July 20, 2025 • 35 mins
Christianity and politics – a relationship as old as democracy itself, yet increasingly fraught with division in our modern world. In this raw, unfiltered conversation, I invite my husband John, a pastor with decades of experience, to tackle the thorny question: How should Christians navigate today's political landscape while staying true to their faith?
The dialogue quickly moves beyond surface-level platitudes as we share personal stories of racial profiling and explore how political allegiances have created deep rifts even among fellow believers. "It has exposed us," I note about recent political events, "and in some cases I've been quite actually embarrassed." Their honest assessment challenges listeners to examine whether political identities have overshadowed Christian values.
John brings pastoral wisdom to the conversation, reminding us that Jesus was "a unifier" who taught love, grace, and mercy – qualities often missing in today's political discourse. In this episode, we tackle controversial topics like the Black Lives Matter movement, abortion rights, and the tendency for Christians to expect special treatment from politicians who share our faith.
Perhaps most powerful is our discussion of Jesus's teaching that "a house divided cannot stand." As John warns, "I don't believe God will allow Christianity to fall, but there's going to be a lot of churches that fall" due to political division. This sobering reality check leads to our final challenge: What are you personally doing to heal division and bring people together?
Whether you're wrestling with your own political-religious identity or seeking to understand those across the aisle, this episode provides a thoughtful framework for engaging with politics as a person of faith. Subscribe to Faith Unmuted for more conversations that help Christian women live unapologetically and stop hiding behind expected norms.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You are listening to Faith Unmuted.
The place where Christian womenget the opportunity to press
the button and say what theywant, how they want and exactly
how they feel.
The one place where, together,we can collectively walk through
our truths, liveunapologetically and stop hiding
.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
So here's the question Christianity and
politics where does it go, whendoes it belong and how do we as
Christians navigate thepolitical climate today?
So I brought someone in to havethis discussion with us, my
very own, my lover.
(00:52):
That's right, ladies, I said mylover, my friend, someone I
100% admire, my husband, John.
Say hello, babe, Hello, babe,Hello.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Everybody Say hello babe, Hello babe, Hello
everybody.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Christianity and politics.
I actually think that he's theperfect person to talk about
this, because he's a pastor, andthis is a conversation that we
have quite often, especiallywithin the past I'm going to say
the past.
What two?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Maybe longer than that.
Yeah, probably about the lastsix years.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Last six years, yeah, and because what's happened is,
you know, I guess politics andChristianity have always somehow
go together, but I think inmany ways, it clouds the policy.
(01:49):
The political part of it canreally cloud who we are, I
believe, as Christians right,and so I think it's something
that just really needs to bediscussed very transparently,
because there's a lot of thingsthat we as Christians and I
include myself in this is thatwe say we're doing this is all
in the name of God and all ofthese different kinds of things,
but it looks absolutely nothinglike God and how our political
climate is going today, with somany things that it looks as if
(02:12):
oh well, you know, we'rebringing our nation back to God,
we're doing this and doing allthese things, but it really
looks like if we're moving awayinstead of going towards God.
That's my opinion.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Right.
Well, you know, as we'vediscussed many times in the past
, that politics, again, andChristianity can coexist.
However, when we look at, weexpect a politician that says
that they're a Christian, thatprofesses Christianity.
(02:46):
We expect that politician tobasically give Christians for
lack of a better word an unfairadvantage over everyone else,
whereas that's not how it shouldbe, because if you're a
politician, then you're supposedto be for all the people, not
just some of the people.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
And I think that's what is happening, especially in
today's I want to say politicalenvironment.
I guess is that it appears likeif there's such a difference,
honestly, with how we, asChristians are approaching our
(03:27):
political beliefs, and in somany ways that it's beginning to
separate us as Christiansinstead of bringing us together,
because there appears to besuch divisiveness just within
the Christian community, andthat is where it 100%,
absolutely does not belong.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah, Well, you know, if we're talking Christians,
then we're talking aboutfollowers of Christ, followers
of Jesus Christ, and, in essence, jesus wasn't a divider, so to
speak.
He was a unifier.
So he unified people throughhis teachings on love, on grace,
on mercy and all of thosethings.
(04:10):
And then and can I say this,and I'm not going to say it
carefully, because it's bothsides of the political arena
that it's becoming somewhatdifficult to trust, you know,
those that we vote for and thatwe vote into office for it's
(04:34):
becoming difficult to trust bothRepublicans and Democrats and
independents, independents andwhoever else you know, because I
believe it's becoming moreabout what, what the politician
can get out of the, out of theposition in the office, versus
(04:54):
what they are meant to do is todo what's best for all the
people.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, yeah, I love how you said it's to do what's
best for all the people, but weactually we're not.
We're not seeing that right nowand I even think that we're not
seeing it even in our ownChristian community.
Um, to where we're really, uh,if, if, if I don't agree with
(05:21):
you, you know.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Then you're cut off.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I'm cut off, right or discrimination takes place, and
I honestly do believe that thispolitical climate for the past
few years has really brought outwho we really are as Christians
.
You know who we really are.
It has exposed us and can Ijust say, it has not been pretty
(05:45):
in my opinion, and in somecases I've been quite actually
embarrassed and like, oh my gosh, I cannot believe that this
person is doing this or justsaid this and they represent God
.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Right.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
They represent Jesus, you understand.
They represent Jesus youunderstand.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Yeah, If we go back a few years back say 2020, when
there were a lot of protests andall those things you know Black
Lives Matter and all of thatwas going on, it was interesting
to see that there was quite adivision between people of color
(06:27):
and people that were not ofcolor.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah Right, I mean, let's say, people of color and
white people.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Yeah, we can say that yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
There was a very, very strong disconnect there was
.
And people that I worshiped with, that I ate with, and all of
those things became silent,either silent or spoke
negatively about people wantingto express their constitutional
(06:59):
rights and such, and they becamesilent and such and they became
silent.
And if we're silent and we havethe ability to speak or to do
something and we don't, webecome complicit.
It may be just as bad if we didit ourselves, if we disparaged,
(07:20):
if we held back, if wediscriminated against.
That makes us complicit if wesay nothing and we do nothing.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, it does.
And I want to go even to say,you know, for those who went
silent, but I also want to bringout that you know, I've seen
posts and people, I know who youknow all lives matter.
Well, of course, everyone knowsthat all lives matter.
(07:56):
We know this.
But when we're saying BlackLives Matter, it's really saying
we've got to focus because itwas Black lives that were being
killed, it's Black lives that'sbeing, you know, shot down or or
murdered, or it wasn't alllives, it was black lives and so
that's why it became blacklives matter.
And I understand that somepeople say, well, it goes deeper
than that politically and allthat.
Okay, that's fine, that's fine.
(08:18):
I'm not talking about that.
What I am saying is that alllives do matter.
But when we're talking aboutBlack Lives Matter, it was
because it was the black lifethat was being gunned down or
beaten or shot to death.
It wasn't all lives, it was theblack life and that was what
the focus was on and it wasimportant to bring that out.
And so, while we agree blacklives matter 100 percent, we
(08:41):
agree all lives matter.
That's a given.
Blue lives matter, all of thatwe know this Life is important,
but I do think at some point wehave to bring out what's really
happening, what the issue reallyis.
I was going to say, and then Ithink everyone just wanted to
shut that down, and it wasreally kind of disappointing,
(09:04):
especially with many of ourfaith leaders.
Right, all right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah, and if you put that in the same light, let's
look at Russia and Ukraine.
Yeah, and when Russia invadedUkraine and all these lives were
being taken, destroyed andeverything, we went all in on
that and it's, in essence, thesame thing.
You could say that everycountry deserves to exist
(09:34):
peacefully, such and such, youknow, and so and so, but not
every country exists, you know,in peace.
You know in peace, but Ukrainewas the one at that time that
was really really being what'sthe word?
(09:55):
Attacked, you know, in a really, really vicious way, right?
So we didn't say that allcountries, right, deserve peace
and deserve to keep their youknow their land.
We didn't say we didn't say allcountries.
We said you know their land.
We didn't say all countries.
We said you know, everybody wasfor Ukraine.
You saw on the Facebook postthe Ukraine flag, you know, and
those things.
So saying Black Lives Matter isputting the focus on what's
(10:19):
going on right now, right, andyou know the same as Ukraine.
When you say all lives matter,you're taking the light off of
that.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Right yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
And, and then people tend to begin to forget and
normalize something that shouldnot ever be normalized.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Should not ever be normalized.
It's like you know, and and andthis is me in my very
simplistic, very simple way ofthinking, you know, even in this
past election season and it'shappened before where it was
like the evangelicals and thenon evangelicals, and so that
(11:01):
for me became very disturbing,because what does that mean?
So the evangelicals?
And so if I was not?
How I felt is, if I did notsupport this particular
candidate, then I was not theright kind of Christian or a
Christian at all.
Does that make sense?
(11:21):
And so it's just.
And then I don't know how toexplain it, but it was, it was
just really disappointing, youknow so, but what I see was
determined as the evangelicalssupporting and doing all these
kinds of these different things.
Is this, is this God?
Is this for me?
(11:43):
I see that it's not.
This is me, though.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Yeah, I've been been, and you know I've been been
preaching for decades, yeah, andand it's always a never gear a
message or a sermon on, you know, based on one person or one
group of people.
I, because I think it wasteseveryone else's time and it
wastes my time as well.
(12:08):
Yeah, and God's time, you know.
So if God isn't directing andleading in that message or that
sermon, there's a problem, right?
So when I begin to point at oneperson or point at one group of
people, so when I begin topoint at one person or point at
(12:35):
one group of people, then againI'm shortchanging everyone else.
So my endeavor and my desireevery time is to just say what
God says.
And we can basically take whatis the Word of God and twist it
and manipulate it into anydirection that we want.
Now, it can be done, but there'sa consequence for that, and you
(13:00):
don't want to be the one that'stwisting God's word for your
own selfish purposes and gain.
So I find that that's happeninga lot.
So, politically, with again, ifwe go back to Black Lives
Matter, and even now, in thispolitical climate that we're in,
(13:20):
politically, if we we Take theword of God, see what we have to
do really is get it, hear it,and then we have to seek God for
an understanding of what we'rereading and what we're hearing,
and also seek him for directionand what to say, what to do, how
(13:45):
to say it and how to do itright, or what not to say and
what not to do.
And I don't think everyone isdoing that now.
I believe that if I tooksomething that says, for
instance, wives, be submissiveto your own husbands right, I
could take that and stripeverything else away from it,
(14:08):
right, and just focus on that.
And I want you to be submissive, submissive, submissive, not
understanding.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
And I'd be like uh-uh , uh-uh, uh-uh.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Right, yeah, but yeah .
But a lot of people don'tunderstand that.
What comes with that?
In order for your wife to besubmissive to you, you have to
be submissive to him.
Yeah, yeah, right.
And you have to be submissiveto him, right, and you have to
hear him, obey him and love him,and and then the submission for
the wife isn't a struggle andit's not like submission.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
You know I'll get back to the other, you do what I
say and I become a piece of rug, and that you walk over.
No, that's just not.
And so I think, just like withthe point you bring up, we take
some things out of context andwe twist it the way we want it
so it serves our benefit.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
But it also says you know, and I don't want to keep
quoting the scriptures, but I ama pastor so the scripture also
says to submit one to anotherRight, and that's Christian to
Christian, brother to anotherright, and that's Christian to
Christian, brother to brother,sister to sister, sister to
brother, wife to husband,husband to wife.
(15:18):
Because I've got to submit toyou in some areas that I don't
know well, and if I'm wiseenough I'll submit to you.
Know, I'll let you take thelead right, and if you're wise
enough you'll let me take thelead in other areas, and then
we're you and then we're a team.
Teamwork makes the dream workright.
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
You know, going back to what about the Christianity
and politics, let's say, andgoing back to Black Lives Matter
, for example, I remember, ofcourse, when it all first came
out and everything was going on,I was very passionate about it.
First, I just sat back andlistened to what everyone was
saying, what they were saying onFacebook and just everywhere,
(16:01):
and I'm very careful as to whatI listen to and what I don't,
and I'm also very careful withwho I listen to.
I think that's really importantas well.
But, and as I looked at and I'mgoing to say, you know, we've,
we've had friends of ours.
You know that, of course, we,we don't really see often
(16:23):
anymore at all.
We really honestly, we, wereally don't see him much at all
anymore.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
But does anybody see anybody much anymore?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Well, that's true, that's that's true, that's true.
But I I remember becomingreally passionate about it, and
I remember our our adultchildren did as well, because I
thought about our two sons, whohave both been stopped because
they were black, and so for me,I understand black lives matter.
We were stopped just not toolong ago.
(16:54):
About what?
A couple months ago, right, wewere stopped actually we weren't
stopped, remember.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
I pulled the vehicle over because I thought something
hit the truck.
I get out and I check it and um, and then, as I'm going back
into the car, I see these twopolice cars coming and they're
running their lights.
I'm like, oh, I'm wonderingwhat they're going for, and I
get in the truck and they pullin right behind me.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
And that's when they asked you know where are you
going, what are you doing?
Da-da-da-da.
So you know, this is my wife,this is my daughter going home.
Just came from across thebridge, okay, okay, and I drive
a huge Chevy Silverado, right,and they said they were looking
for and my truck is gray, yeah,and they were looking for a
(17:45):
white Chevy Equinox.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Exactly, and so how?
And we looked at them like,okay, so why are you yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
So let me see your license, your registration.
Why do you need to see mylicense registration?
I just got out to check mytruck, Right?
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, and the reason that you got out to check your
truck was because something cameflying out of the bushes and
hit the windshield, so westopped for safety reasons to
see what's going on.
But that's exactly what I'mtalking about.
I remember our son, our eldestson, john, went into a parking
lot to make a U-turn because hedidn't want to.
You know, he couldn't make aU-turn, so he drove into the
(18:22):
parking lot to turn out so hecould go the right way, and the
cop pulled up behind him andstopped him to question him why
did you turn around?
For no reason at all.
He wasn't speeding, it was notillegal, he was perfectly in his
rights.
And so, you know, someone coinedthe phrase driving while black
right, and so this is BlackLives Matter and so.
(18:43):
But here it's expanded now,even beyond that, to where, once
again, we have now politicizedit so much, to where it's
Christianity andnon-Christianity or Christianity
versus Christianity, and thisis not, honestly, this is not
how it should be.
Here we are, as faith-basedpeople, everyone.
(19:06):
If you've got the rabbi, you'vegot the priest and everyone
else, you know we're supposed tobe setting that example of love
, not of discrimination.
Yeah, this is the bottom line.
I think for me, when I thinkabout what people are saying
(19:29):
well, we don't want this, wedon't want that, we don't want
that.
But I want to keep in mind thatGod gives us choices.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
So if he's given me a choice, why aren't you giving
me a choice, right?
Why is it that I have tobelieve like you, act like you,
do like you?
And if I don't, then?
Speaker 3 (19:46):
You love me.
Yeah, exactly, or you?
Speaker 2 (19:47):
love me?
Yeah, exactly, or I'm on thewrong side of the coin.
I just remember a statementbeing done saying that if you
are not a Republican and you'renot this, then you're not a
Christian.
Well, how is that so?
Because it doesn't matterwhether I'm Republican, democrat
, independent, blue, green,yellow, it just really doesn't
(20:11):
matter.
What matters is my relationshipwith God and who I am, and
that's really between me and him, and not me and you, right.
What also matters is how I treatthese people, how I treat God's
children, all of us, that'severyone, that's not just them,
that's even the folks that let'ssay we don't even particularly
(20:32):
care for.
How we treat them is important.
Oh, yeah, for sure.
So then what do we do?
I mean talk to us.
You're the pastor.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Well, one of the things um, as uh, as Christians,
we have a responsibility topray for our uh, our leaders,
leaders in, in every position,from, from the uh, from the, uh,
the, the, the teachers at your,at your, at your child's um, um
, child development center, fromthe, you know, pray for the
(21:04):
teachers, pray for the owners,pray for the uh, the school
board, you know, the members ofthe school board, all of these
basically elected positions.
We definitely need to praybecause we, if you're not voting
, you should vote Right, Because, again, if you have the ability
(21:24):
to make a difference and ifthat one vote can make a
difference and you decide I'mnot going to do it, and whatever
happens, you're complicit inwhatever happens, because you
decided that you're not going tovote, because you think that
your vote doesn't matter, right,and and it actually does.
So the first thing is to prayfor our leaders.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
On a regular basis.
It becomes difficult when youunderstand that there's the
person in the office and there'sthe office, the office of
whatever it is right, and thenthere's the person.
So, if the if so, we, we honorthe office and it would be.
(22:06):
It would be beautiful if wecould honor the office and the
person right.
But oftentimes, in bothpolitical arenas, we end up
honoring the office ordishonoring the office right and
not the person.
So we remove the person, um,however they act or however you
(22:30):
know, especially if we havesomeone that we say is
representing us as um Christian,so to speak, or looking out for
the Christian uh, uh, interest,so to speak, Um, but if you're
looking out for the Christian,um, uh, interest, and you have
to understand this as aChristian, if you go back and
you look at the, you know,biblically, God wasn't trying to
(22:55):
rule Rome, yeah, Right, theRomans did, you know, kind of
did their thing, and the Hebrews, or you know, or the Jews had
their thing going.
So their religion, right, theywere good and they didn't spill
over into one another, right,and there you have the
separation of church and state,right.
(23:17):
So praying for our leaders andpraying for ourselves, direction
and what we should do, how weshould do it, what we should say
, how we should say it, how weshould treat other people right
and the people that we should beand should not be connected to.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah, you know I like that because I will tell you
which you know.
You already know how I feel.
This is something that we talkabout all the time and how we
feel, and sometimes we agree andsometimes we may not agree, but
I personally, I'm tired and Iget really embarrassed with how
sometimes I see Christiansbehaving.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
You know and the things that they say and what
they believe and how they'regoing to stand.
And here, what really bothersme is that here you are, you're
a Christian, you're standing up,people know you, you're this,
and then you're supportingsomeone that is lax moral,
(24:24):
uncivilized Fortitude, Fortitude.
Let's say, yeah, you know.
How is that possible?
How can I support and it's noteven repentant of their lack of
moral fortitude that, basically,how and no matter who it is how
(24:47):
can I support that and say it'sOK?
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
And I'm a Christian and then I expect other people
to look at me and follow me and,by the way, that I feel like,
if I can rebuke you, becauseguess what?
You obviously you're notunderstanding this whole
Christianity thing, because wedon't.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Yeah, and one thing I like that you always say that
we have to see above sea level,right?
And in other words, we have tosee above what we can normally
see.
And the only way that we can dothat is through our
relationship with God and andallowing him and allowing him to
, uh, to basically direct us in,um, in again, what we're going
(25:33):
to do, what we're going to say,all of these things and um, and
it it becomes, you know,nowadays it's okay, um, I don't
agree with that, right?
So, um, I don't agree with thatat all, right, there's so many
things that we could talk about.
Let's let's say abortion, right, nobody wants to see a baby.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Nobody does.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Killed or anything like that yeah.
Understand, right, but no onewants to see.
Well, I don't, um, but no onewants to see.
Well, I don't.
I don't want to see a 12 yearold that's been impregnated by
um, by a vicious crime.
Right Now.
You don't even have to name thecrime, Everybody knows what it
is.
Right, um, I don't want to seea 12 year old girl have to deal
(26:26):
with that mentally, physicallyand in every other way.
Right?
So am I against abortion?
I'm against abortion, yes.
Am I against a woman havingchoice?
No, I'm not against that at all.
A woman, a 12-year-old girl orwhatever the case, we have the
(26:47):
right to do with what we wantwith our bodies.
Girl, or whatever the case, wehave the right to do with what
we want with our bodies and umand um, you know, uh, god is not
a, he's not a a.
A tyrannical um, you know,figure that makes you do things
(27:08):
that will destroy you mentally,physically and emotionally.
He's not that God.
He's not that God, right, he'sthe God that loves you to
healing.
He's the God that directs youin the ways that you should go
that would make your lifeprosper.
He's that God.
He wants to see us do our best.
(27:28):
He wants to see us prosper inevery area of our life.
And if we take that away frompeople, if we try to take that
away, then we ourselves areputting ourselves in the stead
and in the place of God.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Yeah, that's good.
That's good.
Yeah, listen, I just believethat all lives matter.
Black lives matter, the Latinolives matter, women's lives
matter, children, all livesmatter.
Black lives matter, the life,latino lives matter, women's
lives matter, children are.
All lives matter.
But we do have to bring thefocus on what is actually going
on in our world today.
And as Christians, right, or,let me just put it this way, as
(28:03):
people of faith, right, we needto stand up and let our voice be
heard.
I've got good friends that areMuslim.
They are Catholic.
I've got a friend that she'sthat's Buddhist.
I've got you know, and I findthem to be people of strong
character and integrity.
(28:24):
And we may have a differentfaith and, by the way, even as
Christians, some of us havedifferent beliefs and faith.
But this is it that we need torespect each other and realize
that everyone is in choice.
And if we are faith-based,let's do what God would have us
to do and let's just love andlet's not try to put my belief
(28:47):
system, but let's actually lookand see what is right and what
is wrong.
And there's no way.
And I don't care what your raceis, I don't care what your
denomination is,non-denominational, whatever I
don't care what your religiousbackground is.
Right is right and wrong iswrong.
You cannot discriminate, youcannot treat women badly, you
(29:08):
cannot sexually assault them.
There's things these are justmore to me, these are just
morality things.
This isn't even like well, I'mnot sure.
No, it's right.
And so, therefore, if littleJoe, living the way God has
planned for us to live, we haveto embrace it.
(29:37):
And here's the other piecelet's stop judging.
I don't know, maybe it soundslike if I'm judging right now, I
don't know, talking aboutChristianity and the political
system.
Maybe that's what I sound likeright now.
I don't know, but this is it.
I just feel so passionate aboutthis because I'm so tired of
and I get embarrassed, and Iknow, not all Christians are
like that, but I don't see how,how a Christian can embrace some
(29:58):
things that we are and I say weinclude myself that we are
actually embracing, or people offaith, we're embracing things
that we have no businessembracing.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
So Jesus went against the grain, right?
So he's casting out thesedevils and these demons.
And they come and they tellJesus hey, you know, he's
casting out these demons in thename of Beelzebub, right?
Which is, you know that inessence it's Satan, right?
So he's doing that in that name.
(30:33):
And Jesus comes back and hesays a house divided against
itself can't stand.
So if I'm casting them out inthe name of Beelzebub, then
that's going to fall, right.
But again, you know, a houseagainst itself cannot stand,
cannot stand.
So if we're saying, um, that weare christians and we're always
(30:57):
at each other's throats andalways fighting and can't agree
with anything, right on anything, then, um, I don't believe that
god will allow christianity tofall.
But there's going to be a lotof churches that fall.
There's going to be a lot ofchurches that fall.
There's going to be a lot ofother ministries or whatnot that
fall.
There's going to be familiesthat fall because they can't
(31:20):
come together.
When we're divided, we lose ourstrength.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
You lose our strength .
Yeah, and, by the way, when youthink about America right now.
And by the way when you thinkabout America right now, america
is divided, so that applies toAmerica as well.
A house divided, you know, ahouse divided cannot stand.
America right now is verydivided.
We are politically divided,which has caused us to be
(31:44):
racially divided.
It's caused us to be in termsof religion divided, which, by
the way, anyway, religion andreligious that separates, that
doesn't bring together anyway.
But but we've got a lot ofdivisions going on.
So a house divided cannot stand.
Our struggle right now is thatwe're divided.
We're divided and we have tocome together.
(32:05):
And I just don't know reallyhow we're going to do it.
Until we get rid of some of ourbiases and some of our judgment
and say, ok, how can we cometogether as a people?
Speaker 3 (32:16):
How can we for the?
Speaker 2 (32:17):
greater person.
How can we coexist for thegreater purpose?
Our children are depending onus.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Our children are not only depending on us, but our
children are watching us.
Yes, they are.
They're watching us and it'sgoing to do and from them
watching us, it's going to doone of two things it's either
going to draw them to where weare or it's going to push them
away from us.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Right.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Yeah.
And if we're saying that we'redoing all of this, now listen.
If we're saying we're doing allof this in the name of God, in
the name of Christianity, andour children see it and know
from what we've taught them thatit's not really Christ-like
right, then it's going to pushthem away, it's going to drive
them away and they're going tosay they want no parts of that.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Yeah, yeah, we've had some powerful leaders, know,
powerful leaders in our time.
We've, you know.
I think about Dr Martin LutherKing, I think about Mahatma
Gandhi and a few other leadersthat have just been powerful in
leading the march against anylevel of discrimination.
Women are also included, as inthat, and I think that as a
(33:29):
community, as a culture, wereally do need to really search
ourselves and we do need to cometogether and stand everyone for
what is right.
We don't have to have the samebelief system to stand together
to do what is morally right.
(33:49):
We don't.
There's some things as plain asday y'all.
It doesn't take a rocketscientist Right that we could do
together to stop the madnessthat's happening right here in
our own country.
And so you know, as we end thissession, this powerful
(34:12):
discussion, I want you to havethe discussion in your homes.
What are you doing to bring theworld together?
What are you doing to affectchange, first in your home and
then in your community, then inyour city and then in the world?
What are you doing?
You could do one small thing todo that, because it is time for
us to come together and let'sstop the madness.
Let's stop the madness that'sgoing on in DC and wherever else
(34:33):
we are.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Wasn't that episode amazing Living unapologetically.
Faith unmuted has allowed usonce again to ask ourselves the
kind of questions that will helpus get to the next level and
live this life unapologetically.
Your next step head on over towwwesthergramcom and let me know
(34:57):
what your favorite episode isAsk a question or share this
with a friend.
I can't wait to be with younext week as we dive deeper into
redefining what it means to bea Christian woman and redefining
what it means to live in ourtruth.
You are listening to Faith Unmuted.
The place where Christian womenget the opportunity to press
the button and say what theywant, how they want and exactly
how they feel.
The one place where, together,we can collectively walk through
our truths, liveunapologetically and stop hiding
.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
So here's the question Christianity and
politics where does it go, whendoes it belong and how do we as
Christians navigate thepolitical climate today?
So I brought someone in to havethis discussion with us, my
very own, my lover.
(00:52):
That's right, ladies, I said mylover, my friend, someone I
100% admire, my husband, John.
Say hello, babe, Hello, babe,Hello.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Everybody Say hello babe, Hello babe, Hello
everybody.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Christianity and politics.
I actually think that he's theperfect person to talk about
this, because he's a pastor, andthis is a conversation that we
have quite often, especiallywithin the past I'm going to say
the past.
What two?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Maybe longer than that.
Yeah, probably about the lastsix years.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Last six years, yeah, and because what's happened is,
you know, I guess politics andChristianity have always somehow
go together, but I think inmany ways, it clouds the policy.
(01:49):
The political part of it canreally cloud who we are, I
believe, as Christians right,and so I think it's something
that just really needs to bediscussed very transparently,
because there's a lot of thingsthat we as Christians and I
include myself in this is thatwe say we're doing this is all
in the name of God and all ofthese different kinds of things,
but it looks absolutely nothinglike God and how our political
climate is going today, with somany things that it looks as if
(02:12):
oh well, you know, we'rebringing our nation back to God,
we're doing this and doing allthese things, but it really
looks like if we're moving awayinstead of going towards God.
That's my opinion.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Right.
Well, you know, as we'vediscussed many times in the past
, that politics, again, andChristianity can coexist.
However, when we look at, weexpect a politician that says
that they're a Christian, thatprofesses Christianity.
(02:46):
We expect that politician tobasically give Christians for
lack of a better word an unfairadvantage over everyone else,
whereas that's not how it shouldbe, because if you're a
politician, then you're supposedto be for all the people, not
just some of the people.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
And I think that's what is happening, especially in
today's I want to say politicalenvironment.
I guess is that it appears likeif there's such a difference,
honestly, with how we, asChristians are approaching our
(03:27):
political beliefs, and in somany ways that it's beginning to
separate us as Christiansinstead of bringing us together,
because there appears to besuch divisiveness just within
the Christian community, andthat is where it 100%,
absolutely does not belong.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah, Well, you know, if we're talking Christians,
then we're talking aboutfollowers of Christ, followers
of Jesus Christ, and, in essence, jesus wasn't a divider, so to
speak.
He was a unifier.
So he unified people throughhis teachings on love, on grace,
on mercy and all of thosethings.
(04:10):
And then and can I say this,and I'm not going to say it
carefully, because it's bothsides of the political arena
that it's becoming somewhatdifficult to trust, you know,
those that we vote for and thatwe vote into office for it's
(04:34):
becoming difficult to trust bothRepublicans and Democrats and
independents, independents andwhoever else you know, because I
believe it's becoming moreabout what, what the politician
can get out of the, out of theposition in the office, versus
(04:54):
what they are meant to do is todo what's best for all the
people.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, yeah, I love how you said it's to do what's
best for all the people, but weactually we're not.
We're not seeing that right nowand I even think that we're not
seeing it even in our ownChristian community.
Um, to where we're really, uh,if, if, if I don't agree with
(05:21):
you, you know.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Then you're cut off.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I'm cut off, right or discrimination takes place, and
I honestly do believe that thispolitical climate for the past
few years has really brought outwho we really are as Christians
.
You know who we really are.
It has exposed us and can Ijust say, it has not been pretty
(05:45):
in my opinion, and in somecases I've been quite actually
embarrassed and like, oh my gosh, I cannot believe that this
person is doing this or justsaid this and they represent God
.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Right.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
They represent Jesus, you understand.
They represent Jesus youunderstand.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Yeah, If we go back a few years back say 2020, when
there were a lot of protests andall those things you know Black
Lives Matter and all of thatwas going on, it was interesting
to see that there was quite adivision between people of color
(06:27):
and people that were not ofcolor.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah Right, I mean, let's say, people of color and
white people.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Yeah, we can say that yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
There was a very, very strong disconnect there was
.
And people that I worshiped with, that I ate with, and all of
those things became silent,either silent or spoke
negatively about people wantingto express their constitutional
(06:59):
rights and such, and they becamesilent and such and they became
silent.
And if we're silent and we havethe ability to speak or to do
something and we don't, webecome complicit.
It may be just as bad if we didit ourselves, if we disparaged,
(07:20):
if we held back, if wediscriminated against.
That makes us complicit if wesay nothing and we do nothing.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, it does.
And I want to go even to say,you know, for those who went
silent, but I also want to bringout that you know, I've seen
posts and people, I know who youknow all lives matter.
Well, of course, everyone knowsthat all lives matter.
(07:56):
We know this.
But when we're saying BlackLives Matter, it's really saying
we've got to focus because itwas Black lives that were being
killed, it's Black lives that'sbeing, you know, shot down or or
murdered, or it wasn't alllives, it was black lives and so
that's why it became blacklives matter.
And I understand that somepeople say, well, it goes deeper
than that politically and allthat.
Okay, that's fine, that's fine.
(08:18):
I'm not talking about that.
What I am saying is that alllives do matter.
But when we're talking aboutBlack Lives Matter, it was
because it was the black lifethat was being gunned down or
beaten or shot to death.
It wasn't all lives, it was theblack life and that was what
the focus was on and it wasimportant to bring that out.
And so, while we agree blacklives matter 100 percent, we
(08:41):
agree all lives matter.
That's a given.
Blue lives matter, all of thatwe know this Life is important,
but I do think at some point wehave to bring out what's really
happening, what the issue reallyis.
I was going to say, and then Ithink everyone just wanted to
shut that down, and it wasreally kind of disappointing,
(09:04):
especially with many of ourfaith leaders.
Right, all right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah, and if you put that in the same light, let's
look at Russia and Ukraine.
Yeah, and when Russia invadedUkraine and all these lives were
being taken, destroyed andeverything, we went all in on
that and it's, in essence, thesame thing.
You could say that everycountry deserves to exist
(09:34):
peacefully, such and such, youknow, and so and so, but not
every country exists, you know,in peace.
You know in peace, but Ukrainewas the one at that time that
was really really being what'sthe word?
(09:55):
Attacked, you know, in a really, really vicious way, right?
So we didn't say that allcountries, right, deserve peace
and deserve to keep their youknow their land.
We didn't say we didn't say allcountries.
We said you know their land.
We didn't say all countries.
We said you know, everybody wasfor Ukraine.
You saw on the Facebook postthe Ukraine flag, you know, and
those things.
So saying Black Lives Matter isputting the focus on what's
(10:19):
going on right now, right, andyou know the same as Ukraine.
When you say all lives matter,you're taking the light off of
that.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Right yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
And, and then people tend to begin to forget and
normalize something that shouldnot ever be normalized.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Should not ever be normalized.
It's like you know, and and andthis is me in my very
simplistic, very simple way ofthinking, you know, even in this
past election season and it'shappened before where it was
like the evangelicals and thenon evangelicals, and so that
(11:01):
for me became very disturbing,because what does that mean?
So the evangelicals?
And so if I was not?
How I felt is, if I did notsupport this particular
candidate, then I was not theright kind of Christian or a
Christian at all.
Does that make sense?
(11:21):
And so it's just.
And then I don't know how toexplain it, but it was, it was
just really disappointing, youknow so, but what I see was
determined as the evangelicalssupporting and doing all these
kinds of these different things.
Is this, is this God?
Is this for me?
(11:43):
I see that it's not.
This is me, though.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Yeah, I've been been, and you know I've been been
preaching for decades, yeah, andand it's always a never gear a
message or a sermon on, you know, based on one person or one
group of people.
I, because I think it wasteseveryone else's time and it
wastes my time as well.
(12:08):
Yeah, and God's time, you know.
So if God isn't directing andleading in that message or that
sermon, there's a problem, right?
So when I begin to point at oneperson or point at one group of
people, so when I begin topoint at one person or point at
(12:35):
one group of people, then againI'm shortchanging everyone else.
So my endeavor and my desireevery time is to just say what
God says.
And we can basically take whatis the Word of God and twist it
and manipulate it into anydirection that we want.
Now, it can be done, but there'sa consequence for that, and you
(13:00):
don't want to be the one that'stwisting God's word for your
own selfish purposes and gain.
So I find that that's happeninga lot.
So, politically, with again, ifwe go back to Black Lives
Matter, and even now, in thispolitical climate that we're in,
(13:20):
politically, if we we Take theword of God, see what we have to
do really is get it, hear it,and then we have to seek God for
an understanding of what we'rereading and what we're hearing,
and also seek him for directionand what to say, what to do, how
(13:45):
to say it and how to do itright, or what not to say and
what not to do.
And I don't think everyone isdoing that now.
I believe that if I tooksomething that says, for
instance, wives, be submissiveto your own husbands right, I
could take that and stripeverything else away from it,
(14:08):
right, and just focus on that.
And I want you to be submissive, submissive, submissive, not
understanding.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
And I'd be like uh-uh , uh-uh, uh-uh.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Right, yeah, but yeah .
But a lot of people don'tunderstand that.
What comes with that?
In order for your wife to besubmissive to you, you have to
be submissive to him.
Yeah, yeah, right.
And you have to be submissiveto him, right, and you have to
hear him, obey him and love him,and and then the submission for
the wife isn't a struggle andit's not like submission.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
You know I'll get back to the other, you do what I
say and I become a piece of rug, and that you walk over.
No, that's just not.
And so I think, just like withthe point you bring up, we take
some things out of context andwe twist it the way we want it
so it serves our benefit.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
But it also says you know, and I don't want to keep
quoting the scriptures, but I ama pastor so the scripture also
says to submit one to anotherRight, and that's Christian to
Christian, brother to anotherright, and that's Christian to
Christian, brother to brother,sister to sister, sister to
brother, wife to husband,husband to wife.
(15:18):
Because I've got to submit toyou in some areas that I don't
know well, and if I'm wiseenough I'll submit to you.
Know, I'll let you take thelead right, and if you're wise
enough you'll let me take thelead in other areas, and then
we're you and then we're a team.
Teamwork makes the dream workright.
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
You know, going back to what about the Christianity
and politics, let's say, andgoing back to Black Lives Matter
, for example, I remember, ofcourse, when it all first came
out and everything was going on,I was very passionate about it.
First, I just sat back andlistened to what everyone was
saying, what they were saying onFacebook and just everywhere,
(16:01):
and I'm very careful as to whatI listen to and what I don't,
and I'm also very careful withwho I listen to.
I think that's really importantas well.
But, and as I looked at and I'mgoing to say, you know, we've,
we've had friends of ours.
You know that, of course, we,we don't really see often
(16:23):
anymore at all.
We really honestly, we, wereally don't see him much at all
anymore.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
But does anybody see anybody much anymore?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Well, that's true, that's that's true, that's true.
But I I remember becomingreally passionate about it, and
I remember our our adultchildren did as well, because I
thought about our two sons, whohave both been stopped because
they were black, and so for me,I understand black lives matter.
We were stopped just not toolong ago.
(16:54):
About what?
A couple months ago, right, wewere stopped actually we weren't
stopped, remember.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
I pulled the vehicle over because I thought something
hit the truck.
I get out and I check it and um, and then, as I'm going back
into the car, I see these twopolice cars coming and they're
running their lights.
I'm like, oh, I'm wonderingwhat they're going for, and I
get in the truck and they pullin right behind me.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
And that's when they asked you know where are you
going, what are you doing?
Da-da-da-da.
So you know, this is my wife,this is my daughter going home.
Just came from across thebridge, okay, okay, and I drive
a huge Chevy Silverado, right,and they said they were looking
for and my truck is gray, yeah,and they were looking for a
(17:45):
white Chevy Equinox.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Exactly, and so how?
And we looked at them like,okay, so why are you yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
So let me see your license, your registration.
Why do you need to see mylicense registration?
I just got out to check mytruck, Right?
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, and the reason that you got out to check your
truck was because something cameflying out of the bushes and
hit the windshield, so westopped for safety reasons to
see what's going on.
But that's exactly what I'mtalking about.
I remember our son, our eldestson, john, went into a parking
lot to make a U-turn because hedidn't want to.
You know, he couldn't make aU-turn, so he drove into the
(18:22):
parking lot to turn out so hecould go the right way, and the
cop pulled up behind him andstopped him to question him why
did you turn around?
For no reason at all.
He wasn't speeding, it was notillegal, he was perfectly in his
rights.
And so, you know, someone coinedthe phrase driving while black
right, and so this is BlackLives Matter and so.
(18:43):
But here it's expanded now,even beyond that, to where, once
again, we have now politicizedit so much, to where it's
Christianity andnon-Christianity or Christianity
versus Christianity, and thisis not, honestly, this is not
how it should be.
Here we are, as faith-basedpeople, everyone.
(19:06):
If you've got the rabbi, you'vegot the priest and everyone
else, you know we're supposed tobe setting that example of love
, not of discrimination.
Yeah, this is the bottom line.
I think for me, when I thinkabout what people are saying
(19:29):
well, we don't want this, wedon't want that, we don't want
that.
But I want to keep in mind thatGod gives us choices.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
So if he's given me a choice, why aren't you giving
me a choice, right?
Why is it that I have tobelieve like you, act like you,
do like you?
And if I don't, then?
Speaker 3 (19:46):
You love me.
Yeah, exactly, or you?
Speaker 2 (19:47):
love me?
Yeah, exactly, or I'm on thewrong side of the coin.
I just remember a statementbeing done saying that if you
are not a Republican and you'renot this, then you're not a
Christian.
Well, how is that so?
Because it doesn't matterwhether I'm Republican, democrat
, independent, blue, green,yellow, it just really doesn't
(20:11):
matter.
What matters is my relationshipwith God and who I am, and
that's really between me and him, and not me and you, right.
What also matters is how I treatthese people, how I treat God's
children, all of us, that'severyone, that's not just them,
that's even the folks that let'ssay we don't even particularly
(20:32):
care for.
How we treat them is important.
Oh, yeah, for sure.
So then what do we do?
I mean talk to us.
You're the pastor.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Well, one of the things um, as uh, as Christians,
we have a responsibility topray for our uh, our leaders,
leaders in, in every position,from, from the uh, from the, uh,
the, the, the teachers at your,at your, at your child's um, um
, child development center, fromthe, you know, pray for the
(21:04):
teachers, pray for the owners,pray for the uh, the school
board, you know, the members ofthe school board, all of these
basically elected positions.
We definitely need to praybecause we, if you're not voting
, you should vote Right, Because, again, if you have the ability
(21:24):
to make a difference and ifthat one vote can make a
difference and you decide I'mnot going to do it, and whatever
happens, you're complicit inwhatever happens, because you
decided that you're not going tovote, because you think that
your vote doesn't matter, right,and and it actually does.
So the first thing is to prayfor our leaders.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
On a regular basis.
It becomes difficult when youunderstand that there's the
person in the office and there'sthe office, the office of
whatever it is right, and thenthere's the person.
So, if the if so, we, we honorthe office and it would be.
(22:06):
It would be beautiful if wecould honor the office and the
person right.
But oftentimes, in bothpolitical arenas, we end up
honoring the office ordishonoring the office right and
not the person.
So we remove the person, um,however they act or however you
(22:30):
know, especially if we havesomeone that we say is
representing us as um Christian,so to speak, or looking out for
the Christian uh, uh, interest,so to speak, Um, but if you're
looking out for the Christian,um, uh, interest, and you have
to understand this as aChristian, if you go back and
you look at the, you know,biblically, God wasn't trying to
(22:55):
rule Rome, yeah, Right, theRomans did, you know, kind of
did their thing, and the Hebrews, or you know, or the Jews had
their thing going.
So their religion, right, theywere good and they didn't spill
over into one another, right,and there you have the
separation of church and state,right.
(23:17):
So praying for our leaders andpraying for ourselves, direction
and what we should do, how weshould do it, what we should say
, how we should say it, how weshould treat other people right
and the people that we should beand should not be connected to.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah, you know I like that because I will tell you
which you know.
You already know how I feel.
This is something that we talkabout all the time and how we
feel, and sometimes we agree andsometimes we may not agree, but
I personally, I'm tired and Iget really embarrassed with how
sometimes I see Christiansbehaving.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
You know and the things that they say and what
they believe and how they'regoing to stand.
And here, what really bothersme is that here you are, you're
a Christian, you're standing up,people know you, you're this,
and then you're supportingsomeone that is lax moral,
(24:24):
uncivilized Fortitude, Fortitude.
Let's say, yeah, you know.
How is that possible?
How can I support and it's noteven repentant of their lack of
moral fortitude that, basically,how and no matter who it is how
(24:47):
can I support that and say it'sOK?
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
And I'm a Christian and then I expect other people
to look at me and follow me and,by the way, that I feel like,
if I can rebuke you, becauseguess what?
You obviously you're notunderstanding this whole
Christianity thing, because wedon't.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Yeah, and one thing I like that you always say that
we have to see above sea level,right?
And in other words, we have tosee above what we can normally
see.
And the only way that we can dothat is through our
relationship with God and andallowing him and allowing him to
, uh, to basically direct us in,um, in again, what we're going
(25:33):
to do, what we're going to say,all of these things and um, and
it it becomes, you know,nowadays it's okay, um, I don't
agree with that, right?
So, um, I don't agree with thatat all, right, there's so many
things that we could talk about.
Let's let's say abortion, right, nobody wants to see a baby.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Nobody does.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Killed or anything like that yeah.
Understand, right, but no onewants to see.
Well, I don't, um, but no onewants to see.
Well, I don't.
I don't want to see a 12 yearold that's been impregnated by
um, by a vicious crime.
Right Now.
You don't even have to name thecrime, Everybody knows what it
is.
Right, um, I don't want to seea 12 year old girl have to deal
(26:26):
with that mentally, physicallyand in every other way.
Right?
So am I against abortion?
I'm against abortion, yes.
Am I against a woman havingchoice?
No, I'm not against that at all.
A woman, a 12-year-old girl orwhatever the case, we have the
(26:47):
right to do with what we wantwith our bodies.
Girl, or whatever the case, wehave the right to do with what
we want with our bodies and umand um, you know, uh, god is not
a, he's not a a.
A tyrannical um, you know,figure that makes you do things
(27:08):
that will destroy you mentally,physically and emotionally.
He's not that God.
He's not that God, right, he'sthe God that loves you to
healing.
He's the God that directs youin the ways that you should go
that would make your lifeprosper.
He's that God.
He wants to see us do our best.
(27:28):
He wants to see us prosper inevery area of our life.
And if we take that away frompeople, if we try to take that
away, then we ourselves areputting ourselves in the stead
and in the place of God.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Yeah, that's good.
That's good.
Yeah, listen, I just believethat all lives matter.
Black lives matter, the Latinolives matter, women's lives
matter, children, all livesmatter.
Black lives matter, the life,latino lives matter, women's
lives matter, children are.
All lives matter.
But we do have to bring thefocus on what is actually going
on in our world today.
And as Christians, right, or,let me just put it this way, as
(28:03):
people of faith, right, we needto stand up and let our voice be
heard.
I've got good friends that areMuslim.
They are Catholic.
I've got a friend that she'sthat's Buddhist.
I've got you know, and I findthem to be people of strong
character and integrity.
(28:24):
And we may have a differentfaith and, by the way, even as
Christians, some of us havedifferent beliefs and faith.
But this is it that we need torespect each other and realize
that everyone is in choice.
And if we are faith-based,let's do what God would have us
to do and let's just love andlet's not try to put my belief
(28:47):
system, but let's actually lookand see what is right and what
is wrong.
And there's no way.
And I don't care what your raceis, I don't care what your
denomination is,non-denominational, whatever I
don't care what your religiousbackground is.
Right is right and wrong iswrong.
You cannot discriminate, youcannot treat women badly, you
(29:08):
cannot sexually assault them.
There's things these are justmore to me, these are just
morality things.
This isn't even like well, I'mnot sure.
No, it's right.
And so, therefore, if littleJoe, living the way God has
planned for us to live, we haveto embrace it.
(29:37):
And here's the other piecelet's stop judging.
I don't know, maybe it soundslike if I'm judging right now, I
don't know, talking aboutChristianity and the political
system.
Maybe that's what I sound likeright now.
I don't know, but this is it.
I just feel so passionate aboutthis because I'm so tired of
and I get embarrassed, and Iknow, not all Christians are
like that, but I don't see how,how a Christian can embrace some
(29:58):
things that we are and I say weinclude myself that we are
actually embracing, or people offaith, we're embracing things
that we have no businessembracing.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
So Jesus went against the grain, right?
So he's casting out thesedevils and these demons.
And they come and they tellJesus hey, you know, he's
casting out these demons in thename of Beelzebub, right?
Which is, you know that inessence it's Satan, right?
So he's doing that in that name.
(30:33):
And Jesus comes back and hesays a house divided against
itself can't stand.
So if I'm casting them out inthe name of Beelzebub, then
that's going to fall, right.
But again, you know, a houseagainst itself cannot stand,
cannot stand.
So if we're saying, um, that weare christians and we're always
(30:57):
at each other's throats andalways fighting and can't agree
with anything, right on anything, then, um, I don't believe that
god will allow christianity tofall.
But there's going to be a lotof churches that fall.
There's going to be a lot ofchurches that fall.
There's going to be a lot ofother ministries or whatnot that
fall.
There's going to be familiesthat fall because they can't
(31:20):
come together.
When we're divided, we lose ourstrength.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
You lose our strength .
Yeah, and, by the way, when youthink about America right now.
And by the way when you thinkabout America right now, america
is divided, so that applies toAmerica as well.
A house divided, you know, ahouse divided cannot stand.
America right now is verydivided.
We are politically divided,which has caused us to be
(31:44):
racially divided.
It's caused us to be in termsof religion divided, which, by
the way, anyway, religion andreligious that separates, that
doesn't bring together anyway.
But but we've got a lot ofdivisions going on.
So a house divided cannot stand.
Our struggle right now is thatwe're divided.
We're divided and we have tocome together.
(32:05):
And I just don't know reallyhow we're going to do it.
Until we get rid of some of ourbiases and some of our judgment
and say, ok, how can we cometogether as a people?
Speaker 3 (32:16):
How can we for the?
Speaker 2 (32:17):
greater person.
How can we coexist for thegreater purpose?
Our children are depending onus.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Our children are not only depending on us, but our
children are watching us.
Yes, they are.
They're watching us and it'sgoing to do and from them
watching us, it's going to doone of two things it's either
going to draw them to where weare or it's going to push them
away from us.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Right.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Yeah.
And if we're saying that we'redoing all of this, now listen.
If we're saying we're doing allof this in the name of God, in
the name of Christianity, andour children see it and know
from what we've taught them thatit's not really Christ-like
right, then it's going to pushthem away, it's going to drive
them away and they're going tosay they want no parts of that.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Yeah, yeah, we've had some powerful leaders, know,
powerful leaders in our time.
We've, you know.
I think about Dr Martin LutherKing, I think about Mahatma
Gandhi and a few other leadersthat have just been powerful in
leading the march against anylevel of discrimination.
Women are also included, as inthat, and I think that as a
(33:29):
community, as a culture, wereally do need to really search
ourselves and we do need to cometogether and stand everyone for
what is right.
We don't have to have the samebelief system to stand together
to do what is morally right.
(33:49):
We don't.
There's some things as plain asday y'all.
It doesn't take a rocketscientist Right that we could do
together to stop the madnessthat's happening right here in
our own country.
And so you know, as we end thissession, this powerful
(34:12):
discussion, I want you to havethe discussion in your homes.
What are you doing to bring theworld together?
What are you doing to affectchange, first in your home and
then in your community, then inyour city and then in the world?
What are you doing?
You could do one small thing todo that, because it is time for
us to come together and let'sstop the madness.
Let's stop the madness that'sgoing on in DC and wherever else
(34:33):
we are.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Wasn't that episode amazing Living unapologetically.
Faith unmuted has allowed usonce again to ask ourselves the
kind of questions that will helpus get to the next level and
live this life unapologetically.
Your next step head on over towwwesthergramcom and let me know
(34:57):
what your favorite episode isAsk a question or share this
with a friend.
I can't wait to be with younext week as we dive deeper into
redefining what it means to bea Christian woman and redefining
what it means to live in ourtruth.
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