October 16, 2024 • 56 mins
The Family Ties: Understanding Leadership, Faith, and Resilience in Society
In this enlightening episode, co-hosts Frank Abdul Shaheed &
Faridah Abdul-Tawwab Brown explore essential themes surrounding family dynamics, leadership, faith, and resilience. They discuss recent personal milestones and the impact of seasonal changes, emphasizing the balanced roles of men and women inspired by Imam WD Muhammad's teachings. The episode delves into the inherent strength of women, the crucial role of fatherhood, and lessons from historical figures like Frederick Douglass on nurturing children's innocence and the support for orphans. By invoking religious scriptures, the show stresses the significance of a hopeful outlook, education, and community support in overcoming life's challenges. It highlights the importance of discipline, logical thinking, love, and spirituality in leading a meaningful life. Ultimately, the conversation underscores the necessity of a moral compass guided by divine principles to achieve personal and societal excellence.
00:00 Welcome to The Family Ties
00:37 Catching Up with Co-Hosts
01:19 The Importance of Family Celebrations
03:18 The Role of Stress in Growth
04:26 Exploring Manhood and Leadership
06:44 The Ethical Army and Hopeful Cadence
07:30 The Noble Pairs: Men and Women
11:37 Frederick Douglass and Building Children
18:38 Gratitude and Perspective in Adversity
25:46 Hope and Faith in Scriptures
27:40 Hopeful Disposition and Accountability
29:08 Education and Legacy
30:09 Fatherhood and Generational Impact
31:56 Charity and Responsibility
38:36 Moral Leadership and Best Life
40:49 Authority and Discipline
49:30 Reflections on Family and Guidance
54:51 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
This podcast is about family life as a means to address current problems in American society. A scripture based African American perspective.
Welcome to The Family Ties, a Prescription for Society.
Through this experience we invite you to join us in an exploration of the concept of family ties as a prescription for society.
YOUR HOSTS: Frank Abdul Shaheed &
Faridah Abdul-Tawwab Brown
This episode was edited by Darryl D Anderson of AMG - Ambassador Media Group visit https://www.ambassador-mediagroup.com/
__________________________________
Music Credit
Back Home by Ghostrifter Official | https://soundcloud.com/ghostrifter-official
Music promoted by https://www.free-stock-music.com
Creative Commons / Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International (CC BY-SA 4.0)
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/
Copyright 2024
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Frank (00:16):
Peace be upon the family, as we welcome you to another
experience of The Family Ties, aprescription for society.
I am your co host, Frank AbdulShahid.
Faridah (00:27):
And I am your co host, Farida Abdul Tawab Brown.
Before we get started, don'tforget to subscribe so you can
stay up to date and get all thelatest episodes.
Frank (00:37):
Welcome back Farida.
Welcome back to another episodeof The The family ties, the
prescription for society.
How has your your week, yourlast few weeks have been for
you, for your family?
Faridah (00:50):
Uh, They have been gloriously busy.
So, you know, I think we've beenvery busy doing a lot.
Adjusting to change just as theseasons, you know, just as we're
reflecting a lot of what we seein the natural world around us.
And so, yeah, just enjoying thattime.
And it's a pleasure to be backhere with you and our listening
(01:14):
audience.
How, how have the past few weeksbeen going for you and your
family?
Frank (01:18):
We've been, been very well.
Yes.
Had a situation of celebratingone of my niece's birthdays and
I have Quite a lot of nephews, Ihave 17 nephews actually, but I
only have five nieces.
So the nieces are very, veryspecial, especially to me.
So whenever there's somethingfor the niece.
(01:39):
Needs any attention or anything.
I'm always trying to make it mypoint to be there.
So she had her 25th birthday andwe all went and visited my niece
and made it such a wonderfulmemory for her.
And she's grown to be such ayoung, wonderful young lady and
just established herself in theworld.
So, but over the last few weeks,you know, just celebrating the,
the change in the seasons, thechanges in the colors, the
(02:01):
changes in the weather.
So you know, this is a mercy, soeverything's been very well.
Thank you.
Faridah (02:07):
Wow.
It is a mercy.
You know, I think of you said25th birthday, you know, that
emphasis on five, five beingsuch a seminal number for
humanity.
You know, our five senses, ourfive fingers on each hand, five
toes.
five openings on the face, youknow, the two eyes, the two
nostrils and the mouth.
(02:27):
So, you know, listening to youshare how she is making her way
in the world, awakening to herpurpose, establishing herself as
an adult is such a hearteningthing to hear.
And especially as you consideryour role as an uncle, as a, a
male providing male leadershipand attention that is necessary
in the construction of familylife.
(02:48):
You know, it's, it's a, it's awonderful thing.
So I am pleased to hear that.
And it's always wonderful whenwe are able to share the forward
progress.
Of our, of our families.
Frank (03:00):
Yes, and she's such a very dynamic personality in our
family.
You know, she makes it knownthat she's on the scene and she
requires quite a bit from heruncle.
And I just want to say for therecord that her uncle does not
mind the requirement that sheputs on me.
Faridah (03:14):
Well, thank you, Uncle.
I think that is the requirementof leadership.
I think, you know, that that'skind of a really nice segue into
a very weighty topic.
Because you're, you're talkingabout the.
the stress, you know, I, myhusband is a nutritionist and a
personal trainer and, you know,he's also a triathlete.
So he's always doing, alwaysdoing a lot, quite a bit of
(03:37):
research into the scientificunderpinnings of, of exercise
and the physiology of the humanbody as it, especially as it's
pushed to its limits.
And he's always, you know, he'spreaching to me often the merits
of weightlifting and strength,strength training, as he calls
it.
And one of the principles isthat stress is what builds
(04:00):
muscle.
You have to put stress on themuscle.
It has to, to tear a little bitin order to form, reform, you
know, or heal more strongly.
And so when I think of youaccepting the responsibility,
the pressure, the stress ofproviding, whether it's
emotionally, spiritually,materially for your entire
family.
But in particular, this feminineinterest and the women in your,
(04:24):
your life and in your familyunits.
I, I see the picture of manhoodand we did just you know, if you
were with us, you know, in ourlistening audience, if you were
with us in a previous episode,we were pleased to host our
first guests on the program.
And that was a round table andintergenerational round table of
men who happened to be from myfamily.
(04:45):
So, you know, it was an honor, apleasure to, to be able to have
them join us.
But the conversation was aboutthe, the role, the position, the
understanding of who men are,what it means to be a man both
as a noun and to embody the maleessence and, and what man means
as a verb, the movement in theworld, and that acceptance of
(05:07):
stress.
to make one stronger.
Of course, when you think aboutmen, there are all kinds of ways
that women are strong.
But when you think of strengthand the embodiment of that in
the human, the balanced humanpicture, you, you tend to think
of the musculature of the man.
And so I just wanted to say thatthat was you know, it was of
great benefit to me to be a partof that conversation and to
(05:29):
listen to you as men discussingthe ideas.
Around manhood and what it meansand in particular, introducing
the language to our listeningaudience for those who are not
familiar with the idea that,that man means mind and all that
the mind can, can do togenerate, to secure interest, to
move things along, to provideleadership and protection in, in
(05:52):
the world is something thatreally came through, I think,
very clearly in thatconversation.
Frank (05:57):
That's a wonderful, wonderful conversation.
Faridah (05:59):
Yeah.
And so I do want to say we, wehad a very robust conversation
and I do want to say Godwilling, we'll have our guests
back on and we'll continue thatconversation.
And in the future, we hope tohave more conversations with
many more guests and perhapssome of you in our listening
audience.
may one day join us as we notonly discuss these ideas, but
(06:20):
really as we learn how to embodythem and help us to form a new
picture as we're moving forwardto establish a new type of
cadence, you know, a cadencecall of movement and rhythm for
our people in establishing thegood life, the family life, that
is a prescription for society.
So I did want to add, Oh, yeah,go ahead.
I don't say
Frank (06:40):
often addressed as the ethical army, but go ahead.
Yes.
Faridah (06:43):
Yeah, no, no, no.
Yes, the ethical army and thatis indeed, you know, Muslim,
Christian, Jewish people of allfaiths and backgrounds who want
to see excellence established inthe world who are who love
humanity.
who see our possibility and thepotential and are not willing to
give up in light of all thenegative messaging that is
(07:04):
coming to us today.
We're not willing to give thatup.
We are willing instead to lookto scripture for guidance and
have the hopefulness of thebeliever saying that we are
marching to a new cadence, toGod's cadence, responding to the
call of his servants to comealive to our purpose.
And so I believe that's This iswhat we're inviting our audience
(07:24):
to do, and this is what theseconversations are a part of.
They're not just talk.
It's part of a movement.
Frank (07:30):
Yes.
And as you addressed earlier,you know, we had this wonderful
roundtable of men, andultimately we'll have a
roundtable of women as well.
You know, we don't ever want toForget the, the, the pairing of
the two, they are natural matesof each other.
We introduced the term man ismine.
That was introduced to us byImam WD Muhammad, Wallace D
(07:51):
Muhammad.
And he also complimented thatwith that the woman is the womb
of the mind.
So as much as men need to havetheir authority and establish
their authority in the world,their authority is only
sensitized by her.
She is the room for hisauthority.
So he just can't go on his ownto decide he wants to do what he
(08:11):
wants to do.
He has to do it with thatsensitivity.
So as much as we want to makemen to be very muscular and
we're designed to be verymuscular, we're very, we're
designed to have, you know,large muscles to carry a heavy
burden physically.
But that same level ofmuscularity and strength is seen
in a woman, but it's seen.
(08:32):
It's inward, not necessarilyhourly, but very inwardly in her
responsibility and the thingsthat she must carry has a half
that have to have a level ofstrength as well, just to even
have a baby, the strength that awoman has to have just to carry
a baby for nine months is, is anunparalleled strength, but it's
unique to her because it wasdesigned to be for her.
(08:54):
So we want to make sure in theseconversations, we want to always
let the audience know thatthere's always a pair.
You cannot separate the two.
They're always together.
Faridah (09:04):
On that note, as you said, the, the internal and the
external, you know, it's aconversation as you all know, in
our audience, you know, you allknow that I am my husband and I
are the parents of fourdaughters.
And so as you can imagine, wehave many discussions in our
household and God bless himbecause the estrogen does.
So, you know, keep him in yourprayers always, you know, he has
(09:31):
a different type of stress thathe bears that strengthens him.
But you know, to all fathers ofdaughters out there, we respect
you.
We love you.
Your presence in the lives ofyour daughters is it cannot be
replaced, not by, by mother oranyone else.
But I will say.
that we have recently even had,had many discussions on the
(09:52):
uterus as a muscle, you know, isa muscle and, and their
understanding of all of the, thedifferent changes that they go
through as young women, youknow, the physical changes that
they go through and how the, youknow, it's not just, it's not
something to suffer, but it isa, a, a signal, you know, we, we
opened this conversation talkingabout the musculature and stress
patterns.
being placed on it.
(10:13):
And the muscle, you know, beingbuilt by that stress.
Well, the uterus is a muscle andthat the contraction of the
uterus is what allows life toflow to for impurity to be
cleansed.
They're all, there's a number ofthings, but like you said,
that's an internal musculaturethat it may not always be
(10:33):
apparent to the rest of theworld, but the function that it
serves is is singular.
You know, in the, in the lifeand the future of mankind.
So like you said, even the womanbeing the womb of the mind, that
mating, the fact that the the,we were created in noble pairs,
you know, and so the nobility,the karamna, that is an Arabic
(10:54):
term from the Quran, it's, it'sreferring to the nobility of
mankind of the children of Adam.
You know, we can look at thatand infer from that as well,
that the the the functions ofboth man and woman to produce
that, that nobility that isinherent from a being that was
in the creation of Adam andwhich we all bear, that there is
(11:17):
an ability in our roles, ourindividual roles that we play in
helping that come into intoreality.
And so, And speaking of men andwomen, noble pairs, we touched
briefly on a concept in, in theepisode where we had our
intergenerational men's roundtable.
(11:38):
And we touched briefly on a, aquote from Frederick Douglass by
Frederick Douglass and hediscussed the, the being easier.
to to build Children than torepair broken men.
And of course, we understand mento be in the sense of universal
man.
That quote was referring to bothmen and women.
And one of the things that youknow, was discussed was that the
(12:02):
idea that it's easier to buildchildren than to repair broken
men, but easier does not meanthat it's impossible to do the
other And so the you know, thethe the difficult work the
challenging work especially whenwe see today such a a vacuum in
the leadership and the role andthe presence of men in the lives
(12:23):
of of all men in this country,but in particular of African
American men and boys.
And we see that that lack, thethe guidance that we've been
given from scripture leads us toUnderstand that the role of
those who have, you know, wediscussed the idea of charity
being paired with the standingand the establishment.
(12:44):
Well, the charity has to come inthe form of, in every religion,
in Christianity and Judaism andAl Islam, we have the idea that
we're supposed to take care ofthe orphan.
Yes.
And so if the child is orphanedin reality, or if the child is
orphaned by virtue of theabsence of, of his father or her
(13:05):
father in their life, then it isthe responsibility of the
community.
to take care of that orphan, to,to step in and to provide that
modeling that men give, that thematerial sustenance that men
give.
That's a responsibility of thecommunity that they bear.
And so I think that's somethingthat hopefully we'll address on
(13:26):
future podcasts, perhaps to someextent in this conversation.
But I do want to go on record assaying that that Frederick
Douglass, he made thatcommentary as a slave as a slave
who liberated himself andultimately had his freedom paid
for by abolitionist supportersof his, but he had the
experiences.
He was taught by life.
He was not educated in theinstitutions of the day, but he
(13:49):
was taught by you know taught,taught how to read by a one of
his mistresses, and he wasessentially self taught and
taught through his experiencesas a human being and on the
circuit.
So he's an impressive man, but Ithink that this idea that that
one road is easier, because it'sthe natural road that God
(14:11):
designed, the noble pair comingtogether to produce an
environment that takes a childfrom infancy to their
establishment with the help ofGod.
And then there's a morechallenging road that the
believers are invited to attendto, and that is the repairing.
Of those who have been broken.
Frank (14:30):
Yes.
And the invitation itself is aninvitation to the best life, the
most complete life, theessential life.
So when we see Children,Children are a representation of
that for the thinking person.
You know, I've been blessed tohave two children of my own.
I've come from a family where itwas five of us that my parents
(14:50):
gave birth to five.
And then my father comes from afamily where his parents gave
birth to 12 children.
So so for the parent, when thechild comes into the world, we
see the ideal life.
In the child, we see theinnocent life.
We see the most comprehensivelife.
And ultimately we have toprotect that life, provide for
that life and protect that life.
(15:11):
So a child represents that.
So in Frederick Douglass'sstruggle to understand where he
was at the moment, at the time,looking at slaves and slavery at
the time, and understanding thatwe were children who came into
this world under, under acondition that wasn't an
innocent condition.
It was already marred bydeficiencies and, and things
(15:35):
that take away from the goodlife.
We were brought into that world.
So in his mind and in his soul,like every soul, we seek to find
the purity.
We seek to find the thing that'sessential and innocent in us to
be able to identify and we movetowards that.
So in his mind, he's believingthat the child itself, the
innocence of the child iseasier.
(15:56):
It's easier.
This is the way this is theprescription for us to have a
better life going forward.
Some people have been affectedby circumstances, which may not
be their fault.
It may not be But ultimatelythey will carry some level of
the burden of responsibility aswell.
But the emphasis should be tothe purity of the life of the
human being, and we want toaddress the purity and in the
(16:18):
purity, ultimately we canaddress the deficiencies.
But never the other way aroundit.
If we address it the other wayaround, then we neglect the
innocent and we neglect thepurity and ultimately never even
get to that point aboutevolution or development.
So Frederick Douglass and hisgreat wisdom, Frederick Douglass
was a mouthpiece for all whowere downtrodden, all of this
(16:41):
group of people who once againcame into this world and came
into this situation that werenothing that they'd done in the
past.
But they found themselves at thebottom.
They found themselves under thechoke and yoke of, of oppression
and wanting to have the freelife, the best life, and not
only for that group of people,but that's just what's natural
(17:02):
in all people, because we're allthe same from the same soul.
So that's what the soul yearnsfor in its essential cry.
So the great Frederick Douglass,and yes, he is a giant for us
and he's a giant for humanity.
And we watched him, we saw hislife unravel in a way that he
ultimately freed, freed himselfand got to the point where he
(17:25):
could now affect the innocentlife and give nurturing to the
innocent life, the greatFrederick Douglass.
Faridah (17:33):
Yes, I, I could not have put it better than you did
just now that was a wonderfulsummary of his life and impact.
And I would say too that youknow, after you know, Frederick
Douglass is buried in Rochester,New York and a significant part
of his life was spent there.
And one of the things thathappened is that, you know, with
(17:54):
his wife, he took in manyrelatives of his.
who were coming out of slavery.
And as you can imagine, the tollthat oppression takes, I don't
even think that we can we'revery fond in this day and age,
our people here.
Now I'm speaking to our people,African American people and I'm
(18:15):
speaking the descendants of, ofslaves.
We, We tend to be a bit myopicin our thinking, particularly in
the current day and age, and wefocus in on our set of
circumstances without thebenefit of the long view of
(18:37):
history and scripture.
So what does, you know, that,that, what, if we look at our
current circumstances in lightof human history, or even just
our history, our sojourn here inthis country brought to these
shores, To be enslaved, broughtliving, constructing a new
(18:59):
culture, a new ethnic identitybeing constructed on these
shores under the yoke ofoppression, of chattel slavery.
And we tend to look at ourcircumstances today and say,
this is the worst we've ever hadit.
This is entirely untrue.
It is not factual.
And if we would, we're told inthe Quran.
(19:21):
The, the guidance of, of God,we're told that when you have an
unfortunate, I'm paraphrasinghere, but we're told that when
you're not when you're not doingwell, when your circumstances
seem to be circumscribed.
Look at the one who is worse offthan you.
Now that can be looking aroundyou because what does that do
(19:42):
when we look at those who areworse off?
We should what that should thatopens up a pathway to gratitude
Yes, what is if there's a personwho is worse off than I am Then
what does that say about mysituation?
It means that I have somehowsome extra set of resources,
whether it's in my spirit,whether it's in guidance that
(20:03):
I've been given, whether it's amaterial circumstance, there is
something in my circumstancesfor which I have to be grateful.
And a manifestation of thatgratitude is to use what I have
to, to reach the next level ofestablishment in the life of, of
the human being.
And so there, we can do that inmultiple ways.
(20:24):
One of the ways we can do it isto literally look around us.
We suffer here in the UnitedStates, you know, under poverty,
there's, you know there aresystems that are set up in a way
that we're more likely to fallvictim to certain behaviors.
All of those things are areality.
Now, take a look overseas, lookat realities where people are
literally starving to death andthen return that fresh set of
(20:49):
eyes to your circumstances andask, what, what do I have to be
grateful for?
And what can I do with thecircumstances that I have?
And none of that negatesreality.
It doesn't say that the thingsthat you've observed are not in
fact true, but what it does sayis how can I look at this now as
a grateful human being who hasbeen given some measure more.
(21:09):
than another group of people onthis planet.
And the other invitation itgives us as well is to not just
survey what's happening now, butto survey our same circumstances
throughout our history.
So compare yourself now to ourancestors, the freed men and
women who are just coming out ofof enslavement.
What were their circumstances?
(21:30):
What are our circumstances?
What do we have to be gratefulfor?
What can we learn from what theydid with their resources and how
we can we apply that now?
So I think that there is animpulse in us today.
I'll be quite frank.
It's quite disturbing becausewhat it does is it does not
allow for a hopeful, optimisticrealistic.
(21:51):
I won't say optimistic.
I will say a realistic andhopeful look at our
circumstances that allows us tosee that we are on a trajectory
from slavery.
Yes.
We came from a reality that isfar worse than where we are now.
So if we could come this far,then we can go that much
further.
Frank (22:09):
Yes.
Well, you're, you'rePresentation just now.
I couldn't have said that anybetter.
I would say to add to thatbecause we do have that this
notion in us there, there's atendency in us whether we're
conscious of it or not.
And we're not necessarily surewhat's fueling it.
And I would just assume thatit's usually the enemy, a man
who was influencing us to havethis Perspective, but normally
(22:32):
in this perspective, we would,we would say, and I'm
articulating with thatperspective would be that's
being influenced by the enemy.
We would tend to say that's,that's too idealistic.
Like what you're saying is topie in the sky.
Like, that's not, that's nottrue.
Although you did say that, youknow, we won't negate the
reality of things and we're, andwe're not negating it.
(22:54):
But often it comes with aresponsibility.
And as you said, we don't havean appreciation, a readily
appreciation to look at ourhistory and juxtapose our
circumstances today to what ourhistory was before.
I may mention in that roundtablediscussion about the womb itself
(23:14):
and how the womb is a confining.
Place for a child, a child can'tstretch out a child.
Can't, they can't freely movethe way they want to move.
And ultimately the womb isdesigned to place the child in a
place for the child to now haveits best life.
So when a child is forming inthe womb, the head is never at
the bottom.
It's always at the top or to theside, but when it comes time for
(23:38):
the time, when it comes time forthe child to now exit the womb,
because the womb has served itsfull purpose.
Then the child gets rotated andput in a situation where it can
now go to its next step.
So that imagery alone shouldhelp motivate us to understand
that absolutely yes, in 2024, weare going through some very
(23:59):
difficult times.
But no, no doubt about it atall, but these times were
designed to form us in a way forus to be able to handle and
manage the responsibility forwhat tomorrow has to bring for
us in every way, in every shape,in every form.
The fact that I wake up everymorning and look at the sun, you
(24:21):
know, there's a rapper who Iwon't call who it is, but he
said that it doesn't take allday to see the sun.
Those who can appreciate life,it doesn't take you all day to
see the sun.
The minute you notice it, whenyou look outside up, there it
is.
The child, the newborn child isanother day for us.
The sun rising is another day,which means there's another
(24:42):
chance for me to take anotherstep forward in the womb that
I'm currently in now to exit meout, to be able to manage my
responsibilities.
So that's, and some people wouldsay, Oh, that's too idealistic.
It's really not, we need to burnoff the impurities.
You know, God, God says himselfthat he created good and only
(25:03):
accepts the good.
So anything that's not good hasto be purified.
You know, we do things forpurity to be purified.
So that way in his eyes, the onewho's going to hold us
accountable for, for our life,we will become acceptable to
him, be acceptable.
So we have to do the same thingto one another.
We have to burn off theseimpurities that take us away
(25:24):
from the good life and the bestlife.
So.
Just wanted to use the referenceof the womb, use of reference of
the child.
And every day we see signs thattomorrow to actually today,
today gives us hope to be ableto deal with what we couldn't
deal with yesterday.
So we should be able to fix ourdetermination to understand
that.
Yes, we're in a bad situation,but yesterday was far worse than
(25:46):
today.
Faridah (25:46):
Yes, I, I, and I will, I just want to share this, you
know as As Muslims, we believethat the, the Quran, that the
Muhammad, the prophet prayersand peace be upon him came to
confirm what was revealedbefore, you know, and, and came
to clarify and shed light onwhat came before.
(26:06):
So in that tradition, we are tohold as truth, whatever came in
the scriptures before that isconsistent with the Quran.
And so what you just said aboutBeing hopeful, being successful
Jeremiah 29, 11 for, I know theplans I have for you declares
(26:28):
the Lord plans for welfare andnot for evil to give you a
future and a hope.
John 14 27.
Peace I leave with you.
My peace I give to you.
Not as the world gives do I giveto you.
Let not your hearts be troubled.
Neither let them be afraid.
And finally, Joshua 1 9.
(26:50):
Have I not commanded you bestrong and courageous?
Do not be frightened and do notbe dismayed.
For the Lord your God is withyou wherever you go.
God tells us in the Quran,surely, there's an emphasis in
the Arabic, it say verily,surely, certainly, the
(27:10):
believers.
will be successful.
That is a promise that comesfrom faithfulness.
It is a, an eyes wide open lookat the world.
It does not mean that we willnot have struggle.
It does not mean that thecircumstances of our lives are
not constrained at times.
It does not mean that the enemyof man is not alive and well and
(27:33):
doing his work to seduce us awayfrom our covenant with and to
into a covenant with him.
But what it does mean is thatthe disposition of the believer,
the one who accepts guidance asscripture as guidance, that the
believers have a hopefuldisposition.
(27:54):
And they know that whatever itis that we're looking at, we're
looking at it with a hopefulspirit, knowing that as you
ended, you said, we have to knowthat what we're doing is
pleasing to God.
So, and we know that we will beaccountable to our creator one
day.
So that type of security is notin what we, the outcome, we are
(28:17):
not able to secure the outcome.
Right.
God secures the outcome.
What we are responsible for isthe effort and the effort is
always rewarded and God promisesus a success.
So I just say that as a reminderto us that when we include with
that we marry that with thisunderstanding of man meaning
(28:37):
mind and woman being womb ofmind, it means that with this
hopeful disposition, now we arefree To set our rational
capacities, our creativecapacities, In service to the
creator using that guidance.
Now we're able to set thosecapacities to work in the
(28:59):
service of the benefit of meantto come up with solutions to
come up with strategies toaddress.
the situations in which we findourselves.
So a strategy there's somethingI, I think back to the idea of
education and how education canbe used to uplift and has always
been used in our journey up fromslavery to, to edify, to help us
(29:24):
understand who we are, to giveus knowledge of self always
grounded for the most part inknowledge of God.
This type of education was used.
To help us give us the truepicture of who we are.
And one of the things that Iwanted to say in light of even
Those young people that thatreally great robust conversation
that we had with those threegeneration of men in the same
(29:47):
family It helped us tounderstand or gave us a
perspective.
Yes on the importance of fathersin the lives of their children.
And that legacy that is not onlyleft by grandparents and
parents, grandfather to father,father to son, but also leaving
what was expressed there wasthat you have to leave something
(30:07):
for the next generation to workwith.
And so one of those things iswhat happens, what do we do when
we have a generation of youngpeople who, grew up or adults
now who grew up without thosethose fathers or father figures
in their life.
And now they have children.
So who, who are not benefitingfrom that legacy?
(30:30):
One of the programs that one ofthe, the, the invitations the
pathways that was opened up bythe honorable Elijah Muhammad
was the idea of boarding schoolsfor our, for our children.
So when you have an environment,a womb going back to that
pairing, right, that there's awomb and environment that
nurtures, that's the feminineenergy.
(30:51):
And then you have a discipline,a structure, a leadership that
balances that out.
That's the masculine energy orthe masculine.
I won't use energy.
That sounds kind of like, youknow.
Kind of a space talk sometimesto people, but the principle,
I'll use that word, themasculine and the feminine
principle when you put those twotogether, you're talking about
(31:14):
creating an environment that hasstructure and discipline in it.
And, and as you said, securesor, or gets rid of the
impurities.
Yeah.
So that innocence can beprotected.
So maybe one of those strategiesand we have to have plenty of
strategies, but the creativityand the, the, the thinking mind
can awaken to the fact thatperhaps we can create other
(31:36):
environments that would helpthose who do not have.
men in their lives, the fathersin their lives, or the father
figures, while we are stillbuilding toward the recognition
that it is necessary for us tobuild those strong family units.
So I just thought I'd put thatout there.
I don't know if you want toreflect on that or even add
something else to thatconversation.
Frank (31:57):
Well, in, in scripture and you've referenced this in,
in that particular episode ofthe podcast that it talks about
freeing the slave.
And that is the one who has beenbound by something that they
can't have their best life.
Depending on what that is, itcould be something physical,
emotional, spiritual, any typeof resource, a lack of resources
that doesn't allow them to havetheir best life, their burden,
(32:19):
their, their just differentcircumstances that doesn't give
them that free pathway, butthose who have the ability are
authorized and are commanded.
To free the slave that that'swhat we're supposed to do.
So charity itself is part ofthat.
So even if I'm in the mostneglectful stage in my life, I'm
(32:43):
still obligated to give charity.
That's all that obligation neverleaves me.
But, but that comes with a levelof intelligence as well.
So that means that I have tocreate ways or have to look for
ways, actively look for ways toput myself in position to give
charity.
Which means that I'm open toreceive charity.
Now receiving the charity isonly designed to get me back to
(33:05):
a point position where I can nowgive it.
So this part of our culture andthis part of our history and.
Well, not history, ourcircumstances that we have a lot
of deficiencies in the purity ofwhat we're aiming for and what
we're working for is ultimatelyto be able to give charity to
that situation for them tounderstand that you're not
(33:26):
designed to stay in thatsituation.
You're designed to come out ofthat.
And move into a bettercircumstance, hence our history
within slavery, you know,slavery, whether those who
oppressed us did this by designor not by design, it wasn't, we
weren't going to ever stay inthat condition.
(33:47):
It was beyond them.
Their time ended in being theoppressors of a group of people,
because that womb, if you wantto use that term, came to his
fulfillment in that sense, andthen something was birthed out
of that circumstance.
So ultimately, we're notdesigned to be in a deplorable
state.
We're not, we're designed tostand up as all human beings,
(34:08):
standing up in a conviction andin a recognition of who we are
as an individual and as a soul,and as an expression to
ultimately come into our bestlife.
So the obligation on those whohave.
Are to give to those who don't,and to never, and I want to
strongly emphasize this in everyendeavor that we embark upon, we
(34:32):
can never escape.
We should never leave out and weshould never not be mindful of
our responsibility to ourcreator, because in that
regardfulness is what upliftsour community and brings us to
the core.
Destination excellence that wealways talk about, that the soul
has always talked about.
(34:53):
That is the key for us to comeinto our best picture.
So whenever the woe is meattitude kind of comes and
becomes very pervasive in someof our establishments, then that
means those establishments haveleft their regardfulness for
their creator.
Faridah (35:09):
You know, the idea.
That we can somehow accomplishthe monumental task of taking
humanity, a human community,from slavery to establishment.
(35:31):
Without the mercy, the guidanceand the help of our creator is
one of the greatest I think,invitations to downfall that our
enemy has ever
Frank (35:50):
sold.
Faridah (35:52):
And so what you said is in fact where every one of these
conversations begins.
There, when you said that wecannot escape the
responsibility, we cannot escapethe responsibility to our
creator and then the creator isthe one who gives us an inborn
sense of responsibility forothers, for our fellow man.
You're right.
You know, it's a, it's a careand concern that is nurtured by
(36:14):
the family unit and that womb ofthe family while we are still
young to take care of oneanother, look out for your
brother, look out for yourlittle sister, you know, this is
a family act as one where onefist together these lessons for
the healthy family.
The healthy set of parents, weknow there are aberrations, but
the healthy human familyinculcates this type of, of a
(36:36):
sense of loyalty and support forone another from the time that
children are young.
So if we go back to the ideathat we, Oh, even as you said
that you should always be tryingto put yourself in a position to
give charity, that even when youare in a position where you need
to receive charity, even asmile.
Can be an act of charity.
So even when you don't havematerial wealth to give, you can
(37:00):
sustain and spark somebody'sspirit just by your countenance,
by your your outlook on theworld, which for the believer,
Is a positive outlook is ahopeful outlook is a realistic
outlook because we know that wedo nothing without the power of
the creator.
And so one thing I just wantedto say on this, and I'd like to
(37:20):
get your response on this fromyou, and that is when we are
when we're establishing oracknowledging.
The responsibility that we haveto one another, and we're
acknowledging that that much isasked of us.
What what comes to mind for meis the idea that the balance.
(37:42):
It was something that one of ourguests, our 23 year old guest,
my nephew, and he is newlymarried.
And you asked him about aquestion.
You asked him about You know,he, they do not have children
yet, but they hope to one day,God willing, you know, what are
his thoughts what has informedhim in terms of his
understanding of his role as afather, which you know, God
(38:03):
willing will happen for them oneday.
And I thought that his response,particularly as a 23 year old
was very thoughtful.
I mean, that's always who Ihsanhas been, but it was a, it was
an insightful response.
And he talked about how he hopedto to model for his children and
set a direction and orientationfor his children toward what is
(38:24):
good.
Yes.
That they be, that they aspireto what is good.
They understand and know what isgood.
And they and it's something thatis modeled for them by their
parents and for him inparticular in this conversation
by the father.
And so I think that we cannotget away from The importance of
the fact that when we're talkingabout leadership and leadership
(38:44):
comes from, remember, evenunderstanding the concept of man
means mind we're talking aboutthat in a masculine sense right
now in the sense of men, adulthuman males, but that is a, a
principle that is alive and wellin females as well, you know,
that, that thinking that beingthe mind and, and rational being
rational and reasoning.
But in particular, we're talkingabout the context of men and
(39:07):
fathers is that you have toaccept.
As we've spoken of in otherepisodes of this podcast, that
there is a good life, not a, andthere is a best life and the,
the parameters for that bestlife are laid down by the
creator.
They're not laid down by ourindividual desires.
We have, there's a wide birth.
(39:28):
There's an idea in.
Al Islam in the that the idea,the term halal means what is
permissible and that that iswide and big and that haram,
what is impermissible orunlawful, that that's, those
are, that's a particular set ofthings and it's, it's limited,
but the, the parameters forhalal are, are wide.
So within the parameters thatGod puts down for mankind on how
(39:53):
to achieve our best lives.
There are individuality.
There are, there are ways thatwe can individualize the
expression of those principlesthat God lays down as excellent
for mankind, but there areprinciples.
And I think one of the thingsthat we run into, one of the
issues we run into today is theidea of moral relativism.
(40:13):
or that we don't like to, whoare we to judge other people?
Right.
And one of the things thatHassan was saying is that I want
my children to know what is goodand I want them to gravitate
toward what is good.
And I want to model what isgood.
And I think the, the, the, Theconcept of male leadership, the
concept of fathers and manhoodin society cannot shy away from
(40:36):
there being a moral imperative.
And that that morality is notcreated by a man because he's a
man.
It is created and laid down bythe creator of all the worlds
that men and women have tofollow.
And so I just think it'simportant and I'd like you to
respond to that, that idea thatthere is a good and a bad.
There are, there is a best wayto do things.
(40:59):
There is a, a natural set ofprinciples by which the entire
universe operates that arecomplimentary.
And we have to be willing tosay, I love you, my brother, I
love you, my sister, but this isthe best life and this is what
I'm going to stand on.
And so I want to know what you,you know, how you would respond
to that, particularly in today's
Frank (41:20):
excellent question.
So when it's saying.
As that responded to thatquestion, I immediately
confirmed what he said, becausethat was the same answer that I
gave when my wife and I werestarting our life together and
was wondering what would be thedirection for our children.
(41:40):
Like we understood spirituallyand all the other things, but
what was it that we wanted togive to our children?
So that way it can consistentlynurture them to be who we wanted
them to be, to grow into the,well, They could never be what
we wanted them to be becausewe're very limited.
You know, God is the one whocreates us and gives us our
life.
So the idea of what we wanted tohave in the direction we wanted
(42:04):
them to go, we just wanted tomake sure we were going in that
direction, which was a good, thegood life direction.
So what Ehsan said was basicallywhat I confirmed.
So we had the same.
Same view in which I was veryhappy to hear to let me know
that it was a very natural.
That's a very naturaldisposition and want for a
father for his Children becausehe is the provider and the
(42:26):
protector for the family and forthe Children.
So you talk about this moral.
This moral compass, if you willin position of leadership,
leadership, having a moralcompass.
So I, I wanted to quickly about,and this adds to the question
you're at, you're asking me.
We, we recently lost John Amos,who most of us knew him as the
(42:49):
father James Evans on goodtimes.
Also, he played the adult KuntaKinte in the TV show roots.
But specifically the father forgood times and James on good
times was a moral character onthe show.
They kept the family in acertain direction.
He complimented his wife and hemade sure that his children was
(43:12):
not going to do anything.
That they weren't supposed to.
And if they did, they would haveto suffer the consequence.
And James did not hold back onmaking sure they understood what
the consequences of, of thembeing out of line.
So that sense of fatherhood andhaving that moral leadership for
a family sets the family on aroad for them to, to ultimately.
(43:36):
Ultimately have the best lifebecause it's predicated upon
that is predicated upon a, aregardfulness of your creator
and what he created in you.
And you are being obedient towhat is already in you to be
able to provide pathways tobring that out to its fullest,
to its fullest life.
(43:56):
So we talk about the best life.
You know, people say I'm livingmy best life versus living the
best life.
And, and the best life is auniversal principle.
The best life is a universalprinciple means that every group
of people in any way in theworld has that.
Principle for their, theirdetermination as well, but we
have to go back to gauge ourpicture of our best life against
(44:22):
the picture of the best life andhave to adjust accordingly.
We have to be open andaccountable and have some level
of accountability to understandthat we have to make whatever
necessary changes we can to makesure that our best life is in
alignment with the best life.
Because if not, then ultimately.
(44:42):
We'll just have chaos and, andall types of disorder and, and
people will now draw back wherewe were naturally.
Designed to be brought togetherin the life that we want to have
for ourselves.
So so that, that's kind of myunderstanding, excuse me, of
what, of what that looks like ofa father and wanting to have
(45:03):
good leadership in his family,but the leadership has to begin
in a moral sense.
And then from there.
You know, that's the guidelinefor us.
And that's the parameters forus.
Now, within that parameter,within that halal parameter, I
have the expanse of the earthand the heavens for me to
establish the life that I'mdesigned to establish because my
creator is the one who providedthese steps for me.
(45:25):
So I look at it in that sense.
As far as women are concernedand them having this ability to
have the level of strength andto have the level of thinking
processes that men have.
Absolutely.
Because we're from the samesoul.
So in referencing my niece andher putting the demands on me
and, and interesting, you saythat in a I have another niece
whose birthday is coming up soontoo, but that particular niece,
(45:48):
I tell her as she's developinginto the woman she's developing.
And I'd say from a man'sperspective that.
One of the more, one of the morebeautiful things that God has
ever created was a woman whosmiles now.
That's, that's a naturaldisposition in a woman.
So she's going to naturallysmile because she feels good.
But there are structures thatneeds to be around her to
(46:10):
protect that smile.
That's the innocence.
There has to be a structure toprotect the innocence and a
smiling woman represents theinnocence.
Nothing says more aboutinnocence than a woman who
smiles aside from a child, butwe're talking about adults.
If you see a woman who smilesall the time and have a very
beautiful, natural smile, thenthat's worth dying for.
(46:31):
That's something that men needto protect because it says
something about the soul beingin a good state and that what
she gives us charity will benothing but beneficial to
society on the whole.
Faridah (46:41):
Interesting that you mentioned smile a lot of times
and the, the role, how, again,our manifestations as men and
women, whether it's thethinking, the innocence, the
purity, the beauty, thestructure, the discipline, all
of those things interact withone another.
They compliment one another.
So you're talking about awoman's smile.
(47:02):
I remember, I remember when thethe Me Too movement took off
and, you know, it initiallybegan with you know,
conversation around sexualassault and impropriety and the
workplace and things of thatnature.
But one of the things thathappened was a conversation
that, that allowed women todiscuss what was happening to
(47:23):
them in the context of, youknow, walking down the street
and being cat called.
And, and, and one of theconversations that came up,
particularly from AfricanAmerican women, was that they
were always being, there weremen who would demand that they
smile.
Why are you looking so mean?
Why are you looking so mad?
Why don't you smile or smile?
(47:44):
You're too pretty not to besmiling.
And one of the things that Ithink is missing in that is that
what we're not understanding isthat the point that you just
made, that a woman smiling isprotected.
If a woman is and you know, thisis a generalization.
I'm not, you know, there aresome women who are just more
(48:05):
serious minded or not seriousminded because I think you can
be serious minded and love tosmile, but you know, God gives
us different personalities.
So, you know, I have somechildren who smile a lot and
some, you know, when you getthat smile, it is the most
beautiful thing in the world,but it might take a lot to get
there.
However, the idea that, that ourour sense of peace and wellbeing
(48:27):
in the world is tied up with thethe protection of our men is
something I think that we shouldconsider.
And perhaps, consider moredeeply the ramifications that
it's not about, you know ifsomeone asks you to smile,
they're asking to see somebeauty.
So I'm not looking at this as tome, that's not about toxic
(48:47):
masculinity or anything likethat.
It is an opportunity to reflecton the roles that we play in one
another's lives.
And that's not a You know,that's, that wasn't a vote for
the Me Too movement.
I think that's, there werecertain things that were
problematic, but what it does dois allow something, the light to
shine on issues that arehappening in our society, and
(49:08):
then to deal with it from a Godconscious perspective, with the
light of guidance to illuminatethis, not looking at, you know,
how, you know, women might feelabout this, but what is actual,
not looking at how men mightfeel about this, but what is
actually happening.
And then allowing God to guideus to the best iteration, to our
(49:30):
best lives.
And there is guidance.
But what I wanted to say aboutyou, you talked about authority
and and fatherhood about how,you know, the father, As an
example and how what Hassan saidresonated with you and that's
what you did when you and yourwife had your two sons, you
know, you considered that youknow, what am I doing?
What legacy am I leaving?
(49:50):
What do I want to cultivate inmy children?
And for both of you, theconclusion, the natural
conclusion is I want to do good.
I want to transmit good.
I want to be good and I wantthem to carry on what is good.
That is the natural proclivity.
It reminds me that there's a abiblical saying with which, if
you're an American, no matterwhat your religion is, I think
(50:11):
most Americans are familiar withthe biblical a quote from a
biblical passage, spare the rod,spoil the child.
That's right.
And, you know, For many of us,we grew up with it just being a
literal direct reference tospankings, you know, whippings,
you know, you know, spare therod, spoil the child.
That child didn't get beat.
So, you know, that's a whole, anentirely different conversation.
(50:34):
What I thought about is what therod represents or how it was
represented in scripture andwhat that actually means.
And when we think about a rod inscripture, whether it's Moses or
Aaron in the court of thePharaoh when they were throwing
down their rods, what does therod and, and throwing it against
the magicians and the men of, ofPharaoh's court.
(50:55):
And we're talking about the, Theschemes of Satan and the schemes
of men who have been seduced bySatan, and then the power that
is endued by men who areconscious and sincere and
seeking God's guidance and whathe can, the power and authority
he can imbue them with by virtueof them being servants of his.
And so the, the the rod is a,it's a natural symbol of
(51:17):
authority and almost all of theprophets throughout scripture,
many of them, or almost all ofthem were shepherds.
You know, so they, they ledtheir flocks.
They, they directed theirflocks.
They cared for their flocks.
Again, this nurturing element wesee again in the prophets, even
though they were men, we'relooking at that principle of
duality they're caring for.
(51:38):
Not only are they leading, butthey're caring for their flock.
So there's this element offemininity, the nurturing along
with the discipline and thestructure.
And so the rod was what theyused to direct and guide their
flock.
And so as a representation ofauthority, we can also see that
what was when Pharaoh'smagicians threw down their rod
(52:00):
and then Moses throws down hisrod.
It eventually does what itswallows up their, their rods.
That's the Quran story, right?
That's the, the, how we are toldthe story in the Quran.
What does that mean?
That means that how you, theestablishment, the authority by
which you rule has to be alignedwith God's authority in order
for it to swallow up the schemesof the world, to protect the
(52:22):
innocent, to have a chance ofbeing successful.
And so I think that invitationthat is given to men as fathers
when they, when they arehusbands and fathers is to rule
not by my will, not rule, butto, to lead.
To lead not by my will, but toalways reference back to the
guidance of God.
(52:43):
That's how we, that's how we goright.
And that's how we determine whatis good and bad, what is right
and wrong, what holds value forus and what needs to be
purified.
Frank (52:53):
Absolutely.
And that's why James Evans inthat deplorable circumstance
that they were in he made surehe did not sp a rod on those
folks.
So and they even had categoriesto all farmers.
They even had categories forthe, the types of beatings that
they would get.
But, you know, but that was it.
But it was more love thananything else.
So but the rod also represents adiscipline.
(53:13):
And a logic as well.
So you spoil, you spare thediscipline and you spare the
the, the logic, then anythingcan happen.
You spoil the job and what'sspoiling meaning that it's not
useful, it's not useful anymore.
So we don't want that.
The, the, the, the life is auseful life and the children are
signs for us that life comesanew.
(53:36):
For us.
So that's greater good andgreater use for us.
So absolutely.
Well, I'll tell you my mygrandmother, she didn't pull the
rod at all, but I love you.
I
Faridah (53:46):
would say that my I can say you know, not that we didn't
receive spankings, but Iremember the rod that my father
used being more the, the, thethe rod of, of logic and
reasoning with us, you know?
So it was, and it was alwaysfrom scripture was always the
guidance that comes from a lot.
(54:08):
I don't have any authorityexcept that it comes from God
because I'm inviting you to whatis good.
And so, yeah.
And so I remember when you saythat it was one of those things
that, and I know there it's beena source of comedy.
for the American sitcom for manydecades.
I don't know when itdisappeared, but you know, we
that the threat would be, I'mgoing to tell your father and
(54:31):
nobody wanted to get in trouble.
So it's like that idea that thisrot this discipline was going to
be used to measure the yourbehavior.
Are you aligning yourself with,with what is pleasing to God or
are you not?
And that's the function that youknow, daddy served.
Nobody wanted him to be calledat work.
Frank (54:50):
Yes, absolutely.
Well, Farda.
You know, with this conversationand the many views that we have
and the views that our audiencehas and wanting to get us to a
place where we can be verybeneficial to those who are
immediately around us and tothose who may just be down the
street next door to ourneighbors.
You know, the praise is for God,the praise is the knowledge
(55:11):
comes from him.
And he has given us intelligenceto be able to use this, to help
us get us to the best life.
And with that, we have moved.
One step closer to destinationexcellence.
Faridah (55:24):
Until next time, let us remain conscious of our creator,
of the sacred relationship ofparent and child and of the
family ties that bind us.
Subscribe to the podcast andcome back next time for a new
episode of The Family Ties.
Frank (55:40):
From Frank Abdul Shahid
Faridah (55:42):
and Farida Abdul Tawwab Brown.
Frank (55:46):
Peace, peace be
Faridah (55:49):
upon the family.
Peace be upon the family, as we welcome you to another
experience of The Family Ties, aprescription for society.
I am your co host, Frank AbdulShahid.
Faridah (00:27):
And I am your co host, Farida Abdul Tawab Brown.
Before we get started, don'tforget to subscribe so you can
stay up to date and get all thelatest episodes.
Frank (00:37):
Welcome back Farida.
Welcome back to another episodeof The The family ties, the
prescription for society.
How has your your week, yourlast few weeks have been for
you, for your family?
Faridah (00:50):
Uh, They have been gloriously busy.
So, you know, I think we've beenvery busy doing a lot.
Adjusting to change just as theseasons, you know, just as we're
reflecting a lot of what we seein the natural world around us.
And so, yeah, just enjoying thattime.
And it's a pleasure to be backhere with you and our listening
(01:14):
audience.
How, how have the past few weeksbeen going for you and your
family?
Frank (01:18):
We've been, been very well.
Yes.
Had a situation of celebratingone of my niece's birthdays and
I have Quite a lot of nephews, Ihave 17 nephews actually, but I
only have five nieces.
So the nieces are very, veryspecial, especially to me.
So whenever there's somethingfor the niece.
(01:39):
Needs any attention or anything.
I'm always trying to make it mypoint to be there.
So she had her 25th birthday andwe all went and visited my niece
and made it such a wonderfulmemory for her.
And she's grown to be such ayoung, wonderful young lady and
just established herself in theworld.
So, but over the last few weeks,you know, just celebrating the,
the change in the seasons, thechanges in the colors, the
(02:01):
changes in the weather.
So you know, this is a mercy, soeverything's been very well.
Thank you.
Faridah (02:07):
Wow.
It is a mercy.
You know, I think of you said25th birthday, you know, that
emphasis on five, five beingsuch a seminal number for
humanity.
You know, our five senses, ourfive fingers on each hand, five
toes.
five openings on the face, youknow, the two eyes, the two
nostrils and the mouth.
(02:27):
So, you know, listening to youshare how she is making her way
in the world, awakening to herpurpose, establishing herself as
an adult is such a hearteningthing to hear.
And especially as you consideryour role as an uncle, as a, a
male providing male leadershipand attention that is necessary
in the construction of familylife.
(02:48):
You know, it's, it's a, it's awonderful thing.
So I am pleased to hear that.
And it's always wonderful whenwe are able to share the forward
progress.
Of our, of our families.
Frank (03:00):
Yes, and she's such a very dynamic personality in our
family.
You know, she makes it knownthat she's on the scene and she
requires quite a bit from heruncle.
And I just want to say for therecord that her uncle does not
mind the requirement that sheputs on me.
Faridah (03:14):
Well, thank you, Uncle.
I think that is the requirementof leadership.
I think, you know, that that'skind of a really nice segue into
a very weighty topic.
Because you're, you're talkingabout the.
the stress, you know, I, myhusband is a nutritionist and a
personal trainer and, you know,he's also a triathlete.
So he's always doing, alwaysdoing a lot, quite a bit of
(03:37):
research into the scientificunderpinnings of, of exercise
and the physiology of the humanbody as it, especially as it's
pushed to its limits.
And he's always, you know, he'spreaching to me often the merits
of weightlifting and strength,strength training, as he calls
it.
And one of the principles isthat stress is what builds
(04:00):
muscle.
You have to put stress on themuscle.
It has to, to tear a little bitin order to form, reform, you
know, or heal more strongly.
And so when I think of youaccepting the responsibility,
the pressure, the stress ofproviding, whether it's
emotionally, spiritually,materially for your entire
family.
But in particular, this feminineinterest and the women in your,
(04:24):
your life and in your familyunits.
I, I see the picture of manhoodand we did just you know, if you
were with us, you know, in ourlistening audience, if you were
with us in a previous episode,we were pleased to host our
first guests on the program.
And that was a round table andintergenerational round table of
men who happened to be from myfamily.
(04:45):
So, you know, it was an honor, apleasure to, to be able to have
them join us.
But the conversation was aboutthe, the role, the position, the
understanding of who men are,what it means to be a man both
as a noun and to embody the maleessence and, and what man means
as a verb, the movement in theworld, and that acceptance of
(05:07):
stress.
to make one stronger.
Of course, when you think aboutmen, there are all kinds of ways
that women are strong.
But when you think of strengthand the embodiment of that in
the human, the balanced humanpicture, you, you tend to think
of the musculature of the man.
And so I just wanted to say thatthat was you know, it was of
great benefit to me to be a partof that conversation and to
(05:29):
listen to you as men discussingthe ideas.
Around manhood and what it meansand in particular, introducing
the language to our listeningaudience for those who are not
familiar with the idea that,that man means mind and all that
the mind can, can do togenerate, to secure interest, to
move things along, to provideleadership and protection in, in
(05:52):
the world is something thatreally came through, I think,
very clearly in thatconversation.
Frank (05:57):
That's a wonderful, wonderful conversation.
Faridah (05:59):
Yeah.
And so I do want to say we, wehad a very robust conversation
and I do want to say Godwilling, we'll have our guests
back on and we'll continue thatconversation.
And in the future, we hope tohave more conversations with
many more guests and perhapssome of you in our listening
audience.
may one day join us as we notonly discuss these ideas, but
(06:20):
really as we learn how to embodythem and help us to form a new
picture as we're moving forwardto establish a new type of
cadence, you know, a cadencecall of movement and rhythm for
our people in establishing thegood life, the family life, that
is a prescription for society.
So I did want to add, Oh, yeah,go ahead.
I don't say
Frank (06:40):
often addressed as the ethical army, but go ahead.
Yes.
Faridah (06:43):
Yeah, no, no, no.
Yes, the ethical army and thatis indeed, you know, Muslim,
Christian, Jewish people of allfaiths and backgrounds who want
to see excellence established inthe world who are who love
humanity.
who see our possibility and thepotential and are not willing to
give up in light of all thenegative messaging that is
(07:04):
coming to us today.
We're not willing to give thatup.
We are willing instead to lookto scripture for guidance and
have the hopefulness of thebeliever saying that we are
marching to a new cadence, toGod's cadence, responding to the
call of his servants to comealive to our purpose.
And so I believe that's This iswhat we're inviting our audience
(07:24):
to do, and this is what theseconversations are a part of.
They're not just talk.
It's part of a movement.
Frank (07:30):
Yes.
And as you addressed earlier,you know, we had this wonderful
roundtable of men, andultimately we'll have a
roundtable of women as well.
You know, we don't ever want toForget the, the, the pairing of
the two, they are natural matesof each other.
We introduced the term man ismine.
That was introduced to us byImam WD Muhammad, Wallace D
(07:51):
Muhammad.
And he also complimented thatwith that the woman is the womb
of the mind.
So as much as men need to havetheir authority and establish
their authority in the world,their authority is only
sensitized by her.
She is the room for hisauthority.
So he just can't go on his ownto decide he wants to do what he
(08:11):
wants to do.
He has to do it with thatsensitivity.
So as much as we want to makemen to be very muscular and
we're designed to be verymuscular, we're very, we're
designed to have, you know,large muscles to carry a heavy
burden physically.
But that same level ofmuscularity and strength is seen
in a woman, but it's seen.
(08:32):
It's inward, not necessarilyhourly, but very inwardly in her
responsibility and the thingsthat she must carry has a half
that have to have a level ofstrength as well, just to even
have a baby, the strength that awoman has to have just to carry
a baby for nine months is, is anunparalleled strength, but it's
unique to her because it wasdesigned to be for her.
(08:54):
So we want to make sure in theseconversations, we want to always
let the audience know thatthere's always a pair.
You cannot separate the two.
They're always together.
Faridah (09:04):
On that note, as you said, the, the internal and the
external, you know, it's aconversation as you all know, in
our audience, you know, you allknow that I am my husband and I
are the parents of fourdaughters.
And so as you can imagine, wehave many discussions in our
household and God bless himbecause the estrogen does.
So, you know, keep him in yourprayers always, you know, he has
(09:31):
a different type of stress thathe bears that strengthens him.
But you know, to all fathers ofdaughters out there, we respect
you.
We love you.
Your presence in the lives ofyour daughters is it cannot be
replaced, not by, by mother oranyone else.
But I will say.
that we have recently even had,had many discussions on the
(09:52):
uterus as a muscle, you know, isa muscle and, and their
understanding of all of the, thedifferent changes that they go
through as young women, youknow, the physical changes that
they go through and how the, youknow, it's not just, it's not
something to suffer, but it isa, a, a signal, you know, we, we
opened this conversation talkingabout the musculature and stress
patterns.
being placed on it.
(10:13):
And the muscle, you know, beingbuilt by that stress.
Well, the uterus is a muscle andthat the contraction of the
uterus is what allows life toflow to for impurity to be
cleansed.
They're all, there's a number ofthings, but like you said,
that's an internal musculaturethat it may not always be
(10:33):
apparent to the rest of theworld, but the function that it
serves is is singular.
You know, in the, in the lifeand the future of mankind.
So like you said, even the womanbeing the womb of the mind, that
mating, the fact that the the,we were created in noble pairs,
you know, and so the nobility,the karamna, that is an Arabic
(10:54):
term from the Quran, it's, it'sreferring to the nobility of
mankind of the children of Adam.
You know, we can look at thatand infer from that as well,
that the the the functions ofboth man and woman to produce
that, that nobility that isinherent from a being that was
in the creation of Adam andwhich we all bear, that there is
(11:17):
an ability in our roles, ourindividual roles that we play in
helping that come into intoreality.
And so, And speaking of men andwomen, noble pairs, we touched
briefly on a concept in, in theepisode where we had our
intergenerational men's roundtable.
(11:38):
And we touched briefly on a, aquote from Frederick Douglass by
Frederick Douglass and hediscussed the, the being easier.
to to build Children than torepair broken men.
And of course, we understand mento be in the sense of universal
man.
That quote was referring to bothmen and women.
And one of the things that youknow, was discussed was that the
(12:02):
idea that it's easier to buildchildren than to repair broken
men, but easier does not meanthat it's impossible to do the
other And so the you know, thethe the difficult work the
challenging work especially whenwe see today such a a vacuum in
the leadership and the role andthe presence of men in the lives
(12:23):
of of all men in this country,but in particular of African
American men and boys.
And we see that that lack, thethe guidance that we've been
given from scripture leads us toUnderstand that the role of
those who have, you know, wediscussed the idea of charity
being paired with the standingand the establishment.
(12:44):
Well, the charity has to come inthe form of, in every religion,
in Christianity and Judaism andAl Islam, we have the idea that
we're supposed to take care ofthe orphan.
Yes.
And so if the child is orphanedin reality, or if the child is
orphaned by virtue of theabsence of, of his father or her
(13:05):
father in their life, then it isthe responsibility of the
community.
to take care of that orphan, to,to step in and to provide that
modeling that men give, that thematerial sustenance that men
give.
That's a responsibility of thecommunity that they bear.
And so I think that's somethingthat hopefully we'll address on
(13:26):
future podcasts, perhaps to someextent in this conversation.
But I do want to go on record assaying that that Frederick
Douglass, he made thatcommentary as a slave as a slave
who liberated himself andultimately had his freedom paid
for by abolitionist supportersof his, but he had the
experiences.
He was taught by life.
He was not educated in theinstitutions of the day, but he
(13:49):
was taught by you know taught,taught how to read by a one of
his mistresses, and he wasessentially self taught and
taught through his experiencesas a human being and on the
circuit.
So he's an impressive man, but Ithink that this idea that that
one road is easier, because it'sthe natural road that God
(14:11):
designed, the noble pair comingtogether to produce an
environment that takes a childfrom infancy to their
establishment with the help ofGod.
And then there's a morechallenging road that the
believers are invited to attendto, and that is the repairing.
Of those who have been broken.
Frank (14:30):
Yes.
And the invitation itself is aninvitation to the best life, the
most complete life, theessential life.
So when we see Children,Children are a representation of
that for the thinking person.
You know, I've been blessed tohave two children of my own.
I've come from a family where itwas five of us that my parents
(14:50):
gave birth to five.
And then my father comes from afamily where his parents gave
birth to 12 children.
So so for the parent, when thechild comes into the world, we
see the ideal life.
In the child, we see theinnocent life.
We see the most comprehensivelife.
And ultimately we have toprotect that life, provide for
that life and protect that life.
(15:11):
So a child represents that.
So in Frederick Douglass'sstruggle to understand where he
was at the moment, at the time,looking at slaves and slavery at
the time, and understanding thatwe were children who came into
this world under, under acondition that wasn't an
innocent condition.
It was already marred bydeficiencies and, and things
(15:35):
that take away from the goodlife.
We were brought into that world.
So in his mind and in his soul,like every soul, we seek to find
the purity.
We seek to find the thing that'sessential and innocent in us to
be able to identify and we movetowards that.
So in his mind, he's believingthat the child itself, the
innocence of the child iseasier.
(15:56):
It's easier.
This is the way this is theprescription for us to have a
better life going forward.
Some people have been affectedby circumstances, which may not
be their fault.
It may not be But ultimatelythey will carry some level of
the burden of responsibility aswell.
But the emphasis should be tothe purity of the life of the
human being, and we want toaddress the purity and in the
(16:18):
purity, ultimately we canaddress the deficiencies.
But never the other way aroundit.
If we address it the other wayaround, then we neglect the
innocent and we neglect thepurity and ultimately never even
get to that point aboutevolution or development.
So Frederick Douglass and hisgreat wisdom, Frederick Douglass
was a mouthpiece for all whowere downtrodden, all of this
(16:41):
group of people who once againcame into this world and came
into this situation that werenothing that they'd done in the
past.
But they found themselves at thebottom.
They found themselves under thechoke and yoke of, of oppression
and wanting to have the freelife, the best life, and not
only for that group of people,but that's just what's natural
(17:02):
in all people, because we're allthe same from the same soul.
So that's what the soul yearnsfor in its essential cry.
So the great Frederick Douglass,and yes, he is a giant for us
and he's a giant for humanity.
And we watched him, we saw hislife unravel in a way that he
ultimately freed, freed himselfand got to the point where he
(17:25):
could now affect the innocentlife and give nurturing to the
innocent life, the greatFrederick Douglass.
Faridah (17:33):
Yes, I, I could not have put it better than you did
just now that was a wonderfulsummary of his life and impact.
And I would say too that youknow, after you know, Frederick
Douglass is buried in Rochester,New York and a significant part
of his life was spent there.
And one of the things thathappened is that, you know, with
(17:54):
his wife, he took in manyrelatives of his.
who were coming out of slavery.
And as you can imagine, the tollthat oppression takes, I don't
even think that we can we'revery fond in this day and age,
our people here.
Now I'm speaking to our people,African American people and I'm
(18:15):
speaking the descendants of, ofslaves.
We, We tend to be a bit myopicin our thinking, particularly in
the current day and age, and wefocus in on our set of
circumstances without thebenefit of the long view of
(18:37):
history and scripture.
So what does, you know, that,that, what, if we look at our
current circumstances in lightof human history, or even just
our history, our sojourn here inthis country brought to these
shores, To be enslaved, broughtliving, constructing a new
(18:59):
culture, a new ethnic identitybeing constructed on these
shores under the yoke ofoppression, of chattel slavery.
And we tend to look at ourcircumstances today and say,
this is the worst we've ever hadit.
This is entirely untrue.
It is not factual.
And if we would, we're told inthe Quran.
(19:21):
The, the guidance of, of God,we're told that when you have an
unfortunate, I'm paraphrasinghere, but we're told that when
you're not when you're not doingwell, when your circumstances
seem to be circumscribed.
Look at the one who is worse offthan you.
Now that can be looking aroundyou because what does that do
(19:42):
when we look at those who areworse off?
We should what that should thatopens up a pathway to gratitude
Yes, what is if there's a personwho is worse off than I am Then
what does that say about mysituation?
It means that I have somehowsome extra set of resources,
whether it's in my spirit,whether it's in guidance that
(20:03):
I've been given, whether it's amaterial circumstance, there is
something in my circumstancesfor which I have to be grateful.
And a manifestation of thatgratitude is to use what I have
to, to reach the next level ofestablishment in the life of, of
the human being.
And so there, we can do that inmultiple ways.
(20:24):
One of the ways we can do it isto literally look around us.
We suffer here in the UnitedStates, you know, under poverty,
there's, you know there aresystems that are set up in a way
that we're more likely to fallvictim to certain behaviors.
All of those things are areality.
Now, take a look overseas, lookat realities where people are
literally starving to death andthen return that fresh set of
(20:49):
eyes to your circumstances andask, what, what do I have to be
grateful for?
And what can I do with thecircumstances that I have?
And none of that negatesreality.
It doesn't say that the thingsthat you've observed are not in
fact true, but what it does sayis how can I look at this now as
a grateful human being who hasbeen given some measure more.
(21:09):
than another group of people onthis planet.
And the other invitation itgives us as well is to not just
survey what's happening now, butto survey our same circumstances
throughout our history.
So compare yourself now to ourancestors, the freed men and
women who are just coming out ofof enslavement.
What were their circumstances?
(21:30):
What are our circumstances?
What do we have to be gratefulfor?
What can we learn from what theydid with their resources and how
we can we apply that now?
So I think that there is animpulse in us today.
I'll be quite frank.
It's quite disturbing becausewhat it does is it does not
allow for a hopeful, optimisticrealistic.
(21:51):
I won't say optimistic.
I will say a realistic andhopeful look at our
circumstances that allows us tosee that we are on a trajectory
from slavery.
Yes.
We came from a reality that isfar worse than where we are now.
So if we could come this far,then we can go that much
further.
Frank (22:09):
Yes.
Well, you're, you'rePresentation just now.
I couldn't have said that anybetter.
I would say to add to thatbecause we do have that this
notion in us there, there's atendency in us whether we're
conscious of it or not.
And we're not necessarily surewhat's fueling it.
And I would just assume thatit's usually the enemy, a man
who was influencing us to havethis Perspective, but normally
(22:32):
in this perspective, we would,we would say, and I'm
articulating with thatperspective would be that's
being influenced by the enemy.
We would tend to say that's,that's too idealistic.
Like what you're saying is topie in the sky.
Like, that's not, that's nottrue.
Although you did say that, youknow, we won't negate the
reality of things and we're, andwe're not negating it.
(22:54):
But often it comes with aresponsibility.
And as you said, we don't havean appreciation, a readily
appreciation to look at ourhistory and juxtapose our
circumstances today to what ourhistory was before.
I may mention in that roundtablediscussion about the womb itself
(23:14):
and how the womb is a confining.
Place for a child, a child can'tstretch out a child.
Can't, they can't freely movethe way they want to move.
And ultimately the womb isdesigned to place the child in a
place for the child to now haveits best life.
So when a child is forming inthe womb, the head is never at
the bottom.
It's always at the top or to theside, but when it comes time for
(23:38):
the time, when it comes time forthe child to now exit the womb,
because the womb has served itsfull purpose.
Then the child gets rotated andput in a situation where it can
now go to its next step.
So that imagery alone shouldhelp motivate us to understand
that absolutely yes, in 2024, weare going through some very
(23:59):
difficult times.
But no, no doubt about it atall, but these times were
designed to form us in a way forus to be able to handle and
manage the responsibility forwhat tomorrow has to bring for
us in every way, in every shape,in every form.
The fact that I wake up everymorning and look at the sun, you
(24:21):
know, there's a rapper who Iwon't call who it is, but he
said that it doesn't take allday to see the sun.
Those who can appreciate life,it doesn't take you all day to
see the sun.
The minute you notice it, whenyou look outside up, there it
is.
The child, the newborn child isanother day for us.
The sun rising is another day,which means there's another
(24:42):
chance for me to take anotherstep forward in the womb that
I'm currently in now to exit meout, to be able to manage my
responsibilities.
So that's, and some people wouldsay, Oh, that's too idealistic.
It's really not, we need to burnoff the impurities.
You know, God, God says himselfthat he created good and only
(25:03):
accepts the good.
So anything that's not good hasto be purified.
You know, we do things forpurity to be purified.
So that way in his eyes, the onewho's going to hold us
accountable for, for our life,we will become acceptable to
him, be acceptable.
So we have to do the same thingto one another.
We have to burn off theseimpurities that take us away
(25:24):
from the good life and the bestlife.
So.
Just wanted to use the referenceof the womb, use of reference of
the child.
And every day we see signs thattomorrow to actually today,
today gives us hope to be ableto deal with what we couldn't
deal with yesterday.
So we should be able to fix ourdetermination to understand
that.
Yes, we're in a bad situation,but yesterday was far worse than
(25:46):
today.
Faridah (25:46):
Yes, I, I, and I will, I just want to share this, you
know as As Muslims, we believethat the, the Quran, that the
Muhammad, the prophet prayersand peace be upon him came to
confirm what was revealedbefore, you know, and, and came
to clarify and shed light onwhat came before.
(26:06):
So in that tradition, we are tohold as truth, whatever came in
the scriptures before that isconsistent with the Quran.
And so what you just said aboutBeing hopeful, being successful
Jeremiah 29, 11 for, I know theplans I have for you declares
(26:28):
the Lord plans for welfare andnot for evil to give you a
future and a hope.
John 14 27.
Peace I leave with you.
My peace I give to you.
Not as the world gives do I giveto you.
Let not your hearts be troubled.
Neither let them be afraid.
And finally, Joshua 1 9.
(26:50):
Have I not commanded you bestrong and courageous?
Do not be frightened and do notbe dismayed.
For the Lord your God is withyou wherever you go.
God tells us in the Quran,surely, there's an emphasis in
the Arabic, it say verily,surely, certainly, the
(27:10):
believers.
will be successful.
That is a promise that comesfrom faithfulness.
It is a, an eyes wide open lookat the world.
It does not mean that we willnot have struggle.
It does not mean that thecircumstances of our lives are
not constrained at times.
It does not mean that the enemyof man is not alive and well and
(27:33):
doing his work to seduce us awayfrom our covenant with and to
into a covenant with him.
But what it does mean is thatthe disposition of the believer,
the one who accepts guidance asscripture as guidance, that the
believers have a hopefuldisposition.
(27:54):
And they know that whatever itis that we're looking at, we're
looking at it with a hopefulspirit, knowing that as you
ended, you said, we have to knowthat what we're doing is
pleasing to God.
So, and we know that we will beaccountable to our creator one
day.
So that type of security is notin what we, the outcome, we are
(28:17):
not able to secure the outcome.
Right.
God secures the outcome.
What we are responsible for isthe effort and the effort is
always rewarded and God promisesus a success.
So I just say that as a reminderto us that when we include with
that we marry that with thisunderstanding of man meaning
(28:37):
mind and woman being womb ofmind, it means that with this
hopeful disposition, now we arefree To set our rational
capacities, our creativecapacities, In service to the
creator using that guidance.
Now we're able to set thosecapacities to work in the
(28:59):
service of the benefit of meantto come up with solutions to
come up with strategies toaddress.
the situations in which we findourselves.
So a strategy there's somethingI, I think back to the idea of
education and how education canbe used to uplift and has always
been used in our journey up fromslavery to, to edify, to help us
(29:24):
understand who we are, to giveus knowledge of self always
grounded for the most part inknowledge of God.
This type of education was used.
To help us give us the truepicture of who we are.
And one of the things that Iwanted to say in light of even
Those young people that thatreally great robust conversation
that we had with those threegeneration of men in the same
(29:47):
family It helped us tounderstand or gave us a
perspective.
Yes on the importance of fathersin the lives of their children.
And that legacy that is not onlyleft by grandparents and
parents, grandfather to father,father to son, but also leaving
what was expressed there wasthat you have to leave something
(30:07):
for the next generation to workwith.
And so one of those things iswhat happens, what do we do when
we have a generation of youngpeople who, grew up or adults
now who grew up without thosethose fathers or father figures
in their life.
And now they have children.
So who, who are not benefitingfrom that legacy?
(30:30):
One of the programs that one ofthe, the, the invitations the
pathways that was opened up bythe honorable Elijah Muhammad
was the idea of boarding schoolsfor our, for our children.
So when you have an environment,a womb going back to that
pairing, right, that there's awomb and environment that
nurtures, that's the feminineenergy.
(30:51):
And then you have a discipline,a structure, a leadership that
balances that out.
That's the masculine energy orthe masculine.
I won't use energy.
That sounds kind of like, youknow.
Kind of a space talk sometimesto people, but the principle,
I'll use that word, themasculine and the feminine
principle when you put those twotogether, you're talking about
(31:14):
creating an environment that hasstructure and discipline in it.
And, and as you said, securesor, or gets rid of the
impurities.
Yeah.
So that innocence can beprotected.
So maybe one of those strategiesand we have to have plenty of
strategies, but the creativityand the, the, the thinking mind
can awaken to the fact thatperhaps we can create other
(31:36):
environments that would helpthose who do not have.
men in their lives, the fathersin their lives, or the father
figures, while we are stillbuilding toward the recognition
that it is necessary for us tobuild those strong family units.
So I just thought I'd put thatout there.
I don't know if you want toreflect on that or even add
something else to thatconversation.
Frank (31:57):
Well, in, in scripture and you've referenced this in,
in that particular episode ofthe podcast that it talks about
freeing the slave.
And that is the one who has beenbound by something that they
can't have their best life.
Depending on what that is, itcould be something physical,
emotional, spiritual, any typeof resource, a lack of resources
that doesn't allow them to havetheir best life, their burden,
(32:19):
their, their just differentcircumstances that doesn't give
them that free pathway, butthose who have the ability are
authorized and are commanded.
To free the slave that that'swhat we're supposed to do.
So charity itself is part ofthat.
So even if I'm in the mostneglectful stage in my life, I'm
(32:43):
still obligated to give charity.
That's all that obligation neverleaves me.
But, but that comes with a levelof intelligence as well.
So that means that I have tocreate ways or have to look for
ways, actively look for ways toput myself in position to give
charity.
Which means that I'm open toreceive charity.
Now receiving the charity isonly designed to get me back to
(33:05):
a point position where I can nowgive it.
So this part of our culture andthis part of our history and.
Well, not history, ourcircumstances that we have a lot
of deficiencies in the purity ofwhat we're aiming for and what
we're working for is ultimatelyto be able to give charity to
that situation for them tounderstand that you're not
(33:26):
designed to stay in thatsituation.
You're designed to come out ofthat.
And move into a bettercircumstance, hence our history
within slavery, you know,slavery, whether those who
oppressed us did this by designor not by design, it wasn't, we
weren't going to ever stay inthat condition.
(33:47):
It was beyond them.
Their time ended in being theoppressors of a group of people,
because that womb, if you wantto use that term, came to his
fulfillment in that sense, andthen something was birthed out
of that circumstance.
So ultimately, we're notdesigned to be in a deplorable
state.
We're not, we're designed tostand up as all human beings,
(34:08):
standing up in a conviction andin a recognition of who we are
as an individual and as a soul,and as an expression to
ultimately come into our bestlife.
So the obligation on those whohave.
Are to give to those who don't,and to never, and I want to
strongly emphasize this in everyendeavor that we embark upon, we
(34:32):
can never escape.
We should never leave out and weshould never not be mindful of
our responsibility to ourcreator, because in that
regardfulness is what upliftsour community and brings us to
the core.
Destination excellence that wealways talk about, that the soul
has always talked about.
(34:53):
That is the key for us to comeinto our best picture.
So whenever the woe is meattitude kind of comes and
becomes very pervasive in someof our establishments, then that
means those establishments haveleft their regardfulness for
their creator.
Faridah (35:09):
You know, the idea.
That we can somehow accomplishthe monumental task of taking
humanity, a human community,from slavery to establishment.
(35:31):
Without the mercy, the guidanceand the help of our creator is
one of the greatest I think,invitations to downfall that our
enemy has ever
Frank (35:50):
sold.
Faridah (35:52):
And so what you said is in fact where every one of these
conversations begins.
There, when you said that wecannot escape the
responsibility, we cannot escapethe responsibility to our
creator and then the creator isthe one who gives us an inborn
sense of responsibility forothers, for our fellow man.
You're right.
You know, it's a, it's a careand concern that is nurtured by
(36:14):
the family unit and that womb ofthe family while we are still
young to take care of oneanother, look out for your
brother, look out for yourlittle sister, you know, this is
a family act as one where onefist together these lessons for
the healthy family.
The healthy set of parents, weknow there are aberrations, but
the healthy human familyinculcates this type of, of a
(36:36):
sense of loyalty and support forone another from the time that
children are young.
So if we go back to the ideathat we, Oh, even as you said
that you should always be tryingto put yourself in a position to
give charity, that even when youare in a position where you need
to receive charity, even asmile.
Can be an act of charity.
So even when you don't havematerial wealth to give, you can
(37:00):
sustain and spark somebody'sspirit just by your countenance,
by your your outlook on theworld, which for the believer,
Is a positive outlook is ahopeful outlook is a realistic
outlook because we know that wedo nothing without the power of
the creator.
And so one thing I just wantedto say on this, and I'd like to
(37:20):
get your response on this fromyou, and that is when we are
when we're establishing oracknowledging.
The responsibility that we haveto one another, and we're
acknowledging that that much isasked of us.
What what comes to mind for meis the idea that the balance.
(37:42):
It was something that one of ourguests, our 23 year old guest,
my nephew, and he is newlymarried.
And you asked him about aquestion.
You asked him about You know,he, they do not have children
yet, but they hope to one day,God willing, you know, what are
his thoughts what has informedhim in terms of his
understanding of his role as afather, which you know, God
(38:03):
willing will happen for them oneday.
And I thought that his response,particularly as a 23 year old
was very thoughtful.
I mean, that's always who Ihsanhas been, but it was a, it was
an insightful response.
And he talked about how he hopedto to model for his children and
set a direction and orientationfor his children toward what is
(38:24):
good.
Yes.
That they be, that they aspireto what is good.
They understand and know what isgood.
And they and it's something thatis modeled for them by their
parents and for him inparticular in this conversation
by the father.
And so I think that we cannotget away from The importance of
the fact that when we're talkingabout leadership and leadership
(38:44):
comes from, remember, evenunderstanding the concept of man
means mind we're talking aboutthat in a masculine sense right
now in the sense of men, adulthuman males, but that is a, a
principle that is alive and wellin females as well, you know,
that, that thinking that beingthe mind and, and rational being
rational and reasoning.
But in particular, we're talkingabout the context of men and
(39:07):
fathers is that you have toaccept.
As we've spoken of in otherepisodes of this podcast, that
there is a good life, not a, andthere is a best life and the,
the parameters for that bestlife are laid down by the
creator.
They're not laid down by ourindividual desires.
We have, there's a wide birth.
(39:28):
There's an idea in.
Al Islam in the that the idea,the term halal means what is
permissible and that that iswide and big and that haram,
what is impermissible orunlawful, that that's, those
are, that's a particular set ofthings and it's, it's limited,
but the, the parameters forhalal are, are wide.
So within the parameters thatGod puts down for mankind on how
(39:53):
to achieve our best lives.
There are individuality.
There are, there are ways thatwe can individualize the
expression of those principlesthat God lays down as excellent
for mankind, but there areprinciples.
And I think one of the thingsthat we run into, one of the
issues we run into today is theidea of moral relativism.
(40:13):
or that we don't like to, whoare we to judge other people?
Right.
And one of the things thatHassan was saying is that I want
my children to know what is goodand I want them to gravitate
toward what is good.
And I want to model what isgood.
And I think the, the, the, Theconcept of male leadership, the
concept of fathers and manhoodin society cannot shy away from
(40:36):
there being a moral imperative.
And that that morality is notcreated by a man because he's a
man.
It is created and laid down bythe creator of all the worlds
that men and women have tofollow.
And so I just think it'simportant and I'd like you to
respond to that, that idea thatthere is a good and a bad.
There are, there is a best wayto do things.
(40:59):
There is a, a natural set ofprinciples by which the entire
universe operates that arecomplimentary.
And we have to be willing tosay, I love you, my brother, I
love you, my sister, but this isthe best life and this is what
I'm going to stand on.
And so I want to know what you,you know, how you would respond
to that, particularly in today's
Frank (41:20):
excellent question.
So when it's saying.
As that responded to thatquestion, I immediately
confirmed what he said, becausethat was the same answer that I
gave when my wife and I werestarting our life together and
was wondering what would be thedirection for our children.
(41:40):
Like we understood spirituallyand all the other things, but
what was it that we wanted togive to our children?
So that way it can consistentlynurture them to be who we wanted
them to be, to grow into the,well, They could never be what
we wanted them to be becausewe're very limited.
You know, God is the one whocreates us and gives us our
life.
So the idea of what we wanted tohave in the direction we wanted
(42:04):
them to go, we just wanted tomake sure we were going in that
direction, which was a good, thegood life direction.
So what Ehsan said was basicallywhat I confirmed.
So we had the same.
Same view in which I was veryhappy to hear to let me know
that it was a very natural.
That's a very naturaldisposition and want for a
father for his Children becausehe is the provider and the
(42:26):
protector for the family and forthe Children.
So you talk about this moral.
This moral compass, if you willin position of leadership,
leadership, having a moralcompass.
So I, I wanted to quickly about,and this adds to the question
you're at, you're asking me.
We, we recently lost John Amos,who most of us knew him as the
(42:49):
father James Evans on goodtimes.
Also, he played the adult KuntaKinte in the TV show roots.
But specifically the father forgood times and James on good
times was a moral character onthe show.
They kept the family in acertain direction.
He complimented his wife and hemade sure that his children was
(43:12):
not going to do anything.
That they weren't supposed to.
And if they did, they would haveto suffer the consequence.
And James did not hold back onmaking sure they understood what
the consequences of, of thembeing out of line.
So that sense of fatherhood andhaving that moral leadership for
a family sets the family on aroad for them to, to ultimately.
(43:36):
Ultimately have the best lifebecause it's predicated upon
that is predicated upon a, aregardfulness of your creator
and what he created in you.
And you are being obedient towhat is already in you to be
able to provide pathways tobring that out to its fullest,
to its fullest life.
(43:56):
So we talk about the best life.
You know, people say I'm livingmy best life versus living the
best life.
And, and the best life is auniversal principle.
The best life is a universalprinciple means that every group
of people in any way in theworld has that.
Principle for their, theirdetermination as well, but we
have to go back to gauge ourpicture of our best life against
(44:22):
the picture of the best life andhave to adjust accordingly.
We have to be open andaccountable and have some level
of accountability to understandthat we have to make whatever
necessary changes we can to makesure that our best life is in
alignment with the best life.
Because if not, then ultimately.
(44:42):
We'll just have chaos and, andall types of disorder and, and
people will now draw back wherewe were naturally.
Designed to be brought togetherin the life that we want to have
for ourselves.
So so that, that's kind of myunderstanding, excuse me, of
what, of what that looks like ofa father and wanting to have
(45:03):
good leadership in his family,but the leadership has to begin
in a moral sense.
And then from there.
You know, that's the guidelinefor us.
And that's the parameters forus.
Now, within that parameter,within that halal parameter, I
have the expanse of the earthand the heavens for me to
establish the life that I'mdesigned to establish because my
creator is the one who providedthese steps for me.
(45:25):
So I look at it in that sense.
As far as women are concernedand them having this ability to
have the level of strength andto have the level of thinking
processes that men have.
Absolutely.
Because we're from the samesoul.
So in referencing my niece andher putting the demands on me
and, and interesting, you saythat in a I have another niece
whose birthday is coming up soontoo, but that particular niece,
(45:48):
I tell her as she's developinginto the woman she's developing.
And I'd say from a man'sperspective that.
One of the more, one of the morebeautiful things that God has
ever created was a woman whosmiles now.
That's, that's a naturaldisposition in a woman.
So she's going to naturallysmile because she feels good.
But there are structures thatneeds to be around her to
(46:10):
protect that smile.
That's the innocence.
There has to be a structure toprotect the innocence and a
smiling woman represents theinnocence.
Nothing says more aboutinnocence than a woman who
smiles aside from a child, butwe're talking about adults.
If you see a woman who smilesall the time and have a very
beautiful, natural smile, thenthat's worth dying for.
(46:31):
That's something that men needto protect because it says
something about the soul beingin a good state and that what
she gives us charity will benothing but beneficial to
society on the whole.
Faridah (46:41):
Interesting that you mentioned smile a lot of times
and the, the role, how, again,our manifestations as men and
women, whether it's thethinking, the innocence, the
purity, the beauty, thestructure, the discipline, all
of those things interact withone another.
They compliment one another.
So you're talking about awoman's smile.
(47:02):
I remember, I remember when thethe Me Too movement took off
and, you know, it initiallybegan with you know,
conversation around sexualassault and impropriety and the
workplace and things of thatnature.
But one of the things thathappened was a conversation
that, that allowed women todiscuss what was happening to
(47:23):
them in the context of, youknow, walking down the street
and being cat called.
And, and, and one of theconversations that came up,
particularly from AfricanAmerican women, was that they
were always being, there weremen who would demand that they
smile.
Why are you looking so mean?
Why are you looking so mad?
Why don't you smile or smile?
(47:44):
You're too pretty not to besmiling.
And one of the things that Ithink is missing in that is that
what we're not understanding isthat the point that you just
made, that a woman smiling isprotected.
If a woman is and you know, thisis a generalization.
I'm not, you know, there aresome women who are just more
(48:05):
serious minded or not seriousminded because I think you can
be serious minded and love tosmile, but you know, God gives
us different personalities.
So, you know, I have somechildren who smile a lot and
some, you know, when you getthat smile, it is the most
beautiful thing in the world,but it might take a lot to get
there.
However, the idea that, that ourour sense of peace and wellbeing
(48:27):
in the world is tied up with thethe protection of our men is
something I think that we shouldconsider.
And perhaps, consider moredeeply the ramifications that
it's not about, you know ifsomeone asks you to smile,
they're asking to see somebeauty.
So I'm not looking at this as tome, that's not about toxic
(48:47):
masculinity or anything likethat.
It is an opportunity to reflecton the roles that we play in one
another's lives.
And that's not a You know,that's, that wasn't a vote for
the Me Too movement.
I think that's, there werecertain things that were
problematic, but what it does dois allow something, the light to
shine on issues that arehappening in our society, and
(49:08):
then to deal with it from a Godconscious perspective, with the
light of guidance to illuminatethis, not looking at, you know,
how, you know, women might feelabout this, but what is actual,
not looking at how men mightfeel about this, but what is
actually happening.
And then allowing God to guideus to the best iteration, to our
(49:30):
best lives.
And there is guidance.
But what I wanted to say aboutyou, you talked about authority
and and fatherhood about how,you know, the father, As an
example and how what Hassan saidresonated with you and that's
what you did when you and yourwife had your two sons, you
know, you considered that youknow, what am I doing?
What legacy am I leaving?
(49:50):
What do I want to cultivate inmy children?
And for both of you, theconclusion, the natural
conclusion is I want to do good.
I want to transmit good.
I want to be good and I wantthem to carry on what is good.
That is the natural proclivity.
It reminds me that there's a abiblical saying with which, if
you're an American, no matterwhat your religion is, I think
(50:11):
most Americans are familiar withthe biblical a quote from a
biblical passage, spare the rod,spoil the child.
That's right.
And, you know, For many of us,we grew up with it just being a
literal direct reference tospankings, you know, whippings,
you know, you know, spare therod, spoil the child.
That child didn't get beat.
So, you know, that's a whole, anentirely different conversation.
(50:34):
What I thought about is what therod represents or how it was
represented in scripture andwhat that actually means.
And when we think about a rod inscripture, whether it's Moses or
Aaron in the court of thePharaoh when they were throwing
down their rods, what does therod and, and throwing it against
the magicians and the men of, ofPharaoh's court.
(50:55):
And we're talking about the, Theschemes of Satan and the schemes
of men who have been seduced bySatan, and then the power that
is endued by men who areconscious and sincere and
seeking God's guidance and whathe can, the power and authority
he can imbue them with by virtueof them being servants of his.
And so the, the the rod is a,it's a natural symbol of
(51:17):
authority and almost all of theprophets throughout scripture,
many of them, or almost all ofthem were shepherds.
You know, so they, they ledtheir flocks.
They, they directed theirflocks.
They cared for their flocks.
Again, this nurturing element wesee again in the prophets, even
though they were men, we'relooking at that principle of
duality they're caring for.
(51:38):
Not only are they leading, butthey're caring for their flock.
So there's this element offemininity, the nurturing along
with the discipline and thestructure.
And so the rod was what theyused to direct and guide their
flock.
And so as a representation ofauthority, we can also see that
what was when Pharaoh'smagicians threw down their rod
(52:00):
and then Moses throws down hisrod.
It eventually does what itswallows up their, their rods.
That's the Quran story, right?
That's the, the, how we are toldthe story in the Quran.
What does that mean?
That means that how you, theestablishment, the authority by
which you rule has to be alignedwith God's authority in order
for it to swallow up the schemesof the world, to protect the
(52:22):
innocent, to have a chance ofbeing successful.
And so I think that invitationthat is given to men as fathers
when they, when they arehusbands and fathers is to rule
not by my will, not rule, butto, to lead.
To lead not by my will, but toalways reference back to the
guidance of God.
(52:43):
That's how we, that's how we goright.
And that's how we determine whatis good and bad, what is right
and wrong, what holds value forus and what needs to be
purified.
Frank (52:53):
Absolutely.
And that's why James Evans inthat deplorable circumstance
that they were in he made surehe did not sp a rod on those
folks.
So and they even had categoriesto all farmers.
They even had categories forthe, the types of beatings that
they would get.
But, you know, but that was it.
But it was more love thananything else.
So but the rod also represents adiscipline.
(53:13):
And a logic as well.
So you spoil, you spare thediscipline and you spare the
the, the logic, then anythingcan happen.
You spoil the job and what'sspoiling meaning that it's not
useful, it's not useful anymore.
So we don't want that.
The, the, the, the life is auseful life and the children are
signs for us that life comesanew.
(53:36):
For us.
So that's greater good andgreater use for us.
So absolutely.
Well, I'll tell you my mygrandmother, she didn't pull the
rod at all, but I love you.
I
Faridah (53:46):
would say that my I can say you know, not that we didn't
receive spankings, but Iremember the rod that my father
used being more the, the, thethe rod of, of logic and
reasoning with us, you know?
So it was, and it was alwaysfrom scripture was always the
guidance that comes from a lot.
(54:08):
I don't have any authorityexcept that it comes from God
because I'm inviting you to whatis good.
And so, yeah.
And so I remember when you saythat it was one of those things
that, and I know there it's beena source of comedy.
for the American sitcom for manydecades.
I don't know when itdisappeared, but you know, we
that the threat would be, I'mgoing to tell your father and
(54:31):
nobody wanted to get in trouble.
So it's like that idea that thisrot this discipline was going to
be used to measure the yourbehavior.
Are you aligning yourself with,with what is pleasing to God or
are you not?
And that's the function that youknow, daddy served.
Nobody wanted him to be calledat work.
Frank (54:50):
Yes, absolutely.
Well, Farda.
You know, with this conversationand the many views that we have
and the views that our audiencehas and wanting to get us to a
place where we can be verybeneficial to those who are
immediately around us and tothose who may just be down the
street next door to ourneighbors.
You know, the praise is for God,the praise is the knowledge
(55:11):
comes from him.
And he has given us intelligenceto be able to use this, to help
us get us to the best life.
And with that, we have moved.
One step closer to destinationexcellence.
Faridah (55:24):
Until next time, let us remain conscious of our creator,
of the sacred relationship ofparent and child and of the
family ties that bind us.
Subscribe to the podcast andcome back next time for a new
episode of The Family Ties.
Frank (55:40):
From Frank Abdul Shahid
Faridah (55:42):
and Farida Abdul Tawwab Brown.
Frank (55:46):
Peace, peace be
Faridah (55:49):
upon the family.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.