And that's all I can tell you.
Um, but it's coming.
Matt (18:56):
No, that's, great information.
It's on the way.
So I always like to find one moment in these conversationswhere I kind of go, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
Future filmmakers out there listening to this.
this is a great lesson because when you are in post-production, especially on a projectlike this, There are going to be people, whether it be a, a goofy podcaster or your investors typically who are going to be pushing you and pushing you, why isn't this done?
(19:21):
Why isn't this done?
And, there is a, a tendency you wanna push yourself through and just, I gotta get it done.
But you really have to hang on and obviously you have towork diligently as you say you are and be good stewards.
but you can't rush that process.
The process has to play itself out in order for you to get the best product on the screen.
'cause you don't want to get the final cut.
(19:43):
and have to go back and redo things.
You know, once you start putting it into to research phase, you wanna have it as, best you can.
So, uh, listen to Joe's description of his patience with this.
Wandering in the desert for 40 years in post can feellike that, but you have to get it as perfect as it can be.
Joe (20:02):
Absolutely.
Uh, it, it's good advice.
I would layer this in there too.
you know, this is the third film we've done and we're incrediblyblessed with the people that we work with on our projects, and I would.
you know, we're a very small company.
we've never even had a movie in the movie theater beforeand we're just a smidge in this industry at the moment.
But I would, stress to young filmmakers who are trying to dothis, align yourself with people that believe in your mission.
(20:25):
Align yourself with people who believe in your mission.
Whether that's your investors, whether that's yourpartners, whether that's your, crew, your ca, whoever it is.
Because if you can align everybody, everybody on your team to yourmission, then everybody has the same goal and you'll avoid some of those issues that you're talking about, which are very real, right?
(20:45):
And so on Beyond Belief, I feel we have been.
Again, I think I've said it three times, we are blessed beyond measurebecause every person who is involved with this project has the same goal.
and we are all in this for one reason only to tellthe story, to inspire people to follow God's voice.
that's what we're trying to do and doing it in a very entertaining way.
(21:07):
but you are absolutely right.
This process is very tedious.
When you're an independent film company, you are limited.
I mean, everybody's limited to an extent.
When you're an independent film company, you have limited resources, you have limited time,you have limited, you know, everything, and you have to make the most of what you can.
And it, can be a very daunting process.
But I'll tell you, um, as hard as this is and is, Imean, we made a period piece as an independence film.
(21:31):
the only thing we could have done was dumber than this.
Put animals and a baby in it.
I
mean, that's, that's pretty much it.
Um.
can say very confidently, as hard as this was everybodywho worked on this, we'd go back and do it again..
Matt (21:43):
I love that.
you said everybody's gotta be aligned in the mission.
I think I would add to that everybody also has to be aligned in the creative vision.
So if you've got everybody aligned in the mission and the creative vision, and I'm gonnaadd to that, you've gotta have leadership up top who is as enthusiastic about it as you are.
'cause that's what creates the culture.
(22:04):
That's what aligns everyone to the mission and the vision is that you as the executiveproducer and the, you know, the director of the producers, you guys have to have this kind of enthusiasm for the mission of the project and the vision of the creative.
That's what lines everybody up underneath you.
Joe (22:20):
No, you're right.
and again, like what we did and what we're doing andhow this is all going, it, we could not have done this.
we have felt God's favor on I know people say that all the time.
it got to be to the point where it just became hilarious what was happening on our film set.
it was like undeniable.
Matt (22:36):
I need some examples.
I love these stories.
I, hear these stories all
Joe (22:39):
right there, there was, man, how much time do you have?
Um, I give you couple quick stories.
I mean, there, there was one time we were shooting in a, in a, in alocation and the location said, oh, we need like $5,000 more money.
And we're like.
What, and we're there like it's production day, like number 20 or whatever.
And so I'm just like, all right, okay, I guess we need to pay this extra $5,000.
(23:02):
I guess I'll have to go figure out where it's gonna come from.
I walk outside and we have a crowdfunding platform that had been on.
We hadn't really been using it very much 'cause we were in productionand as soon as I walked outside, I got an email from our crowdfund.
The exact money we had just spent at the venue had shown up.
not, I'm not kidding.
I, I'm not, this is not hyperly.
I remember I looked at it and my producer, Dave, who andI were dealing with this issue, I said, Dave, be quiet.
(23:26):
Look at this.
I held my phone up and he looked and he looked at me I'm like, that just happened.
Um, there was another time where we, um, we lost a location.
Um, we, we was, the day before we were like, it was like, I dunno, five o'clock and uh, we weresupposed to film at this location the next morning, and it was a location that was going to be.
Not only a shooting location, but also storage location for the next month.
(23:49):
It was a pretty important thing.
We had worked all this out.
There's something happened and it was five o'clock the day before and we didn't have it.
We, we literally lost it and we had to be there the next morning at six o'clock.
We were on day, like three or four production and, um.
I was like, oh my gosh.
And so I had somebody, we were in this great little town in Illinois thatwas incredibly helpful and I, called them and said, what are we gonna do?
(24:11):
And they said, well call this person.
So the secretary, this gal who really helped it, who was somebody at theiroffice who's incredibly helpful, said, well, I may have somebody can help you.
So she said call this guy, he is got a warehouse.
So I call this guy and I'm on the phone and I'm talking about as fast as I'm talking to youright now, and I'm like, Hey, listen, uh, we're making a movie and we need a place to store these cars, and we need to do four minutes process, and we, we need to be there like tomorrow.
(24:33):
And I'm going on and on and on.
This guy just stops me.
This is like 20 minutes later in this, we lost his location.
He just stops in middle.
He is like, listen, he's, it's fine.
You can use it.
I'm like, what?
He's like, just come over.
So I went over there and I walked in there.
It's like five 30 now.
This happened at five, now it's like five 30.
And I'm walking in this place and I, I'm not making any of this up.
(24:54):
And the guy looks at me.
I don't know this guy.
I just met him on the phone and he looks at me, he goes, Joe,you seem really, you were just talking to me on the phone.?
You seem really stressed about this.
I said, yeah, I am.
He goes, you, you're okay.
Don't worry.
it's fine the whole place is yours.
You can do whatever you want with it.. Lemme give you the key, lemme show you where you're at.
And that's what we used for the next month.
It just kept happening over and over again.
'cause you know the challenges of making films, you need things like that to happen.
(25:16):
But some of the things that were happening to us, um, when you call your team andthey're like, uh, hey, uh, assistant director, uh, we're not going to that warehouse.
Where are we going?
We're got a different one.
And we're like,
Matt (25:27):
How
Joe (25:27):
did you do that?
I'm like, I have no idea how we did it.
It's just
God looking down on us.
And.
Matt (25:32):
You knew how it happened.
You knew how it happened.
Joe (25:34):
It's just, it's God looking down on us and just being like, you know what?
I really want you to make this movie and you guys keep messing it up.
Matt (25:39):
Lesson number two then, that I'm hearing from this.
Ding, ding, ding.
If you're a producer and an unexpected expense pops up, it's probably a good ideato look to God to cover that and not to your marketing budget, because that's what usually happens is you drain the marketing budget from unexpected expenses.
Joe (25:57):
yeah, well we did that too, but uh, it's just.
All in all to be where we're at with, all the thingsthat did happen on the set, uh, over and over again.
It's just, uh, it's just amazing stuff.
know, I tell you, it's, the, we, everybody wants the movie to be successful, right?
Everybody wants to be able to show it to people and talk about it,and, you know, should Beyond Belief become successful, to the point where people actually do want me to come out and talk about it.
(26:21):
I, really can't wait to share these stories of, Hey, you have no idea how.
We could not have done this because we're, we're not good enough.
We, we don't, we couldn't have done this.
Matt (26:33):
Just like the
story of the kid running a marathon.
Joe (26:34):
Well, that's the thing.
That's my story because I'm not a filmmaker.
I have no experience doing this.
I, I, I heard this call about 15 years ago, and it's a long story.
And, um, I just said, I'll go.
I said, okay, I'll give it a shot.
I'll go, I'll see how this works.
And you know, this happens.
That happens.
And, that is what, the story is.
Matt (26:56):
Hey, like you said, man, Abraham was too old and, uh, too rich and comfortable to leave and, uh, go have a bunch of children.
But yet, you know, when you, heed the call, Joe, tell us how we can kind of follow you.
What, what are your social media handles?
We wanna follow this project.
Joe (27:11):
We're everywhere, man.
So like, we're on Facebook, we're on Instagram, we're on TikTok, we're on YouTube.
We're everywhere.
So if you just go to those places, you can go to intrigue films.com.
we have, you know, I think it's Beyond Belief dot movie.
Uh, we're not hard to find,
Matt (27:24):
if I get on socials and I search
Beyond
belief movie.
I'll, you'll find it.
Joe (27:28):
You know, we, we encourage people to follow us and IMDBs, we got all our stuff on there, so I wanna check out some of that.
we're trying to be as, proactive with that as we can to keep everybody involved in the process.
Matt (27:38):
happen in God's timing, brother.
Joe (27:40):
Absolutely.
Yeah, soon.
It's coming.
It's coming soon.
Matt (27:41):
Very good.
That's awesome.
We can't wait to see it.
Uh, you know what, when it comes out in theaters, we'll try to have you back on and we'lltalk about the actual hardest part of filmmaking, which is marketing and distribution.
So you got your work cut out for you, but it sounds likeyou got the, the type of film that's set up to succeed.
So Joe Sanders, thanks again man so much for taking a little timeand talking to us today on the Faith and Family Filmmakers podcast.
Alright, we're back at the Faith and Family Filmmakers podcast.
excited today.
I've got, Joe Sanders with us.
Uh, Joe is, executive producer with intrigue films, here to talk about areally exciting film that as a, as a person of a certain age, I'm of a kid of the eighties basically, I'm kind of excited to talk to you about this.
So, Joe, uh, before I introduce you, I just wanna thank youfor joining us today and taking some time to talk to us.
Joe (00:22):
Absolutely.
Thanks so much.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Matt (00:24):
Well, let's, let's tell everybody who you are.
So, you're an EP with Intrigue Films, which is an independent production company, uh,dedicated to creating high quality faith-based films that inspire and engage audiences.
Uh, you've worked on, uh, One hit From Home and Grace Wins.
You're currently producing the upcoming feature of what I'm reallyexcited about, a very original faith-based film that's set in the 1980s.
(00:47):
And, the first feature, to feature the, music of Petra,one of the most iconic Christian rock bands in history.
I love Petra.
Uh, you're also the owner of, relevant Elephant, which I, I could say that three timesFast as a digital marketing agency and the author of Stop Posting, Start Marketing.
As a marketer myself, like the title of that very, very much.
(01:08):
Uh, your work combines creativity, strategy, purpose, to reach an audience nationwide.
So, Joe, let's dive right
Joe (01:15):
That was quite an intro, man.
That was quite an intro.
I appreciate
Matt (01:18):
I ready every word.
It was, it's a well-written, well-written intro, so,
Joe (01:22):
I Can tell
Matt (01:23):
word for word.
I, I didn't mispronounce anything even though I'm fromthe south and we tend to do that from time to time.
So.
Let's, you know, you, you've done some cool stuff thatwe'd all recognize; One Hit From Home, Grace Wins.
But I really wanna talk to you today about Beyond Belief.
Those of us, like I said, from the eighties, we were raised on the music of Petra.
So how, how did this whole project even start?
Joe (01:45):
Yeah, that's a good question.
Um, well, we were, you know, everybody's got like those, you know, those filmsyou wanna make and at one point we felt really inspired to tell a story about.
Hearing God's voice and following what God says to do, even if it's an impossible task.
And so we, um, my team and I, we got, I brought an idea to the guys one time.
I said, what, what if we tell a story kinda like a faith-based story, kinda like Field ofDreams where this kid hears this voice, So everybody was like, oh, yeah, that's kind of cool.
(02:13):
So we developed this for a long time and we were calling this movie The Marathon.
And um, there was about this kid who heard this voiceand he, he felt like he needed to run this marathon.
And, uh, one day I just, I woke up and I, I called the guys.
I said, you know what?
I said, this movie should be in the eighties.
I said, there's no faith-based movies that take place in the eighties.
And so everybody's like, okay.
(02:34):
so then we're going down this development road and, um.
I said, well, if we're gonna make an eighties faith-based movie, we're gonna make it authentic.
So I went on this Spotify rabbit hole man, and I just listened to everyeighties Christian band I could find, every song: GeGarmo and Key, Rez Band, Striper, uh, Brian Duncan, like, you name it, I just went through all of it.
(02:57):
And you know, Petra, of course, is sort of the darling of that generation and.
The Song Beyond Belief, which I know is their most popular song.
I just kept listening to the song over and over and over again, like probably a thousand times.
And um, I went to the guys and I said, listen guys, not only do Ithink this is the best song of this, at least in my opinion of this, of this era, I said, you guys won't believe the lyrics to the song.
(03:24):
This is what our movie is about.
Everybody was like, okay, that's kind of cool.
So what Joe?
And I said, well, I wonder if Petra would would do this movie with us.
And everybody's like, okay, whatever Joe, go figure that out.
We'll, we'll stay in the real world.
You, you go see what you can do.
So I went down, my sort of what producers do sometimes, which is.
(03:47):
You throw stuff against the wall, you see what you can find.
And I went on this little journey to find Petra.
And, um, Petra really at the time wasn't doing anything.
They were, had been retired, and this was about three years ago, andI was trying to find Bob Hartman and, um, it was very hard to find.
you know, and, and finally I did, I, I, I met, I,it took me a long time and, and I found Bob Hartman.
(04:11):
I got on the phone with Bob Hartman and I, said, Bob, listen, um, I am not callingfrom Hollywood and I don't have any money, but I've got this idea for a movie.
What do you think?
and so I kind of told him what we were gonna do and he,just said in the way, if you anybody knows, Bob Hartman.
And, um, he just said, okay.
(04:31):
And so that's how this whole thing kind of came around.
We, started building this, movie, around the, the music of Petra.
And, and so the movie's not about Petra, but we took Petra's music and we put it in the movie.
So, even though it's a modern faith-based movie, the soundtrack of the film hasfeaturing all these Petra songs and we, infused them throughout the entire movie.
(04:51):
Um, we had a blast and then I, uh, through this time of these last few years.
Petra, John Schlitt and Bob Hardman, and all the guys,you know, have become, I'm humbled to call them friends.
Um, they've welcomed us, they've partnered with us, we went a tour with them.
Um, we've gotten to know them.
They've been amazing.
And sometimes when I even sitting here telling you about it, it's still sort of adream to me and actually what's happening so obviously we call the movie Beyond
(05:19):
Belief, and that's kinda where we're at.
Matt (05:21):
So typically for those listening, when you.
If you make a phone call and you say, Hey, giant rockstar, I'm a guy you'venever met, you've never heard my name, you don't recognize me at all.
Uh, I wanna make a movie with you and I don't have any money.
The next sound you hear is click.
So that's a miracle to be able to connect with him despite the honesty of that intro.
Joe (05:43):
Absolutely.
And, and Bob is, you know, Bob Harmon is, iconic, you know, Petra iconic, Bobis one of the, maybe the most respected person in contemporary Christian music.
When I was talking to people, when I was trying to find Bob, which was hardto find, um, and I'm good at finding people, um, they said, you know, Joe,
everybody loves Bob.
Like he's, everybody loves Bob.
(06:05):
Everybody respects Bob, but Bob is retired.
Like Bob's not doing this anymore.
It's over.
Like he's never gonna do it.
And.
I said, all right.
And I, like so many things that happened during this movie, you're totally right.
And you're, and what you're explaining is this was just, um, this was a divine intervention.
Um, this was God's leading us, leading me.
(06:25):
And, um, you're right, because there's no other reason for them to want to do this than justbelieving in the fact that God led us together and that, um, you know, that means something.
And so it's, it's been that sort of a journey for us the whole way with this movie.
Matt (06:39):
It sounds like the plot line of the background of this movie is, is the plot of Sing.
Uh, yeah, sing too.
They got a go get bono.
Joe (06:47):
Yeah.
Right.
it's funny when I talk to people about Beyond Belief, and maybeyou were gonna ask this question, I'll usurp you a little bit.
Every once they're like, oh, so you guys are making a movie about Petra?
That's what everybody thinks, which I understand becausemaking a movie about Petra is, it's like a really good idea.
Like, that would be a really interesting, great movie, right?
Um, but then when I tell people I go, no, it's actually not about Petra.
(07:08):
We made a movie with Petra.
We made a movie about a kid in the eighties who likes Petra.
you know, we made a movie about a kid in the eighties who, who's growing up with Petra's music,
Matt (07:18):
So Petra becomes a character in, in the
Joe (07:21):
yes, yes.
Matt (07:22):
I find that is, I find that more interesting,
Joe (07:25):
Yeah, we, we, we wrote Petra into the movie.
Like this kid, he's got a Christian rock band in the eighties, right?
he likes Petra, he goes to Petra, concerts, he does all these things and what's interesting,you know, I, I gotta tell you this straight away, I totally underestimated Petra.
I mean, I knew Petra was a big deal and I knew they were iconicand all this stuff, but I can't tell you, I, I underestimated how.
(07:48):
Um, how grandiose this, this idea, it's almost like a myth, this sort ofthing of petro and there's a whole generation, this is really interesting.
There's a whole generation of people who grew up in the church in the eighties, right.
And this has never been put on film before there's been a fewfeel like unsung hero was in the eighties now that came out.
(08:09):
You know, last year, so we were already in production, so I'll give you credit.
There's, there's another movie called Elect Jesus that you might be familiar with
Matt (08:17):
A good, A
good friend of mine was in that movie.
Joe (08:19):
yeah, it wasn't necessarily a faith-based movie, but there's never in history been a movie that has a Petra song in it.
Matt (08:26):
because they had, they focused on striper and Electric Jesus
Joe (08:29):
yeah, and just think about that for a second.
Now, I know Petra made the video album.
Beyond Belief, the video album.
Right.
But that was like a short movie.
There has never been a movie secular or Christian ever that has ever had a Petra song in it before.
Matt (08:44):
I love it.
Joe (08:45):
when we talk to, you know, capital Records and like Curb Records, they're like, huh?
They're like, what you want?
You want to use what?
We're like, we wanna use Petra's catalog.
And they're like, go for it.
Matt (08:56):
Now, that's, that's kind of amazing because when, I know for a fact when you're doing a, a independent film and you're scraping for the budget, the most expensive part can be getting the licensing for the music.
'cause you gotta pay.
A lot of people don't know this a.
You gotta pay performance rights and you gotta pay publishing.
And a lot of times, two different companies own, you know, one company owned the publishing.
(09:17):
One company will, will own the, uh, the record.
And, they'll play off each other.
You know, what does the publishing want?
Oh, they want 15, then we want 15 grand too per song.
Right?
So each song's $35,000 and that can just kill your, budget.
So the fact that you were able to have access to their catalogfor this movie is, I think that's a miracle in and of itself.
Joe (09:36):
it is.
This is another God thing.
It was a thing we, um.
We have Bob's permission blessing, um, which goes a long way.
Don't get me wrong in this business.
That means something to a lot of people.
But sure, we had to get the record companies to agree to let us use music.
We have, to pay for that and all the things we had to do.
And, um, we were able to do it.
and, uh, we're we're blessed to be on measure to have this film, uh, coming out.
(09:59):
'cause I think what's really gonna be really fun aboutthis movie is that it is a modern faith-based film.
It's made for the modern faith-based audience, but there's a whole generation, like my son, Ihave a 13-year-old son, and this is gonna be the introduction to the younger generation of Petra.
This is gonna be like, hey, like, you know those bands that you listen to, like, we're kindof on third generation now, like with the Forest Franks and the Lauren Dagels, but the John Coopers and the Bart Millard's and, and the, the Mack Powells, they were all petro fans.
(10:27):
All of them.
Matt (10:27):
A hundred percent.
They were.
Joe (10:29):
the only reason.
they're, they did what they did was because of what John and Bob and, and Greg Voltz did, right?
and John Lowry and those guys.
So we're like now saying like, to these kids here, you know, likein the eighties, Christian music, it, was different than it is now.
It was, it was elusive.
It was powerful.
Not that it's not today, but it meant something was different back then because, um.
(10:50):
There really wasn't a lot of, especially from a rock perspective,most people's kids' parents wouldn't even let 'em listen to Petra.
'Cause they thought it was like, rock and roll can't be music.
And that's what Petra did.
they made rock and roll music, Christian rock and roll music, um, that the church would then play.
And it was the first time and it's important and it means something.
Matt (11:10):
I saw Petra, I was probably nine years old and we went down to Macon, Georgia to the Macon Coliseum.
I mean, there were 10,000 people in there, and I'mgonna tell you, those guys put on a rock and roll show.
It was, they were rock stars, but they were also evangelizing it.
wasn't cheesy or forced.
It was just really great rock and roll, eighties rock and roll, mind you.
(11:33):
But it was rock and roll.
Joe (11:34):
So when we got, you know, about a year into this process, um.
Petra decided to go on tour and they're like, we're gonna go on tour again.
And I'm like, okay.
and I said, well, how can we help this?
Like, you guys can come with if you want.
So we actually went on tour with Petra.
We didn't do all their shows, but we got to show up andpromote the film and have a, a booth and talk from the stage.
Matt (11:57):
Did you play the trailer for the audience?
Joe (11:59):
Well, we didn't have, we had like our, our our, uh, crowdfund video played that and stuff, but again, back to the, um, the underestimating the power of what Petra meant to that generation.
when we would meet people, because we interviewed people at the concerts andpeople don't come up to you and tell you what their favorite Petra song is.
That's not what they do.
They don't come up and say, oh, let me tell you what my favorite Petra album is.
(12:21):
That's not what they do.
They come up to you and they say, this is the this, this music changed my life.
They say, this is, this is the music that changed my life.
This is the soundtrack of my, of my childhood.
Um, I mean thousands of people.
And, and we only went to like a handful of shows.
Um, it's amazing the power.
(12:42):
I remember when, we were very fortunate, we were in productionon this movie last fall, and John and Bob came to set.
For a couple days, which was amazing.
Right.
And we had, um, we did some media while we were there.
So we had some, people from Chicago Media and Christian Media come, andit's the same story because some of these people had never met John and Bob, they've been in Christian music, media their whole life, never met 'em.
(13:06):
And when they're interviewing them, after their interviewing them,they're crying or they can't, they just, they can't, they can't handle it.
That they're just like, they're, and they're trying to communicate to them.
what they meant, what it meant to them for what they did with that ministry.
Um, it's amazing, it's powerful and, uh, we're so, honored to justbe able to share a little bit of that with, the next generation.
Matt (13:33):
I gotta tell you it's very clear when you're talking to a filmmaker who is not just passionate about his, his project, but this enthusiastic you because at this point in the process, you've gone through pre-production.
You've gone through all the, Difficulties of getting there.
You've gotten there.
You've, Are you done with post now?
Joe (13:51):
Almost.
We're almost done.
Matt (13:53):
Well, this is usually the part where you've pulled all your hair out, but you're not doing that.
You're still enthusiastic about this.
So that's a very, very good sign about what's to come on the screen.
Uh, if you're still in, in a good place,
Let's talk a little bit about the story though.
So it's kind of a field of dreams, uh, for a youth set in the eighties to the music of Petra.
(14:13):
That's what I got so far.
Tell me a little more about the story.
Joe (14:15):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So we, we pitched it as it's kind of Field of Dreams meets the Karate Kid, that takesplace, you know, in the eighties, and when you, you know, you say that enough times to people and you know, it eventually it makes sense ' cause it really doesn't make much sense.
But essentially, the story centers around this young kid who'sgrowing up in the eighties and he wants to be a rock star, like Petra.
(14:37):
He lives of a small mid-western town and he has a band.
So there is actually original music also in this film.
So he has a band 'cause he wants to be like Petra.
And he is, you know, kind of going through his trials and there's, some, his dad dies and therewas these things going on and he's trying to get out of this town and, um, things like that.
And, somewhere early in the film he, he hears a voice and thisvoice is telling him one word, the voice tells him to run.
(15:05):
So throughout the story of this movie, this boy is now dealingwith the fact that he is trying to be this Christian rock star.
And he is dealing with all these things that are going on inhis life, but he's, heard this voice, it's very mysterious.
He's the only one that can hear it.
And he is now having to understand who, who is saying this to me?
Is this God talking to me?
Is somebody playing a joke on me?
What does this mean?
(15:25):
And he kinda goes through this process of trying to figure out what does this mean?
And um, he kind of lands on the idea that God is... this voice is leading him to run a marathon,which is something that he cannot do because, you know, he can't run a marathon to him.
It's impossible.
so then our movie sort of becomes The Karate Kid in the sense that our boy, he finds somebodythat's gonna help him learn how to do this and he's gotta go through those trials and ultimately ends up, you, you're probably not going to be expecting how this is going to end, but at the end, the, point of beyond belief, Is that God calls us to do things that we are not qualified for.
(16:01):
He calls us to do things that are impossible.
And we see this in the Bible all the time, Noah and Moses and Joshua, right?
And I think, you know, if, if you read between the lines alittle bit, it's how these stories play out in the Bible.
you can picture some of these characters and sometimes it's in there, some nodof like looking up at God and just being like, why are you asking me to do this?
I'm not qualified for this.
I cannot do this.
And God's response to looking down at us is like, yeah, I know you're right.
(16:26):
You can't do
this.
You're not qualified to do this.
But that is not why I asked you.
I asked you to do it because I will go before you, and if you dowhat I say, then your enemies will be made foot stools at your feet.
And so his whole movie is about faith versus reality.
are you going to trust faith?
Are you going to, hang on to faith?
(16:48):
Are you gonna just go by what's five feet in front of your face and what you can see?
we all have to make that choice.
I think we all get the nudge if we're Christians, right?
We have a Holy Spirit living inside of us, and that Holy Spirit speaks to us, right?
And sometimes it asks us to move mountains and sometimes itasks us to just, Hey, go say hi to that person on the street or.
Go give that homeless person a dollar, whatever it is, and we struggle with that, right?
(17:10):
we get that in our head and we, oh, God's speaking to me.
What we're trying to say in this movie, like, what thisboy has to go through is, Hey, listen, here's the message.
This is the vision that was put on our heart that Ithink God wants to, to get the word out to people.
Say, listen... why don't you just take a step in that direction and see what God might do.
Matt (17:28):
I'm sold.
Where do I buy tickets?
I am ready.
When's it
coming to a theater near me.
Right?
Joe (17:32):
No, uh,
Matt (17:33):
when's the trailer coming out?
'cause I, I'm already intrigued by your description of the story.
Obviously you gotta get the post done and then you'll, you'll send it to the trailer people.
But I'm ready to see a trailer now.
Joe (17:43):
so everything's in process.
Like we're, I don't wanna say like, because I don't know yet,like I can tell you is that the movie's in a really good place.
Um, everything's being in process.
I know everybody's asking us this all the time, and I understand.
Matt (17:55):
Especially your investors.
When's this gonna get done?
Joe (17:57):
yeah.
I would say like.
It's coming.
Like we're getting there.
And I would say just keep an eye... We're, we're pretty active on social media.
Um, we post a lot.
we give information, so I would say keep an eye on that.
Um, it's coming like everything's coming.
We're, when you're doing a film and you, you can appreciate this too.
Um, you gotta be really careful with how you release your film and how you releaseinformation about your film and my team and I, um, we really believe, and as, as I'm sure maybe you can kind of sense, we believe that this movie is really something special.
(18:30):
We really think there's something here.
We feel a great responsibility to telling the story.
We feel a great, a great responsibility having Petra involved in this project, and we are gonnamake, we are being incredibly, uh, diligent and good stewards with everything we've been given.
We've been blessed beyond measure with this project, and we're just tryingto make sure that everything we do is, done as best that we possibly can.
(18:54):
And that's all I can tell you.
Um, but it's coming.
Matt (18:56):
No, that's, great information.
It's on the way.
So I always like to find one moment in these conversationswhere I kind of go, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
Future filmmakers out there listening to this.
this is a great lesson because when you are in post-production, especially on a projectlike this, There are going to be people, whether it be a, a goofy podcaster or your investors typically who are going to be pushing you and pushing you, why isn't this done?
(19:21):
Why isn't this done?
And, there is a, a tendency you wanna push yourself through and just, I gotta get it done.
But you really have to hang on and obviously you have towork diligently as you say you are and be good stewards.
but you can't rush that process.
The process has to play itself out in order for you to get the best product on the screen.
'cause you don't want to get the final cut.
(19:43):
and have to go back and redo things.
You know, once you start putting it into to research phase, you wanna have it as, best you can.
So, uh, listen to Joe's description of his patience with this.
Wandering in the desert for 40 years in post can feellike that, but you have to get it as perfect as it can be.
Joe (20:02):
Absolutely.
Uh, it, it's good advice.
I would layer this in there too.
you know, this is the third film we've done and we're incrediblyblessed with the people that we work with on our projects, and I would.
you know, we're a very small company.
we've never even had a movie in the movie theater beforeand we're just a smidge in this industry at the moment.
But I would, stress to young filmmakers who are trying to dothis, align yourself with people that believe in your mission.
(20:25):
Align yourself with people who believe in your mission.
Whether that's your investors, whether that's yourpartners, whether that's your, crew, your ca, whoever it is.
Because if you can align everybody, everybody on your team to yourmission, then everybody has the same goal and you'll avoid some of those issues that you're talking about, which are very real, right?
(20:45):
And so on Beyond Belief, I feel we have been.
Again, I think I've said it three times, we are blessed beyond measurebecause every person who is involved with this project has the same goal.
and we are all in this for one reason only to tellthe story, to inspire people to follow God's voice.
that's what we're trying to do and doing it in a very entertaining way.
(21:07):
but you are absolutely right.
This process is very tedious.
When you're an independent film company, you are limited.
I mean, everybody's limited to an extent.
When you're an independent film company, you have limited resources, you have limited time,you have limited, you know, everything, and you have to make the most of what you can.
And it, can be a very daunting process.
But I'll tell you, um, as hard as this is and is, Imean, we made a period piece as an independence film.
(21:31):
the only thing we could have done was dumber than this.
Put animals and a baby in it.
I
mean, that's, that's pretty much it.
Um.
can say very confidently, as hard as this was everybodywho worked on this, we'd go back and do it again..
Matt (21:43):
I love that.
you said everybody's gotta be aligned in the mission.
I think I would add to that everybody also has to be aligned in the creative vision.
So if you've got everybody aligned in the mission and the creative vision, and I'm gonnaadd to that, you've gotta have leadership up top who is as enthusiastic about it as you are.
'cause that's what creates the culture.
(22:04):
That's what aligns everyone to the mission and the vision is that you as the executiveproducer and the, you know, the director of the producers, you guys have to have this kind of enthusiasm for the mission of the project and the vision of the creative.
That's what lines everybody up underneath you.
Joe (22:20):
No, you're right.
and again, like what we did and what we're doing andhow this is all going, it, we could not have done this.
we have felt God's favor on I know people say that all the time.
it got to be to the point where it just became hilarious what was happening on our film set.
it was like undeniable.
Matt (22:36):
I need some examples.
I love these stories.
I, hear these stories all
Joe (22:39):
right there, there was, man, how much time do you have?
Um, I give you couple quick stories.
I mean, there, there was one time we were shooting in a, in a, in alocation and the location said, oh, we need like $5,000 more money.
And we're like.
What, and we're there like it's production day, like number 20 or whatever.
And so I'm just like, all right, okay, I guess we need to pay this extra $5,000.
(23:02):
I guess I'll have to go figure out where it's gonna come from.
I walk outside and we have a crowdfunding platform that had been on.
We hadn't really been using it very much 'cause we were in productionand as soon as I walked outside, I got an email from our crowdfund.
The exact money we had just spent at the venue had shown up.
not, I'm not kidding.
I, I'm not, this is not hyperly.
I remember I looked at it and my producer, Dave, who andI were dealing with this issue, I said, Dave, be quiet.
(23:26):
Look at this.
I held my phone up and he looked and he looked at me I'm like, that just happened.
Um, there was another time where we, um, we lost a location.
Um, we, we was, the day before we were like, it was like, I dunno, five o'clock and uh, we weresupposed to film at this location the next morning, and it was a location that was going to be.
Not only a shooting location, but also storage location for the next month.
(23:49):
It was a pretty important thing.
We had worked all this out.
There's something happened and it was five o'clock the day before and we didn't have it.
We, we literally lost it and we had to be there the next morning at six o'clock.
We were on day, like three or four production and, um.
I was like, oh my gosh.
And so I had somebody, we were in this great little town in Illinois thatwas incredibly helpful and I, called them and said, what are we gonna do?
(24:11):
And they said, well call this person.
So the secretary, this gal who really helped it, who was somebody at theiroffice who's incredibly helpful, said, well, I may have somebody can help you.
So she said call this guy, he is got a warehouse.
So I call this guy and I'm on the phone and I'm talking about as fast as I'm talking to youright now, and I'm like, Hey, listen, uh, we're making a movie and we need a place to store these cars, and we need to do four minutes process, and we, we need to be there like tomorrow.
(24:33):
And I'm going on and on and on.
This guy just stops me.
This is like 20 minutes later in this, we lost his location.
He just stops in middle.
He is like, listen, he's, it's fine.
You can use it.
I'm like, what?
He's like, just come over.
So I went over there and I walked in there.
It's like five 30 now.
This happened at five, now it's like five 30.
And I'm walking in this place and I, I'm not making any of this up.
(24:54):
And the guy looks at me.
I don't know this guy.
I just met him on the phone and he looks at me, he goes, Joe,you seem really, you were just talking to me on the phone.?
You seem really stressed about this.
I said, yeah, I am.
He goes, you, you're okay.
Don't worry.
it's fine the whole place is yours.
You can do whatever you want with it.. Lemme give you the key, lemme show you where you're at.
And that's what we used for the next month.
It just kept happening over and over again.
'cause you know the challenges of making films, you need things like that to happen.
(25:16):
But some of the things that were happening to us, um, when you call your team andthey're like, uh, hey, uh, assistant director, uh, we're not going to that warehouse.
Where are we going?
We're got a different one.
And we're like,
Matt (25:27):
How
Joe (25:27):
did you do that?
I'm like, I have no idea how we did it.
It's just
God looking down on us.
And.
Matt (25:32):
You knew how it happened.
You knew how it happened.
Joe (25:34):
It's just, it's God looking down on us and just being like, you know what?
I really want you to make this movie and you guys keep messing it up.
Matt (25:39):
Lesson number two then, that I'm hearing from this.
Ding, ding, ding.
If you're a producer and an unexpected expense pops up, it's probably a good ideato look to God to cover that and not to your marketing budget, because that's what usually happens is you drain the marketing budget from unexpected expenses.
Joe (25:57):
yeah, well we did that too, but uh, it's just.
All in all to be where we're at with, all the thingsthat did happen on the set, uh, over and over again.
It's just, uh, it's just amazing stuff.
know, I tell you, it's, the, we, everybody wants the movie to be successful, right?
Everybody wants to be able to show it to people and talk about it,and, you know, should Beyond Belief become successful, to the point where people actually do want me to come out and talk about it.
(26:21):
I, really can't wait to share these stories of, Hey, you have no idea how.
We could not have done this because we're, we're not good enough.
We, we don't, we couldn't have done this.
Matt (26:33):
Just like the
story of the kid running a marathon.
Joe (26:34):
Well, that's the thing.
That's my story because I'm not a filmmaker.
I have no experience doing this.
I, I, I heard this call about 15 years ago, and it's a long story.
And, um, I just said, I'll go.
I said, okay, I'll give it a shot.
I'll go, I'll see how this works.
And you know, this happens.
That happens.
And, that is what, the story is.
Matt (26:56):
Hey, like you said, man, Abraham was too old and, uh, too rich and comfortable to leave and, uh, go have a bunch of children.
But yet, you know, when you, heed the call, Joe, tell us how we can kind of follow you.
What, what are your social media handles?
We wanna follow this project.
Joe (27:11):
We're everywhere, man.
So like, we're on Facebook, we're on Instagram, we're on TikTok, we're on YouTube.
We're everywhere.
So if you just go to those places, you can go to intrigue films.com.
we have, you know, I think it's Beyond Belief dot movie.
Uh, we're not hard to find,
Matt (27:24):
if I get on socials and I search
Beyond
belief movie.
I'll, you'll find it.
Joe (27:28):
You know, we, we encourage people to follow us and IMDBs, we got all our stuff on there, so I wanna check out some of that.
we're trying to be as, proactive with that as we can to keep everybody involved in the process.
Matt (27:38):
happen in God's timing, brother.
Joe (27:40):
Absolutely.
Yeah, soon.
It's coming.
It's coming soon.
Matt (27:41):
Very good.
That's awesome.
We can't wait to see it.
Uh, you know what, when it comes out in theaters, we'll try to have you back on and we'lltalk about the actual hardest part of filmmaking, which is marketing and distribution.
So you got your work cut out for you, but it sounds likeyou got the, the type of film that's set up to succeed.
So Joe Sanders, thanks again man so much for taking a little timeand talking to us today on the Faith and Family Filmmakers podcast.
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