October 22, 2025 • 34 mins
Walls don’t appear overnight—they’re built brick by brick through unmet expectations, unspoken disappointments, gossip, and pride. In this honest, hope-filled conversation, Allen & Stacy Jo walk through a Biblical roadmap for reconciliation: forgive first, create safe spaces for real dialogue, and choose humility over “being right.” Whether you’re navigating tension in marriage, friendship, church, or your team at work, this episode will help you trade isolation for freedom, unity, and peace.
What We Cover:
- Jesus, our ultimate Reconciler (2 Corinthians 5)
- How the cross tore down the dividing wall (Ephesians 2)
- The “sugar in the gas tank” effect of resentment
- How to create non-retaliatory listening cultures in leadership
- Boundaries vs. walls—and why forgiveness isn’t permission, it’s freedom
Scripture References:
2 Corinthians 5:18–21; Ephesians 2:14–16; James 1:19; Colossians 3:13; Philippians 2:3
Try This This Week (Action Step):
Name one wall in your life. Take the first step—offer forgiveness, start the conversation, and ask the Holy Spirit for humility and healing.
Share the Episode:
If this helped you, follow/subscribe in your podcast app and leave a 5-star rating & review—it helps more people find the show. Send this to a friend who’s ready to trade walls for bridges of grace.
Keywords (SEO): reconciliation, Christian forgiveness, breaking down walls, healing relationships, marriage communication, church unity, leadership humility, Ephesians 2, 2 Corinthians 5, James 1:19, Colossians 3:13
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Are you ready to build a life,business and legacy that truly
lasts?
Welcome to Faithfully Investedwith Allen and Stacy Jo Thorne,
where Faith meets real talk.
Biblical wisdom meets everydaylife and leadership meets
laughter.
Together we will uncover God'sblueprint for leadership,
marriage, and mission, helpingfaith-driven leaders invest in
(00:21):
what matters most.
Each episode, we explorebiblical wisdom, have real
conversations, and of course,have some fun along the way
because let's be real.
Walking in faith is anadventure.
It sure is.
So pull up a seat, grab yourcoffee or your sweet tea, and
join us as we steward ourcallings with intention, because
(00:42):
when we invest in his kingdom,he brings the increase.
Hey friends.
Welcome back to FaithfullyInvested, where we uncover God's
blueprint for leadership,marriage, and mission.
I'm Allen.
And I'm Stacy Jo, and we areglad you've joined us today.
(01:06):
So Allen, before we get started,I would like to know what is the
first thing that comes to mindwhen I mention the word
reconciliation?
Um.
That's a great question.
Thank you.
Uh, great question, but reallywithout hesitation, I, I go
straight to Jesus.
Uh, I like what Pastor Todd saysis he's always the right answer,
(01:29):
right?
But Jesus is always the answer.
So, uh, because the word saysin, in second Corinthians that,
uh, per God's plan, that onlyJesus reconciles us before the
Father.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
We've been created by thefather.
(01:49):
Uh, we, we fell into this world.
We, we were brought into thisworld.
We didn't fall into this world.
We were brought into this.
Did a stark delivery.
You, uh, no, that, where didthat come from?
I, I don't even wanna know.
Uh, thank you for.
But, um, so we, we came intothis world, uh, entered into sin
(02:10):
and, and, uh, Jesus brought usback.
He reconciled us to our creator.
He reconciled us, uh, before theFather, and he has given us the
ministry of reconciliation.
The word says that Jesus, but,uh, uh, our decision for Christ,
uh, makes us righteous.
(02:30):
Before the father.
It's his righteousness.
Not, uh, not ours, but he's theonly, yes.
So there it is.
Okay.
So explain, reconcile.
What does Paul mean by sayingthe ministry of Reconciliation?
Yeah, that's a also, thanks forthat, uh, requesting that
(02:51):
clarification'cause some peopledon't know.
And, and we're here to, uh.
We're here to clarify stuff likethat, to reconcile, uh, and the
truest sense of the word meansto, to make friendly.
Again, or to return to harmony.
I love harmonies.
You're very good at harmonies.
Those of you that don't know.
No, no.
My lovely Stacy, Jo.
(03:13):
Oh, stop.
Amazing singer.
That wasn't why I said that, butWell, I'm just saying, you know,
and you can see, you know, I dolike harmony.
She's very good.
Very good.
Anyway, uh, back toreconciliation.
I think our greatest value is,uh, is how God in Christ
(03:33):
presents all people.
Every one of us have anopportunity to be reconciled
before the Father.
He in, in Jesus Christ.
God gives us an opportunity,everybody an opportunity.
He gives us an option to comeback.
And as we do, he counts ourtrespasses against us no more.
He tore down the wall oftrespasses that stood between us
(03:58):
and him, and he brought us backinto right relation with himself
through the blood of JesusChrist.
Yes, there it is.
And that's exactly what we'retalking about today, tearing
down walls and reconcilingrelationships.
And believe it or not, this isactually one of.
Our favorite topics because itinvolves forgiveness.
(04:18):
Forgiveness, yeah.
We love the topic offorgiveness.
Yeah.
Forgiveness is because we knowAwesome.
We know that what happens whenyou don't forgive or you don't
feel like you can forgive.
Right.
We need to do, we need to do afull episode.
I was thinking about that.
Yeah.
Uh, just on forgiveness.
Yeah.
(04:38):
You know, for sure.
We could actually do a series onthat, but.
Maybe we will.
Do you guys want to hear that?
Would you like your, would youlike faithfully invested to, to
bust out some, some forgivenessepisodes?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let us know.
Let us know what you think.
Let us know.
Send us a, send us a message.
Drop a comment in the, uh,YouTube video here and, uh, and
(05:02):
let us know.
Yeah.
Right on.
Yeah.
Anyhow, moving on.
You know, I, you know, I thinkwe can all agree that
relationships, whether it'smarriage, family.
Church.
Um, they can be challenging attimes.
Do you think we've had some chachallenging times in our
marriage there, babe?
(05:22):
I think in any relationship, um,whether it be our relationship
with the Lord mm-hmm.
Uh, or a relationship withourselves or relationship with
others, I think it's, it'sdefinitely challenging,
especially if we decide to goit, uh.
Go it on our own.
Right.
You know, I think, I think itcan be definitely be
challenging.
Yes.
Yeah.
I mean, little things can creepin, you know, those small
(05:44):
offenses or unspokendisappointments or How about
unmet expectations?
Whoa, Uhhuh?
Yeah.
Unmet expectations is huge.
Huge.
And if we're not careful, thoselittle bricks just start
stacking up and before we evenrealize it, we've built a wall.
Between us and the very peoplethat God has called us to love,
(06:06):
whether that be our spouse orour children or our neighbors,
or whoever.
Right?
Well, God's word, uh, the truth,uh, says to us Paul.
Paul writes in and.
His epistle to the Church ofEphesus in Ephesians chapter
two, uh, verses 14 through 16,uh, when he addresses the
(06:29):
Gentiles,'cause that's what Pauldoes.
Paul was God's instrument, uh,for the Gentiles, uh, who are,
who are non-Jewish people.
Uh, and Paul went to them and hesaid that Christ himself is our
peace.
Uh, by the blood of Jesus, hetears down the dividing wall of
hostility.
(06:50):
Uh, just as Jesus tore down thewall between God and humanity,
then surely as we decide forJesus as we make a decision for
Christ, he gives us the power totear down the wall between us
and others.
Yes.
That's so good.
Yeah.
And, and the challenge, I mean,the challenge for me is I know
(07:13):
what it feels like to wanna keepmy walls up.
Those walls have felt safe forme in the past.
It's, I've found it easy toconvince myself that if I stay
behind those walls, then I won'tget hurt again.
Mm.
Um, but I've also learned thehard way that those same walls
that make me feel protectedactually keep out the healing
(07:34):
too.
Yeah.
And instead of keeping me safe,they actually trapped me.
And they leave me Isolated.
Yeah.
Isolated.
And I find myself replaying thehurt and missing the opportunity
that God had to restore what'sbroken within me.
Yeah.
And I, we could do, you know, wecould talk so much on that and
(07:55):
at some point we probably will,but every time I've chosen to
cling to a wall, it hasn'tbrought me peace at all.
No, not at all.
It's only kept me from thereconciliation that, that he had
for me, but.
Yeah.
Every time I've surrendered andallowed God's love to flow
through me, well, he's beenfaithful to break down those
(08:17):
walls, and that's actually whathe calls us to.
He calls us to not build afortress, but to be ministers of
reconciliation.
Absolutely.
Which in turn lets his love healand unite us, right?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
He like, he, he is.
I mean, he's the master.
(08:38):
He's, he's the creator.
He's, he's the master of tearingdown the wall so he can solidify
the foundation, who is JesusChrist.
Yeah.
And so he's gotta deconstruct sohe can solidify the foundation,
so we can reconstruct our livesin Christ with, with him as the
foundation.
And I, and I think, you know,back going, thinking back to
(09:02):
what I've read about whenChrist.
Died on the cross and thecurtain split.
Right.
You know, that curtain was morelike a wall.
It was so thick.
Right.
It wasn't a curtain like we seetoday, the veil hanging on our
walls.
Ve Right.
The veil.
Yeah.
Or hanging on our windows.
But it was thick and it wasalmost like a wall.
(09:22):
Right.
And, and so when that cracked,you know, when you were talking
about.
Back in the beginning of when wewere just talking here, you were
talking about how it's separatedor it, it brought unity instead
of dividing.
Mm-hmm.
Him and humanity.
Right.
God and humanity.
Right.
I, uh, I like what, uh, andPastor Todd, uh, we seem to be
(09:45):
mentioning Pastor Todd Mago.
He's extremely influential.
Mm-hmm.
And what a, what a uh, uh, hisexposition of the word is.
Yeah.
Second to none, quite honestly.
Uh, but I like what he saidabout this at some point, and
it's really stuck with me, is,well, the common, uh,
misconception is that when theveil was torn, it gave us access
(10:09):
in, but, but what I believe whatTodd said here was that it, it
gave, it let the spirit out.
Yes.
Yes.
It let the spirit out and, uh,and.
Yeah.
So that's, it's cool.
So, and the division was goneand the division Yeah.
Between, uh, between us and thecreator was, uh mm-hmm.
(10:30):
The wall.
The, the wall was, the veil wastorn.
The wall came down.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, uh, yeah.
So, mm-hmm.
Thanks Pastor Todd.
We love you.
Yeah.
Um, so how does thisreconciliation play out in
marriage?
Maybe, maybe one spouse?
Uh.
Uh, maybe one spouse sayssomething careless.
(10:50):
Uh, that may or may not havebeen me on time or me
previously.
We've both, we've both donethat.
And you'll see if you're just,if you're new here, you'll see
that Stacy and I never claimperfection.
Oh.
Uh,'cause there's only oneperfect one and it's certainly
not Allen or Stacy.
Right.
Uh, and, uh, we are, we aregrateful for our, not
(11:11):
perfection, but progression,right?
Yeah.
Through our, through our walk.
Yeah.
With him.
So, so maybe we say somethingcareless and instead of
addressing that.
Uh, addressing it in the momentinstead of, you know, like, like
adults do.
We'll, uh, we'll put a, put ablock on the wall.
Yeah.
Then another comment, anotherblock, and before long you
(11:32):
gotta, you're very on borderwall running through the living
room.
Right.
Not cool.
I just, as you're talking aboutthat, I'm just seeing you
placing a block and then meplacing a block and you placing
a block and me placing a blockblock and we're building one
wall, but I'm pretty soon us,they can't even smell the
kitchen.
They can't even smell the dinnerin the kitchen.
(11:52):
Yeah.
Stupid wall.
But, you know.
Anyway, I'll, I'll be honest,there have been times, there
have been times in our, in ourmarriage where I've.
I've felt those walls andstacking up.
Right.
And like you said, maybe yousaid something in the moment
that stung and instead oftalking about it right away, I
just let it sit.
(12:12):
Or like I just said, I saidsomething back and continued to
help you build the wall.
Right.
And we did it.
We did it together, babe.
Yay.
But you know, before, before Iknow it, I'm building that
little wall in my heart and, andI'm not.
Saying that this just happens inmarriage.
(12:32):
Um, it happens in church lifetoo.
It happens in work, you know,wherever.
But sometimes it can be as smallas, as a misunderstanding, like,
well, she didn't invite me or heoverlooked me, and I've been
there.
Um.
100% I've been there.
Right.
And gossip can create a walltoo.
(12:53):
Sure.
That's why, you know, the, andthe, the, we don't, we don't do
gossip here.
We don't like gossip.
The, the lord doesn't likegossiping.
Right.
You get, you get into the Hesaid, she said, yeah, bunk.
And you know, then someone'soffended when, when over
something that.
May have been misconstrued, mayor may not have.
Yeah.
Through the grapevine at somepoint, and it maybe never was
(13:14):
said.
So Yeah.
Then, then you know, someone'soffended for no reason and that,
and it can happen like that,right?
And those little moments canfeel so big if we let them.
But when we, when I stop and Ilook back on those times, I
realize that most of the time itwasn't even intentional.
Right?
And here I was carrying anoffense that I was never meant
(13:35):
to.
Was never meant to be mine inthe first place.
And that's how quickly DivisionC can creep in if we're not
careful.
Yeah.
We're not meant to carry afence.
No.
You know, and this can happen atwork too.
You know, one person getscredit, another one feels
overlooked, and then bla a wallgoes up.
Yeah.
Right.
And the struggle's this, I mean,reconciliation is messy.
(13:59):
Sometimes forgiveness feelstotally unfair.
And.
Honestly, humility can feel likeweakness a lot of times.
Oh, and there have been timesI've wanted to hold on to being
right more than I have wanted tohold onto peace.
Mm.
And I've seen that, you know, inour relationship where again,
you know, you say something, Isay something, you say
(14:21):
something, I say something andthen all of a sudden, you know,
we have this, it's funny now,brother, it's, but, but.
You know, I wanted to be right.
Right.
And I was right.
Yeah.
And, and it was more importantthan peace.
But Jesus reminds me over andover, that's not his way and
that is not what he modeled forus.
(14:41):
Right?
His way is to choose love, evenwhen your pride or I'll stick to
I sentence I in me, even when mypride wants to choose distance.
Um, and when I finally let himtear down that wall.
You know, I, I find the freedomand the healing that I was
missing all along.
I re you, you're talking about,uh, wanting to be right.
(15:05):
It just reminds me, I, I don'tknow whether it was Jonathan or
whether it was Steve, is that itwas bro, they said to me, this
is early in my recovery is saidbro.
Do you want to be right Or doyou want peace in your home?
Right.
Do you want like, I want both.
(15:26):
Can I have both?
He's like, probably not, right.
No, no.
But anyway, it's funny now,right?
But, uh, so I think, uh, thatwe'd all do well to focus more
on the path that Jesus modeledfor us.
Yeah.
Uh, I did.
Um.
Did you notice the, the threeexamples that you just, uh, that
(15:49):
you just used, that the offendedwas challenged with?
A self-centered me perspective.
Mm.
And it remind me, and wementioned this, I don't know,
some in, in an episode, uh, theme perspective, the selfish
perspective, the, uh, theseagulls and Finding Nemo.
Yeah, mine, mine, mine, mine.
(16:09):
Mine.
And, uh, but, but the, theselfish me perspective gets us
nowhere.
Right?
Um, uh, spouse making a carelesscomment.
Uh, the offended spouse, theoverlooked church attendant or
the coworker, these offenderswere all offended, uh, because
they were all about me, me, me.
(16:30):
Yeah.
And that's not what Jesusmodeled at all, right?
Simply said Jesus.
Uh, he, he said, love God.
Love each other, like, I loveyou.
Right?
Wow.
Yeah.
Love God.
Love each other like Jesus lovesyou.
(16:53):
Mm-hmm.
That's what the man said.
And as, as we've been able toembrace the, uh, and this is not
the great suggestion, this isthe great commandment.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and as we, as we havedecided to not just for Jesus,
not just to believe that he washere and, and he walked the
(17:13):
planet and he said all these,all this great stuff, we, we,
we've decided to not justbelieve, but to follow.
Yeah.
And we've decided to love Godfirst.
Love each other, love ourselves.
'cause we gotta love each.
We gotta love ourselves.
Mm.
We gotta forgive ourselvesbefore we can love and forgive
others.
And, uh, like Jesus has forgivenand, and loves us.
(17:36):
And that if, if there's ever,if, if I could pick just one
blammo moment to that would beit.
Yeah.
The great commandment.
And, and how that plays out inour lives and how we decide to
do that.
And it's like you said earlier,it's not always easy, but I, I
just.
I love the love of Jesus, andI'm still growing in that love
(18:01):
still.
And, and we're, we're nevergonna wrap our heads around it.
No, because he's, he's not afterour heads.
He's after our hearts.
Yes.
And, and I'm still wrapping myheart around the love of Christ.
Yeah.
And what a journey.
Yeah.
I'm, uh, yeah.
Selfish builds the wall.
But Jesus didn't model buildingwalls.
(18:23):
He selfless.
Yeah.
He was a selfless savior.
Selfless tears down the wall.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, so as we, uh, as we werestarting to wind down here.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and so how do we starttearing down these walls?
(18:45):
You know, biblically, I thinktoday we got, uh, three.
We've got three perspectives.
We've got three perspectives,three biblical perspectives
today of how to tear down thewall and the first choose
forgiveness First.
Number one is choose forgivenessfirst.
He who forgives first wins.
(19:07):
Yeah.
Uh, resentment.
I share this in, in a revivingrecovery, unbound resentment is
like sugar in the gas tank ofyour automobile.
It screws everything up.
Okay.
But you gotta give somebackground for that because
like, I didn't know what thatmeant when I first heard you say
that.
Like, I kind of guessed what itmeant.
(19:28):
Yeah.
I mean, sugar in your gas tank,but, but there's, there's a.
You have a story behind that?
Yeah, it was, uh, you know,yeah, so sugar and the guy, I
don't know if it was a seventiesthing.
I'm not sure if people that'seven a thing anymore.
I'm not sure if it's still athing anymore, but, you know.
Anyway, uh, my dad was a, a, uh,general Motors worker.
(19:52):
He was an auto worker all hislife, Lordstown, Ohio.
Uh, he.
Started in 66 when they opened.
He retired from Lordstown and hewent, my dad was a bit of a
rebel and, uh, he, so as a, as amember of the UAW United Auto
(20:15):
Worker as a, as a a, uh.
Auto worker at at LordstownGeneral Motors.
Dad thought it would, he thoughthe'd go out and buy a
Volkswagen.
Not too cool pops.
But, uh, I was just a kid and Iremember that, uh, they, uh.
(20:35):
Not only did they put sugar inthese gas tank and sugar will
will crystallize in your gastank and it'll screw everything
up as it runs through your fuelsystem.
So you gotta rip, you gotta tearout everything.
Uh, it, it screws up your wholeuh.
Fuel system and, uh, everything,it, it messes everything up.
I didn't know that's what itdid.
(20:56):
Yeah.
Now that makes more sense to me.
Crystal sugar, sugar willcrystallize in your, in your
fuel tank and screw up yourwhole fuel system.
So they, they put sugar in thesegas tank and they.
They picked his VW up with a,with a large forklift and they
put it in the dumpster.
And that didn't go over too wellwith the, with the union either,
because, you know, but, um,these are, um, you know, I
(21:19):
wasn't actually there.
I was just a kid, but I rememberhearing these stories and, uh,
but so, and that's where I got,uh, because it's been, uh, in
the recovery community, we say,uh, resentments, uh, like.
Uh, holding, holding aresentment against someone is
like, you know, drinking poison,expecting the other person to
die.
And it is, but that's been sooverused, man.
(21:42):
So, so I wanted somethingdifferent and I was just, I was
just writing one down.
I was like, yeah, resentment islike screw like sugar in the gas
tank because it messes upeverything Right.
You know, and it's, and it's ourown prison.
Yeah.
So resentment, if, if we'reholding, if we're holding, uh.
A resentment, or if we'rerefusing to un refusing to
(22:03):
forgive someone, then we're theone, we're, we're in prison.
Mm-hmm.
That's our own personal prison.
Yeah.
And, uh, so it's up to us, uswalking everything up.
Yeah.
We're all, we're all bound upand unforgiveness and when we,
when we can, uh, we havedecisions to make.
Yeah.
You know, we can, we, if wedecide for unforgiveness, then
we get the anxiety and the hateand the division and the war.
(22:28):
Or if we decide for forgiveness,uh, we get peace, we get love,
we compassion, we getreconciliation.
Yeah, we, it seems like an easydecision.
Mm-hmm.
But so many people out therewalking around, breathing air.
(22:48):
They decide for unforgiveness.
Yeah.
And look at the condition thatwe're in.
So what we need here is moreforgiveness.
Yeah.
So do, what do you want?
Do you want anxiety, hate, andwar?
Or do you want peace, love, andcompassion?
Yeah.
Colossians three 13 says,forgive as the Lord forgave you.
Forgiveness isn't just, it's notsaying what happens.
(23:11):
Okay.
It's saying that I will not letthis offense control me.
Yes.
It says I will not sit in thisprison any longer.
Yeah.
Moving on.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I mean, forgiveness is notoptional.
It's, it's a required freedomfor us, for the individual.
(23:32):
Yeah.
And I definitely think we needto do.
More episodes on forgiveness.
I'll be, oh, we're going to,I'll be anxious to, not anxious
in a bad way, anxious, but I'llbe excited to see what you all
say about that.
Yeah.
Um, the second is, you know,creating a safe space for
dialogue.
James one 19 reminds us to bequick to listen and slow to
(23:54):
speak.
Yeah.
And slow to anger.
So oftentimes, you know, someonewill say something and we'll,
we'll come back with somethingquickly.
Mm-hmm.
Um, in as we react rather thanrespond.
Right.
It's easy to, to what's beingsaid, it's easy to throw fuel on
fire.
Sure.
Yeah.
Um, but we want to create a safespace for dialogue so that in
(24:19):
marriage that might mean saying,go to your, going to your spouse
and say, babe, I'm not here tofight.
I, I'm here to listen and toreconcile and maybe that means
with your child, you know, notcondemning them for what they
did, but opening up theopportunity to talk to them
(24:40):
Yeah.
About something that happened.
Maybe something that they didthat that.
Maybe wasn't what you would havedone.
Mm-hmm.
Um, or with a teammate, youknow, or if you're a leader in
business, you know, leaving thatspace open for your employees,
letting them know that you havean open door policy.
Yeah.
To come talk to you.
(25:01):
Yeah.
And discuss if there's an issue.
It's a matter of respectinganother's perspective.
Yeah.
And in teams, that means thatleaders model humility by
inviting feedback withoutretaliation.
You know, just because anemployee comes and says that
maybe they're having a hard timeor they didn't like, uh, the way
(25:21):
you did something.
Having humility and apologizingfor that or, or looking for
another option if there, ifthere's something that's not
working out well with them,looking for another option to be
able to, to make that workbetter.
Um, but being open to thatdialogue is so important in any
(25:42):
relationship, and again,listening more than you speak.
That's it.
That's it.
And I've mentioned this severaltimes before, but my, my dear,
dear mentor and friend DickSmith told me in the beginning,
he goes, Alvin, the Lord gaveyou two ears and one mouth for a
reason.
Right?
So you can listen.
(26:04):
Twice as much as you speak.
Yeah.
And I would say as far ascommunication goes, and I, I, I
teach this, uh, wherever I go,whether it be, uh, in recovery
or whether it be with thecompany, that listening is the
better part of communication.
Mm-hmm.
We gotta listen and.
(26:24):
Most people are challenged withthat, and it takes, it takes
humility.
Which brings us to the thirdpoint.
Yeah.
Is choose humility and practicehumility daily.
Yes.
Uh, Paul writes in his letter tothe Philippians 2:3.
Do nothing outta selfishambition or vain conceit.
Rather, in humility, valueothers above yourselves, value
(26:51):
others above yourselves.
Unity.
Doesn't begin when, when bothpeople agree it's not unity.
It's, it's not all aboutagreeing.
It begins when somebody chooseshumility first.
It, it's a willingness to listenand, and respectfully disagree.
If we, if we must.
(27:12):
Yeah.
Yeah, and, and let me add,sometimes breaking down walls
takes laughter too.
Like I know when I'm upset, youknow, sometimes Allen will come
and he will crack a goofy smile.
Now, I don't always like thatgoofy smile because sometimes I
still have my wall up and I wantto just sit in that for a little
bit, but.
(27:33):
When he does that, you know, it,his goofy smile reminds me that,
you know, we are on the sameteam and sometimes I'm very
receptive to that goofy smileright off the bat.
So most times.
Most times, yeah.
And I won't make any apologiesfor my goofy humor.
Whatever gets the ball rollingin the right direction.
Right.
I'm, I'm all for it.
I don't recall that goofy humornoted biblically though.
(27:53):
But it, it sure helps to keepthe walls from going up too
high.
Yeah.
Well, I will, uh, and.
I, we love the chosen.
Yeah.
True.
And I, I love the, uh, I lovethe, the artistic liberty that
they've taken to, to, uh, to putpersonalities into the
disciples, into Jesus and intoall the characters.
(28:15):
Yeah.
And they're, uh, they don't, uh,'cause if you're, if you don't
really know, and if you're justgetting started in your, in
your, uh, your Christ walk.
You just started believing andyou just started following then,
then maybe the words on the pageare, are a little rigid.
Mm-hmm.
They seem a little rigid.
But you know, these, these werereal people and, and real exist.
(28:37):
They existed in real time.
Yeah.
And they had personalities andthey, they faced trials and
they, and they celebrated.
Yeah.
I, one of my, and this is offtopic, but one of my, uh,
favorite.
Favorite scenes.
That's, it's, it's never notedin any of the gospels that Jesus
and the disciples, uh, what's,what's that?
(28:58):
They, when they got up on theplayed chicken, was that a Oh
yeah.
When they, like, when they wereplaying, like Marco Polo, Marco
Polo, they were, they were inthe, they were in the water.
They were up on each other'sshoulders and they were like
doing chicken, trying to knockeach other off.
Yeah.
And that's not noted biblically,but it was, but they, they did
life together.
Yeah.
And I, and that's, uh.
(29:18):
That was cool.
Yeah.
But, uh, so there was definitelysomeone there that had goofy
humor.
I'm sure.
I'm sure.
Im sure there was.
Yeah.
I'm sure there was.
And I'm, I'm guessing maybe itmight've been Jesus.
It might've been, you know, andwhen, maybe when Peter's like,
how many times do I have toforgive Lord?
And he is like, Peter Duh.
(29:43):
Seven times 70.
Right.
How long?
Oh my goodness.
Anyway, my goodness.
Anyway, going on.
We wanna give you some takeawaysas we do every episode and just
kind of recapping what we justtalked about.
You know, we said thatforgiveness is not optional.
It's freedom and it's freedomfor you.
(30:05):
It's freedom for you.
Who is offering the forgivenessor who is forgiving the per the
person who hurt you.
Yeah.
By his blood alone.
You know, Jesus Christ tore downthe walls of hostility.
Now we get to live and share inhis piece.
Yeah.
So, and that is so special.
(30:27):
He tore those walls down and weget to live there.
Absolutely.
And then Unity begins.
The third one is, unity beginswhen someone chooses humility
first, as Allen was just talkingabout and.
We need to be that person whochooses humility first.
As as Christians, we, we arecalled to be Christlike.
(30:50):
We are, and there's no betterexample of humility than Jesus
Christ.
No greater example.
No greater example on, on justabout everything, right?
Yeah.
I wouldn't say just about, letme, well, not just about
humility, I wasn't saying that,but on everything, with
everything, Jesus, Jesus is theanswer.
He's the example.
Um, so we like to end, uh, wedon't want to just throw out all
(31:14):
this information and, and knowwe always like to end with a
challenge or an action item.
Something.
How, how can we.
Implement this in our dailylives.
Yeah.
So this week your challenge isto identify one wall in your
life probably is not thatdifficult to identify just one.
Uh uh.
And maybe, maybe it's yourspouse, maybe it's a family
(31:36):
member, maybe it's a coworker,or maybe it's someone in your
church, you know who that personis.
And take the first step to teardown the wall, tear down this
wall.
Decide for humility.
Yeah.
Start the conversation.
Offer forgiveness and forclarity, forgiveness doesn't
(31:57):
mean that what they did is okay.
Right?
It's, it's not, it's not alicense to be walked on.
Forgiveness is saying that, Hey,I, I'm willing to let that go.
I'm not gonna live in thisspirit of offense, under this
offense.
I'm gonna let that go and I'mgonna, I'm, I'm not gonna.
(32:20):
I forgive you.
It's, it's really simple as thatand as, and it's been as long as
it comes from the heart and notjust from the mouth, it has to
come from the heart in that.
Yeah.
And we, and, and quite often, Iknow keeping this, that I, in me
statements mm-hmm.
I, I gotta pray into that man.
Yeah.
You know,'cause I've, I've gotsome people that I've, I've had
to.
Had to forgive, uh, recently.
(32:41):
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and not so recently.
And, and it always comes downto, Lord, what do I do here?
How, how do I do this?
Yeah.
I know that forgiveness isnecessary, but, uh, how do I do
this?
And, and I, I want to make surethat, uh, we wanna make sure
that we we're authenticallydoing that.
Yeah.
And he'll, he'll let you knowas, as our.
(33:02):
As, as, uh, as as myrelationship has grown with him,
he, he'll, he'll let us know.
And it might not be how we thinkhe might let us know, but when
he lets us know, it's prettycool.
Yeah, it's pretty cool.
And um, and you know, when weinvest in reconciliation, we, we
reflect Jesus.
(33:23):
And when we reflect Jesus, wemake his kingdom visible here on
this earth.
And that's really what.
We want to do.
That's it.
That's what faithfully investsall about.
Mm-hmm.
Because when we invest in hiskingdom, who brings the
increase?
He brings the increase.
Well, we love you all and wewill see you next time.
(33:45):
And until then, let's just keepbreaking down those walls and
building those bridges of grace.
Tear down the wall.
God bless.
Thanks for joining us onFaithfully Invested with Allen
and Stacy Jo, if today'sconversation encouraged you,
challenged you, or helped yousee your calling more clearly,
(34:06):
don't keep it to yourself.
That's right.
Share it with a friend.
Leave a five star review andkeep leaning into God's
blueprint for your life, yourleadership, and your legacy.
So until next time, remember,when you invest in his kingdom,
he brings the increase.
Are you ready to build a life,business and legacy that truly
lasts?
Welcome to Faithfully Investedwith Allen and Stacy Jo Thorne,
where Faith meets real talk.
Biblical wisdom meets everydaylife and leadership meets
laughter.
Together we will uncover God'sblueprint for leadership,
marriage, and mission, helpingfaith-driven leaders invest in
(00:21):
what matters most.
Each episode, we explorebiblical wisdom, have real
conversations, and of course,have some fun along the way
because let's be real.
Walking in faith is anadventure.
It sure is.
So pull up a seat, grab yourcoffee or your sweet tea, and
join us as we steward ourcallings with intention, because
(00:42):
when we invest in his kingdom,he brings the increase.
Hey friends.
Welcome back to FaithfullyInvested, where we uncover God's
blueprint for leadership,marriage, and mission.
I'm Allen.
And I'm Stacy Jo, and we areglad you've joined us today.
(01:06):
So Allen, before we get started,I would like to know what is the
first thing that comes to mindwhen I mention the word
reconciliation?
Um.
That's a great question.
Thank you.
Uh, great question, but reallywithout hesitation, I, I go
straight to Jesus.
Uh, I like what Pastor Todd saysis he's always the right answer,
(01:29):
right?
But Jesus is always the answer.
So, uh, because the word saysin, in second Corinthians that,
uh, per God's plan, that onlyJesus reconciles us before the
Father.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
We've been created by thefather.
(01:49):
Uh, we, we fell into this world.
We, we were brought into thisworld.
We didn't fall into this world.
We were brought into this.
Did a stark delivery.
You, uh, no, that, where didthat come from?
I, I don't even wanna know.
Uh, thank you for.
But, um, so we, we came intothis world, uh, entered into sin
(02:10):
and, and, uh, Jesus brought usback.
He reconciled us to our creator.
He reconciled us, uh, before theFather, and he has given us the
ministry of reconciliation.
The word says that Jesus, but,uh, uh, our decision for Christ,
uh, makes us righteous.
(02:30):
Before the father.
It's his righteousness.
Not, uh, not ours, but he's theonly, yes.
So there it is.
Okay.
So explain, reconcile.
What does Paul mean by sayingthe ministry of Reconciliation?
Yeah, that's a also, thanks forthat, uh, requesting that
(02:51):
clarification'cause some peopledon't know.
And, and we're here to, uh.
We're here to clarify stuff likethat, to reconcile, uh, and the
truest sense of the word meansto, to make friendly.
Again, or to return to harmony.
I love harmonies.
You're very good at harmonies.
Those of you that don't know.
No, no.
My lovely Stacy, Jo.
(03:13):
Oh, stop.
Amazing singer.
That wasn't why I said that, butWell, I'm just saying, you know,
and you can see, you know, I dolike harmony.
She's very good.
Very good.
Anyway, uh, back toreconciliation.
I think our greatest value is,uh, is how God in Christ
(03:33):
presents all people.
Every one of us have anopportunity to be reconciled
before the Father.
He in, in Jesus Christ.
God gives us an opportunity,everybody an opportunity.
He gives us an option to comeback.
And as we do, he counts ourtrespasses against us no more.
He tore down the wall oftrespasses that stood between us
(03:58):
and him, and he brought us backinto right relation with himself
through the blood of JesusChrist.
Yes, there it is.
And that's exactly what we'retalking about today, tearing
down walls and reconcilingrelationships.
And believe it or not, this isactually one of.
Our favorite topics because itinvolves forgiveness.
(04:18):
Forgiveness, yeah.
We love the topic offorgiveness.
Yeah.
Forgiveness is because we knowAwesome.
We know that what happens whenyou don't forgive or you don't
feel like you can forgive.
Right.
We need to do, we need to do afull episode.
I was thinking about that.
Yeah.
Uh, just on forgiveness.
Yeah.
(04:38):
You know, for sure.
We could actually do a series onthat, but.
Maybe we will.
Do you guys want to hear that?
Would you like your, would youlike faithfully invested to, to
bust out some, some forgivenessepisodes?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let us know.
Let us know what you think.
Let us know.
Send us a, send us a message.
Drop a comment in the, uh,YouTube video here and, uh, and
(05:02):
let us know.
Yeah.
Right on.
Yeah.
Anyhow, moving on.
You know, I, you know, I thinkwe can all agree that
relationships, whether it'smarriage, family.
Church.
Um, they can be challenging attimes.
Do you think we've had some chachallenging times in our
marriage there, babe?
(05:22):
I think in any relationship, um,whether it be our relationship
with the Lord mm-hmm.
Uh, or a relationship withourselves or relationship with
others, I think it's, it'sdefinitely challenging,
especially if we decide to goit, uh.
Go it on our own.
Right.
You know, I think, I think itcan be definitely be
challenging.
Yes.
Yeah.
I mean, little things can creepin, you know, those small
(05:44):
offenses or unspokendisappointments or How about
unmet expectations?
Whoa, Uhhuh?
Yeah.
Unmet expectations is huge.
Huge.
And if we're not careful, thoselittle bricks just start
stacking up and before we evenrealize it, we've built a wall.
Between us and the very peoplethat God has called us to love,
(06:06):
whether that be our spouse orour children or our neighbors,
or whoever.
Right?
Well, God's word, uh, the truth,uh, says to us Paul.
Paul writes in and.
His epistle to the Church ofEphesus in Ephesians chapter
two, uh, verses 14 through 16,uh, when he addresses the
(06:29):
Gentiles,'cause that's what Pauldoes.
Paul was God's instrument, uh,for the Gentiles, uh, who are,
who are non-Jewish people.
Uh, and Paul went to them and hesaid that Christ himself is our
peace.
Uh, by the blood of Jesus, hetears down the dividing wall of
hostility.
(06:50):
Uh, just as Jesus tore down thewall between God and humanity,
then surely as we decide forJesus as we make a decision for
Christ, he gives us the power totear down the wall between us
and others.
Yes.
That's so good.
Yeah.
And, and the challenge, I mean,the challenge for me is I know
(07:13):
what it feels like to wanna keepmy walls up.
Those walls have felt safe forme in the past.
It's, I've found it easy toconvince myself that if I stay
behind those walls, then I won'tget hurt again.
Mm.
Um, but I've also learned thehard way that those same walls
that make me feel protectedactually keep out the healing
(07:34):
too.
Yeah.
And instead of keeping me safe,they actually trapped me.
And they leave me Isolated.
Yeah.
Isolated.
And I find myself replaying thehurt and missing the opportunity
that God had to restore what'sbroken within me.
Yeah.
And I, we could do, you know, wecould talk so much on that and
(07:55):
at some point we probably will,but every time I've chosen to
cling to a wall, it hasn'tbrought me peace at all.
No, not at all.
It's only kept me from thereconciliation that, that he had
for me, but.
Yeah.
Every time I've surrendered andallowed God's love to flow
through me, well, he's beenfaithful to break down those
(08:17):
walls, and that's actually whathe calls us to.
He calls us to not build afortress, but to be ministers of
reconciliation.
Absolutely.
Which in turn lets his love healand unite us, right?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
He like, he, he is.
I mean, he's the master.
(08:38):
He's, he's the creator.
He's, he's the master of tearingdown the wall so he can solidify
the foundation, who is JesusChrist.
Yeah.
And so he's gotta deconstruct sohe can solidify the foundation,
so we can reconstruct our livesin Christ with, with him as the
foundation.
And I, and I think, you know,back going, thinking back to
(09:02):
what I've read about whenChrist.
Died on the cross and thecurtain split.
Right.
You know, that curtain was morelike a wall.
It was so thick.
Right.
It wasn't a curtain like we seetoday, the veil hanging on our
walls.
Ve Right.
The veil.
Yeah.
Or hanging on our windows.
But it was thick and it wasalmost like a wall.
(09:22):
Right.
And, and so when that cracked,you know, when you were talking
about.
Back in the beginning of when wewere just talking here, you were
talking about how it's separatedor it, it brought unity instead
of dividing.
Mm-hmm.
Him and humanity.
Right.
God and humanity.
Right.
I, uh, I like what, uh, andPastor Todd, uh, we seem to be
(09:45):
mentioning Pastor Todd Mago.
He's extremely influential.
Mm-hmm.
And what a, what a uh, uh, hisexposition of the word is.
Yeah.
Second to none, quite honestly.
Uh, but I like what he saidabout this at some point, and
it's really stuck with me, is,well, the common, uh,
misconception is that when theveil was torn, it gave us access
(10:09):
in, but, but what I believe whatTodd said here was that it, it
gave, it let the spirit out.
Yes.
Yes.
It let the spirit out and, uh,and.
Yeah.
So that's, it's cool.
So, and the division was goneand the division Yeah.
Between, uh, between us and thecreator was, uh mm-hmm.
(10:30):
The wall.
The, the wall was, the veil wastorn.
The wall came down.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, uh, yeah.
So, mm-hmm.
Thanks Pastor Todd.
We love you.
Yeah.
Um, so how does thisreconciliation play out in
marriage?
Maybe, maybe one spouse?
Uh.
Uh, maybe one spouse sayssomething careless.
(10:50):
Uh, that may or may not havebeen me on time or me
previously.
We've both, we've both donethat.
And you'll see if you're just,if you're new here, you'll see
that Stacy and I never claimperfection.
Oh.
Uh,'cause there's only oneperfect one and it's certainly
not Allen or Stacy.
Right.
Uh, and, uh, we are, we aregrateful for our, not
(11:11):
perfection, but progression,right?
Yeah.
Through our, through our walk.
Yeah.
With him.
So, so maybe we say somethingcareless and instead of
addressing that.
Uh, addressing it in the momentinstead of, you know, like, like
adults do.
We'll, uh, we'll put a, put ablock on the wall.
Yeah.
Then another comment, anotherblock, and before long you
(11:32):
gotta, you're very on borderwall running through the living
room.
Right.
Not cool.
I just, as you're talking aboutthat, I'm just seeing you
placing a block and then meplacing a block and you placing
a block and me placing a blockblock and we're building one
wall, but I'm pretty soon us,they can't even smell the
kitchen.
They can't even smell the dinnerin the kitchen.
(11:52):
Yeah.
Stupid wall.
But, you know.
Anyway, I'll, I'll be honest,there have been times, there
have been times in our, in ourmarriage where I've.
I've felt those walls andstacking up.
Right.
And like you said, maybe yousaid something in the moment
that stung and instead oftalking about it right away, I
just let it sit.
(12:12):
Or like I just said, I saidsomething back and continued to
help you build the wall.
Right.
And we did it.
We did it together, babe.
Yay.
But you know, before, before Iknow it, I'm building that
little wall in my heart and, andI'm not.
Saying that this just happens inmarriage.
(12:32):
Um, it happens in church lifetoo.
It happens in work, you know,wherever.
But sometimes it can be as smallas, as a misunderstanding, like,
well, she didn't invite me or heoverlooked me, and I've been
there.
Um.
100% I've been there.
Right.
And gossip can create a walltoo.
(12:53):
Sure.
That's why, you know, the, andthe, the, we don't, we don't do
gossip here.
We don't like gossip.
The, the lord doesn't likegossiping.
Right.
You get, you get into the Hesaid, she said, yeah, bunk.
And you know, then someone'soffended when, when over
something that.
May have been misconstrued, mayor may not have.
Yeah.
Through the grapevine at somepoint, and it maybe never was
(13:14):
said.
So Yeah.
Then, then you know, someone'soffended for no reason and that,
and it can happen like that,right?
And those little moments canfeel so big if we let them.
But when we, when I stop and Ilook back on those times, I
realize that most of the time itwasn't even intentional.
Right?
And here I was carrying anoffense that I was never meant
(13:35):
to.
Was never meant to be mine inthe first place.
And that's how quickly DivisionC can creep in if we're not
careful.
Yeah.
We're not meant to carry afence.
No.
You know, and this can happen atwork too.
You know, one person getscredit, another one feels
overlooked, and then bla a wallgoes up.
Yeah.
Right.
And the struggle's this, I mean,reconciliation is messy.
(13:59):
Sometimes forgiveness feelstotally unfair.
And.
Honestly, humility can feel likeweakness a lot of times.
Oh, and there have been timesI've wanted to hold on to being
right more than I have wanted tohold onto peace.
Mm.
And I've seen that, you know, inour relationship where again,
you know, you say something, Isay something, you say
(14:21):
something, I say something andthen all of a sudden, you know,
we have this, it's funny now,brother, it's, but, but.
You know, I wanted to be right.
Right.
And I was right.
Yeah.
And, and it was more importantthan peace.
But Jesus reminds me over andover, that's not his way and
that is not what he modeled forus.
(14:41):
Right?
His way is to choose love, evenwhen your pride or I'll stick to
I sentence I in me, even when mypride wants to choose distance.
Um, and when I finally let himtear down that wall.
You know, I, I find the freedomand the healing that I was
missing all along.
I re you, you're talking about,uh, wanting to be right.
(15:05):
It just reminds me, I, I don'tknow whether it was Jonathan or
whether it was Steve, is that itwas bro, they said to me, this
is early in my recovery is saidbro.
Do you want to be right Or doyou want peace in your home?
Right.
Do you want like, I want both.
(15:26):
Can I have both?
He's like, probably not, right.
No, no.
But anyway, it's funny now,right?
But, uh, so I think, uh, thatwe'd all do well to focus more
on the path that Jesus modeledfor us.
Yeah.
Uh, I did.
Um.
Did you notice the, the threeexamples that you just, uh, that
(15:49):
you just used, that the offendedwas challenged with?
A self-centered me perspective.
Mm.
And it remind me, and wementioned this, I don't know,
some in, in an episode, uh, theme perspective, the selfish
perspective, the, uh, theseagulls and Finding Nemo.
Yeah, mine, mine, mine, mine.
(16:09):
Mine.
And, uh, but, but the, theselfish me perspective gets us
nowhere.
Right?
Um, uh, spouse making a carelesscomment.
Uh, the offended spouse, theoverlooked church attendant or
the coworker, these offenderswere all offended, uh, because
they were all about me, me, me.
(16:30):
Yeah.
And that's not what Jesusmodeled at all, right?
Simply said Jesus.
Uh, he, he said, love God.
Love each other, like, I loveyou.
Right?
Wow.
Yeah.
Love God.
Love each other like Jesus lovesyou.
(16:53):
Mm-hmm.
That's what the man said.
And as, as we've been able toembrace the, uh, and this is not
the great suggestion, this isthe great commandment.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and as we, as we havedecided to not just for Jesus,
not just to believe that he washere and, and he walked the
(17:13):
planet and he said all these,all this great stuff, we, we,
we've decided to not justbelieve, but to follow.
Yeah.
And we've decided to love Godfirst.
Love each other, love ourselves.
'cause we gotta love each.
We gotta love ourselves.
Mm.
We gotta forgive ourselvesbefore we can love and forgive
others.
And, uh, like Jesus has forgivenand, and loves us.
(17:36):
And that if, if there's ever,if, if I could pick just one
blammo moment to that would beit.
Yeah.
The great commandment.
And, and how that plays out inour lives and how we decide to
do that.
And it's like you said earlier,it's not always easy, but I, I
just.
I love the love of Jesus, andI'm still growing in that love
(18:01):
still.
And, and we're, we're nevergonna wrap our heads around it.
No, because he's, he's not afterour heads.
He's after our hearts.
Yes.
And, and I'm still wrapping myheart around the love of Christ.
Yeah.
And what a journey.
Yeah.
I'm, uh, yeah.
Selfish builds the wall.
But Jesus didn't model buildingwalls.
(18:23):
He selfless.
Yeah.
He was a selfless savior.
Selfless tears down the wall.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, so as we, uh, as we werestarting to wind down here.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and so how do we starttearing down these walls?
(18:45):
You know, biblically, I thinktoday we got, uh, three.
We've got three perspectives.
We've got three perspectives,three biblical perspectives
today of how to tear down thewall and the first choose
forgiveness First.
Number one is choose forgivenessfirst.
He who forgives first wins.
(19:07):
Yeah.
Uh, resentment.
I share this in, in a revivingrecovery, unbound resentment is
like sugar in the gas tank ofyour automobile.
It screws everything up.
Okay.
But you gotta give somebackground for that because
like, I didn't know what thatmeant when I first heard you say
that.
Like, I kind of guessed what itmeant.
(19:28):
Yeah.
I mean, sugar in your gas tank,but, but there's, there's a.
You have a story behind that?
Yeah, it was, uh, you know,yeah, so sugar and the guy, I
don't know if it was a seventiesthing.
I'm not sure if people that'seven a thing anymore.
I'm not sure if it's still athing anymore, but, you know.
Anyway, uh, my dad was a, a, uh,general Motors worker.
(19:52):
He was an auto worker all hislife, Lordstown, Ohio.
Uh, he.
Started in 66 when they opened.
He retired from Lordstown and hewent, my dad was a bit of a
rebel and, uh, he, so as a, as amember of the UAW United Auto
(20:15):
Worker as a, as a a, uh.
Auto worker at at LordstownGeneral Motors.
Dad thought it would, he thoughthe'd go out and buy a
Volkswagen.
Not too cool pops.
But, uh, I was just a kid and Iremember that, uh, they, uh.
(20:35):
Not only did they put sugar inthese gas tank and sugar will
will crystallize in your gastank and it'll screw everything
up as it runs through your fuelsystem.
So you gotta rip, you gotta tearout everything.
Uh, it, it screws up your wholeuh.
Fuel system and, uh, everything,it, it messes everything up.
I didn't know that's what itdid.
(20:56):
Yeah.
Now that makes more sense to me.
Crystal sugar, sugar willcrystallize in your, in your
fuel tank and screw up yourwhole fuel system.
So they, they put sugar in thesegas tank and they.
They picked his VW up with a,with a large forklift and they
put it in the dumpster.
And that didn't go over too wellwith the, with the union either,
because, you know, but, um,these are, um, you know, I
(21:19):
wasn't actually there.
I was just a kid, but I rememberhearing these stories and, uh,
but so, and that's where I got,uh, because it's been, uh, in
the recovery community, we say,uh, resentments, uh, like.
Uh, holding, holding aresentment against someone is
like, you know, drinking poison,expecting the other person to
die.
And it is, but that's been sooverused, man.
(21:42):
So, so I wanted somethingdifferent and I was just, I was
just writing one down.
I was like, yeah, resentment islike screw like sugar in the gas
tank because it messes upeverything Right.
You know, and it's, and it's ourown prison.
Yeah.
So resentment, if, if we'reholding, if we're holding, uh.
A resentment, or if we'rerefusing to un refusing to
(22:03):
forgive someone, then we're theone, we're, we're in prison.
Mm-hmm.
That's our own personal prison.
Yeah.
And, uh, so it's up to us, uswalking everything up.
Yeah.
We're all, we're all bound upand unforgiveness and when we,
when we can, uh, we havedecisions to make.
Yeah.
You know, we can, we, if wedecide for unforgiveness, then
we get the anxiety and the hateand the division and the war.
(22:28):
Or if we decide for forgiveness,uh, we get peace, we get love,
we compassion, we getreconciliation.
Yeah, we, it seems like an easydecision.
Mm-hmm.
But so many people out therewalking around, breathing air.
(22:48):
They decide for unforgiveness.
Yeah.
And look at the condition thatwe're in.
So what we need here is moreforgiveness.
Yeah.
So do, what do you want?
Do you want anxiety, hate, andwar?
Or do you want peace, love, andcompassion?
Yeah.
Colossians three 13 says,forgive as the Lord forgave you.
Forgiveness isn't just, it's notsaying what happens.
(23:11):
Okay.
It's saying that I will not letthis offense control me.
Yes.
It says I will not sit in thisprison any longer.
Yeah.
Moving on.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I mean, forgiveness is notoptional.
It's, it's a required freedomfor us, for the individual.
(23:32):
Yeah.
And I definitely think we needto do.
More episodes on forgiveness.
I'll be, oh, we're going to,I'll be anxious to, not anxious
in a bad way, anxious, but I'llbe excited to see what you all
say about that.
Yeah.
Um, the second is, you know,creating a safe space for
dialogue.
James one 19 reminds us to bequick to listen and slow to
(23:54):
speak.
Yeah.
And slow to anger.
So oftentimes, you know, someonewill say something and we'll,
we'll come back with somethingquickly.
Mm-hmm.
Um, in as we react rather thanrespond.
Right.
It's easy to, to what's beingsaid, it's easy to throw fuel on
fire.
Sure.
Yeah.
Um, but we want to create a safespace for dialogue so that in
(24:19):
marriage that might mean saying,go to your, going to your spouse
and say, babe, I'm not here tofight.
I, I'm here to listen and toreconcile and maybe that means
with your child, you know, notcondemning them for what they
did, but opening up theopportunity to talk to them
(24:40):
Yeah.
About something that happened.
Maybe something that they didthat that.
Maybe wasn't what you would havedone.
Mm-hmm.
Um, or with a teammate, youknow, or if you're a leader in
business, you know, leaving thatspace open for your employees,
letting them know that you havean open door policy.
Yeah.
To come talk to you.
(25:01):
Yeah.
And discuss if there's an issue.
It's a matter of respectinganother's perspective.
Yeah.
And in teams, that means thatleaders model humility by
inviting feedback withoutretaliation.
You know, just because anemployee comes and says that
maybe they're having a hard timeor they didn't like, uh, the way
(25:21):
you did something.
Having humility and apologizingfor that or, or looking for
another option if there, ifthere's something that's not
working out well with them,looking for another option to be
able to, to make that workbetter.
Um, but being open to thatdialogue is so important in any
(25:42):
relationship, and again,listening more than you speak.
That's it.
That's it.
And I've mentioned this severaltimes before, but my, my dear,
dear mentor and friend DickSmith told me in the beginning,
he goes, Alvin, the Lord gaveyou two ears and one mouth for a
reason.
Right?
So you can listen.
(26:04):
Twice as much as you speak.
Yeah.
And I would say as far ascommunication goes, and I, I, I
teach this, uh, wherever I go,whether it be, uh, in recovery
or whether it be with thecompany, that listening is the
better part of communication.
Mm-hmm.
We gotta listen and.
(26:24):
Most people are challenged withthat, and it takes, it takes
humility.
Which brings us to the thirdpoint.
Yeah.
Is choose humility and practicehumility daily.
Yes.
Uh, Paul writes in his letter tothe Philippians 2:3.
Do nothing outta selfishambition or vain conceit.
Rather, in humility, valueothers above yourselves, value
(26:51):
others above yourselves.
Unity.
Doesn't begin when, when bothpeople agree it's not unity.
It's, it's not all aboutagreeing.
It begins when somebody chooseshumility first.
It, it's a willingness to listenand, and respectfully disagree.
If we, if we must.
(27:12):
Yeah.
Yeah, and, and let me add,sometimes breaking down walls
takes laughter too.
Like I know when I'm upset, youknow, sometimes Allen will come
and he will crack a goofy smile.
Now, I don't always like thatgoofy smile because sometimes I
still have my wall up and I wantto just sit in that for a little
bit, but.
(27:33):
When he does that, you know, it,his goofy smile reminds me that,
you know, we are on the sameteam and sometimes I'm very
receptive to that goofy smileright off the bat.
So most times.
Most times, yeah.
And I won't make any apologiesfor my goofy humor.
Whatever gets the ball rollingin the right direction.
Right.
I'm, I'm all for it.
I don't recall that goofy humornoted biblically though.
(27:53):
But it, it sure helps to keepthe walls from going up too
high.
Yeah.
Well, I will, uh, and.
I, we love the chosen.
Yeah.
True.
And I, I love the, uh, I lovethe, the artistic liberty that
they've taken to, to, uh, to putpersonalities into the
disciples, into Jesus and intoall the characters.
(28:15):
Yeah.
And they're, uh, they don't, uh,'cause if you're, if you don't
really know, and if you're justgetting started in your, in
your, uh, your Christ walk.
You just started believing andyou just started following then,
then maybe the words on the pageare, are a little rigid.
Mm-hmm.
They seem a little rigid.
But you know, these, these werereal people and, and real exist.
(28:37):
They existed in real time.
Yeah.
And they had personalities andthey, they faced trials and
they, and they celebrated.
Yeah.
I, one of my, and this is offtopic, but one of my, uh,
favorite.
Favorite scenes.
That's, it's, it's never notedin any of the gospels that Jesus
and the disciples, uh, what's,what's that?
(28:58):
They, when they got up on theplayed chicken, was that a Oh
yeah.
When they, like, when they wereplaying, like Marco Polo, Marco
Polo, they were, they were inthe, they were in the water.
They were up on each other'sshoulders and they were like
doing chicken, trying to knockeach other off.
Yeah.
And that's not noted biblically,but it was, but they, they did
life together.
Yeah.
And I, and that's, uh.
(29:18):
That was cool.
Yeah.
But, uh, so there was definitelysomeone there that had goofy
humor.
I'm sure.
I'm sure.
Im sure there was.
Yeah.
I'm sure there was.
And I'm, I'm guessing maybe itmight've been Jesus.
It might've been, you know, andwhen, maybe when Peter's like,
how many times do I have toforgive Lord?
And he is like, Peter Duh.
(29:43):
Seven times 70.
Right.
How long?
Oh my goodness.
Anyway, my goodness.
Anyway, going on.
We wanna give you some takeawaysas we do every episode and just
kind of recapping what we justtalked about.
You know, we said thatforgiveness is not optional.
It's freedom and it's freedomfor you.
(30:05):
It's freedom for you.
Who is offering the forgivenessor who is forgiving the per the
person who hurt you.
Yeah.
By his blood alone.
You know, Jesus Christ tore downthe walls of hostility.
Now we get to live and share inhis piece.
Yeah.
So, and that is so special.
(30:27):
He tore those walls down and weget to live there.
Absolutely.
And then Unity begins.
The third one is, unity beginswhen someone chooses humility
first, as Allen was just talkingabout and.
We need to be that person whochooses humility first.
As as Christians, we, we arecalled to be Christlike.
(30:50):
We are, and there's no betterexample of humility than Jesus
Christ.
No greater example.
No greater example on, on justabout everything, right?
Yeah.
I wouldn't say just about, letme, well, not just about
humility, I wasn't saying that,but on everything, with
everything, Jesus, Jesus is theanswer.
He's the example.
Um, so we like to end, uh, wedon't want to just throw out all
(31:14):
this information and, and knowwe always like to end with a
challenge or an action item.
Something.
How, how can we.
Implement this in our dailylives.
Yeah.
So this week your challenge isto identify one wall in your
life probably is not thatdifficult to identify just one.
Uh uh.
And maybe, maybe it's yourspouse, maybe it's a family
(31:36):
member, maybe it's a coworker,or maybe it's someone in your
church, you know who that personis.
And take the first step to teardown the wall, tear down this
wall.
Decide for humility.
Yeah.
Start the conversation.
Offer forgiveness and forclarity, forgiveness doesn't
(31:57):
mean that what they did is okay.
Right?
It's, it's not, it's not alicense to be walked on.
Forgiveness is saying that, Hey,I, I'm willing to let that go.
I'm not gonna live in thisspirit of offense, under this
offense.
I'm gonna let that go and I'mgonna, I'm, I'm not gonna.
(32:20):
I forgive you.
It's, it's really simple as thatand as, and it's been as long as
it comes from the heart and notjust from the mouth, it has to
come from the heart in that.
Yeah.
And we, and, and quite often, Iknow keeping this, that I, in me
statements mm-hmm.
I, I gotta pray into that man.
Yeah.
You know,'cause I've, I've gotsome people that I've, I've had
to.
Had to forgive, uh, recently.
(32:41):
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and not so recently.
And, and it always comes downto, Lord, what do I do here?
How, how do I do this?
Yeah.
I know that forgiveness isnecessary, but, uh, how do I do
this?
And, and I, I want to make surethat, uh, we wanna make sure
that we we're authenticallydoing that.
Yeah.
And he'll, he'll let you knowas, as our.
(33:02):
As, as, uh, as as myrelationship has grown with him,
he, he'll, he'll let us know.
And it might not be how we thinkhe might let us know, but when
he lets us know, it's prettycool.
Yeah, it's pretty cool.
And um, and you know, when weinvest in reconciliation, we, we
reflect Jesus.
(33:23):
And when we reflect Jesus, wemake his kingdom visible here on
this earth.
And that's really what.
We want to do.
That's it.
That's what faithfully investsall about.
Mm-hmm.
Because when we invest in hiskingdom, who brings the
increase?
He brings the increase.
Well, we love you all and wewill see you next time.
(33:45):
And until then, let's just keepbreaking down those walls and
building those bridges of grace.
Tear down the wall.
God bless.
Thanks for joining us onFaithfully Invested with Allen
and Stacy Jo, if today'sconversation encouraged you,
challenged you, or helped yousee your calling more clearly,
(34:06):
don't keep it to yourself.
That's right.
Share it with a friend.
Leave a five star review andkeep leaning into God's
blueprint for your life, yourleadership, and your legacy.
So until next time, remember,when you invest in his kingdom,
he brings the increase.
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