August 10, 2024 • 42 mins
Have you ever stood at the crossroads of faith, questioning where the truth lies amid a sea of doctrines? Well join me in a conversation with Cynthia Hampton, where we illuminate the contrasting beliefs between historic Christianity and the teachings of groups like the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, New Thought and New Age movements. We dive a little into their origins and how they offer an alternative spiritual path than that of historic Christianity. Let, this discussion inspire you to learn more about what you believe as a Christian. Hopefully, this episode provides a pathway to strength and support within the Christian community, emphasizing the importance of small group studies, a solid grasp of apologetics, and a deep dive into false doctrines.
Check out these Resources
Women in Apologetics https://womeninapologetics.com/
The Kingdom of the Cults by Walter Ralston Martin
Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry https://carm.org/
Do you want to learn how to study the Bible? Check out the YouTube channel Faithfullyliven youtube.com/@faithfullyliven
Do you want to read about how to live faithfully? Check out the blog http://lyfe102.org
Get a free Road Map to get started learning how to study the Bible https://mailchi.mp/88f9c9405da0/bible-study-road-map
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Faithfully Living, the Podcast, where we
learn how to live for Christ inour daily lives.
I am Dwan, your host, and Iwould like to invite you on a
journey with me to explore andlearn how to be a faithful
follower of Christ.
Hey everyone, welcome toFaithfully Living the Podcast,
(00:25):
where we strive to encourage youto live for Christ faithfully
by offering guidance on how tostudy the Bible, how to
understand the Bible better andhow to remain faithful to
historic Christianity in acontemporary society.
So you know, as believers, weneed and should be discerning
about the various doctrinesaround us in the world today.
(00:47):
You know many of them don'tmatch the historic Christian
beliefs that we hold, but how doyou know and how do you tell
the difference between them?
Well, in this episode I talkwith Cynthia Hampton about
(01:09):
recognizing cultic counterfeitteachings.
So stay tuned for thisconversation.
But before we get started, letme tell you a little bit about
Cynthia.
Cynthia is an accountant in theLos Angeles County Office of
Education.
She earned her BS in accountingfrom the University of Phoenix
and was a church treasurer for14 years.
She also facilitated a supportgroup for ex-Jehovah Witnesses
(01:32):
in California to help them healfrom the effects of cult mind
control and to refute theWatchtower Doctrines.
Cynthia Hampton is a formerJehovah Witness who left the
cult when she was 24.
Two years later she became aChristian when she realized that
the Watchtower was a falseteacher and a false prophet.
(01:56):
Her moment of revelation camewhen the Watchtower stated that
Jesus Christ was the mediatorfor only 144,000 anointed
Jehovah Witnesses, as theWatchtower teaches that only
144,000 will go to heaven.
Cynthia and our husband Davidcurrently live in California.
(02:17):
They have three grown marriedchildren and five grandchildren.
All right, let's dive intotoday's episode.
Hi Cynthia, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Hi, thank you very much.
I'm really glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Great.
So let's, before we dive intoour topic, tell me a little bit
about yourself.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Well, I'm a mother and wife and grandmother
currently, and I have threegrown children and I have five
granddaughters and I volunteerfor Women in Apologetics.
I am their treasurer and I havebeen with them since 2017.
(03:06):
I also have a background incults because I was a Jehovah's
Witness for part of my life.
My mother converted to theJehovah's Witnesses when we were
all kids, and I think I was 13when my mother started to study
with the Jehovah's Witnesses andthen she started taking us to
the Kingdom Hall.
Shortly after that and I gotinvolved with it myself.
(03:30):
I became baptized as aJehovah's Witness.
I got married.
It was an abusive marriage.
I got out of the Jehovah'sWitnesses when I was 24.
I went back to school and Imoved to California.
When I moved to California, Ifound this radio show on
(03:51):
Christian radio called the BibleAnswer man with Walter Martin,
who wrote Kingdom of the Cults.
And although I had startedgoing to church and I had become
a Christian, I wasn't veryknowledgeable about the cults
and I didn't understand whyJehovah's Witnesses were wrong.
(04:12):
I knew they were wrong, but Ididn't know everything about
them because I hadn't found outeverything yet.
So when I started listening tothis radio show.
I heard him talking aboutJehovah's Witnesses and I'm like
this guy is right.
This guy is right, he knowswhat he's talking about.
And so I started to listenfaithfully every day, got his
(04:33):
book Kingdom of the Cults, andfrom then on I started kind of
on a path down, studyingapologetics as much as I could,
studying, um, you know, churchhistory, uh, learning how to
defend the faith, learning aboutcults, you know, I learned not
only about Jehovah's witnesses.
(04:54):
I learned about Mormons, Ilearned about new age, I learned
about new thought, I learnedabout a lot of other kind of
fringy type of cult religionsthat had been, you know, popping
up, that were really weird, and, and so that's been my, my, my
biggest interest is, you know,you know, from becoming a
(05:17):
Christian, learning how todefend the Christian faith
against cults and other aberranttype of teachings.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Right.
So let's kind of like dive intothat, because you know you
touched on like there's manydifferent cults in our world
today and it's important to knowas believers, for us to know,
like, what we believe and why webelieve it and we should be
(05:49):
discerning, you know, know aboutthose different kind of cults,
so kind of take us through, like, what does authentic
christianity?
Teach versus some of thosecults out there.
So maybe start with jehovah'switnesses.
What's the difference betweenwhat they believe and what
Christianity believes?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Well, jehovah's Witnesses believe in something
called the faithful and discreetslave, and they take this out
of context in Matthew 24, 45,where Jesus says you know who is
, you know we.
In most of our Bibles it sayswho is the faithful and wise
servant, who, you know, giveshis followers the food at the
(06:25):
proper time.
And so what?
They've taken this and they'vebuilt a doctrine around it
saying that their organizationor their organizational leaders
are the faithful and discreetslave, and so you, as a
Jehovah's Witness, would have toobey their leaders.
So all the doctrines that comeout of the Watchtower
(06:47):
organization come, in theirperspective, it might as well
come from God, from Jehovahhimself.
So this is part of it.
It's almost this idolatryaround this faithful and
discreet slave, as they call it.
Not only that, but they don'taccept the Trinity or the deity
(07:11):
of Christ.
They believe in soul sleep.
They believe 144,000 of theirorganization, or what they say
is early Christians plusJehovah's Witnesses, will be
going to heaven and that will bethe government kind of like.
(07:32):
You know, like Washington DC isour government, the United
States, with senators andcongressmen and stuff like that.
So they believe that thesepeople will be disembodied
spirits in heaven forever.
You know doing the governing.
You know, and the rest ofjehovah's witnesses will live on
this paradise earth.
(07:52):
You know, underneath, you knowthe, this organizational heaven
as, as they, you know, believeit to be, so um, there, and
there is no um, there's no hopein jehovah's witnesses.
You're, you're, you're confinedto this um, high control group
(08:14):
and, and that's the way you'regoing to find a lot of cults is,
uh, they, they control yourlife completely.
You know some, not jehovah'switnesses, but I know there are
some cults that you know.
Do you know they?
They give you permission as towho you're going to marry, or
yeah, or some, some cults havearranged marriages, but
(08:36):
Jehovah's Witnesses don't.
But there there is a lot ofhigh control in their
organization.
So, and that's you know, one ofthe biggest factors you'll find
among cults is, you know, thehigh control aspect of, you know
the leader, or theirorganizational leaders.
(08:58):
You know making sure that theycontrol every aspect of their
lives.
So when I was a Jehovah'sWitness, we had to turn in time
every week.
So, as you know, jehovah'sWitnesses go from door to door,
or they used to.
I think they still do, but theydon't do as much anymore.
(09:23):
But when, when I was a witness.
They went door-to-door a lotand and so what you'd have to do
was you would fill out a timesheet every week letting your
elders know um, how, how manyhours you spent out going
door-to-door out placingmagazines and books and stuff
like that.
And so everybody who turns intheir time sheets, you know, is
(09:47):
a good person according to them.
They they make sure thateverybody's turning in time.
If you don't turn in time, thenthey kind of mark you as
inactive and they want to knowwhy you're not turning in time
and so you kind of get marked assomeone who's inactive.
So that's one of the aspects oftheir high control, plus going
(10:10):
to you know a lot of meetingsthat they have.
They have their Sunday talk andtheir watchtower study, and
then during the week they studyfrom one of their publications
and one of their books.
So they make it so your lifejust totally revolves around
this organization and doingthings for your organization.
(10:30):
Another thing that they do isthey've taken away holidays,
birthdays, so that if you havenon-JW family who celebrate
birthdays and holidays and stufflike that, you no longer
(10:50):
associate with them and theystop asking you to come to their
birthdays and holidaycelebrations because, as a
Jehovah's Witnesses won'tcelebrate a birthday because
it's a pagan celebration andthey'll bring up in the Bible
that you know.
There's only two recordedinstances of birthdays that
(11:14):
happen in the Bible, one beingJohn the Baptist, and he had his
head chopped off.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
And so they said you know, birthdays are bad, so and
then, so holidays are also bad,because they, they believe that,
you know, all holidays arepagan.
And if they're not religiousholidays, if they are national
holidays like, oh, Fourth ofJuly, you know, Independence Day
, or something like that, youknow they say, well, you're not
(11:46):
supposed to celebrate anythinghaving to do with the government
, because they think thegovernment is the beast.
So they don't have anycelebrations you know with other
people in the family.
So it's just like they separateyou you know from, from your
family or your friends.
(12:06):
So all your friends have to bejehovah's witnesses.
So this is kind of uh,indicative of how you know not
the same, not the same um way.
But it does happen in othercults where they do try to
separate you from um your familyand other friends who aren't in
(12:28):
that cult, and so they get youto just associate with them only
, so everybody else outsidetheir cult is of the world and
is of Satan.
So you don't want to associatewith them, is of the world and
is of Satan.
So you don't want to associatewith them.
And it's only your group, underthe authority of your leader,
(12:48):
that is, that that is approved.
So that's, that's how it works.
You know, in cults Mormons kindof the same way you find that
Mormons also, everythingrevolves around the Mormon
church and you'll find that alot of Mormon people probably
own their own businesses.
A lot of them are verysuccessful.
(13:09):
So you know, and then they hireother Mormons to work for them
and you know, if you're a Mormonand you are kind of like caught
up in this thing where you knowyou've been brought up Mormon,
your family's Mormon, you workfor a Mormon and then all of a
sudden you don't want to be aMormon anymore.
You may lose your job.
You know your family's going tothink you're crazy.
(13:32):
There's a lot of negative thingsthat can happen from that.
So, as in other cults as well,you know, once you step out and
then there are some very otherdangerous cults, you know, you,
once you step out and then thereare some very other dangerous
cults, you know, once you stepout, I mean they can make life
really miserable for you, reallymiserable.
Some will seek you out.
(13:54):
They will um, um, they will,you know, harass you and other
things.
You know they don't let youleave it's.
It's like like a hotel,california.
You can check it anytime youlike, but you can never leave.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Oh wow, make it that way.
That's kind of scary thoughyeah, it is yeah, well, what
about some things like newthought or new age?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Well, new thought and new age isn't a cult, okay, but
it's kind of a way of thinkingwhere you're not in a
high-control organization andI've noticed a lot of ex-cult
members will gravitate towardnew thought or new age because
it's very eclectic and you canbasically believe what you want
(14:48):
and um, like, for example, in innew age.
You know they get intomeditations and you know yoga
and some of sometimes it's youknow, occultic and a lot of.
I know a lot of ex-witnessesget into wicca and and stuff
like that.
So there's no real organizationabout it.
(15:09):
I think that's what they like.
It is kind of like thedisorganized thing about it is
you can do whatever you want.
You know the new age has thecrystals and you know they.
They can, you know, basically,you know, do what they want to
do.
New thought, you know, isn't anorganization either, but there
(15:30):
are several organizations thatkind of um came down the pike
because, uh, because of newthought reasoning, um, let's see
, it was Phineas Quimby who cameup with a lot of their
philosophy and that kind of madeitself into the Christian
(15:59):
science group because Mary Baker, eddy, was one of Quimby's
followers.
So you got, you know, theChristian science group that you
know came about from that inthe 1800s and you know, in which
you know the Christian scienceisn't Christian and it's not
science either.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Right yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
You know, most of it is just, it's just, it's just a
new thought way of teaching us,and new thought is so eclectic.
Also, you know, it's just sortof you know you kind of you have
to like imagine yourself.
You know where he believed inanimal magnetism and and in this
animal magnetism you weresupposed to like concentrate and
(16:53):
, you know, to get what you wantin life.
And you know just sort of youknow visualize it.
Um, I remember at home growingup, because my family was kind
of into this new age and newthought too, before they were
witnesses, especially my dad,and we had some books on
visualization.
You know you could just lie downand start visualizing the
(17:15):
things that you want, you know,or the things that you plan to
do in life.
You know your vision for yourlife and so it's not really
following God or anything likethat and Jesus has nothing to do
with it, although they'll say,okay, yeah, you know, if you're,
you know, a new thought person,you know you can have whatever
you want.
You can have Jesus, you canhave Krishna, you could have
(17:38):
Buddha.
Any of these things are okay,just like a new age.
A lot of it overlaps too.
You know you can have buddha.
You know you could have new agejesus.
You could have anything youwant, yeah, and so none of that
leads to any kind of truth.
Though you know it's, there'sno truth with it.
(17:59):
It's just sort of going on yourfeelings, and we know you.
You know our feelings deceiveus, and you know what we need
are facts.
And where do we get our facts?
You know we have to looktowards scripture.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
You know, to get our facts, yeah, that's definitely
our source of truth as far asyou know what is right and wrong
, Because it's God's moralstandard for our lives.
So what would be, what would besome common tactics or
(18:41):
strategies that cult members useto like manipulate their
followers?
I think you talked about it alittle bit here use to like,
manipulate their followers.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
I think you talked about it a little bit here.
Well, there is something, umthat, uh, steve Hassan came up
with and he wrote a book calledcalled mind control.
Um, and uh, it's called thebite model.
You know so, um, what they dois.
You know they be.
You know they control your,your, your behavior.
So if you don't, um, if youdon't toe the line with them and
(19:08):
behave the way they want you tobehave, you can get in a lot of
trouble with them.
So they control your behavior.
Um, there's also informationcontrol and so, um, for example,
you know, as a jehovah'switness, we weren't allowed to
really read outside things or doother research.
We were only to believe whatcame out in the pages of the
(19:31):
Watchtower and theirpublications.
So they were trying to controlthe amount of information that
we received.
So we weren't allowed toquestion the information that
they gave us, because sometimes,you know we would.
You know, if you went and didresearch, you might find
(19:52):
conflicting information.
As far as their belief system,you know like they, you know
they claim to be.
You know the.
At one time they were claimingto be a prophet, the um.
At one time they were claimingto be a prophet and uh, you know
, and because they've made so,many false prophecies.
You know, of course, they are afalse prophet, not a, not a true
(20:13):
prophet.
So you know they control yourinformation.
Uh, the next letter being tthey control your thoughts.
Um, a lot of a lot of this hasto do with fears and phobias.
So if you even think aboutwhether or not something might
(20:34):
be true or not within the cult,you know they teach you how to
do like a thought stoppingtechnique.
You know, I don't know ifyou've ever talked to somebody
in a cult, you know, such assuch as Jehovah's Witnesses or
Mormons, and you can almost seeit.
You know, once you startbringing out certain truths to
them, that will make themuncomfortable, and then, when
(20:57):
they start to get uncomfortable,you can almost see it in their
eyes and you can see it in theirum, in just the way they carry
themselves.
They don't want to talk aboutit anymore.
Just boom, they take a left turnand they will change the
subject oh, wow so you know they, they use this thought stopping
technique and it mainly comesfrom the, you know, because
(21:19):
their thoughts are beingcontrolled by the organization
in a way.
You know, so to speak, they'renot supposed to think about
things that they shouldn't thinkabout.
You know, oh, wow, yeah.
And then the other one is Eemotion, and the organizations,
or the cult organizations, willcontrol their emotions.
(21:41):
It's like, how does that work?
You know Right, and yeah, howdoes that work?
You know Right and yeah, howdoes that work that I remember,
for an example, with Jehovah'sWitnesses.
They don't show very muchemotion and if you go to a
funeral of Jehovah's Witnesses,you won't see anybody crying or
(22:02):
upset or anything like that, youknow, showing any kind of
emotion.
And they're even told, you know, you don't need to be crying or
showing any kind of emotionbecause they say they believe in
the resurrection and everything.
But even as a Christian and Ibelieve in the resurrection-
when I go to a funeral.
I'm sad that I'm not going tosee that person.
You know, in fact I'm going toa funeral tomorrow and it's a
(22:28):
son of a good friend of ours andI know I know the family and
they're very sad that the sonhas passed away.
And you know how can you nothave feelings like that?
But, when you're in a cult, knowit's?
It's like they manipulate youremotions so that's like you feel
nothing.
They don't want you to havefeelings.
(22:50):
They don't want you to havehave uh emotions, uh that will
make you feel like a real person.
So it's almost like they keepyou, so that you're uh robotic
that's very interesting how theytry to take over your whole
self.
(23:10):
Right your whole psyche,everything about you.
It's like you're almost beingmanipulated and controlled by
this cult organization becauseyou have to think only their
thoughts, do only what they say.
You know, take in theinformation that they give you
yeah, you don't have.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
You can't think for yourself?
Speaker 2 (23:32):
right, you can't think for yourself at all.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yeah, no thinking allowed yeah, if you start
thinking, you get in troubleexactly.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
You're not allowed to ask questions.
I remember, um, my, my sister'sfriend this is when we were,
you know, uh, teenagers and mysister's friend had a question
that she wanted to ask theelders and she said you know,
this disagrees with what thebible says here, and I don't
remember what it was, but shethought of something and then,
(24:05):
shortly after, theydisfellowshipped her for, I
guess, asking too many questions.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yep, and then you know my sister tried to ask the
same questions as somebody andthen they kind of marked her and
they didn't disfellowship herat that time but she had been an
interpreter for the for thedeaf people.
They took her off of deafinterpretation because she was
asking questions.
So you can't ask questions.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
It's kind of like they're trying to hold a secret
that they don't want you to findout.
The answer to Exactly.
Exactly.
So what can individuals, whatsteps can they take to protect
themselves from like fallingprey to like cultic teachings,
(24:55):
even within the Christiancommunity?
Because sometimes you know,those kind of seep in without us
sometimes knowing orrecognizing them?
Speaker 2 (25:04):
sometimes knowing or recognizing them.
Yeah, you know, and a lot offalse teachings have infiltrated
the church.
You know just, not just cults,but you know just weird.
You know teachings that are,you know, with aberrant beliefs
and I find that a lot ofChristians don't really know
(25:24):
their Bible all that well andyou know they need to get into
deep.
You know bible study andunderstand scripture.
Uh, do study and you knowhere's a good 25 cent word for
everyone hermeneutics understandthe culture that you know
scripture was written in.
(25:45):
Understand the historicalsignificance, understand who is
the writer and who are theywriting to.
You know and why.
So you have to understand allthese things in order to
understand scripture.
So you have to know that Inorder to understand scripture,
so you have to know that.
You know you have to.
(26:05):
You know read books on.
You know apologetics I mean,there's so many good resources
out there.
You know in Christianapologetics, so that you can
(26:26):
understand.
You know, you know thecounterfeit and false from from
the truth.
So, um, if, if my mother hadknown anything about the Bible,
we had never gotten involvedwith Jehovah's Witnesses because
she didn't know anything aboutthe Bible.
You know, we were Catholic, butmy mother never, never, read
the Bible.
We had this big Bible in thehouse.
It was huge, it was like a big,huge Bible and but she never
(26:47):
read it.
And then, when she startedstudying with Jehovah's
Witnesses because she'd neverread her Bible she thought what
the Jehovah's Witnesses weretelling her were true.
She thought all those thingswere true and she had no way to
(27:08):
refute it.
So, you know, sometimes we hearthings and then sometimes our
um conscience or our our spiritwill say this is, this is wrong.
You know, and if somethingmight be a red flag or seems
untrue, then research it.
You know, and if you're comingup against a cult or a false
teacher, you know, it's so easyto look someone up online, you
(27:31):
know, and research the history.
I mean, you know, back when Iwas young, we didn't have the
internet and, and so I actuallyhad to go to the library and
look it up and library and startresearching, and that's how I
got myself out of the cult mindcontrol.
But the best thing to do isfirst know scripture.
(27:52):
Second, do your research, doyour homework.
Something sounds kind of crazy.
It probably is, it probably is,and you know, look up, look up
(28:15):
the history of, of, of thechurch that you know you might
be thinking of joining, or youknow, because it could be a cult
, and it's called she calls itthe good news mission.
I think it's a korean cult andanyway, she was telling me how
high control it was and that youknow, if you're in there, all
your marriage, all the marriagesare arranged.
(28:36):
You're not allowed to.
You know, marry the person youwant, they arrange marriages,
everything, and it's a veryhyper calvinism.
You know, and, uh, she's kindof like does, has done what I
have done with jehovah'switnesses.
You know, she's kind of like aperson who helps people out of
this cult.
So, um, which I thought wasvery interesting, and now she
(28:59):
goes to a christian, a goodchristian church.
So, um, you just have to learnthe differences between you know
the lie and you know where isthe truth and be able to compare
it.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah, like biblical literacy is something that's, I
think, needed today, because notmany people know their bibles
as well as they should, so it'seasier for them to to fall into.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
you know different beliefs if they don't know what
the bible says exactly, yeah, um, it it's, and I find a lot of
christians get fooled by a lotof um.
You know, false teaching.
You know, uh, over at ourwomen's Bible study the other
night, you know we were talkingabout the.
(29:50):
You know NAR.
You know New ApostolicReformation, and you know people
didn't know what that was andwe were also talking about.
You know, know, some of theprosperity um gospel, you know
that, you know, is out there andyou know, one lady says well,
what about?
What about?
(30:11):
Um, oh, now, I can't rememberthe name.
It's a female.
Um, oh, not beth moore, not her.
Um, oh, gosh, and her face isin my head too.
I can see her face.
Uh, she's been around for quitea while.
Um, it's on the tip of mytongue.
(30:34):
I'm sorry, I don't know if youcould think of a female one, but
anyway, others, this, this,this woman has published a lot
of books.
She's been very popular inchristian circles and I've tried
to warn women.
Uh, this is a prosperityteacher that she's.
This woman has published a lotof books.
She's been very popular inChristian circles and I've tried
to warn women this is aprosperity teacher.
She's not.
She's not.
This is not sound doctrine.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
This is the prosperity gospel, yeah, and I
think too also I think you mighthave mentioned this too Like if
you do know the Bible, the HolySpirit can prompt you to know
oh, this doesn't line up withScripture If you know the truth,
so.
So how can Christians have ahealthy dialogue with people who
(31:22):
have different beliefs andcults?
How can we talk to them?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Well, the first thing is you don't want to just come
out and attack their beliefs,start it on Jehovah's Witnesses
and start naming off all theirfalse prophecies and their false
teachings and say see, this iswhere the Bible says.
And then you know they're goingto walk off faster than you can
(31:51):
believe, so they're going to begone.
Or if you start telling Mormonsoh you know, joseph Smith's a
false prophet, here are all yourfalse teachings they're not
going to want to stand there andlisten to you.
So one of the methods that aperson might use is just to ask
thoughtful questions, you know,that are non-threatening.
(32:11):
You know, like, tell me aboutthe history of your, but where
did it start?
It was the founder and why didthey find?
How did they found theorganization?
And you know who were the firstleaders, what did they teach?
You know, and would I be ableto look at their teachings and
(32:36):
compare it against?
You know the Bible.
You know, and you know whatwould you do if you found
teachings in your church or yourorganization if it conflicted
against the Bible?
What would you do?
Would you take that yourorganization's teachings as true
(32:58):
or the Bible is true?
You know, so you try to getthem to.
You know, think about whatthey're believing and what you
know.
You might not, you might, youwon't be able to convert them
right there.
Or to say, wow, you know.
I always use the illustration.
They're not going to be like,oh, I could have had a V8.
(33:20):
They're not going to be like,oh, I could have had a V8.
They're not going to be likethat.
It's going to be more of you'replanting seeds.
You're just giving them enoughinformation, as Greg Kokel might
say, to put a stone in theirshoe to make them a little
uncomfortable, but you don'twant to barrage them with all
(33:43):
this information.
You know, just ask thoughtfulquestions and, you know, ask
questions like well, what if youknow this happened?
You know what would be theresult.
You know, ask a lot of what ifsyou know what, and then then
result you know, you know, ask alot of what ifs, you know what,
and then then you know it's.
It's it's more just sort of aprocess of getting them to to
(34:08):
think about what they believeyeah, and hopefully, you know,
get them to think some.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Some of them don't allow them to think, so
hopefully it allows them tothink about what they believe
too.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yeah, and even though they may give you a poker face
or look like they're notinterested or look like it's not
getting through to them, itmight be.
So when they leave, pray forthem, you know, you know.
(34:43):
Pray that God opens up theirheart, softens them up, and that
the Holy Spirit will do hiswork.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Yeah, definitely so, because God can move, because he
, he'll be the one to save them,yes, and not us.
So how can Christiancommunities support people who
have been influenced by culticteachings Like they're believers
, but they somehow adapted,adopted some false teachings in
(35:17):
their thinking?
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Oh, you mean Christians who, like might be in
the church, but yet they have.
So how do we assist them?
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Yes, they have been influenced.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Okay.
So, um, that's a good questionbecause you know, you don't know
who might be influenced.
I think the church needs to doa better job or needs to work on
, you know, getting groupstogether.
You know, for small studies,you know to kind of teach
(35:54):
apologetics and maybe go overaberrant teachings that have
been out there in.
You know, in the church thereare so many false teachings as I
, you know, have mentioned, likeNAR, the prosperity gospel.
I mean people will watch the TVpreachers, you know.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Right.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Okay, so you know there's.
Think, okay, so they'll, youknow there's one.
Can I mention names?
Yes, you can like joel austin,you know, like that they might
watch that.
Or you know and think, oh yeah,well, you know that sounds good
.
So we have to make sure thatpeople are not looking at stuff,
(36:40):
things that just sound good,but they want to look at good
sound doctrine.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Right, yeah, yeah, definitely so.
So what would be like someresources for believers to kind
of equip them to educatethemselves on false teachings,
cults, things like that?
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Well, I guess the first thing I would recommend is
, like Walter Martin's books,you know, Kingdom of the Cults.
It's been updated several timesand you know that is a good
beginner, I think.
Kingdom of the Cults because itgives you a kind of an overview
of a lot of the cults, becauseit gives you a um kind of an
overview of of a lot ofdifferent cults you know,
(37:25):
including java's witnesses ormormons, and and uh, you know a
lot of the other cults that arearound, so you know that.
And I would um also just say toyou know, get some books on
Christian apologetics, you know,and start reading some of those
(37:48):
.
I mean, there's so manyresources out there and websites
also.
You know, if you're there's uh,carm um, there's a website
called carm carm and, uh, youknow it has um a lot, of, a lot
(38:10):
of good write-ups on.
You know a lot of the differentcults and abrid religions and
stuff like that.
So there's just know, juststart looking them up online.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Well, that sounds good.
So, to wrap up the show, whatwould be some encouragement you
could offer believers who wantto live faithfully for Christ?
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Oh boy, encouragement .
Well, you know, find a goodchurch.
You know, find a good churchwith a good pastor.
I'm very blessed to be in anexcellent church right now with
a excellent pastor.
I just love him so much him andhis wife, they're just great
people that he teachesapologetics, his wife teaches,
(38:59):
you know, the women's group andshe does an excellent job
because you know they're justright on the same page.
You know, it's none of thisfluffy stuff right, yeah it's
good, solid teaching, and so getyourself a good church with a
good pastor, the um, and youknow where there's a lot of
bible study, where you can getinvolved, um, and and and just
(39:23):
work from there.
You know, get yourself intosome sort of, uh, small group,
you know, hopefully, um, I don'tknow about everybody's church,
you know, but you know, um,we're we're looking into having
some home groups, you know where, where specific things are
studied.
You know certain biblicaltopics I'm supposed to teach one
(39:46):
on the cults soon and you know,if you have a church like this,
who's really into studying andteaching, that would be the best
thing you know for someone.
You know, if you can't findthat kind of a church, maybe you
could find, you know, teachingonline, you know, so that you
can, you know, do that.
(40:09):
And then you know, of course,I'm in Women in Apologetics.
You know we have a conferenceonce a year.
This year we're having one inNashville.
No-transcript has this kind ofconference.
(40:49):
There are different conferencesacross the country, you know,
with different apologeticsorganizations.
You know Biola University hasdifferent apologetics type
seminars and weekends, and justkeep on the lookout for that and
get yourself into some kind ofseminar or conference where you
(41:13):
can learn, you know, how todefend your faith, mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Yeah Well, cynthia, thank you so much for coming on
the show and helping us learnabout cults and the difference
between you know what we believeas christians and what they
believe um different than us, sothank you for being on the show
.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
It was a pleasure, thank you.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Hey everyone.
So I hope and pray that thisepisode with Cynthia will ignite
your curiosity to dive moreinto cults and compare what they
believe to the core Christianbeliefs.
I've added some of theresources that she mentioned in
the show notes, so go ahead andcheck those out.
Well, until next time time,remember god is always good and
(42:02):
he's always faithful.
Thank you for listening to thepodcast.
Do me a favor by following thepodcast and leaving a review to
help spread the word.
I look forward to hearing fromyou, thank you.
Welcome to Faithfully Living, the Podcast, where we
learn how to live for Christ inour daily lives.
I am Dwan, your host, and Iwould like to invite you on a
journey with me to explore andlearn how to be a faithful
follower of Christ.
Hey everyone, welcome toFaithfully Living the Podcast,
(00:25):
where we strive to encourage youto live for Christ faithfully
by offering guidance on how tostudy the Bible, how to
understand the Bible better andhow to remain faithful to
historic Christianity in acontemporary society.
So you know, as believers, weneed and should be discerning
about the various doctrinesaround us in the world today.
(00:47):
You know many of them don'tmatch the historic Christian
beliefs that we hold, but how doyou know and how do you tell
the difference between them?
Well, in this episode I talkwith Cynthia Hampton about
(01:09):
recognizing cultic counterfeitteachings.
So stay tuned for thisconversation.
But before we get started, letme tell you a little bit about
Cynthia.
Cynthia is an accountant in theLos Angeles County Office of
Education.
She earned her BS in accountingfrom the University of Phoenix
and was a church treasurer for14 years.
She also facilitated a supportgroup for ex-Jehovah Witnesses
(01:32):
in California to help them healfrom the effects of cult mind
control and to refute theWatchtower Doctrines.
Cynthia Hampton is a formerJehovah Witness who left the
cult when she was 24.
Two years later she became aChristian when she realized that
the Watchtower was a falseteacher and a false prophet.
(01:56):
Her moment of revelation camewhen the Watchtower stated that
Jesus Christ was the mediatorfor only 144,000 anointed
Jehovah Witnesses, as theWatchtower teaches that only
144,000 will go to heaven.
Cynthia and our husband Davidcurrently live in California.
(02:17):
They have three grown marriedchildren and five grandchildren.
All right, let's dive intotoday's episode.
Hi Cynthia, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Hi, thank you very much.
I'm really glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Great.
So let's, before we dive intoour topic, tell me a little bit
about yourself.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Well, I'm a mother and wife and grandmother
currently, and I have threegrown children and I have five
granddaughters and I volunteerfor Women in Apologetics.
I am their treasurer and I havebeen with them since 2017.
(03:06):
I also have a background incults because I was a Jehovah's
Witness for part of my life.
My mother converted to theJehovah's Witnesses when we were
all kids, and I think I was 13when my mother started to study
with the Jehovah's Witnesses andthen she started taking us to
the Kingdom Hall.
Shortly after that and I gotinvolved with it myself.
(03:30):
I became baptized as aJehovah's Witness.
I got married.
It was an abusive marriage.
I got out of the Jehovah'sWitnesses when I was 24.
I went back to school and Imoved to California.
When I moved to California, Ifound this radio show on
(03:51):
Christian radio called the BibleAnswer man with Walter Martin,
who wrote Kingdom of the Cults.
And although I had startedgoing to church and I had become
a Christian, I wasn't veryknowledgeable about the cults
and I didn't understand whyJehovah's Witnesses were wrong.
(04:12):
I knew they were wrong, but Ididn't know everything about
them because I hadn't found outeverything yet.
So when I started listening tothis radio show.
I heard him talking aboutJehovah's Witnesses and I'm like
this guy is right.
This guy is right, he knowswhat he's talking about.
And so I started to listenfaithfully every day, got his
(04:33):
book Kingdom of the Cults, andfrom then on I started kind of
on a path down, studyingapologetics as much as I could,
studying, um, you know, churchhistory, uh, learning how to
defend the faith, learning aboutcults, you know, I learned not
only about Jehovah's witnesses.
(04:54):
I learned about Mormons, Ilearned about new age, I learned
about new thought, I learnedabout a lot of other kind of
fringy type of cult religionsthat had been, you know, popping
up, that were really weird, and, and so that's been my, my, my
biggest interest is, you know,you know, from becoming a
(05:17):
Christian, learning how todefend the Christian faith
against cults and other aberranttype of teachings.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Right.
So let's kind of like dive intothat, because you know you
touched on like there's manydifferent cults in our world
today and it's important to knowas believers, for us to know,
like, what we believe and why webelieve it and we should be
(05:49):
discerning, you know, know aboutthose different kind of cults,
so kind of take us through, like, what does authentic
christianity?
Teach versus some of thosecults out there.
So maybe start with jehovah'switnesses.
What's the difference betweenwhat they believe and what
Christianity believes?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Well, jehovah's Witnesses believe in something
called the faithful and discreetslave, and they take this out
of context in Matthew 24, 45,where Jesus says you know who is
, you know we.
In most of our Bibles it sayswho is the faithful and wise
servant, who, you know, giveshis followers the food at the
(06:25):
proper time.
And so what?
They've taken this and they'vebuilt a doctrine around it
saying that their organizationor their organizational leaders
are the faithful and discreetslave, and so you, as a
Jehovah's Witness, would have toobey their leaders.
So all the doctrines that comeout of the Watchtower
(06:47):
organization come, in theirperspective, it might as well
come from God, from Jehovahhimself.
So this is part of it.
It's almost this idolatryaround this faithful and
discreet slave, as they call it.
Not only that, but they don'taccept the Trinity or the deity
(07:11):
of Christ.
They believe in soul sleep.
They believe 144,000 of theirorganization, or what they say
is early Christians plusJehovah's Witnesses, will be
going to heaven and that will bethe government kind of like.
(07:32):
You know, like Washington DC isour government, the United
States, with senators andcongressmen and stuff like that.
So they believe that thesepeople will be disembodied
spirits in heaven forever.
You know doing the governing.
You know, and the rest ofjehovah's witnesses will live on
this paradise earth.
(07:52):
You know, underneath, you knowthe, this organizational heaven
as, as they, you know, believeit to be, so um, there, and
there is no um, there's no hopein jehovah's witnesses.
You're, you're, you're confinedto this um, high control group
(08:14):
and, and that's the way you'regoing to find a lot of cults is,
uh, they, they control yourlife completely.
You know some, not jehovah'switnesses, but I know there are
some cults that you know.
Do you know they?
They give you permission as towho you're going to marry, or
yeah, or some, some cults havearranged marriages, but
(08:36):
Jehovah's Witnesses don't.
But there there is a lot ofhigh control in their
organization.
So, and that's you know, one ofthe biggest factors you'll find
among cults is, you know, thehigh control aspect of, you know
the leader, or theirorganizational leaders.
(08:58):
You know making sure that theycontrol every aspect of their
lives.
So when I was a Jehovah'sWitness, we had to turn in time
every week.
So, as you know, jehovah'sWitnesses go from door to door,
or they used to.
I think they still do, but theydon't do as much anymore.
(09:23):
But when, when I was a witness.
They went door-to-door a lotand and so what you'd have to do
was you would fill out a timesheet every week letting your
elders know um, how, how manyhours you spent out going
door-to-door out placingmagazines and books and stuff
like that.
And so everybody who turns intheir time sheets, you know, is
(09:47):
a good person according to them.
They they make sure thateverybody's turning in time.
If you don't turn in time, thenthey kind of mark you as
inactive and they want to knowwhy you're not turning in time
and so you kind of get marked assomeone who's inactive.
So that's one of the aspects oftheir high control, plus going
(10:10):
to you know a lot of meetingsthat they have.
They have their Sunday talk andtheir watchtower study, and
then during the week they studyfrom one of their publications
and one of their books.
So they make it so your lifejust totally revolves around
this organization and doingthings for your organization.
(10:30):
Another thing that they do isthey've taken away holidays,
birthdays, so that if you havenon-JW family who celebrate
birthdays and holidays and stufflike that, you no longer
(10:50):
associate with them and theystop asking you to come to their
birthdays and holidaycelebrations because, as a
Jehovah's Witnesses won'tcelebrate a birthday because
it's a pagan celebration andthey'll bring up in the Bible
that you know.
There's only two recordedinstances of birthdays that
(11:14):
happen in the Bible, one beingJohn the Baptist, and he had his
head chopped off.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
And so they said you know, birthdays are bad, so and
then, so holidays are also bad,because they, they believe that,
you know, all holidays arepagan.
And if they're not religiousholidays, if they are national
holidays like, oh, Fourth ofJuly, you know, Independence Day
, or something like that, youknow they say, well, you're not
(11:46):
supposed to celebrate anythinghaving to do with the government
, because they think thegovernment is the beast.
So they don't have anycelebrations you know with other
people in the family.
So it's just like they separateyou you know from, from your
family or your friends.
(12:06):
So all your friends have to bejehovah's witnesses.
So this is kind of uh,indicative of how you know not
the same, not the same um way.
But it does happen in othercults where they do try to
separate you from um your familyand other friends who aren't in
(12:28):
that cult, and so they get youto just associate with them only
, so everybody else outsidetheir cult is of the world and
is of Satan.
So you don't want to associatewith them, is of the world and
is of Satan.
So you don't want to associatewith them.
And it's only your group, underthe authority of your leader,
(12:48):
that is, that that is approved.
So that's, that's how it works.
You know, in cults Mormons kindof the same way you find that
Mormons also, everythingrevolves around the Mormon
church and you'll find that alot of Mormon people probably
own their own businesses.
A lot of them are verysuccessful.
(13:09):
So you know, and then they hireother Mormons to work for them
and you know, if you're a Mormonand you are kind of like caught
up in this thing where you knowyou've been brought up Mormon,
your family's Mormon, you workfor a Mormon and then all of a
sudden you don't want to be aMormon anymore.
You may lose your job.
You know your family's going tothink you're crazy.
(13:32):
There's a lot of negative thingsthat can happen from that.
So, as in other cults as well,you know, once you step out and
then there are some very otherdangerous cults, you know, you,
once you step out and then thereare some very other dangerous
cults, you know, once you stepout, I mean they can make life
really miserable for you, reallymiserable.
Some will seek you out.
(13:54):
They will um, um, they will,you know, harass you and other
things.
You know they don't let youleave it's.
It's like like a hotel,california.
You can check it anytime youlike, but you can never leave.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Oh wow, make it that way.
That's kind of scary thoughyeah, it is yeah, well, what
about some things like newthought or new age?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Well, new thought and new age isn't a cult, okay, but
it's kind of a way of thinkingwhere you're not in a
high-control organization andI've noticed a lot of ex-cult
members will gravitate towardnew thought or new age because
it's very eclectic and you canbasically believe what you want
(14:48):
and um, like, for example, in innew age.
You know they get intomeditations and you know yoga
and some of sometimes it's youknow, occultic and a lot of.
I know a lot of ex-witnessesget into wicca and and stuff
like that.
So there's no real organizationabout it.
(15:09):
I think that's what they like.
It is kind of like thedisorganized thing about it is
you can do whatever you want.
You know the new age has thecrystals and you know they.
They can, you know, basically,you know, do what they want to
do.
New thought, you know, isn't anorganization either, but there
(15:30):
are several organizations thatkind of um came down the pike
because, uh, because of newthought reasoning, um, let's see
, it was Phineas Quimby who cameup with a lot of their
philosophy and that kind of madeitself into the Christian
(15:59):
science group because Mary Baker, eddy, was one of Quimby's
followers.
So you got, you know, theChristian science group that you
know came about from that inthe 1800s and you know, in which
you know the Christian scienceisn't Christian and it's not
science either.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Right yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
You know, most of it is just, it's just, it's just a
new thought way of teaching us,and new thought is so eclectic.
Also, you know, it's just sortof you know you kind of you have
to like imagine yourself.
You know where he believed inanimal magnetism and and in this
animal magnetism you weresupposed to like concentrate and
(16:53):
, you know, to get what you wantin life.
And you know just sort of youknow visualize it.
Um, I remember at home growingup, because my family was kind
of into this new age and newthought too, before they were
witnesses, especially my dad,and we had some books on
visualization.
You know you could just lie downand start visualizing the
(17:15):
things that you want, you know,or the things that you plan to
do in life.
You know your vision for yourlife and so it's not really
following God or anything likethat and Jesus has nothing to do
with it, although they'll say,okay, yeah, you know, if you're,
you know, a new thought person,you know you can have whatever
you want.
You can have Jesus, you canhave Krishna, you could have
(17:38):
Buddha.
Any of these things are okay,just like a new age.
A lot of it overlaps too.
You know you can have buddha.
You know you could have new agejesus.
You could have anything youwant, yeah, and so none of that
leads to any kind of truth.
Though you know it's, there'sno truth with it.
(17:59):
It's just sort of going on yourfeelings, and we know you.
You know our feelings deceiveus, and you know what we need
are facts.
And where do we get our facts?
You know we have to looktowards scripture.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
You know, to get our facts, yeah, that's definitely
our source of truth as far asyou know what is right and wrong
, Because it's God's moralstandard for our lives.
So what would be, what would besome common tactics or
(18:41):
strategies that cult members useto like manipulate their
followers?
I think you talked about it alittle bit here use to like,
manipulate their followers.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
I think you talked about it a little bit here.
Well, there is something, umthat, uh, steve Hassan came up
with and he wrote a book calledcalled mind control.
Um, and uh, it's called thebite model.
You know so, um, what they dois.
You know they be.
You know they control your,your, your behavior.
So if you don't, um, if youdon't toe the line with them and
(19:08):
behave the way they want you tobehave, you can get in a lot of
trouble with them.
So they control your behavior.
Um, there's also informationcontrol and so, um, for example,
you know, as a jehovah'switness, we weren't allowed to
really read outside things or doother research.
We were only to believe whatcame out in the pages of the
(19:31):
Watchtower and theirpublications.
So they were trying to controlthe amount of information that
we received.
So we weren't allowed toquestion the information that
they gave us, because sometimes,you know we would.
You know, if you went and didresearch, you might find
(19:52):
conflicting information.
As far as their belief system,you know like they, you know
they claim to be.
You know the.
At one time they were claimingto be a prophet, the um.
At one time they were claimingto be a prophet and uh, you know
, and because they've made so,many false prophecies.
You know, of course, they are afalse prophet, not a, not a true
(20:13):
prophet.
So you know they control yourinformation.
Uh, the next letter being tthey control your thoughts.
Um, a lot of a lot of this hasto do with fears and phobias.
So if you even think aboutwhether or not something might
(20:34):
be true or not within the cult,you know they teach you how to
do like a thought stoppingtechnique.
You know, I don't know ifyou've ever talked to somebody
in a cult, you know, such assuch as Jehovah's Witnesses or
Mormons, and you can almost seeit.
You know, once you startbringing out certain truths to
them, that will make themuncomfortable, and then, when
(20:57):
they start to get uncomfortable,you can almost see it in their
eyes and you can see it in theirum, in just the way they carry
themselves.
They don't want to talk aboutit anymore.
Just boom, they take a left turnand they will change the
subject oh, wow so you know they, they use this thought stopping
technique and it mainly comesfrom the, you know, because
(21:19):
their thoughts are beingcontrolled by the organization
in a way.
You know, so to speak, they'renot supposed to think about
things that they shouldn't thinkabout.
You know, oh, wow, yeah.
And then the other one is Eemotion, and the organizations,
or the cult organizations, willcontrol their emotions.
(21:41):
It's like, how does that work?
You know Right, and yeah, howdoes that work?
You know Right and yeah, howdoes that work that I remember,
for an example, with Jehovah'sWitnesses.
They don't show very muchemotion and if you go to a
funeral of Jehovah's Witnesses,you won't see anybody crying or
(22:02):
upset or anything like that, youknow, showing any kind of
emotion.
And they're even told, you know, you don't need to be crying or
showing any kind of emotionbecause they say they believe in
the resurrection and everything.
But even as a Christian and Ibelieve in the resurrection-
when I go to a funeral.
I'm sad that I'm not going tosee that person.
You know, in fact I'm going toa funeral tomorrow and it's a
(22:28):
son of a good friend of ours andI know I know the family and
they're very sad that the sonhas passed away.
And you know how can you nothave feelings like that?
But, when you're in a cult, knowit's?
It's like they manipulate youremotions so that's like you feel
nothing.
They don't want you to havefeelings.
(22:50):
They don't want you to havehave uh emotions, uh that will
make you feel like a real person.
So it's almost like they keepyou, so that you're uh robotic
that's very interesting how theytry to take over your whole
self.
(23:10):
Right your whole psyche,everything about you.
It's like you're almost beingmanipulated and controlled by
this cult organization becauseyou have to think only their
thoughts, do only what they say.
You know, take in theinformation that they give you
yeah, you don't have.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
You can't think for yourself?
Speaker 2 (23:32):
right, you can't think for yourself at all.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yeah, no thinking allowed yeah, if you start
thinking, you get in troubleexactly.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
You're not allowed to ask questions.
I remember, um, my, my sister'sfriend this is when we were,
you know, uh, teenagers and mysister's friend had a question
that she wanted to ask theelders and she said you know,
this disagrees with what thebible says here, and I don't
remember what it was, but shethought of something and then,
(24:05):
shortly after, theydisfellowshipped her for, I
guess, asking too many questions.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yep, and then you know my sister tried to ask the
same questions as somebody andthen they kind of marked her and
they didn't disfellowship herat that time but she had been an
interpreter for the for thedeaf people.
They took her off of deafinterpretation because she was
asking questions.
So you can't ask questions.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
It's kind of like they're trying to hold a secret
that they don't want you to findout.
The answer to Exactly.
Exactly.
So what can individuals, whatsteps can they take to protect
themselves from like fallingprey to like cultic teachings,
(24:55):
even within the Christiancommunity?
Because sometimes you know,those kind of seep in without us
sometimes knowing orrecognizing them?
Speaker 2 (25:04):
sometimes knowing or recognizing them.
Yeah, you know, and a lot offalse teachings have infiltrated
the church.
You know just, not just cults,but you know just weird.
You know teachings that are,you know, with aberrant beliefs
and I find that a lot ofChristians don't really know
(25:24):
their Bible all that well andyou know they need to get into
deep.
You know bible study andunderstand scripture.
Uh, do study and you knowhere's a good 25 cent word for
everyone hermeneutics understandthe culture that you know
scripture was written in.
(25:45):
Understand the historicalsignificance, understand who is
the writer and who are theywriting to.
You know and why.
So you have to understand allthese things in order to
understand scripture.
So you have to know that Inorder to understand scripture,
so you have to know that.
You know you have to.
(26:05):
You know read books on.
You know apologetics I mean,there's so many good resources
out there.
You know in Christianapologetics, so that you can
(26:26):
understand.
You know, you know thecounterfeit and false from from
the truth.
So, um, if, if my mother hadknown anything about the Bible,
we had never gotten involvedwith Jehovah's Witnesses because
she didn't know anything aboutthe Bible.
You know, we were Catholic, butmy mother never, never, read
the Bible.
We had this big Bible in thehouse.
It was huge, it was like a big,huge Bible and but she never
(26:47):
read it.
And then, when she startedstudying with Jehovah's
Witnesses because she'd neverread her Bible she thought what
the Jehovah's Witnesses weretelling her were true.
She thought all those thingswere true and she had no way to
(27:08):
refute it.
So, you know, sometimes we hearthings and then sometimes our
um conscience or our our spiritwill say this is, this is wrong.
You know, and if somethingmight be a red flag or seems
untrue, then research it.
You know, and if you're comingup against a cult or a false
teacher, you know, it's so easyto look someone up online, you
(27:31):
know, and research the history.
I mean, you know, back when Iwas young, we didn't have the
internet and, and so I actuallyhad to go to the library and
look it up and library and startresearching, and that's how I
got myself out of the cult mindcontrol.
But the best thing to do isfirst know scripture.
(27:52):
Second, do your research, doyour homework.
Something sounds kind of crazy.
It probably is, it probably is,and you know, look up, look up
(28:15):
the history of, of, of thechurch that you know you might
be thinking of joining, or youknow, because it could be a cult
, and it's called she calls itthe good news mission.
I think it's a korean cult andanyway, she was telling me how
high control it was and that youknow, if you're in there, all
your marriage, all the marriagesare arranged.
(28:36):
You're not allowed to.
You know, marry the person youwant, they arrange marriages,
everything, and it's a veryhyper calvinism.
You know, and, uh, she's kindof like does, has done what I
have done with jehovah'switnesses.
You know, she's kind of like aperson who helps people out of
this cult.
So, um, which I thought wasvery interesting, and now she
(28:59):
goes to a christian, a goodchristian church.
So, um, you just have to learnthe differences between you know
the lie and you know where isthe truth and be able to compare
it.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah, like biblical literacy is something that's, I
think, needed today, because notmany people know their bibles
as well as they should, so it'seasier for them to to fall into.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
you know different beliefs if they don't know what
the bible says exactly, yeah, um, it it's, and I find a lot of
christians get fooled by a lotof um.
You know, false teaching.
You know, uh, over at ourwomen's Bible study the other
night, you know we were talkingabout the.
(29:50):
You know NAR.
You know New ApostolicReformation, and you know people
didn't know what that was andwe were also talking about.
You know, know, some of theprosperity um gospel, you know
that, you know, is out there andyou know, one lady says well,
what about?
What about?
(30:11):
Um, oh, now, I can't rememberthe name.
It's a female.
Um, oh, not beth moore, not her.
Um, oh, gosh, and her face isin my head too.
I can see her face.
Uh, she's been around for quitea while.
Um, it's on the tip of mytongue.
(30:34):
I'm sorry, I don't know if youcould think of a female one, but
anyway, others, this, this,this woman has published a lot
of books.
She's been very popular inchristian circles and I've tried
to warn women.
Uh, this is a prosperityteacher that she's.
This woman has published a lotof books.
She's been very popular inChristian circles and I've tried
to warn women this is aprosperity teacher.
She's not.
She's not.
This is not sound doctrine.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
This is the prosperity gospel, yeah, and I
think too also I think you mighthave mentioned this too Like if
you do know the Bible, the HolySpirit can prompt you to know
oh, this doesn't line up withScripture If you know the truth,
so.
So how can Christians have ahealthy dialogue with people who
(31:22):
have different beliefs andcults?
How can we talk to them?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Well, the first thing is you don't want to just come
out and attack their beliefs,start it on Jehovah's Witnesses
and start naming off all theirfalse prophecies and their false
teachings and say see, this iswhere the Bible says.
And then you know they're goingto walk off faster than you can
(31:51):
believe, so they're going to begone.
Or if you start telling Mormonsoh you know, joseph Smith's a
false prophet, here are all yourfalse teachings they're not
going to want to stand there andlisten to you.
So one of the methods that aperson might use is just to ask
thoughtful questions, you know,that are non-threatening.
(32:11):
You know, like, tell me aboutthe history of your, but where
did it start?
It was the founder and why didthey find?
How did they found theorganization?
And you know who were the firstleaders, what did they teach?
You know, and would I be ableto look at their teachings and
(32:36):
compare it against?
You know the Bible.
You know, and you know whatwould you do if you found
teachings in your church or yourorganization if it conflicted
against the Bible?
What would you do?
Would you take that yourorganization's teachings as true
(32:58):
or the Bible is true?
You know, so you try to getthem to.
You know, think about whatthey're believing and what you
know.
You might not, you might, youwon't be able to convert them
right there.
Or to say, wow, you know.
I always use the illustration.
They're not going to be like,oh, I could have had a V8.
(33:20):
They're not going to be like,oh, I could have had a V8.
They're not going to be likethat.
It's going to be more of you'replanting seeds.
You're just giving them enoughinformation, as Greg Kokel might
say, to put a stone in theirshoe to make them a little
uncomfortable, but you don'twant to barrage them with all
(33:43):
this information.
You know, just ask thoughtfulquestions and, you know, ask
questions like well, what if youknow this happened?
You know what would be theresult.
You know, ask a lot of what ifsyou know what, and then then
result you know, you know, ask alot of what ifs, you know what,
and then then you know it's.
It's it's more just sort of aprocess of getting them to to
(34:08):
think about what they believeyeah, and hopefully, you know,
get them to think some.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Some of them don't allow them to think, so
hopefully it allows them tothink about what they believe
too.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yeah, and even though they may give you a poker face
or look like they're notinterested or look like it's not
getting through to them, itmight be.
So when they leave, pray forthem, you know, you know.
(34:43):
Pray that God opens up theirheart, softens them up, and that
the Holy Spirit will do hiswork.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Yeah, definitely so, because God can move, because he
, he'll be the one to save them,yes, and not us.
So how can Christiancommunities support people who
have been influenced by culticteachings Like they're believers
, but they somehow adapted,adopted some false teachings in
(35:17):
their thinking?
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Oh, you mean Christians who, like might be in
the church, but yet they have.
So how do we assist them?
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Yes, they have been influenced.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Okay.
So, um, that's a good questionbecause you know, you don't know
who might be influenced.
I think the church needs to doa better job or needs to work on
, you know, getting groupstogether.
You know, for small studies,you know to kind of teach
(35:54):
apologetics and maybe go overaberrant teachings that have
been out there in.
You know, in the church thereare so many false teachings as I
, you know, have mentioned, likeNAR, the prosperity gospel.
I mean people will watch the TVpreachers, you know.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Right.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Okay, so you know there's.
Think, okay, so they'll, youknow there's one.
Can I mention names?
Yes, you can like joel austin,you know, like that they might
watch that.
Or you know and think, oh yeah,well, you know that sounds good
.
So we have to make sure thatpeople are not looking at stuff,
(36:40):
things that just sound good,but they want to look at good
sound doctrine.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Right, yeah, yeah, definitely so.
So what would be like someresources for believers to kind
of equip them to educatethemselves on false teachings,
cults, things like that?
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Well, I guess the first thing I would recommend is
, like Walter Martin's books,you know, Kingdom of the Cults.
It's been updated several timesand you know that is a good
beginner, I think.
Kingdom of the Cults because itgives you a kind of an overview
of a lot of the cults, becauseit gives you a um kind of an
overview of of a lot ofdifferent cults you know,
(37:25):
including java's witnesses ormormons, and and uh, you know a
lot of the other cults that arearound, so you know that.
And I would um also just say toyou know, get some books on
Christian apologetics, you know,and start reading some of those
(37:48):
.
I mean, there's so manyresources out there and websites
also.
You know, if you're there's uh,carm um, there's a website
called carm carm and, uh, youknow it has um a lot, of, a lot
(38:10):
of good write-ups on.
You know a lot of the differentcults and abrid religions and
stuff like that.
So there's just know, juststart looking them up online.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Well, that sounds good.
So, to wrap up the show, whatwould be some encouragement you
could offer believers who wantto live faithfully for Christ?
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Oh boy, encouragement .
Well, you know, find a goodchurch.
You know, find a good churchwith a good pastor.
I'm very blessed to be in anexcellent church right now with
a excellent pastor.
I just love him so much him andhis wife, they're just great
people that he teachesapologetics, his wife teaches,
(38:59):
you know, the women's group andshe does an excellent job
because you know they're justright on the same page.
You know, it's none of thisfluffy stuff right, yeah it's
good, solid teaching, and so getyourself a good church with a
good pastor, the um, and youknow where there's a lot of
bible study, where you can getinvolved, um, and and and just
(39:23):
work from there.
You know, get yourself intosome sort of, uh, small group,
you know, hopefully, um, I don'tknow about everybody's church,
you know, but you know, um,we're we're looking into having
some home groups, you know where, where specific things are
studied.
You know certain biblicaltopics I'm supposed to teach one
(39:46):
on the cults soon and you know,if you have a church like this,
who's really into studying andteaching, that would be the best
thing you know for someone.
You know, if you can't findthat kind of a church, maybe you
could find, you know, teachingonline, you know, so that you
can, you know, do that.
(40:09):
And then you know, of course,I'm in Women in Apologetics.
You know we have a conferenceonce a year.
This year we're having one inNashville.
No-transcript has this kind ofconference.
(40:49):
There are different conferencesacross the country, you know,
with different apologeticsorganizations.
You know Biola University hasdifferent apologetics type
seminars and weekends, and justkeep on the lookout for that and
get yourself into some kind ofseminar or conference where you
(41:13):
can learn, you know, how todefend your faith, mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Yeah Well, cynthia, thank you so much for coming on
the show and helping us learnabout cults and the difference
between you know what we believeas christians and what they
believe um different than us, sothank you for being on the show
.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
It was a pleasure, thank you.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Hey everyone.
So I hope and pray that thisepisode with Cynthia will ignite
your curiosity to dive moreinto cults and compare what they
believe to the core Christianbeliefs.
I've added some of theresources that she mentioned in
the show notes, so go ahead andcheck those out.
Well, until next time time,remember god is always good and
(42:02):
he's always faithful.
Thank you for listening to thepodcast.
Do me a favor by following thepodcast and leaving a review to
help spread the word.
I look forward to hearing fromyou, thank you.
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