Dr. Robin Harwick, founder of The Pearl Online Democratic High School, discusses her journey from a curious child to an educator, emphasizing the importance of challenging gifted students to prevent dropout rates. She highlights that 25% of gifted students drop out due to lack of challenge. The school, which started in 2020, serves over 60% BIPOC and 65% neurodivergent students, with classes capped at 10 for personalized learning. The school offers a sliding scale and scholarships, and accepts students globally. Dr. Harwick stresses the importance of listening to students and fostering a supportive learning environment.
Learn more about The Pearl Remote Democratic High School!
https://thepearlhighschool.org/
https://www.facebook.com/ThePearlHighSchool/
https://www.instagram.com/the_pearl_high_school/
https://substack.com/@drharwick
https://www.linkedin.com/in/harwickr/
https://www.youtube.com/@thepearlaremotedemocratich2710
Highlights of the Episode
00:56 - Dr. Harwick’s Love of Learning & Early Influences
- Dr. Harwick shares her childhood curiosity, family background in education, and how her early experiences shaped her passion for learning.
02:24 - Challenges of Gifted & Neurodivergent Students
- Discussion on the unique struggles of gifted and neurodivergent students, the importance of challenge, and the risks of disengagement in traditional schools.
06:06 - Dr. Harwick’s Educational Journey & Research
- Dr. Harwick recounts her path through higher education, her research focus on transition to adulthood for youth with disabilities, and her work in child welfare.
11:00 - Founding The Pearl: Inspiration & Mission
- The story behind the creation of The Pearl Remote Democratic High School, including the influence of Dr. Art Perl and the vision for a student-centered, evidence-based online school.
0:16:05 - Tiffany’s Tips: Building a Child’s Brain
- NEW Segment! Tiffany Curry shares practical advice from the book "30 Million Words," emphasizing the power of conversation and vocabulary in early childhood development.
21:42 - The Pearl’s Approach: Differentiation & Community
- Dr. Harwick explains the school’s commitment to small class sizes, differentiated instruction, and building trust with students, especially those who have felt marginalized.
26:22 - Demographics & Student Experience at The Pearl
- Insights into the diverse student body, the importance of co-creation, and how The Pearl helps students rediscover their interests and passions.
29:40 - Middle Schoolers & Family Partnerships
- Discussion on expanding to middle school, supporting families through developmental changes, and fostering independence and advocacy in students.
34:42 - Global Reach & Enrollment Process
- Overview of The Pearl’s international student bo
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
TD Flenaugh (00:04):
Thank you so much for joining the Falling for
Learning Podcast. This episode,we are going to be interviewing
Dr Robin Harwick, and she is thefounder of a remote school, and
we're going to talk about howthis could be a good strategy
for your child, how you mightjoin her her school, and how she
(00:27):
fell in love with the learning.
Hi. Thank you so much forjoining the Falling for Learning
Podcast. We have this podcast tohelp parents and caregivers with
having the resources, strategiesand tools needed to make sure
that their children are on trackfor learning and to stay on
track for success. Thank you somuch. Dr Robin Harwick for
joining us. How are you doing?
Dr. Robin Harwick (00:52):
I'm doing well. Thank you for having me.
I'm excited for ourconversation.
TD Flenaugh (00:57):
Yes, me too. Let's get into what was it as a child
that had you fall in love withlearning?
Dr. Robin Harwick (01:06):
I always loved learning. I was a nerdy
kid. My joke is that I alwaysgot so many tattoos later in
life, so that people didn't knowwhat a nerd I was, and my
friends always said we stillknew. We still knew. You know, I
just I had a really naturalcuriosity, and I loved reading.
(01:26):
And, you know, I was the kid whoalways had a book in my hand,
and, you know, hiding out in myroom to finish the book and
everything like that.
Interesting, though I never knewthat I was going to become an
educator, even as much as Iloved learning. So I think it is
just like following my naturalcuriosity and my natural
passions, and then I would say,by fluke or by fate, here, here
I am.
TD Flenaugh (01:49):
Okay. Do you have educators in your family at all?
I do
Dr. Robin Harwick (01:53):
my my auntie was a principal, so again,
surprised that I didn't know Iwas going to be an educator, and
my great aunt was also ateacher. Yeah,
TD Flenaugh (02:02):
okay, I tend to see there's some kind of educator
lineage, even if it's if it's anon, if it's sometimes not
formal, right? But, you know,but yeah, okay, and so your
curiosity, tell us about youreducational journey like, you
Dr. Robin Harwick (02:24):
know, yeah, so, you know, I was labeled
gifted and talented in school,which we now are finding out
more and more, that really meantthat most of us were probably
neurodivergent and we didn'thave the language for it back
then. So the discourse for theyoung people today talking about
this has been really interestingfor me, but I was never
(02:46):
challenged in school. So I neverlearned study skills. I never I
showed up. I got good grades.
Nobody paid much attention tome. I graduated, and when I
tried college the first time, Ididn't persist. I thought that
would work just like highschool, and I didn't study, and
often didn't go to class andwent to take the tests and
(03:06):
failed.
TD Flenaugh (03:10):
Oh my. Okay, so that's where you met your first
kind of challenge, before that,you just were able to get it,
and so you didn't have, like achallenge. Like you didn't
really have the study. Wow,that's so interesting. And so
that that is something like, asparents we need to think about,
right? If our kid is justgetting things that we may need
(03:33):
to find some challenge for themso that later on, they could be
successful. So that's somethingthat maybe we they didn't think
about right? But luckily, youknow you, you said you tried
your first time and wasn'tsuccessful at college. Okay, so,
yeah, so what? So you werefailing? What happened next?
Unknown (03:52):
We'd like to back up a little bit. Oh, back, super
important, so about 25% of kidsthat are identified as gifted
and talented end up dropping outof high school. Yeah, and
exactly what you picked up on,what happened for me and for
many students that I've workedwith since, once you figure out
like I can only get an A I can'tgo beyond that, right? And
(04:19):
because of classroom sizes andother types of challenges.
Teachers might not even realizethat this, this student is not
being challenged, right? And sowe see it in behaviors. Kids
start getting in trouble inschool. They start, you know,
skipping school and all of thosekind of things. So for parents,
you know, they're listening,it's really important to figure
out, Is this like a it's becauseI can't do it and they need more
(04:43):
support, or is it because it isjust so easy for them, they are
not interested, right?
TD Flenaugh (04:48):
That's, that's something to really Yeah,
because, like you were saying,Dr Harwick is like, the teachers
might not connect with thatissue, but as a parent, you
need. To make sure that you aregiving them that challenge or
helping them to stay motivated.
And I think we don't talk aboutit enough, right, that we do
know that that's as an educatormyself, I know that that is a
(05:11):
statistic that our gifted andtalented students will drop out
like there's a percentage ofthem that will and so, you know,
just thinking about lovinglearning, right? And not just
getting the learning for thepurpose of getting that A and
one way it was described to metoo was like that growth mindset
(05:32):
versus the versus the fixedmindset, right? So once they
meet the challenge, sometimesit's like, what? And like, I
guess I'm not good at schoolanymore, rather than like,
because they haven't had thechallenge. Like, oh, well, maybe
I need to keep working on this.
(05:52):
Like, they don't have thatfixed, they don't have that
growth mindset. They're justlike, Okay, I'm done being good
at school because I failed thetest. And it's not that I need
to do better or work on it,because they haven't had to
before. So thank you so much forhighlighting that.
Dr. Robin Harwick (06:06):
Yeah, so going back to my journey. So I
dropped out, and I went and didother things, and then I decided
to go back when I was 25 and Idid my undergraduate. And then,
you know, life kind of went anddid life things, and then I went
back. I've always had a veryresearch brain, and I was
(06:28):
working at a research institute,and they said, well, don't you
want to get your PhD? And Idon't know, maybe I'm, you know,
from a working class background.
My mom was a factor worker, mydad was mechanic, you know,
like, Don't you want a PhD? AndI was like, Tell me more. Oh,
wow, yeah. And so mentors saidthat, you know, I really should
(06:50):
get one. And so I was the onlyperson in my cohort. I was older
in life by this time, right?
Kids and and they said, Well,you know, you can take classes
during your work day. And I waslike, Okay, well, this is
sounding more and moreinteresting. And so I finally
decided to go. But I was theonly one in my cohort in my
(07:12):
doctoral program that hadn't,like wanted a PhD. And I was
kind of like, this seems likeit's working out and learning.
I'm learning things I'm, youknow, getting to read. I'm
having this, this opportunity totalk with really knowledgeable
people about things that I careabout, which, you know, we're
(07:33):
kids that struggle like I didduring my transition into
adulthood and and I had seen somany people struggle during that
early, you know, young adultperiod that I wanted to get more
information so I could supportkids in their transition more
and, okay,
TD Flenaugh (07:50):
so that's your study, right? Your that was your
So, what is like? What do youget your PhD? And I understand
what your study was,
Dr. Robin Harwick (07:57):
but yeah, so it's secondary special ed in
transition. Okay, so
TD Flenaugh (08:01):
yes, and that's another thing that, I guess,
that people may not know, isthat Gifted and Talented
Students are also part of thespecial education under the
special education umbrella,right? So, yeah, exceptional
needs, or, like, maybe disabled,you know, a learning disability,
(08:22):
or something like that, they fitunder that same umbrella, yes,
okay, and so you were able to goback and talk to kids like
yourself, yeah.
Dr. Robin Harwick (08:33):
For my dissertation work, it was a
little bit unique, because I'veworked a lot with kids in the
child welfare system, so Ireally looked at the
intersection of child welfareand disability. So my
dissertation study was on thetransition to adulthood for
young adults with disabilities.
So you know, again, reallylooking at understanding what
worked well for kiddos that hada lot of circumstances beyond
(08:56):
their control.
TD Flenaugh (08:59):
And then can we go, like, because you're saying they
some students were gifted. Wereyou studying gifted students, or
students with disabilities, orrange of students,
Dr. Robin Harwick (09:08):
just a range of students? Yeah, okay, okay,
all right.
TD Flenaugh (09:12):
And where did you study?
Dr. Robin Harwick (09:15):
So at the University of Oregon, I've got
my master's and doctorate therein Eugene, Oregon.
TD Flenaugh (09:21):
Nice. Okay, and then those, so what was your
like career like after yourstep? Like? What kind of tell us
about your career?
Dr. Robin Harwick (09:32):
So, you know, again, I'm a curious person, and
I love learning, so my careertakes me in different paths. So
I have worked a lot in childwelfare. I've worked in
substance use disorder, workedin research. I've worked a lot
with tribes across the UnitedStates. And, you know, I'm
always looking for ways that Ican help solve systemic
(09:56):
problems, and anytime that Ithink about, you know. Here we
have these systemic problems andand we need more supports. We
need more services. We need moreresources. It always comes back
to education for me and this, Ilove your falling for learning.
I love the name of your podcastbecause Thank you. I was like,
Yes, this is what we need. Weneed well educated people to
(10:22):
help think through some of thechallenges that we're facing in
our society today, and we needpeople who have been
strategically marginalized bythe systems to have the
education they need to helpovercome some of the strategic
barriers that have been placedin front of us.
TD Flenaugh (10:39):
Yeah. So thank you so much. Yeah, we it's all about
that, falling in love withlearning, making it a pursuit, a
lifelong passion, things thatyou care about, and also about
being able to elevate, elevateyour community. So all of those
things. Okay, so tell us aboutyou have the school that you
founded. How did that comeabout?
Dr. Robin Harwick (11:00):
Yeah, so the pearl was born in 2020 so I had
tried a lot of different things.
I've worked at system level,doing teacher prep programs.
I've done professionaldevelopment with teachers, and
all of these kind of things. Andteachers have come back and they
say, Dr Harwick, we're mad atyou. And I said, and they said,
Well, we've tried some of thesethings that you've talked about
(11:21):
in our schools, and our adminsaid we can't do it. And I said,
okay, yeah, sure, right. And sohere we've got this structure
again. And, you know, again, I'ma research scientist. I have a
PhD in education, and so, youknow, what we're learning about
is evidence based practices. Andyou know, so what my teaching is
(11:42):
about is how to deliver evidencebased practices in school
settings. Yes, there's bearssaying you can't do that. You
can't do that. We also know thatthere's a gap between research
and practice of about 1315,years. Yes. So long story short,
I was teaching at an in personschool. As the pandemic hit, my
(12:03):
kiddo was going there as well,and I wasn't trying to say too
much about the experience I washaving in the school, because we
weren't using best practices.
Pedagogy was behind the times,because I seemed like my kid was
having a pretty good experience.
But then when we went intolockdown, he said, I'm done. I'm
going back to homeschooling. I'mnot doing this anymore. And so
(12:24):
he doesn't remember this,because it was 16, you know,
early in the morning for him,and he was making a quesadilla
and and I started ranting aboutthe school, because I was still
working there. I was determinedto finish the year, even though
we were online. And he's like,You should just start your own
school. What did you say?
TD Flenaugh (12:49):
Oh, from the mouths of babes, right?
Dr. Robin Harwick (12:52):
Remember?
Because he was like, early inthe morning, and 16, you know?
And so I pitch it online andsaid, You know, I'm thinking
about starting a remotedemocratic school, and within 24
hours, I had 100 Do it, do it,do it. And so that was April 16
of 2020 we launched in the fallof 2020
TD Flenaugh (13:10):
Okay, so who did you? Who did you send this out
to,
Dr. Robin Harwick (13:15):
just on Facebook? You know, it was just
like one of those Facebookposts. And, you know, I
carefully craft Facebook post,which I think are going to be so
insightful, and crickets, butthis was just like a flip it,
like I'm going to start thisschool. And I was like, Do it,
do it. Do it. And so I did love
TD Flenaugh (13:30):
that. Okay, wow. So tell me about this name. Okay,
so
Dr. Robin Harwick (13:39):
there's a couple reasons for the name one
as a child, I love pearls. Ilove that you had to go through
the muck to get them, okay, andand then it was hard for to find
them. And I was always reallyattracted to them. And I was
never attracted to like diamondsor anything like that, but
pearls were always reallyspecial to me. I also had the
(13:59):
honor and privilege of studyingwith Dr art Perl at the
University of Oregon. And he andhis partner, you know, research
partner, wrote the democraticclassroom theory to inform
practice. So literally, thebook, when I was in grad school
and I was so upset about like,things I was seeing in the
education system, everybodysaid, You need to go talk to Dr
(14:20):
pearl. He was probably 85 or 86at that time, and had been
retired for years. So they said,You're gonna love him, because
he can say whatever he wants
TD Flenaugh (14:31):
forever, right?
Like, what are you gonna
Dr. Robin Harwick (14:34):
do? What are they gonna do? So I met with
him. We bonded immediately. Istarted reading the book, which
was written in 1999 and therewas this roadmap of how we could
do education better. And I waslike, we don't need another
study, another intervention.
Like, it's right here. Somebodyjust needs to do this.
TD Flenaugh (14:59):
I. The rewrite method and the rewrite method
workbook are your go to resourcefor helping kids to learn to
fall in love with writing. Ithas the tips, tools, resources,
strategies and skill buildingactivities to help kids fall out
(15:25):
of writing Hoot and into lovingto write. Get your book set
today. YouTD, this episode is going to
include Tiffany's tips. She is ahomeschooling mom. She's been on
(15:47):
our show before, and she's goingto give us some tips about what
she does. She's a mom of three,and we're going to get some tips
from her on how to get ourchildren the competitive
advantage. What have you beenthinking about?
Tiffany Curry (16:05):
One thing that comes to mind is this book that
is called 30 million wordsbuilding a child's brain. Oh,
that's good, yeah, it goes intohow much words help the brain
development. And it's talksabout how, when you start from
before they can even talk, whenthey're just babies babbling.
(16:27):
You know how babies babble? AndI often see people going, Oh,
really, what happened baby, youknow, engaging with the baby's
babbles and maybe copying whatthey're doing. If they're going,
bah, bah, bah, bah, you go, bah,bah, bah, bah, you know to
that's also communicating andhelping develop their brain, and
(16:50):
it just talks about how the morewords they know, the more that
they'll have, like you said,that competitive advantage and
the more their brains willdevelop and help them as they
grow up. And, yeah, I liked howthey kind of broke down this
point of how to go about doingthis. And they called it tune
(17:14):
in, talk more and take turns.
Okay, the tune in aspect is,let's say you have a child
that's like building blocks,right? And you notice that
they're, it's getting tall, andyou just go over and you kind of
notice what they're doing andseem excited about it and
interested, yeah, oh, wow. I seeyou have red and green and blue.
(17:37):
Wow. This is really tall. Howtall is it going to be just kind
of tuning in and observing whatthey're doing? But the talk more
aspect of it is about how youcan just respond to them when
you, let's say, you want them todo something like put your shoes
(17:57):
on instead of just sparkingorders, get your shoes on, we
gotta go, maybe saying, hey, weneed to get our shoes on so that
our feet aren't closed when wego outside, or so that our toes
don't get wet because it'sraining out. So we got to get
our shoes on. So you're going toput one foot in and another
(18:18):
footing you have two feet, youknow, engaging in conversation,
okay, narrating what's going on.
You know, I love to take my son,who's three, to the grocery
store, and we have a ballbecause I'm in there talking
about everything that we see,everything that I pick up. We're
going over colors, we're goingover numbers. We're noticing the
(18:42):
letters in the store, you know,it's a whole learning
experience, but we're justshopping for groceries, you
know?
TD Flenaugh (18:51):
And that really, really highlights, like, one of
the things like this book iscalled 30 million words. And for
those of you who don't know outthere that many kids come to
school behind, right? And thisshoe, this show, is all about
giving kids the competitiveadvantage and to the way to not
(19:13):
have them behind is actuallytalking having that vocabulary.
And so, you know what Tiffany issaying is the opposite of
barking orders, put your shoeson, sit down, be quiet, instead
having conversations and talkingmore and more about why we're
doing things, what we see how todo things, and that really helps
(19:40):
grow the child's vocabulary,because when we only bark orders
at kids really don't engage withthem in conversation. They have
limited vocabulary and limitedunderstanding about why they're
doing things, and so that 30million word at. Believe that's
a 30 million word gap orsomething, right? Or yeah, that
(20:04):
the kids have because you'vejust said, sit down. Be quiet.
Stop, don't instead of likeshe's saying, we need to put our
shoes on, because we our feetmight get dirty. Our feet might
get hurt if we don't have anyshoes on, it's time for us to
go, and this is how we getready. We put three things on,
(20:25):
we put on shoes, we put on ourcoat, we put on our hat or
something, you know, and itkeeps our ears warm and our head
warm and all of those words islike, Oh, that's a lot of
talking, but that's what ourkids need to have that
competitive advantage ratherthan the opposite side of that
is a disadvantage, with notunderstanding, not having the
(20:48):
words, not having the reasoning.
Tiffany Curry (20:51):
Yes, and I do want to add that the book is
called 30 million words buildinga child's brain by Dr Dana
suskin You, skin
Dr. Robin Harwick (21:04):
art was very dedicated to public schools, and
so when I decided I wanted to dothis and I wanted to call the
pearl, I reached out to hisfamily and said, because he had
passed a few years before, and Isaid, I have this idea. I know
your dad wouldn't be thrilled ifit wasn't in public school, but
I think this is the time to dothis differently, and we'll
(21:26):
become a nonprofit and havesliding scale so that we can
make sure that we live in thespirit of Dr Pearl and his his
daughter said, I'm in what do weneed to do? And then his
granddaughter was one of ourfirst students.
TD Flenaugh (21:42):
Oh, my goodness, yeah, that is amazing. I just
want to say, like, one thingthat is a big issue with
education is a lot of peoplehave opinions about it and
affect policy. You know, there'sresearchers that may not have
been classroom teachers. May nothave worked at a school, but
(22:04):
they may have their doctoraldegree in education, but there
are people who make policies,laws and everything, and, you
know, put it in on a school,right? But they don't really
have information from classroompractitioners, right? Maybe they
talk to a researcher orsomething. So there's this huge
(22:25):
gap, like you said, betweenresearch policy and actually the
practice that's going on inschools. And you know, that is a
huge issue. And I make it akinto, like, if you know, it
doesn't matter the design.
Designer, if I come and designyour house, you could be a world
renowned designer if I nevertalk to you about your house,
(22:47):
how you use it, thefunctionality, how you use your
space, what you would you liketo use your space? You have this
great design, but it justdoesn't work for you, right?
Because you didn't, I didn't.
You know, you didn't tell methat. Oh, I like this space for
reading, and I need a space hereto do yoga, and I need to do,
you know, so somebody else, likethey may need a workout room
(23:09):
that has weights in it, or it'sjust different ways that people
use space and that's practicalfor your family. And you know,
the same thing with teaching.
They're coming in designing ourclassrooms or our policies, and
they don't even know what weneed. And then it's so
different, depending on theclass for that year, right?
(23:29):
Because the last year's classcould be totally different, same
subject, same age, but differentgroup of kids need something a
little different. And you know,even then, different classes,
different school settings,different, you know, cultures,
there's just so many things thatyou know really are specific
(23:51):
that policies don't always fitto and again, they're not even
talking to any teacher, a lot ofthem, let alone, like a specific
teacher, you know, so it's soI'm glad that there's someone
out there that's actuallyputting those boots on the
ground and putting that researchinto practice. So thank you so
(24:12):
much for doing
Dr. Robin Harwick (24:15):
that. And to your point, I also teach at the
school, because I never wantedto be one of those academics or
admins that you're like. Whenwas the last time you talked to
a kid? 1982
TD Flenaugh (24:29):
but I've got my PhD.
Dr. Robin Harwick (24:33):
I mean, the language, the, you know, the
slang, the music, all of those,yes, right. Hero in admins and
professors that haven't beenaround kids, because the stories
they tell are not relevant fortoday's youth, right? So, like,
I have to learn about what videogames are into and all of these
kind of things. But the otherthing for my for my teachers,
(24:55):
when they say, Well, I don'tknow if we can, I say, Well, you
can, because. Is right and I'mdoing this, and would you like
to hear different ways that Iincorporate differentiated
instruction? So differentiatedinstruction is mandatory for
every single kid. So for parentsthat aren't aware of that kind
of language, that means that wehave class, classes capped at 10
(25:19):
students, and teachers need tochange the way that they're
giving instruction to make surethat every kiddo in that
classroom gets the informationthey need to be successful.
TD Flenaugh (25:31):
Say that again, 10 kids, that's amazing. I love
that.
Dr. Robin Harwick (25:36):
You know, we're online, and so 10 is kind
of the magic number. And I've,I've taught graduate students
at, you know, 1215, and and Ireally like 10, because nobody
can fade away. And so for theshy kids, I say, you know,
there's only eight of you in theclass today, and when you were
(25:58):
in the class of 30, I know youcould fade to the back and
nobody noticed you. But ifyou're not talking, there's
eight of you, I can, I cannotice that you're not
TD Flenaugh (26:07):
talking with us.
Yeah, that's amazing. Okay, canyou tell us about the makeup of
like, your demographics that arein your school? What kind what
is the demographic? What type ofdemographics do you have in
Dr. Robin Harwick (26:21):
your school?
So about over 60% of ourstudents identify as bipoc.
About 65% of our studentsidentify as neurodivergent.
That's the category that theyprefer. It can look like autism,
ADHD, learning disabilities. Sothat's kind of their blanket
they chose, and this is part ofwhat we do, is we co create with
(26:44):
them. We co created thedemographics form with them, and
neuro divergent is what theyprefer. So many of our students
who have come to us have beenbullied in and had experienced
microaggressions in publicschool settings and some in
private school settings, as wellas your listeners may know,
oftentimes the demographics ofthe teachers don't match the
(27:06):
demographics of the students,and so our students come to us,
and many of them have reallyshut down, and they've lost that
love of learning. And when theycome into our school, I say to
them, to our teachers, I waslike, so, so, so, gentle,
gentle, gentle. And I tell theparents, you're not going to see
a flurry of activity right awaywith, you know, some of the
kiddos, because we have to buildour trust and our relationship
(27:29):
with them. And you know, I tellthe teachers, too, they're not
going to trust you, and theyshouldn't, because they have
learned in other systems thatthey can't trust that teacher
see Adam. So we build thatrelationship first, then we dig
in. But a key piece of what wedo is reigniting that spark,
helping them find out, what dothey love. And many kids who
(27:52):
have been in kind of mainstreamsettings, when I say like so,
part of what you get to do withthe pearl is you get to study
stuff that you're into. What areyou into? And they say, so what
do you mean? That's amazing.
Yeah. They say, I don't know. Idon't know what I'm into. Like,
nobody's ever asked me thatbefore. No, yeah, we have a lot
(28:14):
of you know, again, from italigns with the data, 10th
graders, right? 10th graders whocome to us and they say, I'm
done, I'm just done with school.
So they come to us and I'm like,but what do you want to learn?
And they're like, I have noidea, because I've tried, and my
day was so full, and I was justtrying to check off boxes and do
what need to be done. So I don'tknow what I like. And so we help
(28:36):
them explore and find whatthey're passionate about. And
this is like early careerexploration without being
explicitly telling, yes, we'regoing to let you think about
your career. We're not eventhere yet. We're just like, What
do you like? What do you enjoy?
What are you interested in? Andthey get to try different things
out. And then our job as ateacher, and this is the
(28:56):
democratic part. If I know a kidwho's really into music, but
really afraid of math, then themath teacher's role is like,
Well, how do I incorporatemusic? Yes, absolutely interest
to get them excited. And in myclasses, like, we're we're doing
geography, and we're doinggeography through the lens of
(29:18):
music. So we're going to belooking at migration patterns
and how music changes whengroups of people, you know, come
together and and so that'll beour, our kind of lens as we move
through the Americas in in thefall,
TD Flenaugh (29:33):
oh, you said Fall 2020. Is when you started. Okay?
And is it a, it's a high school,correct? So nine to 12, um,
Dr. Robin Harwick (29:40):
but we actually, we have to change our
name, because we do offereducational choices to middle
schoolers as well. So I have hadthree now middle schoolers that
have come to me, set up ameeting to meet me by zoom and
say, I don't want to wait. Iwant to be in your school now.
And if. A 13 year old is willingto meet with a stranger and say,
(30:03):
I need to be in your school. NowI said, Well, let's, let's try.
It works beautifully, becauseMiddle School, as you know, as
an educator, is such a pivotalmoment, and that's when the
tension so if the family washomeschooling, yeah, it was a
beautiful relationship. And nowall of a sudden, you know, mom
is like but they love doing thiswith me, and it's natural part
(30:26):
of their development. And soit's really helpful to partner
with other programs so that youmaintain your relationship, and
you're not fighting aboutalgebra, right? Because that's
your parenting experience to be
TD Flenaugh (30:41):
absolutely I think it's notable that you brought
that up, because, yes, that'salso why filing for learning is
here, because there are changesthat our kids go through. Like
everything's great in secondgrade, third grade, or whatever.
They might be great in highschool, but middle school, but,
you know, whatever like it maytake partners. It may take,
(31:03):
like, just knowing certainstrategies or different things.
It depends on your kid, whatthey need, but being aware that
that is normal, that they'regoing to go through changes, and
what they thought was wonderfulbefore, they may not even care
about or maybe embarrassed thatyou brought it up now.
Dr. Robin Harwick (31:21):
And so, you know, we are a partnership, and
we work with kiddos and withfamilies to help them navigate
this very difficult time indevelopment. And you know, for
some of our students with ADHD,they really want to do it on
their own. They don't want theirparents involved in their
schooling anymore. And so wesay, oh, let's, let's try it
(31:42):
out. Let's, you know, I can showyou some different tools that
may work for you. Are youwilling to try these? Do you
want to try it your own way? Andthen we help them learn how to
advocate. And sometimes, youknow, depending on kind of
what's going on with them andwhere they are, and learning
about themselves and how theirbrain works, sometimes they go,
You know what? It would bereally helpful if my mom reminds
(32:02):
me, I said, Okay, would you likeme to contact her? Would you
like to talk with her yourself?
And it really depends. It can goboth ways. But now it's not a
power dynamic between the kiddoand the parent. Now it's the
kiddo saying, You know what? Ithink I've identified some help
that I need. Yeah, would like toask my mom. And moms are so
excited, they're like, I get tocheck Google Classroom, right?
(32:23):
And we give a little coaching oflike, how, how could that look
so that it doesn't feel like,you know, you're all in my
business. It's more about, youknow, I'm here to support you.
And remember, this is somethingthat you identified, that you
could use for now. And then whenyou don't need it anymore, I can
fade
TD Flenaugh (32:44):
away. Yes, that's such a tough balance for some
parents, because I thinksometimes that hands off
approach, the kids may not doany work, or, you know, I've
heard of some that they didn'trealize they were doing no work.
And then, of course, you don'twant to do too much, because you
want them to gain theindependence, and you know, so
you're trying to find that happymedium. So that's, that's great,
Dr. Robin Harwick (33:07):
yeah. So, you know, we find that our kids
learn to be better selfadvocates. They learn what they
need, they they feel safe to betheir beautiful, authentic
selves. Yeah, and then parentsshare with us that, you know,
things are just better at homenow too, when we're not
constantly fighting aboutschool, constantly fighting to
(33:29):
get them up, constantly fightingto get them to school,
constantly fighting about thehomework and fighting and
fighting and fighting and youknow, I always remind parents
like all of that iscommunication, and kiddos don't
often have all the words todescribe what's going on with
school and and what's happeningthere, and how they're feeling
about it. And so, you know, youask, well, you know, how was it
(33:50):
today? It was fine, but thebehavior saying it's not fine
because they're not succeedingand they're they're not doing
their homework, and we can't getthem out the door and all of
these things. So you have tolook at that behavior like, what
is, what is the need that thatchild is communicating with
their behavior? And this issomething that, you know, we
bring into the classroom too. Wewant to make sure that the the
(34:13):
kiddos learning needs are met sothey don't get frustrated, they
don't struggle. And also, forthose people that are really
sailing. And you know, they'reso accelerated that they're
still getting those challengesto help prepare them for college
as well, so that they they knowhow to navigate when they're
given an educational challenge.
TD Flenaugh (34:33):
Okay, so can you tell me like you take people
from around the the country,around the United States, other
countries as well,
Dr. Robin Harwick (34:42):
and it changes. So I love when you were
talking about the cohorts,because each cohort kind of has
a personality. We had onecohort. Most of them have gone
on and graduated and are doingother things, but at one time,
we had students from sevencountries, and that was really
fantastic, because it. Is trulya multicultural experience for
all of our kiddos. Yeah, we doaccept students from all over
(35:05):
the United States. We kind offocus on the Americas because it
just works better with the timezone. Through the school choice
programs, we can receive directfunding from the state of Utah,
Arizona, West Virginia and NewHampshire. So if you have
listeners in those states, thestate will help cover tuition.
Like I said, we do have limitedsliding scale scholarships for
(35:28):
those kids who really say, like,this is where I need to be. We
want to not turn, you know,teens away that say we're the
right school for them. So wealways try to make it work.
Yeah, and, you know, we welcomesixth
TD Flenaugh (35:43):
through 12th grade.
So let's say I have a child thatwants to attend your school or
is interested, because we're notsure. Like, how would I, like,
you know, with a in personschool, I could do a school
tour. Like, how do I how would aparent navigate being adjoining
part of your school or just evenchecking it out to see if it's a
(36:04):
viable option? Maybe,
Dr. Robin Harwick (36:07):
yeah. So parents go to our website. It's
the pearl high school.org Thereis a button on there that says,
meet with the director. That'sme. And so you can schedule an
appointment directly on mycalendar and we can talk. I love
it when the interested studentcomes to that meeting. Sometimes
they don't, sometimes it's theparents kind of check me out.
(36:27):
First talk about the school and,you know, see whether or not it
seems like a good match. Andthen the student will meet with
me. The students always welcometo meet with me, independently
or with a family, whatever theywant. I say I work with teens
all day, and so I'm totally finewith the students grilling me
and asking me tons of questionsand being suspicious and not
(36:48):
Yeah, this sounds too good to betrue. Is this for real? So,
yeah. So then we work to seewhether or not it seems like
it's a good fit, and then thestudents enroll if they choose
to be with us. We also, youknow, sometimes students want to
talk to another student, and sowe can arrange that, you know,
(37:09):
if they want to meet a couple ofthe other teachers, if there's
one particular class that theysay, Well, I'm looking at this
school because it's the onlyschool that I can find that has
Japanese, you know, and theywant to teacher, they can meet
the teacher as well.
TD Flenaugh (37:21):
That's amazing. So we are, you know, I'm definitely
all that's in the show notes,please, you know, get in contact
with Dr Robin Harwick and tellus the name of the school,
again, the whole name,
Dr. Robin Harwick (37:35):
yeah, it's the pearl remote democratic High
School. Okay?
TD Flenaugh (37:39):
And so give us your contact information, you know.
So how are they getting contactwith you that? Yeah,
Dr. Robin Harwick (37:48):
you can send me an email at Dr Harwick at the
pearl high school.org
TD Flenaugh (37:53):
Okay, and is there anything that you can tell the
audience, like any last kind ofthings tips for them as they're
navigating the schooling fortheir child.
Dr. Robin Harwick (38:07):
I think one of the most important things is,
and this is so hard if you havemultiple children, or you know,
you're busy with work andeverything, but especially for
tweens and teens, when they wantto talk to you, you need to just
drop everything and listen, andoftentimes for teenagers and I,
like I said, I was a fosterparent before, it was always,
like, at 1030 after I brushed myteeth and already have my
(38:29):
pajamas on, Mom, it's really,really important, because that's
the time where they are saying,like, I feel open right now,
right and especially if you'rehaving a difficult time getting
your child to talk. You have tolisten to when they're ready,
and you also have to listen tothem talk about things that
might not be super interestingto you, but they're really
(38:52):
interesting to them. Yeah, andthose are those things where
you're saying like, I'm here andI'm present and I'm here for
you, and that's the way that wedemonstrate that to tweens and
teens, and, you know, just bybeing there when they're ready.
And then when you have theseother challenges that you need
to talk about, you know, like,tell me about and so asking
(39:14):
those questions, tell me aboutwhat's going on in math right
now, instead of, you know, Inoticed that you have a F F and
F, and you're you haven't turnedanything in, right? Like, yeah,
about, tell me about what'sgoing on, and listen to see
what's going you know, theirperception is their reality. If
the teacher is saying one thingand saying that's not true,
(39:35):
that's not happening, that's theway it feels to the I see nice
thing, and that's reallyimportant, because that's their
experience. It feels like thatteachers bullying me. It feels
like I'm being pushed to theside. It feels like I'm stupid,
right? So those are, those areall feeling real. And so the
more that we can say, like,Okay, I hear you. How can we
(39:56):
work through this together andbuild that collaboration? And.
TD Flenaugh (40:00):
That's such a great you know, like, such sage
advice, right? Like, because itis easy to say, like, no, the
teacher's not bullying you. Youactually didn't do this. Didn't
do that, you know. But justaccepting, like, listening like
I'm listening to you, andknowing like, that's their
perception. And we know that ourteenagers can have skewed
perception, but we don't have topoint that out, just helping to
(40:23):
help them work through it andthink through it. I think that's
so great. So thanks again forjoining us. Dr Robin Harwick,
and all the information is inthe show notes, and for our
audience and our listeners andour viewers out there, do
something today that's going togive your child the competitive
(40:43):
advantage. Have a great week.
Thanks again. Thank you. Thanksagain for supporting the falling
for learning podcast. NewEpisodes go live every Saturday
at 5pm you can watch us onyoutube.com at falling for
learning, or listen on all majorpodcast platforms such as Apple,
(41:05):
Google, Audible, Spotify andmuch more for more resources,
visit falling in love withlearning.com we really
appreciate you. Have a wonderfulweek.
Thank you so much for joining the Falling for
Learning Podcast. This episode,we are going to be interviewing
Dr Robin Harwick, and she is thefounder of a remote school, and
we're going to talk about howthis could be a good strategy
for your child, how you mightjoin her her school, and how she
(00:27):
fell in love with the learning.
Hi. Thank you so much forjoining the Falling for Learning
Podcast. We have this podcast tohelp parents and caregivers with
having the resources, strategiesand tools needed to make sure
that their children are on trackfor learning and to stay on
track for success. Thank you somuch. Dr Robin Harwick for
joining us. How are you doing?
Dr. Robin Harwick (00:52):
I'm doing well. Thank you for having me.
I'm excited for ourconversation.
TD Flenaugh (00:57):
Yes, me too. Let's get into what was it as a child
that had you fall in love withlearning?
Dr. Robin Harwick (01:06):
I always loved learning. I was a nerdy
kid. My joke is that I alwaysgot so many tattoos later in
life, so that people didn't knowwhat a nerd I was, and my
friends always said we stillknew. We still knew. You know, I
just I had a really naturalcuriosity, and I loved reading.
(01:26):
And, you know, I was the kid whoalways had a book in my hand,
and, you know, hiding out in myroom to finish the book and
everything like that.
Interesting, though I never knewthat I was going to become an
educator, even as much as Iloved learning. So I think it is
just like following my naturalcuriosity and my natural
passions, and then I would say,by fluke or by fate, here, here
I am.
TD Flenaugh (01:49):
Okay. Do you have educators in your family at all?
I do
Dr. Robin Harwick (01:53):
my my auntie was a principal, so again,
surprised that I didn't know Iwas going to be an educator, and
my great aunt was also ateacher. Yeah,
TD Flenaugh (02:02):
okay, I tend to see there's some kind of educator
lineage, even if it's if it's anon, if it's sometimes not
formal, right? But, you know,but yeah, okay, and so your
curiosity, tell us about youreducational journey like, you
Dr. Robin Harwick (02:24):
know, yeah, so, you know, I was labeled
gifted and talented in school,which we now are finding out
more and more, that really meantthat most of us were probably
neurodivergent and we didn'thave the language for it back
then. So the discourse for theyoung people today talking about
this has been really interestingfor me, but I was never
(02:46):
challenged in school. So I neverlearned study skills. I never I
showed up. I got good grades.
Nobody paid much attention tome. I graduated, and when I
tried college the first time, Ididn't persist. I thought that
would work just like highschool, and I didn't study, and
often didn't go to class andwent to take the tests and
(03:06):
failed.
TD Flenaugh (03:10):
Oh my. Okay, so that's where you met your first
kind of challenge, before that,you just were able to get it,
and so you didn't have, like achallenge. Like you didn't
really have the study. Wow,that's so interesting. And so
that that is something like, asparents we need to think about,
right? If our kid is justgetting things that we may need
(03:33):
to find some challenge for themso that later on, they could be
successful. So that's somethingthat maybe we they didn't think
about right? But luckily, youknow you, you said you tried
your first time and wasn'tsuccessful at college. Okay, so,
yeah, so what? So you werefailing? What happened next?
Unknown (03:52):
We'd like to back up a little bit. Oh, back, super
important, so about 25% of kidsthat are identified as gifted
and talented end up dropping outof high school. Yeah, and
exactly what you picked up on,what happened for me and for
many students that I've workedwith since, once you figure out
like I can only get an A I can'tgo beyond that, right? And
(04:19):
because of classroom sizes andother types of challenges.
Teachers might not even realizethat this, this student is not
being challenged, right? And sowe see it in behaviors. Kids
start getting in trouble inschool. They start, you know,
skipping school and all of thosekind of things. So for parents,
you know, they're listening,it's really important to figure
out, Is this like a it's becauseI can't do it and they need more
(04:43):
support, or is it because it isjust so easy for them, they are
not interested, right?
TD Flenaugh (04:48):
That's, that's something to really Yeah,
because, like you were saying,Dr Harwick is like, the teachers
might not connect with thatissue, but as a parent, you
need. To make sure that you aregiving them that challenge or
helping them to stay motivated.
And I think we don't talk aboutit enough, right, that we do
know that that's as an educatormyself, I know that that is a
(05:11):
statistic that our gifted andtalented students will drop out
like there's a percentage ofthem that will and so, you know,
just thinking about lovinglearning, right? And not just
getting the learning for thepurpose of getting that A and
one way it was described to metoo was like that growth mindset
(05:32):
versus the versus the fixedmindset, right? So once they
meet the challenge, sometimesit's like, what? And like, I
guess I'm not good at schoolanymore, rather than like,
because they haven't had thechallenge. Like, oh, well, maybe
I need to keep working on this.
(05:52):
Like, they don't have thatfixed, they don't have that
growth mindset. They're justlike, Okay, I'm done being good
at school because I failed thetest. And it's not that I need
to do better or work on it,because they haven't had to
before. So thank you so much forhighlighting that.
Dr. Robin Harwick (06:06):
Yeah, so going back to my journey. So I
dropped out, and I went and didother things, and then I decided
to go back when I was 25 and Idid my undergraduate. And then,
you know, life kind of went anddid life things, and then I went
back. I've always had a veryresearch brain, and I was
(06:28):
working at a research institute,and they said, well, don't you
want to get your PhD? And Idon't know, maybe I'm, you know,
from a working class background.
My mom was a factor worker, mydad was mechanic, you know,
like, Don't you want a PhD? AndI was like, Tell me more. Oh,
wow, yeah. And so mentors saidthat, you know, I really should
(06:50):
get one. And so I was the onlyperson in my cohort. I was older
in life by this time, right?
Kids and and they said, Well,you know, you can take classes
during your work day. And I waslike, Okay, well, this is
sounding more and moreinteresting. And so I finally
decided to go. But I was theonly one in my cohort in my
(07:12):
doctoral program that hadn't,like wanted a PhD. And I was
kind of like, this seems likeit's working out and learning.
I'm learning things I'm, youknow, getting to read. I'm
having this, this opportunity totalk with really knowledgeable
people about things that I careabout, which, you know, we're
(07:33):
kids that struggle like I didduring my transition into
adulthood and and I had seen somany people struggle during that
early, you know, young adultperiod that I wanted to get more
information so I could supportkids in their transition more
and, okay,
TD Flenaugh (07:50):
so that's your study, right? Your that was your
So, what is like? What do youget your PhD? And I understand
what your study was,
Dr. Robin Harwick (07:57):
but yeah, so it's secondary special ed in
transition. Okay, so
TD Flenaugh (08:01):
yes, and that's another thing that, I guess,
that people may not know, isthat Gifted and Talented
Students are also part of thespecial education under the
special education umbrella,right? So, yeah, exceptional
needs, or, like, maybe disabled,you know, a learning disability,
(08:22):
or something like that, they fitunder that same umbrella, yes,
okay, and so you were able to goback and talk to kids like
yourself, yeah.
Dr. Robin Harwick (08:33):
For my dissertation work, it was a
little bit unique, because I'veworked a lot with kids in the
child welfare system, so Ireally looked at the
intersection of child welfareand disability. So my
dissertation study was on thetransition to adulthood for
young adults with disabilities.
So you know, again, reallylooking at understanding what
worked well for kiddos that hada lot of circumstances beyond
(08:56):
their control.
TD Flenaugh (08:59):
And then can we go, like, because you're saying they
some students were gifted. Wereyou studying gifted students, or
students with disabilities, orrange of students,
Dr. Robin Harwick (09:08):
just a range of students? Yeah, okay, okay,
all right.
TD Flenaugh (09:12):
And where did you study?
Dr. Robin Harwick (09:15):
So at the University of Oregon, I've got
my master's and doctorate therein Eugene, Oregon.
TD Flenaugh (09:21):
Nice. Okay, and then those, so what was your
like career like after yourstep? Like? What kind of tell us
about your career?
Dr. Robin Harwick (09:32):
So, you know, again, I'm a curious person, and
I love learning, so my careertakes me in different paths. So
I have worked a lot in childwelfare. I've worked in
substance use disorder, workedin research. I've worked a lot
with tribes across the UnitedStates. And, you know, I'm
always looking for ways that Ican help solve systemic
(09:56):
problems, and anytime that Ithink about, you know. Here we
have these systemic problems andand we need more supports. We
need more services. We need moreresources. It always comes back
to education for me and this, Ilove your falling for learning.
I love the name of your podcastbecause Thank you. I was like,
Yes, this is what we need. Weneed well educated people to
(10:22):
help think through some of thechallenges that we're facing in
our society today, and we needpeople who have been
strategically marginalized bythe systems to have the
education they need to helpovercome some of the strategic
barriers that have been placedin front of us.
TD Flenaugh (10:39):
Yeah. So thank you so much. Yeah, we it's all about
that, falling in love withlearning, making it a pursuit, a
lifelong passion, things thatyou care about, and also about
being able to elevate, elevateyour community. So all of those
things. Okay, so tell us aboutyou have the school that you
founded. How did that comeabout?
Dr. Robin Harwick (11:00):
Yeah, so the pearl was born in 2020 so I had
tried a lot of different things.
I've worked at system level,doing teacher prep programs.
I've done professionaldevelopment with teachers, and
all of these kind of things. Andteachers have come back and they
say, Dr Harwick, we're mad atyou. And I said, and they said,
Well, we've tried some of thesethings that you've talked about
(11:21):
in our schools, and our adminsaid we can't do it. And I said,
okay, yeah, sure, right. And sohere we've got this structure
again. And, you know, again, I'ma research scientist. I have a
PhD in education, and so, youknow, what we're learning about
is evidence based practices. Andyou know, so what my teaching is
(11:42):
about is how to deliver evidencebased practices in school
settings. Yes, there's bearssaying you can't do that. You
can't do that. We also know thatthere's a gap between research
and practice of about 1315,years. Yes. So long story short,
I was teaching at an in personschool. As the pandemic hit, my
(12:03):
kiddo was going there as well,and I wasn't trying to say too
much about the experience I washaving in the school, because we
weren't using best practices.
Pedagogy was behind the times,because I seemed like my kid was
having a pretty good experience.
But then when we went intolockdown, he said, I'm done. I'm
going back to homeschooling. I'mnot doing this anymore. And so
(12:24):
he doesn't remember this,because it was 16, you know,
early in the morning for him,and he was making a quesadilla
and and I started ranting aboutthe school, because I was still
working there. I was determinedto finish the year, even though
we were online. And he's like,You should just start your own
school. What did you say?
TD Flenaugh (12:49):
Oh, from the mouths of babes, right?
Dr. Robin Harwick (12:52):
Remember?
Because he was like, early inthe morning, and 16, you know?
And so I pitch it online andsaid, You know, I'm thinking
about starting a remotedemocratic school, and within 24
hours, I had 100 Do it, do it,do it. And so that was April 16
of 2020 we launched in the fallof 2020
TD Flenaugh (13:10):
Okay, so who did you? Who did you send this out
to,
Dr. Robin Harwick (13:15):
just on Facebook? You know, it was just
like one of those Facebookposts. And, you know, I
carefully craft Facebook post,which I think are going to be so
insightful, and crickets, butthis was just like a flip it,
like I'm going to start thisschool. And I was like, Do it,
do it. Do it. And so I did love
TD Flenaugh (13:30):
that. Okay, wow. So tell me about this name. Okay,
so
Dr. Robin Harwick (13:39):
there's a couple reasons for the name one
as a child, I love pearls. Ilove that you had to go through
the muck to get them, okay, andand then it was hard for to find
them. And I was always reallyattracted to them. And I was
never attracted to like diamondsor anything like that, but
pearls were always reallyspecial to me. I also had the
(13:59):
honor and privilege of studyingwith Dr art Perl at the
University of Oregon. And he andhis partner, you know, research
partner, wrote the democraticclassroom theory to inform
practice. So literally, thebook, when I was in grad school
and I was so upset about like,things I was seeing in the
education system, everybodysaid, You need to go talk to Dr
(14:20):
pearl. He was probably 85 or 86at that time, and had been
retired for years. So they said,You're gonna love him, because
he can say whatever he wants
TD Flenaugh (14:31):
forever, right?
Like, what are you gonna
Dr. Robin Harwick (14:34):
do? What are they gonna do? So I met with
him. We bonded immediately. Istarted reading the book, which
was written in 1999 and therewas this roadmap of how we could
do education better. And I waslike, we don't need another
study, another intervention.
Like, it's right here. Somebodyjust needs to do this.
TD Flenaugh (14:59):
I. The rewrite method and the rewrite method
workbook are your go to resourcefor helping kids to learn to
fall in love with writing. Ithas the tips, tools, resources,
strategies and skill buildingactivities to help kids fall out
(15:25):
of writing Hoot and into lovingto write. Get your book set
today. YouTD, this episode is going to
include Tiffany's tips. She is ahomeschooling mom. She's been on
(15:47):
our show before, and she's goingto give us some tips about what
she does. She's a mom of three,and we're going to get some tips
from her on how to get ourchildren the competitive
advantage. What have you beenthinking about?
Tiffany Curry (16:05):
One thing that comes to mind is this book that
is called 30 million wordsbuilding a child's brain. Oh,
that's good, yeah, it goes intohow much words help the brain
development. And it's talksabout how, when you start from
before they can even talk, whenthey're just babies babbling.
(16:27):
You know how babies babble? AndI often see people going, Oh,
really, what happened baby, youknow, engaging with the baby's
babbles and maybe copying whatthey're doing. If they're going,
bah, bah, bah, bah, you go, bah,bah, bah, bah, you know to
that's also communicating andhelping develop their brain, and
(16:50):
it just talks about how the morewords they know, the more that
they'll have, like you said,that competitive advantage and
the more their brains willdevelop and help them as they
grow up. And, yeah, I liked howthey kind of broke down this
point of how to go about doingthis. And they called it tune
(17:14):
in, talk more and take turns.
Okay, the tune in aspect is,let's say you have a child
that's like building blocks,right? And you notice that
they're, it's getting tall, andyou just go over and you kind of
notice what they're doing andseem excited about it and
interested, yeah, oh, wow. I seeyou have red and green and blue.
(17:37):
Wow. This is really tall. Howtall is it going to be just kind
of tuning in and observing whatthey're doing? But the talk more
aspect of it is about how youcan just respond to them when
you, let's say, you want them todo something like put your shoes
(17:57):
on instead of just sparkingorders, get your shoes on, we
gotta go, maybe saying, hey, weneed to get our shoes on so that
our feet aren't closed when wego outside, or so that our toes
don't get wet because it'sraining out. So we got to get
our shoes on. So you're going toput one foot in and another
(18:18):
footing you have two feet, youknow, engaging in conversation,
okay, narrating what's going on.
You know, I love to take my son,who's three, to the grocery
store, and we have a ballbecause I'm in there talking
about everything that we see,everything that I pick up. We're
going over colors, we're goingover numbers. We're noticing the
(18:42):
letters in the store, you know,it's a whole learning
experience, but we're justshopping for groceries, you
know?
TD Flenaugh (18:51):
And that really, really highlights, like, one of
the things like this book iscalled 30 million words. And for
those of you who don't know outthere that many kids come to
school behind, right? And thisshoe, this show, is all about
giving kids the competitiveadvantage and to the way to not
(19:13):
have them behind is actuallytalking having that vocabulary.
And so, you know what Tiffany issaying is the opposite of
barking orders, put your shoeson, sit down, be quiet, instead
having conversations and talkingmore and more about why we're
doing things, what we see how todo things, and that really helps
(19:40):
grow the child's vocabulary,because when we only bark orders
at kids really don't engage withthem in conversation. They have
limited vocabulary and limitedunderstanding about why they're
doing things, and so that 30million word at. Believe that's
a 30 million word gap orsomething, right? Or yeah, that
(20:04):
the kids have because you'vejust said, sit down. Be quiet.
Stop, don't instead of likeshe's saying, we need to put our
shoes on, because we our feetmight get dirty. Our feet might
get hurt if we don't have anyshoes on, it's time for us to
go, and this is how we getready. We put three things on,
(20:25):
we put on shoes, we put on ourcoat, we put on our hat or
something, you know, and itkeeps our ears warm and our head
warm and all of those words islike, Oh, that's a lot of
talking, but that's what ourkids need to have that
competitive advantage ratherthan the opposite side of that
is a disadvantage, with notunderstanding, not having the
(20:48):
words, not having the reasoning.
Tiffany Curry (20:51):
Yes, and I do want to add that the book is
called 30 million words buildinga child's brain by Dr Dana
suskin You, skin
Dr. Robin Harwick (21:04):
art was very dedicated to public schools, and
so when I decided I wanted to dothis and I wanted to call the
pearl, I reached out to hisfamily and said, because he had
passed a few years before, and Isaid, I have this idea. I know
your dad wouldn't be thrilled ifit wasn't in public school, but
I think this is the time to dothis differently, and we'll
(21:26):
become a nonprofit and havesliding scale so that we can
make sure that we live in thespirit of Dr Pearl and his his
daughter said, I'm in what do weneed to do? And then his
granddaughter was one of ourfirst students.
TD Flenaugh (21:42):
Oh, my goodness, yeah, that is amazing. I just
want to say, like, one thingthat is a big issue with
education is a lot of peoplehave opinions about it and
affect policy. You know, there'sresearchers that may not have
been classroom teachers. May nothave worked at a school, but
(22:04):
they may have their doctoraldegree in education, but there
are people who make policies,laws and everything, and, you
know, put it in on a school,right? But they don't really
have information from classroompractitioners, right? Maybe they
talk to a researcher orsomething. So there's this huge
(22:25):
gap, like you said, betweenresearch policy and actually the
practice that's going on inschools. And you know, that is a
huge issue. And I make it akinto, like, if you know, it
doesn't matter the design.
Designer, if I come and designyour house, you could be a world
renowned designer if I nevertalk to you about your house,
(22:47):
how you use it, thefunctionality, how you use your
space, what you would you liketo use your space? You have this
great design, but it justdoesn't work for you, right?
Because you didn't, I didn't.
You know, you didn't tell methat. Oh, I like this space for
reading, and I need a space hereto do yoga, and I need to do,
you know, so somebody else, likethey may need a workout room
(23:09):
that has weights in it, or it'sjust different ways that people
use space and that's practicalfor your family. And you know,
the same thing with teaching.
They're coming in designing ourclassrooms or our policies, and
they don't even know what weneed. And then it's so
different, depending on theclass for that year, right?
(23:29):
Because the last year's classcould be totally different, same
subject, same age, but differentgroup of kids need something a
little different. And you know,even then, different classes,
different school settings,different, you know, cultures,
there's just so many things thatyou know really are specific
(23:51):
that policies don't always fitto and again, they're not even
talking to any teacher, a lot ofthem, let alone, like a specific
teacher, you know, so it's soI'm glad that there's someone
out there that's actuallyputting those boots on the
ground and putting that researchinto practice. So thank you so
(24:12):
much for doing
Dr. Robin Harwick (24:15):
that. And to your point, I also teach at the
school, because I never wantedto be one of those academics or
admins that you're like. Whenwas the last time you talked to
a kid? 1982
TD Flenaugh (24:29):
but I've got my PhD.
Dr. Robin Harwick (24:33):
I mean, the language, the, you know, the
slang, the music, all of those,yes, right. Hero in admins and
professors that haven't beenaround kids, because the stories
they tell are not relevant fortoday's youth, right? So, like,
I have to learn about what videogames are into and all of these
kind of things. But the otherthing for my for my teachers,
(24:55):
when they say, Well, I don'tknow if we can, I say, Well, you
can, because. Is right and I'mdoing this, and would you like
to hear different ways that Iincorporate differentiated
instruction? So differentiatedinstruction is mandatory for
every single kid. So for parentsthat aren't aware of that kind
of language, that means that wehave class, classes capped at 10
(25:19):
students, and teachers need tochange the way that they're
giving instruction to make surethat every kiddo in that
classroom gets the informationthey need to be successful.
TD Flenaugh (25:31):
Say that again, 10 kids, that's amazing. I love
that.
Dr. Robin Harwick (25:36):
You know, we're online, and so 10 is kind
of the magic number. And I've,I've taught graduate students
at, you know, 1215, and and Ireally like 10, because nobody
can fade away. And so for theshy kids, I say, you know,
there's only eight of you in theclass today, and when you were
(25:58):
in the class of 30, I know youcould fade to the back and
nobody noticed you. But ifyou're not talking, there's
eight of you, I can, I cannotice that you're not
TD Flenaugh (26:07):
talking with us.
Yeah, that's amazing. Okay, canyou tell us about the makeup of
like, your demographics that arein your school? What kind what
is the demographic? What type ofdemographics do you have in
Dr. Robin Harwick (26:21):
your school?
So about over 60% of ourstudents identify as bipoc.
About 65% of our studentsidentify as neurodivergent.
That's the category that theyprefer. It can look like autism,
ADHD, learning disabilities. Sothat's kind of their blanket
they chose, and this is part ofwhat we do, is we co create with
(26:44):
them. We co created thedemographics form with them, and
neuro divergent is what theyprefer. So many of our students
who have come to us have beenbullied in and had experienced
microaggressions in publicschool settings and some in
private school settings, as wellas your listeners may know,
oftentimes the demographics ofthe teachers don't match the
(27:06):
demographics of the students,and so our students come to us,
and many of them have reallyshut down, and they've lost that
love of learning. And when theycome into our school, I say to
them, to our teachers, I waslike, so, so, so, gentle,
gentle, gentle. And I tell theparents, you're not going to see
a flurry of activity right awaywith, you know, some of the
kiddos, because we have to buildour trust and our relationship
(27:29):
with them. And you know, I tellthe teachers, too, they're not
going to trust you, and theyshouldn't, because they have
learned in other systems thatthey can't trust that teacher
see Adam. So we build thatrelationship first, then we dig
in. But a key piece of what wedo is reigniting that spark,
helping them find out, what dothey love. And many kids who
(27:52):
have been in kind of mainstreamsettings, when I say like so,
part of what you get to do withthe pearl is you get to study
stuff that you're into. What areyou into? And they say, so what
do you mean? That's amazing.
Yeah. They say, I don't know. Idon't know what I'm into. Like,
nobody's ever asked me thatbefore. No, yeah, we have a lot
(28:14):
of you know, again, from italigns with the data, 10th
graders, right? 10th graders whocome to us and they say, I'm
done, I'm just done with school.
So they come to us and I'm like,but what do you want to learn?
And they're like, I have noidea, because I've tried, and my
day was so full, and I was justtrying to check off boxes and do
what need to be done. So I don'tknow what I like. And so we help
(28:36):
them explore and find whatthey're passionate about. And
this is like early careerexploration without being
explicitly telling, yes, we'regoing to let you think about
your career. We're not eventhere yet. We're just like, What
do you like? What do you enjoy?
What are you interested in? Andthey get to try different things
out. And then our job as ateacher, and this is the
(28:56):
democratic part. If I know a kidwho's really into music, but
really afraid of math, then themath teacher's role is like,
Well, how do I incorporatemusic? Yes, absolutely interest
to get them excited. And in myclasses, like, we're we're doing
geography, and we're doinggeography through the lens of
(29:18):
music. So we're going to belooking at migration patterns
and how music changes whengroups of people, you know, come
together and and so that'll beour, our kind of lens as we move
through the Americas in in thefall,
TD Flenaugh (29:33):
oh, you said Fall 2020. Is when you started. Okay?
And is it a, it's a high school,correct? So nine to 12, um,
Dr. Robin Harwick (29:40):
but we actually, we have to change our
name, because we do offereducational choices to middle
schoolers as well. So I have hadthree now middle schoolers that
have come to me, set up ameeting to meet me by zoom and
say, I don't want to wait. Iwant to be in your school now.
And if. A 13 year old is willingto meet with a stranger and say,
(30:03):
I need to be in your school. NowI said, Well, let's, let's try.
It works beautifully, becauseMiddle School, as you know, as
an educator, is such a pivotalmoment, and that's when the
tension so if the family washomeschooling, yeah, it was a
beautiful relationship. And nowall of a sudden, you know, mom
is like but they love doing thiswith me, and it's natural part
(30:26):
of their development. And soit's really helpful to partner
with other programs so that youmaintain your relationship, and
you're not fighting aboutalgebra, right? Because that's
your parenting experience to be
TD Flenaugh (30:41):
absolutely I think it's notable that you brought
that up, because, yes, that'salso why filing for learning is
here, because there are changesthat our kids go through. Like
everything's great in secondgrade, third grade, or whatever.
They might be great in highschool, but middle school, but,
you know, whatever like it maytake partners. It may take,
(31:03):
like, just knowing certainstrategies or different things.
It depends on your kid, whatthey need, but being aware that
that is normal, that they'regoing to go through changes, and
what they thought was wonderfulbefore, they may not even care
about or maybe embarrassed thatyou brought it up now.
Dr. Robin Harwick (31:21):
And so, you know, we are a partnership, and
we work with kiddos and withfamilies to help them navigate
this very difficult time indevelopment. And you know, for
some of our students with ADHD,they really want to do it on
their own. They don't want theirparents involved in their
schooling anymore. And so wesay, oh, let's, let's try it
(31:42):
out. Let's, you know, I can showyou some different tools that
may work for you. Are youwilling to try these? Do you
want to try it your own way? Andthen we help them learn how to
advocate. And sometimes, youknow, depending on kind of
what's going on with them andwhere they are, and learning
about themselves and how theirbrain works, sometimes they go,
You know what? It would bereally helpful if my mom reminds
(32:02):
me, I said, Okay, would you likeme to contact her? Would you
like to talk with her yourself?
And it really depends. It can goboth ways. But now it's not a
power dynamic between the kiddoand the parent. Now it's the
kiddo saying, You know what? Ithink I've identified some help
that I need. Yeah, would like toask my mom. And moms are so
excited, they're like, I get tocheck Google Classroom, right?
(32:23):
And we give a little coaching oflike, how, how could that look
so that it doesn't feel like,you know, you're all in my
business. It's more about, youknow, I'm here to support you.
And remember, this is somethingthat you identified, that you
could use for now. And then whenyou don't need it anymore, I can
fade
TD Flenaugh (32:44):
away. Yes, that's such a tough balance for some
parents, because I thinksometimes that hands off
approach, the kids may not doany work, or, you know, I've
heard of some that they didn'trealize they were doing no work.
And then, of course, you don'twant to do too much, because you
want them to gain theindependence, and you know, so
you're trying to find that happymedium. So that's, that's great,
Dr. Robin Harwick (33:07):
yeah. So, you know, we find that our kids
learn to be better selfadvocates. They learn what they
need, they they feel safe to betheir beautiful, authentic
selves. Yeah, and then parentsshare with us that, you know,
things are just better at homenow too, when we're not
constantly fighting aboutschool, constantly fighting to
(33:29):
get them up, constantly fightingto get them to school,
constantly fighting about thehomework and fighting and
fighting and fighting and youknow, I always remind parents
like all of that iscommunication, and kiddos don't
often have all the words todescribe what's going on with
school and and what's happeningthere, and how they're feeling
about it. And so, you know, youask, well, you know, how was it
(33:50):
today? It was fine, but thebehavior saying it's not fine
because they're not succeedingand they're they're not doing
their homework, and we can't getthem out the door and all of
these things. So you have tolook at that behavior like, what
is, what is the need that thatchild is communicating with
their behavior? And this issomething that, you know, we
bring into the classroom too. Wewant to make sure that the the
(34:13):
kiddos learning needs are met sothey don't get frustrated, they
don't struggle. And also, forthose people that are really
sailing. And you know, they'reso accelerated that they're
still getting those challengesto help prepare them for college
as well, so that they they knowhow to navigate when they're
given an educational challenge.
TD Flenaugh (34:33):
Okay, so can you tell me like you take people
from around the the country,around the United States, other
countries as well,
Dr. Robin Harwick (34:42):
and it changes. So I love when you were
talking about the cohorts,because each cohort kind of has
a personality. We had onecohort. Most of them have gone
on and graduated and are doingother things, but at one time,
we had students from sevencountries, and that was really
fantastic, because it. Is trulya multicultural experience for
all of our kiddos. Yeah, we doaccept students from all over
(35:05):
the United States. We kind offocus on the Americas because it
just works better with the timezone. Through the school choice
programs, we can receive directfunding from the state of Utah,
Arizona, West Virginia and NewHampshire. So if you have
listeners in those states, thestate will help cover tuition.
Like I said, we do have limitedsliding scale scholarships for
(35:28):
those kids who really say, like,this is where I need to be. We
want to not turn, you know,teens away that say we're the
right school for them. So wealways try to make it work.
Yeah, and, you know, we welcomesixth
TD Flenaugh (35:43):
through 12th grade.
So let's say I have a child thatwants to attend your school or
is interested, because we're notsure. Like, how would I, like,
you know, with a in personschool, I could do a school
tour. Like, how do I how would aparent navigate being adjoining
part of your school or just evenchecking it out to see if it's a
(36:04):
viable option? Maybe,
Dr. Robin Harwick (36:07):
yeah. So parents go to our website. It's
the pearl high school.org Thereis a button on there that says,
meet with the director. That'sme. And so you can schedule an
appointment directly on mycalendar and we can talk. I love
it when the interested studentcomes to that meeting. Sometimes
they don't, sometimes it's theparents kind of check me out.
(36:27):
First talk about the school and,you know, see whether or not it
seems like a good match. Andthen the student will meet with
me. The students always welcometo meet with me, independently
or with a family, whatever theywant. I say I work with teens
all day, and so I'm totally finewith the students grilling me
and asking me tons of questionsand being suspicious and not
(36:48):
Yeah, this sounds too good to betrue. Is this for real? So,
yeah. So then we work to seewhether or not it seems like
it's a good fit, and then thestudents enroll if they choose
to be with us. We also, youknow, sometimes students want to
talk to another student, and sowe can arrange that, you know,
(37:09):
if they want to meet a couple ofthe other teachers, if there's
one particular class that theysay, Well, I'm looking at this
school because it's the onlyschool that I can find that has
Japanese, you know, and theywant to teacher, they can meet
the teacher as well.
TD Flenaugh (37:21):
That's amazing. So we are, you know, I'm definitely
all that's in the show notes,please, you know, get in contact
with Dr Robin Harwick and tellus the name of the school,
again, the whole name,
Dr. Robin Harwick (37:35):
yeah, it's the pearl remote democratic High
School. Okay?
TD Flenaugh (37:39):
And so give us your contact information, you know.
So how are they getting contactwith you that? Yeah,
Dr. Robin Harwick (37:48):
you can send me an email at Dr Harwick at the
pearl high school.org
TD Flenaugh (37:53):
Okay, and is there anything that you can tell the
audience, like any last kind ofthings tips for them as they're
navigating the schooling fortheir child.
Dr. Robin Harwick (38:07):
I think one of the most important things is,
and this is so hard if you havemultiple children, or you know,
you're busy with work andeverything, but especially for
tweens and teens, when they wantto talk to you, you need to just
drop everything and listen, andoftentimes for teenagers and I,
like I said, I was a fosterparent before, it was always,
like, at 1030 after I brushed myteeth and already have my
(38:29):
pajamas on, Mom, it's really,really important, because that's
the time where they are saying,like, I feel open right now,
right and especially if you'rehaving a difficult time getting
your child to talk. You have tolisten to when they're ready,
and you also have to listen tothem talk about things that
might not be super interestingto you, but they're really
(38:52):
interesting to them. Yeah, andthose are those things where
you're saying like, I'm here andI'm present and I'm here for
you, and that's the way that wedemonstrate that to tweens and
teens, and, you know, just bybeing there when they're ready.
And then when you have theseother challenges that you need
to talk about, you know, like,tell me about and so asking
(39:14):
those questions, tell me aboutwhat's going on in math right
now, instead of, you know, Inoticed that you have a F F and
F, and you're you haven't turnedanything in, right? Like, yeah,
about, tell me about what'sgoing on, and listen to see
what's going you know, theirperception is their reality. If
the teacher is saying one thingand saying that's not true,
(39:35):
that's not happening, that's theway it feels to the I see nice
thing, and that's reallyimportant, because that's their
experience. It feels like thatteachers bullying me. It feels
like I'm being pushed to theside. It feels like I'm stupid,
right? So those are, those areall feeling real. And so the
more that we can say, like,Okay, I hear you. How can we
(39:56):
work through this together andbuild that collaboration? And.
TD Flenaugh (40:00):
That's such a great you know, like, such sage
advice, right? Like, because itis easy to say, like, no, the
teacher's not bullying you. Youactually didn't do this. Didn't
do that, you know. But justaccepting, like, listening like
I'm listening to you, andknowing like, that's their
perception. And we know that ourteenagers can have skewed
perception, but we don't have topoint that out, just helping to
(40:23):
help them work through it andthink through it. I think that's
so great. So thanks again forjoining us. Dr Robin Harwick,
and all the information is inthe show notes, and for our
audience and our listeners andour viewers out there, do
something today that's going togive your child the competitive
(40:43):
advantage. Have a great week.
Thanks again. Thank you. Thanksagain for supporting the falling
for learning podcast. NewEpisodes go live every Saturday
at 5pm you can watch us onyoutube.com at falling for
learning, or listen on all majorpodcast platforms such as Apple,
(41:05):
Google, Audible, Spotify andmuch more for more resources,
visit falling in love withlearning.com we really
appreciate you. Have a wonderfulweek.
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