October 9, 2024 • 54 mins
This episode discusses the concept of manhood and its evolution within the African American community. Featuring guests from their family—father Qasim Abdul Tawwab, brother Tariq Abdul Tawwab, and nephew Ihsaan Fanusie —the conversation delves into historical figures and movements such as the Nation of Islam, the civil rights movement, and the responsibilities of men in society. Guests share personal experiences and insights on fatherhood, the role of historical context, and how these shape their perspectives on legacy and community building. The episode emphasizes the importance of reestablishing family ties, creating pathways for new generations, and addressing societal barriers. It also critiques the dismissal of current generations as 'broken' and highlights the need to address challenges holistically and through legacy. The hosts invite guests to return for further discussions on these important themes.
00:00 Welcome to The Family Ties Podcast
00:45 Introducing Our Esteemed Guests
01:30 The Role of Men in Society
02:34 Defining Manhood and Fatherhood
04:31 Historical Examples of Men Uniting
06:30 Conversations with Our Guests
08:52 Reflections on Manhood and Legacy
10:47 Challenges and Barriers to Manhood
17:34 The Importance of Historical Context
20:29 Rebuilding Family Ties and Leadership
28:53 Reflecting on Historical Moments
29:37 The Role of FOI in Community Outreach
30:16 Challenges Facing Young Men Today
31:05 Legacy and Role Models
33:18 Addressing Brokenness in Society
37:46 The Importance of Family Ties
39:30 Passing Down Values to the Next Generation
44:57 Balancing Rehabilitation and Community Support
49:06 Invitation to Continue the Discussion
51:11 Closing Remarks and Future Invitations
This podcast is about family life as a means to address current problems in American society. A scripture based African American perspective.
Welcome to The Family Ties, a Prescription for Society.
Through this experience we invite you to join us in an exploration of the concept of family ties as a prescription for society.
YOUR HOSTS: Frank Abdul Shaheed &
Faridah Abdul-Tawwab Brown
This episode was edited by Darryl D Anderson of AMG - Ambassador Media Group visit https://www.ambassador-mediagroup.com/
__________________________________
Music Credit
Back Home by Ghostrifter Official | https://soundcloud.com/ghostrifter-official
Music promoted by https://www.free-stock-music.com
Creative Commons / Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International (CC BY-SA 4.0)
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/
Copyright 2024
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Frank (00:17):
Peace be upon the family, as we welcome you to another
experience of The Family Ties, aprescription for society.
I am your co host, Frank AbdulShahid.
Faridah (00:28):
And I am your co host, Farida Abdul Tawab Brown.
Before we get started, don'tforget to subscribe so you can
stay up to date and get all thelatest episodes.
So it is a pleasure to be backhere with you, our listening
audience, and here with you,Frank, on this exciting show.
Saturday afternoon.
I am actually really, reallypleased and honored to be able
(00:49):
to introduce our guests, ourfirst guests on today's podcast.
And they are very dear and nearto me.
These are three men from myfamily, my father, my mother,
Qasim Abdul Tawab, my brother,Tariq Abdul Tawab, joining us
from Jackson, Mississippi, andmy nephew, Ihsan Fonusi, joining
us from Richmond, Virginia.
(01:10):
So today we promise to have anenlightening and exciting
conversation for the show.
And we hope to hear feedbackfrom you, our audience on this
initial conversation with ourguests.
Frank (01:21):
Yes.
And I concur with this wonderfulopening and introduction that
you made for these wonderfulgroup of men.
And as we are evolving.
This podcast into something veryinteractive and to actually
address all aspects of thefamily ties and this
prescription that we have forsociety.
So it's interesting, it'splanned, and it's designed for
(01:44):
us to begin this first series,as I like to call it, of having
guests on the show.
And we want to begin with themen because of society and what
society has brought us.
Provided for us in the need, wehave to respond to society.
Men play a very crucial role, avery determinating role in what
it is designed to hold societytogether.
(02:07):
Ultimately coming from one ideato multiple ideas, to multiple
systems, and to ultimately to aprocess that the world can
benefit in all aspects in everyavenue of the life, the whole
life that we were designed by,by our creator.
I just want to begin thisconversation first with just
(02:28):
kind of giving some language.
I would say to kind of set thetone of the, of the, of the
conversation.
So when we, when I have men heretoday, so we just want to say so
what is a man, you know, we'rein today's time and ultimately
these identifications arebecoming a little blurred.
In a sense, but we just kind ofwant to, for this conversation,
(02:49):
set the tone as to what these,what it means to be a man.
So in the dictionary, the wordman means an adult male human
being.
So when we're referencing man inthis conversation, we're
referencing an adult male humanbeing as a now for grammar
purposes for a verb.
What is a man?
One who is able to manageresponsibility, man, one who is
(03:14):
able to manage responsibilityand what we have learned and
have been sensitized to, andthat the world has benefited
from was our late leader, ImamWD Muhammad, who introduced to
us that man is mind, man ismind.
So even in the language of theterm human being.
(03:39):
There is a reference tothinking, to thought, to be able
to process, to be able to thinkabout, about your role, about
your interactions.
So human being in itselfsuggests a thinking creature.
So man does mind now to adddevelopment to that and add
layers to that, the term father,what is a father, a father, and
(04:02):
as a now would be a male parentas a verb, a father would be one
who originates institutes.
And makes pathways, he is themodel, he is the leader, that is
what father means in thedictionary that we get from
Merriam Webster dictionary as awhat man and what father means.
(04:25):
So in our history.
There's always been an assemblyof men.
Men have always come together.
Men have always come together todecide what's best for society,
what's best for themselves,always having to plan for the
society for its success.
So in our history, you know, Iwant to reference the, a few of
these particular comingtogether.
(04:47):
One would be the Niagaramovement in history about men
coming together to set adetermination.
And often it was seen as thebeginning of the civil rights.
Movement in the early 1900s,there was a Cleveland summit
that was held in Cleveland,Ohio.
And this is when Muhammad Alidecided that he threw his stance
(05:07):
and his membership in the nationof Islam under the honorable
Elijah Muhammad to not Enlist inthe draft.
So because of that, he was hitwith financial issues and there
were other celebrities such asJim Brown Bill Russell, Kareem
Abdul Jabbar, who decided tocome together with other
athletes to stand and supporthim in this type of financial
situation.
So men coming together todetermine what will be best
(05:30):
going forward.
The Tuskegee Institute for BlackFarmers one of our great Booker
T.
Washington's and his idea ofwanting to support black
farmers.
Having these con theseconventions to address the
issues of farming, to addressthe issues of education and all
aspects of society.
So these are moments in ourperiod in lifetime to, to
(05:51):
suggest to us that this is whatmen do in order to fulfill the
role of man.
This is what men do.
We have to come together.
We have to put our mindstogether, the thinking to
address the sensitivities of thecommunity.
So, and often thosesensitivities.
Are the woman men come togetherto protect the women.
(06:12):
So this is hopefully in thisepisode, we are going to have
some dialogue with these greatmen and have an opportunity to.
Listen to them in their periodsof their development and give us
ideas and give us suggestionsand give us their history as to
them being men in this society.
So I want to welcome you allthree, brother Kasim, brother
(06:32):
Ihsan and brother Tariq to thiswonderful podcast.
And I know you guys will addgreat value.
to our listening audience tothis podcast.
Faridah (06:40):
What a wonderful context you gave us.
So I'd just like to begin withour, my father brother Qasim
Abdul Tawab, if you could justgive our listening audience a
brief introduction of yourselfand if you could perhaps speak
to the any one of the aspects ofthe definition of manhood that
that brother Frank shared withus.
Quasim (07:00):
Okay, well, assalamu alaykum to everyone.
I'm Qasim Abdul Zawab.
When I think of the categoriesof men and fathers, I don't
really look to myself.
I look to my father and the menwho gave me a model of what
(07:22):
manhood was about.
And so I'm a child of the civilrights era.
Came of age in the 1960s, ofcourse, lifted the fifties and
the the giants that I saw werepeople like Benjamin Elijah
Mays, Joe Lewis, Willie Mays,and they were all men who were
(07:49):
striking by.
Their, their character for mewas striking by the character.
And I should add people like BudPowell and Miles Davis all of
the, we had a whole panoply ofheroes within our own community
that were first for us in termsof men.
So I bought everything in mylife has been influenced by
(08:12):
them.
And of course, the the toweringfigures of the sixties We're Dr.
Martin Luther King Jr.
and the Honorable ElijahMuhammad and Malcolm X.
So all of those people chargedme up with the feeling that we,
that a man had a lot of work todo because we had a lot of
(08:32):
progress to make.
So I'll just make that my briefintroduction.
Faridah (08:37):
Oh, thank you for that context.
I, I think we have a lot tolearn and I, I guess I would
push back a little bit and say Iwould add you to that list of,
of giants.
You may not be known in the, youknow, in the main, so to speak,
but you certainly are one ofthose giants from that
generation.
Next, if we could have anintroduction from my dear baby
brother, If you will allow me tocall you that, Tariq.
Tariq (09:00):
Absolutely.
As salamu alaykum.
Yes, at 6'6 I rarely get theterm baby, so I'll take it and
I'll love it.
Because it won't happen again.
But yes, my name is Tariq AbdulTawab.
I am the son of the illustriousand greed giant in the civil
rights movement and in ourculture, Qasim Abdul Tawab.
Father of six children.
of the also illustrious Ehsan onthe panel with us, and brother
(09:22):
Tafar as, as, as introduced.
Briefly, I, I, I mirror myfather, you know I, I always
used to say when I, wheneversomeone gave me credit for being
a good father or a good man insociety And then took away
credit from others.
I would say, well, if you'regoing to, if you want to take
away credit from men that werenot raised with fathers, then
don't give me credit for being astrong man, because I didn't
(09:45):
read any book.
I didn't do anything special.
I just did what my father didand it seemed to work out at a
very high level in every portionof my life.
So, you know, I, being a man wassomething that was.
It was already given, you know,because I was raised by men, my
grandfather, my father my uncleand for the meaning that you
gave, I'll try, I'll try to belight, right?
Not the meaning you gave, butwhen you're looking at the
(10:06):
meaning for me, I've alwayslooked at the verb, And I've
always looked at the thedefinition.
So, you know, I look at man andverb, and when you're talking
short, you're talking about theability to operate or to run
right.
And sure, when someone says man,the equipment man, the front
lines man, the tower, right?
And then when you look at what aman is, by definition, as you
just pointed out, is the male,right?
(10:27):
So I tend to look at it as achild of a, of the civil rights
movement or a child of a childof the civil rights movement and
a child of the age of technologyand information, right?
Put those two together, right?
Where I can Google something Ican verify and I can get to
information expeditiously.
I tend to look at it from whatwe don't have in that
definition.
(10:47):
And what immediately jumped outat me before even, You know
talking today was that asafrican american men What is
intentionally taken from us isthe ability to operate anything
in our own community, right?
The exact definition of the verbis exactly what is
systematically taken from us ona daily basis And i'll just
(11:08):
leave that there because that'sthe the factual side And then
when I look at the definition ofmale you talk about the
reproductive option, right?
and so in the face of The, the,the, the, the nigger problem,
the slave problem, the blackproblem.
Again, these are factual issuesthat the government of the
United States has addressed asways to get rid of people that
may be hostile to this state,right?
(11:29):
That are children of slaves.
Then you have to look at what'sbeen taken from us.
There has been our ability toreproduce.
So when you look up male, yousee that reproductive portion as
a part of the definition of it.
Right.
So to me, I, I focus on thethings that lie within the
definition that you all havementioned.
that are have been taken fromus.
(11:49):
You can talk black codes, youknow, are continued to be taken
from us.
You can talk mass incarceration.
You can talk planned parenthoodand you can talk a lot of other
things.
But that's what jumps out at mewhen we talk about the
definition of man, male.
I love, I grew up off of man ismind, right?
In my generation, I haven'tgotten that far to mind yet.
Right.
Because you have to have theability to exist and to
(12:09):
reproduce.
So that's kind of where I'mstuck at in a
Frank (12:12):
good way.
The family ties, theprescription for society is
manned as mine.
And this is the platform thatwe're using to make sure that we
Introducing this concept to theaudience who've never heard it
before.
So that way going forward forthem, they won't see a lot of
the negativity or the planning,as we may say, of forces that's
designed to hold us from havingour optimal.
(12:35):
Expression, and this will be apathway for them to see what
they can come to their bestconclusion.
The model, the model humans,
Tariq (12:41):
and I'm looking at it with great anticipation because
that word you say ties is themost important part, right?
You can have it that you want totie one in a tie.
It doesn't mean that loop isgoing to connect and both sides
come through.
So I agree with you a millionpercent that ties portion.
We've got to make sure that as apeople, we're up to the point
where that tie connects.
And those folks that we'rereaching out to, and we want to
(13:02):
understand man is mine at apoint where they can understand
it and their president hasn'tset them back so far.
That that doesn't hit where wewant it to, but I love it.
Yes, sir.
Faridah (13:11):
And joining the conversation last, but certainly
not least, is Ihsan
Ihsaan (13:16):
Fanusi.
Assalamu alaikum, everyone.
I think that to, to, to join atthe end.
of a discussion.
It sort of benefits you and itdisadvantages you in, in, in
kind of similar ways.
And I think it's sort of fittingfor the way that generations
work, right?
(13:36):
Because being at the end of ageneration, you, you got to
listen to and absorb all theknowledge from the people who
came before you, right?
My uncle, brother Tariq and mygrandfather, brother Qasim, you
know, so I get to benefit fromall that knowledge.
And even while I'm listening,you know, I'm thinking, all
right, let me add this to myresponse.
Let me add that.
Because, you know, you naturallybenefit from picking that up.
(14:00):
But then at the same time, youknow, you, you, you have to find
a way to make that original,find a way to make that yours.
And when my, when Brother Qasimtalked about the giants that he
looked up to, it really remindedme of the, the phrase, you know
essentially you're, we'restanding on the shoulders of
(14:21):
giants, and that's the onlyreason that.
we were able to reach so high.
And I think that that really isa, another part of the
definition of man.
When we, we think about it, Ithink everybody really touched
on this, but I think just todefine it further is that, you
know, part of being a man isbeing a role model, you know,
and leaving a legacy for thenext generation or for people
(14:44):
for to follow, right.
So part of being a man or partof being a leader is showing
people how to do something,showing people.
what it is how they should act,you know, by leading by example,
essentially.
And so I think that this tiesinto all of the things that that
brother Cosm was talking aboutwith having good character,
(15:05):
right?
The only real way to transmitthat good character is to live
it.
Right?
You can talk about goodcharacter all you want, but
unless it's something that's inyour actions, it's not going to
be something that's reallythat's really embraced.
And then likewise, as brotherTariq was talking about, about
(15:26):
establishing your own things,you know, operating your own
communities, establishingbusiness, establishing life
within the community.
Again, all of this has to bedone in a way where it's,
replicable for futuregenerations.
So part of being a man, I think,is creating that legacy.
And that's something that Ithink a lot of people look up to
(15:47):
when they're trying to establishthemselves as their own man.
Frank (15:51):
Absolutely.
Wonderful, wonderful response.
Wonderful response, brotherIssan.
Yes.
Faridah (15:55):
So I would just like to jump in there and ask the
question and perhaps brotherQasim, you might address this
because I think it's in responseto something that Tariq brought
up.
And as well as, and that Ihsanpicked up on.
And this idea of Tariq mentionedwhat the, the forces that have
existed that have served as, asbarriers for men establishing
(16:18):
and exerting that power.
That vigor and vitality in thecommunity.
And I know that you came throughthe experience of the nation of
Islam under the leadership ofthe Honorable Elijah Muhammad.
And my understanding of it isthat there was a very specific
program that was in place at amindset that said that the
responsibility of the men whowere you know, picking
(16:40):
themselves up from the mud anddusting themselves off.
Once they had accepted thatresponsibility, it was also
their responsibility to go backout and begin fishing.
And so if you could speak a bitto the rationale and the logic
behind that movement thataddressed some of those things
that Tarek was speaking about interms of the barriers that have
existed in the life of ourpeople, particularly when it
(17:03):
comes to manhood.
Quasim (17:04):
I'm going to do a little dodging and fainting here.
If that's okay I was talking,what's that about you and me,
Mayfield?
I love the way Mayfield canfight a fight and he never gets
hit
Faridah (17:15):
Mayweather
Quasim (17:18):
Yes, well for me and this is i'm sure to a degree of
function just of age Even thoughI still think i'm 34, but I
ain't I always have to stretchout.
I'm looking at a much longertime span, certainly than the
(17:42):
civil rights movement, as wecall it.
Certainly than my life.
And that's why I love the titleof the autobiography of Booker
T.
Washington, Up From Slavery.
Ihsaan (17:56):
Yes.
Quasim (17:57):
My context is we are slave.
We, we, we were.
A slave people.
He was brought here to beslaved, enslaved, however you
put it.
And our journey is coming upfrom there.
And to think back to theHonorable Elijah Muhammad and
the fruit of Islam.
And I always felt, and I thinkthe historians will bear this
(18:20):
out, that the Honorable ElijahMuhammad was emphasizing a
aspect of the up from slaverytrail, chill.
The Frederick Douglass tale ofhow we build ourselves from that
which is demeaned to that whichis valuable.
(18:42):
But that was kind of sidetrackedunder the integrationist push of
the civil rights movement, theNAACP, the Southern Christian
Leadership Conference.
Student Nonviolent CoordinatingCommittee, et cetera, were
pushing between 1954 and 1965.
The emphasis was getting in andnot so much emphasis on building
(19:06):
up ourselves, building up ourmanhood, protecting our women.
That emphasis came mainly fromthe Nation of Islam, but it
spread through everybody throughthe United States.
Particularly in the 60s, theMuhammad Speaks newspaper, which
was the voice of this movement.
So so I would say that thatspirit of fishing, that spirit
(19:30):
of trying to unite, of buildinga black united front, of having
all men stand up, that that wasa spirit that went long before
the honor of Elijah Muhammad anda spirit that is still strong
today.
But of course, as, as, as Tariqmentioned, it is under threat.
We always.
(19:50):
I hope that at least a littlebit spoke to your point.
Frank (19:54):
Yes.
And I think that's a wonderfullittle level of information to
contextualize what the sixtiesreally was and how it helped
impact us and progress us goingforward.
Oftentimes, as we look at.
It has history.
We tend to take things out ofthe proper context.
We want, we like to isolatethings and look at that as the
whole picture and fail to seehow all of these connectivities,
(20:16):
the connectivities of all theseevents actually help push us
forward in this whole process.
So in this, in this podcast,what we would like to do is we
would like to just stress theemphasis that.
You know, the word manage theword man is in the word manage
to be able to handle levels ofresponsibility.
(20:37):
We want to ensure that ouraudience understands that when
we speak of man and manhood,we're speaking of the ideal man.
We're speaking of the man thatis in his greatest picture and
his most fulfilling picture andhow we make our way.
And make pathways, createpathways for us to get to that
picture of manhood, becauseultimately in that position, it
(21:00):
gives life to every other aspectof the community and it builds
community life.
And it's what connects theseties, create these ties for us
to actually build our life.
Now there's, you know, in thewomb, there are restrictions in
the womb.
There are challenges in the wombthat prevent us from being able
to stretch ourselves out as achild.
So those nine months, we areconfined to a certain posture, a
(21:21):
certain position, and we'retrying to wrangle for freedom.
We're trying to wrangle forbetter, you know, better
expression.
But the womb itself is designingus to prepare for what the next
steps are.
So we don't want to put too muchemphasis on what has restricted
us.
In our movement, but more orless look at it as ways that it
helped develop us to be able tohandle the next level of
(21:44):
responsibility in our lifetime.
So brother is saying if youcould possibly in your studies
as a young man and having thatas a history for you, you know,
what does that look like as faras.
Your grandfather, brother Kasimand his intra interactions in
that sixties and that wranglingin the sixties of trying to have
our best life and now in the twothousands, you know, what does
(22:06):
that look like for you and yourgeneration
Ihsaan (22:09):
for me?
I see the past and I see historyas it's obviously a way to
provide us, you know anunderstanding of what has
worked, what hasn't worked.
And I think that's what peopleoften take away from history,
but I think something that isless.
(22:29):
acknowledged is the fact thathistory can also give you a
sense of identity, right?
It can also give you a, adirection, you know, apart from,
you know, the practical, thisworked, this didn't.
It also shows you, I think it'ssomething that It gives you
something to connect with and Ithink a lot of people,
(22:50):
especially in our generation, inmy generation have been missing,
right?
Whether it's from not knowingwhere your family is from, not
knowing or not having strongmale role models to grow up
with.
It leaves you very susceptibleto the direction of other
forces, right?
(23:11):
I think there's a reason why alot of young men look up to
their fathers or to theirgrandfathers, right?
Or to their uncles, you know,because that lineage is a source
of identity.
Like it's in your DNA.
Yes.
You know, you naturally want tofollow the, the people who came
before you, you know, yourforefathers.
And so I think a pro an issue orsomething that we have to face
(23:34):
in our generation is how do wecontest with not having those
role models available as a lotof people don't.
You know, and I think that forme personally, you know, having
my grandfather in my life and myfather in my life, people who
have worked very hard, verydiligently in order to establish
(23:56):
things within the community ithas allowed me to have, I don't
think pride is the right word,but I think a sense of knowledge
of what I'm trying to do.
Who, who am I?
You know, and I think that a lotof people who don't have that,
who don't have those people intheir lives, you know, they
could follow their friends, youknow, or their peers who might
(24:20):
be just as lost as them.
Right.
And I think, as a, as a youngerperson, you're always sort of In
that stage of trying todetermine exactly who you are,
because you know, you're notgoing to be exactly like your
parents or your grandparents,but with that, with that link
being cut off, being severed,right?
(24:40):
As Brother Qasim was talkingabout, you know, as a people, we
were brought here andintentionally severed from All
of our heritage, our history inAfrica, and that's why the
pioneers had to establishsomething.
They had to establish their ownculture, their own, you know,
support structures, family,their own values.
(25:02):
And so in order to take thatand, and sort of build upon it,
I think that We'll have to makea, a, a strong, we'll have to
more strongly value history andvalue historical figures and
value the people who came beforeus, who tried to make those
(25:23):
institutions strong.
Frank (25:25):
So as men, I am named after my father.
And as you brother said before,you know, especially about the
costume and also Tariq and youtwo are saying, you know, I, I
looked up to my father and myfather was, he was a giant to
me.
He had four other brothers.
So, and these guys were all likevery muscular, very strong, like
(25:45):
strapping men.
They, and I don't like to usethis term, but I'm gonna use it
anyway.
Like often people would say he'sa man's man.
Like they were those type ofmen, my grandfather, his uncle,
they were those types of men.
So we.
We knew my generation knew thestandard was for us to be seen
as men.
And we also worked verydiligently to get their approval
(26:09):
because once we got theirapproval, we knew we would have
arrived.
We didn't need the world'sapproval.
We just needed their approval.
So these are the, these are theties.
These are the family ties thatwe have that.
Somehow another had beenweakened and somehow another had
been severed as brother Tariqhas said, as, as absolutely have
(26:29):
been severed.
So we want to use this platformto try to bring those ties back
together.
We want to be able to, to tiethem back together and find ways
and pathways.
So we realized that ultimatelyit began at home.
It began with the immediatefamily before the world could
see us as men.
We needed to be men in our ownhomes, men, meaning leaders.
(26:51):
We need to have leadership andbasically the state of manhood
in the world is basicallytalking about the state of
leadership, you know,comprehensively is leadership,
bad leadership.
So how do we get ourself back toleadership?
So I want to go to brothercostume for a second and just
kind of get his feelings on, onhow that looked for him and how
he thinks that we can actually.
(27:12):
Bring those ties back together.
Quasim (27:14):
Now, all I want to do is give, as the church folk used to
say, a hearty amen.
You put your finger on it.
When you said we were lookingfor was our father's approval
and approval of the other men,and we didn't really give a
(27:35):
tinkers, you know, what about.
Oh, the folk.
That's right.
You named it.
You named it.
And I'm, I'm going to claim it.
Yes, sir.
Frank (27:43):
Yes, sir.
So, so I want to, I'm sorry.
Go ahead.
I,
Faridah (27:48):
I, I just I just have a question on, on that point.
And it's something that Tariqbrought up earlier.
And I don't know if, if youknow, you'd like to, if you have
ideas about this Tariq anddefinitely wanting to hear your
your your, your position on thisdaddy.
And, and of course, Ihsan, andthen maybe even and it has to do
with the ties and reachingpeople.
(28:09):
You know, there was a quote, avery well known quote from
Frederick Douglass that says,and I'm paraphrasing here, but
it's, it's basically somethingabout being easier to, to build
strong children than to, tobuild up broken men, you know?
And so the idea being that ourstrongest position are the, the,
the, best way to reach andreform the idea of manhood and,
(28:34):
and excellence in humanity wouldbe to start with the boys.
But, but then that leaves so I,I just wanted to get you guys,
all of you, your sense of yourunderstanding of establishing or
reestablishing those familyties, where priorities might be,
or even how we might reach thosewho seem to be.
Out of reach.
(28:55):
Have you given any thought tothat?
And any one of you can takethat.
Tariq (28:59):
You want to go?
I was saying, I'll follow you.
I just
Quasim (29:03):
want to say this for the current moment.
I think brother Frank and I weretalking about another historical
moment in a particular aspect orparticular location within the
African American community.
I think Fardy, you wanted to setus up to talk about another
(29:25):
aspect, and I didn't address it.
You and Tariq, I think, aretalking about somebody else,
another part of our community,another issue with our
community.
And the Honorable ElijahMuhammad was reaching,
particularly in the 50s, afterMinister Malcolm became the The
spokesperson and the energycenter for that movement was
(29:48):
reaching out to the folks whoweren't being reached, I think,
by the phenomenon that BrotherFrank and I were talking about
the people who were not gettingthat kind of strong message.
You know, home situation.
And so the FOI was known forgoing out to folks everywhere.
Those who were doing well, andthose who were not doing well,
(30:09):
particularly those were notdoing well and inviting them to
another picture.
And today and this is what Iwanted to come to.
I think people who are soimportant today are the people
who are taking on, because we'vegot, we've got a, we've got a
situation for whatever A largerand larger number of young men
(30:33):
are not in contact with the kindof role models to help them
construct constructive lives.
And I think that that's whatTariq was speaking of.
And so people like Tariq, and Idon't think he's gone into where
his work is, but he does workwhere he's, where he is going
into those without the model andtrying to do something.
(30:53):
I'll let him say what it
Tariq (30:54):
is
Quasim (30:54):
that
Tariq (30:54):
he's doing.
But it's, thank you, daddy.
I, I, I think the, I think the Ithink you start with, and you
know, I try to work back in myhead, right?
I'm so used to know you all, butyou start with where we started
with.
Right.
And, and I think the biggestthing right now, and as San has
pointed to it very, very, very,very eloquently is the legacy
and legacy is not just somethingto look at and say, wow, that
(31:16):
was great.
I think as San pointed at legacyis leaving something to work
with, right?
So as a son, I have something towork with.
And I think that the mostimportant place to start when
we're talking about this is whatare you leaving the next
generation to work with?
So my father, who happens to besitting here, but even if he
weren't, he, he, he gave mebooks, intelligence,
(31:37):
information, a lot, a lot ofinformation, a very little
amount of opinion, right?
And I'm very appreciative ofthat because it left me when I
was then to take the reins andto move forward.
I was then left with a lot ofinformation and a very strong
opinion.
And that's a very great thing.
The combination to have, right?
So when you start with the quotethat Frederick Douglass made,
you've got to start there andyou've got to look at a problem
(31:59):
in order to make that tie, orlike my father's mentioning,
like the nation of Islam did inorder to reach that portion of
the society, which I may say,when you're talking black males,
we're talking about a majority.
So you may want to shift thelanguage a little bit to
understand that if we're talkingabout sustenance, viability, and
long term sustainability.
(32:20):
The conversation of those thatthe nation was reaching should
be the bigger conversation orthe high beams, not the low
beams, because this panel is aminority when it comes to black
males today, that section is themajority.
Even if the numbers are skim.
So when you hear a statement bythe illustrious Frederick
Douglass, who was working withwhat he had at the time, right?
That says it's easy to buildstrong children than broken men.
(32:43):
You have to understand the hintsof white supremacy that are even
in that, that come from theeducational institutions that
even our brother Frederickattended, right?
And you have to understand thatthat is the moment for me, that
the break that you will not beable to ever tie again, happens
the moment you take what is andsay that it's done, then you
(33:04):
have accepted.
The throwing away of an entiregeneration of people almost and
therefore for me you started ata place where a victory is is
not Just unlikely a victory isimpossible.
Now.
Let's redraw this landscapewhich What you're hoping and
it's almost comedic to a setyou're hoping that a new
(33:26):
generation of boys Can look atyou erasing a generation of men
and somehow, even as we've sathere and said each male on this
panel has said that the fatherthat came before them was in
some way the conduit for whichthey found the strength to live
in this generation of oppressionand attacks.
(33:47):
We think that that generationwill somehow majestically,
magically figure out how to bestrong men in society simply
because we pay attention tothem.
While we're throwing theirfathers away.
Now that's a, that's a jump.
Some may say, but it's not.
So when we say that a, a, a, a,that a portion of the society is
broken, your mistake is okay.
(34:10):
Okay.
Well, as men, any other societyhas first put where they are and
move from there.
When you listen to a statementof that nature, you have to
understand what it's saying.
It's saying, this is where weare.
We can't win.
So let's skip two generationsand go to the six or seven year
olds and hope that the minorityof men can dismiss the majority
(34:35):
of men and convince thesechildren that they can be men,
even though their parentscouldn't be.
That may seem like a lot tounpack, but all it's doing is
going down the actual road wejust laid out there.
So I think what we've got tostart with is to say, okay,
someone's broken.
At what point do you throw awaysomething of yours that's
(34:56):
broken?
And at what point does thatvalue play into it?
So if you've got an old watch,Frank, from your grandfather,
and that watch no longer ticks,are you tossing it in the
garage, in the garbage?
I would, I would say youprobably aren't, right?
So let's move from a watch thathas some level of value to a
person, a human being now,right?
So to say a human being isbroken to the point of throwing
(35:17):
them away and now refocusing ona different piece of equipment
and to expect you to be viewedby those that oppress you as
men, Since that's the word we'restarting with is not in the
definition of men that we'vetalked about.
He man worked in Muhammad restin peace, man is mine.
That's failing 1 million%.
(35:37):
So I don't think we can startfrom there because to me, that's
an admittance that we are notmen.
We don't have a mind that canfight what's been done to us.
In fact, we're going to grab thewhite flag, put it in the ground
and listen to what we're sayingas I close this.
The men that we're talking aboutbeing broken are generally the
men that had no hand.
In them being broken, there wasno voluntary.
(35:59):
They grew into super predatorystatus.
They grew into the reality andthe society that we, as men,
some of us, not you were saying,but some of us.
Were were there.
Some of us weren't right.
These are the ones we're talkingabout throwing away.
We're talking about judges thatright now are sitting in jail
for 40 years for admittedlytaking hundreds of Young boys
and putting them in jail whenthey did nothing to belong in
(36:21):
jail We're talking about aau andbvu coaches by the thousands
that have admittedly raped youngboys and that have done things
to them that Causes them toreach levels of mental insanity
that they can't come back fromright?
That's what we're saying.
They can't come back from parkwe're talking about Children and
then to dare think that forpeople to have this outlook, I'm
(36:41):
going to give you my Childrenand hope.
That you can then take thesechildren and have some level of
care for them to get themsomewhere else I think it's a
very very shaky foundation tostart on so if we start and and
that's I think the magic thatKasim Abdul Tawwab gave me he
gave me the information sonobody can take me and say well
young man You don't understandabsolutely not I do understand,
(37:05):
right?
And the ability to look at ittoday, which I hope is saying
can take me and make me looklike pittance with the way he's
able to take this to the nextlevel, right?
I have to say that we got toadjust that starting point.
Because the ground part, whichmy father was referencing, I'm
on the ground with the majority.
I see the losses in there.
They're stacking so quickly thatif you're looking from that
(37:27):
aspect, right?
Then the conversation wouldchange.
So I think that to change thatbar, we would have to say, well,
what is broken mean, right?
At what point do we throw awaywhat's broken?
And at what point do we thinkthat we can throw away the
parent and then create asustainable man, right?
Is a good place to start.
Frank (37:46):
Yes.
And those are very poignant andvery descriptive of our
situation currently in oursociety, but that type of
thinking and that type of actionin the, in the community.
So we were sensitized by Imam WDMuhammad with the term man is
mine, but there's another partof that too.
The other part of that is thatthe woman is the womb.
(38:09):
The womb of mine.
She is the womb for man's mind.
So she is the environment forman to have his beginnings, for
him to understand what thesensitivity is for him to manage
all of life.
So he can't manage it byhimself.
So from that perspective, we gointo family life, the man, the
woman coming together, married,having children.
(38:31):
This is when society starts.
This is the beginning of, ofsociety in that step.
So as we look forward.
We know that looking back, I'msorry, that that has been
compromised.
Society itself has compromisedthat at every turn to try to
separate the man from the woman,from the, from the man, from the
womb of his own development, hisengagement of the world, to be
(38:54):
able to provide resources forhis family.
That has been the scheme fromthe beginning.
So as we identify the scheme andunderstand that we now have a
remedy for the scheme, how do wenow process going forward?
To be able to reconnect theseties, these ties, these sacred
ties that have been severed, howdo we reconnect them?
So yes, Frederick Douglasson waslooking at a situation and
(39:15):
identified a situation.
That is absolutely true, butit's not absolute.
So we've come and we use the manis mine as the prism to look at
how Frederick Douglass looked atthings.
And now we're now sensitized togo forward and realize we need
to reconnect these these ties.
So I wanted to start with you,brother Tariq, and just ask you
really quickly since you are amarried father, husband and have
(39:38):
children yourself, what was yourperspective going forward being
married and wanting to havechildren?
And now that you do havechildren, you know, what
adjustments did you make for theidea that you wanted to have to
continue this reconnecting ofthe, of the ties that were
created from your father andfrom his father and you going
forward for your Children.
Tariq (39:59):
Yeah, I think that it was just picking up where I talked
earlier, it was, you know, itwas always very simple to pass
down what you were given, youknow and then I had the benefit,
which I don't want to takelightly of having a A father
there to reach out into andreinforce, you know every, every
aspect of it.
I mean, if your child comes toyou with a question, right, you
(40:20):
already have the answer that yougot from your father, you know,
seven times out of 10.
And if it's that old elephantsong, you know, a million and
one questions that you didn'task your father, I have the
benefit of being able to pick upthe phone and, you know, and to
call and to call my father.
I think with my sons, a bit of ashift for me was I grew up in
the same musical and socialareas, my sons.
So though, though, you know, theties, there was, there's some
(40:44):
challenges because the, the,the, the reality in which I
lived is not the reality inwhich my children live.
So for me, my father was a giantand it was unchallenged.
And, and even now it'sunchallenged because it's in my
mind for my children.
Yeah, I may be a giant, but theycan Google something.
I said, while I'm saying it andquickly tell me, you know what,
daddy, I don't, I don't thinkthat's right.
So I'm a different type ofgiant, you know, I found out 20
(41:06):
years later that my fathermight've said it was 10 people
when it was nine, right?
At that point, you can't changethat status.
So I have a, I think there's,there's a bit more of a
difficulty for me because mychildren will challenge more of
what I passed down, right?
Because the ties aren't the tiesanymore.
And that's the reality of what,of what you're implying with
Frederick Douglass.
(41:26):
The, the problem with living ata different generation is it, it
couldn't no longer be right.
So what was.
Is no longer is.
So what you're passing down canno longer be correct.
Right.
And not by right of your parentbeing incorrect.
For example, if you grew up offof, off of NAACP being cast in a
positive light, right, you mighthave a much more difficult time
(41:48):
passing that positivity of theNAACP down to your children who
can Google the original foundersand see that forward businessmen
you know, three were Europeanright wing conservatives.
And these were the folks thatpushed us towards integration,
right?
So I'm going to have a threehour conversation where my
father was only 10 minutes.
He just told me and we kept itmoving.
I may try to pass down thegiants at NAACP and my child
say, Hey, hold on a second,daddy.
(42:09):
Well, that doesn't make anysense.
Look where we are now and lookat what they did.
Why, why did this happen?
So the ties are still therebecause I have my father there.
I'm there and they're there.
I think there's just somechanges and passing it down,
right?
Because things have changed andthen there's some benefits in
passing it down.
Because you're of the samesocial and musical era.
So, I could play a rap song fromTupac called Changes to my
(42:31):
children and still teach themthrough that rap song, and their
attention is there because theystill see Tupac as a social
giant.
My father might have played me arap a song from Nat King Cole,
and I'm like, yeah, I, you know,half of the song, my father's
saying, do you see what justhappened?
There's nobody singing.
He's talking about a musicalarrangement.
And no, I don't see it at thetime, right?
Cause I'm listening to theTupac, right?
So it was much harder for myfather to get that to me.
(42:52):
If any of that makes sense.
Yes, I understand.
I
Frank (42:55):
want to throw this to Issan really quickly.
So Issan is recently a newlywedand congratulations and welcome
to the club.
You, you definitely add value tothat, to that club of married
men.
And it's a wonderful club.
So as you and your beautifulwife are looking forward to
establishing your, your life as,as a married couple, and
(43:15):
ultimately, as God willing, youguys will start having children,
you know, what is the, what isyour expectation that you think
would be to provide anenvironment for those children
to be able to maintain thoseties and for you to actually
strengthen the ties with yourchildren to ensure that you're
continuing the legacy of thosewho came before you?
Ihsaan (43:35):
That's a great question, Brother Frank.
I think.
Before I answer that, I, Ithought of something while
Brother Tariq was talkingbefore, and It reminds me of,
there's this movie that came outa long time ago, or at least for
me it was a long time ago, but Idon't remember the name of it,
(43:56):
but it had Morgan Freeman asthe, the star and he was going
into a school, you know, it waslike an inner city school and
all of the, you know, the, the,They tried to make, they made
the school like as bad aspossible, right?
Like people were going throughthe halls, you know, lean on me,
Frank (44:13):
lean on me.
It was lean on me.
Ihsaan (44:14):
Yes.
So this is, this is a famousmovie and I actually always did
not really like them.
But the reason why is because,you know, he comes into the
school, he's all, you know, hardwith the discipline.
He's like.
The first thing he does is hesays, like, he just writes like
30 or like 100 students on alist.
(44:35):
And he's like, all these guysare out of here.
They're all expelled.
Right.
And some of them are like, wait,I didn't even, I didn't sell
drugs.
I didn't do this.
He's like, nope, you're gone.
Right.
So his approach was basicallylike anybody who is, is not
going to contribute.
We're just getting them out ofhere.
Yes.
We'll deal with the rest ofthose people are just unsavable.
They're unsavable.
(44:56):
And so.
That's why I always kind of hada mixed, a mixed interpretation
of that movie, because I thinkit goes back to what Brother
Tariq was saying in that there'sthis approach sometimes, and it
might be more It might be moreof the older generation which
thinks this way, that we justsort of throw out all the
undesirables, you know, and say,they're not, they're not going,
(45:19):
they're, they're done.
We can't save them.
And I think that, you know,there has to be a little bit
more nuance, right?
When we talk about how, youknow, You know, what people can
be saved ultimately, you know,as Muslims, we believe that it's
with God, right?
The, the, the determination ofwho will be saved and who won't
be saved.
(45:40):
So we do have to try arehabilitative approach in
certain, certain areas, but thenyou also have to balance that
with, you know providing for thepeople who really are striving
and doing what they're supposedto and you know, trying to
establish community themselves.
Thanks, folks.
So there is a balance there, butyeah, that just reminded me of
(46:02):
that movie and my thoughts onthat movie But to answer your
question about how how do I planto when I do become a father
establishing?
Something a legacy for mychildren.
I think that something that thefirst thing that comes to my
mind is Incline my childrentowards what's right.
(46:27):
Because I think that when youhave a love of the good things
of things, which are good, thatwill really inform your
decisions throughout your life.
So even if at a certain point,right, it comes to the, you come
to the reality that you can'tcontrol your children, right?
Once they get to whatever theage is of.
Being their own men or their ownwomen.
(46:48):
You're not going to be able tocontrol them.
So you're, you're very limitedactually in how you can shape
them.
But I think something that youreally do have a good amount of
control over is Showing themwhat is good and making them
like certain things, which aregood, right?
Because when children come out,you know, they really they're
really kind of like a blankslate in a lot of ways Like
(47:10):
they're interested in whateveryou're interested in, right?
Like if your father took you tofootball games and you're just
gonna like football, right?
Because you know, your dad wasall excited to see whatever team
he was supporting So you mightgrow up supporting that same
team, right?
You can really have a biginfluence in what your parents
love So if you're, it goes againback to being a role model and
(47:31):
showing by action, but if youare trying to influence your
child, I feel like telling themright and wrong is, is part of
it, of course.
And you have to do that to keepthem safe and to, to, to, to
allow them to grow.
But also.
Make exciting, make, fill themwith love, with things, with
(47:51):
that, that are good, right?
And if you can do that, then Ifeel like they will naturally
figure the rest of things out.
Frank (47:59):
The praises for God, I tell you that and how you just
described that was the samethinking that I had when I was
married, became married to mywife and we were having a child
and my Struggle to determinewhat would be best for my
Children and I felt and Ithought and I believed it that I
would have to put them aroundthings that are best things that
(48:20):
are good and ultimately thatwill be able to give them
discernment to determine thatthe things that were bad wasn't
good for them.
So if I gave them the good, theyunderstood that the bad things
is something that they don'twant to be a part of, or that
would be something that justkind of stirred the soul a
little bit.
As caution.
So and I think we need to havemore of that approach and more
(48:42):
of that determination for ourfamilies going forward.
These conversations for allfamily members to determine.
We don't have to change theworld.
We can control what's in our ownhomes.
And if we have a little bit moreof a direct involvement with
that and the more concerted andspecific involvement, I think
ultimately the world changesbecause the world is really just
a reflection of what's going onin the home.
(49:03):
So but I really appreciate thosecomments that you gave.
Faridah (49:06):
So if I could just interject here before we have
some closing words from BrotherQasim, Abdul Tawwab and Tariq
and Ihsan, as we wrap up thisepisode, I would like to invite
all three of you back.
We have limited time for eachepisode, but I would like to
invite all three of you back,particularly with respect to the
(49:28):
question of ties and even goingback to the question of the
Frederick Douglass quote.
And the reason that I broughtthat quote up, and I still think
it's important and it was aninsightful, is that.
I don't necessarily look at thatquotation as an invitation to
discard.
I look at that quote as aninvitation to take what's
referred to in the Qur'an, thescripture of the Muslims, as the
(49:51):
aqaba.
It's the steep path, thedifficult road, which begins in
the Qur'an with the invitationto liberate the slave.
And so if you and this was theparticular question that I had
posed both to Brother Qasim as aformer member of the Nation of
Islam who has intimate knowledgeof that experience, and also
that he was posing, you know,leaving a question with his son,
(50:14):
my brother Tarek, who is doingvery important work on the
ground in Jackson, Mississippi,and has had this sensitivity his
entire life.
It is easier to build a strong,strong men when you start with
them as children.
But the, what the, the quotefinishes and what it says is
it's more difficult or it'seasier than, which just means
that the other enterprise.
(50:36):
is a challenging one.
But men are the ones who step upto the challenge.
Believers are the ones who saythe road is difficult, but I'm
going to embrace it becausethat's the road that gets the
most reward both in this lifeand the next.
So I would like us to return, ifyou all are willing to return as
our guests, to really you know,discuss that in more depth,
(50:57):
because I think it's important.
And so if you would, I don'tknow if Frank has something to
share before we have each of youmake a closing comment.
No,
Frank (51:05):
no, the floor
Faridah (51:06):
is there.
And please, in your closingcomment, please let us know if
you will accept our invitation.
Quasim (51:11):
So you're telling me I'm supposed to go first?
I'm here, so I will.
First of all, I would be mostpleased at any time to be with
these excellent men and alsowith the excellent co host
Farida Abdul Zawah Brown.
And I would just say that Iwill, you know, give a little
historical perspective becausethere's not a lot for me to say.
(51:32):
The men facing the future arehere.
And I will think.
My creation and the creator ofthe heavens and the earth that I
can see these these these menwho are doing so much And who
can approach problems that Ican't even begin to sort out and
(51:54):
just say I had something to dowith it by doing that, which my
father said me to do it.
So yeah, I'll be, I'll bedelighted to come back if that
if that invitation is accepted.
Yes, sir.
Faridah (52:06):
All right.
Well, Ehsan, if we can have youanswer the question and let us
know if you'll be willing tojoin us.
Ihsaan (52:12):
Yeah, I would, I would absolutely like to come back.
I mean, we had such a greatdiscussion already in this short
amount of time.
And so, there's so much morethat I'd love to talk about and
just listen and hear the otherperspectives.
So I'm definitely, I definitelywant to come back.
I feel like I've already learnedso much just in this
(52:32):
conversation.
So yeah, I would definitelyaccept.
Faridah (52:37):
Wonderful.
Thank you so much.
Ihsaan (52:40):
All
Tariq (52:40):
right.
Faridah (52:40):
And Tariq.
Tariq (52:41):
So, very quickly, I'll definitely accept it.
I'd be more than happy to comeback and speak about it.
It's a lot of important factsthat have been picked up here
that we need to continue to talkabout.
The most importantly when wemake comments about who's doing
the right thing and who's doingthe wrong thing the continued
conversation is are they or arethey not?
And I'll leave that there tillnext time.
Faridah (52:59):
All right.
Well, that was our those wereour guests.
We are grateful to you forjoining us as the first guest,
the inaugural guest, if youwill, on the podcast, Family
Ties, The Prescription forSociety.
Frank (53:12):
So as we will close, we would say the praise is always
for God, always.
And Farida, we have definitelymoved one step closer to
Destination Excellence.
Faridah (53:23):
Until next time, let us remain conscious of our creator
of the sacred relationship ofparent and child, and of the
family ties that bind us.
Subscribe to the podcast andcome back next time for a new
episode of The Family Ties
Frank (53:38):
from Frank Abdul Shaheed
Faridah (53:41):
and Farida Abdul
Frank (53:45):
Peace.
Peace be upon, be upon
Faridah (53:49):
the family,
the family.
Peace be upon the family, as we welcome you to another
experience of The Family Ties, aprescription for society.
I am your co host, Frank AbdulShahid.
Faridah (00:28):
And I am your co host, Farida Abdul Tawab Brown.
Before we get started, don'tforget to subscribe so you can
stay up to date and get all thelatest episodes.
So it is a pleasure to be backhere with you, our listening
audience, and here with you,Frank, on this exciting show.
Saturday afternoon.
I am actually really, reallypleased and honored to be able
(00:49):
to introduce our guests, ourfirst guests on today's podcast.
And they are very dear and nearto me.
These are three men from myfamily, my father, my mother,
Qasim Abdul Tawab, my brother,Tariq Abdul Tawab, joining us
from Jackson, Mississippi, andmy nephew, Ihsan Fonusi, joining
us from Richmond, Virginia.
(01:10):
So today we promise to have anenlightening and exciting
conversation for the show.
And we hope to hear feedbackfrom you, our audience on this
initial conversation with ourguests.
Frank (01:21):
Yes.
And I concur with this wonderfulopening and introduction that
you made for these wonderfulgroup of men.
And as we are evolving.
This podcast into something veryinteractive and to actually
address all aspects of thefamily ties and this
prescription that we have forsociety.
So it's interesting, it'splanned, and it's designed for
(01:44):
us to begin this first series,as I like to call it, of having
guests on the show.
And we want to begin with themen because of society and what
society has brought us.
Provided for us in the need, wehave to respond to society.
Men play a very crucial role, avery determinating role in what
it is designed to hold societytogether.
(02:07):
Ultimately coming from one ideato multiple ideas, to multiple
systems, and to ultimately to aprocess that the world can
benefit in all aspects in everyavenue of the life, the whole
life that we were designed by,by our creator.
I just want to begin thisconversation first with just
(02:28):
kind of giving some language.
I would say to kind of set thetone of the, of the, of the
conversation.
So when we, when I have men heretoday, so we just want to say so
what is a man, you know, we'rein today's time and ultimately
these identifications arebecoming a little blurred.
In a sense, but we just kind ofwant to, for this conversation,
(02:49):
set the tone as to what these,what it means to be a man.
So in the dictionary, the wordman means an adult male human
being.
So when we're referencing man inthis conversation, we're
referencing an adult male humanbeing as a now for grammar
purposes for a verb.
What is a man?
One who is able to manageresponsibility, man, one who is
(03:14):
able to manage responsibilityand what we have learned and
have been sensitized to, andthat the world has benefited
from was our late leader, ImamWD Muhammad, who introduced to
us that man is mind, man ismind.
So even in the language of theterm human being.
(03:39):
There is a reference tothinking, to thought, to be able
to process, to be able to thinkabout, about your role, about
your interactions.
So human being in itselfsuggests a thinking creature.
So man does mind now to adddevelopment to that and add
layers to that, the term father,what is a father, a father, and
(04:02):
as a now would be a male parentas a verb, a father would be one
who originates institutes.
And makes pathways, he is themodel, he is the leader, that is
what father means in thedictionary that we get from
Merriam Webster dictionary as awhat man and what father means.
(04:25):
So in our history.
There's always been an assemblyof men.
Men have always come together.
Men have always come together todecide what's best for society,
what's best for themselves,always having to plan for the
society for its success.
So in our history, you know, Iwant to reference the, a few of
these particular comingtogether.
(04:47):
One would be the Niagaramovement in history about men
coming together to set adetermination.
And often it was seen as thebeginning of the civil rights.
Movement in the early 1900s,there was a Cleveland summit
that was held in Cleveland,Ohio.
And this is when Muhammad Alidecided that he threw his stance
(05:07):
and his membership in the nationof Islam under the honorable
Elijah Muhammad to not Enlist inthe draft.
So because of that, he was hitwith financial issues and there
were other celebrities such asJim Brown Bill Russell, Kareem
Abdul Jabbar, who decided tocome together with other
athletes to stand and supporthim in this type of financial
situation.
So men coming together todetermine what will be best
(05:30):
going forward.
The Tuskegee Institute for BlackFarmers one of our great Booker
T.
Washington's and his idea ofwanting to support black
farmers.
Having these con theseconventions to address the
issues of farming, to addressthe issues of education and all
aspects of society.
So these are moments in ourperiod in lifetime to, to
(05:51):
suggest to us that this is whatmen do in order to fulfill the
role of man.
This is what men do.
We have to come together.
We have to put our mindstogether, the thinking to
address the sensitivities of thecommunity.
So, and often thosesensitivities.
Are the woman men come togetherto protect the women.
(06:12):
So this is hopefully in thisepisode, we are going to have
some dialogue with these greatmen and have an opportunity to.
Listen to them in their periodsof their development and give us
ideas and give us suggestionsand give us their history as to
them being men in this society.
So I want to welcome you allthree, brother Kasim, brother
(06:32):
Ihsan and brother Tariq to thiswonderful podcast.
And I know you guys will addgreat value.
to our listening audience tothis podcast.
Faridah (06:40):
What a wonderful context you gave us.
So I'd just like to begin withour, my father brother Qasim
Abdul Tawab, if you could justgive our listening audience a
brief introduction of yourselfand if you could perhaps speak
to the any one of the aspects ofthe definition of manhood that
that brother Frank shared withus.
Quasim (07:00):
Okay, well, assalamu alaykum to everyone.
I'm Qasim Abdul Zawab.
When I think of the categoriesof men and fathers, I don't
really look to myself.
I look to my father and the menwho gave me a model of what
(07:22):
manhood was about.
And so I'm a child of the civilrights era.
Came of age in the 1960s, ofcourse, lifted the fifties and
the the giants that I saw werepeople like Benjamin Elijah
Mays, Joe Lewis, Willie Mays,and they were all men who were
(07:49):
striking by.
Their, their character for mewas striking by the character.
And I should add people like BudPowell and Miles Davis all of
the, we had a whole panoply ofheroes within our own community
that were first for us in termsof men.
So I bought everything in mylife has been influenced by
(08:12):
them.
And of course, the the toweringfigures of the sixties We're Dr.
Martin Luther King Jr.
and the Honorable ElijahMuhammad and Malcolm X.
So all of those people chargedme up with the feeling that we,
that a man had a lot of work todo because we had a lot of
(08:32):
progress to make.
So I'll just make that my briefintroduction.
Faridah (08:37):
Oh, thank you for that context.
I, I think we have a lot tolearn and I, I guess I would
push back a little bit and say Iwould add you to that list of,
of giants.
You may not be known in the, youknow, in the main, so to speak,
but you certainly are one ofthose giants from that
generation.
Next, if we could have anintroduction from my dear baby
brother, If you will allow me tocall you that, Tariq.
Tariq (09:00):
Absolutely.
As salamu alaykum.
Yes, at 6'6 I rarely get theterm baby, so I'll take it and
I'll love it.
Because it won't happen again.
But yes, my name is Tariq AbdulTawab.
I am the son of the illustriousand greed giant in the civil
rights movement and in ourculture, Qasim Abdul Tawab.
Father of six children.
of the also illustrious Ehsan onthe panel with us, and brother
(09:22):
Tafar as, as, as introduced.
Briefly, I, I, I mirror myfather, you know I, I always
used to say when I, wheneversomeone gave me credit for being
a good father or a good man insociety And then took away
credit from others.
I would say, well, if you'regoing to, if you want to take
away credit from men that werenot raised with fathers, then
don't give me credit for being astrong man, because I didn't
(09:45):
read any book.
I didn't do anything special.
I just did what my father didand it seemed to work out at a
very high level in every portionof my life.
So, you know, I, being a man wassomething that was.
It was already given, you know,because I was raised by men, my
grandfather, my father my uncleand for the meaning that you
gave, I'll try, I'll try to belight, right?
Not the meaning you gave, butwhen you're looking at the
(10:06):
meaning for me, I've alwayslooked at the verb, And I've
always looked at the thedefinition.
So, you know, I look at man andverb, and when you're talking
short, you're talking about theability to operate or to run
right.
And sure, when someone says man,the equipment man, the front
lines man, the tower, right?
And then when you look at what aman is, by definition, as you
just pointed out, is the male,right?
(10:27):
So I tend to look at it as achild of a, of the civil rights
movement or a child of a childof the civil rights movement and
a child of the age of technologyand information, right?
Put those two together, right?
Where I can Google something Ican verify and I can get to
information expeditiously.
I tend to look at it from whatwe don't have in that
definition.
(10:47):
And what immediately jumped outat me before even, You know
talking today was that asafrican american men What is
intentionally taken from us isthe ability to operate anything
in our own community, right?
The exact definition of the verbis exactly what is
systematically taken from us ona daily basis And i'll just
(11:08):
leave that there because that'sthe the factual side And then
when I look at the definition ofmale you talk about the
reproductive option, right?
and so in the face of The, the,the, the, the nigger problem,
the slave problem, the blackproblem.
Again, these are factual issuesthat the government of the
United States has addressed asways to get rid of people that
may be hostile to this state,right?
(11:29):
That are children of slaves.
Then you have to look at what'sbeen taken from us.
There has been our ability toreproduce.
So when you look up male, yousee that reproductive portion as
a part of the definition of it.
Right.
So to me, I, I focus on thethings that lie within the
definition that you all havementioned.
that are have been taken fromus.
(11:49):
You can talk black codes, youknow, are continued to be taken
from us.
You can talk mass incarceration.
You can talk planned parenthoodand you can talk a lot of other
things.
But that's what jumps out at mewhen we talk about the
definition of man, male.
I love, I grew up off of man ismind, right?
In my generation, I haven'tgotten that far to mind yet.
Right.
Because you have to have theability to exist and to
(12:09):
reproduce.
So that's kind of where I'mstuck at in a
Frank (12:12):
good way.
The family ties, theprescription for society is
manned as mine.
And this is the platform thatwe're using to make sure that we
Introducing this concept to theaudience who've never heard it
before.
So that way going forward forthem, they won't see a lot of
the negativity or the planning,as we may say, of forces that's
designed to hold us from havingour optimal.
(12:35):
Expression, and this will be apathway for them to see what
they can come to their bestconclusion.
The model, the model humans,
Tariq (12:41):
and I'm looking at it with great anticipation because
that word you say ties is themost important part, right?
You can have it that you want totie one in a tie.
It doesn't mean that loop isgoing to connect and both sides
come through.
So I agree with you a millionpercent that ties portion.
We've got to make sure that as apeople, we're up to the point
where that tie connects.
And those folks that we'rereaching out to, and we want to
(13:02):
understand man is mine at apoint where they can understand
it and their president hasn'tset them back so far.
That that doesn't hit where wewant it to, but I love it.
Yes, sir.
Faridah (13:11):
And joining the conversation last, but certainly
not least, is Ihsan
Ihsaan (13:16):
Fanusi.
Assalamu alaikum, everyone.
I think that to, to, to join atthe end.
of a discussion.
It sort of benefits you and itdisadvantages you in, in, in
kind of similar ways.
And I think it's sort of fittingfor the way that generations
work, right?
(13:36):
Because being at the end of ageneration, you, you got to
listen to and absorb all theknowledge from the people who
came before you, right?
My uncle, brother Tariq and mygrandfather, brother Qasim, you
know, so I get to benefit fromall that knowledge.
And even while I'm listening,you know, I'm thinking, all
right, let me add this to myresponse.
Let me add that.
Because, you know, you naturallybenefit from picking that up.
(14:00):
But then at the same time, youknow, you, you, you have to find
a way to make that original,find a way to make that yours.
And when my, when Brother Qasimtalked about the giants that he
looked up to, it really remindedme of the, the phrase, you know
essentially you're, we'restanding on the shoulders of
(14:21):
giants, and that's the onlyreason that.
we were able to reach so high.
And I think that that really isa, another part of the
definition of man.
When we, we think about it, Ithink everybody really touched
on this, but I think just todefine it further is that, you
know, part of being a man isbeing a role model, you know,
and leaving a legacy for thenext generation or for people
(14:44):
for to follow, right.
So part of being a man or partof being a leader is showing
people how to do something,showing people.
what it is how they should act,you know, by leading by example,
essentially.
And so I think that this tiesinto all of the things that that
brother Cosm was talking aboutwith having good character,
(15:05):
right?
The only real way to transmitthat good character is to live
it.
Right?
You can talk about goodcharacter all you want, but
unless it's something that's inyour actions, it's not going to
be something that's reallythat's really embraced.
And then likewise, as brotherTariq was talking about, about
(15:26):
establishing your own things,you know, operating your own
communities, establishingbusiness, establishing life
within the community.
Again, all of this has to bedone in a way where it's,
replicable for futuregenerations.
So part of being a man, I think,is creating that legacy.
And that's something that Ithink a lot of people look up to
(15:47):
when they're trying to establishthemselves as their own man.
Frank (15:51):
Absolutely.
Wonderful, wonderful response.
Wonderful response, brotherIssan.
Yes.
Faridah (15:55):
So I would just like to jump in there and ask the
question and perhaps brotherQasim, you might address this
because I think it's in responseto something that Tariq brought
up.
And as well as, and that Ihsanpicked up on.
And this idea of Tariq mentionedwhat the, the forces that have
existed that have served as, asbarriers for men establishing
(16:18):
and exerting that power.
That vigor and vitality in thecommunity.
And I know that you came throughthe experience of the nation of
Islam under the leadership ofthe Honorable Elijah Muhammad.
And my understanding of it isthat there was a very specific
program that was in place at amindset that said that the
responsibility of the men whowere you know, picking
(16:40):
themselves up from the mud anddusting themselves off.
Once they had accepted thatresponsibility, it was also
their responsibility to go backout and begin fishing.
And so if you could speak a bitto the rationale and the logic
behind that movement thataddressed some of those things
that Tarek was speaking about interms of the barriers that have
existed in the life of ourpeople, particularly when it
(17:03):
comes to manhood.
Quasim (17:04):
I'm going to do a little dodging and fainting here.
If that's okay I was talking,what's that about you and me,
Mayfield?
I love the way Mayfield canfight a fight and he never gets
hit
Faridah (17:15):
Mayweather
Quasim (17:18):
Yes, well for me and this is i'm sure to a degree of
function just of age Even thoughI still think i'm 34, but I
ain't I always have to stretchout.
I'm looking at a much longertime span, certainly than the
(17:42):
civil rights movement, as wecall it.
Certainly than my life.
And that's why I love the titleof the autobiography of Booker
T.
Washington, Up From Slavery.
Ihsaan (17:56):
Yes.
Quasim (17:57):
My context is we are slave.
We, we, we were.
A slave people.
He was brought here to beslaved, enslaved, however you
put it.
And our journey is coming upfrom there.
And to think back to theHonorable Elijah Muhammad and
the fruit of Islam.
And I always felt, and I thinkthe historians will bear this
(18:20):
out, that the Honorable ElijahMuhammad was emphasizing a
aspect of the up from slaverytrail, chill.
The Frederick Douglass tale ofhow we build ourselves from that
which is demeaned to that whichis valuable.
(18:42):
But that was kind of sidetrackedunder the integrationist push of
the civil rights movement, theNAACP, the Southern Christian
Leadership Conference.
Student Nonviolent CoordinatingCommittee, et cetera, were
pushing between 1954 and 1965.
The emphasis was getting in andnot so much emphasis on building
(19:06):
up ourselves, building up ourmanhood, protecting our women.
That emphasis came mainly fromthe Nation of Islam, but it
spread through everybody throughthe United States.
Particularly in the 60s, theMuhammad Speaks newspaper, which
was the voice of this movement.
So so I would say that thatspirit of fishing, that spirit
(19:30):
of trying to unite, of buildinga black united front, of having
all men stand up, that that wasa spirit that went long before
the honor of Elijah Muhammad anda spirit that is still strong
today.
But of course, as, as, as Tariqmentioned, it is under threat.
We always.
(19:50):
I hope that at least a littlebit spoke to your point.
Frank (19:54):
Yes.
And I think that's a wonderfullittle level of information to
contextualize what the sixtiesreally was and how it helped
impact us and progress us goingforward.
Oftentimes, as we look at.
It has history.
We tend to take things out ofthe proper context.
We want, we like to isolatethings and look at that as the
whole picture and fail to seehow all of these connectivities,
(20:16):
the connectivities of all theseevents actually help push us
forward in this whole process.
So in this, in this podcast,what we would like to do is we
would like to just stress theemphasis that.
You know, the word manage theword man is in the word manage
to be able to handle levels ofresponsibility.
(20:37):
We want to ensure that ouraudience understands that when
we speak of man and manhood,we're speaking of the ideal man.
We're speaking of the man thatis in his greatest picture and
his most fulfilling picture andhow we make our way.
And make pathways, createpathways for us to get to that
picture of manhood, becauseultimately in that position, it
(21:00):
gives life to every other aspectof the community and it builds
community life.
And it's what connects theseties, create these ties for us
to actually build our life.
Now there's, you know, in thewomb, there are restrictions in
the womb.
There are challenges in the wombthat prevent us from being able
to stretch ourselves out as achild.
So those nine months, we areconfined to a certain posture, a
(21:21):
certain position, and we'retrying to wrangle for freedom.
We're trying to wrangle forbetter, you know, better
expression.
But the womb itself is designingus to prepare for what the next
steps are.
So we don't want to put too muchemphasis on what has restricted
us.
In our movement, but more orless look at it as ways that it
helped develop us to be able tohandle the next level of
(21:44):
responsibility in our lifetime.
So brother is saying if youcould possibly in your studies
as a young man and having thatas a history for you, you know,
what does that look like as faras.
Your grandfather, brother Kasimand his intra interactions in
that sixties and that wranglingin the sixties of trying to have
our best life and now in the twothousands, you know, what does
(22:06):
that look like for you and yourgeneration
Ihsaan (22:09):
for me?
I see the past and I see historyas it's obviously a way to
provide us, you know anunderstanding of what has
worked, what hasn't worked.
And I think that's what peopleoften take away from history,
but I think something that isless.
(22:29):
acknowledged is the fact thathistory can also give you a
sense of identity, right?
It can also give you a, adirection, you know, apart from,
you know, the practical, thisworked, this didn't.
It also shows you, I think it'ssomething that It gives you
something to connect with and Ithink a lot of people,
(22:50):
especially in our generation, inmy generation have been missing,
right?
Whether it's from not knowingwhere your family is from, not
knowing or not having strongmale role models to grow up
with.
It leaves you very susceptibleto the direction of other
forces, right?
(23:11):
I think there's a reason why alot of young men look up to
their fathers or to theirgrandfathers, right?
Or to their uncles, you know,because that lineage is a source
of identity.
Like it's in your DNA.
Yes.
You know, you naturally want tofollow the, the people who came
before you, you know, yourforefathers.
And so I think a pro an issue orsomething that we have to face
(23:34):
in our generation is how do wecontest with not having those
role models available as a lotof people don't.
You know, and I think that forme personally, you know, having
my grandfather in my life and myfather in my life, people who
have worked very hard, verydiligently in order to establish
(23:56):
things within the community ithas allowed me to have, I don't
think pride is the right word,but I think a sense of knowledge
of what I'm trying to do.
Who, who am I?
You know, and I think that a lotof people who don't have that,
who don't have those people intheir lives, you know, they
could follow their friends, youknow, or their peers who might
(24:20):
be just as lost as them.
Right.
And I think, as a, as a youngerperson, you're always sort of In
that stage of trying todetermine exactly who you are,
because you know, you're notgoing to be exactly like your
parents or your grandparents,but with that, with that link
being cut off, being severed,right?
(24:40):
As Brother Qasim was talkingabout, you know, as a people, we
were brought here andintentionally severed from All
of our heritage, our history inAfrica, and that's why the
pioneers had to establishsomething.
They had to establish their ownculture, their own, you know,
support structures, family,their own values.
(25:02):
And so in order to take thatand, and sort of build upon it,
I think that We'll have to makea, a, a strong, we'll have to
more strongly value history andvalue historical figures and
value the people who came beforeus, who tried to make those
(25:23):
institutions strong.
Frank (25:25):
So as men, I am named after my father.
And as you brother said before,you know, especially about the
costume and also Tariq and youtwo are saying, you know, I, I
looked up to my father and myfather was, he was a giant to
me.
He had four other brothers.
So, and these guys were all likevery muscular, very strong, like
(25:45):
strapping men.
They, and I don't like to usethis term, but I'm gonna use it
anyway.
Like often people would say he'sa man's man.
Like they were those type ofmen, my grandfather, his uncle,
they were those types of men.
So we.
We knew my generation knew thestandard was for us to be seen
as men.
And we also worked verydiligently to get their approval
(26:09):
because once we got theirapproval, we knew we would have
arrived.
We didn't need the world'sapproval.
We just needed their approval.
So these are the, these are theties.
These are the family ties thatwe have that.
Somehow another had beenweakened and somehow another had
been severed as brother Tariqhas said, as, as absolutely have
(26:29):
been severed.
So we want to use this platformto try to bring those ties back
together.
We want to be able to, to tiethem back together and find ways
and pathways.
So we realized that ultimatelyit began at home.
It began with the immediatefamily before the world could
see us as men.
We needed to be men in our ownhomes, men, meaning leaders.
(26:51):
We need to have leadership andbasically the state of manhood
in the world is basicallytalking about the state of
leadership, you know,comprehensively is leadership,
bad leadership.
So how do we get ourself back toleadership?
So I want to go to brothercostume for a second and just
kind of get his feelings on, onhow that looked for him and how
he thinks that we can actually.
(27:12):
Bring those ties back together.
Quasim (27:14):
Now, all I want to do is give, as the church folk used to
say, a hearty amen.
You put your finger on it.
When you said we were lookingfor was our father's approval
and approval of the other men,and we didn't really give a
(27:35):
tinkers, you know, what about.
Oh, the folk.
That's right.
You named it.
You named it.
And I'm, I'm going to claim it.
Yes, sir.
Frank (27:43):
Yes, sir.
So, so I want to, I'm sorry.
Go ahead.
I,
Faridah (27:48):
I, I just I just have a question on, on that point.
And it's something that Tariqbrought up earlier.
And I don't know if, if youknow, you'd like to, if you have
ideas about this Tariq anddefinitely wanting to hear your
your your, your position on thisdaddy.
And, and of course, Ihsan, andthen maybe even and it has to do
with the ties and reachingpeople.
(28:09):
You know, there was a quote, avery well known quote from
Frederick Douglass that says,and I'm paraphrasing here, but
it's, it's basically somethingabout being easier to, to build
strong children than to, tobuild up broken men, you know?
And so the idea being that ourstrongest position are the, the,
the, best way to reach andreform the idea of manhood and,
(28:34):
and excellence in humanity wouldbe to start with the boys.
But, but then that leaves so I,I just wanted to get you guys,
all of you, your sense of yourunderstanding of establishing or
reestablishing those familyties, where priorities might be,
or even how we might reach thosewho seem to be.
Out of reach.
(28:55):
Have you given any thought tothat?
And any one of you can takethat.
Tariq (28:59):
You want to go?
I was saying, I'll follow you.
I just
Quasim (29:03):
want to say this for the current moment.
I think brother Frank and I weretalking about another historical
moment in a particular aspect orparticular location within the
African American community.
I think Fardy, you wanted to setus up to talk about another
(29:25):
aspect, and I didn't address it.
You and Tariq, I think, aretalking about somebody else,
another part of our community,another issue with our
community.
And the Honorable ElijahMuhammad was reaching,
particularly in the 50s, afterMinister Malcolm became the The
spokesperson and the energycenter for that movement was
(29:48):
reaching out to the folks whoweren't being reached, I think,
by the phenomenon that BrotherFrank and I were talking about
the people who were not gettingthat kind of strong message.
You know, home situation.
And so the FOI was known forgoing out to folks everywhere.
Those who were doing well, andthose who were not doing well,
(30:09):
particularly those were notdoing well and inviting them to
another picture.
And today and this is what Iwanted to come to.
I think people who are soimportant today are the people
who are taking on, because we'vegot, we've got a, we've got a
situation for whatever A largerand larger number of young men
(30:33):
are not in contact with the kindof role models to help them
construct constructive lives.
And I think that that's whatTariq was speaking of.
And so people like Tariq, and Idon't think he's gone into where
his work is, but he does workwhere he's, where he is going
into those without the model andtrying to do something.
(30:53):
I'll let him say what it
Tariq (30:54):
is
Quasim (30:54):
that
Tariq (30:54):
he's doing.
But it's, thank you, daddy.
I, I, I think the, I think the Ithink you start with, and you
know, I try to work back in myhead, right?
I'm so used to know you all, butyou start with where we started
with.
Right.
And, and I think the biggestthing right now, and as San has
pointed to it very, very, very,very eloquently is the legacy
and legacy is not just somethingto look at and say, wow, that
(31:16):
was great.
I think as San pointed at legacyis leaving something to work
with, right?
So as a son, I have something towork with.
And I think that the mostimportant place to start when
we're talking about this is whatare you leaving the next
generation to work with?
So my father, who happens to besitting here, but even if he
weren't, he, he, he gave mebooks, intelligence,
(31:37):
information, a lot, a lot ofinformation, a very little
amount of opinion, right?
And I'm very appreciative ofthat because it left me when I
was then to take the reins andto move forward.
I was then left with a lot ofinformation and a very strong
opinion.
And that's a very great thing.
The combination to have, right?
So when you start with the quotethat Frederick Douglass made,
you've got to start there andyou've got to look at a problem
(31:59):
in order to make that tie, orlike my father's mentioning,
like the nation of Islam did inorder to reach that portion of
the society, which I may say,when you're talking black males,
we're talking about a majority.
So you may want to shift thelanguage a little bit to
understand that if we're talkingabout sustenance, viability, and
long term sustainability.
(32:20):
The conversation of those thatthe nation was reaching should
be the bigger conversation orthe high beams, not the low
beams, because this panel is aminority when it comes to black
males today, that section is themajority.
Even if the numbers are skim.
So when you hear a statement bythe illustrious Frederick
Douglass, who was working withwhat he had at the time, right?
That says it's easy to buildstrong children than broken men.
(32:43):
You have to understand the hintsof white supremacy that are even
in that, that come from theeducational institutions that
even our brother Frederickattended, right?
And you have to understand thatthat is the moment for me, that
the break that you will not beable to ever tie again, happens
the moment you take what is andsay that it's done, then you
(33:04):
have accepted.
The throwing away of an entiregeneration of people almost and
therefore for me you started ata place where a victory is is
not Just unlikely a victory isimpossible.
Now.
Let's redraw this landscapewhich What you're hoping and
it's almost comedic to a setyou're hoping that a new
(33:26):
generation of boys Can look atyou erasing a generation of men
and somehow, even as we've sathere and said each male on this
panel has said that the fatherthat came before them was in
some way the conduit for whichthey found the strength to live
in this generation of oppressionand attacks.
(33:47):
We think that that generationwill somehow majestically,
magically figure out how to bestrong men in society simply
because we pay attention tothem.
While we're throwing theirfathers away.
Now that's a, that's a jump.
Some may say, but it's not.
So when we say that a, a, a, a,that a portion of the society is
broken, your mistake is okay.
(34:10):
Okay.
Well, as men, any other societyhas first put where they are and
move from there.
When you listen to a statementof that nature, you have to
understand what it's saying.
It's saying, this is where weare.
We can't win.
So let's skip two generationsand go to the six or seven year
olds and hope that the minorityof men can dismiss the majority
(34:35):
of men and convince thesechildren that they can be men,
even though their parentscouldn't be.
That may seem like a lot tounpack, but all it's doing is
going down the actual road wejust laid out there.
So I think what we've got tostart with is to say, okay,
someone's broken.
At what point do you throw awaysomething of yours that's
(34:56):
broken?
And at what point does thatvalue play into it?
So if you've got an old watch,Frank, from your grandfather,
and that watch no longer ticks,are you tossing it in the
garage, in the garbage?
I would, I would say youprobably aren't, right?
So let's move from a watch thathas some level of value to a
person, a human being now,right?
So to say a human being isbroken to the point of throwing
(35:17):
them away and now refocusing ona different piece of equipment
and to expect you to be viewedby those that oppress you as
men, Since that's the word we'restarting with is not in the
definition of men that we'vetalked about.
He man worked in Muhammad restin peace, man is mine.
That's failing 1 million%.
(35:37):
So I don't think we can startfrom there because to me, that's
an admittance that we are notmen.
We don't have a mind that canfight what's been done to us.
In fact, we're going to grab thewhite flag, put it in the ground
and listen to what we're sayingas I close this.
The men that we're talking aboutbeing broken are generally the
men that had no hand.
In them being broken, there wasno voluntary.
(35:59):
They grew into super predatorystatus.
They grew into the reality andthe society that we, as men,
some of us, not you were saying,but some of us.
Were were there.
Some of us weren't right.
These are the ones we're talkingabout throwing away.
We're talking about judges thatright now are sitting in jail
for 40 years for admittedlytaking hundreds of Young boys
and putting them in jail whenthey did nothing to belong in
(36:21):
jail We're talking about aau andbvu coaches by the thousands
that have admittedly raped youngboys and that have done things
to them that Causes them toreach levels of mental insanity
that they can't come back fromright?
That's what we're saying.
They can't come back from parkwe're talking about Children and
then to dare think that forpeople to have this outlook, I'm
(36:41):
going to give you my Childrenand hope.
That you can then take thesechildren and have some level of
care for them to get themsomewhere else I think it's a
very very shaky foundation tostart on so if we start and and
that's I think the magic thatKasim Abdul Tawwab gave me he
gave me the information sonobody can take me and say well
young man You don't understandabsolutely not I do understand,
(37:05):
right?
And the ability to look at ittoday, which I hope is saying
can take me and make me looklike pittance with the way he's
able to take this to the nextlevel, right?
I have to say that we got toadjust that starting point.
Because the ground part, whichmy father was referencing, I'm
on the ground with the majority.
I see the losses in there.
They're stacking so quickly thatif you're looking from that
(37:27):
aspect, right?
Then the conversation wouldchange.
So I think that to change thatbar, we would have to say, well,
what is broken mean, right?
At what point do we throw awaywhat's broken?
And at what point do we thinkthat we can throw away the
parent and then create asustainable man, right?
Is a good place to start.
Frank (37:46):
Yes.
And those are very poignant andvery descriptive of our
situation currently in oursociety, but that type of
thinking and that type of actionin the, in the community.
So we were sensitized by Imam WDMuhammad with the term man is
mine, but there's another partof that too.
The other part of that is thatthe woman is the womb.
(38:09):
The womb of mine.
She is the womb for man's mind.
So she is the environment forman to have his beginnings, for
him to understand what thesensitivity is for him to manage
all of life.
So he can't manage it byhimself.
So from that perspective, we gointo family life, the man, the
woman coming together, married,having children.
(38:31):
This is when society starts.
This is the beginning of, ofsociety in that step.
So as we look forward.
We know that looking back, I'msorry, that that has been
compromised.
Society itself has compromisedthat at every turn to try to
separate the man from the woman,from the, from the man, from the
womb of his own development, hisengagement of the world, to be
(38:54):
able to provide resources forhis family.
That has been the scheme fromthe beginning.
So as we identify the scheme andunderstand that we now have a
remedy for the scheme, how do wenow process going forward?
To be able to reconnect theseties, these ties, these sacred
ties that have been severed, howdo we reconnect them?
So yes, Frederick Douglasson waslooking at a situation and
(39:15):
identified a situation.
That is absolutely true, butit's not absolute.
So we've come and we use the manis mine as the prism to look at
how Frederick Douglass looked atthings.
And now we're now sensitized togo forward and realize we need
to reconnect these these ties.
So I wanted to start with you,brother Tariq, and just ask you
really quickly since you are amarried father, husband and have
(39:38):
children yourself, what was yourperspective going forward being
married and wanting to havechildren?
And now that you do havechildren, you know, what
adjustments did you make for theidea that you wanted to have to
continue this reconnecting ofthe, of the ties that were
created from your father andfrom his father and you going
forward for your Children.
Tariq (39:59):
Yeah, I think that it was just picking up where I talked
earlier, it was, you know, itwas always very simple to pass
down what you were given, youknow and then I had the benefit,
which I don't want to takelightly of having a A father
there to reach out into andreinforce, you know every, every
aspect of it.
I mean, if your child comes toyou with a question, right, you
(40:20):
already have the answer that yougot from your father, you know,
seven times out of 10.
And if it's that old elephantsong, you know, a million and
one questions that you didn'task your father, I have the
benefit of being able to pick upthe phone and, you know, and to
call and to call my father.
I think with my sons, a bit of ashift for me was I grew up in
the same musical and socialareas, my sons.
So though, though, you know, theties, there was, there's some
(40:44):
challenges because the, the,the, the reality in which I
lived is not the reality inwhich my children live.
So for me, my father was a giantand it was unchallenged.
And, and even now it'sunchallenged because it's in my
mind for my children.
Yeah, I may be a giant, but theycan Google something.
I said, while I'm saying it andquickly tell me, you know what,
daddy, I don't, I don't thinkthat's right.
So I'm a different type ofgiant, you know, I found out 20
(41:06):
years later that my fathermight've said it was 10 people
when it was nine, right?
At that point, you can't changethat status.
So I have a, I think there's,there's a bit more of a
difficulty for me because mychildren will challenge more of
what I passed down, right?
Because the ties aren't the tiesanymore.
And that's the reality of what,of what you're implying with
Frederick Douglass.
(41:26):
The, the problem with living ata different generation is it, it
couldn't no longer be right.
So what was.
Is no longer is.
So what you're passing down canno longer be correct.
Right.
And not by right of your parentbeing incorrect.
For example, if you grew up offof, off of NAACP being cast in a
positive light, right, you mighthave a much more difficult time
(41:48):
passing that positivity of theNAACP down to your children who
can Google the original foundersand see that forward businessmen
you know, three were Europeanright wing conservatives.
And these were the folks thatpushed us towards integration,
right?
So I'm going to have a threehour conversation where my
father was only 10 minutes.
He just told me and we kept itmoving.
I may try to pass down thegiants at NAACP and my child
say, Hey, hold on a second,daddy.
(42:09):
Well, that doesn't make anysense.
Look where we are now and lookat what they did.
Why, why did this happen?
So the ties are still therebecause I have my father there.
I'm there and they're there.
I think there's just somechanges and passing it down,
right?
Because things have changed andthen there's some benefits in
passing it down.
Because you're of the samesocial and musical era.
So, I could play a rap song fromTupac called Changes to my
(42:31):
children and still teach themthrough that rap song, and their
attention is there because theystill see Tupac as a social
giant.
My father might have played me arap a song from Nat King Cole,
and I'm like, yeah, I, you know,half of the song, my father's
saying, do you see what justhappened?
There's nobody singing.
He's talking about a musicalarrangement.
And no, I don't see it at thetime, right?
Cause I'm listening to theTupac, right?
So it was much harder for myfather to get that to me.
(42:52):
If any of that makes sense.
Yes, I understand.
I
Frank (42:55):
want to throw this to Issan really quickly.
So Issan is recently a newlywedand congratulations and welcome
to the club.
You, you definitely add value tothat, to that club of married
men.
And it's a wonderful club.
So as you and your beautifulwife are looking forward to
establishing your, your life as,as a married couple, and
(43:15):
ultimately, as God willing, youguys will start having children,
you know, what is the, what isyour expectation that you think
would be to provide anenvironment for those children
to be able to maintain thoseties and for you to actually
strengthen the ties with yourchildren to ensure that you're
continuing the legacy of thosewho came before you?
Ihsaan (43:35):
That's a great question, Brother Frank.
I think.
Before I answer that, I, Ithought of something while
Brother Tariq was talkingbefore, and It reminds me of,
there's this movie that came outa long time ago, or at least for
me it was a long time ago, but Idon't remember the name of it,
(43:56):
but it had Morgan Freeman asthe, the star and he was going
into a school, you know, it waslike an inner city school and
all of the, you know, the, the,They tried to make, they made
the school like as bad aspossible, right?
Like people were going throughthe halls, you know, lean on me,
Frank (44:13):
lean on me.
It was lean on me.
Ihsaan (44:14):
Yes.
So this is, this is a famousmovie and I actually always did
not really like them.
But the reason why is because,you know, he comes into the
school, he's all, you know, hardwith the discipline.
He's like.
The first thing he does is hesays, like, he just writes like
30 or like 100 students on alist.
(44:35):
And he's like, all these guysare out of here.
They're all expelled.
Right.
And some of them are like, wait,I didn't even, I didn't sell
drugs.
I didn't do this.
He's like, nope, you're gone.
Right.
So his approach was basicallylike anybody who is, is not
going to contribute.
We're just getting them out ofhere.
Yes.
We'll deal with the rest ofthose people are just unsavable.
They're unsavable.
(44:56):
And so.
That's why I always kind of hada mixed, a mixed interpretation
of that movie, because I thinkit goes back to what Brother
Tariq was saying in that there'sthis approach sometimes, and it
might be more It might be moreof the older generation which
thinks this way, that we justsort of throw out all the
undesirables, you know, and say,they're not, they're not going,
(45:19):
they're, they're done.
We can't save them.
And I think that, you know,there has to be a little bit
more nuance, right?
When we talk about how, youknow, You know, what people can
be saved ultimately, you know,as Muslims, we believe that it's
with God, right?
The, the, the determination ofwho will be saved and who won't
be saved.
(45:40):
So we do have to try arehabilitative approach in
certain, certain areas, but thenyou also have to balance that
with, you know providing for thepeople who really are striving
and doing what they're supposedto and you know, trying to
establish community themselves.
Thanks, folks.
So there is a balance there, butyeah, that just reminded me of
(46:02):
that movie and my thoughts onthat movie But to answer your
question about how how do I planto when I do become a father
establishing?
Something a legacy for mychildren.
I think that something that thefirst thing that comes to my
mind is Incline my childrentowards what's right.
(46:27):
Because I think that when youhave a love of the good things
of things, which are good, thatwill really inform your
decisions throughout your life.
So even if at a certain point,right, it comes to the, you come
to the reality that you can'tcontrol your children, right?
Once they get to whatever theage is of.
Being their own men or their ownwomen.
(46:48):
You're not going to be able tocontrol them.
So you're, you're very limitedactually in how you can shape
them.
But I think something that youreally do have a good amount of
control over is Showing themwhat is good and making them
like certain things, which aregood, right?
Because when children come out,you know, they really they're
really kind of like a blankslate in a lot of ways Like
(47:10):
they're interested in whateveryou're interested in, right?
Like if your father took you tofootball games and you're just
gonna like football, right?
Because you know, your dad wasall excited to see whatever team
he was supporting So you mightgrow up supporting that same
team, right?
You can really have a biginfluence in what your parents
love So if you're, it goes againback to being a role model and
(47:31):
showing by action, but if youare trying to influence your
child, I feel like telling themright and wrong is, is part of
it, of course.
And you have to do that to keepthem safe and to, to, to, to
allow them to grow.
But also.
Make exciting, make, fill themwith love, with things, with
(47:51):
that, that are good, right?
And if you can do that, then Ifeel like they will naturally
figure the rest of things out.
Frank (47:59):
The praises for God, I tell you that and how you just
described that was the samethinking that I had when I was
married, became married to mywife and we were having a child
and my Struggle to determinewhat would be best for my
Children and I felt and Ithought and I believed it that I
would have to put them aroundthings that are best things that
(48:20):
are good and ultimately thatwill be able to give them
discernment to determine thatthe things that were bad wasn't
good for them.
So if I gave them the good, theyunderstood that the bad things
is something that they don'twant to be a part of, or that
would be something that justkind of stirred the soul a
little bit.
As caution.
So and I think we need to havemore of that approach and more
(48:42):
of that determination for ourfamilies going forward.
These conversations for allfamily members to determine.
We don't have to change theworld.
We can control what's in our ownhomes.
And if we have a little bit moreof a direct involvement with
that and the more concerted andspecific involvement, I think
ultimately the world changesbecause the world is really just
a reflection of what's going onin the home.
(49:03):
So but I really appreciate thosecomments that you gave.
Faridah (49:06):
So if I could just interject here before we have
some closing words from BrotherQasim, Abdul Tawwab and Tariq
and Ihsan, as we wrap up thisepisode, I would like to invite
all three of you back.
We have limited time for eachepisode, but I would like to
invite all three of you back,particularly with respect to the
(49:28):
question of ties and even goingback to the question of the
Frederick Douglass quote.
And the reason that I broughtthat quote up, and I still think
it's important and it was aninsightful, is that.
I don't necessarily look at thatquotation as an invitation to
discard.
I look at that quote as aninvitation to take what's
referred to in the Qur'an, thescripture of the Muslims, as the
(49:51):
aqaba.
It's the steep path, thedifficult road, which begins in
the Qur'an with the invitationto liberate the slave.
And so if you and this was theparticular question that I had
posed both to Brother Qasim as aformer member of the Nation of
Islam who has intimate knowledgeof that experience, and also
that he was posing, you know,leaving a question with his son,
(50:14):
my brother Tarek, who is doingvery important work on the
ground in Jackson, Mississippi,and has had this sensitivity his
entire life.
It is easier to build a strong,strong men when you start with
them as children.
But the, what the, the quotefinishes and what it says is
it's more difficult or it'seasier than, which just means
that the other enterprise.
(50:36):
is a challenging one.
But men are the ones who step upto the challenge.
Believers are the ones who saythe road is difficult, but I'm
going to embrace it becausethat's the road that gets the
most reward both in this lifeand the next.
So I would like us to return, ifyou all are willing to return as
our guests, to really you know,discuss that in more depth,
(50:57):
because I think it's important.
And so if you would, I don'tknow if Frank has something to
share before we have each of youmake a closing comment.
No,
Frank (51:05):
no, the floor
Faridah (51:06):
is there.
And please, in your closingcomment, please let us know if
you will accept our invitation.
Quasim (51:11):
So you're telling me I'm supposed to go first?
I'm here, so I will.
First of all, I would be mostpleased at any time to be with
these excellent men and alsowith the excellent co host
Farida Abdul Zawah Brown.
And I would just say that Iwill, you know, give a little
historical perspective becausethere's not a lot for me to say.
(51:32):
The men facing the future arehere.
And I will think.
My creation and the creator ofthe heavens and the earth that I
can see these these these menwho are doing so much And who
can approach problems that Ican't even begin to sort out and
(51:54):
just say I had something to dowith it by doing that, which my
father said me to do it.
So yeah, I'll be, I'll bedelighted to come back if that
if that invitation is accepted.
Yes, sir.
Faridah (52:06):
All right.
Well, Ehsan, if we can have youanswer the question and let us
know if you'll be willing tojoin us.
Ihsaan (52:12):
Yeah, I would, I would absolutely like to come back.
I mean, we had such a greatdiscussion already in this short
amount of time.
And so, there's so much morethat I'd love to talk about and
just listen and hear the otherperspectives.
So I'm definitely, I definitelywant to come back.
I feel like I've already learnedso much just in this
(52:32):
conversation.
So yeah, I would definitelyaccept.
Faridah (52:37):
Wonderful.
Thank you so much.
Ihsaan (52:40):
All
Tariq (52:40):
right.
Faridah (52:40):
And Tariq.
Tariq (52:41):
So, very quickly, I'll definitely accept it.
I'd be more than happy to comeback and speak about it.
It's a lot of important factsthat have been picked up here
that we need to continue to talkabout.
The most importantly when wemake comments about who's doing
the right thing and who's doingthe wrong thing the continued
conversation is are they or arethey not?
And I'll leave that there tillnext time.
Faridah (52:59):
All right.
Well, that was our those wereour guests.
We are grateful to you forjoining us as the first guest,
the inaugural guest, if youwill, on the podcast, Family
Ties, The Prescription forSociety.
Frank (53:12):
So as we will close, we would say the praise is always
for God, always.
And Farida, we have definitelymoved one step closer to
Destination Excellence.
Faridah (53:23):
Until next time, let us remain conscious of our creator
of the sacred relationship ofparent and child, and of the
family ties that bind us.
Subscribe to the podcast andcome back next time for a new
episode of The Family Ties
Frank (53:38):
from Frank Abdul Shaheed
Faridah (53:41):
and Farida Abdul
Frank (53:45):
Peace.
Peace be upon, be upon
Faridah (53:49):
the family,
the family.
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