September 11, 2024 • 55 mins
In this episode of 'The Family Ties,' co-hosts Frank Abdul Shahid and Farida Abdul Tawwad Brown explore the essence of childhood innocence and its critical role in societal development. They discuss the emotional and intellectual growth of children, the necessity of protective community structures, and the impact of moral and social frameworks on ensuring a bright future for the next generation. Key topics include the moral responsibility to maintain the innocence of children, the role of family and community institutions in supporting children’s dreams, the consequences of societal perversions on the young, and the significance of good manners and civility. The discussion also touches on real-world tragedies such as school shootings to illustrate the urgent need for better community and educational support systems.
00:00 Welcome to The Family Ties Podcast
01:34 Reflecting on Childhood Innocence
07:01 Challenges in Education and Society
12:13 The Role of Family and Community
21:54 Innocence and Perversion in Modern Society
52:32 The Importance of Good Manners and Civility
54:37 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
This podcast is about family life as a means to address current problems in American society. A scripture based African American perspective.
Welcome to The Family Ties, a Prescription for Society.
Through this experience we invite you to join us in an exploration of the concept of family ties as a prescription for society.
YOUR HOSTS: Frank Abdul Shaheed &
Faridah Abdul-Tawwab Brown
This episode was edited by Darryl D Anderson of AMG - Ambassador Media Group visit https://www.ambassador-mediagroup.com/
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Creative Commons / Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International (CC BY-SA 4.0)
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Copyright 2024
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Frank (00:15):
Peace be upon the family, as we welcome you to another
experience of The Family Ties, aprescription for society.
I am your co host, Frank AbdulShahid.
Faridah (00:26):
And I am your co host, Farida Abdul Tawad Brown.
Before we get started, don'tforget to subscribe so you can
stay up to date and get all thelatest episodes.
Frank (00:36):
So welcome back to another episode of this
wonderful podcast known as thefamily ties, the prescription
for society.
And yes, indeed, we believe thatthere is a prescription for the
ills of society and there arethe family ties.
So far to my esteemed cohost.
Welcome back.
Faridah (00:56):
Thank you.
It's great to be back here withyou again.
Frank (01:00):
So as we have been recording and uploading and
presenting to our wonderfulesteemed audience and dignified
audience.
The many episodes that we havebeen able to record and share
with this wonderful audiencejust wanted to get a little bit
of feedback from you and thefeedback that I want is
something very specific.
(01:20):
So when we began this journey onthis wonderful podcast that we
created we had a design and wehad a dream and we had a future
for it.
We had an aim and a destiny forthis.
Oftentimes in our innocence.
I see children and I seechildren with that same level of
(01:41):
innocence, just innocence intheir life, and they go about
their lives, just back and forthin and out with no care in the
world, except what's the verynext thing that they want to do.
And oftentimes they might notknow what the next step is or
the next thing that they want.
They're just stimulated by theirenvironment.
But when you sit down and justlook at a child and just have a
(02:02):
conversation with the child andyou, you talk to them and you
let them tell you exactly.
What it is that they want to do,you know, if they just kind of
just go on and on and on and onand on, and it's, and you're,
and you're smiling, thinking,well, you know what, you have
the possibility to do all ofthose great things, but in
reality, in reality, you know,do we believe that we have the
(02:25):
structures in place?
Do we have the materialresources in place?
Do we have the communitydevelopment in place?
Do we have all of the necessary.
Opportunities in place for achild with those bright
illuminated eyes, with thesegreat ideas, with this great
(02:48):
ball of energy to have thesethings done and to come into
life.
Do we have everything that weneed that at the end of their
life, they still have that samebrightness in their eyes?
That same excitement in theirvoice, that same level of energy
to be able to know that they'vecome to the fruition and the
(03:08):
fulfillment of those wonderfuldreams that they had as a child.
Do you think we have all of thatin place?
Currently.
Faridah (03:18):
Whew.
That, that is a, that's a heavyquestion.
You know I, I listened to you,you know, describe the wonder,
the, the shining eyes, the, thehearts and the minds full, the
elasticity of their brains thatare full of, of, of possibility
and prospects for themselves.
(03:38):
I, I think, you know, to my ownchildren and my nephew, I
remember, you know, my, mydaughter and my nephew when they
were very young children and I.
And I homeschooled themtogether.
And I remember taking walksthrough the, you know, wooded
paths and going to the, youknow, state parks and you know,
they'd walk on logs and turnover rocks.
And I was seeing everythingthrough their eyes.
(04:00):
This was, I mean, the absoluteprivilege of being able to
witness the world.
through the, the curious andhopeful eyes of, of children is,
it's a privilege.
And it's also it's somethingthat keeps you attuned to the
fact that our future lies withinthem because they have the
(04:21):
ability to see the world andit's all of its possibilities,
right?
I think, so when you say that, Ithink about my two of my
children One of whom would liketo be a either a pediatrician or
a veterinarian.
She can't decide between humansor animals.
Mm-Hmm.
And the other she she, she loveslanguage.
You know, she wants to studylanguages.
(04:42):
You know, she wants to study thelanguage of scripture, but she
also wants to study otherlanguages just to converse and
understand more about humanity.
And they see those possibilitiesfor themselves as if they can
absolutely come true.
And what.
Her father and I do, my husbandand I do, we stay awake, you
know.
working hard to make sure thatwe're putting structures in
(05:06):
place that those dreams can berealized.
We realize that we're like theskeleton for the flesh of their
dreams.
You know, I remember theLangston Hughes poem that we
referenced a few episodes ago,you know, of what happens to a
dream deferred and that, Thatdream, that hope in the Quran,
in the scripture of the Muslims,there's a term called Milat.
(05:28):
And it's, it's related toAbraham and it's, it's the, the
hope of Abraham.
Sometimes it's translated evenas the way, and that's, that's
what I think of when I think of.
our children and their hopes anddreams.
That's a pathway.
And it's a pathway that we, asthe leaders in their life, their
(05:49):
parents are the leader, offerleadership.
And then, you know, theseconcentric circles of of care
and concern, we offer leadershipto secure those pathways, this
way of looking at the world thatsees what's going on.
possibility that as they growolder, you know, those bones
will become more rigid as theygive more form to their dreams.
(06:10):
And so they'll realize thatthere are certain things that
have to happen in a certain way,but always maintaining the
flesh, the meatiness, thehopefulness of that, that
possibility for human life.
Frank (06:22):
Yes.
Faridah (06:22):
But I mentioned my husband and I, because I think
that we are working very hardand we're working together to
try to ensure the dreams of our.
our daughters, but we can't doit.
We're doing that with the helpof our parents, our siblings,
our extended network of familyand friends, because we realized
their dreams are not going to berealized by what their parents
(06:47):
alone can provide.
It requires a community ofpeople working to secure the, as
you said, the institutions thatare necessary to give those,
those dreams a form and astructure.
And sadly, when I think aboutthe larger picture for the
(07:07):
children of the world, butparticularly the children of
America and then AfricanAmerican children in particular,
I I am, I see that we haveabandoned the moral
responsibility to establish thatinfrastructure.
(07:30):
I think about it in the light ofthese recent tragedies that we
have here in the United Statesof America.
In Winder, Georgia, there was arecent school shooting where
four precious human beings losttheir lives, two teachers and
two precious young children,young adults.
to adolescents.
(07:51):
I think they were either 14 or15 years old, lost their lives
senselessly at the hands of a 15year old, a 14 or 15 year old
student.
Also elsewhere here in, inMaryland, Joppatown, Maryland,
there was a shooting in thebathroom inside a school in
Joppatown and a young man losthis life.
(08:11):
And so when I consider these, Ithink of schools, our
educational institutions, theyare part of that infrastructure
that helps our dreams are, thathelps.
to give form to the dreams andthe hopes of the next
generation.
And what we're finding is thatthe young people have been
influenced in a way and theinstitutions have become what's
(08:33):
the best word to use?
The institutions have become Iguess disempowered is a word,
but they've become impotent.
Frank (08:42):
I would say they don't have
Faridah (08:44):
the power.
Okay.
That, that's a good word.
That that's that's go ahead andexplain why you why you would
use the word compromise, becauseI think we're on the same
wavelength, but I'd like to hearthat.
Frank (08:56):
Absolutely.
So I use the term compromisebecause.
There was a desire, there was adesign for a particular effort,
you know, and as I'm, I prefacedit with the child, you know, the
child has an idea of what theywant to do and in their mind,
this is what their life shouldbe for them as they take each
(09:18):
step in no part of theirthinking, do they even will even
consider that something will getin the way of them attaining the
goal that they want.
But when something gets in theway of that, either it could
develop something in the childto make the child more resilient
to greater steps to attain it,or it could make the child
(09:41):
decide that that's not the goal.
And it makes me look at anothergoal.
So it's not my own nature that'stelling me that this isn't good.
Something has come andinfluenced me to tell me that I
should just look someplace else.
And I'm using that, thatinfluence to determine for me
what is good versus my very ownnature.
So I think the school system ina lot of senses.
(10:04):
Have lost it's it's way is lost.
It's true effort and design forour Children.
So thus, I would say it wascompromised whether it was
something that was donepurposefully to take the
Children away from the goodnature or a diabolical plan was
enacted and now has taken ourChildren away from them being
(10:25):
them.
Able to see their future come tofruition.
So I think compromise in thatsense can kind of go either way
without indicting it on a wholeas being such a bad thing.
So I think compromise was alittle bit more favorable.
Faridah (10:40):
Thank you for clarifying that.
You know, I, I brought up those,this.
senseless tragedies, you know,that, that we have become more
and more commonplace in ourcountry, in our nation.
But I brought it up because wetypically see the institution
of, of the institutions ofeducation, as complementary to
(11:04):
the role of the family or theparents in the life of a child.
So you're looking at, you know,the first teacher of the child
is usually the mother.
The first teachers are theparents, right?
You have the mother and father,you have the womb or the culture
of the family life of what themother and father together with
the, you know, grandparents andothers are providing and
(11:27):
modeling for.
the young people.
And then you, as parents, youknow, not so much in the
American public school context,you know you're choosing where
your child goes.
So for those of us who have the,you know, the privilege and the
opportunity to homeschool or canafford private schooling, we're
choosing what we think are thebest environments for our
(11:48):
children.
For the vast majority ofAmericans, based on your
geographical location, you havean, you know, a school that your
child is geographically zonedfor.
And therefore the choice wouldhave to come in where you decide
to to live, right?
So a lot of parents are makingthat decision as well.
And that's, that's based onwhere they're choosing to live
(12:10):
so that they can choose aparticular school system.
But I brought that up to saythat if the schools themselves
are compromised, then that isbecause that that is a secondary
institution for the support ofour children's dreams, for the
securing of these pathways torecognition and realization of
their hopes and possibilitiesfor themselves, then we have to
(12:32):
look at what that's pointing usto.
And it's pointing us to the factthat the primary.
The primary incubator for thelife of the child, for securing
the child's interest and wellbeing in the society, something
must be compromised in thatinstitution as well.
And I think that's verypertinent to our discussion here
on the family ties, becausewe're bringing the conversation
(12:55):
right back around to this, thecentrality, the uniqueness of
the family institution.
As a tradition, I think I wouldventure to say the oldest
tradition in human, the humanexperience, which has shown
itself to be over thousands ofyears of human existence, it has
(13:17):
demonstrated itself to be thesingle Well, not the single
most, but after you know, our,our witness and our allegiance
to our creator, the institutionof the family has shown itself
demonstrated itself to be acritical factor for success of
the human being.
And so, To the extent that thatinstitution, that tradition,
(13:40):
that that has borne witness toits success, its success is
witnessed by the history and theannals of human history, the
extent to which it's compromisedis something which we have to to
look at with a moral eye.
Frank (13:56):
Yes.
Faridah (13:56):
And yeah, I think that's where we are right now
when it comes to securing theinterests of our children, their
hopes and their dreams.
Frank (14:03):
I totally agree.
And we'll get back to some ofthe points that you made
specifically about, you know,the school settings and what's
going on in the school.
But there's a song that I wantto, I want to reference really
quickly.
There are several songsactually, but this particular
one just literally just poppedin my mind.
(14:25):
When I think of brightness inthe eyes of a child, I don't
think there is another childthat I can recognize that has
such brightness in their eyes,then the young man that we've
come to know as Michael Jackson.
So when Michael Jackson was veryyoung with the Jackson 5, and
(14:47):
he's, 10, 11, 12.
And you see this child command astage like an adult.
The look in Michael Jackson'seyes was so bright and it just,
just nothing was going to stopthis guy.
He was just, just an amazinghuman.
He was, we were definitelyblessed to have him as, as part
(15:10):
of our cultural expressions,part of our expression as, as
humans.
But I look at his eyes and justsee how bright Michael Jackson's
eyes were when he was much, muchyounger, but he had a, he had a
song called with the child'sheart and it talked about the
heart of a child and part of thelyrics go with a child's heart,
(15:31):
go face the worries of the daywith the child's heart, turn
each problem into play, no needto worry.
No need to fear just being alivemakes it all so very clear with
the child heart.
Nothing can ever get you downwith the child heart.
(15:53):
You've got no reason to frown.
And if you watch Childrenwhatever setbacks that they have
and in an instant, they're backto the, to the good, bright and
humorous nature of a innocenceof a child.
You could take something awayfrom a child.
You can discipline the child.
You can do all these things to achild and you can see them
(16:14):
disturbed, but almostinstantaneously, they're back.
Through that purity of aninnocence of a child looking at
you again with that desire of,Hey, I completely trust you.
I completely put my faith in inyou and, and I, and I expect you
to take me to the destiny.
Like they have that, that look.
(16:36):
So I referenced earlier abouthaving that look in a child, but
also having that same look in anin an elder, for them to not
lose that.
That innocence for them to notlose that brightness and the
world beats them down so muchthat they lose the innocence of
themselves and, and in far toomany situations that we see
(16:58):
today that our children arelosing their innocence.
And because they are losing theinnocence, then they lose that
determination to, to support andbuild structures and identify
structures and commandstructures and to, to aid them
into them, getting to theircompletion of what they want to
be as, as adults, even if theydon't even know what that is
(17:22):
specifically, that nature ismoving them to success.
The nature is moving them to aconclusion.
So having this brightness andinnocence that has been warred
upon and has taken many of ourchildren away from us the
innocence of the children awayfrom us has been a, a detriment
to society.
(17:42):
And you can clearly see it.
You can clearly see it.
So that's Michael Jackson's withthe child heart.
And that's, I can just rememberhearing that song and just.
Listening to a child sing thesong and who sounds like an
adult, but he's probably thebest represent representative
of, of that song beingarticulated to, to our ears and
to our heart as well.
(18:03):
And of course, there's the otherone, the greatest love of all.
So what is your greatest love ofall?
Faridah (18:09):
I, I'm, I'm almost still stuck in this reverie from
the, the picture that the visualpicture that was painted for me
by the lyrics to that song, youknow, that wonder the, the
greatest love.
I mean, let, let me just saythis before I go to the, the
greatest love, because I thinkit's, this is connected and, you
know, I, I think a lot, Ireflect a lot on the term
(18:32):
family.
Yeah.
in the English language, youknow it is, it's a term that
almost all, almost everydefinition across Oxford,
Merriam dictionary, what, youknow, where Webster, almost
every definition except for themore recent ones they, They
include adults and children.
(18:54):
Now you'll find more recentdefinitions of the word family
and they, you know, they'll saysomething similar to having, you
know, two or more P persons whoyou know, commit to supporting
one another and loving oneanother.
And it doesn't signify whetherthose people are adults,
children.
I guess they can be two adults,two or more adults.
(19:16):
But so in, in the larger sense,you know, you can grow up, you
know, my family are my siblingsand my parents right now.
And you know, and, and thatcould be all that you have and
you're all adults at one point,but the, the, the, the true
definition, the most basicdefinition of family in the
English language always includesthe children and adults.
So when you speak to the lyricsof that song, And you, you ask
(19:40):
the, the rhetorical question,you know, for not just for me,
but for all of our listeners tocontemplate really, really to go
back and, and contemplate,reflect, think over this and
then speak with your familiesand one another about this is
the idea that the adult cannotmaintain that sense of wonder
(20:04):
without being in proximity tochildren.
You know, you don't necessarilyhave to still be raising young
children.
You don't necessarily have to bea teacher, but you should exist
within a family unit wherechildren or, or a neighborhood
context or a community context,or either, even within your
religious community, you know,the life of your religious
(20:26):
space, you know, whether it'syour church or mosque, your
synagogue, where children arewelcome and children are visible
and children are included.
in the vision and the, the plansfor the longevity of this of
whatever institution it is,whether it's the family, a
community, this, the religiouscommunity, anything of that
(20:48):
nature, because children dorepresent the future.
And so when you, you recountedthe lyrics of this song, And I,
you know, I remember I sharedwith you just a few minutes ago
about, you know, how I got, hadthe opportunity and the
privilege to see life, to seethe world, to see the creation
through the eyes of youngchildren.
And it was so remarkable.
(21:09):
It was astounding.
It was delightful.
It's like the scientist whenthey discover something, you
know, new.
It's this, this sense of wonderand awe that has you as a Muslim
saying, you know, that, that,that God is so perfect and so
sublime and above everythingthat he has provided this
reality and the ability for usto learn and grow and benefit
(21:30):
from it.
So why do I say that?
When you speak of innocence.
Innocence requires by its verynature, it requires protection.
So if we don't understand andsecure, first of all, the
definition of family as adultswho have the interest of
children at heart and preservingthose children's innocence.
(21:54):
And when I say family, now we'reof course, starting with the
literal family unit, but alsospeaking to ultimately the
family of man.
So, The family of man isrequired to look at innocence
among us and do it is morallyrequired to do everything in our
power to set up institutionsthat protect and secure the
(22:15):
interests of the innocent.
So that can't happen if we'renot in proximity to one another.
It can't happen if you don'tknow.
what, who the innocents are,what they represent, what their
needs are.
The only way to find thosethings out is if you know, if
you're in observing.
And so I think one of the firstproblems is that we've kind of
(22:36):
we've siloed different interestsin our society.
Let me give you one example andhopefully you can respond to
this.
And then maybe God willing, atsome point I'll get back to the
greatest love.
But I say this because.
We have a notion in the UnitedStates of America where we
believe in the right to privacy,and we believe that as adults,
(23:01):
that right to privacy entitlesus the ability to, to take
advantage of and enjoy thingsthat may not be healthy even for
us as adults.
But because we are adults and wehave the right to privacy, we're
entitled to do those things, butwe're doing them in a way that
(23:22):
does not take into account theimpact that those things have on
the innocent.
So, first of all, the firstinnocent is your own human soul.
The human soul is an innocententity that we are required to
either purify or we allow it tobe corrupted.
And so that, that's somethingthat, that the human being is
(23:43):
responsible for.
So in a sense, the human soul isan innocent entity that we have
to protect.
One's own self, that's an adult.
But, but glaringly obvious isthat the rights of children They
are innocents.
So if we have things like, let'ssay, cigarette smoking, we all
know now the effects ofsecondhand smoke.
So we say, as a mother or afather or an adult, I'm entitled
(24:06):
to smoke my cigarette.
It relieves, you know, itrelieves my stress and my
anxiety.
You know, it may harm my body,but I'm an adult.
I can deal with that.
The fact of the matter though isthat the secondhand smoke is
almost as harmful to yourchildren who are around you as
it is to the smoker themselves.
If you're living for an extendedperiod of time in, you know, in
(24:27):
the same home.
In a similar manner, our, ouraddiction as a nation to
pornography.
is something that is similar.
So we believe we have the rightas adults that we are entitled
to enjoy what we want to enjoyas adults without without anyone
judging us or without anyoneputting any restrictions or
boundaries in place that wouldprevent the adults from enjoying
(24:50):
it.
But the fact of the matter isthat the, the, the appetites
that pornography induces in ushave carryover effects.
that harm children in oursociety.
There's a growing it, it erasesthe, the sense of taboo of
things being taboo and, and notacceptable.
So the more and more peoplethey, they engage in
(25:13):
pornography, the, the greaterthe, the, their appetite grows
for things that are, are moreand more titillating.
And that eventually leads somepeople to satisfying their,
their, themselves with children,the rates of, of molestation and
other things where children areharmed or trafficked, these
things, and, and where childrenget their hands on this
(25:35):
pornography, and they themselvesare consuming it.
But because we don't want to getrid of it in society in a way
that would protect everyone,particularly the children.
Why?
Because it would encroach uponmy right as an adult to enjoy
what I want.
So I think we're more as, as, asAmericans, we are more
(25:56):
committed.
to our right to privacy, ourright to enjoy those things we
think that we should be able toenjoy as adults than we are to
securing the interests ofinnocents.
And that's how it begins.
These are just examples of howwe might sing, I believe the
children are our future, teachthem well and let them lead the
(26:17):
way, show them all the beautythey possess inside.
But quite honestly, we're notcommitted to that because we're
not willing to do whatever ittakes to secure their dreams and
hopes.
Frank (26:28):
Very well said.
Very well said.
America itself was created as anexperiment on freedom.
So absolute freedom is thefreedom of having all the I
guess all of the access to thethings that you ever wanted
without any consequence.
(26:49):
So, because you have noconsequence for it, there is no
context in which you can managethese freedoms.
So, hey, it's my right, it's my,I'm an American, I can do what I
want to do.
I got my, I'm protected by theamendment, first amendment,
freedom of this, secondamendment, freedom of that.
So, I can just incur on you allthat I want to because I'm
(27:12):
protected.
But I'm looking at it in anindividual sense, as you said,
without it, looking at acommunity sense, my individual
perversions have somehowinfluenced the innocence.
It doesn't, my, my individualperversions does not protect the
(27:34):
innocent.
I, because I don't have acontext on where to keep my
perversions as much as thegreater society is telling me
that I should have my freedom tobe as perverse as I want to be
at one point, you know, youknow, this is just the nature of
man.
This is in man's history thatthese things have challenged man
(27:55):
from the beginning.
But they were systems put inplace to keep everything in
check.
But as we see in 2024, thosesystems are no longer there.
It's everything is just out inthe open now.
And it's almost to the pointwhere you aren't who you say you
are, unless you publiclydisplay.
Your perversion and until Ipublicly do that, then I won't
(28:20):
have rights to protect me in myperversion So and it's
unfortunate and guess whosuffers the children all the
time, you know, we all suffer Ijust want to make that clear.
We all suffer.
I'm damaging myself with theseperversions, but ultimately I'm
not securing the future That's,that's not what I'm doing.
(28:42):
I'm, I'm an individual.
We're all individuals, but wedon't have a context for our
life until we meet others.
And once we meet others,specifically creating this life
of this family life, I meet a, Imeet a woman or you meet a man.
And now you, you realize thatyou two coming together now
creates a whole nother existencefor something.
(29:05):
And you securing an existencefor what children, because the
children are the next level ofdevelopment for that.
So you go from the individual,then you go to the marriage.
And then, then you go to thechildren, which creates the
family.
And from that, we build societyupon that, upon that pattern.
But if we don't look at it inthat sense, and not looking at
(29:29):
securing the children by givingthem the ultimate protection,
then ultimately society falls.
And we see the products of that.
Faridah (29:39):
You know, two things that you just said you, you
talked about children andchildren are our future.
Children are also.
our a symbol of ourproductivity.
It's, it's there.
What we produce is visible inour Children as a society, you
(30:01):
know we may build tallbuildings, but if we never have
Children who grow up and canbecome materially independent
enough to, you know, purchase aroom in that hotel or, or work,
you know, cultivate theirintellect so that they could
work in an office unit in that,that tall, you know, that
(30:21):
skyscraper, then it's nothing,it's a shell.
So children, we have to look athow are we producing?
What are we I go back to the,the, the parable of a garden,
you know at a gardens are usedoften in scripture as parables
through which God teaches us orshows us important lessons about
(30:42):
what it means to be human andhow we are to construct our
societies.
And so when you look at thegardens, you know, they, they
are enriched by the mercy andthe guidance of the creator
himself through things like rainthat we do not control, you
know, the, the excellence of thesoil, which we can impact or
(31:03):
influence in terms of how wetreat the soil and things of
that nature.
But we have to think how mucheffort are we putting into the
product of our lives together?
of our, of our familiestogether.
How much are we, are we sowinginto our children, into our
future?
And so that's something toreally think about when you
(31:25):
think about children andproductivity and this idea of
the garden and tillage and, andreally sowing and working hard
to make sure that theenvironment that they're in is
most conducive to their healthygrowth.
The other thing I wanted topoint out was your use of the
term perversion.
And I think it's important herebecause, you know, there are so
(31:45):
many perversions that areprevalent today and like you
pointed out, they are you know,we're actually beginning to
identify ourselves by ourperversions, you know, even, you
know, we will, we will talkabout even sometimes the
perversions of our thoughts, youknow, that, you know, set us
apart and we'll, we'll, youknow, Put this out into the
(32:05):
public sphere, not that oneshould necessarily be ashamed if
you struggle with mental healthor, and I think it's healthy to
have conversations about how ourthoughts can be tortured or work
against us and we need to havepositive, but we celebrate.
these perversions of thought,perversions of behavior,
(32:26):
perversions of, of all manner ofthings in a manner that is not
conducive to the idea, theunderstanding of the true
picture of the human being.
And I bring that up because oneof the lyrics in the song that I
just quoted, which, you know, Ithink many of our listening
audience in our listeningaudience may be familiar with,
and that is the greatest love.
(32:46):
That was introduced to merecently as having been on the
soundtrack of a film aboutMuhammad Ali sung by George
Benson.
I was not aware of that.
I myself was only familiar withthe Whitney Houston version, but
you know, there's a
Frank (33:00):
Randy Watson version.
Faridah (33:02):
Randy Watson, Jackson Heights own, you may know him as
Joe, the policeman from thewhat's going down episode.
That's my mom.
Put your hands together.
But anyway, I digress.
But you know, the, I think aboutthe, the idea that in that song
(33:23):
It says, teach them well and letthem lead the way.
Show them all the beauty theypossess inside.
So beauty, what they, the beautythey possess inside is an
inheritance from their creator.
It's a beautiful, excellent,natural pattern that was given
to them by the one who made thatindividual child and the, the
(33:44):
excellent pattern for allchildren across time.
And so if we want to understand.
the, that beauty, we have tounderstand it without
perversion.
We have to put the properpicture in front of our children
to recognize that, to recognizewhat beauty is.
I cannot overemphasize thatpoint because today our children
(34:08):
are being told to look at maybea fleeting emotion and let that,
their, their feeling of the day,or even a, an ongoing feeling
that they may struggle with, butit's a feeling nonetheless, they
will, they are being encouragedto take those feelings.
and use them to describe whattheir true nature is, who they
(34:31):
are as a human being.
And I reject that.
And I think every righteoushuman being has to reject that.
Certainly every person of faithmust reject that an individual
whim or feeling can define theexcellence of your human
picture.
We have been given beauty.
We have been given an excellenthuman picture and it is in that
(34:53):
symmetry.
It's in the balance, theduality, the dual nature of life
that God created everything in.
That is where the beauty is.
And we're told even in thelyrics of a pop culture song to
show our children the beautythey possess inside.
So I think that also goes to apiece of this our understanding
(35:14):
of securing.
These institutions and pathwaysfor the innocent, you know,
among us, particularly, youknow, centering and focusing
children.
Frank (35:25):
But it's wonderful.
It's wonderful because we livein a very complex developmental
environment.
So things will be broad, thingswill be advanced in degrees in
everything that we are in goingthrough in life.
So we'll never really come tothe completion of anything
because it's just another stepto another form of completion.
(35:46):
But I wanted to say something torespond back to what you said
about you having the benefit ofhomeschooling your, your
daughter and your nephew for aperiod.
And you were seeing the worldthrough their eyes.
Were you not once a child?
Did you see the world through achild's eyes and what may have
(36:07):
been the structures orsituations that may have taken
us?
Maybe innocently, or once again,maybe it was by design for us to
lose that innocence andunderstanding that innocent as a
child, but now have to bereinduced, reintroduced to it
through other children tounderstand the seed, the world
(36:28):
through their eyes, like whatthere has to have been a may
have been a separation and theworld is so confusing.
The world is so big.
The world is so busy.
The world is so inviting.
And, and we go into many, manyendeavors not knowing.
All of what we're stepping into,and that's just curiosity, and
(36:48):
that's what the world invites usto invites us to explore the
curiosity, but these are healthycuriosities that we have for us
in our own development, so wewould tend to.
Expect, and unfortunately, I amprefacing with this tend we tend
to expect when we should expectthat the structures in our
(37:09):
society are there to protectthat natural curiosity, to bring
that natural curiosity to itscompletion.
That's what we should have nowin, in the, in the neighborhoods
that I'm seeing today.
And this is inner city.
This is rural.
This is, this is America.
(37:30):
There were a time wherestructures were so prevalent in
our community that a lot ofthese perversions and a lot of
these entrapments weren't,weren't available for our
children.
So our children went throughour, through their day without
having any influence.
With any of these things, butyet they could literally be
right next to it without havingany influence because structures
(37:54):
were built to protect them.
What I'm seeing today are theremoval of the structures.
I don't think the perversionsare any greater than they were
before.
What makes the perversion seemto be bigger in today's society
is the lack of the structuresbeing there because the
perversions aren't bigger thanthe progressive structures.
(38:15):
Institutions that could never bebigger than that.
Society doesn't grow that way.
But the lack of theseprogressive institutions, i.
e.
neighborly, neighborliness, i.
e.
charity, i.
e.
having goodwill for the personliving next door to you, i.
e.
having a an idea of what youwant your children to have and
(38:36):
you fighting for those.
Establishments.
Those are are gone, which nowall we see is the perversion.
So now we think that is nothingthere anymore, and it's not
because the lack of thesestructures standing, protecting
our Children from theseperversions.
So we mentioned once before.
In the previous episode abouttechnology, in a sense, and how
(38:58):
technology now has full blownaccess to our Children in the
way that it never had ever inour lifetime.
Now, mind you, technology is, isjust a medium.
of information and a medium ofinfluence, the influence has
always been there, but it had togo through certain checks prior
(39:18):
before it could reach a childwhere now it's just straight
right on through.
It's almost like I have an easypass.
You don't even have to pay thetoll.
Just go right on through and youget to your destination.
So I see in a lot of thesecommunities not having the
structure, the structure thereto protect our innocent our
Children and ultimately.
Our children are being pickedoff and their innocence are
(39:41):
compromised and the ability isstifled and we no longer can see
the world through a child's eyesbecause we've lost something in
ourselves to have thatsensitivity.
Faridah (39:53):
You know, I, I, I keep returning to the word you used
earlier in the conversation,which is perversion and
perversion is, is a distortion.
It's an alteration of somethingfrom its original course.
meaning or state to a distortionor corruption of what was first
intended.
And so to acknowledge aperversion means that you have
(40:15):
to acknowledge that there was anintention and a purpose for a
thing initially, that there wasan intention for a thing.
And I think for the human being,there is an intention by the
human, by the creator of thehuman being of human, of, all
creation, but in particular,we're addressing the human being
right now.
The creator had a plan, has apurpose, has an intention for
(40:38):
the human being and humancommunity.
And so I thought what it wasreally important, what you said
about, you know, the the, thenatural curiosity.
about having institutions orfeatures of our institutions
that help to promote thatnatural curiosity or help us to
retain it even as we grow ormove from childhood to
(41:01):
adulthood.
And I think I would, I think theimportant the curiosity is
important, but the curiosity isafforded.
I think that our, our, ournatural, our curiosity is most
peaked when there are there's aslittle distortion of the picture
as possible because then we getthe chance to observe, move
(41:25):
things around, adjust, you know,we, we, we get the chance to
take something in a state forwhich it was intended.
And an experiment with that, youknow, in a, in a very natural
way.
And I would say that I spent, Igrew up in Boston, Massachusetts
and in the Dorchester, in themiddle of the city.
But we spent all of our summersas Girl Scouts at Camp El Paso,
(41:48):
Camp Favorite.
These are camp Girl Scout campsin you know, rural New Hampshire
on a lake or on Cape Cod, youknow, on right, right by the by
a lake on, on the, the Cape.
And so these places were placesthat were free from the
distortions of, of humancreation.
Not that all human creations aredistortions of things.
(42:11):
Much of human, what the humanbeing creates are, is going into
the natural material world anddrawing benefit out of it.
But the ex, but remember we saidearlier that In scripture, we're
given a picture of, of life, andwe're told that life, all life
is, is created in pairs.
(42:32):
And so this immediately gives usa sense or an idea of balance,
that there is a balance that isnecessary for life to maintain.
It's not only its forwardtrajectory, not only its
productive trajectory, but it'sa natural trajectory is to
maintain the balance.
And so, again, the, thetechnology in and of itself is
(42:55):
not, a bad thing.
What is what we have to evaluatethe town, the technology by is
how conducive it is to the humanbeing remaining in a state that,
allows their natural intellectto be piqued, that allows
natural relationships to form,that allows the human being to
(43:17):
be productive in every sense ofthe word, and the relationship
with the creator, and therelationship with their family,
their community, neighbors,community, as you mentioned,
their neighborliness.
Am I concerned?
Does the, the construction ofthe institutions in my life, the
way my family operates, the waymy school operates, the way my
place of my religiousinstitutions operate, Do they
(43:41):
operate in a way that I get toknow my neighbors, that I'm
concerned for what happens tothem, that I set, that I
willingly sacrifice basiccomforts in order that no one
goes without.
There's a saying of the prophetMuhammad prayers of Allah and
peace be upon him, where hetalks about the Muslim.
And I'm paraphrasing here, butthe essence of this report is
(44:04):
that the Muslim is the one whowho cares for their neighbor,
their neighbor doesn't go hungrywhile, while the Muslim is, is
their neighbor.
This means two things at least.
One is that you have to be awareof the state of your neighbor.
Right?
In order to even know whether ornot that neighbor is in need.
And two, you have to be willingto sacrifice some of what you
(44:24):
have.
The prophet, peace be upon him,said that if you have enough for
one, that's enough for two.
So here we're talking aboutpromoting a sense of
selflessness.
in just in, in everyday regularinteractions.
And if I'm so curious about howmy neighbor is doing their
wellbeing, I'm curious about thehuman state.
So it's not just a curiosityabout rocks and animals, but
(44:46):
it's a curiosity about the humanbeing.
him or herself.
So again, just that, that wordperversion opens lots of
doorways for us because it helpsus to remember that there is a
picture that we're supposed tohave.
It is the life, the best lifethat we're talking about
drawing.
our, our listeners back to acommitment to.
(45:08):
We're inviting you listeners,not just to listen to this and
think, well, how might thisaffect me and my family?
Yes, that's the first stage, butthe most important stage of
this, the development of thispodcast, this conversation that
we're having with one another,and we hope we develop it even
further with guests and, andspeaking to some of you and, and
really engaging people.
(45:29):
beyond you know, just acomfortable space of a
conversation is we have to startto think that we have a moral
responsibility to call oneanother to the good life and
their requirements as it has.
It requires a discipline, but itis the good life is not your
best life.
It's not my best life.
(45:50):
It's the best life
Frank (45:52):
and bringing it back to the child, the innocence of a
child.
If you.
Ever watch a young, and I mean,very, very young child a
toddler, perhaps when they seeanother toddler, toddler, they
lock eyes with each other.
And there's a sense between thetwo that there is a commonality.
(46:13):
There's a, I want to know you, Iwant to know, like, look at you,
look at me.
Hey, we made it look at us, youknow, as if they knew each other
from a previous life or aprevious time.
And if you just leave them tothemselves, you'll see the most
general, the most generosityyou'll ever see.
(46:33):
Like they're not, they won't bestingy with each other.
They'll hug each other.
They'll show love to each other.
It's the, the bonds are verynatural between them.
And seeing that, that is a signfor us adults.
That is a sign for us who areresponsible, who are sensitive
to secure that.
(46:55):
That is what we need to securebecause in that is where we have
our, our security and theirsecurity is our security.
So if I'm looking for rights andprivileges on my, for me, for my
own person, once again, thatdoesn't do anything for anybody
else, because it's anindividualistic approach to
something I'm an adult.
(47:16):
This is what I want to do.
I'm going to do it.
I have support from thegovernment.
I have support from the laws.
I have support from whatever.
This is what I'm going to do.
But oftentimes that infringeson, on, on me.
So there's a phrase that manyhave.
Used for many, many years, andit says good fences make good
(47:42):
neighbors, which in a sense is acontradiction.
What is suggesting is don't comein my space.
And if you don't come in myspace, then you are a good
neighbor versus you invitingthem into your space to get to
know each other.
And that's how you build strongsocieties.
(48:04):
The invitation.
It's a strong society.
So if you watch the children,they invite each other, they
don't have to necessarily motionwith their hands to come and
engage just to look in that, asI said, that clarity and that
brightness of those eyes lockwith each other.
And that's the invitation.
(48:24):
And that's the same, that's thesame thing we see when a child
is pulled from the womb and it'sgiven to the mother and the
mother looks at the child andthe child opens his eyes and
locks his eyes with his mother.
That is a look that will remindthe mother that I have already
sacrificed once my life to bringyou into existence.
(48:46):
So I will now sacrifice my lifeagain, to ensure that existence
goes to its completion.
And that is your life, youngchild.
And that's our disposition.
That's the disposition of ahealthy society.
And that's the disposition thatAmerica should get back to, to
be a what?
More perfect union,
Faridah (49:06):
amen and I mean I, I think to have that more perfect
union I'll go back to somethingyou said you said we have, we
have legal supports for theseselfish choices.
We have societal support.
You know, we have constitutionalsupports we have popular culture
(49:28):
support.
What we don't have for thesechoices is moral support.
Frank (49:33):
Yes, absolutely.
And
Faridah (49:35):
so I, I think what we have to return to, I think
there's no doubt about if we, ifwe accept that the family unit.
And by family unit, I mean, ofcourse, that you have the
initial coming together, thecommitted coming together of the
husband and wife, the father andmother, but none of that happens
(49:57):
without the support of theirparents and, and others, you
know, within the community,that, that union doesn't even
come together without two orthree other parties to witness
that union.
You've got to sign a contract.
You have to have witnesses tothe contract.
You have to have a priest or apreacher marrying, conducting a
marital, a wedding, a marriageceremony.
(50:20):
You have to, so there are alwayswithin this, this unit of the
family coming together, it's anecessity for there to be
supportive structures andinstitutions to help make that a
reality.
What I think about in terms ofthis moral support is when we
talk about the family ties andthe family unit and the family
itself being a remedy, aprescription for society.
(50:45):
We're speaking about this in noless terms than that.
This is about a moral movement.
We, we are talking aboutreturning to a covenant.
with the one who made us, thatthe creator of all the worlds
gave us a picture of ourselves,gave us a beauty, gave us an
(51:10):
excellent balanced design, andthen gave us a beautiful earth
and heavens above it, abeautiful earth and heavens
above it to actually make surethat we have everything we need
to sustain such excellent life.
You know, to sustain productivelife and it does not, it's not a
(51:30):
promise.
This covenant is not a promisethat we won't struggle.
It's not a promise that therewill not be difficulty.
I think for all adults, those ofus who have made it to
adulthood, we recognize thenecessity of struggle in order
for us to birth the best.
Versions of ourselves and thebest versions of our families
(51:51):
and our communities.
As a matter of fact, the familyitself acts as an incubator for
developing our best selves.
Because when you have to be ashusband and wife, learn to put
someone else's needs before yourown.
Learn to temper youridiosyncrasies so that someone
else can be at peace.
These are, these are difficultthings to do when you're in a
(52:12):
relationship.
But you're forced to do them inthe context of a union that has
purpose and that produces.
And even if that doesn't producethe human life of a child,
whether a womb is barren or aman cannot produce, that you're
still producing a life that thetwo coming together, they make a
whole new unit.
(52:32):
Yes.
And so as we wrap up thisconversation, you know, I, I
just want to say, you saidsomething earlier about Good
fences make good neighbors.
I would turn that on its headand go with the guidance that
that scriptural guidance and andthe guidance of Muhammad The
prophet prayers of Allah andpeace be upon him.
I would say good manners makegood neighbors not good fences
(52:54):
Good manners.
Frank (52:57):
Good manners.
Good morning, neighbor.
Hey, neighbor, how are youtoday?
I'm fine.
You know, I can remember therewas a time.
Yeah.
Faridah (53:06):
Do you remember there was a, there was a, I live in,
in Howard County, Maryland, andwe had, there was a bumper
sticker campaign for a few yearsago and, and it said, choose
civility.
in Howard County.
And it was so prevalent.
And there were all theseconversations in the libraries
about civility.
And that seems to have died off.
The road rage is up.
Nobody's really practicingcivility anymore.
(53:28):
I mean the, the whole, but, butthis is a reminder.
It's not just the purview of theMuslim.
It's the purview of theChristian, of the Jew, of the
good, you know, of, of all goodhuman beings who want, to live
in harmony with one another,that it's civility, good
manners, caring, honest,sincere, caring about the other,
as you reminded us with thetoddlers, you know, so yeah,
Frank (53:51):
that's, that's, that's amazing.
This topic and these issues thatwe have to tackle are nothing
that we can't.
Solve.
There are nothing that we can'tovercome and bring back to the
correct focus.
I can remember my grandmother'salways say, just wipe your eyes
and you know, you can see thingsa little better.
(54:12):
And oftentimes that could be,we've got a little mud or
something in our eyes, but youknow, it's, it's something
that's not too big for us to do.
We're capable of fixing this.
So, and I believe that this is aplatform for us and for our
listeners and for the world Whois listening as well, that this
is a way for us to Remy remedythe issue because family is the
(54:34):
prescription for society.
Well, Farida, the praise is forGod always we have moved one
step closer to destinationexcellence.
Faridah (54:45):
Until next time, let us remain conscious of our creator
of the sacred relationship ofparent and child and of the
family ties that bind us.
Subscribe to the podcast andcome back next time for a new
episode of The Family Ties.
Frank (55:00):
From Frank Abdul Shahid
Faridah (55:03):
and Farida Abdul Tawab Brown.
Frank (55:07):
Peace be upon the family.
Peace be upon the family, as we welcome you to another
experience of The Family Ties, aprescription for society.
I am your co host, Frank AbdulShahid.
Faridah (00:26):
And I am your co host, Farida Abdul Tawad Brown.
Before we get started, don'tforget to subscribe so you can
stay up to date and get all thelatest episodes.
Frank (00:36):
So welcome back to another episode of this
wonderful podcast known as thefamily ties, the prescription
for society.
And yes, indeed, we believe thatthere is a prescription for the
ills of society and there arethe family ties.
So far to my esteemed cohost.
Welcome back.
Faridah (00:56):
Thank you.
It's great to be back here withyou again.
Frank (01:00):
So as we have been recording and uploading and
presenting to our wonderfulesteemed audience and dignified
audience.
The many episodes that we havebeen able to record and share
with this wonderful audiencejust wanted to get a little bit
of feedback from you and thefeedback that I want is
something very specific.
(01:20):
So when we began this journey onthis wonderful podcast that we
created we had a design and wehad a dream and we had a future
for it.
We had an aim and a destiny forthis.
Oftentimes in our innocence.
I see children and I seechildren with that same level of
(01:41):
innocence, just innocence intheir life, and they go about
their lives, just back and forthin and out with no care in the
world, except what's the verynext thing that they want to do.
And oftentimes they might notknow what the next step is or
the next thing that they want.
They're just stimulated by theirenvironment.
But when you sit down and justlook at a child and just have a
(02:02):
conversation with the child andyou, you talk to them and you
let them tell you exactly.
What it is that they want to do,you know, if they just kind of
just go on and on and on and onand on, and it's, and you're,
and you're smiling, thinking,well, you know what, you have
the possibility to do all ofthose great things, but in
reality, in reality, you know,do we believe that we have the
(02:25):
structures in place?
Do we have the materialresources in place?
Do we have the communitydevelopment in place?
Do we have all of the necessary.
Opportunities in place for achild with those bright
illuminated eyes, with thesegreat ideas, with this great
(02:48):
ball of energy to have thesethings done and to come into
life.
Do we have everything that weneed that at the end of their
life, they still have that samebrightness in their eyes?
That same excitement in theirvoice, that same level of energy
to be able to know that they'vecome to the fruition and the
(03:08):
fulfillment of those wonderfuldreams that they had as a child.
Do you think we have all of thatin place?
Currently.
Faridah (03:18):
Whew.
That, that is a, that's a heavyquestion.
You know I, I listened to you,you know, describe the wonder,
the, the shining eyes, the, thehearts and the minds full, the
elasticity of their brains thatare full of, of, of possibility
and prospects for themselves.
(03:38):
I, I think, you know, to my ownchildren and my nephew, I
remember, you know, my, mydaughter and my nephew when they
were very young children and I.
And I homeschooled themtogether.
And I remember taking walksthrough the, you know, wooded
paths and going to the, youknow, state parks and you know,
they'd walk on logs and turnover rocks.
And I was seeing everythingthrough their eyes.
(04:00):
This was, I mean, the absoluteprivilege of being able to
witness the world.
through the, the curious andhopeful eyes of, of children is,
it's a privilege.
And it's also it's somethingthat keeps you attuned to the
fact that our future lies withinthem because they have the
(04:21):
ability to see the world andit's all of its possibilities,
right?
I think, so when you say that, Ithink about my two of my
children One of whom would liketo be a either a pediatrician or
a veterinarian.
She can't decide between humansor animals.
Mm-Hmm.
And the other she she, she loveslanguage.
You know, she wants to studylanguages.
(04:42):
You know, she wants to study thelanguage of scripture, but she
also wants to study otherlanguages just to converse and
understand more about humanity.
And they see those possibilitiesfor themselves as if they can
absolutely come true.
And what.
Her father and I do, my husbandand I do, we stay awake, you
know.
working hard to make sure thatwe're putting structures in
(05:06):
place that those dreams can berealized.
We realize that we're like theskeleton for the flesh of their
dreams.
You know, I remember theLangston Hughes poem that we
referenced a few episodes ago,you know, of what happens to a
dream deferred and that, Thatdream, that hope in the Quran,
in the scripture of the Muslims,there's a term called Milat.
(05:28):
And it's, it's related toAbraham and it's, it's the, the
hope of Abraham.
Sometimes it's translated evenas the way, and that's, that's
what I think of when I think of.
our children and their hopes anddreams.
That's a pathway.
And it's a pathway that we, asthe leaders in their life, their
(05:49):
parents are the leader, offerleadership.
And then, you know, theseconcentric circles of of care
and concern, we offer leadershipto secure those pathways, this
way of looking at the world thatsees what's going on.
possibility that as they growolder, you know, those bones
will become more rigid as theygive more form to their dreams.
(06:10):
And so they'll realize thatthere are certain things that
have to happen in a certain way,but always maintaining the
flesh, the meatiness, thehopefulness of that, that
possibility for human life.
Frank (06:22):
Yes.
Faridah (06:22):
But I mentioned my husband and I, because I think
that we are working very hardand we're working together to
try to ensure the dreams of our.
our daughters, but we can't doit.
We're doing that with the helpof our parents, our siblings,
our extended network of familyand friends, because we realized
their dreams are not going to berealized by what their parents
(06:47):
alone can provide.
It requires a community ofpeople working to secure the, as
you said, the institutions thatare necessary to give those,
those dreams a form and astructure.
And sadly, when I think aboutthe larger picture for the
(07:07):
children of the world, butparticularly the children of
America and then AfricanAmerican children in particular,
I I am, I see that we haveabandoned the moral
responsibility to establish thatinfrastructure.
(07:30):
I think about it in the light ofthese recent tragedies that we
have here in the United Statesof America.
In Winder, Georgia, there was arecent school shooting where
four precious human beings losttheir lives, two teachers and
two precious young children,young adults.
to adolescents.
(07:51):
I think they were either 14 or15 years old, lost their lives
senselessly at the hands of a 15year old, a 14 or 15 year old
student.
Also elsewhere here in, inMaryland, Joppatown, Maryland,
there was a shooting in thebathroom inside a school in
Joppatown and a young man losthis life.
(08:11):
And so when I consider these, Ithink of schools, our
educational institutions, theyare part of that infrastructure
that helps our dreams are, thathelps.
to give form to the dreams andthe hopes of the next
generation.
And what we're finding is thatthe young people have been
influenced in a way and theinstitutions have become what's
(08:33):
the best word to use?
The institutions have become Iguess disempowered is a word,
but they've become impotent.
Frank (08:42):
I would say they don't have
Faridah (08:44):
the power.
Okay.
That, that's a good word.
That that's that's go ahead andexplain why you why you would
use the word compromise, becauseI think we're on the same
wavelength, but I'd like to hearthat.
Frank (08:56):
Absolutely.
So I use the term compromisebecause.
There was a desire, there was adesign for a particular effort,
you know, and as I'm, I prefacedit with the child, you know, the
child has an idea of what theywant to do and in their mind,
this is what their life shouldbe for them as they take each
(09:18):
step in no part of theirthinking, do they even will even
consider that something will getin the way of them attaining the
goal that they want.
But when something gets in theway of that, either it could
develop something in the childto make the child more resilient
to greater steps to attain it,or it could make the child
(09:41):
decide that that's not the goal.
And it makes me look at anothergoal.
So it's not my own nature that'stelling me that this isn't good.
Something has come andinfluenced me to tell me that I
should just look someplace else.
And I'm using that, thatinfluence to determine for me
what is good versus my very ownnature.
So I think the school system ina lot of senses.
(10:04):
Have lost it's it's way is lost.
It's true effort and design forour Children.
So thus, I would say it wascompromised whether it was
something that was donepurposefully to take the
Children away from the goodnature or a diabolical plan was
enacted and now has taken ourChildren away from them being
(10:25):
them.
Able to see their future come tofruition.
So I think compromise in thatsense can kind of go either way
without indicting it on a wholeas being such a bad thing.
So I think compromise was alittle bit more favorable.
Faridah (10:40):
Thank you for clarifying that.
You know, I, I brought up those,this.
senseless tragedies, you know,that, that we have become more
and more commonplace in ourcountry, in our nation.
But I brought it up because wetypically see the institution
of, of the institutions ofeducation, as complementary to
(11:04):
the role of the family or theparents in the life of a child.
So you're looking at, you know,the first teacher of the child
is usually the mother.
The first teachers are theparents, right?
You have the mother and father,you have the womb or the culture
of the family life of what themother and father together with
the, you know, grandparents andothers are providing and
(11:27):
modeling for.
the young people.
And then you, as parents, youknow, not so much in the
American public school context,you know you're choosing where
your child goes.
So for those of us who have the,you know, the privilege and the
opportunity to homeschool or canafford private schooling, we're
choosing what we think are thebest environments for our
(11:48):
children.
For the vast majority ofAmericans, based on your
geographical location, you havean, you know, a school that your
child is geographically zonedfor.
And therefore the choice wouldhave to come in where you decide
to to live, right?
So a lot of parents are makingthat decision as well.
And that's, that's based onwhere they're choosing to live
(12:10):
so that they can choose aparticular school system.
But I brought that up to saythat if the schools themselves
are compromised, then that isbecause that that is a secondary
institution for the support ofour children's dreams, for the
securing of these pathways torecognition and realization of
their hopes and possibilitiesfor themselves, then we have to
(12:32):
look at what that's pointing usto.
And it's pointing us to the factthat the primary.
The primary incubator for thelife of the child, for securing
the child's interest and wellbeing in the society, something
must be compromised in thatinstitution as well.
And I think that's verypertinent to our discussion here
on the family ties, becausewe're bringing the conversation
(12:55):
right back around to this, thecentrality, the uniqueness of
the family institution.
As a tradition, I think I wouldventure to say the oldest
tradition in human, the humanexperience, which has shown
itself to be over thousands ofyears of human existence, it has
(13:17):
demonstrated itself to be thesingle Well, not the single
most, but after you know, our,our witness and our allegiance
to our creator, the institutionof the family has shown itself
demonstrated itself to be acritical factor for success of
the human being.
And so, To the extent that thatinstitution, that tradition,
(13:40):
that that has borne witness toits success, its success is
witnessed by the history and theannals of human history, the
extent to which it's compromisedis something which we have to to
look at with a moral eye.
Frank (13:56):
Yes.
Faridah (13:56):
And yeah, I think that's where we are right now
when it comes to securing theinterests of our children, their
hopes and their dreams.
Frank (14:03):
I totally agree.
And we'll get back to some ofthe points that you made
specifically about, you know,the school settings and what's
going on in the school.
But there's a song that I wantto, I want to reference really
quickly.
There are several songsactually, but this particular
one just literally just poppedin my mind.
(14:25):
When I think of brightness inthe eyes of a child, I don't
think there is another childthat I can recognize that has
such brightness in their eyes,then the young man that we've
come to know as Michael Jackson.
So when Michael Jackson was veryyoung with the Jackson 5, and
(14:47):
he's, 10, 11, 12.
And you see this child command astage like an adult.
The look in Michael Jackson'seyes was so bright and it just,
just nothing was going to stopthis guy.
He was just, just an amazinghuman.
He was, we were definitelyblessed to have him as, as part
(15:10):
of our cultural expressions,part of our expression as, as
humans.
But I look at his eyes and justsee how bright Michael Jackson's
eyes were when he was much, muchyounger, but he had a, he had a
song called with the child'sheart and it talked about the
heart of a child and part of thelyrics go with a child's heart,
(15:31):
go face the worries of the daywith the child's heart, turn
each problem into play, no needto worry.
No need to fear just being alivemakes it all so very clear with
the child heart.
Nothing can ever get you downwith the child heart.
(15:53):
You've got no reason to frown.
And if you watch Childrenwhatever setbacks that they have
and in an instant, they're backto the, to the good, bright and
humorous nature of a innocenceof a child.
You could take something awayfrom a child.
You can discipline the child.
You can do all these things to achild and you can see them
(16:14):
disturbed, but almostinstantaneously, they're back.
Through that purity of aninnocence of a child looking at
you again with that desire of,Hey, I completely trust you.
I completely put my faith in inyou and, and I, and I expect you
to take me to the destiny.
Like they have that, that look.
(16:36):
So I referenced earlier abouthaving that look in a child, but
also having that same look in anin an elder, for them to not
lose that.
That innocence for them to notlose that brightness and the
world beats them down so muchthat they lose the innocence of
themselves and, and in far toomany situations that we see
(16:58):
today that our children arelosing their innocence.
And because they are losing theinnocence, then they lose that
determination to, to support andbuild structures and identify
structures and commandstructures and to, to aid them
into them, getting to theircompletion of what they want to
be as, as adults, even if theydon't even know what that is
(17:22):
specifically, that nature ismoving them to success.
The nature is moving them to aconclusion.
So having this brightness andinnocence that has been warred
upon and has taken many of ourchildren away from us the
innocence of the children awayfrom us has been a, a detriment
to society.
(17:42):
And you can clearly see it.
You can clearly see it.
So that's Michael Jackson's withthe child heart.
And that's, I can just rememberhearing that song and just.
Listening to a child sing thesong and who sounds like an
adult, but he's probably thebest represent representative
of, of that song beingarticulated to, to our ears and
to our heart as well.
(18:03):
And of course, there's the otherone, the greatest love of all.
So what is your greatest love ofall?
Faridah (18:09):
I, I'm, I'm almost still stuck in this reverie from
the, the picture that the visualpicture that was painted for me
by the lyrics to that song, youknow, that wonder the, the
greatest love.
I mean, let, let me just saythis before I go to the, the
greatest love, because I thinkit's, this is connected and, you
know, I, I think a lot, Ireflect a lot on the term
(18:32):
family.
Yeah.
in the English language, youknow it is, it's a term that
almost all, almost everydefinition across Oxford,
Merriam dictionary, what, youknow, where Webster, almost
every definition except for themore recent ones they, They
include adults and children.
(18:54):
Now you'll find more recentdefinitions of the word family
and they, you know, they'll saysomething similar to having, you
know, two or more P persons whoyou know, commit to supporting
one another and loving oneanother.
And it doesn't signify whetherthose people are adults,
children.
I guess they can be two adults,two or more adults.
(19:16):
But so in, in the larger sense,you know, you can grow up, you
know, my family are my siblingsand my parents right now.
And you know, and, and thatcould be all that you have and
you're all adults at one point,but the, the, the, the true
definition, the most basicdefinition of family in the
English language always includesthe children and adults.
So when you speak to the lyricsof that song, And you, you ask
(19:40):
the, the rhetorical question,you know, for not just for me,
but for all of our listeners tocontemplate really, really to go
back and, and contemplate,reflect, think over this and
then speak with your familiesand one another about this is
the idea that the adult cannotmaintain that sense of wonder
(20:04):
without being in proximity tochildren.
You know, you don't necessarilyhave to still be raising young
children.
You don't necessarily have to bea teacher, but you should exist
within a family unit wherechildren or, or a neighborhood
context or a community context,or either, even within your
religious community, you know,the life of your religious
(20:26):
space, you know, whether it'syour church or mosque, your
synagogue, where children arewelcome and children are visible
and children are included.
in the vision and the, the plansfor the longevity of this of
whatever institution it is,whether it's the family, a
community, this, the religiouscommunity, anything of that
(20:48):
nature, because children dorepresent the future.
And so when you, you recountedthe lyrics of this song, And I,
you know, I remember I sharedwith you just a few minutes ago
about, you know, how I got, hadthe opportunity and the
privilege to see life, to seethe world, to see the creation
through the eyes of youngchildren.
And it was so remarkable.
(21:09):
It was astounding.
It was delightful.
It's like the scientist whenthey discover something, you
know, new.
It's this, this sense of wonderand awe that has you as a Muslim
saying, you know, that, that,that God is so perfect and so
sublime and above everythingthat he has provided this
reality and the ability for usto learn and grow and benefit
(21:30):
from it.
So why do I say that?
When you speak of innocence.
Innocence requires by its verynature, it requires protection.
So if we don't understand andsecure, first of all, the
definition of family as adultswho have the interest of
children at heart and preservingthose children's innocence.
(21:54):
And when I say family, now we'reof course, starting with the
literal family unit, but alsospeaking to ultimately the
family of man.
So, The family of man isrequired to look at innocence
among us and do it is morallyrequired to do everything in our
power to set up institutionsthat protect and secure the
(22:15):
interests of the innocent.
So that can't happen if we'renot in proximity to one another.
It can't happen if you don'tknow.
what, who the innocents are,what they represent, what their
needs are.
The only way to find thosethings out is if you know, if
you're in observing.
And so I think one of the firstproblems is that we've kind of
(22:36):
we've siloed different interestsin our society.
Let me give you one example andhopefully you can respond to
this.
And then maybe God willing, atsome point I'll get back to the
greatest love.
But I say this because.
We have a notion in the UnitedStates of America where we
believe in the right to privacy,and we believe that as adults,
(23:01):
that right to privacy entitlesus the ability to, to take
advantage of and enjoy thingsthat may not be healthy even for
us as adults.
But because we are adults and wehave the right to privacy, we're
entitled to do those things, butwe're doing them in a way that
(23:22):
does not take into account theimpact that those things have on
the innocent.
So, first of all, the firstinnocent is your own human soul.
The human soul is an innocententity that we are required to
either purify or we allow it tobe corrupted.
And so that, that's somethingthat, that the human being is
(23:43):
responsible for.
So in a sense, the human soul isan innocent entity that we have
to protect.
One's own self, that's an adult.
But, but glaringly obvious isthat the rights of children They
are innocents.
So if we have things like, let'ssay, cigarette smoking, we all
know now the effects ofsecondhand smoke.
So we say, as a mother or afather or an adult, I'm entitled
(24:06):
to smoke my cigarette.
It relieves, you know, itrelieves my stress and my
anxiety.
You know, it may harm my body,but I'm an adult.
I can deal with that.
The fact of the matter though isthat the secondhand smoke is
almost as harmful to yourchildren who are around you as
it is to the smoker themselves.
If you're living for an extendedperiod of time in, you know, in
(24:27):
the same home.
In a similar manner, our, ouraddiction as a nation to
pornography.
is something that is similar.
So we believe we have the rightas adults that we are entitled
to enjoy what we want to enjoyas adults without without anyone
judging us or without anyoneputting any restrictions or
boundaries in place that wouldprevent the adults from enjoying
(24:50):
it.
But the fact of the matter isthat the, the, the appetites
that pornography induces in ushave carryover effects.
that harm children in oursociety.
There's a growing it, it erasesthe, the sense of taboo of
things being taboo and, and notacceptable.
So the more and more peoplethey, they engage in
(25:13):
pornography, the, the greaterthe, the, their appetite grows
for things that are, are moreand more titillating.
And that eventually leads somepeople to satisfying their,
their, themselves with children,the rates of, of molestation and
other things where children areharmed or trafficked, these
things, and, and where childrenget their hands on this
(25:35):
pornography, and they themselvesare consuming it.
But because we don't want to getrid of it in society in a way
that would protect everyone,particularly the children.
Why?
Because it would encroach uponmy right as an adult to enjoy
what I want.
So I think we're more as, as, asAmericans, we are more
(25:56):
committed.
to our right to privacy, ourright to enjoy those things we
think that we should be able toenjoy as adults than we are to
securing the interests ofinnocents.
And that's how it begins.
These are just examples of howwe might sing, I believe the
children are our future, teachthem well and let them lead the
(26:17):
way, show them all the beautythey possess inside.
But quite honestly, we're notcommitted to that because we're
not willing to do whatever ittakes to secure their dreams and
hopes.
Frank (26:28):
Very well said.
Very well said.
America itself was created as anexperiment on freedom.
So absolute freedom is thefreedom of having all the I
guess all of the access to thethings that you ever wanted
without any consequence.
(26:49):
So, because you have noconsequence for it, there is no
context in which you can managethese freedoms.
So, hey, it's my right, it's my,I'm an American, I can do what I
want to do.
I got my, I'm protected by theamendment, first amendment,
freedom of this, secondamendment, freedom of that.
So, I can just incur on you allthat I want to because I'm
(27:12):
protected.
But I'm looking at it in anindividual sense, as you said,
without it, looking at acommunity sense, my individual
perversions have somehowinfluenced the innocence.
It doesn't, my, my individualperversions does not protect the
(27:34):
innocent.
I, because I don't have acontext on where to keep my
perversions as much as thegreater society is telling me
that I should have my freedom tobe as perverse as I want to be
at one point, you know, youknow, this is just the nature of
man.
This is in man's history thatthese things have challenged man
(27:55):
from the beginning.
But they were systems put inplace to keep everything in
check.
But as we see in 2024, thosesystems are no longer there.
It's everything is just out inthe open now.
And it's almost to the pointwhere you aren't who you say you
are, unless you publiclydisplay.
Your perversion and until Ipublicly do that, then I won't
(28:20):
have rights to protect me in myperversion So and it's
unfortunate and guess whosuffers the children all the
time, you know, we all suffer Ijust want to make that clear.
We all suffer.
I'm damaging myself with theseperversions, but ultimately I'm
not securing the future That's,that's not what I'm doing.
(28:42):
I'm, I'm an individual.
We're all individuals, but wedon't have a context for our
life until we meet others.
And once we meet others,specifically creating this life
of this family life, I meet a, Imeet a woman or you meet a man.
And now you, you realize thatyou two coming together now
creates a whole nother existencefor something.
(29:05):
And you securing an existencefor what children, because the
children are the next level ofdevelopment for that.
So you go from the individual,then you go to the marriage.
And then, then you go to thechildren, which creates the
family.
And from that, we build societyupon that, upon that pattern.
But if we don't look at it inthat sense, and not looking at
(29:29):
securing the children by givingthem the ultimate protection,
then ultimately society falls.
And we see the products of that.
Faridah (29:39):
You know, two things that you just said you, you
talked about children andchildren are our future.
Children are also.
our a symbol of ourproductivity.
It's, it's there.
What we produce is visible inour Children as a society, you
(30:01):
know we may build tallbuildings, but if we never have
Children who grow up and canbecome materially independent
enough to, you know, purchase aroom in that hotel or, or work,
you know, cultivate theirintellect so that they could
work in an office unit in that,that tall, you know, that
(30:21):
skyscraper, then it's nothing,it's a shell.
So children, we have to look athow are we producing?
What are we I go back to the,the, the parable of a garden,
you know at a gardens are usedoften in scripture as parables
through which God teaches us orshows us important lessons about
(30:42):
what it means to be human andhow we are to construct our
societies.
And so when you look at thegardens, you know, they, they
are enriched by the mercy andthe guidance of the creator
himself through things like rainthat we do not control, you
know, the, the excellence of thesoil, which we can impact or
(31:03):
influence in terms of how wetreat the soil and things of
that nature.
But we have to think how mucheffort are we putting into the
product of our lives together?
of our, of our familiestogether.
How much are we, are we sowinginto our children, into our
future?
And so that's something toreally think about when you
(31:25):
think about children andproductivity and this idea of
the garden and tillage and, andreally sowing and working hard
to make sure that theenvironment that they're in is
most conducive to their healthygrowth.
The other thing I wanted topoint out was your use of the
term perversion.
And I think it's important herebecause, you know, there are so
(31:45):
many perversions that areprevalent today and like you
pointed out, they are you know,we're actually beginning to
identify ourselves by ourperversions, you know, even, you
know, we will, we will talkabout even sometimes the
perversions of our thoughts, youknow, that, you know, set us
apart and we'll, we'll, youknow, Put this out into the
(32:05):
public sphere, not that oneshould necessarily be ashamed if
you struggle with mental healthor, and I think it's healthy to
have conversations about how ourthoughts can be tortured or work
against us and we need to havepositive, but we celebrate.
these perversions of thought,perversions of behavior,
(32:26):
perversions of, of all manner ofthings in a manner that is not
conducive to the idea, theunderstanding of the true
picture of the human being.
And I bring that up because oneof the lyrics in the song that I
just quoted, which, you know, Ithink many of our listening
audience in our listeningaudience may be familiar with,
and that is the greatest love.
(32:46):
That was introduced to merecently as having been on the
soundtrack of a film aboutMuhammad Ali sung by George
Benson.
I was not aware of that.
I myself was only familiar withthe Whitney Houston version, but
you know, there's a
Frank (33:00):
Randy Watson version.
Faridah (33:02):
Randy Watson, Jackson Heights own, you may know him as
Joe, the policeman from thewhat's going down episode.
That's my mom.
Put your hands together.
But anyway, I digress.
But you know, the, I think aboutthe, the idea that in that song
(33:23):
It says, teach them well and letthem lead the way.
Show them all the beauty theypossess inside.
So beauty, what they, the beautythey possess inside is an
inheritance from their creator.
It's a beautiful, excellent,natural pattern that was given
to them by the one who made thatindividual child and the, the
(33:44):
excellent pattern for allchildren across time.
And so if we want to understand.
the, that beauty, we have tounderstand it without
perversion.
We have to put the properpicture in front of our children
to recognize that, to recognizewhat beauty is.
I cannot overemphasize thatpoint because today our children
(34:08):
are being told to look at maybea fleeting emotion and let that,
their, their feeling of the day,or even a, an ongoing feeling
that they may struggle with, butit's a feeling nonetheless, they
will, they are being encouragedto take those feelings.
and use them to describe whattheir true nature is, who they
(34:31):
are as a human being.
And I reject that.
And I think every righteoushuman being has to reject that.
Certainly every person of faithmust reject that an individual
whim or feeling can define theexcellence of your human
picture.
We have been given beauty.
We have been given an excellenthuman picture and it is in that
(34:53):
symmetry.
It's in the balance, theduality, the dual nature of life
that God created everything in.
That is where the beauty is.
And we're told even in thelyrics of a pop culture song to
show our children the beautythey possess inside.
So I think that also goes to apiece of this our understanding
(35:14):
of securing.
These institutions and pathwaysfor the innocent, you know,
among us, particularly, youknow, centering and focusing
children.
Frank (35:25):
But it's wonderful.
It's wonderful because we livein a very complex developmental
environment.
So things will be broad, thingswill be advanced in degrees in
everything that we are in goingthrough in life.
So we'll never really come tothe completion of anything
because it's just another stepto another form of completion.
(35:46):
But I wanted to say something torespond back to what you said
about you having the benefit ofhomeschooling your, your
daughter and your nephew for aperiod.
And you were seeing the worldthrough their eyes.
Were you not once a child?
Did you see the world through achild's eyes and what may have
(36:07):
been the structures orsituations that may have taken
us?
Maybe innocently, or once again,maybe it was by design for us to
lose that innocence andunderstanding that innocent as a
child, but now have to bereinduced, reintroduced to it
through other children tounderstand the seed, the world
(36:28):
through their eyes, like whatthere has to have been a may
have been a separation and theworld is so confusing.
The world is so big.
The world is so busy.
The world is so inviting.
And, and we go into many, manyendeavors not knowing.
All of what we're stepping into,and that's just curiosity, and
(36:48):
that's what the world invites usto invites us to explore the
curiosity, but these are healthycuriosities that we have for us
in our own development, so wewould tend to.
Expect, and unfortunately, I amprefacing with this tend we tend
to expect when we should expectthat the structures in our
(37:09):
society are there to protectthat natural curiosity, to bring
that natural curiosity to itscompletion.
That's what we should have nowin, in the, in the neighborhoods
that I'm seeing today.
And this is inner city.
This is rural.
This is, this is America.
(37:30):
There were a time wherestructures were so prevalent in
our community that a lot ofthese perversions and a lot of
these entrapments weren't,weren't available for our
children.
So our children went throughour, through their day without
having any influence.
With any of these things, butyet they could literally be
right next to it without havingany influence because structures
(37:54):
were built to protect them.
What I'm seeing today are theremoval of the structures.
I don't think the perversionsare any greater than they were
before.
What makes the perversion seemto be bigger in today's society
is the lack of the structuresbeing there because the
perversions aren't bigger thanthe progressive structures.
(38:15):
Institutions that could never bebigger than that.
Society doesn't grow that way.
But the lack of theseprogressive institutions, i.
e.
neighborly, neighborliness, i.
e.
charity, i.
e.
having goodwill for the personliving next door to you, i.
e.
having a an idea of what youwant your children to have and
(38:36):
you fighting for those.
Establishments.
Those are are gone, which nowall we see is the perversion.
So now we think that is nothingthere anymore, and it's not
because the lack of thesestructures standing, protecting
our Children from theseperversions.
So we mentioned once before.
In the previous episode abouttechnology, in a sense, and how
(38:58):
technology now has full blownaccess to our Children in the
way that it never had ever inour lifetime.
Now, mind you, technology is, isjust a medium.
of information and a medium ofinfluence, the influence has
always been there, but it had togo through certain checks prior
(39:18):
before it could reach a childwhere now it's just straight
right on through.
It's almost like I have an easypass.
You don't even have to pay thetoll.
Just go right on through and youget to your destination.
So I see in a lot of thesecommunities not having the
structure, the structure thereto protect our innocent our
Children and ultimately.
Our children are being pickedoff and their innocence are
(39:41):
compromised and the ability isstifled and we no longer can see
the world through a child's eyesbecause we've lost something in
ourselves to have thatsensitivity.
Faridah (39:53):
You know, I, I, I keep returning to the word you used
earlier in the conversation,which is perversion and
perversion is, is a distortion.
It's an alteration of somethingfrom its original course.
meaning or state to a distortionor corruption of what was first
intended.
And so to acknowledge aperversion means that you have
(40:15):
to acknowledge that there was anintention and a purpose for a
thing initially, that there wasan intention for a thing.
And I think for the human being,there is an intention by the
human, by the creator of thehuman being of human, of, all
creation, but in particular,we're addressing the human being
right now.
The creator had a plan, has apurpose, has an intention for
(40:38):
the human being and humancommunity.
And so I thought what it wasreally important, what you said
about, you know, the the, thenatural curiosity.
about having institutions orfeatures of our institutions
that help to promote thatnatural curiosity or help us to
retain it even as we grow ormove from childhood to
(41:01):
adulthood.
And I think I would, I think theimportant the curiosity is
important, but the curiosity isafforded.
I think that our, our, ournatural, our curiosity is most
peaked when there are there's aslittle distortion of the picture
as possible because then we getthe chance to observe, move
(41:25):
things around, adjust, you know,we, we, we get the chance to
take something in a state forwhich it was intended.
And an experiment with that, youknow, in a, in a very natural
way.
And I would say that I spent, Igrew up in Boston, Massachusetts
and in the Dorchester, in themiddle of the city.
But we spent all of our summersas Girl Scouts at Camp El Paso,
(41:48):
Camp Favorite.
These are camp Girl Scout campsin you know, rural New Hampshire
on a lake or on Cape Cod, youknow, on right, right by the by
a lake on, on the, the Cape.
And so these places were placesthat were free from the
distortions of, of humancreation.
Not that all human creations aredistortions of things.
(42:11):
Much of human, what the humanbeing creates are, is going into
the natural material world anddrawing benefit out of it.
But the ex, but remember we saidearlier that In scripture, we're
given a picture of, of life, andwe're told that life, all life
is, is created in pairs.
(42:32):
And so this immediately gives usa sense or an idea of balance,
that there is a balance that isnecessary for life to maintain.
It's not only its forwardtrajectory, not only its
productive trajectory, but it'sa natural trajectory is to
maintain the balance.
And so, again, the, thetechnology in and of itself is
(42:55):
not, a bad thing.
What is what we have to evaluatethe town, the technology by is
how conducive it is to the humanbeing remaining in a state that,
allows their natural intellectto be piqued, that allows
natural relationships to form,that allows the human being to
(43:17):
be productive in every sense ofthe word, and the relationship
with the creator, and therelationship with their family,
their community, neighbors,community, as you mentioned,
their neighborliness.
Am I concerned?
Does the, the construction ofthe institutions in my life, the
way my family operates, the waymy school operates, the way my
place of my religiousinstitutions operate, Do they
(43:41):
operate in a way that I get toknow my neighbors, that I'm
concerned for what happens tothem, that I set, that I
willingly sacrifice basiccomforts in order that no one
goes without.
There's a saying of the prophetMuhammad prayers of Allah and
peace be upon him, where hetalks about the Muslim.
And I'm paraphrasing here, butthe essence of this report is
(44:04):
that the Muslim is the one whowho cares for their neighbor,
their neighbor doesn't go hungrywhile, while the Muslim is, is
their neighbor.
This means two things at least.
One is that you have to be awareof the state of your neighbor.
Right?
In order to even know whether ornot that neighbor is in need.
And two, you have to be willingto sacrifice some of what you
(44:24):
have.
The prophet, peace be upon him,said that if you have enough for
one, that's enough for two.
So here we're talking aboutpromoting a sense of
selflessness.
in just in, in everyday regularinteractions.
And if I'm so curious about howmy neighbor is doing their
wellbeing, I'm curious about thehuman state.
So it's not just a curiosityabout rocks and animals, but
(44:46):
it's a curiosity about the humanbeing.
him or herself.
So again, just that, that wordperversion opens lots of
doorways for us because it helpsus to remember that there is a
picture that we're supposed tohave.
It is the life, the best lifethat we're talking about
drawing.
our, our listeners back to acommitment to.
(45:08):
We're inviting you listeners,not just to listen to this and
think, well, how might thisaffect me and my family?
Yes, that's the first stage, butthe most important stage of
this, the development of thispodcast, this conversation that
we're having with one another,and we hope we develop it even
further with guests and, andspeaking to some of you and, and
really engaging people.
(45:29):
beyond you know, just acomfortable space of a
conversation is we have to startto think that we have a moral
responsibility to call oneanother to the good life and
their requirements as it has.
It requires a discipline, but itis the good life is not your
best life.
It's not my best life.
(45:50):
It's the best life
Frank (45:52):
and bringing it back to the child, the innocence of a
child.
If you.
Ever watch a young, and I mean,very, very young child a
toddler, perhaps when they seeanother toddler, toddler, they
lock eyes with each other.
And there's a sense between thetwo that there is a commonality.
(46:13):
There's a, I want to know you, Iwant to know, like, look at you,
look at me.
Hey, we made it look at us, youknow, as if they knew each other
from a previous life or aprevious time.
And if you just leave them tothemselves, you'll see the most
general, the most generosityyou'll ever see.
(46:33):
Like they're not, they won't bestingy with each other.
They'll hug each other.
They'll show love to each other.
It's the, the bonds are verynatural between them.
And seeing that, that is a signfor us adults.
That is a sign for us who areresponsible, who are sensitive
to secure that.
(46:55):
That is what we need to securebecause in that is where we have
our, our security and theirsecurity is our security.
So if I'm looking for rights andprivileges on my, for me, for my
own person, once again, thatdoesn't do anything for anybody
else, because it's anindividualistic approach to
something I'm an adult.
(47:16):
This is what I want to do.
I'm going to do it.
I have support from thegovernment.
I have support from the laws.
I have support from whatever.
This is what I'm going to do.
But oftentimes that infringeson, on, on me.
So there's a phrase that manyhave.
Used for many, many years, andit says good fences make good
(47:42):
neighbors, which in a sense is acontradiction.
What is suggesting is don't comein my space.
And if you don't come in myspace, then you are a good
neighbor versus you invitingthem into your space to get to
know each other.
And that's how you build strongsocieties.
(48:04):
The invitation.
It's a strong society.
So if you watch the children,they invite each other, they
don't have to necessarily motionwith their hands to come and
engage just to look in that, asI said, that clarity and that
brightness of those eyes lockwith each other.
And that's the invitation.
(48:24):
And that's the same, that's thesame thing we see when a child
is pulled from the womb and it'sgiven to the mother and the
mother looks at the child andthe child opens his eyes and
locks his eyes with his mother.
That is a look that will remindthe mother that I have already
sacrificed once my life to bringyou into existence.
(48:46):
So I will now sacrifice my lifeagain, to ensure that existence
goes to its completion.
And that is your life, youngchild.
And that's our disposition.
That's the disposition of ahealthy society.
And that's the disposition thatAmerica should get back to, to
be a what?
More perfect union,
Faridah (49:06):
amen and I mean I, I think to have that more perfect
union I'll go back to somethingyou said you said we have, we
have legal supports for theseselfish choices.
We have societal support.
You know, we have constitutionalsupports we have popular culture
(49:28):
support.
What we don't have for thesechoices is moral support.
Frank (49:33):
Yes, absolutely.
And
Faridah (49:35):
so I, I think what we have to return to, I think
there's no doubt about if we, ifwe accept that the family unit.
And by family unit, I mean, ofcourse, that you have the
initial coming together, thecommitted coming together of the
husband and wife, the father andmother, but none of that happens
(49:57):
without the support of theirparents and, and others, you
know, within the community,that, that union doesn't even
come together without two orthree other parties to witness
that union.
You've got to sign a contract.
You have to have witnesses tothe contract.
You have to have a priest or apreacher marrying, conducting a
marital, a wedding, a marriageceremony.
(50:20):
You have to, so there are alwayswithin this, this unit of the
family coming together, it's anecessity for there to be
supportive structures andinstitutions to help make that a
reality.
What I think about in terms ofthis moral support is when we
talk about the family ties andthe family unit and the family
itself being a remedy, aprescription for society.
(50:45):
We're speaking about this in noless terms than that.
This is about a moral movement.
We, we are talking aboutreturning to a covenant.
with the one who made us, thatthe creator of all the worlds
gave us a picture of ourselves,gave us a beauty, gave us an
(51:10):
excellent balanced design, andthen gave us a beautiful earth
and heavens above it, abeautiful earth and heavens
above it to actually make surethat we have everything we need
to sustain such excellent life.
You know, to sustain productivelife and it does not, it's not a
(51:30):
promise.
This covenant is not a promisethat we won't struggle.
It's not a promise that therewill not be difficulty.
I think for all adults, those ofus who have made it to
adulthood, we recognize thenecessity of struggle in order
for us to birth the best.
Versions of ourselves and thebest versions of our families
(51:51):
and our communities.
As a matter of fact, the familyitself acts as an incubator for
developing our best selves.
Because when you have to be ashusband and wife, learn to put
someone else's needs before yourown.
Learn to temper youridiosyncrasies so that someone
else can be at peace.
These are, these are difficultthings to do when you're in a
(52:12):
relationship.
But you're forced to do them inthe context of a union that has
purpose and that produces.
And even if that doesn't producethe human life of a child,
whether a womb is barren or aman cannot produce, that you're
still producing a life that thetwo coming together, they make a
whole new unit.
(52:32):
Yes.
And so as we wrap up thisconversation, you know, I, I
just want to say, you saidsomething earlier about Good
fences make good neighbors.
I would turn that on its headand go with the guidance that
that scriptural guidance and andthe guidance of Muhammad The
prophet prayers of Allah andpeace be upon him.
I would say good manners makegood neighbors not good fences
(52:54):
Good manners.
Frank (52:57):
Good manners.
Good morning, neighbor.
Hey, neighbor, how are youtoday?
I'm fine.
You know, I can remember therewas a time.
Yeah.
Faridah (53:06):
Do you remember there was a, there was a, I live in,
in Howard County, Maryland, andwe had, there was a bumper
sticker campaign for a few yearsago and, and it said, choose
civility.
in Howard County.
And it was so prevalent.
And there were all theseconversations in the libraries
about civility.
And that seems to have died off.
The road rage is up.
Nobody's really practicingcivility anymore.
(53:28):
I mean the, the whole, but, butthis is a reminder.
It's not just the purview of theMuslim.
It's the purview of theChristian, of the Jew, of the
good, you know, of, of all goodhuman beings who want, to live
in harmony with one another,that it's civility, good
manners, caring, honest,sincere, caring about the other,
as you reminded us with thetoddlers, you know, so yeah,
Frank (53:51):
that's, that's, that's amazing.
This topic and these issues thatwe have to tackle are nothing
that we can't.
Solve.
There are nothing that we can'tovercome and bring back to the
correct focus.
I can remember my grandmother'salways say, just wipe your eyes
and you know, you can see thingsa little better.
(54:12):
And oftentimes that could be,we've got a little mud or
something in our eyes, but youknow, it's, it's something
that's not too big for us to do.
We're capable of fixing this.
So, and I believe that this is aplatform for us and for our
listeners and for the world Whois listening as well, that this
is a way for us to Remy remedythe issue because family is the
(54:34):
prescription for society.
Well, Farida, the praise is forGod always we have moved one
step closer to destinationexcellence.
Faridah (54:45):
Until next time, let us remain conscious of our creator
of the sacred relationship ofparent and child and of the
family ties that bind us.
Subscribe to the podcast andcome back next time for a new
episode of The Family Ties.
Frank (55:00):
From Frank Abdul Shahid
Faridah (55:03):
and Farida Abdul Tawab Brown.
Frank (55:07):
Peace be upon the family.
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