October 30, 2024 • 54 mins
In this episode "People of conscience and the 2024 election: Families in focus with special guest Imam Earl Abdulmalik Mohammed of the Muslim American Ministry for Human Salvation.", hosts Frank Abdul Shaheed & Faridah Abdul-Tawwab Brown discuss the significance of family and societal bonds with I mam Earl Abdulmalik Mohammed. Imam Mohammed, a prominent author and humanitarian, talks about the principles of 'binding and engagement' derived from the Qur'an, and how these principles contribute to building cohesive and resilient communities. The conversation also covers how the ethical army can navigate current political landscapes, with a focus on the humanitarian crisis in Palestine and ethical civic engagement. Imam Mohammed further delves into the importance of female leadership in society and the necessity of embracing diversity to achieve true societal progress.
00:00 Welcome to The Family Ties
00:52 Introducing Our Special Guest
03:27 The Principle of Binding and Engagement
11:05 Challenges Facing Families Today
20:13 The Ethical Army and Civic Responsibility
29:43 Global Struggles and Human Dignity
48:23 Female Leadership and Society
52:01 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
This podcast is about family life as a means to address current problems in American society. A scripture based African American perspective.
Welcome to The Family Ties, a Prescription for Society.
Through this experience we invite you to join us in an exploration of the concept of family ties as a prescription for society.
YOUR HOSTS: Frank Abdul Shaheed &
Faridah Abdul-Tawwab Brown
This episode was edited by Darryl D Anderson of AMG - Ambassador Media Group visit https://www.ambassador-mediagroup.com/
__________________________________
Music Credit
Back Home by Ghostrifter Official | https://soundcloud.com/ghostrifter-official
Music promoted by https://www.free-stock-music.com
Creative Commons / Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International (CC BY-SA 4.0)
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/
Copyright 2024
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Frank (00:16):
Peace be upon the family as we welcome you to another
experience of The Family Ties, aprescription for society.
I am your co host, Frank AbdulShahid.
Faridah (00:27):
And I am your co host, Farida Abdul Tawab Brown.
Before we get started, don'tforget to subscribe so you can
stay up to date and get all thelatest episodes.
Frank (00:36):
Welcome back, Farida, to a I'm feeling a wonderful
episode that we're about torecord tonight.
Want to know whether or not youare doing well and how are you?
Are you and your family?
Faridah (00:48):
Oh, we are doing wonderfully.
And I, too, am excited aboutthis episode.
We have a very special guest.
Yes.
And I Can't wait to hear fromhim to speak on some very
important topics at this momentin time.
Frank (01:00):
Yes.
Our special guests on ourpodcast, and we are very honored
to have him.
He is a father, a husband, abusinessman.
An author and a humanitarian, hewas appointed by Imam WD
Muhammad, who is the son of theHonorable Elijah Muhammad, the
former leader of the nation ofIslam as his representative and
(01:22):
a special assistant to hisministry.
In that role, he produced amedia publication known as
ocular magazine, focusing on theworks of Imam WD Muhammad's
ministry.
He was chiefly instrumental inarranging the historical
meeting.
Between Imam WD Muhammad andPope John Paul, the second at
(01:43):
the Vatican, he authored twobooks and in succeeding the
tradition of what Imam Muhammadhas established, he is the
leader of the Muslim Americanministry for human salvation.
I will say what the HonorableImam WD Muhammad has said about
him.
He says, and I quote the Imam, Ihave to acknowledge the man who
(02:04):
has done more than any otherperson to help me get the
correct picture of Muslims andImam WD Muhammad to the public
of America and to the world.
My son, Earl Abdul MalikMuhammad, I thank God for him.
Welcome Imam Earl Abdul MalikMuhammad and peace be upon you.
And welcome to our Family TiesPrescription for Society
(02:27):
episode.
Mohammed (02:28):
I'm honored to be with you.
Peace, peace be upon you and ourhonorable sister Farida and our
honorable audience.
Frank (02:38):
It's wonderful to have you brother Imam.
In this podcast, we've mentionedThe public in the introduction
of our honorable guest and theworks in the public we have
given special attention in thispodcast to how public behavior
and establishments shouldpresent itself as it serves the
collect collective interest ofhome, the place where the sacred
(03:02):
family ties and are born andnurtured.
In the home, so brother, you,ma'am, in this particular
podcast, we would like to askyou some very, I think, poignant
questions that our audience inthe world wants to know, want to
have ideas and want to have youropinion on how we should address
(03:24):
the issues that affect thesefamilies, the family ties.
You have written on theprinciple of binding and
engagement in your book,democracy, civil, civic virtue,
and Islam the Muslim Americanjihad against extremism.
This is a principle thatpromotes the construction of
bonds of trust, which I quote,presage.
(03:47):
And formation and solidificationof relationships, which are
intended to secure vital andcommon interest, serving the
support of the best conditionsfor human life in society, the
sacred family ties.
Can you can you speak on how thebonds of this relationship
builds and resurrects the modelcommunity?
Mohammed (04:10):
Yes, thank you.
The principle, uh, binding andengagement, um, comes from a
verse in the Qur'an and, uh, inparticular, uh, focuses a word,
a word in, uh, the Qur'an Uh,that means, uh, to tie together.
(04:38):
And um, uh, in the Muslim world,there's an organization called
Rabita, it's, um, known asMuslim world, Muslim world
league, um, in the circles ofdiplomatic, uh, activity in the
(05:05):
United Nations and, and, uh,world bodies, um, associated
with.
The interest to improve thecondition of man on the earth.
And so this, uh, uh,organization takes the name
Rabota, which is from a wordthat's in the Quran that
describes what, uh, what youhave quoted from the book, uh,
(05:28):
that, uh, we wrote some yearsago.
And um, it is just what, what,uh, what you quoted, um, a
principle.
that governs and encourages the,uh, necessary relationships that
(05:51):
must exist, um, cohesive bondsin structures of society that
must exist for, uh, to support,uh, and we might even say
protect or even guarantee theproper development in, in human
(06:14):
society, um, as God intended.
As God intended, uh, man, human,human beings, uh, will have a
picture of, uh, where emphasisshould be placed.
And they will be falling shortsometimes, you know, they'll be
making errors and, uh, the, uh,uh, guidance from God is a
(06:40):
correction and, uh, opportunityfor reaffirmation and, uh, uh,
redirection for the focus thathuman life should have, human
beings should have andleadership, um, human community
leadership should have.
So this is, um, uh, a vitalconcern, and it's a, it's a, it
(07:06):
has been, and it was, a strategyof, uh, Imam W.
Deen Muhammad.
He gave it to me, he, he, heintroduced it to me, um, as a,
as a, uh, major concern, butalso a strategy.
In other words, it should be astrategy.
It should be something we'reworking for, um, on a constant
(07:27):
basis.
Uh, but it's a principle that,um, kind of, uh, introduces and
defines our interests.
as a Muslim body or Muslimcommunity in America.
So the Muslim community inAmerica should not be perceiving
itself as isolated from thegeneral condition of the
(07:50):
society.
If the Muslim community is doingwell, then, uh, whatever is
serving is good health and gooddevelopment.
It should want to share thatwith the, General membership,
uh, and leadership in, in thesociety, even if it be non
Muslim.
(08:11):
Yes.
And in this case, in that case,in our case in America, we are a
minority, a small minority ascompared to the general
population of the citizens ofAmerica.
The Muslim population is aminority.
So, um, our interest is ageneral interest.
(08:33):
That all people, all Muslimsshould have, but it's also a,
um, uh, common interest, um, andit's, uh, an interest that we
have.
Uh, that is a strategy tointroduce our life and what we
(08:55):
have as influences for successin our life, um, into the
general society.
Frank (09:03):
Yes, sir.
So, you know, as we, to supportwhat you have said, what we have
done on this podcast is to wantto strongly.
Urge and strongly reinforcethose bonds and what the bonds
have written in them to to drivethese relationships to have the
best possible life for all ofhumanity these, these sacred
(09:26):
bonds.
And we.
I have stressed how much thefamily starts that process of
welcoming to society, what isrole and responsibility should
be to direct itself and tosupport what the family life has
brought into itself.
So thank you, brother, man, forthat.
Farida, do you have any followup for that?
Faridah (09:46):
I do.
Thank you so much again forjoining us on the program.
So you, you mentioned thebinding and engagement and you
spoke about this being astrategy for engaging the
society.
And when I hear those two words,binding and engagement, they
bring many things to mind.
But one of which is the when youlook at the the primary elements
of a family unit.
(10:07):
And you look at the, the, themother or the female principle
in, in the family and the fatherand the male principle in the
family, the binding could almostseems to me to relate to the,
the nurturing element, whatholds the family together, that
love and nurturing and clearkind of mother wit and common
sense that holds the family unitand the engagement speaks to the
(10:31):
leadership.
The aspect of leadership in thefamily, which speaks to the
father's role or the male rolein the family.
And then of course, this podcastpointing us to the family as a
prescription allows us to seethis as, as a platform or
foundation upon which the restof society is built.
built.
So going back again to thatbinding and engagement that that
(10:53):
those complimentary roles thatare modeled first in the family
unit and that we then find inincreasing levels and more
increasingly sophisticatedlevels with greater
responsibility.
Can you speak to a little bit toadvice that you have on how
families can resist the powerfulmovements in society that are
(11:14):
designed to weaken families?
So you know, just looking atthose two ideas and, and how
they first begin within the wombof the family, but they are
built upon in larger society.
And we see that there are, arereally powerful movements.
That are designed to weakenthem.
What advice do you have for ourlisteners on how we might begin
combating those?
Mohammed (11:36):
If we look at, uh, the, uh, and, and God, he
focuses our attention, um, onthe development of life, human
life, and, uh, the stages ofhuman life and, um, uh, every
(11:59):
stage, uh, and the processitself is to bring about.
a, uh, structure, which is ahuman life as a structure.
And, um, uh, it is to, um, existin recognition of the
(12:31):
development, Of similar or, um,complimenting human life.
In other words, this processthat is described in scripture,
in the Qur'an in particular, isheld in common.
(12:55):
It is something that is a sharedprocess.
And all human life, um,experiences, uh, this as
necessary for development.
That suggests cooperation thatsuggests common recognition and,
(13:20):
uh, the necessary, uh,prerequisite for the, um,
initial development of life isthe bonding of like individuals.
(13:44):
but also, uh, dissimilar.
They are like, but dissimilar.
The bonding of male and female.
They're human, not the same.
ALL (14:03):
Okay.
Mohammed (14:03):
And, um, uh, the finding of the common area is
the prerequisite for thedevelopment of the healthy, uh,
offspring.
There has to be a compromise.
(14:24):
It has to be an accommodation,um, uh, and you might, it might,
you might look at it and say,well, the male is the dominant.
Not necessarily, not necessarilyin some instances, and it could
be interpreted that way, but notnecessarily, um, or you could
(14:49):
say the male, the female is therecessive.
Not necessarily, notnecessarily.
The way that, uh, Scripturepresents it.
Is that there arecharacteristics that may have
female gender, but are seen inboth males and females.
(15:12):
Yes.
There are characteristics thatmay have male gender, but they
are acknowledged in males andfemales.
So, the Quran says, for example,the term that is used to
describe a male, for example, Isgiven in the Quran as also, uh,
(15:38):
a, um, uh, a characteristic ora, um, description of a certain
kind of female.
So, so that says that the termthat's used for male is not just
speaking of, um, uh, a man or amale, uh, fizzy physiologically,
but it's talking about an urgethat can be described.
(16:00):
Okay.
Or is characterized in as male.
Um, but it's not just.
A property of males.
So the term itself, just to be,you know, I know some people
they listen and they wanttechnical, technical things, you
know?
Frank (16:14):
Yes, sir.
Mohammed (16:15):
So the term is kar uh, but, uh, the Quran says that
which is female, feminine,feminine, so it says, it means
it, it, it, it, it, it, it, itprovides a richness to the
understanding of the word.
So it, it doesn't mean.
Uh, a male or a man, it means athinking human that is both male
(16:40):
and female, female.
So, um, uh, in these processesis the necessary, um, uh, or, or
is a description of the bonding.
Uh, and then you have, um, whatis developed, what comes from
(17:02):
the bonding and what comes fromthe bonding is a healthy human.
a healthy human condition, um,that goes through the stages of
development.
And in those stages ofdevelopment are also instructive
lessons about the constructionor the proper construction or
healthy construction of humansociety.
(17:24):
So, um, uh, human society cannotexist in the way that God
intended, which Um, speaks tothe success of human existence,
um, without the, uh, healthyfunction of like, but dissimilar
(17:50):
entities, they must find area ofaccommodation and compromise.
And in that finding, or that isthe necessary movement in those
like, but dissimilar entities,For the construction or the
(18:11):
beginning processes of theconstruction of a healthy human
condition.
So we don't expect that, um,all, all the circumstances in
society are going to favor onegroup that is always going to be
a like situation.
There are also dissimilarsituations that must be
(18:34):
addressed, and human life hasbeen constructed in a way to
accommodate and compromise forthose interests.
And um, uh, to the, to theextent that we, um, appreciate
that as a process.
We can see the necessity for,for example, for female coming
(19:01):
into high political offices.
Mm.
If we follow this logic, if wefollow this logic, we can see
the necessity for, uh, a varietyof ethnic groups.
rising in influence.
We can see the necessity forthat because we have likeness
but dissimilarity at the sametime operating in the interest
(19:25):
to strengthen, uh, human societyand human condition.
Faridah (19:30):
Wow.
That, that was A really helpfulexposition of that idea,
particularly in this immediatepolitical moment in which we
exist, where so many parties andgroups in our society are
fighting to be recognized and totake no prisoners.
They want all or nothing at thesame time.
And what you're speaking, thesewords of accommodation and, and
(19:52):
these types of words are lookedat disfavorably or unfavorably
in today's political climate.
And so I, I appreciate thatconversation and I just like
Frank, if you, if you don't mindme moving on to this other
question I think is, is veryimportant here.
And I, it speaks to our civicresponsibility in this
particular moment.
(20:13):
And so I would like to know howcan people of conscience, you
know, members of an ethicalarmy, if you will, you know,
this is a term that you havebegun to, to share with us and
how will they operate within thepower structure of a country
like America.
with particular attention paidto this idea of accommodation
(20:33):
and not always having everythingyou want in a particular moment.
But how might the people ofconscience operate within this
specific political context?
Mohammed (20:44):
There's no doubt that the founders of America Had the
focus on a human type and, um,they wanted that America be in
support of the best possibledevelopment of that type.
(21:11):
The type that they saw, uh, uh,hope that, uh, America would be
America as a society wouldaccommodate is the type that's
focused in scripture.
And, um, uh, they struggled, um,because of their own social and,
(21:40):
uh, ethnic experiences, theystruggled, um, uh, in this
process.
Um, and that's what is meant bythe accommodation that they made
for that struggle.
That is what is meant in theirlanguage by the terminology or
phrasing more perfect union.
They knew it was a struggle isnot going to be easy because you
(22:04):
have, um, uh, homogenoussocieties competing for power on
the earth in the name of theirhomogenous interests.
But America, uh, founders Theywanted, they made it known that
they searched the earth forprinciples.
(22:28):
Uh uh, they put it in theirsymbolism, they put it in their
iconography.
They put it in their language,uh, straight a language to
define, um, their wanting to beacknowledged.
As a people distinguished fromEngland, they said that a man.
(22:51):
is created equal.
So all right, right, right,right there.
They're acknowledging that thereare inequalities and those
inequalities are characterizedin different categories.
But they're saying that in spiteof these categories, humans the
(23:15):
focus on this of this society ison the common human type that it
is Endowed by its creator thatit has been fashioned It has
been designed which suggests ithas purpose that it has been
endowed by its creator to havean appetite to Recognize that it
(23:44):
should be respected.
It should be respected so thatmeans that the society must hold
it up the society itself mustexist to hold it up and That Uh,
that entity should alsocontribute to conditions to hold
up that life or to promote thatlife, to promote that picture.
(24:09):
So, um, the holy book of Muslimssays.
That God created a picture for,uh, human life and that from
that picture, he created manypictures.
(24:31):
Mm.
Yes, sir.
And he says, uh, God says in theQuran that the many pictures, he
created them all beautiful andexcellent.
Um, so what America in this, uh,struggle presents is.
(25:02):
An attempt to focus the commonpicture with the support of the
many pictures, and it's astruggle.
And, uh, uh, in, in, in someperiods of Americans, his
America's history, uh, it has,uh, failed miserably in, um,
(25:26):
acknowledging the degree ofrespect that it should have for
the many pictures.
Um, and in other, in othermoments in America's history, it
has triumphed.
in its picture, in its embrace.
The struggle of it is the, the,um, uh, concern of every nation
(25:49):
on this earth.
Every society on this earthfocuses America as the sacred
discussion on what is thecorrect picture of human life
and how it should be supported.
So the ethical army As I havementioned, used that term, uh,
(26:12):
in repeating, uh, the, uh, uh,creation of that term.
I don't know that he would saythat he created the term, but
certainly he used the term anddefined it for us.
And that's Imam WD Muhammad, thelate leader of our community,
late leader of Muslims inAmerica.
The son of the honorable ElijahMuhammad, uh, he's the one that
(26:33):
used that term and made it knownand taught the meaning of it to
us and to me.
And um, it refers to, uh, apopulation that is not defined
necessarily by a religiousidentity.
or any particular ethnicidentity or racial identity, but
(26:54):
is defined by, um, the evolutionin thinking from a basic
morality to respect human lifeto a sophisticated, uh,
appreciation for the value ofdiversity, uh, and to, uh, uh,
lock arms, stand in ranks, uh,as, uh, soldiers.
(27:22):
Uh, in the cause of everythingthat supports what is necessary
to advance society, even if itmeans to, um, condemn or to, uh,
(27:42):
punish a moment in history wherethe best possible conditions are
being neglected and support fromthe leadership to advance those
conditions is being abandoned.
Yes.
That they are prepared to standeven, uh, in a time that, um,
(28:04):
like a war, uh, difficult, uh,and, and, um, um, soul stirring,
uh, and, uh, not desiredcondition.
War is not a desired condition,but they're ethical.
The army is, is prepared todefend the most important and
(28:29):
sacred interests on behalf ofthe vision for Human life in its
establishment in the picturethat the founders had that
complies with what God hasestablished as truth about the
destiny of human society.
Frank (28:48):
Yes, sir.
And we say the praises for God.
Absolutely.
And you mentioned leadership inthis in your answer and war.
Oftentimes is a comp commentaryon leadership.
You know, we see war often asincursion.
We see war as shocking.
The senses of the public isoften a denial of peace and
(29:08):
prosperity.
And it more than anything elsetests the bonds of trust amongst
the people.
So as we see in the, currentlyin the world now how the world
is basically a a tinderbox ofthe possibility of a complete
explosion and just completelydestabilization of the human
family throughout the world.
(29:29):
You know, young people, peopleof faith have been the vanguard
of the movement to callattention to the oppression and
destruction facing populationsaround the world.
You know, what should people ofconscience who are troubled by
death and destruction.
Of the Palestinian peoplespecifically, but people
suffering all throughout theworld consider when evaluating
(29:50):
presidential candidates giventhe treaty obligation of the
United States of America.
You know, how should they seetheir involvement in, in
addressing those issues?
Mohammed (30:03):
Like many, like many issues, uh, it said one, it said
in one frame, very complicated,very complex.
Uh, very detailed and then inanother frame, very simple, very
straightforward, um, dependingon who's presenting the argument
(30:26):
or what side of the argument isbeing presented.
Um, in my mind, in my mind, andI'm in, uh, uh, supported in
this understanding from Islamicsentiments.
(30:47):
Uh, and I'm sure that theChristian, uh, listeners of your
program, they would, uh, accept,uh, that they wouldn't want to
see, nor would we want, norwould Muslims want to see a
Christian population, uh, beingmistreated.
We wouldn't want to seeChristians neglect them, neglect
(31:10):
the Christian population that'sbeing mistreated.
So Muslims, uh, we have strong.
Uh, social bonds, and we don'twant to see Muslim populations
mistreated.
That's one area, uh, from whereI'm coming from in terms of
focusing attention on thestruggle of the Palestinian
(31:34):
people, but, uh, in my embraceof the Palestinian struggle as a
Muslim.
And identifying the majority ofthe Palestinian people as
Muslims.
I'm also aware that there's aminority of Palestinians that
are Christians.
Frank (31:53):
Yes, sir.
Mohammed (31:55):
Okay, that transcends Muslim identity.
All right.
Um, I'm also aware that, uh,the, there is a difference in
character of The Israeligovernment that has, uh, war
(32:25):
machine tendencies andmentality, that there's a
difference in character betweenthat government and its people.
And that that government is notnecessarily representing the,
(32:46):
uh, general interests of theIsraeli people.
Frank (32:53):
Yes, sir.
Mohammed (32:55):
Okay.
So when I look at the situationthere, I'm not seeing it only as
an issue with regard to Muslimsor even Palestinians In fact
that may not be the mostcompelling Reason for our
(33:25):
attention the most compellingreason for our attention is the
That this is a human communityand the, uh, the reminder that
we have as Muslims is themeaning of the sacred places,
(33:46):
uh, that are associated with thePalestinian people and the
Jewish people and the Christianpeople in Jerusalem, the whole
world in terms of, uh, thefollowing of these great
religions have as a focus, thatarea of the world is the focus
on some structure of.
(34:09):
Of of stone and and mortarbuildings.
No, those buildings have nomeaning whatsoever.
The the the focus is onsomething existing in the
constitution of human life thatgets our attention.
Frank (34:31):
Yes,
Mohammed (34:32):
sir.
That's what gets our attentionthere.
The some some of the greatleaders and teachers of the
moral interests that isnecessary, uplift and progress
human society is, uh, isassociated with that geography.
(34:52):
So those buildings, uh, have,have, uh, very little
importance, but the human lifehas, um, primary importance and
concern.
And so it represents for us, anopportunity to address the
(35:13):
condition of human life on thisearth.
So the Palestinian issue is, um,in value the same as the issue
of the, uh, people of, uh, SouthSudan, uh, that have been
(35:37):
victimized the, uh, people of,uh, Myanmar.
Yes.
that have been victimized, thepeople of, um, the Congo that
have been victimized.
But, uh, even, even, even theassault upon the, the, um,
(35:59):
Ukrainians, um, in the focus of,of the, the, the global society,
what we are seeing is attentionon the Palestinian struggle.
The Palestinian struggle is notseparated in importance.
(36:22):
Uh, from all of these otherstruggles because fundamentally
we're talking about neglect and,uh, um, ritualized attempts to
separate human communities.
from what God intended for themto be enriched by.
(36:46):
That's what we are seeing.
And so we focus the attention onthe Palestinian, but it's, it's
commentary on, on the conditionof man in an oppressed state by
oppressors that want to separatehuman life from what God
entitled it to have.
Everything God created, he gaveto the human family, not one
(37:08):
group within the human family.
All of us.
are to have access to all thebenefits that God created.
And certainly we have toqualify.
to use those resources.
We have to respect the scienceof those resources.
But just because a community isnot as far along as another one
(37:32):
in understanding the proper usesof resources doesn't justify
their mistreatment.
In fact, if one group had isfurther along the road in terms
of understanding of howresources should be used, Their
obligation as members in thehuman family is to invite that
(37:53):
group that has not evolved asfar to share in responsibility
and to grow in understanding ofhow to appreciate this process.
That's the obligation that weshould have.
And the rest of the worldwitnessing these things promote
and support that process.
Yes, sir.
Absolutely.
Faridah (38:12):
So I actually have a follow up to that if you don't
mind.
And that is given the Theprinciple of the ethical army
how they operate when it may bethe case that leadership has
abandoned these principles ofpromotion of human dignity.
And then we wed that in theinterest particularly of the
(38:33):
2024 presidential election.
What would you what advice mightyou have in terms of What
strategy to pursue for people ofconscious conscience for members
of this ethical army, Muslims,Christians, Jews, people of good
faith who are concerned abouthuman dignity and fighting
(38:53):
oppression.
What would you say in terms ofhow we best operate when it
seems as if leadership hasabandoned those principles when
we have treaty obligations inplace, let's say with the a
state that is currentlyfunctioning in Israel you know,
as a war machine, how do we bestmaneuver to get an outcome that
(39:15):
might be helpful?
And I say that in lightparticularly of this election,
we have one candidate who ispromoting policies that seem to
be very authoritarian in nature,and they may in fact
destabilize.
our society in, in a manner thatwe won't have space to maneuver
and critique and boycott and,and take other actions.
(39:39):
And then you have that pittedagainst another candidate who,
you know, speaks about justice,but for some people looking at
this through the lens of notjust emotion, but of, of genuine
concern for humanity, they'reseeing, well, I don't see that
this person is that different.
Could you give us some insight?
scriptural insight on how peopleof conscience might navigate
(40:02):
this choice and, and maybe notsecure an outcome, but put the
best effort forward to, to beable to work toward that common
good.
Mohammed (40:15):
Yeah, you know, um, there's never been a time in
human society, in the history ofhuman society, where all the
conditions favor this necessaryor this, um, the desired
progress.
All the conditions never favorthe desired progress.
Yeah.
Um, There's always strugglebecause this is not heaven.
(40:40):
This is the world.
This is earth.
Faridah (40:42):
And,
Mohammed (40:43):
um, the nature of human life is struggle.
Even the way that, uh, humanlife comes into the world.
Um, and we described the beautyof the, the, uh, process, the
bonding of the similar or thelike and dissimilar who have
(41:04):
reconciled differences.
Um, symbolically reconcileddifferences in order to bring
about that new life, even, evenupon that triumph, which, you
know, the, the relationshipbetween male and female coming
together to produce that newlife, even in that triumph,
(41:24):
still the new life that comesafter that beautiful
development.
In the process of it coming intothe world, it struggles and it
struggles to such an extent thatits own life is at risk and the
mother's life is at risk.
(41:46):
So, um, what is the, what, whatis, uh, to be understood from
this?
Obviously, this is what Godintended.
We come into our existence ashuman beings, um, with attention
on the necessity of struggle,difficulty.
(42:07):
And, um, uh, that, uh, what weachieve is valued because it has
been earned.
One great leader, uh, from theAfrican American people, uh, Dr.
Martin Luther King, he said thatAmerica, and he was speaking not
(42:32):
necessarily of the people, butof the leadership, need, needed
a reevaluation and reformationof values.
Yes.
Yes.
Um, I think that that's true inevery age.
That's true in every age and,uh, every, um, uh, period of
(42:55):
change and leadership insociety.
And, uh, um, the, the parents ofthe new, the new life that comes
into the world, uh, theycooperate with one another in
spite of their dissimilarity andintroduce as a support for that
(43:21):
new life.
A set of values and, um, uh, thevalues that they introduced that
new life to may be differentfrom the values that the next
door neighbor has introducedtheir new life to.
They insist on it.
They don't sit there.
They insist on it to the extentthat they dress their new child
(43:45):
in those values.
They clothes their new child inthose values.
And, um, that new child istaught to stand in, in, uh, um,
in, um, recognition.
of those values.
So, you know, such is themovement in, uh, human
(44:09):
communities when we are facedwith, uh, existential,
existential threats.
Um, we have to believe in, uh,the, the, uh, interest of God in
human society and his favoringof those, those, uh, that
(44:31):
representation, um, advocatesand stands for the principles
and values.
That he has established for manto grow upon.
So what choice do we have exceptthat we identify those values,
that we stand for those values,that we promote those values,
(44:53):
that we argue the necessity toembrace those values, uh, even
in the face of powerful leadersand, um, uh, be prepared to
lose, um, uh, lose the stand orlose the, uh, uh, uh, in the
(45:16):
altercation or lose in thebattle.
Be prepared.
Stand with such, um, support anddignity and commitment that it
influence others who arewitnessing that stand and they
stand and are turned and, and,and they themselves have a
revolution or reformation oftheir own values and that they
(45:39):
change in favor of what isproper.
So, yeah, even when societylooks bleak, if you have one
entity, it could be anindividual or it could be an
individual group that stands forwhat right, what is right.
(46:01):
Eventually, society will conformto what is right.
And that has been the history ofhuman society.
Tyrants.
And despots have, have, havecome into power for a brief
time, but eventually they'reovercome by good.
(46:22):
Their rule is limited andrelatively speaking, very brief.
And in some cases, When theycome into power, uh, it
galvanizes that movement to, to,uh, review and to re evaluate
and to, uh, revolution, uh, uh,uh, overturn lesser values for
(46:49):
what is greater in the interestsof the people.
The progress of human life orthe progress of, um, uh, the
human condition, the improvementof the human condition.
So I, I don't, you know, Americain the way that it has been
established, uh, in spite of,uh, its troubles in various
(47:09):
periods, uh, I never lose hope.
That America will come to theright conclusion because America
has been established uponrecognition of that human person
and, um, God, uh, will supportand favor.
And what I mean by that, Godwill support and favor the
people of God who know what thatpicture is.
(47:34):
They will never stop working inthe interest to serve the
picture that God wants for humansociety and Therefore they will
never be defeated There alwaysbe a powerful influence Yes, sir
Frank (47:53):
And as we are hearing in Farada's background the call the
call to purpose the call toobedience the call to
responsibility for our Yousacredness of the human
individual and that humanindividuals picture in the
collective state of what humanand mankind was created for for
(48:14):
good leadership and goodestablishments.
Absolutely.
Faridah (48:19):
Yeah.
And if I might just add, I wantto slip in a tiny little
question.
I'm not sure you'll have achance to answer it, but you did
mention briefly in the in anearlier response you mentioned
foregrounding or putting intothe public picture the, the
female leadership.
And of course we can read thatas, you know, current candidacy.
(48:40):
We have two candidates runningfor the office of president.
Who are women, but there alsoseem to be some issues at play
in the society that sometimespeople of faith tend to see in a
black and white way.
And I think that you might offerus some insight into how people
of conscience might look at thequestion of, of What, what is
(49:02):
happening in a society and whatis reflected when we look at
female leadership and theability of women to make good
decisions for not forthemselves, but for the well
being of the entire family andultimately of the society.
Mohammed (49:18):
Well, I'll tell you.
I put it like this.
I don't, I hope that I don'toffend anyone in our honorable
audience.
Um, that's not my intent, but,um, how many white males have we
had president of the UnitedStates?
(49:40):
I don't know what the number is,but it's the vast majority.
Okay.
It is an overwhelming majority.
Only one time it wasn't a whitemale.
Faridah (49:47):
Yeah.
Mohammed (49:48):
So, so I think that, um, and how many females.
None.
So, you know, um, uh, commonsense would say that if the
population of the society ismade up of various persons with
different experiences, that atsome point they would rise, uh,
(50:09):
to become persons in thatpopulation who are other than
the majority would rise tobecome qualified To address the
needs of the society and, um,that if the society has found
itself to be troubled, that, uh,uh, common sense would say,
(50:32):
let's look at somethingdifferent.
Let's, uh, let's, let'saccommodate and make an, let's,
let's, uh, open our minds toaccommodate something different
and, um, Uh, perhaps, uh, uh,Ms.
Harris, the vice president,maybe she has thinking that, uh,
(50:53):
is similar to those thatpreceded her, you know, but, um,
she certainly comes frominfluences.
That are sharply different fromthe leaders, uh, those who have
been in that office thatpreceded her.
She comes from influences thatare sharply different.
So um, uh, common sense justsays to me that in
(51:20):
representation of thecontribution that women, um, are
guaranteed as citizens of theAmerican society to make.
In the public office and also,uh, the, uh, opportunity that is
given to all different ethnicgroups in America to make their
(51:43):
contribution that she is the,uh, uh, the, um, intersection of
those interests.
And, um, for that reason byitself, she should be given not
just consideration, but support.
Faridah (52:01):
Well, that seems to be as much as we would like to
extend this interview and thisconversation beyond the the
boundaries of, of the time thatwe have.
We would love to invite youback, Imam Abdul Malik Mohammed.
It has been a pleasure.
It has been enlightening.
We thank you for joining us onthe program.
And we pray that you would findit in your time to, to come back
(52:24):
and join us again.
Thank you.
Mohammed (52:26):
It'd be my great pleasure.
I'm happy to, to join you onthis program and I pray for the
success, continued success ofyour, your program.
Faridah (52:39):
Thank you.
So for our listeners, our guestImam Earl Abdul Malik Mohammed
is the author of two books,Democracy, Civic Virtue and
Islam, the Muslim American JihadAgainst Extremism and On Nature
and Nations.
The Muslim American Message forHumanity in the Day of Religion.
Both books can be purchased atwww.
(53:00):
elamineprioritydistributors.
com.
That's E L A M I Nprioritydistributors.
com.
You can learn more about hiswork for the promotion of human
dignity at www.
muslimamericanministry.
com.
And finally, you can also findmore of his commentary at www.
(53:24):
eamspeaks.
com.
Frank (53:29):
Well Farda.
The praise is for God.
Always.
We have moved one step closer todestination excellence.
Faridah (53:37):
Until next time, let us remain conscious of our creator
of the sacred relationship ofparent and child and of the
family ties that bind us allsubscribe to the podcast and
come back next time.
For a new episode of the familyties
Frank (53:52):
from Frank Abdul Shahid
Faridah (53:55):
and Farida Abdul Tawwab Brown.
Frank (53:58):
Peace, peace, be upon the family, the
Faridah (54:03):
family.
Peace be upon the family as we welcome you to another
experience of The Family Ties, aprescription for society.
I am your co host, Frank AbdulShahid.
Faridah (00:27):
And I am your co host, Farida Abdul Tawab Brown.
Before we get started, don'tforget to subscribe so you can
stay up to date and get all thelatest episodes.
Frank (00:36):
Welcome back, Farida, to a I'm feeling a wonderful
episode that we're about torecord tonight.
Want to know whether or not youare doing well and how are you?
Are you and your family?
Faridah (00:48):
Oh, we are doing wonderfully.
And I, too, am excited aboutthis episode.
We have a very special guest.
Yes.
And I Can't wait to hear fromhim to speak on some very
important topics at this momentin time.
Frank (01:00):
Yes.
Our special guests on ourpodcast, and we are very honored
to have him.
He is a father, a husband, abusinessman.
An author and a humanitarian, hewas appointed by Imam WD
Muhammad, who is the son of theHonorable Elijah Muhammad, the
former leader of the nation ofIslam as his representative and
(01:22):
a special assistant to hisministry.
In that role, he produced amedia publication known as
ocular magazine, focusing on theworks of Imam WD Muhammad's
ministry.
He was chiefly instrumental inarranging the historical
meeting.
Between Imam WD Muhammad andPope John Paul, the second at
(01:43):
the Vatican, he authored twobooks and in succeeding the
tradition of what Imam Muhammadhas established, he is the
leader of the Muslim Americanministry for human salvation.
I will say what the HonorableImam WD Muhammad has said about
him.
He says, and I quote the Imam, Ihave to acknowledge the man who
(02:04):
has done more than any otherperson to help me get the
correct picture of Muslims andImam WD Muhammad to the public
of America and to the world.
My son, Earl Abdul MalikMuhammad, I thank God for him.
Welcome Imam Earl Abdul MalikMuhammad and peace be upon you.
And welcome to our Family TiesPrescription for Society
(02:27):
episode.
Mohammed (02:28):
I'm honored to be with you.
Peace, peace be upon you and ourhonorable sister Farida and our
honorable audience.
Frank (02:38):
It's wonderful to have you brother Imam.
In this podcast, we've mentionedThe public in the introduction
of our honorable guest and theworks in the public we have
given special attention in thispodcast to how public behavior
and establishments shouldpresent itself as it serves the
collect collective interest ofhome, the place where the sacred
(03:02):
family ties and are born andnurtured.
In the home, so brother, you,ma'am, in this particular
podcast, we would like to askyou some very, I think, poignant
questions that our audience inthe world wants to know, want to
have ideas and want to have youropinion on how we should address
(03:24):
the issues that affect thesefamilies, the family ties.
You have written on theprinciple of binding and
engagement in your book,democracy, civil, civic virtue,
and Islam the Muslim Americanjihad against extremism.
This is a principle thatpromotes the construction of
bonds of trust, which I quote,presage.
(03:47):
And formation and solidificationof relationships, which are
intended to secure vital andcommon interest, serving the
support of the best conditionsfor human life in society, the
sacred family ties.
Can you can you speak on how thebonds of this relationship
builds and resurrects the modelcommunity?
Mohammed (04:10):
Yes, thank you.
The principle, uh, binding andengagement, um, comes from a
verse in the Qur'an and, uh, inparticular, uh, focuses a word,
a word in, uh, the Qur'an Uh,that means, uh, to tie together.
(04:38):
And um, uh, in the Muslim world,there's an organization called
Rabita, it's, um, known asMuslim world, Muslim world
league, um, in the circles ofdiplomatic, uh, activity in the
(05:05):
United Nations and, and, uh,world bodies, um, associated
with.
The interest to improve thecondition of man on the earth.
And so this, uh, uh,organization takes the name
Rabota, which is from a wordthat's in the Quran that
describes what, uh, what youhave quoted from the book, uh,
(05:28):
that, uh, we wrote some yearsago.
And um, it is just what, what,uh, what you quoted, um, a
principle.
that governs and encourages the,uh, necessary relationships that
(05:51):
must exist, um, cohesive bondsin structures of society that
must exist for, uh, to support,uh, and we might even say
protect or even guarantee theproper development in, in human
(06:14):
society, um, as God intended.
As God intended, uh, man, human,human beings, uh, will have a
picture of, uh, where emphasisshould be placed.
And they will be falling shortsometimes, you know, they'll be
making errors and, uh, the, uh,uh, guidance from God is a
(06:40):
correction and, uh, opportunityfor reaffirmation and, uh, uh,
redirection for the focus thathuman life should have, human
beings should have andleadership, um, human community
leadership should have.
So this is, um, uh, a vitalconcern, and it's a, it's a, it
(07:06):
has been, and it was, a strategyof, uh, Imam W.
Deen Muhammad.
He gave it to me, he, he, heintroduced it to me, um, as a,
as a, uh, major concern, butalso a strategy.
In other words, it should be astrategy.
It should be something we'reworking for, um, on a constant
(07:27):
basis.
Uh, but it's a principle that,um, kind of, uh, introduces and
defines our interests.
as a Muslim body or Muslimcommunity in America.
So the Muslim community inAmerica should not be perceiving
itself as isolated from thegeneral condition of the
(07:50):
society.
If the Muslim community is doingwell, then, uh, whatever is
serving is good health and gooddevelopment.
It should want to share thatwith the, General membership,
uh, and leadership in, in thesociety, even if it be non
Muslim.
(08:11):
Yes.
And in this case, in that case,in our case in America, we are a
minority, a small minority ascompared to the general
population of the citizens ofAmerica.
The Muslim population is aminority.
So, um, our interest is ageneral interest.
(08:33):
That all people, all Muslimsshould have, but it's also a,
um, uh, common interest, um, andit's, uh, an interest that we
have.
Uh, that is a strategy tointroduce our life and what we
(08:55):
have as influences for successin our life, um, into the
general society.
Frank (09:03):
Yes, sir.
So, you know, as we, to supportwhat you have said, what we have
done on this podcast is to wantto strongly.
Urge and strongly reinforcethose bonds and what the bonds
have written in them to to drivethese relationships to have the
best possible life for all ofhumanity these, these sacred
(09:26):
bonds.
And we.
I have stressed how much thefamily starts that process of
welcoming to society, what isrole and responsibility should
be to direct itself and tosupport what the family life has
brought into itself.
So thank you, brother, man, forthat.
Farida, do you have any followup for that?
Faridah (09:46):
I do.
Thank you so much again forjoining us on the program.
So you, you mentioned thebinding and engagement and you
spoke about this being astrategy for engaging the
society.
And when I hear those two words,binding and engagement, they
bring many things to mind.
But one of which is the when youlook at the the primary elements
of a family unit.
(10:07):
And you look at the, the, themother or the female principle
in, in the family and the fatherand the male principle in the
family, the binding could almostseems to me to relate to the,
the nurturing element, whatholds the family together, that
love and nurturing and clearkind of mother wit and common
sense that holds the family unitand the engagement speaks to the
(10:31):
leadership.
The aspect of leadership in thefamily, which speaks to the
father's role or the male rolein the family.
And then of course, this podcastpointing us to the family as a
prescription allows us to seethis as, as a platform or
foundation upon which the restof society is built.
built.
So going back again to thatbinding and engagement that that
(10:53):
those complimentary roles thatare modeled first in the family
unit and that we then find inincreasing levels and more
increasingly sophisticatedlevels with greater
responsibility.
Can you speak to a little bit toadvice that you have on how
families can resist the powerfulmovements in society that are
(11:14):
designed to weaken families?
So you know, just looking atthose two ideas and, and how
they first begin within the wombof the family, but they are
built upon in larger society.
And we see that there are, arereally powerful movements.
That are designed to weakenthem.
What advice do you have for ourlisteners on how we might begin
combating those?
Mohammed (11:36):
If we look at, uh, the, uh, and, and God, he
focuses our attention, um, onthe development of life, human
life, and, uh, the stages ofhuman life and, um, uh, every
(11:59):
stage, uh, and the processitself is to bring about.
a, uh, structure, which is ahuman life as a structure.
And, um, uh, it is to, um, existin recognition of the
(12:31):
development, Of similar or, um,complimenting human life.
In other words, this processthat is described in scripture,
in the Qur'an in particular, isheld in common.
(12:55):
It is something that is a sharedprocess.
And all human life, um,experiences, uh, this as
necessary for development.
That suggests cooperation thatsuggests common recognition and,
(13:20):
uh, the necessary, uh,prerequisite for the, um,
initial development of life isthe bonding of like individuals.
(13:44):
but also, uh, dissimilar.
They are like, but dissimilar.
The bonding of male and female.
They're human, not the same.
ALL (14:03):
Okay.
Mohammed (14:03):
And, um, uh, the finding of the common area is
the prerequisite for thedevelopment of the healthy, uh,
offspring.
There has to be a compromise.
(14:24):
It has to be an accommodation,um, uh, and you might, it might,
you might look at it and say,well, the male is the dominant.
Not necessarily, not necessarilyin some instances, and it could
be interpreted that way, but notnecessarily, um, or you could
(14:49):
say the male, the female is therecessive.
Not necessarily, notnecessarily.
The way that, uh, Scripturepresents it.
Is that there arecharacteristics that may have
female gender, but are seen inboth males and females.
(15:12):
Yes.
There are characteristics thatmay have male gender, but they
are acknowledged in males andfemales.
So, the Quran says, for example,the term that is used to
describe a male, for example, Isgiven in the Quran as also, uh,
(15:38):
a, um, uh, a characteristic ora, um, description of a certain
kind of female.
So, so that says that the termthat's used for male is not just
speaking of, um, uh, a man or amale, uh, fizzy physiologically,
but it's talking about an urgethat can be described.
(16:00):
Okay.
Or is characterized in as male.
Um, but it's not just.
A property of males.
So the term itself, just to be,you know, I know some people
they listen and they wanttechnical, technical things, you
know?
Frank (16:14):
Yes, sir.
Mohammed (16:15):
So the term is kar uh, but, uh, the Quran says that
which is female, feminine,feminine, so it says, it means
it, it, it, it, it, it, it, itprovides a richness to the
understanding of the word.
So it, it doesn't mean.
Uh, a male or a man, it means athinking human that is both male
(16:40):
and female, female.
So, um, uh, in these processesis the necessary, um, uh, or, or
is a description of the bonding.
Uh, and then you have, um, whatis developed, what comes from
(17:02):
the bonding and what comes fromthe bonding is a healthy human.
a healthy human condition, um,that goes through the stages of
development.
And in those stages ofdevelopment are also instructive
lessons about the constructionor the proper construction or
healthy construction of humansociety.
(17:24):
So, um, uh, human society cannotexist in the way that God
intended, which Um, speaks tothe success of human existence,
um, without the, uh, healthyfunction of like, but dissimilar
(17:50):
entities, they must find area ofaccommodation and compromise.
And in that finding, or that isthe necessary movement in those
like, but dissimilar entities,For the construction or the
(18:11):
beginning processes of theconstruction of a healthy human
condition.
So we don't expect that, um,all, all the circumstances in
society are going to favor onegroup that is always going to be
a like situation.
There are also dissimilarsituations that must be
(18:34):
addressed, and human life hasbeen constructed in a way to
accommodate and compromise forthose interests.
And um, uh, to the, to theextent that we, um, appreciate
that as a process.
We can see the necessity for,for example, for female coming
(19:01):
into high political offices.
Mm.
If we follow this logic, if wefollow this logic, we can see
the necessity for, uh, a varietyof ethnic groups.
rising in influence.
We can see the necessity forthat because we have likeness
but dissimilarity at the sametime operating in the interest
(19:25):
to strengthen, uh, human societyand human condition.
Faridah (19:30):
Wow.
That, that was A really helpfulexposition of that idea,
particularly in this immediatepolitical moment in which we
exist, where so many parties andgroups in our society are
fighting to be recognized and totake no prisoners.
They want all or nothing at thesame time.
And what you're speaking, thesewords of accommodation and, and
(19:52):
these types of words are lookedat disfavorably or unfavorably
in today's political climate.
And so I, I appreciate thatconversation and I just like
Frank, if you, if you don't mindme moving on to this other
question I think is, is veryimportant here.
And I, it speaks to our civicresponsibility in this
particular moment.
(20:13):
And so I would like to know howcan people of conscience, you
know, members of an ethicalarmy, if you will, you know,
this is a term that you havebegun to, to share with us and
how will they operate within thepower structure of a country
like America.
with particular attention paidto this idea of accommodation
(20:33):
and not always having everythingyou want in a particular moment.
But how might the people ofconscience operate within this
specific political context?
Mohammed (20:44):
There's no doubt that the founders of America Had the
focus on a human type and, um,they wanted that America be in
support of the best possibledevelopment of that type.
(21:11):
The type that they saw, uh, uh,hope that, uh, America would be
America as a society wouldaccommodate is the type that's
focused in scripture.
And, um, uh, they struggled, um,because of their own social and,
(21:40):
uh, ethnic experiences, theystruggled, um, uh, in this
process.
Um, and that's what is meant bythe accommodation that they made
for that struggle.
That is what is meant in theirlanguage by the terminology or
phrasing more perfect union.
They knew it was a struggle isnot going to be easy because you
(22:04):
have, um, uh, homogenoussocieties competing for power on
the earth in the name of theirhomogenous interests.
But America, uh, founders Theywanted, they made it known that
they searched the earth forprinciples.
(22:28):
Uh uh, they put it in theirsymbolism, they put it in their
iconography.
They put it in their language,uh, straight a language to
define, um, their wanting to beacknowledged.
As a people distinguished fromEngland, they said that a man.
(22:51):
is created equal.
So all right, right, right,right there.
They're acknowledging that thereare inequalities and those
inequalities are characterizedin different categories.
But they're saying that in spiteof these categories, humans the
(23:15):
focus on this of this society ison the common human type that it
is Endowed by its creator thatit has been fashioned It has
been designed which suggests ithas purpose that it has been
endowed by its creator to havean appetite to Recognize that it
(23:44):
should be respected.
It should be respected so thatmeans that the society must hold
it up the society itself mustexist to hold it up and That Uh,
that entity should alsocontribute to conditions to hold
up that life or to promote thatlife, to promote that picture.
(24:09):
So, um, the holy book of Muslimssays.
That God created a picture for,uh, human life and that from
that picture, he created manypictures.
(24:31):
Mm.
Yes, sir.
And he says, uh, God says in theQuran that the many pictures, he
created them all beautiful andexcellent.
Um, so what America in this, uh,struggle presents is.
(25:02):
An attempt to focus the commonpicture with the support of the
many pictures, and it's astruggle.
And, uh, uh, in, in, in someperiods of Americans, his
America's history, uh, it has,uh, failed miserably in, um,
(25:26):
acknowledging the degree ofrespect that it should have for
the many pictures.
Um, and in other, in othermoments in America's history, it
has triumphed.
in its picture, in its embrace.
The struggle of it is the, the,um, uh, concern of every nation
(25:49):
on this earth.
Every society on this earthfocuses America as the sacred
discussion on what is thecorrect picture of human life
and how it should be supported.
So the ethical army As I havementioned, used that term, uh,
(26:12):
in repeating, uh, the, uh, uh,creation of that term.
I don't know that he would saythat he created the term, but
certainly he used the term anddefined it for us.
And that's Imam WD Muhammad, thelate leader of our community,
late leader of Muslims inAmerica.
The son of the honorable ElijahMuhammad, uh, he's the one that
(26:33):
used that term and made it knownand taught the meaning of it to
us and to me.
And um, it refers to, uh, apopulation that is not defined
necessarily by a religiousidentity.
or any particular ethnicidentity or racial identity, but
(26:54):
is defined by, um, the evolutionin thinking from a basic
morality to respect human lifeto a sophisticated, uh,
appreciation for the value ofdiversity, uh, and to, uh, uh,
lock arms, stand in ranks, uh,as, uh, soldiers.
(27:22):
Uh, in the cause of everythingthat supports what is necessary
to advance society, even if itmeans to, um, condemn or to, uh,
(27:42):
punish a moment in history wherethe best possible conditions are
being neglected and support fromthe leadership to advance those
conditions is being abandoned.
Yes.
That they are prepared to standeven, uh, in a time that, um,
(28:04):
like a war, uh, difficult, uh,and, and, um, um, soul stirring,
uh, and, uh, not desiredcondition.
War is not a desired condition,but they're ethical.
The army is, is prepared todefend the most important and
(28:29):
sacred interests on behalf ofthe vision for Human life in its
establishment in the picturethat the founders had that
complies with what God hasestablished as truth about the
destiny of human society.
Frank (28:48):
Yes, sir.
And we say the praises for God.
Absolutely.
And you mentioned leadership inthis in your answer and war.
Oftentimes is a comp commentaryon leadership.
You know, we see war often asincursion.
We see war as shocking.
The senses of the public isoften a denial of peace and
(29:08):
prosperity.
And it more than anything elsetests the bonds of trust amongst
the people.
So as we see in the, currentlyin the world now how the world
is basically a a tinderbox ofthe possibility of a complete
explosion and just completelydestabilization of the human
family throughout the world.
(29:29):
You know, young people, peopleof faith have been the vanguard
of the movement to callattention to the oppression and
destruction facing populationsaround the world.
You know, what should people ofconscience who are troubled by
death and destruction.
Of the Palestinian peoplespecifically, but people
suffering all throughout theworld consider when evaluating
(29:50):
presidential candidates giventhe treaty obligation of the
United States of America.
You know, how should they seetheir involvement in, in
addressing those issues?
Mohammed (30:03):
Like many, like many issues, uh, it said one, it said
in one frame, very complicated,very complex.
Uh, very detailed and then inanother frame, very simple, very
straightforward, um, dependingon who's presenting the argument
(30:26):
or what side of the argument isbeing presented.
Um, in my mind, in my mind, andI'm in, uh, uh, supported in
this understanding from Islamicsentiments.
(30:47):
Uh, and I'm sure that theChristian, uh, listeners of your
program, they would, uh, accept,uh, that they wouldn't want to
see, nor would we want, norwould Muslims want to see a
Christian population, uh, beingmistreated.
We wouldn't want to seeChristians neglect them, neglect
(31:10):
the Christian population that'sbeing mistreated.
So Muslims, uh, we have strong.
Uh, social bonds, and we don'twant to see Muslim populations
mistreated.
That's one area, uh, from whereI'm coming from in terms of
focusing attention on thestruggle of the Palestinian
(31:34):
people, but, uh, in my embraceof the Palestinian struggle as a
Muslim.
And identifying the majority ofthe Palestinian people as
Muslims.
I'm also aware that there's aminority of Palestinians that
are Christians.
Frank (31:53):
Yes, sir.
Mohammed (31:55):
Okay, that transcends Muslim identity.
All right.
Um, I'm also aware that, uh,the, there is a difference in
character of The Israeligovernment that has, uh, war
(32:25):
machine tendencies andmentality, that there's a
difference in character betweenthat government and its people.
And that that government is notnecessarily representing the,
(32:46):
uh, general interests of theIsraeli people.
Frank (32:53):
Yes, sir.
Mohammed (32:55):
Okay.
So when I look at the situationthere, I'm not seeing it only as
an issue with regard to Muslimsor even Palestinians In fact
that may not be the mostcompelling Reason for our
(33:25):
attention the most compellingreason for our attention is the
That this is a human communityand the, uh, the reminder that
we have as Muslims is themeaning of the sacred places,
(33:46):
uh, that are associated with thePalestinian people and the
Jewish people and the Christianpeople in Jerusalem, the whole
world in terms of, uh, thefollowing of these great
religions have as a focus, thatarea of the world is the focus
on some structure of.
(34:09):
Of of stone and and mortarbuildings.
No, those buildings have nomeaning whatsoever.
The the the focus is onsomething existing in the
constitution of human life thatgets our attention.
Frank (34:31):
Yes,
Mohammed (34:32):
sir.
That's what gets our attentionthere.
The some some of the greatleaders and teachers of the
moral interests that isnecessary, uplift and progress
human society is, uh, isassociated with that geography.
(34:52):
So those buildings, uh, have,have, uh, very little
importance, but the human lifehas, um, primary importance and
concern.
And so it represents for us, anopportunity to address the
(35:13):
condition of human life on thisearth.
So the Palestinian issue is, um,in value the same as the issue
of the, uh, people of, uh, SouthSudan, uh, that have been
(35:37):
victimized the, uh, people of,uh, Myanmar.
Yes.
that have been victimized, thepeople of, um, the Congo that
have been victimized.
But, uh, even, even, even theassault upon the, the, um,
(35:59):
Ukrainians, um, in the focus of,of the, the, the global society,
what we are seeing is attentionon the Palestinian struggle.
The Palestinian struggle is notseparated in importance.
(36:22):
Uh, from all of these otherstruggles because fundamentally
we're talking about neglect and,uh, um, ritualized attempts to
separate human communities.
from what God intended for themto be enriched by.
(36:46):
That's what we are seeing.
And so we focus the attention onthe Palestinian, but it's, it's
commentary on, on the conditionof man in an oppressed state by
oppressors that want to separatehuman life from what God
entitled it to have.
Everything God created, he gaveto the human family, not one
(37:08):
group within the human family.
All of us.
are to have access to all thebenefits that God created.
And certainly we have toqualify.
to use those resources.
We have to respect the scienceof those resources.
But just because a community isnot as far along as another one
(37:32):
in understanding the proper usesof resources doesn't justify
their mistreatment.
In fact, if one group had isfurther along the road in terms
of understanding of howresources should be used, Their
obligation as members in thehuman family is to invite that
(37:53):
group that has not evolved asfar to share in responsibility
and to grow in understanding ofhow to appreciate this process.
That's the obligation that weshould have.
And the rest of the worldwitnessing these things promote
and support that process.
Yes, sir.
Absolutely.
Faridah (38:12):
So I actually have a follow up to that if you don't
mind.
And that is given the Theprinciple of the ethical army
how they operate when it may bethe case that leadership has
abandoned these principles ofpromotion of human dignity.
And then we wed that in theinterest particularly of the
(38:33):
2024 presidential election.
What would you what advice mightyou have in terms of What
strategy to pursue for people ofconscious conscience for members
of this ethical army, Muslims,Christians, Jews, people of good
faith who are concerned abouthuman dignity and fighting
(38:53):
oppression.
What would you say in terms ofhow we best operate when it
seems as if leadership hasabandoned those principles when
we have treaty obligations inplace, let's say with the a
state that is currentlyfunctioning in Israel you know,
as a war machine, how do we bestmaneuver to get an outcome that
(39:15):
might be helpful?
And I say that in lightparticularly of this election,
we have one candidate who ispromoting policies that seem to
be very authoritarian in nature,and they may in fact
destabilize.
our society in, in a manner thatwe won't have space to maneuver
and critique and boycott and,and take other actions.
(39:39):
And then you have that pittedagainst another candidate who,
you know, speaks about justice,but for some people looking at
this through the lens of notjust emotion, but of, of genuine
concern for humanity, they'reseeing, well, I don't see that
this person is that different.
Could you give us some insight?
scriptural insight on how peopleof conscience might navigate
(40:02):
this choice and, and maybe notsecure an outcome, but put the
best effort forward to, to beable to work toward that common
good.
Mohammed (40:15):
Yeah, you know, um, there's never been a time in
human society, in the history ofhuman society, where all the
conditions favor this necessaryor this, um, the desired
progress.
All the conditions never favorthe desired progress.
Yeah.
Um, There's always strugglebecause this is not heaven.
(40:40):
This is the world.
This is earth.
Faridah (40:42):
And,
Mohammed (40:43):
um, the nature of human life is struggle.
Even the way that, uh, humanlife comes into the world.
Um, and we described the beautyof the, the, uh, process, the
bonding of the similar or thelike and dissimilar who have
(41:04):
reconciled differences.
Um, symbolically reconcileddifferences in order to bring
about that new life, even, evenupon that triumph, which, you
know, the, the relationshipbetween male and female coming
together to produce that newlife, even in that triumph,
(41:24):
still the new life that comesafter that beautiful
development.
In the process of it coming intothe world, it struggles and it
struggles to such an extent thatits own life is at risk and the
mother's life is at risk.
(41:46):
So, um, what is the, what, whatis, uh, to be understood from
this?
Obviously, this is what Godintended.
We come into our existence ashuman beings, um, with attention
on the necessity of struggle,difficulty.
(42:07):
And, um, uh, that, uh, what weachieve is valued because it has
been earned.
One great leader, uh, from theAfrican American people, uh, Dr.
Martin Luther King, he said thatAmerica, and he was speaking not
(42:32):
necessarily of the people, butof the leadership, need, needed
a reevaluation and reformationof values.
Yes.
Yes.
Um, I think that that's true inevery age.
That's true in every age and,uh, every, um, uh, period of
(42:55):
change and leadership insociety.
And, uh, um, the, the parents ofthe new, the new life that comes
into the world, uh, theycooperate with one another in
spite of their dissimilarity andintroduce as a support for that
(43:21):
new life.
A set of values and, um, uh, thevalues that they introduced that
new life to may be differentfrom the values that the next
door neighbor has introducedtheir new life to.
They insist on it.
They don't sit there.
They insist on it to the extentthat they dress their new child
(43:45):
in those values.
They clothes their new child inthose values.
And, um, that new child istaught to stand in, in, uh, um,
in, um, recognition.
of those values.
So, you know, such is themovement in, uh, human
(44:09):
communities when we are facedwith, uh, existential,
existential threats.
Um, we have to believe in, uh,the, the, uh, interest of God in
human society and his favoringof those, those, uh, that
(44:31):
representation, um, advocatesand stands for the principles
and values.
That he has established for manto grow upon.
So what choice do we have exceptthat we identify those values,
that we stand for those values,that we promote those values,
(44:53):
that we argue the necessity toembrace those values, uh, even
in the face of powerful leadersand, um, uh, be prepared to
lose, um, uh, lose the stand orlose the, uh, uh, uh, in the
(45:16):
altercation or lose in thebattle.
Be prepared.
Stand with such, um, support anddignity and commitment that it
influence others who arewitnessing that stand and they
stand and are turned and, and,and they themselves have a
revolution or reformation oftheir own values and that they
(45:39):
change in favor of what isproper.
So, yeah, even when societylooks bleak, if you have one
entity, it could be anindividual or it could be an
individual group that stands forwhat right, what is right.
(46:01):
Eventually, society will conformto what is right.
And that has been the history ofhuman society.
Tyrants.
And despots have, have, havecome into power for a brief
time, but eventually they'reovercome by good.
(46:22):
Their rule is limited andrelatively speaking, very brief.
And in some cases, When theycome into power, uh, it
galvanizes that movement to, to,uh, review and to re evaluate
and to, uh, revolution, uh, uh,uh, overturn lesser values for
(46:49):
what is greater in the interestsof the people.
The progress of human life orthe progress of, um, uh, the
human condition, the improvementof the human condition.
So I, I don't, you know, Americain the way that it has been
established, uh, in spite of,uh, its troubles in various
(47:09):
periods, uh, I never lose hope.
That America will come to theright conclusion because America
has been established uponrecognition of that human person
and, um, God, uh, will supportand favor.
And what I mean by that, Godwill support and favor the
people of God who know what thatpicture is.
(47:34):
They will never stop working inthe interest to serve the
picture that God wants for humansociety and Therefore they will
never be defeated There alwaysbe a powerful influence Yes, sir
Frank (47:53):
And as we are hearing in Farada's background the call the
call to purpose the call toobedience the call to
responsibility for our Yousacredness of the human
individual and that humanindividuals picture in the
collective state of what humanand mankind was created for for
(48:14):
good leadership and goodestablishments.
Absolutely.
Faridah (48:19):
Yeah.
And if I might just add, I wantto slip in a tiny little
question.
I'm not sure you'll have achance to answer it, but you did
mention briefly in the in anearlier response you mentioned
foregrounding or putting intothe public picture the, the
female leadership.
And of course we can read thatas, you know, current candidacy.
(48:40):
We have two candidates runningfor the office of president.
Who are women, but there alsoseem to be some issues at play
in the society that sometimespeople of faith tend to see in a
black and white way.
And I think that you might offerus some insight into how people
of conscience might look at thequestion of, of What, what is
(49:02):
happening in a society and whatis reflected when we look at
female leadership and theability of women to make good
decisions for not forthemselves, but for the well
being of the entire family andultimately of the society.
Mohammed (49:18):
Well, I'll tell you.
I put it like this.
I don't, I hope that I don'toffend anyone in our honorable
audience.
Um, that's not my intent, but,um, how many white males have we
had president of the UnitedStates?
(49:40):
I don't know what the number is,but it's the vast majority.
Okay.
It is an overwhelming majority.
Only one time it wasn't a whitemale.
Faridah (49:47):
Yeah.
Mohammed (49:48):
So, so I think that, um, and how many females.
None.
So, you know, um, uh, commonsense would say that if the
population of the society ismade up of various persons with
different experiences, that atsome point they would rise, uh,
(50:09):
to become persons in thatpopulation who are other than
the majority would rise tobecome qualified To address the
needs of the society and, um,that if the society has found
itself to be troubled, that, uh,uh, common sense would say,
(50:32):
let's look at somethingdifferent.
Let's, uh, let's, let'saccommodate and make an, let's,
let's, uh, open our minds toaccommodate something different
and, um, Uh, perhaps, uh, uh,Ms.
Harris, the vice president,maybe she has thinking that, uh,
(50:53):
is similar to those thatpreceded her, you know, but, um,
she certainly comes frominfluences.
That are sharply different fromthe leaders, uh, those who have
been in that office thatpreceded her.
She comes from influences thatare sharply different.
So um, uh, common sense justsays to me that in
(51:20):
representation of thecontribution that women, um, are
guaranteed as citizens of theAmerican society to make.
In the public office and also,uh, the, uh, opportunity that is
given to all different ethnicgroups in America to make their
(51:43):
contribution that she is the,uh, uh, the, um, intersection of
those interests.
And, um, for that reason byitself, she should be given not
just consideration, but support.
Faridah (52:01):
Well, that seems to be as much as we would like to
extend this interview and thisconversation beyond the the
boundaries of, of the time thatwe have.
We would love to invite youback, Imam Abdul Malik Mohammed.
It has been a pleasure.
It has been enlightening.
We thank you for joining us onthe program.
And we pray that you would findit in your time to, to come back
(52:24):
and join us again.
Thank you.
Mohammed (52:26):
It'd be my great pleasure.
I'm happy to, to join you onthis program and I pray for the
success, continued success ofyour, your program.
Faridah (52:39):
Thank you.
So for our listeners, our guestImam Earl Abdul Malik Mohammed
is the author of two books,Democracy, Civic Virtue and
Islam, the Muslim American JihadAgainst Extremism and On Nature
and Nations.
The Muslim American Message forHumanity in the Day of Religion.
Both books can be purchased atwww.
(53:00):
elamineprioritydistributors.
com.
That's E L A M I Nprioritydistributors.
com.
You can learn more about hiswork for the promotion of human
dignity at www.
muslimamericanministry.
com.
And finally, you can also findmore of his commentary at www.
(53:24):
eamspeaks.
com.
Frank (53:29):
Well Farda.
The praise is for God.
Always.
We have moved one step closer todestination excellence.
Faridah (53:37):
Until next time, let us remain conscious of our creator
of the sacred relationship ofparent and child and of the
family ties that bind us allsubscribe to the podcast and
come back next time.
For a new episode of the familyties
Frank (53:52):
from Frank Abdul Shahid
Faridah (53:55):
and Farida Abdul Tawwab Brown.
Frank (53:58):
Peace, peace, be upon the family, the
Faridah (54:03):
family.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.