Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
When we are believers , when we are Christians, we
don't just stand still.
Nothing stands still as growth,whether it be a kitten or a
human being.
So it is in the realm of theSpirit we come from babes on to
mature.
Hebrews, chapter 5.
(00:30):
This is a word to us asbelievers.
We have much to say and it'shard to explain, since you have
become dull of hearing.
The author is saying that I'vegot a lot more to say about
(00:51):
Jesus than what you've heard.
I'd like to be able to explainit to you, but it's difficult to
explain.
If you are not mature or if youdon't know the word, it's very
difficult.
Or if you don't know the word,it's very difficult.
So that tells me when I read apassage like this in Hebrews 5,
11,.
(01:11):
But they wouldn't listen to it,and the reason they wouldn't
listen to it is because theydidn't have an ear for it.
They had no understanding.
It was difficult to explainbecause nobody wants to listen.
Now we can put that in any formthat we want.
(01:32):
It's the same when we seesomebody that we say to
ourselves you know what theyneed.
They need Jesus in their life,they need to be born again, they
need to be saved.
They need to ask Jesus toforgive them of their sins.
And you try to talk to them andthey go say, no, not for me, I
don't want to listen to that,let me get out of here.
(01:53):
No.
And we're thinking how can wetell people about Jesus?
They don't want to listen, theydon't have ears for that.
But Christians should be hungryfor maturity.
Christians should be hungry anddesiring to grow in the things
of God and to mature.
And as we grow and as we mature, I have to tell you, with that
(02:19):
comes responsibilities.
So I'm going to go to verse 12of Hebrews 5.
Disabilities so I'm going to goto verse 12 of Hebrews 5.
For, though by this time youought to be teachers, you have
need again for someone to teachyou the elementary principles of
(02:40):
the oracles of God, and youhave come to need milk and not
solid food.
Let's talk about the milk, foreveryone who partakes only of
milk is not accustomed to theword of righteousness, but he is
an infant.
Those are strong words, and wewere to say to someone who has
(03:06):
served the Lord for 50 years andthey've never got beyond
salvation messages when theythemselves received, and for 50
years they've never been able togo beyond that, because that's
all they want to hear.
They met the Lord.
It was wonderful and theyparted there.
(03:29):
But the writer is saying youhave need of solid food.
And if we're not mature and ifwe're not on a solid footing,
and if we're not eating solidfood and the word of the Lord,
we are going to be shaken.
And when we get shaken, who arewe going to be able to talk to?
Because believers have to havea desire to grow, just like you
(03:56):
have to have a desire to besaved.
You have to have a desire to befilled with the Spirit.
The list goes on to receive somany of God's benefits and if we
don't have that desire and welike it where we are, it's very
difficult to help.
He talks about solid food, he'stalking about meat, and I
(04:18):
believe that these areas are inthe revelatory realm.
I believe that these things areas we grow and mature.
It's like the Lord will openanother page.
He'll move the curtain back,the cloud will lift and we'll be
able to see Solid food.
(04:39):
It's not for the infant, it'sfor the mature.
Now that should shake us rightto our roots.
We have Christian friends.
We know people who have nodesire to move forward in God
and the reason is they areunable to eat solid food because
(05:04):
they are not mature.
They're not moving forward.
How do you get mature?
You keep eating, you keepexpanding, you keep pushing in
to what God is dealing in yourlife.
You have to keep pressing inand as you keep pressing in,
(05:25):
you're going to start to eatwhat's around you and as you eat
it you get strong in that andyou mature in that.
But you have to have a desirefor these things.
But solid food is for themature who, because of practice,
have their senses trained todiscern good and evil.
(05:48):
They are continually pressingin, they are maturing, they're
beginning to see things.
They learned new things as yougrow and as you mature, you
learn.
But if we're dull of hearingmeaning if we don't want to hear
what God's got to offer theproblem with that is we remain
(06:11):
an infant our entire Christianlife.
So we need to know that.
Does the Bible speak about this?
Does it address this?
Does it tell us what to do?
Yes, about this?
Does it address this?
Does it tell us what to do?
Yes, when we go on into thesixth chapter of Hebrews,
beginning at the first verse weare told how we deal with this
(06:33):
sort of thing.
Therefore, leaving theelementary teaching about Christ
, let us press on to maturity.
So, if we go back up intoHebrews, chapter 5, verse 14,
(06:55):
solid food is for the mature.
And here it says therefore,leaving the elementary teaching
about the Christ, let us presson to maturity.
And he says this is how you'regoing to do it Not laying again
(07:16):
a foundation of repentance fromdead works and a faith toward
God.
You already know the gospelmessage.
I'm talking about your personalgrowth.
I'm not talking about yourevangelism.
I'm not talking about yourevangelism.
I'm not talking about somebodythat you're going to witness to.
I'm talking about yourspiritual growth.
(07:39):
So of instruction, aboutwashings, laying on of hands,
resurrection of the dead,eternal judgment, and this we
will do if God permits, and ifGod speaks to the dead, eternal
judgment, and this we will do ifGod permits, and if God speaks
to the minister or speaks to you, that you are to go over this
(08:00):
again for some reason, ordepending on the group of people
that I'm talking to, I have to.
As a minister, I have todiscern who is in the house,
who's sitting before me.
I have to, as a minister.
I have to discern who is in thehouse, who's sitting before me.
I have to discern that and Ihave a responsibility.
Am I going to talk to them asinfants or am I going to talk to
(08:23):
them as mature?
There's nothing wrong withbeing an infant when you've just
come into the kingdom.
We all go through this process.
We're all infants.
We have to learn these things.
We need to know aboutelementary teaching.
God brings the warning in hereIn the case of those who have
(08:47):
once been enlightened and havetasted the heavenly gift and
have been made partakers of theHoly Spirit and have tasted the
good word of God and the powerof the age to come and then have
fallen away, it is impossibleto renew them again to
repentance, since they againcrucify to themselves the Son of
(09:09):
God and put him to open shame.
This is quite a warning andthat's what this chapter is
talking about the danger or thepairing of those who draw back.
I believe that one of the signsthat should be very concerning
to any believer is when webecome dull of hearing, spoken
(09:37):
of in Hebrews 5.11,.
Since you have become dull ofhearing, and that's why this
writer was addressing, I wouldthink that once a person
develops or sees that they're nolonger interested in
progressing in God, they're nolonger hungry or the hunger is
(09:58):
leaving them.
And hear this if we findourselves not hungry for the
Word of God, we are in greatdanger.
God, we are in great danger.
And the problem is, if we fallaway, it's this thing of being
able to come back to the Lord.
It's impossible to renew themagain to repentance, since they
(10:22):
crucify to themselves the Son ofGod and put him to open.
Shame for the ground thatdrinks the rain which often
falls on it and brings forthvegetation and useful to those
for whose sake it is tilled,receive a blessing from God.
But it's implying.
But if that ground, if youdon't till it, if you don't
(10:46):
water it, if you don't keep theweeds out, if you let it be
overgrowing, what happens is ityields thorns and thistles and
it's worthless.
So what the writer is saying ina nice way be careful you don't
become worthless and close tobeing cursed and it ends up
(11:14):
being burned.
Beloved, we are convinced ofbetter things concerning you,
things that accompany salvation.
Though we are speaking in thisway, even though I've addressed
it this way, even though I'vewarned, even though I'm telling
you I'm expecting better thingsthan this.
Here's the hope.
(11:37):
God is not unjust so as toforget your worth and the love
which you have shown toward hisname.
And having ministered, and instill ministering, to the saints
, we desire that each one of youshow the same deluge so as to
realize the full assurance ofthe hope until the end, so that
(11:57):
you will not be fluggish butimitators of those who, through
faith and patience, inherit thepromises.
Don't let it go to that point.
Be very careful.
Hebrews, chapter 6, and I wantus to look at verse 4.
Once been enlightened and havetasted of the heavenly gift,
(12:23):
that salvation, I categorizethis as the 30-fold realm.
Born again, you're a babe inChrist and we thank God for
those.
And we thank God that we willcontinue to bring people into
the kingdom and we will try toreach out and we will try to
(12:45):
bring them on up into deeperthings of God.
And when it says you havetasted of the heavenly gift and
have been made partakers of theHoly Spirit, I see this as
60-fold.
And then verse 5, you've tastedthe good word of God and the
(13:07):
powers of the age to come.
I look at this as maturity, Ilook at this as a mature son.
I look at this as there'spowers that I'm going to be able
to tap into as a mature son,that I can't tap into as an
(13:28):
infant.
There's something waiting forus and we're moving forward and
we're not going to allow theenemy to rob us in any way.
In 2nd Timothy, chapter 1,verses 13 and 14, hold fast the
(13:49):
form of sound words which thouhast heard of me, in faith and
love which is in Christ Jesus.
Hold those.
You don't give that up.
You don't turn your back andsay he's salvation.
I've moved on from there.
No, you bring salvation withyou, that good thing which was
(14:09):
committed unto thee.
Keep by the Holy Ghost whichdwelleth in us.
You keep developing, you keepmoving forward.
When the veil is rent in thetemple, jesus will bring us, and
that veil is rent in the temple.
Jesus was on the cross and thatveil was rent in tune.
(14:30):
We were permitted to enter into another world.
Sometimes people say that'sgoing to be only reserved for us
when we get to heaven, to beonly reserved for us.
When we get to heaven, thatveil is rent and I believe that
(14:51):
we can walk through it.
Right now you get people whoaren't saved.
You get them into church andthe altar call is given.
I've seen this many times.
As soon as they start askinganybody what's come to Jesus, I
see them get up and they rushright out the door.
They come in on faith, they goout on faith.
They don't want to hear it.
They're dull of hearing andwe're thinking oh, someday, oh
(15:16):
Lord, someday, bring them in.
We'll start praying for themand we believe that God will
answer prayer.
But isn't it sin?
They choose not to listen.
Don't be like that.
Don't be like that.
When God begins to send, he'llshow you things in Scripture and
you will pay another price ifyou move from 60 to 100 fold, if
(15:41):
you start moving up intomaturity and in sonship.
But the problem is, everybodythinks they're mature, no matter
where they're at.
They're 22 years of age andthey're mature and they believe
in salvation and they'veaccepted Jesus and they say I'm
mature.
But the fact is, you're amature individual, but you're
obeyed spiritually.
(16:02):
You're an infant.
You come into adolescence whenyou're walking in the things of
the Spirit.
Jesus opened up a new and livingway to us Hebrews 10, 20.
By a new and living way, whichhe hath consecrated for us
(16:25):
through the veil.
That is to say, I've got thenew way, I'm a new man in Christ
.
What about the way?
Well, people are very quick totalk about the new man, the new
creature.
What about the way the W-A-Y,what about the way?
(16:47):
There's a way.
What about the way Jesus is thenew and living way?
In the Old Testament we readabout when the temple was
dedicated.
Solomon dedicated the temple.
Something came down there likea cloud, just came.
(17:09):
It just started to form rightinside the temple and it was the
glory of God being manifestedand they called it the Shekinah
glory.
The Shekinah S-H-E-K-I-N-A-H.
It means that which dwells Withthe veil being split.
(17:31):
Does it mean that we could livein the Shekinah?
That is what should be a hungerthat we have Shekinah on ending
is all I long for.
The priests couldn't stand tominister because of the cloud,
and the glory filled the houseof the Lord.
(17:53):
I believe there's a peoplethat's going to be able to stand
and minister in the glory.
I believe we have to.
I believe that whenever theglory of God falls upon us, I
don't believe that we should beshirking back.
We should be embracing it, andI want us to do that we're going
to embrace the glory.
We're going to search this out,we're going to ascend.
(18:13):
This is a great day which we'realive you.
When we are believers , when we are Christians, we
don't just stand still.
Nothing stands still as growth,whether it be a kitten or a
human being.
So it is in the realm of theSpirit we come from babes on to
mature.
Hebrews, chapter 5.
(00:30):
This is a word to us asbelievers.
We have much to say and it'shard to explain, since you have
become dull of hearing.
The author is saying that I'vegot a lot more to say about
(00:51):
Jesus than what you've heard.
I'd like to be able to explainit to you, but it's difficult to
explain.
If you are not mature or if youdon't know the word, it's very
difficult.
Or if you don't know the word,it's very difficult.
So that tells me when I read apassage like this in Hebrews 5,
11,.
(01:11):
But they wouldn't listen to it,and the reason they wouldn't
listen to it is because theydidn't have an ear for it.
They had no understanding.
It was difficult to explainbecause nobody wants to listen.
Now we can put that in any formthat we want.
(01:32):
It's the same when we seesomebody that we say to
ourselves you know what theyneed.
They need Jesus in their life,they need to be born again, they
need to be saved.
They need to ask Jesus toforgive them of their sins.
And you try to talk to them andthey go say, no, not for me, I
don't want to listen to that,let me get out of here.
(01:53):
No.
And we're thinking how can wetell people about Jesus?
They don't want to listen, theydon't have ears for that.
But Christians should be hungryfor maturity.
Christians should be hungry anddesiring to grow in the things
of God and to mature.
And as we grow and as we mature, I have to tell you, with that
(02:19):
comes responsibilities.
So I'm going to go to verse 12of Hebrews 5.
Disabilities so I'm going to goto verse 12 of Hebrews 5.
For, though by this time youought to be teachers, you have
need again for someone to teachyou the elementary principles of
(02:40):
the oracles of God, and youhave come to need milk and not
solid food.
Let's talk about the milk, foreveryone who partakes only of
milk is not accustomed to theword of righteousness, but he is
an infant.
Those are strong words, and wewere to say to someone who has
(03:06):
served the Lord for 50 years andthey've never got beyond
salvation messages when theythemselves received, and for 50
years they've never been able togo beyond that, because that's
all they want to hear.
They met the Lord.
It was wonderful and theyparted there.
(03:29):
But the writer is saying youhave need of solid food.
And if we're not mature and ifwe're not on a solid footing,
and if we're not eating solidfood and the word of the Lord,
we are going to be shaken.
And when we get shaken, who arewe going to be able to talk to?
Because believers have to havea desire to grow, just like you
(03:56):
have to have a desire to besaved.
You have to have a desire to befilled with the Spirit.
The list goes on to receive somany of God's benefits and if we
don't have that desire and welike it where we are, it's very
difficult to help.
He talks about solid food, he'stalking about meat, and I
(04:18):
believe that these areas are inthe revelatory realm.
I believe that these things areas we grow and mature.
It's like the Lord will openanother page.
He'll move the curtain back,the cloud will lift and we'll be
able to see Solid food.
(04:39):
It's not for the infant, it'sfor the mature.
Now that should shake us rightto our roots.
We have Christian friends.
We know people who have nodesire to move forward in God
and the reason is they areunable to eat solid food because
(05:04):
they are not mature.
They're not moving forward.
How do you get mature?
You keep eating, you keepexpanding, you keep pushing in
to what God is dealing in yourlife.
You have to keep pressing inand as you keep pressing in,
(05:25):
you're going to start to eatwhat's around you and as you eat
it you get strong in that andyou mature in that.
But you have to have a desirefor these things.
But solid food is for themature who, because of practice,
have their senses trained todiscern good and evil.
(05:48):
They are continually pressingin, they are maturing, they're
beginning to see things.
They learned new things as yougrow and as you mature, you
learn.
But if we're dull of hearingmeaning if we don't want to hear
what God's got to offer theproblem with that is we remain
(06:11):
an infant our entire Christianlife.
So we need to know that.
Does the Bible speak about this?
Does it address this?
Does it tell us what to do?
Yes, about this?
Does it address this?
Does it tell us what to do?
Yes, when we go on into thesixth chapter of Hebrews,
beginning at the first verse weare told how we deal with this
(06:33):
sort of thing.
Therefore, leaving theelementary teaching about Christ
, let us press on to maturity.
So, if we go back up intoHebrews, chapter 5, verse 14,
(06:55):
solid food is for the mature.
And here it says therefore,leaving the elementary teaching
about the Christ, let us presson to maturity.
And he says this is how you'regoing to do it Not laying again
(07:16):
a foundation of repentance fromdead works and a faith toward
God.
You already know the gospelmessage.
I'm talking about your personalgrowth.
I'm not talking about yourevangelism.
I'm not talking about yourevangelism.
I'm not talking about somebodythat you're going to witness to.
I'm talking about yourspiritual growth.
(07:39):
So of instruction, aboutwashings, laying on of hands,
resurrection of the dead,eternal judgment, and this we
will do if God permits, and ifGod speaks to the dead, eternal
judgment, and this we will do ifGod permits, and if God speaks
to the minister or speaks to you, that you are to go over this
(08:00):
again for some reason, ordepending on the group of people
that I'm talking to, I have to.
As a minister, I have todiscern who is in the house,
who's sitting before me.
I have to, as a minister.
I have to discern who is in thehouse, who's sitting before me.
I have to discern that and Ihave a responsibility.
Am I going to talk to them asinfants or am I going to talk to
(08:23):
them as mature?
There's nothing wrong withbeing an infant when you've just
come into the kingdom.
We all go through this process.
We're all infants.
We have to learn these things.
We need to know aboutelementary teaching.
God brings the warning in hereIn the case of those who have
(08:47):
once been enlightened and havetasted the heavenly gift and
have been made partakers of theHoly Spirit and have tasted the
good word of God and the powerof the age to come and then have
fallen away, it is impossibleto renew them again to
repentance, since they againcrucify to themselves the Son of
(09:09):
God and put him to open shame.
This is quite a warning andthat's what this chapter is
talking about the danger or thepairing of those who draw back.
I believe that one of the signsthat should be very concerning
to any believer is when webecome dull of hearing, spoken
(09:37):
of in Hebrews 5.11,.
Since you have become dull ofhearing, and that's why this
writer was addressing, I wouldthink that once a person
develops or sees that they're nolonger interested in
progressing in God, they're nolonger hungry or the hunger is
(09:58):
leaving them.
And hear this if we findourselves not hungry for the
Word of God, we are in greatdanger.
God, we are in great danger.
And the problem is, if we fallaway, it's this thing of being
able to come back to the Lord.
It's impossible to renew themagain to repentance, since they
(10:22):
crucify to themselves the Son ofGod and put him to open.
Shame for the ground thatdrinks the rain which often
falls on it and brings forthvegetation and useful to those
for whose sake it is tilled,receive a blessing from God.
But it's implying.
But if that ground, if youdon't till it, if you don't
(10:46):
water it, if you don't keep theweeds out, if you let it be
overgrowing, what happens is ityields thorns and thistles and
it's worthless.
So what the writer is saying ina nice way be careful you don't
become worthless and close tobeing cursed and it ends up
(11:14):
being burned.
Beloved, we are convinced ofbetter things concerning you,
things that accompany salvation.
Though we are speaking in thisway, even though I've addressed
it this way, even though I'vewarned, even though I'm telling
you I'm expecting better thingsthan this.
Here's the hope.
(11:37):
God is not unjust so as toforget your worth and the love
which you have shown toward hisname.
And having ministered, and instill ministering, to the saints
, we desire that each one of youshow the same deluge so as to
realize the full assurance ofthe hope until the end, so that
(11:57):
you will not be fluggish butimitators of those who, through
faith and patience, inherit thepromises.
Don't let it go to that point.
Be very careful.
Hebrews, chapter 6, and I wantus to look at verse 4.
Once been enlightened and havetasted of the heavenly gift,
(12:23):
that salvation, I categorizethis as the 30-fold realm.
Born again, you're a babe inChrist and we thank God for
those.
And we thank God that we willcontinue to bring people into
the kingdom and we will try toreach out and we will try to
(12:45):
bring them on up into deeperthings of God.
And when it says you havetasted of the heavenly gift and
have been made partakers of theHoly Spirit, I see this as
60-fold.
And then verse 5, you've tastedthe good word of God and the
(13:07):
powers of the age to come.
I look at this as maturity, Ilook at this as a mature son.
I look at this as there'spowers that I'm going to be able
to tap into as a mature son,that I can't tap into as an
(13:28):
infant.
There's something waiting forus and we're moving forward and
we're not going to allow theenemy to rob us in any way.
In 2nd Timothy, chapter 1,verses 13 and 14, hold fast the
(13:49):
form of sound words which thouhast heard of me, in faith and
love which is in Christ Jesus.
Hold those.
You don't give that up.
You don't turn your back andsay he's salvation.
I've moved on from there.
No, you bring salvation withyou, that good thing which was
(14:09):
committed unto thee.
Keep by the Holy Ghost whichdwelleth in us.
You keep developing, you keepmoving forward.
When the veil is rent in thetemple, jesus will bring us, and
that veil is rent in the temple.
Jesus was on the cross and thatveil was rent in tune.
(14:30):
We were permitted to enter into another world.
Sometimes people say that'sgoing to be only reserved for us
when we get to heaven, to beonly reserved for us.
When we get to heaven, thatveil is rent and I believe that
(14:51):
we can walk through it.
Right now you get people whoaren't saved.
You get them into church andthe altar call is given.
I've seen this many times.
As soon as they start askinganybody what's come to Jesus, I
see them get up and they rushright out the door.
They come in on faith, they goout on faith.
They don't want to hear it.
They're dull of hearing andwe're thinking oh, someday, oh
(15:16):
Lord, someday, bring them in.
We'll start praying for themand we believe that God will
answer prayer.
But isn't it sin?
They choose not to listen.
Don't be like that.
Don't be like that.
When God begins to send, he'llshow you things in Scripture and
you will pay another price ifyou move from 60 to 100 fold, if
(15:41):
you start moving up intomaturity and in sonship.
But the problem is, everybodythinks they're mature, no matter
where they're at.
They're 22 years of age andthey're mature and they believe
in salvation and they'veaccepted Jesus and they say I'm
mature.
But the fact is, you're amature individual, but you're
obeyed spiritually.
(16:02):
You're an infant.
You come into adolescence whenyou're walking in the things of
the Spirit.
Jesus opened up a new and livingway to us Hebrews 10, 20.
By a new and living way, whichhe hath consecrated for us
(16:25):
through the veil.
That is to say, I've got thenew way, I'm a new man in Christ
.
What about the way?
Well, people are very quick totalk about the new man, the new
creature.
What about the way the W-A-Y,what about the way?
(16:47):
There's a way.
What about the way Jesus is thenew and living way?
In the Old Testament we readabout when the temple was
dedicated.
Solomon dedicated the temple.
Something came down there likea cloud, just came.
(17:09):
It just started to form rightinside the temple and it was the
glory of God being manifestedand they called it the Shekinah
glory.
The Shekinah S-H-E-K-I-N-A-H.
It means that which dwells Withthe veil being split.
(17:31):
Does it mean that we could livein the Shekinah?
That is what should be a hungerthat we have Shekinah on ending
is all I long for.
The priests couldn't stand tominister because of the cloud,
and the glory filled the houseof the Lord.
(17:53):
I believe there's a peoplethat's going to be able to stand
and minister in the glory.
I believe we have to.
I believe that whenever theglory of God falls upon us, I
don't believe that we should beshirking back.
We should be embracing it, andI want us to do that we're going
to embrace the glory.
We're going to search this out,we're going to ascend.
(18:13):
This is a great day which we'realive you.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.