November 8, 2025 • 35 mins
Discover the captivating journey of Doreen Virtue, once a leading New Age author, who found her path to Christ and renounced the beliefs she once championed. Join us on Faithfullyliven: the Podcast, as we promise to unveil the subtle ways in which New Age practices have crept into our lives, and how they may pose a risk to our Christian faith. Learn from Doreen's personal story as she reveals the alluring nature of practices like positive affirmations, yoga, and the law of attraction, and how these can lead us away from biblical truths.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to Faithfully Living, the Podcast, where we
learn how to live for Christ inour daily lives.
I'm Dwan, your host, and I wouldlike to invite you on a journey
with me to explore and learnhow to be a faithful follower of
Christ.
Hi everyone, welcome toFaithfully Living, the Podcast,
(00:42):
where we strive to encourage youto live for Christ faithfully
by offering guidance on studyingthe Bible, how to understand
the Bible better and how toremain faithful to historic
Christianity in a contemporarysociety.
What do positive and negative,energy abundance, positive
affirmations, yoga, the law ofattraction, vision boards, karma
, manifesting, psychic readings,sage spirit guides, the
universe all have in common?
Well, they're all new Agepractices.
(01:03):
The New Age movement is acounterfeit philosophy that
appeals to the feelings ofindividuals and leads them to
think that they are God and canenhance their lives through
their own person.
So the New Age movement isslowly inching its way into our
(01:25):
daily lives, and we often mightnot have realized it.
The New Age seems to offercomfort, sometimes it gives
accurate information and helpfuladvice, peace and sometimes
even success.
In reality, it's identical towhat the serpent told Eve in the
garden and Jesus in thewilderness.
(01:47):
So today is a replay of theconversation that I've had with
Doreen Virtue.
We discuss being discerning ofthe various new age practices
that we might see in ourday-to-day life.
All right, here is myconversation with Doreen.
So before I get started, let metell you a little bit about
(02:18):
Doreen.
Doreen Virtue was formerly thetop-selling New Age author at
the top New Age publisher, hayHouse.
She toured the world giving NewAge workshops and appearing on
Oprah, cnn, the View and othershows.
Doreen didn't think there wasanything wrong with the New Age
(02:39):
because she was raised inChristian science and she didn't
understand the gospel, nor hadshe read the whole Bible.
She had paranormal experiencesthroughout her life and she
thought that she thought werefrom God and angels.
She also thought that she wasfollowing Jesus, but it turned
(03:01):
out to be the false Jesus.
Was following Jesus, but itturned out to be the false Jesus
.
In January 2015, doreen heard aradio program about engine ears
and false prophets by AlistairBeck that pierced her heart.
Soon after, doreen and herhusband began going to church.
Through God's grace and theirfaith in Jesus Christ as their
(03:22):
Lord and Savior, doreen andMichael left the New Age in 2017
and were born again Christians.
Doreen holds a Master's inBiblical and Theological Studies
from Russian Seminary, as wellas a BA and MA degrees in
(03:43):
Counseling psychology fromChapman University.
She is the author of Deceive noMore how Jesus Led Me Out of
the New Age and Into His Word,published by Thomas Nelson.
All right, here is myconversation with Doreen.
Hi, doreen, welcome to the showFaithfully Living.
(04:06):
I'm glad you're here.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Thank you for having me on Dwan.
It's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
So I am doing a series on standing strong,
knowing what the Bible says whenculture tells us something
different.
And I know I want my audienceto know what is the new age and
how it's become a part of ourlives without sometimes us
knowing and knowing that youhave been in the new age and
(04:36):
kind of knowing what's allinvolved.
So I wanted to kind of talkabout some topics that influence
our lives.
But before we get into that, Iwant to know how you became a
follower of Christ and yourjourney up until now.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Well, thank you.
It's only by God's grace andmercy, through my faith in Jesus
as our Lord and Savior, that Iam saved, today, that I'm a
born-again, absolute,bible-believing Christian.
It's a miracle.
It's the last thing I expected.
It was completely God's willand I thought I was a Christian.
Is the thing about it?
Because I was raised in a falsegospel church that I didn't
(05:14):
know was false gospel, calledChristian Science, which is
neither Christian nor scientific, and my mom told us we were
Christians.
We went to church twice a week.
I was reading the King Jamesbecause it was a King James
version only as church, verylegalistic, and I was reading
the Bible since I was like sixor seven and so I always thought
(05:36):
I was Christian.
But the thing was I didn't havethe parameters of the gospel.
I didn't know who God was, Ididn't know who Jesus or the
Holy Spirit were, and withoutthat knowledge and that
relationship with them it's tooeasy to go astray.
So I did.
I became a psychotherapist witha BA and an MA in psychology
(05:57):
from Chapman University and thenfrom there I just kind of went
apostate.
I think psychology just givesyou a license to go into
mysticism and experientialismand me-centered.
It's very self-oriented andwhen you're focusing on yourself
all the time, gosh, the devilhas a playground, and he did
with me.
He masqueraded as an angel oflight, which I thought I was
(06:17):
getting messages from.
I thought it was ArchangelMichael and I was, unfortunately
, a worker of inequity beingused by the devil as a
mouthpiece.
When I thought I was helpingpeople, I really thought that I
was doing God's work, becausethere's angels in the Bible and
people told me my work comfortedthem.
It seemed to work, it seemed tobe accurate, but it was
(06:40):
pointing people away from Jesusand the Bible.
What I was doing failed the testof the spirits that the Apostle
John gives us in 1 John 4,whether we confess Jesus
biblically or not, and I did not.
I was a part of the New Agemovement that saw Jesus as a
mortal man who was a goodteacher, a good role model, who
(07:00):
was here to teach us about loveand peace from a secular view of
those words, and that he wasnow basically in heaven helping
us.
And it's so blasphemous.
But I thought of him as awish-granter, almost like a
genie back then, which I'verepented for, and that's what I
see in the New Age is a termthat means taking a little bit
(07:24):
from different cultures anddifferent religions and mixing
them together, but it's allself-focused.
It's all about glorifyingyourself, where Christianity
glorifies only God, and the NewAge also is about putting
yourself in the driver's seatfor the will of what's to happen
.
New age teaches you that you cancontrol your future, you can
(07:45):
control your destiny, which isludicrous because we know that
only god is in control right,yeah, and so continue with your
yeah well, I mean I, I the devilis a sugar daddy, and um, he
quickly gave me promotions, Iguess is the best way to say it,
because I became one of the topselling New Age authors in the
(08:08):
world over 70 books in 38languages that I thought were
reflecting God's angels, and Iwas horrified when I found out
they weren't.
But the point is, I thought Iwas doing good work and I wasn't
.
But at the same time, I was astudent of world religions.
I was a universalist whobelieved that all paths led to
(08:30):
God in heaven, and so I wouldlisten to Christian radio as
well as Hindu and Buddhist andShaman and Celtic all these
different speakers.
I thought they were allspeaking the same thing with
different terminology, and so Iwas listening to Alistair Begg,
as I often did, in January 2015.
(08:52):
And he started doing anexegetical sermon on 1 Timothy
2.4, which was in the end times.
People will want their itchingears tickled by false teachers
and Dwan.
He described a false teacher asif he was describing me, and it
was the first time in my lifethat I've had conviction.
(09:14):
The Holy Spirit used that thatsermon.
It's called itching ears, ifanyone wants to look it up.
2015 at truth for life.
And I went home because I hadheard this in the car and I said
to my husband you know, there'ssomething here.
We need to check this out.
We need to go to a real church,because we've been going to new
age churches.
(09:34):
We need to read the Bible.
My husband agreed, so that tookus on a two-year journey of
trying to find a soliddenomination.
At that time, we lived inHawaii, which has a lot of
paganism, a great deal of NewAge influence, and to try and
find a solid church there waschallenging.
So we went to many differentchurches, but we were reading
(09:56):
the Bible through there.
And at the end of 2017, the HolySpirit just convicted me to
salvation when I readDeuteronomy 18, 10 through 12,
which is God speaking throughMoses to the Israelites as
they're about to cross theJordan River and go into Canaan,
and God was telling them to notbe like the Canaanites, the
(10:20):
pagans, and to not sacrificetheir daughters and sons.
Of course, I was pro-life thiswhole time, so that didn't
relate to me, but what did wasthat he said those who practice
mediumship which I did those whopractice fortune-telling,
divination which I did those whointerpret omens and signs which
I did that said that the peoplewho do that not just the
(10:44):
practices, but the people thatdo these things are a detestable
abomination to God.
And, duann, you could haveknocked me off my chair with a
feather because I had no ideathat I was a detestable
abomination to God until thatvery moment when the Holy Spirit
revealed that to me and I goton my knees right then and I
(11:07):
said to God I did not know, Idid not know.
I probably did know, but I hada hard heart before then, and so
I was just in tears and I wasjust so grieved because I had
taught people all these heresiesand blasphemies and I had all
these books out there and I hademployees and my family was
(11:28):
employed in the new age and Iwas like, what do I do?
How do I do rectify this?
But I but I, at that pointwhere I realized that I was not
in control like I thought I wasbefore, then I said I, I lord
jesus, take over my life.
I obviously don't know what I'mdoing.
And that's when I became bornagain and it was, oh, it's just
(11:51):
a mirror, it's a miracle,because, um, I was a complete
heretic and blasphemer andfornicator and adulterer, and
every the 10 commandments youknow, you name them.
I broke them all and I wasteaching others to do it too.
Unfortunately, other peoplecontinue to sell some of my old
products, even though I've soclearly asked them not to, and I
(12:13):
can't afford, like a team oflawyers, to get them all down.
But my products were notself-published or I would have
pulled them off immediately.
So since day one of being bornagain, I've been on social media
just ple.
I can smell the reek of new agedeception, where a lot of
(12:40):
cradle Christians can't see itand those of us who come out of
deception we can just spot it.
So there's new age deceptiongoing into the church like crazy
, and so I've tried to be like awatchman on the wall and sound
the alarm for those who haveears to hear.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah, so let's get into some of those new age
practices that are coming to thechurch and just in our lives in
general as people.
So the first one would bemanifesting visualization.
Tell us a little about that.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah, so I call it the lie of attraction, not the
law of attraction.
And this again is where you'reputting yourself in the driver's
seat and it's designed to hookpeople who are desperate for
money, basically because it saysthat if you will just visualize
money, it'll come to you.
I mean, it's complete word offaith, prosperity, gospel, but
(13:36):
it hooks Christians who are indesperate times and who maybe it
seems like their prayers.
There's a delay and we reallyneed to trust that the Lord
knows our needs and will providefor our needs Maybe not our
wants, probably not our wants,but our needs.
And so if there's any timewhere you're given a formula
(13:57):
that you can get God to bend toyour will and speed up your
prayers, that's witchcraft andthat is an abomination that is
completely condemned in theBible.
No matter how many professingnice-looking Christians tell you
to do the law of attraction,they might give you case studies
that this worked.
Tell you to do the law ofattraction and they might give
(14:18):
you case studies that thisworked.
You know, a lot of things inthe New Age do work, just like
the sorcerers and Pharaoh'scourt and Exodus.
It worked for a degree.
They couldn't.
They could mimic God's miraclesto a degree, and so can demons.
They can make you feel better,they can seem to lift your ego,
they can seem to bring you moneyand such, but it's an illusion.
It's a mirage that willdisappear and it will hook you
(14:41):
in and lead you away from thereal, the real God, our triune,
god, father, son and Holy spirit.
It will lead you away fromsolid church and solid theology.
It'll lead you away from theBible.
It is not worth any amount ofmoney, any relationship, any job
.
It's nothing's worth.
From the Bible.
It is not worth any amount ofmoney, any relationship, any job
.
It's nothing's worth.
Following the law of attraction.
I'm someone who used it.
(15:03):
It teaches fake it till youmake it.
It teaches you know spend as ifyou have.
And I did that and I'm still indebt for that because it'll
just teach you to act likeyou're rich.
And I did.
I was making a lot of money inthe new age, but I was spending
(15:25):
more than I was making, like arock star does, and it's just a
trap.
Don't fall into the secret.
The law of attractionvisualizing.
There's no such thing as visionboards and Habakkuk 2.2, even
though there's a lady on YouTubesaying that that's absolute
scripture twisting and I prayshe rep, repents and there's
nothing about being in chargeyourself.
Instead, we're exhorted totrust in the lord with all of
our heart and lay not on our ownunderstanding right.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, I think sometimes you know we want to be
in control, but god is incontrol and you know, he knows,
he has foresight, he he'ssovereign, he knows everything
beforehand.
So I think it's important thatwe learn to trust him and not
try to put our own thing.
We can control thing.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Amen.
Yeah, what really convicted mewas the book of Job, the last
few chapters, when God's talkingto Job and in essence God says
where were you when I made theheavens?
Where were you when I made theheavens?
Where were you when I made theocean?
And as I was reading that, Iwas like, oh yeah, I can't.
I can't speak a word and createthe stars like God did.
Only God can do that.
I needed to be humbled likethat.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Right, yeah, and we all do, reminded of that.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
You know from time to time, god's in control, all
right, so next one that I didn'tknow would be yoga, oh, yeah,
yeah, for a season, my husbandand I were members of an
Episcopalian church which wasvery liberal and they had a yoga
studio on the church campus,and so I thought it was okay at
(16:50):
that time, until I starteddigging into the roots, which do
matter, of yoga.
Yoga itself is a word from anancient Eastern language called
Sanskrit, and yoga means yoke,and it's talk about unequally
yoked.
When you're in yoga, you'rebeing yoked to their Hindu
creator, god Brahma, and and Iget all kinds of pushback for
(17:13):
this one, and I know you mighttoo for me even saying this,
because people will say but I goto holy yoga and we don't, we
don't, yeah, we don't, we don'tworship Hindu gods, we're
stretching, and, and the thingis that stretching is a good
idea.
I mean, it is natural, it'shelpful.
I stretch every night before Igo to bed, but yoga poses are
(17:33):
very precise, and there's aseries of yoga poses called sun
salutation that even theso-called Christian yoga
practices involve, and it'sabout standing up and opening
your arms and saluting the sun,which is, of course.
Romans 1 says we're not toworship the creation but the
creator Right.
(17:54):
We're told in the Bible toglorify God in everything we do,
and Paul says twice to glorifyGod with our bodies.
Now let me just say this thisis this is kind of shocking
truth.
There's a pose in the sunsalutation series called warrior
, and there's three versionswarrior one, two and three.
In Sanskrit it's calledVairabhadrasana, and asana means
(18:18):
pose, and it is the pose ofVairabhadras, who's a Hindu
warrior, demon who was amurderer.
And so when you're doingwarrior one, two and three,
you're acting out a Hindu murderscene with your body.
That's supposed to glorify God.
How could that glorify God whenyou're acting as if you're
Virabhadras, who's a demon?
(18:39):
It's impossible, and so I stillget pushback from people.
I'm not thinking of murder, I'mnot thinking of Hindu gods.
I'm listening to worship musicand we're saying scriptures.
We're doing this.
Well, that's rebelliousness,you guys.
That's absolute rebelliousness,and the Bible says that we are
not to drink at the same tableas demons, and that's what we're
(19:03):
doing with yoga.
There's ways to stretch that donot involve the sun salutation
series, that do not involvetaking your body and mimicking
Hindu deities or animals, whichalmost every yoga pose is.
I mean, think about shavasana,which is the end of a yoga
practice where you're layingdown.
It's kind of like inkindergarten we took naps, and
(19:25):
shavasana means corpse pose,dead person pose, and during
that time the yoga instructorusually guides you through a
meditation.
And in a secular yoga classthey have you to say Sanskrit
such as Om, which is a hereticalstatement, that about the
universe, or Namaste, which iseven worse, which is saying that
(19:47):
God within me recognizes andhonors the God within you, small
g God, and so it's polytheism,and so I would not step on a
yoga mat, no matter what youpaid me today.
It's absolute blasphemy, it'snot glorifying a God and it
violates the first and secondcommandment.
We shall have no other godsbefore me and no graven images.
(20:10):
You're making your body agraven image if you are doing
yoga poses.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
I didn't know all that.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Wow, yeah, it's bad, and I've interviewed former.
I have a video.
If anyone wants it, they canwrite me on Instagram, I'll send
it.
I have a former so-called holyyoga teacher.
She until the Holy Spiritconvicted her that you can't mix
Christianity with paganism.
And so she had her kids, herlittle kids, doing yoga with her
(20:39):
and they immediately startedhaving bedwetting and nightmares
and having trouble focusing ontheir schoolwork.
And when she took them out ofyoga, they went back to focusing
again.
And then I have another videoabout what yoga does to kids.
It seems to make them peacefulfor a season, but it also then
leads to spiritual warfare.
(20:59):
That's seen in your kids Again.
Nightmares, really badnightmares, bedwetting and a
lack of focus.
So do not let your kids getinto yoga, even if you have to
fight your school board, becausea lot of schools have yoga in
them and that's just absolutelywrong on every level yeah, I
think you know, as christians wetry to, you know, make, make
(21:20):
things good, but you know, onlygod can turn bad situations into
good situations.
We can't no, I mean.
People all the time are tryingto argue that it's like when
paul says that the meat that wasconsecrated in pagan temples
was redeemed.
This is not the same, you know.
Pa also said if it causes abrother to stumble, I would not
eat meat or drink the wine, andso this could cause someone to
(21:43):
stumble.
If a Christian is going to yogaand someone who's a baby
Christian or an unsaved personsees you going to yoga and
thinks it's okay, they could getinto the pipeline of the false
teachings very easily that way.
The other thing to know is thatyou can't redeem a pagan
practice.
If I said here's my Ouija board, which everyone knows a Ouija
(22:06):
board is satanic.
I mean, even new agers won'ttouch it and I said but look, I
pasted Bible verses on my Ouijaboard and look, I'm playing the
Psalms to music while I'm usingmy Ouija board, so it's a
Christian Ouija board.
You guys would all laugh at me.
But it's the same thing withtrying to make the Enneagram to
be Christian, yoga to beChristian.
(22:26):
There's even witches who arecalling themselves Christian
witches or Christian Reikiministers.
You can't just put the wordChristian in front of a pagan
practice and automatically makeit magically Christian.
It doesn't work that way.
There are two opposites.
The Christianity, as we've beensaying, glorifies God alone,
where paganism glorifies self.
(22:47):
You can see I get worked upabout this because I was 59
years old when I was saved andyou know, I've been there, done
that through the new age, and alot of 20 year olds come at me
and they're, they're trying toteach me that, oh, it's okay,
and I'm like you haven't beenthere, done that, like me, girl.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, well, I think it's important for for us to
know the contrast.
You know, we try to make thingswork just to make it work, when
we're not supposed to be doingthat.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Yeah, all right, so next would be automatic writing
channeling.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, yeah, so automatic writing was how I was
so prolific in the new age.
I had 70 books, as I mentioned,and I this is just, I can
barely say this, but at the time, because people said my work
was comforting to them, theysaid it worked.
I called myself God's secretary.
I know I I was, I would, Iwould go into what's now called
(23:47):
contemplative prayer and I wouldsit quietly.
It's like Eastern meditation,not the biblical meditation
that's in Joshua 1 and Psalm 1.
This was where you focus onyourself, not God's law, and you
focus on yourself and youlisten for a message.
And I would ask the Holy Spiritfor messages.
I didn't even know who thisHoly Spirit really was.
(24:08):
I had a New Age version of HolySpirit.
It was not biblical, so I'd askfor messages and then I would
get messages again that wouldnot pass 1 John 4, because they
did not at all confess Jesusbiblically, and a lot of the
message I got would say that theBible's corrupted by the Roman
Catholic Church and Constantine,which is not true.
(24:30):
It couldn't even be truehistorically on the timeline,
and that Jesus was an ascendedmaster who was a wish granter.
I mean just horrible messageslike that.
But you know what A lot ofpeople who get into new age are
doing it to search for healingand validation of self.
Many of the women that I metover my 22 years in the new age
(24:52):
they were abuse survivors.
They had been abused aschildren, abandoned.
They'd had really bad marriages, drug addiction, all sorts of
trauma in their life, and Ithink a lot of them were trying
to help the trauma they feltthrough feel-good methods, told
(25:17):
me they had left eitherCatholicism or Protestantism
because they felt like it madethem feel guilty and worse about
themselves there.
But I mean, that's the bad newsof the gospel we have to know
that we're wretched sinners.
In order to know we needrepentance and our Savior and
Lord Jesus Christ.
So it's interesting they wouldrun to this kind of sugar-coated
message that will make you feelgood over here, We'll lift you
(25:38):
up and it does for a little time, but, but it's followed by a
crash and it never gives you thepeace that Jesus only can offer
.
So one of the popular, you know,automatic writing book is jesus
calling uh-huh yep yeah yeah,and we pray for sarah young to
(26:00):
be convicted and to repent,because she's doing a lot of
damage in the, in the body.
Um, again, the episcopalianchurch.
I was in the female priest,which that's rebellion.
Um, she was highly recommendingjesus calling.
But even back then I had thediscernment that this is not
biblical.
Sarah Young's Jesus Calling, onthe surface, for those who do
(26:24):
not know God's Word, seems to be.
It could be a devotional, it'sa substitute for Bible study.
And I really see that morewomen get their theology from
Jesus Calling than they do fromGod's Word, which is absolutely
a tragedy.
So Jesus Calling paints Jesusas an ego-stroking, almost like
a boyfriend, almost romantic,that he's your coach, he's your
(26:47):
champion, you can do it, you cando no wrong.
And at the bottom of each pageshe has the scripture notation.
So it might say Matthew 3, 18,or it might say John 4, 10, but
it doesn't have the actual wordsof that scripture, just the
notation.
And people have told me thatthey feel safe because of that,
because they think it'sChristian.
But if they would actually lookup those verses on each page
(27:10):
they would see it completely hasnothing to do with her
channeling.
The other thing is Sarah Young.
She changes what supposed Jesussays with almost every printing
of Jesus Calling.
If you're to compare the firstprinting with the latest
printing, you'll see she altershis words.
And how could that be?
I mean, jesus is the sameyesterday, today and forever.
(27:32):
He doesn't change what he says.
She also has Jesus saying thingsthat contradict what he says in
the Bible, and one of them isthe ego stroking.
Jesus never stroked anyone'sego.
He did say that John theBaptist was the greatest among
those who were born of a woman,but he never patted Peter on the
(27:53):
back and goes oh, peter, you'reso great and one day you're
going to be in charge of thischurch.
He said on this rock I willbuild the church.
But he didn't say Peter, you'regreat.
He didn't.
He called him out all the time.
So any any channeling likeJesus calling or the Enneagram
that tries to elevate you is isabsolutely a big red flag that
(28:16):
we need to mark and avoid right,yeah, and then next would be
positive affirmations yeah,again, this comes from um abuse
survivors who are desperate tofeel good about themselves.
So I toured and I was publishedby louise hay, who's known as
the Grand Dame, or thegrandmother of positive
(28:38):
affirmations, and yeah, she'spassed since.
So she would take, basically wewould all take Genesis 1-2-6
that says that we were made inthe image and likeness of God,
and then just run with that andskip over the fall of Genesis 3.
And we would say I'm perfect,whole and complete, that God
(28:59):
doesn't make any junk.
So therefore, since I'm made inGod's image, I'm wonderful,
like God, and we would affirmthis and we would use that as
evidence that the evangelicalchurches were wrong when they
called us sinners.
In the New Age you're taughtthat and this is the law of
attraction you're taught that ifyou think or say a negative
(29:23):
word or phrase that you willattract negativity, you'll
attract really bad situationsAgain, putting you in charge
instead of God.
And so if someone says to youthat you're a sinner, the New
Ager is going to say that'snegative, I'm not going to
listen to you or I'll havesomething bad happen to me.
If you say there's the devil ordemons, again the New Agers
(29:46):
will shut down on you and sayyou're being negative.
And so the devil is basicallyTeflon-coated New Agers to the
gospel, unfortunately, and ittakes a supernatural work of the
Holy Spirit to convict theheart of a new ager that, yeah,
you're a sinner.
And for me it was reading theBible.
For many people, like how RayComfort does evangelizing, it's
(30:09):
listing the 10 commandments, andthey're still for today, and
saying have you ever lied?
Have you ever stolen?
Have you ever had lustfulthoughts?
You are.
You're under God's wrath then.
But see, in the new age we onlyfocused on John saying God is
love, and then we had ourdefinition that love what meant?
All inclusive.
(30:30):
And so you know, didn't Jesuseat with the tax collectors and
the prostitutes?
He must have loved themunconditionally too.
We didn't pay attention toJesus saying collectors and the
prostitutes he must have lovedthem unconditionally too.
We didn't pay attention toJesus saying go and sin no more.
We thought that Jesus just saideverything you do is fine as
long as you stay positive, andwe were just completely off the
mark with the false gospel.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Yeah, and then one that I didn't realize is psychic
readings and then propheticwords.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yeah, they're the same thing.
In fact, when I was firstcoming out of the New Age, I was
signing up for a class tobecome a certified prophetess
because I had been a psychic inthe New Age and I thought, well,
I'll just be a Christianprophetess.
You know same thing, and I'msure Bethel Church would have
welcomed me and I probably wouldhave been one of Bethel's stars
(31:21):
.
But praise the Lord for havingme stay in the Word and seeing
that the biblical prophets havenothing to do with the people
called prophets today at all,who are giving you a word.
I went through seminary for twoyears, two and a half years,
and I got a master's in biblicaland theological studies 56
units and I got highest honorsnot to brag, but it's just a
(31:45):
test to God giving me a newheart and a biblical worldview.
And so we had to study andwrite papers on each one of the
minor and major prophets, andall of them were calling people
to repentance.
Every one of them were callingpeople back to God's covenant
and also giving eschatologicalend times, warnings and curses
(32:07):
and blessings.
The so-called prophets of todayare like psychics they don't
tell people to repent.
I've never heard that.
They also the biblical prophets.
In Deuteronomy, god says thatsomeone who's speaking for him
will be 100% accurate or theyshall be stoned to death.
And the prophets today?
(32:29):
They excuse themselves forbeing not accurate.
So, anyway, the prophets todayare all ego strokers, like I was
in the new age, telling peoplehow they're going to get their
soulmate or a job promotion andand their so-called life purpose
, which is always a career,instead of what the bible says,
(32:52):
that our life purpose is toglorify god yeah, it seems like
a lot of these is focused on theself, you know, and not us
being focused on glorifying God,because it's not supposed to be
about us.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
We're supposed to be surrendering our lives to God
and then, you know, glorifyinghim.
He says love God and then loveothers.
It didn't have the you know theself in there.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so true.
And, of course, when we glorifyself, we get into pridefulness,
and we know that pride goesbefore a fall.
So the law of attraction, byhaving us become prideful and
covetous, actually sets us upfor the so-called negativity
that it says it's going toprotect us from.
And besides that, the New Agehas a phobia of negativity and
(33:40):
the phobia itself is negative,but nobody ever talks about that
.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Right, they want to stay on the positive.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yeah, but their positive is not reality and it's
definitely not biblicalworldview.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Well, doreen, thank you for being on the show.
You've enlightened me as far assome new age practices that
I've heard about haven'tparticipated in but heard about,
so I know a little bit moreabout it.
I'm grateful that you're on theshow today.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Thank you, Joanne.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
It's been great to meet you, sis it's important for
us, as a christian, to bediscerning our discernment comes
from the holy spirit and theword of god.
(34:30):
So studying and understandinggod's word helps us to know god,
and when we hear or seesomething that is false, the
Holy Spirit can prompt us withthe word of God that we know.
So the Holy Spirit will helpguide us to discern those truths
that are the truths that aretrue and those things that are
(34:51):
false.
So I hope this conversationwith Doreen Virtue was helpful
to you and to help you thinkabout some new age practice you
may or may not have heard of, oryou may or may not have known
that they were new age practices, and I hope you would
reconsider practicing thesethings, because it goes against
(35:13):
the things God commands us to dothat are in his word, the
things God commands us to dothat are in his word.
So until next time, rememberGod is always good and he's
always faithful.
Thank you for listening to thepodcast.
Do me a favor by following thepodcast and leaving a review to
help spread the word.
I look forward to hearing fromyou.
Welcome to Faithfully Living, the Podcast, where we
learn how to live for Christ inour daily lives.
I'm Dwan, your host, and I wouldlike to invite you on a journey
with me to explore and learnhow to be a faithful follower of
Christ.
Hi everyone, welcome toFaithfully Living, the Podcast,
(00:42):
where we strive to encourage youto live for Christ faithfully
by offering guidance on studyingthe Bible, how to understand
the Bible better and how toremain faithful to historic
Christianity in a contemporarysociety.
What do positive and negative,energy abundance, positive
affirmations, yoga, the law ofattraction, vision boards, karma
, manifesting, psychic readings,sage spirit guides, the
universe all have in common?
Well, they're all new Agepractices.
(01:03):
The New Age movement is acounterfeit philosophy that
appeals to the feelings ofindividuals and leads them to
think that they are God and canenhance their lives through
their own person.
So the New Age movement isslowly inching its way into our
(01:25):
daily lives, and we often mightnot have realized it.
The New Age seems to offercomfort, sometimes it gives
accurate information and helpfuladvice, peace and sometimes
even success.
In reality, it's identical towhat the serpent told Eve in the
garden and Jesus in thewilderness.
(01:47):
So today is a replay of theconversation that I've had with
Doreen Virtue.
We discuss being discerning ofthe various new age practices
that we might see in ourday-to-day life.
All right, here is myconversation with Doreen.
So before I get started, let metell you a little bit about
(02:18):
Doreen.
Doreen Virtue was formerly thetop-selling New Age author at
the top New Age publisher, hayHouse.
She toured the world giving NewAge workshops and appearing on
Oprah, cnn, the View and othershows.
Doreen didn't think there wasanything wrong with the New Age
(02:39):
because she was raised inChristian science and she didn't
understand the gospel, nor hadshe read the whole Bible.
She had paranormal experiencesthroughout her life and she
thought that she thought werefrom God and angels.
She also thought that she wasfollowing Jesus, but it turned
(03:01):
out to be the false Jesus.
Was following Jesus, but itturned out to be the false Jesus
.
In January 2015, doreen heard aradio program about engine ears
and false prophets by AlistairBeck that pierced her heart.
Soon after, doreen and herhusband began going to church.
Through God's grace and theirfaith in Jesus Christ as their
(03:22):
Lord and Savior, doreen andMichael left the New Age in 2017
and were born again Christians.
Doreen holds a Master's inBiblical and Theological Studies
from Russian Seminary, as wellas a BA and MA degrees in
(03:43):
Counseling psychology fromChapman University.
She is the author of Deceive noMore how Jesus Led Me Out of
the New Age and Into His Word,published by Thomas Nelson.
All right, here is myconversation with Doreen.
Hi, doreen, welcome to the showFaithfully Living.
(04:06):
I'm glad you're here.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Thank you for having me on Dwan.
It's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
So I am doing a series on standing strong,
knowing what the Bible says whenculture tells us something
different.
And I know I want my audienceto know what is the new age and
how it's become a part of ourlives without sometimes us
knowing and knowing that youhave been in the new age and
(04:36):
kind of knowing what's allinvolved.
So I wanted to kind of talkabout some topics that influence
our lives.
But before we get into that, Iwant to know how you became a
follower of Christ and yourjourney up until now.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Well, thank you.
It's only by God's grace andmercy, through my faith in Jesus
as our Lord and Savior, that Iam saved, today, that I'm a
born-again, absolute,bible-believing Christian.
It's a miracle.
It's the last thing I expected.
It was completely God's willand I thought I was a Christian.
Is the thing about it?
Because I was raised in a falsegospel church that I didn't
(05:14):
know was false gospel, calledChristian Science, which is
neither Christian nor scientific, and my mom told us we were
Christians.
We went to church twice a week.
I was reading the King Jamesbecause it was a King James
version only as church, verylegalistic, and I was reading
the Bible since I was like sixor seven and so I always thought
(05:36):
I was Christian.
But the thing was I didn't havethe parameters of the gospel.
I didn't know who God was, Ididn't know who Jesus or the
Holy Spirit were, and withoutthat knowledge and that
relationship with them it's tooeasy to go astray.
So I did.
I became a psychotherapist witha BA and an MA in psychology
(05:57):
from Chapman University and thenfrom there I just kind of went
apostate.
I think psychology just givesyou a license to go into
mysticism and experientialismand me-centered.
It's very self-oriented andwhen you're focusing on yourself
all the time, gosh, the devilhas a playground, and he did
with me.
He masqueraded as an angel oflight, which I thought I was
(06:17):
getting messages from.
I thought it was ArchangelMichael and I was, unfortunately
, a worker of inequity beingused by the devil as a
mouthpiece.
When I thought I was helpingpeople, I really thought that I
was doing God's work, becausethere's angels in the Bible and
people told me my work comfortedthem.
It seemed to work, it seemed tobe accurate, but it was
(06:40):
pointing people away from Jesusand the Bible.
What I was doing failed the testof the spirits that the Apostle
John gives us in 1 John 4,whether we confess Jesus
biblically or not, and I did not.
I was a part of the New Agemovement that saw Jesus as a
mortal man who was a goodteacher, a good role model, who
(07:00):
was here to teach us about loveand peace from a secular view of
those words, and that he wasnow basically in heaven helping
us.
And it's so blasphemous.
But I thought of him as awish-granter, almost like a
genie back then, which I'verepented for, and that's what I
see in the New Age is a termthat means taking a little bit
(07:24):
from different cultures anddifferent religions and mixing
them together, but it's allself-focused.
It's all about glorifyingyourself, where Christianity
glorifies only God, and the NewAge also is about putting
yourself in the driver's seatfor the will of what's to happen
.
New age teaches you that you cancontrol your future, you can
(07:45):
control your destiny, which isludicrous because we know that
only god is in control right,yeah, and so continue with your
yeah well, I mean I, I the devilis a sugar daddy, and um, he
quickly gave me promotions, Iguess is the best way to say it,
because I became one of the topselling New Age authors in the
(08:08):
world over 70 books in 38languages that I thought were
reflecting God's angels, and Iwas horrified when I found out
they weren't.
But the point is, I thought Iwas doing good work and I wasn't
.
But at the same time, I was astudent of world religions.
I was a universalist whobelieved that all paths led to
(08:30):
God in heaven, and so I wouldlisten to Christian radio as
well as Hindu and Buddhist andShaman and Celtic all these
different speakers.
I thought they were allspeaking the same thing with
different terminology, and so Iwas listening to Alistair Begg,
as I often did, in January 2015.
(08:52):
And he started doing anexegetical sermon on 1 Timothy
2.4, which was in the end times.
People will want their itchingears tickled by false teachers
and Dwan.
He described a false teacher asif he was describing me, and it
was the first time in my lifethat I've had conviction.
(09:14):
The Holy Spirit used that thatsermon.
It's called itching ears, ifanyone wants to look it up.
2015 at truth for life.
And I went home because I hadheard this in the car and I said
to my husband you know, there'ssomething here.
We need to check this out.
We need to go to a real church,because we've been going to new
age churches.
(09:34):
We need to read the Bible.
My husband agreed, so that tookus on a two-year journey of
trying to find a soliddenomination.
At that time, we lived inHawaii, which has a lot of
paganism, a great deal of NewAge influence, and to try and
find a solid church there waschallenging.
So we went to many differentchurches, but we were reading
(09:56):
the Bible through there.
And at the end of 2017, the HolySpirit just convicted me to
salvation when I readDeuteronomy 18, 10 through 12,
which is God speaking throughMoses to the Israelites as
they're about to cross theJordan River and go into Canaan,
and God was telling them to notbe like the Canaanites, the
(10:20):
pagans, and to not sacrificetheir daughters and sons.
Of course, I was pro-life thiswhole time, so that didn't
relate to me, but what did wasthat he said those who practice
mediumship which I did those whopractice fortune-telling,
divination which I did those whointerpret omens and signs which
I did that said that the peoplewho do that not just the
(10:44):
practices, but the people thatdo these things are a detestable
abomination to God.
And, duann, you could haveknocked me off my chair with a
feather because I had no ideathat I was a detestable
abomination to God until thatvery moment when the Holy Spirit
revealed that to me and I goton my knees right then and I
(11:07):
said to God I did not know, Idid not know.
I probably did know, but I hada hard heart before then, and so
I was just in tears and I wasjust so grieved because I had
taught people all these heresiesand blasphemies and I had all
these books out there and I hademployees and my family was
(11:28):
employed in the new age and Iwas like, what do I do?
How do I do rectify this?
But I but I, at that pointwhere I realized that I was not
in control like I thought I wasbefore, then I said I, I lord
jesus, take over my life.
I obviously don't know what I'mdoing.
And that's when I became bornagain and it was, oh, it's just
(11:51):
a mirror, it's a miracle,because, um, I was a complete
heretic and blasphemer andfornicator and adulterer, and
every the 10 commandments youknow, you name them.
I broke them all and I wasteaching others to do it too.
Unfortunately, other peoplecontinue to sell some of my old
products, even though I've soclearly asked them not to, and I
(12:13):
can't afford, like a team oflawyers, to get them all down.
But my products were notself-published or I would have
pulled them off immediately.
So since day one of being bornagain, I've been on social media
just ple.
I can smell the reek of new agedeception, where a lot of
(12:40):
cradle Christians can't see itand those of us who come out of
deception we can just spot it.
So there's new age deceptiongoing into the church like crazy
, and so I've tried to be like awatchman on the wall and sound
the alarm for those who haveears to hear.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah, so let's get into some of those new age
practices that are coming to thechurch and just in our lives in
general as people.
So the first one would bemanifesting visualization.
Tell us a little about that.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah, so I call it the lie of attraction, not the
law of attraction.
And this again is where you'reputting yourself in the driver's
seat and it's designed to hookpeople who are desperate for
money, basically because it saysthat if you will just visualize
money, it'll come to you.
I mean, it's complete word offaith, prosperity, gospel, but
(13:36):
it hooks Christians who are indesperate times and who maybe it
seems like their prayers.
There's a delay and we reallyneed to trust that the Lord
knows our needs and will providefor our needs Maybe not our
wants, probably not our wants,but our needs.
And so if there's any timewhere you're given a formula
(13:57):
that you can get God to bend toyour will and speed up your
prayers, that's witchcraft andthat is an abomination that is
completely condemned in theBible.
No matter how many professingnice-looking Christians tell you
to do the law of attraction,they might give you case studies
that this worked.
Tell you to do the law ofattraction and they might give
(14:18):
you case studies that thisworked.
You know, a lot of things inthe New Age do work, just like
the sorcerers and Pharaoh'scourt and Exodus.
It worked for a degree.
They couldn't.
They could mimic God's miraclesto a degree, and so can demons.
They can make you feel better,they can seem to lift your ego,
they can seem to bring you moneyand such, but it's an illusion.
It's a mirage that willdisappear and it will hook you
(14:41):
in and lead you away from thereal, the real God, our triune,
god, father, son and Holy spirit.
It will lead you away fromsolid church and solid theology.
It'll lead you away from theBible.
It is not worth any amount ofmoney, any relationship, any job
.
It's nothing's worth.
From the Bible.
It is not worth any amount ofmoney, any relationship, any job
.
It's nothing's worth.
Following the law of attraction.
I'm someone who used it.
(15:03):
It teaches fake it till youmake it.
It teaches you know spend as ifyou have.
And I did that and I'm still indebt for that because it'll
just teach you to act likeyou're rich.
And I did.
I was making a lot of money inthe new age, but I was spending
(15:25):
more than I was making, like arock star does, and it's just a
trap.
Don't fall into the secret.
The law of attractionvisualizing.
There's no such thing as visionboards and Habakkuk 2.2, even
though there's a lady on YouTubesaying that that's absolute
scripture twisting and I prayshe rep, repents and there's
nothing about being in chargeyourself.
Instead, we're exhorted totrust in the lord with all of
our heart and lay not on our ownunderstanding right.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, I think sometimes you know we want to be
in control, but god is incontrol and you know, he knows,
he has foresight, he he'ssovereign, he knows everything
beforehand.
So I think it's important thatwe learn to trust him and not
try to put our own thing.
We can control thing.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Amen.
Yeah, what really convicted mewas the book of Job, the last
few chapters, when God's talkingto Job and in essence God says
where were you when I made theheavens?
Where were you when I made theheavens?
Where were you when I made theocean?
And as I was reading that, Iwas like, oh yeah, I can't.
I can't speak a word and createthe stars like God did.
Only God can do that.
I needed to be humbled likethat.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Right, yeah, and we all do, reminded of that.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
You know from time to time, god's in control, all
right, so next one that I didn'tknow would be yoga, oh, yeah,
yeah, for a season, my husbandand I were members of an
Episcopalian church which wasvery liberal and they had a yoga
studio on the church campus,and so I thought it was okay at
(16:50):
that time, until I starteddigging into the roots, which do
matter, of yoga.
Yoga itself is a word from anancient Eastern language called
Sanskrit, and yoga means yoke,and it's talk about unequally
yoked.
When you're in yoga, you'rebeing yoked to their Hindu
creator, god Brahma, and and Iget all kinds of pushback for
(17:13):
this one, and I know you mighttoo for me even saying this,
because people will say but I goto holy yoga and we don't, we
don't, yeah, we don't, we don'tworship Hindu gods, we're
stretching, and, and the thingis that stretching is a good
idea.
I mean, it is natural, it'shelpful.
I stretch every night before Igo to bed, but yoga poses are
(17:33):
very precise, and there's aseries of yoga poses called sun
salutation that even theso-called Christian yoga
practices involve, and it'sabout standing up and opening
your arms and saluting the sun,which is, of course.
Romans 1 says we're not toworship the creation but the
creator Right.
(17:54):
We're told in the Bible toglorify God in everything we do,
and Paul says twice to glorifyGod with our bodies.
Now let me just say this thisis this is kind of shocking
truth.
There's a pose in the sunsalutation series called warrior
, and there's three versionswarrior one, two and three.
In Sanskrit it's calledVairabhadrasana, and asana means
(18:18):
pose, and it is the pose ofVairabhadras, who's a Hindu
warrior, demon who was amurderer.
And so when you're doingwarrior one, two and three,
you're acting out a Hindu murderscene with your body.
That's supposed to glorify God.
How could that glorify God whenyou're acting as if you're
Virabhadras, who's a demon?
(18:39):
It's impossible, and so I stillget pushback from people.
I'm not thinking of murder, I'mnot thinking of Hindu gods.
I'm listening to worship musicand we're saying scriptures.
We're doing this.
Well, that's rebelliousness,you guys.
That's absolute rebelliousness,and the Bible says that we are
not to drink at the same tableas demons, and that's what we're
(19:03):
doing with yoga.
There's ways to stretch that donot involve the sun salutation
series, that do not involvetaking your body and mimicking
Hindu deities or animals, whichalmost every yoga pose is.
I mean, think about shavasana,which is the end of a yoga
practice where you're layingdown.
It's kind of like inkindergarten we took naps, and
(19:25):
shavasana means corpse pose,dead person pose, and during
that time the yoga instructorusually guides you through a
meditation.
And in a secular yoga classthey have you to say Sanskrit
such as Om, which is a hereticalstatement, that about the
universe, or Namaste, which iseven worse, which is saying that
(19:47):
God within me recognizes andhonors the God within you, small
g God, and so it's polytheism,and so I would not step on a
yoga mat, no matter what youpaid me today.
It's absolute blasphemy, it'snot glorifying a God and it
violates the first and secondcommandment.
We shall have no other godsbefore me and no graven images.
(20:10):
You're making your body agraven image if you are doing
yoga poses.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
I didn't know all that.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Wow, yeah, it's bad, and I've interviewed former.
I have a video.
If anyone wants it, they canwrite me on Instagram, I'll send
it.
I have a former so-called holyyoga teacher.
She until the Holy Spiritconvicted her that you can't mix
Christianity with paganism.
And so she had her kids, herlittle kids, doing yoga with her
(20:39):
and they immediately startedhaving bedwetting and nightmares
and having trouble focusing ontheir schoolwork.
And when she took them out ofyoga, they went back to focusing
again.
And then I have another videoabout what yoga does to kids.
It seems to make them peacefulfor a season, but it also then
leads to spiritual warfare.
(20:59):
That's seen in your kids Again.
Nightmares, really badnightmares, bedwetting and a
lack of focus.
So do not let your kids getinto yoga, even if you have to
fight your school board, becausea lot of schools have yoga in
them and that's just absolutelywrong on every level yeah, I
think you know, as christians wetry to, you know, make, make
(21:20):
things good, but you know, onlygod can turn bad situations into
good situations.
We can't no, I mean.
People all the time are tryingto argue that it's like when
paul says that the meat that wasconsecrated in pagan temples
was redeemed.
This is not the same, you know.
Pa also said if it causes abrother to stumble, I would not
eat meat or drink the wine, andso this could cause someone to
(21:43):
stumble.
If a Christian is going to yogaand someone who's a baby
Christian or an unsaved personsees you going to yoga and
thinks it's okay, they could getinto the pipeline of the false
teachings very easily that way.
The other thing to know is thatyou can't redeem a pagan
practice.
If I said here's my Ouija board, which everyone knows a Ouija
(22:06):
board is satanic.
I mean, even new agers won'ttouch it and I said but look, I
pasted Bible verses on my Ouijaboard and look, I'm playing the
Psalms to music while I'm usingmy Ouija board, so it's a
Christian Ouija board.
You guys would all laugh at me.
But it's the same thing withtrying to make the Enneagram to
be Christian, yoga to beChristian.
(22:26):
There's even witches who arecalling themselves Christian
witches or Christian Reikiministers.
You can't just put the wordChristian in front of a pagan
practice and automatically makeit magically Christian.
It doesn't work that way.
There are two opposites.
The Christianity, as we've beensaying, glorifies God alone,
where paganism glorifies self.
(22:47):
You can see I get worked upabout this because I was 59
years old when I was saved andyou know, I've been there, done
that through the new age, and alot of 20 year olds come at me
and they're, they're trying toteach me that, oh, it's okay,
and I'm like you haven't beenthere, done that, like me, girl.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, well, I think it's important for for us to
know the contrast.
You know, we try to make thingswork just to make it work, when
we're not supposed to be doingthat.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Yeah, all right, so next would be automatic writing
channeling.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, yeah, so automatic writing was how I was
so prolific in the new age.
I had 70 books, as I mentioned,and I this is just, I can
barely say this, but at the time, because people said my work
was comforting to them, theysaid it worked.
I called myself God's secretary.
I know I I was, I would, Iwould go into what's now called
(23:47):
contemplative prayer and I wouldsit quietly.
It's like Eastern meditation,not the biblical meditation
that's in Joshua 1 and Psalm 1.
This was where you focus onyourself, not God's law, and you
focus on yourself and youlisten for a message.
And I would ask the Holy Spiritfor messages.
I didn't even know who thisHoly Spirit really was.
(24:08):
I had a New Age version of HolySpirit.
It was not biblical, so I'd askfor messages and then I would
get messages again that wouldnot pass 1 John 4, because they
did not at all confess Jesusbiblically, and a lot of the
message I got would say that theBible's corrupted by the Roman
Catholic Church and Constantine,which is not true.
(24:30):
It couldn't even be truehistorically on the timeline,
and that Jesus was an ascendedmaster who was a wish granter.
I mean just horrible messageslike that.
But you know what A lot ofpeople who get into new age are
doing it to search for healingand validation of self.
Many of the women that I metover my 22 years in the new age
(24:52):
they were abuse survivors.
They had been abused aschildren, abandoned.
They'd had really bad marriages, drug addiction, all sorts of
trauma in their life, and Ithink a lot of them were trying
to help the trauma they feltthrough feel-good methods, told
(25:17):
me they had left eitherCatholicism or Protestantism
because they felt like it madethem feel guilty and worse about
themselves there.
But I mean, that's the bad newsof the gospel we have to know
that we're wretched sinners.
In order to know we needrepentance and our Savior and
Lord Jesus Christ.
So it's interesting they wouldrun to this kind of sugar-coated
message that will make you feelgood over here, We'll lift you
(25:38):
up and it does for a little time, but, but it's followed by a
crash and it never gives you thepeace that Jesus only can offer
.
So one of the popular, you know,automatic writing book is jesus
calling uh-huh yep yeah yeah,and we pray for sarah young to
(26:00):
be convicted and to repent,because she's doing a lot of
damage in the, in the body.
Um, again, the episcopalianchurch.
I was in the female priest,which that's rebellion.
Um, she was highly recommendingjesus calling.
But even back then I had thediscernment that this is not
biblical.
Sarah Young's Jesus Calling, onthe surface, for those who do
(26:24):
not know God's Word, seems to be.
It could be a devotional, it'sa substitute for Bible study.
And I really see that morewomen get their theology from
Jesus Calling than they do fromGod's Word, which is absolutely
a tragedy.
So Jesus Calling paints Jesusas an ego-stroking, almost like
a boyfriend, almost romantic,that he's your coach, he's your
(26:47):
champion, you can do it, you cando no wrong.
And at the bottom of each pageshe has the scripture notation.
So it might say Matthew 3, 18,or it might say John 4, 10, but
it doesn't have the actual wordsof that scripture, just the
notation.
And people have told me thatthey feel safe because of that,
because they think it'sChristian.
But if they would actually lookup those verses on each page
(27:10):
they would see it completely hasnothing to do with her
channeling.
The other thing is Sarah Young.
She changes what supposed Jesussays with almost every printing
of Jesus Calling.
If you're to compare the firstprinting with the latest
printing, you'll see she altershis words.
And how could that be?
I mean, jesus is the sameyesterday, today and forever.
(27:32):
He doesn't change what he says.
She also has Jesus saying thingsthat contradict what he says in
the Bible, and one of them isthe ego stroking.
Jesus never stroked anyone'sego.
He did say that John theBaptist was the greatest among
those who were born of a woman,but he never patted Peter on the
(27:53):
back and goes oh, peter, you'reso great and one day you're
going to be in charge of thischurch.
He said on this rock I willbuild the church.
But he didn't say Peter, you'regreat.
He didn't.
He called him out all the time.
So any any channeling likeJesus calling or the Enneagram
that tries to elevate you is isabsolutely a big red flag that
(28:16):
we need to mark and avoid right,yeah, and then next would be
positive affirmations yeah,again, this comes from um abuse
survivors who are desperate tofeel good about themselves.
So I toured and I was publishedby louise hay, who's known as
the Grand Dame, or thegrandmother of positive
(28:38):
affirmations, and yeah, she'spassed since.
So she would take, basically wewould all take Genesis 1-2-6
that says that we were made inthe image and likeness of God,
and then just run with that andskip over the fall of Genesis 3.
And we would say I'm perfect,whole and complete, that God
(28:59):
doesn't make any junk.
So therefore, since I'm made inGod's image, I'm wonderful,
like God, and we would affirmthis and we would use that as
evidence that the evangelicalchurches were wrong when they
called us sinners.
In the New Age you're taughtthat and this is the law of
attraction you're taught that ifyou think or say a negative
(29:23):
word or phrase that you willattract negativity, you'll
attract really bad situationsAgain, putting you in charge
instead of God.
And so if someone says to youthat you're a sinner, the New
Ager is going to say that'snegative, I'm not going to
listen to you or I'll havesomething bad happen to me.
If you say there's the devil ordemons, again the New Agers
(29:46):
will shut down on you and sayyou're being negative.
And so the devil is basicallyTeflon-coated New Agers to the
gospel, unfortunately, and ittakes a supernatural work of the
Holy Spirit to convict theheart of a new ager that, yeah,
you're a sinner.
And for me it was reading theBible.
For many people, like how RayComfort does evangelizing, it's
(30:09):
listing the 10 commandments, andthey're still for today, and
saying have you ever lied?
Have you ever stolen?
Have you ever had lustfulthoughts?
You are.
You're under God's wrath then.
But see, in the new age we onlyfocused on John saying God is
love, and then we had ourdefinition that love what meant?
All inclusive.
(30:30):
And so you know, didn't Jesuseat with the tax collectors and
the prostitutes?
He must have loved themunconditionally too.
We didn't pay attention toJesus saying collectors and the
prostitutes he must have lovedthem unconditionally too.
We didn't pay attention toJesus saying go and sin no more.
We thought that Jesus just saideverything you do is fine as
long as you stay positive, andwe were just completely off the
mark with the false gospel.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Yeah, and then one that I didn't realize is psychic
readings and then propheticwords.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yeah, they're the same thing.
In fact, when I was firstcoming out of the New Age, I was
signing up for a class tobecome a certified prophetess
because I had been a psychic inthe New Age and I thought, well,
I'll just be a Christianprophetess.
You know same thing, and I'msure Bethel Church would have
welcomed me and I probably wouldhave been one of Bethel's stars
(31:21):
.
But praise the Lord for havingme stay in the Word and seeing
that the biblical prophets havenothing to do with the people
called prophets today at all,who are giving you a word.
I went through seminary for twoyears, two and a half years,
and I got a master's in biblicaland theological studies 56
units and I got highest honorsnot to brag, but it's just a
(31:45):
test to God giving me a newheart and a biblical worldview.
And so we had to study andwrite papers on each one of the
minor and major prophets, andall of them were calling people
to repentance.
Every one of them were callingpeople back to God's covenant
and also giving eschatologicalend times, warnings and curses
(32:07):
and blessings.
The so-called prophets of todayare like psychics they don't
tell people to repent.
I've never heard that.
They also the biblical prophets.
In Deuteronomy, god says thatsomeone who's speaking for him
will be 100% accurate or theyshall be stoned to death.
And the prophets today?
(32:29):
They excuse themselves forbeing not accurate.
So, anyway, the prophets todayare all ego strokers, like I was
in the new age, telling peoplehow they're going to get their
soulmate or a job promotion andand their so-called life purpose
, which is always a career,instead of what the bible says,
(32:52):
that our life purpose is toglorify god yeah, it seems like
a lot of these is focused on theself, you know, and not us
being focused on glorifying God,because it's not supposed to be
about us.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
We're supposed to be surrendering our lives to God
and then, you know, glorifyinghim.
He says love God and then loveothers.
It didn't have the you know theself in there.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so true.
And, of course, when we glorifyself, we get into pridefulness,
and we know that pride goesbefore a fall.
So the law of attraction, byhaving us become prideful and
covetous, actually sets us upfor the so-called negativity
that it says it's going toprotect us from.
And besides that, the New Agehas a phobia of negativity and
(33:40):
the phobia itself is negative,but nobody ever talks about that
.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Right, they want to stay on the positive.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yeah, but their positive is not reality and it's
definitely not biblicalworldview.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Well, doreen, thank you for being on the show.
You've enlightened me as far assome new age practices that
I've heard about haven'tparticipated in but heard about,
so I know a little bit moreabout it.
I'm grateful that you're on theshow today.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Thank you, Joanne.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
It's been great to meet you, sis it's important for
us, as a christian, to bediscerning our discernment comes
from the holy spirit and theword of god.
(34:30):
So studying and understandinggod's word helps us to know god,
and when we hear or seesomething that is false, the
Holy Spirit can prompt us withthe word of God that we know.
So the Holy Spirit will helpguide us to discern those truths
that are the truths that aretrue and those things that are
(34:51):
false.
So I hope this conversationwith Doreen Virtue was helpful
to you and to help you thinkabout some new age practice you
may or may not have heard of, oryou may or may not have known
that they were new age practices, and I hope you would
reconsider practicing thesethings, because it goes against
(35:13):
the things God commands us to dothat are in his word, the
things God commands us to dothat are in his word.
So until next time, rememberGod is always good and he's
always faithful.
Thank you for listening to thepodcast.
Do me a favor by following thepodcast and leaving a review to
help spread the word.
I look forward to hearing fromyou.
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